Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Toby Hadoke about his choice of Dr Who & the Silurians (7/7)

Transcript

Talks to Toby Hadoke about his choice of Dr Who & the Silurians (7/7) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:40
Welcome to a hamster with a blunt penknife which is actually
0:44
a podcast that I Toby. Hey, Doc was doing Millennia
0:47
ago. And then I woke up and found out
0:49
that this other guy called Joe was doing a podcast called a
0:54
hamster with a blunt penknife. And it's my podcast.
0:58
I was here before Joe, not really, but that would be a
1:00
thorny model conundrum and I'm sure they'll be similar thorny
1:04
moral conundrums as Joe, and I negotiate our way through
1:08
episode 7 of Doctor. And the silurians.
1:11
Hello. Joe.
1:12
Welcome to your podcast. Thank you very much.
1:16
I've got to say that I did try. You know, when I first started
1:20
having star I did two stories where I did the commentaries on
1:25
my own and may I say I salute you sir being able to have done
1:31
as many episodes as you have because I found that exhausting,
1:35
I don't like it about myself that I can.
1:40
Awk at such length, without sort of needing anybody else.
1:47
It's, I'm dubious about that. I and I have to say, do you know
1:52
what the pilot has such a thing which will never be heard?
1:56
I totally forgot about this. Do you know what the original
1:58
idea for the commentaries was going to be?
2:01
Was I was gonna do them with my dog?
2:05
I have a lovely dog called Bernhard and what I was doing, I
2:08
would sort of do it, right? We go.
2:10
We die did the protons as the first one I just said and it's
2:12
sort of like oh, who's that actor?
2:14
Dad. I go.
2:15
Yeah, well, you see this actor is James and so I would have it
2:20
as a sort of do a log but where I would play both Bernhard and
2:25
myself and I found as with a lot of things.
2:28
As with most set my doctor who scalp which started off as a
2:31
very convoluted thing with jokes that work backwards and all that
2:34
sort of thing. Actually, if you strip away all
2:37
the Clever clever stuff. I just get to the heart of it,
2:41
which might, you know, my friend who directed my said just get
2:43
to, you know, the joy of you know, what doctor who brings to
2:46
your personal life in your relationships and all of that
2:49
the same with the commentary, you know, let the joy in the
2:52
enthusiasm shine through. You don't need to pretend to be
2:55
talking with your dog much as I love my dog and much as I think
2:59
I could have made a cult figure of him.
3:00
It, you know it was it was labored and it was hot and it
3:03
and it and it stopped me. It kind of put the brakes on
3:06
because I was thinking about The dog and me and I was filming it
3:10
as well. So I was also having to stop the
3:12
dog from moving that, you know, it was a barrier to what you
3:18
need, which is sort of fluidity. And I mean, I say too much, I
3:23
know there are people who do things properly, who would
3:26
probably go through and get rid of all of their arms and ours.
3:29
Well, I'm afraid I'm not listening knife is I expect
3:33
people to listen to my podcast but I don't expect me to be one
3:35
of them. There's no way I'm going to go
3:37
through. Chopping out my arms at ours.
3:39
I don't do them in there in the other to the scripted ones, you
3:42
know, which are, which are red and perform.
3:45
So hopefully much more sort of fluid and articulate that and
3:50
and articulated. But for the commentaries I had
3:52
to do something that was, you know, it's unrehearsed.
3:55
I haven't, I haven't done any research beforehand, it's just
3:59
what it's just, what you get, you get the unfiltered.
4:02
This is what I do and this is what I think and, and maybe
4:04
sometimes and this is what has happened to me today or in the
4:07
World of Doctor Who today or what was happening.
4:09
When I watch this particular episode and that's kind of the
4:13
formula that was in knots, that the one's personal life, informs
4:18
so, much of one's enjoyment of Doctor, Who, and I think we can
4:21
all I do. I hope we can all identify that.
4:23
Even if we haven't all had the same experiences, we know that
4:27
there's a story we watched when I Granddad died, for example.
4:29
Well, we know there's a story that we've, we've watched to get
4:32
us over a broken heart or we know, I know there's a story
4:35
that I watched in black and white when there was Roaring
4:38
fire and I got warm Rosy Cheeks. It was Doctor Who in the
4:40
silurians. So part of me when I'm watching
4:42
this goes, this should be a black and white and I should be
4:44
by an open fire with me. Rosie cheeks, you know, so I
4:49
can't remember what the first thing you said was, but I've
4:52
clearly just given you a ten minute monologue which so, oh,
4:55
it was that it was how I managed to do it on my own.
4:58
That's how because I never shut up.
5:01
I don't like it Joe, actually, it makes me cringe, but I have
5:05
to keep talking because otherwise, I'd think about how
5:07
much I hate. Myself.
5:08
Well, we have a star obviously that's always with somebody
5:11
else. So it's to The Listener.
5:14
It's like listening in on two mates, having a conversation and
5:18
that sun, but with happy times and places, I like the intimacy
5:22
of it's like you're talking to me.
5:25
And I asked what I really like about that, is it just feels
5:28
like a I'm listening to you. You know.
5:32
Well that's very good. It's actually sort of came from
5:34
practical necessity because obviously I do have guests but I
5:36
get them to send in that because I always feel a bit bad asking
5:39
people. So this the way of doing it was
5:42
to say, well, you can record your stuff in your own time and
5:44
you can send it audio or video or both whatever you like and
5:47
you could do it however, you like and then there's no
5:50
pressure, there's no, you know, there's no, there's no right or
5:53
wrong way of doing it. And it means they can do it
5:54
whenever they like I can then use it whenever I like we don't
5:58
have to fit in at the same time. Make an appointment bloody blah
6:01
so it was all it was all to make it as low maintenance as
6:05
possible and for me to be as as little a burden on the person, I
6:09
was expecting to help me out as possible.
6:12
So it was, it was sort of born from practicality, really?
6:15
I'm gobsmacked that anybody listens to it, but I'm very
6:18
pleased that at the, the people who do who sends, you know, nice
6:23
and interesting feedback. And and the number of people
6:27
that do that, I have to say baffles but flatters me.
6:30
I'm it's very nice. Well, I'm addicted.
6:37
I mean I've listened to you when I listen to hamster and I when I
6:40
walk around the park with my dog, I'm always sad.
6:43
If there isn't an episode to listen to because they don't
6:44
have to listen to some political podcast with some lore.
6:50
Well, I think we're stretched out as he goes enough now, all
6:52
right. For the salaries.
6:58
Shall we go into right? Well, I have to I have to get my
7:01
I've got my. Would you believe?
7:02
I've got my remote control on my telephone.
7:05
Would you believe you can do that these days?
7:06
Joe with a task covers, mamluk whitsitt?
7:10
Yes, this is about the third, the third, one of these I've had
7:15
and this literally, this one came in the post today because
7:18
the other one had sort of Fallen to bits.
7:20
So yes, I am now on, hang on. About turning burn it into a
7:26
cult figure. Oh, I love those pictures that
7:30
you put out to Patriots. I think that she achieved that,
7:35
that was, I mean, that was because yes, on my patreon page.
7:38
I put something out on Monday, Wednesday and Friday.
7:42
And then I thought, well, just on Tuesday, I'll stick a picture
7:44
of the dog and they actually, I looked at the, you know, you get
7:50
the insights that they call it on the thing.
7:52
And sometimes, more, people could take some Take kindly to
7:57
me, they still wait for the stuff to come out on iTunes.
7:59
They did, you know, they're being patrons just because
8:01
they're nice. And that's the model that seems
8:03
to work and I'm not I'm not talking to delay.
8:07
I'm actually talking because my internet seems to be playing up
8:10
in his not loading up the episode but but more.
8:14
But if I put X if I put what I put the picture of burn it up
8:17
that that sometimes gets more downloads and Views than that
8:22
than a podcast. I've painstakingly put together.
8:25
I suppose it only takes a second to look at a business animals as
8:28
how you are. They'll always stole the
8:29
Limelight. So let's get going.
8:33
Then in five, four, three, two, one.
8:39
And I want to hit you with a question from Jack coil.
8:42
Who says it's a nice contrast that for a predominately
8:46
Earthbound era. The Third Doctor is one of the
8:49
nicest doctors towards aliens. Hmm.
8:53
Do you think the first and second doctor would be more
8:55
belligerent in favor of the humans?
8:59
It's funny isn't it? We sort of accept and reject.
9:01
We cherry pick our Doctor, Who morality always amuses me when
9:05
people sort of today's art you know I think of Doctor Who is a
9:08
very liberal show because I am an anti-racist anti-homophobia,
9:13
everybody should be treated the same woolly bloody liberal.
9:19
And so of course I take I interpret Doctor Who in that way
9:24
but you cannot deny that talk to that's largely blow up.
9:28
Oh, up things that are a different color and, you know,
9:33
the macro Terror, you know, he doesn't think hang on the crabs
9:36
used to live here. It's the human too and you know,
9:39
it just goes there, crabs. Blow them up over heat rounds,
9:42
the worse for it. I know he gets away with murder
9:45
because he Capers about like a boy.
9:48
But yeah, I mean seeds of death with that the locals but I mean
9:54
I also find that quite interested.
9:56
I'm, I'm interested in The hypocrisy of liberalism I'm
10:00
aware that I can afford my liberalism because I never
10:03
really have to put it to the test, which is why I give quite
10:08
short shrift to, you know, very possibly enunciated liberalism
10:14
of the kind that we see often replacing discourse.
10:17
These days when you sort of think what?
10:19
It's all very well that you say that.
10:22
But actually, there are, there are hypocrisies within within
10:28
You know, that even the liberalism of Doctor Who because
10:32
it's essentially he has to, he has to kill.
10:34
He has to kill people do this by the way, private Upton doesn't
10:37
get credited and that's because it's Simon Kane.
10:40
Who plays one of the silurians and he's curly in in the episode
10:45
episode 1 of an enemy of the world's.
10:46
Well, but I used to always used to be furious.
10:48
Go hang on the speaking part here and he doesn't get a credit
10:51
and I needed to know who that actor was when I found out was
10:54
our. Okay?
10:54
That's fair enough. He gets the credit as the
10:56
silurians but as an actor I'd be going can I Not be credited as
10:59
the man. But clearly, they looked in the
11:03
scripture when there's this part we could actually get one of the
11:05
other guys to do it. And obviously you're going to
11:07
want to get your face C but and he gets a name but it doesn't
11:11
get a credit. And then this Corporal nothing
11:14
in this who tells get a credit even though all of his lines
11:16
have been cut and he's just like a sort of support.
11:18
Anyway that's only the sort of thing that interests me.
11:21
I love it that it don't force. The the liberalism thing I find
11:26
very interesting because Cuz I have obviously cast Doctor Who
11:30
as a show that is about understanding aided, Darrow is
11:34
as cool as fuck here. Sorry, I don't, I swear but the
11:37
way he gets, he notices. Something is wrong.
11:39
He gets his gun out, it looks around.
11:40
This is, you know, Avon calling, he's pretty well.
11:46
And again, he doesn't die in the book.
11:48
I don't think so. I was very, very surprised when
11:50
he gets killed in a bit. But anyway, right.
11:53
Yes. So the Liberty.
11:55
Yes, it's it's so it. So amuses me when people, you
11:59
know, when somebody says something that people don't
12:01
agree with, they go have they not learned from the lessons of
12:05
the show that they love and you go.
12:07
Whoa, well, I mean, you've already got the other two can
12:10
take lots of different lessons reduc to if you, if you really
12:13
want to, and I think the main one is don't lose your king
12:16
sense of humor. But I, I do fall into the camp
12:22
that says, Doctor Who is at its best when it is a show about You
12:28
know, acquiring knowledge and cross-cultural understanding,
12:32
which leads you to be a better person and, and leads us to have
12:36
more interesting lives. If we Avail ourselves of the
12:39
vast spectrum of opportunities that are various Universe of
12:45
beings and experiences affords us rather than being, you know,
12:50
the baddies in Doctor Who tend to be very narrow-minded and
12:52
tend to have no sense of humor. But you know, Pertwee own
13:00
Pertwee is only afforded his liberalism because he's got
13:03
somebody else to do the shooting.
13:05
Yes. It's, you know, it's so so it's,
13:09
you know, it's it's it's a rocky boat that doctor whose morality
13:12
is on. I'm gonna do kill, he's saying
13:14
to a point. He tries to negotiate here in
13:17
the sea Devils caterpillars on that, I watched a day, he's very
13:21
Charming with all the different owners, although he's a little
13:24
bit racist towards the ice Warriors, it's Nikki.
13:27
Yes. But I think But again, that's
13:29
that's deliberate, that's to show, you know, his his floor.
13:32
That's that, you know, that's deliberately to sort of show.
13:34
Oh, the doctors made a mistake there and as have you because
13:37
you have judged the ice, whereas from all the other ice Warriors
13:39
and they're not all the same and I love the Pertwee or if that I
13:42
love I love Barry Letts shining through.
13:45
You know, that the benevolent Buddhist liberal.
13:48
Barry Letts who wanted us to think about those sorts of
13:51
things are Malcolm Hulk, who, you know, wasn't it was not
13:54
afraid to to Lampoon his own side as well as, you know, have
13:58
a What he saw as, you know, unnecessarily sort of right-wing
14:03
patriotic attitude. See, but, but again, he had a,
14:06
he had a nuanced, take on it. It, you know, eye doctor who is
14:10
is at its worst when it Wags, any drums, it was blind bags,
14:13
it's finger. But I really think all of this
14:16
stuff is done quite artfully. You know, with the right, I am
14:19
thinking of lie, I am seeing a common space, you've got burner
14:23
case character to add some balance.
14:25
With the left in invasion of dinosaurs, you've got, is it?
14:28
Mark, he's there to add a bit of balance, so yeah, well, I think
14:33
that's the lovely thick, you know.
14:34
That's, that's Hulk being up because Hulk was very left wing,
14:37
but, but the, the arseholes invasion of the dinosaurs are
14:40
the ones who are get, do, what I was just sort of, you know, Pat
14:44
themselves on the back but they're very nice liberal
14:45
people, but they won't think twice about wiping out.
14:48
People that don't share their views, you know.
14:51
And again that is a I'm afraid that is a lesson for our times
14:55
today. I'll never stop quoting that
14:57
Terrance dicks. Like Is it the left-wing
15:00
fascists we're going to do terrible things for you but it's
15:03
for your own good. Yeah, absolutely.
15:07
And I say that as somebody that consider themselves to be off
15:10
the left, you know you should never be.
15:13
You should never be blind to to, to The Faults of Europe because
15:17
because there is no certainty, the ones that are certain of the
15:19
Daleks and they're the bad guys, you've got to be aware that
15:22
every moral judgment that you make it actually involves some
15:27
sort of compromise at some But even a compromise of your own
15:30
morality because because otherwise you're a dictator, you
15:34
know, while talking of compromise morality, the lovely
15:38
Simon heart would like, to our was the brigadier's actions at
15:43
the end Justified, you knew someone was going to ask that
15:49
one. It's such a tricky one because I
15:56
mean, it's the brilliant tragedy at the heart of the story
16:01
because in the sense that because the, the warlike Sylar
16:06
Ian prospered because the silurians gave way to their
16:10
worst. Tendency is, and the young Sylar
16:12
Ian, kills the old sign. Aryan.
16:15
He, he is then, you know, voiced by his own petard, the, you
16:19
know, his own attitudes. Are that the humans?
16:23
You know, are perfectly reasonable?
16:25
It's a what? Going to try to wipe us all out
16:27
with the play. You don't blame us for, you
16:32
know, blowing up your Caleb's or yeah, or whatever.
16:36
So, in a way, the story gets itself out of trouble because we
16:42
don't kill the old silurian, it would have been a very different
16:47
if you know, if the old salary and had been there going.
16:50
Well, I'll just freeze everyone and I'll come out and, you know,
16:53
and, and Shake You by that. And then, the Brigadier blow up,
16:56
this would be. That would be very, very
16:58
different. So, so, but of course it's dok2,
17:00
it's teatime entertainment, it show, you know, the show gives
17:05
us The ending that it needs to give us to leave the bitter
17:08
taste, but also totally understand where it's come from.
17:11
A mean that we can, we can have it the same space as the,
17:15
Brigadier the doctors. Yes.
17:17
So, appalled though, isn't he like Otero being cool.
17:23
The doctor is a pot. And, and I mean, it's, you know,
17:25
it's the nature of this sort of show that either needs to be.
17:28
I mean, it does mention it next week.
17:29
Doesn't he go as well as? But the brigadier's got
17:31
something to do dairies. Blowed up the silurians, but,
17:35
you know, the doctor has to A compromise because that's the
17:37
only person bring it. Is the only person that's going
17:38
to give it somewhere to live. I like the fact that he froze
17:43
tool is what you knew. Yeah, yeah she looks appalled at
17:49
that well Chris have been our sin on that note.
17:52
Should there have been a reason why the doctor stays with unit
17:55
after the ending or is this handled in subsequent stories
17:59
enough? I don't want.
18:07
The. Overhanging Dynamics between the
18:11
central characters to get in the way of the story myself.
18:15
I understand now that we have arcs and we sometimes have, you
18:19
know, the doctrine, the companion, having a grudge with
18:21
each other over the course of Three episodes and then
18:24
something will happen. There will be no, no, I
18:25
understand that and all that works and it's don't be done
18:27
very well in the new series. You know, with that that seemed
18:30
to him a car and kill the moon on these fantastic, you know,
18:33
and that has ramifications over the next few episodes, but my
18:35
preference and it's maybe just do to my upbringing is that If
18:40
not a reset button I don't need the I don't really need the
18:43
regulars. Personal problems, hanging over
18:47
this week's brand new adventure. I want to know who you're
18:50
introducing me to what planet were on, what the monsters are,
18:53
what the threats are. I don't the blubbing about the
18:55
fact that they were mean to each other.
18:58
Last week generally, get over it on your knees.
19:00
Now, obviously, the death of a drink is quite always.
19:03
Lots of, that was my one. I would, I would kind of have
19:10
done that at the end of the season, maybe and then and then
19:13
started up again. Sometime late Slater, yeah.
19:17
And obviously, the death of the dogs are, that's a consequence
19:20
that you have to deal with as well.
19:21
Yeah, yeah. But, but I, you know, I I don't
19:26
Kinder, I watch Doctor Who to sort of, you know, as to escape
19:32
from. You know, that the difficulties
19:37
of everyday life and a lot of the difficulties of everyday
19:39
life are dealing with people and relationships.
19:41
And, you know, relationships that work around.
19:44
And also in every other program, you get, you get, you know,
19:48
people being unfaithful to their partner, or, you know, arguments
19:53
with the boss and all of that sort of thing.
19:54
And I, I like dr. To take me somewhere a bit more
19:57
meta, physical, and metaphorical, and, and sort of
20:00
exciting event. And I don't sort of need that
20:02
baggage, if you like, which is odd because then I love it.
20:05
When there's a reference made to something that happened in 1967.
20:08
So again, I'm compromising my own Morality In terms of my very
20:12
my very contradictory world view it all at the end of the day, it
20:16
goes down to your gut really, you know, eyes, and I tend to
20:19
agree with you. I prefer to leave that sort of
20:23
domestic drama to one side and just get on with the adventure.
20:26
But, you know, one of the most successful iterations of the
20:29
show when Rusty Davis was in charge married, the two.
20:33
Yes. And really Loved every minute of
20:37
what Russell T Davies does. And I think he sprinkles that
20:39
stuff into, it's so ugly. But but what Russell does is he
20:43
never loses. That sets of fun, really?
20:46
Now I think there's an argument to say they might get a little
20:49
bit smug in that, in that second season.
20:50
But but then, that is deliberate, you know, you could
20:53
say that's deliberate because then they are rent asunder and
20:55
it's a whole I think that's slightly retcons, to be honest.
20:58
But I, you know, it does make a certain some sense but it's
21:01
never perfect. The beauty of Russell's doctor
21:03
is it's never po-faced it. Never again, watching some of
21:06
the American stuff that I like, for different reasons that
21:08
there's a lot of sort of po-faced in this and everybody
21:10
taking their honor and relationships and all that sort
21:13
of very, very sort of sternly and earnestly.
21:16
And and and doctor who has a sense of sort of zeal about it
21:20
that it should that it should never lose.
21:22
So it's so within that sort of baggage stuff, it should always
21:25
be sort of Pepe and exciting. I have to say, but I love my
21:28
doctor who to be wearing eccentric clothes, but I have to
21:31
say Jon Pertwee in a white T-shirt.
21:33
I know, Never been into that for your team Joey.
21:38
But if if Pertwee was on the subs bench, I might join him.
21:46
I mean there's a little bit of something about part we do but
21:49
often this might be his best. Look well my my ex the mother of
21:52
my children. I was with her when we when they
21:54
repeated this, you know, bbc2 when they did that aborted
21:57
repeat season. And she actually, I was quite I
22:00
was quite chuffed because she thought Jon Pertwee in a white
22:03
T-shirt was quite sexy. Hello my mind.
22:06
Mrs. Fanciest doctor Doctor Who that woman?
22:09
Anything together to it. More than 30 years and has
22:11
hardest will be having a commission fit right now.
22:13
And she watching this, you know, the one is so damn, sexy do so
22:17
damn sexy. Yeah.
22:19
But with with what a white T-shirt, a pair of white
22:22
trousers again, only Pertwee, you know, I really bit worried
22:25
was in the buff in the last one. He was wasn't he?
22:29
He's got a tattoo. Who is it says, have you got any
22:32
tattoos who says that something What side
22:49
does? This story present, the
22:50
thorniest moral dilemma in Doctor Who.
22:54
Well, I shall say hello to Dad on McKay because I know he liked
22:57
it's the type pronounce to surname correctly.
22:59
Once it's, you know, it's in the Cai.
23:02
Jia member jimmyrh I said to you, I had a dealer in UND.
23:06
I see him. He's the one that sent me the
23:09
copy of Doctor, Who in the silurians, he got entire really?
23:11
Yeah. Okay.
23:14
Sour cream is my dealer of the hhs's, in the middle wanna
23:20
little bit of season seven straight.
23:23
You know it was a pain friendship.
23:27
You know, when you talk about adverse on it just start off our
23:32
that and it's like, well I got all these things will be to copy
23:34
him. Next day, how kind I can't think
23:38
of many dogs? Who stories, you know that I
23:40
have a moral dilemma like this. No I think this is a
23:45
particularly good one which is why I think it's such an
23:47
excellent and underrated story. Really I think this is a this is
23:52
a 10 out of 10 for me and I don't give many tens as a sort
23:56
of contrast then when we do this again in the sea Devils but we
24:00
basically goes well I have to blow them up, you know there was
24:02
no alternative. Yeah.
24:05
I really enjoyed the sea Devils last time we did it but I don't
24:07
think it's as rich as this I think it's got many different
24:11
great things about it, but I you know if I'm thinking of, you
24:15
know, high-end doctor I think the CW is is a an excellent
24:19
example of really good Doctor Who, but I think this is a this
24:22
is a prime cut. This is juegue Doctor Who.
24:26
So I think I just think it is grass-fed doctor who have been
24:29
massaged. It's just more interesting story
24:34
telling yeah and it's gonna be so good if you lie under table
24:38
and do wires and he just looks fantastic.
24:41
He looks hot as hell, I'm sort of season 7 Buffon at this
24:58
point as well. His hairs under control.
25:01
Yeah, he's yeah. He's, it's a kind of normal and
25:04
it's a sort of more Steely gray, isn't it?
25:06
It goes, It goes a bit. Mrs. Slocombe later.
25:08
But he said it's, you know, he still pulls it off though.
25:13
Oh, he is effortless. He is again, I do, I'm not sure.
25:17
We produce people who have such sort of natural presidents and
25:21
elegance and style. He's just one of those people.
25:23
You could you could put anything on that man and he would, he
25:26
would still just look. I mean if you if you put some of
25:29
his clothes on somebody who didn't have that innate presence
25:35
and posture and all of that, they look, you see it sometimes
25:38
where where you can see people have dressed like a Victorian or
25:46
Edwardian Dandy, but what they do is they look like someone who
25:53
lives in with their mummies, been crammed into something from
25:55
Oxfam and I would, I would like, I have, I have tried to, to sort
26:00
of dress in a way that I Ink is elegant and it doesn't hang off
26:03
me, right? I'm not a stylish man.
26:06
And in fact, when I, when I went into Korean I played Fergus I I
26:11
said to them. I want him to be a beige man who
26:16
thinks he's a kaleidoscope so that we put him in waistcoats
26:19
and quite and shirts that on Jon Pertwee would have looked
26:22
amazing. But on me looked shit so it is
26:25
an attempt to be sort of, you know, eccentric and and And
26:31
interesting. And actually, I looked, I looked
26:34
that was the point because we hurt we even looks cool in a
26:37
bloody jumps. Yeah.
26:42
Decision and including what, he wears, nothing, so absurd in
26:44
this show. No, I'm the most stylish, man.
26:47
I'm the most competent. I'm the smartest man in the
26:49
room. I mean, I couldn't believe it
26:52
either dinosaurs forgotten this scene, where the ogron came in,
26:54
he's holding that drink and he chops us.
26:57
He chops the soldier on the head and he takes a swig of the
27:00
drink. I love it.
27:01
So called such a good job that we never did Darren.
27:05
McCarty's question, did we is this the thorniest moral dilemma
27:09
in Doctor Who? Oh, and we had one like that, I
27:12
suppose. Ah.
27:14
Oh, that's, that's Keith. Ashley at the desk.
27:16
He was an extra in lodz. He's one of the zygons.
27:21
I think we've decided, yes. It's, I think it.
27:24
Yes. Yes, we did.
27:25
We did answer the question. That is the, it's the answer.
27:27
Yes. I think it probably is.
27:30
I suppose. Do I have The right in Genesis
27:32
of the Daleks is a similarly thorny dilemma.
27:36
And again, you know, isn't it? Isn't it?
27:39
True that that is one of the most oft cited.
27:45
You know, examples of Doctor Who being thoughtful and intelligent
27:47
that, you know, do I have the right?
27:49
Would you go back and kill a child?
27:51
And you know, if you had a file that could kill everything,
27:54
would you use it? You know, it's all there.
27:56
Look, there's a real confidence in these masks that they'll
28:00
shoot them so close. And I love the fact that the
28:02
mouths actually move a little bit because they've got clothes
28:04
pegs on haven't then they wobble.
28:05
And it's just enough, I think. I think it's great, and I'm
28:13
going to hit you with a couple of more questions.
28:14
I'll go to try and squeeze them all in Crash Dummy.
28:18
That's an interesting name asks, why do I find the only picture
28:21
of Malcolm Hulk that they use in all the extras?
28:23
Absolutely terrifying. It gives me genuine fear.
28:28
Is he terrifying to look at what those clearly, because you hate
28:32
50 year. Old men with balding, and with
28:35
white good job. This is only audio Look at this,
28:42
here we have it. The caves blow up, what up?
28:44
And it's and it starts with a lovely little joke of the the
28:47
little phial of liquid. That men's Bessie, do you think?
28:50
Oh, this is going to be a cute ending and Lizzy's looking
28:53
comically pissed off with the doctors stupid car and the
28:57
doctor. And he does this lovely little
28:59
thing where he traces the the liquid and it's beautiful.
29:03
I love that and you sort of go and now we're going home.
29:06
No instead. Whoo.
29:07
It's blown up the aliens. And it's a wait you mean we
29:11
talked about the doctor not telling the Brigadier that Quinn
29:15
had I say, you know, he was a bit morally dubious are.
29:18
Well, the Brigadier just had stopped.
29:19
Do I do to leave it with me? I'll see you go.
29:22
Yeah, yeah. Uh it's uh Chad at such an
29:28
unusual ending but Doctor Who? Well, I mean, yeah, it's not a
29:33
story. I think of as depressing know
29:36
what it's not unusual as in its ending with an explosion because
29:39
that happens every other week. But it's yeah, but it's doctors
29:42
making or choice. And it's not a triumphant
29:46
explosion. Yeah.
29:50
And Pertwee does this really well.
29:52
And she's great when she says, no, I didn't know asshole.
29:58
I love what Barry. Lets us about this in a country
30:00
where apparently the dialogue was different.
30:03
And there was no reference to the fact that they've been
30:06
murdered and he said no, make it explicit, make the doctor say
30:11
that's harder. Beautiful.
30:14
It's fantastic. And it's, and what list says,
30:17
they're about the government were frightened, these, the
30:20
people, the doctors working for now and I love the fact that
30:23
he's going to drive again and you hear another explosion and
30:26
it makes him look up again. And in the book I think and they
30:30
it says they you know they drove home in silence or oh it's I'll
30:34
that is such a good ending to a doctor who story rather vo
30:39
Doctor Who in 1970 I what a wonderful Wonderful thing to do.
30:46
I think they only just, but they do top the ending in ambassadors
30:53
of death, because I just, I just love how the doctor refuses to
31:00
judge carrots. And at the end of that, yes, I
31:03
remember my brother was watching that and going, oh, that's a bit
31:06
of a, that's a bit of a damp squib.
31:07
And I can understand that the ambassador's doesn't end in the
31:11
traditional way because You know that.
31:13
Yeah, that the main body doesn't get, you know, blown to bits.
31:17
Or doesn't doesn't get his moment of, you know, Insanity
31:20
where he has to threaten to kill somebody and get shot himself at
31:23
the last minute. But instead has that very, yeah,
31:27
that that's a very beautiful thing where he shoots at the
31:31
thing that you can't possibly kill and and sort of begs, the
31:34
doctor to just give him, give him an inch and the doctor very
31:39
sweetly, Does. Yeah.
31:43
Wonderful. It's a I do also think as well,
31:46
you know, had they changed the running of Inferno ambassadors
31:51
of death. It would have made absolute
31:52
sense for list or to hang around because he leaves her.
31:55
At the end of that doesn't he says well you can have help from
31:57
the shore goodbye and he walks off.
31:59
Yeah. Yeah I do love that ending for
32:03
investors but I think I think dramatically.
32:06
Yes a stronger ending. I think it's a it's a it's a
32:09
beautiful. And graceful thing that they do,
32:10
Lassiter's. But in terms of dramatic,
32:13
pleasing nurse, if you like, I think I think salarians has the
32:16
edge, you know, you got to remember.
32:18
We've been this has been on now for what three and nearly three
32:23
hours like it's a long run in time.
32:25
So it does need a bit of a punch at the end for it to go and it
32:30
doesn't disappoint. Oh no Terry.
32:33
So you can go to bed at some point tonight.
32:36
Would you please indulge me with the final Choice of three
32:41
things. I know we've covered a lot.
32:44
Oh yeah, we've talked about a lot will do one apiece.
32:48
Sorry, three apiece, you've got us and then me yes.
32:52
You know how this works? Well II have to get in there.
32:58
We've talked about it a lot, but I do think Peter Peter miles is
33:02
death scene, but Peter miles throughout because it's been
33:07
sort of simmering up to that point.
33:09
But Peter miles is death scene, I think.
33:11
One of the most marvelous things for reasons.
33:13
I've got into at length and probably repetitively.
33:16
So I think I'll say Peter miles is death scene.
33:21
And you could say, thank you. That's what I wanted to know.
33:28
I am going to say, Tim Coombs Direction, but for a specific
33:33
reason, this is the first time Doctor Who went into the studios
33:37
in color, so he kind of had a lot to do and And the bits of
33:41
proof. And I just think the whole story
33:45
is shot very imaginatively. Like, you know, he's doing
33:49
interior caves and things like that.
33:51
Suddenly in color the details more noticeable and I don't
33:54
think that two tracks at all. Yeah, I just think it is, you
33:59
know, it's a long bloody story and he keeps it visually
34:02
interesting throughout and like, has cost it brilliantly as well.
34:06
Like sort of on every level you can gauge a director.
34:11
A schools. Are he does?
34:13
He does? I think we talked of him in much
34:16
more, Hello terms if he directed, I mean, you know,
34:18
Michael Ferguson, who is rightly lauded only directed four
34:21
stories. So so if Tim had a couple more
34:24
goes I think he might be seen in the, you know I think you know
34:28
the classic series you know, Ferguson is the only sort of
34:33
serious rival to those, you know, to those great, you know,
34:37
long-running lauded, you know, the Campfield and Maloney and
34:40
And or at Harper, who did it only to, but he did, he did, he
34:44
did quite he did to in a very different time and where the,
34:49
the Gulf of quality was much much bigger, but I think, you
34:52
know, I think Ferguson is a serious rival to those guys.
34:54
And I think Tim Cone could have been had he come back and
34:57
directed, you know, you know there's this the sea devils are
35:01
the mutants and and then you know, one of the latest stories
35:05
invasion of the dinosaurs or whatever.
35:07
I mean I think we've talked about Seasons seven a lot but I
35:10
think Law of its success is down to the fact that there are four
35:13
terrific directors. Yeah.
35:15
In that support. Yeah.
35:16
All of season 7 is really well directed definitely.
35:21
Well, I have to go for my second thing of the basic premise,
35:24
which I think is one of the great ingenious ideas.
35:27
I've got all to storytelling which is often comfortingly
35:29
similar in the stories that it's trying to tell us and, you know,
35:33
just dresses them in different uniform and, and, and, and
35:36
speaks them with a different tongue.
35:38
But this is a genuine attempt to go.
35:41
Well, why don't we do a thing where it's a sort of, where the
35:44
bad guys are, that makes us think of all the sort of thorny
35:48
moral issues that we've talked about and it doesn't fudge.
35:50
Them. It lays them out quite
35:52
elegantly. It doesn't make it easy on
35:56
itself and yet it you know it gives us the young Sylar in it
36:01
in order to give us that ending that we need to fit it within
36:04
the format of the series. But I think it's really well.
36:07
I think it's really well molded into the format of Doctor Who
36:11
whilst doing well whilst engaging in a premise that is
36:14
unusual and ingenious and I mean, just a brilliant idea.
36:20
We They were here, first. Get over it.
36:23
Yeah, my second is again, a bit obvious, but I've got reasons
36:29
Jon Pertwee, who from his very first scene is aware that he's
36:33
the most impressive person in the room and so we but it's not
36:38
for those sort of moments. I love his relationship with Liz
36:44
and I think that sort of relationship of equals is really
36:47
interesting. I love his conflict with the
36:50
brig Oh, dear. And how seriously that's played
36:52
at this point. It's not just all for Comic
36:54
effect. I love how he needles dr.
36:57
Lawrence and I love how sweet he is with the old silurians as
37:02
well but that I was watching those things and again I'm only
37:06
looking at body language because I couldn't hear any dialogue but
37:09
he's so sweet with him and then I love his sort of moral
37:13
indignation at the end when there is just brilliant.
37:15
It is unbelievable to think this is his second story.
37:18
I think most actors. Playing the doctor, take a while
37:22
to settle in. I certainly think trout.
37:24
And did I even think Tom Baker did a little bit but I think Jon
37:29
Pertwee just had it. He might have been nervous but
37:32
he ain't showing it and and bear in mind he I think prior to
37:36
this, he had either never or only once done drama in a
37:42
television. Studio it done, radio it done
37:45
film film acting is very different from multi-camera.
37:50
No recording, which is a technically very difficult thing
37:54
to do people who think, you know, go it's just acting you're
37:57
not bumping into the furniture actually knowing your camera
38:02
knowing having to remember where to land and all the little
38:06
business that you've got. That has to marry up and bleep
38:08
like that and doing it as part of a continuous recording.
38:11
Where if you go wrong you got the whole thing and it has a
38:14
domino effect. It's a hugely technical exit,
38:19
irrespective that you've then got Give a relaxed performance
38:23
and be good and funny and energetic and focused.
38:26
And remember all the stuff that you've rehearsed and give the
38:29
performance that you want to give in terms of interpretation.
38:32
But actually the Practical thing of doing multi camera acting is
38:36
is not actually for the faint-hearted.
38:39
And, and this is this is this is his first.
38:42
Yeah, because it's a dramatic role in the studio, isn't it?
38:46
Yes. His first dramatic role in the
38:47
studio? I think he may have done an
38:49
episode of something. But I think you've done an
38:51
episode of a comedy. I don't think you've done an
38:52
episode of a drama. So it's, yeah, and spearheads.
38:55
All on film spearheads done, like a movie.
38:57
So yeah, a man who was used to doing comedy, who was a bit
39:01
nervous about doing? Serious stuff and is the leading
39:07
man, you know, it with, you know, in a sort of to Studio
39:11
Days, Every Fortnight kind of situation where you have to get
39:15
it all in the can is, you know, I take my hat off to him.
39:18
Nothing. If there was any doubt, go watch
39:21
that thing again, where he says, two major baking a you are ill.
39:26
You're very, very and then he just screams Cape back for, you
39:30
know, he's just brilliant. Yeah.
39:32
Yeah, he is. And he's He's not amongst my
39:34
favorite doctors at all but I'm I'm I'm feeling a lot of Pertwee
39:39
love this year having gone back to a lot of his stories having
39:44
bad a bit of a downer on him in between seeing in first in the
39:47
five phases of doctor and loving him and then collecting all the
39:51
videos and finding his ear a bit disappointing.
39:53
And then getting over myself and and you know, learning to love
39:58
the purple stuff. And I'm so, so enjoying Sort of
40:05
reassessing. It's not that I didn't like it
40:09
but you know, there weren't there and I always like season
40:12
7. But I'm actually I'm actually
40:14
warming to him so much more now and I wonder if he's going, he
40:19
was never near the bottom of - but he was certainly not near
40:22
the top of my favorites either. But I can write I can find no
40:26
fault with him. He's right at the top of my list
40:28
is always for one of my face and I saw what my comfort doctor
40:31
that he's at authority figure on How does a child jump her way?
40:35
You're in safe. Hands with him.
40:37
I think it's the fact that he's just such a one-off.
40:40
Yeah, you know, he's and I mean, nobody could beat Tom Baker's
40:45
description of him being at all night bulb, you know?
40:48
And and he is, I just can't, you know anyone that can go, you
40:52
know, hi one second, and then be hypnotizing, you know, a man and
40:56
monkey soup with a spinning mirror the next while singing of
41:00
pollution lullaby. So I have one more you do for
41:10
sure. Well I mean you've mentioned Tim
41:14
cool but can I say the film? Oh god dammit the location where
41:19
I was thinking exact one. I just love it but it speaks to
41:23
so many other elements. It does speak to the direction
41:26
but it also speaks to is it is it Fred Hamilton the the
41:28
cameraman I think I get my camera except somewhere there's
41:32
Peter in the sometimes it's Peter in this.
41:33
Fred. Now I'll find out with Tony Lego
41:36
but it's not a Englander. I think it's a Hamilton.
41:41
How does a has two anyway Yes, we're not throwing away that
41:51
shot of when they more and I think it's partially because
41:56
that they hold back the silurian till the end of episode 3.
42:01
And I talked before about, you know, be something.
42:03
I've been a bit of a chore in a Dalek episode to wait for the
42:05
day. This is, this is a deliberate
42:07
slowly feeding out of the image of that, which is just a man in
42:11
a green suit, but it's built it up so well and they're shot so
42:14
well throughout the story anyway, but I love all of that
42:16
stuff of him coming. Out of the caves at silhouetted
42:18
against the Sun and and you see the slight arch in its back.
42:22
And and then the point of view shots, and that's all film work.
42:25
But then you get a sweeping stop on anymore, not, you know, we
42:28
didn't know drones in those days but they got a helicopter and
42:31
all that stuff with, you know, dr.
42:32
Lawrence, you know, and waving and you get a real sweep of that
42:36
the dogs at the soldiers, in the distance, which gives it a real
42:39
feel of sort of scale and then you've got the stuff, you know,
42:43
at the train station and the death of Masters, you know, the
42:46
film The Film camera work. You know, the actual shooting of
42:50
it is really, really skillful but what, what all of the film
42:53
elements bring to the story different points?
42:57
It's it's not just about giving it a sense of scale.
43:01
It's actually about sometimes the pace of the story and the
43:05
movement of the story and and that the tension of the story
43:12
and then, you know, that the high-stakes because everybody's
43:16
got I'm falling down dead in a really popular place and part of
43:20
you is going cause you know, that's television to go.
43:22
How the hell did they do this? Because the I mean people, why
43:24
is nobody goping and pointing at the camera.
43:26
So this part you've got part of that ago that until they pull
43:29
this off and also. So yeah, it looks like a train
43:33
station where I would be in everyone's dying and I know this
43:36
is television yet. It kind of isn't looking like
43:38
television. So people turning on the TV at
43:40
the wrong time you know, you know.
43:42
Yeah so yeah and I actually the fact that it ends on a film I'm
43:46
shot as well. I think, yeah.
43:48
Is that last one? Where the cars?
43:50
Put in a way, or the mushroom goes, all of the fact that they
43:54
actually have the sort of cojones to go, we'll have the
43:58
explosion in the distance as well.
44:00
You know, we're not going to be right.
44:01
It's a kind of, it's almost like it's a sort of, you know, that's
44:06
how pathetic this Dreadful Act is, it's a flash of light.
44:12
Quite a long way away. But we know that those
44:16
explosions Are having a, you know, a mighty effect, you know,
44:24
the ramifications the, you know, the the effect that they have is
44:31
so much bigger than than how they look, you know, just
44:35
they're popping in the distance. I think it's really, it's really
44:38
sort of destroying all that potential that the doctor can
44:41
see of the two races heartbreaking.
44:46
You know, who knows what they could have offered us.
44:48
Yeah. My songs always contrarian up to
44:53
suggest carry blind score, which I do think is unique and
44:58
memorable and weird. And all of those things I do
45:01
like in the music. Wow, because he's been preying
45:05
on my mind a lot. I want to say Norman Jones's
45:09
major Baker because like, I sensually.
45:12
Yeah, he's like the gibaek of this story.
45:14
I always use gibaek as the worst example of that character.
45:18
That is Getting in everyone's way all the time and making the
45:22
story a bit longer than it needs to be, right.
45:26
And it's essentially that character is the one that's sort
45:28
of escaping out of hospital is the one that's complaining about
45:32
what's happening in the research center.
45:34
He's the one that's accusing the doctor of being a traitor, but
45:38
it's such a thoughtful performers.
45:41
Yes, hatch Newhart's character, you really like him, and, like I
45:45
said earlier, he's technically right?
45:48
Yes. Well, Which helps.
45:50
So I just I just think he's a really interesting character who
45:54
in later Doctor, Who's would probably be a bit terrible and a
45:59
bit sort of roll your eyes and instead you want to watch him
46:03
anything that gives Norman juror chance to give Norman Jones's do
46:06
because I think he was a fine actor.
46:08
As I say, I think he he I'm told by one of his relatives that in
46:13
later life, he was, he was rather forlorn about the
46:16
industry sort of forgetting him. And I think that's very sad.
46:19
But at the same time, then resisted overtures from the
46:23
likes of us to get him on the DVDs and things.
46:25
So that was a shame that he allowed that to consuming,
46:27
because he could have actually, you know, he could have, he
46:31
could have been on all the DVDs that you only died and he died
46:33
in relative. Terms relatively recently, he
46:36
could have been on all those DVDs.
46:39
But but for whatever reason, his unhappiness with the way, it
46:43
turned out meant that he, you know, he resisted that which I
46:47
think is rather sad. So I'm I'm pleased that we get
46:51
the opportunity to let these people live on.
46:54
It makes no difference to him because he's dead, which is very
46:56
sad. But I'm glad that we are able to
46:59
go know. Your work is work was valued and
47:02
I think he's exit I love it's just little things like when he
47:04
says to Sergeant Hart you know, can you just help me with my
47:07
jacket before, you know, clobbering, it's he does not
47:09
something lovely little sort of touches in yours but then he's
47:14
got enough heft to rise to the occasions of the, of the bigger
47:17
stuff. And I He's also, I think he's
47:20
brilliant as Chris song and an abominable snowman which is
47:23
potentially much more OneNote part but I think he brings a lot
47:27
to that. I think he's really good in what
47:29
we're in this awareness bizarre advantageous position.
47:32
Where Doctor Who's gone on for so long now that you have
47:35
actors, lying or murders like Michael sheared, the made lots
47:39
of different appearances and you get to see just how diverse is
47:45
actors are in different roles and those three trolls.
47:48
What was the third one? Oh they're so different almost
47:52
there. So yeah and what a wonderful
47:55
voice he has I think it's at its best you know in maskman drag
48:00
week goes very deep does he yeah yeah I don't I don't quite get
48:05
on with the slightly staccato delivery.
48:08
He gives Hieronymus when he's been taken over by the
48:11
mandragora Helix that, I could see what he's trying to do.
48:13
That doesn't quite work for me. It's and it's a shame because
48:18
it's a Part on paper. It looks fantastic.
48:21
It's probably my least favorite of his of his turns in who, but
48:27
I I'm still glad he's there in mandragora, but I remember being
48:32
slightly disappointed because I knew it was going to be him and
48:34
as AA brilliant, cause he's one of my favorite actors and he's
48:37
playing this great part. That's really good in the book
48:39
and then going, ah, and actually finding finding cat Federico
48:43
paid by the gorgeous. John Laura Moore, who's a bit
48:46
sort of OneNote villain in the book.
48:49
Raising in the different Stars. Fantastic, you see, what is it?
48:57
You could no more. Tell the stars that you could
48:59
tell the contents of my chamber pot, haha, and gloriously
49:03
companies wise, wonderful well, as courts. 12, I'm Gonna Let You
49:10
got a bet. I want to say a massive, thank
49:13
you, because she realized we've managed to add on about 20
49:17
minutes. So whichever so sweet end
49:19
leaving Goodbye. The silurians for about five
49:21
hours now. Can I apologize to your
49:23
listeners? No thank you though.
49:25
Sorry. They love listening to you but I
49:28
would say a massive, thank you for your time.
49:30
I was a doctor who fan Joey. I'd hate me.
49:33
I think I was everywhere. I was really fine.
49:36
I do so hate you so well bless ya go.
49:42
I'm going to try and entice you back on this thing and some
49:45
points. Do another one.
49:46
What we're going to do what you're going to tell me what
49:52
Now, you put me on the spot and we do a new series 1 because
49:56
that's not my comfort zone or or just I got, I got two episodes,
50:00
I'd love to do and I think you'd like them.
50:04
I think you sound like one of them.
50:06
Do you like sound of drums, the last of the titles?
50:09
Well, interesting, because I remember them being quite a
50:12
disappointment at the time. That was the General tenor of
50:15
the of the conversation at the time, I actually I do like them.
50:20
I like the kind of urban Thriller feel that too.
50:27
Another certain scenes that I absolutely adore certain bits
50:30
that don't quite work for me. But no, I do.
50:33
I do like them. There's certainly a lot to say
50:37
about them. I mean, I love all of Russell's
50:40
it. I'm a sycophantic, you know,
50:44
admirer of what Russell T Davies brings daughter.
50:50
Even though I, you know, I'm you know I'm aware of some things
50:53
that that that people quite rightly point out.
50:56
Perhaps that that don't work as well as they might.
50:58
But I, I think everything is bought with, with the huge
51:04
currency of that that wit that Zeal, that paste, that heart,
51:08
that all of that. I just think it's a miracle.
51:11
What he did to talk to who. So my alternative, my skeleton
51:16
is a to par that I have grown to love a lot and I'd like to
51:21
spread some love for or how you feel about it and that is rising
51:25
this browser side. Men, the age of Steel.
51:28
I remember that being quite disappointing, but the time, but
51:32
it's been what you'd look back now.
51:34
You sometimes. Go wait at how, lucky, how lucky
51:37
we were. Yeah, naughty Chileno.
51:40
Simon were not first episode. Yeah.
51:44
I mean, I would of, of the two. I would probably choose last of
51:50
the time Lords, but I'm, I'm, I'm open to doing necessary out
51:53
then. Let's do sound of drums.
51:55
And last of the time Lords, all right.
51:57
Let's talk about there and yet. Okay, well, well, you heard it
52:01
here first, so did we? We all know.
52:04
That's how, you know, when sound of drums came out.
52:06
I loved it so much. I must have watched that 15
52:09
times in the week, leading up to last of the time Lords.
52:12
I already know my one, my first of my three things which is just
52:16
an it's just a bit but I just love it.
52:20
Wow, I cannot wait Toby. Thank you very much.
52:23
It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for doing this lovely
52:26
podcast and for being such an enthusiastic.
52:30
We've only met for about 30 seconds but I know thank you for
52:35
doing this and and thank you for asking me on it.
52:37
So it's a great pleasure until next time.
52:43
I'm route.