Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / REMAINS OF TOT ELIJAH VUE, 3, FOUND BY DEER HUNTER AFTER MOMMY SENDS HIM TO TORTURE CAMP WITH LOVER

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REMAINS OF TOT ELIJAH VUE, 3, FOUND BY DEER HUNTER AFTER MOMMY SENDS HIM TO TORTURE CAMP WITH LOVER · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:07
Speaker 2: The remains of a little topboy, three year old Elijah View.
0:13
Speaker 2: A deer hunter stumbled upon this little boy's remains. This
0:20
Speaker 2: after we know for a fact that mommy sends little elies.
0:24
Speaker 2: You just three to basically a torture camp with her
0:28
Speaker 2: convicted fellon lover where he vows to quote make the
0:34
Speaker 2: boy respect me and turn him into a man. Well,
0:39
Speaker 2: now he's dead. Imagine a tap boy three years old?
0:44
Speaker 2: Want to see this tall his little skeletonized remains found
0:51
Speaker 2: by deer hunters. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
0:56
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us.
0:58
Speaker 3: Katrina Bauer drops all for three year old son at
1:02
Speaker 3: boyfriend Jesse Veng's home so the convicted felon can teach
1:07
Speaker 3: the three year old Todd how to be a man.
1:11
Speaker 3: Where is Elijah.
1:14
Speaker 1: How to be a man?
1:17
Speaker 2: Joining me an all star panel to make sense of
1:19
Speaker 2: what we know right now, But first I want you
1:22
Speaker 2: to hear what Two Rivers Police Chief Ben Minor has
1:25
Speaker 2: to say.
1:25
Speaker 4: Last Saturday, Sheriff Hartwag called me immediately upon learning his
1:31
Speaker 4: deputies were responding to investigate a report of skeletal remains
1:36
Speaker 4: found by someone in the town of Two Rivers with
1:38
Speaker 4: night falling near the entire area was secured well. A
1:44
Speaker 4: variety of resources were gathered to investigate. Ultimately, a forensic
1:49
Speaker 4: anthropologist with the Wisconsin State Crime Laboratories was able to
1:54
Speaker 4: confirm a skull and bones as human remains.
1:58
Speaker 2: And joining us now, anthropologist and director of the Florida
2:02
Speaker 2: Institute for a Forensic Anthropology and Applied Science. But before
2:07
Speaker 2: I go to our esteemed guest, doctor Aaron Kimberly straight
2:11
Speaker 2: out to news anchor investigative reporter WBAYTV Brittany Schmidt joining us,
2:19
Speaker 2: tell me about how the deer hunters found this little
2:24
Speaker 2: boy's remains and war Elijah's remains skeletonized.
2:30
Speaker 5: Yeah, according to the police, he skeletal remains. We are
2:34
Speaker 5: waiting for authorities to give us a little bit more
2:36
Speaker 5: information about that. It does make sense that he was
2:39
Speaker 5: found by a hunter. We do have a hunting season
2:42
Speaker 5: coming up, so the hunter was out looking over its property.
2:45
Speaker 5: This is a very densely covered area. We know that
2:48
Speaker 5: authorities have searched this area plenty of times before as
2:52
Speaker 5: the seasons changed, things come up. They even talk to
2:55
Speaker 5: farmers about tilling their land. So it made sense that
2:58
Speaker 5: it was found by a hunters.
3:00
Speaker 2: Difficult for me to I guess, understand or connect the
3:10
Speaker 2: photos of this beautiful three year old little boy, Elijah
3:14
Speaker 2: Vieu to telling farmers to see what quote comes up
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Speaker 2: when they tilled their land. Now that's the blanket he
3:23
Speaker 2: was last seen with, the red, black and white plaid blanket.
3:28
Speaker 2: Mommy sending Elijah, her little boy to go be with
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Speaker 2: her convicted fellon boyfriend to quote teach him respect. Let
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Speaker 2: me go straight out to doctor Aaron Kimberley, but first
3:45
Speaker 2: listen to this.
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Speaker 4: The remains were found on private property by a person
3:49
Speaker 4: getting his land ready for the hunting season, a thick
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Speaker 4: wooded area with heavy underbrush just to the north of Manitou.
3:59
Speaker 4: This location is just over three miles northwest of where
4:02
Speaker 4: he originally was reported missing. This area had been searched
4:05
Speaker 4: several times, as had been reported by law enforcement searches,
4:10
Speaker 4: by private searches by the landowner, by air, and with
4:15
Speaker 4: various search and rescue teams.
4:17
Speaker 1: Which raises the specter.
4:20
Speaker 2: Was Elijah VU's body his remains there the entire time
4:24
Speaker 2: and searchers missed him, or was his body moved after
4:30
Speaker 2: the area had been searched and planted there. We don't know,
4:34
Speaker 2: But one thing I do know is I've got an expert,
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Speaker 2: a renowned forensic anthropologist, director of the Florida Institute for
4:42
Speaker 2: Forensic Anthropology and Applied Science, a University of South Florida,
4:47
Speaker 2: and author of Skeletal Trauma Identification of Skeletal Injuries resulting
4:54
Speaker 2: from Human Rights Abuse and Armed Conflict. You can find
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Speaker 2: her at Aaron generally dot com.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Kimberly, thank you for being with us.
5:04
Speaker 2: Explain to me why at the get go these remains
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Speaker 2: could not be positively identified as being three year old
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Speaker 2: top boy Elijah View.
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Speaker 1: So what did the.
5:16
Speaker 2: Anthropologists have to go through to make that identification.
5:21
Speaker 6: Well, initially they're going to collect all of the remains.
5:24
Speaker 6: It's really important that the scene is excavated properly, and
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Speaker 6: I was happy to hear in the police chief's report
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Speaker 6: it sounded like they slowed everything down when it was
5:36
Speaker 6: first when he was first found, brought in the right
5:38
Speaker 6: experts because that context is going to give you so
5:41
Speaker 6: much information about the manner of death, and in a
5:45
Speaker 6: difficult case like this, that's going to be really important.
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Speaker 6: So the anthropologist will ultimately excavate even though the remains
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Speaker 6: are on the surface. It's a term we use because
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Speaker 6: you think about the changing seasons, there's leaf litter, there's
5:58
Speaker 6: vegetation growing up through them. I'm not surprised that they
6:02
Speaker 6: were missed initially through some of the early searches. That's
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Speaker 6: very common at the point at which they found him. Basically,
6:09
Speaker 6: to search you have to be down on your hands
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Speaker 6: and kneeds with a trowel going through the underbrush, and
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Speaker 6: so's that's sadly what happens in those cases.
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Speaker 1: Well, now, doctor Aaron Cimberly, several questions.
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Speaker 2: Number one, why are you not surprised that his body
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Speaker 2: his remains were missed during the earlier searches of this
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Speaker 2: very heavily wooded area.
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Speaker 6: Well, you think about when he first went missing in February.
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Speaker 6: I don't know what the snowfall was for Wisconsin last spring,
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Speaker 6: but it's quite likely that his body was first covered
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Speaker 6: with snow and then one spring, you know, emerges and
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Speaker 6: all of that underbrush blooms. They would likely become pretty
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Speaker 6: hidden in that brush, and so unless you're you know,
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Speaker 6: down on the ground with a trowel, the search is
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Speaker 6: really incomplet You think about when a child or anyone
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Speaker 6: goes missing those early searches, you're looking for the person
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Speaker 6: alive wandering off, You're looking for a whole body, and
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Speaker 6: so by summer you would have had very small skilled
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Speaker 6: remains basically camouflaged, you know now the color of the
7:15
Speaker 6: soil and the brush around it.
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Speaker 2: To Karen Stark, a renowned psychologist, TV radio trauma expert
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Speaker 2: at Karenstark dot com, Karen, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 2: I'm really, as I said, having a hard time reconciling
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Speaker 2: these photos of three year old top boy Elijah Vie
7:34
Speaker 2: with what Britney Schmidt from w Bay and doctor Aaron
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Speaker 2: Kimerly are saying. Did you hear Kimerly just state that
7:43
Speaker 2: after many weeks that the remains would take on the
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Speaker 2: appearance of the brush, the overgrowth. The little boy just
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Speaker 2: vanished into the leaves and the just it's just hard
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Speaker 2: for me. I mean, Karen, you were with me raising
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Speaker 2: the children, and you remember them at age three.
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Speaker 1: I mean, they're this big, they are.
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Speaker 2: Completely defenseless, and thinking about this child's remains blending in
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Speaker 2: with the foliage, I'm just having a really hard time
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Speaker 2: reconciling that all those words will be in the same sentence.
8:29
Speaker 1: Karen's start and think about it, Nancy.
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Speaker 7: You're talking about a three year old and they're saying
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Speaker 7: that she sent him to her boyfriend lover, whoever he was,
8:38
Speaker 7: because she wanted him to be a man. A three
8:41
Speaker 7: year old should be a man. And that's the kind
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Speaker 7: of unrealistic expectations you find in parents who are neglectful.
8:49
Speaker 7: We don't know the full story.
8:51
Speaker 1: And realistic whoa whoa? Whoa? Unrealistic? What unrealistic to expect
8:58
Speaker 1: a thirty six.
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Speaker 2: Month old child to be? Quote a man? What kind
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Speaker 2: of man? Can I see the convict lover? Let me
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Speaker 2: see him? So this is the guy that mommy sends
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Speaker 2: her child. Oh, okay him, he's got a wrap sheet
9:16
Speaker 2: as long as I'm seventy five, and she sends her
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Speaker 2: tiny taught to him.
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Speaker 1: I mean what?
9:27
Speaker 2: And Nancy, he's blaming I'm actually without words, Karen Stark.
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Speaker 7: He's blaming her. He's saying that it's her fault because
9:36
Speaker 7: she wanted him to be the one to teach this
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Speaker 7: boy to be a man and respect him and discipline him.
9:43
Speaker 7: And this little boy was essentially tortured.
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Speaker 2: And Mommy, in her maternal wisdom, sends her child her
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Speaker 2: little baby boy alone with this guy, who I.
9:55
Speaker 1: Might add has not been charged with murder.
9:57
Speaker 2: Average snowfall Feb eleven inches in two rivers. Listen to
10:04
Speaker 2: more of what police chief Minor says.
10:06
Speaker 4: The remains found by the hunter and recovered by law enforcement.
10:10
Speaker 4: We're taking to the Wisconsin Crime Lab for DNA testing
10:14
Speaker 4: to identify the person. It is with a heavy heart
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Speaker 4: that I announced to you today those remains were identified
10:20
Speaker 4: as Elijah Vou With that news and following this briefing,
10:26
Speaker 4: the Amber alert will be canceled.
10:27
Speaker 2: To doctor Aaron Kimberley again joining us Frensy anthropologist Doctor Kimberly.
10:34
Speaker 1: By this point, let's see there are I believe two.
10:36
Speaker 2: Hundred and six bones in the human body, and you
10:40
Speaker 2: said the area had to be excavated very carefully.
10:42
Speaker 1: We also heard from a police chief.
10:45
Speaker 2: Being Minored that the remains by the time law enforcement
10:49
Speaker 2: got there to this remote area, it was nighttime, so
10:53
Speaker 2: the area had to be roped off and protected and
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Speaker 2: a night search ensued.
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Speaker 1: Those are really hard.
11:01
Speaker 2: I remember watching the night search for Kelly Anthony's remains.
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Speaker 2: Kelley almost three in a swampy area about ten houses
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Speaker 2: away from top Mom Casey Anthony's home, and there were tents,
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Speaker 2: there were bright lights like you'd see at maybe a
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Speaker 2: movie premiere, shining everywhere. Because you want to get every
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Speaker 2: one of those two hundred and six bones. Why is
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Speaker 2: that so critical? And what do you mean by quote excavation?
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Speaker 6: Your word so And it's important to remember when we
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Speaker 6: talk about the skeleton, there's two hundred and six bones
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Speaker 6: in the adult body. Children have many more because their
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Speaker 6: bones are growing and fused together. They fuse together throughout childhood.
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Speaker 6: So a little guy who's about three to four years
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Speaker 6: old is going to have over three hundred bones in
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Speaker 6: his body.
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Speaker 1: But what is wow really critical.
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Speaker 6: For what I use the sort of excavation is to
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Speaker 6: basically what they're going to do is remove all of
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Speaker 6: the top soil, the leaf litter, the vegetation, and try
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Speaker 6: to keep all of those little bones, all the remains intact,
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Speaker 6: and any other evidence that might be there, if there's clothing,
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Speaker 6: you know.
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Speaker 2: What I'm interpreting what you're saying to me. They move away,
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Speaker 2: the searchers move away the top soil and the leafs
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Speaker 2: and the foliage, but they keep it in case there's.
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Speaker 1: A tiny little bone in there of some sort. They do.
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Speaker 6: They'll sift through it using screens. We use two different
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Speaker 6: sized screens. We sift it twice.
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Speaker 1: I mean like a flower sister, Yeah.
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Speaker 6: Exactly, only larger and you and you put all of
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Speaker 6: the soil, top soil and debris in there. It's a
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Speaker 6: very effective method. You can find hair, strands of hair,
12:52
Speaker 6: for example. So you think about being an outside wooded
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Speaker 6: area and you're finding things like strands of hair.
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Speaker 5: That's good recovery.
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Speaker 6: But they want they want to preserve that context.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Kimberly, You're really amazing. I'm trying to drink in
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Speaker 1: every word you're saying, but you seem a.
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Speaker 2: Little too happy for me when you're describing this process,
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Speaker 2: because I know you're looking at it like a forensic anthropologist,
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Speaker 2: right I guess the way I feel when I get
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Speaker 2: that one shred of evidence that makes a case, and
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Speaker 2: like a mass murder.
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Speaker 1: I'm happy.
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Speaker 2: But right now, as you're talking our New York Control
13:35
Speaker 2: and was showing photos of Elijah View and I'm having
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Speaker 2: a hard time taking in what you're saying. As we're
13:46
Speaker 2: talking about a little talk three years old. I just
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Speaker 2: remember I could pick the twins up like this and
13:54
Speaker 2: carry them both around run around and around and around
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Speaker 2: our apartment when they were three, especially Lucy.
14:00
Speaker 1: He was born at two pounds.
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Speaker 2: But he's just a tiny little slip of a boy,
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Speaker 2: and I wonder what he endured before.
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Speaker 1: They're searching for his bounds through a flower sifter. What
14:13
Speaker 1: did you call it? It's as we use a sifter.
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Speaker 6: It's not a flower sifter, but it's an archaeological sifter.
14:21
Speaker 6: So it has mesh basically and then in different sizes
14:25
Speaker 6: about a quarter of an inch, and that allows all
14:29
Speaker 6: important evidence that's going to ultimately be able to prove,
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Speaker 6: you know, that he was hurt, that he was murdered,
14:35
Speaker 6: and be able to get those charges. That's why right now,
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Speaker 6: I'm sure they're focused on finding that cause of death
14:42
Speaker 6: and being able to interpret the scene in order to
14:45
Speaker 6: get the manner of death so that they can turn
14:48
Speaker 6: it from a death investigation into, you know, a full
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Speaker 6: homicide investigation with charges.
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Speaker 4: What started out as a search for missing boy is
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Speaker 4: now a death investigation. Now that we know the location
15:00
Speaker 4: of where Elijah was located off Christy Bob Lane in
15:04
Speaker 4: Manitou Drive, we asked that anybody with any information, if
15:09
Speaker 4: you haven't previously provided it or you think it may
15:12
Speaker 4: be useful in this investigation to please contact law enforcement.
15:23
Speaker 3: Photos of little Elijah taken at mom's boyfriend's house shows
15:28
Speaker 3: him blindfolded and bruised on a bed and standing in
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Speaker 3: a corner for hours in a soiled diaper. Jesse Vang
15:37
Speaker 3: claims this is part of his discipline plan.
15:42
Speaker 8: A deer hunter stumbles upon human skeletal remains on private
15:46
Speaker 8: property near the Manitoac Scout camp in the Town of
15:49
Speaker 8: Two Rivers and immediately calls law enforcement. The Town of
15:52
Speaker 8: Two Rivers in Manitoac County law enforcement has been searching
15:55
Speaker 8: for now four year old Elijah Vu since he went
15:58
Speaker 8: missing last February well in the care of his mother's boyfriend.
16:02
Speaker 2: In the care of his mother's boyfriend, that hardly makes sense.
16:05
Speaker 2: Straight back out to Britney Schmidt, investigative reporter and anchor
16:09
Speaker 2: wb a YTV.
16:11
Speaker 1: Brittany again, thank you for being with us. What can
16:13
Speaker 1: you tell me?
16:14
Speaker 2: And I'd like to point out that the convicted felon
16:18
Speaker 2: lover of mommy, neither he or Mommy have been charged
16:25
Speaker 2: with murder. Brittany Schmidt, could you please inform our viewers. Okay,
16:31
Speaker 2: everybody sit down, because this is not easy to hear
16:35
Speaker 2: about the lover's discipline plan for baby Elijah.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, according to the chrominal complaint. As you mentioned, these
16:43
Speaker 5: are difficult to hear. He's three years old when he's
16:46
Speaker 5: sent there to be a man that talks about how
16:49
Speaker 5: you can try to change his bad behavior. Some of
16:52
Speaker 5: those tactics used were standing in a corner for one
16:57
Speaker 5: to three hours by himself, either praying or saying the
17:01
Speaker 5: words I'm sorry mommy. The times where he was threatened
17:07
Speaker 5: if he wasn't doing that, where he's cold water, Those
17:12
Speaker 5: things that this little three year old endured when he
17:16
Speaker 5: was being taught to be a man.
17:18
Speaker 2: He was forced to say, I'm sorry, mommy, I'm sorry, mommy,
17:22
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, mommy, I'm sorry mommy.
17:24
Speaker 1: Over and over and over. And what does it mean?
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Speaker 2: Karen Stark, renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan, that
17:34
Speaker 2: the lover, the convicted fell in lover, would actually take
17:38
Speaker 2: pictures of baby Elijah covered in bruises with a blindfold on,
17:45
Speaker 2: taking pictures of it.
17:46
Speaker 7: He was proud of what he was doing, Nancy. He
17:48
Speaker 7: didn't think that there was anything wrong. He was saying
17:52
Speaker 7: that this little boy needed to respect him, and he
17:55
Speaker 7: felt like he shouldn't just fear him, but he should
17:58
Speaker 7: respect him. Who knows where he got that kind of
18:01
Speaker 7: boot camp mentality. We're talking about a three year old.
18:05
Speaker 7: I have no doubt that this was not a problem child.
18:08
Speaker 7: They just had this idea that there was something that
18:11
Speaker 7: they needed to do to him, and that's not unusual
18:15
Speaker 7: for abuse in with little children that they believed. They
18:18
Speaker 7: had these expectations that have nothing to do with the
18:22
Speaker 7: behavior actual behavior of the little boy.
18:25
Speaker 2: I don't think it had anything to do with parental expectations,
18:28
Speaker 2: because you know, I certainly don't know everything about parenting.
18:32
Speaker 2: Out to Bill Daily, former FBI and expert in forensic
18:36
Speaker 2: photography security expert Bill Daily, I just wanted them to
18:41
Speaker 2: take their bottle and to eat a jar of Gerber's baby.
18:46
Speaker 1: Food, and to you know, take their naps and learn
18:51
Speaker 1: to crawl and you know, following.
18:53
Speaker 2: My finger at That's what I wanted them to do
18:58
Speaker 2: when they were little babies. I don't know that this
19:01
Speaker 2: has anything to do with parntal expectations.
19:03
Speaker 1: Bill Daily, You've seen.
19:05
Speaker 2: It all, as have I, and I was looking at
19:07
Speaker 2: the original criminal complaint on these two pos's technical legal term.
19:15
Speaker 2: Now this is the complaint Bill as it relates to
19:18
Speaker 2: child negligence. Now, the convicted fellow lover Mommy's lover with
19:23
Speaker 2: the tattoos up to hear not judging, don't care, say said,
19:27
Speaker 2: he took a nap in the middle of the disciplinary regime,
19:31
Speaker 2: and he woke up and Elijah was gone. Okay, he's three,
19:37
Speaker 2: he's covered in bruises, and he's quote gone how many times?
19:42
Speaker 1: Bill Daily?
19:44
Speaker 2: I mean, can't they even come up with a news
19:47
Speaker 2: story just to surprise us.
19:49
Speaker 1: I went to sleep and he was gone.
19:52
Speaker 2: That's second verse, same as the first Bill Daily.
19:57
Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, Nancy, at the heart managing aspect of
19:59
Speaker 9: this is as you just went through this litany of
20:02
Speaker 9: really tortures things this little child went through, and then
20:06
Speaker 9: to have him found in a wooded area in skeletal remains,
20:11
Speaker 9: you know, it's just a little bit further about that.
20:13
Speaker 1: From an investigative.
20:14
Speaker 9: Standpoint, there are a couple of things that kind of
20:15
Speaker 9: jump out at May. One is that assuming that his
20:19
Speaker 9: remains were there to begin with, right after he perished,
20:23
Speaker 9: or assuming that he perished before he was left there,
20:27
Speaker 9: is that they are going to have to expand that
20:28
Speaker 9: search site even beyond the immediate area where the remains
20:32
Speaker 9: were found. Just because it is a wooded area where
20:35
Speaker 9: outside and there are wild animals, there are other things
20:38
Speaker 9: that could disturb even those remains. So they're going to
20:41
Speaker 9: have to expand that site just to see if there
20:43
Speaker 9: are any additional bones or clothing or anything else that
20:46
Speaker 9: may be available.
20:48
Speaker 1: The other thing on the.
20:48
Speaker 9: Investigative side and show police have already had looked at
20:52
Speaker 9: it originally probably you know, cell phone tower pings, etc. However,
20:56
Speaker 9: this gives them a very much more specific location to
20:59
Speaker 9: look for in and around the time of the child's
21:02
Speaker 9: quote disappearance, and I think that will probably help in
21:06
Speaker 9: fact if there are any cell phone things we've seen
21:09
Speaker 9: that as we know in other cases with the gilgolg
21:12
Speaker 9: Viach murderer that we've spoken about before, you know, those
21:16
Speaker 9: type of records in retrospect, knowing a limit more can
21:19
Speaker 9: be very helpful. Nonetheless, information that people may have in
21:22
Speaker 9: and around the vicinity of I'm assuming that Bill, yes.
21:25
Speaker 1: You already have hit the nail on the head.
21:29
Speaker 2: Let me just say again for the record, nobody's charged
21:32
Speaker 2: with murder. Okay, Darryl Cohen, you're the renowned defense attorney.
21:38
Speaker 1: These two idiots. Dare I go that far?
21:42
Speaker 2: Actually state this in texts, because in this criminal complaint
21:49
Speaker 2: they're quoting what these two were saying to each other,
21:53
Speaker 2: and now the boy's body is found. Look, I'm not
21:56
Speaker 2: a brain sergeant or a rocket scientist, but I can
21:58
Speaker 2: figure this out.
22:00
Speaker 1: He still equals four. Cohen.
22:01
Speaker 10: This wasn't child neglect, not at all. This was child abuse.
22:05
Speaker 10: This was an accident where this child was outside it
22:09
Speaker 10: shouldn't have been. This was I'm sorry, mommy, I'm sorry, mommy.
22:14
Speaker 10: All of this was done intentionally. Whether or not they
22:19
Speaker 10: meant to kill him at that point it doesn't matter.
22:22
Speaker 10: It does matter what type of evidence it will have,
22:26
Speaker 10: and the state will have to show exactly what they did,
22:31
Speaker 10: which is not even one thing that any decent parent
22:34
Speaker 10: would ever do.
22:36
Speaker 3: Ever, just days before Katrina Bauers planning to pick up
22:41
Speaker 3: her three year old son, boyfriend Jesse Vang reports him missing.
22:47
Speaker 3: Thang claims he took a nap and woke up to
22:50
Speaker 3: find the.
22:50
Speaker 8: Toddler gone since eleven am February twentieth, when jesse Vang
22:56
Speaker 8: called nine one one instead Elijah, who was missing. Searches
22:59
Speaker 8: for the now four year old child have taken in
23:01
Speaker 8: wetlands farmland, the West Twin River and a farm waste container.
23:06
Speaker 8: A month into the search for Elijah, his red and
23:09
Speaker 8: white plaid blanket was found about three point seven miles
23:12
Speaker 8: from the home of jesse Vang. The blanket was about
23:15
Speaker 8: three miles south of where the skeletal remains were found.
23:19
Speaker 2: To Brittany Schmidt joining US investigative reporter and anchor WBA
23:23
Speaker 2: WHITETV Brittany, thank you for being with us. Have you
23:26
Speaker 2: read this criminal complaint? It is disgusting and paragraph ten
23:32
Speaker 2: this is written by the detectives. Of course, police come
23:37
Speaker 2: through Katrina Bauer and Jesse Vang's cell phones.
23:41
Speaker 1: Completely contradicting everything they were saying.
23:44
Speaker 2: But they're talking about a visit of mommy too convicted
23:50
Speaker 2: fella lover so she could come over for sex. And
23:57
Speaker 2: the boyfriend tells her where you can't see Elijah. We'll
24:03
Speaker 2: we'll block him in the closet. We'll excuse me, we'll
24:05
Speaker 2: put him in the bathroom while we have sex. She
24:09
Speaker 2: doesn't even want to see Elijah. Did you see that, Brittany?
24:14
Speaker 5: Yep?
24:14
Speaker 1: So, yep.
24:15
Speaker 5: I read the complete criminal complaint talking about what they
24:20
Speaker 5: were going to do and where Elijah should go while
24:22
Speaker 5: they were doing it. There was another part of the
24:24
Speaker 5: complaint where she actually left her six year old daughter
24:27
Speaker 5: in the car for about an hour to go inside
24:30
Speaker 5: to his apartment to basically do the same thing.
24:34
Speaker 1: And when she was.
24:34
Speaker 5: Left in the car alone for about an hour, it
24:37
Speaker 5: was at nighttime. It was like thirty four degrees here
24:40
Speaker 5: in Wisconsin, which is just above freezing, so a very
24:43
Speaker 5: cold night for a six year old to be left
24:45
Speaker 5: in a car for an hour again to do the
24:48
Speaker 5: same thing that she went there that night to do
24:51
Speaker 5: with Jesse Bang.
24:52
Speaker 2: Around three point thirteen am, according to the criminal complaint,
24:56
Speaker 2: a photo shows Elijah lying on a bit with a
25:00
Speaker 2: blindfold over his eyes, bruising on his jaw and neck,
25:06
Speaker 2: bruising on his upper left arm. Mommy confirms she took
25:11
Speaker 2: the picture and then deleted it. Her phone leaves two rivers,
25:17
Speaker 2: leaving her boy there four thirty a m. The record
25:23
Speaker 2: low was twenty seven degrees the high thirty six Other
25:30
Speaker 2: photos that we find in Facebook messenger shows little Elijah
25:35
Speaker 2: standing in the corner wearing only a diaper, his hands
25:39
Speaker 2: in a praying position.
25:41
Speaker 1: The diaper is full and it's.
25:43
Speaker 2: Taken at Jesse Wang's apartment, Bill Delly, does it ever
25:52
Speaker 2: end with people like mommy and her convicted fellon lover?
25:57
Speaker 2: Now Elijah is dead, and yes, let me say again,
26:02
Speaker 2: for legal reasons, they're not charged with his death.
26:06
Speaker 1: What about it, Bill?
26:08
Speaker 9: For them to claim that a three year old disappeared
26:11
Speaker 9: out of nowhere, found his way out of a home
26:14
Speaker 9: through a neighborhood, and ultimately found his way to three
26:18
Speaker 9: miles away into a wooded area. If that's the suggestion,
26:22
Speaker 9: it certainly doesn't seem to make sense to me from
26:24
Speaker 9: an investigative standpoint. I think a lot of other things that.
26:27
Speaker 1: We need to be looked at.
26:28
Speaker 9: We talked before about the forensics, about the digital forensics,
26:31
Speaker 9: and that footprint unfortunately taught so much time has passed
26:35
Speaker 9: with regard to gathering soil samples from vehicles and shoes, etc.
26:41
Speaker 9: That unfortunately, that ship may have sailed. But still I
26:44
Speaker 9: think there's a number of investigative steps they can take
26:47
Speaker 9: and hopefully kind of button up this case and bring
26:49
Speaker 9: it to justice.
26:50
Speaker 1: Okay, what about it, Darryl Cohen Nancy.
26:53
Speaker 10: There are no words, no words at all to explain
26:57
Speaker 10: what has gone on in this poor child's life. A
27:02
Speaker 10: child being made to be worse than he could His
27:06
Speaker 10: life was worse than ever anyone could imagine. Why in
27:11
Speaker 10: the world they would want him to be a quote
27:14
Speaker 10: man is beyond belief. But acting like a little boy,
27:19
Speaker 10: what little boys do? They do wonderful things and they're
27:23
Speaker 10: exasperating and you love it. But what he went through
27:29
Speaker 10: is just a microcosm of what these two people, once
27:33
Speaker 10: they are charged, will be dealing with in the legal system.
27:37
Speaker 10: And you and I both know if someone hurts a
27:40
Speaker 10: child and they're incarcerated, it's not going to be good
27:44
Speaker 10: for them, regardless of what happens in the courtroom.
27:47
Speaker 4: Last Saturday, Sheriff Hartway called me immediately upon learning his
27:53
Speaker 4: deputies were responding to investigate a report of skeletal remains
27:58
Speaker 4: found by someone in the town of Two Rivers with
28:00
Speaker 4: night falling near The entire area was secured well, a
28:06
Speaker 4: variety of resources were gathered to investigate. Ultimately, a forensic
28:10
Speaker 4: anthropologist with the Wisconsin State Crime Laboratories was able to
28:16
Speaker 4: confirm a skull and bones as human remains.
28:21
Speaker 3: As authorities investigate the disappearance of Elijah, View, mom Kad
28:27
Speaker 3: Bauer and boyfriend Jesse Vang are arrested charged with child neglect.
28:36
Speaker 2: In the last days, the remains a little three year
28:39
Speaker 2: old Elijah View found in a densely wooded area with
28:44
Speaker 2: me and all Star panel to make sense of what
28:45
Speaker 2: we know right now, we've been talking about the criminal
28:48
Speaker 2: complaint that led to mommy and our convicted fellow lover's
28:52
Speaker 2: arrest on child neglect.
28:54
Speaker 1: To doctor Aaron Kimberley, joining.
28:57
Speaker 2: US forensic anthropologist and director Florida is teet forensic anthropology.
29:02
Speaker 2: Doctor Kimberly, I want to talk to you about cod
29:05
Speaker 2: cause of death. You were describing earlier that there.
29:09
Speaker 1: Will be an elaborate excavation process.
29:12
Speaker 2: To try and get all of the over three hundred
29:17
Speaker 2: bones that are in a child's body, a child of
29:19
Speaker 2: three years old. What can you tell us about potential
29:24
Speaker 2: discovery of cause of death?
29:26
Speaker 6: Well, it's going to be critical in this case in
29:29
Speaker 6: order to explain what actually happened to him. They will
29:34
Speaker 6: go through each of those little bones, each of those
29:38
Speaker 6: little remains, meticulously clean them, X ray, look at them,
29:43
Speaker 6: look at them with microscopes and try to assess if
29:46
Speaker 6: there are any injuries. And there's two important things that
29:50
Speaker 6: they'll be looking for. One, of course, is that injuries
29:53
Speaker 6: that occurred at the time of death that would explain
29:55
Speaker 6: the cause of death. And then there would be looking
29:58
Speaker 6: for any signs abuse, neglect, malnutrition, prior injuries, maybe in
30:04
Speaker 6: different stages of healing that will show a pattern of abuse.
30:08
Speaker 6: And you see that a lot in children like this.
30:11
Speaker 6: That could be in the month preceding his death, or
30:14
Speaker 6: it could be over the three years of his life,
30:17
Speaker 6: and so all of that helps to show that pattern
30:20
Speaker 6: of what he went through.
30:28
Speaker 2: Listen to Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on America's number
30:31
Speaker 2: one podcast network, iHeart open your free iHeart app and
30:36
Speaker 2: search Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
30:46
Speaker 2: And here's the concern for the prosecution. Daryl Cohen Darald Cohen,
30:50
Speaker 2: now high profile defense attorney, but former felony prosecutor in
30:55
Speaker 2: inner city Atlanta. Darryl here's the thing, this is why
31:00
Speaker 2: we need doctor Aaron Kermerley so much. The defense is
31:06
Speaker 2: going to claim because they're him in they're trapped by
31:12
Speaker 2: the two defendant's previous statements. They can't go anywhere except
31:15
Speaker 2: to say, oh, I went to sleep.
31:17
Speaker 1: And I woke up and he was gone.
31:20
Speaker 2: Without a cod that could effectively be argued to a jury.
31:25
Speaker 2: Yes I was mistreating him, Yes I'm neglectful, but I
31:30
Speaker 2: really did go to sleep and he wandered out. That
31:34
Speaker 2: it could actually succeed if we can't get a cod
31:40
Speaker 2: because it could be argued he just wandered out and
31:42
Speaker 2: died in the elements.
31:43
Speaker 10: Nancy, that's true, that could happen. But they will both
31:48
Speaker 10: assuming that's the case, assuming a jury says not guilty.
31:53
Speaker 10: They will not say not guilty on child abuse. They
31:57
Speaker 10: will not say not guilty on all of the sour charges.
32:01
Speaker 10: So sometimes you get mad, but then you really have
32:05
Speaker 10: to get even think al Capone, who is the worst
32:08
Speaker 10: human being in the world during his time, and what
32:11
Speaker 10: are they getting on murder?
32:12
Speaker 5: Nah?
32:13
Speaker 10: Tax evasion? But it's served.
32:15
Speaker 2: Okay, Darryl, no offense because you were a great prosecutor
32:19
Speaker 2: and a great defense attorney. But could you please stop
32:23
Speaker 2: the gibberish Okay, telling me that, uh, let's wait on
32:29
Speaker 2: jail house justice. Okay, you know where you can stick
32:32
Speaker 2: that to coin a legal phrase. And now you're saying, hey,
32:36
Speaker 2: let's wait. If we can't get him on murder, maybe
32:40
Speaker 2: we can get him on tax evasion. Okay, head blowing
32:43
Speaker 2: off right now. But that said, let me give a
32:47
Speaker 2: more effective approach. The prosecution could consider felony murder. They're
32:54
Speaker 2: already charged with felony child neglect, and during the commission
32:59
Speaker 2: of that felony, a death occurs, whether intended or not.
33:05
Speaker 2: Felony murder in many jurisdictions carries the same sentence as
33:11
Speaker 2: malice or murder.
33:12
Speaker 1: One murder.
33:14
Speaker 2: I'm trying to talk legal practicalities, not I don't even
33:19
Speaker 2: know what you're saying. You're like you're from a different planet.
33:21
Speaker 2: Let's wait for a tax evasion charge. What about a
33:24
Speaker 2: felony murder charge?
33:25
Speaker 5: What about that?
33:26
Speaker 1: Dear old Cohen, Come on you imagine in the middle
33:28
Speaker 1: of the road with me. Get out of the weeds.
33:30
Speaker 10: I'm in the middle of the road. You apparently are
33:33
Speaker 10: in the weeds. You don't like these people, and I
33:35
Speaker 10: don't blame you, but I will say this, I don't
33:38
Speaker 10: like it.
33:39
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if I like them or love them.
33:42
Speaker 1: The child is dead.
33:43
Speaker 2: And here is a plausible way to get a murder conviction.
33:48
Speaker 10: That's a possible way of getting a murder conviction, depending
33:51
Speaker 10: on what the circumstances are after the investigation. As to
33:56
Speaker 10: how this child died. If it can be proven that
33:59
Speaker 10: this child and was zen place where he was found,
34:03
Speaker 10: that's one thing. If it appears in the physical and
34:06
Speaker 10: forensic evidence shows that he wandered away, then finding them
34:11
Speaker 10: guilty of murder is going to be a lot more difficult.
34:14
Speaker 10: But being difficult doesn't mean you can't get even in
34:17
Speaker 10: another way. No, I don't suggest tax evasion.
34:21
Speaker 1: I don't want to get even. I want justice.
34:24
Speaker 2: Brittany Schmidt joining me anchor investigative reporter, Brittany, Where was
34:30
Speaker 2: the blanket found in relation to the remains, because that
34:35
Speaker 2: is a way for me to show he didn't just
34:38
Speaker 2: wander off.
34:39
Speaker 1: Where was the blanket? Brittany?
34:40
Speaker 5: It was just a few miles away from where the
34:42
Speaker 5: remains were found, so about a two minute three minute drive.
34:47
Speaker 5: We even did the drive from where he was reported
34:49
Speaker 5: missing at the apartment complex to where the profound Jena
34:54
Speaker 5: Horse was blocked off by police and that was about
34:57
Speaker 5: a four minute drive for us.
34:58
Speaker 2: But was found out in the the woods. Was it
35:00
Speaker 2: in a dumpster? Where was the blanket?
35:03
Speaker 1: It was out in a field, so you would have.
35:05
Speaker 2: To think, oh, was the field near a roadway, Brittany Schmidt.
35:10
Speaker 5: It was near a road.
35:10
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, so the steak can make a reasonable argument
35:15
Speaker 2: the blanket was thrown out of a car. If you
35:18
Speaker 2: believe this child wandered away in the freezing snow eleven
35:22
Speaker 2: inches with nothing but a blanket, wearing a dipe Ooh,
35:25
Speaker 2: that's a good question as to whether he was wearing clothes.
35:29
Speaker 1: If clothing was.
35:30
Speaker 2: Found on his remains, that's hard to believe that he
35:35
Speaker 2: would walk out in the snow, discard his blanket in
35:39
Speaker 2: one place, and then walk another mile plus barefoot.
35:44
Speaker 1: Hey, Brittany, did the.
35:45
Speaker 2: Remains were they found with any clothing or shoes?
35:49
Speaker 5: We tried to ask that question. We did not get
35:52
Speaker 5: those details. But I'm in the community that it's a
35:55
Speaker 5: very popular road where he was reported missing on. So
35:58
Speaker 5: when talking to community, they said if they were to
36:01
Speaker 5: see a toddler walking, they would have seen them. So
36:03
Speaker 5: it was about a four mile trip from the apartment
36:07
Speaker 5: to where the remains were found.
36:09
Speaker 3: A potential break in the search for missing Elijah view
36:14
Speaker 3: as human remains are found on a rural Wisconsin property.
36:18
Speaker 3: Has Elijah been found?
36:21
Speaker 2: The remains of this little top boy haven't been found.
36:26
Speaker 2: We don't know a lot of details yet. Was he
36:28
Speaker 2: wearing the clothes in which he.
36:30
Speaker 1: Was reportedly last seen.
36:31
Speaker 2: You got to consider the source where we got that information.
36:35
Speaker 2: He was last thing wearing gray pants, a long sleeved
36:38
Speaker 2: dark shirt, red and green dinosaur shoes, and carrying the
36:41
Speaker 2: red and white plaid blanket that was found several miles
36:44
Speaker 2: away from the home.
36:46
Speaker 1: We know that skeletal.
36:47
Speaker 2: Remains have been found in a wooded area about three
36:50
Speaker 2: miles from Vang. That is the boyfriend's home.
36:58
Speaker 1: Vang's home.
37:00
Speaker 2: We have been got We've gotten confirmation through DNA testing
37:04
Speaker 2: that the skeletal remains are Elijah view to doctor Aaron
37:11
Speaker 2: Kimberly joining us for instic anthropologist. Doctor Kimberly, the reason
37:18
Speaker 2: I'm asking if the remains were totally skeletonized, which we
37:22
Speaker 2: understand they were, does that make sense that they're skeletonized
37:27
Speaker 2: after about six plus months?
37:29
Speaker 1: Number one? And number two.
37:32
Speaker 2: If the remains are skeletonized, that means no soft tissue,
37:35
Speaker 2: no internal organs, no eyes, no skin. So we won't
37:39
Speaker 2: be able to look at the neck to determine if
37:42
Speaker 2: there was a sign of strangulation. We won't be able
37:45
Speaker 2: to look at the eyes to determine if there were
37:47
Speaker 2: burst Particia, it's going to be hard unless you've got
37:52
Speaker 2: broken bones, or unless you've got a nick from a
37:56
Speaker 2: knife or a bullet, which I doubt we're not going
37:59
Speaker 2: to be able to get cause of death.
38:01
Speaker 1: Without soft tissue. Could you explain that, doctor Camerly.
38:03
Speaker 6: You're right, they're going to be looking at each individual
38:06
Speaker 6: bone and trying to assess if there are any fractures.
38:10
Speaker 6: The most likely or most expected, you know, type of
38:13
Speaker 6: injuries would be blunt trauma because of that photo you
38:15
Speaker 6: already see he had blunt trauma. But they'll look for
38:20
Speaker 6: even fracture lines, hairline fractures or breaks, and then they'll
38:25
Speaker 6: be looking for those that occurred at the time of death.
38:28
Speaker 6: Obviously there's no healing on those injuries, but there may
38:31
Speaker 6: be other injuries from the months or years before that
38:34
Speaker 6: that show a systematic or pattern of abuse. So they'll
38:38
Speaker 6: be looking for both of those types of injuries.
38:42
Speaker 2: Two renowned psychologist Karen Stark Karen, I've been looking at
38:48
Speaker 2: the text between these two ghules straight from Hell, and
38:52
Speaker 2: they're texting back and forth, and the mother, the biological
38:56
Speaker 2: mother of Elijah Vie, says, I I don't want him
39:00
Speaker 2: to hate you, just fear you.
39:02
Speaker 7: How could we make sense out of anything that she said, Nancy,
39:05
Speaker 7: Because this is somebody who sent her a little boy there,
39:08
Speaker 7: and here's a little boy who couldn't be a little
39:11
Speaker 7: boy who was treated like a terrorist. He was actually
39:15
Speaker 7: subjected to those kinds of tactics where he stood cold water,
39:20
Speaker 7: a diepy all day. This is a horrible, horrible example
39:24
Speaker 7: of parenting. It's abuse, and so I can't even begin
39:29
Speaker 7: to imagine what the outcome will be. But we hope
39:33
Speaker 7: that they get what they deserve and justice served.
39:36
Speaker 2: He also writes to the bio mom quote, he did
39:40
Speaker 2: fear me, but he didn't respect me. Now I'm making
39:45
Speaker 2: him a three year old top boy respect me. I
39:51
Speaker 2: wonder how much respect he's going to get behind bars
39:54
Speaker 2: in the pen. Brittany Schmidt joining us, WBA y Brittany
39:58
Speaker 2: where are these two now? I'm referring to this guy
40:03
Speaker 2: Vang and mommy.
40:05
Speaker 5: Right now they're sitting in the Manitoau County jail.
40:07
Speaker 2: So they're getting three hots and a cot while we
40:10
Speaker 2: are trying to We're standing by to find out if
40:16
Speaker 2: all three hundred plus bones of Elijah Vue have been found.
40:21
Speaker 2: If you have information about what happened to this beautiful boy.
40:27
Speaker 2: Just three call eight four four to six seven sixty
40:32
Speaker 2: six four eight repeat eight four four two six seven
40:37
Speaker 2: sixty six four eight. We stop now and remember American
40:43
Speaker 2: Hero Lieutenant Dustin Demante Bristol, p D.
40:47
Speaker 1: Thirty five, shot and killed in a line of duty.
40:52
Speaker 2: Lieutenant Demonte survived by his wife who is expecting a baby, Laura,
41:00
Speaker 2: daughter Phoebe, and son Porter. American Hero Lieutenant Dustin Demonte.
41:09
Speaker 2: Thank you to our guests for being with us and
41:12
Speaker 2: helping us wade through the discovery of the remains of Elijah.
41:19
Speaker 2: You fancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend.