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Larry Legend · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:00
SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to another classy episode of Pittsburgh Sports Memories with uh I'm your co-host, Steve Wirt.
0:07
SPEAKER_03: And as usual, I'm joined by I'm Tim Hannon.
0:10
SPEAKER_03: And on this episode, we're gonna talk about a guy that was truly a class act.
0:15
SPEAKER_03: And uh, you know, I'm not talking about uh Tim here.
0:19
SPEAKER_03: Although Tim is a class act.
0:21
SPEAKER_05: We we should really do every episode about me and how much of a class act I am.
0:26
SPEAKER_05: That would that would generate a bunch of uh downloads, I'm sure, for the podcast.
0:31
SPEAKER_03: People would love to hear about that every every uh soon.
0:34
SPEAKER_05: They would.
0:35
SPEAKER_05: They would.
0:35
SPEAKER_05: Maybe we'll make that like a bonus episode that people can pay for behind a fire paywall or something.
0:40
SPEAKER_05: A paywall, yeah.
0:41
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
0:58
SPEAKER_03: So um on this episode, we're gonna dive into uh Larry Fitzgerald and uh his greatness on the field.
1:04
SPEAKER_03: Um he he played at Pitt, obviously, and uh he played a very long career in the NFL.
1:10
SPEAKER_03: And um I I don't know if anybody's noticed this, especially in Pittsburgh, but uh wide receiver seems to be a position filled with um, I don't know, malcontents and you know narcissists and you know uh wretched sky, uh what is it, wretched hive of scum and villainy, as Obi-Wan Kenobi would say.
1:32
SPEAKER_03: Um but uh Larry took a different path.
1:34
SPEAKER_03: He he he handled himself with class and um you know properly, I would say.
1:39
SPEAKER_03: And uh he he really he was in some tough circumstances in his career, obviously losing the Super Bowl and playing on some pretty bad teams, but I I haven't heard him complain at all, but um, we'll get all into that next.
1:54
SPEAKER_03: So starting uh Larry Fitzgerald grew up in uh Minnesota, and uh believe it or not, uh he was actually a ball boy for the Minnesota Vikings.
2:04
SPEAKER_03: And uh he actually worked under coach Dennis Green.
2:07
SPEAKER_03: And uh I think Dennis Green knew he who he was and he didn't let him off the hook.
2:13
SPEAKER_05: But but uh Dennis Green will never live that down.
2:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:18
SPEAKER_05: I mean I know I know he's since passed away, but I mean that's just what like everybody will always he was actually a really good coach.
2:25
SPEAKER_05: Everybody will always remember that rant.
2:27
SPEAKER_03: I think he coached at Stanford at one point, also.
2:30
SPEAKER_03: Like he was successful in college and very successful NFL career.
2:34
SPEAKER_03: Unfortunately, he never made a Super Bowl for him.
2:37
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he didn't have that Vikings team that went 15-1 and probably should have at least made the Super Bowl.
2:42
SPEAKER_03: But um that's what happened.
2:45
SPEAKER_03: Um Pitzgerald, uh he played a high school football in Minnesota, and I don't know if a lot of people remember this.
2:52
SPEAKER_03: Um for some reason he didn't meet the qualifications to play in college out of that high school.
3:00
SPEAKER_03: So when that happens and Pitt wants you as a uh player, they send you to Valley Forge Military Academy, and he spent a year there getting himself eligible.
3:10
SPEAKER_03: Um LaShawn McCoy did much the same thing, but I think LaShawn McCoy was more because he injured himself his senior year of high school, so he needed almost like a year to rehab.
3:20
SPEAKER_03: But um Larry did for whatever reason his his uh grades, his eight, whatever is and I don't know what scores weren't proper, but he did a year and uh and that will come back to kind of haunt Pitt later, quite honestly.
3:34
SPEAKER_03: Um so he he comes uh to Pitt in 2002 and that's his um freshman season.
3:41
SPEAKER_03: And we're not thinking much, right, Tim, of his freshman season.
3:46
SPEAKER_05: I mean I I I didn't I remember that year.
3:49
SPEAKER_05: You know, I I r I remember a couple of things about that year.
3:52
SPEAKER_05: One was that um there was a lot of optimism because they had they had had a good season in 2000, they had a weird season in 2001 where they started off poorly but then went on a real hot streak at the end.
4:05
SPEAKER_05: And you thought 2002 would be like the year they put it all together.
4:08
SPEAKER_05: So I remember being optimistic about that year, but I had no idea who Larry Fitzgerald was until the game that you're probably gonna talk about, Texas AM game.
4:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and um I do believe uh Rot Rutherford was the starting quarterback of my bullet, yes, for these next two seasons.
4:27
SPEAKER_03: So he he kind of had a little bit more of a seasoned quarterback, and I think that comes into play later also, if you think about it.
4:36
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, Rod you know was a good quarterback, strong armed.
4:41
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, maybe you know, he he was a little inaccurate at times, but he definitely had one of the strongest arms.
4:48
SPEAKER_03: He was out of parry, so very good.
4:51
SPEAKER_03: And um he actually ends up playing that Texas AM game.
4:55
SPEAKER_03: I think he has 10 catches.
4:56
SPEAKER_03: Let's see, yeah, 10 catches for 103 yards, and it was a 14 to 12 loss.
5:01
SPEAKER_03: And um, do you do you want to explain how they missed an extra point, Tim, or do you want me to explain how Pitt missed an extra point?
5:09
SPEAKER_03: Because I lived it.
5:11
SPEAKER_03: I I remember I was sitting right at that end zone, and that was a poorly officiated game.
5:15
SPEAKER_03: There was one where they scored a they they called a touchdown for Texas AM, and the guy clearly wasn't into the end zone.
5:22
SPEAKER_03: Because I remember when we started that game, we were like right on the goal line.
5:26
SPEAKER_03: I was like, well, if there's any plays close to the goal line, we'll be able to really see if he was in and out, in or out.
5:31
SPEAKER_03: It was a I don't think it was all that close.
5:33
SPEAKER_03: The guy was down at the one or the half yard line and they called him in.
5:37
SPEAKER_05: So Yeah, it was a pack, I want to say like a pack ten officiating crew and or pack twelve or whatever it was called.
5:44
SPEAKER_03: No, it was it was the it was their conference.
5:47
SPEAKER_03: They brought their own officials as so it was a big, big it was a big 12 or whatever that conference is.
5:56
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, either way, the the official the officiating was weird because Pitt tries to run for the extra point to swing and gate formation where like only the center lines up over the ball, everybody else lines up way far away, and then they all run into their rightful positions.
6:13
SPEAKER_05: It's supposed to confuse the defense.
6:15
SPEAKER_05: We we talked about this in our like Pitt Terrible Losses episode.
6:19
SPEAKER_05: Um and they call a penalty on Pitt after they make the extra point, then they call another penalty on the second extra point, then on the third extra point they miss.
6:27
SPEAKER_03: And the official inning was bad, but also like after the second one just scrapped the well yeah, after I mean let me describe what happened.
6:37
SPEAKER_03: After the one extra point, the official watched the play goes down, and it was the guy, who's the guy on the side?
6:44
SPEAKER_03: The line judge, I guess.
6:45
SPEAKER_03: The guy who spots the ball, if it's on his side of the field, walks over to the head official, talks to him for like 30 seconds, and they throw a flag.
6:55
SPEAKER_03: It's like, if it's a flag, dude, throw the flag and then talk about it.
6:58
SPEAKER_03: You can always pick it up.
7:00
SPEAKER_03: And the problem was was, if I remember correctly, somebody was wearing a number that was ineligible, and when they did the swinging gate, they ended up at the end of the line, and that number could not be at the end of the line.
7:16
SPEAKER_03: So at that point, you know, either have that guy change positions, jer well, I guess he can't change jersey numbers in the middle of a game, but it was just ridiculous.
7:27
SPEAKER_05: Well, and Pitt Pitt Pitt had run that formation the whole season before that.
7:31
SPEAKER_05: They'd run it the week before that.
7:33
SPEAKER_05: There wasn't anything new.
7:35
SPEAKER_05: It it it felt like I was at that game too, Steve, and what it felt like was these refs saw something weird and they're just like, no, no, no, you can't do that.
7:45
SPEAKER_05: And and didn't understand that Pitt had been doing that all along.
7:50
SPEAKER_05: Now, whether or not Pitt had been doing that all along and no one else caught the wrong jersey number, and maybe these refs were just more on it than the other refs, I I don't know.
7:59
SPEAKER_05: I I I blame the refs, but I also, like I said, I kind of blame Walt Harris for not adjusting.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:05
SPEAKER_05: Well, and did we really have to run that?
8:07
SPEAKER_05: It's like you nobody was fooled.
8:09
SPEAKER_05: It's an extra point.
8:10
SPEAKER_05: Like it's not like a field goal, like where you try, like, are we gonna do a fake or are we not?
8:14
SPEAKER_05: Just just kick the extra point.
8:16
SPEAKER_05: Don't don't try to get all fancy.
8:18
SPEAKER_05: And that that literally cost Pitt the game.
8:21
SPEAKER_05: And I think that overshadowed because I remember sitting at the game, like, who's number one?
8:26
SPEAKER_05: Like this kid for Pitt number one, he's catching everything.
8:30
SPEAKER_05: And I was thinking that during the game, after the game, everybody was just ticked off about the the swinging gate controversy, and and it kind of overshadowed, hey, this this kid's pretty good.
8:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and that that was a that was a shame.
8:44
SPEAKER_03: I do remember people on the radio saying, oh, you know, Larry Fisherwood had a good game, they're freshman wide receiver, but nobody nobody really talked much about it.
8:54
SPEAKER_03: And it's kind of funny because he really goes on a tear that season.
9:00
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's kind of kind of odd.
9:03
SPEAKER_03: Like, I have I have some of the stats written down, like six receptions and three touchdowns against Kent State.
9:10
SPEAKER_03: Like he almost had as many touchdowns as he had receptions.
9:15
SPEAKER_03: I mean, which is just that that's really wild.
9:19
SPEAKER_03: And uh I it's just Larry.
9:21
SPEAKER_03: Uh I I don't think people had figured out how good he was yet.
9:25
SPEAKER_03: In Ball State, he had three receptions um and uh I I think touchdown.
9:29
SPEAKER_03: He had a couple touchdowns in that game.
9:32
SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, they they had beaten Virginia Tech, who was, I do believe, ranked.
9:37
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what they were ranked that season.
9:39
SPEAKER_05: They were third.
9:41
SPEAKER_03: Yes, they were third.
9:42
SPEAKER_03: And that was was that that that was in Blacksburg.
9:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:48
SPEAKER_03: So that was a big win.
9:49
SPEAKER_03: Because I remember a couple seasons before Pitt had slowly been getting close to beating them, and they never could quite, you know, pull it off for that reason.
9:59
SPEAKER_05: They beat them, they so they did beat them in 2001.
10:03
SPEAKER_03: They did beat them the year before.
10:05
SPEAKER_05: But but what you're thinking of is the Michael Vick years.
10:09
SPEAKER_05: Where they where they would come really close and then not quite get over the hump.
10:14
SPEAKER_03: Well, even the there was that year where they missed RJ English wide open.
10:17
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that was 2000.
10:19
SPEAKER_05: So 2000 was that was in Blacksburg.
10:22
SPEAKER_05: RJ English is wide open to win the game, and and and whoever was terminar quarterback, he overthrew them.
10:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:29
SPEAKER_03: And then I guess you're right.
10:31
SPEAKER_03: 2001, that's right.
10:32
SPEAKER_03: Well, that was a game we were supposed to lose, and we ended up winning.
10:35
SPEAKER_05: At home.
10:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because I went to that game too.
10:38
SPEAKER_03: I remember that.
10:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:39
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and then 2002 we beat them in Blacksburg.
10:42
SPEAKER_05: But 2002 was a bigger upset.
10:44
SPEAKER_05: 2001, they weren't ranked like number three in the nation.
10:47
SPEAKER_05: And and and we were playing them on their field.
10:49
SPEAKER_05: In 2002, that was yeah, that was a huge, huge upset.
10:53
SPEAKER_03: And they didn't I don't think Michael Vick was still their quarterback by then.
10:56
SPEAKER_03: I'm pretty sure.
10:57
SPEAKER_05: No, he had gone to the NFL by then.
10:59
SPEAKER_05: But they were still, again, the number three team in the country.
11:02
SPEAKER_05: And uh Larry has a really good game in that game.
11:06
SPEAKER_05: In fact, he has a really amazing catch to, I believe, tie the game in like the third quarter.
11:11
SPEAKER_05: It was like 21-14, and he makes an over-the-shoulder, I think, catch in the end zone.
11:16
SPEAKER_03: So Larry makes a great catch against Virginia Tech, and it's all peaches and cream for all of us Bit fans.
11:23
SPEAKER_03: We think, wow, we're gonna win tons of national championships with this guy.
11:27
SPEAKER_03: Maybe not.
11:28
SPEAKER_03: But what they do end up doing is they end up going to the insight.com bowl.
11:33
SPEAKER_03: And uh, I think we're still trying to figure out what insight.com does.
11:37
SPEAKER_03: I think we've I've asked this question many times.
11:40
SPEAKER_03: They do something with computers, they provide insight to what you need to know about the computers, yeah.
11:49
SPEAKER_03: Maybe the meaning of life.
11:50
SPEAKER_03: That would be more, that would be more fascinating if they did that.
11:54
SPEAKER_03: But he he gets a, you know, and that's really I think that's more of his coming out party than even the Virginia Tech game.
12:04
SPEAKER_03: And I I know that's uh definitely something we have a uh we played this before, but we'll play this catch again just because it's so much fun.
12:13
SPEAKER_03: So in the first quarter of the game, it's nothing nothing, and Larry Fitzgerald decides to arrive on the scene.
12:20
SPEAKER_03: And the blitz of Rutherford picked up nicely.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: Has time to fire one deep to Sheryl open.
12:26
SPEAKER_04: A council.
12:29
SPEAKER_04: Touchdown.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: Kidding me.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: There he is, folks.
12:35
SPEAKER_01: That's the guy.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: That is a true freshman.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Look at this, folks.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: That is a fantastic football catch.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: That's Jerry Rice reincarnating.
12:48
SPEAKER_03: So as you can hear, Bill Curry was really, really impressed.
12:53
SPEAKER_03: As he should be.
12:55
SPEAKER_03: Because it was a really impressive catch by Larry.
12:58
SPEAKER_03: And uh it kind of opened up the game.
13:00
SPEAKER_03: And I didn't realize, like I was reading some of the summer, like that game was tied at halftime.
13:05
SPEAKER_03: And Pitts defense kind of took over in the the second half and um, you know, won the game basically for him by shutting down a Steven Jackson.
13:15
SPEAKER_03: And uh he was a pretty good running back.
13:17
SPEAKER_03: Even in the NFL, he's a pretty good running back.
13:19
SPEAKER_03: And uh Pitts defense kind of shut them down, and their offense scored some points.
13:23
SPEAKER_03: I think even Tyler Palco scored some points in the second half because they they brought in Tyler Palco for a little bit.
13:30
SPEAKER_03: But uh, you know, d do you remember uh anything, Any other thoughts about the insight.com bowl, Pim.
13:38
SPEAKER_05: I remember how exciting it was when we had the insight.com victory parade through the streets of downtown Pittsburgh.
13:44
SPEAKER_05: Remember they had to close like all the businesses that day.
13:47
SPEAKER_05: It was a big deal.
13:48
SPEAKER_05: You were very you felt very insightful.
13:51
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
13:52
SPEAKER_05: I mean, man, I'll talk about a party for that one.
13:57
SPEAKER_05: No, uh he you're right.
13:58
SPEAKER_05: That was that was definitely, I mean, uh bull bowl games I feel like bowl games back then were a little more relevant than they are today.
14:08
SPEAKER_05: Not not a ton, but that was still in the days where you had fewer options of things to watch.
14:14
SPEAKER_05: Right.
14:14
SPEAKER_05: And so if there was a bowl game on ESPN, it tended to draw a pretty good audience because it's like, ooh, a football game during the holidays that we can all sit down and watch.
14:23
SPEAKER_05: And so that was pretty big exposure at the time for him.
14:27
SPEAKER_05: So I think you're accurate when you say that kind of like puts him on the map.
14:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and especially like Bill, you can think of Bill Curry and you know, my I think it was my goal, like just ranting and raving about him.
14:38
SPEAKER_03: And like I've said before, like the next season in 2003 for because Pitts always trying to hawk season tickets, you know, they they had him on the side of a bus, you know, flights taking off, you know, early.
14:49
SPEAKER_03: And it was just a it's a great catch.
14:51
SPEAKER_03: He literally goes ladder, one of the best catches I've ever seen.
14:55
SPEAKER_03: And he's an amazing athlete.
14:57
SPEAKER_03: And balls in the air, I think he's one of the best jump ball receivers, if not the best jump ball receiver.
15:04
SPEAKER_03: He's probably better.
15:05
SPEAKER_03: Chris Carter was really good at them.
15:07
SPEAKER_03: He's better than Chris Carter at that.
15:10
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I feel I feel like Calvin Johnson's the only other receiver that I've seen that even you could, you know, that you could make the argument that could be better or as good.
15:20
SPEAKER_05: Um, but you're right.
15:21
SPEAKER_03: But he doesn't have the wingspan that Calvin Johnson had.
15:24
SPEAKER_03: I I mean Calvin Johnson just had really he was like Scottie Pippen out there playing football with those really long arms.
15:32
SPEAKER_03: But Calvin Johnson was really good too.
15:35
SPEAKER_03: And he beat uh he when remember when he played for Georgia Tech and he whooped it up on WVU?
15:41
SPEAKER_03: I remember that bowl game.
15:42
SPEAKER_05: Calvin Johnson.
15:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they couldn't stop him.
15:45
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
15:46
SPEAKER_03: But speaking of WVU, so we we're gonna move on to the 2003 season.
15:52
SPEAKER_03: So this is a sophomore year, and I'm sure there'll be many more years to come, right, Tim?
15:58
SPEAKER_03: Well, he's only in the sophomore, so I mean Yeah, I mean he'll just he's just gonna be there forever.
16:03
SPEAKER_03: And Pit Pitts like has this great season, and um it's kind of like what am I trying to like let's see, their their record ended up being eight and five, which was a little disappointing, but they were in the mix to win the big east that year, and kind of the background of that, there was a lot going on behind the scenes because believe it or not, back then, like moving conferences was never heard of, it was unheard of.
16:35
SPEAKER_03: And this is and the year before, like Miami, originally it was gonna be what?
16:41
SPEAKER_03: Miami, Syracuse, and somebody else going to the ACC, right?
16:46
SPEAKER_03: Or I remember it.
16:47
SPEAKER_05: Well, I mean, uh I don't know who originally it was gonna be.
16:50
SPEAKER_05: I know it ended up being Miami and Virginia and Boston and Boston College, and eventually Boston College, Miami and Virginia Tech immediately Boston College, like a year or two later.
16:59
SPEAKER_03: Well, I don't think Virginia Tech was originally and they kind of sued their way into the deal because I think Miami had wanted Syracuse or something like that.
17:08
SPEAKER_03: But anyway, um so this uh that's kind of the off-the-field stuff.
17:14
SPEAKER_03: The big East is breaking up and it it's like ends up being this huge like thing with Pitt because Pitt's a good team and they're in competition to win this conference, and you know, but Pitt unfortunately loses some games.
17:35
SPEAKER_03: Um they did lose to Notre Dame that year, which was a big that was uh they lost badly.
17:41
SPEAKER_03: Well, not badly, 20 to 14.
17:43
SPEAKER_03: That was at home.
17:45
SPEAKER_05: That wasn't as close as the score indicated.
17:47
SPEAKER_03: That was a bad loss.
17:48
SPEAKER_03: And they lost to Toledo.
17:50
SPEAKER_03: That was the shocking.
17:51
SPEAKER_03: Like they came out of the gate, beat up on two Mac schools, Kent State and Ball State, and then that game against Toledo was shocking.
17:57
SPEAKER_03: I think that's the first time Pitt ever lost to a Mac school.
18:01
SPEAKER_05: It it was, and they were the and and Pitt was the number nine team in the country when they lost that game.
18:07
SPEAKER_05: Like they were supposed to be that was the that was the reason this year was so disappointing, because they had uh a guy that they were because because the Heisman Trophy, I know you're gonna talk about that later, but you have to sort of prep for that preseason.
18:22
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
18:23
SPEAKER_03: Like you Well, they had been hyping him for the Heisman Trophy.
18:26
SPEAKER_03: Like I said, the Billboard the on the bus, like they're building him up.
18:29
SPEAKER_03: They're like, oh, he's gonna go for a Heisman Trophy, and you know, they're and he has a good game against Toledo.
18:35
SPEAKER_03: I forget his stats.
18:36
SPEAKER_03: He he does have a very, very solid game against Toledo.
18:39
SPEAKER_05: He just But the point being, it's like it's like a campaign.
18:42
SPEAKER_05: It's like if you're gonna run for president, you don't just run for president, you have an exploratory committee, and then you drum up some like press, and then you have you know primary stuff, and and it's it's like that for the Heisman Trophy.
18:54
SPEAKER_05: And so they they had done that, and then Pitt was supposed to, like you said, they were one of the favorites to win the Big East, and they they lose to Toledo, they don't really give Notre Dame much of a game at home.
19:05
SPEAKER_05: It it just ends up being a really disappointing season because they were supposed to be good, and then meanwhile, the Big East is falling apart as as the season goes on, like you said.
19:16
SPEAKER_03: Now, in between the Toledo and Notre Dame games, they play at Texas AM, um, but there's no swinging gate to save Texas A of M this time.
19:24
SPEAKER_03: But there is Larry Fitzgerald who's beating double coverage, because you know.
19:29
SPEAKER_03: I mean, if you're smart, that's what you do.
19:31
SPEAKER_03: I remember Kent State tried to cover Larry Fitzgerald single coverage, like they were at the five, and they were gonna play like a Mac corner on Larry Fitzgerald.
19:41
SPEAKER_03: Smart guys, smart, real smart.
19:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was a predictable outcome.
19:46
SPEAKER_03: Like they literally, I remember Rutherford threw the ball badly the first time, and it was like, throw it again.
19:52
SPEAKER_03: I'm like in the stands, like literally, and they did it.
19:53
SPEAKER_03: They threw it again, and there was nothing they could do.
19:56
SPEAKER_03: It was like literally nothing.
19:58
SPEAKER_03: You knew it was coming.
19:59
SPEAKER_03: It was one of those plays that fade to Larry Fitzgerald in the end zone was pretty much unstoppable.
20:05
SPEAKER_03: So um, are we gonna play some highlights from the Texas AM game, which they win in Texas?
20:13
SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like, well, you know, maybe Toledo is a fluke.
20:17
SPEAKER_03: Rutherford with a short drop.
20:19
SPEAKER_04: Now he pulls it out further to the left, and he's going to strike downfield.
20:24
SPEAKER_04: Oh my! What a catch by Fitzgerald! Oh, mercy! He's done it again.
20:31
SPEAKER_03: The man is remarkable.
20:34
SPEAKER_03: So as you can hear, um, Brett Musberger's really impressed.
20:39
SPEAKER_03: And like I said, Larry Fitzgerald beats two defenders with a catch where he's looking like over the top of his head and it drops in like Willie May style.
20:49
SPEAKER_03: And it's just an unbelievable catch.
20:51
SPEAKER_03: Once again, Larry's doing amazing things, and it seems like Pitts on track, but then they lose that game to Notre Dame.
20:58
SPEAKER_03: And they beat uh, do you remember the Virginia Tech game?
21:02
SPEAKER_05: Yep, I was there for that one.
21:03
SPEAKER_05: Lusaka was polite.
21:05
SPEAKER_05: But yes, yes.
21:06
SPEAKER_05: In the final seconds.
21:08
SPEAKER_03: Once again, another fine defensive.
21:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was Bud Foster, the defensive coordinator of Virginia Tech, decided to single cover, although they had a decent corner, the guy who did play in the NFL, I think, if I remember correctly.
21:21
SPEAKER_03: But he they kind of held him down the whole game, and then at the end, Larry caught a bunch of passes to set the Losaka polite up.
21:29
SPEAKER_03: Touchdown.
21:30
SPEAKER_03: And Larry Fitzgerald has a string, has a streak of touchdown catches.
21:34
SPEAKER_03: Like every game he has a touchdown catch.
21:36
SPEAKER_03: So and nobody can really stop that.
21:38
SPEAKER_03: That's how unstoppable he was.
21:41
SPEAKER_03: Um he played they play West Virginia, and unfortunately they lose, and that's in Morgantown.
21:48
SPEAKER_03: So I do believe we have we have a pretty good cat.
21:51
SPEAKER_03: Um I remember this is the one he really gets banged around, if I remember correctly.
21:56
SPEAKER_03: West Virginia played him pretty physically.
21:59
SPEAKER_03: Rutherford faking short and going deep.
22:03
SPEAKER_03: Double coverage flag.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: Still comes up with the ball.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Lest you think we were turning this guy into Superman and he's really not that good.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: That's the kind of play he makes every week.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: And when Dave said at the top of this game, you're gonna see some catches that you've never seen before, this is what he's talking about.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: He's judging where the players are, where the football is, and there are three fine athletes there Pac-Man Jones and Brian King.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: All three of them go up for the football.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: And just as surely as Bill Russell used to come down with a rebound, this guy comes down with the football.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: That is ridiculous.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:45
SPEAKER_03: So as you can hear, you know, and once again, you know, Pac-Man Jones ended up playing on a long, lengthy NFL career.
22:52
SPEAKER_03: So he's not just beating like Mac corners at this point.
22:55
SPEAKER_03: He's beating legitimate people that are playing in the NFL for long periods of time.
23:00
SPEAKER_03: And say what you will about Pac-Man Jones, he was a pretty decent corner in the NFL.
23:06
SPEAKER_03: They just didn't keep him around for fun.
23:08
SPEAKER_05: I I love how the band plays the Superman 'cause Superman.
23:11
SPEAKER_05: Superman Dave.
23:13
SPEAKER_05: he just yeah, he would just make these catches.
23:15
SPEAKER_05: Like how how in the world?
23:16
SPEAKER_05: The two guys on him, How did he catch that?
23:20
SPEAKER_03: So the season ended up coming down to a game against Miami.
23:25
SPEAKER_03: And um it's even that loss to like West Virginia didn't really knock them out of the Big East Championship.
23:34
SPEAKER_03: They're gonna be able to make the Big East Championship and play in a whatever you want to call whatever the BCS bowl.
23:41
SPEAKER_03: I guess they would have got the BCS bid.
23:43
SPEAKER_05: Right.
23:44
SPEAKER_03: And so they they play Miami and it's this big game.
23:47
SPEAKER_03: I remember it's being so hyped, one of the biggest games of that era.
23:52
SPEAKER_03: And Pitt literally goes in lays in.
23:57
SPEAKER_03: Um Larry Fitzgerald is pretty much held in check because they put Miami puts Andro Roll and Sean Taylor on him.
24:06
SPEAKER_03: Sean Taylor being one of the greatest safeties to ever play college football.
24:14
SPEAKER_03: They did like I would say they held him in check.
24:16
SPEAKER_03: He did score a late touchdown.
24:18
SPEAKER_03: I don't know how meaningful it was, but I do remember like he had scored.
24:22
SPEAKER_03: And it I remember it was like a really cold night in Pittsburgh, and it just it didn't it didn't help that pit and you know I don't think it was even much of a game, if I remember correctly.
24:32
SPEAKER_03: It it it for 28-14.
24:34
SPEAKER_03: I guess it was closer than I remember, but I don't remember ever being because Jared Payton, they just ran the ball right down Pitt's throat, like with Jared, with Jared Payton, who really was very mediocre.
24:46
SPEAKER_05: It started off good.
24:47
SPEAKER_05: Pitt got the first touchdown, and I remember uh I was at that game too.
24:51
SPEAKER_05: A bunch of people threw oranges on the field.
24:53
SPEAKER_05: Because that was the that was the bowl game that was going to be orange.
24:55
SPEAKER_05: That was the beast ass bowl that so people started throwing orange, like people were like, We're going to the orange bowl, and then Miami just after that, like you said, it wasn't it wasn't a game at all.
25:05
SPEAKER_05: It wasn't like it came down to the final seconds or any of that.
25:08
SPEAKER_05: It was just they dominated the entire rest of the game.
25:11
SPEAKER_05: And you're right, they really held Fitzgerald in check.
25:15
SPEAKER_05: Um, but they had an NFL secondary, they literally had an NFL secondary, so they just keyed on him and there wasn't a whole lot Pitt could do about it.
25:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, that that that one hurt.
25:26
SPEAKER_03: I think that's one of the probably the worst losses in Pitt football history.
25:31
SPEAKER_03: Because that that was one they needed to win just for the conference for themselves.
25:37
SPEAKER_03: They win that one, and you wonder what the alternative universe is that Pitt's in.
25:41
SPEAKER_03: Maybe Pitt's in the Big Ten instead of the ACC, or I I don't know.
25:47
SPEAKER_05: It it it it it hurt too because it was it was a disappointing year.
25:52
SPEAKER_05: They lost to Toledo, they'd lost to Notre Dame, they'd lost in Morgantown.
25:55
SPEAKER_05: But that would have salvaged everything.
25:57
unknown: Yeah.
25:58
SPEAKER_05: It's like, okay, yeah, some bad losses, but they still win the conference, they're still playing in a BCS bowl, and then Larry Fitzgerald's on a national stage against whatever the whoever the opponent was going to be in that game would have been uh obviously uh was it Georgia?
26:13
SPEAKER_03: Was that the year West Virginia played Georgia and won?
26:16
SPEAKER_03: I think that will I think that's what it was.
26:20
SPEAKER_03: Because like West Virginia ends up being like the what do I want to say, standard bearer of the Big East for that era until they lose a game 13 to 9.
26:33
SPEAKER_03: Pitt was never once for conferences, I guess.
26:36
SPEAKER_05: So it was actually Miami versus Florida State.
26:41
SPEAKER_05: So Miami by beating Pitt makes the orange ball and plays Florida State.
26:46
SPEAKER_05: So it still would have I mean that that would have been a huge game playing Florida State at the time Bobby Balleton was still the coach.
26:53
SPEAKER_03: They were the team and an ACC opponent, yeah.
26:57
SPEAKER_05: Yes, exactly.
26:58
SPEAKER_05: Exactly, from from a team that wasn't joining the ACC like Miami was.
27:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:04
SPEAKER_03: So uh Pick goes on to play in the Continental Tire Bowl, Tim.
27:10
SPEAKER_03: And I think he got a free set of snow tires if you went to the bowl game or played in the bowl game.
27:16
SPEAKER_05: So that'd be pretty sweet.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Larry Fitzgerald was pretty happy getting his free snow tires there.
27:22
SPEAKER_03: And um he actually doesn't really have that great of a bowl game.
27:26
SPEAKER_03: He ends up uh he had the like I say, he had an 18-game touchdown streak that gets broken in that bowl game.
27:34
SPEAKER_03: And uh some they they for some reason Pitt can't cover a tight end.
27:39
SPEAKER_03: The guy goes for like you know a bunch of yards against might might remember him as Heath Miller.
27:44
SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah.
27:46
SPEAKER_03: I think Schwab or yeah, not Charles Schwab.
27:50
SPEAKER_05: Matt Schaub was certainly Matt Schaub, yeah.
27:52
SPEAKER_03: Not Charles Schaub.
27:53
SPEAKER_03: Charles Schaub was the giving financial advice.
27:56
SPEAKER_05: I I think that game I remember.
27:57
SPEAKER_05: All I remember about that game was as a fan, I was bitter and disinterested, and I think it felt like the players kind of felt the same way.
28:05
SPEAKER_05: Like it was a it was a disappointing season, and playing in the tire bowl winning the tire ball tire bowl or losing the tire bowl really wasn't gonna change anything.
28:14
SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like how it is like very much how I feel about bowl games now.
28:20
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think it depends on what your path to the bowl game was.
28:24
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
28:25
SPEAKER_05: Like if if you were having a good season and then it fell apart, then the bowl game, it's like, okay, this isn't gonna fix anything.
28:32
SPEAKER_05: Now, if you're a teen that like, you know, like like the years before, the couple years before that, where Pitt had stunk in the 90s and now they're playing in a bowl game.
28:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was like, hey, look, we're finally the bowl game.
28:42
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
28:42
SPEAKER_05: So it just depends, I think, on the trajectory to get there sometimes.
28:46
SPEAKER_05: But that game, I just felt like that the like I said, nobody nobody cared by that point, and I don't think Pitt really cared much as a team either.
28:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:56
SPEAKER_03: So like I said, uh Larry loses his touchdown streak, Rod Rutherford ends up graduating that year, and um you might think, well, big deal, but uh actually I think that has plays a role in what happens here.
29:10
SPEAKER_03: So the NFL at the time had a rule that you had to be three years out of high school to enter the draft.
29:16
SPEAKER_03: Do they still have that rule?
29:18
SPEAKER_03: I I don't even know.
29:19
SPEAKER_05: I believe so.
29:20
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I believe they still have that rule.
29:21
SPEAKER_03: So I mean, and people, you know, railed against it, called it racist and all that.
29:26
SPEAKER_03: But last time I checked, you can't rent a car if you're under 21.
29:30
SPEAKER_03: You can't, you know, join the military if you're under 18.
29:34
SPEAKER_03: So you can't vote, you can't have a drink if you're under 21.
29:37
SPEAKER_03: So you can't I don't think you can drive like a big rig truck unless you're 21.
29:42
SPEAKER_03: So I mean, are all those things racist too?
29:46
SPEAKER_03: So whatever.
29:48
SPEAKER_03: It's an age limit, that's all it is.
29:51
SPEAKER_03: So I think Larry Fitzschorn actually went to court or I don't know if he went to court, but he appealed it.
29:57
SPEAKER_03: Because technically, if you remember way back when he went to Valley Forge Military Academy out of high school, and that's not technically um military, uh not a high school.
30:09
SPEAKER_03: So he is technically three years out of high school, and the NFL says, Okay, yes, you are technically three years out of high school, you can join the NFL draft.
30:20
SPEAKER_03: And um, Larry decides to go into draft.
30:23
SPEAKER_03: Um you know, we can talk he his awards that he did win, he won the Bletnikoff award for being the best wide receiver in the country.
30:30
SPEAKER_03: That's probably kind of a no-brainer.
30:32
SPEAKER_03: But he was in, like you said, in contention for the Heisman, and probably not doing better in that bowl game didn't help his chances, and not having a little better show or showing against Miami didn't help him.
30:45
SPEAKER_03: And uh so you know, guys, you know, he ends up uh losing to a gentleman named Jason White from Oklahoma.
30:54
SPEAKER_03: And um it we even I think I think that didn't hurt as much is the fact that the the people in the local papers, Bob Smyzac, Ron Cook were not even voting for him.
31:05
SPEAKER_03: And for the most like I don't know, petty reasons, like, oh, he doesn't touch the ball every play, and a guy that touched the ball every play, you know.
31:17
SPEAKER_03: So you know, so I guess Desmond Howard shouldn't have won a Heisman trophy or you know, any running back who doesn't touch the ball every play.
31:28
SPEAKER_03: So it was kind of weird, tortured logic.
31:31
SPEAKER_03: I'm not sure why they chose to make that stand.
31:34
SPEAKER_03: And um here's what I'll say about those kind of awards.
31:38
SPEAKER_03: You have to remember those awards, and this go for the Hall of Fame stuff too, is only only gets credibility by you being, you know, very formal and making yourself credible and making credible arguments that aren't petty and stupid.
31:55
SPEAKER_03: If you're gonna make petty and stupid arguments, you're going to make your award organization look very uncredible.
32:03
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's where I've kind of landed.
32:06
SPEAKER_03: And this was one of the things like you know, that just made me lose interest in all the NFL MVP stuff.
32:13
SPEAKER_03: And it's getting there with the Hall of Fame stuff because it just gets it gets very petty and personal.
32:18
SPEAKER_03: People voting against winning baseball uh then somebody voted against uh Derek Jeter just because oh, you can't have a uh uh what's it called, a unanimous vote for a player.
32:31
SPEAKER_03: And I just I just uh once again that that just hurts the credibility of their organization and your credibility.
32:38
SPEAKER_03: And you know, not the in the NFL and the Heisman Trophy has a credibility problem.
32:43
SPEAKER_03: Um you know they voted um who's the golden boy from Notre Dame back in the 60s.
32:48
SPEAKER_03: Was that Don Don uh Paul Hornig?
32:52
SPEAKER_03: Paul Horning, that's it.
32:53
SPEAKER_03: Won a Heisman Trophy over Jim Brown.
32:56
SPEAKER_03: Jim Brown was a far superior running back than you know Paul Hornig.
33:00
SPEAKER_05: And Notre Dame's stunk, I think, the year the Paul.
33:03
SPEAKER_03: They were six and six.
33:04
SPEAKER_03: He's the only player from a non-winning team to win a so once again, the these awards don't have any credibility in my mind.
33:11
SPEAKER_03: And I'm with Mario.
33:12
SPEAKER_03: I uh I'm gonna just go with the one they give based on stats.
33:16
SPEAKER_03: And I and what is that in hockey?
33:18
SPEAKER_03: The hard trophy because it's the most points.
33:19
SPEAKER_05: The art ross, yeah.
33:21
SPEAKER_03: Art Ross, yeah.
33:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so you know, if you have to vote on it, then it probably it's just a popularity contest.
33:27
SPEAKER_03: And like I said, I'm tired of all the protest votes.
33:31
SPEAKER_03: It it doesn't elevate the award, it just makes you and the award look petty and insignificant.
33:37
SPEAKER_03: And that's what I think of the Heisman Trophy.
33:39
SPEAKER_03: I know Travis Hunter won it this year.
33:41
SPEAKER_03: I I did he touch the ball enough for Ron Cook or Bob Smyzac.
33:45
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I know he plays both ways.
33:48
SPEAKER_03: He's probably the best, he probably is like for once, he is one of the best player in college football.
33:53
SPEAKER_03: He really is.
33:53
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I can I I don't know how you could argue otherwise.
33:57
SPEAKER_03: I'm sure there's other guys that are really good, but and you know, there's been guys that have done nothing.
34:02
SPEAKER_03: Ty Detmer.
34:04
SPEAKER_03: You know, come on.
34:05
SPEAKER_03: Or um, who is the guy from Houston?
34:07
SPEAKER_03: Andre Ware.
34:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, come on.
34:09
SPEAKER_03: I so once again, your award has no credibility, and that's fine.
34:14
SPEAKER_03: Same thing with the NFL MVP award.
34:17
SPEAKER_03: You know, if they they sit there and are and if you're gonna award it to like somebody that's you know dumb, then it's just gonna lose credibility.
34:25
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, anytime you have a subjective vote for something, you uh people's opinions vary wildly.
34:33
SPEAKER_05: I mean, you ask that that's always funny when you just get a group of people together and you ask their opinion on something, you can get 20 different opinions easily.
34:43
SPEAKER_05: And and and and so, yeah, with in like specific to Larry Fitzgerald, the So on on one hand, i the arguments were ridiculous, especially the local stuff.
34:57
SPEAKER_05: Ron Click said he got so much backlash for that, and deservedly so.
35:02
SPEAKER_05: Uh, but that's that is like okay, then make it the qu make it the best quarterback award, not the Heisman trophy.
35:07
SPEAKER_03: Well, they already have it, isn't it?
35:09
SPEAKER_03: The Davy O'Brien.
35:12
SPEAKER_05: You know, and like you said, um uh Tim Brown had won it, and and um Desmond Howard had won it.
35:18
SPEAKER_05: So like there was other there was a precedent there for even Charles Woodson, who played on defense, won it.
35:24
SPEAKER_05: So so there was a precedent there for giving it to a guy that wasn't a quarterback in in recent years at that point.
35:31
SPEAKER_05: So that was silly.
35:32
SPEAKER_05: Now, on the flip side of that, Steve, if Pitt I really believe if Pitt wins that game against Miami, even with all the Toledo loss and the and all the other stuff that had happened that season, if they win that game and Larry has three touchdowns, uh I wonder if he wins the trophy at that point.
35:53
SPEAKER_05: I think it was hard to give the trophy to a guy that was super dominant, whose team was a complete disappointment.
36:02
SPEAKER_05: So I I I think that hurt.
36:05
SPEAKER_05: And I like you said that Miami game was one of the worst losses, and then they really needed to win.
36:10
SPEAKER_05: I think they needed to win that not just for the program, but also for his for Larry Fitzgerald's legacy and for for the school to have the this the second Heisman trophy that that they probably should have had.
36:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it probably is like Pitts 39, quite honestly.
36:27
SPEAKER_03: If I had to pick, I mean Pitts had so many of those, like I mean, outside of the Cincinnati game.
36:33
SPEAKER_03: I mean, those two games are so pivotal in the direction that the university took.
36:39
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I don't know which is the worst loss.
36:42
SPEAKER_05: I mean, they're both well, Cincinnati was worse because we had a 31-10 lead.
36:47
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
36:48
SPEAKER_03: It wasn't like Cincinnati.
36:50
SPEAKER_03: I mean, who who made the pros off of Tony Pike?
36:55
SPEAKER_03: Marty Gilliard was okay in college.
36:57
SPEAKER_03: I mean, did they have one of the Kelsey's playing for them?
37:01
SPEAKER_03: They did.
37:02
SPEAKER_03: They had Travis playing.
37:03
SPEAKER_05: But but my point, like, I Cincinnati was undefeated at that point.
37:06
SPEAKER_05: Like, Cincinnati was really.
37:07
SPEAKER_03: But it wasn't, they weren't Miami.
37:08
SPEAKER_03: Miami was coming off of national championships.
37:11
SPEAKER_03: They were that was a really stacked team.
37:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
37:15
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that was also like that was also the one set era where he needed to, he had built all the way up to that point, and that was supposed to be the culmination of all that.
37:24
SPEAKER_05: And it didn't happen.
37:25
SPEAKER_05: This was similar, though.
37:26
SPEAKER_05: This was kind of Walt Harris's.
37:27
SPEAKER_05: This should have been Walt Harris's culmination of everything he built, with the best one of the best players that Pitts ever had.
37:33
SPEAKER_03: And too, with like all the I think it was, yeah, all the off-field stuff, too.
37:37
SPEAKER_03: Like they needed the point, well, we're gonna be fine.
37:40
SPEAKER_03: This would have been uh have fun on the way out the door, we're gonna be fine without you.
37:45
SPEAKER_03: We don't need you, you know, game.
37:48
SPEAKER_03: And you know, it turned out to be the exact opposite.
37:52
SPEAKER_03: I think I forget, yeah, they did get the BCS bid, Miami, and then I I think well, I want to say West Virginia did end up beating whoever they played.
38:00
SPEAKER_03: It was a pretty big I I want to say Georgia, I I know.
38:04
SPEAKER_03: And that's the whole joke of it all, too, is like the Big East has a winning record against the SEC in games, so go figure.
38:15
SPEAKER_05: Going back to the eligibility debate, the the the role was that you had to be three years out of high school.
38:23
SPEAKER_05: The way that people the thing that people thought was the role was you had to play three years of college football.
38:30
SPEAKER_05: No.
38:30
SPEAKER_05: Those are two different things, right?
38:33
SPEAKER_05: And and typically and usually those are the same things, because usually when you graduate high school, you go to college, right?
38:40
SPEAKER_05: He just had that year at the military academy, so it it it was this kind of wrinkle in things.
38:46
SPEAKER_05: And and yeah, that that's the way the NFL chose to do things.
38:49
SPEAKER_05: The NBA, if you remember, uh they would let guys come right out of high school like Kobe Bryant didn't have to be.
38:55
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, back then, yeah.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: Now now they have the one and done right.
38:58
SPEAKER_05: Now they now they make you go to college for at least one year, but then that kind of hoses college basketball a little bit because you have these guys that are really good, but then they're only there for one year.
39:08
SPEAKER_05: And and then you had guys uh like um uh Caliperi who used to, you know, take advantage of that.
39:17
SPEAKER_05: Like, hey, just come come be a come be a mercenary for one year for us, and then and then you know uh you can you can build up your NBA resume.
39:25
SPEAKER_03: So well, this is before NIL too.
39:28
SPEAKER_03: So like people were I'm sure everybody was getting paid, but it was just under the table.
39:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and in good cases, some schools and schools, some schools that I'm sure Pitt didn't do it, I'm pretty sure Notre Dame didn't do it, but I guarantee you Georgia and all the uh Texas AM, all those schools down there, Texas definitely were doing it.
39:51
SPEAKER_05: And if and if you're Larry Fitzgerald, yeah.
39:54
SPEAKER_05: I mean, if you can go to the NFL and and start making millions of dollars, you're gonna want to do that rather than stay in college for another year without your quarterback who graduated, like you said.
40:04
SPEAKER_03: Right.
40:04
SPEAKER_03: And then they didn't, I mean, Tyler Palco was kind of debatable, and then they had some guy named Joe Flacco from New Jersey, but who knew who he was?
40:14
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, if like I've said, if I have my time machine, I go back in time, and and Larry's um father was a writer, and his mother, I think, had passed away, I think that year.
40:27
SPEAKER_03: Correct.
40:28
SPEAKER_05: When he was in school, yeah.
40:30
SPEAKER_03: And if he had promised her to finish his degree, I would have said, Well, you promised your mother, and it's not a degree from the University of Phoenix, doesn't count.
40:37
SPEAKER_03: Do you stay here?
40:39
SPEAKER_03: We st we move Palco to safety and put Joe Flacco at quarterback.
40:44
SPEAKER_03: My goodness gracious, you've to a first round pick throwing to a first round pick.
40:52
SPEAKER_05: That would have been an interesting what if.
40:55
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but it doesn't happen.
40:57
SPEAKER_03: No, because you know, we must make Bob Palko happy.
41:01
SPEAKER_03: But actually, you know, I always criticize Walt for that, but you know, it it looked good in the short term.
41:06
SPEAKER_03: He threw five touchdowns, what, four or five touchdowns against Notre Dame.
41:09
SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't like Tyler Palco was a complete bust at quarterback.
41:13
SPEAKER_03: Right.
41:15
SPEAKER_03: Anywho, Larry goes to the NFL and he plays like two years in Flames Out.
41:21
SPEAKER_03: Ha ha.
41:22
SPEAKER_03: Just kidding.
41:24
SPEAKER_03: He plays like 16 years, and where do we begin with his uh NFL career?
41:30
SPEAKER_05: Well, he gets drafted by a team that's historically bad.
41:34
SPEAKER_03: The Arizona Cardinals, yes.
41:37
SPEAKER_03: And do you want to go through the quarterbacks he played with?
41:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he's gonna play with all these great quarterbacks, Tim.
41:43
SPEAKER_03: He plays with one Hall of Fame quarterback for what, three years?
41:48
SPEAKER_03: Two years?
41:49
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah, and then and then one pretty decent quarterback.
41:54
SPEAKER_03: And then of course, I mean, you're obviously talking about John Skelton.
41:58
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he was what about Max Hall?
42:02
SPEAKER_03: Max Hall was great.
42:03
SPEAKER_03: Kevin Collb.
42:05
SPEAKER_05: When Steve goes through this list, I mean, this is really a a tragedy because it's a who's who of nobody.
42:12
SPEAKER_05: The Cardinals failed him miserably.
42:15
SPEAKER_03: They they still's gotta make the Hall of Fame if he he hasn't made, he's not eligible yet, right?
42:21
SPEAKER_05: Well, he and he's second all time in in receiving DeKerry Rice.
42:26
SPEAKER_03: All right, here I'll start.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: Do you want me to start the list, Tim?
42:30
SPEAKER_03: We'll go in, I guess, chronological order.
42:33
SPEAKER_03: Josh McNown, journeyman.
42:36
SPEAKER_03: Eh, whatever, right, Tim?
42:38
SPEAKER_03: Sean King.
42:40
SPEAKER_03: Uh, well, that was the tail end of his career.
42:42
SPEAKER_03: He was good in Tampa Bay.
42:44
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if he was good.
42:45
SPEAKER_03: Let's say he was mediocre in Tampa Bay.
42:47
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, this isn't too bad yet, but it gets worse.
42:50
SPEAKER_03: John Navarre.
42:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh sure.
42:55
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I guess.
42:56
SPEAKER_03: Kurt Warner, okay, he got a Hall of Famer.
42:59
SPEAKER_03: And then we get into the Matt Leinert of the world.
43:04
SPEAKER_03: Uh that was a will we call Matt Leinert a bust.
43:08
SPEAKER_03: I guess we will.
43:09
SPEAKER_03: And then, I mean, he now this whole time they're changing coaches, too.
43:14
SPEAKER_03: Between Dennis Green, Ken Wisenhunt, and then I think eventually Bruce Arians, right?
43:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:20
SPEAKER_03: Right.
43:20
SPEAKER_03: And there's a bunch of other coaches sprinkled in for fun.
43:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:25
SPEAKER_03: Now it gets really, oh, this gets rough, Tim.
43:28
SPEAKER_03: 2010.
43:30
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what his his stats were in 2010, but whatever they were, they were in sp this in spite of these people.
43:38
SPEAKER_03: Derek Anderson.
43:40
SPEAKER_03: The only thing I know about Derek Anderson, he played for Cleveland and didn't he have like size seventeen shoes.
43:45
SPEAKER_05: He made the Pro Bowl.
43:47
SPEAKER_03: He made a Pro Bowl.
43:48
SPEAKER_03: Jeez.
43:49
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
43:50
SPEAKER_05: Cleveland had that one one really good season with him.
43:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:53
SPEAKER_05: Where they almost made the playoffs and he and Derek Anderson.
43:56
SPEAKER_03: Was that the ten and six year?
43:57
SPEAKER_03: Uh huh.
43:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:58
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
43:59
SPEAKER_03: That was with uh Uh, Cornell, or Romeo Cornell, I do believe.
44:02
SPEAKER_03: John Skelton.
44:04
SPEAKER_03: Uh sure.
44:05
SPEAKER_03: I don't even know anything about John Skelton.
44:08
SPEAKER_03: Max Hall?
44:10
SPEAKER_03: Why not?
44:11
SPEAKER_03: Um Kevin Cobb, which just sounds like a weapon out of the old Goldeneye games.
44:19
SPEAKER_05: Sweet, I got the Kevin Cobb.
44:22
SPEAKER_03: That was a horrible gun.
44:23
SPEAKER_03: That was a horrible gun, too, if I remember correctly.
44:28
SPEAKER_03: Who the heck is Ryan Lindley?
44:30
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
44:31
SPEAKER_03: No offense to Ryan Lindley and family.
44:34
SPEAKER_03: Ryan Hoyer.
44:35
SPEAKER_03: But that's like nothing, that's like a barely a third string guy.
44:39
SPEAKER_03: Like okay, then they get serious.
44:41
SPEAKER_03: They bring in Carson Palmer.
44:43
SPEAKER_03: So that's a real quarterback.
44:47
SPEAKER_03: Draw play Drew Stanton, Tim.
44:50
SPEAKER_03: You remember him from Michigan State?
44:52
SPEAKER_05: I do.
44:54
SPEAKER_03: Blaine Gabbert for five games in 2017.
45:00
SPEAKER_03: Josh Rosen.
45:02
SPEAKER_03: Is that the uh infamous first round pick that totally flamed out in 2018?
45:07
SPEAKER_03: I do believe.
45:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
45:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
45:08
SPEAKER_05: And then they tried to trade him.
45:10
SPEAKER_05: Or was it Miami had drafted and they traded him to Arizona, or was it the other way around?
45:14
SPEAKER_05: Either way, he wasn't good.
45:17
SPEAKER_03: He was like a first round pick.
45:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
45:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
45:19
SPEAKER_03: Sam Bradford.
45:22
SPEAKER_03: And then Kyler Murray for his last two seasons.
45:25
SPEAKER_03: Who I don't know.
45:27
SPEAKER_03: Is the book still out on Kyler Murray?
45:29
SPEAKER_05: I I think Kyler Murray is good, but not great.
45:34
SPEAKER_05: I don't know if he could ever win anything with him.
45:36
SPEAKER_05: And certainly when he was, you know, like still feeling his way around the league when Larry was there, he wasn't great.
45:44
SPEAKER_05: So yeah, that's that's an awful track record.
45:47
SPEAKER_05: Like I said, the that franchise failed him in every way.
45:51
SPEAKER_05: Uh he seconded Gary Rice.
45:54
SPEAKER_05: Gary Rice had three league MVPs, three different league MVPs during him.
46:00
SPEAKER_05: He had Joe Montana, Steve Young, and Rich Cannon.
46:03
SPEAKER_05: Those were Gary Rice's quarterbacks.
46:06
SPEAKER_05: And you know, what Larry Larry has Kurt Warner for two years as a starter, and he has Carson Palmer for like a year and a half.
46:13
SPEAKER_05: That's all he that's all he had.
46:15
SPEAKER_05: He didn't have anything else, and he still finished second all-time to Gary Rice.
46:19
SPEAKER_05: I think I think that says everything you need to know about the greatness of Larry Fitzgerald.
46:25
SPEAKER_03: He had Ryan Lindley.
46:27
SPEAKER_03: Come on, man.
46:30
SPEAKER_03: Like you said, yeah, he Larry ends up having this great career.
46:34
SPEAKER_03: Um Super Bowl 43, seven receptions for 127 yards and two touchdowns.
46:41
SPEAKER_03: Um just unbelievable how good he was in that game.
46:46
SPEAKER_03: Um he has uh here, we'll play a couple of his touchdowns just to make Tim cringe.
46:54
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean I can listen to these now and and not cringe, but at the time, I I think you and I were flipping out because it's like, oh my god, he's gonna come back and our favorite player is gonna come back and beat us in the Super Bowl.
47:10
SPEAKER_04: And it's gonna be a fade for Fitzgerald who's gonna go up and make the catch with a touchdown.
47:17
SPEAKER_00: There's no one that does it better than Larry Fitzgerald to go up and get the ball at the highest point.
47:23
SPEAKER_00: And the defender cannot go as high as he can go.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he is super, super, super at this.
47:32
SPEAKER_05: But like you said about jump balls, I mean Ike Taylor on record saying like I tried, like I tried to rip the ball out of his hands, like I couldn't do anything.
47:43
SPEAKER_05: Like it Ike Killer wasn't in bad position.
47:46
SPEAKER_05: It's just like literally there's nothing you can do.
47:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and Ike was really bad at jump ball, defending jump balls.
47:54
SPEAKER_05: He was, but even if you had Richard Sherman, whoever put whoever you want back there that was good at plays like that, you still there's just no way.
48:02
SPEAKER_05: You couldn't stop it.
48:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he's the best.
48:05
SPEAKER_03: That's probably his best play.
48:07
SPEAKER_03: And like, you know, it just translated so well from college.
48:10
SPEAKER_03: And really, you know, with all the different quarterbacks, really didn't, it could have been you or me throwing him the ball at that point.
48:17
SPEAKER_03: I mean uh he has a second touchdown in that Super Bowl, if you remember, Tim.
48:24
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, this was right after the Steelers had taken the safety and they were they were clinging.
48:30
SPEAKER_03: Don't worry, the defense defense will hold him down.
48:35
SPEAKER_04: Warner has to go to the Fitzgerald in the steel of territory.
48:39
SPEAKER_04: 30, 20, 10.
48:41
SPEAKER_04: Arizona has the lead.
48:49
SPEAKER_03: What's that with like two minutes left?
48:52
SPEAKER_03: Two minutes and thirty minutes.
48:53
SPEAKER_05: Two minutes left, and they score this, you know, whatever that was, 64-yard touchdown.
48:58
SPEAKER_05: It was it was so so many emotions at that point because the Steelers had blown the lead, and like we said, our best our favorite players coming back to beat us.
49:08
SPEAKER_05: They gave up the the this world-class defense that had carried us the whole year, gave up this huge play, especially at that point in the game.
49:16
SPEAKER_05: Steve, you're usually playing some kind of like pre-prevent defense, and he just tears through the secondary because he's that good.
49:24
SPEAKER_05: And he was so good that that entire postseason, the the most he broke Jerry Rice's record that postseason.
49:31
SPEAKER_05: He had he had something like seven touchdowns in that postseason, and and if you go look at the highlights, I mean they're all spectacular catches and things like that.
49:40
SPEAKER_05: It's it's unbelievable what he did, and then there's two minutes left, and Arizona has the lead, and then of course um we had to rely on our offense and uh and a quarterback that we had named Ben, and fortunately that all worked out okay for us.
49:54
SPEAKER_05: But my goodness, and and like I remember thinking in that game, Steve, I don't know what I don't know how you feel about it now.
50:00
SPEAKER_05: Obviously, it's an all-time great stealer moment.
50:03
SPEAKER_05: Santonio in the end zone, and we win.
50:06
SPEAKER_05: Um man, I wish it wasn't against that team, right?
50:10
SPEAKER_05: I wish it would have been against any other NFC team from that era.
50:15
SPEAKER_05: The Giants.
50:16
SPEAKER_03: Like the Cardinals, it was a shame because I like Kurt Warner.
50:19
SPEAKER_03: I like you couldn't come up with two classier guys.
50:22
SPEAKER_03: Right.
50:23
SPEAKER_03: And Ken Wisenhan, I like Ken Wisenha.
50:27
SPEAKER_05: And and Larry Fitzgerald deserved to win a Super Bowl.
50:32
SPEAKER_05: He did everything, you know, that whole Ron Cook thing about like who touches the ball, the the the he got he willed them to that Super Bowl, and then when they were down in the fourth quarter, he took over, he beat the the great stealer defense, he he willed them to a win there, and and we just kind of had the ball last.
50:51
SPEAKER_05: And and so he doesn't get it, and then he never gets back there again.
50:54
SPEAKER_05: And that's the the real sad part about that game is he deserved he deserved the championship and he deserved it in that moment, and we kind of took it away from him.
51:04
SPEAKER_05: And again, as a CR fan, obviously I'm I'm happy about that, but I'm also sad for him.
51:11
SPEAKER_05: He he deserved it.
51:13
SPEAKER_03: That he did.
51:14
SPEAKER_03: Um 2015, there's a pretty impressive game against the the Packers.
51:19
SPEAKER_03: You want to listen to that catching it.
51:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so the context of that game They were in overtime against the Packers after playoffs.
51:26
SPEAKER_05: After Aaron Rodgers had thrown a Hail Mary to tie the game in the final second.
51:32
SPEAKER_05: So that's that's the only reason they're in overtime.
51:34
SPEAKER_05: And that that felt like, okay, Aaron Rodgers throws a Hail Mary, the Packers are destined to win this.
51:40
SPEAKER_05: Like the Cardinals have to be so demoralized at that point.
51:43
SPEAKER_05: But then here's what happens next.
51:45
SPEAKER_04: So now Arizona from the 20-yard line.
51:49
SPEAKER_04: Looks coming.
51:50
SPEAKER_04: Matthews.
51:51
SPEAKER_04: Palmer stepping away at first.
51:53
SPEAKER_04: Palmer extending the play.
51:54
SPEAKER_04: Nobody there.
51:55
SPEAKER_04: Crosses the field.
51:56
SPEAKER_04: Larry Fitzgerald.
51:57
SPEAKER_04: Fitzgerald is going to take it into Green Bay territory.
52:00
SPEAKER_04: Larry Fitzgerald inside the 30.
52:03
SPEAKER_04: The 20.
52:04
SPEAKER_04: If he screams, it's over.
52:05
SPEAKER_04: It's insane to the four yard line.
52:09
SPEAKER_04: One of the greatest postseason performers ever.
52:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean it it so Carson Palmer kind of rolls out to the right and then throws back to the left, and Larry Fitzgerald just goes on a like what a fifty-yard jaunt to the end zone.
52:28
SPEAKER_05: So well, not quite to the end zone, but like the four-yard line.
52:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, four yards I and he scores on the next play on a shovel pass.
52:34
SPEAKER_03: Right.
52:35
SPEAKER_03: Right.
52:35
SPEAKER_05: And that's like how Michael said there, that's again, the real shame of that franchise failing him because the rare times that they did get into the playoffs, he was one of the greatest playoff performers ever.
52:49
SPEAKER_05: And that's really what that's really the mark of like a to me, that's the mark of a truly great NFL player.
52:55
SPEAKER_05: You know, that's what separates Joe Montana and Jerry Rice from a guy maybe like Antonio Brown, right?
53:02
SPEAKER_05: Antonio Brown's one of the greatest, maybe the greatest receiver in Steeler of history.
53:08
SPEAKER_05: But well, here, compare Antonio Brown to like Lynn Swan and John Stalworth, right?
53:13
SPEAKER_05: Antonio Brown probably had more talent, probably was a better receiver, but what Swann and Stalworth did in clutch moments matters a hundred times more.
53:22
SPEAKER_05: And that's who Larry Fitzgerald was, but the Cardinals rarely ever gave him the chance to do that.
53:28
SPEAKER_05: Pitt rarely ever gave him the chance to do that.
53:31
SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
53:32
SPEAKER_05: I just it's disappointing to me.
53:33
SPEAKER_03: But you could you imagine if he would have got drafted by the Patriots?
53:39
SPEAKER_05: Or even any team that was competent, like the Giants, right?
53:42
SPEAKER_05: The Giants had some good teams over that span.
53:45
SPEAKER_03: But I mean, him and Tom Brady.
53:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that would have been two of the most clutch players in postseason history together.
53:52
SPEAKER_03: And Tom Brady, all those years, he never had wide receiver.
53:56
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, or or imagine like the Colts with Manning or the Saints with Breeze.
54:01
SPEAKER_05: I mean, there could have been so many more um better places for him to go.
54:06
SPEAKER_05: And and kudos to Arizona, they did make the one run.
54:08
SPEAKER_05: Like we said, they really deserved to win it.
54:11
SPEAKER_05: But that was that was that was it.
54:12
SPEAKER_05: They caught they kind of caught lightning in a bottle with Kurt Warner at the very, very end of his career.
54:17
SPEAKER_05: I mean, that was the reason he only had Kurt Warner for two years is because Kurt Warner retired after the 2009 season.
54:23
SPEAKER_05: So that that's and that's really all they had.
54:26
SPEAKER_05: And then they they they had Arians for like a year or two that that um and Carson Palmer where they had some decent years, but like you said, um it yeah, it just wasn't a good franchise for most of the time he was there, which is unfortunate.
54:42
SPEAKER_03: Well, he did make eleven Pro Bowls.
54:45
SPEAKER_03: He was two-time NFL reception leader, two-time NFL receiving touchdowns leader, made the 2010's all decade team, 100 anniversary team, Art Rudy Award in 2014, of course the Blitnikov Award in 2003, these are the college awards, Walter Camp Award, Paul Warfield, Big East Offensive Player of the Year, Unanimous All-American, first team, all big B, all big East.
55:14
SPEAKER_03: And he is number one, is retired at the University of Pittsburgh.
55:18
SPEAKER_03: And like we said, he it we're kinda he's so different, but like you know, when you think of wide receivers, you think of divas, guys that are normally attitude problems, and um especially with the Steelers, like they've just had and it's not just with the Steelers, I guess all the you know, all the teams you've guys you know, even Antonio Brown when he went to the Tampa Bay, like you know, he he literally just quit in the middle of a game and ran around and made a spectacle of himself.
55:46
SPEAKER_03: And he's not the only one, you know, even Randy Moss had his moments and uh Torrell Owens and you know, just just all these guys, just what terrible you know, attitudes, and then you have this guy, you know, and I remember people always make excuses, well, he's a wide receiver, he's gotta have that attitude, he's gotta always want the ball.
56:05
SPEAKER_03: Who's a Keyshawn Johnson literally wrote a book saying what throw me the damn ball?
56:10
SPEAKER_03: Right.
56:10
SPEAKER_03: So I I don't I never heard Larry Fitzgerald say that, at least publicly.
56:15
SPEAKER_03: Maybe he said it in the huddle, you know, but it's just you know, it shows that you can do it, like I said in the beginning, with class and respect.
56:25
SPEAKER_03: And I mean he's not he lives in Arizona, he owns like part of the NBA W NBA or no, the NBA team.
56:32
SPEAKER_03: He does stuff there, he's a fine example of a person and how you should conduct yourself.
56:38
SPEAKER_03: And um I don't know, Tim, anything to add the Larry Fitzgerald's legacy, he's probably the best wide receiver in pit history.
56:45
SPEAKER_03: I can't think of anybody that was better than you.
56:48
SPEAKER_05: He's one of the he's the best wide receiver in pit history.
56:51
SPEAKER_05: I think he's top three in NFL history.
56:54
SPEAKER_05: I think he breaks Jerry Rice's records and has a a legacy that maybe even surpasses Jerry Rice if you put him, if you give him the same three different NFL MVPs throwing to him that Jerry Rice had.
57:08
SPEAKER_03: Even if you put him on the Steelers, him and Ben, oh my gosh.
57:11
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
57:12
SPEAKER_03: Right.
57:13
SPEAKER_05: And and like you said, Steve, the the humility, I mean, he would he would catch a touchdown and the ball to the hand the ball to the roof.
57:20
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
57:20
SPEAKER_03: Act like act like well, that was his dad.
57:22
SPEAKER_03: His dad, very old school like that.
57:25
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, but when do you ever see that?
57:26
SPEAKER_05: Now it's like orchestrated touchdown celebrations and everything.
57:29
SPEAKER_05: And I'm not, I don't really find whatever.
57:32
SPEAKER_03: I don't I'm not one of those people that are like it's not even the touchdown celebration, it's just the way they carry themselves.
57:38
SPEAKER_03: Like who you write a book, throw me the damn ball.
57:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
57:41
SPEAKER_03: You know, come on.
57:43
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's it's there's a lot of selfishness.
57:45
SPEAKER_05: There's a lot of I care more about my staff, self-promotion.
57:49
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, self-promotion, and what's my next contract going to be?
57:52
SPEAKER_05: He was the ultimate team guy, the ultimate uh humble player, and and was so so good.
57:59
SPEAKER_05: And I just think I'm glad we did an episode about him.
58:01
SPEAKER_05: I don't think he gets the credit he deserves because again, everywhere he played, the the the university and the NFL team he played for really failed him in more ways than they helped him.
58:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a shame.
58:19
SPEAKER_03: One of my favorite Steelers are pit players of all time.
58:23
SPEAKER_03: Um I'm trying to think like, you know, outside of James Conner or Darrell Revis or You know, I too bad I don't know.
58:31
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
58:33
SPEAKER_03: Those guys are probably some of my favorite pit players that I got to watch.
58:36
SPEAKER_03: And you know, he he's right up there with it.
58:39
SPEAKER_03: It just you know, he he's just one of those legendary talents that you when you knew you got inside the five and you could throw that fade pattern, it was gonna be pretty tough to defend.
58:50
SPEAKER_03: And that that was kind of his go-to thing.
58:52
SPEAKER_03: And then the classiness on and off the field, like we said.
58:55
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
58:56
SPEAKER_03: So thanks for tuning in and uh keep listening if you like topics like this.
59:00
SPEAKER_03: Um check out the book about uh the Baltimore Ravens rivalry that's still out there and a great read.
59:08
SPEAKER_03: Tim did a great job on that, and uh, we'll talk to you next time on Pittsburgh Sports Memory.