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Transcript

Rugby Direct - Episode 191 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Straight down the middle of Dry Dickney, scot Please boy, try.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: To get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Direct with Elliot Smith and Liam Napiers, powered by News
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Talks EDB.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct par By Excess Solutions celebrating twenty
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: five years in business. My name is Elligott Smith, News
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Talks lead rugby commentator with me as always is Liam Napier,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Chief sports writer for The New Zealand Hera. We are
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: in London and we've left Edinburgh behind, says the All
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Blacks head as well, and moved on for week three
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: of the end of the year tour. But as we reflect,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Liam on the twenty five to seventeen win over Scotland
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: over the weekend, what were your initial thoughts on that performance.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: It's a hard game to break down in many ways,
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: but we're going to give it a go.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah it is.
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: Indeed, it's another Jeko and high performance from the Ablex,
• 1:18
  Speaker 4: isn't it? And hard to know what to make of them,
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: what to take out of it. Look, they were really
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: good for large parts of the first half. Their attack
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: and the way that they I guess their bravery in
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: the sense that they were happy to run from deep.
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: I think that was really notable, probably a big shift
• 1:40
  Speaker 4: from what we've seen from them this year. They made
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: big meters out of their twenty two off set piece
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: you think. I remember one instance quinta pyre carrying felt
• 1:50
  Speaker 4: like ten to fifteen meters, big sweeping movements. Josh Lord
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: sets up cam Roy guard Wallace a tt lays on
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: a try. I thought him and Peter Luckye really took
• 2:01
  Speaker 4: their chance, largely in the loose forwards, apart from Wallace's
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: late yellow cards. Up seventeen nil and it's on for
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: a statement performance. It's going to be going to be easy.
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: It's all money in the bank from there. And the
• 2:16
  Speaker 4: All Blacks drop the opening kickoff of the second half
• 2:20
  Speaker 4: and pretty much shit the bed the cards, discipline. They
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: are on the rack, out on their feet. They can
• 2:28
  Speaker 4: see two quick tries to Scotland. Ardie Severe goes off
• 2:32
  Speaker 4: and all the momentums with Scotland, and I'm thinking at
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: that point they're going to do this. They are going
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: to beat the All Blacks for the first time in
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: one hundred and twenty years. Murrayfield is electric, the crowd
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: is behind them, and then they get back to fifteen
• 2:46
  Speaker 4: men and Damien McKenzie comes on. In an eight minute period,
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: he kicks a fifty twenty two, scores a miraculous try
• 2:53
  Speaker 4: on the corner that defies physics, and then kicks that
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: penalty with blood streaming down his face. So look a
• 3:00
  Speaker 4: captivating contest, very gripping from an All Blacks perspective. I
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: think there's a lot to work on, a lot to
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: improve on. But then there is a I guess, a
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: sense that they are showing an ability to win, the character,
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: the resolve to defend their line.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a bit of luck there.
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Scotland felt like the Allblcks were there for the
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: taking and they blew it once again, a very familiar script.
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: But there is a bit of a depth of character
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: in the way that the All Blacks are winning these
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: games late, and that's not something we've seen for them
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: in previous iterations of this.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: Robertson EARI it's not.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: And I put the question to Scott Robertson asking about it,
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: because do you view it as a glass half empty situation,
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: a game that they were leading seventeen NL and perhaps
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: could have gone on and you know, one with audue
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: respect to Scotland, you know, if they score a trift
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: to halftime, maybe the game gets away from Scotland. They
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: have to really chase the game at that point. I
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: opened up more opportunities for the All Blacks that they
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: could have won by thirty potentially. Or do you viewed
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: as a glass half fall situation where you had the game,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: you know, close to being one dar I say at
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: a halftime, but you had to really dig deep when
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Scotland came back. So we don't I'm not sure we
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: learned a lot about the All Blacks. Obviously learned they've
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: got a lot of fight in them, but it's those
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: worrying switch off periods and games that continue to haunt
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: them and they have been lucky that it hasn't cost
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: them in the last couple of Test matches. It's cost
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: them obviously earlier in the year where they didn't even
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: switch on against South Africa and Wellington. But they have
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: switched off and you know against an England team this
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: week before. Without wanting to throw a head too quickly,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: you know that they can't afford a period switch off
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: like that. Because England are a nine straight winning streak,
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: they're a very good team, they're a growing team. They'd
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: take advantage of that, and I don't think that Scotland
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: necessarily had the confidence or the belief to do so.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: If we look back at some of the key moments
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: in the game, when they went for the shot at
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: goal when they were three points down, there was almost
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: a moral victory in a way for the All Blacks. Yes,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: it got Scotland up to seventeen all but psychologically going
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: behind on the scorel board, backing yourself, going into touch
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: and going for the line out drive and taking the
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: lead would have been a bigger psychological blow. They had
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: all them all the momentum and they just as well
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Scotland once they got to seventeen, or kind of because
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: they were no longer chasing the game, they kind of
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: forgot how to play that style of rugby. They went
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: back to the box, They went back to keeping it
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: tight because they were on little peaking and didn't want
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: to blow things out too much. So I felt that
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: they went into their shelves a little bit when they
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: could probably least afford to and that allowed the All
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Blacks some of those opportunities to win. A couple of
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: key moments Peter Luckeye gets over the ball, Damian McKinsey's
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: fifty twenty two as you pointed out, and then obviously
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: that McKenzie try and subsequent penalty. So I don't think
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Scotland had it mentally to win that game. They may
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: learn from that because next time, if they get an
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: opportunity against Sell Blacks, they could go in for the kill.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: A couple of massive defensive plays as well, when the
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: cam Roy got on Darcy Graham in the corner and
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: I think Cody Taylor made a big tackle at force
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: an error.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: And but there were were just.
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: Blowing opportunities for scott I think Ben White, the halfback,
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: went through at one point and all he had to
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: do was reach out.
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: I didn't know it was that close to the line.
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So so many instances of what if for Scotland,
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: particularly with that record and the expectation hanging in the
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: Murray Fields and that the one hundred year celebration, So
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: it was all on and then and then it wasn't.
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: So but you're right, the All Blacks can't afford a
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: sixty minute periods that they dished up against Islands, or
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: a half an hour periods that they dished up against
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: Scotland's three yellow cards playing with fourteen men for half
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: an hour. This year, the All Blacks have improved the
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: vastly improved their discipline, but it all came back to
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: haunt them in that match and Leroy Carter brain snap
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: for the foot trap that that didn't cost them. I
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: think they won that period ten seven, no more than that.
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: They're up seven to eight at halftime seven Now, I
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: think they won that period, but the two second half
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: yellow cards really put them on the back foot. The
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: Arty one, I think, yeah, he's cynically trying to pull
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: down the mall for me. Scotland score that, So I
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: don't know whether it's I think it's it's the right call, but.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Legally, yeah, by the LUs of the game it's the
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: right call. But I kind of think that that's the
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: that's the reward is the try.
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I'm not debating any of the yellow cards.
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: I think they're the all fair. But yeah, when the
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: try is scored, I feel like play you should just
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: move on. Yeah, And so tt he is actively trying
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: to catch that, but that's how the game's refereed. It's
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: a yellow card every day of the week. So that
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: was unfortunate and probably avoidable. So that put a bit
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: of a dampner on what I thought was a really
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: strong starting return for him. And then yeah, the All
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: Blacks are really on the back foot. So three yellow
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: cards really really costly and they did bloody well to escape.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: In the end they did. And this is a recurring
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: problem with the All Blacks is that, Yeah, the discipline
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: has been very good this year, but it comes in
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: you know, I think you think back to boro Is
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: where Antelent Brown got yellow carded. It just seems like
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: there's a few brain snaps waiting, and often it's in
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: the same game. You know that one brain step seems
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: to bring two or three, and then they'll have another
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: game where you know, the card and the discipline is
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: actually pretty good. So I don't know what the fix is,
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: but a couple of those cynical and rather unnecessary sort
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: of penalties sort of touch on a couple of other
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: things from that game. Whilst the TD and blindside flanker,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: did that work for you?
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we haven't seen the best of Wallace
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: this year. We've touched on that.
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: And previous podcasts, but I thought that trio combined well.
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: Luck I have very good again from number eights over
• 9:11
  Speaker 4: the ball. He made one chopping tackle when Ardie Severe
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: got a breakdown penalty as well, and so Tis allowing
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: him to roam the wide channels. I thought he was
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: very good, very dominant with ball in hand, So I'd
• 9:25
  Speaker 4: like to see.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: More of that.
• 9:27
  Speaker 4: One point I'd just like to make about the attack though,
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: I feel like the All Blacks are relying a lot
• 9:33
  Speaker 4: on individual brilliance rather than necessarily crafting and creating.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Movements.
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: I think about the they were up seventy now at halftime,
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: but there was a period in that first half five
• 9:47
  Speaker 4: plus minutes with our attacking Scotland's line, and credit to
• 9:49
  Speaker 4: Scotland the staunch defense, but it never really felt like
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: the Alls were going to break them. And I can't
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: remember a set piece, set play or just their attack
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: I think still needs a lot of work. I feel
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: like they're relying on individual to offload or the Josh
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: Lord try for cam Rouygan. That's not something that's been
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: created necessarily. It's just one individual pulling off a big
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: play and I feel like again with McKenzie, you know
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: that was It's not something that's been set up or crafted,
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: so that that does worry me a little bit. When
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: it comes to the Olblacks attack.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Well you look at the Scottish way that they were
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: attacking and it was powerful ball carries and then that
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: opened up space because they were carrying harder to contact
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: that or I were to offload on occasion, but they
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: were just strong, relentless carries and it got them across
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: the game line. Every time Bilbocks don't seem to get
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: across the advantage line with their carry often enough, I
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: don't think. And occasionally you'll get a v as the
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: TD luck high they can do it, but when they
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: get into twenty two there's a worrying lack of red
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: zone and warness like it's and how they convert those opportunities.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: You can, it's in the twenty two it is hard
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: to harder to construct things because you don't have a
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: lot of runway right like the lines there. You can
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: bash away with your forwards, you can try and create
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: a bit of deception, a bit of depth. You can
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: put in a crossfield cap, but that generally happens if
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: you've got a penalty advantage. But yeah, yeah, I just
• 11:23
  Speaker 4: feel like the All Black's attacks not quite there yet
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: and it is individual brilliance, whether it be a Satti
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: or a Quintu Pire. What about the midfield that we
• 11:35
  Speaker 4: made a lot. I made a lot of Lester's first
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: start for the All Blacks at center. Personally, I thought
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: he was exposed on occasions. Defensively, I thought he had
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: a handling issue, so I was actually pretty underwhelmed by
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: his performance there.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. I don't think defensively wise he was
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: on top of his game. I think he missed a
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: number of tackles. Offensively, I thought he was pretty good,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: but didn't have the same impact that he did against
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: Ireland coming off the bench. Seem interesting to see where
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: they stuck with him next week against England or with
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: a moving to the left because of Caleb Clack's injuries.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: We'll get to that in a moment or two. But
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think it was his best test match in
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: terms of perhaps what the expectation was, and probably the
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: All blacksmidfield was probably appointed by sewny two pilotsu in
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Hutchinson for Scotland. So do they stick with it this week?
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: Probably because of Caleb Plaques's injury, they can manipulate it
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: a little bit. We'll get to that in a moment,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: but just on the attacking structure. One of our regular listeners,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: Dylan has tweeted it's now be meant to bring this
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: up for a couple of podcasts now, he said, he
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: tweeted us last week. The team is building nicely with depth,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: attack structure and coaching is still an issue. Any idea
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: why the Ford runers aren't running onto the ball when
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: carrying to generate some momentum around the corner. It's very
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: static and can't play with speed. It goes back to
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: that previous point around some of that attack and getting
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: over the game line. Is that either using Ethan de
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: Grootz and Fletcher Newell as quasi first receivers to try
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: and open up a little bit of space.
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Fabian Hooley does it a lot. He's actually got
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: quite deft hands at the line. Look, I think you
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: probably need to mix that up a bit. I would
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: actually like to see them pick and go, just go
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: through when they look really good, when they are direct,
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: when they have a bit of front foot momentum, and
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: Dylan's right, that's it's all very well to use those
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: forward runners to create that backdoor additional space for your
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: your playmakers. But if you're doing it all the time,
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: it becomes highly predictable, and so there needs to be
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: a bit of variety in what they're doing. And it
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: could just be instead of going out the back, maybe
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: go inside to another forward runner, or have a quick
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: pick and go, or a dummy runner and another forward runner.
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: Just have a bit of variety, because it does feel
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: like they always go into that backdoor play and it
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: does become very predictable.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it does, and it doesn't allow a build up
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: of speed. It doesn't generate momentum. I don't think because
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: you're essentially putting, you're trying to build space, but I
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: don't think you're building power or speed at the line.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: When you do that, you've got to come from a
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: little bit of a further back start or a standing
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: start sometimes depending on how the backline is, and often
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: the bodies aren't in motion. For the all blacks, it's
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: often you're running at a half step or you're not
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: running directly into the line, So you've got to build
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: up a little bit of momentum, whereas we saw Scotland
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: just that power of their carry and the way that
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: they were carrying generate momentum and get across the game
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: line much more adaptable than the All Blacks Worth.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: Well, it's just the old out age that you need
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: to earn the right to go wide. It's very well
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: to want to go to width and to want to
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: play with pace, but you need that generally, you need
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: that front foot momentum to do that.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: So a bit of a variety would help.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, thank you Dylan as well for your tweet
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: as well. We're enjoying the responses to keep those coming
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: and we'll feedback a feedback through the podcast as well,
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: and they goes through anyone. If you've got any thoughts
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: on anything we raise on Rugby Direct field free to
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: get in touch shot on social media and we about
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: four years into the podcast, we'll get an email at
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: some point there's on the to do list. It's in
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: the works that we are getting to the twenty first
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: century and getting an email address for Rugby Direct. So
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: two from two on the Grand Slam Tour yep, so live,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: it's live and if you'd said that before you left
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: New Zealand you would have taken it right.
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: Look, I think Islands is generally viewed as a fifty
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: to fifty match, and going to Murrayfield with that occasion,
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: if you push aside some historical arrogance amongst New Zealand
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: rugby fans, that was always going to be a huge test.
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: From where the All Blacks were at halftime, you would
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: have expected wanted them to kick on.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: But I think before the match I was very nervous.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: I thought Scotland were a red hot crack and it
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: turned out to be that way.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: And it was and it was interesting here. We spoke
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: to Ethan deg Group postgame and he talked about the
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: atmosphere when it comes to Murrayfield and that if you
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: haven't experienced playing in those stadiums, like at Twick, like
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: at Murrayfield, like at the Millennium Stadium, it's very hard
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: to understand the experience. Even just being there as a fan,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: you can get a sense of what it's like for
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: the All blackstick to go and play in this cauldron
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: and the noise and the Flower of Scotland starts reverberating
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: around when they're on the front foot in the second
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: spell and perhaps I think you said that, you know,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Kiwis tend to just go and sit on the hands
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: or whatever it was.
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: It well, we said, New Zealand fans can learn a lot,
• 16:35
  Speaker 4: could learn a lot from experiencing fandom, true fandom up here.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: And it's very true. We were very conservative and how
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: we support teams. We sit there and we analyze and
• 16:44
  Speaker 4: we analyze rather than support, we enjoy the spectacle. But yeah,
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: generally there's not a lot of enthusiasm and passion outwardly,
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: at least where man, it felt like you were carried
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: to another stratosphere at times when Scotland were on the
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: front foot at Murrayfield, it really was magic occasion.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: It certainly was. So let's look ahead through England this
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: weekend and they had a good win over Fiji over
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: the weekend. But from an All Blacks perspective, they're gonna
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: have to make some changes. Caleb Clark has been ruled out.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Scott Barrett is a possibility of returning this week. Let's
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: start with the back line first. Where would you look
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: to go? Would you keep leicsterfying a look on them midfield?
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Would you just go wing for wing replacement for Caleb Clark.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: What are you thinking?
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: Well, first of all, they have a number of options,
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: don't they.
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: I think they will go Leicester to the wing to
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: replace Caleb Clark and bring Billy Proctor in to center.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: And the reason for that is Razor has generally throughout
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: his coaching career the Crusaders the All Blacks favored at
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: least one power wing, and I think if the alternative
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: is to go McKenzie to fall back and play Carter
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: and Jordan on the wings, I think, yes, Riquewanne and
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: Sevice and Reuben Love are all options, but I think
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: that's the way they'll go because I think if you
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: play McKenzie, Jordan and Carter, it's a very short and
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: lightweight back three. Lester's spent two years in France playing midfield,
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: so wings not his specialty. But I think whatever happens
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: that All Blacks back three is going to be targeted
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: under the high ball, and I think you can still
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: involve him from the edge. I think Billy's best asset
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: is a defense. Hasn't necessarily shown that for the All Blacks,
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: but I think they still have a lot of faith
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: in them and that's why he was on the bench
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: last week, so I think that's the way they will go.
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: Caleb Clarke is a massive loss. Though he's come back
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: played really well. He has been damaging with his ball carrying.
• 19:03
  Speaker 4: He's been largely good in the year. But I do
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: worry about the the ragin of high balls that's going
• 19:12
  Speaker 4: to come for the All Blacks this weekend because it's
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: still an issue.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: It's still going. Yeah, that's Scott on Game of the weekend,
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Will Jordan battling under the high ball. There was other knockins, look,
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: And without Jordi Barrett. Jordi Barrett was a massive asset
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: that they were using to cover that backfield. So he's
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: a big loss in that regard.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: To he is. And I don't know, it's probably the
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: one thing stopping Will Jordan from being, you know, perhaps
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: the best fullback in the world at the moment, is
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: that the fact that he is just battling to take
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: those high balls. And whether it's a matter of super
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: rugby not aerially attacking that way or whatever it might be,
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks need to know what's coming this weekend.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: And so looking at that back three, I would probably
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: agree with you and go Lester on the left wing
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: and retain Will Jordan at fullback Leroy Carter on the
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: right wing, regardless of his brain snap on the weekend. Midfield, though,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: I would probably say I probably look to go to
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Rico Yuani at center. Billy Proctor. I think the jury
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: is still out big time. This is a massive test
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: with the All Blacks. Rico Yuanni, you know, move was
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: moved away from midfield at the start of the year.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Billy Proctor was tagged as the guy. I think Rica
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: is a better defensive center than Billy Procter. I think
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: for this test match of horses for courses approach, I
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: would put Rico Yuanni in the center.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, oh that's fair.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: I don't think Rico's Ricos played wing all year for
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: the All Blacks, so person I can't see them going
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: back that way.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: But I think you're right.
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: For all the criticism around Rico's performances at center, defensively
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: he was really good.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: There's no doubt attacking wise that there were massive questions
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: over it. But I think for this test match, where
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: I think defense is going to be what was demanded
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: of this All Blacks team, that's the way i'd go
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: this week.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they'll go Proctor and Rico on the bench.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: I can't say Proctor starting raccoons the bench.
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I can't see them what Sevaresa or Reuben Lover
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: can't I don't really Or Antonine A. Brown, I don't
• 21:14
  Speaker 4: really feel like they're on the conversation based on the
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: way Razers selected this team in recent weeks.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. I mean, you could build the
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: argument for a Ruben Love if Damie McKenzie were to
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: come into the starting team, but I just don't see that.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: And I think everyone's going on with Dame McKenzie great
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: off the bench now deserves a chance to start. We
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: still can't get it through our heads. People. The bench
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: is vitally important in test matches, and it's not a case,
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: I don't think anymore of playing well on the bench.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: You earn a chance to start playing well on the bench.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: That's not a war. To start playing well on the
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: bench is a basically a sign the bench is working
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: and you're turning the game. That's what you want out
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: of the bench, and that's the warrior I had by
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: moving Wallace a TD into the run on side is
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: that you're overvaluing the first fifty minutes compared to the
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: last thirty. And I get there's more time in the
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: first fifty, could be the last thirty, but those last
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: thirty I saw vital in a Test match and it's
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: where it's decided. And we saw the All Blacks come
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: home in the last twenty in Chicago and again probably
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: the last ten, but we didn't get the impact out
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: of the All Blacks bench bar McKenzie. You know Deepycreef,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: he came on for eight minutes at the end of
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: the game. Billy Procter was fearly anonymous when he came on.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Of course he's right, and didn't even get on.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: So I think the front rowers are performing really well.
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: Pasilio, Tossi Summersony Takyaho and Mighty Williams. Massive impact from
• 22:36
  Speaker 4: those guys are really delivering yep.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: So the front row yep. And McKenzie absolute tick. But
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: I think you keep McKenzie in the benchroll because that's
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: what you want him running at tied defenses in the
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: last thirty minutes of the game.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: I think Look, Damien's played his best rugby for the
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: All Blacks certainly this year at full back, and I
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: think he probably does deserve a start, but yeah, bringing
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: him on the last twenty half an hour as he's
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: the best bench assets from a back's perspective and world
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: rugby right now, so I think I think you leave
• 23:13
  Speaker 4: him there. Look, I think Scott Barrett plays and that's
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: a big end for the All Blacks because one of
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: the big concerns I have this week is how much
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: gas do the All Blacks have in the tank playing
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: for half an hour with fourteen men. I can vividly
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: picture them now, hands on hips, out on their feet
• 23:32
  Speaker 4: at various times in that Scottish match. I think that
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: will take a lot out of them. This is their
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: third big test in a row. England are a big
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: physical pack, so I do have concerns from a fatigue perspective.
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: So Scott Barrett coming into the Type five pushing Josh
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: load to the bench, I think that's vital. So two
• 23:52
  Speaker 4: questions for you, do you have concerns from a fatigue
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: point of view? And with Scott Barrett coming in, what
• 24:02
  Speaker 4: do you do with Simon Parker? So he was dropped
• 24:07
  Speaker 4: essentially last week loss of TT with dup c Carifi
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: coming on the bench. Are they holding him back for
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: this England Test.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's worth giving up on Simon Parker
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: just yet. I'm not saying they have given up on
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Simon Parker. They made that change for the weekend. I
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: think after a pretty good start in his career, he's
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: maybe tailed off a little bit, but defensively wise he
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: is good and I think you need that body this week,
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: just targeting anything that moves from the English pack.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: So you're starting him.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: I'm starting. I'm starting sign Parker this week and putting
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: it and again going back to my bench point putting
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: Wallace a TD on the bench.
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: Okay, I'm leaving the tt out there because I want
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: him to play fifty sixty minutes. I was really impressed
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: by what he did in the first half and I
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: think back to last year I took in him. He
• 24:53
  Speaker 4: put the world right beyond notice with a phenomenal performance.
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: So I want the most out of the tt A.
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: From a minute's point of view, I think there's an
• 25:02
  Speaker 4: argument to bring Simon Parker potentially onto the bench. I
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: haven't seen a lot of impact out of careffee he's
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: there to come on and get you a game changing
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: turnover or target the breakdown. But England are a massive
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: physical pack and I really think he might struggle with
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: that record.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I could see the argument with Scotland. The way that
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: they traditionally attack leaves open more opportunities for breakdown turn
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: nerves now didn't really happen in that regard because of
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: the way the game had flowed to that point and
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: where the All Blacks were when Karifer came on and
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: what the seventy second minutes. So hard to judge on
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: that regard, but I don't think this is the test
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: match for Plus Cafe.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: No, I agree.
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: Worth noting Luke Jacobson, who hasn't played for the All
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: Blacks all year, is also out with concussion after taking
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: a head knock for the All Blacks fifteen.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: Just on that question of fatigue, Cam roy Guard has
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: now played seventy eight minutes in Chicago in eighty minutes
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: at Murrayfield.
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: That worries me less than some of the full pack
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: because he hasn't played a lot this year and he's
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: consistently the fittest.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he's very very fair.
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: That the Yo Yosi was, if not top pushing Boden
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: Barrett for the record score. So yeah, big minutes, but
• 26:16
  Speaker 4: he's been out a lot this year as well.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: But what does it say about their faith in Courtiz
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Ratam and now not saying you, I admire the fact
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: that they kept can Roy guard out there against Silent
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: and again against Swotland. I think he is by far
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: the best half back in New Zealand and certainly in
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: the conversation for top two or three in the world
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: at the moment. But what does it say about Courtiers
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Ratsima that they traditionally have always gone for and again
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: throwing not throwing away Test caps but bringing on players
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: for the sake of it. I don't like, but you've
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: traditionally gone for that change up half back with fifteen
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: to twenty minutes to go. Can Roy Guards playing excellent
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: rugby at the moment, But what does it say that
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: they're perhaps not wanting to bring on Ratsima and changing
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: the pace of the game or the direction of the
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: game at that point.
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it says two things.
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: It says can royguards and another straightest fear to to
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: any other hard half back in that all black squad currently,
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: you know, Finlay Christie and Cortes lastm just aren't within
• 27:16
  Speaker 4: touching distance of him regards scored twelve tries since making
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: his debut in July twenty twenty three, more than any
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: other half back in men's international rugby in that period.
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: Neil Black's also when he plays. When he's in the
• 27:30
  Speaker 4: twenty three have won over ninety percent of their tests
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: under Razor, and I think otherwise they might be at
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: late seventies. So his influence on that team, for me,
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: is greater than anyone else. So I'm happy that they're
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: playing in eighty minutes.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: But you're but you're right.
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: It does say that nobody's within touching distance. And look,
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: I think that may change if Noah Hotham was in
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: the squad but casting further ahead, if you could go
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: Dylan Pledger, he could come on and further up the tempo.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: But that's probably at least a year away.
• 28:06
  Speaker 4: Really, I think from the sort of scenario, Roy Guard
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: is just such a lethal west set.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: If you can play eighty minutes, then why not keep
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: him out there?
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: Why not?
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Here's a take for you twenty eight minutes into the podcast.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Should I say this a lot? I'm gonna say it.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Could you move can roy This is not a this
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: weekend discussion, but if he's going to get an eighty
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: minute half back, could you keep him out on the
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: park and bring on a Dylan Pledge Noah Hotham type
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: and move a roy Guard into say a ten position
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: or even on the wing lace in a test match
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: if he's still having an influence on the game. But
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: you do want that dynamic, quick reception out of half back,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: but Royga can still have an influence. Is there a way?
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: And again people are going, what the fuck is this
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: guy talking about? But could you have them both out
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: on the park at the moment?
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: I don't think so.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I was workshopping this take with our friend Louis Herman
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Watt earlier today.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think so.
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: Look if needs must and you lose a number of backs,
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: I think he could potentially yeah, cover wing, But I
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: thank you there's this specialist for a reason. Yeah, and
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: I don't thinks played. He might have played a bit
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: of ten for the Canes at one point, but.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was Isaac Boss whould work with
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: him at counties level on this A year or so on.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Sky City believes that Ruga could play ten ye just
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: an idea.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: He probably could, but not for the All Blacks.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Okay, I will take quick break here on Rugby Direct.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Come back with the thoughts on the other games that
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: went around the rugby stratosphere over the weekend.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Try ten sixty every tackle, Get up again before I'm
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: not It's Rugby Direct. Go back with Rugby Direct. Fe
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: more thoughts on where the All Blacks and England might
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: go in a moment or two. But let's go around
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: the other games that occurred during the weekend. We don't
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: want to start. France South Africa was probably the banner
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: game of the weekend. Rematch that quarterfinal from twenty twenty three,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: and South Africa, despite being reduced to fourteen men for
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: just over forty minutes, were too good for France. It
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: started to France. That is a big win for South
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Africa Circleise's one hundredth There was all sorts of motion
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: around that were reduced to fourteen men with lud Diyaga
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: being sent off. If that was the battle for the
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: world number one team, well, South Africa win by absolute knockout.
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: That's another absolute statement performance isn't it. France and Paris
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: is an incredibly tough game to win. The all Blacks
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: have found out out that outs this time last year.
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: And yeah, going down to a straight red card, which
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: you don't see very often, just on that thoughts on
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: the decision it.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Was a red card. I felt a little bit sorry
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: for lud Diyaga to an extent because I did think
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: there was the sign of a rap motion, but it
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: was probably not enough to save them from the red card.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: But I didn't think the process and again this is
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: going back to my old favorite around the product versus
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: the decision. And so basically the foul play review officer,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: once the decision is communicated to them, can only decide
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: on a yellow card or a twenty minute red card.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: So Angus Gardener had to be the sole arbiter of
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: whether this was a full red card or not with
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: his assistance and the TEMO. I don't know why that's
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: a rule. Surely the foul payer review officer should have
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: all three punishments available to them yellow card, twenty minute
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: red card and a full red card, because on two
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: or three looks it had been clearly looked like it
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: was with the off field review. Great, that's what the
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: off field reviews for. I don't know why the foul
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: play review officer, who have seven or eight minutes to
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: look at all those angles, can't decide whether it's a
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: full redcard or not. That seems like a necessary hamstring
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: the process. So it was on angers Garden to make
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: that it was a full real I don't get why
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: that's the case, but I don't think lou diug has
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: probably got too much to complain about.
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: No, I think it was justified.
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: Look, there was potential mitigation in the fact that there
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: was a big dip, but it's clear shoulders to the
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: head and there is no real wrapping motion, so he
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: left himself open to the officials.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: And look, in the end it didn't cost South Africa.
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: They came over the top of France, Sasha scoring a
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: late try and South Africa kicking clear.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: So quite a bad loss at home for France. Really
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: they didn't have DuPont, but.
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: There's no real excuses otherwise, and it's their fourth loss
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: in a row and the last time they lost five
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: was twenty eighteen. That's from Russ Petty, the statistician in
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: the UK. That is a bit skewed because they sent
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: a second string team out to New Zealand in July. Look,
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: I still feel like France have massive strength and depth
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: and they are absolute superpower. But I think it is
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: a real punch in the face for them to lose
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: like that, having the one man advantage for so long.
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: I thought the handling was poor. They didn't really take
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: their opportunities. They can be quite erratic still, so it's
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: a bad loss.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: At home can leads to one man band.
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: Look, there's no doubt Anton DuPont is their talesman, and yeah,
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: they probably have become overly reliant on him in recent years.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'd have been concerns about France and
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: they are a quality team. They're very, very hard to
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: play at home. But we saw what happened to them
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: in the World Cup at home, where they obviously lost
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: to South Africa and been kind of melted down a
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: little bit as a result of that loss, but also
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: just perhaps the home weight of expectation as well didn't
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: sit well with them. They started strongly against the All Blacks,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: of course, but didn't quite work out from the home
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: World Cup. There's something interesting about the French that if
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: you're not traveling down to New Zealand for test series
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: like this, and I get why they didn't send a
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: full strength team, but at some point you're going to
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: have to spend seven eight weeks if you want to
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: win a World Cup in Australia with your teammates on
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: the road. And I just don't know that they have
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: that cohesiveness because of their approach to traveling to the
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Southern Hemisphere that when it comes to the crunch, it's,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: you know, one thing, spending four weeks at a time
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: with them in your own beds and then playing the
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: Six Nations and going around Europe. But going to a
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: World Cup when you've got, you know, to travel a
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: foreign country and you know, spend seven eight weeks with
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: your teammates, that is an entirely different thing. And that's
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: where I'm not sure that the French quite get it.
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: I think they are both propelled and hamstrung by the
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: strength of the domestic game. And the top fourteen is
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: a fantastic act. It's it's they have amazing depth, but
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: it's hamstring strings them in that July window. And when
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: your top team is not playing together very or often enough,
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: that really affects your cohesiveness and your ability to build
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: combinations and all those things travel to different destinations. Playing
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: abroad really matters. You think about the All Blacks coming
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: up here and you know players gaining the experience of
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: playing at Murrayfield and twicking them. It's a it's a
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: world away from playing in New Zealand's and a similar
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: sort of scenario for the French. So I think not
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: playing together in July while they're building depth and all
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: those sorts of things, that doesn't help their top team
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: gel and I think that's probably been born out a
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: little bit in that result of the weekend.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Let's talk Australia at ithly great for my Did I
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: say this on the podcast or that I can see
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: libiting you might have? Yeah they did.
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah it was dog on Australia. They cost me my
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: Southern sweep. I didn't have Fiji in there, but yeah,
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: look that's a it's not a shock, but it's a
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: result that should rattle Australian rugby and they really stunted
• 36:25
  Speaker 4: and maybe hit the wall after a long hair.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Think after Alice Park and a lot of the talk
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: that you know they came from twenty two Nel down
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: the Wallabies a back the Lions series, yep, absolutely, which
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: they could have won, and then it has just spun
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: out of control big time.
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: And I think they've won five from thirteen now this year.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and if it wasn't for that scrappy win over
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Japan and Tokyo a few weeks back, they'd be on
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: a seven game losing streak. Essentially, Potentially if they look
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: at the end of the year with Ireland and France
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: to hate, they could come out and beat Ireland. Who knows.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: But and I see this morning that got Will Skelton
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: and James O'Connor have joined them in Dublin. So the
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Cavalry's come in a little bit.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: But that's half their problem though, isn't it. Yeah, they're
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: not there all the time. And yeah, I do question
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: Schmidt's sticking with I know he started Carter Gordon and
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: that match, but sticking with Tane Edmonds first five remains
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: an issue. And also saw Joe Schmitt come out afterwards
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: and say, look, stick with us, we're doing our best.
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: Keep the faith. But I think if you're an Australian.
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: Rugby furious coach, if you're Australian rugby fan, it's skin
• 37:32
  Speaker 4: it to that that tether point again, isn't it.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: What it is? And if there was a gimme test
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: in the next couple of weeks that you go, maybe
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: Lee was the gimme test. And they've now blown that.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: And they've got France team who have now been stung
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: by losing to stay I forget to finished the year.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: They've got Ireland this week, who are very very good
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: at the Aviva. Yeah, it feels like spinning out of control.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: And you know, Joe Schmitt hands the reins over mid
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: next year to Le's kiss. But it's interesting. I saw
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: our friend Christy Dorian do a piece of the raw
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: around Joe Schmitt's legacy. So two tests to save the
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: legacy here for Joe Schmitt. And it does feel a
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: little bit like that.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: Yep, it does. Look he was startings from such a
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: low EBB. Yeah, Joe schmittt.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: Promise he's gonna he could finish at a low eb
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: and you forget about those highs in the middle. Yeah,
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: you do.
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: Look, I thought he's done a lot of good things,
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: but results matter, don't they. And we're, like you said,
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: it's starting to spiral now and it's been a huge
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: year for the Wallabies and I think that's starting to tell.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: It is Wales beating Argentina. Steve tandy first game as coach,
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: Argentina's biggest win over Wales. But to work on I
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: mean there were some positives there that they could put
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: on what twenty eight points in the end, not so
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: positive that Jack Morgan, who's by far their best player,
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: is now out for the rest of the year.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: It's a big blow.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: They have Japan this week, they have the All Blacks
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: next week, they have South Africa the following week, so
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: they've still got, you know, some big test matches to
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: come and with an eye to the World cut seedings
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: that's shrawn on December third. This Wales Japan game actually
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: takes on a lot of significance this week in so
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: they could get down to that third band of memory
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: serves right if they lose this weekend.
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw.
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: I think it was Rugby passed at a piece, basically
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: saying that it's incredibly hard. Now after the Wallabies loss,
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: I think Scotland have the best chance of breaking into
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: the top six, which gives you a favorable World Cup draw,
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: but it is very unlikely that the top six is
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: going to change.
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, lock Whale was there in a world it hurts.
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: They are looking at cutting at least one domestic professional
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: team and look, I think Steve Tandy, you've got to
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: give him time.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: He was defensive coach with Scotland's and so it's not
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: a three week job.
• 40:04
  Speaker 4: No, he won't be happy with that of conceding for
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: to your points, but he's not going to turn that
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: around overnights. He's making all the right noises. But so
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: Wales have now considered the most and second most first
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: half points at home and their last two matches they
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: are thirty three via England and thirty one va Argentina.
• 40:27
  Speaker 3: So like it's an up pearl battle, isn't it?
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: It really is. Before we go on Rugby Direct, let's
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: circle back to the All Blacks and England on Sunday
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: morning for a m England. I think a possibility to
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: name the team early. They might do it on Tuesday.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Haven't heard an update on that front as yet, but
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: they are on a nine match winning streak and they're
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: putting together some solid performances. That Fiji game, they were
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: you know, at the balance for a little bit but
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: managed to kick clear and put forty on them. In
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: the ends, they hung tough against a poor Australian side.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Didn't have to hang cats up, but they just knew
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: that they they wore them down, they were going to
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: get the win. There's some positive signs building in this
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: England team, but there will be a test for them
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: for the All Blacks this weekend.
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: Well, let's first of all assess where they are at
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: and unpack that that nine match winning run. There's no
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: doubt they're building confidence and belief and at Twickenham it's
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: always been a bit of a fortress.
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: Seal Blacks have a pretty good record there.
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: I don't know off the top of my head, but
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: they obviously won their last year in a very dramatic match.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: I think it was twenty four twenty two down by Aden,
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: came back to one here.
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: That was a Mark Tala try in the corner, Damien
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: McKenzie clutch conversion and George Ford misses a potentially match
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: winning drop goal. So, first of all, on the England records,
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: how good is this nine match winning run. I think
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: their most notable scalp in that is France. I think
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: their last loss was maybe the first round to Islands
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: of the six nations in Dublin.
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: So what do you make of that streak?
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: First and foremost, you don't win nine games by excellent
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: against anyone. Um, I think that's generally true. And they
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: beat France by one point to Twickenham. They beat Scotland
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: by one point at Twickenham. But as from South Africa
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: the last World Cup, three wins in a row, even
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: by one point will get new places, and then Italy
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: and Wales after that, two pretty good and straightforward wins
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: for them. There's a couple of games in there where
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: we go weekend Argentine, the team who I don't think
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: had their full strength side of memory serves for some
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: of those games. Mind you needed did England, so hard
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: to know whether that even constitutes a test match when
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: you've got all your best players playing for the Lions.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: They had the USA I think in there as well,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: and then those last couple of weeks, so again you
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: don't win nine games by accident. They're a very very
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: good team. I think they've still got a little bit
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: to prove where they sit in World rugby, but I
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: think to be honest, they're in a pretty good spot
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: two years out from a World Cup. I don't know
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: if they're quite there as yet. This test will be
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: a very very interesting marker as to where they sit.
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: I I don't know about you, but I always felt
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: this would be the greatest threat to the All Blacks
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: Grand Slam Tour. They're chasing their first Grand Slam in
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: fifteen years, and it always felt like England's loomed on
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: the horizon, you know. And there's history here, recent history
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: as well, because not only that game last night November,
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: Bill Black's played in England's played three times last year.
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: I think England came down to New Zealand twice in
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: July probably should have been Neil Blacks and raised his
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: first game in charge in Dunedin when Marcus Smith missed
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: a couple off the tea from memory, and then they
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: went pretty close at Eden Park when Boden Barrack came
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: off the bench to turn that game late. So there'll
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: be a sense of unfinished business for England, a sense
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: of revenge that they'll want. They'll be right up for this,
• 43:57
  Speaker 4: and yeah, they built some confidence and belief. I think
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: last week they made some changes.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: They went to.
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: Finn Smith at ten and Marcus Smith at fullback, so
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: more hacking endeavor. But I think they will revert to
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: their DNA revert to type this week, go back to
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: George Ford at number ten and I Freddy Stewart's will
• 44:18
  Speaker 4: probably come in at fullback. Alex Mitchell will kick all
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: day from the base. Do you expect anything out of
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: the box from ingend or will it be classic not
• 44:28
  Speaker 4: ten man rugby, but they'll look to go to their
• 44:31
  Speaker 4: set piece and squeeze and kick.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: I would love to see them play out of the box.
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: I think it's when they're at their best, actually, when
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: they challenge the All Blacks as they think back to
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: that game they won in twenty twelve where they did
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: play attacking rugby and took the All Blacks attired All Blacks,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: but All Blacks on at their own game, the game
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two where they came back from what
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: was at twenty five six down to draw the game.
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: They were chasing it, but it forced them to play
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: a little bit of attack. I get why they play
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: like they do, but sometimes I think they're actually more
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: efficient against the All Blacks in terms of that head
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: to head matchup when they do take the All Blacks
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: on at their own game. You know, you saw Scotland
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: get a lot of pay at the strong direct carries. Now, yes,
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: maybe England will do that anyway, but Scottland also found
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: space on the edge. By doing that. With that strong carries,
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: they're able to suck the defense in the middle of
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: park open up space on either edge. So they've got
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: some fine wingers as well, Tommy Freeman and Manuel fey Woboso.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a real weapon.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: So but they're a really really good team. And as
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: I said, I like where they're sitting two years out
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: from World Cup. Henry Arundel. There's another strong player in
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: that back line who may get a start this week.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: Potentially interesting to see what Steve Borthwick does.
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: But Chanlo Cunning himself Yep, damaging bull career, the Kiwi
• 45:45
  Speaker 4: born loose Ford.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: That's right, and so I really like the way that
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: they are positioned with the night of the World Cup.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: So it's just gonna be interesting to see what they
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: do at ten this week. Do they go back to
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: George Ford?
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he was their man against the Wallabies two weeks ago,
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: and I don't think Finn Smith really took his chance
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: against Fiji. He's performed really well for Northampton, but I
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: don't think he really suits the style that Borthwick likes
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: to play. Look, I think England can play a multitude
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: of ways, but first and foremost they will go back
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: to that Maro ToJ massive presence as well lead the
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: Lions tour, and not only from a line out perspective,
• 46:33
  Speaker 4: but he is an absolute menace at the breakdown, so
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: the Blacks need to get that right.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Very impressed as well by Fraser Dingal, who's only played
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: I think five sixtiest potentially like the look of him
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: at second five as well. So it's very very good team.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: It's hard to too many weaknesses in that England side,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: but what we have seen is occasionally they get to
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: a point we think they're on the rise and then
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: the full comes. So again, oh, this is.
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: The big reveal for both teams, isn't it. Yeah, it's
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: quite hard to get a real gauge on where the
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: All Blacks are at and where England are at, and
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: I think this week it's one of the greatest rugby venues.
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: It will be another huge occasion we will find out.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, flew over that last night as a coming in.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: It's like they had the heaters on the surface and
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: everything like that. It's like, yeah, this is a Aliard stadium.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Nothing better.
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, no, pound Spirit No, Absolutely very much.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Looking forward to it. We'll be back with another podcast
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: once the teams are revealed later in the week, probably
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Friday morning at New Zealand time, but on Behalf Lars
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: and Bars englishly in Napier and Xy Solutions celebrating twenty
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: five years in business. Elliott Smith pushing you a very
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: good week.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: For more from News Talks b listen live on air
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you
• 47:52
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