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146. Billy Tipton - Trans Jazz Icon · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, delicious friends, and welcome to Who Did What Now?
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: The history podcast That's not your history class with me,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: your host Katie Charlwood, History harlot and reader of books.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot going on at the moment, and
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: this isn't even like my life. This is just in
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: the world at time of recording. The madline, which is
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the aid flotilla, the humanitarian aid flotilla that is trying
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: to get humanitarian aid in to Palestine. Right it has
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: been intercepted, the crew have been kidnapped, and they're putting
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: out all these like propaganda photos of like, oh, we
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: gave them sandwiches, and it's like, yeah, they're on an
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: entire flotilla of aid which is going to include food.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: You don't think they brought food really, so they did that.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: On top of that, like here's here's the thing. Here's
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: here's the thing. Israel are reporting that they've stopped the
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: selfie yacht, which is such a weird way to phrase
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: humanitarian aid flotilla.
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: What.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: And then on top of this we have Los Angeles.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: So basically ice agents, who as federal agents, should have
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: like a badge number and a name, and you should
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: be able to hold them accountable for their actions. Yeah,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: isn't that how this works? Like, isn't that a thing anyway?
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: So they're trying to kidnap people in Los Angeles, and
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: the good citizens of Los Angeles have decided that they
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: don't want that happening, and so they are just making
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: like human barriers to stop them, you know, kidnapping and
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: detaining their friends, family, nables. Right, and so they are
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: peacefully protesting and there's there's been nothing nothing happening in
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Congressmen and congresswomen sorry members of Congress, I suppose as
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: the best term, have been trying to get into detention
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: centers to see people because legally, you cannot stop a
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: member of Congress from seeing their constituents, even if they're
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: being detained, like that's just the law. And they keep
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: being turned away, which is like illegal. So that's the
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: whole situation. But yeah, they're like they sent him the
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: National Guard, like as if they're wanting an escalation. And
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: there was an Australian journalist, like you can see the video.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: They aim at her, they take aim and they shoot her,
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: which is like with a rubber bullet. And here's the thing.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Rubber bullets are meant to be deterreds. You're never supposed
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: to aim at a person with a rubber bullet. The
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: whole purpose of a rubber bullet is to hit the ground,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: and it's supposed to bounce up and hit them on
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: the leg. It's supposed to be like annoying. It's supposed
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: to force people to move. It's not supposed to be
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: used as a bill. It like, you're not supposed to
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: aim it at a person, Like that's not a thing.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Take it from someone who's you know, troubles adjacent, you know,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: like it's just it's just across the road, like I'm
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: from Donegal, Like this is stuff we know, you know,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: and it is it is wild that this is happening
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: right now. And don't get me started on the the
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Elon Musk. It's this Trump so that they showed you
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: how like how insane this all is because my brain
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: is not computing it. Like they're having like a breakup
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: of sorts and they're just like admitting to the crimes
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: that they like they were in doing and it is
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: just chaos and there's possibly going to be like a
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: massive attack on Ukraine from Russia after they did that
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: amazing just sneaky tack and bombed everything. But yes, yes,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: that is that is the world right now, and so
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: there's a lot happening and who knows what will have
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: happened by the time this episode is out Like that
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: is wild. But yes, ah sure, I know what you're thinking, Katie,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: quite your jabber jabb or in fact me, in fact
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: you I will. But first we've got to get our
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: source on, and our sources are suits me The Double
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Life of Billy Tipton by Diane Middlebrook, The Strange Story
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: of Billy Tipton by Kit Boss, Billy Tipton, Self Made
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Man by Sally Lherman, Billy Tipton by Johnnyannis. And of
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: course we have our old favorites biography dot Com. I
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: use it in comfortably good. Then let's begin. So it
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: is Pride month, and obviously I want to focus this
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: month on LGBTQIA people. So last week we had Luisa
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: may Alcott, who I am fairly convinced was asexual and
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: that is my personal belief. And many other historians back
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: this up, or you know, back me up, well not
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: me personally, but back this theory up. Maybe some of
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: them back me up hymns to say. And so this
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: week I want to talk about Billy Tipton, who was
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: a jazz person. That's a jazz person, and they were
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: a trans man. Now, the biographer from the nineteen ninety
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: eight nineteen ninety nine biography suits me only refers to
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Billy as a woman and says that basically Bully pretended
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: to be a man to get forward in life. But
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: as far as I'm concerned, that biographer was a dick,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: So screw you, Diane liddlebook. Because here's the thing. There's
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: a difference between like cross dressing just to get ahead
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: and then living your life as a man like that's
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: a very different thing, and it's very demeaning and detrimental,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: I think to the trans community to try and paint
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: them in such a light, I think it feels like
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: it's an attempt to, unintentionally or not but invalidate, you know,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: their personhood. And I'm not about that. So yeah, Billy
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Lee Tipton was born on the twenty ninth of December
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: nineteen fourteen in Oklahoma City, in Oklahoma. I know you're shocked.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: And they started life as Dorothy, which is the one
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: and only time I will use the dead name Bill.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: His parents divorced when he was four, after which he
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: was not raised by either parent. Instead, he and his
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: younger brother were brought up by his aunt in Kansas City, Missouri.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: I listen, it is what it is. He attended Southwest
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: High School, where he was not allowed to join the
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: band because it was boys only. He was, however, allowed
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: in the orchestra. And like, he grows up like loving music,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: Like both his parents played the piano, and so he
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: kind of already had sort of musicality in the family.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: I was like, the family, like, this is a big
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: jazzy rat and they loved listening to like cake, what blues,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: rag time and such. And he has a radio in
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: his bedroom so he can listen to jazz at anytime.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: And I should probably clarify that the Tiptans are white.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: This is a white family, and I know that you
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: might think, well, it sounds like they could be people
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: of color. They do sound like that, but no, no,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: these jazz loving honkys just they just love jazz. And
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: so his aunt played piano as well, so you know
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: this would come in handy over the yells. So like
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: he gets called Tippy throughout school and he ends up
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: returning to Oklahoma to complete his final year. So he's
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: at Connor's State College High School, which confused me because
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: I'm like high school, state college what, because I clearly
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: do not understand the American education system. So yeah, he's
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: there at Connors State College High School where he did
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: join the band. And when Billy is about like nineteen
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: or so, he starts like binding his breasts and starts
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: acting a bit more masculine, shall we say. Like he's
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: living with his mum. They're back home in Oklahoma, and
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: she's not doing great financially, you know, because the Great
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Depression is happening, which is typically not a great time,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: you know, economically for a lot of people. And so
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: he's there, he's there living with her in Oklahoma, and
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: he has brought his saxophone because like Tippy Yale, he
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: would play the saxophone, the piano and the violin. One
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: is the difference between a violin and a fiddle? Is there?
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Like is it a string thing? It feels like it's
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: a string thing. So he's looking for work in a
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: band because he wants to like start raking in some money,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: and so he's doing odd bits and like orchestra radio spots,
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: or even like playing music to the interval at a
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: movie theater, which honestly, I think they should bring back
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: intervals because oh, if the snacks weren't so expensive, right,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: you'd get more so you'd go back and buy more
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: snacks because there'd be an interval. It'd be a good
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: time for everybody, wouldn't it. Yeah, especially during those damn
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: long movies like break Up the Day. So Billy is
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: actively trying to get work as a musician. However, Billy
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: at this point is still a bit female presenting, so
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: work was a little tougher because some of the places
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: that were hiring didn't want to hire women. And so
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: Billy gets some work at a honky tonk bar Greenland.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: But this didn't last long. And you might be saying
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: to yourself, a bar, what about prohibition, because like Great Depression, Prohibition,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: they're all interlinked, right, And everyone has heard me rant
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: and rave about how much I love wine bricks. They
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: are my favorite thing that has ever existed in the
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: history of history, like I love it. So Prohibition is
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: a period of time where you could not sell or
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: purchase alcohol for like most of the country, like the us. However,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: you could get BIA in Oklahoma City as long as
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: it was three point three percent or below. So it
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: had to have a three point three percent alcohol content
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: or less in order for you to be able to
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: like purchase and consume. And by nineteen thirty five, Billy
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: is male presenting, you know, wearing men's clothes. The chest
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: is bound and their hair is cut. Now, this wasn't
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: a misdoubt fire moment. He wasn't just pulling clothes out
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: of a closet, you know, because by now Billy was
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: living with two female cousins and his aunt. He wasn't
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: living with his brother. So he would have had to
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: go and either get male clothing or have male clothing made.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: It had to be tailored, it had to fit.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: Like.
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: This is pre like departments. So I mean some department
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: stores existed, but this was pre you know, clothes off
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: the rack. The majority of your clothing was made. That
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: being said, all clothing is handmade. Like, all clothing is
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: handmade because machines, like not not doing a French scene,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: you know, like that is a person who has made
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: your clothes. They are just skilled and have made them. Well.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: Unfortunately a lot of those people who are making your
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: clothes are not paid appropriately. And I shouldn't have to
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: tell you this sidebar, but you should know be paying
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: like three bucks for a T shirt because the material
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: alone is worth more of that. Like the only way
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: you can get a T shirt for three bucks is
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: one if it's secondhand or like more likely that it's
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: the result of slave labor. AnyWho. Billy had to have
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: clothes made to fit him, Like that's the be all
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: and end all the situation. And so he goes out
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: and tries to get work as a jazz musician, but
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: as a male one, and his family not too happy
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: about this. One aunt travels to see him to try
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: and get him to stop. His father straight up disowns him.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: Are we surprised, No, absolutely not, of course we're not.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: And his mum she's like kind of okay with it,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: and so like she's basically fine because he's on the
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: money and they're lip it's fine. So Billy ends up
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: moving out of home and into a bolding house. And
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: eventually as Mummery marries and Billy visits her like every
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: now and again, Like there's a lot of univisitation and communication,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: like they seem fairly chilled with this scenario. So Billy
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: gets some good saxophone work, playing in house bands and
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: clubs and all that jazz hang on. Anyway, Now, Billy,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: he wasn't just a great musician. He wasn't just talented
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: with you know, the ivory keys, like playing the fiddle,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: sort violin, the I was gonna say trumpet, Like as
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: far as I know, he doesn't play the trumpet, but
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: like the saxophone, the piano, and you know, the violin.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Not only is he just like a gifted musician, but
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: he's also like a really good performer, Like he's funny,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: he's ad libbing, he can crack jokes, like he's really
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: good at entertaining a crowd. Like he's just a really
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: good entertainer. And so he's in Oklahoma City for what
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: six years, making his living, you know, performing like as
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: a man, like as a jazz man, which sounds like
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: amazing until you remember that Billy Tipton grew up in
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: this city, and so there was a whole plethora of
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: people who knew Billy before they were male presenting, which
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: caused him issues. The best way I can describe it,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: like in the jazz scene, like he was doing well,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: but he was never going to do as well as
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: he could staying there. And so in nineteen forty one,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: Billy up sticks and moves to Joplin, Misery, and so
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: he moves there without anyone knowing his history, knowing his past,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: and so they only know Billy as he is from
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: that moment on. And from that moment on, Billy lives
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: his life as a man, which, as I said before,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: would be an incredibly peculiar thing to do if this
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: was just, you know, to get work, and wasn't your
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: life who you were, who you are, and like Billy
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: would exclusively have relationships with women like Billy lived their
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: entire life as a man, and to think of this
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: as just like some sort of you know, trick to
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: get work like is very extreme when you've been disowned
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: by members of your family, when it's incredibly dangerous for you.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: And certain was it illegal. I feel like it was illegal.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: Depending on the state, it may have been illegal. But yes,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: Billy Lee Tipton was Billy Lee Tipton. Billy Tipton. He
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: has moved to Joplin, Missouri, and he has joined a band,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: not just any band, but a band with what are
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: the names. These names are wild George Mayer and his
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: music so rare. It's an eight piece band fronted by
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: this is going to surprise you, George Mayer. Oh yeah,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: and Billy he's playing the saxophone. He's playing the piano,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: not the violin. I'm not sure it's jazz violin even
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: a thing. I don't really know that much about jazz.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: But anyway, he's playing for these like professional bands. He's
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: playing in clubs and whatnot. And so obviously the music
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: that he's playing is like the popular music of the day,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: and so it's quite sophisticated and it's it's all good.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: But Billy is feeling uninspired because he really wants to
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: challenge himself is a jazz musician, and he's not getting
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: that chance because he's playing just like the common music
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: of the era. But like he's he's known for being
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: a saxophone player, which is really interesting because he's fine,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Like he's a good saxophone player, right, he's good. But
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: the piano, he's really good at piano. The violin is
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: he kind of men, but like he is so good
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: at the piano and he would do stuff like play
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: the piano with his left hand and then also accompany
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: himself on the saxophone, which a saxophone is an instrument. Like, again,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: I'm not a big music person. I don't really get it.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: I don't get it. I don't I don't know how
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: to play an instrument, like it's a whole thing. But
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: as far as I'm aware, the saxophone is an instrument
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: that one needs two hands to play. So he's like
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: one handed saxophone, one handed piano, which is like it's
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: a bit of a gag, but also that's quite depressive,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: though I'm not gonna deny. So he knows how to
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: perform and put on an act, and so him and
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: George Mayer they develop an act together which is gonna
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: be kind of typical of what Bully's acts will be
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: like from that point on. So it's a lot of
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: like music and stuff to like dance to. I'm doing
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: like chicken wings right now, like I'm doing the chicken
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: wing movement because apparently that's what I think the dancing
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: movement is. So I was like, I was gonna be
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: like the Ragtime the Charleston, like they're doing all these
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: bits as if the Charleston isn't like ten years before,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: twenty years before. That's shut up. So there's a lot
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: of music and like in between their sort of comedy skits,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: like Billy called it monkey business. There's lots of monkey
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: business like comedy and impressions and stuff like It's like,
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: if you've ever listened to an old rat Pack like CD,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: it's the best thing I can I can compare it
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: to is like I say CD, as if the rat
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Pack was recording onto CDs and not LP's like, but
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: I actually had a rat Pack LP, not an LP
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: a CD for a long time. It was my Mum's
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: a stolen and it was it was a show.
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: And so like there is a bit and like they're Ryland,
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: like Sammy Davis Junior and Dan Martin and they're all
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: kind of like just being like skitty and silly and
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: like in some of their jokes made me laugh so hard,
• 20:52
  Speaker 4: because sometimes comedy can transcend, like something can Sometimes.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Something can be funny in the nine teen forties, nineteen fifties,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixties and still be funny in the next millennium. Right,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: sometimes it can. Okay, listen, we humans are simple creatures
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: at the end of the day. Sometimes we just want
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: a good laugh, and sometimes your comedy is clever enough
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: to do so. So yeah, that would be part of
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: this act that Billy and George would do. So. Also
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: in nineteen forty one, I don't know if you know this,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: but the USA entered the Second World War and you
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: had the draft, so people would be drafted to see people,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: men would be drafted into the army, and effectively every
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: able bodied man was supposed to be like taken in
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: like drafted. Now you were supposed to have your draft
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: card on you at all times, just in case, because
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: it was a whole thing, Like the concept of shame
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: is something a lot of people just don't get nowadays.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: But like your reputation would make or break you in life,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: like your word was your bond. If you had a
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: shitty reputation, you would be screwed. Like you may as well,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: you know, take a long walk off a short per,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Like there's a whole thing about it, Like shame was
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: such a massive cultural issue and now we don't have
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: shame at all. Nobody knows shame, not even the Catholics.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: So we like breathe it, you know, I say, as
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: if I'm not a recovering Catholic, but yeah, you had
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: your draft card on you and if you didn't, if
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: you were like dodging the draft, like it was a
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: huge issue, like you would be seen as less than.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: And however, Billy here manages to get his doctor to
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: give him a four F card, which basically means you
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: are like two like wrong to go to war, like
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: you're too sick. You've got I don't know, foot spalls
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: and osteoporosis and like all the other stuff. Now it's
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: the reason and I can't believe in bringing this up
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: that in Captain America First Avenger, it's the reason that
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: Steve Rogers wasn't allowed to join so like, which is
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: funny because like Steve Rogers is always like trying to
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: join the war and to be a hero. And Bucky
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Barnes got drafted, which is wild when you think about it,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: because Bucky Barnes just got forced into every fight he's
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: ever been any sort of like being pulled into it,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: where it's like Steve just like jumped into it. Anyway,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: that's another story for another day. Sorry, ex comic store
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: owner Habit, But yes, Billy has the for F card,
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: So it's like you're too sick and frail to go
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: to war. We don't want you. That being said, some
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: doctors would just be like, hey, I will just sign
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: you as being sick if you pay me, Like so
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, and so like here's the thing about this,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Billy is going to get questioned about, like why they
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: haven't been drafted, like he has we card and whatnot,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: which is fine, but he also needs to like talk
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: about it, like he needs to explain it because he's
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: going to get questioned, and so he uses this like
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: very opportune, right. He uses this to explain a few
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: other things about himself, Like he says he was in
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: a car accident and that his ribs were injurled, and
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: like this is the past. So of course people are like, okay,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: that makes sense. And so he says, due to the
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: specific injuries on his ribs, he is required to wear
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: like these special bandages for support, thus sort of covering
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: up the binding of the breasts, so the bibs are bound,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: they're the bandages on the chest, and so any sort
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: of peculiar if there was any shape issue there, it's like, oh,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: well that's just because of the injuries to my ribs
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: and the chest binding is not the only thing that
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: he's covering up here, like, it's not the only concept
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: that he's come up with. He also uses this as
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: the reason why he can't have biological children. He's like,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: my genitalia was also damaged in the car accident. Anyway,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: now that we've covered that. Billy would travel like with
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: the band, and they would travel around and do gigs
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: in places, so they'd stay in hotels and motels and
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: boarding houses and whatnot. Now, Billy being are really cool,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: dude had to dogs, and he would sometimes refer to
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: them as his kids in order to like sneak them
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: into the hotel room or the motel or whatever. He'd
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: be like, I'm looking in on, I got two kids
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: in the car, and they're like, we don't care. Take
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: your kene and go, and so he'd be like, come on, boys.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: And sometimes when they were traveling, like they would go
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: with other acts and they would perform together, and sometimes
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: they would work with a female magician, d Ladell, and
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: she was known as the fe Magician, which is a
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: name that was a choice, and they're like, look, she's
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: a magician and a woman who knew and so she
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: would travel with like a bunch of animals like Shaerone menagerie.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: So she would have like skunks and monkeys and rabbits
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: and chickens and they would feel like running around. She
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: would like just let them loose in her hotel room,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Like I just have this skunk and the chickens run
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: around wild. That's fine. I mean, here's the thing. I
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: feel like, sure the rabbits and the chickens or the monkey,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: like that does make sense, like on their own. This
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: skunk though, this skunk, Why are we letting the skunk
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: run around? Although that being said, I feel like I
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: might be being mean to skunks, like do they automatically spray?
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: I need to talk to like a zoologist or vet
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: or something, because like do they automatically spray? You should
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: be like automatically be worried about being skunked, Like is
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: that is that a reasonable fear? Or is it like finite?
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Is it that hard to get off? I've never been skunked,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: so I don't know, you know what a bit that's
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: a really weird old like kink thing as a weird
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: terminology called being skunked, and it's probably vile, it's probably
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: horrific and I'm like, I've never been skunked, and someone's
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: gonna use that as a SoundBite for something in like
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: ten years time. And I'm like, remember when you said this, Okay,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm gonna get I'm gonna get in
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: such trouble. I can sense it in my bones, my
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: old old lady bones. So she's causing chaos with this
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: whole fucking menagerie, right, And so Billy's dogs like goddamn
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: angels by comparison. It's so he would travel with her
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: and be like, look at this bitch here, but look
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: at how good my dog's are. Lose a good boopy,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: you'll be a good boopy. And so like, yeah, go
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: have fun, You're fine. And so like she's traveling, he's
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: getting about, and he's making a name for himself, and
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: like it get to the point that like he's like
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: the dude in the band, and so you've got bands
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: named after him. So it's like the Billy Tipton Trio,
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: the Billy Tipton Gourtet, Billy Tipton and friends, you know,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: And he's out there jazzing along, having a swell time.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: When a talent scout, here's the Billy Tipton Trio and
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: they get an audition with the Dorset Records Corporation in
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Los Angeles in nineteen fifty six, and they record their
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: first album called Sweet Georgia Brown. That is a name
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: for a thing. I don't know the relevance of that
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: specific name, but it feels a little load it, That's
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: all I'm saying. So they record a follow up, like
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: a follow up album which is called Billy Tipton plies
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Hi Fi on Piano, which is an accurate description of
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: what is happening. And so they get like some success
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: and Billy makes what I give you grand out of it.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: And as a musician, it's always good to be paid,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: like as a general rule, so they're gonna be a
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: bit of money, but it's not the main thing because
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: what they do get more of is publicity, and so
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: they get better chops, they're able to like sell out
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: more venues. They get paid better, and so they get
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: offered like a house band position for a hotel in Nevada,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: and that's like where the big dogs place. And you're
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: talking like people like what LIBERACEI, for example, like the
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: big famous people they would play in these hotels, like
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: not often like occasionally, but like it was one of
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: the better places to be and so this is the
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: break that they're looking for. This is like a golden opportunity.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: But Billy looks the gift horse in the mouth and
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: says nope. And his bandmates are pissed because they're like,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: this is this is a golden ticket, this is money,
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: this is fame, this is you know, us being set
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: for a decent amount of time. But Billy, Billy had
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: been offered work as a booking manager.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: In Spokane in Washington with playing clubs on the side,
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: which meant he wouldn't be touring as much because it
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: seemed like that was getting a bit tiring for him.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: And also when you're traveling and you're going from place
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: to place, when you have that much movement and you
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: are that well known, it put him in a more
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: precarious possession because it meant, you know, there were so
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: many more opportunities for being discovered. Like even a wife
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: of like one of the musicians who traveled with them
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: said that, like, I'm from California, and like we noticed
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: these things in California. So basically they were saying that
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: they would have known that that Billy was assigned female
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: at buff like in California, everyone would have figured it
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: out like straight away, and so things like this or
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: like really played on Billy's mind. And they were so
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: worried about being discovered, and like even as he was
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: traveling and touring, like sometimes he would meet people who
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: knew him before before like he was male presenting, and
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: so this would cause like more issues and it all
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: just I think just started playing on him. And so yes,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: he takes his job as a booking manager. He's playing
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: clubs in the set and the music he's playing it's
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: not like is challenging. It's like a step down to
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: what he wants to be playing. And he's essentially just
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: doing background music in these clubs and he's just kind
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: of existing there. And so basically this puts his career
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: on hold, or say on hold, it freezes it effectively.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: And by what nineteen sixty five, the band is only
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: really playing Link sporadically and he's not really being a
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: musician much anymore, and he's working as a booking manager.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: And so that's like the career side of things. And
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: now we've got that out of the way, it's time
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: to talk about the missus Tipton's. Let me take you
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: back in time to a boarding house in Oklahoma City
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: where Billy Tipton is first starting to live as a man.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: They've left their mother's home and they're living in this
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: boarding house where they meet non Errol Harrol. That is
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: her name, non Errol, so non Earl Harrel. She is
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: a marathon dancer, which is like marathon dancers is when
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: couples would start like dancing, they would do like I
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: don't know, the Chiba of the give the Charleston whatever.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: They would dance until the last couple standing. And so
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: these marathon dances they would last for days, sometimes even weeks.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: And this is what she was. And so the two
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: of them, they were roommates, so they were roomen together
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: in the boarding house, and you know, they acted like
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: a couple. So they would refer to themselves as like
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: mister and missus Tipton. And when Billy moves to drop
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: on Missouri, none Earl comes with him, and to everyone there,
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: they are mister and missus Tipton. Not obviously they're not
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: legally married because Billy lead up and doesn't have any
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: legal documentation with that name on it. So yeah, they
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: just start representing themselves as husband and wife. Now in
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: nineteen forty three, you know, their romance fizzles out and
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: none of Hell moves back to Oklahoma City. And it's
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: during this same year that Billy meets June. Now we
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: don't really know much about June other than her and
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: Billy get a Pekinese together called Troubles. So they have
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: a dog called Troubles and a monkey, which I could
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: not find the name of, but there was a monkey.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: And sometimes when Billy would be doing a show, like
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: June would come and watch the gig, she'd sit in
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: the club, the dog would be at home. She'd be
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: in the club watching him playing, and the monkey would
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: be alone in the car. The monkey didn't like being
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: alone in the car, and so often when they would
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: come out after a gig, the monkey would have torn
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: the crap out of some of the seats. Now, there
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: was one time they came out and the monkey had
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: completely like, yeah, I think the direct quote was it
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: looked like there was a snowstorm in the car because
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the monkey had completely destroyed the seats, like ruined all
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: the upholstery. And so June and Billy they were together
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: for three years they represent themselves as mister and Missus Tipton,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: and then nineteen forty six June they break up, right
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: and Billy keeps the Pekanese troubles and June, I mean,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: June came to the relationship with the monkey, and so
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: June leaves the relationship with the monkey. Now we don't
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: know exactly what June knew about Billy's life like everything,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: but like after they broke up, like June would often
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: go around saying that Billy was a hermaphrodite. So I
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: don't know if this was like just an explanation of
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: what her understanding was, or whether it was like if
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: she believed that Billy was into sex, or if this
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: was just a way to like attack Billy post breakup.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Hymn's to say. Now, Billy never took June back to
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: meet his family, but he did meet hers, and like
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: up until the nineteen sixties, like he was still sending
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: like gifts and cards to her mother, which is just
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: really really sweet. So when June exits stage left, who
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: enters but Betty coos Missus Tipton number three, So June's gone,
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: and Billy just starts inviting Betty over come visit me
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: and my dog real sad, and so Betty's like, yeah,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: this is fine. And so he gets on really well
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: with Betty's mom, like they have a really good relationship.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: And Betty she says herself that she wasn't worldly enough
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: to understand like everything that was going on at that point,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: and she was unaware that Billy was a fab right
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: assigned female at buff and after June definitely, Billy never
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: never told any of his female partners this, like that
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: was just something that he kept to himself and that
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: he would just consistently portray himself as a man in
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: every capacity. And when they break up, like he stays
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: close with her mom, like up until the sixties, he's
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: sending her mom like gifts and cards just consistently. But
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: when him and Betty are together, like he gets her
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: this dog, this puppy called boots Loo, and boots Loo
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: in Troubles they didn't get on. I said, they didn't
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: get on Troubles did not like this puppy, and it's
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: like they just have this spatin June. Of course, June
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: shows up saying I have visitation rights to the dog,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: and so she stays for four days like just in
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Billy's like abode just to be like, this is my dog.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: I'm visiting the dog. Nothing to do with you and
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: then your girlfriend or anything. I'm here for the dog.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: But yeah, Billy and Betty they are together for like
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: seven years and they only break up in nineteen fifty four.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: And Beery she traveled around with the band for a bit,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: and she found this just really exhausting. She just wasn't
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: for her. All of the tr traveling and touring was
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: really tiring. But if she wasn't traveling with them, then
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: she was just spending a lot of time at home
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: alone and so there wasn't like much for her to do.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Either way. She was either going to be exhausted or
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: be without her husband for months on end. And then
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: in fifty four she's like it's too much, I'm done,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: and so they break up and pretty sharpish, Billy is
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: in another relationship, like the man cannot be single, Like, dude,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: you can exist with that relationship, like you don't need
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: someone to make you happy AnyWho. Billy gets into a
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: relationship with mary Anne, and mary Anne lives into like
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: a town that Billy just passes through on the regular,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: and so him and Mary Anne. They get three Pomeranians.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: At this point, Troubles the dog had passed away Bets
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: Lou I'm fairy or Boots Lou I'm fairly certain was
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: with Betty. And so you have Timmy, Tinker, and Tippy,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: the three dogs. That's the Pekinese and then the Pomeranians.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: These guys really like the lee tiny dogs. And so
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: he moves to Spokane with Mary Anne and it's like,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: is this the reason why he gave up his big break?
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: And that was wife number four? So this is the
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: one that he sort of settled down with. So they're
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: living together, they've got three dogs, and then he ends
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: up leaving her for Kitty. Thank you baby for being
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: involved in this week's podcast. She wanted to be involved,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: so she's like, can I say something? I'm like, yeah,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: you can. You can say this. So Kitty is a
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: burlesque answer in one of the clubs that Billy is
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: playing at. So basically what would happen is you've got
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: like burlesque acts and strippers and they would perform and
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: because the majority of the custom malls at these establishments
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: will not exactly gentlemen, when they would finish their act
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: at the end of the night when they were walking
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: back to their cars. A lot of the time, like
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: musicians would accompany them for safety. So the male musicians
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: would accompany the female like strip balls, burlesque acts, dancers, whatnot.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: They would be accompanied back to their cars. And so
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Billy would do this for Kitty, and the two of
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: them started like flirting at work, like they're sending each
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: other like letters. And so Billy's writing these six litters,
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: the sixty litters, they'll six it. You've got one, It's like,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: this is my favorite. He's got one that goes my
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: Typotter has a contract on it. And I'm doing this
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: by hand. I've been doing it by hand for some
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: time now. Like in sixty one, he commissions an oil
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: painting of Kitty completely starkles so in the nude lying
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: on a beach with a volcano erupting in the background. Now,
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: subtlety is clearly not a strong point here. That being said,
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: if someone were to commission a painting of main nude
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: lying on a beach with a volcano erupting in the background,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I wouldn't say no. Actually depends on
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: who it was, Like it would depend on who it was.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: If it was somebody I didn't know, I think it
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: might be weird. There's like a random Pearson commission in
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: a naked picture. It would be a bit odd anyway.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: So Billy and Kitty they have like an actual wedding
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty two on the seventeenth of March nineteen
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: sixty two, Saint Patrick's Day, and so it's it's like,
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: I feel it's not registered. It's not a registeral wedding,
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: but they have like you know, the walking down the
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: aisle and all this stuff, the bouquet and so yeah,
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: the Justice of the Piece's signature was forged, and Kitties
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: like Bill sorted it out. And Bill's just like yeah,
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: like she didn't know it wasn't a legal marriage and
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: she wasn't known that, like it was just faked by
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Billy because of course no legal id for Billy there
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: and so couldn't register their marriage. Now here's the thing,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: like he could have done a whole thing about being
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: like a common law man and wife, like I never
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: got divorced from like my previous wife or whatever. He
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: could have just like danced around it. But yeah, there
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: was a bunch of stuff he did to kind of
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: cover up up well being a fab right, So a
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: lot of the time, like the previous wives reported that
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: he would never get like completely nude in front of them,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: like he would use the car accident, is you know
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: a reason for all the bindings and for you know,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: the lack of a penis best way I can describe it,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Like there had been an issue, and like he would
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: shave in the morning or make it appear like he
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: was shaving in the morning. So his wife would be like, well,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: they got up and shaved his beard every day. And
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: you might be thinking to yourselves, well, what about doing
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: the do like, how did that go about? Well, it
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: seems to be as far as I can tell. So
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: several of the wives who have come forward, like Maryanne
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: and Betty, like they would talk about how he would
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: always use a condom. He would always have a you
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: can always have a rough him. I always have a rabbi,
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: And so it would appear that they had like Billy
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: had a strap on or a dildo of some sort,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: and so they would also have a condom onic just
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: for posterity, I suppose more than anything else. And so yeah,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: and Mari Anne, like at one point goes, well, clearly
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: he had a prosthetic because you know of his injury,
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: and that's that was about. And I didn't want to
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: like hurt him or offend him by that, like, which
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: is very good of Mary Anne and very fair. Now,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: Kitty Kitty, the burlesque dancer, she claims that they were
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: never like intimate at all. They never had sex. Now,
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Kitty Kitty is adamant that her and Billy were never
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: like sexually intimate, like that wasn't something that ever happened
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: in that there was no way that any of the
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: other wives wouldn't have known. It was like a whole thing.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: And so Kerry like she she'd actually injured her back,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: like not long after they got married, and they were
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: sleeping in separate beds, which you know, fair enough, and
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: also she may not want it to be like that
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: kind of intimate with them, but the two of them
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: are writing each other like very filthy, very hot messages,
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: and like they have names with little genitals, like so
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Billy says is penis is called Percy, which is fair,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: and then she's like the vagina is called hortense, and
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: it's like m Percy missus hortense Percy missus hortense Percy
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: wants to get all up in hortense and like with
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: all of these like really naughty dotty messages, it's it's
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: sort of strange to assume that they were not intimate,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: although that being set, like, there's always the argument that
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: that was the type of like intimacy that worked for
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: both of them, like in written form and not physical,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: because Kitty had been assaulted before and there's every possibility
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: that that kind of thing, that being sexually active with
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: another person wasn't something she wanted anymore. But whom's to say, Like,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: we weren't in that relationship, so we don't know. Now,
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: this could have been a way for Kitty to like
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: cover her tracks or you know what, just like protect
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: herself by going, oh no, we definitely didn't do u
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: uh uh. Yeah. So anyway, Billy wants kids, and so
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: they privately adopt three children. So baby number one was
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: born on the nineteenth of October nineteen sixty three, and
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: so Billy just comes home one day from work and
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: Kitty is there holding a baby, and Billy is just
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: like so overwhelmed by this, like he doesn't even take
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: off his raincoat. He's just like they're on the ground
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: and just like rocking this baby, baby John Thomas. And
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: this is the point where he's still like gigging quite often.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: And so by the time he's finished up, he's coming
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: home at like two half two in the morning, and
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: so he'll come in and he'll give the baby like
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: it's nighttime fade and so yeah, it means that she
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: gets a good sleep. It means that he's feeding the baby,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: and the two of them are just going well together.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: So then in nineteen sixty five there's this child all
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: an acquaintance of Billies. Billy hears about it and that
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: the child doesn't foster care and it wasn't being treated
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: very well. And this kid is six weeks older than
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: their own son than John Thomas, and so they adopt
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: him and they name him Scottly Scotte Scott Lee. And
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: so he shows up and this kid is mock It
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: is absolutely dirty. And so it takes the months for
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: this kid to become comfortable in their home. And so
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: like they make sure he is well fed, they make
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: sure he is washed, they make sure he is happy.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: And then in sixty nine they adopt their last child,
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: and so the mom of this kid, they had heard that,
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: you know, they had adopted these other two, and so
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: she's like, please, can you take my boy? And so
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: they adopt William Allen nicknaming him Little Billy. So three
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: years after this, Billy's mom passes away. Now his aunt Cora,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: this is the one that was like, don't go traveling
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: as a man. So she never really accepted Billy as
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: the person that they are. And so when Billy's mom
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: passes away, her sister she phones and she asks for Billy,
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: but they ask for Billy by their dead name. Here's
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: the thing. The person who answered the phone was Eileen,
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: Billy's cousin, and Aileen doesn't really give anything away, doesn't
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: really conform or deny, like who is that you know
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: they're looking for? And they're like, oh, they're resting. Oh
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: this is like this. And then it's like great, I
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: guess we'll have to go get them. And here's the thing.
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: Kitty's picks up the phone and goes, this is Billy's mother,
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: and so Aunt Cora is just like, go get him,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: go get them up.
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: Yeahda YadA YadA, And it's like, you can't tell me
• 52:13
  Speaker 5: you can't speak to this and so this like Kitty's
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: Mom's like, I'm Billy's mother, so yeah, suck it up, right,
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: deal with me.
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: Kitty claims to have no knowledge of this phone call,
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: but I love that, Like her mom was like, you
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: know what, you know what, I know what's going on,
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: but see you you can go shove it. That is
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: an ally right there, friends, But yes, Billy goes to
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: his mother's funeral, right, and his family they're still not
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: very comfortable with Billy's existence of a life as a man, right,
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: and it's not they're not great. However, his cousin's Aileen
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: and Madline, they're a bit less bad than the rest.
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: They're like slightly more accepting. They have a perception about it,
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: but they're like kind of chill. And so Billy's chatting
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: to his cousins and they're talking about like family and stuff,
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: and he shares with them that he's worried that he
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: has emphasymak because he's got like shortness of breath and
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: all this stuff. But he doesn't go to a doctor
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: for obvious reasons, and so he's worried about being seen
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: and having like his secret come out. Now eventually the
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: relationship with Kitty falls apart. Now, Kitty says it's because
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: Billy was gutless because as the boys grew into teenagers,
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: they became like rebellious, hormonal teenage boys, and Billy wasn't
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: disciplining them, and so she was forced to be the
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: disciplinarian and that wasn't a role that she wanted, and
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: so it got to the point where she was overwhelmed
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: and she would end up like screaming at the boys,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: to the point that there was a kid who lived
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: next door who was terrified of the sound of her voice.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: And so there was an incident where one of the
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: boys they went to hit her and she like pushes
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: one over and knocks another one down, and Billy doesn't
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: get involved. What he does do is take two of
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: the boys to the older boys out of the house
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: for the night and they sleep in a motel, and
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: the next day he pues a mobile home and soon
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: after that him and the boys just like who live
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: together in this mobile home. And Kitty and Billy they
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: eventually divorce, like in eighty one. And it's not an
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: a visual divorce because you know, it's not an official marriage.
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: She said, that she'd been given papers and she'd let
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: him take care of it, and so like the theory
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: is that he just like forged some paperwork. Now at
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: this point, Billy Tipton is struggling, like for work. He's
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: not really playing music anymore. He's just working at the
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: booking agency and it's slowly going at a business. And
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: by eighty four he's in debt, a lot of debt,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: and a lot of the money that he's meant to
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: be making comes from booking musicians and then taking a
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: commission when they get paid. But like he was really
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: bad at chasing up the commissions because like he felt
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: bad about it. So people just didn't pay him. And
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: so his sons, like they're teenagers at this point and
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: they're taking money off them. And he's entitled to social
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: Security at this point, but he doesn't want to rest
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: claiming it, and so he's just living below the breadline.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: And the following year, two of the boys move out
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: and they're twenty two, So Scott and John they move out,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: and the youngest son, little Billy, like, they live together
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: for a year or so, and so with the two
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: of them, like Billy and Little Billy like they're playing piano,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: like he's teaching them how to play the piano, and
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: they're having jam sessions together. And at this point Billy
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: Tipton's got like quite bad arthritis, so he's only really
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: doing these like we jam sessions with his son. And
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: he's still really talented, but it's it's not as it
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: was because he's in so much pain when he's playing.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: And so Christmas comes along and they get a dog,
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: a Labrador, which is nice because it's a big dog
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: as opposed.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: To these tiny things.
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: I do not know this dog's name. If you know
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: this dog's name, feel free to let me know. So
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: the fall up year, little Billy he starts doing drugs
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: and this this doesn't sit well and so he ends
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: up moving out and Billy tipped in. He's unwell, he's
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: short of breath all the time and his health is
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: just getting worse. Like his friends, his coworkers, they're all
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: trying to get him to see a doctor and he refuses.
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: So somewhere along this point he gets rid of his
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: chest bindings. Like all of them, any of like the dildos,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: the prothetics, the strap ons, all them, they just disappear.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: None of that is in his possession. I think that
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: he was close to the end of life and he
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: was aware of it, and so he didn't want to
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: risk like this being found. Like Billy's aware that people
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: are going to go through with stuff like to find things.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: And so he ends up talking to his cousins and
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: he tells them to like he needs to be cremated.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: He wants to just disappear. He wants to die a man,
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: like he wants to end his life as a man,
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: because you know, that's who he is, and he doesn't
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: want to risk anything coming out. And here's the thing.
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: His cousins are like, just live with us, Like you're
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: not doing music anymore. You don't need to pretend to
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: be a man, like, which is what like there assumptionist, Like,
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: come live with us, live as a woman. You know,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: we can get you to a doctor, we can get
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: you sordid. And instead of that, Billy chooses to live
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: through the rest of his life as a man. Now.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: In January of nineteen eighty nine, Little Billy he's visiting
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: his dad and he is sick of his dad, like
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: arguing about not seeing a doctor, and he's like, no,
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: I'm getting you to a doctor, and so he calls
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: the paramedics, but by the time the paramedics get there,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Billy has passed away. So basically the paramedics show up
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: and the first thing they do is they unbutton his
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: shirt because obviously they want to do CPR and stuff
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: and all that, and so they unbuttoned the shirt and
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: the first thing they said a little Billy is did
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: your father have a sex change? And Billy has seen
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: his father's naked chest for the first time and has
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: to go step outside, and yeah, he's in shock because
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: like his dad has died, and then this happens and
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: it's a lot for him to take in. And the
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: autopsy report stated that this was the body of a
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: normal biological female. The coroner signed it, then called a
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: local journalist and said, I have a story for you.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: Get ahold of this dead certificate. Meanwhile, Kitty had contacted
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: a funeral director and basically swore him to secrecy and
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: arranged for a commation like trying to like sweep this
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: under the rug as quickly as possible. She also managed
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: to find out that the coroner had contacted the paper,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: and so she calls the editor that was planning to
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: run the story and demands that they respect the family's privacy. However,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: John Thomas had already agreed to be interviewed, and they
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: saw this as family permission, and so the story was published.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: And so Kitty, she says she'd never known they you know,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: they were never physically intimate, and her older sons are
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: like just basically dragging her in the press. And whether
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: it's some kind of self preservation or because of her
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: love for Billy when it was there, she's working hard
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: to protect his reputation and his life. Meanwhile, the older
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: sons sell the rights to a film company, a film
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: which was never made. And here's the thing, from the
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: perspective of these boys, it's probably not the worst idea
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: that this film hasn't been made, because I don't think
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: it should if it's not going to give Billy Tipton
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: respect and consideration and empathy. So he was cremated and
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: his ashes were divided between the older sons and the
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: other half between little Billy and Kitty, and the majority
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: of his assets, like his will, everything is like the
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: majority of stuff is left to little Billy. He gets, like,
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: you know, stuff from his career. Saxophones, John and Scott
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: get a dollar each, like they get a taller each,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: because if they get something, it means they haven't been
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: left out of the will, and it's sort of a
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: way to stop them contesting it. And so the biographer
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: of Like Suits me Dan Middlebrook, Like, she has this
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: whole opinion that Billy Tipton was just like an actor
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: who was a lying liar who lied to everyone and
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: basically had this whole facade. And so when she was
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: interviewing people, she was asking them if they felt deceived,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: if they felt lied to, and near enough every person,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: like Loretta, who's Betty's sister, she talks about how Billy
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: was a loving, caring man, considerate. And you find this
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: throughout the majority of the people who came into contact
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: with Billy, that he was a genuinely kind person. And
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: a load of the musicians who were contacted, like a
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: bunch of them were just like, not our business. They're like,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: Billy Tipton is Billy Tipton. That's the man playing the piano.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: Nothing to do with us, that's just Billy. Like the
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: whole idea is that even if they knew, they weren't
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: saying shit because to them it didn't matter because Billy
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: to them was Billy Tipton. He was their friend, he
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: was their collaborator, he was they're dude. And so Billy
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: Tipton was loved, respected, revered and lived his life as
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: a man and wanted to live their life as a man.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: And even though the terminology and whatnot, we you know,
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: didn't have then, but for him, he saw himself as
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: a man and to represent him as anything else is
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: disingenuous and disrespectful, but so ends the story of Billy
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 1: Lee Tipton. If you liked my telling of this story,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: which is different to my usual stuff because normally I
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: do everything gumblee chronological, but I splitted this too like
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: professional and personal this time. But yeah, that is a
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: story of Billy Lee Tipton. Feel free to re interview
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: five stars if you don't want to, you know, give
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: me five stars. You don't have to see anything sh
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: nobody wants to hear it. I hope you liked this
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: telling for Pride Month, which means we have at least
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: two more to cover, and one I've wanted to talk
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: about for a long time and I keep meaning to
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: cover but it just hasn't worked out for me one
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: way or the other. But I'm really excited because it
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: actually covers two of the important themes of this month. Actually.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: But yes, you can follow me on all the socials.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: You can if you want to give me episode recommend
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: to I know I've been getting a few of those
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: recently and I am working towards getting them. Thank you
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: to everyone who's been joining the Patreon. The Boston show
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: is up there. Listen to it with headphones on. That's
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: the best way to do it. Otherwise you can't hear anything.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: Don't ask me why. Something to do with the way
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: the recording transferred. So, yeah, there's a few more stuff
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: coming out this month.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: I have news coming out next couple weeks and yeah,
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: it's going to be a good time. But it is
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: recommendation time, so for reading you know what, I've recommended
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: it before, I'm gonna recommend it again. It's Pride month,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: so support your LGBTQI authors. Let me tell you about
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: Gareth Russell and his book Queen James. So it's about
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: King James the sixth of Scotland and Foster of England.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: It is a damn fine book by a damn fine
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: so read it.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: It's great for watching. Go watch other performances from the
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: Tony Awards. Go do that, They're great. I watched the
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: Hamilton One several times over and over. It was a
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: good time for me. Although with everything going on at
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: the minute, my automatic thought is because costumes are incredibly important.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: Is I'm looking at David Diggs beret and I'm like,
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: that was a choice. And I don't know whether it's
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: to represent Lafayette as a general, or whether it's to
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: represent stuff happening in the country right now. AnyWho, Lessening,
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 1: ooh for Lestening. You know what, I'm gonna recommend the
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: Stay Hydrated podcast. I think it's just it's just a
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: real breath of fresh air for me. I really enjoy it.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 6: So enjoy, and with that I shall bid you good evening.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 6: Adios au revoir of Weidas and my friends.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: Bye bye,