Latest / Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40 / Can You Eat "Clean" Without Food Guilt in an Ultra-Processed World? (Alana Bonnemann) | Ep 328

Transcript

Can You Eat "Clean" Without Food Guilt in an Ultra-Processed World? (Alana Bonnemann) | Ep 328 · Wits & Weights | Strength & Fat Loss Over 40

• 0:01
  Philip Pape: If you've ever looked at your grocery list and wondered, am I buying the right foods?
• 0:04
  Philip Pape: And you've read every ingredient label, or you feel guilty about enjoying meals of friends because they don't fit your clean standards, this episode is for you.
• 0:13
  Philip Pape: The rise of social media gurus has created a culture of fear around food, where everything seems potentially harmful, from anything in a package to even fresh fruits and vegetables.
• 0:24
  Philip Pape: Potentially harmful from anything in a package to even fresh fruits and vegetables.
• 0:27
  Philip Pape: My guest today reveals why this fear-based approach to eating might be worse for your health than the occasional indulgence.
• 0:31
  Philip Pape: You'll discover what's more important than perfectly adhering to your diet, how to navigate grocery shopping without paranoia and some tips to enjoy eating again without sacrificing your health and fitness goals.
• 0:42
  Philip Pape: Stop letting food fear control your life and learn how to build sustainable, enjoyable eating habits that actually improve your health long-term.
• 0:50
  Philip Pape: Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that helps you build a strong, healthy physique using evidence, engineering and efficiency.
• 1:03
  Philip Pape: I'm your host, philip Pape, and today we're discussing how to make food choices in our modern world without falling prey to fear, guilt and obsession.
• 1:12
  Philip Pape: In a food environment dominated by processing, by ultra-palatability hard word to say and with social media constantly bombarding us with confusing and conflicting nutrition advice.
• 1:24
  Philip Pape: Many people are scared of their food choices.
• 1:27
  Philip Pape: My guest today is Alana Bonneman, a naturopathic nutritionist who specializes in helping women reconnect with their bodies and find sustainable approaches to nutrition, which is what we're all about here as well.
• 1:39
  Philip Pape: She guides clients away from restrictive diets and toward nourishing foods that support abundant energy, balanced hormones and optimal health, and she is the host of the Health After 30 podcast, so give that a follow, because there's a conversation with us on there as well.
• 1:53
  Philip Pape: Today, you'll learn why your relationship with food matters more than perfect adherence to clean eating, how to approach processed foods without fear, and some tips to make food choices that work for your lifestyle and health goals.
• 2:05
  Philip Pape: Alana, good to see you again.
• 2:07
  Philip Pape: Welcome back.
• 2:07
  Philip Pape: Welcome to the show.
• 2:09
  Alana Bonnemann: Yeah, thank you, Welcome back yeah we just had a wonderful episode on the Health After 30 as well, so it's really good to be here.
• 2:16
  Philip Pape: So on that show we talked about lifting, we talked about nutrition and lifestyle and all that.
• 2:20
  Philip Pape: Today, I really want to dig into the topic of food fear and the environment and kind of how people make choices.
• 2:26
  Philip Pape: The first question that comes to mind then is, like what is going on when people are afraid of food?
• 2:32
  Philip Pape: Like why is that even a thing?
• 2:34
  Philip Pape: Let's start there.
• 2:36
  Alana Bonnemann: Well, I mean, that's a learned behavior, right.
• 2:38
  Alana Bonnemann: Why are we afraid of food?
• 2:40
  Alana Bonnemann: And that comes down to, perhaps, the psyche of things.
• 2:44
  Alana Bonnemann: Also, perhaps we could even go into the food rules that we've been taught.
• 2:49
  Alana Bonnemann: So this comes not only from society and Instagram and all the rest of it, but also what we've been taught at home.
• 2:55
  Alana Bonnemann: If you've ever heard or maybe you might even say it yourself no, you probably don't, but it's something that I definitely heard when I was growing up up that you need to finish all the food on your plate in order to get dessert.
• 3:08
  Alana Bonnemann: You know things like this, or yeah, you have to.
• 3:11
  Alana Bonnemann: What's another?
• 3:12
  Philip Pape: food rule yeah, clean your plate.
• 3:13
  Philip Pape: No, you're right yeah, yeah.
• 3:15
  Alana Bonnemann: My grandmother would always say you know, if you leave any rice on your plate, that's the amount of holes that your partner's going to have in their face when they're older, like terrible, why that's so arbitrary.
• 3:25
  Alana Bonnemann: So we kind of grow up with these understandings of what food is.
• 3:31
  Alana Bonnemann: And also, you know, finishing a plate in order to get dessert, that means it's also putting this dessert and sweet stuff on a pedestal as well.
• 3:38
  Alana Bonnemann: So this distorted idea of what food is and how it serves us and how we should be eating it, rather than what we think we should be eating, becomes really, really difficult.
• 3:50
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, and there's a should in there that I think is important, the word should and rules, and that really hits me hard because you and I were chatting, I think, off the record about just our history with that.
• 4:00
  Philip Pape: So then the converse of this is like what would a world look like where people didn't have fear, guilt, morality related to food?
• 4:10
  Philip Pape: Like what is that ideal vision If there was never any of this conditioning these food rules, anything else, what would that look like to you?
• 4:16
  Alana Bonnemann: The thing is you know what you feel good on.
• 4:18
  Alana Bonnemann: If you pay attention, you will know what foods make you feel light and agile and focused and full of energy and vitality.
• 4:29
  Alana Bonnemann: And you know the foods that don't make you feel that way.
• 4:32
  Alana Bonnemann: It's just that in today's society, when that's set up, the foods that don't make us feel so good, so that means perhaps sluggish, constipated, bloated, sedative you know, in a way they're just really delicious and they're designed to be delicious and that's not with your health in mind.
• 4:49
  Alana Bonnemann: That's obviously in the minds to make, make money or make business or, you know, just to basically sell things that are delicious.
• 4:57
  Alana Bonnemann: This is not to say that those things are bad.
• 5:00
  Alana Bonnemann: Food is food.
• 5:02
  Alana Bonnemann: It comes down to okay, how much should can we, how much do we thrive on of that?
• 5:08
  Alana Bonnemann: And that comes down to the ability to be able to listen to your body.
• 5:12
  Alana Bonnemann: So when you say how does an ideal world look like?
• 5:15
  Alana Bonnemann: It's different for everyone, because everyone needs different things.
• 5:18
  Alana Bonnemann: How much do you exercise?
• 5:19
  Alana Bonnemann: How much do you move?
• 5:20
  Alana Bonnemann: How's your stress levels?
• 5:21
  Alana Bonnemann: Where are you at in what stage of your life depends on how much we need to be eating.
• 5:24
  Alana Bonnemann: But knowing what foods you thrive on and what foods you don't, and if you went a little bit there then you would get a good understanding of what you should be eating.
• 5:36
  Philip Pape: Two corollary questions come up from this Cause.
• 5:38
  Philip Pape: I love.
• 5:38
  Philip Pape: I love how you got into that, like you know what you feel good on.
• 5:41
  Philip Pape: The first question that comes to mind people might wonder is what if someone has been eating a certain way for so long that, at least in their own narrative or their mind, they don't feel that that's true, that they can't claim that they know what they feel good on, perhaps because they haven't given themselves the opportunity to see the difference?
• 5:59
  Philip Pape: Is that a thing?
• 6:02
  Alana Bonnemann: So they've been following dogmatically we talked about as well a certain way.
• 6:06
  Alana Bonnemann: So perhaps what's their goal there and why are they doing it and are they feeling their best?
• 6:13
  Alana Bonnemann: And it's often funny if you ask people like how are you, how is your life, we usually will answer oh well, as an Australian, we answer yeah, great, everything's good, I feel well, I feel productive.
• 6:26
  Alana Bonnemann: But if you start to strip things back and you dive into well, how are we sleeping for women?
• 6:33
  Alana Bonnemann: How are you menstruating?
• 6:34
  Alana Bonnemann: How are your bowel movements?
• 6:35
  Alana Bonnemann: How is your energy?
• 6:37
  Alana Bonnemann: Do you need to rely on coffee to get through the day?
• 6:41
  Alana Bonnemann: If you start to kind of dig into that, then you might get some clues into what's working and perhaps what's not working as well.
• 6:48
  Alana Bonnemann: So a lot of the time when checking into your body which I think it really comes down to understanding what you need is getting in contact with your body, which is, let's be fair, a lost art.
• 7:00
  Alana Bonnemann: We don't know how to do it because it's kind of been drummed out of us or you know, just basically forgotten is our mind takes over.
• 7:09
  Alana Bonnemann: So if we're reading all the literature which I know is important and we need to know we need to know what's happening and how our bodies function and how different things work in our bodies.
• 7:16
  Alana Bonnemann: This is why the academic side of nutritional science is so wonderful, but if we just rely on that and we believe or we kind of put ourselves into that statistic of what that certain research says, it takes us away from us knowing what we need, what you need, what the individual needs.
• 7:36
  Alana Bonnemann: So I think at the base of this, it comes down to trust, understanding and feeling how to trust yourself and to be able to let go of things that you think might be serving you, perhaps are serving you but also might not be serving you.
• 7:54
  Alana Bonnemann: What you said really nicely on my podcast was you know you can take everything away but then reintroduce things, start to bring things in and see, you know if your world crashes you didn't say that, but you know.
• 8:09
  Alana Bonnemann: Basically, see if things crumble and I I really agree with that approach and if you've been living in a restricted, start to bring things in and see how it works and then you can go from there.
• 8:19
  Philip Pape: Yeah.
• 8:19
  Philip Pape: So what you're saying, from what I hear, is being intentional and taking a moment to breathe and think and reflect on your life, because I think people do make the excuse, maybe about their food choices or their habits, and that's okay, right, like people, that's human behavior.
• 8:37
  Philip Pape: But then to say, okay, I need to look at how, when I eat that protein bar, when I eat this food or drink this at this time of day, what is the cascade of data?
• 8:48
  Philip Pape: I'll call it data is what you're telling me.
• 8:50
  Philip Pape: It's funny Cause we we joke about, like me being the sciencey guy and you being more fluid, but at the end of the day, we're still being intentional and observing and at the end, that's that's what data is right.
• 8:59
  Philip Pape: So, to trust yourself, you want to define yourself and your identity and what's happening in this moment, and then it sounds like you can make changes from there.
• 9:13
  Philip Pape: Let me ask you this you mentioned how food science and the food industry makes food so delicious, and does that mean that the foods that are good for you can't be delicious?
• 9:18
  Philip Pape: Now, obviously it's a leading question, but let's address that.
• 9:21
  Alana Bonnemann: Yeah, well, you know Michael Pollan right?
• 9:24
  Alana Bonnemann: He's an American-based author.
• 9:27
  Alana Bonnemann: He has a little book called Food Rules, which I mean I find food rules to be a funny name, but he says which will kind of segue into my answer he's got these different rules and one of them is when you go shopping, it's to shop the periphery of the supermarket, so you walk in and you walk into the fresh produce and then on the peripheries it's usually freezers.
• 9:46
  Alana Bonnemann: That's how it is in Australia, that's how it is in Germany, I assume in the States and basically everywhere that's how it is.
• 9:51
  Alana Bonnemann: In the middle of a supermarket is aisles of canned, packaged foods.
• 9:59
  Alana Bonnemann: They're foods with additives.
• 10:01
  Alana Bonnemann: They're there to basically have long shelf lives, emulsifiers and lists that go quite long, and you know they need to be able to hold flavor and they need to be able, yeah, to be palatable.
• 10:13
  Alana Bonnemann: So they do these foods taste good, but they might not feel good also just because of the different ingredients that are in them as well.
• 10:25
  Alana Bonnemann: I think your question was can healthy foods taste good?
• 10:30
  Alana Bonnemann: Is that what you're alluding to?
• 10:31
  Alana Bonnemann: I mean, the thing is and I will be honest here when I first got into the health space, when I first started studying nutrition, I remember learning about all of the different benefits that nutrition can have.
• 10:44
  Alana Bonnemann: You know whether it was anti-inflammatory, for cardiovascular, for skin, for gut, for mood, for like, all the different things that tricks and tips that you could do in order to have a good diet.
• 10:56
  Alana Bonnemann: And I was not eating for the joy of eating, I was eating for the benefits of eating.
• 11:01
  Alana Bonnemann: So it didn't matter if it tasted good or not.
• 11:05
  Alana Bonnemann: Like, for example, a protein bar, do they taste that good?
• 11:09
  Alana Bonnemann: Like they do the trick to get a bit of protein in, but are they like?
• 11:12
  Alana Bonnemann: Do they taste that good?
• 11:13
  Alana Bonnemann: So you know whether we need this amount of protein or this amount of fiber.
• 11:18
  Alana Bonnemann: I think making sure that you're getting the right things, but also enjoying what you eat does play a huge like.
• 11:26
  Alana Bonnemann: It plays a huge part on it.
• 11:27
  Alana Bonnemann: Eating, like in cultures, it's such a huge part of what we do.
• 11:32
  Alana Bonnemann: We do it several times a day.
• 11:33
  Alana Bonnemann: It connects people.
• 11:34
  Alana Bonnemann: It connects with yourself.
• 11:35
  Alana Bonnemann: You know it is.
• 11:37
  Alana Bonnemann: It's the first thing we do.
• 11:39
  Alana Bonnemann: When we are like bottle fed or breastfed in a nurturing situation by our primary caregiver.
• 11:45
  Alana Bonnemann: You know they're there with us.
• 11:46
  Alana Bonnemann: So eating is a huge part of what we do and to some extent.
• 11:50
  Alana Bonnemann: Yes, it should be enjoyable and it can be enjoyable.
• 11:54
  Philip Pape: And I love that.
• 11:54
  Philip Pape: And, of course, I ask a lot of leading questions or a lot of kind of questions from a place of skepticism for the person listening.
• 12:00
  Philip Pape: I love food, I'm a huge foodie.
• 12:02
  Philip Pape: I love to prepare nutritious foods and make them taste good and, honestly, if I'm trying to eat something like, let's say, brussels sprouts, because I know they're cruciferous and they have these nutrients and I heard they taste good, and yet my whole life I've had exposure to only boiled, canned Brussels sprouts that make me gag.
• 12:18
  Philip Pape: And then I try fresh, roasted Brussels sprouts with a little bit of salt and they're divine, like this totally different food.
• 12:29
  Philip Pape: I think that's important.
• 12:29
  Philip Pape: Like I've seen people comment no, it's not about enjoying your food, it's about fuel or it's about nutrition, and it's not, it's a human experience.
• 12:32
  Philip Pape: So I think that's why I wanted to ask that early in this episode, so that people, you know, give themselves the permission to enjoy food, to actually seek out delicious ways to prepare, to purchase the ingredients, everything, but also understand when we say tasty or delicious or whatever.
• 12:48
  Philip Pape: What do we mean?
• 12:49
  Philip Pape: And if you eat Oreos and they spike your dopamine but then you know you got some rumblies in your tumbly right, like Winnie the Pooh would say maybe there's something off that doesn't work for you Now.
• 13:00
  Philip Pape: Granted, I personally I could eat an Oreo every now and then when I'm in a bulking phase and it's whatever, but I'm actually thinking of it then as just fast sugary nutrition for a lifter in a tiny, tiny percentage of my calories.
• 13:13
  Alana Bonnemann: That's so interesting.
• 13:14
  Alana Bonnemann: So you see food in that respect, and I guess that's it.
• 13:18
  Alana Bonnemann: You're seeing food as serving a purpose for gain or loss.
• 13:24
  Philip Pape: It's a carve out.
• 13:25
  Philip Pape: It's a carve out for if I have to eat 4,000 calories, I literally am not going to enjoy all 4,000 calories.
• 13:31
  Philip Pape: Probably that's a different topic for a different day.
• 13:35
  Alana Bonnemann: Some people will, some people will eat all whole foods and it's more power, I mean, but I would I mean, yeah, I guess I would maybe put honey, or that's interesting because, yes, if you start to see just the calorie impact of the from an Oreo, of what you can get compared to, I never thought about that, to be honest.
• 13:53
  Alana Bonnemann: So I've never bulked, so it's never been, it's never been something that I've had to think of.
• 13:57
  Alana Bonnemann: And even for those who I work with, you know it's like feel good weight, sometimes it is weight gain.
• 14:02
  Alana Bonnemann: Okay, then how can we do it?
• 14:03
  Alana Bonnemann: And I usually do it with whole foods, but I never thought to, never crossed my mind.
• 14:09
  Philip Pape: Yeah, so, okay.
• 14:10
  Philip Pape: So now I have another question for you, then.
• 14:12
  Philip Pape: Do you think people should be striving for a 100% whole food diet, or that there should be some carve out or allowance or whatever term you use for whatever you know ice cream, baked goods, donuts, pizza, whatever.
• 14:31
  Alana Bonnemann: Yes, I, I straight up, I say eat cake and feel great, like not.
• 14:33
  Alana Bonnemann: I mean, you're on the same page.
• 14:34
  Alana Bonnemann: It's not about restrictions, but I think the difference between eating a food like an Oreo in order to get a result is different to I shouldn't eat this food.
• 14:41
  Alana Bonnemann: Go back to your first question, because the whole point is like, because that's bad and I can't eat this cake, it's not the cake.
• 14:49
  Alana Bonnemann: You know, if you eat cake seven days a week, your body's going to feel it.
• 14:54
  Alana Bonnemann: Your body's probably going to ask for something like a salad.
• 14:56
  Alana Bonnemann: But likewise, if you're just eating salad seven days a week, your body's going to ask for something like a cake.
• 15:02
  Alana Bonnemann: So no, and when you eat this cake, you want to not feel bad.
• 15:07
  Alana Bonnemann: You don't want it to be a terrible experience If your whole purpose is to lose weight, build muscle, whatever it is that you're trying to get with nutrition and then you're having a piece of cake or whatever it is, and you feel bad for eating it.
• 15:22
  Alana Bonnemann: You quickly smash it down and then you feel bad for eating it, or you quickly smash it down and then you feel bad for eating it.
• 15:25
  Alana Bonnemann: That's actually equally going into that diet cycle of like I want to get to a certain goal, I'm doing it, I'm motivated, I had a weak point, I feel guilt, I feel shame, I'm pathetic.
• 15:37
  Alana Bonnemann: Okay, I'm motivated again to lose weight again.
• 15:39
  Alana Bonnemann: And it's just, that cycle isn't helpful for anyone and it will usually keep people stuck in their let's call it a weight loss journey or in their health journey in order to get to a certain result.
• 15:51
  Philip Pape: Yeah, yeah, so so then, how does the language change when you work with somebody?
• 15:55
  Philip Pape: And they are, you know, let's go, let's reverse engineer it.
• 15:59
  Philip Pape: Somebody who's who's been successful and gone through this transformation and used to think of foods as good or bad, or had guilt or shame around certain foods.
• 16:07
  Philip Pape: This binary thinking or moral thinking what does it look like when you don't have that anymore?
• 16:13
  Philip Pape: What is the language someone will use around, say, a processed food that they just eat it because they want to eat it and it's?
• 16:20
  Philip Pape: not there's no moral judgment.
• 16:21
  Alana Bonnemann: Yeah.
• 16:22
  Alana Bonnemann: So in order to get to that place of no moral judgment, we need to actually address the language that we're using towards the foods.
• 16:27
  Alana Bonnemann: The whole industry and I get caught up as well doing it.
• 16:31
  Alana Bonnemann: Sometimes we will call it food good or bad, healthy, unhealthy, super junk food.
• 16:36
  Alana Bonnemann: And just by doing that like I went to a cafe the other day and it had clean like the cafe is like clean food, like acai bowl, like whatever it was there and I was just, I just observed that because that meant at this cafe that was clean, which meant the burger across the world.
• 16:53
  Alana Bonnemann: That's not clean, that's dirty.
• 16:55
  Alana Bonnemann: So even if you are perhaps not fully aware of like that clean or not, just the idea that it's not healthy, it's not clean.
• 17:05
  Alana Bonnemann: I'm going to have a burger, I'm doing something bad.
• 17:07
  Alana Bonnemann: Oh, like, I'm doing something naughty.
• 17:09
  Alana Bonnemann: I often hear that, oh, I deserve a piece of cake.
• 17:12
  Alana Bonnemann: It's something naughty.
• 17:13
  Alana Bonnemann: It's not naughty to have a piece of cake or a burger.
• 17:16
  Alana Bonnemann: If you do it intentionally, as the one-off thing, and you enjoy it, I think that's going to hit more dopamine than eating it and then feeling stress and guilt and shame afterwards.
• 17:26
  Alana Bonnemann: That's probably adding more to the stress and the imbalance of your health in general if you're seeing those foods as bad.
• 17:35
  Alana Bonnemann: So you can start with the language and this is you know.
• 17:38
  Alana Bonnemann: When we say healthy, healthy food, everyone kind of knows what healthy is or unhealthy is, but by just labeling those foods it really puts that judgment on the foods and then also the people eating them get that judgment whether it's yourself eating it or if you're judging other people for eating those foods as well.
• 17:58
  Philip Pape: Yeah, a hundred percent, it does, it does.
• 18:00
  Philip Pape: And I even have deep seated in my brain when someone themselves declares that they're not eating something because it's quote unquote, unhealthy, and I'm there choosing to eat it.
• 18:09
  Philip Pape: I think, wait a minute, what are you saying about me?
• 18:12
  Philip Pape: But then you know, it's like back in your brain we want to belong, we want to be part of that group and it kind of isolates and singles people out.
• 18:18
  Philip Pape: So with this diet culture because that's really what it is, this conditioning, the guilt and shame on food choices what are the signs that people should look for about themselves, to kind of reflect?
• 18:36
  Philip Pape: on themselves with this unhealthy food guilt and maybe how it connects with their well-being.
• 18:38
  Alana Bonnemann: I know we've talked about this a little bit, but just so someone is more aware of when and why they're doing this.
• 18:40
  Alana Bonnemann: Yeah, so I mean the diet culture like I grew up I I was born in the 80s, grew up in the 90s and this is when I think I mean diet culture's been around for ages, but it really hit home.
• 18:50
  Alana Bonnemann: Today we have more of this body positivity, but back in the 90s heroin chic was in and people you know this thin was almost synonymous for healthy.
• 19:02
  Alana Bonnemann: So it wasn't get healthy at any cost, it was get thin at any cost.
• 19:06
  Alana Bonnemann: And I've heard stories of women who used to just drink orange juice and eat cotton balls to get healthy.
• 19:17
  Alana Bonnemann: Not to get healthy, obviously, to get thin, and so like just the idea to do that and this is perpetuated.
• 19:24
  Alana Bonnemann: So we're trying to get thin, so we hop on any crazy diet to then get a certain result and that's that's backwards.
• 19:33
  Alana Bonnemann: That is not what we should be doing.
• 19:35
  Alana Bonnemann: The goal is to have energy.
• 19:38
  Alana Bonnemann: The goal is to have a functioning menstruation.
• 19:40
  Alana Bonnemann: You know a monthly, not you know painful bowel movements, hair, skin and nails strong.
• 19:48
  Alana Bonnemann: You know focus in your eyes and when you go to work you're feeling productive and you're feeling vital.
• 19:53
  Alana Bonnemann: That's the goal, I think, and also for me, that's again like with this feel good weight.
• 20:00
  Alana Bonnemann: The weight is actually a by-product of all of those things.
• 20:04
  Alana Bonnemann: I'll also throw sleep in there as well, you know, cause that's obviously important one, but that's, you know, that's, it's a by-product of you optimizing each area of those of that life and diet culture didn't do that.
• 20:16
  Alana Bonnemann: It didn't do any of that because it was all for getting thin.
• 20:19
  Alana Bonnemann: So the first thing is to kind of perhaps be aware of is it about my body or is it about my health?
• 20:26
  Alana Bonnemann: You know, I mean, you put you work with people in weight loss and weight loss.
• 20:31
  Alana Bonnemann: You know making these transformations.
• 20:33
  Alana Bonnemann: So what is it about in the end?
• 20:35
  Alana Bonnemann: What's their true, what's their true calling that they're coming to you to work with?
• 20:39
  Alana Bonnemann: And it usually is about the health, it's not about how they look, although that is the catalyst for people coming in.
• 20:47
  Alana Bonnemann: So that's, I think, the first place to be aware of it.
• 20:50
  Philip Pape: Yeah, that is huge, because if you're chasing the wrong goal, the feedback loop is not going to align.
• 20:56
  Philip Pape: In other words, what you do may reinforce that misaligned goal and then you're going to keep going down that path rather than the path you choose to go down.
• 21:05
  Philip Pape: And you're right when it comes to weight loss or even body composition.
• 21:09
  Philip Pape: When it's more physical, some of the most inspiring stories I hear from clients and just people in the general when they start down the path of doing what you're doing is the language around how they feel, the language around how other people perceive them, not physically, but like their energy and their showing up in their health and their confidence, and that can be more inspiring than anything, in my opinion.
• 21:31
  Philip Pape: And then if you happen to have the byproduct of the physical side, that's great.
• 21:35
  Philip Pape: Now, what about something like we talked about strength training on my show?
• 21:38
  Philip Pape: What about somebody who does have a legitimate goal where they're trying to add weight to the bar and they're trying to get stronger and therefore some of these goals need to align with that?
• 21:48
  Philip Pape: But that is physical, not so much about how they feel.
• 21:50
  Philip Pape: What are your thoughts on that?
• 21:53
  Alana Bonnemann: Well, it's interesting, Cause when we chatted, you were like, okay, this needs to happen.
• 21:57
  Alana Bonnemann: People have to do weights, and you know and I was like, oh, that's so interesting Is that?
• 22:01
  Alana Bonnemann: okay, you know it's a similar thing, different approaches, so it's crazy.
• 22:05
  Alana Bonnemann: So I take a very holistic approach, very fluid approach, as I said, I will often work with.
• 22:11
  Alana Bonnemann: What is your resistance?
• 22:12
  Alana Bonnemann: What is your resistance to getting to a certain result?
• 22:18
  Alana Bonnemann: Okay, I would just give an example.
• 22:20
  Alana Bonnemann: It's actually the opposite.
• 22:21
  Alana Bonnemann: So it's the like losing rather than putting on.
• 22:23
  Alana Bonnemann: But, for example, someone who cannot start to get moving a client of mine comes to mind.
• 22:29
  Alana Bonnemann: It's a story of, yeah, I want to do it, but I can't actually do it, like I'm not starting, they're not taking action.
• 22:38
  Alana Bonnemann: It's like what's the resistance there?
• 22:42
  Alana Bonnemann: I get people to literally get a pen and paper and every morning, few pages writing down what's your resistance and writing down into the point where it gets uncomfortable and like why am I even writing about this?
• 22:55
  Alana Bonnemann: Keep writing, you will find the reason to what's resisting.
• 22:58
  Alana Bonnemann: And so, for example, with this client, she came back to me.
• 23:01
  Alana Bonnemann: She's like oh my gosh, when I was in primary school I was in a sports lesson and I was running and the PE instructor kind of slapped her on the ass and from then on, like for her that was just, it was so violating, and she just shut down and from then on she just stopped doing movement.
• 23:20
  Alana Bonnemann: So to get back to this point of okay, what's at the root cause of you not taking action and you not making change is a really important factor to kind of get through that, understand that and break, kind of break through from that as well, and I think you could kind of see it.
• 23:37
  Alana Bonnemann: Yeah.
• 23:38
  Philip Pape: Yeah, so resistance.
• 23:39
  Philip Pape: So and the word I use for that is friction it's the same idea of like what is in the way, whether it's some short-term thing you're struggling with or the deeper what you suggested.
• 23:48
  Philip Pape: I had a guest on not long ago Adam Badger was his name, and he talked about stress, and he was talking about how, a lot of times when something happens to us outside of us, we react in a way that ramps up our stress, but that reaction is rooted in something in our life that causes us to act that way where someone else might not.
• 24:08
  Philip Pape: And so I love these ideas of getting further and further, deeper into potential root causes, without driving ourselves crazy, trying to like unpackage our entire psyche on day one right Cause it's a process.
• 24:20
  Stephanie: It's a process.
• 24:22
  Philip Pape: But I think that's really important.
• 24:23
  Philip Pape: So let's talk about you mentioned.
• 24:26
  Philip Pape: When we think of foods right, I think there's a spectrum of processing.
• 24:29
  Philip Pape: Is is how a lot of people put it.
• 24:31
  Philip Pape: Do you ascribe to that idea of categorizing foods that way of like, from minimally to ultra processed, and then alcohol needs to be in there too, being a toxin and kind of a unique thing.
• 24:43
  Philip Pape: What are your thoughts on that for people?
• 24:45
  Alana Bonnemann: listening.
• 24:45
  Alana Bonnemann: Yeah, so there, I mean I think it's generally understood that there's whole foods, processed foods and then these highly ultra processed foods.
• 24:55
  Alana Bonnemann: And to kind of reference Michael Pollan again, because I really like his work, I think he even calls it food-like substances.
• 25:02
  Philip Pape: Okay, Just to make it sound gross, right?
• 25:05
  Philip Pape: Yeah, a little bit.
• 25:06
  Alana Bonnemann: But so like, while I do see it like that, I think you know logically I see it like that but in the end food is food, like everything that's being sold at the supermarket is kind of food.
• 25:18
  Alana Bonnemann: So if you can imagine, like I have two children, I'm trying to raise them up to not have highly restrictive diets but to understand that you are going to have everything at your fingertips, like once they're 16 or even like even earlier, like I don't.
• 25:35
  Alana Bonnemann: We're not going to be able to control whatever they're eating.
• 25:37
  Alana Bonnemann: So it's the same for an adult as well.
• 25:38
  Alana Bonnemann: You have access to everything.
• 25:41
  Alana Bonnemann: And if you kind of see it all as food, and again it's actually getting back into your body and understanding what actually makes you feel good, versus the highly processed stuff which, while it tastes good, chances are it's not going to be making you feel good or function well.
• 25:57
  Alana Bonnemann: So yes, and then also on a biochemical level, obviously, when we've got all of these ingredients in these food-like substances, they're not benefiting the body in the way in which whole foods benefit the body as far as macro and micro nutrients go.
• 26:13
  Alana Bonnemann: So I mean, is it even a question to ask if it's out there?
• 26:17
  Alana Bonnemann: No, because they're obviously all available.
• 26:19
  Alana Bonnemann: It's how we kind of associate ourselves with all of them.
• 26:22
  Alana Bonnemann: Again, I would I try not to call them good or bad, because then it puts you back into the oh, like this is bad, I'm doing something bad.
• 26:30
  Alana Bonnemann: That is elevating that stress level which we want to kind of not, you know, like yeah, and it's also when we call salads good as well.
• 26:41
  Alana Bonnemann: It's just I'm just thinking about it because, like when stress, when stress is involved, stress elevates every single condition, whether it's a skin condition, whether it's a bowel condition, whatever you have, any type of stress is going to exacerbate that.
• 26:55
  Alana Bonnemann: So it's the same thing when you're thinking about nutrition, because so many people we can control our nutrition, we eat several times a day.
• 27:02
  Alana Bonnemann: That's something that we can control.
• 27:03
  Alana Bonnemann: So when we're controlling our nutrition, we eat several times a day.
• 27:09
  Alana Bonnemann: That's something that we can control.
• 27:10
  Alana Bonnemann: So when we're controlling our nutrition and we're not, we're doing things that we think are bad for us, then again this stress is spiked and that's what's going to cascade with every health concern in our body.
• 27:14
  Alana Bonnemann: Nervous system regulation is huge.
• 27:16
  Alana Bonnemann: So I think, just be aware and be mindful of the foods that are out there and again, and it's hard because they're all delicious and they're all advertised to us in very delicious ways.
• 27:29
  Alana Bonnemann: But understanding what it is that you want and understanding what your body thrives on, and also, if you're on a journey and you want to get there, then you have to be diligent.
• 27:41
  Alana Bonnemann: Motivation discipline can only push you so far.
• 27:44
  Alana Bonnemann: Well, discipline can actually get you probably a bit further than motivation.
• 27:46
  Alana Bonnemann: But you need you need to challenge yourself as well.
• 27:50
  Alana Bonnemann: In that space of challenge you do grow.
• 27:54
  Alana Bonnemann: And I think if you've just been used to kind of having all foods at once, it's going to be challenging to change that.
• 27:59
  Alana Bonnemann: But in that challenge you'll grow.
• 28:02
  Philip Pape: And this is where we have a lot of overlap right Is the idea that you are creating a sense of awareness, intention.
• 28:09
  Philip Pape: I like the word diligence because it strikes me as an intentional perseverance and intentional decision-making, informed decision-making.
• 28:18
  Philip Pape: It doesn't necessarily mean it requires massive mental energy, especially if you're reducing your resistance, your friction, like it can all come together in a way that's just pushing that comfort zone slowly over time and always improving, just like in the gym where you don't jump to a 400 pound deadlift on day one, you start with the empty bar and you move slowly you mentioned.
• 28:39
  Philip Pape: I want to get back to the feeling good part and get more objective and dig into that so that the listener understands.
• 28:45
  Philip Pape: What does she mean by feeling good?
• 28:47
  Philip Pape: A little story about my daughter.
• 28:48
  Philip Pape: We have two daughters, 11 and 13.
• 28:50
  Philip Pape: And my oldest daughter, for a while there had some anxiety about going to restaurants and I think the reason was she had a few experiences where it just didn't work well for her system, whatever she ate at a restaurant, because we eat so much prepared at home and my wife is just a great cook and she doesn't use many ingredients and you know we go to a restaurant like once every two or three weeks and it's like all the oils and sugars and fats, and again it's not the good or bad, it's just how do you feel Like.
• 29:19
  Philip Pape: So she would do that and it would get.
• 29:20
  Philip Pape: She eventually had a little bit of anxiety.
• 29:22
  Philip Pape: We said, hey, why don't we go out?
• 29:23
  Philip Pape: And she just wouldn't enjoy it at all, no matter what it was.
• 29:26
  Philip Pape: And eventually we started to become more intentional, like you said with her about hey, we are going to a restaurant, let's look at the menu, let's figure out together what might make sense and then understand that it's, you know, pretty close to what mommy makes at home.
• 29:39
  Philip Pape: So, you know, give it a shot and then kind of see how you feel afterward.
• 29:44
  Philip Pape: So I think that's a relevant story, but I want to understand from you for the listener how do you know what feels good?
• 29:54
  Alana Bonnemann: Yeah, well, it's interesting because her that level of anxiety is an indication, like I don't want to say red flag, but it's a, it's a big, it's an obvious sign that something is not going okay.
• 30:04
  Alana Bonnemann: So this can come in, like I mean, yeah, emotional things can come up stress and also we know that our brain and our gut are tight, like the brain access, like we know it's affected and what comes first.
• 30:17
  Alana Bonnemann: If your gut balance is also like your microbiome is out, then it affects your mental health and vice versa.
• 30:23
  Alana Bonnemann: So we know that mood or mental or emotional aspects do play into it.
• 30:28
  Alana Bonnemann: We also need to think about the physical effects that we get, like are we getting digestive cramps afterwards or reflux or just lethargy?
• 30:43
  Alana Bonnemann: You know what's happening with what we're eating or are we getting like super excited from like a bag of Oreos or whatever it is, like the sugar hits?
• 30:51
  Alana Bonnemann: So I think understanding how you're feeling because, okay, like I'm going to put this back down to a very basic thing the body has a life force that like flows through it and you can feel this life force, like if you clap your hands together, force that like flows through it and you can feel this life force, like if you clap your hands together, your hands start to tingle and you'll feel the life force dropping into your body to feel those feelings.
• 31:15
  Alana Bonnemann: And I don't want to bring it back to emotions all the time, but I think, like a lot of the times I'm working with people, it does come back to how they're feeling, whether they are stressed, whether they have anxiety.
• 31:24
  Alana Bonnemann: Those feelings also have a certain vibration in our body as well.
• 31:29
  Alana Bonnemann: They're not something to suppress and it's really good that you kind of talk through with your daughter.
• 31:33
  Alana Bonnemann: Okay, how can we do this?
• 31:34
  Alana Bonnemann: Because they're there telling us something Anger, for example.
• 31:36
  Alana Bonnemann: We need to listen to our anger.
• 31:39
  Alana Bonnemann: Or, if we're having guilt, listen to that.
• 31:41
  Alana Bonnemann: And what anxiety?
• 31:42
  Alana Bonnemann: What is it trying to tell us and why is it trying to tell us that?
• 31:45
  Alana Bonnemann: So I've totally diverged, but I think when, like when you, when we want to think about what feels good, you can have the mental side or the physical side of it.
• 31:59
  Alana Bonnemann: Sometimes they're conjoined and then you want to also tap in and listen to that and also perhaps honor that as well, because I think sometimes in your body it'd be like I don't actually want that.
• 32:09
  Alana Bonnemann: For example, if you've eaten breakfast and then you're going out for brunch and you're not hungry but you're eating, to be polite, because it's brunch.
• 32:18
  Alana Bonnemann: Then, even though your body's saying, but I'm not hungry, you kind of override it and then eat anyway.
• 32:23
  Alana Bonnemann: Even though your body's saying, but I'm not hungry, you kind of override it and then eat anyway.
• 32:26
  Alana Bonnemann: So in what ways can we kind of honor our body and listen to what our body's saying?
• 32:35
  Philip Pape: I think that's the core of it.
• 32:36
  Philip Pape: That piece is actually very powerful in my opinion because if you go, if you extrapolate it to something like alcohol, which is so socially conditioned and, I'll say, twisted in terms of how it's portrayed right as this wonderful thing, and you think of the pressure people put on themselves just to imbibe because they're with people, because of the social whatever, that's kind of the extreme case of it, but I do like the idea that your hunger cues for example you alluded to your context of where you are with people is a variable, it's a very strong variable in your environment and you have control.
• 33:09
  Philip Pape: You don't have control over that, but you have control over what you do within that situation.
• 33:13
  Philip Pape: So understanding why you're making your decisions is really important.
• 33:17
  Philip Pape: Speaking of why, when you go to the grocery store, because now we can get a little practical, get a little more practical.
• 33:24
  Philip Pape: This is all practical, I shouldn't say it's not, it's all right.
• 33:28
  Philip Pape: They go to the grocery store now and that's a powerful place to be, because that is where you're purchasing all the things that are going to go in your body over the next week or so.
• 33:37
  Philip Pape: Potentially if you cook a lot at home, which I recommend, but to each his own.
• 33:41
  Philip Pape: That balances the.
• 33:43
  Philip Pape: We'll say nutrition quality, cause we don't want to say good or bad, we don't want to say healthy, we want to say like the quality of the food for what you need, and feel with the enjoyment, with the practicality, with the indulgences, like how do we make it all work?
• 33:56
  Alana Bonnemann: We go to the grocery store.
• 33:57
  Alana Bonnemann: Yeah, I love that.
• 33:58
  Alana Bonnemann: Well, I find, to be honest, I find the grocery stores to be a rather depleting and depressing place.
• 34:03
  Alana Bonnemann: I mean, in Germany I feel like when I go to the fresh produce, all year round I have capsicums, paprika I'm not sure what you call them cucumbers, tomatoes and salad.
• 34:13
  Alana Bonnemann: I feel like the whole year these things are on offer and that is very like.
• 34:17
  Alana Bonnemann: That is a very limited amount of food.
• 34:23
  Alana Bonnemann: So if you want to kind of get the most out of what you're eating, you need diversity.
• 34:29
  Alana Bonnemann: You need to have diversity.
• 34:30
  Alana Bonnemann: I like to follow the.
• 34:31
  Alana Bonnemann: I like to follow the kind of what do you call it?
• 34:35
  Alana Bonnemann: I guess, let's say, rule If I have eaten it yesterday, don't eat it again today.
• 34:39
  Alana Bonnemann: So this way you're just changing up what you're eating, and there's some people who don't like having a lot of variety.
• 34:45
  Alana Bonnemann: But this means if you're eating apples like, just change the type of apples that you're eating.
• 34:47
  Alana Bonnemann: I guess, when things are in season, to also kind of eat with the seasons as well.
• 34:52
  Alana Bonnemann: But this is also really difficult.
• 34:54
  Alana Bonnemann: I mean, you can't.
• 34:55
  Alana Bonnemann: That means, you know, for us in Germany, probably in the States as well six months of the year it's winter and you can't have a lot of diversity.
• 35:02
  Alana Bonnemann: There's like potatoes and cabbage.
• 35:03
  Alana Bonnemann: So you need to get kind of clever and see how you can perhaps it's frozen stuff, you know to kind of bring in that diversity.
• 35:12
  Alana Bonnemann: And then when you are thinking of diversity, because you still want to have fun, you don't want it to just be fruits and veggies.
• 35:22
  Alana Bonnemann: You can't just live on fruits and veg and a good quality protein.
• 35:26
  Alana Bonnemann: You want to be able to kind of have fun.
• 35:28
  Alana Bonnemann: So I don't follow like a cheat day or a certain time, but it comes back to that, really said over and over again, this 80-20 rule.
• 35:40
  Alana Bonnemann: You want to make sure that the foods that you are eating they are as whole and fresh as possible but then also have room for fun.
• 35:49
  Alana Bonnemann: And I think if you've strictly followed something, a high regime, then it might be hard to relax a bit, and if you've strictly just always relaxed, it's hard to have a good regime.
• 35:59
  Alana Bonnemann: But with practice and it does take practice, practice is the progress in this you find a way of what I thrive on and what I can kind of add to.
• 36:10
  Alana Bonnemann: I think, with the foods that, let's say, less nutritious, the ones that are at least highly processed, the food like substances, why are we eating them?
• 36:19
  Alana Bonnemann: We need to kind of strip back to okay, how did we sleep?
• 36:22
  Alana Bonnemann: Do we need energy?
• 36:23
  Alana Bonnemann: Are we grabbing them for quick energy fixes?
• 36:25
  Alana Bonnemann: Are we coming back from a week of complete, you know, hard work?
• 36:31
  Alana Bonnemann: We're exhausted, we're stressed.
• 36:32
  Alana Bonnemann: Okay, we're eating them to kind of, you know, put down that feeling, or are we feeling sad?
• 36:38
  Alana Bonnemann: Or are we bored and therefore eating those foods?
• 36:40
  Alana Bonnemann: I think it's not necessary.
• 36:42
  Alana Bonnemann: It's what I tried to allude to before.
• 36:43
  Alana Bonnemann: It's not the foods, necessarily, but the reasons why we're eating them play a bigger part in the problem of them.
• 36:50
  Alana Bonnemann: Everyone knows how to eat healthy.
• 36:53
  Alana Bonnemann: If you say eat healthy, people know what that means.
• 36:55
  Alana Bonnemann: But actually doing that is the difficult step, like the actual act of doing it is what makes it hard.
• 37:02
  Alana Bonnemann: So yes, variety is number one, diversity variety and diversity.
• 37:08
  Alana Bonnemann: uh proportion so 80, 20, and then yeah, with also like moderation it's you know, yeah, moderation is everything as well.
• 37:20
  Stephanie: The most value that I got from this was the fact that I had someone that I could talk to about anything and that there was going to be no judgment.
• 37:30
  Stephanie: It was just well, here are your goals, here's the best way that you're going to achieve it, and then let's work together to help you feel inspired and motivated to do that and there's a lot of people out there trying to be coaches and not all of them have done the work and also just be a genuine person that is positive and coming from the heart in terms of wanting to help, and Phillip really embodied all of those qualities.
• 37:56
  Stephanie: I would recommend him to just about anyone that's looking to achieve goals in that realm of their nutrition and building new habits.
• 38:06
  Philip Pape: It's simple, but we do like to complicate things and until you've done it intentionally, you don't know what you are capable of.
• 38:13
  Philip Pape: I mean, that's the way I see it is that right now, as we talk about food, I'm thinking of different foods because it's about lunchtime here.
• 38:19
  Philip Pape: But I also thought what came to my head is the more I personally have gone toward this, you know, nutrient-dense, whole food, diverse approach, and I have a long way to go.
• 38:27
  Philip Pape: Like we all do, we have things that we want to improve with the more I those foods and actually don't crave or want or need the quote unquote indulgences as much to the extent that, like, I can think of a bowl of frozen shrimp with some cocktail sauce as a really tasty, delicious afternoon snack that I would crave and that's awesome.
• 38:46
  Philip Pape: Like, for me, that's great because I consume protein and some taste and whatever.
• 38:50
  Philip Pape: It satisfies the all the things.
• 38:53
  Philip Pape: So the 80, 20 rule we use it a lot in this industry because I think it is effective.
• 38:58
  Philip Pape: I think the idea of 80, 20 permeates a lot of things.
• 39:01
  Philip Pape: Actually, there's the Pareto principle where, like, 20% of your effort leads to 80% of the results and I think same thing here is that 80, 20 is a good split.
• 39:09
  Philip Pape: But when we say that, how does someone concretely do that?
• 39:13
  Philip Pape: And I ask because we have different approaches.
• 39:15
  Philip Pape: If I had a client who's just tracking their food, it literally is math.
• 39:18
  Philip Pape: It's just like, let's make sure the calorie, like 10, 20% of your calories effectively are, you know, you're not crazy, like half and half like processed foods.
• 39:30
  Philip Pape: Let's say, how do you do it when you're tracking in other ways or not tracking, or however you'd like to do it with clients?
• 39:34
  Alana Bonnemann: So I focus on what we add in first, like what can we add into your diet?
• 39:39
  Alana Bonnemann: Like when I first start working with someone, I don't ever strip anything away.
• 39:42
  Alana Bonnemann: Like, similar to you, I don't want to restrict anything and usually when you add things into the diet and that becomes a new way of how you do things, it just naturally pushes things out.
• 39:54
  Alana Bonnemann: And while you don't necessarily see that, I mean you like, sometimes with my clients I keep like a food and mood journal what are you eating and how do you feel?
• 40:01
  Alana Bonnemann: So they're writing it down.
• 40:03
  Alana Bonnemann: There, is that awareness there and that assertiveness.
• 40:05
  Alana Bonnemann: But, yes, it's not what you see to be like, oh, I've done this and tick, it's kind of done.
• 40:11
  Alana Bonnemann: It's more of a okay, like I realize that this week I haven't, yeah, eaten this, that and the other.
• 40:18
  Alana Bonnemann: But in saying that, while we're bringing in foods, I'm also working on the reasons that they would grab for those 20% rule, you know, in the first place Because, again, if your way of dealing with boredom or exhaustion is to go for food, that's always going to be your default, no matter how, how hard you try to stay disciplined at some point you can do it now.
• 40:43
  Alana Bonnemann: For a few months.
• 40:44
  Alana Bonnemann: You can even do it for a year, but if then something happens that just makes you break, then you're going to default back to that.
• 40:51
  Alana Bonnemann: So we need to change that default loop, and so it kind of works.
• 40:55
  Alana Bonnemann: You're working in two ways we're working to break the cycle and also just add in things that are then going to make you also not want them to.
• 41:05
  Philip Pape: Love it.
• 41:05
  Philip Pape: Change the default loop that hits it right on the head with that phrase.
• 41:08
  Philip Pape: Right, Because it's what is the thing you're always coming back to when life throws its worst at you, right that's the habit you want.
• 41:18
  Philip Pape: It's not what do you deviate from because of life.
• 41:21
  Philip Pape: So that's powerful In that case.
• 41:24
  Philip Pape: One of the things that many people face regularly is all the social things right, going to restaurants, being asked to go to happy hour, wanting to go to a party, vacation, travel, all the things.
• 41:35
  Philip Pape: And you know there's so many like download my you know travel eating guide, download my travel training guide, and it's like all the traditional things like plan ahead and look at the menu and all that.
• 41:45
  Philip Pape: But how do you get people to become comfortable in their default while maybe doing having that kind of lifestyle?
• 41:53
  Alana Bonnemann: To honestly, to start off, I don't.
• 41:55
  Alana Bonnemann: People are like I'm going on holidays to Italy, I'm like enjoy Italy.
• 42:00
  Alana Bonnemann: So at the start it's like that.
• 42:03
  Alana Bonnemann: At the start it's like that, and that's the thing is, on holidays your 20 becomes your 80 and your 80 becomes your 20.
• 42:08
  Alana Bonnemann: And if you're on holidays for longer than three weeks, after some point you probably get constipated and then realize that you need to change and kind of go back to the ways that you're doing things.
• 42:18
  Alana Bonnemann: But as people become more understanding that this way of living, living aligned with their health and I also call it your higher healer Once you tap into something which makes you feel completely different from inside to out, you are unapologetically kind of show up for yourself.
• 42:39
  Alana Bonnemann: The drinking culture is a huge one, because to go to a bar I live in Germany to go to a bar and everyone's drinking beer and you kind of ask for like a water, sparkling water you know people will say you know like what's, what's wrong with you?
• 42:52
  Alana Bonnemann: Or oh yeah, you're the healthy and you know at some point, like I stopped caring, like I care what you.
• 42:55
  Alana Bonnemann: Or oh yeah, you're the healthy and you know at some point, like I stopped caring, like I care what you think, but I care about what I think about myself more and I'm living my life in a certain way because I, like, this is how I want to live.
• 43:07
  Alana Bonnemann: So I think you know, when you start, you know in your perhaps not fully committed, then, yes, go on holidays and enjoy it and go to the bar every now and then and live that life, that's totally fine.
• 43:19
  Alana Bonnemann: But for the people who are then aligned with their authentic way of living and say, no, this is what I stand by and this is how I do it, you can then also, but to do that, you have to find what your truth means to you, and that is I'm packing all that uncomfortable stuff that you don't want to do in the first meeting.
• 43:39
  Philip Pape: For sure, and you want people to fall on their faces sometimes and, like, I saw this funny meme that says, even if you fall on your face, you're still moving forward, right, which is the truth of it.
• 43:51
  Philip Pape: And since they have a guideline and a structure they're trying to follow.
• 43:56
  Philip Pape: And again, I always come back to engineering words, but effectively, what you're saying right is be intentional.
• 44:01
  Philip Pape: Then you know when you're deviating, because you're being more aware of what's happening in your body.
• 44:05
  Philip Pape: So, let's say, you do go to a restaurant and I say restaurant because that is where some people struggle, right, because it's easy to just over-consume and over-indulge with, even if you are thinking I'm going to have lean meats and vegetables because those taste good, and I'm gonna do this, and that you've got, of course, the alcohol is its own thing You've got the appetizer flowing, you've got all the salads and then the food and the dessert, potentially there for the taking, and you're trying to enjoy this social experience.
• 44:29
  Philip Pape: It's like people are thinking, okay, great, like five days, six days out of the week, my default is this wonderful thing where I'm in tune with my body, and yet I go to a restaurant, and how do I still do that?
• 44:41
  Philip Pape: Right, that's kind of what I'm getting at.
• 44:42
  Philip Pape: People are wondering about.
• 44:43
  Alana Bonnemann: Yeah, that's a good question, because when you go to the restaurant, like at the end of the day, like when you see food as calories in, calories out, so to say, or I have to eat this many or I can't eat that many it becomes really difficult.
• 44:59
  Alana Bonnemann: Because then you know it's like oh, a beer, is this mention?
• 45:02
  Alana Bonnemann: Okay, but I'm also having this meal.
• 45:04
  Alana Bonnemann: Oh, I don't want a dessert too, and then you kind of it becomes stressful.
• 45:07
  Alana Bonnemann: But if you eat till satiation, like and again honoring your body, I don't want to eat anymore.
• 45:17
  Alana Bonnemann: Or like you know, I'm listening to your hunger cues then do you eat just to like stuff yourself?
• 45:24
  Alana Bonnemann: And that might the answer might be yes, because it tastes good and like.
• 45:27
  Alana Bonnemann: No judgment there.
• 45:28
  Alana Bonnemann: But you know, if you are living the life where you're like I'm eating because I'm hungry and I'm stopping when I'm full and you're aware of that, then that actually changes the whole entire meal eating out experience.
• 45:46
  Alana Bonnemann: So I think that's kind of how I.
• 45:49
  Alana Bonnemann: Yeah, because listening to our hunger cues and our satiation cues are one of the biggest parts of tapping into our bodies.
• 45:52
  Alana Bonnemann: So I think that's one of the largest parts there.
• 45:54
  Philip Pape: And that's very consistent with everything you've said today, which is being in tune with that and letting that drive decisions in the moment and not having to artificially constrain yourself via whatever it is right.
• 46:04
  Philip Pape: It's funny you say that because I think of going to an Italian restaurant around here where it's almost all pasta dishes with rich sauces and things, and of course, you can choose to have different, you can choose other things on there, and I know if I have a Alfredo sauce it's probably not going to feel great.
• 46:20
  Philip Pape: So right there I'm thinking okay, my body tells me maybe I want a lighter sauce just to begin with, but even if I do choose to have it, half of that's going to go in the takeout box, Like for sure, because you're right.
• 46:39
  Philip Pape: You, unless you're mindlessly eating, which is another piece of this is intention.
• 46:40
  Stephanie: My wife, my kids and I we all have.
• 46:41
  Stephanie: We have four boxes Every time we go to the restaurant.
• 46:41
  Philip Pape: This is lunch tomorrow, which is great, because then you save money and you have more food ready to go for the next day.
• 46:44
  Alana Bonnemann: Yeah, but it comes down having this intention and tapping in with your body, like what we first started talking about.
• 46:51
  Alana Bonnemann: Why is there so much fear around food?
• 46:53
  Alana Bonnemann: And I think, when you're not sure what you should be eating and how you should be eating it, which is aligned with you know, how much exercise are you doing, depending on how much you need?
• 47:03
  Alana Bonnemann: Are you listening to your body's cues?
• 47:05
  Alana Bonnemann: Am I hungry, am I full?
• 47:06
  Alana Bonnemann: Is it appetite?
• 47:08
  Alana Bonnemann: Appetite's the psychological want for foods, like you walk past Subway and you're like, oh, actually I do want a Subway.
• 47:14
  Alana Bonnemann: That's your appetite, that's not hunger, hunger is.
• 47:17
  Alana Bonnemann: You know you might be lightheaded, your stomach has like some pains in it, like that's the hunger.
• 47:22
  Alana Bonnemann: And so when you yes, when you kind of align with what your goals are and why you're doing this whole transformation, aligning it with exactly how you feel in your body, you become perhaps like more convicted in your food choices and you know I'm making these right choices and there is less of that.
• 47:40
  Alana Bonnemann: Oh, like carbs are bad, I'm scared of carbs.
• 47:43
  Alana Bonnemann: Can't have a cake because, oh, it's bad, and that all will then kind of fall away.
• 47:49
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I'm hearing that you become confident in your choices, you own them, you become the, you know, the master of your own, your own choices, which is a great place to be.
• 47:57
  Philip Pape: So, as we wrap up cause I think we covered, we covered a lot of great things at all, interconnected ultimately, which is wonderful, and that happens.
• 48:05
  Philip Pape: Is there anything you wish I did ask and if so, what is your answer?
• 48:09
  Alana Bonnemann: Oh, that's a lovely question.
• 48:11
  Alana Bonnemann: I think perhaps is there and you also touched on this the word holistic.
• 48:19
  Alana Bonnemann: Is there a more holistic approach to self-mastery, optimizing ourselves, getting in contact with our own self, and how can we do that?
• 48:30
  Alana Bonnemann: I think a holistic approach, which is the movement, the strength as you talk about, is one aspect.
• 48:35
  Alana Bonnemann: The biochemical, the toxins, also the nutrition that we put into our body, is the second.
• 48:42
  Alana Bonnemann: The mental and emotional aspect is the third and then I think all encompassing in that is also perhaps I almost want to say spirituality to it, to understanding that our bodies I mean people call our bodies temples you always hear this like your body's your temple.
• 49:00
  Alana Bonnemann: I feel like your bodies are actually inherited, like a lifelong inherited mansion that you kind of get from your forefathers, and it's filled with habits, these cycles and the way that, the things that we triggered us, perhaps even why we are the way we are, and we need to do some deep work on that first, or at some point to do some work there, because this connects you with a higher version of yourself, a higher, a higher power, which which really then drives you to make the choices, not because you think you should or not because society says you should, but because you genuinely want to be at that place.
• 49:45
  Alana Bonnemann: I think, yes, you didn't have to ask that question.
• 49:46
  Alana Bonnemann: But when I think about the underlying basis of why I do what I do and how I do everything, I think that is also it, because ultimately, in the end of the day, I would love to see in everyone like a healer in every home.
• 49:58
  Alana Bonnemann: I would love to have a space, a space and a healing area in your house where you have the ability to heal.
• 50:07
  Alana Bonnemann: My dad's a chiropractor and the chiropractic philosophy is the power that made the body, is a power that heals the body, and I genuinely stick by that.
• 50:15
  Alana Bonnemann: And of course, food and of course movement has something to do with that.
• 50:18
  Alana Bonnemann: Of course our mental health does, but then again also the spiritual too.
• 50:22
  Philip Pape: I love that.
• 50:22
  Philip Pape: I love that.
• 50:23
  Philip Pape: Yeah, I'm definitely open to many of these ideas and to me it comes down to purpose and something deeper and philosophical that we can't necessarily explain.
• 50:34
  Philip Pape: And I love how you said we're connected to our forefathers because we are, I think, physiologically and like genetically, but also there's something that's passed through us culturally and and in some other ways we can't explain potentially.
• 50:47
  Philip Pape: So it's great, the mysteries of the universe, beautiful, all right, we love that.
• 50:51
  Stephanie: We love that.
• 50:53
  Philip Pape: So, all right, all right, we want people to find you and I'll definitely be including a link to your podcast, since, um, you know, again, we have another conversation where you interviewed me there.
• 51:01
  Philip Pape: But where do you want folks?
• 51:02
  Alana Bonnemann: to reach out.
• 51:03
  Alana Bonnemann: Come to alannabonnemancom.
• 51:05
  Alana Bonnemann: I mean that's, if you want to reach out.
• 51:07
  Alana Bonnemann: I guess that's where I hang.
• 51:08
  Alana Bonnemann: Instagram is also there, youtube, linkedin, they're all there, um, but I think the hub of everything I do is at alannabonnemancom.
• 51:17
  Philip Pape: Cool, We'll make it simple.
• 51:18
  Philip Pape: Podcast alannabonnemancom.
• 51:19
  Philip Pape: You can find all of your resources.
• 51:21
  Philip Pape: You're a very special person, Alanna.
• 51:24
  Philip Pape: I've had lots and lots of interviews, but this was so positive, so much energy and enthusiasm, and I love the fact that we are different in so many ways but also care about the same thing and have purpose and spirituality in abundance.
• 51:38
  Philip Pape: I think so.
• 51:38
  Philip Pape: Thank you again for coming on.
• 51:40
  Alana Bonnemann: Thank you as well for having me.
• 51:42
  Alana Bonnemann: I also very much enjoy that we have similar outlooks and work in very different ways, but get the same result and also have the same approach.
• 51:52
  Alana Bonnemann: We're always learning.
• 51:53
  Philip Pape: We learn from each other, so thank you so much for coming on.
• 51:54
  Philip Pape: Likewise, we're always learning, yeah, and we learn from each other, so thank you so much for coming on.
• 51:58
  Alana Bonnemann: Likewise.
• 51:58
  Alana Bonnemann: Thank you, Philip.