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Ed Stetzer Live - How Prayer can Change Your Life · Disciple Radio

• 0:08
  S1: Well, good Saturday morning. Actually, technically it's not morning everywhere.
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  S1: Last week I broadcast from Roanoke, Virginia, and that was
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  S1: early afternoon. So good Saturday everybody. Ed Stetzer here I am,
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  S1: the dean of the Talbot School of Theology or Talbot
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  S1: Seminary at Biola University out here in California. It's 9 a.m.
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  S1: for me. Of course, a lot of you listening to
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  S1: a podcast as well. Let me remind you, if you
• 0:31
  S1: go to Ed Stetzer live.com, you can actually click there
• 0:34
  S1: and subscribe to this show and all the moody radio
• 0:36
  S1: shows via podcast. Uh, a lot of you, depending on
• 0:40
  S1: what station you listen to, you're just listening to Michael
• 0:42
  S1: like I did to, I tried to call in at
• 0:43
  S1: the end of his show and he did not take
• 0:46
  S1: my call. I was screened out of the call. So
• 0:48
  S1: I want you to know that it's a hard day
• 0:50
  S1: here at Moody Radio, but I'm trying to make it
• 0:52
  S1: through the bitterness that I'm experiencing. Michael, I hope you
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  S1: hear about this as well. So I did call late
• 0:57
  S1: and they didn't have time anyway. Ed Stetzer here, your
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  S1: host for Ed Stetzer live this. And every Saturday we
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  S1: have what I think are helpful and hopeful conversations about
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  S1: the culture, about our Christian life and more. And today
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  S1: we're going to continue that theme. And today our guest
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  S1: is Matt Smallbone, originally from Australia. As you will hear
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  S1: when he speaks, he spent over a decade touring the
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  S1: world as a bass player with artists including Michael W Smith,
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  S1: Rebecca Saint James, all these Australians, King and Country, more
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  S1: Australians anyway. He now serves as the lead pastor of
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  S1: church of the city in downtown Nashville, which is a
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  S1: fast growing congregation in Tennessee, also led by another Australian.
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  S1: It's like the invasion of these people from Down Under.
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  S1: Matt lives in Nashville with his wife, four kids and
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  S1: his rescue dog named Rosie. Matt. I used to live
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  S1: in Nashville. Nash, Vegas. You know what? Like Las Vegas
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  S1: with Christians in charge. But I'm so glad that you're there.
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  S1: And thanks for joining us on Ed Stetzer live today.
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  S2: Good morning mate. Where did you live in Nashville when
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  S2: you were here?
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  S1: We lived up in Hendersonville. So it's like, not the
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  S1: cool part of town, but here's the fun.
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  S2: That's our nearest Costco. So we spend some time up
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  S2: in Henderson.
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  S1: Oh, nice. Yeah. For sure. So I used to be
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  S1: the interim pastor of First Baptist Nashville. So I would
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  S1: get there and I was preaching to Ricky Skaggs and
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  S1: I think the white family and the Oak Ridge Boys. And,
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  S1: you know, and I'm not like, I'm not like a
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  S1: country music person. And they took me to the Grand
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  S1: Ole Opry backstage one day meeting all these amazing people.
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  S1: And I didn't I felt like, like it was a
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  S1: terrible like somebody should know who these people are to
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  S1: have the privilege of going backstage. But, you know, it's,
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  S1: it's a, it's a whole thing. So Nashville is a
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  S1: whole vibe. And Hendersonville was sort of old Nashville music.
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  S1: And I guess all the new people, you probably live
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  S1: either in East Nashville or in Franklin or.
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  S2: I'm in I'm in East Nashville and Hendersonville has become
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  S2: pretty hip, actually.
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  S1: Is it really okay? Super. All I know is I
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  S1: look at my I look at Zillow for my old
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  S1: house and my gosh, people are spending a lot of
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  S1: money on property in Nashville these days. I. I should
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  S1: have kept my house just for that reason as well.
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  S1: But it's it's the cool city. Yeah, I was I
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  S1: was just talking to.
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  S2: You in Nashville. You're in Nashville for a little bit. And, uh,
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  S2: so what was the weirdest like, I can't believe that
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  S2: person is here moment.
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  S1: I don't know.
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  S2: Um.
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  S1: I mean, it was probably when William Golden would give.
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  S1: That's his name, right? William Golden is the guy the
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  S1: Oak Ridge boys, right? I'm trying to remember. Um, he
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  S1: would give my daughter, like, little books and autograph books
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  S1: and and and she wouldn't know who he was. You know,
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  S1: he's got, he's the one with the really long beard. Right.
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  S1: I apologize, I don't know this specifically, but I think
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  S1: that's the case. And so, you know, it was always
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  S1: fun questions. Exactly. I was at Two Rivers, um, you know,
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  S1: for as an interim there for a while. Matter of fact,
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  S1: I've preached at your church in another iteration a long,
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  S1: long time ago. But anyway, super fun to have you
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  S1: on the program and have these Nashville. I'm actually coming
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  S1: to Nashville just a few weeks. So I'm like, I'm like, I'm,
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  S1: we're doing a, we're launching a seminary program in Nashville, Tennessee.
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  S1: So people will be able to get their seminary degree
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  S1: right there in Nashville. So I'm coming. They're doing an
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  S1: event at First Baptist. So anyway, that's not what I'm
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  S1: here to talk about. I want to talk about your book,
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  S1: The Prayer Experiment. Now, the prayer experiment is it's kind
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  S1: of a fascinating conversation I want to have with you
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  S1: because I mean, like, we're all kind of in favor
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  S1: of prayer, but it's kind of a unique perspective. Um,
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  S1: you know, praying the Lord's Prayer and more. And you're
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  S1: in Nashville. I mean, like I teach at Wycliffe Hall
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  S1: at Oxford University, and we pray the Lord's Prayer every
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  S1: morning when we gather together for morning prayer. But in
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  S1: kind of the low church of Angelical world, that's a
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  S1: different vibe. So talk to us a little bit about
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  S1: the prayer experiment and what that kind of came from. Why, why,
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  S1: why you do this?
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  S2: Yes. So, um, I've loved, I need to say up front,
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  S2: you know, I've loved Jesus for, for 30 years and
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  S2: I've done everything I can to follow him, taking his
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  S2: teachings in the sermon on the Mount very seriously, and
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  S2: have learnt without a shadow of a doubt, when you
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  S2: do things the Jesus way, it works out best. Um,
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  S2: so I'm a, you know, I'm a pastor. So I
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  S2: teach the Bible a lot. Um, love, love scripture. Um,
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  S2: but along the way, I think the, the study and
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  S2: the preaching kind of ended up over overwhelming the prayer side, uh, of, of, uh,
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  S2: of my spiritual disciplines. And so, uh, and for, for
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  S2: various reasons, as you know, the weight of adulthood, uh,
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  S2: lent down upon me. It, it became clear to me that, um,
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  S2: I love Jesus and I have for a very long time,
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  S2: but I never felt that good at prayer. Um, and I,
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  S2: and I often wondered whether I always knew it was important,
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  S2: but wondered whether, you know, other people in the body
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  S2: should maybe carry that thing. Um, but anyway, at the
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  S2: start of 2025, we're preaching a seven week series on
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  S2: the Lord's Prayer. And, uh, and I, you know, I
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  S2: was a bit nervous about showing up to work, which
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  S2: is a problem when your job title is lead pastor,
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  S2: because every, every now and then there's a series you
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  S2: need to teach through where you just don't have much
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  S2: mastery over it. Um, so I think you have two
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  S2: choices as a pastor. You're either fake it or you
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  S2: choose to, you know, work closely alongside the congregation and
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  S2: figure this thing out. And I still remember standing in
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  S2: front of our room here at Rocketown on, on Fourth Avenue.
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  S2: And these, these words I've read a million times leapt
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  S2: off the page. This, then, is how you should pray.
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  S2: This is Jesus speaking in the sermon on the Mount.
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  S2: And it occurred to me, I've tried every single way
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  S2: of praying over the course of my life, haven't felt
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  S2: very good at it, maybe at times, haven't even been
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  S2: certain exactly what it's for or what I should expect
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  S2: out of prayer. But reading these words of Jesus, it
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  S2: really hit me that I've never actually taken Jesus seriously.
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  S2: This is this is probably the one area where Jesus
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  S2: has said, this is this is how you should do something.
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  S2: And I hadn't even tried it, so I just committed.
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  S2: I didn't want to be the, the lead pastor who was,
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  S2: who was not good at praying. So I just decided
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  S2: I want to figure this out. So I committed to
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  S2: just praying, you know, the Lord's Prayer pretty exclusively several
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  S2: times a day for the rest of the year until
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  S2: I figured out what what the deal was. Why would
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  S2: Jesus say to pray this way?
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  S1: So good. And it's not that. It's not simply, you know,
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  S1: the obvious question is, is like in the morning when
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  S1: we're over at Wycliffe Hall at Oxford, you know, we
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  S1: gather together before class and we recite the Lord's Prayer
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  S1: every day, among other things, as well as part of
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  S1: a morning prayer. It's what your recommendation is. It's more
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  S1: than simply reciting not not that you're against that, that's great,
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  S1: but it's more than simply reciting the Lord's Prayer every day.
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  S1: It's kind of a I mean, you kind of frame
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  S1: it as a as an outline, or I might say
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  S1: a framework for your own prayers, kind of moving through that.
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  S1: So unpack that a little, because I think we're all
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  S1: familiar with the Lord's Prayer. Our father in heaven, hallowed
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  S1: be thy name. But how do you engage the Lord's
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  S1: Prayer and the practice of prayer in your own life?
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  S1: And what do you recommend to us in the book?
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  S3: Yeah. Well.
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  S2: So what you just described is exactly what I experienced.
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  S2: I'm like, I, you know, I was, I was raised Methodist.
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  S2: We would pray this every Sunday. Um, and I just
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  S2: hadn't done it much, you know, since then. And, and
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  S2: I'm like, I have recited this a fair bit and it,
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  S2: it doesn't, it doesn't seem to move me or it
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  S2: doesn't seem to be. I just wanted to understand how,
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  S2: how this could be like if Jesus said it, there's
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  S2: something to this. And I just did a bunch of
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  S2: work to, to figure out how it could work in
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  S2: my life. So I started off just by reciting it, um,
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  S2: you know, several times a day and about a couple
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  S2: of weeks in, I'm like, I don't, I don't think
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  S2: that's it. We also had the advantage of we're teaching,
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  S2: you know, there's, there's six, five, six, seven movements in
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  S2: the Lord's Prayer depending on how you how you break
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  S2: it up. Um, and so we had, I had the
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  S2: advantage of, as I'm trying to figure this out, we're
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  S2: teaching through basically a sentence at a time and really
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  S2: kind of getting beneath the language as well. So what I,
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  S2: what I discovered eventually was when I'd pray, I'd usually
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  S2: pray in response to something that was happening in my life.
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  S2: And I just pray each movement of the Lord's Prayer,
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  S2: I'd say the actual words, Jesus words. And then I
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  S2: would use put my own language to just kind of
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  S2: praying through the thing in that, you know, in that movement. So,
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  S2: you know, there's 5 or 6 movements in the Lord's Prayer,
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  S2: depending on how you, uh, how you break it up.
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  S2: And I was only really doing one of those. I
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  S2: think I was doing a pretty typical Western Christian thing
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  S2: where I was, um, asking God for stuff and that
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  S2: it would ask, requesting that it would be done in
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  S2: a very specific way, and then being very disappointed when, uh,
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  S2: when I didn't get, you know, exactly my way, uh,
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  S2: in prayer. So for the record, I'm a genius at
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  S2: asking God for things. Um, but there was, uh, there's
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  S2: so much more to prayer, you know, prayer at its,
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  S2: in its essence is humans talking to God. And there's,
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  S2: there's something about this framework, um, that has just led
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  S2: me to great intimacy and it's something I really look
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  S2: forward to now. Like I'm a, I am a prayer.
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  S2: I'm one of those Christians who, uh, who prayers become.
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  S1: I love it. I love how.
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  S2: That.
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  S1: I love how engaging the word as a as a
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  S1: message challenged your heart. I think that's, you know, you
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  S1: kind of articulate something. It's true for pastors is that,
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  S1: you know, we got to preach through things, you know,
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  S1: and I think it's a fair reality. We preach the
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  S1: perfect word of God. So we always preach a better
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  S1: sermon than we live. We always have to live up
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  S1: to the standard of God's Word, which is perfect and
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  S1: we're not. So that's a key thing. And you, you
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  S1: kind of aligned your life with the message. I love that. Um,
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  S1: the book is the prayer experiment. How praying like Jesus
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  S1: Realigns everything. And again, the prayer experiment is something that
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  S1: Matt kind of walked through in his own life. He's
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  S1: inviting us to walk through as well. I want to
• 10:24
  S1: invite you to call. Maybe you have questions about how
• 10:26
  S1: you might pray the Lord's Prayer. Maybe you do that
• 10:28
  S1: as well. I'm actually going to share like that's a
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  S1: practice that I've done, Matt, for a long, a long
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  S1: time because I read a book like probably 30 years ago,
• 10:36
  S1: and it's not something I do every day, but something
• 10:39
  S1: when I have. I love having an extended time of prayer. Um,
• 10:42
  S1: you know, going through the Lord's Prayer, we're going to
• 10:44
  S1: do that and unpack that together, just like he does
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  S1: in the prayer experiment. How praying like Jesus realigns everything.
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  S1: But I want to invite our callers in. Maybe you
• 10:52
  S1: have questions, or maybe you want to share how you
• 10:54
  S1: pray the Lord's Prayer, the maybe the variant of how
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  S1: you might express that in your own life. Our number
• 11:00
  S1: is (877) 548-3675. Again, that's (877) 548-3675. Um, so when the disciples say, Lord,
• 11:13
  S1: teach us to pray, it's interesting. They don't say teach
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  S1: us how to pray, which is kind of an interesting variant. Um,
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  S1: they teach us to pray. He gives them a prayer.
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  S1: So what does that tell us about how prayer is learned?
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  S2: Yeah. So, so what I, what I think is interesting is,
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  S2: you know, Jesus obviously is the actual Son of God.
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  S2: And so there was something about the way that Jesus
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  S2: prayed that that caught the attention of the disciples. And
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  S2: I've just been super interested in the different components of
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  S2: this and I found it so, so helpful. Um, and honestly,
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  S2: beginning with our father is, you know, the very first word, our,
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  S2: when you meditate on that and think it through, the
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  S2: implications of that are immense because I've found myself. The
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  S2: truth is I probably, you know, it starts off with
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  S2: how to address God. And I guess probably what was
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  S2: more true of my prayer prior to, you know, a
• 12:11
  S2: couple of years ago, was that I'd be praying to
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  S2: my distant deity on the other side of the moon,
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  S2: maybe not like our father in heaven. So the pronouns
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  S2: seem to matter in the Lord's Prayer. And there's there's
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  S2: lots of plural stuff here. So it's our father, your, uh,
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  S2: your will be done on earth as in heaven. Give
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  S2: us today our daily bread. So it begins, you kind
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  S2: of just reminds you that there's, you can't really only
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  S2: child your way in prayer. Like there's, you know, there's, there's,
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  S2: there's a bunch of us praying for stuff and no.
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  S1: I didn't get that. I didn't get. You can't only
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  S1: child your way. I mean, explain that for me. I'm
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  S1: not sure I followed you on that.
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  S3: Yeah.
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  S2: So, um, I think, you know so so Vandy are
• 12:53
  S2: playing football today right. There's I'm sure there's there's two
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  S2: Christians out there, two sons of the father, one of us,
• 13:00
  S2: one of us praying for a Vandy win and someone
• 13:02
  S2: else praying for the other team, uh, to win. So
• 13:05
  S2: as we bring our prayer requests to the father, we, we,
• 13:08
  S2: we remember that it's not just us. I think as Westerners,
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  S2: I have found this anyway, as an Australian who, who
• 13:15
  S2: lives in the States, um, that, that my prayer life
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  S2: can become very, very self-centered. And Jesus, just the way
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  S2: he frames it up is we're talking to our father
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  S2: and you know, Jesus, the word Jesus was using was
• 13:27
  S2: the Aramaic ABBA, which is, you know, kind of like
• 13:30
  S2: in the semantic range of, of Papa and, and daddy,
• 13:34
  S2: you know, somewhere in there that what a child would,
• 13:37
  S2: would call an adult. And, um, and so that, that
• 13:40
  S2: stuck out to me as well. That was always super
• 13:43
  S2: interesting to me that maybe the posture of prayer is, um,
• 13:47
  S2: I think I've gone into prayer very often and this
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  S2: is a very arrogant thing to say, but almost feeling
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  S2: like an equal, like, here's exactly how this is going
• 13:54
  S2: to have to go because I know a bunch of stuff, God,
• 13:56
  S2: you know, but Jesus is like, there's more than one
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  S2: person praying. You know, it's not, it's not just you.
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  S2: You're part of a community of believers. It's our father.
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  S2: And I've always found the, the imagery of, of coming
• 14:09
  S2: to God more as a, as a small child and
• 14:11
  S2: understanding that that's kind of the relationship and the, the
• 14:14
  S2: power dynamic. The difference between us is, is a really
• 14:17
  S2: helpful place to start. Like basically acknowledging I'm not the
• 14:20
  S2: smartest guy in this conversation is, has been a really
• 14:24
  S2: helpful pivot in how I, how I've started praying.
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  S1: Love it. Okay, we're going to continue our conversation with
• 14:30
  S1: Matt Smallbone. Our number is (877) 548-3675. We're talking about his book,
• 14:36
  S1: The Prayer Experiment How praying like Jesus Realigns everything. And
• 14:40
  S1: by praying like Jesus, we're specifically talking about what's sometimes
• 14:43
  S1: called the Lord's Prayer. We might also call it the
• 14:45
  S1: Disciples Model Prayer. We'd love to hear about your prayer
• 14:47
  S1: practices around that as well. Eight. Seven. 7548. Three six.
• 14:52
  S1: Seven five. Again, that's (877) 548-3675. Alright we're back. Ed Stetzer live.
• 15:08
  S1: I'm Ed Stetzer talking about Smallbone, his books, the prayer experiment,
• 15:11
  S1: how praying like Jesus Realigns everything. We're actually haven't taken
• 15:15
  S1: your calls as well. I should mention we got a
• 15:17
  S1: few copies of the book to give away as well. So, uh,
• 15:21
  S1: not not to like, hey, I'm the first caller or
• 15:23
  S1: the seventh caller. No, it's to, it's to insightful questions
• 15:26
  S1: or comments again. (877) 548-3675. I did sort of frame it
• 15:31
  S1: by asking people like, what prayer practices do you do? Um, like,
• 15:35
  S1: like in and around or possibly related to the Lord's Prayer.
• 15:39
  S1: So let's first go to Penny in Alabama and ask
• 15:41
  S1: her her comment or her question. Penny, you're live on
• 15:44
  S1: the air. Go right ahead.
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  S4: The Lord's Prayer says, hallowed be thy name. How can
• 15:50
  S4: you remind people to avoid taking the name of God
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  S4: in vain?
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  S1: Oh. How fascinating. Okay, good. That's a good question, Penny.
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  S1: If you hold on the line too, we're going to
• 16:00
  S1: give you a copy of the prayer experiment. How? Praying
• 16:02
  S1: like Jesus Realigns everything. I don't remember you specifically addressing
• 16:07
  S1: this in the book, but you do talk about, you know,
• 16:11
  S1: what it means to, to, to, to honor the Lord
• 16:14
  S1: in such a prayer and in such a way. So
• 16:16
  S1: what do you think about Penny's question?
• 16:18
  S3: I think it's a really good one.
• 16:20
  S2: I actually, I'd be curious to know, like when you
• 16:22
  S2: do the hermeneutical work of using God's name in vain,
• 16:26
  S2: where have you landed on what that means in 2026?
• 16:30
  S2: Like what's your.
• 16:31
  S1: Yeah, me. So I find that it's more than simply, uh,
• 16:34
  S1: you know, profanity, though I will tell you that using
• 16:37
  S1: profanity does deeply offend me, but I think it's using
• 16:39
  S1: the Lord's name for purposes other than his intended purpose
• 16:43
  S1: that well, that that defame his name. I think Carmen IM's,
• 16:47
  S1: one of my professors has written some great things on
• 16:50
  S1: that as, as well. But it's yeah, it's more than
• 16:52
  S1: simply just a swear word.
• 16:55
  S2: Yeah. Do you, do you think it's part of because
• 16:56
  S2: I wonder what she's getting at, whether she's she's worried
• 16:59
  S2: about the swear word. Great question Penny. By the way.
• 17:02
  S2: Um our neighbor to the south here. Um yeah. I
• 17:06
  S2: wonder whether she's getting at the actual word or because,
• 17:08
  S2: you know, I'm starting to think like, for me, using
• 17:11
  S2: God's name in vain is like, I think sometimes people
• 17:14
  S2: say a lot, God told me to do this thing,
• 17:16
  S2: you know, and, and there's sometimes in pastoral meetings where,
• 17:19
  S2: where God's telling some people to do some pretty strange,
• 17:22
  S2: almost sinful stuff. And I'm wondering whether that is that
• 17:25
  S2: is more the, you know, the.
• 17:27
  S1: I would certainly put that. I mean, that would be
• 17:29
  S1: part of the category for me. But but I would
• 17:31
  S1: also put in there I hear I see politicians using
• 17:33
  S1: God's name in vain. So I think there's a multifaceted
• 17:36
  S1: approach to what God's name in vain means. But I
• 17:38
  S1: think for her concern is we can actually ask her,
• 17:40
  S1: let's go back on Penny. Give us a little more
• 17:42
  S1: detail about what you mean by let me just where,
• 17:45
  S1: you know, how do we remind people not to use
• 17:47
  S1: the Lord's name in vain? Unpack that for us a
• 17:49
  S1: little more. Penny. Your life back on the air.
• 17:50
  S4: Um, particularly saying things like to exclaim God or golly gee,
• 17:56
  S4: things like this that are really not, uh, hallowing the
• 18:00
  S4: name of God.
• 18:01
  S1: Oh that's fair. So you're talking more about that using verbally,
• 18:05
  S1: like maybe in profanity or things of that sort. So, so.
• 18:08
  S1: All right, so hallowed be thy name. Uh, unpack that
• 18:11
  S1: for us and then maybe tie it into Penny's question
• 18:15
  S1: about how help helping take God's name more seriously is
• 18:18
  S1: something that's we want we want to value.
• 18:20
  S2: Yeah. So you know where it works in the prayer.
• 18:23
  S2: It comes in. And I think the order matters here.
• 18:25
  S2: It's it's our father. So I'm a little kid and
• 18:27
  S2: I'm one of many kids, uh, in heaven. Um, which
• 18:31
  S2: means it's not just this loving father, Uh, but he
• 18:34
  S2: has the power to do stuff about what we're about
• 18:36
  S2: to pray about. And then hallowed be your name. Um,
• 18:39
  S2: you know, as I understand. Hello. As the as a verb,
• 18:42
  S2: it means to respect greatly. Um, so to hallow God's
• 18:45
  S2: name is to say like, there is no one like you.
• 18:48
  S2: You're one of a kind. Um. You're beautiful and sacred.
• 18:52
  S2: And so, you know, once we get beneath that word
• 18:55
  S2: and it's a strange word that we don't use in English.
• 18:57
  S2: In fact, when I was little, I used to think
• 19:00
  S2: it was Harold be thy name. And I wondered why
• 19:02
  S2: us Methodists cared so much about this, uh, this guy Harold. Um, but, uh. Yeah, no,
• 19:09
  S2: I think, uh, you know, an important part of the
• 19:12
  S2: prayer is, is like, it's it's the phrase here is
• 19:15
  S2: like setting up who we are talking to. So it's
• 19:18
  S2: this kind and loving, more powerful and more intelligent being
• 19:24
  S2: whose name we Revere. And so in the context of
• 19:26
  S2: the prayer, it's the opposite of, um, using, you know,
• 19:31
  S2: foul language. It's saying, God, I, I deeply respect you.
• 19:35
  S2: You are holy. And it really sets sets the scene
• 19:39
  S2: for for what we ask, what we're about to ask for.
• 19:43
  S1: Yeah, it does seem I again, the first book I
• 19:45
  S1: read about this was about 30 years ago and saying,
• 19:48
  S1: you know, hallowed be thy name or your name. Be
• 19:50
  S1: Holy is a realignment moment in the prayer. It's okay,
• 19:54
  S1: I'm God is holy, I am, I mean, I'm made
• 19:58
  S1: holy in Christ, but but it's acknowledging his holiness. And,
• 20:03
  S1: and then as we lean into that, even the questions,
• 20:05
  S1: the requests we bring are shaped by the nature of God.
• 20:08
  S1: So I do, I do love I mean, the Lord's
• 20:10
  S1: Prayer is. So the disciples model prayer is, I like
• 20:13
  S1: to call. It is so powerful. And I love that
• 20:15
  S1: you're kind of leaning in on that as well. We
• 20:18
  S1: got we got some other calls, but let me invite
• 20:19
  S1: people to call as well. And we're talking about maybe
• 20:22
  S1: ways we use the Lord's Prayer or questions about the
• 20:23
  S1: Lord's Prayer. Um, eight, seven, seven, five, four, 83675 again.
• 20:30
  S1: 775483675 is our number. Let's go to Kirk in Lake Worth.
• 20:38
  S1: Excuse me, Lake Worth, Florida. I have to say that slowly. Kirk,
• 20:42
  S1: you're live on the air. Go ahead with your question
• 20:43
  S1: or comment.
• 20:46
  S5: Good morning. Uh, would you please, Mr. Smallbone, would you please?
• 20:51
  S5: Or Pastor Smallbone, would you please tell us now, briefly,
• 20:56
  S5: what are all the different. You keep talking about the
• 20:58
  S5: different segments and I'd love to hear what each you know,
• 21:03
  S5: just briefly, the name you give each one of them.
• 21:06
  S5: So it'll help me follow the transition of, of from
• 21:10
  S5: where you're going to where the end and, and I may,
• 21:14
  S5: you may not be able to cover all of them,
• 21:15
  S5: but I'd love to know what are the sections of
• 21:18
  S5: the prayer, how you break it down?
• 21:20
  S1: Yeah, I think that's pretty good. I mean, that's pretty,
• 21:21
  S1: pretty basic and probably important for us to do. Kirk,
• 21:23
  S1: hold on just a second. We're going to give you
• 21:25
  S1: a copy of the Prayer Experiment. How praying like Jesus
• 21:28
  S1: Realigns everything. If you don't mind. We have a familiarity.
• 21:30
  S1: Almost everyone will have a familiarity with the text. So.
• 21:33
  S1: So say the text, but then explain to us some
• 21:36
  S1: of what you're drawing out of that in the book,
• 21:38
  S1: the prayer Experiment.
• 21:39
  S2: Yeah. So I kind of pray in 5 or 6 movements.
• 21:42
  S2: And usually I start off with our father in heaven,
• 21:45
  S2: hallowed be your name. And this is this is a
• 21:47
  S2: moment of adoration, actually. So I would, um, theologians would
• 21:51
  S2: often call this adoration the second movement. I would call
• 21:54
  S2: a submission of our will. So it's your kingdom come,
• 21:57
  S2: your will be done. And in this part of the
• 21:59
  S2: prayer you're saying, I'm about to ask for something very specific,
• 22:02
  S2: but I legitimately want your will to be done. I
• 22:06
  S2: acknowledge that you are much smarter, but I'm not the
• 22:10
  S2: smartest guy in this conversation. So it's a submission of
• 22:12
  S2: will is the second one. You will be done on
• 22:15
  S2: earth as it is in heaven. Um, give us today
• 22:17
  S2: our daily bread. This is this is the part where,
• 22:20
  S2: where we ask for the thing. Um, very interesting that
• 22:23
  S2: the word day or daily today and daily appear twice
• 22:27
  S2: in one phrase. It's like Jesus is doubling down on
• 22:30
  S2: an idea that a part of prayer is sort of
• 22:34
  S2: like focusing on on what what we might need before bedtime.
• 22:37
  S2: So that's super interesting to think about that. But that's
• 22:40
  S2: the request movement. Uh, something I never prayed for regularly
• 22:44
  S2: that Jesus seems to think we need to pray for
• 22:46
  S2: all the time is movement for which is, um, uh,
• 22:50
  S2: forgive us our debts as we have also forgiven our debtors.
• 22:53
  S2: So the wages taught the disciples to pray was that every,
• 22:56
  S2: every time they went to prayer, that they had to
• 22:58
  S2: search their hearts for any need for forgiveness and to
• 23:00
  S2: forgive somebody else. Uh, and then, uh, the final movement
• 23:04
  S2: is something that I didn't get into much at all,
• 23:06
  S2: but it's, um, spiritual warfare. Lead us not into temptation,
• 23:09
  S2: but deliver us from the evil one. And, uh, that
• 23:12
  S2: has been a daily reminder to me, um, that I
• 23:15
  S2: live in contested space and that, uh, that we're asking
• 23:19
  S2: for protection from God. So those are really the 5
• 23:22
  S2: or 6 movements some people pass out, you know, hallowed
• 23:24
  S2: be your name as a slightly different thing as well,
• 23:27
  S2: but those are. That's how I do it.
• 23:30
  S1: Do I like it, I like it, I think it.
• 23:31
  S1: And so just to kind of get a picture of this.
• 23:34
  S1: So when you're praying, you're sort of saying that phrase
• 23:38
  S1: in the Lord's Prayer, and then you're going to more
• 23:43
  S1: in that direction. You mentioned you give us this day
• 23:45
  S1: our daily bread. So at that point, you're kind of
• 23:47
  S1: articulating your needs to the Lord. Lord, I pray for
• 23:49
  S1: this and I pray for that. And am I understanding
• 23:52
  S1: that correctly? And then if so, like, how much time
• 23:54
  S1: are you walking through each of these steps or, or
• 23:57
  S1: parts of the Lord's Prayer?
• 23:59
  S2: Yeah. So, you know, tons of reps in it by
• 24:01
  S2: this point, but it's anywhere between 2 minutes or 10 minutes,
• 24:05
  S2: you know, usually, um, you spend more time on, on
• 24:09
  S2: one part of it. Um, but it's, it's usually pretty
• 24:12
  S2: quick and, um, you know, one of the big mistakes
• 24:15
  S2: I'd always made with prayer was I was always like,
• 24:18
  S2: I felt a bit ashamed that I was never the
• 24:20
  S2: guy who could get up at 4 a.m. to prayer
• 24:22
  S2: and to pray in all of my spiritual heroes did that.
• 24:25
  S2: And so as part of my experiment, I just wanted
• 24:27
  S2: to to see if there was a way that I
• 24:29
  S2: could pray that worked in the busyness of, of, of
• 24:32
  S2: my life of, you know, pastoring this, this growing church
• 24:36
  S2: in this kind of strange post-Christian zip code right in
• 24:39
  S2: the middle of the Bible belt, raising four kids. My
• 24:42
  S2: oldest kid has special needs. Um, always felt too tired
• 24:46
  S2: to get up super early. So I was just curious
• 24:48
  S2: to see if there was a way to make this work. Um, in,
• 24:51
  S2: in the way that, you know, God had made me
• 24:54
  S2: to be. And so I find myself praying, praying this
• 24:58
  S2: prayer in the car or, you know, in my bedroom,
• 25:00
  S2: all sorts of all sorts of different places. But yeah,
• 25:03
  S2: I've done a fair bit of work on my Instagram actually, because,
• 25:06
  S2: because people are quite interested in how it actually works out.
• 25:08
  S2: And so I've got a bunch of prayers on there. Um,
• 25:11
  S2: you know, and it's, I really do think this is,
• 25:13
  S2: I almost called this book the only prayer you need. Uh,
• 25:15
  S2: the publisher talked me out of it. Uh, but, um,
• 25:18
  S2: you know, I've got there a prayer for those, uh,
• 25:20
  S2: going to homecoming alone. And then I just kind of,
• 25:23
  S2: you know, pray through each of those movements. I try to,
• 25:25
  S2: when I'm praying about something, I'll throw the old one
• 25:28
  S2: up there.
• 25:30
  S1: You actually look at your Instagram and it's kind of
• 25:32
  S1: you've kind of got kind of posted so people can
• 25:34
  S1: go there. And if you go to your live.com, you
• 25:37
  S1: can link to the book, you can link to his Instagram.
• 25:40
  S1: It's all listed right there as well. But we're going
• 25:42
  S1: to continue our conversation with Matt Smallbone, our phone number
• 25:45
  S1: for your calls (877) 548-3675. Again, that's (877) 548-3675. Stay with us.
• 26:05
  S6: All right, we're back and lots of phone calls.
• 26:07
  S1: People are interested in this topic and I love that.
• 26:09
  S1: I think it's an important topic for us. I appreciate
• 26:12
  S1: the fact that our guest, Matt Smallbone, he's a pastor,
• 26:14
  S1: by the way, at church of the city, downtown Nashville.
• 26:17
  S1: I kind of like the fact that he started by saying,
• 26:20
  S1: you know, he was a pastor and maybe this wasn't
• 26:22
  S1: his biggest strength, and going through this series sort of
• 26:25
  S1: reshaped the way his his personal practice was as well.
• 26:29
  S1: And by the way, if you know Nashville, I know
• 26:31
  S1: that he just said a second ago, that's kind of
• 26:33
  S1: the secular little pocket in Nashville. I know where he lives.
• 26:36
  S1: And there is truth to this fact. Um, I lived
• 26:39
  S1: in Hendersonville, which was the Bible Belt ish for sure.
• 26:43
  S1: But there are parts of Nashville that are much more secular. Um,
• 26:46
  S1: you know, Franklin is not, uh, downtown Nashville. So, uh,
• 26:50
  S1: though all of my friends keep moving to Nashville, I just,
• 26:52
  S1: I just was yelling at Henry Cloud the other day
• 26:54
  S1: for moving from California to Nashville. Do you know we
• 26:57
  S1: need Christians out here in California? Stop moving to Nashville, everybody.
• 27:02
  S1: All right. Sorry, I got that out of my system,
• 27:03
  S1: but it did feel good to sort of just yell
• 27:06
  S1: that into the void.
• 27:07
  S2: He's in East Nashville, though. And to your point, I
• 27:09
  S2: know we need him.
• 27:10
  S1: That's true. That is true. That is true. But it's still,
• 27:12
  S1: I don't know, it's still Nashville. You know, I remember
• 27:15
  S1: when I was in Nashville, you know, we lived there
• 27:16
  S1: a decade. I was a vice president of LifeWay. And we, we,
• 27:19
  S1: we moved to Chicago to lead the Billy Graham Center,
• 27:21
  S1: and I served at Moody Church while I was there. And, um,
• 27:25
  S1: and I think we were the only person driving up
• 27:27
  S1: 65 to Nashville because the number one city that people
• 27:30
  S1: moved to Nashville from is Chicago. And so it's like
• 27:35
  S1: all these people, like for ten people moving to Nashville,
• 27:37
  S1: we're moving to Chicago. But you know, you go, I
• 27:39
  S1: get you got to go where the Lord calls you.
• 27:41
  S1: But we sure like to have you out in California
• 27:43
  S1: making much of Jesus. But again, you are in a
• 27:46
  S1: unique part of Nashville, an Australian in a unique part
• 27:50
  S1: of Nashville. You know, I made fun of hiring Australians,
• 27:53
  S1: but John Dixon I hired at Wheaton College because one
• 27:56
  S1: of the things I like about hiring somebody from Australia
• 28:00
  S1: is like, John was a he doesn't like the word apologist.
• 28:04
  S1: He's kind of apologist out in Australia and he's kind
• 28:06
  S1: of Australia's kind of living in our secular future. So
• 28:09
  S1: if trends continue, uh, he's living in a secular future
• 28:12
  S1: right now. By the way, trending on Twitter is that
• 28:16
  S1: there's been an increase in church attendance in America. The
• 28:18
  S1: Hartford Institute has said this. I want you to know
• 28:20
  S1: that's not true. That's a misquoting of the data. There's
• 28:23
  S1: not been any widespread increase in church attendance. We still
• 28:28
  S1: are moving in a more secular direction with some positive signs.
• 28:32
  S1: There are some positive signs. So let's pray for revival
• 28:36
  S1: to come. But revival is not yet here anyway. That's
• 28:39
  S1: totally an aside. That's not what we're talking about. We're
• 28:41
  S1: talking about the prayer experiment. How praying like Jesus realigns
• 28:44
  S1: everything as well. So let's go to Philip in. I
• 28:47
  S1: don't know where you are in Florida, but I know
• 28:49
  S1: you're listening on KW s, Philip, you're live on the air.
• 28:51
  S1: Go right ahead.
• 28:53
  S7: Yeah. I was wondering, um, you know, growing up in
• 28:57
  S7: church off and on, um, you know, we were taught
• 29:01
  S7: the Lord's Prayer that you just said it in a,
• 29:05
  S7: like a rote way, you know, just just repeating the words. Um,
• 29:09
  S7: but later on, um, I came to find out that, uh,
• 29:14
  S7: we should use that as an outline and then say
• 29:19
  S7: it from our heart in the specific meanings of each
• 29:23
  S7: one of those lines in the prayer. I just want
• 29:25
  S7: to make sure I'm correct in that thinking.
• 29:28
  S1: Yeah. Now, let me give you a little more question here, Philip. Now,
• 29:30
  S1: is it correct? Carl Scudder said you were a pastor
• 29:32
  S1: working on a series on this as well. Is that correct?
• 29:35
  S7: Yeah, I was. I'm getting ready to do it. And
• 29:38
  S7: I just happened to I listened to the station all
• 29:42
  S7: the time, but, um, just happened to listen to it
• 29:45
  S7: on my way to the church and I said, listen
• 29:47
  S7: to this. Here it is, you know. And so I
• 29:49
  S7: was thinking this would be some good added information to
• 29:52
  S7: what I'm doing.
• 29:54
  S1: Super, super. Well, Philip two I would love to hear. Matt.
• 29:56
  S1: I mean, explain first of all, let's give Philip a
• 29:58
  S1: copy of your book, The Prayer Experiment, but tell us
• 30:01
  S1: a little bit how you preach through this, because this is,
• 30:03
  S1: you know, like a lot of pastors, you preach through
• 30:04
  S1: this and then wrote a book from it. Is that
• 30:06
  S1: a fair description?
• 30:07
  S2: Yeah. That's right. We did a seven week series.
• 30:10
  S1: Love it.
• 30:10
  S2: Yeah, yeah. Did a seven week series, became a what
• 30:13
  S2: is it? I don't know, 1112 chapter book with, uh,
• 30:16
  S2: with a 30 day prayer guide to praying like Jesus
• 30:19
  S2: there at the end. But yeah, I did it in
• 30:21
  S2: seven weeks. The very first week, uh, I, I called, uh,
• 30:26
  S2: it was a bit of a preview, but how not
• 30:28
  S2: to pray because in, in the sermon on the Mount, uh,
• 30:30
  S2: version of it, Jesus says there's two ways not to
• 30:33
  S2: pray like a, like a Pharisee and a pagan. And
• 30:36
  S2: as I did the hermeneutical work to figure out what
• 30:38
  S2: that means in 2026, I realized I was doing a
• 30:41
  S2: fair bit of that accidentally. So decided, uh, decided not to,
• 30:46
  S2: you know, to do that. And then we, we just
• 30:49
  S2: went through each of those movements that I talked about earlier,
• 30:51
  S2: you know, so the first week, you know, talking about
• 30:53
  S2: the attentive father, for example, um, there's a lot of great,
• 30:58
  S2: you know, there's some, there's some of the strangest phrases
• 31:01
  S2: in the New Testament actually appear in this prayer. We just,
• 31:04
  S2: we've just heard it so much that they don't stand
• 31:06
  S2: out to us. Um, you know, our father who is
• 31:08
  S2: in heaven, hallowed. That's a, that's a whole sermon on itself.
• 31:12
  S2: And so basically, yeah, the first week was how not
• 31:15
  S2: to pray. And then, you know, the next six weeks
• 31:17
  S2: was kind of just working through, uh, you know, a verse,
• 31:21
  S2: a verse at a time.
• 31:22
  S1: Uh, did.
• 31:23
  S2: You.
• 31:23
  S1: Did you sort of did you invite the congregation to
• 31:26
  S1: go on this prayer experiment with you?
• 31:29
  S2: Yeah. So what we did, I didn't really, because I
• 31:31
  S2: had to figure it out for myself.
• 31:33
  S1: Well that's fair. You talked about your own wrestling with that,
• 31:35
  S1: for sure. Yeah.
• 31:36
  S2: Yeah. What? What I figured out eventually was what we
• 31:39
  S2: do as a church is when we pray through the
• 31:41
  S2: Lord's Prayer, we, you know, because we're gathering up once
• 31:44
  S2: on a Sunday morning, we I ask them to pray
• 31:47
  S2: for the big thing. So we just take a moment
• 31:49
  S2: and say, what's the big thing that's going on in
• 31:51
  S2: your life right now? Um, and so people just name
• 31:54
  S2: it where there are because there's, you know, hundreds, hundreds
• 31:56
  S2: of different stories in the room. And then we just
• 31:58
  S2: kind of move through it one movement at a time.
• 32:01
  S2: You know, our father in heaven, we'll start there and
• 32:03
  S2: we'll just kind of acknowledge that we're we're talking to
• 32:06
  S2: a father and we'll just kind of work through work
• 32:08
  S2: through it. One, one piece at a time is how we,
• 32:12
  S2: how we do it corporately.
• 32:15
  S1: What advice would you give? What advice would you give
• 32:16
  S1: to Philip to preach this?
• 32:18
  S2: Yeah. I think there's, you know, plenty. Plenty. I mean,
• 32:22
  S2: there's plenty of great, you know, commentaries written on all
• 32:25
  S2: of the content of the sermon on the Mount. So
• 32:27
  S2: there's plenty of great stuff there. Um, so use that. Um,
• 32:32
  S2: but regarding his, you know, he's got this question about,
• 32:34
  S2: you know, is it a framework that you would say
• 32:36
  S2: bits from your heart that that is where I landed
• 32:39
  S2: with it. Philip. That's, that's kind of where my journey
• 32:41
  S2: has taken me. Uh, my friend John Tyson, who's a,
• 32:44
  S2: you know, uh, lead pastor of church of the city,
• 32:47
  S2: New York, he's got this great gosh.
• 32:49
  S1: And another Australian. You guys are like a cult. But anyway.
• 32:53
  S2: Yeah, apologies for that. We do have some Americans hanging around. Uh,
• 32:56
  S2: I think it's fair for you guys to know that
• 32:58
  S2: he's got this great phrase, pray what you got. And
• 33:01
  S2: that is, um, you know, that might even be Philip.
• 33:03
  S2: That might that might be a great catch cry, uh,
• 33:07
  S2: for you to kind of come back to throughout the series.
• 33:10
  S2: And the idea there is, is like this. This can't
• 33:13
  S2: just be kind of a heartless liturgy. We've got to
• 33:16
  S2: connect our hearts to it. And you really want to encourage.
• 33:18
  S2: I've found a lot of value in encouraging my congregation
• 33:21
  S2: to pray in their own words. Um, you've got to pray.
• 33:24
  S2: Got to pray as as you are, not as you
• 33:27
  S2: wish you were. And there's, there's something, you know, in
• 33:30
  S2: that imagery of when we pray, we're a little kid
• 33:33
  S2: going to a loving father, use, use, use real words and,
• 33:38
  S2: and connect your heart to it. So I think you're
• 33:39
  S2: on the right track. Philip. I'd love to hear how
• 33:42
  S2: it goes.
• 33:43
  S1: Yeah, no, I think it's fascinating. And I do think
• 33:45
  S1: that the familiarity of the Lord's Prayer almost in my
• 33:49
  S1: I grew up, uh, nominally Catholic. So, you know, we, the,
• 33:53
  S1: the church we didn't go to was Catholic when I
• 33:55
  S1: grew up in New York City. But, but I did remember,
• 33:57
  S1: you know, we recite the Lord's Prayer, you know, and
• 33:59
  S1: it just became I mean, I could literally stumble over
• 34:02
  S1: the words, you know, our father in heaven, you know,
• 34:04
  S1: and so, so to slow down. But the familiarity of
• 34:09
  S1: it actually became, in a sense, a gift. I mean,
• 34:12
  S1: I can anywhere have an outline to pray through because
• 34:16
  S1: I know already this by heart. I mean, I have
• 34:18
  S1: this memorized, so it's for me. I can take that
• 34:21
  S1: next step into their as as well. All right. Let's
• 34:23
  S1: let's go to Raj. Raj in Oklahoma, you're live on
• 34:25
  S1: the air with your question or comment. Go ahead Raj.
• 34:28
  S8: Yeah. Pastor Smallbone, um, how were you able when you
• 34:32
  S8: were a musician and you were traveling, being away from
• 34:35
  S8: your family and then dealing with a miscarriage? My question
• 34:40
  S8: is how, what was most helpful to you to reconcile
• 34:45
  S8: your pain and prayer?
• 34:49
  S6: And that would probably.
• 34:50
  S1: Be thank you for your call. Rosh. Hold on a second.
• 34:52
  S1: We're going to give you a copy of the book, uh,
• 34:54
  S1: the prayer Experiment. How praying like Jesus Realigns everything. So that,
• 34:57
  S1: I mean, some of those things happen before you're kind
• 35:00
  S1: of had this, this experience with the Lord's Prayer, but
• 35:02
  S1: talk to us about that. What do you think about
• 35:04
  S1: Roger's question?
• 35:06
  S2: Yeah, man. It it was, you know, we have lots
• 35:09
  S2: of barriers to prayer. You know, some people it's it's,
• 35:13
  S2: you know, for me, a bit of it is personality.
• 35:14
  S2: I'm not really wired to love the thought of going
• 35:17
  S2: on a silent retreat. Like, I'd rather be at the
• 35:19
  S2: Magic Kingdom or something. Truth be told, you know, so
• 35:23
  S2: we all have our barriers. You know, perhaps it's it's personality,
• 35:26
  S2: but but for me, really, one of the reasons I
• 35:29
  S2: didn't pray much in my 30s was because of unanswered prayer.
• 35:33
  S2: And in particular, I think Raj has probably read the book. Uh,
• 35:36
  S2: I was playing bass for Michael W Smith on the
• 35:38
  S2: West Coast, which means you usually away from your family
• 35:42
  S2: for a little while. And I think we'd been gone
• 35:44
  S2: about ten days and Mary miscarried, and I missed the
• 35:47
  S2: whole thing because I was sleeping in, you know, West
• 35:49
  S2: coast time, uh, in a, in a hotel. So it
• 35:53
  S2: was a really weird moment for me because, you know,
• 35:55
  S2: we were immigrants. We'd moved to the other side of
• 35:57
  S2: the world to serve Jesus where, you know, feel like
• 36:00
  S2: we're doing good things, leading worship and connected with this
• 36:03
  S2: beautiful ministry. Like Michael W Smith's like one of the
• 36:06
  S2: good guys, you know, And then, um, it just broke
• 36:10
  S2: my heart that, um, you know, the prayer for this,
• 36:13
  S2: for this baby. Um, it just, it was just hard
• 36:17
  S2: for me to understand exactly what God was doing. And
• 36:20
  S2: I'd have other Christian friends who'd seem to be able
• 36:23
  S2: to pray for, like, a parking space in front of
• 36:26
  S2: the grocery store and they'd get it. And then me,
• 36:30
  S2: I'm kind of dealing with like, you know, this, this
• 36:32
  S2: loss of this child and the trauma of my wife
• 36:36
  S2: having to figure all of this out without us. And
• 36:38
  S2: it really broke my heart. And the truth is, I
• 36:40
  S2: didn't really pray my way through that and kind of
• 36:43
  S2: really stopped for a good while. And I wish I
• 36:45
  S2: had the framework for this, because what it would have
• 36:48
  S2: forced me to do, um, would have forced me to
• 36:51
  S2: work on forgiveness. Um, and, and it just took me
• 36:54
  S2: a really, really long time, uh, to, to get there
• 36:57
  S2: and have honest conversations with God about just how, how disappointing, uh, this,
• 37:02
  S2: this whole, this whole thing was. So one of my
• 37:05
  S2: barriers for prayer ER also is, you know, in amidst
• 37:09
  S2: all of that, I've always loved God and believed he
• 37:12
  S2: is good and kind and trusted Jesus. And I believe in,
• 37:15
  S2: you know, the theological idea of the sovereignty of God
• 37:18
  S2: that God will, you know, will ultimately, you know, kind
• 37:22
  S2: of do what he wants, whenever he wants, in a way.
• 37:24
  S2: And in the midst of that, I'm just going, what's
• 37:26
  S2: the point of me praying for my little thing, you know?
• 37:29
  S2: So that's, that's kind of how I lost my way. Um,
• 37:32
  S2: I think I would have bounced back Raj a lot
• 37:34
  S2: quicker had, um, had I had this, uh, framework for
• 37:39
  S2: prayer in front of me because, um, I think that
• 37:43
  S2: the only prayers I could really get to were like, man,
• 37:47
  S2: this is really unfair. Amen. And so it was very
• 37:52
  S2: honest what I was bringing, but there's just, there's just
• 37:55
  S2: a whole lot of healthy thing that comes out of praying,
• 37:58
  S2: praying this way when you really do submit, uh, before
• 38:02
  S2: you ask for things, when you pray actually for what
• 38:06
  S2: you need for that day rather than what you need
• 38:07
  S2: for that year. That's, um, that's a really light way
• 38:10
  S2: to live. And then when you do the business of forgiveness, um,
• 38:14
  S2: that will, that will set you free. Well, so there
• 38:16
  S2: are some deep soul work that I wasn't doing, uh,
• 38:18
  S2: in that season. And if I had this tool now
• 38:22
  S2: and now when tragedy hits, um, I feel much better
• 38:25
  S2: equipped to, to handle it and to, to kind of
• 38:28
  S2: know even, you know, the how to talk to God
• 38:32
  S2: about this stuff.
• 38:33
  S1: Yeah. And of course, you know, I'm, I'm a low
• 38:35
  S1: church evangelical like you are, we don't necessarily have a
• 38:37
  S1: high liturgy in our expression, but I will tell you that,
• 38:40
  S1: you know, having spent a lot of time with the
• 38:41
  S1: Anglicans now teaching at Wycliffe Hall, uh, over at Oxford, uh,
• 38:45
  S1: you know, the, the strength of even that repetition, but that,
• 38:49
  S1: that repetition expanded. I actually think there's something to that.
• 38:52
  S1: We're going to continue our conversation with Matt Smallbone. I'd
• 38:55
  S1: love to hear your thoughts in and around the Lord's
• 38:56
  S1: Prayer or your own prayer engagement. Eight, 7754836. Seven five.
• 39:11
  S1: All right, we're back. We got one more segment. What's
• 39:14
  S1: been a fascinating conversation with Matt Smallbone about in and
• 39:17
  S1: around the Lord's Prayer? The title of his book is
• 39:19
  S1: The Prayer Experiment How Praying Like Jesus Realigns everything. If
• 39:22
  S1: you go to live.com, you can click there, get the book,
• 39:25
  S1: you can follow him on Instagram where he's actually posting
• 39:27
  S1: different prayers that kind of expand on some of these
• 39:30
  S1: thoughts as well. We've been taking your calls and there've
• 39:33
  S1: been some really good calls, and I love what we're
• 39:34
  S1: kind of having some of these conversations as well. So
• 39:38
  S1: let's continue our phone calls. I hope I'm saying this right.
• 39:42
  S1: It's althia, I think in Tampa, Florida. But either way,
• 39:45
  S1: you're live on the air, sister. Go right ahead.
• 39:48
  S9: Hi. Good morning. Yes, you are saying it correctly. Good. Um, um, yeah,
• 39:53
  S9: I love the title of the book, but I have
• 39:55
  S9: to concur with pastor that, um, you know, the title
• 39:59
  S9: that he talked about, um, the only prayer that you'll
• 40:02
  S9: ever need I. So, you know, could relate to that. Um,
• 40:07
  S9: the Lord's Prayer helped me, um, personally at a time
• 40:10
  S9: when I too was struggling with prayer. And I, I
• 40:15
  S9: know it's Holy Spirit that just dropped it into my mind.
• 40:18
  S9: You know, look at the Lord's Prayer and, and section
• 40:21
  S9: by section. And it's such a full and powerful prayer.
• 40:25
  S9: It is, I believe, everything that we need. You know,
• 40:28
  S9: because it just talks really, it helps us if we
• 40:31
  S9: really digest it. I feel like it helps us to
• 40:33
  S9: take the focus off ourselves and focus on Jesus, because
• 40:38
  S9: it's telling us that he's all powerful and he's our
• 40:40
  S9: provider and he's our protector, and he rules all things.
• 40:45
  S9: So it's, um, yeah, it's so sad. Um, and I
• 40:49
  S9: grew up, um, growing up saying the Lord's Prayer and
• 40:52
  S9: just saying it as a perfunctory thing. But when you
• 40:56
  S9: start to really think about each section as pastor broke
• 41:01
  S9: it down and spend some time on each section. I
• 41:06
  S9: just think it's so powerful.
• 41:07
  S1: Love it, love it. Good. Super call. If you hold
• 41:09
  S1: on the line, we're going to give you a copy
• 41:10
  S1: of the book The Prayer Experiment how praying like Jesus
• 41:13
  S1: Realigns everything. And you know, she really focused on the
• 41:16
  S1: nature of breaking things down, slowing things down. And my
• 41:20
  S1: part of my problem with the Lord's Prayer, I don't
• 41:21
  S1: have a problem with the Lord's Prayer. Let me rephrase that.
• 41:23
  S1: Part of the way that maybe I grew up misusing
• 41:26
  S1: Lord's Prayer was literally to see how fast I could
• 41:29
  S1: get it done, because I had to do like ten
• 41:31
  S1: Lord's prayers to get my, you know, penance to actually
• 41:35
  S1: slow it down in the richness of this. And your
• 41:37
  S1: book is not I mean, it's a couple hundred pages,
• 41:39
  S1: so you really are slowing us down to sort of
• 41:42
  S1: walk through that. What's the value of that? Why is
• 41:44
  S1: it important to slow down and sort of, I don't
• 41:47
  S1: know the right word, savor or work through or think
• 41:49
  S1: through or pray through the Lord's Prayer.
• 41:51
  S2: It's a genius prayer because it's like it's simple enough
• 41:54
  S2: for a, you know, a toddler to memorize. Really. I mean,
• 41:58
  S2: we do all know this. Those of us who've been
• 41:59
  S2: in church and just kind of the theology in it and,
• 42:03
  S2: and what it does, the theology in it is enough
• 42:05
  S2: to keep theologians enraptured for a lifetime. I think when
• 42:10
  S2: you get inside of this stuff, um, and I've also found, um,
• 42:15
  S2: it's super important to pray the whole thing and in
• 42:17
  S2: order when, when you're doing it. And I can't explain,
• 42:22
  S2: I still don't have words for why it is outside
• 42:25
  S2: of maybe Jesus just understands like the condition of the
• 42:28
  S2: human soul and why it's important to submit our will
• 42:31
  S2: before we, before we ask for things. It just kind
• 42:34
  S2: of works in a really great order. And, you know,
• 42:36
  S2: if I was writing a prayer for everyone to pray,
• 42:38
  S2: like if it was, you know, if I was Jesus, I,
• 42:40
  S2: it wouldn't be intuitive for me to have the forgiveness
• 42:43
  S2: piece in there. But I tell you what, when you're
• 42:45
  S2: praying for something massive that's going on in your life
• 42:47
  S2: and you've just asked for something, and then you spend
• 42:50
  S2: a second going, hey, what, what? Is there something that
• 42:54
  S2: I've contributed to this situation? And it comes out in
• 42:57
  S2: that moment, and then you're forgiving somebody else for how
• 43:00
  S2: they've hurt you in this situation. And then finishing off,
• 43:04
  S2: you know, praying for spiritual protection. It's just it's unbelievably
• 43:08
  S2: thorough and helpful. And I just have have found that
• 43:13
  S2: it all just kind of works perfectly. Like all of the,
• 43:16
  S2: as crazy as some of the Jesus stuff sounds when
• 43:18
  S2: you first read it, when you actually try it on
• 43:21
  S2: and you give it a go, you go, this is
• 43:23
  S2: absolute perfect wisdom right here. So that's, you know, that's
• 43:27
  S2: some of the benefit I've found for it. That's a
• 43:29
  S2: great call out there.
• 43:31
  S1: Yeah, it was a great call. And we only have
• 43:32
  S1: a few minutes left. So we got to make sure.
• 43:34
  S1: And by the way, I think Althea representing the Commonwealth
• 43:37
  S1: on our phone call because it's like our theme today
• 43:39
  S1: is people from the Commonwealth. Um, let's go to, uh,
• 43:43
  S1: LA in Ohio. Lynn, you're live on the air with
• 43:46
  S1: your comment. But keep in mind we only have a
• 43:48
  S1: few minutes left, but jump right in.
• 43:50
  S10: Okay, I'll make this quick. We needed practice in our
• 43:53
  S10: women's Bible study in order to do this phrase by
• 43:56
  S10: phrase Raise and to reshape how we were praying. So
• 44:00
  S10: we used a worksheet and each week I put this,
• 44:03
  S10: the seven sections or the how many? I put the
• 44:06
  S10: sections of the Lord's Prayer, and then the women could
• 44:08
  S10: think ahead of time and write their own thoughts. And
• 44:12
  S10: then when we started to pray, we had something to
• 44:14
  S10: work with. It got us going in a little stronger way.
• 44:18
  S1: I love this, Lynn. I mean, I think I think
• 44:19
  S1: there's something just to be said. You know, we talk
• 44:22
  S1: about meditation and we talk about Christian meditation. It's sometimes
• 44:25
  S1: just slowing down and meditating on God's Word. In a sense,
• 44:30
  S1: you're taking you're meditating on the Lord's Prayer, but you're
• 44:32
  S1: expanding that. I'm putting words in your mouth, but you're
• 44:35
  S1: expanding that in ways that become a prayer pattern. And
• 44:38
  S1: by the way, I should give we should give a
• 44:40
  S1: copy of the book to Lynn. What a great call.
• 44:43
  S1: But the book is the prayer experiment. How praying like
• 44:45
  S1: Jesus realigns everything. So again, praying like Jesus realigns everything.
• 44:50
  S1: That's a big that's a big claim. So talk to
• 44:53
  S1: me a little bit about how slowing down, going through this,
• 44:56
  S1: praying that. How does it realign everything?
• 44:59
  S2: Yeah. Well, I think you realize that you're adopting the
• 45:02
  S2: posture of a small child talking to a a more
• 45:05
  S2: powerful and wise being. You're legitimately submitting your will to
• 45:09
  S2: the father. You're going, hey, I got some very specific
• 45:11
  S2: ideas I'm about to ask for. But before I do,
• 45:15
  S2: for real, I trust you, I love you, I Revere you,
• 45:18
  S2: and would your will be done? Then you ask for
• 45:20
  S2: the thing and you know, then you move into moments
• 45:24
  S2: of forgiveness and and spiritual warfare. And it's just a,
• 45:27
  S2: a beautiful, it's a beautiful pattern for the human soul
• 45:31
  S2: that I have found very healing. And, um, beyond that
• 45:35
  S2: just has provided a bunch of spiritual kind of growth
• 45:40
  S2: along the way because it's kind of led me into,
• 45:42
  S2: you know, regular forgiveness, a practice that I didn't really
• 45:47
  S2: use to do forgiveness that way. I think I'd carry
• 45:49
  S2: around a bucket of unforgiveness. And when it got too
• 45:53
  S2: heavy to bear, I kind of release the easiest one
• 45:56
  S2: just so I could walk a little straighter and but
• 45:59
  S2: this is, you know, when you're forgiving every day. The
• 46:02
  S2: big learning of the experiment for me has been, uh,
• 46:04
  S2: exactly how light life can be with, uh, no forgiveness,
• 46:08
  S2: no unforgiveness.
• 46:09
  S1: Well, one of our callers, uh, Kirk asked, you got
• 46:11
  S1: a workbook coming? You got something else you can do?
• 46:13
  S1: Give us some more details.
• 46:14
  S2: Yeah. We do. We got, um, yeah, working on that
• 46:17
  S2: right now, doing one of those video curriculums. It's coming
• 46:19
  S2: out in, uh, early start of next year, but it'll be,
• 46:23
  S2: it'll be a six week video study.
• 46:26
  S1: Super. Well, good. We're going to thank again for being
• 46:29
  S1: on our program as well. What a fascinating conversation. And
• 46:31
  S1: thanks to you for staying along with us in this
• 46:33
  S1: conversation today. Let me thank my team, Karen Hendren, my
• 46:36
  S1: producer engineer, Merle Saint James Omar is actually today my
• 46:39
  S1: associate producer, Alicia Simon on the phones here at today's program. Again,
• 46:43
  S1: go to Ed Stetzer live.com and remember, Ed Stetzer live
• 46:46
  S1: is the production of the radio Ministry of the Bible Institute.
• 46:49
  S1: Thanks for listening.