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The Knife: Off Record – 106 · The Knife: A True Crime Podcast

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Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised.
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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome. This is the Knife Off Record. I'm
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Speaker 1: Patia Eton and I'm Hannah Smith. Today we're going to
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Speaker 1: talk about a fraud case that turned into a much
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Speaker 1: bigger story than it appeared at face value. But first
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Speaker 1: we're going to discuss a book that Patia and I
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Speaker 1: both read and love and we think you will love
0:37
Speaker 1: as well.
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Speaker 2: We read it and we listened. We did? Which one
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Speaker 2: did we do? Actually? Listened? I listened? Yeah, I didn't read. That?
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Speaker 2: Does that count as reading? I don't know. My mom's
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Speaker 2: a librarian, so I'm going to tell her I read it. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: I think it counts.
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Speaker 1: The book is called There Is No Ethan How Three
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Speaker 1: Women Uncovered America's Biggest Catfish by Anna Akbari, and the
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Speaker 1: basic synops this is that Anna takes us through an
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Speaker 1: experience she had meeting this man named Ethan Schumann on
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Speaker 1: an online dating platform Okaycupid in late twenty ten. I
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Speaker 1: think of this period of time as like there were
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Speaker 1: so many catfishing experiences happening. We didn't really know yet
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Speaker 1: to be aware of this or to be wary of it.
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Speaker 1: And I feel like I've just listened to and heard
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Speaker 1: so many stories of people being conned around this time period.
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Speaker 2: It was such a new moment for online dating. I
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Speaker 2: actually met my husband online in twenty thirteen, and it
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Speaker 2: was still so new that I remember when people would
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Speaker 2: ask us how we met, we would sort of dodge
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Speaker 2: the question because it was almost like embarrassing. I know.
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Speaker 1: I was actually just thinking about that the other day.
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Speaker 1: It feels like not that long ago, but it was
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Speaker 1: so unusual back then, and it was I remember. I
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Speaker 1: remember meeting people who had said we met online, and
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Speaker 1: I was like, Oh, that's kind of cool and weird
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Speaker 1: and interesting.
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Speaker 2: And what's wrong with you? Yeah, because we met online
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Speaker 2: when you couldn't even log into the app on your phone.
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Speaker 2: You were getting on your computer, right, Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And I think this was the same with this story
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Speaker 1: with there is no Ethan, she's logging into the computer,
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Speaker 1: okaycubit around this time.
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Speaker 2: So this book is.
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Speaker 1: Part Anna talking about her personal experience being scammed, and
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Speaker 1: then it's also part investigative. It really feels like a podcast,
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Speaker 1: except it's a book.
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Speaker 2: It's a book, and that means we read it, whether
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Speaker 2: or not we listened or read it and yeah, listening
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Speaker 2: to it and putting yourself back in that place of
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Speaker 2: wanting to meet someone and being really hopeful when you
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Speaker 2: have chemistry, which we all know can exist digitally, but
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Speaker 2: being on the forefront of that and not knowing how
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Speaker 2: to level your own expectations.
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Speaker 1: According Yeah, and when you want something so badly, it's
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Speaker 1: really easy to sort of make excuses. I spent many
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Speaker 1: years on the online dating platforms, and I can tell
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Speaker 1: you it is harrowing at times. I've quite pressing so
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Speaker 1: much worse. I thought you were going to say, gotten
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Speaker 1: so much better. No, it was like, no, it has not.
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Speaker 1: No one's out there saying this is such a great experience.
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Speaker 1: They loved dating on them, but it is the modern way.
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Speaker 1: I loved listening to this book because it felt like
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Speaker 1: I was listening to an extended podcast that I had
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Speaker 1: hours of, and that is a joy. They have an
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Speaker 1: actor do the voice of Ethan, which I thought was good.
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Speaker 1: I thought they did a good job and it was
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Speaker 1: really engaging. And then Anna goes on to talk about
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Speaker 1: how she connects with these other women who are also
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Speaker 1: victims of the same person, and it really pays off.
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Speaker 1: So listen to the very end because unlike some stories
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Speaker 1: where you don't get answers, you do get answers here,
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Speaker 1: which is you know, enticing.
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Speaker 2: These victims get all of the answers and well, I
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Speaker 2: guess you know, all compared to maybe many other victims
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Speaker 2: of catfishing frauds. But the reveal is mind blowing. It
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Speaker 2: truly is someone you would never expect, which, as you're
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Speaker 2: rethinking about the story that you listen to, is like
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Speaker 2: she could never have anticipated the outcome of this. You know,
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Speaker 2: there are red flags and a lot of relationships and
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Speaker 2: maybe some people's minds take it to a worst case scenario.
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Speaker 2: I don't even think anyone could have anticipated where this
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Speaker 2: was going. Yeah, I agree, it's a great listen. We
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Speaker 2: highly recommend it, thrilling all the way through. And I
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Speaker 2: actually have another recommendation, oh, Patia, Okay, coming in with
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Speaker 2: two recommendations. Two recommendations today. This one is the con
4:54
Speaker 2: Caitlin's Baby. Okay, I've not heard of this all right,
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Speaker 2: So this is about a woman named Caitlin. Who is
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Speaker 2: this a podcast? This is a podcast? Okay, this is
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Speaker 2: a podcast the Conkaitlyn's Baby, and it's about a young
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Speaker 2: woman named Caitlin who reaches out to doulas and both
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Speaker 2: in person, and virtually utilizes their services over and over
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Speaker 2: and over again through extreme situations like pregnancy, loss, rape,
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Speaker 2: and medical events like a coma. You know, they revealed
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Speaker 2: pretty early on not everything is as it seems, But
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Speaker 2: the story is just a world I knew nothing about doulas,
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Speaker 2: like this online community of people that you can reach
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Speaker 2: out to for birth support no matter where you're at
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Speaker 2: in your pregnancy. And you know, this is a line
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Speaker 2: of work you get into if you're super passionate about it,
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Speaker 2: and you would never imagine someone taking advantage. So these
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Speaker 2: doulas were having very intimate experiences with someone that they
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Speaker 2: were trying to help who was misleading them in a
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Speaker 2: major way, And it just blew my mind. The extent
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Speaker 2: this person went to to mislead people was so egregious.
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Speaker 2: And you know, there's a reveal at the end of
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Speaker 2: someone very close to her that maybe knew it was
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Speaker 2: happening that I found especially surprising. It's a great listen.
6:22
Speaker 2: The story moves really quickly, and there was a lot
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Speaker 2: I didn't know about that world that I think I
6:28
Speaker 2: have a much better understanding of. Now.
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Speaker 1: Wow, that sounds really great. I'll definitely check that out. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: so you didn't have a doula.
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Speaker 2: I didn't have a doula. No, I didn't know what
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Speaker 2: they were. I just did it the old fashioned way
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Speaker 2: with a lot of drugs. Great. However you choose to
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Speaker 2: do it is great. Yes.
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Speaker 1: I mean we've talked a lot about like medical fraud
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Speaker 1: and stories in that world, but I never heard about
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Speaker 1: someone conning a doula before. So yeah, that's definitely intriguing.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, and you're in a way seeking it's
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Speaker 2: not medical support, Like these people are not doctors, but
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Speaker 2: I think birth is maybe referred to as a routine
7:10
Speaker 2: medical event or a routine health event, and it does
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Speaker 2: surprise me that this sort of in between is there
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Speaker 2: for these moments that are very close to birth.
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Speaker 1: Thanks for the recommendation. I always love a good podcast recommendation,
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Speaker 1: so I will check it out.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Okay, So I have a story to tell you today,
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Speaker 1: and it's kind of in multiple parts. I thought of
7:42
Speaker 1: this story recently because last week we had a great
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Speaker 1: interview with Jennifer Thompson. If you haven't heard that yet,
7:49
Speaker 1: go check it out. It made me think back to
7:52
Speaker 1: this story because a wrongful conviction does play a role,
7:56
Speaker 1: so I wanted to talk to you about it today.
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Speaker 1: This is a story that I heard about months and
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Speaker 1: months and months ago, I don't know, a year ago,
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Speaker 1: and I have been intrigued by it. It kind of
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Speaker 1: falls into that category of I made some calls and
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Speaker 1: wasn't able to find anyone to do an interview for
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Speaker 1: this story.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember when you initially found the story and
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Speaker 2: you told me just a little bit about it. But
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Speaker 2: like you said, you made some calls and we had
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Speaker 2: kind of moved on. So I'm really excited to hear Okay.
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Speaker 2: So the first part of this story takes place in Virginia,
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Speaker 2: and most of the information I'm getting here is from
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Speaker 2: an FBI affidavit, as well as an article from Washington
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Speaker 2: City Paper called King of Ashburn That is a great
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Speaker 2: article written in twenty sixteen. This is a story about
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Speaker 2: a man named Osama El Atari. He grew up in
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Speaker 2: Virginia in the eighties and nineties in a middle class
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Speaker 2: family and then became this notable restaurant owner in Ashbourne, Virginia.
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Speaker 2: By the early two thousands, he was pretty well known
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Speaker 2: amongst his community, and he owned multiple restaurants, including Lucky's,
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Speaker 2: a sports theater and grill. I never heard the term
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Speaker 2: sports theater before, but I think it's just like a
9:11
Speaker 2: sports bar. A sports theater. How did you heard that before?
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Speaker 2: And then two locations of a place called the Original
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Speaker 2: Steakhouse and sports theater also a sports theater? Are they
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Speaker 2: performing the sports?
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Speaker 1: The Original Steakhouse in sports Theater is described as half
9:27
Speaker 1: booth restaurant and half sports bar. I love a booth.
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Speaker 1: I love a booth too. Any restaurant with a booth,
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Speaker 1: I'm in, I'm in. I don't even care what they're serving.
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Speaker 2: No, they're great. They coral toddlers. Oh yeah, that is
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Speaker 2: another great use, huge selling point for me. Okay.
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Speaker 1: It's also noted that his family owned multiple Buffalo wing
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Speaker 1: factory locations, so it seemed like the restaurant business was
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Speaker 1: kind of the family business, and then he got into it,
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Speaker 1: and by all accounts, he was really successful. He was
9:57
Speaker 1: also a very flashy guy. He love a good sports car.
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Speaker 1: Around two thousand and eight he owned two Lamborghinis, two Ferraris,
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Speaker 1: and a Rolls Royce Phantom, which I looked that up
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Speaker 1: because I know nothing about cars. A Rolls Royce Phantom
10:13
Speaker 1: today can be as much as like four hundred to
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Speaker 1: five hundred thousand dollars.
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Speaker 2: So many, many many of my current car, which is
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Speaker 2: easily the nicest I've ever had, and many many more
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Speaker 2: of the pres I had for twelve years before this.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's well over a million dollars in cars what
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Speaker 1: he had. And at this point he owned three restaurants,
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Speaker 1: which seemed to be busy, but you have to kind
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Speaker 1: of wonder, Okay, well, how much money are you really
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Speaker 1: making here? According to the Washington City Paper article, he
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Speaker 1: bought a mansion that had seven bathrooms that was seven
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Speaker 1: five hundred and ninety square feet for four point five
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Speaker 1: million dollars, and then he also bought a football jersey
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Speaker 1: at a charity auction for twenty five thousand dollars. It
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Speaker 1: was the jersey of NFL player Sean Taylor, who actually
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Speaker 1: was murdered in his home in two thousand and seven.
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Speaker 1: So you know, he was definitely spending money. His friends
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Speaker 1: and family said that he spent money in a charitable way.
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Speaker 1: Mostly he bought things for people around him. He sponsored
11:13
Speaker 1: local sports teams. He was seen as a very generous
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Speaker 1: person and was upstanding, this well to do guy in
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Speaker 1: his community. He did get into some trouble with the
11:24
Speaker 1: law when it comes to driving. He got a lot
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Speaker 1: of traffic tickets for driving his cars too fast, for speeding.
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Speaker 2: Well, you have to wonder, you have all of these
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Speaker 2: sports cars, where are you going?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if you have them, you think you
11:35
Speaker 1: would want to drive them?
11:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean mine would have you know, I would
11:40
Speaker 2: be going to the grocery store and back just as
11:44
Speaker 2: fast as you can. Yeah. Yeah.
11:46
Speaker 1: So he did have traffic violations. He did a short
11:48
Speaker 1: sent in jail even for a traffic violation, but other
11:52
Speaker 1: than that, he seemed to be on the straight and narrow.
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Speaker 1: But then he started to take out bank loans. The
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Speaker 1: first one is in December of two thousand and seven,
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Speaker 1: he secured a five million dollar loan from United Bank,
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Speaker 1: and the purpose stated on his loan application was to
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Speaker 1: acquire two more original steakhouse locations in Maryland. He provided
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Speaker 1: two cash value life insurance policies to the bank as
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Speaker 1: collateral for this loan, and each of those was valued
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Speaker 1: at over three million dollars. But what didn't come out
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Speaker 1: till later was that, you know, he would not have
12:26
Speaker 1: been able to secure this loan if it weren't for
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Speaker 1: someone at the bank. The assistant vice president of United
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Speaker 1: Bank saw these life insurance policies and immediately flagged that
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Speaker 1: they were fake. And instead of flagging this at the bank,
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Speaker 1: he met up at a Starbucks with Osama El Atari
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Speaker 1: and essentially said I want in on this, Like, I
12:50
Speaker 1: know you're up to something. Yeah, something is happening here.
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Speaker 1: I don't really think that you're going to use this
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Speaker 1: money for these restaurants, and basically said, I want in
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Speaker 1: on your scheme.
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Speaker 2: Well, and then if you're Osama, what choice do you
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Speaker 2: have but to agree because you're up to something. And
13:06
Speaker 2: now this person that the bank knows that's a great point.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, So this assistant vice president of the bank created
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Speaker 1: a fake accountant, Gordon Leipzig.
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Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm saying that right. Well, it
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Speaker 2: doesn't matter.
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Speaker 1: He's a big person that he created and fixed the
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Speaker 1: life insurance policies to make them look convincing and then
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Speaker 1: was able. Osama was able to get this loan in exchange,
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Speaker 1: she gave him a one hundred and fifty thousand dollars kickback.
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Speaker 1: Classic Yes, and he was able to use these doctored
13:39
Speaker 1: life insurance policies to then go to other banks and
13:43
Speaker 1: get additional loans, so he continued to get loans. He
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Speaker 1: also continued to get loans from a United Bank in
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Speaker 1: a total of seventeen million dollars.
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Speaker 2: And the guy from the Starbucks meetup is in on
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Speaker 2: these other loan acquisitions. I don't know if he is.
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Speaker 1: All I could find was that he was in on
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Speaker 1: that first one and got that kick back. Okay, But
14:02
Speaker 1: at this point then Osama already had the faked documents
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Speaker 1: that were convincing and looked real, so he could use
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Speaker 1: those right to get other loans. And from the investigation,
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Speaker 1: it looks like he started to spend the money pretty
14:14
Speaker 1: immediately on cars as well as the home that he bought,
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Speaker 1: and then it became this like catch up game where
14:21
Speaker 1: he wasn't able to pay back these loans, so then
14:23
Speaker 1: he started to get more loans. And you can sort
14:26
Speaker 1: of get the feeling that the scam can go for
14:29
Speaker 1: a certain amount of time, but there's going to be
14:31
Speaker 1: an end point where he's not able to pay anything back.
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Speaker 2: Right, is he thinking he'll just forever go make fake
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Speaker 2: life insurance policies to get loans?
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Speaker 1: This is the big question I have with every fraud
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Speaker 1: story we do is what is the end goal?
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Speaker 2: It's like, what is your plan? There is no plan.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you live large and you have fun and then
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Speaker 1: at some point it has to stop, right, I want
14:56
Speaker 1: to sleep that well at night. You too, so you know,
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Speaker 1: of course things are going to come to a head.
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Speaker 1: By early two thousand and nine, he'd taken loans out
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Speaker 1: from seven different banks in a total of around seventy
15:09
Speaker 1: million dollars.
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Speaker 2: And okay, I would love to have seventy million dollars,
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Speaker 2: but what are you doing with it?
15:16
Speaker 1: It's you had a large amount of money.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. We were just talking about what tabs we needed
15:21
Speaker 2: to close in our computers, and mine is always old Navy. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: I mean you could get a lot of shirts, yeah,
15:26
Speaker 1: for seventy million. So he's got a lot of money.
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Speaker 1: The banks are catching on and they're demanding their money back.
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Speaker 1: And in May of two thousand and nine, United Bank
15:36
Speaker 1: realizes that the life insurance documents were faked, and authorities
15:41
Speaker 1: show up to Asama's house and he is not there.
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Speaker 1: He has fled. They did find eighteen big screen televisions. Okay,
15:49
Speaker 1: I do want to come back to the eighteen televisions.
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Speaker 1: I have so many questions. But is United Bank?
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Speaker 2: Remind me the first bank he secured the loan from, Yes,
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Speaker 2: and that is the bank where we know someone else
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Speaker 2: at the bank knew about it.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, the assistant vice president. I don't know if he
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Speaker 1: was still at the bank. Okay at that time. He
16:09
Speaker 1: will come back into this later.
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Speaker 2: Eighteen big screen televisions, and I don't quite recall, but
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Speaker 2: I'm guessing they were those enormous box televisions at that time.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, because two thousand and nine they're not like as
16:25
Speaker 1: thin as they are now.
16:26
Speaker 2: They're not the frame TVs. No. Now, actually I don't
16:29
Speaker 2: even think we call them big screens anymore. Right, Wow,
16:32
Speaker 2: So okay, eighteen of them.
16:33
Speaker 1: So then he goes on the run, and there's eight
16:36
Speaker 1: months where he's unaccounted for. He's on the run, and
16:38
Speaker 1: no one knows exactly where he went. At one point,
16:42
Speaker 1: investigators in Brazil supposedly found a death certificate for him
16:47
Speaker 1: and a passport, but when it was looked into further,
16:51
Speaker 1: it was clear that that wasn't real and he'd actually
16:54
Speaker 1: bribed someone in Brazil to try to fake his death.
16:57
Speaker 1: In June of two thousand and nine, he was charged
16:59
Speaker 1: in Centia with bank fraud. So they still didn't know
17:02
Speaker 1: where he was, but it was clear he'd done this.
17:05
Speaker 1: He's charged, and then in January of twenty ten, he
17:10
Speaker 1: was found in Texas at a Ferrari dealership.
17:14
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, a true like car shopping compulsion. Yeah,
17:20
Speaker 2: I mean he loved cars. I just wonder wouldn't he
17:24
Speaker 2: want to be a little more incognito.
17:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. It's strange, but that's where he
17:30
Speaker 1: was found. It also makes you wonder about the money,
17:33
Speaker 1: you know, like is there money?
17:35
Speaker 2: Where did he put it? Like is he physically carrying
17:37
Speaker 2: around all that cash? Surely not? Surely not. But how's
17:41
Speaker 2: he Yeah, how's he buying the car?
17:42
Speaker 1: So in April of twenty ten, he pled guilty to
17:45
Speaker 1: three counts of bank fraud and one count of money laundering,
17:48
Speaker 1: and he was sentenced to twelve years in prison, followed
17:51
Speaker 1: by five years of supervised release, and was sent to
17:55
Speaker 1: serve time at the Arlington County Jail. So this brings
18:00
Speaker 1: us to the second part of the story. Almost as
18:10
Speaker 1: soon as he's arrested, he starts trying to strike deals.
18:14
Speaker 1: He immediately turns in the United Bank assistant vice president.
18:17
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, who had helped him doctor the life
18:20
Speaker 1: insurance policies.
18:21
Speaker 2: Okay, he's like, if I'm going now and you're going
18:23
Speaker 2: down with me.
18:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, And once he's serving time, he seems to be
18:29
Speaker 1: on alert for any like jailhouse confessions that he can hear.
18:34
Speaker 1: He tells authorities at one point that he overheard this
18:36
Speaker 1: guy claiming to be involved in a terrorist smuggling operation.
18:41
Speaker 1: He provides details to them that one didn't end up
18:45
Speaker 1: leading to an arrest, but it sets the scene that
18:48
Speaker 1: he is very clearly someone who has you know, notified
18:52
Speaker 1: law enforcement authorities that he is available.
18:55
Speaker 2: Oh, I see. So he's listening, Like, what can I
18:59
Speaker 2: give them an change for maybe some leniency? Yeah, So
19:03
Speaker 2: he's on the lookout. He's on the lookout.
19:05
Speaker 1: He's like, if I can basically go undercover, I'm a
19:08
Speaker 1: prisoner here, but if there's anyone you're trying to get
19:10
Speaker 1: information out of, I'm your guy, Like, I'll do whatever.
19:13
Speaker 1: I'll wear a wire if it can get me out
19:15
Speaker 1: of prison sooner. I don't know that I would think
19:18
Speaker 1: to do this, but if I did, I would try.
19:21
Speaker 1: You would try. I would do anything. Yeah, you know
19:23
Speaker 1: it could be a dangerous thing to do. But uh,
19:26
Speaker 1: this is what he does, and pretty soon he gets
19:28
Speaker 1: the chance to do it. He ends up in a
19:31
Speaker 1: cell next to George Avila Torres, and people might recognize
19:37
Speaker 1: that name because he is now considered to be a
19:39
Speaker 1: serial killer. I want to note that his name is
19:43
Speaker 1: spelled Jorge. I looked this up because people kept calling
19:47
Speaker 1: him George, and he said that he goes by both
19:51
Speaker 1: Jorge and George. At one point an officer asked him
19:55
Speaker 1: which he preferred, and he said George. It sounds like
19:58
Speaker 1: he went by Jorge with his family, So I'm going
20:01
Speaker 1: to call him George. But that is the situation with
20:03
Speaker 1: his name.
20:04
Speaker 2: Okay.
20:05
Speaker 1: So he is also in Arlington County jail awaiting trial.
20:12
Speaker 1: In twenty ten, George A. Villa Torres was arrested and
20:15
Speaker 1: charged with crimes committed in Arlington. The first one on
20:19
Speaker 1: February tenth, twenty ten, he attempted to abduct and assault
20:23
Speaker 1: a twenty six year old woman who is unnamed in
20:27
Speaker 1: court documents. She was walking to her boyfriend's house. He
20:31
Speaker 1: came up behind her, grabbed her jacket and kind of
20:36
Speaker 1: flashed that he was holding a gun. They had a
20:40
Speaker 1: struggle and she just said, you know, do you want
20:44
Speaker 1: my money? Take my purse, but he kept pulling her
20:48
Speaker 1: toward a Tan Dodge Durango. She was actually able to
20:53
Speaker 1: sort of shove her purse toward him and leave it
20:56
Speaker 1: and run away and escape from him. She had a
21:00
Speaker 1: friend who lived a couple houses down, and so she
21:03
Speaker 1: just ran into her friend's house. They immediately called the
21:06
Speaker 1: police and she made a report. She reported what he
21:09
Speaker 1: looked like. She had clocked his vehicle as well. That
21:13
Speaker 1: is terrifying, so scary. So then you know, the police
21:18
Speaker 1: started to search. They didn't find anyone immediately, and they
21:21
Speaker 1: never found her purse. Two weeks later, close by, two
21:26
Speaker 1: female graduate students who are also unnamed in the court
21:29
Speaker 1: documents were walking to one of their homes when he
21:33
Speaker 1: emerged from behind a parked car, and it was the
21:36
Speaker 1: same thing kind of. He immediately flashed that he had
21:39
Speaker 1: a gun. He demanded their wallets. They said they didn't
21:42
Speaker 1: have them on them, so he forced them to go
21:45
Speaker 1: into the house. He tied them up. One of them
21:49
Speaker 1: was able to kind of get loose and make a
21:51
Speaker 1: call to nine one one with her cell phone. And
21:54
Speaker 1: this is twenty ten again, so like the cell phone
21:56
Speaker 1: situation is different than we have now. He then got
22:00
Speaker 1: her phone, threw it against the wall and smashed it,
22:03
Speaker 1: and then took one of these women outside into his vehicle,
22:09
Speaker 1: the same Tan Dodge Durango, and drove her to a
22:13
Speaker 1: remote area. He sexually assaulted her, then tied a scarf
22:17
Speaker 1: around her neck and attempted to kill her. She lost consciousness,
22:22
Speaker 1: but then woke up outside in the snow and was alive,
22:26
Speaker 1: and a passerby stopped and found her. She immediately made
22:31
Speaker 1: a police report, and based on her description of him
22:34
Speaker 1: as well as the vehicle, law enforcement pretty quickly realized
22:38
Speaker 1: this was the same person who had just tried to
22:41
Speaker 1: attack a woman two weeks prior. Arlington County Police had
22:45
Speaker 1: also made a note that a few days before they
22:48
Speaker 1: had observed this guy in the same type of vehicle
22:51
Speaker 1: out like stalking women. He looked really suspicious and it
22:57
Speaker 1: was Georgia Villa Torres. They were able to locate him
23:01
Speaker 1: pretty quickly and arrested him on February twenty seventh, twenty ten,
23:05
Speaker 1: at Joint Base Meyer Henderson Hall, which is a residence
23:09
Speaker 1: hall on a military base. He was a marine at
23:13
Speaker 1: the time. They searched his vehicle and found the school
23:16
Speaker 1: id of the woman that he attempted to murder, and
23:20
Speaker 1: when they searched his barracks they found a gun and
23:23
Speaker 1: incriminating content on his computer that was sexually violent.
23:28
Speaker 2: Wow. So they found him based on the witness identification
23:32
Speaker 2: of him and of his car. Yes, Yeah, they didn't
23:35
Speaker 2: have a name or anything, but they must have had.
23:38
Speaker 2: Maybe they're just searching like a Tan what was it,
23:40
Speaker 2: a Bronco Dodge Durango, A Dodge Durango, a Tan Dodge Durango,
23:45
Speaker 2: And that's how they found him. Yeah.
23:47
Speaker 1: How old was he? He was in his early twenties.
23:50
Speaker 1: I think he was twenty one at the time.
23:52
Speaker 2: Wow.
23:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, they did take DNA samples from him. He was
23:57
Speaker 1: charged and was awaiting trial at the time. When he
24:02
Speaker 1: encounters Osama El Atari in prison, they are in cells
24:07
Speaker 1: next to each other. And it's unclear to me exactly
24:12
Speaker 1: why they wanted him to wear a wire. I believe
24:17
Speaker 1: that investigators wondered if he was connected to a third murder,
24:23
Speaker 1: and they also just wanted more evidence to be able to,
24:27
Speaker 1: you know, get a clean conviction. So Osama El Atari agreed.
24:31
Speaker 1: He told investigators he thought that this guy was a monster.
24:35
Speaker 1: He had already encountered him and had a really low
24:37
Speaker 1: opinion of him. But he was like, great, I'll do it.
24:40
Speaker 1: I'll wear a wire and I'll befriend this guy.
24:43
Speaker 2: Osama must be really good at keeping his school.
24:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Well, the guy that was able to convince
24:51
Speaker 1: banks to give him seventy million dollars of course kind
24:54
Speaker 1: of be like a smooth talker. Yeah, you know, yeah,
24:57
Speaker 1: gets people to trust him.
24:58
Speaker 2: Wow. You also are like, if anyone finds out that
25:02
Speaker 2: I'm wearing a wire, I will never live it down here.
25:06
Speaker 1: This guy is clearly like a violent, you know, dangerous
25:09
Speaker 1: person or has done violent and dangerous things. So yeah,
25:12
Speaker 1: you have to assume it would be very nerve wracking
25:15
Speaker 1: to wear a wire and then try to get him
25:17
Speaker 1: to confess.
25:18
Speaker 2: Well, and because Osama had years left on his sentence,
25:22
Speaker 2: so it's not like, well, I'm going to be out
25:23
Speaker 2: of here in six months anyway if I get caught. Yes, exactly.
25:28
Speaker 1: So he befriended George Avilatories and he started by flattering him,
25:36
Speaker 1: just telling him that he was so impressed with his
25:38
Speaker 1: crimes and this worked.
25:41
Speaker 2: Wow.
25:42
Speaker 1: You know, he was like, you're such a genius if
25:44
Speaker 1: you wrote a book about everything you did. I would
25:46
Speaker 1: read it, oh my gosh, and it works. So then
25:50
Speaker 1: George of Vilatoris starts saying, well, they don't even know
25:52
Speaker 1: half of it, and I've done so much more. He
25:56
Speaker 1: admits that he's not just a rapist and a kidnapper,
25:59
Speaker 1: but he's also a murderer, and he's proud of this.
26:02
Speaker 2: Oh so proud. He's like gloating, Yeah, that has to
26:04
Speaker 2: be so hard for someone to listen to. Yeah, totally
26:09
Speaker 2: screwed up.
26:09
Speaker 1: And in order to get him to keep talking, he's
26:12
Speaker 1: having to be like, that's so cool, Like it's amazing
26:15
Speaker 1: that you got away with it. Elatari ends up getting
26:18
Speaker 1: a Villatorre's saying on tape that he killed Navy petty
26:23
Speaker 1: Officer Amanda Snell in two thousand and nine. She was
26:26
Speaker 1: twenty years old and also stationed at Joint Base Meyer
26:30
Speaker 1: Henderson Hall, just down the dorm hall from him.
26:34
Speaker 2: And at this point in Amanda's case, was she disappeared
26:38
Speaker 2: or did they know that she had been a victim
26:41
Speaker 2: of fel player so her murder was unsolved, but they
26:45
Speaker 2: knew that she had been murdered. Yes, she was.
26:47
Speaker 1: Found dead in her room. Her cause of death after
26:51
Speaker 1: an autopsy was determined to be asphyxiation, and it was
26:55
Speaker 1: just clear based on the scene, and investigators didn't have questions.
26:58
Speaker 1: They knew that there was foul play involved. There had
27:02
Speaker 1: actually been an investigation on the military base at the time,
27:06
Speaker 1: and tons of people were questioned, including George of Villa Tooris,
27:10
Speaker 1: and he agreed to the questioning at the time. He
27:14
Speaker 1: allowed his room to be searched. He even provided a
27:16
Speaker 1: DNA sample. Be interesting to know if he was polygraphed. Yeah,
27:20
Speaker 1: but at the time, for whatever reason, I wasn't able
27:23
Speaker 1: to find out. They weren't able to connect him to it.
27:26
Speaker 1: But then you know, once he was arrested for these
27:30
Speaker 1: other violent and sexually violent crimes, they started to look
27:34
Speaker 1: at him again, especially because he was, you know, in
27:38
Speaker 1: such close proximity to where Amanda lived. Right, he confessed
27:42
Speaker 1: on tape. Now that gets a little tricky because with
27:46
Speaker 1: jailhouse confessions you don't always know if they're true. You know,
27:50
Speaker 1: was he the kind of guy who would just brag
27:52
Speaker 1: about something.
27:53
Speaker 2: When you say he confessed on tape, you're talking about
27:55
Speaker 2: to Osama. Yes, right, No, one confessed during their investigation,
28:00
Speaker 2: much of questioning. So he denied it when he was
28:03
Speaker 2: questioned initially in the initial investigation and was not charged
28:10
Speaker 2: or arrested or anything. But once he was in prison
28:14
Speaker 2: for the crimes he committed in Arlington, the attack and
28:19
Speaker 2: kidnapp being an attempted murder, they started to look at
28:22
Speaker 2: him again because he literally like lived down the hall
28:25
Speaker 2: from Amanda. I believe that this is why one of
28:28
Speaker 2: the things that they wanted osama El Atari to ask
28:31
Speaker 2: him about, and he did, and he admitted to it.
28:36
Speaker 2: He admitted that he did kill Amanda snow. Jailhouse confessions, though,
28:40
Speaker 2: can be a little tricky, because how do you know
28:43
Speaker 2: if someone is telling the truth. Is this the kind
28:46
Speaker 2: of guy that would just brag about something that he
28:49
Speaker 2: didn't actually do to seem cool so screwed up? It
28:53
Speaker 2: seem intimidating. Yeah, you know, you're surrounded by people with
28:58
Speaker 2: a criminal history.
29:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be murky. Some of his details changed
29:05
Speaker 1: when he talked about it, but it was still close
29:08
Speaker 1: enough that it seemed very likely that he did kill her.
29:13
Speaker 1: He also confessed to the attacks in Arlington as well,
29:16
Speaker 1: so that was really helpful for investigators and prosecutors. And
29:21
Speaker 1: we'll get to his trial because he's a waiting trial.
29:24
Speaker 1: He hasn't yet been sentenced. Wow, he hasn't been convicted
29:28
Speaker 1: of any of it yet, and he's just a waiting
29:31
Speaker 1: trial for the Arlington attacks where he attempted to abduct
29:35
Speaker 1: that first woman and then attacked those other two women
29:38
Speaker 1: and one of them kidnapped, sexually assaulted, and attempted to
29:42
Speaker 1: kill her.
29:42
Speaker 2: It's terrible.
29:43
Speaker 1: So he's waiting trial for all of that. And then
29:45
Speaker 1: while he's in prison, he also admits to Osama el
29:48
Speaker 1: Atari that he also murdered Amanda Snell the year before.
29:53
Speaker 2: But that's not all.
29:55
Speaker 1: He also tells Osama el Atari that he had commit
30:00
Speaker 1: another crime years before.
30:03
Speaker 2: Oh so, Osama was told by the people who were
30:06
Speaker 2: working with him with the wire to get maybe confessions,
30:09
Speaker 2: told him to ask about Amanda, but not this next
30:13
Speaker 2: case that ends up coming up. I couldn't get that
30:16
Speaker 2: information exactly, but that's my guess from what I've read,
30:21
Speaker 2: is that they wanted him to get a more detailed
30:23
Speaker 2: confession about the Arlington crimes that he had been charged with.
30:27
Speaker 2: Then they also had suspicions that he might be involved
30:30
Speaker 2: in Amanda Snow's murder. And I'm not sure if this
30:34
Speaker 2: other crime was on their radar at the time or not,
30:37
Speaker 2: because it seems like multiple things kind of happened at once. Okay,
30:41
Speaker 2: But George essentially tells Osama el Atari that he committed
30:48
Speaker 2: a double homicide back in two thousand and five when
30:51
Speaker 2: he was sixteen years old. That's unimaginable, yeah, at any age,
30:57
Speaker 2: but at sixteen, it's really horrible.
31:01
Speaker 1: He was living in Zion, Illinois at the time, and
31:06
Speaker 1: he admitted to murdering Laara Hobbs and Crystal Tobias, who
31:11
Speaker 1: were eight and nine years old. It's just horrible. It's
31:14
Speaker 1: so sad. They were brutally stabbed. And what happened with
31:19
Speaker 1: that case back in two thousand and five, when the
31:22
Speaker 1: girls didn't come home, there was a search party sent
31:25
Speaker 1: out and Laura's father, Jerry Hobbs, ended up finding their
31:30
Speaker 1: remains at a park. It was gruesome and horrible, and
31:36
Speaker 1: very quickly he became a suspect and was questioned by police.
31:42
Speaker 1: He had a criminal record and had recently gotten out
31:45
Speaker 1: of prison. There was DNA at the crime scene. Ultimately,
31:49
Speaker 1: when they tested it, it did not match Jerry Hobbes.
31:53
Speaker 1: But I also read somewhere that there was some of
31:55
Speaker 1: his DNA on Laura, his daughter, which is kind of like, yeah,
31:59
Speaker 1: because they were living in the same house, you know,
32:01
Speaker 1: that could easily be possible. But Jerry Hobbs confessed to
32:07
Speaker 1: the crime. So when George's in prison telling Osama El
32:11
Speaker 1: Atari that he committed these crimes, he said, I was like, damn,
32:17
Speaker 1: I'm clean, I'm good. When he heard that Jerry Hobbs
32:21
Speaker 1: had confessed to the crime and he was bragging that
32:24
Speaker 1: he had gotten away with it. He was able to
32:27
Speaker 1: recount these murders in excruciating detail, and his story corresponded
32:32
Speaker 1: with the autopsies of the girls, so it was pretty
32:35
Speaker 1: clear that he did do this. Around this same time,
32:41
Speaker 1: the DNA from that crime scene was tested and it
32:45
Speaker 1: was matched to George of Vila Torrez.
32:48
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, and the father of Lara Hobbes. Jerry Hobbs,
32:54
Speaker 2: he had been charged or sentenced.
32:57
Speaker 1: While he'd been charged and he was awaiting trial, but
33:02
Speaker 1: he had been in prison for five years.
33:04
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Yeah, he had been in jail five
33:08
Speaker 2: years well, mourning the loss of his daughter and her
33:13
Speaker 2: friend and knowing he didn't do this, and that means
33:16
Speaker 2: that someone who did isn't doing their own time for it.
33:21
Speaker 1: Well, the guy who did Georgia vi Latoris went on
33:26
Speaker 1: to kill Amanda Snow and then to attack three more women.
33:30
Speaker 1: Oh right, because he was only sixteen, we're going back
33:33
Speaker 1: into yeah, yeah, so he wasn't caught like back in
33:36
Speaker 1: two thousand and five, and then he went on to
33:38
Speaker 1: do maybe even more we don't know of. I mean,
33:40
Speaker 1: it's devastating, devastating. So Jerry Hobbs eventually was exonerated, according
33:48
Speaker 1: to the Innocence Project. When he was released, he was
33:51
Speaker 1: told by officers that they were releasing him because they
33:55
Speaker 1: couldn't prove his guilt with that reasonable doubt. People were
33:59
Speaker 1: really convinced that he had done this. He was dubbed
34:02
Speaker 1: Monster Hobbs by media outlets, and everyone just really thought
34:07
Speaker 1: that he did it, and he did it.
34:09
Speaker 2: He did sign a.
34:10
Speaker 1: Confession back in two thousand and five, but when you
34:12
Speaker 1: look at those circumstances in which he signed it, he
34:15
Speaker 1: had been out searching for his daughter for a long time.
34:18
Speaker 1: He was incredibly stressed, he hadn't been sleeping. Then was
34:22
Speaker 1: immediately implicated by law enforcement. They brought him in for
34:26
Speaker 1: questioning and he was held for over twenty four hours
34:29
Speaker 1: and Hobbes described that time as grueling interrogation, at the
34:33
Speaker 1: end of which he signed a coerced confession, which he
34:37
Speaker 1: later recanted. And you know, at the time, law enforcement
34:41
Speaker 1: thought he was guilty for a variety of reasons. They
34:44
Speaker 1: said it was suspicious that he found the body of
34:47
Speaker 1: the girls, like how did he know where to look? Also,
34:49
Speaker 1: he had a criminal record. He had drug and domestic
34:52
Speaker 1: violence charges, and at one point, you know, when he
34:56
Speaker 1: lived back in Texas, he got into an argument with
35:00
Speaker 1: someone and apparently chased them around a trailer park with
35:04
Speaker 1: a chainsaw.
35:05
Speaker 2: Wow, nobody should do that. Yeah.
35:07
Speaker 1: So it's not like anyone is saying, oh, this great
35:10
Speaker 1: guy over here. But it reminds me of something that
35:13
Speaker 1: Jennifer Thompson said when she said it doesn't help anyone
35:17
Speaker 1: when the wrong person goes to prison for a crime. Yep,
35:21
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you think that they were a
35:23
Speaker 1: bad guy. You could look at Garry Hobbes and say
35:26
Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff that he's done is bad,
35:28
Speaker 1: but he didn't murder his daughter or Crystal, And he
35:31
Speaker 1: had just recently gotten out of prison and joined his
35:34
Speaker 1: family in Zion, Illinois before all of this happened. So
35:38
Speaker 1: you know, he was implicated and arrested and charged, but
35:41
Speaker 1: he was still in prison awaiting trial. And one of
35:44
Speaker 1: the things that is pretty wild is that within i believe,
35:46
Speaker 1: the first year of him being in prison, the DNA
35:49
Speaker 1: that was collected from the crime scene was run against
35:52
Speaker 1: his DNA and it wasn't a match.
35:55
Speaker 2: So there's two DNA samples on Laura Hobbs. One is
35:59
Speaker 2: her father, Jaredry Hobbs, another is an unknown meal but
36:02
Speaker 2: on her friend. I'd be curious to know was Jerry's
36:06
Speaker 2: DNA also on her friend somehow, because it seems like
36:09
Speaker 2: if they found two samples in one sample, regardless of
36:12
Speaker 2: if they had a match, yet was on both, why
36:15
Speaker 2: are you not pressing harder on your own theory.
36:18
Speaker 1: Because they already had a theory, right, So, yes, there
36:22
Speaker 1: was this other DNA sample that was on both of
36:26
Speaker 1: the girl's bodies that was an unknown person. As part
36:30
Speaker 1: of the signed confession that was given to Jerry Hobbs
36:33
Speaker 1: to sign. Their theory was that he was mad at
36:36
Speaker 1: his daughter for being outside because she was grounded, so
36:39
Speaker 1: he came across them in the park and went into
36:43
Speaker 1: a rage and started attacking his daughter, and that Crystal,
36:47
Speaker 1: who was nine, had a knife on her that she
36:49
Speaker 1: pulled out to protect them, and that was the knife
36:52
Speaker 1: he used to kill them. I mean, it doesn't make
36:54
Speaker 1: any sense. And also the knife was never found.
36:57
Speaker 2: Yeah. Did you find anything about Crystal's parents and if
37:00
Speaker 2: they accepted Jerry as you know, they believed he had
37:05
Speaker 2: done this. I'm not sure. This is a long time ago.
37:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you have to imagine that when it came
37:12
Speaker 1: out that the wrong person had been arrested, that that
37:15
Speaker 1: was devastating for them. I'm sure you know. It's just
37:18
Speaker 1: it's not good for anyone when that happens.
37:20
Speaker 2: And you're leaning on law enforcement to find the person
37:24
Speaker 2: that committed these murders and to question them would be
37:28
Speaker 2: really hard. It would put you in a difficult position,
37:31
Speaker 2: maybe strain your relationship at a time when you want
37:33
Speaker 2: to be communicated with.
37:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, in twenty ten, And this is why I'm not
37:39
Speaker 1: sure the exact timeline of events, because it's in twenty
37:41
Speaker 1: ten when Osama El Atari wears a wire in prison
37:45
Speaker 1: and gets this confession from George Avila Torres. It's also
37:50
Speaker 1: in twenty ten when Jerry Hobbs's lawyers finally secure a
37:54
Speaker 1: go ahead to run that DNA through a national database
38:00
Speaker 1: hadn't happened yet. That has to make you a question
38:02
Speaker 1: as well, like how much did they really want to
38:04
Speaker 1: solve this?
38:05
Speaker 2: Right? If you have the ability to do that, don't
38:08
Speaker 2: you want to know? Also, even if you're totally convinced
38:11
Speaker 2: that Jerry Hobbs was there, he did it, if there's
38:15
Speaker 2: male DNA on both of these girls, was someone with him?
38:20
Speaker 1: And don't you want to know? Doesn't that matter to you? Yeah,
38:23
Speaker 1: you would think that, right. So they finally run it
38:26
Speaker 1: and it is a match with George of Villatores. You know,
38:29
Speaker 1: remember back when there was an investigation into Amanda Snell's murder,
38:33
Speaker 1: he had agreed to give a DNA sample, so his
38:36
Speaker 1: DNA again was taken when he was arrested for the
38:39
Speaker 1: Arlington crimes, so it was in the system at that time.
38:42
Speaker 1: It was a match. In twenty ten, Jerry Hobbs was
38:45
Speaker 1: exonerated and eventually received a seven point seventy five million
38:49
Speaker 1: dollar settlement.
38:50
Speaker 2: You know, seven point seventy five million dollars, that's so
38:54
Speaker 2: much money. But when you think about the trauma of
38:58
Speaker 2: what this person went through to lou their daughter and
39:01
Speaker 2: her friend in the most brutal way, and then to
39:04
Speaker 2: be targeted by law enforcement wrongly having been in custody
39:10
Speaker 2: for this, and the court of public opinion can be
39:14
Speaker 2: extremely rough.
39:16
Speaker 1: Especially since he had a criminal record. I don't know,
39:19
Speaker 1: sometimes I feel like there's just not as much sympathy
39:21
Speaker 1: for people. It doesn't matter. He still was imprisoned for
39:25
Speaker 1: five years for something he didn't do and blamed for
39:29
Speaker 1: his own daughter's murder. It's horrible, Yeah, I mean, regardless
39:32
Speaker 1: of someone's past, that's an incredible loss. So as far
39:36
Speaker 1: as Georgia Vilatores, in October of twenty ten, he was
39:39
Speaker 1: found guilty of rape and kidnapping charges and sentenced to
39:42
Speaker 1: five life sentences without parole plus one hundred and sixty
39:46
Speaker 1: eight years, and that was just for the Arlington crimes.
39:50
Speaker 1: In twenty eleven, he was charged by federal authorities with
39:54
Speaker 1: the death of Amanda Snell, and in twenty fourteen, a
39:58
Speaker 1: federal jury, back by the jailhouse confession and Osama El
40:03
Speaker 1: Atari's testimony and the DNA evidence, sentenced him to death
40:08
Speaker 1: for the Snell murder, making him the first person since
40:12
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven to receive such a verdict. But
40:15
Speaker 1: actually just last year his descendences was commuted, so he's
40:19
Speaker 1: no longer on death row, but he will serve the
40:21
Speaker 1: rest of his life in prison. And then in twenty eighteen,
40:25
Speaker 1: he faced trial for the murders of Laura Hobbs and
40:28
Speaker 1: Crystal Tobias, the girls in Illinois, and he pled guilty.
40:32
Speaker 1: You know, it seemed like he pled guilty instead of
40:34
Speaker 1: going to trial. It was very clear that he did it,
40:37
Speaker 1: and in exchanged for his plea, he was given one
40:40
Speaker 1: hundred years imprisonment and he was able to transfer out
40:43
Speaker 1: of a prison, which he didn't like being And at
40:46
Speaker 1: the time, I think one of the reasons they did
40:48
Speaker 1: this is that osama El Atari's testimony was really helpful
40:52
Speaker 1: in getting a conviction for him with Amanda Snell's murder,
40:56
Speaker 1: and it would have been really helpful with the double
40:58
Speaker 1: murder of Laura Hobbs and christ Tobias if that had
41:01
Speaker 1: gone to trial, but unfortunately osama El Atari was no
41:04
Speaker 1: longer alive at that point. He bled guilty and he
41:08
Speaker 1: was sentenced for that as well. So he's been convicted
41:11
Speaker 1: on all of those charges. And you know, at that
41:14
Speaker 1: sentence scene hearing the justice told him, you're a serial
41:19
Speaker 1: killer and We don't know if there are other crimes
41:22
Speaker 1: that are connected to him or not, but he will
41:24
Speaker 1: spend the rest of his life in prison.
41:27
Speaker 2: It has to be such a balance for the prosecutors
41:31
Speaker 2: who are working on a case like this one, because
41:36
Speaker 2: once you sentence someone to one hundred years, I mean,
41:40
Speaker 2: a hundred year sentence is like even that's a small
41:42
Speaker 2: price to pay still for what he has done. But
41:44
Speaker 2: you also are then losing your leverage to find out
41:47
Speaker 2: about others and maybe close more cases that are out
41:52
Speaker 2: there that possibly he was involved with, and that has
41:55
Speaker 2: to be a difficult thing to reconcile.
41:59
Speaker 1: Well, couldn't he, in theory still be charged.
42:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I would think he'd be way less inclined
42:03
Speaker 2: to give them any information. But I guess with the
42:06
Speaker 2: you know, technology and advancements with DNA, maybe they don't
42:10
Speaker 2: even need it.
42:10
Speaker 1: You're right, he would have no incentive because he's never
42:13
Speaker 1: going to get.
42:13
Speaker 2: Out of here. He's never going to get out of prison,
42:15
Speaker 2: and he shouldn't exactly. Yeah, so Osama had passed away
42:19
Speaker 2: at this point, but after Osama brought them these confessions
42:22
Speaker 2: from Georgia Villa Torres, do we know was part of that.
42:26
Speaker 1: Agreement and then you're getting me to a new location.
42:30
Speaker 1: I'm not one hundred percent sure about that. But his
42:33
Speaker 1: prison sentence was cut in half basically, so he was
42:37
Speaker 1: released from prison in twenty fourteen, and he served less
42:40
Speaker 1: than half of his sentence, so he was out by
42:42
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen.
42:44
Speaker 2: It's so mindflowing that you could have someone like Georgia
42:47
Speaker 2: Villa Torres who's committed these heinous murders and attempted murders
42:52
Speaker 2: in the same place as someone who's committing financial fraud,
42:56
Speaker 2: because both are illegal, but they're very different.
42:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think it was maybe because they were
43:02
Speaker 1: in a jail. I don't know that would have been
43:04
Speaker 1: their long term holding places. They were both happened to
43:08
Speaker 1: be in this jail at the same time, but yeah,
43:10
Speaker 1: I mean it is wild. So to wrap up Osama
43:14
Speaker 1: al Atari's story, he got out of prison in twenty fourteen,
43:17
Speaker 1: and the majority of the money that he borrowed has
43:22
Speaker 1: never been recovered. They recovered a couple of million, but
43:26
Speaker 1: they were like, where's the rest of the money? So
43:29
Speaker 1: two years later, in February of twenty sixteen, his family
43:34
Speaker 1: reported him missing to authorities and there was a search.
43:39
Speaker 1: They ended up finding his body in his Chevy truck
43:42
Speaker 1: in a rundown industrial area of Capital Heights, Maryland. He
43:47
Speaker 1: had been shot, and they were pretty sure that he
43:50
Speaker 1: had been murdered because his rolex was missing. He was
43:54
Speaker 1: thirty seven years old. His family said that after he
43:58
Speaker 1: was released from prison, he had been operating a construction
44:01
Speaker 1: materials business, and they also said it would be very
44:04
Speaker 1: strange that he wouldn't be wearing his rolex, so that
44:07
Speaker 1: was suspicious. The Prince George County Police Department interviewed multiple
44:12
Speaker 1: people who had been in contact with him recently, and
44:16
Speaker 1: one of them was a man named Donald Clay. It
44:19
Speaker 1: came out that this guy, who they weren't even sure
44:22
Speaker 1: how he was connected to Osama el Atari, but they
44:25
Speaker 1: knew that he knew him, and it seems like Donald
44:28
Speaker 1: Clay had become convinced that Osama had stashed millions of
44:32
Speaker 1: dollars in an offshore account and then had concocted this
44:36
Speaker 1: plan to get him to give him the money. So
44:40
Speaker 1: Donald Clay created his own offshore bank account then lured
44:44
Speaker 1: Osama Eltari to this empty industrial area of Capitol Heights, Maryland.
44:50
Speaker 1: On February eleventh, twenty sixteen, where he was waiting with
44:55
Speaker 1: two armed men, and they basically kidnapped osama El Atari,
45:00
Speaker 1: took him into an abandoned house and attempted to coerce
45:04
Speaker 1: him into transferring the money. The police aren't really sure,
45:07
Speaker 1: like maybe he didn't have money, maybe he did and
45:10
Speaker 1: he refused to transfer it. But somewhere along the way
45:14
Speaker 1: the plan went awry and they ended up killing him.
45:18
Speaker 1: So all three men were arrested and charged. I don't
45:22
Speaker 1: know if they know for sure, but they're pretty sure
45:24
Speaker 1: that this was like an independent plan. That these guys
45:28
Speaker 1: knew osama El Atari. They had heard that he had
45:31
Speaker 1: taken money from a bank. Everybody in the community really
45:34
Speaker 1: knew that. But it is interesting to note that you
45:38
Speaker 1: know years before. In a letter to the judge who
45:41
Speaker 1: ordered his early release, osama Elatari wrote that he was
45:45
Speaker 1: nervous about George Avila Tourre's potentially taking revenge on him.
45:50
Speaker 1: He said, he told me about plans to eliminate witnesses
45:54
Speaker 1: in his upcoming trial based on his past. I knew
45:57
Speaker 1: he would not hesitate to kill me, but I continued
45:59
Speaker 1: to assist anyway because I knew it was the right
46:01
Speaker 1: thing to do. At this point, Osama El Atari had
46:05
Speaker 1: been a witness in the case to convict Georgia Villa
46:10
Speaker 1: Tooris of Aman of Snell's murder, but the case and
46:15
Speaker 1: the trial for the double murder of the girls hadn't
46:18
Speaker 1: taken place yet, so you know, you have to wonder.
46:20
Speaker 1: But I wasn't able to find anything so connect that.
46:24
Speaker 2: Okay, So as far as we know, Donald Clay had
46:27
Speaker 2: no connection to Georgia Villa Torres, just an associate who
46:31
Speaker 2: thought he could get in on some of this money. Yeah,
46:35
Speaker 2: so they never found it, and as millions and millions
46:37
Speaker 2: of dollars yep, and Donald didn't get any of it.
46:42
Speaker 2: His plan didn't work, and he committed a horrific murder
46:45
Speaker 2: and the money is still hidden.
46:49
Speaker 1: So you know, kind of a winding story. I thought
46:53
Speaker 1: it was really interesting how the dots all connected. Probably
46:58
Speaker 1: people have heard of Georgia of vilatoris potentially at this
47:02
Speaker 1: point because he is a serial killer. But I just
47:04
Speaker 1: really thought that it was interesting the way that Osama
47:06
Speaker 1: El Atari's story connected with his, and he was in
47:10
Speaker 1: prison for stealing millions of dollars but then also helped
47:14
Speaker 1: to secure a conviction for a serial killer. Whether or
47:18
Speaker 1: not he did it for his own gain or for
47:20
Speaker 1: the greater good.
47:21
Speaker 2: You know, you could debate that, but yeah, I mean,
47:23
Speaker 2: I think it's something we come back to a lot
47:25
Speaker 2: in our interviews where we hear these heavy stories and
47:31
Speaker 2: most people have good and bad and maybe he did
47:35
Speaker 2: feel it was the right thing to do in addition
47:37
Speaker 2: to knowing it would help him. And it sounds like
47:40
Speaker 2: Osama El Atari committed this financial fraud and he sends
47:44
Speaker 2: to twelve years but he found a way to lessen
47:47
Speaker 2: his sentence that I think he's right it was the
47:49
Speaker 2: right thing to do.
47:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that is the story that I brought to
47:53
Speaker 1: tell you today.
47:55
Speaker 2: That story had so many moving parts and I'm surprised
47:59
Speaker 2: I have hadn't heard more about it. And it sounds
48:02
Speaker 2: like you came across a helpful FBI AffA davit. But
48:06
Speaker 2: otherwise people wouldn't talk to you either, and I guess
48:09
Speaker 2: it's just one of those things. Yeah, thanks for listening.
48:12
Speaker 2: We'll be back next week with an interview. If you
48:18
Speaker 2: have a story for us, we would love to hear it.
48:20
Speaker 2: Our email is The Knife at exactlyrightmedia dot com, or
48:23
Speaker 2: you can follow us on Instagram at The Knife Podcast
48:26
Speaker 2: or Blue Sky at the Knife Podcast.
48:28
Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right production. Hosted and produced
48:31
Speaker 1: by me Hannah Smith.
48:33
Speaker 2: And me paytia Ety. Our producers are Tom Bryfogel and
48:36
Speaker 2: Alexis Samarosi.
48:37
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel.
48:40
Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain.
48:42
Speaker 1: Our theme music is by Birds in the Airport.
48:44
Speaker 2: Artwork by Vanessa Lilac.
48:46
Speaker 1: Executive produced by Karen Kilgareth Georgia Hardstark and Danielle Kramer.