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Show Up & Shine: How to Break Free from Self-Doubt · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willis, and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience, and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: In this show, I'm honored to be chatting with remarkable women, redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries of balance, the challenges they faced, and how they've overcome them to find their own version of success.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Shy away from the real talk.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Money struggles growth, boundaries of balance.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: We cover it all.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Think of this as coffee with your mates, mixed with an inspiring TED talk, sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine, make sure you're cozy, and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or just survive Mondays.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Work It Like a Mum podcast.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Ready to find your perfect job?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Search their website at investinginwomen.co.uk to find your next part-time flexible job opportunity.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now back to the show.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, welcome to this week's episode of the Work It Like a Mum podcast.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: I am chatting with Sarah Hoyle today.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sarah Hoyle is a brand, um, a personal brand photographer for female business owners, and she is also a mindset coach for um female business owners as well.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: And she is on a mission to help women become more visible in business and to get over their limiting beliefs and to achieve their full potential.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are a female business owner that is worried about putting yourself out there, is knows that you are holding yourself back and wants some strategies to overcome that, then this episode is for you.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Sarah, for joining me.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Very excited to be here.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really excited because mindset is huge.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is, it leverages everything.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: So if you haven't got the right sort of mindset, then you'll find that you you do hold yourself back.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: But um, a lot of people aren't really aware of what their mindset is.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, as you say in my intro, I am here to help support, hold women so that they can shine as brightly as they're meant to, because I feel we are we are very guilty of dimming our own flames, and we need to be aware of that and and yeah, just step up a little bit more because truly believe that the more women there are out there earning loads of money and being successful, we will change the world from the state it's in at the moment.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: I could not agree more.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: I am so for women earning money, building wealth, because I think that is honestly how we are actually gonna close the gender pay gap.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely with more female-owned businesses, like rewriting the rules that benefit us is gonna just benefit everybody, even if you don't if you don't want to be an entrepreneur, the more female entrepreneurs we have, the better.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because female entrepreneurs spend money differently as well.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's so true, absolutely.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I do feel like we spend it for the greater good, essentially.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we have this natural nurturing demeanour, and so yeah, if we we have wealth, it's not gonna be frittered away on supercars and things like that, you know, we are gonna be helping each other and supporting each other.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I also think it's really important for us to be role models for the next generation.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've got two daughters, and I want them to see that you know I'm not gonna put up with not being paid my worth and that I am um capable of running a really successful business and owning that, and so they don't have to follow the you know the societal pressure and trend to go to school, go to uni, get a good job, jump on the career ladder, maybe settle down then and have children, and then you know, you kind of come away from their career.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that I feel like yeah, that's where things kind of start unraveling a little bit because then they lose their identity.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Are they mum?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Are they career woman?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on in their life?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that just feels like a real stereotypical pathway for that women are supposed to follow.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: I just think let's break that mould apart, let's just you know, smash that apart.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: We can do whatever we want to and put our minds to.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love this.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I actually can smash that apart?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was so here for this conversation.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: All power to the women for sure.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely, because I think that is that is the path that a lot of people seem to take.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I I'm like pointing here that my career has taken off after having children, particularly because I chose entrepreneurship, and I am you know actually so grateful for having children and how that has like um improved the trajectory of my career and 100%.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I wouldn't have yeah, I wouldn't have even considered running my own business had it not for having children and having a bit of headspace away from my career because I was uh What were you doing pre- Yeah?
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I I was a teacher, I was a secondary school teacher before my business journey started.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that was just something I kind of fell into because in my early 20s, you know, you don't really know what you're gonna do, do you?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I went traveling, I enjoy travelling, I enjoy experiencing things, and then you kind of come back from that experience and go, right, I'm still living with my parents, I should probably get a career, don't really know what I'm doing.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: I my degree was in graphic design, but I was told a lot of negative untruths in my degree that I was not really very good at what I did.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I loved drawing and painting when I was a kid, and I I am an exceptional painter, I'm just gonna say that out loud.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, you own that.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know I am, but I was told I was very traditional and a little bit uh boring in my approach to art.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, it was my tutor's opinion, and so I wanted to become what on as an aside, what a terrible tutor.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's disgusting the way she crushed me, and I was I was quite crushed anyway.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, like the people at that age, teenagers, their self-esteem is quite fragile.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely, and my self-esteem was the rock bottom anyway, because I've been bullied throughout my whole school life, and so I I yeah, I didn't have any confidence at all, and so I didn't stand up for myself at all.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: I just completely believed her.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought, oh gosh.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was doing an um that was during the illustration model, so I was told, yeah, no good.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I I believed that I couldn't draw and I couldn't express myself creatively, so that hung around for quite a long time, that belief.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I didn't believe I could be a graphic designer.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: I came away, so then I just was like rebelled and obviously went travelling and came, then came back and saw an advert, a government advert for being a teacher.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, I'll just be, I could become an art teacher or a or a design and technology teacher because I've got this graphic design degree that can kind of bridge both of those um teaching approaches.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: So then I yeah, I just went along to the interview for that that course and get what got on it, and it just kind of like snowballed, and then before I knew it, I was in front of 30 teenagers not knowing what on earth I was doing.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like and it was never I was never very comfortable because again, as you know, I didn't have confidence, and so suddenly standing up in front of 30 teenagers, so intimidating and all my stuff from my own school life came to the surface, it really exposed how uncomfortable I was in a school environment and how I disliked a certain type of girl.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so even though I could probably see that in the student, those certain types of characters.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely, there's there are you know labels for certain types of girls, unfortunately.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, I I literally shrunk back to being a teenager when even though I was the adult when I was the teacher in the room, so there was a lot of stuff came up for me.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I did work through a lot of that to be able to still be a teacher because I was a teacher for nearly 10 years, um, and in that time I did have my two children.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And as I was going back to my point, uh when I had my first child, I then realized there is so much more to life than getting up super early, being in the classroom by eight o'clock, um, doing something I didn't actually have a passion for and was and struggled with daily, because also I have now realised that I'm actually quite an introvert, naturally.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so to express and have and exude all that energy in teaching, you know, for like five, six hours every day, I was exhausted.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was I know now that I was burnt out, you know.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: When I when I went on maternity leave, it was a relief to perform, really, I guess, in teaching.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's a you have to like perform in teaching.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, 100%.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Not like actually sitting at an you know, if you had you in a way, I feel like people might get a bit if you've got an office job, if you're having like a bad day, if you're not maybe 100%, you sort of hide behind your keyboard a little bit, can't you?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: And drinking.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you can go and have a little gossip in the world.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and just have a few cups of tea and just think I'm just gonna just do bare minimum.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Bare minimum, get through the day.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can't you cannot switch off as a teacher, and even when you're poorly, being off is like more, so much more work because you've got to set cover.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: You still gotta be up in the morning, logging onto your computer, setting cover work, even though you feel like death.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and then when you return, your classroom's a mess because there's been cover teachers in there for however many hours or days, and none of the kids have learned anything because it's just been like this cover lesson, and you're just like, it's not worth it, I'm just gonna drag myself in.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, it just it wasn't a space that I was particularly comfortable in, so I I was exhausted.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: So when I went on maternity leave for my first, um, there were all sorts of things happened to me.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I I had a very traumatic birth experience, um, physically extremely damaged, lots of stuff went undiagnosed, and I know I had postnatal depression, but again, it just wasn't spoken about 13 years ago, and I was struggling a hell of a lot.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: But even through all of that, I still started my first business, which was Sarah Hoyle photography, um, because I was I was that desperate to leave the teaching industry.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: I thought even though I'm mentally and physically struggling in the first few months of motherhood, I still have my eye on the prize of leaving teaching at some point very soon, please.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it was time to, I was, I was able to reflect on how it wasn't serving me that career.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and even though I was struggling with all the, and you know, motherhood, early motherhood is a struggle anyway with lack of sleep, all of the demands that that are on you.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I was still still able to have headspace, even though all of that was going on and go, right, this is not for me.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I would like to be an entrepreneur.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my dad owns his own business for the last sort of 20 years before he retired.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a role model in my in my dad, and thought I can do this, I can do this.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I started terror photography and I focused mostly on family photography or and babies because obviously that was the world I was in at that time with NCT groups and baby groups, and then landed my first wedding, and absolutely loved the fact that weddings paid a hell of a lot more money, and also I just really really enjoyed the day.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is where I want to be, this is so creative.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can be around people, but I'm not with them all the time.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because the day is intense, but then I'm at home editing, and that's that was kind of my happy place, and so I so I just started growing cerebral photography through um despite all the issues that I was having as well.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: I grew it and then I did go back to teaching part-time, which was easier.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I had to hang up my hat with head of department and go part-time, and then have my second child, and then decided at the end of that maternity leave that I I didn't have to go back.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I could afford to be full-time self-employed.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely adore that because yeah, it was what an amazing moment, right?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: An amazing moment to think I've done you must have felt so proud.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, the the freedom and relief was immense.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I was so proud, and I was incredibly lucky in that I had a family and my husband who supported me 100%, and we could see the money was coming in.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't like a one-stop shop kind of thing where it was like, oh, one year I got the right amount of money, and next year I got nothing.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was there was a steady income of weddings.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: You proved it, you proved yourself, yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so evidence was there that this was viable and I didn't have to be in employment anymore, so yeah, that's that was that part.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then live in the dream, and then recently, the last 12 to 18 months or so, I've started to pivot away from weddings because I'm having a similar epiphany in that um I've been doing it now, what, 12, 13 years weddings, and I think I feel like I've done my stint in that industry.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm 46 very soon, and there's some there's some amazing younger photographers coming through, and I'm like, do you know what?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna pass that on to you guys now.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to do that anymore.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I guess with wedding photography you work on Saturdays.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the thing.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, there are with midday um weddings as well, but yeah, I I feel like I want to reclaim my time with my family at the weekends.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as I say, I've got I've got an eight-year-old and a 13-year-old.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: The 13-year-old is not gonna want to hang out with the family for much longer at a weekend.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she's already goes out and sees her friends quite a lot, so yeah, I wanna I wanna do something different, and also I obviously alluded to some of the issues that I had postnatally, so I've been through a huge personal development, personal growth kind of journey, and so I have started Nurture You, which is my new business, which is personal brand photography for women business owners, but also I have qualified as a mindset coach, and those two things merge together beautifully because I feel like women just need a little bit of help, a little bit of support to get in the right mindset so that they show up for themselves for their business, and so I can work with women on their mindset about how they feel about their appearance, how they feel about showing up online, and then also actually follow that through with taking photos of them.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: So they've got a library of amazing photos, authentic photos of them, to then proudly put out onto social media and on their website without any of the hang-ups of oh my goodness, I need to lose weight or my crooked, or you know, any of the stories we tell ourselves about our own appearance.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's my the new business.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that is really lighting me up.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm very happy to put Sarah Hall photography, not on the back burner, but you're still doing photography.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, you're still doing photography, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm still got a few weddings in, I'm still doing family shoots, um, but nowhere near as much, and because I'm my energy now is in nurture you.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to just work with women because I know what it feels like to feel, you know, have no confidence, have no self-esteem, be battered down by life, be in the mindset of a victim of why is this happening to me or why am I not being successful.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I understand all of that, and that's why I decided to become a coach as well, because I I know what it's like to be in that space of negativity, but also to come through it, because that's what I've done.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'm here to be your biggest cheerleader and support you, um, and and then yeah, be able to take your photos as well.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are some of the like mindset limiting beliefs that you see hold female owners back?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so uh a lot of women just tell themselves that they don't deserve to be online or showing themselves up.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, why why do they feel that?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a lot of competition between women and other business owners as well, and so they feel like who am I to take up space?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Who am I to show up?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's always so many other things out there, almost more successful people that are already doing what I want to do.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: So they talk themselves out of it because of perceived competition, lack of yeah, lack of confidence and the fact there's competition out there.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um they also just don't like what they look like, which is incredibly sad.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: So they don't want to show their own face.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um they're worried about judgment of other people and they just don't seem to have the confidence to uh to want to talk about themselves as well.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think we have in society we've kind of been told be quiet, don't blow your own trumpet.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's out here to talk about yourself, you know, stay small.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not attractive to talk about yourself, you know.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: All these stories that we're told in society, you know, be quiet.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Children should be, you know, seen but not heard.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: All of these little limiting beliefs that we're told and that that feed our subconscious that we shouldn't be talking about ourselves, and so there's a lot of fear about talking about what we do, but ultimately people need to know to be able to then buy your services.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: So let's unpack each of those.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if I think that's so I've got here the competition, um you know, perceive that you maybe taking up space that you don't deserve to take up, what you look like, and then that talking about yourself.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So what would you say to somebody listening to this that wants to do something, or say it was one of your clients, and they feel there are other people doing it in their space, you know, and they maybe think they're doing it really well, whatever.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to those people?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: I would just say, if there's already someone doing what you're doing, fantastic.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's proof and evidence that that can be a success.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you would never say, say you were a hairdresser.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's a lot of competition for hairdressers.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you walk down the high street and you go, I want to be a hairdresser, I'm gonna open up a shop on this high street, and then you go, Oh, but there's another hairdresser down there.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: I can't possibly open up another shop, another hairdressing salon because there's already one day.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: You that just isn't a thing, is it?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: You would still do it, or a cafe, or you know, like Starbucks and Costa wouldn't be a thing if they just thought to themselves, I can't do that because there's already another coffee shop brand.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we talk ourselves out of it because we feel like there's there's too much competition.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: But it I'm a I'm a huge believer as well in collaboration over competition.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if you see someone who's doing the thing that you want to do that is about 20 steps ahead of you, hit them up, DM them, talk to them.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: How did you get here?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really interested, I'm doing something similar, but also understanding that you are completely unique, and there's only one of you, and you will bring to the industry your own unique vibe and perspective in you know, in your service.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're not going to be replicating someone else's business, so yeah, reach out, reach out, talk to them, see see what issues they had, and you'll probably find that they've got imposter syndrome, you're they've got someone they then look up to further along the line and go, Oh, I feel like I'm not good enough.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, my god, what are we all doing here?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thinking that we're not good enough.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And just and saying in your own, this is a saying I say all the time, stay in your own lane, keep your eyes on your prize, what any anyver anyone else is doing, that's their journey, not your journey.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was early, early wedding photographer, oh my gosh, I mean, there must be hundreds of wedding photographers.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was very uh insecure when I had imposter syndrome when I first started my business.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I would look at everybody else's style of editing and be like, I want to, I wanna edit that style.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'll try and replicate it with my pictures.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then the next week I'd look at someone else's style and go, Oh, that's that's cool.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: I really want to do that.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would try and replicate that.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't be true to myself, I wouldn't be like, Well, what do I really like?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I was constantly changing my style, and obviously, inconsistency in business is like the worst thing you can do.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: So my people were like, Well, what style is she?
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so no wonder I wasn't getting much working at the in the early stages until I put my big pants on and actually just decided on a style that worked for me that I really liked that I thought could represent who I am artistically and creatively.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Did things then change, uh, you know, sort of start changing?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I, you know, stay stayed in my lane, put the blinkers on, and went, right, what do I want to achieve with my business?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone else is doing their own thing.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, um, if you're too busy watching everybody else, they'll all get to the finish line and you won't.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: What about the woman that comes to you and says they hate how they look?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is heartbreaking.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of the biggest issues, I think, um, that that women have.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I've actually just done a workshop on confidence, and it's so, you know, there's not one thing I can say to a woman because it's it's so deep-rooted some of some of these beliefs and issues that we have about our appearance, um, and it's culturally embedded.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Society puts so much pressure on women to look a certain way, to not age in a certain way.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it it's a very big complicated subject.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: So for the sake of this podcast and not going on for like um hours and hours and hours about it, we can just talk about feeling more confident, and then and then when once you start feeling more confident, then there's a level of acceptance and self-love that comes from that, and then you just don't even question what you look like anymore.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: You just show up as you, uniquely you, without trying to think I need to lose a couple of stone or this, that, and the other.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I feel like I need to get to that level of acceptance because I yeah, I am I'm one of these people that I'm like, I actually think I look okay on the face, but you know, if you do like face to face, I'm like, I've definitely put on weight since working from home, and you know, I'm really conscious of that, and I don't know if a lot of people can relate to that.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Zoom filters are are very forgiving.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thank goodness, thank goodness.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank goodness, yeah, like so interesting.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get to that like level of self-acceptance?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it it comes from self-love and self-respect, and again, that you know, there's many layers to that.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, as I said in my my most recent workshop, um, it's called content confidence, it's being able to be confident to put your face out there online.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about the five steps to feeling more confident.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: So the first step is understanding how your brain works.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I say knowledge is power, yes, but applied knowledge is even more powerful.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: So once you learn how your brain works, it's then applying that knowledge that's going to create change and growth.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: So we talk about how your brain works, then how to master your thoughts.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I did I've created a framework called the ACT framework, which talks about mastering your thoughts.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: So handily it spells act.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't act on anything, then nothing will change.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if nothing changes, nothing changes.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: So the A stands for acknowledging your thoughts, the inner critic, the narratives that we've got going around our heads, all those beliefs that might have been there from childhood.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so that you know, that's not easy, but that's an incredibly hard thing to do, is actually acknowledging the voice inside your head.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people don't even uh aren't even aware there's a voice in their head.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: So some of my clients will say, but I don't have a voice.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, no, no, everybody has a voice, we just need to tap into it.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the A stands for acknowledging all of those horrible things that we say to ourselves, then the C is for challenging those thoughts.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're starting to flip our thoughts and flip our mindset.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So do you always uh tell yourself the worst thing is gonna happen when you think of something?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: So, say for instance you want to put your face on Instagram, do you immediately think I can't do that because people are gonna think I'm fat?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so do you but actually is that really true?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that actually what's going to happen?
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: So just challenging those thoughts is the C stage, and then the T stands for transformation, and that's you doing all of your inner work to be able to transform.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: So there's obviously a lot that goes into each stage, but the T would be actually uh doing the work like uh sitting, doing a meditation every morning, walking in nature, having headspace, having that space to actually acknowledge your thoughts and be able to challenge them.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a saying from a lady that I follow called Roxy Nafusi, and she's an author of um the books called Manifest, and actually she's just yeah, she's just brought out another one called Confidence actually as well, and she's a speaker and an author.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she she says self-discipline is a form of self-respect.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can put in routines where you are giving yourself headspace to consider your thoughts and also treat your body with respect, so don't you know gorge on junk food, um, get really drunk at the weekends and then have to pick yourself up with about three espresso the next morning.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, all about lifestyle choices, being disciplined with all of that and having you know, sp maybe even a spiritual routine throughout the day.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be like an hour long or something.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: I just do a five to ten minute meditation every day and make sure I move my body and as much as possible I'm fairly strict with my nutrition.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so making those choices, you then start becoming more confident and you start transforming into someone that has power over themselves because you are your own authors of your own life, you have control, you are not a victim of what is going on around you, you do have have a chance to be in control.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the ACT framework.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we talk about that in the workshop as well, and then we talk about being intentional with your actions, proving to yourself that you can trust yourself to show up.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: So the more we do the things we say we're going to do, the more trust we have in ourselves and the more confident we feel.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: So if you say, I'm gonna run three times a week, I'm gonna do my couch to 5k or whatever, and you do it, you're way more confident than the person that goes, Oh, I can't be bothered to do that, I'm just gonna sit on the couch instead.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so you know it's that self-love release.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, building the trust that you are gonna do the things you you're gonna say again just builds confidence, and you do start then exuding way more confidence, and then you don't really care what you look like.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: You get to the stage of self acceptance because you love yourself because you're respecting yourself and you're putting all these, you know, very really healthy lifestyle choices in place.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um Another step to feeling more confident is that you are actually the expert.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, you are the expert.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: So imposter syndrome comes up a lot with ideas of confidence, but remember that you are you have value.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: You are the one who owns the business.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: People are coming to you and paying you money.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: That says something.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: So have confidence that you are the expert in your field.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then lastly, don't forget to celebrate yourself.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Look how far you have come.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Every month, look back to see what you have achieved.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it's the tiniest step forward, you celebrate that.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you're concentrating and you're focusing on all the positive things that happen in your life and that you make happen.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: So your energy, what's the saying?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, your your energy goes where your focus goes.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where energy goes.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't get it wrong the right way around.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that's a really long-winded answer to your question, but all of those things will eventually create someone who feels completely comfortable in their own skin and doesn't give a monkeys what someone thinks of their appearance because you are being authentically you and showing up as you, and and and who cares if someone thinks you're a bit overweight or whatever, you know, pfft, I don't care.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, the final thing you you mentioned was this talking about yourself.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that comes up a lot that people feel uncomfortable talking about themselves.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh my gosh, giving their own.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, society has a lot to answer for.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've been guilty of this, not so much online, but I remember being done panels before, and I've always felt I've had to give my answer really quickly to let the other people, and then the other panels seem to have taken ages.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm done with the other thing.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Don't want to put my hand up.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, a lot of that probably comes from the classroom again, like you know, being laughed at if you I don't know, like in a French class and you say the wrong thing, or you know, so we just we we do make ourselves smaller a lot of the time, and again it it comes down to confidence and self-respect that you are able to take up space, you have permission, giving yourself permission to take up space is a real mindset shift.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and again, just being you know, if you go to talk about yourself online, what thoughts pop into your head before you actually do that?
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's something called the self-sabotage cycle, which is something else I introduce in the workshops where our brains are wired to keep us safe at any cost.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we decide to maybe go and do a face-to-face um a talk to talk to camera video or something and put that on Instagram, for instance, you think, well, I'm gonna do that today, I'm gonna be brave, gonna do that video today, and your brain immediately goes into that's something new and something I'm not comfortable doing, and so it then releases uh stress hormones in your system.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so you immediately feel a little bit anxious and a little bit on edge because there's cortisol running around your body, there's adrenaline running around your body.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this all happens in a split second, you might not even be aware of it.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: But once once you know, as I said, applied knowledge is power, so once you you know about the self-sabotage cycle, you can start breaking it.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the the thoughts come in, don't know the doubts come in.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: But what if people think I'm arrogant for talking about myself?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm not comfortable doing this, the doubts, the negative thoughts come in.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then you start thinking you what you want you want to avoid feeling like this because it's a really uncomfortable feeling, and so you think, I tell you what, I won't do that now, I'll put it off till tomorrow.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: So you start avoiding, and then as a as you've made your excuses, you then start feeling relief, and you think, Oh, thank goodness, I don't have to do that horrible awkward thing.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that makes me feel better, and I don't have to step out of my comfort zone.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: But that yes, it's short-term relief, but long term you are gonna be frustrated.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're gonna stay stuck again.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so that loop goes round and round and round, and it feeds itself, and your comfort zone stays the same size, or even worse, gets smaller and smaller until you consciously break out of that.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: Feel the fear, but do it anyway.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Feel the fear and know you can cope with whatever comes along.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's conscious, it's being aware of that cycle and going, Yes, I'm having these doubts and I'm having these negative feelings, and I'm feeling anxious, and my heart's going a little bit, and my palms are gone a bit sweaty, and I'm worried about what people are thinking.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna do it and I'm just gonna see what happens.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because nine times out of ten, you'll get great reaction, and people will go, Oh my god, so nice to see your face.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't even know what you did.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for explaining your services to me.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really interested, you know, and actually, and then that builds in your brain the evidence that that was a good thing to do.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: So the next time you go to do it, you won't be anywhere near as scared.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, love that.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I've really enjoyed our conversation, Sarah.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, how can people work with you, learn more about your services?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm all over Instagram, that's my favorite platform.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I'm Nurture You from Sarah Hoyle on Instagram.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: I, because it's quite a new business, I am still building my website, or someone else is still building my website.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all for outsourcing.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's in uh progress, but hopefully by the end of the year we'll be live.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: But that is um what will the URL be for that?
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's nurture you hang on, nurture you brandphotography.co.uk.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Lovely.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's my website.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if you go to my Instagram, that's that is where I'm most active.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got some little links in my Instagram so you can sign up to my newsletter, which I send out regularly.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: You'll then get notification of any workshops.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, ways you can work with me.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: You can book a photo shoot with me, and I will help you with mindset before we actually do the photo shoot.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've got three different packages for different budgets for that.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can work with me one-to-one with coaching.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I offer power hours if you just want to do one, like trying to look at one thing in your life or business with your mindsets, or I do longer programs like six-week um one-to-one programs for actual coaching, or I run these workshops, which are small intimate groups of women that come together, we talk about all the limiting beliefs, we talk about the self-sabotage, we talk about the ACT um framework, we break down all of those things, and then that's in the morning, and then the afternoon you have a mini brand shoot, so you put all of that work in place and you come back.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds fabulous.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: So honestly, the last one I did, the energy in the room was insane, and there was only we only had four ladies, yeah.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: But it was incredible, and I feel like I really want to just keep it small because that it just meant that people weren't scared to open up about their limiting beliefs and their fears, and everyone was like, I feel that too.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a lot of validation in the room, yeah.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then in the afternoon they were smashing their photo shoots because they built this confidence in the in the first couple of hours of the morning and realized they weren't alone and that they can do it, you know.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: They they suddenly had this epiphany that oh my gosh, I can step up in front of the camera, this is great, I'm gonna really enjoy this.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so then they've got these amazing photos where they're just glowing and being their most confident that they've ever felt.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if you go onto my Instagram and follow me, you'll get a notification of when those workshops are gonna happen.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the next one's gonna be either end of October or beginning of November for the next content confident workshop.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, um, we'll get the episode released before then.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: So oh, amazing.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's all right.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much, Sarah.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, thank you.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's been lovely.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: What a great I've loved our conversation.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work It Like a Mum podcast.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and subscribe.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: And don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you're on LinkedIn, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willet and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: You can also follow my recruitment site, Investing in Women, on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, keep on chasing your biggest dreams.