Latest / Marci talks money (and life) / Business, Family, and Entrepreneurship with Jessica Lerner Halprin
Transcript
- Marci Grossman (00:01.299) Hello, I am MoneyMarci, welcome. I am thrilled to welcome today's guest, Jessica Lerner Halprin. Jessica is the founder and CEO of Swanky, an all-in-one event planning platform designed to make celebrations effortless, organized, and meaningful. A corporate A corporate attorney turned tech founder, Jessica spent years advising businesses on legal and financial risk before making the leap into entrepreneurship. Drawing on more than 25 years planning her own events, built Swanky to dem- Jessica built Swanky to democratize the luxury of a professional party planner, giving busy hosts the tools to create celebrations with confidence, clarity, and ease. Today, Jessica speaks candidly about money, career pivots, and the financial lessons she's learned navigating corporate law, motherhood, and the realities of building a company as a female founder. Welcome, Jessica. Jessica Halprin (01:07.672) Thank you for having me, Marci. Marci Grossman (01:09.587) Well, I am so excited. We had a pre-meeting and you just have so much wonderful information that I'm very excited about this. Jessica Halprin (01:18.766) Thank you. I'm looking forward to our talk. Marci Grossman (01:21.415) So You started out as a lawyer and you practiced for a number of years and you don't go into law on a whim. You have to put in, you get your bachelor's degree, you go to law school, you do all those things and you practice. So you were very committed to that path. Jessica Halprin (01:24.098) Yes. Jessica Halprin (01:43.66) I was. In fact, I was committed to the path of an attorney since I was seven years old and I was home sick and back before the internet and streaming. There was nothing to do other than watch reruns and Perry Mason, who at the time was even considered vintage aired in black and white television. And that was all I had to watch all day long. And in my fevered state, I declared by dinner that I was going to be an attorney and I was. I committed to that path. Marci Grossman (02:18.739) That's awesome. You didn't practice trial law, Jessica Halprin (02:23.622) I didn't, well, you know, during a summer associate, I had been in the court, but no, the vast majority of my official legal career was as in-house counsel. And so I usually say that I'm a corporate attorney, but those who are in the know understand when I say I was a transactional attorney, being in-house meant that I would negotiate on behalf of my employer who was my single client and I would negotiate and draft contracts on their behalf with either their customers or their vendors and their suppliers. So if I did my job right, no one would be inside a courtroom. Marci Grossman (03:08.987) I like that and when I do my job right no one has to talk to the IRS. I totally get that. So leaving being a lawyer I mean here you are taking a well-paying prestigious career and saying yeah I'm gonna go try something new. That had to be a few conversations with your husband, your financial advisors and spreadsheets. Jessica Halprin (03:13.102) You Jessica Halprin (03:31.155) Well, it was, but I didn't pivot overnight. It was actually a series of events that happened over the course of quite a few years. I unfortunately had my dream job and my mother was diagnosed with cancer. And it got to the point where I was unable to work at my dream job and care for my mother. I was her primary caregiver. So I took a leave of absence being in house counsel. And after she passed away, when I was about to transition and return to work, I found myself, she had managed and she had owned a company that We called a family company that she had managed that and so with her gone someone had to step in and my siblings and my father were not the ideal candidate. So I was sort of nominated by my family to step into that and then about a hot second later we had something called COVID-19 which everything was shut down and my three children were young at the time. They were all in grade school. And my husband was a professional firefighter. So he was a first responder. And so nearly overnight, like so many millions of us, my world turned upside down and I went from poised to return to in-house council work, work that I had loved, to being a stay-at-home parent, a full-time elementary school teacher, a full-time everything else that dealt with keeping my family afloat and sane during the pandemic. And it wasn't until as we were starting to come out of the pandemic that there was another series of quintessential moments where I was faced with planning a few milestone celebrations for my own family. Now that we... Jessica Halprin (05:47.097) thankfully all survived the pandemic. And that's when I sort of had a watershed moment, basically at the encouragement of my friend when I was getting really frustrated with the lack of software out there to make my life easier as both a working professional and a parent and someone who enjoys throwing parties. And my friend said, you know what? You used to work in a software startup. Why don't you go ahead and start building something. But I couldn't. I dismissed her out of hand because that's what I did. I was, as you heard, I was committed to being an attorney for decades and I couldn't get it out of my mind. So it percolated with me for quite some time over weeks. And I started doing research over those weeks turned into months, and that's when I started having conversations with my spouse, my sister, whom I consider a wonderful advisor to me, and thinking about it, doing research, doing my background checks and balances, my due diligence, not to be an attorney about it. And finally, this is turning into a very long story, my apologies. Marci Grossman (07:10.097) you Jessica Halprin (07:10.55) Marci, that it got to the point my mother had left me a little bit of money when she had passed away and my husband and I talked and we figured that we could afford for me to take that little bit of money and use that as my my guidepost I suppose and say you know what I'm going to pursue this until that money is used and the time is used for it and Three years later, here I am. Marci Grossman (07:42.964) Well, I love that because as someone who has had to plan a couple of parties and it is not my wheelhouse, I am not a planner of that type in any way, it's overwhelming to try and plan a party and hiring a planner can be expensive. So having software available to keep things organized is amazing. Spreadsheets have limitations. Jessica Halprin (08:07.49) They certainly do have limitations and even the expense of an event planner just paying, you know, his or her invoice is not the only expense, right? There's the expense of even trying to find the right event planner for you. So there's the time that we spend looking for referrals, recommendations, trying to find an event planner, now interviewing potential event planners, reaching out, you know. There's a value in the time spent in researching that. And of course, once you have an event planner, as someone who's worked with them both professionally and privately, there's an expense, there's an added person involved in communicating. So there is a cost to the time delay, let's say for example, in communicating with your event planner. And yes, I love event planners. I think a good event planner is invaluable, but not everyone has the, as you said earlier, the financial means or the resources. And of course, once you've hired, assume you've hired the best event planner in the world, maybe the next event you throw, there isn't a budget for that event planner. Yet he or she has retained all the information that was culled when you planned that first event. And so trying to retrieve it can sometimes be a challenge, but this is why Swanky allows our users to have all of that information, all that what we would call in the corporate world, institutional knowledge saved in one place and easily retrievable. Marci Grossman (09:55.326) No, I love that. Celebrations are so important, whether you're spending a lot on a celebration or a little on a celebration, the acknowledgement of whatever milestone or achievement, it's so important because it keeps us going. Jessica Halprin (10:12.8) It absolutely does. It's something that, like I said, I've always wanted to be an attorney and I was very focused on that for decades. But I didn't realize until my world sort of fell apart with the loss of my mother and then having survived the pandemic that at the same time I was growing up focused on being an attorney, my mother was throwing wonderful events and celebrations, big, small, everything in between. And it sort of became a part of my life unknowingly so that when I was an adult and I moved out of the house, I started throwing, you know, little get togethers with friends, book club, girls' poker night. I mean, things as small as that are still celebrations, right? They're a difference from the everyday humdrum and obligations and responsibilities that we have, that life can be challenging enough and to celebrate. should not be even more challenging. So that's why I created Swanky to not just democratize the expenses, but to be that sort of like that best friend, that comrade when you're down and you're planning and you're feeling overwhelmed by these decisions that most of us don't have to make on a regular basis. So we're not used to it and it becomes even more stressful. for them and That's why we have Swanky because for me, organizing calms me down. That there is a formula for a celebration and when the host arrives, calm, cool and collected, that's gonna be the best party. It doesn't matter how much is spent. As long as the host can arrive calm, relaxed, ready to celebrate with their guests, then that's a success. Marci Grossman (12:10.941) That That is true. If you can't be part of your own celebration that you're throwing, that certainly doesn't encourage you to do the next one. Now starting, self-funding a software startup, there's got to be a lot of challenges, financial risks, all those things that come as part of it. Would you be willing to speak to that? Jessica Halprin (12:21.262) Mm. Jessica Halprin (12:37.614) Of course. Jessica Halprin (12:43.736) Where shall I begin? Yes, I had originally a set budget that my husband and I, because we are of one household, we came across this together. We set our, my budget together . that the first thing I did, I don't know if it's my being an attorney or being type A, but I did research, right? Because if my mother had left me $5 and someone said, if you ever wanna get anything off the ground, it's going to be $100, then I don't know if I would have begun. So what I did was a lot of research. I looked into my own network. And when I say network, I don't even necessarily mean a professional. network. I know a lot of attorneys and business folks, but I also have a lot of friends, a lot of family members who might, who knew someone who maybe knew someone else. So I definitely reached out to my network and I started taking meetings. I asked people, hey, can I buy you a cup of coffee? Can I take you to lunch? And just let me know, this is going to be a huge pivot for me. Am I naive? Am I just jumping off a cliff without a parachute? Let's be realistic about this. And so that's what I was sort of asking for a reality check doing that research. Once I did what I felt was my due diligence in terms of how much initial seed money I would need to get to the point where I can launch the software, then I started to move forward working at that. Now, when someone starts a software, there are two things that are a little different from the last time I worked for a software startup on the first dot com boom, which now software is no longer a, I will not say floppy disk because no one's going to understand what that means, but software is no longer even a DVD. You know, they used to send out even, you know, like Microsoft Word would send out you'd Marci Grossman (14:51.155) . Jessica Halprin (15:00.366) purchase an actual physical object. That is not the case now. Now it's called a SaaS product, which is software as a service. So a lot of people say, OK, well, where's your product? It exists on the internet because the website is sort of the portal. It's the gateway. It's the doorway into accessing our software as a service. Now when companies launch, when startups launch, SaaS products, that's how we casually refer to them as. They generally, unless they've lucked out and they are made of money and have an unlimited expense, or they have found angel investors who are throwing million, I mean, we're talking eight figures and plus at them, then they may not have to consider this, but certainly, you you know 99% of the software founders have to consider that the first product they build is not the product that when I was starting to consider Swanky, I dreamed. I had all these bells and whistles. I was dreaming of, let's say, the Ferrari or the Rolls Royce, but a software founder who is self-funding has to... create the MVP, which is the minimum valuable product that can get out there and hopefully start to get customers and start to get users. So we sort of build the, I don't want to disparage any automobile manufacturer, but let's say the starter car. We build the starter car and from there we are going to daisy chain as we add more users. Then we slowly are funding little by little. And that way I'm able to maintain my independence, maintain my vision. But of course, there are some negatives with that as well, which I'm happy to talk about. Marci Grossman (17:06.163) So you had this budget, were you able to stick within it? Jessica Halprin (17:11.884) Jessica Halprin (17:16.46) The short answer is I stuck within my budget to get me my goal. which was My goal was to figure out whether my product would appeal to other people, not just the lawyer who's used to a lot of very well established corporate apps and type A and a Virgo and I love a good Excel spreadsheet, not just me, an experience private event host, but that would appeal to a large number of our target users. And we did reach our MVP. We launched with it in January of 2024 and I did stay within my budget. I did have to expand my budget. mean, Right now, unfortunately, we are, actually I'm not gonna say unfortunately because this is the process. So right now, every, every morning I wake up and I think about, what's the, are we on target with our plans and our strategy for the next round of functionality and the next round? And right now, thankfully we have not run out of money. We do have paying users, which are helping move things along. But every single day, almost every single day, I do still think about because it is self-funding and I haven't gone to family or friends for their investments. I still work. I have a few legal clients who are helping fund a little bit of this and we're still staying afloat thankfully. but just to Literally just today, I I'm looking to hire a an independent contractor for to do something for us on a very finite project basis. And he sent me his quote. Well, I have to make an economic decision, right? Is the cost of hiring him worth it? Or can I find someone less expensive who will take longer, maybe not create the product that we need. him to do? And that's what a founder is doing. A founder is always thinking, what's the cost benefit analysis of spending this money? Am I going to be penny wise and pound foolish? Jessica Halprin (19:44.043) And sometimes I make the right decision to spend a little more money and then it works out in the end. And sometimes I don't make the right decision. But luckily it hasn't come to the fact, it hasn't come to the point where Swanky has to close its doors. We're growing every day. We're getting new paid users every day. And it's a wonderful feeling to have. Marci Grossman (20:09.755) That's awesome. Was your family entrepreneurs or what did you grow up talking and learning about money? Jessica Halprin (20:17.29) So my family, you know, it's funny. We didn't call them entrepreneurs. I don't know how old that term is. It's certainly very stylish now. but My grandparents had their own businesses. We didn't call them entrepreneurs. They were small business owners. and... My parents, my mother was trained as a social worker and she was amazing at it. She really understood people, which is an amazing skill and talent to have. And my father, even though he was trained as an engineer, he ran a construction company and then went into real estate management and ownership. Then my mother, when she was raising my siblings and me, she took some time off. And then she had a mind that could not settle. So she went into business for herself. When her father retired, she took over. She bought out part of his business and then she started running that. So I suppose I was surrounded by entrepreneurs, even though I myself took a very, being a lawyer, yes, it was an arduous path, but in a lot of ways it was very predictable, it was very secure. I knew I'd find a job somewhere doing something, earning a decent salary, which I did. And there was a lot of security with that. And I think in retrospect, that was probably because I took a lot of the subliminal and sometimes not subliminal messages of my family about money to heart and I was looking for security in a lot of ways. I can certainly talk about, you know, specific things about my family where, my poor father, he, I still remember as a child, wanting to wear, guess jeans or a polo shirt, you know, something with a little emblem on it. And my father would say, honey, are they paying you? Jessica Halprin (22:40.566) Is that company paying you to advertise their clothing? No, daddy, they're not. Well, then we're not paying to wear that clothing. So it was very practical. You know, he's of another generation that had seen, you know, World War II and, you know, a lot of disruption and they were certainly very pragmatic with their money. My mother raised me that the most important things in life are your health and your education. And so if you have to spend money, those are the two places you should be spending money on. And I realized as an adult that my mother leaving me a little bit of money when she passed away, my grandmother, she also left me a little bit of money when she passed away. It was very important to them as women that all of their children, of course, but very particularly their female children and their granddaughters would understand the vitalness, I don't think that's a real word, the essential importance of having financial independence. And that comes from a slightly traumatic story. which I'm happy to go into. if you're curious to hear about it or we can move on. Marci Grossman (24:12.563) I don't know if I should. Is it a kind of a financial thing or is it a personal? Certainly if it's financial we're always interested. I just never want to go too deep. Jessica Halprin (24:16.782) It's completely financial. Jessica Halprin (24:22.422) Okay. No, no, no. It's, but I understand. Okay. So. Jessica Halprin (24:32.278) I have to end with, I have to begin with my conclusion, which is sometimes as adults, we don't realize the impact that our own family stories have on us and have had on us as children until we get to adulthood. And it really wasn't until I founded my company Swankey that I understood this little story that I'm about to tell you, how it impacted and sort of, pushed me in a subtle way towards choosing the profession of law, being a more secure profession, as well as my general approach to making sure, or at least feeling like I made sure all of my ducks were in a row financially before starting Swankey. And that story is that my great grandmother, her father, was a small business owner. He had owned a jewelry store in Philadelphia at, I initially would tell the story as the turn of the century, but now I have to specify. In the turn of the early 1900s, he had owned a jewelry store and it was very rare for young girls and young women to go to work with their fathers, but she did and she loved working in the jewelry store. She ended up getting married and having a few children, but she still worked in the jewelry store. She had a mind for it. She enjoyed it. It brought her pleasure and joy. and she was still looking after. she had had, I think it was her, She ended up having five children. And I want to say her fourth child, she was in the hospital after having given birth. And back then women were in the hospital for a couple of weeks after having given birth. They're not sort of. thrown out after 24 hours or 48 hours. So while she was in the hospital, her husband, her father had already passed away years before. And so she was effectively running this jewelry store by herself and with her husband. And her husband sold the jewelry store out from under her, her birthright, what gave her a large part of meaning and value, Marci Grossman (26:25.725) Yeah. Jessica Halprin (26:53.376) and her father's birthright. And he did this because he wanted to go into the clergy and wanted to be a traveling clergyman. And he decided that's what they were going to do. And so my grandmother spent the rest of her youth traveling with the family. And this is what happened. People didn't get divorced as much back then. And my great grandmother was now forced into this life. So that fast forward to when my grandmother made her money. She had a career. She was an English teacher. And my children hate that fact because I'm always correcting their grammar. So when she was able to save a little bit of money, she made it very clear that it was for me and for my children. And even though she loved my husband, I always grew up with the warning that women need to have separate bank accounts. We always need a little, when I say we, I say women. We always need, Women It's a little bit of safety money, a little bit of independence. And frankly, I urge that not just for women, but for anyone in a relationship. that My mother would say flippantly, she who holds the purse strings holds the power. And it is a mantra. I certainly don't say it every day, but it is always in the back of my mind that. Marci Grossman (28:39.703) Absolutely. Everyone should have money in their own name that they have control over. No matter what your situation, no matter what your relationship is. Yes, I preach that regularly. So yes. Jessica Halprin (28:55.606) And I'm surprised how many people it either doesn't occur to them, of all genders, it either doesn't occur to them, or they never heard it, or there's pushback. And I'm thinking, what? How could there possibly be pushback. on, In our society, financial independence is power, and it's physical independence. It's independence from so many things, so many outside, influences, outside situations. And that's the other thing that my mother, still really, it does sort of guide me and it sort of guides how I educate my own children. Marci Grossman (29:45.242) That's good, that sounds very balanced. The lessons we learn, we don't realize we learn growing up what we see around us and just the things we absorb and translate in our own mind of what it means and how it should go forward. Since we're talking about money that they've left and whatever else, did your mother, your grandmother, your great-grandmother have... other end of life plans other than making sure they left money individually to the children. Jessica Halprin (30:17.932) Well, the money, yes, they were very large philanthropists for what they could afford to provide to charity. It's sort of a guiding principle within my own family and has been for generations and culturally. We believe that money should be used to heal. And I suppose in some ways, I hope that's what Swanky is doing for people. But yes, they left donations to charities that were important to them. And as well as a lot of people now leave instructions for families saying that, I'd really love it if you would donate to an animal shelter or an environmental cause or et cetera, sort of, you know, letting their family know. And frankly, I would encourage, not to be a lawyer about this, but it's really hard not to be. That having, I hope Marci, you'll let me inclusive, not just edit me out, but that the great, I honestly believe that I understand that is very hard for a lot of people to confront the reality that the only certainty in life is death and taxes, right, and they don't look favorably on either. However, one of the greatest gifts that we can give our loved ones is to prepare for when we are no longer here. That means having a will, having it being updated periodically, even if you feel, not you Marci, but even if one feels that they don't have a large enough estate or property, what have you. It is the last communication that we will give to our loved ones. And every state has a different law. Every state has a different probate court that it's just going to, when your family should be able to have the time and the space to grieve you and to memorialize you, to be able to give them a. Jessica Halprin (32:38.56) a finished legal document and say, don't worry about it. It's covered. I'm sharing with you what my final wishes were and I'm letting the courts and the government and the IRS know what my intentions were. I think that's something that my mother and my grandmother might, what can I say? Maybe it was inevitable that I'd become an attorney. Thanks for part of my life. Marci Grossman (33:05.031) Well, no, and I totally agree. It is so important to have these documents, to have that control as well as to give that security to the people following after you as they know what to do. And it's so important. And in fact, that these documents need to be updated periodically. It shouldn't be 10 years before you look at your will or trust again. It certainly shouldn't be longer than that. because there are law changes, there are situational changes, maybe someone was born or someone died or fortunes changed and I've had to deal with a number of the finances after someone has passed and the documents haven't been as updated as they should be and it can create hardship and heartache and grief because I've seen people fighting over trying to interpret what was really meant and I don't think anyone leaves a will and trust with the idea of, this will be the last time my children ever talk to each other, because of this contributing to anger about other things rather than having it be clear. So absolutely, absolutely. not cutting any of it. Jessica Halprin (34:11.278) Mm. Jessica Halprin (34:25.486) you Jessica Halprin (34:28.91) Marci Grossman (34:30.407) But What financial lessons have you learned starting your business, dealing with the aftermath of your mother, raising your own kids? What financial lessons have you learned that you want to make sure get shared out into the greater world of the people in your life? Jessica Halprin (34:51.104) I think starting a startup, what a terrible sentence, but starting a startup, that my mother used to say, never go into business with friends or family. And she had, listen, she was someone who knew people. And I'm sure if you line up, you know, a thousand different entrepreneurs, a lot of them would say, it's been great going into business with a friend or with a family member. Jessica Halprin (35:28.02) That can have its own challenges. And I think that it's important to go in with your eyes wide open because as the company evolves and grows, your relationship is inevitably going to be impacted. I think probably the greatest lesson or the first really big lesson I learned after having started Swanky was actually not so much about the company itself. It was realizing that when I started the company, I thought I was done grieving the loss of my mother. And I really wasn't. And even though I'm an attorney and I live and die by the get it in writing mantra, there were still some decisions that I had made that I probably should have waited on because I wasn't yet in the right emotional head space to have made them. I think that the usual warning signs that I would have recognized had I not been grieving, had my husband not been working a gazillion hours fighting the pandemic as a first responder, that I would have been more prepared. I just didn't realize the depth of my grief to have colored my decisions. And that was a tough lesson to have learned, but I did it. And I'd like to say that I came out better on the other side of it. And I'd say that's my first really big lesson. The other is that I have a conversation probably about once a quarter with my head of product development and we look at the numbers and we decide, okay, is this the time where we're going to go for outside funding or is it not? Can we hold on a little bit longer to maintain our independence both fiscally and in terms of ideation and Jessica Halprin (37:52.771) you know, how we want Swanky to work for people. But it's a conversation. I'm not someone, as much as I like rules and order and documentation, I'm not someone who likes to draw a hard line in the sand. And I think as a business owner, you have to constantly be open to, okay, I'm on a consistent path right now, but there might be new information out there or the information that I already have may have changed based on variety of factors and it's time to reconsider. So I don't mind every quarter having that discussion. It's an important one to have. And I suspect this is what Fortune 500 companies talk about, right? Are they going to borrow more money, go for more, you know, et cetera. And just because I'm a smaller company and I'm considered, you know, quote unquote, a startup right now, it doesn't mean I shouldn't be thinking about that. I absolutely should be, and I do. Marci Grossman (39:06.959) I love that you're treating your business as a business, as you should, no matter how many zeros are in the number. I love that you brought up about grief impacting your decisions. It's so important to realize that our mental state, our emotional state, is going to impact the quality of our decisions, whether it makes them better or worse, time only tells. But if you don't, put that into consideration, you're missing out on evaluating the whole picture. Jessica Halprin (39:40.014) Absolutely. Marci Grossman (39:46.093) I, Wow, I think we've covered a ton of information in here. This has been a great conversation. Do you have anything you want to mention that maybe we haven't covered? Jessica Halprin (40:01.89) Hmm, Not to be preachy about it, but I am a mother to three children and I've always felt that it's been, first of all, work-life balance is not a thing. You're just gonna be working. However, it has always been very important to me, to my husband, that our children see us working. So I work from home and my kids come home from school. They come from home from their activities. There are some days I could put down what I'm doing and go be with them, know, see them get a snack, chat for a few minutes about their days, and then I'll return to work. And it's so important, I think, for children to see that the house, the roof that is over their head, the clothing that they wear, the food that they eat, that it doesn't just appear. No matter what their economic status is, what our economic status is, is that to have a constant, or rather a consistent dialogue with our children, to understand, to have a little bit of financial literacy, that I've been fortunate that I'm able to build Swanky. It's a company that I love. I believe in our principles and I'm glad that I'm working for it. But sometimes there are really stressful days, really chaotic days that I want to feel like I pull my hair out. But I don't want to shield my children from that because as they leave our house and they grow up and they try to establish a life of their own is that it's not all sunshine and daisies and rainbows. It's putting work forward, but it's good, honest work and not to shy away from it. Marci Grossman (42:07.8) Yeah, that's great advice. Having the conversations about money, having them see you work, having them see that transition from one to the other. I mean, we had Dad's desk at home and when my dad came home, he would come home for dinner. So he was at dinner with us, I'm going to say almost every night because I imagine there were times, whatever. then he would sometimes work in the evening and there was a designated space and he was in the family room so we might watch TV and he's working or we might be doing other things and him working was just part of our lives and I think that has contributed to the work ethic of myself and my siblings. Jessica Halprin (42:52.29) That's wonderful that you were exposed to that. Marci Grossman (42:55.39) Well, and look what you're exposing your kids to, so back at ya! Jessica Halprin (42:57.454) Yes. Yes. Marci Grossman (43:03.572) Thank you so much for being my guest today, Jessica. I appreciate you taking the time to join on my podcast. Here's where... Jessica Halprin (43:13.614) sorry. People refer to me as a layered talker or something where I tend to interject, you know, the lawyer and me. But Thank you so much, Marci, for having me, for reaching out to me. It's so wonderful to see a smart, confident woman. run her own company, I'm talking about you now, Mercy, as well as delving into modern technology and putting this podcast out there for other business owners, people who want to be business owners, female, non-female, everyone to come listen to. I really enjoy listening to your podcasts and your other guests. And I think it's an invaluable service to have everyone who listens to really take ownership of their decisions and not be afraid to talk finances and how it impacts our lives. Marci Grossman (44:15.774) Well, thank you for all of that. To my listeners, I will be sharing a link to Jessica's information and Swanky in the show notes. Please check her out. She's got a lot of great information and puts out lovely videos. Don't... Jessica Halprin (44:18.25) You Jessica Halprin (44:32.718) my gosh, that's been tough. my gosh. That's really out of my comfort zone. Marci Grossman (44:39.942) Hey, you gotta learn new things, build new muscles. You're doing great. Don't forget to subscribe, leave us a review, and stay tuned. I'll see you next time. This has been MoneyMarci on Marci Talks Money (and Life). You got this. Jessica Halprin (44:43.48) Thank you.