Latest / Becoming Flame: Where Sensuality, Sovereignty, and Sacred Power Ignite / Your Voice and Power Live in Your Pussy with Nadia Lune

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Your Voice and Power Live in Your Pussy with Nadia Lune · Becoming Flame: Where Sensuality, Sovereignty, and Sacred Power Ignite

• Kait Tregenza: Wow, that was a really interesting conversation for me. I really learned a lot about. Welcome to another episode of Becoming Flame. Today we are talking to Nadia Loon. Nadia calls herself the pleasure witch, but what she's really doing is teaching people how to come back into their bodies without lying to themselves about what it costs. She's a trauma-educated sex, love and relationship coach who works at the crossroads of nervous system reality where pleasure, consent, trauma, relapse, regain, empower and disempowerment wanted to check ⁓ two things you. ⁓ On your website you had she and now have they she. ⁓ So can I just clarify ⁓ your what ⁓ I am correct refer to as? Nadia Lune (they/she): Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: approaching this work in reducing the polarity or reducing the desire to go into one extreme or the other and even in really approaching the thinking around how does patriarchy show up in my personal life, in my personal body, in the way that I approach pleasure, in the way that I approach myself. ⁓ Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, either or, they or she. think, yeah, cause my Instagram is theyshe. So yeah, but either or. I love interchangeably if you feel equipped to do that, but feel free, whatever is easiest for you. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: all collide. What I love about her work is its nervous system recalibration and body work. Yeah. So can I ask how you came to this, ⁓ maybe not discovery, but identification? what was the process like for you? and how stripped of our power we are, which we all know of. We know that our pussy contains the power of our entire primordial being and the connection that we have to all that we are and all that we are. But it's really in the investigation point around. not in the traditional way of how people talk about it, where it's like regulating your nervous system or trying to move through trauma. But she's, she's talking about if you can feel pleasure in your body, if you can feel pleasure in your nervous system, then you step out of the theoretical, the intellectual and back into the body. And I love that. And I'm so excited about this conversation because how many of us listening Nadia Lune (they/she): Totally. Yeah, so I've been queer forever, like before we even knew what this word was, because I would hang out at the gay bars and gay parties, and back then you weren't even allowed to be bisexual. You were either gay or straight. And I was like, I don't identify with any, and I don't know, and it was confusing. Kait Tregenza: How do you program via pleasure receptors your mitochondria, your cellular repair, the life that you're living, the way in which you're approaching yourself being the creator of your own existence. If you can't create your own pleasure, if you can't be the generator of your own pleasurable life and you don't have to go into the femininity around that. You can just be a human. today are totally and 100 % aware of our traumas, could intellectualize our traumas, could theorize our traumas better than our our therapists and yet we're still looping in them. We're still constricted by them, controlled by them. That's what's giving us our life and so what I love about Nadia is yes she's hyper aware and yes she's gone through her own journey. She survived sexual assault Nadia Lune (they/she): my friends would bring me to straight parties and I would hate it there and then Kait Tregenza: Most people hate straight parties, even straight people, okay? Nadia Lune (they/she): I, well... My friends loved it, so I don't know. Kait Tregenza: Okay, then maybe I'm just revealing myself. experiencing pleasure and joy and accept that in the neutrality and when everything is nothing and nothing is everything it strips itself of all power right and you reclaim and you remember and you step into that being who you are and who you be. I had so many more things that I wanted to talk to Nadia about I had Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, I mean, especially when you start on discovery of things deeper, right? ⁓ But yeah, and then I was in this queer youth group where people were ⁓ allowed to bring name or, I don't think they was a thing then, ⁓ but different pronouns or different names in that space, and I felt so at home. And so it's just been this evolution of what is queerness to me. Kait Tregenza: She's rebuilt self-trust from the inside. She's accepted that consent. of the body of your life is such a profound and important role that she needs to be taking. And she's so relatable to so many of us because she started with a journey of difficulty and she's alchemized that into a pleasurable pathway where she actually teaches other women how to embody pleasure in a way that feels right for them. She's deconstructed the ⁓ my God, hundreds of questions that I cut down to, you know, 10 or 15. And we got to some of them, but every time she said something, I wanted to go deeper into it and deeper into it. And I think that's why, ⁓ first of all, I should have a podcast, right? Cause I want to talk to people about a lot of this stuff. ⁓ so that's good. I did that. but really around how deep. Nadia Lune (they/she): Queerness in foundation is a sociopolitical stance and identity. so queerness is not just my gender, but also my sexuality. And then beyond that, like my sociopolitical, how I live and breathe in the world essentially, and all the opinions I have and these kinds of things. I'm an activist. ⁓ But then with they, she... Kait Tregenza: the conventional roles and assignments that society gives us. She's looked the patriarchy in the eye and said, no, thank you. I'll do it my way. And I just love everything that she does is around self-consent, choice, and the kind of pleasure that doesn't require disassociation, that doesn't require freezing or holding the body. And because I've had such a similar lived experience to her, the journey of personal pleasure can be in manifesting, in creating and generating not only the body health system that you want, but the nervous system. So everybody's talking about nervous system repair work or regulation work. What if we programmed the nervous system to expect and accept and receive pleasure? Nadia Lune (they/she): Essentially, like I started she they because I was like, okay, I want to try this on and then yeah. Kait Tregenza: Right, it was like a gateway. I'm gonna still be called She, but like, put they in there, I'm gonna try it on, and now you've inversed it you're like, no, I'm really gonna, yeah, take this. Nadia Lune (they/she): Exactly. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: I think we're gonna go really deep. I've prepared so many questions. I hope that we can get to all of them. But you know, come what may. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, and so I mean, in like my truest essence, they, them is really actually like where I land, especially in this work, because when I started to understand the trans experience as being a very spiritual experience, it really started to identify with me. And ⁓ I'm not two-spirited, but I have friends who are two-spirited because I'm not Indigenous, and that's not something I can claim. Kait Tregenza: that feels like a step further in the correct position. What if you were so calibrated to pleasure and receiving pleasure and expecting a life of pleasure that your body's literally out there looking for it, attracting pleasure to you, attracting more that is in resonance with the actual world that we live in, not the false one, not the illusionary one, but the world of the earth. I think what I'm most excited about in this conversation is how to forge another path based on the trust that you instill in your body and how to craft a bigger life, a safer life, a more abundant life, but a pleasurable life. And that's what Nadia lives, breathes and knows everything about. And I absolutely love having conversations with people who alchemize the diff, the most difficult and the worst moments of their life into pure gold. Nadia Lune (they/she): but I started to learn from what does two-spirited mean and these kinds of things. So being in this liminal space of being able to hold something spiritual that is beyond gender became a very strong identity for me. And shaving my head was a part of that too, just being more outwardly queer and just how I live my life and such. Kait Tregenza: that is designed to give to you. And what if we tapped into that and we accepted that and we received that in our body. It's got a lot for me to think about and a lot for me to embody. And I think even just that singular commitment to speaking with your pussy every single morning, every single day throughout the day. and then set out on a mission to help others. ⁓ But Nadia is not just about lived experience. She's deeply trained in Vita certification plus specializes in yogi egg sex magic tantric sex pelvic floor work. She's an ex-Pilates teacher. She's an ex-dance and movement therapy coach and she's extremely honest about the messy human education that she got through years as a sex worker. Knowledge that she says herself has shaped how she holds people, especially those Nadia Lune (they/she): but I still hold she because I play even with he sometimes. I work with energetic cock sometimes. ⁓ So, and I also do identify with in the teaching space with women and identify as a woman in partially of it. So it's nuanced and big and complicated, but it's also all of it is true essentially. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: and really connecting in with a body technology system. I say this all the time, but I have to say, I have to admit in this moment, I don't wake up in the morning and talk to my pussy. And I think that is one thing that I can commit to after this conversation. And maybe that's something that you would like to take away too. Have a great day. Hope this conversation changed you. who have been objectified, silenced or trained to perform. So her work is through the Sacred Sexuality School or the Pleasure Witch Coven and she runs retreats. So I think what I'm most excited about asking Nadia is what changes when you stop... It's really fascinating as well though, because you work with a lot of women who identify as women who claim womanhood. So how is that? Like, I'm curious, especially with your work in physical anatomy as well. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. Yeah, it's a great question. ⁓ because my work specifically is at the foundation of inclusivity and intersectionality. So I really care about not just being inclusive of like different genders, but different body sizes, ages, skin tones, all these different things, cultures. And my work is about you coming back to yourself. Kait Tregenza: seeing your body as an obstacle and start treating it like the haven of answers that it is. Let's get into it. Hi, Nadia. Nadia Lune (they/she): because you have the knowledge versus me telling you that this is the way it is and this is how you have to do it. My job as a teacher and a guide is to pave the way for you to be able to find it within yourself. ⁓ so I teach in a way that is, like for examples, ⁓ relatable example I like to give is if someone is trans, right, and they are born with body parts that Kait Tregenza: Right. Nadia Lune (they/she): doesn't feel like it's theirs from birth. Leaving trans people out of these spaces is also leaving intersex people out, is also leaving people without hysterectomies, right? Many people don't have a womb, but still identify as a woman. And it doesn't matter what your body story is, it's about you coming home to your body and everyone can identify with womb energy, even if they don't have the physical body part. So... if you identify with womb energy, then of course you're welcome in my space. So that's why I always say to like woman and vulva beings. And I'm not so much like raw woman, like that kind of thing. I'm more like woman and vulva beings were coming into our bodies, into a community here in this intersectional way, if that makes sense. Kait Tregenza: Hmm. It's fascinating to me the way that you're talking about it because your work is so pleasure based and it's so, ⁓ part of the reason I guess why I first, I love that we've just dived in. We haven't even started and we're already like in it. So like whatever, I'm just going with it. ⁓ like a small clarification question of like, how do I address you is now like where we're at. Nadia Lune (they/she): So many, yeah. Yeah, it's very deep. Kait Tregenza: Right? It's so deep. And okay, so I'm going to come at this with great ⁓ humility and ask you a whole bunch of questions because this was not the conversation we were going to have and I didn't prepare for it. So I'm going to ask you a whole bunch of questions that risk offending you in some way, but I ask it with such love and devotion to learning and understanding. Okay. Nadia Lune (they/she): Thank ⁓ boy. You're welcome. Yes. You're totally welcome. Yes. Kait Tregenza: So ⁓ my experience, particularly now we have this age of AI where we're looking at the horizon of the next 10 years of owning humanness in a way that we've never had to before. We've never even had to question what is it to be human? And a sub question to that is how do we use our body technology? How do we use our biotechnology in a way that actually... delivers profundity and clarity and intellectual understanding and intelligence that is of a higher caliber than we've ever really sought before because we didn't know that we even needed it. We just thought we could, you know, when people were like, I'm intuitive, I have intuition. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. Kait Tregenza: Like now it's like, girl, if you're not using your intuition, like what are you doing? Why are you calling five different restaurants to see if there's a vaca- you know, a table vacant for you that night? You know, like tap in, your, use your body technology, call the one restaurant that you know has availability. Like there's no more, there's, there's never been a time on earth where efficiency and productivity, but from the Nadia Lune (they/she): Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: body, human completion of this entire vessel that I'm using is actually the thing that's going to save humanity. And so I guess what is fascinating to me about the movement that there's two movements like simultaneously happening almost is like one which is getting out of your Nadia Lune (they/she): Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: gender or seeing gender as sexuality as fluid and non-binary, non-identifying with one polarity or the other. And then equally the other side of that, which is steps so completely into your polarity as your woman, you know, whether that's the divinity of womanhood or, you know, malehood or whatever and underlying both of those movements is pleasure and is body technology and is the pleasure mechanism of feeling your flesh apparatus to neutralize that. Like you're in both these worlds, like break that down. What are you seeing? What do you know about this? Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think ⁓ a couple of things. One is like this reclaiming of the body and coming home to the body intuition, the magic that lives within us ⁓ and ⁓ our body parts and such. I think that's the foundation that I wish all humans had. And I think the majority of humans don't have that at all. Like, seriously, like I tell my students all the time when they're like ragging themselves, they're like, I'm not doing enough. I'm not. Kait Tregenza: Good. Nadia Lune (they/she): good enough, and I'm like, the amount of people who will never ever talk to their body in a positive way or meet their pussy in a way that is honoring it or try to talk to their body at all, the idea that their body has any consciousness, the amount of people who will never access that is like huge, the huge, huge amount. And so when I look at Tantric, Kait Tregenza: and Right. Mm. Nadia Lune (they/she): philosophy and principles. And then I also study like indigenous sciences. And then I also look at Western neuroscience, like the modern, how we mostly like have been sold that the Western way of looking at science is the way to have all our knowledge. ⁓ I believe in blending all of it. And I also then believe in seeing the colonialism of it. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Nadia Lune (they/she): And when we look at colonialism and we look at science, we can see how influenced it is by the church and how the church only sees sex and pleasure for baby making. And therefore it would leave out like, how does our nervous systems actually exist? And then you see that bigger umbrella picture of the oppressive systems and how gender is manipulated in that specifically and how... Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Nadia Lune (they/she): third genders or other genders other than the binary were specifically manipulated and taken out of society because of a tactic of controlling the people who give birth and the people who give like body wisdom and you know the witches, medicine women, these kinds of things. So when I can see the political part of it we have to be careful when we get into ⁓ a way of seeing gender in this like closed box of I only see it this way. In my school, I don't work with cis hetero men. I don't work with cis men in general because they are socialized in such a way that they end up having very different problems and they can create a lot of unsafety in the marginalized groups that I do work with. And so it's... Kait Tregenza: Right. Nadia Lune (they/she): can be like a lot of trans women I know, right? Like that ⁓ big part of their journey is about claiming at being a woman. And they don't wanna be asked their pronouns and these kinds of things because they are very much so woman full stop, right? And they've been denied the existence of certain things in their story because of how they were born in their biology and such, right? So, and they essentially also get so much marginalization and oppression, right? Like we're attacking like less than 1 % of the population in. Yeah, it's how obsessed they are with them when it's like, okay, we should be knocking down billionaires. Like, so we have to look at what is our base values and you know, who do we include in that base value? Kait Tregenza: It's a lot of airtime for the number of people. ⁓ my God, coming back to the Christmas conversation, like it's all around right now. It's like you're living in a society that it, I mean, you're talking about it from a lens, but we could talk about from any kind of lens, right? Where we are so out of harmony with what is actually important. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, yeah. Kait Tregenza: which is actually human, which is actually unlimited creativity. And we're so far from that. And I hear what you're saying about it's difficult to work with cis men when you're so far away. from an open and inclusive conversation. It's like, yeah, we'll be here waiting for you 10, 15, 20 years down the track, but it's not today. It's not the today that we're opening that container to you because what we're doing right now is we're opening container to safety. Nadia Lune (they/she): Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And some containers, I do include men in some of things I've done. ⁓ And I've done like partnered work, I've done ⁓ sex parties where it's co-ed and these kinds of things. So there is different spaces. Like specifically my school is designed around like pussy wisdom. ⁓ You don't have to have a pussy to have pussy wisdom, but you have to... Kait Tregenza: Mm. Nadia Lune (they/she): be identifying in pussy wisdom. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: So what is pussy wisdom? How do you identify as pussy wisdom? Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, so you are connected to a pussy. You are connected to Yoni in a way where you can embody having it. ⁓ You feel as though, like, it's like when I work with cock consciousness with myself, like, I can feel into having a cock and the cock consciousness and like masculinity, but do I want to go and be in male spaces? No, I personally don't. I know some people who do, but I personally don't. I swim more in other spaces. So it's kind of, it comes down to personal identity and yeah. Kait Tregenza: So what do you personally get out of that exercise of feeling your cock and how you use it or how you embody that? What do you personally gain from that? Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, these are great questions and unique questions. I get a euphoria of an experience where I am expanding my sexual life force human experience. It's very particular instances where I can connect to that. And especially when someone also understands and is like receiving it in this profound way. ⁓ And yeah, there's a gender euphoria play there that happens, expansiveness that is beyond me. And I'm very much so, like I take some mediumship, I do channeling and these kinds of things. So it's kind of, I could say it's like channeling masculinity, ⁓ which would be like drag. or things like this too, right? Like we're playing with gender and we're playing with embodying different body parts. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: Who do you have to become or how do you feel in that body when you're channeling that cock masculinity? How does that juxtapose the life that you live every other day? Nadia Lune (they/she): I don't think it juxtaposes it at all. I think it's just another part of, it's another archetype. It's another, ⁓ just part of the existence of me and the expansive existence. Kait Tregenza: Okay. So for you, it's a part of you that is a full archetypal energy of you that you just get to step into and embody and experience in that moment that you're doing it. But it's not necessarily something you had never experienced or don't live with in your day-to-day life. what does it teach you about power? Nadia Lune (they/she): Mm-hmm. Yeah. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I think I learn a lot more about power in, ⁓ like a non gendered way. Also, I've, I've dived very deep into the kink world and, ⁓ seeing power dynamics play out in a very intentional and clear ways. I personally don't like to play with power dynamics. I like to neutralize power. ⁓ I like vulnerability. I like when people both feel empowered and safe enough to be very vulnerable that there's no overarching. And I do that by naming dynamics. So it could be gender dynamics, it could be physical power, it could be skin color, it could be ages. Kait Tregenza: Assuming you're role-playing all these different aspects. Nadia Lune (they/she): You can, but instead I actually don't like to personally in my personal life. I'm not that into the role playing of it. I'm into naming it to know that it's there in the space so that it makes the space more ⁓ disarmed of, ⁓ then there's less power play happening essentially. Yeah. So like, for example, like in Canada, we do a lot of like land acknowledgments. When you do a land acknowledgement and are acknowledging the land that we are on is stolen from Indigenous people, that is taking white people off of a pedestal more so that Indigenous people in the space can feel more comfortable and acknowledged. And it brings the power dynamic to a more neutralized place, which is what I like. So when I play with cock energy, I'm not... playing with it in a power way, I like to actually, and I would say too, like when I play with like a lover who has a cock, I'm also dismantling their power. I don't want one power over the other. I'm looking at how can we neutralize that, if that makes sense. It's like a PhD in like the depth of queerness. Kait Tregenza: This is fascinating. This is almost like. Nadia Lune (they/she): and intersectionality. Kait Tregenza: It's really interesting because it comes back to that question that I'm asking you about. There's two tracks that I see is happening is that stepping into the polarities and the extremes, it's not necessarily a power player or a power dynamic, but it is these two poles that you're holding. And what you're trying to explain, I suppose, in this moment is what happens when there aren't polarities and we're in that. I'm curious because how does that work in universal law? ⁓ How does that play out in your everyday life? Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, I think at basis it works very well. The problems is where we get into oppressive systems. that's like gender becomes a problem when it is made a problem because we're using it to manipulate, especially when it comes to like conservative politics, right? ⁓ So if we're taking the, and we're neutralizing, we're taking the power dynamic out of it and we're neutralizing it. Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Mmm. Nadia Lune (they/she): becomes a much more place of just balance. And so I teach in my schools, like I'll talk about the polarity of like feminine and masculine, but all of us live with the balance of these energies within us. And is it really feminine or masculine? Is it yin yang? Is it ⁓ sun, moon, dark light, right? All of it exists because each other exists. And ⁓ when we understand especially, think queerness is such a good word for it because there's that spectrum of like looking beyond, it's just a binary, it's a whole spectrum of experience. Because like say, use light and dark, right? When we look at just the sky and it's light and dark, it's darker at certain points and it's lighter at certain points in the whole just spectrum of darkness, right? They're always merged. That's why Yin Yang, right, is Kait Tregenza: Hmm. Nadia Lune (they/she): the dots within each other because they always are enmeshed with each other. But sometimes it's more dark and sometimes it's more light, but they're always existing together. So that's more how I see it. Kait Tregenza: Mm. I'm so enjoying this conversation because it's even bringing up the preparation that I had for this interview, which I wouldn't say was like, fastidious, like I didn't research for years of my life, right? But I love to show up doing like the honorable amount of research to meet someone and deeply understand the extent that I can from an online capacity. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, yeah. I felt that too in your inquiry with me, yeah. Kait Tregenza: Right? And I love that this conversation is revealing to me that no matter how much we show up with an agenda or with a plan is that what needs to be revealed will be revealed. And I think what you're saying in this moment is like the, know, especially in a North American context, have all the Western world context, you have these These dual approaches to the world that have existed for such a long time now and it's breaking. if you don't know that the world is changing and ending, like I don't know where you're at. You're probably not here for this conversation. You can just get off right now. Right. So in the context of what is crumbling, the question is, what do we rebuild? Do we rebuild what we've known and what we've had in these polar? Nadia Lune (they/she): I'm sorry. Kait Tregenza: opposites, these magnetic poles where we hold one and the other or do we come into a place where internally we find neutrality on that pathway of it's nothing. You cannot hold everything if there's a charge somewhere and I'm really feeling because you hold the neutrality so Nadia Lune (they/she): Mm-hmm. You know. Kait Tregenza: strongly and I really hope that this translates into the podcast because I think for anyone who can feel energy it will. You've pulled me into a place where I've been investigating these... I'm one of these people that and it happens in my life and I want to turn the question around to you in a second but I'll explain the context of the question first because again I'm like I thought we were going to have this conversation. We're now having this conversation. I'm so here for it. So I'm to be thinking out loud a lot and processing a lot, right? Okay. So what I've understood about my life is I have this investigation of these extremes to come into the center balance point. And it sounds like you have had a similar investigational journey to help you to find. And your investigation has really centered around. Nadia Lune (they/she): Totally, totally. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: body, gender, sexuality, identity. My ⁓ investigation points have sometimes been different to that. And what I'm finding in you is the codes of neutrality for this aspect. And what I'm, I guess, really feeling in you is that there's so much opportunity for humanity to find neutrality. in this but I don't yet know why it's important and I know you know why so will you explain it? Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, I think ⁓ the most tangible way to explain that would have to do with ⁓ colonialism, oppressive ⁓ politics, and the identity of hate and ⁓ pain, infliction on others. I think that's kind of the most tangible way to approach this question, because there's so much identity politics around like, I think the transgender topic is a very tangible way to see it as well, right? It's like, I'm going to hate those people because I'm not those people. And those people are going to attack something in us. But really, that's just a facade of finding your own authentic journey. Like, why does someone who wants to change their body or whatever, like, why is that any of Why would it affect me? know, like, should we not then hate BBLs and breast enlargements or ⁓ men who take steroids? Like men who take steroids at the gym. I used to work in a gym. Like the amount of men who take steroids is actually insane. people don't understand that that is gender affirming care, right? Like how we have a relationship with our body, everyone has a completely different story with it. Kait Tregenza: you. Some people do. Nadia Lune (they/she): and why they choose to do this or that, you know, is typically because we live in a capitalist society that's manipulating us to act and look and be a certain way. But I think when you start to dismantle the politics around it and you start to look at, what is like my actual authenticity? And how do people, like there's a concordance around how people see me versus how I feel inside of myself. And do I want to be concorded with that or do I want to be disconnected from that? ⁓ Like shaving my head was a big part of that. I wanted more concordance of people's assumptions of me externally to be more in what I feel internally. And so once we start to go on that inwards journey, then we can start to live our lives in a way that we actually just Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Nadia Lune (they/she): enjoy it and get to be in human experience. And it even goes as deep as having emotions, right? The amount of people, like we were talking about rage in our previous ⁓ emails, like the amount of people who avoid rage because it's such a bad thing, don't get to see the eroticism of rage and how like a rage orgasm is like so juicy and yummy. And they are missing out on that. So. it kind of comes down to like, how do you want to live your life experience? And actually I was in bed with a lover like at 1 a.m. So, and we were talking about Christmas and how the like absurdity of it because people don't live their lives. So they cling to Christmas as if Christmas is like the one enjoyment they're going to have, you know, very like capitalism way. Kait Tregenza: Hahaha! Right. Nadia Lune (they/she): And when we start to dismantle that, like, what are we actually feeling? What do we actually want to show up in? What do we actually want to do? What do we actually enjoy? What do our desires move towards? In Tantric, this is also very based in Tantric theory of can we have an expansive human life experience? ⁓ So many people are limiting themselves and then politics get really... ⁓ like a cloak over them of an identity that they cling to and that identity then hates others and has to be a certain way. And I feel really sad for those people because I've had so like many incredible vast experiences, especially with sexuality. And my life is so magical because of it. And so many people hold back from experiencing anything in their life. And then they're so scared of dying because they don't. Yeah, yeah. What my lover said, was literally today or the last time we hung out, there's a quote by, forget who, but it was something about like, you won't be afraid of death if you live. But if you're not living, you're gonna be afraid of death. So we have one life to live that we know of. Kait Tregenza: Because I haven't lived. I think as well when you're really, when you're really packed into who you are and why you're here, there's this essence of you that's like, I'm going to walk in front of this car because I'm not going anywhere. I'm not going anywhere. I'm the amount, there was a time where I actually really started testing this theory of like, Nadia Lune (they/she): Don't we want to have fun? Mm-hmm. Yeah, this is what my book is about, Yeah. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: I think I really wanted to strengthen my faith muscle, my trust muscle and my connection to... I wanted to increase my visibility. And so I started really testing the paradigms of like... I guess the... Nadia Lune (they/she): Mmm. Kait Tregenza: I started to this experience of like, so if we're living in this room, you know, to bring your word back in, but it was also my experience at the time. boundaries of the world, you can also call them the womb of your existence, right? And so if you... and I like the womb more because it feels so much more loving and primordial and like I've done, you know, only what's the year? About 25 years worth of, you know, mother wound stuff at this point. you know, just like I got another 55, something like that to go. Nadia Lune (they/she): Totally. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: But this concept of like if you were living in the most loving place on the earth and for me that was like the womb space and not necessarily my biological mother's womb but like the earth mother Gaia. Nadia Lune (they/she): Mmm. Kait Tregenza: Divine Mother, whatever like word was for you. And I was like, okay, well, let's just like see where these walls are. Like, let's see what happens. And it was like so many near death experiences where it was like this feeling of like, no, please move away from that car. No, please don't do that. No, could you just actually do the thing that you're here to do and then like stop testing all these limits? And so I think that for me, If there was an elimination ⁓ pathway that was contracted in terms of like losing my fear of death or losing my fear of dying, was replaced very quickly of like, ⁓ my God, my mission's so big and my purpose is so big and like, what if I don't like fill the space there? that, it was like, my fear of dying was like protecting me actually from my fear of like... Nadia Lune (they/she): Bye. Kait Tregenza: how great I am, like of how big this is. And that was, ⁓ man, I'd rather be scared of dying. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I joke with my friends like, oh, wouldn't it just be so nice to just still be getting drunk every Saturday at the bar and just that was our whole, that was the highlight of our week. And it's like, we got so much else going on. It's just like. Kait Tregenza: I often like, you know, I have family members and those kinds, you know, you interact with people who have nine to five jobs, who have mortgages and who have all of these, really, it looks like such a night. And then they talk about things that they're watching on Netflix. And I was like, wow, that I would love that holiday for a week. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. that piece, like there's a piece in there. Yeah. And I became a little humbled in my marketing, actually, of my school. I had to learn, like, not everyone wants to be multi-orgasmic. Not everyone wants to reclaim their body. And you know what? It's okay. It's okay. I had a big Akashic record reading about it that told me, not everyone is in the life. Most people are not in the lifetime of change. And so you have to just like, they're just not your people. They're not your students. Kait Tregenza: It's sometimes hard to remember when you are like attracts like, right? And so you have this, and you know, sometimes the universe is reflected in your algorithm, right? And the algorithms are reflected in your universe. And so you have this entire like world where you're like, but everyone's doing this, right? Like what? Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah, I know. When I leave my bubble and like, even like queer people, like everyone in my circle is queer and for the most part sober. So when I'm around people who like aren't those things, I'm like, ⁓ wait, like there's other people out there, wait what? Yeah. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. So I want to, I want to, I love this conversation. I love how like random and free flowing is, but I have so many questions that I want to ask you about erotic power ⁓ and really understanding the alchemy behind that. So I want to start right back in the beginning for anyone who doesn't know you, but also just because we're going to get so many nuggets of gold in your story. Nadia Lune (they/she): Okay. Yes. OK. Kait Tregenza: How did you start and what was the point of what puts you into this pathway? Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, so, okay, how did it all start? Yeah, and now we're starting the episode. okay, let's come back energetically into that. Okay, perfect. Do you wanna ask again or do you want me to start from, okay, okay, awesome. So how did it all start? Well, I guess, know, Kait Tregenza: No, we're starting the beginning of the episode halfway through, so let's do that. No, no, no, we're gonna do it. Nadia Lune (they/she): because I work with trauma so much. You can look at your childhood and all these kinds of ways I behaved certainly. these, like, I was neglected a lot, so I spent a lot of time alone, like observing other people. I had a lot of fear. And then at 18, I was like, I'm not gonna be scared anymore. And I went to India with a friend and yeah. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: Okay, we're going to pause. We're going to pause. We're to break everything down. What does it mean I was neglected a lot? What does that tangibly mean for you? What were the points within you that were gifted through that? Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, so my parents worked a lot. I mean, they had like well-paying jobs, but they worked a lot. My mother was very disconnected emotionally. Like she'd come home from work and we'd eat food in front of the TV kind of thing. And she never wanted any type of emotions of anything. And then my parents divorced when I was very young and my older sister was a huge bully to me. She would like terrorize me. Kait Tregenza: you Nadia Lune (they/she): and then my dad was an alcoholic, so it was very volatile with emotions. You never knew what you were going to get. So I spent my childhood really in this like grave loneliness of doing everything kind of myself. And then when I'd go to school and such, I would like want to talk a lot, like every report card I ever had said Nadia talks too much. And ironically, now I use my voice to talk and help others find their voice. so. Kait Tregenza: Every single comment of like why you were a bad kid in school is always like do that for your career. Nadia Lune (they/she): I think. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, exactly. And that's exactly what I did. And ⁓ so it's really, I think we can look at our childhoods and how also like a big part of my work is our sexual story, right? Like how, what were our first experiences? What did we first learn about sex? What, how did we come into our bodies, right? Like how did we experience puberty? A lot of it was with fear. shut down, disconnect. And I always had this, sorry, my kitty. I always had, like, I bought a lot of Cosmo magazines when I was a teenager, because I was somehow so curious about sex and like horny and like trying to figure this out. And then I was really that friend that everyone would come to in high school who would be like, I've never told anyone this, like, I'm going to tell you or. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Nadia Lune (they/she): their first times or I'd take people to STI parties. I'd like make everyone come together and like go after school and we'd all go to the local clinic. like just, I just had a shamelessness around it. Kait Tregenza: Wait, so what's an STI party? Getting an STI or talking about STIs? Nadia Lune (they/she): No, no, no, getting tested, getting tested for STIs. Not all getting an STI. Kait Tregenza: ⁓ okay. Everybody come over, we're gonna contract something together! That's a level of liberation that I personally haven't embraced. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, no. That's hilarious. Me neither, but I mean there's crazy kinks out there anyway No, I'd like round everyone up. It like we got it all get tested like I was just yeah, I was like 16 17. Yeah like Anyone who started having yeah, I mean I started very young and also drugs and alcohol very young and Yeah, I just had this like shamelessness. I was kind of wild Kait Tregenza: So wait, how old are you at this point? ⁓ my goodness, you went to a very different high school to me. Nadia Lune (they/she): about Kait Tregenza: Is that true? You had shamelessness or you had immense shame? Nadia Lune (they/she): I think I was shameless. Everyone tried to shame me. They tried to slut shame me and stuff. But I always had this hard shell of like, I recall a very specific example where we were in ⁓ sex ed class in high school, but it was like someone else came in to teach it, not the typical teacher. And my friends would ask me questions and I would keep raising my hand to ask the teacher. And then this guy made a comment, he's like, ⁓ she wants to learn all about sex. I was like, yeah, maybe you'd be good at sex if you asked questions and you weren't embarrassed about it. I just always had a clap back. It was just this weirdly bold thing for me that I kind of liked. And I dressed really slutty, I love to show off. Yeah, it was kind of an attention seeking thing. yeah, when I started having sex at a young age, at 14, it was luckily my first experiences were so beautiful and with someone who really loved me, even though I really broke his heart. But then I started just, yeah, drugs and alcohol, partying, the queer club, sex in the bathroom, just wild stuff. Kait Tregenza: And so how long did it take you to become authentically connected to your body and to your sexuality then? Like what was that pathway? Cause obviously that sounds, maybe as a 14 year old self, you sound really ⁓ confident and you know, all of that. But like, obviously from where you're sitting today, looking back at that, you're like, body experiences weren't connected. They were numb. There was disconnection from my mother. There was alcoholism with my father. You know, I was seeking attention in these ways that weren't necessarily healthy for me. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yes. Kait Tregenza: as I know now, but they laid the pathway for you obviously to do this work in an embodied way. How... how did that... turn I guess? Nadia Lune (they/she): Totally. get there. Yeah, totally. So what was really interesting about it was I started feeling a euphoria when it came to sex, but I wasn't having like clitoral orgasms with partners and stuff, but I had this like extreme euphoria. And I started to go through extreme mental health issues. And I had fibromyalgia, I had like all this like pain and mentally and physically. I was an athlete at the time too, and I was a dancer and a swimmer. And so then I started to understand that I was drugs, alcohol, and sex were really this escapism. Like it was the thing I ran towards because inside of me was in so much darkness and so much pain. And so I started on a journey of Trying to try everything I went to many different therapies. I went to a Buddhist monastery I went in Nepal I Tried many different things and yoga and all these things and I just kind of nothing really like landed with me so fast forward I don't know 15 years when I was about 30 Or just before 30. I was still seeking healing. I was like, where am I going to go with what? And I was a Pilates instructor at the time. So my background is in dance and movement therapy. I did sex work for a while because also that was a way to make money off of the thing that was like feeding my addiction and euphoria. ⁓ And then I was a Pilates instructor specializing in pelvic floor. So always really like embodied sexuality, all these things. And then one day I was looking for retreats, like I was looking for like healing retreat, and I don't personally like yoga because I'm a Pilates person. ⁓ But then I found this jade egg retreat and I didn't know what it was, but I was like, crystal up your pussy in the Costa Rican jungle, like sign me up, I'm there. So I went for my birthday. I think it was my 30th birthday, I'm pretty sure, or maybe 29th. Kait Tregenza: Thank Nadia Lune (they/she): ⁓ and I went there and everyone was from Minnesota, which was so random, but the teacher was from Minnesota and they're like, how did you find this place? I was like, I don't know, Google. And I had a profound moment where before we put the jade egg inside of us, we were told to ask our own pussy for consent. And in that moment I asked and my body and my pussy had clearly said, don't do this. And I was like, I paid a lot of money to be here. I'm just going to do it anyway. So I shoved the egg up me and I had a full breakdown trauma response, shaking, crying. What am I doing? And I had this epiphany that consent with someone else is one thing, but what is consent with my own body and my own body tried to speak to me and I went against it. Kait Tregenza: Thanks for Nadia Lune (they/she): instantly. That was the instant choice that I had. And so that really started me on this journey of where I am like today. That teacher's teacher, I ended up studying under her professionally. And ⁓ yeah, now I'm a sex witch. And I teach this embodiment of healing for others. So that was really the turning point. and then you start to build the skills and come upon the craft and it becomes your whole life essentially. Even if you're not teaching it, it lives everywhere. Kait Tregenza: The practice is in you. So there's so much about what you said and you know, I've listened to your talking of this story so many times and there were so many questions that I had personally. I think partly because there are so many parts of your story that are very different to mine and then so many that are so similar but so universal. And so I wanted to ask you really universal questions that Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. Hmm... Hmm... Kait Tregenza: I feel like you are... advanced enough to be able to answer with care and consideration and a level of embodiment that might actually make a difference to somebody. Because I'm really, really over people diagnosing in TikTok land and doing harm. So you came from a world Nadia Lune (they/she): you Hmm. Kait Tregenza: which isn't calibrated to harmony, to resonance, to kindness, to compassion, to body system technology, to intelligence, to wisdom, right? You're not unique in that regard. So many of us have come from these really harsh, hard, cruel worlds. Nadia Lune (they/she): Hmm. Kait Tregenza: also chose protection at that point like almost all of us have had to do and you got to a point in your journey where you were able to thaw that protection you were able to take it off to de-armor and just say okay i'm going to face myself now in the facing of yourself in the gentle kindness loving commitment Nadia Lune (they/she): Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: to radically building within yourself and therefore externally to you a new world and a new way of seeing the world. Part of that work was also I assume working against yourself at the same time and your body gave you an information at the beginning of like no. How do you know the difference? You yourself personally, but just like how do you teach this to other women who you don't necessarily know their internal mechanisms and their feedback loops and their feedback systems because everybody has an individual way of speaking. How do you know the difference between this is scary, this is new, but this is the right way forward and I need I need to keep going and I need to move beyond the contraction that my body is feeling with the newness of this new thing versus this is a no. Because I think people really struggle to tell the difference, especially when they're first working out their body technology, as I call it, their body feedback system. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, totally. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: Where is the contraction that's just about the discomfort of moving into a new level versus this is a full body? No, don't do it. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, I think that's a really great question. And I think also as nuanced it is, it's also again, this what you're talking about, universal experience. Something I really like to remind my students is especially why I moved from teaching one on one to community more group, because we all any experience we are having in our body, any emotion we're having anything like that is not unique to us. Our story is unique and how we got here, but we are all human and we're all, we've all experienced these things in different ways. So what's really profound about my school is that when we have like the live calls, people will be sharing and so many people can relate to either an inch of it or the whole thing, right? So first of all, we have to understand that these systems that oppress us were really designed to isolate us. And that's why they made our bodies and sexuality such strong taboo because most people experience when they're experiencing those things in their body, they think I'm the only one experiencing that. they have so much, yeah, exactly. The shame takes over as the control mechanism and to keep them safe because... Kait Tregenza: so I'll stay quiet and I won't share. ⁓ Nadia Lune (they/she): it's too scary to express it. And if you do express it, even to like a doctor or a therapist, for the most part are not qualified to hold that. Even my doctor, like her eyes widen when like I was telling her the other day, like, ⁓ I need like basic STI testing. And she's just like, ⁓ do have a new partner? I'm like, I always have new partner. It's like, I'm a slut. So we have to understand that we're living in a world that it is a taboo and that finding spaces and friends and community is so profound in being able to be mirrored and have the safety of just having that experience. getting to when is it pushing too far? When is it a real no? There's a couple things here. One is the work is expanding our nervous system to understand that we are gonna get harmed. We are gonna do the wrong thing. We are gonna go over our no. We are gonna, you know, take a no that we've said out loud to someone and they're gonna still do something to us, whether it's on the extreme end or small end. But the goal is to have a malleable enough nervous system that we don't live in fear, but we live in enough connection to be able to dictate what we desire and what actually feels good so we can have expansive human experience. I've done a lot of solo traveling and most people would never do that because it's like way too scary, right? But how can we be brave enough to do something anyway? And how I approach that in my teachings is what is accessible? So like a lot of people come to me with vaginismus. They can't enter their vagina at all. They have extreme pain. They can't have sex at all ⁓ and whatever spectrum of that. And I tell them, okay, well, what if we just work with like your heart and feeling what your heart has to say first? What if we just work with the energy? We work with microcosmic orbit and sexual energy and moving that in the body, not about touching your pussy. Cause if you go to a doctor, they're like, ⁓ shove these dilators up you until you can get a penis inside you. Associating that to your whole... Because we have to understand like Western science sees sex in a penis in a vagina in order to make a baby. That's how they see sex. They don't see pleasure as a receptor of the nervous system, just like pain is. They don't see how pleasure actually tells our mitochondria that you can restore. And pain is the opposite of that, it's draining. So if we think our whole existence of having pleasure, Kait Tregenza: Thanks Nadia Lune (they/she): and connecting to our pussy is getting a penis inside of us to make a baby, then we're not gonna know the magic of our sexual energy, which is our life force energy, which is our creativity. We're not gonna know our body in a way where our body has a consciousness that can speak to us and connect to spirit, right? Spirit was taken out of the body and into the church when the church started to get traction and burning the medicine woman. who are telling us like, your body is the connection. And so this going inward in a way that feels accessible without jerking off and shoving things up you, how can we titrate and go one step at a time and then be like, okay, I've hit a wall or I went too far, let's go back a little bit. There's so many basics like in when we work with tantra and Taoism and sex magic stuff, like, There's so many basics to go to that every extreme advanced person will tell you, I go back to the basics constantly. Like always, every advanced person will tell you always back to basics. So it's really this, yeah, peeling back the layers and finding the accessible parts of it to titrate slowly. Because if we jump really too far, we're going to freak ourselves out and kind of retract. Kait Tregenza: Go back to Nadia Lune (they/she): for a while and may never come back to it even. Kait Tregenza: And I love what you're saying about going back to the basics. Because just to bring in another like two extremes to this, because I feel like I'm like really revealing the even the framing of the extreme ways that we can approach healing, right? Or advancement or alchemy or whatever is like. Nadia Lune (they/she): Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: What I think what a lot of people are now discovering and exiting is that eternal looping of focusing on the negative that happened and healing that and acceptance of there will always be forever layers of this healing. And the Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. Hmm. Kait Tregenza: quantum element of that and that science is all catching up to these very ancient technologies that we've known forever but dismissed because it wasn't white because it wasn't science is that we're coming back to what is the the Nadia Lune (they/she): I know. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Kait Tregenza: conscious creation of your life via the body technology yet again the system of Aliveness your body is not dead. It is alive. So you're talking about mitochondria talking about yourselves. You're talking about the intelligence of your being to repair itself along a conscious pathway that you all in like fully aligned to and so there are two I think ⁓ Nadia Lune (they/she): Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: points of investigation that we can go into on here. It's like one, if your head is thinking one thing and saying, I'm just going to quantum leap, which is a very common thing that everybody's talking about at the moment. And they're doing it as a floating head above their body. And then they're turning around going, why is this not happening? ⁓ my God, like, ⁓ maybe I just need to manifest and hustle even more. ⁓ Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: So that's the first thing is that you're completely disconnected your head and a body system that you know follows behind. And then the second thing is if you're looping in your what is wrong with you, you can equally loop in what is right with you. You can equally loop in pleasure. And I love when you say, yeah, your trauma is held in your body, but so is your pleasure. Yeah, your crappy childhood memories are held in your body, but so is your infinite intelligence, your ecstasy, your eroticism, your power, your sexual alchemy and all of these innate skills that you haven't allowed yourself or haven't even known how to tap into are also held here. Nadia Lune (they/she): Ecstasy. Yeah. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: So I'm really interested in the next part of your journey where you discover this and you use it. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, yeah, exactly. So what's really interesting too, and you touched on it in this like, we have these ancient indigenous Eastern sciences, but they were completely disregarded. And it's kind of this ridiculous full circle where now it's all being validated by modern science. And especially when we start to look at neuroscience and somatics and how trauma and things land in the body. When I kind of back it up and look at the basics of science of how our nervous system works is that we have pain and pleasure as receptors. And when we're stuck in attunement to pain, because most people know pain so much so that it becomes numb. You feel so much sensation of pain that you conk out. And we don't know pleasure very much at all. It's a much lower level. So when we start to actually learn and feel safe in it, our pain receptors actually start to be less attuned to the world around us and our pleasure receptors start to use that attunement instead. So you literally, your nervous system, instead of thinking a lion's chasing you all the time, you start to be able to see, that flower on the way to work is so beautiful, I'm gonna smell it and I'm gonna like stop and actually enjoy it versus this like, constantly looking over shoulder rushing, like in constant chaos, you start to slow down and actually be in a completely hormonal difference in your existence, but also the receptors. And when we start to expand pleasure and live our life in attunement of that, it is so beyond just like having penetrative sex as we know it, like porn shows us. The eroticism is that charge between you and anything, you and energy, you and the sun, like literally being able to feel like sunbeams on you penetrating your skin and the aliveness of that. But also it lives within you and you can always cultivate it from within you in any sense that you're in. And this is a big thing I teach in sex is that... If you're outsourcing your pleasure all the time and everything has to give you pleasure or your partner has to give you pleasure, that is a very patriarchal way of seeing it. Because if you have to rely on a partner or especially a man in order to give you the thing that teaches your body to be in restoration, then if you are denying that you can have it from within you, you are Kait Tregenza: received. Yeah. Nadia Lune (they/she): Outsourcing it that it has to be from something else and depending on something else or someone else and so understanding this journey of coming home to your body and knowing pleasure from within you just like pain can exist from within you but attuning to pleasure as the main source of reception of the life that you're living it seriously changes everything from hormones cellular level to just being able to have cosmic, wild, multi-orgasmic experiences with nature, with your food that you eat, or with a partner, or with yourself. So that's how it shifts the whole spectrum of how you live, essentially. Kait Tregenza: Was that a choice point for you? Nadia Lune (they/she): It was as I was stepping into studying this work that, cause there was, there's something about this work too that, and I have to learn it with marketing, right? Like how do you convince someone like you need to be multi-orgasmic and leave your shitty husband or whatever it is, right? But. Kait Tregenza: think don't convince them. think you live the example of that. And then they say, I'll have what she's having. Thanks. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, you do. But also, you know, it's like people want it so badly, but they're so scared because we're so conditioned otherwise, right? People are so shut down. So it's like, how do you convince someone? And I said earlier to you too, you know, sometimes you just got to be like, okay, they don't want that and they're never going to change. And that is okay. Like they're they don't have to do it. But I asked people like, what actually made you like make the difference. And I would say that there is a point in people's life where they're so sick of what they're experiencing and there is something from within them that is calling them forth. And that is, in my opinion, the essence of like orgasm, the energetic energetics of orgasm and how it calls from within your body. And it biologically is doing that because it wants you to be replenished. Like there's biological neuroscience of why it's doing it, but also this, it's like a spiritual calling from within. And like I said too, right, the spirit was taken out of the body and put into the church, but spirit lives within all of us. So it starts to eventually call you from within, and then you start to step into the work. And like you were saying, like the algorithm, either on TikTok or whatever it is, it starts to feed it to you and you start to notice it. And you'll see someone who's living the embodiment of that and you're like, ooh, I want some of that. Or like, you'll slow down eating a dessert for once in your life, which you've never done before. Or, a friend suggests a book and you finally pick it up and you're like, ⁓ what's tantra? What's this? What's that? Right? And you start to just go beyond. and it snowballs and then you can find a teacher if you want and like take it seriously. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: So I want to bring this. Yeah. become that teacher yourself, whatever's your pathway. ⁓ I want to bring this conversation back to the beginning and the conversation we've had on queerness and the conceptualization of the neutrality around that because a lot of what you're talking about has been typically known or classified as yin or feminine style of... ⁓ Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. ⁓ Mmm. Kait Tregenza: that slowness, no rushing, magnetizing that, delighting. I love the word, ⁓ and the imagery that you created around just taking the moment to connect with the flower, the scent, the ambiance, the nature, the sun on your skin. Those are typically things that, know, a feminist embodiment teachers would discuss and just... you know, discuss from a perspective of feminine embodiment. And from your queer perspective, how do you neutralize that into, I guess, the way you see it, maybe not as being feminine or masculine, but in that neutrality of the experience of slowness? Nadia Lune (they/she): Hmm. Yeah, beautiful question. So I think really ⁓ one of the main tangible points here is if like slowing down and smelling a flower and the enjoyment of that is feminine and you have to be feminine in order to experience that, if you're not feminine, then does that take it all away from you? Does that take life experience away from you? And in the political world that we live in with these systems that oppress us, which gender is a huge part of that, it literally puts you in a box where you're only allowed to experience this or that, or you should be doing it this way or that way. It's everyone telling you how to have a human experience and enjoy pleasure in your human experience. You know, if emotions are only feminine, but not masculine, then men are missing out on having crygasms and laughgasms and all the different pleasure you can have from just having an emotion. But again, when we look at biology, having emotions literally helps your biology actually function properly. So you have to see or I see in this way where our systems at large that are oppressing us is actually robbing us from having human experience in general. And then we become so identified with the fear mongering of being against doing something differently and more expansive. And we have to do it in our way only that we cling on in this way where we're trying to deny ourselves of having a more expansive human existence. So in queerness, Queerness for me is not just my sexuality and my gender, it is a sociopolitical identity and a way of living in the world where I don't see things in this like black-white binary. I see all the colors, I see all the grey shades because I want to have a full human experience and I want to include all the humans in that. And we all have different body stories and we all have different attractions and way to play. And most people feel really comfortable in the box of cis heterosexuality. It's very comfortable. It's safe. Love safety and belonging is the big thing that humans desire. And if those are compromised, sometimes it's too scary to go outside of that. ⁓ Or even being in like an interracial relationship and these kinds of things. I'm so rich in my life because I have friends of all cultures, of all ages, of all body sizes and genders. You should see our sex parties, like they are smorgasbord of how everyone interacts and got there from incredible stories. Kait Tregenza: Well, honestly, someone's been very rude and never invited me once. Not even once have I been invited. Nadia Lune (they/she): Come to Canada, you're welcome to come. I'm throwing one in March actually for my birthday. But yeah, like what happens when we create this richness of life when we querify things, even with sex, right? If we were only having that very porn, like cis hetero sex, penis in a vagina, there's so many problems around that because like the penis has to be hard for a very certain amount of time. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: No. Dude. Nadia Lune (they/she): The pussy has to be this amount of witness. you know, like there's just so much like technicality that happens, but it's like, okay, well, what if we just like rubbed our bodies together and like saw where that could go, right? There's so much richness to experience there, but we stay in our bubbles because it's safer. It feels safer. And it's very scary to move outside of that. Kait Tregenza: So what happens if you're in your bubble, not because you think it's ⁓ but you're in freeze. You're in fall, you're in freeze, you're in shutdown, you're in survival mode. Someone's listening to this and they're like, I wanna be where you're at, but that feels. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. Kait Tregenza: so far away from where I could go. Like how do you just start one thing? What about someone who grew up in the church or even just a really conservative family where, you know... Nadia Lune (they/she): Hmm. Kait Tregenza: touching yourself as a child or you know you don't even experience touching yourself ever before and now you're a full-blown 40-something year old woman you've got three kids but never had an orgasm and you're talking about where you're at and she's like Nadia Lune (they/she): Totally. Kait Tregenza: What? I've, I don't even know how to do that. I don't even know how to start. I want that. I'm craving that. What you're talking about in the, in that orgasmic pull towards wanting this. But the shame that lives in me. Yeah, okay. I don't have to only loop in the negative, but like, how do I even start? Because I am overridden with shame. am overridden with sadness, guilt, depression, whatever it is where this woman's story is, you know, we all hold it at some level within us. It doesn't have to be to that extreme. We can be fully liberated in some, but something happens and our nervous system goes back and go, no, no, no, no, Stay here, stay safe. Nadia Lune (they/she): Hmm. Yes, yeah. Kait Tregenza: hide, hop into the cupboard, turn off all the lights and just survive this. And there has never been a time probably in history where our nervous systems are in more overdrive or more numbness or more survival than now even if we are so-called liberated. So even if we're advanced going back to basics right we always have to come back to these basics. How do we step out of the freeze the the the Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. Kait Tregenza: the survival and actually tap into the pleasure system, not the pain system. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, I love your description there, Kate. And I really just want to say to anyone who is listening and relates to anything that Kate just said, like, I see you. I've been there and my students have been there and you're not alone. So many people are going through that and experiencing that. But this whisper that you hear from within you, is worth listening to. It is Kait Tregenza: Mm. Nadia Lune (they/she): worth it. It's, I'm never gonna lie to anyone, the journey is difficult and it's a journey. It's easier to stay small, it's easier to never have sex again or to, you know, just keep putting up with what you're experiencing. It's easier to do that. because our nervous system and how the brain actually works is it will sabotage you over and over again to stay in what you know instead of trying the new thing that could be a colossal failure. But I do promise you that once you start taking these small steps that I'll describe in a moment, even ideas to start, it is worth it and it ends up building up Kait Tregenza: Mm. Nadia Lune (they/she): and you start looking back on your life and you're like, wow, I can't believe it's taken me this long to get here. I've worked with, I had my last retreat. I had women in her sixties and seventies there and one of them had a huge breakdown. Like how have I lived so much of my life without ever being connected to this? And it's because we literally were robbed of this knowledge. So you're not alone. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Nadia Lune (they/she): and it's very real experience and your mind will literally tell you that you're going to die if you're going to try something new. And so in order to overcome that, ⁓ of course I would say join my school. That's what it's for, like literally it's the people who want to start this journey and you know maybe you've done some therapy or you're starting to dismantle yourself from the church or these kinds of things. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Nadia Lune (they/she): ⁓ That's exactly what it's for. It builds a community around it and it's very accessible because it's online and ⁓ it's a good price point, these kinds of things. That was a big value system for my school is that I want it to be accessible, not just financially and time-wise and fitting into your everyday life, but I want it to be accessible in a way where if you want to access this work and you're new to it and you're scared, this is a place where you can come and hopefully feel safe and land and be held. So with that also, then I would suggest things like starting to find new communities that have access points. When I was a Pilates instructor, it was incredible how many people have never felt anything in their body before that have never met their body. but Pilates was what made them feel their body for the first time. And so that was a great access point for me to see people who are like in a very corporate world or like live this very particular lifestyle and they're like meeting their breathing for the first time ever. So, you know, going to a yoga class, going to a Pilates class and it can evolve from there. You start to talk to those people and... They got the woo woo going on, you know? So you're like, ⁓ that person like was wearing crystals. Why don't I ask her about her crystals? You know? And that person wants to be asked, I'm sure. Right? So you start to snowball that effect from what is a good, easy access point for you. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Nadia Lune (they/she): and you can start to find community around it, you can start to learn about it. The book Come As You Are is a book that I tell everyone to start with. The Osho book Tantra, The Supreme Understanding is another great book that's more tantric philosophy, especially left-handed tantra, which is more sexuality based. So there's really great books to start with, ⁓ but it really is about being committed to listening to that whisper from within you and making the time to commit to that. It's very important. It's like, I know it's calling me and I'm going to do it. I'm going to make the time. I'm going to make the money. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: Right. So, totally. And so what if, what if you couldn't intellectualize your journey anymore and you've read all the books, you've done all the research, you're having these conversations, but it's like, Again, you're so open to other people and sharing your sexuality, sensuality, pleasure with them. How do you bring that back into yourself? How do you bring that? How do you reclaim, I am the generator, the creator and the owner and the receiver of the pleasure that I be, the pleasure that I live as. What's the first micro step that you see works really well in that? Is maybe it's not, you know, going and masturbating in the middle of the day, is this or is it? Is it like, is that, is that just the end? Just go and do that. Susan, what are you doing? Just go and do that. Nadia Lune (they/she): I would say that's it, yeah. Yeah, I'm thinking of different things. Yeah, I'm thinking of different things in my mind. And especially when it shifts to like, let's actually focus on sexuality, right? You can do heart meditations and everything to kind of begin all that. But it really is going home to pussy, like going home. And that starts with having conversations with your pussy just being like, Hey, pussy, what do want to wear today? and your pussy may not speak back for weeks or whatever it is, or then you start to feel a little... Yeah, exactly. And also your pussy might have like resentment, guilt, hate, anger, these kinds of things. So meeting your body and pussy in neutrality, being just like, hey, I'm gonna commit for five days, I'm gonna take 30 seconds to say hi to you. Kait Tregenza: Yeah, and she's been ignored for a while. She might not talk back to you right away. Hmm. Nadia Lune (they/she): See if something changes. See if you felt something. See if there's nothing. Numbness is a sensation. ⁓ Hollowness is a sensation, right? Just taking that moment. I would say that's like the first micro step. And then it evolves into things like, okay, now I'm gonna touch my pussy consciously. I'm gonna ask my pussy for consent before entry, whether it's a partner or my own hands or whatever it is. ⁓ And then it would evolve into wand, wand work, crystal wand work, or yoni wand or yoni egg, sorry, yoni egg or jade egg. ⁓ Those are extremely powerful. ⁓ That's the foundation of what I teach in my school. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: Mm. And maybe even asking her like which crystal, know, which, you know, what do I need in this moment? So, you know, getting a variety of different crystals might, might look really well. I remember, I remember when I first started doing uni ag work and I, I got an amethyst. ⁓ kind of without checking in first, because it was new to that whole kind of thing. And actually, I got a really big no at the beginning, and I had to work with Obsidian for a really long time before I could even bring in, you know, things like Rose Quartz or Amethyst or like, let's call them the nice love and light kind of crystals. And it was really around the world. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And obsidian's pretty like strong. Like that's a strong starting point, I would say. But some of us can relate to it more. Kait Tregenza: It wasn't internal. It wasn't internal for a long time. And it was really around creating safety. And I had to be the safety that my body needed before I could like in your, your story as well, right? Like there was a no and you have to invent, like if somebody says no, Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. Kait Tregenza: no to you, you can be like, okay, great. Well, if you, I'm going to walk away or you can inquire as to why. And you can celebrate that no. And you can be humble enough to accept where you're at in your body ⁓ journey, you know? And I think for me, it was, if this were a person sitting in front of me and I said, Hey, Nadia Lune (they/she): and you can celebrate that no. Kait Tregenza: Do you want to go to the bedroom with me? And they said, no, I have an opportunity to be rejected by that and like break up, never see them again or sit down and have a really high conversation as to why. Tell me like, how have I been to you? ⁓ cause I, that's medicine sometimes that you need to hear. that, that is a really powerful dearmoring. Nadia Lune (they/she): No. Yeah. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: journey as well, because when you get feedback from your body that you haven't been the greatest to your body, you have to hear it. Like you have to be going into this journey, being prepared to hear like you might not be the best version that you think you are sometimes. And, you know, that's okay. Show up to that conversation with yourself. Nadia Lune (they/she): Totally. Kait Tregenza: especially if you're willing to have hard conversations with other people. ⁓ have it, you know, be willing to have that with yourself. And equally, if you're not willing to have that with other people, start here. Because hard conversations are a part of life and hard conversations with self are so much more valuable and important to the journey of changing your life than what you'll ever have with somebody else. And in that claiming of, create, I create my reality, I create my pleasure, I create the life that I am living. Nadia Lune (they/she): Absolutely. Truly. Kait Tregenza: by the choices and by the actions and the body alignment that I have. I mean, you're talking about dismantling your pleasure from the Patriarch and dismantle it from the Patriarch for yourself. Who's been handing you the life that you're living? Because if it's not you, if it's not you, then who? I have learned so much from this conversation. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. Yep. And I want to say too on the note you just said, it is profound how quickly and how much your body wants to forgive you. Your body does not hate you. It may seem like that or it may have harsh words for you in the beginning because it feels abandoned, but your body and your pussy wants to forgive you and it will happen much faster than you think it will if you meet Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Nadia Lune (they/she): your body and your pussy in just wherever it's at. Just meeting it where it's at without making story around it and just, hey, like you're there, what do you have to say? And holding that with deep reverence and it will happen very fast actually. Especially when you look at the spectrum of how long you've been avoiding it or in all other turmoil, yeah. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Which I think just in this moment of like doing no harm, if you do as an individual take this conversation and want to go and have some conversations, whether you do mirror work, whether you do just reflective visual work, whether you just hold yourself, whether what do you do, please be very aware that self care is so important. Aftercare, aftercare, aftercare. This work is not just having a conversation with a long lost friend that lives in Canada. I'm in Australia and we are polarities. ⁓ my god, we're bringing it back. It is so profound. I just want to share one story and then we'll close out the conversation. ⁓ One of the channels that I was personally aware of that I was blocking in my work, in my connection work, was my throat chakra and my voice and my expression. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah. you Hmm. Kait Tregenza: And the word wasn't visibility or expression, it was exposure. And that was a really differently charged word to just having an ability to speak from a place of wisdom and from a connected place. The work. Nadia Lune (they/she): Hmm. Hmm. Kait Tregenza: that you do, Nadia, the work of the body. The reason I continue to call it a body technology system is the, and do some research, go deep into this, is the epigenetic programming and the stories that we hold in our body, the stories that are passed down from womb to womb to womb to womb. generations, generations, generations and wombs that we connect. Once you start going into this work, you will understand the power of woman is not just an individual being. It is a constellation. is a womb network similar to the trees, similar to every other system in nature. And what you tap into, Nathie, you said this earlier, is that the stories that we hold within our bodies are not individual to us. We are unpacking and Nadia Lune (they/she): Thanks Mm. Kait Tregenza: we are shedding centuries, millennia of work. If you start to go into this from this conversation because it sounds easy, because it sounds like you can do this without a guide, because it's like sitting in front of a mirror and just having a conversation, please be very aware that you can reach out to Nadia, that you can reach out to me, that you can be held in this work because once you open it up... Be very prepared to completely unravel your life because in the pursuit of having a life that is yoni-based, pussy-based, open, pleasurable, what has to die, what has to be shed, what has to go away. So ⁓ use as your invitation if something's calling you to let go of this, ⁓ be kind, ⁓ gentle and Nadia Lune (they/she): Okay. Hmm. Kait Tregenza: open up your receptors to pleasure in the process of dismantling this. And I think that that's something that Nadia can really help you through. If you want to connect with her, she's about to tell you how to do that and ⁓ you can reach out to her directly. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yeah, yeah, I'm excited for all your journeys who is listening. And ⁓ you were saying about your throat consciousness and opening your voice. ⁓ One of the most profound things a student has said to me, was a retreat I held, was I found my voice, it was in my pussy. So it's incredible what you will find there and the power. And when you... Kait Tregenza: Your voice will change. You shift your center of gravity down, down, down, down, down. Your voice will change. The vocabulary that you use will change. The way that you speak will change. It's very powerful. Nadia Lune (they/she): Hmm. Seriously, and the power and magic that is within there, within you, within your root chakra, your pussy energy, pussy consciousness. As soon as you find it, you'll see why it's so villainized and like everyone has tried to disconnect you from it because it is immensely powerful. Yeah. And so with that, ⁓ yeah, you can connect with me. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. OUB. Thank you so much. Nadia Lune (they/she): at nadialune.com ⁓ or on Instagram or TikTok. It's I-T-S Nadia Loon. And yeah, come join the pleasure witch coven, come join my school. Yeah. Yeah, seriously. Hit me up if you're in Western Canada. Kait Tregenza: Maybe a sex party in Maj. Nadia Lune (they/she): And yeah, I'm all over the world sometimes too. And what's really cool about the coven too is we have students all over the world. So they connect with each other sometimes and it's pretty epic. Yeah, seriously. I've instructed some how to like build their own sex parties and yeah, to find, cause. Kait Tregenza: And then they have sex parties. Nadia Lune (they/she): This brings into your community, right? When you do this work, it's profound how much you'll see everything around you change in positive, incredible ways because the resonance of you changes everything around you. And it truly changes the world. I know this firmly. yeah, such a pleasure to be here, Kate. Kait Tregenza: So far I haven't found a single reason why women being powerful is a bad thing. So let's... Nadia Lune (they/she): I haven't either. haven't either. and multi-orgasmic is a big bonus. Kait Tregenza: Narya, I have... I have enjoyed this multi-orgasmic conversation. am tingling. Everything is hard or wet where it should be or wants to be. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom. Thank you for going on this meandering journey with me of where we started. I love that you just went with it. We planned this to be something and it's what it is now. that I think if there's any takeaway to living in your pleasurable life is that I didn't go Nadia Lune (they/she): Yes. Hmm. Absolutely. Kait Tregenza: of the expectation of what it should look like or be like or feel like or who else needs to be considered before yourself. Everybody take care of your own pleasure and the pleasure will pass itself around, magnify and radiate. So what a pleasure. Nadia Lune (they/she): Let it flow. Yeah. Yes, truly. Absolutely. My pleasure is your pleasure is our pleasure. Kait Tregenza: My pleasure is your pleasure is our pleasure to talk to you. Have a wonderful, wonderful rest of your shedding year and I cannot wait to connect with you again soon. Nadia Lune (they/she): Yes. Thank you, my love.