Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Woman 'Cute-Meets' Guy at Gas Station, Wannabe CANNIBAL

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Woman 'Cute-Meets' Guy at Gas Station, Wannabe CANNIBAL · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Dead and aspiring cannibal killer seek to spot a victim
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: at random to effect a thrill kill. That's a lot
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: for one sentence. Cannibalistic killer, victim at random thrill kill.
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories, thank you for
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: being with us here at Flux Nation and serious x
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: one eleven. How do all of those words fit into
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: one sentence? Well, you can ask residents a small city
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: and North Carolina called China Grove. But let's start where
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: every crime investigation starts with a nine one one call. Listen,
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: consider emergency Peaceful Lane in kind of groove? Was there
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: an address on Peaceful Layne or a ball crane Well Street?
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: And she'd believing? She flagged me down and said that
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend had cut her and her hands were ball
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: bloody and she needed to ride back to the circle. K.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I didn't do it, but I thought you guys who
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: might want to know what's going okay? And what was
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: her name? And your phone numbers? Sir? Great too? Is
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: she still there with you now? No? She she got
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: to her a need to get home and she kept walking.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: But she's crying and her hands and bloody, said her,
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: said her. She said her boyfriend or cut her or
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: something that's not exactly what happened. Joining me. Chandler Indians
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: crime reporter Salisbury Post and you can find him at
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: the Salisbury Post dot com. Chandler is the nine on
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: one callers voice distorted in some way? Yes, it does.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: It does appear that way. Was he afraid and using
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: a voice distorder? It sounds like, I mean, my son
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: has one and you talk into it. You can't even
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: tell it's him. Why would he distort his voice? Well,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: any indication of that remains unclear at this time. Um
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: could just beat it. He was concerned for his identity
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: shake it could have been, could have been. But you
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: do agree with me, and it does sound distorted. I
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: certainly would. Yes, Okay, right there, I smell a rat,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: but I don't know that yet. Let's listen to more
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: of the nine one one. Call them. Just as a
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: woman is bleeding, gushing blood walking down the side of
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: the road and she's afraid to get into a car. Wow,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I wonder why listen to the nine one one? Okay?
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: What was she wearing? I'm looking back because he's walking
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: up for Good road, Um, and he's still going out.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Where was she wearing flagging somebody up and down. It
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: looks like you go on a black shirt and um,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: thanks hear from here? Really, and I'm terrible with that
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: guy that I should have looked at us again, I'm sorry.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Did she say where she lived or where her boyfriend was?
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: She did not. She just said she needed to go
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: back to Circle K to get her car. That's all
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: she said to me. Would you say that, I'm even
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: worried about it. That's all these offs, Colin, Huh would
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: you say the believing with Sria? It was yeah, her
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: ole hand with buddy. It looked like she just got
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: into somebody's cars, got in a white car and they're
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: going towards the end of Goodman Road, towards where Brown
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: Road is, and and she just got in a white
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: car going where going up Goodman poor Brown Road. Okay,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: guys again, that voice is totally distorted. Let me go
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: to Chris mcdun and joining me door the Cold Case Foundation,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: former homicide detective handled nearly five hundred homicide. I found
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: him on his YouTube channel, the Interview Room. He's at
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: Cold Case Foundation dot org. Chris, have you heard the
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: old phrase by Shakespeare? Write me? Thanks? Thou doth protest
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: too much? Right here in the nine one one call,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: you've got the guy who's seems as if he's distorting
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: his voice also says, I didn't do it. I didn't
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: do it. I just you know, I see a woman
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: that's gushing blood. I thought a call when somebody calls
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: NIMA one says I didn't do it. Nobody asked that Raves.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: That weighs another red flag at me. Totally agreed, Nancy.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, t M I write too much information when
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: not even asked. And and he's also got her. He's
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: almost like distancing himself from this victim. You do have
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: to question, you know what, there's more behind the curtain here.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: I think that nine one one call is just kind
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: of a tip of the iceberg, which you know, think
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: about just now listening to that the first time I've
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: heard it. Yeah, I mean, there's just so much right.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to discourage anyone from calling
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: nine one one, but when you're distorting your voice or
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: it sounds like he's distorting his voice, and he you know,
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: let's go to IRV Miller. He's the high profile criminal
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: defense attorney with the Miller firm and advisor to the
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Good Wife and the Good Fight at CBS. Wow, you're busy,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: irv IRV question. I mean, you've heard nine one calls
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: played over and over and over in courtrooms. I would
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: love to kick a case off with the nine one
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: one call, but we also analyze every word and maybe wrongfully. Well,
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: if I could put my old prosecutor's head on again
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: and get away from what I'm currently doing, what struck out,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: what struck me in that call that raised my red
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: flag is that she said that her boyfriend did this
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: tour and that does not fit with the narrative of
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: the story. Interesting. See, I'm gonna pick a bone, got
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: a bone to pick with you on that one boyfriend
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and hands gushing with blood. Those two really don't fit
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: together for me. But let's figure out where did this
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: happen and take a listen to Wbtle'll show you where
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: these crimes allegedly took place. Deputy say that a woman
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: told them she was attacked at at home on Peaceful
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Lane in the town of China Grove. She says they
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: had met earlier in the day and they had exchanged numbers.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: The woman claims that when they met up. He attacked
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: her with a knife. The woman told deputy she was
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: able to escape, and folks in the community called nine
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: one one when they saw her down the road after
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: she had been hurt. Deputy say he chose the woman
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: randomly and wanted to kill her for the thrill. Okay, Chandler,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Amy is joining me from the Salisbury Post. Chandler, Well, wait,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: maybe I've got everything wrong. Tell me about China Grove,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: North Carolina. So, Chinnie Grove is a This is a quiet,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: quaint little town in Piedmont region of North Carolina. It's
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: proximity to Charlotte, DA the Triad region make it an
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: appealing place for will to live orside raise a family.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: It's not very far. I mean, you can be in
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: either of those those big cities within about forty five minutes.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: It's close to the interstate. But it's got a several
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: families that have lived there a long time, more than
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: established names that are there. A couple of middle schools,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: a couple of elementary schools, a couple of high schools,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: and it's certainly only up and up. Because of that
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: proximity to the interstate, there's been significant injection of well,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: light industrial manufacturing distribution centers that are coming and more
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: and more housing to come, and you know, those workers
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: got to list somewhere, and so what had largely been
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: a bedroom community is emerging a little bit more on
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  Speaker 1: the scene. It's got a got a brewery that opened
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: up recently. There's a little bit of a downtown area
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: that's kind of re emerging. But it is still a
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: pretty quiet town. I do cover China growth what's on
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: one of my beats, and oftentimes when I'm driving back
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: after let's say a town council meeting, the only store
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: that's still opened after nine o'clock is a twenty four
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: hour laundromat. So it is a it is a quiet town.
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  Speaker 1: It reminds me of where I grew up outside the
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  Speaker 1: city limits of making a good ways outside an unincorporated
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  Speaker 1: bib County. The only thing near us, and it was high,
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: was the corner store, and my mom put a boycott
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: on that when they started selling beer. So we really
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: had nowhere to go. But long story short is I
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: understand the last since this was about in twenty twenty
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: and there were less than five thousand people living there.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: That's that's correct. About about forty five hundred something in
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: that ballpark, and and a lot of that is it's
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: not very denially populated or concentrated in any one area.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: It's kind of kind of spread out. People have, you know,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: that their own homes that are you know kind of
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: it's it's a pre rural area. It's North Carolina. Is
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: there a big lake there? There certainly is Lake Courrier,
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  Speaker 1: And there's a wilderness park that's rounds that great hiking trails.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: It's become a little bit of a destination for hobbyists
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: like data, fish, canoe, or just spend time outside. The
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: reason I'm getting to all of this, Chris mcdonnaugh is
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: because when you have a woman running down the side
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  Speaker 1: of the road and I say road not straight because
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: it seems a very rural not like a tree line
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  Speaker 1: street with houses in a subdivision, bleeding profusely from her
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  Speaker 1: hands out really in the middle of nowhere. That is very,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: very odd as it relates to statistics. Yes, in fact,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: it's right out of the scene of a horror movie,
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  Speaker 1: right where you envision this poor victim running down the
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  Speaker 1: street holding her hand, and you now high in the
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: nine one one call Nancy to the red flag that
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: you know we're both thinking about here and others on
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: this panel. It's like, what's going on here? There's there's
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: much more to this story right now, where even the
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: nine one one caller is just kind of abandoning her
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  Speaker 1: in the middle of the road to continue on this
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: journey down this dark street bleeding. But you know, I
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: got the sense she would not get into the car
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: with him. That does feel that I got. But hey, Jack,
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: let's hear WBT one more time. I'll show you where
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: these crimes allegedly took place. Deputy say that a woman
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: told them she was attacked that at home on Peaceful
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Lane in the town of China Grove. She says they
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: had met earlier in the day and they had exchanged numbers.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: The woman claims that when they met up, he'd attacked
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: her with a knife. The woman told deputy she was
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: able to escape, and folks in the community called nine
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: one one when they saw her down the road after
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: she had been hurt. Deputy say he chose the woman
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: randomly and wanted to kill her for the thrill. Little
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: did she know that police now believe she was intended
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: to be a victim of cannibalism. Take a listen to
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: more from Nicki Houser. This is where they met and
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: it's just about five minutes that way. That's the neighborhood.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Police say. This knife attack allegedly happened, but it's what
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: this man didn't do that might be the most disturbing part.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: It could give you chills down your spine. It's unbelievable
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: to hear the gruesome plans. I think everybody shocked. The
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Roman County Sheriff's Office says after meeting a woman and
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: exchanging phone numbers out of nearby circle K Wednesday, he
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: invited her here to his home on Peaceful Lane in
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: China Grove. Back to Chandler Indian, his crime reporter for
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: the Salisbury Post. Again, thank you Chandler for joining us.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: So they met originally at a circle K. Yes, they
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: met at a gas station earlier in the day. Okay,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: then wait a minute, Chandler. I know you're the expert
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: when it comes to China grow, but to call a
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  Speaker 1: circle K a gas station is like calling Tiffany's department store. Okay,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: wait a minute. When you go in a circle K,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you're a circle K is like this.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: But every circle K I've ever been in, I want
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: to go there if I'm on a long trip. They
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: have coffee, they have food, I mean food that you
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: would eat, not weird food and a plastic rap that's
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: been there like a month. They have real food. It
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: smells good in there. Shop for things in there. What
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: kind of circle k are we talking about. I mean,
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: it's certainly not not a particularly lavish gas station, but yes,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: you can get something that I would actually I would
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: probably eat in there myself. You know, they have a
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: little grill. It's but yeah, I think I do believe
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: that it's still appropriate to refer to it as a
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: gas station. It's not like a travel stop. I would
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: never have thought of eating the food at a truck
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: stop like a gas station until my son I was
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: taking them to see something. Oh we're going to Okay
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Finoki the swamp, good times. And I got gas and
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: I went in. John Dave was already eating something. He
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: had taken it out of a container I don't eat.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: That turned out to be pretty good. We all ate it.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: But um, long story short. They met at a circle K,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: exchanged numbers. Chandler Indians. Do I have that part right, yes,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Now the three and why they exchanged those numbers was
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: unclear other than just perhaps to potentially meet meat back
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: up again later. So they meet at a circle K.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: They exchanged numbers obviously to get together for a date.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. You know doctor Michelle Joyous with
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: me for When is It? Clinical and academic psychiatrist, author
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: of and illustrated history of the insanity defense, and you
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: can find her at West Philly Morbid Art. Doctor joy
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. So many questions to you.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: But first of all, many people believe just assume that
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: cannibalism means insanity. That's not true, not at all, not
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: at all. I wonder if that's what the dis alleged
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: the perpetrator thinks as well. But um, you know, depending
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: on where the crime and seeking place and where it's
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: being chid, there's different definitions of you know, what would
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: meet the standard for a not guilty by reason of
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: insanity defense for talking in the legal sense. But basically,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: it's not just bizarre behavior. It's not behavior that we
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: wouldn't understand. It's not behavior that we don't do. It
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: would be something related to a mental illness, not just
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: being weird or a criminal or you know, wanting to
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: eat people, I suppose, but also that they didn't know
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: that it was wrong. In most jurisdictions, you know, there's
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: kind of nuances to that, but something so striking might
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: be shocking to you know, our sensibilities. But it definitely
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: doesn't mean in seeing on its speed. Guys, we'll never
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: forget Hannibal Elector in Silence of the Lambs. But the
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: reality is that Hannibal Elector was based on a real person. Actually,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: that is where the inspiration came from to create the
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: character that ended up being the movie, the hit movie
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: with Jodie Foster and of course with Hopkins playing Hannibal Elector.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: That is the only familiarity many people have with even
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: the suggestion of cannibalism. But as you see in the
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: movie Elector, it's as smart as one in the room.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: He's not insane. He knew exactly what he was doing,
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: as he would select his victims, murder them and eat them.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: It's like a spider with a fly. So to say
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: that it is an outright insanity, it's absolutely not true.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Doctor prea Bandager joining US Board Certified Forensic pathologist at anchor,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: forensic pathology consultant, and she's a system medical examiner, Doctor Prea.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, Doctor Prea. The danger
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: of slicing someone's hands is it's incredibly close to the
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: veins on your wrist, which that's how you bleed out
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: if you cut those veins. So you know, the big
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: thing that I think about is she's trying to protect herself, right,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: So oftentimes injuries to the hands are defensive. So I
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: hate to say it, luckily with only her hands that
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: were injured. Yeah, you know, you're right, but she's gushing blood.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: She's bleeding intensely, Doctor Pria Banerjee. How would that have happened?
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, when I cut my hand, you know in
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: the kitchen, I don't bleed intensely. She is, no, I mean,
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: depending on where on her hand she's hit, you could
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: hit a major blood vessel or vessel's artery vein. And
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: you know, during the stress, her heart's pumping fast and
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: you know you're losing tons of blood. Obviously she's freaking
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: out running down the road, you know, in total distress.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Guys with me channel or Indians criming for her Salisbury Post.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: So what we learn immediately is the woman describing gruesome
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: plans that the attacker had for her. Guys, take a
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: listen to WSOC tonight. We are hearing the nine one
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: one calls that were made after a Rowan County deputy
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: says a woman escaped from a man who was trying
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: to kill her. She bobbed down from covered ballbody and
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: she needed a rod. The woman had just escaped when
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: China grow The man wanted to quote kill her for
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: the thrill of it. Details in this case are very disturbing.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: It happened right along this roadway, which is actually called
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Peaceful Lane, but it was anything but peaceful. On Wednesday,
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: I looked her out of my review mirror and I
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: was she doesn't look good. This woman was driving down
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Peaceful Lane on Wednesday when she says she saw a
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: young woman walking quickly with bloody hands. I said, are
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: you okay? And she was shaking and crying um and
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: then she was like a guy in the house down
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: there just stabbed me. I want to go back to
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Joy, clinical forensic academic psychiatrists and author. Doctor
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Joy just meeting someone at a circle kay or anywhere
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: in the grocery store you need to know a little
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: bit more about them before you meet them in person,
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: doctor Joy to make a safe recommendation to friends or family.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: That's definitely what I would be saying for sure. I mean,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: there's just something so like when I hear and read
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: about this case, you know, peaceful Lane, this quaint little
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: place that the other expert, the crime reporter was describing,
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: meeting at a circle k, and then that juxtapose with
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: the intensity of what this person is claiming to want
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: to do or allegedly had had said. I mean, this
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: whole thing is just a little quaint meeting at a
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: circle quick turns into this bombardment of blood and thrill,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: kill and cannibalism. And it's just striking the juxtaposition between
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: those two things. I know, in the movies they call
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: it the meet cute. You know, if you look back
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: at all the rom coms, there's always this cute meeting setup,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: like they meet over the gas pop at the circle k,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: or over the donuts or the coffee machine that Chandler
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: Indians was describing, and then somehow the word cannibal gets
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: into it. Guys, take a listen to Hannah gets w
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: sc very clear to them what would have happened had
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: she not escaped. He wanted to kill her for thrill.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: In described gory details of wanting to mutilate her body
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: and leave it for passing cars to see. He also
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: mentioned cannibalism and a desire to kill other people. I
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: was in shock, you know, I see him on the road,
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: driving down the road here and stuff. But you know,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: you'll just wave and he'll wave back at you. People
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: who have lived by his parents for twenty years, tell
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: me this is not something you expect from a quiet
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: neighborhood filled with young kids. Okay to Chandler Indians joining
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: us in the Salisbury Post, who's intimately familiar with China
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: growth and in fact this very street. So wait a minute.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: She the victim, who we are not naming, what leaves
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: the police back to the home where she was attacked. Yes,
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: that's correct. She told them they where they could find them,
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: and they go to that home and do they find
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: the purp? They do? They found the man and they
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: took him into custody. Who is this guy? Well, he's
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: he's locally went to school right around the corner. And
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: you know it wasn't too old twenty four year old
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: hunter Chase Nance. You're making him sound like I don't know,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: goober and uh mayberry hey, and just worst of the
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: gas station right around the corner. He's an aspiring hannibal.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: What more can you tell me what happened that night?
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: So the details of surface during the interview with detectives
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: or where things really took the sinister turn. It was
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: it was then when he started to as if they
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: weren't already nefarious enough, his intentions you revealed themselves, and
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: his interactions with with them. But it was when he
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: actually got downtown, so to speak, that he started unveiling
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: his larger plan. That's why we have the Fifth Amendment
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: or of Miller written. You agree with that right to
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: remain silent? Oh? Absolutely? I mean because you, as a
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: veteran criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, could have bent this
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: case and twisted it and molded it into whatever you
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: wanted it to be. If he Nance had not started talking,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: it could have been a domestic they got out of
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: control and blah blah blah, spin it out. But he
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: opened his mouth and he stepped in. Let me just
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: say poop. I'll just put it like that. If I
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: may actually add something do yes. Originally, he was only
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: charged with false imprisonment and assault with a deadly weapon.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: The attempted murder charge has not come until a little
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: bit later, whenever this new information that he volunteered was revealed.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: Until he opened his pie hole. Wow, yeah, I wanted
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: to jump and Nancy, this is doctor Banderge. You know,
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I've got with so many domestic cases that end up
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: horribly and I'm glad this isn't one of them. But really,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: I've practiced in large metropolitan areas Philly, Baltimore, now in
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Rhode Island, and I know also practice in Vegas. What
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: the heck like this is some quaint little town. You know,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: It's totally opposite of what you think in terms of
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: just horrible crimes, right, Like I would never talk to
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: someone in a large city at a gas station, but
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: it seems like so normal in a small town. And
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: look what it leads to it. It's horrifying. And you
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: hear what Chandler, Indians is telling us with the Salisbury Post. Yeah,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: I was a young man, went to school riding around
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: the corner. Well, yeah, he was to chop people up
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: and eat them Indians, He's not just some guy. They
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: go to school around the corner. H l L n oh,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: let's listen to more. WSC investigators say that guy was
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: twenty four year old Hunter Nance, who lives nearby. Well.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Trying to help the young woman, she says, a car
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: pulled up behind them from the direction of Nance's house
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: on the dead end street. We saw a vehicle pulling
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: up and it stopped and we saw the headlights, and
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: she said, I think that's him. So I said to
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: get in the car. Just get in the car. She says.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: She drove the young woman to a circle K where
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: they saw police in the parking lot, and that's when
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: disturbing details started to emerge. Okay, I was dragging ingian along,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: all right, Chandler, what does she say happen to her
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: that night? Tell me that first, you know it better
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: than anybody, and then tell me what this guy, twenty
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: four year old Nance, had to say when he got
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: as you said, down down. First, tell me her story. Well, yes,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: her story was that the seemingly innocuous meet up it's
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: called a mat Yes, precisely. Um, it only turned so
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: sinister when they got to his For her account, when
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: they got to his home. Wait, does he live at
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: home with his parents? Yes, and they had no idea
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: he was planning to butcher a woman downstairs in the
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: basement or his bedroom. Well, and as he would reveal
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: a little bit later that the hads and plans for
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: them too. What what what? What what? His parents were
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: also on a list of folks that he allegedly intended
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: to kill after after he was done with this first one.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: You know, I knew you were smart the first time
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: I heard your voice, chanmel Indians. I didn't know that.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I thought he just wanted to chop this woman up
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: and eat her for dinner. I had no idea. He
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: had plans for his mother and father. He also had
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: plans for some kind of the typical fashion, those those
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: folks that had had bullied him and given him a
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: hard time in high school. So it wasn't just the
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: parents either. He had a little bit of a list.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to call it a manifesto like we
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: hear sometimes lopped out there, but there were there was
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: a series of people. Sounds more like a buffet. He
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: got the girl yet, I'll call her girlfriend, but she
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: was not. They had just met at random. Than his
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: parents than everybody that bullied him. I'm looking at him
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: right now, pale white guy. Let me guess Lonard that
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: lives with his parents. Okay, you know what I'm looking.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Looks can be so deceiving, Chandler, Indians. If you look,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, there's a street. Is it actually on
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Tranquil or is it on Peaceful Lane? It is on
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: Peaceful Lane, because there's another street named Tranquil. What is
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: this place? Okay, I'm looking at the photo of the
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: parents home. It's a really nice place. I mean, looks
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: are so deceiving, Doctor Michelle Joy Curtin Lee, certainly. I mean,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: you know, it's it's when you least expecting what you
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: don't expect that we see in these kind of pieces.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: I also wonder just kind of with with what Chandler
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: was saying and this whole narrative. One other thing that
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: comes to mind for me, even though it isn't a
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: manifesto or it's not, you know, that typical narrative that
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: we see with some of the shootings and everything with
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: being bullied and that sense, but this seems to be
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: related to not just payback and revenge, but there was
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: like an attention seeking element to this in the sense
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: not only of what his plans he says were, but
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: how he literally spilled the beans on himself. Right, It's
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: like he really wanted people to know about this, and
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: you kind of put that in the context of this
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: person that was probably you know, quiet, with the list, bullied, unassuming,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: and it's just this whole counter reaction that wants this huge, dramatic,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: you know, cannibalistic multiple killings, and not just as he
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: you know, apparently desired us so much so that he
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: can't keep it to himself. With the with the interviews
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: with law enforcement Chandler Inians, back to you and hey, guys,
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: the rest of you on the panel. Remember this isn't
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: High Tay at Windsor Castle with King Charles and Camilla
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: jump in paper Chandler Indians. So let me understand. Nance
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: approaches the woman at a local gas station and they
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: exchanged phone numbers. He obviously calls her. They get together.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: He invites her over to his home, his parents place,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: where I guess he lives in the basement. Right there.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: She should have run screaming for the hills as if
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: she had seen a monster. But that said, they get together.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: He offers to pick the woman up. He brings her
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: back to his home. And then you were right in
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: the middle channeling before I so rudely interrupted you. She
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: got a bad feeling when he locked the door. Pick
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: it up right there, channel, I'm want to hear every detail.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Sure is at that time that he's accused of going
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: for a state knife from the kitchen that he uses
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: are allegedly uses as the instrument in this horroring episode
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: of this young woman. She is able to defend herself
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: in such a way that she's able to get the
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: knife away from him, and then she's able to get
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: out of the house. We have an uncertain timetable for
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: exactly how long this happened or how long this took.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: You can imagine it must be pretty quick. He goes,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I cannot, for the life of me, imagine that she
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: stuck around too long the moment she saw an opportunity
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: to get out. If I heard that door a lock,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: that's when he had seen nothing but elbow and tailhole
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: of me running. That's what didn't see. But the door
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: was locked. Time stories with Nancy Grace, So apparently Chandler
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: and I'm understanding, she fights back. He locks the door
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: and attacks her with a knife. She fights back, she
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: cuts her own hands in the process, and she manages
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: to get out and run. And that's where she runs
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: into the guy who distorts his voice, or so it sounds.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: Do I have that right? All indications point to the
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: wounds that she sustained to having been flicked upon her
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: while she was trying to wrangle the knife away. Aha,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: got it. So they were fighting to get the knife away.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Then you tell me Chandler inions. That's when we learn
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: about his desire to murder people and eat them. Take
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: a listen to WBT. Deputies say that Nance told them
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: he wanted to mutilate her and leave her body out
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: for cars to see. Deputies also claimed that Nance expressed
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: an interest in killing others as well as cannibalism. Nance
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: has been charged with false imprisonment, assault with a deadly weapon,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: and first degree kidnapping. He's currently in jail under a
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: six hundred thousand dollar bond. And more, it's what Nance
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: told deputies after the fact that's even more bone chilling.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Deputies say in the interviews with Nance, he said he
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: chose the woman randomly and wanted to kill her. Foot
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: for the thrill of it. He also told deputies he
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: wanted to mutilate her and kill other people. He said.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Nance also expressed an interest in cannibalism. Honestly, I've had
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: thoughts go across my mind. What if he had tried
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: to break in my house and get one of my daughters.
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: And that's terrible that I even have that thought. I
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: wish I hadn't, But that is the reality of it
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: right now. This is hearkening us all back to the
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: case of Brian Coburger. Coburger charged and we now believe
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: thrill killed a four young University Idaho students. I want
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: to go back to doctor Joy, doctor Michelle Joy joining us.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: What is a thrill kill? Number one? I guess I'm
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: not sure if there's any precise definition that's used in
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: a legal context or anything like that, but the way
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: he's making it sam in the way I would tend
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: to think of it as something for the pure quote
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: pleasure of it, the excitement that there's something hedonistic about it,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: which you know is even amping at up a level
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: with the cannibalism aspect of how many different kinds of
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: pleasure is this person expecting to weirdly and sickly get
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: from from, you know, the pain and suffering of another
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: person or people. So we'll just start there that it's
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: somehow exciting and pleasurable for him to think about in
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: and perhaps undertake these actions. And doctor Joy, what about cannibalism?
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: What leads someone to become a cannibal? I don't know
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: that we have great research on that or you know,
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: many controlled studies or anything of that nature. But in
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: a sense, I think of it like a like an
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: odd um. You know, we think of fetishes or paraphilias
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: like some kind of obsession um in that sense that
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I mean in that last case with the co worker,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: you know, he spoke about um or other people said
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: that he basically wouldn't even eat uh, pots, pans, dishes
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: that had touched other kinds of me because he was
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: so like a freed that he would become addicted to
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: the taste of flesh and become a cannibal, you know, uh,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: And so he avoided it in that sense. So it
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: just seems, you know, in that case and in some
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: others that we've you know, looked at over and in
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: the news and everything as well as movies, it seems
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: like it's it's an obsession. Um. I don't know if
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: it comes from you know, watching movies, gets this idea
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: in the head or something, but it's definitely not something
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: that we know of enough people to study and have
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: a good sense of really where this is coming. You know.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking this through Chris McDonough, who has been working
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: on the Brian Coburger tase The aspect of a thrill kill. Guys,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut seventeen from our Franciel.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: I don't think this investigation is going to continue, definitely.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I think I think Jonathan's right. We're going to find
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: presumably find the knife. The FBI is involved, they are
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: the strong. I think that the most aggressive investigators are not.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: If he's the guy, you think this was his first murder, murder,
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: possibly bad act. No, I think he's killed before, most
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: likely in the same fashion. Probably so not not for people,
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: but I think he's probably stalked and potentially killed females before.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: If he's the killer, this viciousness of brutality and the
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: butchering of these four individuals, I can't imagine this is
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the first time. And we have the case of Aidan Fucci.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Take a listen hourcut nineteen from our friend Lestan. As
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: you will recall, this young killer picked out someone at random,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: a gorgeous young teen girl, because he wanted to see
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: what it was quote like to kill. Listen. During his
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: police interrogation, Fucci's parents scolded him for posting on social media.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Tristan's body was discovered in a secluded wooded area. She
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: had been stabbed one riden fourteen times. Fucci pleaded guilty
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: to first degree murder. Fuccie presented this handwritten apology. I'm
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: sorry for all the pain I caused the Bailey family.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: I know my apology will not fix anything or bring
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: her back. That didn't sway the judge who sentenced Fucci
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: to the maximum penalty allowable under Florida law. There is
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: only one appropriate sentence in this case. I send you
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: to life in prison. Back to Chris mcdonna, guys, a
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: homicide detective and star of the Interview Room on YouTube.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna, a thrill kill and your experience having handled
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: so many homicide what is it and how would you
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: describe someone who is interested in cannibalism? One name comes
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: to mind almost immediately is Jeffrey Dahmer. He had hedonistic,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: as the doctor mentioned, tendencief towards sheenal, cannibalism and that
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: type of stuff. In the majority of these guys. For
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: the thrill kill, if we use Brian you know, BK
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Brian corbort or for an example in Nancy, and when
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: we talk about this guy's development here, it sounds like
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: this was a at first. It starts out with an organized,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: you know, attempt to get this victim back to this
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: place of control, and then from there it kind of
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: goes sideways for the suspect in this particular case that
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: we're talking about, and because that is the main point
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: this individual's trying to get to is typically their mission
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: or you know driven they you know, they have a
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: purpose right off the bat to control these victims rather quickly,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: and that can be driven from a deep seated problem.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: And the doctor can elaborate on this ten thousand times
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: better than I of seeking to revenge, you know, potentially
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: eliminating a specific type of personality that they feel, you know,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: that they need to get rid of. And Brian Corberger
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: falls into that category. And I think as we get
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: closer to his trial. Nancy, you and I both sense,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: and you've dealt with these guys for years that a
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: lot is going to come out about their dysfunctionality and
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: relationship to their ability to relate on a general level,
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: just to the general public and people around him. This
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: guy is going to be one of a weirdo. People
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: are going to call him a weirdo due Chandler Amiens.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: I agree with everything Chris mcdonnah just said. So he
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: claims that he was the alleged purpose in this case,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: claims he was bullied in high school, He lives with
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: his parents, does he have a job, did he go
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: to college? What more do we know about him? And
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: is it true he said he wanted to mutilate the
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: victim and leave her on display for people to pass
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: by on the road. Yeah, so what we found out
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: after we ran the story, the Facebook comments started pouring
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: in from from co workers that had said that they
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: always knew something was wrong, or that he had given
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: them very off putting vibes, you know when they when
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: they would work together at a at a business not
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: not not far from China Growth, So he would creep
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: everybody out. So I was just like co Burger and
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: is it true he told detectives he wanted to physically
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: mutilate her and put her on display for people to see.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: So that was one element of it. The other element,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: as it pertains to the cannibalism, it almost seems as
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: though it was as much perhaps a fetish of his
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: or as it was a scare tack for that would
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: you know, play back into the control element of it.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: He specifically set, or is alleged have set that he
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: wanted to cut her fingers off and eating them in
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: front of her and while she was still alive, which
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: to me indicate trying to scare the heck out of Okay,
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: I hardly know where to go with that, um doctor
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Joy cut her fingers off and ate them in front
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: of her while she's still alive. I mean, there's there's
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: a thing that comes to mind, you know, stick through
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. In a sense,
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: he's like shouting all these things that I want to
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: I want to be a cannibal. I want to mutilate.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: I want to you know, leave her out for people
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: to see. I want her to eat, you know, see
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: me eating her her fingers. There's just so much going
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: on is it a little bit hard to wade through.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: But what what comes to mind for me, similar to
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: leave to the last speaker, is there's something you know,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: this is intended to be intense. Whether that was truly
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: something that he desired to do in front of her
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: or that's what the narrative that he's you know displaying. Now,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: that's that's I think harkens back to that idea of
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: like revenge and fear. There's he wants to send a message,
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: right even saying leave the body out for people to
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: see in the road, Like there's a message that he's
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: trying to send. And you know, the corollary to that
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: message is that he's a very weird and twisted individual.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: But I think, you know, that's is so extreme and
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: so bizarre, um that I have to agree it either
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: has to be about scaring the Jesus out of her
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: herself or just all of us in our you know,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: perception of him. And now you know, is there a
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: fame seeking element to a kind of you know, a
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: notoriety element to this as well? So I wanted to comment, Yeah,
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: so it was doctor bannerjeez. So I wanted to say
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: I've done quite a few dismemberment cases, and you have
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: to look at this as obviously very deranged in the
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: sense that normally dismemberment is done to like hide the
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: body after the person's killed, but actually cutting off fingers
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: and eating them. And it's at tension seeking. It's not
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: a hiding phenomenon. And the other thing is any sharp force,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: like sharp injury, like a stabbing, flashing, that's very personal.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: So he wants to not only be involved, but also
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: look at me. You know, it's not at all ern Miller.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: I guess there's only one place to go now that
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: the client has said all of this, and that's the
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: insanity defense. Well, let me jump into follow up on
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: what your detective said. He brought up the name of
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dahmer, who basically lived in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in a nice,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: quiet neighborhood, a loaner, and he was eventually convicted of
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: killing fifteen boys, not just killing them, but dismembering them,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: saving body parts including organs, hearts, genitals, cutting their heads off,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: and what he did with them when he was done
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: eating parts of them, he would save them in those
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: parts in the refrigerator so he could eat them on
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: a future occasion and talk about the instanity defense while
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: he took a shot at the act. But he unfortunately
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: made a statement that's reported after his arrest that said, officers,
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: thank you for arresting me, because that's the only way
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: I was going to stop doing this, um dad, insanity
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: defense went nowhere Chandler Indians joining me and investigative crime
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: reporter at the Salisbury Post. Where does the case stand now? Well,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: it's it's you know, it's in the court process. They
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: with the upgraded charges to attempted murder. You know, he's
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: now looking at significantly more time. The last hearing that
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: they had was of four cause hearing, and you know,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: we've certainly got all that evidence of the information you
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: know that came out out there. But as these things do,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: they're expected, it takes some time, I guess. So I
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: expect that hunter, Chase and Nance it's going to have
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: a nice long stay at a mental diagnostic facility for
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: the state before he's declared sane and competent to stand trial.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: So no more meat cutes at the gas station and
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: going to someone's home, someone you don't even know. We
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: wait as justice unfalls. Goodbye, friend,