Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Dr. Jeff Myers: Should Christians Support Israel, Avoid Politics?

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Dr. Jeff Myers: Should Christians Support Israel, Avoid Politics? · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity.
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No topic off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Fierazzo.
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Should Bible-believing Christians support Israel?
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What does that look like as Americans?
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Does that have anything to do with what we say, how we react to what's going on in our
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culture?
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What about the madness at the university level on college campuses?
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What about how we vote in a big election coming up in November?
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Does that have anything to do with us supporting Israel?
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Well, Christians have a voice, and I'm so excited to talk about this with Jeff Myers today.
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I want to bring him in.
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Dr. Jeff Myers, president of Summit Ministries, a Colorado-based nonprofit that equips and
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supports this rising generation to embrace God's truth and champion a biblical worldview.
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And man, if there's a generation that needed to be reached with the truth and to be brought
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up and taught the biblical worldview, it's this one, evangelist Josh McDowell called Jeff
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Myers, a man who is 100% sold out to preparing the next generation to reflect the character
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of Christ in the culture.
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We've had Sean McDowell on this show.
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These guys are just such a blessing to us, but Jeff Myers, thank you so much for your
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time today.
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And the brand new book should Christian support Israel, very relevant.
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Thank you.
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At the end of the show, we're going to talk about how everybody watching or listening
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right now can get a copy for free of that book because it's such an important message.
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We want folks to read it and then recommend it to their churches, small groups, other
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people.
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I just heard of a big Bible study that's taking place in the Midwestern city where they're
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looking at this book for several weeks in a row because it's such a critical topic.
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And it tells us not just about what's going on in a little strip of land in the Middle
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East, but what's happening everywhere all the time about everything, the United States,
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what is our role, what is Western civilization, all of those kinds of things, and why is this
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rising generation so indoctrinated?
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We're going to talk about all that today and get as much as we can out of you in the
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short time we have.
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But guys, get it and get it fast.
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Summit.org and Jeff is going to tell you exactly how to get your copy, but we've got
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to move fast on this.
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We're losing a generation.
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But let's start, Jeff, with your recent trip, I don't remember how recent it was that
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you went over to Israel.
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You saw some of the destruction, the towns, the military bases where Hamas struck, and
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you called it a sobering experience.
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So let's start right there and we'll get to the book after that.
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Yeah, well, let me give just 60 seconds of background.
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At October 7th, 2023 was the worst day in Israel's history since 1948, 1,200 civilians
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who were killed, mutilated, raped, tortured, 250 hostages taken, and we can't even picture
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the level of devastation for a tiny country of 9 million people of what that was like.
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Well, it propelled Israel into war with Hamas, which is a terrorist group.
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And I thought, oh, well, clearly American young people will side with the Jewish people
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because they were attacked, but they didn't.
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They sided with Hamas, a Harvard poll in December of 2023 said that 60% of Gen Z said they
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thought Hamas' attacks were justified because of Palestinian grievances.
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So I got upset and wrote an opinion editorial piece for Daily Wire called, congratulations
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America.
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You've raised a generation of terrorist sympathizers.
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Well, that led to an opportunity to join a small group of leaders to actually go to the
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war zone to find out firsthand what is taking place and needless to say what is actually
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taking place on the ground is not what we are hearing about in the news.
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I've been in a war zone before.
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This is the first one I've been to where you can literally get up in a nice hotel in
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the morning, have breakfast and then drive to the war.
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It was about a 90 minute drive from Jerusalem to Gaza.
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And you realize instantly what's going on because at a certain point the roads all become
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very rough because tanks have been transiting the roads.
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You can see the smoke arising from terrorist hideout targets in Gaza over here.
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And then on the other side, you hear the artillery going off and you realize you're literally
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right in the middle of it.
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So obviously, you know, it's very, it's dangerous.
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There are bomb shelters dotting the highways just like bus stops on streets in the United
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States.
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And they tell us that we have seven seconds.
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If there's a, if there's an a rocket attack, which they're almost always are rocket attacks
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from Gaza.
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If there's a rocket attack, you have seven seconds to take cover.
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So we're issued all of our protective gear, you know, the Kevlar helmets and vests.
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And then we, we actually began the day, a day of exploring, talking to people, looking
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at the homes that were destroyed, just the devastation of these terrorists, devastation
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to the agriculture, even to the military outpost that is in that part of southern Israel.
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But mostly we just listen, David.
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And I think that's the important thing.
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Israeli is, or they, that part of the country have been under attack for so long they have
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been in pain for so long.
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And what they get from Americans is lecturing, lecturing about their moral inferiority, lectures
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about everything they're doing wrong.
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And they just needed someone to ask, how are you doing?
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What can we do to help you?
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How are you feeling?
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What happened to you on that day?
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What are your memories?
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What are your fears?
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All of those kinds of things just to show that we cared.
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When I came back and I'll end with this because I know there are a lot of other questions.
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I knew I had to do something.
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I've written a lot of books, but I knew this one had to be, it had to be written.
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I didn't provide for that.
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I didn't know how, no, I didn't factor that into my year, but I just knew somebody's
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got to tell the truth about what is really taking place, especially to Christians who
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were wavering in what position they should take.
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And that, thank you Jeff, that is due to the biblical illiteracy we see, I mean,
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Barna and all the research you see come out on this in America, the biblical illiteracies
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off the charts.
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So people don't understand the biblical worldview.
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So to those of us keeping score that are informed, we understand why, but I think like
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you, all of us, or most of us were surprised when we saw the protests on our soil, on our
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college campuses, and them chanting things that they didn't even understand the mob,
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mob mentality, they were chanting about the river to the sea, not knowing what river,
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right?
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By the way, I saw you recently, I'm a part of Liberty Pastors, and I saw you do an interview
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with Paul Blair and a great men and women of God are part of that organization, but I've
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got some quotes that you shared, let's start with the biblical worldview, because you said
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in that interview, this is not a geopolitical issue in and of itself, there's more to it,
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and we've got to go back to the Bible because there's so much ignorance out there, go ahead.
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I think of this as a theoretical, rather than a geopolitical conflict.
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If a conflict is geopolitical, it's about land.
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You can exchange land, give a few acres here, take a few acres there, and if someone is
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offended, you can write them checks.
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And you can solve a lot of problems that way.
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America does this kind of thing all of the time in the world to secure our allies and
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our trading partners.
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But in a theological conflict, you can't really understand what is going on if you don't
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understand the worldviews that are at play, because we need to understand what is a Christian
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worldview of Israel, how does that relate to Judaism?
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What is Judaism?
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Is it just a religion or is it a culture or what?
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And then ultimately, what Islam teaches?
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Because the central attacks that are taking place against Israel right now are religiously
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motivated, not by the world community of Muslims, but by a very small group of Muslims who
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believe that everybody who's ever been born was born Muslim.
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If you're not Muslim now, then you are in rebellion against Allah, and you must be forced
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by military means to cease your rebellion against Allah.
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That is what the Quran repeatedly calls for, and it's called jihad.
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So you have people who take that command literally, and they will never give up as long as
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they draw breath.
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They believe, in fact, what God requires of them is to die, if necessary, in the attack
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on anyone who fails to submit to Allah as they see fit.
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By the way, we've got a squeeze in something here.
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You know, we're talking about Israel and the importance of Christians supporting Israel.
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We know this is a demonic at its core, spiritual, as you just said, a theological issue to primarily.
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And they're going to go after, if you have that ideology, the Islamic ideology, they're
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going to go after the Jews, but Christians aren't immune.
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They're going to come after Christians as well.
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You just said that.
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Anyone who goes against their warped worldview and their conquest, their jihad, is that
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am I correct in saying that?
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You're correct in saying that what we call anti-Semitism is a hatred of Jews and unwillingness
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to protect Jewish interests as a people group.
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And so it depends on the time in history.
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There have been times in history where it was Christians, not Muslims, who were committing
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most of the atrocities against Jews.
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The greatest attacks against Jews came through the enlightenment, Darwinian ideal, that Jews
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are inferior people and need to be eliminated from the population.
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And that wasn't just that off-hitler, by the way.
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That was almost the entire leadership of the nation of Russia as well, who committed
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those atrocities.
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And six billion European Jews were killed during World War II.
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Well, that led to the establishment of the modern nation of Israel, which I believe
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is a continuation and a fulfillment of God's prophecies from the Old Testament.
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It just depends.
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It seems like whatever the cultural zeitgeist is, it tends to produce anti-Semitism.
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Well, Christians now know this.
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We're aware of this.
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And it's a major failing on our part if we fail to understand God's role for the Jews
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and fail to protect them at this time.
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So one of the points I received in preparing for this interview is talking about back to
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the college campuses.
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I think a lot of us were surprised that there was, I guess, so much ignorance, but that
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they would go right along with this and support Hamas.
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They're against Israel.
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And so the anti-Semitism really, really stuck out when we weren't expecting that in our
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country.
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Jeff, before we take a brief break, could you care to comment on that?
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I'd be happy to.
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We trained our children to stand up against bullies and to not be bullies.
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What we didn't know is how the education system and social media would weaponize that
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belief and turn it into an oppressor versus oppressed mindset.
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So whoever the professors say the oppressors are, any means may be rightfully used to against
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them.
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And it would be considered self-defense, not terrorism.
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That is what young adults have been conditioned in this country to believe.
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And you mentioned oppressor and oppressor and another quote.
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I got from that video that I watched with Liberty Passers that you did.
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Unity is never the goal of a Marxist agenda.
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It's conflict.
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And this is, we see that in America, though, too.
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We see that they're dividing the Marxism, cultural Marxism, but we want to mention the
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book again, guys, should Christian support Israel.
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And this is hugely important right now in this cultural moment, seeking a biblical worldview
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in an impossible situation from Dr. Jeff Meyers.
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And you can go to the website summit.org, we'll be right back on World View Matters.
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Or if Dr. Jeff Meyers and the book should Christians support Israel?
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Well, the answer is yes, and you can read more about it in the book, but I think there's
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a lot of ignorance about biblical history, world history, and that God still has a plan
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for Israel.
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Regardless of what America does, by the way, would you care to speak to that, Jeff, before
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I get to another question?
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I would like to speak to that, and I think it's important to point out that when I say
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support Israel, I do not mean ignore the plight of beleaguered Palestinians.
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What I mean is that you support Israel's right to exist, and it's right to defend itself.
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You recognize that Hamas is the enemy, both of Israel and of the Palestinian people themselves.
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And that has Christians that God's not done with the Jews.
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There is a plan that he is working out with the Jewish people, a covenant that began
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long, long ago with a guy named Abraham that continues on today, and Christians have
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the privilege of being grafted in.
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But in that sense, we are brothers and sisters with our Jewish brothers and sisters.
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Jeff, can we talk briefly about, I don't know, maybe you can call it a cancer in the church,
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one of the things that some people have fallen for, and that is replacement theology, that
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the church replaces Israel, and this is just dangerous.
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It is false, and yet a lot of people have fallen for it in our churches in our country.
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And how concerned are you about that?
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What can we do about that?
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What we call replacement theology is what theologians usually call supersessionism, and there's
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kind of a soft supersessionism, and a hard supersessionism, theologians never make anything
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very simple.
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But the basic idea is that because of Jesus Christ, Christians now have replaced the Jews
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as God's church, as God's people.
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So rather than seeing Christians as being grafted into God's root, people who are supersessionists
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believe that Jews essentially are irrelevant to God's plan at this point.
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Now a hard supersessionist would take a very strong position and say, essentially Jesus
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died as a Jew, yes, but he rose again as a Christian, and Jews are not relevant to God's
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plan anymore.
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And they point to a number of passages where the Apostle Paul expressed great irritation
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at the particular Jewish people who were attacking his ministry and even trying to kill him.
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But the soft supersessionist would probably be more likely to say, I support Israel politically,
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but from a faith perspective, it's about Jesus now, not about the Jewish people.
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I think that's a problem because I think it misunderstands the nature of the covenant.
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If you go back to Abraham, you know, a covenant is a very serious agreement that you
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seal with your life.
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And when Abraham and God were preparing to make a covenant, Abraham sacrificed animals
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divided the carcasses, and the two parties to a covenant were to walk in between, essentially
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saying, if I break this covenant, what was done to these animals be done to me, then
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God pulled a fast one on Abraham.
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He put Abraham into a deep sleep and God alone walked through the pieces.
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So we call it the Abrahamic covenant, but technically it's God making a covenant with
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Himself on behalf of Abraham.
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And from that point forward, it was always from the Jewish people or from God, through
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the Jewish people, to the nations of the earth.
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The important thing, I think, that a lot of people ignore is that this is a physical reality.
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The covenant and Scripture is always that I, in the passages that I've examined anyway,
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there might be one or two stray ones.
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It's always related to the land.
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It is God's covenant with the people in the land, with the people in the land.
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And the land is so central to, and so important to God, that when He admonishes the Jewish
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people for being disobedient, He says, the land itself will vomit you out if you disobey
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me. But then there's also a lot of prophecy in the book of Amos, which I was just reading
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this morning, a prophecy of, of Jews from all over the earth being called back into,
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into the land.
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Now, why, why is that so significant?
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Because people who are supercessionists believe that the Jewish people or God's chosen
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people or the covenant people, that that is a spiritual metaphor, that Israel is only
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a spiritual metaphor, it doesn't refer to a physical place.
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That is not what Scripture teaches.
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And I can understand why they would do it in the time of John Calvin, Martin Luther, and
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so forth.
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Israel didn't exist as a physical place because the people had been conquered by Rome and
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dispersed throughout the world.
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But now that it does exist again as a physical place, we need to be looking at our theological
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categories and making sure they account for what's actually happening.
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Wow.
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And I'm thinking about 1948, well, how miraculous that was, you know what I mean?
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The birth of a nation.
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Isaiah talks about that.
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Can a nation be born in a day?
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it literally can.
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And it's happened three times.
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Well, Israel was first formed in the Exodus.
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And then second was reformed after coming back from captivity and Babylon.
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And now I believe it's formed a third time.
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Of course, there are people who say modern Israel has nothing to do with ancient Israel,
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but the burden of proof is on them to demonstrate why that is the case.
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Because Israel is a Jewish state.
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It's the only Jewish state in the world by comparison, there are 57 Muslim nations in
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the world.
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It is home to half of the Jewish people in the world.
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It's basic law, which is its constitution type agreement is based on the book of Deuteronomy
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and its national traditions are all Jewish.
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In fact, it's flagged is based on the Jewish prayer shawl that Jesus himself wore.
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So I want to talk about the land that you mentioned just by looking at a map.
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Am I too simple?
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When I look at a map, I see this tiny speck the size of New Jersey that's Israel and
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the coalition of hostile or Muslim nations and dictatorships all around the land mass.
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So this is not, as you said earlier, it can't be about the land.
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And if Israel are, if they're a bunch of occupiers, they're, they're the worst at occupying
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that I've ever seen.
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Can you speak a little bit more about the land and how, why people can look at the map
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and still believe the propaganda and the talking points?
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Israel is surrounded on all sides by people who are unfriendly or who are outright enemies.
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I counted this up one time in Israel's fighting a war essentially on seven different fronts
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at the present time.
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Now when the nation of Israel was formed in 1948, the United Nations plan was there
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would be two nations formed and a lot of people don't know this.
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One would be a Palestinian nation that would be for Palestinian Arabs because up until
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the 1940s, anybody who was lived in Palestine, which is what the Romans called it after they
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abolished the state of Israel, anybody who lived there would be Palestinian.
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But the Arab, an Arab group decided, no, only Arabs can be Palestinians.
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Well, the United Nations said, okay, fine, well, you establish a nation too.
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We'll give you Judea and Samaria, beautiful part of the country.
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It's the best land there.
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We'll give that to you.
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The Palestinian leadership refused to form it and they've refused every time since in
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1967, 2000 and 2008, not only that, but they encouraged the Palestinian people, the Arabs,
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to rise up against the Jews and kill them.
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And five different armies came into that nation in 1948.
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No one expected the Jews to survive using the old Czechoslovakian weapons that they had,
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but they did survive.
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In fact, they were able to carve out the land for themselves and demonstrate that they
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can defend it.
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That's an important part of a nation.
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You can't just, you know, to say, this is now a nation that the people have to be able
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to support it and defend it in order for it to be legitimate.
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So going back to Genesis 12, I don't understand how you can read.
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For example, I will make you a great nation, God speaking to Abram, and I will bless you
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and make your name great so that you will be a blessing.
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In verse three, I will bless those who bless you and him who dishonors you, I will curse.
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And in you, all the families of the earth shall be blessed.
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So it mentions, I will make you a great nation.
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And so now from our context here in North America, in the United States, when it comes to supporting
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Israel, does that apply to us in principle that God will bless or maybe, you know, protect
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America to a certain extent, if we support or if we bless Israel, what do you think, Jeff?
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David, I know a lot of people say that and I have friends who are on different sides of
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that question, a very good friend of mine who's really good on worldview issues says,
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I don't believe that it's true that God, you know, that God is obligated to bless America
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if we just stand behind Israel.
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And I understand that point.
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I think the larger point for Christians is really twofold.
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First, Galatians chapter three, the Apostle Paul specifically references that covenant
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with Abram later renamed Abraham by God and says those who believe in Jesus are blessed
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along with Abraham, the man of faith, that what Abraham was given was the gospel.
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So God has formed a large nation of his people all over the world, some of whom are a tiny
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minority in the nations in which they reside, but this specific piece of land, we cannot
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be nostic about this.
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We can't say it's only spiritual.
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It is actually a physical reality, a place in history.
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The Jewish people are the only ones who have ever formed a nation state in that land.
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Jerusalem has only ever been the capital of one nation and that is Israel.
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So in chapter nine, we were running out of time.
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We have under five minutes already.
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I knew this would go by fast, Jeff Myers, is Israel's war against Hamas just because part
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of the argument is do or the question, do they have a right to defend themselves?
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And there's another, I think it's a chapter talking about the death that rape and death
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cult that may have been a section of your book or a chapter, but you said in another interview,
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Israel has done more to protect the lives of civilians than any other nation in history.
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Who does that?
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I mean, Hamas doesn't care.
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I mean, they're killing civilians.
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Go ahead.
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Yeah, don't take my word for it.
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That is from John Spencer, who's America's leading expert on protecting non-combatants in
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a time of war.
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So this is part of the Christian tradition.
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If you want to understand a biblical worldview of an impossible situation, you have to understand
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what Scripture actually teaches.
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You have to understand the counterfeit worldviews that are at play, but then you also want to
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look back at Christian tradition because there are Christians, in this case, Augustine
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of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas, who brilliantly helped the world understand that even wars
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have rules that you cannot, any individual person cannot declare a war.
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It has to be a legitimate nation.
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They have to have a just cause.
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In other words, they have to have been attacked first and then they need to clearly outline
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what their response is going to be.
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They can't just be, we're going to annihilate all of the people who are associated with
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our enemy.
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It has to be the attacking and destroying of that enemy.
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And then there are rules even there, military necessity, distinction, proportionality, those
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kinds of things.
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All of that is from the biblical tradition.
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So I go into detail about that and everybody who goes to summit.org, you can go to summit.org
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slash Israel, in fact, to get your free copy of the book.
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If you do that, you'll see there's a chapter on genocide because that's the main accusation
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that's being made against Israel, that Israel's committing genocide.
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I look at those claims in detail and offer dozens of different pieces of evidence to show
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that that claim is simply not true.
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Another chapter of the propaganda war, which we kind of touched on a little bit, how not
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just, it's not just young people on college campuses that are already indoctrinated, if you
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go through the K through 12 and then go to university, oh my goodness.
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But it's kind of crept into the church too, this propaganda.
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And there's a poll on your website, too, Jeff, at summit.org that American voters are
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souring on higher education.
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My comment is, well, it's about time, I hope there's more because that's a huge problem
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in America, just education.
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But so how can people get a free copy of this important book?
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David, all you need to do is go to summit.org slash Israel.
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I will send you a copy of the book.
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And when you get it, if you think that other people need to have that message, you can
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get back in touch with us and get more copies of the book, that is the important thing is
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that we get the word out.
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I want believers to not be taken captive by hollow and deceptive philosophies based
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on human tradition, based on the elements of the world rather than Christ, Colossians
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2.8.
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And so on this particular issue, I think this is a counterpoint to a lot of the things
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that we're hearing from the leftist progressives, located largely in American universities who
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have found common cause with this apocalyptic rape and death cult called Hamas.
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And friends, you will also be curious to check out another very important topic on summit.org.
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Should Christians avoid politics?
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And it says debunking for myths that keep Christians sidelined.
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I really encourage you guys to check that out because we've got too many believers that
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do not vote, that do not have a voice, and they're not loving their neighbor, I think,
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by just saying, all right, I'm not going to vote, you know, we're not going to, because
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that has supporting Israel is part of voting for what administration takes over in America.
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But that's for another time, Jeff Myers.
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Thank you for your voice.
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Thank you for summit and all the work you do.
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We appreciate your time today.
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Thank you, David.
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Enjoyed being with you.
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All right.
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Praise God.
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Make sure you go to summit.org and please share it to so important and running out of time.
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God bless you and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.