Latest / The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee / No More Scraps of Paper with Updated Doses & Missed Calls: An App to Track Treatment Instructions

Transcript

No More Scraps of Paper with Updated Doses & Missed Calls: An App to Track Treatment Instructions · The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Home of Fertility.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: A space, a real conversation.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: An expert insight about fertility, healing, and creating family.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Liz Walker.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm Helen Zay.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: We are two mums who've walked this path and are passionate about supporting you on your journey.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Emotionally, physically, and spiritually.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about it all.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Fertility treatment, elliptic support, relationship, mindset, and the emotional high hand.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes the missing piece lies in someone else's story, in the quiet wisdom of the body, or in a breakthrough that's finally made for you.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: We are so glad you are here.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Let's dive in.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome back.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: Our guest today is Dr.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: Carolyn Fiddler, a medical doctor and a mother of a 20-month-old daughter who was conceived by IVF.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: We know that IVF can be overwhelming in keeping track of appointments, self-injections, procedures, and wanting to get it right, even when you get those ad hoc phone calls in the most worst possible times.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: Carolyn developed the Cycle app, Cycle Guide app to be used during fertility treatment, and it's accessible via phone.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: It is an integrative app that can be used by yourself or together with your treating doctor.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: This is valuable in many situations, including in metropolitan areas, rural areas, and also community groups.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: It is available in Australia, New Zealand, and excitedly about to launch in the UK.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot wait to get the conversation started about this app and also Carolyn's experience in leading to creating such an awesome, friendly, in-your-pod resource.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Helen.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: Great to be here.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yay.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Carolyn.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Tell me about your IVF experience that led you to develop the cycle guider.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was about in my late 30s when I started looking into IVF, and I found it a bit hard to even confront it at that point.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I came back to it kind of later into my 30s.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I started with my first doctor with an egg collection and went on to multiple egg collections while I waited for my known sperm donor to for his sperm to go through quarantine for a couple of months.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then ensued multiple embryo transfers, and I just felt like I wasn't really getting anywhere.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I I changed doctors.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thankfully, I hadn't defrosted any of my frozen eggs.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really glad that I sought a second opinion because I felt that that doctor was, you know, just kind of doing the same thing and we weren't getting anywhere.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I've had experience with different clinics and different doctors.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then we took a few different approaches, changed things, and got a bit more to the point.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I ended up having uh some unsuccessful embryo transfers, but then I had a successful embryo transfer of a genetically normal embryo, which is now very fortunate to have little baby uh Alice.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've been through IBF and I'm undergoing it again in the future to hopefully have a sibling for Alice.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: What led me to develop the app was I was surprised that despite all of the high-tech equipment, all of the years of learning that all the staff have done, you know, behind the scenes, the embryologists, the nurses, all the fancy equipment and how much was writing that I was still confronted with kind of overly photocopied pieces of paper that I was carrying around with me, whether it was doing jobs in rural Victoria, doing shift work, injections at servos, you know, on the way back from country Victoria.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was carrying this kind of getting increasingly tattered piece of paper with me and getting phone calls from the well-meaning and very informative nurses as I had, you know, each ultrasound and blood test to see how my follicles were growing.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: They would call anytime during business hours, usually in the afternoon.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I would be at a you know, visiting a patient at home or on the ward and have to identify myself, understandably, with three points by D, but it was it's quite hard to whisper sometimes and find a little nook or cranny in a ward.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that was quite awkward.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then what do you write on?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: You tend to you know, hey, scribble something down, you know, and it can be it's it's vital information, whether it's you need to come back for another optional blood test, or whether it's to tell you the trigger that has to be given 36 hours before your egg collection.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: So very vital information, or shorten the duration of say, you know, I took Grenadole F and Pergavirus, you know, or Gallutran, you know, shorten that.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, do a double trigger this time, not a single.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, this is it could be life-changing uh instructions, and yet it's still fairly basic.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now paper has a role, but I think in our modern era we need something more portable, uh more accurate, and uh something that you know it's is is more direct.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love to like like mind-blowing that even as we uh slow this down and consider the impact on a person's well-being and nervous system, that they are trying to get it right, not knowing when they were going to get that phone call, not knowing what kind of changes needs to be done to the treatment protocol, and to be ready all the time with pen and paper to be able to write down what that change is in a script and in a protocol.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think we have this uh situation in any other industry, to be honest with you.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because I even I even know, say, with my with with my mother uh who isn't is an elderly woman now, and like I organized a Webster pack for her recently, and that was uh such a simple process to be able to sit down with her GP, pull up the records, write it all down, keystroke it all down, not even write it all down, keystroke it down, yes, go directly to a pharmacist, and then a Webster pack is delivered with all the instructions done.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not like we don't have the infrastructure in other areas of medical.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm and we're speaking to you with the title of doctor as well.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: So you are a patient and you are a doctor as well.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's true.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I can only imagine the point in time of having to transfer this information and get it right, then have the angst of not losing it, then have the angst that yes, you've transcribed it right, then if it doesn't work, question whether you wrote it right in the first place.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's like Russian roulette.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I think there's definitely capacity to improve our patients get information and to make sure that it's simple.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Now, some some clinics do have their own apps, and you know, both here and overseas, whether it's their own app or standalone or integrated.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: But what struck me each time was that it needed to be as simple as possible.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's no point, and I know this from say my experience, as you've said, in the hospital system, in various states of Australia, rural versus country, you know, and metropolitan and in community settings at home, you know, there's a lot of incompatible systems.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And but if you have an electronic medical record or or system, it's no, it's good to have it.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's so difficult, you might as well use paper.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what people revert to.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're going to have an electronic system, it's got to be streamlined, a bit like the example with your mother and the Webster pack.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're right, there's already systems in place for things being integrated.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think to do justice to uh all of the fertility staff's know-how and experience and hard work, and also the patients' you know, best attempts that they've done their very best and done things as accurately as possible.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even me as a doctor, sometimes I knew it wouldn't really have made much difference.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I watched the clock with 30 and I knew it was 36 hours prior.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew if I did it two minutes to 10 p.m.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: it wouldn't make any difference.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: But you're still watching the clock.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or there's a little bit of medication in the hub of a needle, you know, I'd kind of re-inject myself, which of course you're not meant to do, but it kind of gets the better of you a bit.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you inject yourself early in the morning because you have to, then you're looking in your sharp spin, did I give everything?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I started to write the the time that I'd given the medication and ticked it off.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I felt kind of good that I'd done it.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And if I'd fallen asleep, if you'd have a business hours job and you're doing, say, you know, or galutran at 6 a.m., then on the weekend you might not wake up at the same time, but you have to, and then you fall asleep and you know, your mind starts starts playing tricks.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's a little bit that it ain't broke, don't fix it.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's also a bit people tend to be impressed, uh, and I'm one of them, when things look complicated.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: You think, oh, that's fancy, gosh, that must be good.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really get it, must be good.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, there's something about creating something simple that is really uh really effective.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I looked at uh initially I thought, am I crazy?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Should I really do something like this?
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I like the old Nokia brick, you know, kind of you drop it in water and it still works.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I really felt that there had to be something better.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I approached multiple app companies and I went with appetizer apps in Richmond, Victoria, because I liked how they came across and the previous apps that they did.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so we worked with sketches, and one of the first days, you know, came along and they were kind of all, you know, young and trendy and creative.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I brought along my, you know, some of my bags that I'd had all my medication in and obviously taken all the sharks out.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of just emptied it all and had all the instructions.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: They said, oh my gosh, you know, this is this is overwhelming.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we worked with sketches, and it was actually harder to make it simple because you have to be quite disciplined in it's really tempting to add this other little other little bit.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: But what I wanted to hone in was the treatment instructions because I really felt that that was the hardest part.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there's other ways to have, you know, um, your uh whether it's your consent forms, which with the company I go with, you have to print them out and sign them and scan them back anyway.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And in some cases, you have to bring the original to the actual procedure.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that you know there's other apps that integrate things, these things, but not everyone except an electronic signature.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: So is that is that completely helpful?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And some of these consent forms, I know because I've just done the other one the other day for can for uh donut eggs, it's quite complicated.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, and in the event of your death, what would you like to happen?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure I want to read that on my little phone.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: I want to, I want to look at that and really think about it.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I also want to write on the side, uh, I don't have a partner, but my family can use it.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not quite sure how that works on on your phone uh without writing that and and scanning it in.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate that there's apps out there that do a bit of everything, but we've got to think what's what's best for the patient and really what's best for the star, because I think my app, I think it covers both, because I've been on both sides, and I know that uh if you focus on the thing that's really difficult, then then you're probably gonna design the right thing.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted a list, you know, even when you call up, you know, I was changing one of my dad's ophthalmology appointments the other day, you know, it was press one if you need to change your appointment or pay a bill, and then I went one and then it said press one if you want to do your bill or change your appointment.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, why have I gone through that?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Why didn't they just have one and two?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why early on I didn't just have everything as appointments and medication.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, I want day one and I want ultrasound and blood test.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want people to have to press appointment and then it's blood test ultrasound.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've got things that it's got to be, it's got to be smart and it's got to be as minimal steps as as as we can.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: So there are a lot of flow charts, there's a lot of something called Figma, you know, which basically looks like a program, computer program with all like it's uh you're playing cards, you know, because they're all laid out.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it was pretty exciting to get it to the um to the pro forma stage and see it in in real life and have a, you know, we've got a whole month's view because as most of us know have been through it, your fertility cycle, regardless of what you're having, is generally two weeks long.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I know sometimes mine have gone three weeks long.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And on my table that I had, I had to keep adding little little rows with wonky lines uh to make it longer.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's you know, that that's pretty tacky.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I wanted to make it as as simple as possible.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got a whole month's calendar and then you've got your tasks under it.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: I want to see everything.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't just want a few days or a week at the top.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: I want everything in front of me and I want it in context because people have got a lot going on in their lives.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: I also wanted if I tick that I give them the medication and I accidentally did, I can untick it.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's not make it so much that you have to be, you know, kind of completely perfect all the time.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I want the medication so it's not all overwhelming, you know, root of administration, dose, units.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you just write it in your own words.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I want the procedure so that you've got things that come up that I had to think about.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was really handy to bring my Sharps container to the procedure so that they could dispose of it.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as I was saying, some of those medication forms, you did have to hand in the original.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, if you don't have the original, it doesn't matter if you're fasted and ready for your egg collection, you you need to have it there.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it was during COVID times as well.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a whole other uh layer that you needed as well.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: So and so it's it's a standalone app, as you said, Helen.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh in more recent times, we've also added an integrated, so it's essentially the same app, but because it's so simple, information say, for example, if a certain IVF company had your treatment instructions in Salesforce, then that information could be sent directly to your phone.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that I think it's great to use a standalone because I think clinics are often a bit reticent to try new things.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it would be great if people at least try it, download it, even if they encourage their nurses and their doctors to try and download it and don't like it, that's fine.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: But it is free to then integrate it and you can have instructions sent directly to you.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And as you said, Helen, that takes away that uncertainty of has the patient got the correct treatment instructions.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, it's you know, you're scribbling your handwriting, you're a bit anxious, you know, have I have I, you know, transcribed these instructions properly.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: So really uh I can't see a reason for clinics not to to at least try it out because I think it, I think it is more direct and modern.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it's deliberately simple.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the beauty is is it doesn't have the embryos growing like some apps do because I don't know about you, but I would get nothing else done if I was watching my embryos growing.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, many of mine have have arrested, and I I'm not sure you want to be be watching that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I think you've got to it it does the basics and it does it really well.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I I know that one.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, not from watching embryos grow, but even when the apps came out, when you had children in childcare and you can actually see what your child was doing every minute of the day, that is counterproductive because if you are naturally at home with your family, you are not watching your child 24-7 plus trying to do your job or heavy machinery, yes.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so we can really trip ourselves up and get ourselves into such a state of anxiousness that it is counterproductive in keeping the body stress-free.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: And we all know what that level of stress can do to our hormones, implantation, uh, early pregnancy, yes, uh, all of it.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like it just doesn't stop because you're pregnant, and we know that when we've had a fertility journey that has lasted a while, I find that that built-up compounded worry and stress and loss just gets transferred over into the pregnancy.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: You're right, Helen, and I was surprised how anxious I was, to be honest.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it would be like it's there, and I think I was pretty much anxious until mum and I often reflect when we heard Alice cry when they took her out at the Caesar, you know, until then I wouldn't, I still was not sure how things would go, which sounds a little illogical, but you're right.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's because then you're high risk, you're kind of labeled as high risk.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh understandably, you're, you know, you're older and sometimes your blood pressure's a bit high and that kind of thing, but you're right, it does continue on and come sometimes for quite some time.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um, so yeah, it's quite quite an insight.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have my clients.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's some of my clients that when they are pregnant, they say to me, like I have something that I call, you know, tongue-in-cheek roadside roadside assistance.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm actually available on the phone, and sometimes I do stop on the side of the road.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: I there's a message or a call or what have you.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I will stop and I'll take it because when we try and appease someone's nerves and concern in real time, yes, it's a lot more holistic, it's a lot more beneficial than waiting, like you're throwing like you're sitting in front of a pokey machine waiting for your number to come up.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: That question answered or that piece of information coming through, it does grit at your nervous great at your nervous system.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Now, Carolyn, I can also imagine that by having this um uh having your cycle guide app as a companion and something you can have in your bag in your pocket, yes, even when you do change, and if you do decide, excuse me, to change a fertility provider, you've got that history.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: It is much easier for you to advocate for yourself, yes, and to fill in some of those gaps.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I found it quite handy to it's it's a good point you make.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: It stays with you, whereas you might change, like I did, and like people do, or some doctors, you know, change fertility companies that they work for.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's not uncommon as well.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: You might move for work or whatever.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you're running, I used to find it quite helpful that I knew after a collection I'd probably properly menstruate and have a day one about six weeks later.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: So usually about a week later, you'd have a withdrawal bleed.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then about, you know, say five or so weeks later, I'd know I'd have another day one for another egg collection.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that helped kind of predict and warn the workplace, which is obviously probably another topic in itself.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: How open are you?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I've done mixed things and had mixed responses.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh sometimes it might be easier to just tell people, but certainly you can get some pretty, pretty odd responses, and it's yeah, it's a bit of a minefield in itself.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: But at least you would have a bit of certainty about predicting when you might have the next egg collection.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right, so you've always got it with you, so you can at least show the next doctor this is what I tend to look like.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Now, my app is not a cycle tracker, but it's something I've considered putting into it.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: But to be honest, there's a million cycle trackers out there, and you know, so you can easily use one of them if you want to track your cycle.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can still put day one and put it in my app, but really there's a lot of cycle trackers out there.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, I'm sure they can do the job that you you need done.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes even IBF companies have their own calculator on their website.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: So whereas this focuses on on the really sticky part, which I think, you know, you do a lot of treatment at home relying on you.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And although we all know it, I think it's not something that's kind of emphasized a lot.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you're right, Helen, about the well-being.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's there's a lot you can't control, there's a lot you can control.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I've heard about decision fatigue, and certainly it's it's certainly there, and you know, it depends on your approach by your doctor and uh how whether they kind of sit on the fence a bit or give you a stronger impression, and maybe sometimes there's not really a right or wrong decision, and that's when it gets really tricky, and then you can regret it because they're kind of do you defrost or not defrost?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's just no real in the middle.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: What if you're not going to be compatible with your don't sperm donor?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know when I had my 41 frozen eggs, I'd hit it half and half, but then that was, you know, well, not quite half enough, but that was a bit of a more expensive decision because you had to pay for it twice.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: But then I was a bit scared that if I wasn't compatible, then I've just lost all of all of my frozen eggs, which we'd work so hard to get.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: So there's there's no right or wrong, and there's things beyond the doctors and nurses and all of our controls.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: So but if you can have control over some of the things that you can manage, at least you've got the confidence that I've done everything properly that I can.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: In every part that was kind of up to me, you know, I've I've done I've done, and you can, I think it's maybe a little easier to to deal with whatever outcome you have if you know you've done everything accurately.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, beautiful.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: You spoke uh uh on a lot of the uh cycle guide features.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you also mentioned that it's as easy as downloading the app for free.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's clients can access it.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I mentioned in the in the intro that it is available in Australia and New Zealand, and you are ready to launch it in the UK.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Am I correct?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so we're just updating the terms and conditions and making sure that everything will comply uh with with the very strict UK standards, as we should.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so yes, it is in Australia and New Zealand uh through the App Store.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: I made it a seven-day free trial.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I noticed some apps were three days, and obviously I've downloaded and tried other ones, and I felt like that was a little bit short.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to trick people into paying it.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of doesn't feel too good.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought seven was long enough that you, you know, you like it or you don't.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and same for New Zealand.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I got some good feedback on some, you know, a particular doctor in the UK, and I can see they're doing a lot about, you know, fertility matters at work and advocating to the parliament.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I feel like there's sometimes a bit of a similarity between our countries.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought it was kind of the next logical step.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we're getting closer to that.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're just working with the the terms and conditions.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but really for the patient, it's it's it's stored on your individual device, so we don't have access to that, nor do we want to.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's your information.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the integrated version is really just getting your treatment instructions uh sent across, and they can be added to every time the nurse calls you, they can send it in real time, that information, rather than you having to bear even more of the burden, and the nurse getting worried and having more phone calls and more uncertainty, and then maybe you need more counselling with a psychologist and you know, anxiety at say your partner who, you know, if you've got one, maybe doing your injections or your next door neighbour.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there's a bit of a ripple effect, and uh mine is really a practical solution.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the Melbourne Fertility Summit brings together all the facets of what can help.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I was surprised how much I was able to just talk to the embryologists and they'd even meet you before your egg collection.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: I thought that was fantastic, and they gave you a little photo of the embryo before uh, you know, before your embryo transfer.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't believe you actually got to meet people in the lab.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you have, you know, skin excision or you have surgery, you don't meet the person in the lab.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that's wonderful that you you do get to meet meet them face to face.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I suppose also the psychologists I found helpful, which was mostly part of mandatory, uh, but they tended because they had tended to have a longer session with you than the nurses or the doctors, the nurses very much kind of always going between kind of the intermediary and and making a lot of important independent decisions and the doctor kind of in the background.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I like that psychologists could often tell you what people in a similar situation would do or what some of the things they'd seen hadn't worked.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: That was good to have examples of what when you were trying to make decisions.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I found that they kind of, I think, like you're trying to add at the summit, kind of more stories of what people have done, makes it a little bit easier to decide if you know what people in a similar situation have done.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes the missing piece to someone's journey is found in someone else's story.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Very much so.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's our human nature, and this is what out what we experience and becoming the wisdom sharing that someone else is able to pick that thread and follow that.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but yeah, very much so.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: Carolyn, we've we you've also given us so much, and also the tips that you've shared as well about what to do with the app and what is possible.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything else that you wish uh to share as tips uh before we move it on to your superpower?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, I think uh, you know, advocating for yourself, which can be hard at the start because you're so overwhelmed and you don't really know what you don't know.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if you feel like you're not getting anywhere, I suppose as a doctor it's not always the doctor's fault or the clinics, but at least consider if you are getting the best advice.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: I can't see any harm in getting a second opinion.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, there's a fee with seeing doctors, although I notice on social media sometimes these things are waived, or even just speaking to, you know, often there's a free nurse uh consult that you can have or looking at testimonials.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: So even if you go back to your original doctor with more certainty, uh, but that's something I'm just so glad I didn't frost my eggs before I changed doctors, you know.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think we'd it'd be a very different situation, and I'm not sure I'd have Alice.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we will never know.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I think advocating for yourself, uh I think ringing the embryologist to understand, you know, say if the embryos haven't made it, I found that really helpful to speak to them, to understand more about the lining uh of and development of the embryos, what they call them, you know, five versus six days.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I've uh and understanding about you know why some why some of my embryos weren't testable, you know, that this clump of cells were near the fetal pole, so it was too risky to do the testing, you know, that was that was useful, it was something to cling on to.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: I found the easiest way to cope with uh uh with a with a negative outcome was to have a plan for the next time.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: I see a lot of people sometimes encouraged to take a break, and I I I get that, but I never wanted to have a break from trying to get to a baby.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was always um always a lot of waiting to try and get to day one.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I think waiting is extremely hard.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Negative results are extremely hard.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think the only thing that, and obviously pregnancy announcements, you know, having to be working with a young team in an open plant office, and I had to do um utest and vaginal pessaries.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And there are also um lots of uh young staff members who have children, lots of pregnancy announcements.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I overheard a few doctors saying to each other, it's never a good time to have a baby and you should do it soon and don't put off.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, oh gosh, that's so right, but I don't really need to hear it.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, and also I use some of my um fairing, you know, the very recognizable teal uh because I had so many of those freezer bags that I used them to transport my things around, and the pharmacists on this team realized and offered if I needed proper refrigeration, so people notice things and uh just uh that can get a bit a bit.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Complicated.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: So the only things that really helped me were thinking that at least I started the process.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: Getting pregnant, but losing the little baby, which I did at six or seven weeks, at least you can get pregnant.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty hard to hear that straight away, and my team didn't say that, but later they did, and they said it's probably abnormal, genetic abnormal, and we're glad that you can get pregnant.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that was, I suppose, if you can keep that in mind, not easy.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think keeping busy, and I think another thing is probably just if you can be as fit and healthy as possible, because if you are and get try and get your life organized, because you realize if you are fortunate to have to have a baby, then it's really handy to be fit and strong because you can kind of cope with it better.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: I must say, I absolutely never thought I would have Alice.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even let myself think it.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't let myself buy any, you know, baby clothing.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what's right or wrong, but I felt a little bit too optimistic to do that.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'm not sure what's right or wrong, but I suppose just sharing that that's that's what I found.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was probably, I think I stayed deliberately pessimistic so that if something didn't go well, then you know it's a shame probably that I couldn't enjoy the pregnancy a bit more, but I kind of hate it when people say, Oh, it'll happen for you.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: And um I didn't think it would happen, but it happened for me.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to say I genuinely did not think it was going to happen.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: I did not think I would be lucky enough because I only had one genetically normal embryo, and that was Alice.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: All the others were either genetically abnormal and not compatible with life or not testable, and I had them transferred and they um didn't didn't make didn't make any headway.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I suppose if you can keep busy, consider a second opinion, make sure you're getting the best advice and just try and keep fit and healthy and know that it's very, very difficult.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's an extremely difficult process to keep going alongside.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I I kind of just wish I'd started sooner.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if anyone's listening or thinking about it, you know, I had pamphlets um that I just used to put face down.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even want to even face doing IVF, so I can't get that time back.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I might not have had to have used overseas eggs now if I'd started younger.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: So if anyone, you know, you think you think it's so much money to freeze eggs and it kind of is, but it's amazing what you can afford.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you wouldn't think you could afford, you know, say 10,000 to get five back from from Medicare.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of crazy, but um, it's cheaper if you start you kind of get more eggs and better quality if you start sooner.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I think any young women who are starting any kind of demanding career or or university degree, uh, I think it would be a good idea to start to have a cycle of frozen eggs, or at least think about it, because I never thought about it.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it certainly gets more harder and protracted as you go.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's getting a bit more common and a bit more known about.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope that you know things like this expo that will help spread the word so people can take a bit more control.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for your time, your consideration, and sharing so much of your experience, uh, both professionally and personally.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Helen.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's a real pleasure to be here.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so thrilled that you and Lisa are organizing the expo, and I can't wait for Saturday, the 8th of November.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: We are super excited knowing that this conversation is going to help many people.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: I certainly hope so.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's uh I hope what I said can can help someone else, even if they're shy and leave their sunnies on while they walk around.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I would have done.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: I would have poached my head in and ducked in.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: But uh now we also know that the the essence of like it's also I'm glad you're talking about this, you know, the incognito aspect of come in there, we and keep ourselves under under the radar.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: But you're walking into fertility clinics, you're putting really big money to, you know, if you do go down IVF and donor or surrogacy, it's um that's incognito there.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: What if you just walk in freely?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: So this is the seminar I want to go to, these are the people that I want to speak to.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna say that I'm here with a friend supporting, and they're just out the front having some food in the food eatery.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: And just walk in like you're walking in, but nothing that you're gonna be there for yourself.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: I say to people, it's like the GPS.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: You are creating, like you want to go from A to B, and you you've got three different pathways, and you want the tolls, or do you want the scenic room?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: You choose your journey, you choose your journey on that day.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, I think the the price of the tickets are very reasonable, and I think it's an accessible, you know.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: I live in the outer eastern burbs, so Box Hill, I was like, oh, fantastic.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so often things are in in the city, and I think something like this, it it's you know, parking can be a bit easier.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's still got accessible public transport.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: I've been to Box Hill Town Hall, functions myself, it's very spacious, and uh, I think it you know it makes it easy for locals and anyone who is, you know, maybe coming from from country areas, uh, who you know, access to IBF is even even trickier.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I think it's a great location.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you can meet people face to face, you know.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: If you can meet the doctor that you might end up seeing, I mean that is absolutely priceless because I think you can judge a lot from the fact that the company's even bothered to be there.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then if the doctor and nurses or whichever staff are there, if they've made the effort to come and meet you in person, I mean resonance is so important.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Resonance is so important, and when you haven't paid so much money to do a console, sometimes we want to make the shoe fit, paid so much money.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: So intuitively, I'm just gonna chuck that out the door.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it just has to work.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, because if you can go cherry pick and just go, well, now I'm gonna I'm I like this clinic, I like who I've spoken to.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, prepare to go and have a consult and one step further.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, because you've got a mixture of, you know, from what I know is you know, some smaller groups of clinics, and then you've got bigger clinics, and there's pros and cons for both bigger clinics can have a big network if you move around from work, which is what I did, but small clinics, you may feel that you know I was in a smaller clinic of a big company in the end, and that worked well for me because I felt kind of a bit of continuity of care and I knew some of the, you know, lots of the nurses' names, but at the same time, I was able to move around clinics if I needed to for work reasons.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a few things to think about there.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you can judge people well in a face-to-face format because you may end up needing to do, you know, virtual consults for whatever reason, because of distance or or whatever.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's good to have met them, you know, on that day.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And compared to the price and the time involved in fertility treatments, this is a you know, this is a tiny, tiny amount of time, a tiny amount of money, uh, just to dive in and and meet people.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, my friend.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Helen.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: I look forward to seeing you in uh in uh a couple of weeks' time.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds terrific.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: Can't wait.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you too.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Helen.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining us at the Homer Fertility.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: We hope today's episode brought you clarity, comfort, and connection.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: If this podcast resonated, please share it.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Leave a review or subscribe.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: This helps us support more people that are on this path.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: And if you'd like to connect or share your story, find us on Instagram and Facebook at Australian Fertility Summit.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Remember the missing piece might be waiting in a story, your body's wisdom, or something new just made for you.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Take care and we'll see you next time.