Latest / She's That Founder: Stop Being The Bottleneck and Lead Smarter with AI / 005 | How to Create a Powerful Voice and Presence as Female Leaders - with Ilana Levine

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005 | How to Create a Powerful Voice and Presence as Female Leaders - with Ilana Levine · She's That Founder: Stop Being The Bottleneck and Lead Smarter with AI

• 0:01
  Dawn Andrews: Hello friends.
• 0:01
  Dawn Andrews: Welcome to my good woman, the podcast for new and future female leaders. I'm your host Dawn Andrews of happily married hockey mom and the founder and CEO of free range thinking business strategy consulting, grab a seat at the table with me each week for candid conversations with culture shifting glass ceiling busting, trailblazing women, leading impactful enterprises. We discuss what makes them tick how to get it all done, and actionable strategies to help you lead with confidence and grow the visibility, reach and revenue of your business. We're classy ladies but we don't believe the swear words listener discretion is advised.
• 1:04
  Dawn Andrews: My good woman Alana Levine is a Broadway actress and a podcast host best known to musical theater fans for her comedic turn as Lucy Van Pelt in the Broadway revival of your good man Charlie Brown. In May of 2016, she joined the podcast universe when she began hosting little known facts with Alana Levine. The podcast has been on the iTunes new and noteworthy list and Alana has been listed as one of the most influential Twitter accounts to follow real talk. She has a gift for making her podcast guests and listeners feel at home because her conversations are unfiltered, raw, honest, and so freaking funny. And today that she was on the other foot. She's in my digital living room, lucky me.
• 1:45
  Dawn Andrews: In this episode, Alana and I discuss why podcasts are a great way to find and elevate your voice, doing work you love that makes you feel purposeful on the planet, fighting perfectionism, battling the beasts of technology, and giving people space to share their magnificence. She's the host I want to be when I grow up. Enjoy my conversation with Alana Levine. If the listeners could see my desktop right now, first of all, they would think I was insane. It's sort of like a Sherlock Holmes moment where like, the entire wall is pasted with photographs and red string connecting everything
• 2:26
  Unknown: you're carrying. You're on homeland you are
• 2:30
  Dawn Andrews: I'm solving crimes and terrorists
• 2:33
  Ilana Levine: all of it as you as you help people's dreams come true at the same time.
• 2:39
  Dawn Andrews: I'm trying, man I'm trying Welcome to the My good woman podcast. Lovely Miss Alana Levine. I'm so delighted to have you here. And
• 2:48
  Ilana Levine: you say it in a British accent. I feel like Welcome to my good woman.
• 2:51
  Ilana Levine: Welcome to
• 2:54
  Dawn Andrews: my good woman podcast. Yes.
• 2:57
  Ilana Levine: Like good woman.
• 2:57
  Ilana Levine: My day. Yeah, exactly.
• 3:01
  Dawn Andrews: One of my clients when when I was putting this whole thing together and naming it so you know, I'm sure I'll talk about this in another episode. But the reason it's called My good woman is exactly for that crazy British accent reason my bestie and I always say Oh, hello my good woman How are you might good woman and I love her she is brilliant and funny. And she is the wind beneath my wings and getting this started and so it's both an inside joke. A little bit of a you know, finger to the establishment if you will. And a wonderful time to practice my British accent. So totally, totally.
• 3:37
  Ilana Levine: It brings us into the world of my hair lady cast recording, it's all it all works out. Which Okay, making.
• 3:46
  Dawn Andrews: So to that point, I was thinking about how much we had in common this morning when I was preparing for this. So first of all, we have the lovely Erica in common. And we both are musical theater performers you in the cast revival of your Good Man, Charlie Brown, as Lucy me as Snoopy in the Fairfield high school summer stuck for
• 4:13
  Ilana Levine: high school, Broadway. It's all the same they.
• 4:17
  Dawn Andrews: And I also love that we have moved on to really interesting, cool chapters and multiple versions of ourselves since those illustrious onstage times. And that's one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about that I think would be really interesting for women to understand is literally what you're up to these days and the origin story we started talking about. I want to I want you to share that with everybody. Well,
• 4:41
  Ilana Levine: I think first of all, what's been incredible about podcasting and I know your listeners are starting or are a part of so many different kinds of businesses. But But podcasts seem to be a part of any business anyone starting anyway because it's such an Great, immediate way to get your your brand out there, even if the podcast isn't the business in and of itself is that it's the most. It's like the easiest thing to do. And it actually can be like the only thing you do, or it can be a side hustle for all the other things you do. So the great thing for me about podcasting is, I can do it while I'm in a show, or I can keep doing it in between shows. And, and it's funny because, you know, many people may not know this, but aside from being an extraordinary podcast host, Don is like a thought leader.
• 5:39
  Ilana Levine: There's nothing sort of, I don't know prepackaged about what you do, I feel like you find a way to enter each person's creative soul and ambition, you know, dream board and make it happen.
• 5:54
  Ilana Levine: So I just want to start with that. That's why Don and I knew each other. And when I met on, I had been an actor for decades, literally, and had kids and was sort of as someone who had mostly succeeded in the Broadway world, that was a job that didn't allow me to be at home at night ever. And with young kids.
• 6:17
  Ilana Levine: And actually, now that I look back, it would have been better to stay in the theater when they were young. Because nighttime has become so much more interesting. Now that they're teenagers, those conversations, you know, I could have played Lego during the day. And you know, it didn't really matter what time of day I was home, although bed and bath was so important to me at the time. Now I'm seeing with older kids, those hours of the day are really really incredibly important in terms of like them debriefing. After they're home from school for a while, and are ready to talk again. But all that being said is I was looking for a way to be creative, that I could also be home a little bit more. And that is where this podcasting thing came from taking all of the conversations that I've had with people in dressing rooms for years that really I don't know, dispelled any mythology about what it is to be a successful artist and sort of the way it looked in general from like late night talk shows the glam part of it, and sort of the like real in the trenches day to day of it. And so part of what makes I think my podcast successful is that it opens up to people interested in the arts, either because they want to do it or they just love it, whatever, whatever it is.
• 7:43
  Ilana Levine: But it also translates into anything you want to do, which is the goal is the goal. But how do you stay in there? When people say no more than they say yes to you. And that is true for any business that anyone is starting? How do you hold on to yourself your dream, your certainty that what you have to offer is unique and special, when many people are in your way, or you have to get yeses to get it past your own brain and idea, right. So anyway, I would say that yes, I I got to do YOU'RE A Good Man, Charlie Brown on Broadway, I got to do a lot of things on Broadway. I got to do a lot of different things in my career. But community has always been front and center for me. And I found that my love of community kept pulling me back to the theater, not just because I love storytelling, but I love the behind the scenes of that world. And sorry, I'm not crying you don't sound like I'm choked up. I just have iced coffee stuck halfway between my mouth.
• 8:55
  Ilana Levine: But I have emotional anyway because I feel like anything that allows people to connect is something that I love showing up for and you opened up a door for me to connect nonstop whether I was onstage or offstage or on a set or not on a set with really remarkable people.
• 9:15
  Dawn Andrews: How many episodes in Are you now? I'm
• 9:18
  Unknown: almost at 300 episodes.
• 9:20
  Dawn Andrews: I saw that and I'm certain when you close yeah,
• 9:23
  Ilana Levine: I mean, I don't know when this will air you know the the first air date for this.
• 9:25
  Ilana Levine: But yeah, yeah. And it's almost six years to the day that you and I started the conversation about. That's
• 9:35
  Dawn Andrews: amazing. What do you what do you hope to leave people with like to leave your listeners with as a result of the effort and energy and community and conversation that you're giving them? That
• 9:47
  Unknown: if it's important to you, if you really feel like whatever it is, whatever it is that you want to do. If you believe in it, then figure out had to keep doing it. You know, Edie Falco was an early guest on my podcast. My husband played her husband on Nurse Jackie for a long time. So, so I am Ed Falco's husband's wife. That is how I'm often introduced in the world, which is a stir, and I'll take it because I love her so much. And I'd like to be Ed Falco's husband. She talked about how when she got sopranos, for her in her life, all she knew was she wanted to act. And if that meant she had to clean houses, or work in a restaurant, or working in office, it didn't really matter to her, her goal was not to become a famous actress, or a household name, her goal was to do this thing she loved. And it didn't really matter whether she got paid for it or not, she would figure out how to pay her bills. And if it meant having a very modest small life, in a tiny apartment somewhere. That was okay for her. It was never about celebrity fame, stardom it was about doing the work that she loved. And it made her feel purposeful on the planet, to do with that. And so the idea that her goodness, right, got matched with her incredible talent. And then the luck of getting cast on this show. That became what it became right? All those things are beyond our control. But that's a perfect example of someone just coming from the purest place and a belief that she had something to offer. Not only did he give her joy, somehow there was the confidence inside her to go, I love doing this. And I actually think I'm good at it. And she wasn't afraid to say that she was good at it. Whether accolades, fame fortune and more work would come or not, was irrelevant for her.
• 12:02
  Unknown: That's the great Edie Falco, when you say what do I want people to come away with, I want people to come away with her integrity, and her talent. You know, their version of that.
• 12:16
  Unknown: And, and trust that if you it's what I was saying before, trust that if you really believe in it, eventually other people will tell you. What's
• 12:26
  Dawn Andrews: what's really hopeful. To me about that is it gives people just by presenting your guests by being able to show them in all of their, like their highs and lows, that you're giving people permission to be their whole selves and bring that to work or bring that just bring that to life. And I'm curious, we talked a little bit about women wanting permission, like feeling like, Am I qualified to do this. In fact, it's a really unique situation I find in my work, when I talk to men, they will run right at something qualified or not, they literally could have no exposure to something. And they'll like race in like the house is on fire and go for
• 13:06
  Unknown: a myth that is really true. I mean, you this is what you do for a living. So yeah, across the board, it's pretty much true. And then all
• 13:15
  Dawn Andrews: the women that I know, and myself included, even with this particular project, I'm behind the scenes working in my little workshop on my own trying to polish all the rough edges off and make it perfect.
• 13:24
  Dawn Andrews: And doing so much work before anything actually connects with an audience with a market with a particular potential client or customer. And I just think about how much time is wasted between all that Genesis Energy and actually getting something out there. And what do you think for you? Who gave you the permission?
• 13:47
  Unknown: Well, actually, I don't know if you know, Dawn Andrews, she just get yourself a dawn Andrews,
• 13:53
  Dawn Andrews: I might know her.
• 13:56
  Unknown: I remember you saying to me for all I mean, it makes so much sense. Now understanding what you historically have found in working with people. You gave me a deadline. And you were like, okay, by this date, you know, by May 15, I want you to have three episodes in the camp, right? I want you to have recorded three episodes. They may not even be episodes you ever use, you know, you were like don't even worry about the finish line. I want you don't worry about them being perfect.
• 14:25
  Unknown: Just start. What I found so helpful about that is I had never podcasted before it was so random. You know, someone offered me a podcast and you were like, obviously it was very low risk in that way. And that's very different than when you have raised or are investing a tremendous amount of money in something. So full disclosure, I just want to begin by saying I did not have to get any seed money to start this project.
• 14:50
  Unknown: totally unique in that way. But in terms of confidence, embarrassment, all of the things that show up for someone, if they're worried whatever it is, is not going to be perfect. You released me from that? Because it wasn't about what's the perfect finished project? It's Let's start. Let's just start.
• 15:14
  Dawn Andrews: Has that has that pulled through Ilana? Like as you've continued to grow and continued with this podcast, so many folks do, you know, do eight episodes and they're like, oh, man, this is a lot. Has that has that ease and willingness to experiment and helped you continue? Yes.
• 15:31
  Ilana Levine: And I will tell you something funny. So I didn't actually at the time, because I didn't even know who my guess would be. I was handed a podcast and it could be about anything.
• 15:43
  Ilana Levine: And eventually, I came to Okay, sort of a tell writers, you know, new writers, right. But you know, so I ended up deciding to, to podcast what I knew, which was artists. And by the way, now, it started out as all, you know, famous actors, it has definitely turned into authors and other I've opened it up because I wanted to start having other kinds of conversations.
• 16:08
  Ilana Levine: And yeah, about things I knew nothing about. I didn't want to get bored or formulaic in any way.
• 16:15
  Dawn Andrews: Lucky us. Yeah.
• 16:15
  Dawn Andrews: Hello,
• 16:17
  Ilana Levine: thank you, lucky me to get to have those conversations. But I did recently air that first ever conversation with a friend of mine who volunteered to be the guinea pig in my first ever, and you know what, I see why I kept going, because although it was a little bit of me finding my way through it. It is a really, really valid conversation. And I think why I was right for this job is I have a genuine curiosity about people. Yeah. So did it turn out my first product, my first test, you know, guest was he was not an artist. And so it didn't actually fit in at the time to the idea of the podcast. But I think if you're genuinely curious about someone or something, then it's valid. And it holds its weight as as a conversation, and I listened back to it as like, actually, this is really he's, he's someone who is incredibly successful in the branding world, and had so much to offer that ended up you know, branding is just how do you package yourself in a way that more people are going to get to know who you are, be it Coca Cola, or a person. Anyways, name is Eduardo Braniff, and I highly recommend his episode because it ended up being for me.
• 17:44
  Ilana Levine: incredibly useful.
• 17:46
  Dawn Andrews: I love it, where wherever the challenge has been for you as you
• 17:49
  Ilana Levine: pursue this technology. I started a business that is, aside from the joy of the conversation is all technology. And the thing I hate most in the world is technology.
• 18:06
  Ilana Levine: i It is not intuitive for me. I feel like do you know what I feel like every time I ask an expert, a question about something that I don't understand about the process of getting my podcast out into the world on all the platforms that you know, there's technology, nothing that I feel like I'm literally this is what I sound like to them. I have an envelope and a stamp. What am I supposed to do? Like, that's how much of an idiot? I feel like that is what I am saying to them. It's like, I have a phone with buttons on it. What what do the numbers what like these work?
• 18:46
  Ilana Levine: Like I feel like it's, it's mortifying. The first thing I want to say, to go back to it is I have always had a sense of humor. It has gotten me through a lot of things. And even as we think about business, or like really important things and and, and things we want to people want to put in the world or products that they really believe are going to save lives if people only had them in their hands or like whatever it is, of course, you know, when you talk about impostor syndrome, I think for me, having a sense of humor and being able to laugh at myself, it doesn't mean I don't get humiliated or ashamed as I said, whether it's how do I put this stamp on this envelope?
• 19:38
  Ilana Levine: It's not in the doing of the podcast itself, ever because it is not about me in any way. The point of my podcast is to give a platform to people that I am so inspired by, not because of their craft and their their beautiful artistry or whatever it is they do or make from the widget maker to the author, but it is. Also so many of them.
• 20:07
  Ilana Levine: It's like their philanthropic, charitable hearts have they've taken this unbelievable fame, and have figured out how to how to use it to really get a message out about something really good in the world and helpful. So because I am really there to just give them a space to share all that is inspiring about them. So every once in a while I will have I know exactly what I want the follow up to be and then my brain freezes for a second, but it doesn't matter. I just ask them something else, it doesn't matter. And then we just circle back. So yeah, I would say there's very little that feels about me. And I think that is the relief of having this other thing in my life Aside from acting, because when I do go in an audition, or when I do go do a, you know, a show, the review is all about me. And my performance, whether I get the job or not. That's the first review. Then there's the New York Times, that's the second review. Then there's my parents in the audience, there's all the the ways in my life, I do want to please and get a certain not affirmation, but confirmation that I was the right choice for this thing. But even with that, I always feel like I'm here to be in service of the writer, I have an ego I get worried that I'm not good enough. But if I just immediately go, Wait, why am I here? This writer has spent maybe 10 years working on this thing, maybe more, maybe less, I am here to help them. See this through. And so if I keep making it about being of service, whichever Lane I'm in on any given day, it takes a lot of the insecurity out of it. And I just spend my life asking questions.
• 22:06
  Dawn Andrews: It's such a beautiful thing, Alana that, like, I hope everybody heard that in his taking it away.
• 22:12
  Dawn Andrews: Because that's, to me, that's the pathway to effective leadership, the coming in and being of service. I see three big challenges for women, when it comes to stepping up to lead whatever that looks like. And it's impostor syndrome. It's perfectionism. And it's having confidence and competence in your own voice and being willing to speak up. And, and what you just shared I feel is the, that's the road to freedom.
• 22:37
  Dawn Andrews: Because if you make if you make that thing, that product, that you're creating that business, you're building your family, your community group, if you make the outcome of that the mission of that bigger than yourself, you move all three of those things out of the way, even if it's just temporarily, so that you can actually show up fully and contribute what you can contribute to that situation. I love that you share that story. It's wonderful.
• 23:03
  Dawn Andrews: Thank you. So now, I am very curious, being non being anti technology. Like I always want to know how how women are making their complicated, complex, busy lives work like are there any, you know, must haves must use must tries things that really make your life move and work more smoothly? Where
• 23:28
  Ilana Levine: one's financial comfort is at any given moment really, obviously affects this answer so differently for everybody. Yeah, here's a friend who her motto is outsource everything I don't like to do,
• 23:46
  Dawn Andrews: Hey, man, I would love to get to that place, I would love to get to that place.
• 23:49
  Dawn Andrews: Not there.
• 23:54
  Ilana Levine: Obviously, that, you know, whatever that means, it can either mean you need to pay someone to do it. I mean, outsource by its very nature understanding of it is I don't enjoy this, or I'm not good at this, or I don't like to do this. I'm going to pay someone to do it for me. Not everybody can do that. That's a wonderful thing to be able to do. Yeah, if you can't outsource the thing in your life that you don't like to do, then it's really figuring out how to make it more fun, right? I mean, it's really that simple. And then part of being a grown up is some things just aren't fun. And some things are hard. And every job, you know, the glamorous actress on a TV show. There's also the oh my god, I have to stay up all night to learn my lines. They've just sent me 40 more pages. Like there's the stress and everything has like really hard parts to the job or often you get picked up at four in the morning. That's really hard.
• 24:49
  Ilana Levine: Waking up at four in the morning is really hard to do all the time. It's hard because it's dark. And we're not farmers by nature and our clock doesn't work. that way, and it just means you're gonna miss seeing everyone in your life that you love before they start their day. But I do feel like I love the idea of outsourcing. I love the idea. You know, there are, I mean, I have found interest to do so many things, every college has a major or program geared toward what it is you are making or doing. So, you know, for me and the reach of the podcast, eventually people would contact me and say I'm, you know, I'm a Marketing major, can I help you with social media, or they're interested in tech, and so they'll help me with that, or an actor who you know, loves my guests. And so they will edit, because they get to be in, in a booth or in a green room with people that they admire so much.
• 25:50
  Ilana Levine: And it's exciting for them. And maybe I take that for granted is that, and eventually, as the thing has grown, I have paid every intern because I feel like that's been a big thing in our, in our culture. It's one thing if you're getting school credit, which means I'm saving you from having to pay for these credits.
• 26:11
  Ilana Levine: So that feels like a fair exchange. But yeah, if they're not in a university program, where I'm saving them money, in terms of paying for credits, then eventually I have I have figured out a way to pay everyone, but
• 26:25
  Dawn Andrews: you know, it's so on brand for you, they get you with everything you've shared so far, here's what here's, if I if I could distill you down to three words, which you are far more than that, and nobody would like to hear love, fun, and community. And the question I asked was, how do you you know, how do you do what you do? How do you get it all done? And those were the three pathways and it all, you know, it shows up in interns? Or it shows up in pulling in more community? Like, how can I do it, I'm gonna find my people, yes,
• 26:55
  Ilana Levine: and make it fun for them. Even if I can't, you know, give them a million dollars for helping me, I do feel like I do try to and also you gotta care about the people, as people who are working with you, I don't care, you know, what the what the, you know, payrolls looks like whether it's super high end or, or minimum wage, whatever it is, I feel like, if people are invested in, in the dream with you, it's all, it's all gonna go so much better. And part of that is investing in them. And making, you know, making them feel like and not in a fake way. I mean, in a real way, there was a woman, I think she was a Harvard Business School professor, but she was talking about sort of keys to success in business. And she was talking about competency and empathy, as incredibly important targets to have as a person in the world of business.
• 27:56
  Ilana Levine: And the order, it was really interesting. And she gave an example of a couple who are going to buy a car and the husband said to the wife, we are not buying a car today, no matter what happens, we are just there to look
• 28:12
  Dawn Andrews: says like me and my husband and a timeshare presentation. Especially there's
• 28:15
  Ilana Levine: so much anxiety around buying a car like these poor car dealerships. I mean, I'm sure they're all really nice people, but immediately walk in with this feeling of you're trying to rip me off, right?
• 28:23
  Ilana Levine: Like, yeah, well, you do a situation like, right, so this couple are going in, and it's just research, like, that's the point of the day. And as soon as they get there, the salesman says to the husband, I just want you to know, I have an autistic son. And I looked you up and I see that you have this foundation that you've run, and how like, like this person, this car dealer had taken the time to Google this client coming in, because they had to sit during COVID. Yeah, to set up an appointment to make sure you know, you can just walk into the car dealership. So right away, this person had done their research, right? And before even starting to think about selling a car, he found now this is an incredible, common ground, right? I mean, the chances of that, but in the world of Google, there's something you can find out about everyone that is connected tissue between the two of you as human beings, first and foremost. And this is the skill to you don't want to seem like you're manipulating something you need to kind of embrace this idea that in a way that feels organic and, and true. Yeah. So this is the empathy part, right? Like once I'm a person, you're a person once the connection happened between these two people, as humans who care about something, a common thing, then the competency in your job shows up which is now I know this person, I'm going to find the kind of car that's right for them and I I am an expert in cars. So there's no phoniness about the business part of this. So that's such a random thing. It's
• 30:09
  Dawn Andrews: not though, because what they've done is, first of all, it goes back to your your conversation with your entrance about treating them as whole, actual three dimensional human people. But they've also created a space of, you know, I don't want to overstate it, but they created a space that is slightly more safe for those buyers of the car, because they get that that person on the other side of the table, has actually taken them into consideration. And
• 30:32
  Ilana Levine: here's a human being with a child with autism, right, like, he's not the shyster car dealer, like he's a human too. So he's aware of what the preconceived idea is, of his career choice. Yeah. So he's figured out like how to negotiate that. Anyway, it was so interesting. I'm not in business. I don't know. Other because I was talking to you.
• 30:56
  Ilana Levine: I'm suddenly looking at business, YouTube clips to kind of understand that world because most of your listeners aren't going to be actresses doing the podcast, right? They're going to be doing really important things. And creating business is a very
• 31:12
  Dawn Andrews: important thing. A lot of Come on now. People People have you in their ears, going on their long walks, trying to distress getting through a pandemic and not able to go anywhere, but outside on a walk by themselves, and they get to take you with them. And you're leaving people with love fun and community, at least as far as I'm concerned. So we all could certainly use a lot more of that. Yeah, all day every day.
• 31:36
  Ilana Levine: And roadmaps. I mean, I think what's been interesting in my 300 episodes with really successful people, each of their roadmaps, what heart gives me inspiration, and it's so heartening, there isn't a one fits all formula. And that's right. And so none of these people who we know all of their names, right, in whatever career they chose, they made it there in the West perspective, you know, maybe the real takeaway is they were so authentic to themselves. And I know, you know, podcasting was still kind of new when I started now, everyone has one. But that wasn't the case. My friend Dawn Andrews does. Because it's obviously it's, it's working.
• 32:21
  Ilana Levine: But you know, I listened to a couple of people that inspired me. And then I thought, You know what I can't, I'm not the kind of intellectual. I'm not a Terry Gross. We love the same people and have a lot of the same guests. But she comes at it from a very different point of view.
• 32:38
  Ilana Levine: We're different ages, we grew up in different places. And she wasn't an artist herself, originally. But she's, you know, she has mastered the art of the interview, and then Marc Maron on the WTF podcast, I also share so many of the same guests. He's a stand up by major like so. So I realized, like, I don't, I can't do them. I can't do them, I can just be inspired by them.
• 33:08
  Ilana Levine: And I think that's true for all of us. And also, like, not looking right and left all the time and not following my numbers and going oh my god, what why is this dipping? You know, why did this episode not get the same numbers and listens is another one and that stuff can make you crazy, too, it's like just keep moving forward.
• 33:51
  Dawn Andrews: It's so true. And in business as well. You know, obviously, depending on the kind of business you have small, larger with investors, etc. Data can be can be your friend, it can be the truth. And if your business isn't profitable, then you have to look at why that is.
• 34:08
  Dawn Andrews: Otherwise, it's really hard to keep a business alive. Yeah, but but at the same time it I call it zooming in and zooming out, right? You got to be able to like zoom in a little bit, look at what those things are and take away the relevant information. And then you have to zoom out and get back to your vision and your mission for what the company could be and lead in lead from present into the future. Instead of getting too hooked on here's the numbers that are reporting because numbers are telling you what happened, like what just happened or what has happened, not what is going to happen. And if you get too stuck on living with what has happened, you're basically living backwards right? You're not You're not living towards this, this vision of the future that you have for what you want to create.
• 34:50
  Dawn Andrews: Actually, there was something that you said earlier that I wanted to go back to about in your car salesman with the with the buyer store. A and one of the things that comes up a lot in my conversations with leaders and the the biggest point of change that somebody can make and up leveling their leadership is acknowledging how they've been seeing the people that work for them or that are reporting to them. And there's a wonderful book called Leadership and self deception by the Harbinger Institute. And it breaks down that usually the biggest issue in relationship in leadership in helping people to move forward and progress is that the person that is responsible for that progression is seeing the person as an object, rather than a person, like a rock that needs to be moved out of their path, my business would be successful only, if only I could just move these people out of my way, if they could just stop, you know, stop messing everything up, stop making me trip on my walk, then everything would be better. And as soon as a leader can see that there is an actual full human being with an autistic child with thoughts and feelings with a whole life that they're living, that can transform a company almost overnight. And I've seen it happen in my work.
• 36:09
  Dawn Andrews: So I'm glad that you shared that. Share that example, because I wanted people to understand that where they may might be bumping up against their next step in growing as a leader and growing their business is in the stories that they're telling about the people that are writing along with them to move forward. So thank you for that opportunity. Because you heard that when we were talking about it,
• 36:31
  Ilana Levine: no, I get it. I mean, I think that's why, again, if it's economically feasible, so many young businesses who are more than just one person in the car seat, go on retreats together, or try to find ways to bond together. I mean, there's a whole business and people who go in and leave these things, right to kind of create family feeling. And so yeah, and also for a lot of people, I mean, I'm so lucky I grew up in I mean, by no means perfect, but a very, you know, loving family.
• 37:06
  Ilana Levine: situation. And so, for me, family does not trigger me the word family is not it, you know, creating family in my workspace for a lot of people. That's super triggering, right? Not the goal, to like, recreate family.
• 37:21
  Ilana Levine: But the goal can be to recreate the family you always dreamed of having, right? Like the joy of being an adult is chosen family.
• 37:29
  Ilana Levine: And so I've realized that what I think of is family can be really not a happy making thing for people I work with. And so sort of trying to even you know, and that's when the word community came in. And that's why I think I really think about it in that way. In my head. I'm saying family, but that doesn't work for everyone. But community.
• 37:56
  Ilana Levine: Community does. Right. Yeah. And so that's sort of what I think, you know, you're talking about creating community. I mean, the irony of what you're saying is the idea of someone hiring people and then feeling like those people are getting in their way. But what that does happen, too, sometimes we hire the wrong people. And get back to your point, dismissing someone from a position. I mean, I will I think many women will relate to this, the number of chances we may give somebody because we are aware of their holistic situation and what it will mean, to let them go causes us tremendous pain. And it may be that that our male counterparts are much more alike. You know what, it's business. It's not personal.
• 38:46
  Ilana Levine: Everything is personal. For us.
• 38:46
  Ilana Levine: That's how we're genetically wired. So even the getting them out of the way because actually they are problematic for the goal. Sometimes that happens to people aren't, you know, you think it's going to work and it doesn't. Or beyond that when someone decides they're moving on? Like, yeah, we're in pain that can come with that extra devastation. Oh, yeah. did I do wrong? And they're like, No, I just graduated college and so you're not interning for me now?
• 39:20
  Ilana Levine: Not because you are unhappy. You graduated. Got it, and you got a real job in the field of your dreams.
• 39:26
  Dawn Andrews: Okay. Okay, good.
• 39:26
  Dawn Andrews: Okay. All right. It wasn't, it wasn't. I'm gonna step away and just really paperbag and everything's gonna be okay.
• 39:33
  Dawn Andrews: Stupid,
• 39:36
  Ilana Levine: stupid, but it really does. It really does.
• 39:39
  Ilana Levine: Just end up, you know, those are 4am wakeups. Like, what did I do wrong?
• 39:45
  Dawn Andrews: Well, so tell me if I call you a leader. If I say Alana Levine, you are a leader.
• 39:50
  Dawn Andrews: How does that sit with you?
• 39:54
  Ilana Levine: I feel like the word because I always seem to if I'm embarrassed by Word not that I shouldn't be embarrassed by the word leader. But I always put a word that resonates for me. And I think I am by nature, a producer, a producer, as I understand it, in the world of of entertainment, if you're not just the producer, because you've given money to the project, is someone who gives people opportunities to be great at what they do. And so I feel like, for me, my goal, in every environment that I'm in that I'm in charge of, both in my family, and in my workspace, is to figure out how to give people all they need to be the best at what they do. And so part of that is, you know, if we call that leadership part of it is like, what we were talking about really getting to know the people, what makes them feel inspired to fulfill their own ambitions, like how can I create a space? So I only start with like, what do you need to do your job? How can I facilitate that? How can I help you do that? And so that's one I mean, I do think that it to me leadership means being in the in a place where I can see people's potential and help them unlock it.
• 41:21
  Dawn Andrews: So there's a, there's a model for leadership that I share with with the people that I work with. And it's super simple. It's three pieces, its vision, which we've already talked about a little bit like having a having something in mind that you see that you're trying to build or grow and enrolling other people to be able to stand there and see that with you, even though it doesn't yet fully exist. So vision, then alignment, which is what, you know, people processes, tools, etc. Do we need to be able to move towards that vision, and then also looking at the resources of of that person? What are they interested in? And then the last part is championing execution, which is what you talked about, which is, what does what does this person or this group of people need, so that they can do their best work? And how can I facilitate that? What can I move out of their way? How can I protect their time? So in that sense, I would argue that yes, you are a leader. And the reason I asked the question is because so many women as soon as I say that they're like, oh, they they'll replace it with another word. There'll be like, Oh, well, you can call me an organizer. You can call me a boss, you can call me, you know, a community leader they will accept. But just a straight up word leader really seems to sit in an odd it's almost like a pebble in people's in what I would call female leaders shoes, and I'm wondering what that's about? Yeah,
• 42:45
  Ilana Levine: I mean, it's funny maybe for me, and this is different for other people. I don't work. My most of my life has not been in what is traditionally thought it is business when you are someone who works in the arts.
• 43:02
  Dawn Andrews: Who would you say is a leader in the arts?
• 43:05
  Ilana Levine: Right? I mean, I think to your point everyone is right. I mean, it just depends like if you're the so I think of it is you know, in film and television, it's number one on the call sheet, right? Person lines, the biggest part probably is getting paid the most. Even though they're not the director or not the producer of said film or TV show, everyone is looking how that person behaves. Right How Edie Falco acts on a set just to go back to my world. Any is what we call number one on the call sheet. It was called Nurse Jackie, she played Jackie.
• 43:39
  Ilana Levine: Yeah, so because she came to work every day. I'm gonna have an easy listen to this episode.
• 43:43
  Ilana Levine: Because you know, he's like,
• 43:45
  Dawn Andrews: Oh my god, so much love.
• 43:49
  Unknown: A lot of really loves me.
• 43:52
  Dawn Andrews: Well, you are married to her husband.
• 43:56
  Ilana Levine: That That hurt, unbelievable lack of demoness shut her about her willingness to stay as late as they needed her and to come in as early as they needed her. Her never having her standing be in a scene with another actor, even that other actor having three lines. She's never not there on the other side of the camera. So she's the leader of that show.
• 44:23
  Ilana Levine: As even though she's an actress, because how she behaves even though she could really do whatever she wants, because they're never gonna let her go from Nurse Jackie, no matter what her behavior could have been. She showed like a real team player. You know, she led with that. And so I guess I guess, to be fair to the word leadership. i It's not a word I use very much in my life.
• 44:54
  Dawn Andrews: I want all the women I want all the women using that again. So you know here we are in the current circumstance sense of the world, my personal opinion is that if more women were in leadership that we would have, I mean, I don't know if we'd have perfect circumstances, but we certainly would have have different ones. And I believe different ones to the better.
• 45:14
  Dawn Andrews: And back to this idea, if you can't see it, you can't build it. So if women can't own the word leader, in in any arena, so not just in a business arena, or political arena, but if we can't own it in our, in our own, you know, as a leader of our families, as a leader of a community group, as a leader of my, you know, the moms at school with my kids, if we can't, can't try that on and become comfortable with it, then how do we expect to take the space in these larger, more influential, you know, world shifting places?
• 45:48
  Ilana Levine: I guess, I guess it's thinking about, you know, humility comes to mind, right, like the word humility. And I think there are certain situations where you are asked to be in charge, and therefore you are the leader. I mean, I guess I'm the leader of my podcast. But I, I, I guess it goes for me, I don't know if it's so much about oh, don't give me that title and not deserving. It is for me about.
• 46:16
  Ilana Levine: And I really want to think about this. And I will even when we're done with this conversation, because I am very comfortable when I feel knowledgeable, competent, I've done my research to take ownership of whatever I'm doing and ask for help when there are parts of it that don't make sense to me like it like the stamp on the envelope. How do you do that? Right? Yeah. But I feel like for me, and community, I want everyone to feel that they have leadership, over whatever part of the process they are in charge of, or they aren't spearheading and so I guess if we get into the minutiae of it, I think there is probably something for me to look out about my knee jerk reaction to switch out another word for it. Absolutely. But I feel like for me, it's about partnership is the most successful way to make anything, as you know, Snoopy, you know, everything for me is about being an ensemble. And as an ensemble member, means everyone feels like they are a leader in their domain. Now, obviously, if you're a solo business owner, and you run your business by yourself, and you don't have a staff, you're you're leading yourself in a way. But like, Yeah, I think leadership, it's a it's, I guess, it just means with confidence, and empathy.
• 47:41
  Ilana Levine: Doing what you do, right? I mean, that's, that's what it means in whatever arena as, as a parent, as a, as a partner, as a daughter, as a business person, as an artistic person, all of it. And yeah, I guess, I guess maybe, for me, that was why the word leadership felt like the boss. And I, and I think those constructs make for workplaces where not everyone feels like what they have is equal to someone else. And so for me, the goal is less. I mean, leadership in terms of like, helping, sure, but I'm always looking for How can everyone feel like the boss?
• 48:30
  Ilana Levine: How can everyone feel like the leader, and that might not be realistic, which is why I'm not in business. Maybe it doesn't work that way for real. But like the big office, and then everyone else in cubicles, like that's what I see, in my mind,
• 48:46
  Dawn Andrews: are the use of salesmen. They're the used cars.
• 48:50
  Ilana Levine: No, no, I don't I don't mean that. I don't mean they're, they're, they're not that their reputation precedes them as not being honest.
• 48:56
  Ilana Levine: Because that's yeah, that is how car salesmen were seen as trying to rip you off. But now we have Carmax and Carvana. And you don't have to worry about that.
• 49:08
  Ilana Levine: You just choose it and they send it to you. By but yes, this idea of what I do is more important than what you do. I hate that across the board. I hate that. I
• 49:19
  Dawn Andrews: don't know if this word exists, and it's it's gonna be super cheesy, but I'm a black that out anyway. I feel like we need to we need to start using the word unique well. And why I'm saying that is in leadership styles that work well. And in successful leaders, I don't feel like it's a I'm more important than you. I may have. I may be responsible for things that you are not yet responsible for because I have a skill set or an understanding or training or education that puts me in a place where I understand that unique set of concerns. Yeah, but But what we're talking about is the rest of the team being unique will they are you In their equality, unique in their contribution? Yes,
• 50:04
  Ilana Levine: I think that's beautiful. And I see a hashtag I see T shirts I see a lot unique.
• 50:10
  Dawn Andrews: Well, there it is.
• 50:10
  Dawn Andrews: I knew I was gonna come up with a short line by the end of this conversation. So
• 50:16
  Unknown: good. How are you spelling it?
• 50:20
  Dawn Andrews: Let's see. UNIQUEQ ual. Right. Well, unique Well, right? Did I get that? I don't know.
• 50:33
  Unknown: Well, either.
• 50:34
  Dawn Andrews: Oh,
• 50:35
  Ilana Levine: I'm just there.
• 50:35
  Ilana Levine: But yeah, good. I mean, right.
• 50:38
  Ilana Levine: And then your next venture
• 50:40
  Dawn Andrews: you were here for it, you're here for it. Okay, so this is this is my closing question. And then we have to know where to where to find where to connect and where to find all all of you and all your things. Imagine yourself in Times Square. All of the sparkle, glitz, big, crazy, loud billboards, and the biggest loudest sparkliest billboard, you get to put your message to the past, present and future female leaders of the world.
• 51:09
  Dawn Andrews: Something that you want to share? What would be on the Billboard?
• 51:16
  Unknown: Believe?
• 51:18
  Dawn Andrews: Hmm, tell me more, what's behind the believe
• 51:22
  Ilana Levine: that that we have every right to have our voices heard our ideas shared? We deserve respect. You know, I think it's about that. It's like, it is so worthy. It's so worthy. And there's so much messaging about how to package that right what it has to look like, because it's coming from a woman how to not come off as too aggressive, or, or, or somehow impact this, this delicate male ego, you know, ways to kind of put it out there. That's just lovely. All the time. And by the way, I believe in lovely, I really do. I there's nothing wrong with it. But that doesn't have to come at the cost of, of ownership of the thing. And you know, I look at a lot of you know, Sarah Jessica Parker, I see these women in my life who have so many businesses going on. Sarah has a scent called Lovely, right? Yes.
• 52:35
  Dawn Andrews: Yes, that sounds like she literally bottled it.
• 52:37
  Dawn Andrews: She bottled it.
• 52:39
  Ilana Levine: She taught it loudly. And she is, but she's also an I've seen her. You know, I've seen her manage so many different situations, with fans who, who say all I want is this, but then they want more and more and more, you know, how do you be gracious and nothing she does can happen without all of the fandom that that surrounds her work, but but also having boundaries? Like, absolutely, thank you. Thank you, I've, I have given you what you've asked for, but also, I am an autonomous person with a family and I have to cross the street now. And she does it within elegance, but um, in earned in earned sense of boundaries, right having boundaries at the same time. So that's Sarah, that's a sidebar. But I do think there's this way in which you just have to believe that you are just as worthy for the place at whatever table you want to sit at. And of course, and it sounds so obvious. And I can't believe in 2022 and, you know, podcasts live forever. And so I hope, I hope in 50 years when somebody finds this episode, they won't know what we are talking about
• 53:58
  Dawn Andrews: old conversation in the Charleston over their
• 54:02
  Ilana Levine: shows and they go oh my god, that woman literally put on a full face of makeup before her husband woke up. So he thinks that's what she looks like. Right? Do we look at that and go to that's bananas? Yeah, but that's what I hope this seems like in the future. Like why are they what's the distinction between how a lady would do it versus how I'm you know, we are in the world if they were getting closer and closer yes to a time where your pronoun does not determine how you have to behave in the world where the limits
• 54:34
  Dawn Andrews: of your accomplishment and everything else. Yes, when
• 54:38
  Ilana Levine: everyone is de and it's controversial for some and a no brainer for others and learning a new language is difficult, but we can all do it.
• 54:45
  Ilana Levine: There's a Rosetta Stone for all of us. We will learn yes, that if we just start we're all just people doing the best we can with humility and ambition and once we get to that What?
• 54:58
  Ilana Levine: Everything else everything else?
• 55:03
  Ilana Levine: You know? That's to me what
• 55:05
  Dawn Andrews: the billboard that's what believe is? Yeah.
• 55:08
  Dawn Andrews: Excellent. I can't wait to see that in real life I would like to see that. Okay, well
• 55:12
  Unknown: I will meet you in Times
• 55:13
  Dawn Andrews: Square, it's a date. Well, where where can everybody find? Where can they find little known facts? Where can they find you? You know, I'm deep up in your Instagram so I love it, can they find you?
• 55:27
  Ilana Levine: They can find me I'm at home in Brooklyn, just a little known facts podcast I am, I am most active. And all of the information about things that are happening that are pertinent are on Instagram at little known facts podcast. And that's also true on Facebook, although I live there much less. But that's where you can find me and the podcast itself is literally any platform on the planet that has podcast just look for little known facts with Alana Levine.
• 55:56
  Ilana Levine: And I can't wait to be in your ears.
• 56:00
  Dawn Andrews: Yay. Thank you so much for being here with me today and for for celebrating your almost six years and 300 episodes as I launched my very first. It
• 56:11
  Ilana Levine: couldn't be more meta, and circle and I you know, I just want to say thank you, publicly to you because you're, you're a life changer. And just the most good person and I love you Dawn Andrews and thank you from the bottom of my heart for everything. Thank
• 56:30
  Dawn Andrews: you back Ilana Levine. I love you too. And I'm about to be verklempt so we'll, we'll cut it off here. Thank you for joining us this week. To view the complete show notes and all the links mentioned in today's episode, visit my good woman.com Before you go, make sure you follow or subscribe to the podcast so you can receive fresh episodes when they drop.
• 56:53
  Dawn Andrews: And if you're enjoying my good women. Leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Reviews are one of the major ways that Apple ranks their podcasts. So even though it only takes a few seconds, it really does make a difference. This episode is produced by me, Brian Marcus and Kathleen O'Shaughnessy, thank you again for joining me Dawn Andrews in this episode of my good woman. I'll see you next time.