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Monday Mini: SMNTY Goes to Court · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I never told you, protective, I
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: hurtried you, And today we are going to be talking
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: about something we teased in our recent episode on women
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: and jury duty, which is Samantha and I's experiences in
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: court in my primarily my experience recently serving jury duty,
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: which we didn't get to go into, which was why
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I was gone for five.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Days, abandoned me for so long?
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Did it was a panic when I got chosen?
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: All panic for different reasons.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm not going to go too much into the
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: details of the case. I'm just going to kind of
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: talk about my experience as a juror. But that being said,
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: it was murder trial, right, I'm not going to get
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: into that much detail, but I will be talking a
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: little bit about how that impacted me.
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: Yes, although I think it is it's good to note
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: because one of the things that you should let them
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: know is about the timeline. So I think people get
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: shocked about the fact that it takes so long for
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: the process and why people may like never hear anything
• 1:34
  Speaker 4: for three or four years. And then also with that,
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: like why witnesses have issues and trying to restate the
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: same things. Because time makes differences.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: It does, it does. So speaking of before I forget, Yes,
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: this was a trial. This was a case from twenty nineteen.
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: It had on to trial previously, and it was a mistrial.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: It was a hung jury and we could see what
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: they decided, which was really interesting and I'll talk about
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: it more, but there was a pretty stark divide of
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: like there were five charges and there were some people
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: who were very much guilty on all and there were
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: some people who were not guilty at all. But anyway, yeah,
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: it happened in twenty nineteen, it went to trial, there
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: was hungury, so it was coming back, but the state
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: brought that up of the like, I'm sorry it took
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: so long because you know, the families are in there
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: and there was a lot of emotion running pretty high,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: and it was pretty shocking that it was from twenty
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: nineteen and here we are deciding it now. But also, yeah,
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: going to your point, because you have experience testifying, there
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: were witnesses, some of whom I believe you've testified at
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: the previous time, who were called into question because they
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: couldn't remember the exact specifics of the case or whatever
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: they had to do with the involvement, And sometimes it
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: would be like, do you need to look at your report,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: one of the lawyers would say, And it just because
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: that does you know, the jurors are meant to judge
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: how credible a witnesses, right, But yeah, I mean, of course,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: like I, I wouldn't know if that was if I
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: didn't have my report in front of me, and it is.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: It's scary. I got scared in the process of being
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: interviewed as a juror, and I flubbed an answer, I
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: flubbed questions. So I can only imagine if you're getting
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: called in and you're getting these questions from two lawyers
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: who are trying to use you in one way or
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: another to prove either side or whatever they're going through.
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: Right. Well, and also, just as you were telling me earlier,
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: he was also released at that point on under house arrest.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Right I think so, yeah.
• 4:12
  Speaker 4: So he must have been able to make bell, which
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: is unusual for that type of those types of charges.
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: So I'm kind of interested in how he was able
• 4:21
  Speaker 4: to plead that every now and again, circumstantially you can
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: house arrest is different from different people. So this is yeah,
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: like the things I know. I've never been on a jewelry.
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: I've been called in a couple of times. One time
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: I was able to get out because my home address
• 4:36
  Speaker 4: was still my parents address because I was too transient
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: where I would move around too much, and I felt
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: like that would be better. And then I had to
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: go to there and be like, I don't actually live here,
• 4:47
  Speaker 4: that's and they're like, uh, you need to change your address.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: It's like fair enough, fair enough.
• 4:53
  Speaker 5: My bad.
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: And then another time I just called in and they
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: didn't need me. And I've always like you and I
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: talked about last time. I was like, I doubt I'll
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: ever be on a jury just because I worked with
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: the state, so I often did court cases and helped
• 5:08
  Speaker 4: represent the state in whatever conversations we had, whether it
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: was for the Department of Family and Children's Services or
• 5:13
  Speaker 4: whether it's for Department of Juneral Justice, and the Department
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: of Juvenal Justice works with kids youths who are offenders,
• 5:20
  Speaker 4: so they have broken the law so that they don't
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: quite go to jail necessarily, but they do go through
• 5:25
  Speaker 4: similar processes. It's never a jury trial because obviously they
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: can't have because deciding a factor about a case, but
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: I would oftentimes be the one coming in. I had
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: to do paperwork for petitions for all these different things,
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: whether it's to put them on house arrest or whether
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: it's to lock them up, or whether it's to release
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: them or I get the treatment for them. So I
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: had to do a lot of petitions and go in
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: front of judges and it is really really nerve wracking.
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: Even though you might just be in front of like
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: ten people, it still feels like a battle. And of
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: course for me could be at personalities any that. Yeah,
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: you know, performance anxiety in general. So that's that was
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: the thing. But also because I feel like it was
• 6:07
  Speaker 4: a heavy responsibility because these are the people's lives, whether
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: they're youth or adults, and you need to respect both
• 6:15
  Speaker 4: the victims the Hindu for perpetrators like you, they are
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: human beings, and I often had cases where I kind
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: of went against the state trying to do better for
• 6:22
  Speaker 4: the people because there would be extenuating circumstances that we
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: might not know, and.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Also because justice system is.
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: Not as unbiased as they would like to claim, as
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: we've seen repeatedly.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: There's a lot sub to that.
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: But yeah, like him being on house arrests for those
• 6:39
  Speaker 4: extensive charges including murder not necessarily like aggravated or like that,
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: but still is like, wow, he was able to go home.
• 6:48
  Speaker 4: Usually they hold them no matter what, even if they do.
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: Maybe the hung jury was the difference because I don't know,
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: but if it was an extensive, like harsh enough charge,
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: typically they will Again murder will't necessarily release you like that.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: Now house of rest is different, y'all. I could go
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: into the whole conversation about monitoring and what that looks
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: like in the GPS system and the private companies that
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: the state hires on how much money they make in
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: these really not great systems.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, easyed a fool.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, Well to clarify, as I mentioned in our
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Women and Jury Duty episode, there are the opening arguments
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: in this specific case, but I think in general, in
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: cases like this, it starts with the state because the
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: burden of proof is on the state. In the state
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: in this case was of course representing the person who
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: I died, and then they argue, and then the defense
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: comes out and argues, and then their closing arguments are
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: The state goes first. The defense has a rebuttal, and
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: then the state gets to go again and we were
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: told very clearly whatever they say is not necessarily true.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: And then after we rendered our verdict, they were victim
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: impact statements. And the victim impact statements is when one
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: of the family members of the person who had been
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: murdered said, he's been on house arrest this whole time.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, that's just.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Okay where I'm that's interesting.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I but I don't know if it's true.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I just know what she said. Right.
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: To be fair, it may have absolutely everything to be
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: with the due to the fact that they are overpopulated,
• 8:45
  Speaker 4: and so certain people will be released based on that
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: due to the level of violence, the level of violence
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: within being arrested or being threatened within a secured place.
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: So you never know if it was a judge's choice,
• 9:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, they still had to approve it, but like
• 9:04
  Speaker 4: he could have been released on a monitor house arrest
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: based on the fact that the jail was overpopulated at
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: the time and he was less risk than any of
• 9:16
  Speaker 4: the others detained.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Which I don't know. There's a lot of drug.
• 9:22
  Speaker 4: Charges that happened in jailed and fined, and they.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Seem like they would be less risk than their murder charge. Whatever. Again,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: We had a lot of questions as a jury about
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: many things, but in terms of like, oh wow, that
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: that calls for that amount of time served and that
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: is that okay? Interesting? But also we found out a
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: lot of things after we gave the verdict and the
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: lawyers can come talk to you. The defendant in his
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: family had received a lot, lot a lot of death threats,
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: so I don't know if that had anything to do
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: with it either. But anyway, okay, I want I'm just
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: going to break down the whole thing. I bet, I'm
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: going to keep it pretty short. So I actually have
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: a lot of friends who've never been summoned for Jerry
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: j D kind of blows my mind. You get a
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: summons in the mail. It gives you time and place
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: to show up, which, yes, you will get in trouble
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: if you do not. You can defer it. There's a
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: couple of like I'm a full time student and a
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: full time caregiver. There's a couple things like that that
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: you can just get out of it. But you can
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: defer it just for like this is not a good time,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: which is what I did, because we were going to Seattle.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: But I deferred it foolishly. I didn't choose a date,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: which you could choose a date. I was just like whenever,
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: and I immediately when I.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Got back, well I guess whenever.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: They were like, you're coming in now. So you go in,
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: and at least in the one in Fulllton County where
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: I am, which Fulton County is huge. They kind of
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: they they put you in this huge waiting room. They
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: show you videos about how your jury duty service works,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: which is really funny to me because some of them
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: are like how to answer the summons, and I'm like,
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: we're already here, so okay. But then you're assigned a
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: number and they call your number. Well not always because
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: the night before, like you said, you call and sometimes
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: they don't even need you. But if you've gotten to
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: the court, if they call your name, they assign you
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: a number. And this is because if you do get chosen,
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: it's for your protection essentially, so they don't know your name.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: And I'm very glad I wrote down my number because
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I was extremely extremely confident I would not get chosen.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: So but then you.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Get a number, you go to the court, and that's
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: when you do varder, which is the case I was in,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: was pretty large. The previous time I made it to
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: that section it was much smaller, but this is pretty large.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: So they broke us into three groups and they bring
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: you in and then they interview you. Then they have
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: basic questions like have you ever been the victim of
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: violent crime? Things like that, and then they have specifics.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: So for me, I did get asked about the podcasting,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: and this is when I got really nervous and like
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: flubbed my answers because I was just like, so, oh,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: my gosh, I don't know. But I did say it's
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: a feminist podcast and I was proud of that, So
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: you do that. And then I was in the middle group,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: which was like the worst timing because I had to
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: wait for all the other groups to happen. Then they
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: bring you back in and they announced who the jurors are.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Mine was twelve plus two alternates that you don't know
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: who the two alternates are, and my god, gold, I
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: was shocked. I was in complete shock. And then they
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: dismiss everyone else and then they give you the overview
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: of what the next in this case, few days are
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: going to look like what it requires, and you have
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: to remember your number because that's how you're gonna like
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: do your notes, which, as I said, you have to
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: take notes, or you really should because they don't give
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: you transcripts with anything. And yeah, I was in a
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: little bit of shock, went home panicked. We were trying
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: to figure out what we're gonna do. Right on sav
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: we were trying to figure out what we're gonna do. Yeah,
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: but so it's nine to five. It was nine to
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: five for about five days, and which is the worst
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: traffic time, as you can imagine. You have to go,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: you go through security, all of that, and I sat
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: in and the first day was primarily like a lot
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: of evidence being presented, and then the second day was
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: more witnesses and then we deliberated for about seven hours
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: and we did arrive at a verdict. And deliberation is
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: the part I was most worried about, because I was
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: just really concerned. I did feel a responsibility, and I
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: was worried that I'd have to be like the squeaky wheel.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: It's like, no, I don't agree, or I don't I
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: don't think that's what's up. So we rendered a verdict.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: It did take us all. We went back and forth,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: and then there was the option for people to leave.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: At this point I did not leave because I just
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: wanted to see it through. This is when the victim
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: impacts happened, which should kind of to I guess sway
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: the judge perhaps and how much, and the sentencing and
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: then the sentencing happens, and then it was mostly over.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: But it was clear the defense planning on appealing it.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I think, although the state lawyer told us that some
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: of the charges they went with because we proposed different charges,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: and she said she knew they would have been appealed
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: if they had gone with those charges, and so they
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: chose ones they thought wouldn't be likely.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Because after we gave the verdict, the judge came
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: and talked to us and was just like talking it
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: out with us and like what he thought. He wanted
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: to know what we thought. And then the lawyer came
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: in and we did the same thing, and that's when
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: we learned some of the other details of the case
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: that we didn't know because it couldn't be entered into evidence. Also,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: during this whole time, you can't talk about it, which
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: you know you want to desperately because you're like, I
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: say something like this where it was very ah, I
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: had like a lot of upset happening, But also it
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: was just it wasn't clear cut, and I know most
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: cases probably aren't, but it wasn't clear cut, and it's
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: like you want to talk to your friends about it
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: and like what do you think? But you can't talk
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: about it until after. So that was that I wanted
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: to just run through some brief thoughts I had during this.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: I was incredibly anxious. I was really anxious the whole time.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: There was really intense evidence, and the families are there,
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: and so it was it was like not a good
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: time for like my body. But when yeah, I mean
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: you're in the courtroom for like five hours at a time.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: You have like a nine to twelve, then a little
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: twelve to one break, and then four hours, and so
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: I had like worries about coffeeing and stomach rumblings and
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: all of those things. But oh gosh, Yeah. And I
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: would say there was somebody on in my interview group
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: who said he had been a victim of a gun
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: crime and was like, I have sometimes I'd dissociate. I
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: have these moments all of this and he got chosen
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: and I ended up like talking to him a lot
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: because I also felt kind of felt silly because I
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: felt like no one else was being affected like I was,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: and I was like, am I just a big baby?
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: But he know. We had some good talks yeah about it,
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: and a lot. This was a big kind of part
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: of the centerpiece of this was questions around self defense
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: and gun violence in general. And I have to say,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: after the first day, I was just like, no one
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: should have guns. That was like my take. But they
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: asked a lot of questions about gun ownership and viewing
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: your views on guns. And I have to tell you,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: so many men took this time during the interview process
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: to tell us about how many guns they had. Now
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: great it was and all of this, and I was
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: just like wow, wow, you op Okay. There was a
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: lot of like really played out stereotypes that happened. The table,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: like our juror table split like women were on one
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: side and men were on the other, and we just
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: did that naturally, like it wasn't And the men, I
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Am not kidding, We're talking about football and grilling and guns,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: and the women were trying to work and like take
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: care of childcare stuff like, it was just a really
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: stark difference. I spoke about some comments I heard from
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: men about judging the women's the witnesses or experts that
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: were brought in and their appearances, so that was very
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: much there. They did try to argue at one point
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: like men will be men and that's why he did it,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: and all of the women were like, no, not an offense,
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: not an efense. No. And I was worried about voicing
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: my opinion and all of that, but I will tell you,
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: in this case, I saw the benefits very clearly of
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: having women and women of all different backgrounds, because they
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: were the ones that were really voicing what they thought
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: and were very passionate, and they were on opposite sides,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: and I thought that was really good actually because it
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: helped me kind of work through this. But there they
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: were really caring about what this would do, and I
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: was happy to see it. It did get heated, there
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: was some yelling, but I was glad. Oh my gosh,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: people were mad. The main piece of evidence was a
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: surveillance video. We had like eleven angles of the surveillance video,
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: but we were watching it frame by frame, and people
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: were like arguing about what's happening here and what's happened here.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: It just happened so fast. It was a very quick
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: quick thing. Another thing that happened. You get the jurors
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: choose a foreman, and that's somebody who kind of just
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: keeps track of what people are thinking, and they are
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: the person that reads the like we the jury find whatever.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: And he was really good. At first. I didn't think
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: i'd like him. If you're listening, sorry, but at first
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: I didn't think i'd like him. But he was really
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: good at like checking in on are you feeling overwhelmed?
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: There was somebody else in the jury who had like
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: an auditory overwhelm kind of thing that would happen, and
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: if we were all yelling like we would take a break.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: And so he was really good at checking in on
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: all of that stuff. I would also say it was
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: almost all women on either side of the families that
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: showed up for the case. It was almost all women,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: and they were the ones giving the personal impact statements
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: at the end. Something else that I'm really still grappling
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: with is that I didn't answer yes to the have
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: you been the victim of a violent crime? And I
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: should have. And the fact is, because I knew it
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: was a gun violence case at this point, I was
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: thinking of it like that and I wasn't thinking about
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: sexual assault, but I should have. And in fact, afterwards
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I looked up with that count and it's a shame
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: and terrible to me that I had to look up
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: what that of counted. But that's something I'm going to
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: have to really work on. And then, of course, as
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: we talked about in our Women in Jury Duty episode,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: just the systemic issues of taking time off from your job,
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: like pay and travel and childcare and all of that,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: and hearing the women on the Jury Duty mostly talking
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: about like, I don't know how I'm gonna I gotta
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: get kids, I gotta do this, I gotta do this
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: because it is sudden, like you don't expect you're going
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: to get your right.
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: Well, also, you only had like a week right to
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: really try to figure out, Oh, okay, next week, I
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: have to do this. It's not like that quick. Well,
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: I mean I always thought that long. You don't have
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: like a three month planet ahead.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: No, I went in that day thinking I'd be home
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: that day, right, that was I don't know.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: You were pretty like ominous the way you were acting
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: seemed like you already thought you may be picked. The
• 23:20
  Speaker 4: way you were like, so may have Joey duty, cross
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: your fingers, and then we're both like hmm. And then
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: as you were like I'm here, I'm like, oh, do
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: you think you're like, no, I think I might be picked.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: No, I think I might be picked. As you were
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: like going throughout, like you kind.
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: Of hinted that you kind of weren't thinking that you
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: probably would, it seemed.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: I know I was because the first round of interviews
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: where they just kind of are like raised yes or no,
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: eraise your your number, I didn't raise it once, and
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, oh oh, And then I was
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: like maybe not because they had so many questions about
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: the true crime.
• 24:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but then nope, you got got it.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: But you know, overall I did have.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: It.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Would you classify as this is a ten to ten
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: experience or.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I am still recovering? It was a lot. I it
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: was a lot, But I did have like a good
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: experience with the jury. The fore men was really good.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I liked that the at the end, like the judge
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: came and talked to us, and the lawyer came to
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: talk to us, I thought that was cool. I liked
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: seeing these women be so outspoken and passionate about it.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know if that's normally the case on juries.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: I just know that this my experience, this was I
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: liked that people seem to really care about it, because
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: I also thought, you know, you're not allowed to talk
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: about it, even with your fellow jurors. So I had
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: no idea like if I was going to get in
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: and be the only one that was like, well, I
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: don't know about that, right, But people were really passionate
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: about it. The women were lawyers, the lawyers in this case, uh.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: And I did learn a lot. I know, it's kind
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: of Lauren made fun of me when I said that.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: She's like, that is the most house stuff works answer
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: I have ever heard.
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: But when we found out you were chosen to be
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: enjoy you were like, well, like, that's an episode.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's the way we think it is.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: It is. But I learned about like medical examiners and
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: forensic and cell phone data, which, by the way, he
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: was so excited someone was asking him about cell phone data.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I learned about all kinds of things, and yes, it
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: was inconvenient and traumatic, but I am glad that we
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: took it seriously and we did come to an agreement.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: And you know, at the beginning, it didn't seem like
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: we would because people were so all over the place
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: and you have to read They give you the laws
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: to read of what applies to these charges, and you're
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: trying to sit there and make sense of these like
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: legalese terms.
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: Right, they're trying to teach you law like your lawyer
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: within love, because like that's part of the problem in
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: any kind of jury case, you know. And I know
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: y'all remember from high school and we all had our
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: you know, jury type of thing where we all had
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: to protendre or whatever whatnot. And I was for me,
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: I was one of the lawyers, and it was about
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: like brutus and the murder of Caesar and all of that.
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: But like I remember, my whole defense with the case
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: was that yes, he we are not denying that he
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: murdered this person, but what we're saying is he did
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: it for the good of the country, and it wasn't
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: malicious murder, but it was for in defense. So like
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: this is not all these things, and none of the
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: kids understood it, and they would not hear because like, no,
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: you admitted it. He killed some merriers, But that's not
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: the point. The point is what type is this? This
• 27:17
  Speaker 4: is justified? Is this in self defense? Is this a
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: justified murder? Blah blah blah. What do we need to
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: look like? Like all these things, And my teacher was
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: actually really really impressed because.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: She was like that actually would have could have worked.
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: And you, you know, in the the lawyer because you're
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: thinking analytically instead of just like black and white. But
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: because laws are like that, people don't know, especially when
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: they have different charges and what they're trying to get
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: you to know and versus what is being charged, Like yeah,
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: sure we know he killed them, but you need to
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: figure out.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Is this self defense? Who shot first? Like who?
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: What was the intent or no intent? Like all of
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: these things timing and then telling you it doesn't matter
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: if he had like thought about it or didn't think
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: about it, and it was whatever it could be intent
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: because he thought about it right before he shot him.
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: Like all of those things that you were telling me,
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, those are things that we wouldn't know
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: as a layperson. So they have to teach you law
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: in order to try to teach you how to vote
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: about this person's wye, which is crazy.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: It was because there was the one that we ended
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: up charging finding him guilty on. It was two, but
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: the main one. I'd never in a million years would
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: have said that. But then when we were reading the law,
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, yeah, and it's very it's hard
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: to like go of the thought that, like, because they
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: kept telling us premeditation doesn't count, intent doesn't count. Oh, no,
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: intent counts, but didn't count for like one second, like
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: one second, one second, So it's not like the premeditation,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: I guess is the thing because you always think like, oh,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: they were thinking about it, but uh right, yeah, I
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: learned a lot.
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: But he also like he denied a plea, which took
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: things off the table. Yeah, so you couldn't give him
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: a lesser time for some things because he said, no,
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: I'm not guilty of any of this, so instead of
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: which kind of is a trickery that is done by
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: the prosecution sometimes not all the time, but sometimes where
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: it becomes a whole thing where they're like, you sign
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: this agreement without knowing what you signed, but you signed
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: it and we're going to use this against you, So
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: why don't you just take this plea and go with
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: this type of thing, and then they get harassed and
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: pushed into doing taking a plea deal even though they're like,
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: but I didn't do this, like nolo contendo contender, that's
• 29:34
  Speaker 4: all that. It's like, yeah, I must say I did it,
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: but I didn't do it, but I I'd rather not
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: go to the process and go possibly get prosecuted for
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: the worst thing.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: So another thing that happens is if you have questions
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: while you're deliberating, they bring you out, you submit them
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: via paper to the judge. They bring you out to
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: the whole everybody's waiting out there. You sit back in
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: your jury box and they answer the questions there. So
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: they knew we were thinking about, like can we give
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: a lesser charge? Can we do this? Can we do this?
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: So everyone knew like what we were thinking and it
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: was apparently turned down. And as I mentioned in the
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Women in Jury Duty, we got polled, which is just
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: when one of the lawyers in this case, it was
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: the defense goes through goes to every jar and asks
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: like did you arrive at this? You stand by it,
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: like all of that stuff to see if somebody up
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: a jur felt pressured and actually didn't agree, and we
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: had somebody who was like, nobody better pull some kind
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: of surprises. I didn't even know that that was that
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: was the thing, But afterwards I think I think they
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: were joking back. I'm she said something because I didn't know. Well,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: I think we would have kept talking.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, But anyway.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: I didn't know. There's a thing in Georgia called the
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: enlightened the enlightened conscience of the jury, which is almost
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: kind of the opposite of what you were talking about,
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: which is when a jury it's like, none of these
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: charges fit, but they should do time. So if we're
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: not going to get those other things, which apparently is
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: a real thing I hadn't heard about on it, we
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: did agree, if again, if anyone's listening, we did agree
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: with what we arrived at. But I looked that up
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: afterwards too, because I was like, what is that.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of things.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: It was a really high it was the sentence was severe,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: it was and it was like and it sucked because
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: it was a murder trial. It was a murder trial.
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: So we like we knew, no one's going to be
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: happy about this. No one's happy business.
• 32:02
  Speaker 4: It's interesting when you look at the different types of
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: charges that people go and this is why those charges
• 32:06
  Speaker 4: are really really important in what's petitioned because it does
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: make a huge difference. And we're talking about aggravated versus
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: felony like just single manslaughter like all of that.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Those are very important charges.
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: I was talking about for juveniles their felony levels, and
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: it's like the Seven Deadly Sins type of thing where
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: they can be called a designated felon. So they do
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: an adult type of charge, but they're not charged as
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: an adult yet, but they know they need a longer
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: time than just being on probation for two years, like
• 32:40
  Speaker 4: there's like, oh no, they have to start up at
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: least I want to say, seven years, or until their
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: eighteenth birthday or until their seventeen eighteenth birthday. So according
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: to what kind, if it is severe enough and they
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: are charged as an adult, they most likely if they're
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: younger than fourteen fifteen and their stature council a lot
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: so they're small, they will be placed in the juvenile
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: facility for a certain amount of times and then they
• 33:04
  Speaker 4: will get transferred to adults to serve the rest of
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: the time out but a lot of the times, like
• 33:09
  Speaker 4: the designate felon, and this is a Georgia thing. Every
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: state is very very very very very different. This designated felling,
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: which doesn't completely make sense to me, is specific to
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: the state of Georgia. But it's all those big laws again,
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: less rape, aggravated rape, murder, aggravated robbery that means there's
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: a gun involved. All of those things are very big,
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: big deals. Four years is four years that they have
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: to serve, and they are, but they're still technically a
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: juvenile and they unless again they are. They think it's
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: at age of fourteen? Is at twelve or fourteen in
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: the state of Georgia, I can't remember. They can be
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: charged as an adult. That's a whole different conversation. I've
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: had kids who are seventeen that they don't realize they're
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: in that weird era that they're technically an adult. So
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: anything that's a felony, you're gone. You're out of the
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: juvenile system and you're now completely into the adult system.
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: And i've kids not realizing that being told that there
• 34:02
  Speaker 4: were kids taking a gun with them when someone else
• 34:05
  Speaker 4: was being robbed. They were just there with a gun.
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: Bad y'all bad. So don't get me wrong, I'm not.
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: I'm not excusing any kids.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: I'm not.
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: But they don't understand the gravity because they really think
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: that they're still a part of the general system. And
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: then they get that charge at a very robbery and
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: it takes twenty it can be twenty years to twenty
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: five years of their life and they don't realize that,
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: and you're like, oh, you done that. One mistake was
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: a big mistake.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: It's huge, it is it is, and that was you know,
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: it was difficult because the victim impact samans they were
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: looking at us a lot of times and you're like, wow,
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: it should have been more than The other side, of course,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: is like it should have been less.
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: So the conversation of justice, no one feels like there's
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: been justice. I think, especially when there's a life loss.
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: There's no such thing. There's no such thing as justice,
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: and people have different understands in variation. And then again,
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: if if somehow they were influenced by their family to
• 35:05
  Speaker 4: live that life, it's hard to see that as well.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: It is and you have to to be clear, like
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: you have to make these decisions based on the evidence.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: So even if you have your like personal Oh, I
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: think this is what happened, or I think you have
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: to do it based on the evidence what you're supposed
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: to you're supposed to, and so that that's my point
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: is I feel I don't feel good about what happened,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: but I see I feel I feel good about like
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: we did talk through this and came it. But the previous.
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: Made the best decision you could on the things that
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: that was presented to you, what you were told.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, but the previous jury. I don't think this is
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: a surprise to anyone, but juries are notoriously fallible. But
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: the previous jury, the one person that made it a
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: hung jury said I just want to know why, And
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: so the state lawyer and are started her opening argument
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: with I can't tell you why for us, but wanting that,
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: like we said, you're not supposed to think about like
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: the motive and all that unless it's like you're trying
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: to prove some kind of like.
• 36:19
  Speaker 4: This was a murder based on like a spousehal killing.
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: That is absolutely absolutely important.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: It was just kind of comical. I mean, it was
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: interesting to see how different that jury went.
• 36:35
  Speaker 4: It sounds like that one person had too much empathy,
• 36:38
  Speaker 4: like he really needed to understand how human life could
• 36:43
  Speaker 4: be so easily lost. And it's not funny. I'm not
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: again like seeing the things that I've seen, the systems
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: that I've been a part of, the things that we've
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: had to talk about in order to like really make
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: it out alive, like as little trauma as possible, and
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: we got a lot of trauma off. But like what
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: comes down to is they are not going beyond that
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: moment and they didn't if they don't know if they
• 37:08
  Speaker 4: had known the results, would they would it react that?
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: Would they have reacted the same? We don't know.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: But they don't come in oftentimes with this ideal that
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: I'm going to do this or this is going to happen.
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: Like there's no real depth of future repercussions. They don't
• 37:24
  Speaker 4: understand future repercussions. And especially when we talk about teenagers
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: and kids, that's one of the big conversations we continually
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: have to have and why when we have conversations about
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: like heay, your brain's not really fully developed until twenty
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: five and even until then, if you're impulsive, if you
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: have ADHD, if you have a nature of pleasure like
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: trying to get what you want, immediately. It's really hard
• 37:47
  Speaker 4: for them to find a way to detach again their
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: response accountability versus their actions.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was not excusing crime. You can't. You can't.
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: There's no way that you can that that woman wanting
• 38:05
  Speaker 4: to know the why.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: That's really especially in a crime like that.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: Two seconds.
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, then this, like in this kind of situation, everything
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: was stacked against both of them in that they allowed
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: some build up, like society is apart, Like there's such
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: a it's such a big conversation and I'm going this
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: far because I'm like, no, I know what this woman
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: is thinking, Like I know what she really wants. She
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: wants to stay in her bubble and trying to figure
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: out how human life could just be so easily expendable
• 38:33
  Speaker 4: and it shouldn't be, it shouldn't be, but like try to.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: Figure that out.
• 38:37
  Speaker 4: Like she needed to know that motive, just to know
• 38:39
  Speaker 4: if this person was evil, Like she wanted to base
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: it on whether or not this person was evil.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, She's not always clear cut.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: No, not at all, not at all. And I will admit,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: like when we were doing our women in Jury duty
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: and we had all those quotes about like why they
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: were trying to keep women off Jerry's. One of them
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: was they're too empathetic, and I was really empathy. I
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: was like, oh no, but it was so it sucked
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: for everybody, right yeah. Yeah. Also closing, sorry, this is
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: so long ago. I'm not to say this Monday Miniu famous.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: One day, maybe I'll come talk about kind of famous
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: people involved.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: Right, Yes, if.
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: You're part of the hip hop world, you'll know what
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: we're talking about. If you've been following any of the
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: Trump stuff in Atlanta, you'll know what we're talking about.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: There's some big, big players here.
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh myle myle my. Okay, Well, if
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: you get Jerry Duty, I feel for you. But I
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: do think like there's value in having people who are
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: empathetic in care and having a diverse jury. So I
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: will say that that was my experience. I'm still kind
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: of recovering from it, but that was it.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Good job, Thank you, good way to serve your people.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you again to you and Christina and Caroline for
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: making it work. But yes, listeners, if you have any
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: questions about Jerry Duty, or if you have any experiences
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: with Jerry Duty or being in court or anything like that,
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: testifying please let us know. You can write to us
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: at stephaniea mom Stuff at i heeartmedia dot com. You
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast, or
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: on Instagram and TikTok and Stuff We Never told you.
• 40:30
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• 40:31
  Speaker 2: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: as always too our super producer Christina or executive pducer
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: My Andrew Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: listening Stuff I Never Told You Inspection by Heart Radio.
• 40:42
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• 40:43
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• 40:45
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