Latest / Let's Talk Podcasts from Feminist Podcasters Collective / She cut her podcast down to monthly (and nothing broke!)
Transcript
- Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (00:00) Welcome back everyone. We're here for another conversation with another member of the Feminist Podcasters Collective. Hello, Shanti. Shanti Joy Gold Shanti Joy Gold. Say hello. SJG (00:10) Hello, Becky, how are ya? Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (00:12) Thanks for being here and doing this. Before we go too far, tell people what your podcast is and how long you've been doing it. SJG (00:18) My podcast is stories we haven't shared and I'm coming up on my two year anniversary. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (00:24) Congratulations. That's very exciting. Two years SJG (00:25) Thank you. Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (00:27) in. Well, we are going to talk a lot about the like what made you decide to podcast, what your show is like, what changes you've made along the way of those two years, what's next. Before we do though, I like everyone to tell us why you podcast. SJG (00:40) I podcast to reconnect people to our shared humanity. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (00:47) that's a lovely message and we need it right now. I love that. And SJG (00:50) Yeah, yeah. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (00:51) is that was that the goal like when you decided to start a podcast, was it that or was it more like, I just want a podcast. What will I do? What was the driving factor in getting started? SJG (01:02) Well, I had explored the idea of podcasting with a former colleague and good friend of mine who had been doing it successfully for quite a while. She's a couple hundred episodes in at this point. And so we were thinking about doing something together. And in those conversations, I got far enough into the thought process that I thought, well, this is something that's interesting that you know is really possible for someone to do from nothing, right? You can start nowhere and actually do a podcast. So that never happened, which was fine. And then I just had an epiphany light bulb moment about an idea for my own podcast. in a nutshell, I had a what I would call my LinkedIn coming out. So basically, I in my career, I was in sales leadership in the media industry for the majority of my career. For the f first 10 years in media, I was hiding my relationship with my now wife actively at work, which was its own thing. but just kind of moved through that, got to my next job, came out at my next job, which I'll tell you more about in a sec. And and then I was essentially out in my work, but it wasn't until almost 20 years after that that I had what I would call my LinkedIn coming out. I pivoted into the world of professional coaching. I had a a a a a dawning moment about who I wanted to most serve, which was LGBTQ plus and underrepresented people. And then I said, well, this is absolutely what I want to be doing. And now I want to tell this story on LinkedIn, realizing I haven't even talked about this at all. So I I had that moment on LinkedIn in the process of sharing about this new coaching niche that I had identified and that I was excited about. I told my two coming out at work stories. I had these actual moments where I sat someone down and said, I'm going to come out to you now. I mean, not exactly like that, but that's essentially what it was. Super clunky, kind of funny in retrospect. But I shared those stories in this LinkedIn post. And I had two very close friends, one straight white guy, one straight white gal, who are, you know, open and curious and all of the things. And they said, I had no idea you went through that. And I had no idea, frankly, that anyone would go through having to come out at work because I'm it's not in my line of vision as a as a straight white person. And so thank you for sharing. It's I'm so glad I understand that story now. Please keep them coming. It's you know, the more that we learn about other people's journeys, the better, et cetera, et cetera. So that stayed with me. And It wasn't like the next day, but as all of that marinated, I said, Man, you know, if I wasn't sharing that story, or if somehow that story wasn't making it out into the world, why is that? What part do I play in that? You know, what are what are some of the other forces that may be at play? And more importantly, what's the opportunity there to start surfacing more of these stories and learning from each other and getting inspiration and feeling less alone and all of all of those things and as well as a space for allies to come in because this is these are primarily on the podcast stories from underrepresented people and also though a space for allies right people like my friends who say I I had no idea and I w I wish I could learn more about these types of stories. so that was the that was the inspiration, was really that LinkedIn post that got my my wheels turning. And in writing the trailer, it that line about, you know, stories are our humanity waiting to be shared, it it really came out and surfaced and never left. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (04:52) Yeah, there's that famous quote by somebody. I'm blaming all of this on Paramenopause, what I'm like my very lack of understanding SJG (04:57) Ha Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (04:58) on it. But the idea that we it's really hard to hate once you know someone's story, right? And that's just so true. It's it's the hate or it the hate is often around ignorance. Now, sometimes it's not, sometimes it is willful willful ignorance or just downright malice. But most of the time the hate is really about not understanding and about not knowing. And once you know and see and have empathy for an actual human who has an identity you previously didn't understand or know about, it changes everything. And so those stories matter. They're really powerful. And knowing that, did you have any nervousness, trepidation about about going into being the person to help share those stories? SJG (05:41) I'd say the nervous moment was the bigger coming out on LinkedIn moment, the, you know, hitting hitting post on that first post because that felt very vulnerable. the storytelling part and the and the facilitating those conversations was less scary for me because it's just that. It's just kind of like what we're doing. We're having a conversation. I I felt a responsibility to do it. justice, you know, and and to honor the stories and the people and the vulnerability with which they share, which just knocks my socks off still. but a little some strangely a little less pressure there, other than just trying to do do a good job of it, you know. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (06:21) Well, that's good because I think sometimes when they're starting podcasting, if they've not done it before, if they don't have like a journalism background or something, there will be this fear about needing to get it right and and have it be quote unquote professional or good enough. And sometimes that keeps people from starting. And I love, as you said, it's just a conversation, especially if you're doing an interview show. If it's solo, it's still really just a conversation between you and the listener. But either way, keeping it conversational, keeping it like taking off that pressure of it needs to be. Perfect polished whatever. So it's great that you weren't going into it with that. Did you have other worries though on the like the technical side of things about starting podcasting? SJG (06:58) I did. And so I actually hired a consultant. props to Alicia Galati, who's part of the Feminist Podcasters Collective. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (07:05) We love Alicia. SJG (07:07) because here's the thing. you know, you said, it's great that you were able to take the pressure off of yourself. I'm the worst at that. I'm also a perfectionist and an overthinker. And in approaching the idea of doing the podcast, I started to go down a lot of rabbit holes because that's what I do. And it's I noticed it. I kind of caught myself and I said, you know, there's people that do this and let's just bring someone in for the first few to facilitate me getting off the ground and to teach me. And then from there I sh you know, I feel like I'll be able to run with it. And that's so that's what I did. I kind of took it for me because I do have those tendencies. once I brought in the consultant, it took that edge off for me. so we did th I think the first three together and then like the rest is history. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (07:54) Yeah. And Nicole Havelka, who's also had a conversation about her show, did a similar thing where it was getting that initial help. And I think sometimes we think of hiring an editor or producer as like the entirety of the show. And it doesn't have to look that way. And what did having that help do for you? Like what shifted in getting that help just for those initial three episodes? What changed in your relationship to the podcast? SJG (08:17) Yeah, a lot. I mean, even just choosing, you know, which platform do I use was this decision. If I talked to ten people, I'd get ten different answers. And she said, Okay, we're gonna use this platform. And I said, Great. You know, just the the clarity and the the guidance in those ways. And then seeing that the editing process is not difficult. You know, it can it can take some time, but I happen to love podcasting. I really even enjoy the editing process. So it's just to see how how amazing the technology is and and the fact that it's very, very doable for anyone who has even the slightest interest in playing around with that sort of thing. So it took all really just the million questions out of it, let and let me focus on what you and I were talking about, which is the storytelling, right? With the confidence that I had some support behind me to bring those first few together and and to learn how it all works. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (09:15) I love it. It's like going to the Cheesecake Factory and the menu is overwhelming. She's like taking the Cheesecake Factory menu and saying, No, here's some of the things you'll be eating tonight so that you can just enjoy the things you're eating tonight and be like, fine. Right. I trust you as the chef to tell me SJG (09:22) Yes. Right. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (09:28) these are the best things on the menu. I'm gonna eat those. That's great. I think that's really smart to get that kind of help. So you've been doing it for two years now, primarily on your own after that initial start. SJG (09:37) Mm-hmm. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (09:38) What were like what has shifted for you? I know you've made some changes because I think sometimes we start a podcast thinking it's gonna look a certain way. And then we actually start doing and realize, I this doesn't work the way it's working for me. I need make some adjustments. How have you been adjusting things over time? SJG (09:53) The biggest well there are two. The biggest adjustment I made was I wrapped up season one and when I came back for season two, I went from doing episodes every other week to monthly. What happened? Yeah. Well Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (10:05) Yeah, that's the change I knew you made, so I'm interested to hear what else. So go ahead. SJG (10:09) that's the bigger so the the main thing there was that when I started the podcast I had a bunch in the can and I was way ahead of it and I don't know, life life, and it started to get tighter and tighter. And every other week it was a it was a lot of a lot of time. I I mean I looked at my calendar and saw that it was taking up perhaps, I don't know how you judge disproportionate, but what felt like a slightly disproportionate amount of my calendar, and the the turnarounds were getting tighter, and it started to sap just a little bit of the joy out of the whole experience. It's like, okay, I love doing this. So anything that's not feeling like it's aligned with how much this lights me up. Let me take a little pause. So I did season one, I wrapped season one, came back season two, doing it monthly, made all the difference. and, you know, the world didn't fall off its axis or anything. So it's it's it's working out great. the the only other one was to try to align the work that I do a little bit more with the podcast, but in a really organic seamless way when I go into a conversation with someone, I don't wanna have I don't want to be looking for moments to talk about my coaching and to try to interject coachy stuff into the conversation. At the same time, they are very aligned in terms of the work I'm doing to support LGBTQ plus and underrepresented people to like live their best lives essentially. And so I started a segment called The Thrive Takeaway, which then ties Back directly to an assessment that I created for my business called the Thriving Assessment. So it's just my opportunity in every episode to ask people for, you know, if there were one thing that people took away, what would it be? And so that they could thrive in their careers, and then to mention my thriving assessment to just bridge the two a teeny bit and start to make that association for people. Those are really the main two changes though. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (12:06) Well, the first one speaks to capacity, and I think that's so important because it would be while podcasting is really easy in that it, you know, you get a microphone and basic software and you you're good to go. It's not n without time and efforting, even with all the new tools that are out there and everything. There is still time just in finding guests, you know, booking them, interviewing them, editing, all of the stuff to get it actually out and scheduled, sharing it with the guests. Like that there is time involved in it. And so I think it's important to notice where is it taking up more time? And I love what you said. Like I'm starting to, it's taking some of the joy. And I think it's really good to check in with ourselves to have those cues of okay, there's something here that's not working. And I think sometimes that's when people just stop because they believe all the rules that it has to be weekly or it has to, you know, whatever the thing is. And so then they stop doing it altogether. And I love what you said. It didn't, the world didn't fall off its axis. What changes have SJG (13:00) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (13:01) you noticed? Has it mostly just been in your capacity and feeling better? Are you noticing anything from, you know, download numbers or people talking to you about the show or anything other changes from moving to him once a month? Yeah. SJG (13:12) No change, none other than my capacity feels more spacious. My numbers have actually stayed and sometimes grown, which I would imagine is just kind of the the momentum that builds over time kind of thing. Whatever it is, right? I don't know if if we could all figure out what drives the downloads and you know, we'd we'd be having that conversation. Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (13:31) We'd all have a million downloads. Yeah. SJG (13:34) But no, I I really haven't. There's been no it's just like kind of not skip to beat, which has been cool. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (13:39) We tell ourselves a lot of stories that usually don't end up being true, but some of that stuff can really s get us stuck. So I love that SJG (13:44) Yeah. Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (13:46) you're sharing that. Then and it's great that you mentioned the part about business, because that was the other thing I really wanted to ask you about. Was when you started this, it was related to the work you're doing, but it doesn't sound like from the start. I think a lot of people start their podcast with the thinking of how do I make a show that will get me clients, that will bring in money or whatever. And that wasn't your approach. and I personally am a fan of that not being the approach, so I think it's lovely. But when you were starting it, like did you think about the business at all? Has that only been something that's grown? Like what is your feelings about how the podcast and the business exist with each other? SJG (14:20) Yeah, I they're fairly mm, they're aligned. Sometimes I kinda say they're spinning like right next to each other. And as I said, that one tweak I made was just tr trying to bring the orbits a little bit closer together. I do the podcasts because I love doing the podcasts and I believe in the podcast. And anything to me that feels like I'm trying to morph it toward my business just doesn't feel in integrity. If in if it's not happening organically, of course when I'm having conversations with people, I live, eat, and breathe the coaching work that I do, and inevitably it winds its way into a conversation, but that's happening a hundred percent organically. so they're kind they're kind of orbiting near each other, and and then from there I think it just helps me establish kind of a voice for myself out there in the world, in the LGBTQ plus and underrepresented space. I feel good about that. I feel like it absolutely, you know, it has kind of put me forward with that with those communities in a way that that I'm proud of. I'm proud of the podcast. So whatever it is that comes from that is great. But it these are kind of indirect and I'm I'm a piece with Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (15:31) Yeah. Are are you noticing any outcomes that maybe you didn't expect at that relate to the business? SJG (15:38) You know, I I've definitely I'd say there's been a couple clients that I can attribute to hearing an episode and they were prospects and all of a sudden they were like, Okay, I get it now, I'm I'm ready. I had a another gig that I have that is a side gig that came from the podcast, but it was really kind of random and and unrelated directly. But I I also am putting more and more content out and I I feel like the seeds that I've planted are, you know, starting to take root within the communities that I'm speaking to because I'm getting more engagement perhaps than I have in the past. And I I just feel like ultimately that engagement will organically lead to more business. But that's that's about as closely as I can correlate them and and I'm okay with that. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (16:30) Yeah, and I mean you're finding your voice, as you said, and using your voice. And so I think that we don't always I think sometimes we discount anything that we can't directly attribute a dollar amount to. But the idea of being a quote unquote thought leader or whatever terms you want to use, having a voice in your space, whatever your space is, that may not be a direct correlation to dollars, but it almost always is something that will eventually start to pay off. And so I love that you're talking about. planting seeds and seeing those things grow. And also noticing that this is not a quick win. Like podcasting for most people is a long term game, right? It takes time to find an audience and for it to build and for that then to lead to something. So I love that you're focused on sustainability for yourself too. SJG (17:15) it's one of my favorite things I've ever done. That's it. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (17:17) That's awesome. Well, tell me I want to talk little bit about the content because I think that's probably the why of it being the best thing you've done or why you love it. So what has SJG (17:24) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (17:25) surprised you about the content? What has moved you the most? Like what are the stories or the the the response that you get that make you say, I don't care if I never get a client. This is something I want to keep doing. SJG (17:37) Yeah. So I describe it as a campfire style interview series where underrepresented people talk about the extra layers we navigate as we wind our way into the already complicated career landscape. It's again also for allies, both in terms of the audience and and being featured as guests, but it really combines my lived personal and professional experience. It sits right at the cross section of what matters to me and and what I've lived. And, you know, I started with historically marginalized communities. I mean we've had I've had obviously LGBTQ plus, I've had allies, I've had veterans, I've had disabled, I've had you know all different ethnicities. And then I'm expanding it into even, you know, my turns out my college roommate, the year between freshman and sophomore year, Lived out of a car because her mom had issues with mental illness that led to poverty, that led to housing insecurity, right? But it's this kind of larger definition of being an outsider. So I had a just recently a Holocaust survivor. you know, so I think the breadth of it has been really refreshing for me. just the range of humans that I've had an opportunity to speak to. The main thing, and I think I said it before, the The vulnerability, the level of vulnerability that people bring to these conversations kept like takes my breath away every time. And I feel so fortunate that they're showing up in in that way and sharing to the degree. I mean, if I didn't think that they there were interesting stories to tell, I wouldn't have been doing it in the first place. But when people really open up at that super deep Like I can't believe they're saying this necessarily publicly with so much ease and so much kindness, right? They want people to learn from their stories. That's been a a surprise in a great way. you know, my dad, of course, is my dad, so but i you know, take this with a grain of salt. But he listens to these stories and he says, Man, like I really had never heard that story before. I kind of like the original impetus for the podcast. I had no idea anyone went through that. How did they get through that? How did they land in such a beautiful place? And if everyone listened to your podcast, they would never complain about anything again in their entire life, right? Because just the the these experiences that are so deep and traditionally, and I didn't script it this way, but there's some sort of really deep challenge that people go through in their life because they've had to live it from the margins, from the outside, the the fear that goes along with that, the shame, the guilt, and then the kind of often some sort of a a critical moment that they hit that it's like, well, I gotta pivot or this is going to get ugly, kind of moment. And then they come out and the thing that was their biggest challenge is now their superpower. And I don't script it, it's just how it comes out. And it's it's really beautiful. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (20:44) I love that. And I'm curious on the flip side of that, because we talk so much about how does your podcast affect your business and and almost always focusing on like the bottom line. But what is being on the receiving end of these stories, having these amazing conversations, how has it shaped you or changed you as a coach over these last two years? What are you learning from it and getting from it? SJG (21:06) Well, it's funny, I I wanted to answer it first as a human, and then I'll get to coach. But as a human, it's made me it's given me the opportunity to be even more vulnerable and open about my own story and to realize how much there was still to tell. so it's really given me a lot of courage to go deeper into looking at and sharing my own story, which has been very cathartic. And as a coach I think it just reinforces the power of sitting in a room with someone and creating a a safe container and really just being deeply curious about who they are and helping that person bring their story to light because there's always learning and the potential for shifts that comes from that. So it you know, I think What I do as a coach and what I do on the podcast as a host are very closely woven together. And it just makes me feel each one just makes me feel better about the other. but you know, remembering the humanity of the person that I'm sitting across, I like to think I've always done that, but the podcast for sure, it just constantly reminds me to sit and be present with the human being that I'm engaging with. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (22:26) Mm. So nice. Well, because you're having conversations that you I mean, again, like not everyone has the opportunity in their life to sit and have a conversation with a Holocaust survivor. There aren't as many of them, you know, around anymore. So just because of that, most people don't get that opportunity. And so you're being exposed to conversations and and stories and experiences that you might not otherwise. And I would assume that really just continues to shape your level of understanding and and knowledge and all of that. So I love that you shared that. I just think for SJG (22:56) Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (22:57) coaches especially, it's really valuable. Like to not to remember the podcast is not, there are so many things that are benefits beyond just, is it bringing me dollars or is it bringing me clients? We can get so much from the experience of just being in conversation with people that we might not otherwise, because if we didn't have a podcast, those people might not agree to sit down and have a conversation with you. But now suddenly you're getting to have conversations with people you might not otherwise. SJG (23:21) Absolutely. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (23:22) okay, I appreciate all of this, Shanti. And as we wrap up. I want to have SJG (23:25) Yes. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (23:25) you first share what is the worst advice you've ever gotten about a podcast, about your podcast, and what's the best advice that you've gotten. So I'm give you a second to think about that while I talk. But and it doesn't even have to be advice given specifically to you, just be advice that you hear about podcasting that you think is not great advice or wouldn't serve you. And then what's the good stuff. So we'll start with the bad first. SJG (23:45) Yeah. I think we alluded to it before in terms of the worst, which is that there's some sort of correct formula, right? You should put out this many episodes of exactly this length this often. And if you don't, then don't even bother, right? I so I think the the rigidity that a podcaster or potential podcaster might hear, that's to me the worst advice. I think that you you know, everyone's unique and It's a very creative process and there are probably as many ways to go about it successfully as there are human beings on the planet. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (24:18) what's what's some good advice you've gotten? Doesn't even have to be the best. Let's not put that pressure on it, but just good podcasting advice you have gotten or that you would give. SJG (24:26) Yeah, to make sure you c continue to love it, right? I mean, and that we talked about that a little bit earlier too, but to check in and be sure that you're doing it from a place of love and that it's lighting you up and that you feel good about what you're delivering out there. because why would you do it otherwise, right? I mean, even go back, I had a career in sales and I used to say to folks in sales all the time, if you don't love what you're doing, like we gotta really look at that because, you know, sales is a grind and there's rejection, there's all the things, right? So you have to do it from a place of love. And I feel that way with podcasting too, there you just put so much heart and energy into it. And the only reason to do it is because it's something that you feel just elated to be doing. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (25:12) Yeah. And I I couldn't agree more. And I think it's easy sometimes in the day-to-day, the grind of just producing a show to sometimes forget that or lose sight of it. So I love to come love that you're saying let's go back to that. Because and and then like you said earlier, check in with yourself. If something is starting to if you're starting to notice that joy dissipate, it's a good place to explore what changes need to be do I need to make, whether it's frequency of the show or the kinds of conversations I'm having or even like the entire Premise of the show, whatever it is, what changes do I need to make so I can get reconnected to the joy? Because the joy is what sustains you. If you're only worried on download numbers, if you're only worried on sponsor dollars or, you know, those other metrics, those aren't typically going to be the things that sustain you. But that joy, the the thing that you get from doing it, that'll sustain you. SJG (26:01) I think you just have to check in kinda the beyond like a the deeper level and and see how it's how it's feeling. And don't be afraid, you know, to pause and reset, which is which I did between season one and season two. And again, that that was fine and and that was what was needed. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (26:15) And the world didn't stop spinning on its access. Yes. All the ways SJG (26:17) Exactly, yeah. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (26:18) the fears that we have are usually not founded. and I didn't ask you, but I guess before we go, I should have about community. And it doesn't have to be about the podcast collective specifically, but I mean, you know, you worked with Alicia in the beginning, you have a community of listeners, you obviously are in the podcast collective, so there's some community support there. What role does community play for you in the podcasting journey? SJG (26:39) Yeah, a big role. I I think just it's kind of can be a lone slash lonely process of sitting in a room and and doing doing the the interviews and the work behind it. So seeing other people do it successfully, having a place to go to get feedback, which you know, the collective provides so beautifully, and to learn from each other and mm, you know, help not get discouraged, help remember what matters. I mean That that's it. It's just it's it's a really, really important part of it. And I do feel too, you know, even just from back to the technology s standpoint, you could I I would probably worry like, well, is is is there something technologically that I'm missing because I'm not keeping up with it? So just having the security of knowing that there are people around who are talking about all of the aspects of it so that I don't have to constantly be sort of scanning the universe to say, is there something that I'm not thinking Going about that I should be thinking about. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (27:38) Yeah. thank you. I'm glad you're part of our community. And I know you have a community of listeners too that obviously appreciate the work you're doing. So where do people who have not yet discovered your show, where can they go to learn more about it? SJG (27:51) Probably the easiest is to go to my website, which is shantijoygold.com, S H A N T I J O I G O L D dot com. that's really my home for everything, including the podcast. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (28:03) Perfect. And I'll share the links in the description or show notes or wherever you're getting this so that you can go and find it and SJG (28:09) Yes. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (28:09) listen on your podcast player. Do you do YouTube as well? Perfect. So you can also go to YouTube. All right. Well, thank you, SJG (28:12) Yes, I do have a YouTube channel as well. Yes. Yeah. Becky Mollenkamp, she/they (28:16) Shanti. I appreciate your time today. Thanks for doing this. SJG (28:19) I appreciate you. Thanks, Becky.