Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Peter Taunton - Founder of Snap Fitness | Building a $200M Fitness Empire

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Peter Taunton - Founder of Snap Fitness | Building a $200M Fitness Empire · Success Story with Scott Clary

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  If you have a company that's growing like rocket fuel, people are always trying to pick off your
• 1:12
  leadership. If you don't make your leadership feel heard, they're always going to have one year
• 1:16
  to the ground. In 2003 Peter Totten had a vision to create an affordable 24-7 results driven gym
• 1:23
  experience challenging the overpriced impersonal big box model. That vision became snap fitness now
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  with 2,500 locations in 26 countries. I'm 22 years old. I'd quit college. I had no plan B. I was just
• 1:36
  looking for something that I felt I could love. At the time I was a professional racquetball player
• 1:40
  and the job that was thrown in front of me was to turn around this failing health club. I had turned
• 1:44
  that club from losing 200,000 a year to making about 250 grand a year. Over the next 10 years,
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  I built seven clubs. As founder and CEO of Lift Brands, Peter expanded further building one of
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  the largest wellness franchise organizations in the world. He's been named Ernst and Young
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  Entrepreneur of the Year, featured in Forbes and Entrepreneur and remains dedicated to helping others
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  achieve personal and financial freedom. With me was snap fitness. I took an idea to my first
• 2:09
  exit which was six years later. So an idea on a legal pad to my first exit six years,
• 2:15
  a company valued at a hundred million dollars. That is how fast it can happen. Don't underestimate
• 2:20
  the value of peace in your life. Today we unpack his journey building a global brand and what it
• 2:25
  really takes to succeed. Welcome to success story on your host, Scott Clary. The success story
• 2:33
  podcast is part of the HubSpot podcast network. HubSpot not only supports this show but they support
• 2:38
  entrepreneurs. That's why it's such a huge fan of HubSpot and I'm very grateful for HubSpot
• 2:41
  for supporting the show because they help entrepreneurs and as a fellow entrepreneur, I know it takes a lot
• 2:47
  to grow your business. A lot of audience attracting, a lot of sales, a lot of marketing, a lot of
• 2:52
  lead scoring, a lot of channel management, a lot of content, a lot of long days, late nights,
• 2:57
  a lot of weekends, a lot of wishing there wasn't easier way but there is. With Breeze,
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  to close deals fast, which means pretty soon your company will have a lot to celebrate. Visit
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  HubSpot.com slash marketers to learn more. Peter, you spent eight years grinding away at
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  a single gym location before you built your empire. That runs counter to how a lot of people
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  look at entrepreneurship where they try and fail as fast as possible and sort of move on to the
• 3:45
  next thing. Growing up, what was the lived experience or the inflection point in your life
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  that allowed you to think that I can stay in this for a long time. I can stick it out. I can
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  sort of persevere. I think that that's a remarkable quality. I think more people should have that
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  quality, not a lot of people do. You know what? I think it's important to understand
• 4:12
  where I come from. At the time at that club that you're talking about, I'm 22 years old,
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  I'd quit college. I had no plan B, so I was just looking for something that I felt I could love.
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  At the time, I was a professional racquetball player and the job that I was put in that was thrown
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  in front of me was to turn around this failing health club. They paid me $16,000 a year. Now,
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  this is a club that historically had been losing money every year. There was five owners
• 4:44
  and they said, Peter, 16,000 a year, but here's the punch line. You could turn this thing around.
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  You will let you buy us out with the profits. Well, look at me. 22 years old, rocking a mullet
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  couldn't find my ass with both hands. I had an opportunity to try to turn around this failing
• 5:02
  health club. Now, when you have no plan B and when you grow up, not dirt poor, but when you grow
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  up with less than, you're just looking for opportunity. I always say opportunity, it doesn't knock
• 5:15
  at whispers. You've got to pay attention to where those opportunities reside. I'll be honest with
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  you. I didn't know at the time that that was going to be my springboard to building one of the
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  largest wellness brands in the world. But I leaned in and was determined to turn that club around.
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  And I did it through a number of different things. So for me, the first thing was, how do you stop
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  the bleeding? You know, I always tell people when you're digging a hole, sometimes the first thing
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  you need to do is stop digging. So I looked at how are we spending money? How is, why is this business
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  not cash flowing? It was just complacent. How did you know this stuff at 22? That's, you didn't
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  let. I mean, I give a lot of kudos to my father who put me to work at eight years old selling popcorn
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  in front of his grocery store. And having a front row seat to watching my dad get in and work at
• 6:05
  this grocery store, it was a small grocery store in the hometown that I grew up in. But when you see
• 6:10
  that and you have a front row seat to that, that's now you understand what an honest age work looks
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  like through the lens of an eight year old. My dad would get up at dark, he'd get home at dark,
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  he'd work all day. I mean, you just saw it and you lived it and you breathe it. And if that's
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  all you ever see, then you say, okay, that's what work life looks like. And my dad being, he owned
• 6:33
  his grocery store in this small town of ours. He would share some of the experiences in family
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  conversations, predominantly with my mother or with his friends. But when you're eight years old,
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  you're listening to everything. You love sitting around those adult conversations and getting little
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  nuggets of gold. I didn't know that I would use some of that. But what my father taught me,
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  and literally in the first exit of my first company, I told my dad and it was for 47 million.
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  And it was made public in the paper. I don't know why. But my dad called me and he said,
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  son, did I read this right? Did you sell your company for 47 million? And I told him, well, dad,
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  I sold 40% for 47 million. And then in the same breath, I said, hey, dad, I can never repay you
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  for the work ethic that you taught me from eight years old. I'm forever indebted to you to give
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  me that character and that fight and that grit. So I don't take that stuff lightly. That's why it's
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  when I see entrepreneurs out there today that have, and it's one of my favorite words, grit,
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  meaning they're not quitters. They're not going to cow or when things get tough,
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  they're not going to throw in the towel. They're going to step back. They're going to brush
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  themselves off and they're going to recalibrate and press forward. Those are great qualities.
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  So I mean, you picked up a lot of this work ethic from your dad, which I think is actually
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  it's beautiful that you actually understood that. And in the fact that he gave you that opportunity
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  at a young age too, I think that's absolutely beautiful. So at 22, you get this opportunity
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  and you lean in. You just lean it. Okay. So you and I cut you off before. I'm sorry. I was just
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  curious sort of where that all came from because even that, I don't think many people have the balls
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  to jump into that opportunity at 22. That would scare a lot of people. Maybe they don't even
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  realize how serious an opportunity that could be. It's a lot. Well, you know what? I will tell you,
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  the first day on the job there, when I came in and I was awarded the opportunity, I'm 22,
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  just about every employee was older than me. Okay. It was this health club and some of the people
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  had been there a long time, some of them in their mid 30s, mid 40s. Here comes this guy 22 years old
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  and now he's the manager. He's the guy that I'm reporting to. Right. So there was and I walked
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  around this club with a yellow legal pad and a pen and I'm writing down things that need to be
• 9:12
  done. Okay. And I went to the entire staff and I said, look, everybody, we need to show up tomorrow
• 9:18
  morning because we're going to we're going to give this club a deep clean. The club was filthy.
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  Nobody cared. So we're going to give it a deep clean. Everybody show up. So the next morning,
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  I show up, everybody's there. And I'm just getting ready to divide the group, the people into groups
• 9:33
  to divide and conquer this club. One of the people steps forward since Peter, I have just
• 9:38
  something to say that we'd like to address before we clean. And that's a by all means,
• 9:44
  ladies name was barb. She says, we weren't hired to clean. Okay. Now keep in mind day one on the job.
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  I'm 22 years old and it's like a freaking mutiny or okay. And I'm 22 now that was a character
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  building moment for me because I could have said barb, you're exactly right. What was I thinking?
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  Anyone who doesn't want to clean, feel free to go. And by the way, that's tough when everyone's
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  older than you too. No question, right? They're not they and we seriously, I could have said that.
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  But instead I looked at their eye and I said, Hey, Barb, and you also don't have a job. And I
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  pointed to the door. You could have heard a pin drop. Okay. People knew holy shit.
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  Who is this guy? I mean, literally day one. Peter just wants you to know we weren't hired to clean.
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  And you also don't have a job. I mean, that was a pivotal moment. Now she ended up staying.
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  And I did it. I did eat up the jobs. And when it came to the bathrooms, the toilets, I took that.
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  So that sent another message across the bow. It said that it's told everyone, hey, look,
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  this guy, he's not playing. But he's also he's going to get in there and get dirty. And I learned
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  that from my father as well. I mean, my dad at his grocery store, he owned the grocery store.
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  You would see him shoveling the sidewalk, carrying out groceries, working the till, doing the
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  books, stocking the shelves. He did it all. He put himself above nothing. And what that did for him
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  is you stand back and look at it. You can see it now that it made all of his employees so
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  committed and dedicated to him because they knew that he was right there for him.
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  All right. And that's that's great leadership in my opinion. And I've I've carried that with me
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  my entire business career 40 some odd years. So that's very wise. So you how you you put your
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  foot down, but you're not putting it down from a place of I'm better than you. It's you're putting
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  your foot down from the place of we're all doing this. We're all in this together. We're going to
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  figure this out. Yeah. Look, it's always a slippery slope. I always say never let the inmates run
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  the asylum. Okay. And that's true in business. You got to lead. Okay. You can't lead by consensus.
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  That's not leadership. Okay. So you're not always going to be popular. But I tell you what,
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  when you know what, when things get tough, when shit hits the fans, so to speak, can I be candid
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  by the way on this? Yeah. Okay. When when when when shit hits the fan, you know, it's like Jack,
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  Jack, Jack, Jack Nicholson, you want me on that wall? Okay. You got to have a leader. Okay. Who's
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  not going to power? Who's going to make choices? And depending how big your company gets,
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  you're making decisions for hundreds of families. Okay. That are banking on you making the right
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  decision every day because their livelihood is banking on that, right? So leadership is not
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  for the faint of heart, right? Do you think because some people listening to this definitely agree,
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  some people probably think that not being top down and having input from the bottom up
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  can also help make great opinions. So and I think that for some things, that's true. I think it
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  is important to have ideas coming from everywhere in the organization. So to balance those sort of
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  too conflicting ideas, so top down versus bottom up or when should leadership be top down sort of,
• 13:23
  it's my way and this is how we're doing it. And when is the time for including all those other ideas
• 13:28
  to help the company? I think that's a great question. And I think that the culture that you create
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  within your four walls is going to lend to that. So in my case, I always had an open door policy.
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  Look, and people respected it. I mean, some people say open door policy and then no one ever comes in.
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  But I literally, I had an open door policy, meaning if you've got something that you feel like
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  you can't go to your direct report because I had different divisions within the company,
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  they had a report. And I would, those are the people that would report directly to me. However,
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  I wanted the culture to be in such a way where anyone, even from the office receptionist,
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  that if she's got something weighing heavy on her heart and she wants to talk to me, I always
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  take those conversations. So I think great leadership is also not putting yourself above others.
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  Look, understanding the role that you play, but getting input from people from your team is one
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  thing, but it's another thing altogether to go around the boardroom and say, can I get a show of
• 14:33
  hands? Okay, because look, you're banking. What you're doing is you're asking people their opinion
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  on something that if it's a critical component of the success of the business,
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  they don't have the historical knowledge to know. They don't know what they don't know.
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  And you know what, that's, I think that's poor judgment on a CEO's part to get a consensus when
• 14:57
  potentially 80% of the people in the room have no historical experience to give you
• 15:03
  substantive input. And I think that it could, I think that a CEO that defers judgment
• 15:10
  because it makes the, it makes the decision feel more safe. Right. Right. It's not
• 15:16
  all my fault. Yeah. It doesn't go right. And you know what, when I, when I pass, when I'm in a
• 15:22
  board meeting and I want input from my team, I typically, I'm getting it from the department heads
• 15:29
  whom the decision is going to affect. Okay. So I don't have every division in the company there
• 15:34
  to participate just for just so I have a head count, but I have the appropriate people in the room
• 15:39
  who it's going to be affected. And I'll ask them, I'll go around. I always ask the opinion of people
• 15:44
  first, because if I give my opinion first, everyone's just going to fall in line. Yeah. Okay.
• 15:50
  A whole bunch of yes, Matt. You got it. So I'm going to go around and get that input. And then
• 15:55
  what I'll typically do is come back. And when I'm asking the question, I already know the answer.
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  Okay. So I'm not, but I'm wondering for myself, have I missed anything? Okay. And, and then after
• 16:08
  that we go around, I'll say, look, here's what I'm thinking. And then I'll lay my plan out, my
• 16:12
  strategy out. And if somebody has got something a nugget that made sense, maybe then I quite all
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  the way there. I'll turn around and I'll say, Hey, Scott, I like what you said there. I like that
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  point. But I'm going to try to incorporate that. Let me, let me sleep on that one, but I like where
• 16:28
  you're going with it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You're, you're incorporating. You're still
• 16:32
  incorporating. You got to know where you're going, but you also know at the same time, there could be
• 16:36
  ideas that could add to what you're trying to do. You got it. And I think when you, when you
• 16:41
  lead like that, those people, they feel like number one, very important that your department heads
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  because if you go, if you have a company that's growing like rocket fuel, like mine was, people
• 16:53
  are always trying to pick off your leadership. Okay. Very important. So if you don't make your
• 16:58
  leadership feel heard, they're always going to have one year to the ground. Okay. For the opportunity
• 17:04
  that comes along. So for me, I always tried to keep opportunity in front of my department heads,
• 17:10
  growth opportunities within my department by acquisition of other brands and things. I wanted
• 17:15
  my team. And then the other thing that I did with, with my leadership, I gave them equity in the
• 17:20
  company, but the equity would only vest on the next liquidity event. Okay. You quit the company.
• 17:26
  You don't get anything. You get zip. Okay. Why, why did I do that? Because turnover, especially in
• 17:32
  areas like IT, you hire another IT person. You got to bring them in. You got, you got to ramp them
• 17:38
  up to what you're doing. I mean, it's honestly, in, in my opinion, when it comes to IT, they're probably,
• 17:45
  they're probably 30 days in before they're really pulling deep on. I could be for a lot of
• 17:51
  departments. I could be for sales usually a 90 day ramp. I mean, depending on how fast you move
• 17:57
  them, yeah, but everything. But yeah, I mean, like IT, I guess it's like mission critical, like,
• 18:02
  you know, stuff can't back down stuff. Yeah. That won't stuff. Okay. So we'll go into, we'll go into
• 18:07
  sort of how you grew, snap, but I want to go back to that first club. So this is your first
• 18:15
  real business, right? This is the first thing that you're building. How do you turn that around?
• 18:22
  And then how did it start to turn into something that it when I knew I had something?
• 18:28
  So what was the thing that it had? Okay. Well, the first day was a great day because it really
• 18:33
  set a precedent. Okay. And I said, look, this is all about, I let the staff know we're in the service
• 18:42
  business. Okay. We're not in the gym business. We're in the service business. So the guest
• 18:48
  experiences everything. It starts with the club in us. Here's what needs to happen. The club
• 18:52
  needs to be clean. The equipment needs to be in great working order. It doesn't need to be brand
• 18:56
  new because quite honestly, this membership base is not a cost under that because we've been,
• 19:03
  we've been using duct tape and bubble gum forever here. So once we get cash flow, then it's,
• 19:09
  then I plan to put that money back into equipment to everything that we can to give the club a
• 19:16
  facelift. So it started to guess experience. I said, every person comes in. I want to, I want
• 19:22
  them greeted. So we started with how do we greet them? And I was at that front desk,
• 19:28
  a good, good part of the day, calling people by name. And so my staff could see it. And literally
• 19:34
  within, within 45 days of taking that gym over, I've been, I, I bet I replaced 30, 40% of my staff
• 19:43
  because they weren't willing to lean in. They weren't willing to raise the bar above their ankles.
• 19:49
  You know, I would say anyone can be an all-star if you set the bar at your ankles. And there's
• 19:52
  some truth behind that. Look, you got to show up. You got to show up. You got to greet people,
• 19:57
  call them by name when they're coming in. Thank them for coming in when they leave. That's,
• 20:02
  that's critical because the only thing you're bringing to the party today is your smile and your
• 20:09
  appreciation for their loyalty to keep their membership. Okay. You're not, you're not winning
• 20:14
  them over by great equipment. All right. So then once I got felt like I had that organized,
• 20:20
  the second thing is what can I do? We have no money. We have no budget. Keep in mind the club was
• 20:25
  losing 200,000 a year. Okay. When I went back to the owners and said, what is my marketing budget?
• 20:30
  They looked at me, marketing budget. Maybe you didn't hear us. We lose 200 grand a year. We have
• 20:35
  no cash flow. Okay. So they're just keeping it alive just in on the hopes. Every year,
• 20:40
  these guys are kicking in 50,000 eachers five, you know, four or four or five owners, right? So
• 20:47
  knowing that that's what I'm dealing with, I went around that community and I was, I was the king
• 20:52
  of barter. All right. I went to a carpet store and I said, look, I don't have money, but I have
• 20:58
  memberships. I'll give all your employees a membership at my gym in trade for carpet. All right.
• 21:05
  And when I, and, and, and surprising, I mean, I got 10 knows before I got a yes, but I just kept
• 21:10
  pounding, right? And carpet, paint, plants, you name it. Okay. And when I, when I did the facility,
• 21:19
  the club was about 40,000 square feet. So it was a midsize club. But I started at the front door
• 21:25
  and I worked my way out the back door because you never got a second chance for a first impression.
• 21:30
  When people came into that club after, because this thing was a dive. Okay. They come in,
• 21:35
  they start smelling fresh carpet, fresh paint, plants. I mean, they're starting, they're going,
• 21:40
  hey, wait a minute, right? So they knew that there's something different about this guy, this guy
• 21:45
  being me and the community rallied behind me. Okay. I mean, like nothing you've ever seen before.
• 21:52
  If there was a parade, I was in the parade. I went to every business and gave out free trial
• 21:59
  memberships, come try my club. And I was getting high conversions, right? So I, I had turned that
• 22:05
  club from losing 200,000 a year to making about 250 grand a year. I turned that club around in
• 22:11
  about four years to where now when, when you're generating that kind of cash flow, I was throwing
• 22:18
  in at those owners to get equity. Okay. And in eight years, I had over 51% equity in that business.
• 22:26
  That's what allowed me to go to a local bank and refinance the business. Okay. Once I had the
• 22:33
  tipping point where I now controlled the business, then I went to a bank, little local local bank,
• 22:39
  farmer state bank of all places. Okay. They gave me a loan, paid everyone off, and then refinance it,
• 22:47
  gave myself a little cash, more cash flow, started investing in equipment and the rest of
• 22:52
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• 24:18
  Those are great stories. You grinded it out for eight years before you were able to do this, but
• 24:23
  that's even what you did was a very strategic play. I think it was a very strategic play. When
• 24:29
  when was the point when you realized that you actually wanted to not only just own this,
• 24:34
  but you saw a bigger vision? Because some people probably could have just been okay,
• 24:38
  well, I'm going to buy out the owners. I'm going to make 200 whatever, I don't know how much
• 24:44
  of Jim was cash flowing, maybe a tap of a million, maybe it's a million, whatever. This is a great
• 24:47
  business. I'm going to try and get 100% of this and I'm just going to triple down on this one.
• 24:52
  Yeah, I have a great one. You didn't think that. You're like, I want to copy and paste this as many
• 24:56
  times as possible. There's a lot of risk in that too because just because one works doesn't necessarily
• 25:02
  mean the next one works because now you have a whole bunch of other problems. You have to solve
• 25:07
  and foot traffic and different demographics and different city and different incomes and
• 25:10
  different all that. So what was the thing that made you want to say, I'm not just happy with this.
• 25:15
  I want to keep going. It's, look, I think the the drive I was ambitious for one and I thought
• 25:24
  I had there was another town that was about 40 minutes from this town that I grew up in, which
• 25:29
  is where that health club was. And that town didn't have much of a gym at all. And I just thought
• 25:35
  one day, I'm going to I'm going to build another club because I had cash flow and my decision was
• 25:41
  based on what would it cost me to build that club? Do I have enough cash flow here to cash
• 25:47
  with that one? So even if that one doesn't make any money, does it sink the ship? Okay. So I'm
• 25:52
  playing an ultra conservative. I'm not going to think, and okay, I need to do 40 grand a month
• 25:57
  to for this thing. No, I said, look, I got to make sure that this thing can cash full that one in
• 26:02
  the event. This goes sideways. Very conservative. Well, I built that club and that club perform,
• 26:09
  well, the community embraced it. Now, keep in mind, that was a brand new club. And I didn't put
• 26:15
  I didn't put in swimming pools. I didn't put in childcare. I kept it, I kept it, you know, neat,
• 26:20
  the bread and butter of what you needed at that time to for people to want to buy a membership.
• 26:26
  And it was successful. And then honestly, over the next 10 years, I built seven clubs. Okay.
• 26:32
  Okay. So a little bit less than one a year. Yeah. And I tell you why I did it. When I built that
• 26:37
  second club, that club almost immediately cash flowed. Okay. Like literally out of the gate,
• 26:42
  I was never feeding it. So now I've got two businesses that are spinning up cash.
• 26:48
  I build a third one. Well, we'll be hold. Same thing. All right. And I'm looking at the markets.
• 26:54
  I'm putting them in midsize markets because less, less national competition. So my only competition
• 27:02
  was another locally owned little gym or maybe a YMCA. But not a big, there wasn't at this time,
• 27:07
  there wasn't like the lifetime witnesses of the worlds and all these other players. So it
• 27:12
  look, it worked out for me, right? I did it seven times. And then, and then I sold that. I sold it.
• 27:17
  I was, I was about probably close to 40. And that was the 47 million. No, no, no, that was,
• 27:24
  that was literally when I sold those gyms and, and paid everything off, I had about three million
• 27:31
  in my checkbook. Oh, so it was a relatively small exit compared to everything else. Okay. Yeah.
• 27:36
  Yeah. Okay. So I keep on doing three millions. Great. But it's not 47. It's not 200. No,
• 27:40
  no, that's right. And that was my life savings. Okay. It was my life savings. And when I sold that,
• 27:47
  the one of the people that had worked for me was not happy. And he had been with me for about
• 27:52
  10 years, was not happy with the group that I had sold the business to. Was it private equity?
• 27:57
  I don't know. Just a private, private individual, a couple of guys that bought the business. And,
• 28:02
  you know, the culture changed as what that happens, right? Well, and he was talking to me because
• 28:08
  he just requested a Peter, would you, would you ever consider building me a gym? I'll run it.
• 28:14
  You know, you don't have to be involved with it if you don't want to. And I know you're trying to
• 28:17
  get out of this and do something else. And yet he, he, he probably asked me five or six times
• 28:23
  before I finally gave it consideration. And then I did it. And, you know, that, that was
• 28:29
  snap fitness. And, you know, it was a, at that time, those clubs were 2,500 to 3,500 square feet,
• 28:37
  smaller footprints. And all I did was, was replicate what was being done in hotels across the country.
• 28:44
  Keep in mind, you have your room key, you're going in your workout, those hotel gyms,
• 28:49
  they're not staffed. You're going, you grab your workout, you go back to your room, you shower it,
• 28:54
  the same premise. So I always say what I did was I brought something that was under our noses.
• 29:00
  And I just brought it to the doorsteps of, of every strip mall and every, in every town across
• 29:07
  this country. I mean, and I didn't, when I set out to do it, I wasn't, I didn't know that I was
• 29:12
  going to build thousands of gyms. I didn't, I didn't know at the time. But I knew that what I had,
• 29:19
  I built one in, in an urban market, and the club cash flowed. In 90 days, I sold enough
• 29:24
  memberships to cash flow the business for the year. I was really, keep in mind, I had, I had one,
• 29:30
  brought one and a half to two employees in the entire gym. Okay, very low overhead. Yeah.
• 29:36
  So you don't need to sell a lot of memberships to make that work, right? It's like your rent,
• 29:39
  and you're quick at that. Yeah. It's just, it was just so easy. And I, and I'm thinking, okay,
• 29:45
  I don't need to have 500 or a thousand members here. I can, these things cash flow on 200
• 29:50
  memberships. Here's a town of 10,000 people. I can certainly sell 200 people on exercise, right?
• 29:57
  Well, look, the dogs ate the dog food, right? I put it in an urban market. I sold it up in 90 days.
• 30:04
  I said, so now I was, I was intrigued by what was happening. I said to this guy again,
• 30:11
  I'm going to build another one. I built it in another, a different size town, a mid size market.
• 30:17
  The club performed the same way. The unit level economics fell into place, which is important
• 30:22
  for any of your listeners out there that are expanding their business. Does your business work in
• 30:27
  any size market? For me, putting this gym in a mid size market, the rent is less, the overhead is
• 30:33
  less. Therefore, I need less memberships to cash flow it, right? Did it same, same thing happen
• 30:38
  mid size market? Well, then I said, I'm going to put it in a town of 3,500 people. Now,
• 30:45
  I put it in that town, and that was the first time I was ever thinking about a franchise, because
• 30:51
  I knew if this works in this town, I can put it across the entire country, all right? You've
• 30:58
  hit every market. I've hit, I've hit urban. I've hit mid size. I'm going to put it in this town
• 31:02
  of 3,500, and I was married at the time. I remember Chalamet, why? I'm going to put it in this
• 31:06
  little town. It was Coketo, Minnesota, population 3,500 people, literally a one-stop light town,
• 31:13
  and I said, I'm probably going to lose my ass, but I got to know, right? I put it in there,
• 31:17
  well, the rest is history. I mean, it performed just like the others. In that little town, I remember
• 31:22
  my rent was 1200 a month, and that included utilities. I mean, it was so bare bones, I needed about
• 31:28
  140 memberships to cash flow of business. I had like 300, 300, 400 memberships. I'll
• 31:34
  go up because there's no other gym in this town either. Yeah, you got no competition. And what
• 31:38
  happens is people just get behind it, because now there's suddenly a place where they can go in
• 31:42
  and exercise. Yeah, and it probably turns into a little bit of one concept that I love is Starbucks,
• 31:48
  and like the third place or the, so it's like, you have your work, you have your home,
• 31:53
  then you have this other thing that's a little bit communal. Exactly. Right. And that's what
• 31:58
  for metany people, gym is that thing too, because they go all the time, they sometimes
• 32:02
  like they spend too much chatting, whatever. That's not the point. Yeah. Yeah. No, they have
• 32:05
  their friends there. Right. I think comes a little, a little, a little sub community. Yeah,
• 32:10
  the whole gym community. Yeah. And look, it worked, it worked out. It worked out. Now that
• 32:14
  business, that company today is evolved, you know, you know, seven eight eight times over into what
• 32:22
  that was. But at that point in time, that, that business, that model worked. It was no contract
• 32:29
  open 24 hours, you belong to one, you belong to them all. So there was no reason for the consumer
• 32:34
  to say no, which is important. I always talk about in business, you've got to be able to separate
• 32:40
  yourself from all of the competition. You got to be able to stand on that hill, put your stake in
• 32:44
  the sand and say, yes, I may be selling exercise, but I'm different. And here's why you got to be
• 32:50
  able to point that out because the consumer, there's no shortage of gyms. You've got to convince
• 32:55
  the consumer that the, the product that you're bringing forth is a better opportunity than what
• 33:01
  they're currently doing. And for me, no contract. Look, when I did it, when I started no contract,
• 33:08
  everybody else was trying to shackle you to a 12 or 18 month contract. I was no contract. And
• 33:13
  that's why when people would come into my gym, I would tell them, look, you've got everything
• 33:18
  you need here to get fit. It's seven days a week, 24 hours a day, you belong to one, you belong
• 33:23
  to them all, but only if you only use this one. It's still understand. Let's say that you try this.
• 33:28
  You do it for 30 days. If I didn't deliver on my promise, what's the worst thing can happen?
• 33:32
  They look at me like it's a trick question. And I just tell them, you just quit.
• 33:37
  Just quit. I mean, if I can't earn your business, earn your trust and maintain, if I can't continue
• 33:41
  to deliver value, I don't deserve your, your, your loyalty. And that just resonated with the consumer.
• 33:48
  And I think today, that mindset still resonates. People like that old fashioned,
• 33:54
  I'm going to earn your business. I'm going to earn your trust. You know, here, here we are in
• 33:58
  Miami. Okay. Look, you can go into just about any place, order something, take out and they put
• 34:05
  a 18% maturity on it, which drives me crazy. It does mean to you. You know what? And it's not,
• 34:10
  it's not about the money. It's about the principle of it. I always say, if I'm standing,
• 34:15
  I shouldn't have the tip, meaning if I'm going in and I order something and you automatically
• 34:19
  throw a gratuity on it, that to me is bullshit. Okay. They didn't, they didn't do any service.
• 34:25
  Nothing. Yeah. I came in. I pick. So I've always had an issue with, with that. But you know,
• 34:32
  but you're right. So the, the, the idea is, I think too many businesses get comfortable
• 34:40
  because either there's no competition or they find a way to lock you into a contract or they
• 34:45
  find a way basically to opt out of giving you good service. But the second somebody does,
• 34:52
  you're good. That, that competitor is going to eat, eat that other businesses lunch every single
• 34:56
  day. And that's what you did. And that's, I think it's an important idea because now there's more,
• 35:01
  there's more options than ever before. So if anybody doesn't like what you're doing, you can just
• 35:06
  go somewhere up and there's actually some restaurants that I don't go to anymore because of that
• 35:09
  specific reason. Just like there's some, there's some gyms that I don't go to. There's some
• 35:15
  pick a service that you use. I mean, there's some phone providers that I don't like the way
• 35:20
  they structure their contracts. I'll never use them like some. So yeah, there's more options than ever,
• 35:26
  which is a good thing. That's capitalism. That's, that's a very good thing. So you have to,
• 35:30
  if you're going to build a business act accordingly, you have to fight for your customer every day.
• 35:34
  And it's not, I, I don't know why people are upset with that idea. I think it just makes you
• 35:40
  a stronger business, a stronger entrepreneur. Absolutely. And you know what, when you're getting into
• 35:44
  business and, and I work with many companies today and they're looking to pivot and I tell them,
• 35:49
  look, by doing what we're going to do, understand the market is going to follow you. Okay, the consumer
• 35:56
  is going to like the value that you bring forward. I promise you, they're going to like what we're
• 35:59
  doing. And the competition's going to follow. So you better be prepared for that. You're going to
• 36:04
  win the short battle, but you will not win the long battle unless you outhouse them in customer
• 36:10
  service and guest experience. Okay, because people, people evolve. I mean, they're looking at each
• 36:16
  other, they're looking at the lay of the land. If the competition doesn't pivot to what the,
• 36:21
  what is now relevant in the eyes of the consumer, they're dead anyway. They're not your competition.
• 36:26
  You know what I mean, they're going to be, they're, they're dead. They don't even know it yet.
• 36:30
  Okay, it's just they're just going to die a slow spiral death because the cons, from just attrition.
• 36:37
  So I think when you're going in the battle of being an entrepreneur, make sure that you're always
• 36:43
  relevant. Always pay attention to what's going on with your competition, not even just local
• 36:49
  competition, but on a national level. See who's doing what? Okay, get out there. See who's winning
• 36:55
  and how they're winning. And then if you have to evolve accordingly, do it. Be out in front of it.
• 37:02
  Okay, I remember when I had my gym, my one gym out in little Wilmer, Minnesota of all places.
• 37:09
  I had one gym, but when you're, when you're breaking a couple hundred thousand a year profit,
• 37:15
  I had extra cash. So I would, I would pay instructors from Minneapolis to come out once and
• 37:22
  want on a Saturday morning. And we would have a guest instructor. Okay, I had this huge aerobic
• 37:27
  studio. And the people just liked it because it brought the city out to this little town.
• 37:33
  It gave them another, another look at what other people are doing in the big city.
• 37:39
  Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And they just love that I did that. And it's something above and beyond.
• 37:44
  And it's something no one else is doing. I had a question and, and it going back to something
• 37:49
  that you said a little while ago. So entrepreneurship, people usually associate risk with entrepreneurship.
• 37:58
  And there is, there is a little bit of risk involved. Obviously, you have to have a little bit of
• 38:02
  risk. But the way that you sort of walk through how you thought about business ideas and opening up
• 38:11
  new locations, a UD risked quite a bit. And you even said like you're actually super risked
• 38:17
  adverse when it comes entrepreneurship. So again, it's almost like two conflicting ideas.
• 38:22
  Entrepreneurs aren't hardly risk you. You found a way to do it without with as little risk as
• 38:26
  possible. So what would be sort of your view on risk and entrepreneurship? How much should somebody
• 38:32
  take? Maybe they shouldn't take that much. I don't know where the balance is. It's where you are
• 38:39
  in your journey. Now, I'll tell you straight away, when I had my very first club, when I was not
• 38:46
  even doing snap fitness yet, I was just my first gym. It was huge your opportunity to turn around
• 38:50
  the spelling gym. Well, when I when I was successful there and I was going to build my second location,
• 38:57
  I had to make sure, look, calculated risk. Yeah, there was risk associated with it. But I had no plan
• 39:03
  V. Remember, it wasn't, I didn't have this war chest of cash. So you had to be very calculated
• 39:10
  on how you did it because the last thing you want to do is get into a lease on a second location.
• 39:15
  It's not performing. And now all the cash flow you've generated from store number one is getting
• 39:21
  eaten up by store number two. So for me, I made sure that when I got into that lease, if it didn't
• 39:28
  work out, I had an exit strategy from the landlord. I would, so I could limit my risk if I had to. So
• 39:34
  I was very calculated on how I went about that. Now, as I started generating more and more cash flow
• 39:41
  and, and keep in mind, even when I was experiencing this cash flow, I was not upgrading my,
• 39:47
  I upgraded my car, but I didn't upgrade my lifestyle a lot. You see a lot of entrepreneurs do that?
• 39:53
  Yeah, they just, they get crazy. They, but to me, I was putting everything back into the business
• 39:58
  because I knew that I would have my day when I could exit and, and then live a life that I'd
• 40:03
  always wanted to. I wasn't on food stamps. Don't get me wrong. But I was very, I was the cash was
• 40:10
  sacred. Okay. So that's a very different scenario. That was what I had to work with. And when I work
• 40:16
  with companies today who are in that place, they like to swing for the fences. And I'm always
• 40:23
  pulling them back, reeling them in and say, look, don't take that risk because that risk
• 40:28
  is going to sink the ship if it doesn't work. So I know you feel in your heart that that's 100%
• 40:34
  no risk, but I'm telling you straight away, there is. Look at COVID. There was nobody saw COVID
• 40:40
  coming. And people just got absolutely blindsided, obliterated on it from being over levered
• 40:47
  in a very downtime. Okay. So all those things is worry right in your journey so that, you know,
• 40:53
  the, the long answer to your short question is calculated risk depends on how much cash you have
• 40:58
  in reserve and never bet the farm. Just it's, it's fiscally irresponsible to bet the farm
• 41:05
  because you don't want to go back to where you started. Okay. That's a hell of a road. You know what
• 41:13
  I mean, don't, don't, and it breaks my heart when I see entrepreneurs, they work their tail off.
• 41:20
  They have an exit. Now they have 10 million in the bank. They, they think they have FU money
• 41:26
  that they can just buy whatever they want. And they're going to want for nothing. And they wake up
• 41:31
  one day and a few bad investments here, a few bad stocks there. People came out of the woodwork.
• 41:36
  Can you give me a loan? You know how it works? Pretty soon, their 10 million is six. Okay. And I've
• 41:42
  worked with people in that scenario before had a guy that very exact scenario. And when, when I was
• 41:50
  called to come in and help him, I started peeling back some of his depreciating assets. He had a
• 41:56
  large boat. I said, let's, let's get rid of the boat. Peter, why do I got to sell the boat? It's
• 42:02
  bought and paid for it. Look, you're yacht. It's costing you about 12 grand a month. Okay. So what I'm
• 42:09
  trying to do is stop your cash flow burn right now every month, you're going into a deficit. So
• 42:17
  if we, if we don't do these things right now, you're going to be, I'm going to be looking at
• 42:22
  you two years from now and your six is now going to be four and a half. And now you're going back to
• 42:26
  work. Okay. So, you know, it got real for him in a hurry. Now the good news is he listened. We got
• 42:34
  rid of some of those depreciating assets for him. And he hunkered down. We got into some things
• 42:40
  where he's no longer swinging for the fences. He's got good steady returns on his investments. He's
• 42:45
  not spending. He's never, he's not dipping into his principle anymore. He's spending his passive
• 42:51
  income. And he's still taking a portion of his passive income and putting it to work for him.
• 42:56
  Okay. So when you have a down year, you're still growing. Okay. It's smart. So it's, it, it
• 43:03
  absolutely. It had nobody teaches you this stuff, by the way. No, because you're good at building a
• 43:07
  business. Doesn't mean you're a good investor. Doesn't mean you're, doesn't mean you're good
• 43:10
  anything else. It's literally what you just did. Exactly. And now, now for him three years later,
• 43:16
  he's got back. He's probably had about 7.2 million. So he's, he's fighting back the other way.
• 43:21
  And it's not that, it's not that bad. And you know, and I told him, look, it's not that you can
• 43:26
  never have a boat again. But why the hell if you can get a boat and, and, and, and borrow the money
• 43:32
  at four or five percent at the time that he was getting money was cheap, get a four four or five
• 43:37
  percent loan on your boat and then keep that 1.5 million working for you. You know what I mean?
• 43:44
  But you know, live and learn. He learned a great lesson there. Good, good that he learned it to
• 43:49
  like sooner than later. And even the people that I know that have had exits that are much larger than
• 43:56
  than 10 million. No, assuming that was aftertax, but people that have exits in, you know, north of
• 44:03
  50 and they buy a boat. They, they're still, they're, they're still finding people to rent it out
• 44:08
  from them on the weekends or during the week when they're not using it to find a way to get it's
• 44:12
  paid for itself. I know people that bought a boat and now they at the, they charge tickets so people
• 44:18
  can host events on the boat. Like the point is, you don't just want to hold all these depreciating
• 44:22
  assets. And I don't, and when you sell a company, you don't think through all these ideas. Yeah,
• 44:26
  you're just like, wow, this is great. I've never had this much money. Nobody in my family has
• 44:29
  ever had this much money before. Let's see how fast we can spend it. And it happens. You know,
• 44:33
  when I have a boat and it was, it's about a three and a half million dollar boat that
• 44:40
  in, I've just told my fiance, look, I'm going to sell the boat. We don't use it. We use it like
• 44:45
  literally two or three times a month, eight months of the year. And it's about 20 grand a month.
• 44:50
  Okay. Now look, it doesn't matter how much money you have. And to me, that's a struggle that I
• 44:55
  work that I have. What sometimes when I look at myself in the mirror, I say to myself, so that's
• 45:02
  who you've become. You're that guy now where you just throw money around like a drunken sailor.
• 45:08
  Like, you don't mean there's so many other more responsible things I can do. I don't need a boat.
• 45:15
  I thought I want it, you know, I convinced myself that I wanted a boat. And it's probably from when
• 45:19
  I was a kid, in visualizing, you know, what this lifestyle might look like. But look, buying things
• 45:25
  that you don't use, just depreciating assets, just to fill your own cup. You've got it, you've
• 45:31
  got to get away from that. You know, there's so much more, so many better ways to have a
• 45:36
  boating experience without owning the boat. I just want to take a quick break and thank the
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  for 60% off. I want to I want to speak about how you structured your exit because we're talking
• 48:35
  about the stuff you do after your exit. But I think even some of the people that you work with right
• 48:38
  now. So how you work with people right now, I mean you're retired. You have a couple other
• 48:42
  business that you run. We can talk about them. But I mean a lot of the work that you do is mentorship,
• 48:46
  advising entrepreneurs, you help them out. And the people that you work with, they are,
• 48:53
  you said before we press record a million, two million dollars in an EBITDA and that's sort of
• 48:59
  the sweet spot because a lot of opportunity. They figured out product market fit. Great. They're
• 49:03
  scaling their business. Great. But one thing that I think people, again, some people think about
• 49:09
  this. Not enough people think about this is, okay, say everything does work. How do I structure my
• 49:17
  exit? How do I make sure that I actually get paid? And a couple of ideas that I've seen that we
• 49:21
  can talk about. So you took money off the table before you sold, which I think is impressive.
• 49:27
  Not everybody does that. How do you negotiate that? Some people raise money and they dilute
• 49:34
  their company too much as well. And by the time they exit, they actually are not getting that much
• 49:38
  money. And also, who do you sell to? Do you want to sell to private equity? Do you want to sell to
• 49:45
  a strategic buyer? Do you want to take the company public? Like what do you want to do with it?
• 49:50
  Or do you want it to be a lifestyle? So a lot of ideas around exit that I think you probably
• 49:54
  have opinions on. So let's start with what should entrepreneurs think about? When should entrepreneurs
• 50:04
  think about exiting a business? Is it right away? Is it five years? Like what's the, what's the thing
• 50:09
  you teach? Well, firstly, look, every and every company is a little bit different. But if let's say
• 50:16
  that they're doing a million of EBITDA, which means, you know, when I say that that's my sweet spot,
• 50:20
  the reason I like that, just for your listening audiences, they've, they've invested to have some
• 50:25
  redundancy in their leadership. Number one, number two, they've invested in some, in some IP,
• 50:32
  some technology. So the back wonder the company, the foundation of what, of the analytical data that
• 50:38
  they're collecting. So they've made some investments in those areas. The first five years or first few
• 50:43
  years of a business where all the road rushes. And for me to get involved with the company early on
• 50:48
  in that, it's so much heavy lifting that, that for me, if I'm going to do that, I may as well run
• 50:54
  the company. And that's, I don't want to get back into that. But if, but a million, now I can,
• 51:01
  you've got some surplus cash flow. We can strategically put things in place for it. The first
• 51:08
  conversations I have with a founder, he's got a million of EBITDA. I say, white canvas, blank canvas,
• 51:14
  what does this look like in five years for you? All right. Is it, are you a five million EBITDA,
• 51:20
  are you 10 million EBITDA? And then I ask him, what, what's your exit strategy? Because that's the
• 51:25
  other part of it. Every part of being an entrepreneur, you have to visualize what it is you're going
• 51:32
  to do. What is the product or service you're bringing to the market? And then how do you grow that
• 51:36
  business? How do you get trajectory? And then how do you exit to your point? Am I going to go to the
• 51:41
  open market with a full-blown process, bidding process or myself to a strategic? We don't need to
• 51:46
  worry about that now, but I need to know that this is not a business that you intend to hand down
• 51:52
  a generational business, okay? Big difference, all right? Because we don't have to worry about
• 51:57
  those other things then. Yeah. Do you, do you have an outside of generational business that you
• 52:02
  hand down to kids and that could be a whole other podcast about succession planning and what?
• 52:06
  But outside of that, what do you have a preference? Is there one that you like better than
• 52:13
  others? Like if you're like, hey, founder with a million dollars EBITDA, this is how I think you
• 52:19
  should grow. This is how I think you should position it for exit. These are the things we should
• 52:23
  start to do now to think through so that we can maybe maximize recurring revenue or maybe maximize
• 52:28
  value weight like other things that you think through. Yeah, absolutely. I look at every part of
• 52:32
  the business and then I share with them stories about, for me, starting Snap Fitness,
• 52:38
  creating an administrative infrastructure, which is legal, accounting, marketing, sales force,
• 52:46
  that's the hub of lift brands, okay? In this hub is all the human capital, IP technology that
• 52:57
  is there. And when I saw that I had that, I said, look, I can leverage this across multiple brands.
• 53:03
  It doesn't matter, which is why you have Snap Fitness, which is why you have Nine Round,
• 53:07
  you have Fit Stop, you have Fitness on Demand, you have Yoga Fit, you have all these brands.
• 53:12
  That's the core. That's what you got to build. They all, well, and here's why it's beautiful.
• 53:17
  If I'm looking at your company and I see that you have all those components and you're doing
• 53:23
  5 million of EBITDA, I'm going to pay you on a multiple of your EBITDA, but the day that I'd buy it,
• 53:30
  my EBITDA could be seven because there's so much redundancies that I'm going to eliminate.
• 53:36
  So, you know, and they say, oh, man, Peter, he paid me a five-time multiple, but the market says four,
• 53:42
  but he's overpaying. They don't know that. No, not really, my friend. The day that I buy it,
• 53:48
  I'm my five multiple. I'm actually, you're doing five million of EBITDA. Next year,
• 53:53
  I'm going to do seven, and that's if I don't even grow your business.
• 53:57
  You got it. I've got redundancies, and so it works out, and you can easily do that.
• 54:04
  So, to your point on how do you exit, you got to look at who are the strategic players in your space?
• 54:12
  And I love it when you have a strategic player, and then the other side of it is, is it strategic,
• 54:17
  is it private equity? And then secondly, what do you want to do? Do you want to sell all of it?
• 54:24
  Do you want to sell a portion of it? Because you're buying audience out there is going to deviate
• 54:31
  based on how much of your company you want to sell, like for me. The first time I sold a portion
• 54:36
  of Snap Fitness, as I told you, 40% for 47 million. That was great for me.
• 54:43
  The 47 million went right into my personal checkbook. The business was spinning off cash.
• 54:49
  The company that came on board was private equity. I was doing five million of EBITDA,
• 54:55
  and they valued the company to add $100 million. You have to explain that. Because that's a wild
• 55:02
  value. Why value? But, and I'll tell you why, because they looked at it and they said, he has
• 55:07
  600 licenses sold. He's got 325 stores open. So his funnel of store opening, it's just a matter of
• 55:16
  time before his EBITDA grows because he's already sold the licenses. He just hasn't realized the cash
• 55:21
  from these yet because they haven't opened yet. Okay, they call that embedded EBITDA. Okay,
• 55:26
  they made the right bet. So they had, they sold them 40% of the company. I got 47 million
• 55:34
  doing five minute EBITDA. The very next year, I did 7.5. In five years, I grew that company
• 55:39
  from 5 million of EBITDA to 20, actually 22. Okay, so we did the second exit. Now the second exit
• 55:46
  the company valued at 200 million. Okay, now I sold about 20% of that for about the same amount
• 55:55
  as I did the first time. Okay, so now think about, now here's an important component for your
• 56:00
  listeners. In hindsight, I wish I had sold more. Okay, I wish I had sold another 40% and kept 20
• 56:09
  because the minute that you hand the keys over to the private equity, because you're no longer
• 56:14
  a majority shareholder. Yeah, that was a tipping point. Yeah. And, and regardless of what they say,
• 56:21
  it doesn't matter. It doesn't mean shit. Okay, at the end of the day, they're the king.
• 56:28
  They can control what what goes on within the company, control the direction, they control everything.
• 56:33
  So for me, in hindsight, I wish I had sold 40% rather than selling another 20% because I was
• 56:40
  thinking, I'm going to sell 20% for about the same amount as the first branch. And then I'm going
• 56:45
  to grow this thing and I'm going to sell my last 40%. You know, for a, I'm going to grow the
• 56:49
  company from 200 million to 300 or 400 million and then sell it. You know, you start selling 40%
• 56:56
  of a company or is that that or 400 million? That's a, that's 160 million. It's real money.
• 57:00
  It's so what happened? The, so what happened? That's a little 20%. The, the dynamics change,
• 57:06
  that company a year into it, they, they recapped the company. All right. So they went out, put,
• 57:13
  and put additional debt against the company. And I said, look, I wouldn't do it because the cost
• 57:22
  of money was about eight and a half percent. It was a lot. They put, they put 50 million of
• 57:27
  additional debt against the company. And I said, if anything goes on here, the company is going to
• 57:34
  damn near be insolvent because your interest alone on this is over a million dollars a month.
• 57:40
  Okay. So you're going to stress the company out. Well, then what happens? COVID. Okay. COVID came
• 57:46
  along. COVID came along. And for us, our good fortune, the bank approached us because they had a
• 57:54
  portfolio full of businesses that were getting completely blindsided. No one saw COVID. I mean,
• 58:02
  so the bank came to us and said, how bad is it? And they work with us because they don't want to
• 58:07
  lose everything either. They don't want to lose it. And the last thing they want is the keys to
• 58:11
  a large large house. Yeah, they're going to run it. No, they don't want that. So fortunately,
• 58:16
  they work with us. And, and you know, the management team that's in there now running the business,
• 58:22
  they do a great job. They're fighting their way back. And, and, you know, they'll get back. They're
• 58:27
  still not back to the number when I left the company, but which are seven years ago. But
• 58:32
  do you still own that 40%? No, now I own 22%. So you did just sell off. Does that a lower valuation?
• 58:39
  Yeah, what happened is during the COVID during the COVID piece, they part of the deal was they
• 58:44
  wanted us to put 15 million of cash back on the balance sheet. Okay. So for me, you know,
• 58:51
  44% of that is a little over six points, something million. Yeah. So keep in mind, for me to give you
• 58:57
  six million, I have to make 12. Yeah. Okay. So I looked at it. And at the time, the direction of
• 59:03
  the company and everything, I said, look, I don't know that I want to double down. I'm just going to play,
• 59:08
  I'm going to pay the owner anymore. You got it. You're trusting someone else to do the right thing.
• 59:13
  And candidly also, you were not 100% okay with the decision that they made to take on that debt
• 59:18
  in the first place. No question. So you have like some had donations and reservations around what
• 59:23
  they're going to do. I did. And you know what? I gave them 3.2. I own 22% of the company and look,
• 59:30
  we'll have an exit here the next year or two and you know, all is good. But you know, it's not
• 59:35
  the way that I drew it up originally. You got to be careful. I think that people also, you know,
• 59:42
  hindsight's always 2020. And people forget that just because somebody has a lot of capital and
• 59:50
  it sounds like they know what they're doing and sometimes they do. Private equity doesn't always
• 59:54
  know what to do better than the founder. More often than not, they actually don't. I've seen
• 1:00:00
  several companies not do so well post exit in my own life. And you know what? It's to their credit.
• 1:00:07
  Look, some of the smartest people I know are in private equity here. Okay. And the group and
• 1:00:12
  my business partners and this, they're smart guys and they've managed to fight their way out of it.
• 1:00:17
  So I, you know, I applaud them for that. But historically, they tend to want to recap and get
• 1:00:26
  their cash off the table. So they, OPM, other people's money. Okay. So when they come in, they grow
• 1:00:32
  the business a little bit and then they want to recap the company and put more debt against the
• 1:00:36
  company, which is betting the farm, but it's a banks money. So it's not. And you know what? When
• 1:00:41
  they recap, so think about it, they put, they put 50 million of debt against the company.
• 1:00:47
  At that time, I own 44% of the company. So I'm getting 44% of 50 million. So here's another
• 1:00:52
  tranche of cash that you get. Okay. But it could very well be. Like during COVID, my equity could
• 1:01:00
  have went to zero. You know what I mean? It could have had the bank not stepped up and said,
• 1:01:05
  look, we want to help you fight your way out of this. You know, and they didn't do it for free.
• 1:01:10
  But thank God that they were in that mindset. And they had to, because as I said,
• 1:01:15
  private equity companies, their portfolios, it was a bloodbath out there. It was really tough.
• 1:01:21
  The first sale, how did you convince them that you wanted to keep majority of the company?
• 1:01:28
  Or was that something that they suggested? No, I was, look, when it's your company,
• 1:01:32
  you call the shots, it's your party. So I said it. Like where you, so I'll tell you,
• 1:01:37
  so said differently. Obviously, you had a couple different options for investors as well,
• 1:01:42
  because some people, especially the first company that they've ever built, they get bullied
• 1:01:47
  by the investor. Yeah. Well, I had no partners. It was me. I owned 100% of it. So it was,
• 1:01:53
  it was me. And I knew what I had. Okay. I knew what I had. And I knew I didn't know at the time
• 1:02:01
  that my company was a hundred million dollar company. I didn't know. I let private equity tell me
• 1:02:06
  okay, when they went through their evaluations, you just show them the numbers. When you're going to
• 1:02:12
  run a full process, you put your numbers out there and they will come back to you and say,
• 1:02:19
  you know, here's, here's what we think it's worth. Okay. So hundred million dollar evaluation.
• 1:02:23
  And, and you know what, they bet right. It was a good bet that they made. But that's,
• 1:02:30
  you know, and then, but I always knew that I was going to, that I was going to grow it. And,
• 1:02:33
  and my phone was ringing weekly. And what prompted me to want to sell a portion is I wanted to say,
• 1:02:40
  look, the first sale that I make, regardless of what history brings after this,
• 1:02:47
  it's game over for me. Okay. When you've got 47 million in your checkbook,
• 1:02:54
  your, it's game over. You're done. You're done. You're done. You're done. And, you know,
• 1:03:00
  unless you're spending money like a drunken sailor, but what not? But even, you know, 47 million,
• 1:03:05
  you're, you know, by the time taxes, Uncle Sam gets his pound of flesh, so call it, call it 30 million
• 1:03:10
  of cash working for you. I mean, look, you can, you can spend two, three million a year and never
• 1:03:17
  touch your money. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, high class problems. This podcast is
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  may lose value offer a subject to tease and seize. I want to talk about I want to talk about
• 1:04:31
  passion versus industry and what matters more and the reason why I asked is because you've built
• 1:04:39
  many different businesses you've built obviously gyms you have if I'm not mistaken you have a
• 1:04:45
  lodge in Tanzania you built lift brands for a period you were building it was s i e bowls as
• 1:04:56
  well there was a that was a company so you have all these different companies I'm assuming they've
• 1:05:00
  all achieved some level of success which is why you're probably talking about them because if they
• 1:05:04
  are if they weren't working I'm sure they wouldn't be on the on the books anymore but
• 1:05:09
  what do you think is more important is it passion for an industry or is there something else
• 1:05:15
  that allows you to achieve success across so many different fields I think what I'm doing now the
• 1:05:21
  consulting that I'm doing and what what so what what fires you up every day I am a firm believer in
• 1:05:29
  I think number one I think retirement's overrated I agree with that completely yeah so find
• 1:05:33
  something that you have balance but something that can get you out of bed in the morning that's
• 1:05:38
  going to fire you up whatever it is and it's not golf and fishing and working out okay something
• 1:05:44
  that is going to test your brain test your noodle force you to interact with people
• 1:05:50
  force you to be calculated in in in your business to keep you in the game okay I think I just
• 1:05:57
  think you've got to be in the game at whatever that game looks like through your lens of what what
• 1:06:02
  what really lights your fire so that's what I do I only get involved in things that I that I really
• 1:06:08
  love or that I can get passionate about so you know the lodge in Africa it's a good friend of mine
• 1:06:15
  and I own it 50 50 we've owned it for about 14 years and it wasn't easy you know it was a lot of
• 1:06:23
  grinding but now we're at a place where it's it's thriving and it's a five star lodge it's
• 1:06:28
  absolutely beautiful you were passionate about it I am and we have about literally 45,000 acres
• 1:06:35
  of of in this valley that is just pristine I mean when the migration comes through we have so many
• 1:06:42
  local animals that stayed there even through the migration imagine it's like this oasis in this
• 1:06:48
  valley running water beautiful terrain beautiful habitat for them were the will to be walking through
• 1:06:57
  their name some of them just go you know what I'm just going to crash I'm just going to stay here
• 1:07:01
  because I've got food I got green prairies I've got everything I need here I've got water source
• 1:07:06
  I'm just going to stay here so we got these local native wildlife there that is just spectacular
• 1:07:12
  so I love that and the reason I ask this is because there are some big names in business that they
• 1:07:19
  don't care about passion they just find the most commercially viable opportunity and they do it
• 1:07:25
  again and again and again and again and again and it could be is something is boring I mean I'll
• 1:07:30
  use people get I won't name names but people get passionate about money and success but you have
• 1:07:37
  a different point of view so why do you think that it's important to follow something that you're
• 1:07:41
  passionate about versus just finding the best possible business opportunity I think having
• 1:07:48
  balance is one thing getting in and doing the same thing again and again and again look if even
• 1:07:53
  if you're not passionate if your passion is making money then then great but I tell you what
• 1:07:57
  you'll never see a curse behind a coffin all right so make sure that you're checking the boxes some
• 1:08:03
  of the sacrifices that we all made as entrepreneurs early on where they'd be spending more time with
• 1:08:09
  the kids when they were growing up all of those things and those are some of the things honestly for
• 1:08:13
  me that I struggle with I you know I could have been a better father I could have been more present
• 1:08:20
  and when I talk to my kids today they go dad you were you know you're great I understand that
• 1:08:29
  the fruits of my effort are going to create a lifestyle for them long after I'm gone so that's
• 1:08:35
  the fruits of my effort and I'm happy that I'm able to do that but if I had it to do over again
• 1:08:42
  I probably would have dialed it back a little bit and been more present a little bit more like
• 1:08:47
  balance I was so yeah but I ran these companies with a level of paranoia and some of your listening
• 1:08:54
  audience won't understand that but when you when you grow up with nothing you're always looking
• 1:09:00
  around waiting for the other shoot-of-fall right you're you're just when how can this be going so
• 1:09:06
  good when when do I get blindsided yeah what was going to pump me like oh right it's no exactly
• 1:09:12
  because I said how does this how does this journey end how does so you have this level of paranoia
• 1:09:18
  and I've always used that paranoia in a way to to motivate me to out out hustle everyone to know what
• 1:09:25
  I mean just grit out hustle because I had no plan B and that mindset has served me well through
• 1:09:33
  my 40 some odd years of business you don't operate from the same place of of stress and anxiety
• 1:09:39
  now that when you start something new I don't but you know what I when I get involved with some
• 1:09:44
  companies I you know I can do absorb what that what that CEO is going through because I've been
• 1:09:52
  there you know and I and I try to eliminate the potholes for them because maybe I've got
• 1:09:57
  historical experience and how that story ends how that narrative ends so part of what I do is try
• 1:10:03
  to help people get on a straighter line to success eliminating some of the road rash that many
• 1:10:09
  of us entrepreneurs have gone through yeah I mean I think that there's something to be said for
• 1:10:14
  having that stress and that anxiety fuel you because I mean people can be fueled by different things
• 1:10:18
  but sometimes like the subconsciously you're just not going to put your all into it you know what
• 1:10:24
  you're exactly right and and I can tell you this there's many companies that I've worked with
• 1:10:29
  there's some companies I've worked with and they're and they're they're just great they just minor
• 1:10:34
  tweaks but there's other companies that I've worked with that have become complacent they made a hell
• 1:10:41
  of a lot of money owners made a hell of a lot of money but the business is complacent the owner's
• 1:10:48
  complacent he's no longer he's not driving the business anymore he's kind of riding the business
• 1:10:53
  and there's a big difference and he wakes up one day and he says hey wait a minute
• 1:10:58
  sales are declining more employee turnover why because his passions not there and passions contagious
• 1:11:07
  right and and just tell him look you know these things what we need to do with this business
• 1:11:13
  if you're not going to be in the trenches any more like you were that's okay but we need to have
• 1:11:18
  a transition we need to transition you out of the business let's get fresh blood in here who's
• 1:11:23
  going to grind and he's going to inspire those that your team because when they see sales sliding
• 1:11:33
  everybody's aware of it okay and you don't want to you don't want people walking around here with
• 1:11:37
  this level of paranoia when are when are the cuts coming you know that you don't need to do that
• 1:11:43
  because you've got a viable business here you're just you're no longer relevant you haven't changed
• 1:11:47
  and if you don't turn this ship around you're going to we're going to do one or two things you're
• 1:11:53
  going to make a strategic pivot and sometimes those pivots are so costly you're better off shutting
• 1:11:58
  this business down and reopening it because the effort is going to take you to pivot and that whole
• 1:12:03
  mindset and you also maybe you don't have that mindset anymore you got it you have your house your
• 1:12:08
  kids are done college are off in their own life you don't worry about money anymore your investments
• 1:12:14
  before the the lifestyle you want and then it's a conversation of well fine you don't have to do
• 1:12:20
  that to yourself but then my question would be okay you bring in fresh blood but how do you ever
• 1:12:25
  how do you ever get fresh blood younger talent to be as motivated as the founder of the business
• 1:12:31
  I it to me I've always found it comes with two things it comes with equity yeah giving them equity
• 1:12:38
  and give them equity equity means opportunity if you analyze what you got at the at the health club
• 1:12:43
  yourself club you got it so get give them equity but put my put milestones tied to that equity
• 1:12:51
  because believe me if you're if you're you know you can hire sheep or lions all right you hire a
• 1:12:56
  lion he wants to know where's the bar set how do I get more how do I get my equity in the company
• 1:13:03
  how do I do that you work with the team and then set the whole team up set not only this person
• 1:13:10
  who's going to be your successor but inspire the whole leadership team put caveats in there put
• 1:13:17
  benchmarks put put these you know flags in the ground on milestones you get to hear here here's
• 1:13:23
  what you get all right and then the other tough decision with this owner is look if you're not going
• 1:13:30
  if you're not going to do this if you if you're not going to be involved in the business that's okay
• 1:13:35
  then stay in arms like because we are where we are today because of you don't take that the wrong
• 1:13:42
  way okay you're not a bad person but you're not leaning in anymore so we are here today so here's
• 1:13:49
  where it's going to be a problem seen it happened far too many times they start getting momentum
• 1:13:55
  the culture changes a bit they're young and they're fiery and they're growing the business
• 1:14:00
  well what happens then the guy that's been sitting at home who you just removed he's sitting
• 1:14:05
  like an armchair quarterback and pretty soon he starts blowing in the ear because he still owns the
• 1:14:10
  company right it's still his call and he gets in there and he and he and he fucks up the mojo of
• 1:14:15
  what you've just turned around which you gotta be careful not to manage and then the that young
• 1:14:22
  blood loses all their enthusiasm yeah because they feel like they're they're they're getting
• 1:14:27
  undermined they just when just when they started to see this thing taking off like the good old days
• 1:14:32
  now you're coming in you're throwing a wrench at your you're you're you're starting to apply
• 1:14:36
  your old mentality of you know it's just it's like COVID okay I just had this this discussion this
• 1:14:44
  is like a year ago now but with COVID COVID forced everyone to work from home okay and the new work
• 1:14:50
  environment is from home I mean most corporations today their their staff is working part part in
• 1:14:58
  the office and part at home okay I mean at lift brands we probably have 30% of our staff that comes
• 1:15:04
  into the office every day 30% and if we woke up tomorrow morning and said look we're gonna everybody's
• 1:15:11
  gotta come back because we're not seeing the mentoring we're not seeing the culture of the company
• 1:15:16
  because where there's no more interaction if we did that we'd lose half our staff because the
• 1:15:21
  mindset of the generation that's working today they understand I'm gonna work from home I personally
• 1:15:28
  I don't think a four-day work week is far away okay they're just doing that now um which which
• 1:15:34
  many countries are doing it yeah right I don't think you're gonna see I think a four-day work week
• 1:15:39
  is is not far away at all but do you think that's because people don't do you think the people value
• 1:15:45
  other things outside of career now I think that that's probably a major part of the whole generation
• 1:15:50
  yeah it's the workforce there yet it's it's it's the whole workforce they want you know balance
• 1:15:56
  lifestyle lifestyle and money I mean it's today it's a damn just thing you'll have somebody that'll
• 1:16:01
  quit their job and you say well I'm sorry to hear that you're leaving what are you what are you
• 1:16:05
  gonna do well I don't know I haven't figured it out yet when I was a kid you would never leave your
• 1:16:10
  job without something else coming there you you know I you'd never do it people that have left
• 1:16:15
  the companies that that I've worked for and that I've built um it's actually the opposite they'll
• 1:16:21
  be interviewing on their lunch breaks no right so that and they they'll start a job before they even
• 1:16:27
  quit and they'll be they'll be so careful that they never go a week without a paycheck now it's
• 1:16:33
  just because I also think that there's a lot of factors that affect this I think the people don't
• 1:16:39
  look at home ownership the same way anymore because now it's out of out of reach for most people
• 1:16:44
  so if I'm not saving up to buy a home then maybe I'm just worrying about rent and then I don't
• 1:16:50
  need to worry about money as much because I'm not making I'm never gonna be able to afford this
• 1:16:55
  anyway so let me just optimize the lifestyle that I have now and there's a lot wrapped into that yes
• 1:17:00
  but I see it too and then they value other things and they want to travel and they want
• 1:17:04
  to work abroad and COVID kind of enabled it as well yeah there's a lot there's a lot out there
• 1:17:11
  right now and some people call it the conspiracy theories out there but you know is it blackstone
• 1:17:16
  that's buying up like all the all the real stones yeah so you got blackstone coming in buying up
• 1:17:21
  all the real estate you've got uh bills going through congress about talking about putting
• 1:17:28
  kill switches and cars and you know you see all of this stuff and all of it it's it's it's really
• 1:17:34
  interesting and you know people people today are saying oh you're just such a conspiracy theorist but
• 1:17:40
  if you look at what people were saying four or five years ago today they were they were all right
• 1:17:46
  yeah do you know what I mean so I don't like the idea of government getting involved I don't
• 1:17:50
  like the idea of government being able to control my car control my bank account lock everything
• 1:17:54
  I mean there's just more and more and more of that I know I know so I think that also people
• 1:18:00
  feel a little bit helpless no question yeah no question and if you if you don't have the financial
• 1:18:05
  means to get outside of that ring of control that's there I would not want to be working for the man
• 1:18:12
  and and have government be able to control everything my bank accounts my car but they but they
• 1:18:20
  already can't I mean we were talking before we press a court about what happened in Canada
• 1:18:23
  with the truckers they were protesting during COVID and then Trudeau froze a whole bunch of
• 1:18:28
  other bank accounts yeah I can't imagine which is wild like that to me seems like a complete abuse
• 1:18:33
  of power you're allowed to protest you're you're very much allowed to protest and then I guess his
• 1:18:40
  thought was well I can't arrest you for standing at sign on a picket line but this is what I can do
• 1:18:45
  at to me it's pretty messed up make life difficult well it's it makes life difficult considering
• 1:18:50
  the fact that truckers plus a whole bunch of other people do not have multiple bank accounts with
• 1:18:55
  all this money saved for all these emergency rainy day situations most people can most people
• 1:19:00
  are paycheck to paycheck right and they don't have multiple bank accounts right yeah many people do
• 1:19:04
  know yeah who work with W2 or 9 to 5 who have four bank accounts all all full of money you're not
• 1:19:10
  no right no it's not it's not how people live right so I don't know it's there's a lot of
• 1:19:15
  conspiracy theory I think a lot of people feel helpless I I feel like outside of just like control
• 1:19:20
  there's also just this financial hurdle that people feel they can't overcome I was looking at
• 1:19:26
  stats in Toronto where I'm from to to buy a detached home I think you have to have I think the
• 1:19:35
  household income meaning like it's either both people have to make close to 200 or you have to
• 1:19:41
  be making as a combined unit like three it's a stupid amount of money to buy a detached home when
• 1:19:47
  you think that my dad bought his first house cash when he was like 24 and he didn't have a PhD was
• 1:19:55
  just he was he was a he was a cop at the time so yeah affordability shifted it stresses everybody
• 1:20:02
  out I think a lot of people are like why am I busting my ass going into an office why am I working
• 1:20:09
  70 80 hours a week for something that I don't even own and you have this whole apathy towards work
• 1:20:15
  and that's what adds to that right yeah it's so true and to be honest I mean I don't run a large
• 1:20:21
  company now and set the podcast it's pretty it's pretty tight group takes care of the show but
• 1:20:28
  it would stress me out hiring a couple hundred or a thousand employees in 2024 but I think
• 1:20:33
  it stresses a lot of people out for sure and sure maybe you have some words of wisdom the people
• 1:20:38
  that are hiring very large teams are hiring at scale because I've I've I'll tell you a funny
• 1:20:44
  story it's not so funny but it's reality I have a friend he hired a videographer W2 so nine to
• 1:20:50
  five salary got the guy to agree to a salary whatever was 70 80 I don't know how much he actually
• 1:20:57
  it was like market rate for videographer full time guy signs a contract first week of work he's
• 1:21:02
  like I'd actually like to renegotiate after he signed the contract first week first week he's
• 1:21:07
  like I actually want to get paid a little bit more and he's like what what are you talking about this
• 1:21:10
  isn't well first of all why didn't you do this before we signed everything and we got all the
• 1:21:15
  forms filled out and we got so that to me is symbolic of how people approach work and it's very
• 1:21:24
  different yeah I've never even in my life thought to renegotiate a salary full time position
• 1:21:30
  the week after I get hired that's right that's yeah insane to me right I'll on negotiate before I
• 1:21:37
  get an offer or while I'm getting the offer not after I signed so people just approach works
• 1:21:43
  and authority differently completely so what do you do about it for an entrepreneur that's
• 1:21:48
  trying to figure out how to get like a plus talent around them and to keep them I'm a I'm a big fan
• 1:21:54
  of look if you can't if you can get away without hiring employees just because of all the employees
• 1:22:01
  I'm a big fan of 1099 independent contracts yes I'm a big fan of it the whole organization well
• 1:22:07
  as much of it like nautical bulls when I started that company when that when I when I got involved
• 1:22:12
  with that company they're they had two stores when I left the company they had 73 stores open
• 1:22:18
  and every one of our employees they weren't even employees every one of them was 1099 every one
• 1:22:24
  of them worked from home and here's the in here's the difference they all work from home so there's
• 1:22:30
  no office rent okay so think about the the lean and mean company okay you had 72 stores open
• 1:22:39
  in three years you've got we sold a hundred and I think I sold a hundred about 170 licenses so 73
• 1:22:47
  open 170 licenses well on its way three years into it no corporate office so just spins off a lot of
• 1:22:56
  cash and when it comes to exit that company whether somebody's gonna buy it or you buy someone it's
• 1:23:04
  imperfect company for someone to acquire because they can just step right into it and pick up
• 1:23:09
  the revenue they're not they're not burdened with office rents and contracts and covenants and
• 1:23:13
  things of that nature so okay so you 1099 all the employees you know and here's what you need to
• 1:23:19
  learn you need to learn that instead of paying people on on hours and chair yeah you're paying
• 1:23:29
  them on performance here's the reality for us we have certain things that we wanted our marketing
• 1:23:35
  people to do as an example here's the things that we need you to do here's the pulse that you need
• 1:23:40
  to make here's how you're managing the social media here's the creative that you make available to
• 1:23:44
  all of our franchisees so you've got all the things that they need to do doesn't matter to me I
• 1:23:50
  don't care if you do it from nine in the morning until five at night or if you do it from midnight
• 1:23:54
  until eight in the morning I don't care so part of the criteria of being an independent contractors
• 1:23:59
  you can't create their schedule you can just create the work description of the work that you want
• 1:24:04
  them to do so you're giving them a contract and there it is and it's month to month so I tell
• 1:24:10
  look it's a month to month contract and it auto renews so if they want to leave I'm not I'm not
• 1:24:17
  there's no fight go there's no holidays now with my people at nautical bowls I paid for their health
• 1:24:25
  insurance it was part of their 1099 okay but I tell them hey look I'm gonna pay for your health
• 1:24:32
  insurance it's not you're not an employee I it's my right as as as as an individual if I want to
• 1:24:41
  pay for your health insurance I can do that just like if I wanted to pay for your health insurance
• 1:24:45
  and nothing there's nothing stopping me from paying for your health more so yeah so we did that
• 1:24:49
  for all of our employees we paid for it and at the end of the year with their 1099 that that
• 1:24:55
  became taxable income for them they weren't actually paying it but they were the benefit of having
• 1:24:59
  health insurance okay I understand so you can do that today you find that when you 1099 an employee
• 1:25:06
  are they as motivated as if they were a w2 is there anything else you got to think about yeah
• 1:25:11
  because for me I helped them most of the people that that we were hiring at nautical bowls as an
• 1:25:16
  example they were young individuals so I tell them look there's things that you can do now that
• 1:25:22
  you're an independent contractor there's things that you can do for instance you could take a portion
• 1:25:27
  like if you're renting an apartment and you have a den and the den is your office you could take
• 1:25:31
  that square footage of your dust you sort of you teach them like all the ways to maximize benefit
• 1:25:36
  percent your laptop computer we can write that off your your your cell phone bill portions of it you
• 1:25:42
  know I make them I make them I get them to a place where they're keeping more of their money
• 1:25:50
  and at the end of the day that's what they want they want to they want to keep more of their check
• 1:25:55
  and honestly one of the best one of the best uh uh well he was the founder of a company that I
• 1:26:01
  worked at um one of the best leaders that I had what he did is he was it was a it was a smaller
• 1:26:07
  company about ten million dollars in revenue and uh and obviously you don't have enough money
• 1:26:12
  and then ten million dollar company and have pensions for people and and stuff like that even
• 1:26:16
  no one does them anymore but he would show people how to invest money and he'd show people about how
• 1:26:21
  to put money into like the you know the S&P 500 and look at historical returns and and all the
• 1:26:26
  different types of funds and index funds and so he was like financial education and and I'm sure
• 1:26:32
  if he had the means he'd try and find a way to do like our uh 401k matching but it was a small
• 1:26:37
  company so it's like you this is what we got I can teach you how to invest your money out of your
• 1:26:41
  paycheck so that you can make you know x percent per year um and that's going to be in his mind it
• 1:26:46
  was more useful than any uh 401k contributions and I don't I don't disagree with him I think that
• 1:26:51
  that's something that more leaders more entrepreneurs more founders should do for their employees because
• 1:26:57
  that education alone kind of like what you're doing with the is the way you can write off this is
• 1:27:02
  your home office is the square footed that education alone be huge for people right and they could
• 1:27:08
  they could take with it they can take that information we have anywhere yeah now for for sure
• 1:27:12
  I mean those are the little like and that's part of being a CEO and and helping people find
• 1:27:17
  their way to the promised land of financial freedom is sharing with them your firsthand experiences
• 1:27:23
  on on those type of things how can you optimize it a big thank you to indeed for supporting
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  just pick a picture brand on a couple of few last topics about wealth about achievement about success
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  by the way actually we went into a lot of before I sort of pivot what do we not go and do what did
• 1:31:39
  I not ask you about that I should have asked you what's the mother words of wisdom that
• 1:31:45
  our top of mind for you right now well yeah you know what I think for your audience if they're
• 1:31:51
  if they're interested in getting into business is getting getting into it in the right head
• 1:31:58
  space I think a lot of times people they want to be their own boss they want to get into business
• 1:32:02
  but they don't understand the sacrifice and commitment that comes with it and the stress the
• 1:32:09
  the sleepless nights you know those those components a lot of people underestimate the pressures
• 1:32:16
  of running of running a business and meeting payrolls and doing those things so it's a yet you
• 1:32:24
  know it's um and I think talking about it before they get into it so they're kind of they can
• 1:32:30
  brace them getting the right head space that way when it comes they could say you know what we
• 1:32:34
  talked about this this is what it is you know and there's some setting the expectation you got it
• 1:32:39
  letting letting them understand that this is part of the this is part of the journey and
• 1:32:45
  rather than ducking from it embrace it because this is the challenges and these challenges never
• 1:32:53
  go away okay it might it might come in a different light a little different circumstance
• 1:33:00
  but it'll come in multiple times throughout your business career because that's just how being an
• 1:33:06
  entrepreneur is so you you have to embrace it and understand it and not freak out about it not
• 1:33:13
  walk around kicking the garbage can and you know screaming around the office that's not that's
• 1:33:18
  not productive right yeah that's smart I do like that the idea of surviving real conversations about
• 1:33:25
  what entrepreneurship is so that people aren't just like completely uh surprised when
• 1:33:32
  shit hits the fan because it will it will and I get people too they can't they can't make it in
• 1:33:38
  fact and my book impossible hill I talk about the you know preparation and the the first thing the
• 1:33:48
  first step of any change is making a plan just thinking about it okay where one day you wake up and
• 1:33:58
  you say I'm I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired I'm sick and tired of getting up at nine
• 1:34:03
  o'clock on somebody else's time I'm sick and I'm whatever your reasoning is so that's the first
• 1:34:08
  step of understanding I got to make a change okay beautiful second part is what do we want to change
• 1:34:16
  what's our plan like what all right well we we come to this conclusion this sucks and I don't
• 1:34:22
  like my life anymore doing this so I'm gonna change step one but then you don't want to step
• 1:34:28
  from there to something else that's a little different color but the same headache right so
• 1:34:32
  thinking about what you want to do but the third step is the most important and that is you have
• 1:34:38
  to make the jump and I can't tell you the amount of people that I work with over the years they do
• 1:34:44
  step one they get to step two but when it comes to step three actually making the jump they don't
• 1:34:49
  do it they'll Peter you know what I just had you know man I had some sleepless nights and I just
• 1:34:54
  I just wasn't feeling it you know I wasn't and you know and it's and in some people say well it's
• 1:35:00
  you know it's it's it's god it's the vine intervention and I listen to them and I say look
• 1:35:08
  it's not divine invention you're you're apprehensive because you're doing something you've never
• 1:35:14
  done before that's a perfectly normal headspace you know doubt is is a dream killer okay you're not
• 1:35:23
  keep in mind what we talked about here you're not bending the farm okay you're not bending the farm
• 1:35:28
  you are making a transition and we have planned for this we have set money aside for this so when
• 1:35:34
  you transition into this job this money is here to help offset you as you ramp this up right so we
• 1:35:41
  kind of have to go through those things but there's a lot of people they can never make the jump
• 1:35:46
  and that's okay and they just let this apprehension just build up and then it to the point where they
• 1:35:51
  say well I'm just not going to do it because and then when they when they make the decision I'm not
• 1:35:56
  going to do it and they just fall right back in their old space they come to realize hey look
• 1:36:02
  maybe this space isn't so bad because here's the benefits of it you are nine to five
• 1:36:08
  because where you're stepping into it's not nine to five you own a business it's seven days a week
• 1:36:12
  24 hours a day get your head around that I'll come on Peter nobody works hey I promise you
• 1:36:18
  it's seven days a week 24 hours a day it never leaves you it's you think about it a night before
• 1:36:22
  you go to bed you think about it first thing in the morning it's seven days a week if you own the
• 1:36:26
  business and if you're gonna be if you're gonna be a warrior if you're gonna be a warrior in your
• 1:36:32
  business that's the mindset you gotta be because you can't be a quitter you've got to be a fighter
• 1:36:37
  okay and you got to give it whatever it takes because you're gonna have those tough moments
• 1:36:41
  and if you cave every time you have a tough moment you're never gonna win you know I
• 1:36:46
  always say that entrepreneurship is probably not for you if you cave every time you have a tough
• 1:36:50
  moment yeah or you you know you're walking you know you can't handle stress you're crying you're
• 1:36:54
  freaked out you gotta get couch time because you're just a fucking mess right tell him look it's not
• 1:37:00
  it's you what you're contriving in the six inches between your ears you understand it's all it's
• 1:37:06
  all it's self-fulfilling you understand that you're you're in your own head okay what you're
• 1:37:12
  visualizing here and what you think is happening out there it's two different things what is going
• 1:37:17
  to happen out there is only gonna be the result if you stay where you're at you've got to make
• 1:37:22
  these change there's things that you can do that can offset that that can that can deflect some of
• 1:37:28
  that risk that's that coming you're just freaking out and you're not thinking you got to start
• 1:37:32
  thinking do you know what I mean play offense quit playing fucking defense all the time you gotta
• 1:37:38
  play some offense people don't get it it's a tough idea for people to wrap their head around because
• 1:37:45
  they get too stuck in their own head I mean this is this is why this is why it's important to have
• 1:37:51
  mentors people around you I mean even sometimes like Gina like my my better half when I'm when I'm
• 1:37:57
  really spiraling and I've been doing this for a minute and no one's immune because there'll
• 1:38:02
  always be points where shit is the fan then you're just like overthinking everything but having
• 1:38:06
  people close you whether or not it's we're not wife girlfriend advisor mentor whatever
• 1:38:14
  having somebody can just pull you out of that spiral is also helpful I mean it's tough to do it
• 1:38:20
  yourself you got to admit it's tough to do it yourself sometimes but and just having some
• 1:38:25
  having somebody pull you aside and say okay yeah let's take a deep breath let's get out of that
• 1:38:31
  thing so you almost have to remove yourself from it look at it and have somebody break it down
• 1:38:36
  and say look this is what we're dealing with it's not that we're because we're not going to let it
• 1:38:41
  get to there it's not we're not going to let it get to that point but that's this is what we have
• 1:38:46
  and here's what we need to do right and and it's just having somebody have that moment that
• 1:38:52
  that voice of reason from historical experience they've been there done it and you know how the
• 1:38:59
  story ends and you can help them through it that's that's what mentoring is all about and that's
• 1:39:04
  that's an important point for all of your people out there if they're going to have somebody who's
• 1:39:07
  them who's truly a mentor it's somebody that's truly going to lean in and understand what it is
• 1:39:13
  that you're dealing with you know sometimes it's easy to take just a broad brush all well you need
• 1:39:19
  to do this this and this well look you can't you can't do that because it's a very dynamic business
• 1:39:24
  world that we live in today with AI and all these great tools that are there it's a different dynamic
• 1:39:29
  so you got to make sure who's mentoring you who you're trusting that they're in and they understand
• 1:39:35
  the full context of what what it is that you're going through and what's going on within the dynamics
• 1:39:40
  of the business you can't you can't mentor someone in a business if you're not going to get into
• 1:39:45
  the business and understand it because you can't arm chuck quarterback what's going to happen is
• 1:39:50
  you're only going to see the big things as a mentor you're only going to see the big things
• 1:39:54
  you're not going to see the granular details you're not going to see the risk the hidden risk
• 1:39:59
  why because you didn't do your homework as a mentor you've been there you've hit one out of the
• 1:40:04
  park you're not really leaning in you're just kind of doing that you know you know what I'm saying
• 1:40:08
  I do and I think this is why I have I have such an issue with people that mentor at scale
• 1:40:15
  when they're dealing with like tons of entrepreneurs at the same time yeah
• 1:40:21
  maybe there's some high level wisdom that you can teach over to 500 different people that are
• 1:40:28
  going through your program but to really make an impact you do have to you do have to be in the
• 1:40:34
  weeds you got to be there and then it just like the friend of mine like I said my wheelhouse is
• 1:40:39
  franchising okay franchise and doesn't matter what it is okay my I built my career I built my
• 1:40:45
  empire in the fitness space but looking three years and and I'm not with not equal bowls anymore
• 1:40:51
  but in three years I took that from an idea no franchise locations to 70 73 open stores
• 1:40:59
  and 170 licenses sold so that's all franchise model right that that's all franchising it doesn't
• 1:41:05
  matter from selling fitness or assayables okay so franchising is my is my wheelhouse but my
• 1:41:13
  one of one of the the people who now is a very very good friend of mine he has a a a a home
• 1:41:19
  healthcare monitoring business and I don't that that's not my wheelhouse but what is my wheelhouse
• 1:41:26
  is the block and tackling of creating a business and entity from there all the way through the exit
• 1:41:34
  so how do we position it do we do we sell in and right now his his question is do I do I sell a
• 1:41:41
  portion of the company to take some chips off the table but he's growing this business so fast
• 1:41:46
  I mean I just said look if it were me because the the the first capital that you sell is going to be
• 1:41:51
  the most expensive you know what I mean and you don't need it you're spinning off so much cash
• 1:41:56
  right now take a take a small loan use it for whatever you need it for but he's he'll exit this
• 1:42:04
  business in the next two to three years and it'll be literally you know at least a half billion
• 1:42:10
  dollar company pretty amazing yeah but I mean that's where I mean if you're looking for mentors you
• 1:42:15
  don't always need just one either so you can help somebody with franchising you can help somebody
• 1:42:20
  figuring out exit strategy you can help somebody with a lot of different things but there's a lot
• 1:42:25
  but if I if I was going to ask something outside your wheelhouse you wouldn't be the right bit either
• 1:42:30
  which is why I don't like the idea of just having one mentor you should have multiple people that
• 1:42:35
  you learn from and and listen to and and I think that you shouldn't put any one person on a pedestal
• 1:42:40
  either I think that's a smart idea he's and he's got it he's he's put to he's got there's four of us
• 1:42:45
  that we serve on his executive okay so right there you have four people that all have their own
• 1:42:49
  experience they're all gonna help yeah you got it we're you know it works well for them but
• 1:42:54
  he's created a great business I love it you know you mentioned one thing that I thought was an
• 1:42:59
  interesting point you said when people go on this journey of starting something there's a
• 1:43:05
  couple different reasons as to why they become entrepreneurs in your opinion are there some
• 1:43:10
  reasons that are valid reasons to become an entrepreneur and other reasons that are not valid reasons
• 1:43:15
  to become an entrepreneur yeah the you know the naive one the naive and it's typically the young
• 1:43:21
  person I'm tired of working for the man okay we'll tell me what does that look like well you know
• 1:43:26
  I don't like that I got to be at a place at a certain time and this and that so okay so you want
• 1:43:31
  to be your own boss yes I do that's that's exactly what I want to be okay so they don't understand
• 1:43:38
  that when you're starting a business that it's going to be a hell of a lot more work in that
• 1:43:44
  nine to five that they had with so many more it's not just that you're gonna be there working longer
• 1:43:49
  hours it's that you're gonna be working for less pay in most cases early on and so I try to get them
• 1:43:56
  into the head space of it because it's not it's not some people just don't think about it they think
• 1:44:02
  I can I'm gonna be my own boss is gonna be easy I can if I want to go on a trip I go on a trip
• 1:44:07
  fishing golfing I'm gonna have all this free time that's the fruits of your effort from your hard
• 1:44:13
  work definitely not when you're in it not when you're in it and not when you're a startup and
• 1:44:17
  you're doing it with grassroots you know bootstrapping old-fashioned way and that's what I love too
• 1:44:22
  I love involved with companies where they are bootstrapping it it's not a guy going out he's gonna
• 1:44:28
  raise a couple million dollars he's gonna hire a staff everybody's getting fat salaries and he's
• 1:44:33
  got a frickin burn rate of you know 50 grand a month burn rate and you know that's not that's not
• 1:44:39
  for me that's not that's not my guy yeah that makes sense okay I want to I want to pull some sort
• 1:44:46
  of lost pieces of wisdom out of you so you grew up watching your dad run a grocery store what was
• 1:44:54
  your version of success back then and how has it changed to today you know when you grow up with
• 1:45:01
  very little I mean for me I'm a I'm a Christian and I I remember look it's embarrassing but you
• 1:45:08
  know God I'm sure rolls his eyes at me regularly but what I remember praying to God he God just let
• 1:45:17
  me make a hundred thousand dollars a year I will never ask for another thing okay because that was
• 1:45:23
  so much money that I couldn't even imagine it that if I was if I would make a hundred grand a year
• 1:45:28
  I would want for nothing all right so that's the that's the naive side of me that you know
• 1:45:35
  you know early on and what does that journey look and feel like so it's I was always being that
• 1:45:41
  I didn't have much money I was always motivated by money look that's the honest truth embarrassing
• 1:45:47
  or not it was true I was more like that was a lot of the people's truths too I was driven by money
• 1:45:52
  and and that was I get I get asked often and Peter you know what are you what are you one your
• 1:45:58
  biggest regrets and my it's the canned response that I say all the time is I wish I would have
• 1:46:04
  danced more in my career and what I mean by that is I sacrifice so much in that journey because I
• 1:46:12
  didn't want to be sloppy at what I was doing if I was going to be in it if I was going to be
• 1:46:17
  running in if this is my baby if I was the face of the brand I was not going to be sloppy about it
• 1:46:22
  I was always going to show up and and give it and give it an honest days work and if that meant seven days
• 1:46:28
  a week you know 15 hour day I would do it so that was just that was how I was raised and I was a
• 1:46:35
  product of that environment so today in hindsight and it's easier to to to for me to take a different
• 1:46:42
  perspective today because I've I financially you know one whatever that looks like you know I've
• 1:46:48
  won the financial battle but there's still remnants of that you know paranoia that that that still
• 1:46:56
  come in but I use it to my advantage you know I use it to motivate me and to get up and
• 1:47:01
  and and still fight the good fight and no I've I've heard this from a few people when they get
• 1:47:07
  a first big check they get massive anxieties they don't want to screw it up did you feel that um
• 1:47:13
  I don't the the first big check it wasn't anxiety it was excitement right that I it was excitement and
• 1:47:20
  a little bit of um you know disbelief I I knew that I was capable of it all right I mean I can
• 1:47:28
  I can tell you I can tell you exactly where I was with literally I was I was walking down the
• 1:47:35
  fairway of of a golf course on the first tee and my phone rings and it was my my accounts and my
• 1:47:44
  attorneys who would they just call me to say hey Peter the the funds have been the funds have
• 1:47:49
  landed in your account so as it thank you and I went to my little walls Fargo app and and saw
• 1:47:56
  the 47 million sitting my checking account and my eyes welled up a little bit not was golfing with
• 1:48:02
  some buddies and I knew that it was a big day for me but that that moment of looking at my personal
• 1:48:10
  checking account and seeing 47 million in there it was so overwhelming for me because it was suddenly
• 1:48:16
  it was that kid I was that I was that kid who went to school in a true school house youngest of seven
• 1:48:24
  quit college I mean if I was if I was a stock you would have shorted me for sure right and it was
• 1:48:29
  just that that validation that I I did it I actually did it right so I was an elation
• 1:48:38
  and obviously you know a very memorable moment for me but you know today as I sit back and
• 1:48:46
  look at that I appreciate that moment but then I also reflect that one of the things I'm most proud
• 1:48:52
  of is I'm I'm still that kid that that went to school in a two room schoolhouse and grew up in a
• 1:48:58
  small town yes I may I may drive some nice cars and I may live in nice homes but I'm a I'm a
• 1:49:07
  blues gene t-shirt kind of guy I don't need to flex and I'm the same guy I always I try to be
• 1:49:16
  humble and kind and generous those are qualities that I I try to take with me that that's who I
• 1:49:23
  hope I'm defined by I'm hope I hope I'm I hope that one day when when I die I hope that that
• 1:49:29
  my friends say that he was you know he was there for us when we needed him he was insightful he was
• 1:49:36
  you know considerate and compassionate and passionate about anything he did but those are the
• 1:49:41
  great qualities it's not some of the bullshit that comes with the tangible things that you acquire
• 1:49:47
  so your relationship with money I think you're you've maintained the pretty healthy relationship
• 1:49:54
  with money like after you've had these massive wins how do you make sure that your kids have the
• 1:50:01
  same relationship with money as you did growing up or they respected well they you know my my
• 1:50:08
  oldest son is just turned 30 and my daughter is 28 and I would have had a son who would have been
• 1:50:13
  26 but they were you know all three of them they're very compassionate and compassionate people
• 1:50:21
  and normal they're they're normal they're not spoiled little trust fund babies they're they're
• 1:50:26
  normal do you are you gonna give them anything yes yes for sure and I and I and I do I do right now
• 1:50:34
  because I I hope that you know I don't want my kids to to go through their 20s and 30s like I did
• 1:50:43
  broke okay you know what I mean it's if I'm if if I can't do all that I've done financially
• 1:50:52
  if I can't impact my children and this goes from my children to my ex-wife to my future wife to
• 1:51:01
  any of my philanthropic endeavors if I can't have an impact on the world after all I've been given
• 1:51:07
  what an embarrassment I mean when I'm at the I hope that when it's my day at the pearly gates
• 1:51:13
  that God says hey Peter well done you know I not look at all I did for you and look at what little
• 1:51:20
  you did for for anyone or anything that would be a miserable and huge failure in my in my opinion
• 1:51:28
  yeah it's interesting how people I agree with you I just think it's interesting how people that
• 1:51:33
  make a ton of money handle that succession with their kids because it's not an easy again these
• 1:51:37
  are not things that are taught right so you got to figure it out no and you know what I mean there
• 1:51:42
  are there are some businesses you know a lot of the things that I'm involved with like I put
• 1:51:46
  I put when I have an exit from any of these companies that I can solve for I I put the money to
• 1:51:52
  work for me okay but there's other businesses that are there they're physically there for instance
• 1:51:58
  my toss a lodge in Africa right I mean these are these are things that my kids are going to inherit
• 1:52:03
  right and and yeah and I talk to my oldest son about that just like some real estate I own some
• 1:52:09
  rental stuff that I own that these are the things that will come with and you know how you manage
• 1:52:14
  those things you know having managing cash flow of properties rental incomes you know is there
• 1:52:22
  is there a strategy you have so that your kids don't end up spoiled is it making them work is it
• 1:52:27
  what is it they what they learned early on when they when they were so faster they're only
• 1:52:31
  just watching this yeah yeah when they were 16 I made them go get jobs yeah so I mean they
• 1:52:38
  because I wanted them to experience getting up showering and showing up on time for someone else
• 1:52:47
  accountability okay accountability and then working with sometimes you know colorful personalities
• 1:52:55
  that aren't necessarily the most rational right because that's the dynamics of the workforce
• 1:53:00
  out there of just people in general so I wanted them to experience that but now I'm at a place where
• 1:53:06
  you know if I have a business that I think my kids can have a positive impact with I I have them
• 1:53:12
  get involved you know which is a real blessing you know I work I work with my son in which I
• 1:53:18
  love I love the opportunity without what a blessing and then my my daughter too she she did some
• 1:53:24
  work for me at nautical bulls but now she's she lives in Savannah and she you know she's just
• 1:53:30
  looking for her next thing but she's she's fine she's married you know great gal has a great
• 1:53:35
  husband and then and now the good head on their shoulders and that's tough that's that's the
• 1:53:39
  most important thing she has that both of them have amazing amazing head on their shoulders rational
• 1:53:46
  you know critical thinking skills they use good judgments and they're they're really really
• 1:53:52
  good good people what would be the advice that you will give somebody who thinks making
• 1:53:57
  X amount of money will make them happy look I mean as cliche as it sounds is the truth yeah that
• 1:54:03
  money can't buy a happiness look that is the truth I will also tell you if you have an option
• 1:54:10
  between money and being poor take the money okay right life is easier when you have money
• 1:54:18
  because it's one box that you can check you know and and I think people that have money that
• 1:54:24
  that continue to beat the drum of money can't buy happiness to just just for me my personal
• 1:54:29
  perspective on it there's a little bit of bullshit in that personally I just say look let's face
• 1:54:35
  it when you have money you have choices you have you have more choices you get to have choices
• 1:54:42
  the cars you drive the clothes you wear where your kids go to school the house that you live in the
• 1:54:46
  trips you go on you have choices okay and you can insulate yourself from some of the noise that
• 1:54:52
  goes on in society today you can buffer that because you have financial resources to buffer yourself
• 1:54:58
  from that nonsense I'll you know some of the bullshit that has gone on the last four years right
• 1:55:03
  where you know it's been crazy town let's face it yeah and if you want your kids to go to a good
• 1:55:08
  school or if you want just good role models if you want like just good energy around your family
• 1:55:13
  you have the opportunity to buy it it's nice you got it but but the you know the other side of it the
• 1:55:19
  anxiety the pressures the societal pressure that just people in general have I mean that doesn't go
• 1:55:25
  away and you know the relationships that you have the hurt feelings the pressure that you have on
• 1:55:30
  whatever it looks like you know and pressure is a mindset and that's that a lot of times when
• 1:55:36
  I deal with people that have struggled with pressure it's it's it's self-inflicted pressure
• 1:55:42
  so when I'm trying what I try to help them through is look the pressure that you're putting
• 1:55:46
  on yourself is is only from the person you see in the mirror you're that self-inflicted pressure
• 1:55:52
  from you're trying to please somebody you're trying to in you know you're trying to prove something
• 1:55:57
  to your your parents maybe or to yourself you know and you can use that in a positive way
• 1:56:04
  but just don't let it beat you down and turn you into something that you're not well the reason
• 1:56:09
  I ask about relationship with money and if you know if somebody's thinking if I make this much money
• 1:56:14
  what we'll do for my life yeah it gives you freedom but one thing that I think people get stuck in
• 1:56:21
  it's almost like a loop where they don't come from money and then they find a way to make money
• 1:56:26
  but then they can't stop and then they just keep and they keep pursuing things just I mean any
• 1:56:31
  billionaire in the world has a little bit wrong with them because the amount of stuff you have to
• 1:56:37
  subject yourself to to get to that point is just ridiculous I mean you even made a point
• 1:56:44
  30 million dollars you never have to work again for most people they can't spend the interest
• 1:56:48
  that you'd be making off of 30 million dollars in a year unless you're really trying right
• 1:56:54
  two million dollars you have three million dollars you have lifestyles phenomenal for most people
• 1:56:58
  so I think it's important to understand you have money is important money buys freedom but also
• 1:57:03
  know your number and then also know what season of life you're in is it the season where you are
• 1:57:08
  hustling working unlimited hours a week and if it's not that season then maybe the season is
• 1:57:13
  something else but just I think it's better to just understand all of these ideas so that you don't
• 1:57:18
  just get stuck working for just working with no relationship no no spouse no relationship with
• 1:57:25
  your kids physical health mental health has gone down the shitter until you die which is also not good
• 1:57:30
  yeah it's it's interesting how people many people live a life of isolation um and that's an
• 1:57:39
  environment that that put themselves in and look you got to you got to put them you know back out
• 1:57:44
  there and I deal with that I deal with that a fair amount with with people that have maybe maybe
• 1:57:51
  they they had a company they they acquired some level of wealth they changed now they're divorced
• 1:57:57
  and they're you know mid fifties or older and they feel somewhat isolated they they they're
• 1:58:06
  out of the they're out of the game right and and they don't want to be that guy that's because
• 1:58:10
  they put their head down they built and they put their head up and then realize that everybody
• 1:58:14
  else has left them you got it everyone's gone yeah their their their wife has gone you know he's
• 1:58:19
  gone he's checked out he thinks the grass is greener he's got money now yeah more people are paying
• 1:58:24
  attention to them for the wrong reasons yeah and you have to figure out and he's successfully
• 1:58:30
  who's actually paying attention to you authentically or who's just trying to get something from you
• 1:58:34
  it's you see it all the time and and the more you have the more people you know poke at you and
• 1:58:40
  they want they want they buy it for your time and and uh it it comes with it you can't let it
• 1:58:46
  you can't let it uh call us you to the point where you don't open yourself up to people but it's
• 1:58:52
  it's disheartening when people come up and they're you know hey Peter I I read this or I saw this
• 1:58:58
  about you you know great to meet you blah blah blah and you're having a nice conversation with
• 1:59:02
  them and say look a would you mind looking at this for me at you know so it's a little different
• 1:59:07
  I thought they were just coming up to be nice but really there was a real underneath all of that
• 1:59:10
  there was kind of a hidden agenda and yeah and I've learned that when people can come up to me and
• 1:59:16
  they and they cite some things that happen in my life the silver lining that I put in it is
• 1:59:22
  what at least they did a little homework there's probably a pitch coming after that homework but
• 1:59:28
  they did a little homework so they didn't just come up and blindside me they they did a little
• 1:59:32
  homework on me and my family or whatever it might be so I tried to get in the pen for the doubt
• 1:59:37
  I never I never am offended by people asking you know no I don't I try not to because I think of
• 1:59:45
  what a blessing that that someone would want you know my opinion or want me to so I got to spin it
• 1:59:52
  that way otherwise you become cynical right yeah you're very positive I appreciate that you're
• 1:59:58
  very positive I try to be because I know where I came from right and when you know when you when
• 2:00:03
  you don't lose sight of where you came from you can appreciate the journey that you've been on you
• 2:00:08
  appreciate all the life experiences the good and the bad and the hurt in all of it that comes with
• 2:00:14
  success and you and then you realize as you get older you realize perspective and that is life
• 2:00:21
  and none of us are safe from it we're all going on going to experience life in a different way
• 2:00:26
  and it is what it is you just got a tuck and roll with some of it yeah um I want I want people to
• 2:00:34
  to be able to connect with you and sort of like sort of follow along with like what you're building next
• 2:00:38
  and if they want to work with you they can reach out as well so where where should people connect
• 2:00:43
  with you where do you like to send people socials I send them right to my Instagram the good
• 2:00:48
  Instagram yeah you're putting a whole bunch of podcasts up on there too I'm not following yeah yeah
• 2:00:52
  it's Instagram is bet which is just Peter underscore fountain and that's where people in
• 2:00:58
  and you know if you've got questions or whatnot that's that's the place to reach me I love it um
• 2:01:05
  is there anything else that you wanted to go into no I think you know this a good interview
• 2:01:09
  there's a there's a lot of media on the bone here for I know it was a lot that's why I know
• 2:01:14
  so the you know just for your people out there for your entrepreneur audience a lot of a lot of
• 2:01:20
  the audience they are on yeah so for your entrepreneurial audience out there the for for anyone
• 2:01:26
  that's curious about what I do now so what I do now as I said seven years ago I step down as the
• 2:01:33
  CEO of lip brands the one of the first calls I got was from Forbes I'm a Forbes masterclass
• 2:01:37
  instructor and and what that's afforded me to do is people reach out to me when they have
• 2:01:42
  companies and they're trying to grow the company either either they're trying to either grow it
• 2:01:48
  and they want help with the trajectory or they're trying to exit or their sales are flat and they
• 2:01:53
  need to pivot whatever it might be and and for those people that might that might find value in
• 2:02:00
  in me sharing my experience and helping them get to the promised land of whatever that exit looks
• 2:02:06
  like to reach out to me that because I'm not saying that I will that I will commit to you because as
• 2:02:12
  as I mentioned you before we started recording what I'll do is I'll work with you for a couple
• 2:02:17
  of days I'll understand your business and if I like it then I'll get involved with you and when
• 2:02:21
  I get involved with you I'm committed to you I'm very selective and very selective and I do it
• 2:02:27
  for equity in your company and I only do it for equity I don't draw any salary and the only
• 2:02:33
  caveat is if we we're going to build your company because if I'm going to get involved the the goal
• 2:02:38
  is to grow your company and to exit so there's got to be something there that within five years
• 2:02:44
  that one of two things need to happen either a you're going to buy me out of my equity
• 2:02:49
  because you want to keep your business for your family or we're going to exit and if it's the exit
• 2:02:54
  I help you through that process as well which I've done three times and by the way I mean if
• 2:02:59
  somebody has built a large company they they understand this but I'm just going to put it out
• 2:03:04
  there that's a really good deal it's a great deal that's a very good deal yeah because most people
• 2:03:08
  like you're retired you're retired now I mean you have investments and whatnot but you are not
• 2:03:12
  an operator in any companies right now all I do is I mentor and I lay out I lay out strategic plans
• 2:03:18
  I mean even if this is keeping this is keeping you just keeping you busy but this is like this is
• 2:03:23
  fun I love it I love talking shop yeah that's why I love doing I love doing podcasts I love talking
• 2:03:30
  shop right and and it drives my my my soon to be wife it drives her a little crazy because I
• 2:03:36
  you know I like I like getting in the weeds and and talking shop with people you know what I mean
• 2:03:42
  and understanding their business how they get into it where's it at today where would you like it to
• 2:03:46
  be how are you going to exit the business you know those are all fun conversations like to have a
• 2:03:52
  3x exited entrepreneur built a company well over nine figure valuation and to not be drawing
• 2:03:58
  an advisor salary is very rare yeah and here's what I do I mean from my perspective context I think
• 2:04:05
  I think Kevin O'Leary doesn't even talk to you unless you give him 10% a Kevin O'Leary is like
• 2:04:10
  10% plus I think there's a retainer in there as well yeah he's he's expensive yeah no kidding
• 2:04:17
  but look for my from my perspective you know the the equity that I take in these companies
• 2:04:22
  is anywhere from 20 to 30% but you know my goal and it's just an it's an easy never above my goal
• 2:04:30
  is to build a company that's 50 hundred million dollar company or more that's that's my goal I'm
• 2:04:35
  not I'm not in it to create a five million dollar company that's not my jam most people I think
• 2:04:40
  if they're looking to work with you they're also not in it for that exactly yeah yeah and the and
• 2:04:46
  together we lock arms even nautical bulls as an example I grew that company I put all the
• 2:04:51
  infrastructure in place I grew it and I and I loan the company over half million dollars you
• 2:04:57
  know of of working capital okay that's not something I do but I believed in that company and
• 2:05:02
  and yeah I love yeah it's very good so if people are interested they can reach out to you do
• 2:05:09
  on Instagram Instagram is just DM yeah just just Instagram me and say hey Peter I saw your podcast
• 2:05:14
  yeah I'd like to talk to you about my company and what's up you know that's so other was truly
• 2:05:20
  I got you they leave me their number and I'll call them otherwise you know they're trying to
• 2:05:24
  email me and and you know if I like what that what I see I'll get into my cell number and you know
• 2:05:29
  that we connect good good um I'll I'll ask this is one last sort of like idea that we can sort of
• 2:05:34
  chat about quick because I know that it's sort of something that you focus on a lot we did not
• 2:05:39
  talk about we probably do a whole other podcast we talk about franchising we didn't talk about like
• 2:05:44
  growth sales marketing we didn't talk about anything like normal stuff that's fun it's for another day
• 2:05:49
  you can come back you're down the street you can come back that's easy it's perfect um but I was
• 2:05:55
  going to say just some like last words of wisdom for entrepreneurs obviously it is very specific
• 2:06:01
  based on what they're building but general ideas on growth and scaling what are some things that
• 2:06:06
  you'd like to leave people with if you have a business that is and it has nothing to do with
• 2:06:14
  how much cash is a cost to get into this business but if you have a business that is
• 2:06:18
  filling a void in society today and and here's a lot of people need to understand there's a lot of
• 2:06:24
  there's a lot of opportunities out there where you're just going to take something that's right
• 2:06:29
  there and you're going to enhance it and make it better and you can build a business around that
• 2:06:33
  some people think they have to invent the next paperclip or you know what I mean they got to invent
• 2:06:37
  something that's never been seen before hey look find something that's that's being embraced
• 2:06:44
  and if you can make it better that's step number one step number two trajectory how do you get growth
• 2:06:49
  I'm a big fan of franchising why think about it for me I built thousands of gyms if I was going to
• 2:06:56
  do that privately I would have had to have several hundred million dollars to do that okay literally
• 2:07:02
  all right so that that whole journey is a whole other context for me franchising what does that
• 2:07:09
  mean I mean believe it or not I started snap fitness with about 400,000 cash okay 400,000 cash
• 2:07:18
  is what I put into I built a couple of clubs leases whatnot and built that into a 200 million dollar
• 2:07:24
  company with multiple exits along the way all right so it can be done so I tell people look
• 2:07:29
  franchising is a great venue is a great vehicle and you can go from think about it with me with
• 2:07:36
  snap fitness I took an idea to my first exit which was six years later so an idea on a legal pad
• 2:07:45
  to my first exit six years a company valued at a hundred million dollars that is how fast it
• 2:07:51
  can happen it's fast and it's unbelievable okay and with some of these concepts that's what you have
• 2:07:58
  to do you're kind of you're kind of going to get in and get out all right because you get in you're
• 2:08:02
  ride that thing and you the goal is to sell it just before their crescendo okay because everything
• 2:08:09
  has a life to it they they all do right and you exit and you're going to get a premium on that exit
• 2:08:15
  because everything that you're showing is up into the right so I'm a big fan of franchising finding
• 2:08:22
  a way finding a way to grow as quick as possible leverage other people's money leverage something
• 2:08:28
  so that you're not because you can build a business fast you can build a business slow you can
• 2:08:32
  build with lots of friction as little friction as possible just make it easier on yourself and you
• 2:08:37
  know what with franchising there is there's a huge appetite out there in the general population of
• 2:08:42
  people that want to be their own boss and the reason they want franchising is because it gives them
• 2:08:47
  an opportunity to step into a business in a box so theoretically if you've done your job right as
• 2:08:54
  the franchise or you eliminated much of the road rass and hesitation and challenges that come
• 2:09:00
  with a startup business that's the goal is get into a franchise and and and that's that's my
• 2:09:06
  wheelhouse is creating systems and processes for smooth sales process real estate process build out
• 2:09:14
  marketing customer growth retention exit yeah I love it all those things that will be a second
• 2:09:22
  podcast we can do that that'd be a whole thing yeah and we can do another one to where we talk
• 2:09:27
  about uh we can wrap it in the one we talk about franchise scale growth talk about some of the
• 2:09:31
  problems that you deal with you do some case studies of the people that you're working with that
• 2:09:35
  be fun too yeah okay um last question I like to ask uh so you've had an incredible career um we've
• 2:09:43
  spoken a little bit about your family as well and your kids and they're killing it right now and
• 2:09:47
  they're doing quite well um but if you only had the opportunity to pass one lesson onto your kids
• 2:09:54
  out of everything that you've ever learned what would be that lesson will be the most important
• 2:09:57
  thing you want to leave them with boy there's so many but if I only had one thing I would say
• 2:10:04
  don't don't don't underestimate the value of peace in your life okay don't don't underestimate
• 2:10:14
  the the value of that and so what is peace well that's for each person to decide
• 2:10:20
  where they find their peace but wherever you find your peace acknowledge where that is and hold
• 2:10:26
  it close because it's easy to get lost in in the whole um dynamics of being an entrepreneur
• 2:10:35
  assuming that that's your audience you know if you're if you're not in business and whatnot
• 2:10:40
  it's much easier to find your peace and your comfort right but when you're in business there's so
• 2:10:45
  many other effects that come into play that can undermine that that peace that you're looking for
• 2:10:53
  and you don't want to get to a place where your whole life has been a freaking grind and you have
• 2:10:59
  little pockets of peace along the way do you know what I mean so that that's from my own my own as
• 2:11:06
  I look back and reflect you know there are times I wish I wish I had held my peace you know lantern
• 2:11:13
  a little bit closer but I'm a product of how I grew up you know what what's again level of paranoia
• 2:11:20
  came from nothing and fear of loss all play a part of it you know fear of loss is a big part
• 2:11:27
  because when you have it it's fear of my gosh what if this all disappeared tomorrow could I
• 2:11:33
  adjust and fight my way back you know what I mean yeah but I think that's I think that's very wise
• 2:11:38
  I think that being able to being able to just make space for peace in your life because if you're
• 2:11:45
  going to a lot of people listen to this are entrepreneurs they're going to build anything it'll be
• 2:11:50
  very easy to lose that for sure you got to you got to understand what you're where your peace
• 2:11:55
  comes from and you got to it's it's got to be sacred it's got to be you know I love I love one
• 2:12:01
  of my favorite pastimes is playing golf okay carve time out to do that okay because it's unhealthy
• 2:12:08
  yes you're gonna have sometimes where you can't do it you have to shift schedules or whatnot but
• 2:12:12
  find your peace acknowledge it and then hold it close