Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1158 - The Upside of Adversity: Children Learn Resilience From Coping With Difficulties

Transcript

#1158 - The Upside of Adversity: Children Learn Resilience From Coping With Difficulties · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:05
Speaker 1: I am known for making provocative statements. Today, my provocative
0:08
Speaker 1: statement starts the podcast your kids should do at least
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Speaker 1: one thing per week that poses enough risk that they
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Speaker 1: could end up in the hospital or in the doctor's surgery. Hello,
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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Families podcast, Real Parenting Solutions every
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Speaker 1: day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin
0:26
Speaker 1: and Kylie Coulson.
0:27
Speaker 2: So I'm struggling with this. You did say you were
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Speaker 2: being provocative.
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Speaker 1: Of course I am.
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Speaker 3: But do you really believe this?
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Speaker 1: Yes? I do, and I'll tell you why. Because our
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Speaker 1: children need to take risks, they need to experience adversity.
0:40
Speaker 1: This is how they become resilient. Where we're getting so
0:43
Speaker 1: many inquiries from schools and from organizations who want to
0:46
Speaker 1: hire me to speak this year, and everyone's saying parents
0:50
Speaker 1: are worried about their kids and their resilience. Parents are
0:52
Speaker 1: worried about their anxious kids. Kids don't want to take risks,
0:55
Speaker 1: kids don't want to leave the house. We've got to
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Speaker 1: get our kids out of the house in engaging with life,
1:00
Speaker 1: and I think that one of the best ways to
1:03
Speaker 1: do that is to encounter physical challenges. Because when you
1:07
Speaker 1: encounter those physical challenges, you learn where the boundaries are,
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Speaker 1: You learn them in really healthy, positive ways, and you
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Speaker 1: also become resilient because you discover that you can overcome
1:18
Speaker 1: hard things. I just I really really think that our
1:22
Speaker 1: kids have got to be doing hard things, especially hard
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Speaker 1: physical things. They tend to do them socially anyway with
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Speaker 1: other people. There is research that shows as we increase
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Speaker 1: risky play in our children's lives, they are more resilient.
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Speaker 1: They are more socially adept, they tend to do better academically,
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Speaker 1: they are more resilient.
1:39
Speaker 2: During the holidays, your parents had a couple of the
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Speaker 2: grandkids for a few days.
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Speaker 1: It was so nice.
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Speaker 2: This was our young Emily's first solo trip. Yes home,
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Speaker 2: it's a really really big deal.
1:54
Speaker 1: That is a big deal. In fact, that ties in
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Speaker 1: with exactly what we're talking about.
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Speaker 2: It's a huge deal.
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Speaker 1: I hadn't thought of.
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Speaker 2: That huge deal. And everything was going great. Emily was
2:03
Speaker 2: having an absolute.
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Speaker 1: Blasting away for like three or four days.
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Speaker 2: I get a message from your mum. It says, note
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Speaker 2: to self. Ice skating is a hard contact sport. Took
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Speaker 2: Emily and Emma to the doctors as they were both
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Speaker 2: so bruised this morning. I was worried they had breaks.
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Speaker 3: But it's all good, thank goodness.
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Speaker 2: And she's got a picture of the doctor's surgery.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: I was like, she's not doing me any favors.
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Speaker 1: Here, not doing herself any face.
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Speaker 3: No, not at all.
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Speaker 2: But here's this thing. We hear it time and time again.
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Speaker 2: Schools have banned climbing trees.
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Speaker 1: Well, you're not allowed to play brandings anymore either, because
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, that's probably not a good example.
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Speaker 2: How many schools don't have monkey bars anymore, it don't exist.
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Speaker 2: There are literally schools where there's no playgrounds.
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Speaker 1: So you know what my reaction was when that text
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Speaker 1: came through from mum. What was I was like, that's awesome,
2:58
Speaker 1: that is so awesome. She went ice skating, Like if
3:02
Speaker 1: you haven't been, I mean, we don't ice skate. When
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Speaker 1: on an ice skating family, you're actually reasonable on the
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Speaker 1: ice when we've done it maybe twice in twenty seven
3:09
Speaker 1: years because you used to roll a skate or something
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Speaker 1: like that. But I'm not good on the ice and
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Speaker 1: when you fall over, it hurts more than landing on concrete.
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Speaker 1: I mean, it is just so painful.
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Speaker 2: But here's the crazy thing. Your kids fall over and
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Speaker 2: what did they do?
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Speaker 1: They sometimes they cry and sometimes they break a wrist,
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Speaker 1: but they usually get up and they keep on going.
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Speaker 1: They want to master it, they want to learn how
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Speaker 1: to do it. They're naturally usually resilient.
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Speaker 2: I remember the first time I got on a pair
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Speaker 2: of roller skates. They were like two sizes too big
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Speaker 2: for me. My cousin had got them for Christmas. They
3:41
Speaker 2: lived on a property where the house was at the
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Speaker 2: top of the driveway, so in order to go anywhere
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Speaker 2: you had to go down a really steep driveway to
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Speaker 2: get to the road.
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Speaker 3: That's how I learned to roll a skates.
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Speaker 2: I fell over how many times I actually am, so
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Speaker 2: I have no idea how I survived it.
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Speaker 1: So we've got our kids involved in bouldering, which is
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Speaker 1: sort of rock climbing but without a harness. Indoor rock climbing,
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Speaker 1: and you land on crash pads, but nevertheless, sometimes there
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Speaker 1: are maybe three meters they get pretty high on those
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Speaker 1: bouldering walls. We've got Emily surfing. One of our kids
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Speaker 1: is into horseback riding. That's the whole reason that they
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Speaker 1: were on the central coast of my parents. Anyway, we've
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Speaker 1: got kids who love to skateboard, bike riding, climbing a tree.
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Speaker 1: This is what I mean when I say our kids
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Speaker 1: should do at least one thing per week where they
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Speaker 1: could end up in hospital or could end up at
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Speaker 1: the doctor's surgery, because when they start to do these things,
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Speaker 1: this is what they learn. They learn to be resilient.
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Speaker 1: What happens with so many parents is we look at
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Speaker 1: any kind of adversity, whether it's physical adversity, which is
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Speaker 1: what we're talking about here, or emotional adversity, or psychological adversity,
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Speaker 1: or cognitive adversity, or social adversity or emotional adversity. In
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Speaker 1: other words, any hardship, any trial, any thing that could
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Speaker 1: be a setback. Too many parents sort of the helicopter parent, right,
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Speaker 1: This is the thing. This is why I predicted that
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Speaker 1: lighthouse parenting needs to come in twenty twenty five, because
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Speaker 1: it's such a such an improvement on the helicopter thing.
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Speaker 1: When we treat all adversity as inherently negative, we do
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Speaker 1: this tremendous disservice to our children and their ability to
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Speaker 1: develop adaptive coping mechanisms that are going to help them
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Speaker 1: in the future. When they experienced adversity again.
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Speaker 2: When Chanell, our eldest was born and she started crawling
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Speaker 2: very early on in the piece, I was blown away
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Speaker 2: with how many times people would come into our home
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Speaker 2: and they would be absolutely on edge because we had stairs,
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Speaker 2: and she used to love climbing the couch and I
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Speaker 2: would let her and they would be like, she's got
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Speaker 2: to fall, She's got a fall, and we said, yeah,
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Speaker 2: but if she falls, she'll work it out. And obviously
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Speaker 2: I wasn't wanting her to hurt herself, and we had
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Speaker 2: put safety parameters in place to ensure that if she
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Speaker 2: did fall, you know, like I would put she.
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Speaker 1: Wasn't falling into a pool or falling three meters onto
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Speaker 1: I put the cushion crocodiles and razor blades.
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Speaker 2: I put the couch cushions on the floor so that
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Speaker 2: she was climbing onto a hard base and if she fell,
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Speaker 2: she was falling onto a soft cushion.
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Speaker 1: In other words, it's a developmentally appropriate challenge and the
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Speaker 1: risk is also developmentally appropriate.
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Speaker 2: It's about scaffolding. And when she started wanting to climb
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Speaker 2: the stairs, I taught her how to use the stairs,
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Speaker 2: how to be able to slide down backwards, so that
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Speaker 2: her feet went first, not her face, and she worked
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Speaker 2: it out with the couch. She literally fell off the
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Speaker 2: couch once and she went, oh, I don't like that,
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Speaker 2: and that was it. So between the two of us,
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Speaker 2: I showed her what she needed to do to do
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Speaker 2: it the right way, and she never did it again.
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Speaker 1: Obviously, some kids are quicker learners than others. I know
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Speaker 1: a friend of mine when I was a kid, who
6:45
Speaker 1: rode his bicycle off a balcony, a second floor balcony,
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Speaker 1: because he just thought that the first time when it
6:51
Speaker 1: didn't work, he did it wrong, so we should try again.
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Speaker 1: But for the most part, most part, kids learn pretty well.
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Speaker 1: After the break, we're going to talk about what Stanford
7:00
Speaker 1: University research tells us about how we approach threat and
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Speaker 1: adversity and challenge and what it can teach our children.
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Speaker 1: Plus seven action steps for you as a parent to
7:11
Speaker 1: become more comfortable and help your kids become more comfortable.
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Speaker 1: We're doing at least one thing per week that could
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Speaker 1: lend you or them or everyone in hospital. Stanford University
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Speaker 1: is where Carol Dweck, the professor who has done all
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Speaker 1: the growth mindset research, is based and it's become a
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Speaker 1: growth mindset hub. Some recent research from Stanford looking at
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Speaker 1: parental mindset shows this when children experience a challenge, when
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Speaker 1: they experience something that could be painful, a physical adversity,
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Speaker 1: when they experience a setback or a trial or something hard,
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Speaker 1: if the parent's response to the child's adversity is I
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Speaker 1: need to protect you from that. John Hate in his
8:01
Speaker 1: book The Coddling of the American Mind calls this safetyism.
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Speaker 1: I need to protect my child as much as possible,
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Speaker 1: rather than as much as it's necessary. Our children then
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Speaker 1: adopt the same mindset. I need to be afraid. This
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Speaker 1: is bad. Fearfulness and anxiety would be the appropriate response
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Speaker 1: to this situation. Again, and it doesn't matter whether it's
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Speaker 1: social with a friend situation or physical like we've been
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Speaker 1: talking about for much of this podcast, or academic because
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Speaker 1: they might fail to test. Whatever it is. When parents
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Speaker 1: see failures and setbacks and challenges and adversities as a
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Speaker 1: problem to be avoided, children adopt the same mindset. Unsurprisingly,
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Speaker 1: when parents see adversity and challenge and difficulty and falling
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Speaker 1: over on the ice and spraining your wrist or ending
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Speaker 1: up with a whole lot of bruises as an opportunity
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Speaker 1: for growth. The kids love it. They adopt the same approach,
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Speaker 1: the same mindset to the challenges that they face.
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Speaker 2: There was a trend last year on socials where parents
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Speaker 2: holding a baby would pretend to walk into a wall
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Speaker 2: and you'd hear them slap.
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Speaker 3: The wall with their hand.
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
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Speaker 2: Depending on how the parent reacted to that depended on
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Speaker 2: whether or not the baby cried or was oblivious. I
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Speaker 2: missed that to the slap and the times when the
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Speaker 2: parents were like, oh, instant babies, baby.
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Speaker 1: Looks to the parents for the cue. That's right, be
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Speaker 1: afraid of this.
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Speaker 2: Our babies literally from the time they're born, they're looking
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Speaker 2: to us for facial cues.
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Speaker 1: That makes me think of Jared and Chanell and Indy.
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Speaker 1: For those of you who knew to the pod, Chanelle's
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Speaker 1: our eldest daughter. She and her husband have an eighteen
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Speaker 1: month old baby. Now I can't believe that we're grandparents
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Speaker 1: have been eighteen month old. But they've just got a
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Speaker 1: constant smile on their face. And whenever Indy does something,
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Speaker 1: even if she hurts herself, they just find it hilarious,
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Speaker 1: not in a cruel, nasty way, but rather they just go, oh, whoops,
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Speaker 1: and they laugh about it, and then they give her
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Speaker 1: an opportunity to do it again straight away. It's magic
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Speaker 1: to watch as I think about it. That's what I
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Speaker 1: do in the surf with Emily, with our eleven year
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Speaker 1: old almost eleven year old, when she falls off a wave,
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Speaker 1: when she knows dives, when she gets hit by something
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Speaker 1: that was a bit bigger and harder than she was expecting,
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Speaker 1: I just crack up. I'm like, I can't believe your
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Speaker 1: hand on that. And she's taking those cues, and she's
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Speaker 1: more confident now in the water and more excited about
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Speaker 1: surfing because she's realizing it's not as scary as I thought.
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Speaker 1: In fact, even as I think about this. When I
10:31
Speaker 1: was still a university lecturer and decided that I wanted
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Speaker 1: to start happy families, I went to my parents, you
10:38
Speaker 1: remember this, And I said to them, I'm about to
10:40
Speaker 1: leave the safety and security of an academic role and
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Speaker 1: start a business. I know nothing about it. I don't
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Speaker 1: know how to do any of this, and I'm pretty nervous.
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Speaker 1: And my parents, their faces, their demeanor, their attitude was,
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Speaker 1: this is so exciting for you, how wonderful behind you
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Speaker 1: go for it.
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Speaker 3: We had a mortgage.
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Speaker 1: We had five kids at the time.
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Speaker 2: This was a really big leap of faith on our part.
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Speaker 1: And they said you've got this, and they said we're
11:12
Speaker 1: here for you.
11:12
Speaker 3: I will catch you if you fall.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. I literally said them, can we live in your
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Speaker 1: garage if this goes south?
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Speaker 3: They did say no to that.
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Speaker 1: They said no, They did live in the house instead.
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Speaker 1: But it was that support that made me feel like
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Speaker 1: I was resilient enough to go and do it.
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Speaker 2: It was, well, it gave you the courage to jump,
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Speaker 2: because I don't think you would have without that.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. And I wasn't saying I need you to give
11:33
Speaker 1: me money, I want you to support me as I
11:35
Speaker 1: do this startup. Rather, it was if this fails, can
11:39
Speaker 1: you be the safety net? And they didn't hesitate. So
11:43
Speaker 1: what are the action steps if you want your children
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Speaker 1: to do something risky, if you want your children to
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Speaker 1: learn resilience, if you want them to do hard things
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Speaker 1: because you know that it will equip them to do
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Speaker 1: harder things in the future and therefore be stronger and
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Speaker 1: more capable. We have seven action steps to help you.
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Speaker 2: So Number one, we've got to look for ways to
12:02
Speaker 2: enable our kids to see failures as an opportunity for growth.
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Speaker 1: So let me get really practical about this. This is
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Speaker 1: when they fail and you say, well, that must hurt.
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Speaker 1: So we let them know that we're they're supporting them,
12:13
Speaker 1: and we say, if you were to do it again,
12:15
Speaker 1: how would you do it differently? Notice that you fell
12:17
Speaker 1: over on the ice, Notice that you hurt your wrist.
12:20
Speaker 1: What other ways can we help you to get better
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Speaker 1: at ice skating? As the metaphor, and it might be
12:24
Speaker 1: that we use one of those you know, those penguins.
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Speaker 1: Penguins the walkers that go in front or they hold
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Speaker 1: the wall, we hold their hands.
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Speaker 3: Real they need to make adult versions of those. I
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Speaker 3: just use it one.
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Speaker 1: I just used the kid one last time, I know.
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Speaker 1: So that's the first one. You frame that failure or
12:40
Speaker 1: that adversity of that challenge as an opportunity for growth, and.
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Speaker 2: That builds beautifully on the second one. Because of what
12:45
Speaker 2: you did, you're creating a supportive environment in which your
12:49
Speaker 2: kids can work through the tricky emotions that come with failure.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, which is what my parents did as well. They're
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Speaker 1: just so beautifully I love reflecting on that story.
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Speaker 2: Number three, allowing our children to experience appropriate levels of challenge.
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Speaker 2: If we go back to the story that we shared
13:05
Speaker 2: earlier with Chanelle as a young baby, as she started
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Speaker 2: to crawl and started to move around, one to explore
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Speaker 2: taking the cushions of the couch and putting them on
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Speaker 2: the floor so if she fell off it wasn't going
13:16
Speaker 2: to be such a big shock to her. Teaching her
13:19
Speaker 2: to climb down the stairs backwards. All of those things
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Speaker 2: were providing an opportunity for her to have appropriate levels
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Speaker 2: of risk.
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Speaker 1: And that's a critical thing developmentally appropriate. So going to
13:30
Speaker 1: school is a developmentally appropriate thing. Doing exams is a
13:33
Speaker 1: developmentally appropriate thing. Going bouldering as a two year old
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Speaker 1: or going surfing as a three year old probably not
13:40
Speaker 1: developmentally appropriate, But by the time the kids are seven
13:43
Speaker 1: or nine or eleven much more developmentally appropriate. We've just
13:46
Speaker 1: got to make sure that the setting is right. Too
13:48
Speaker 1: much too sooner, and it can really crush their confidence
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Speaker 1: and make them more afraid.
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Speaker 2: Number four is really about developing a village, utilizing what's
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Speaker 2: in your village to help you children take appropriate risks.
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Speaker 2: If your child wants to do bouldering and you don't
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Speaker 2: know anything about it, then find somebody else who does
14:08
Speaker 2: and allow them to work through that and help to
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Speaker 2: educate both of you so that they can take risks
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Speaker 2: that you feel comfortable with.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, Or if you go back to an academic setting
14:17
Speaker 1: and you've got a child in your five who doesn't
14:19
Speaker 1: understand maths and you don't understand your five maths either,
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Speaker 1: which is most of us, Let's be honest, go and
14:23
Speaker 1: get a math tutor, or hire a year eight kid
14:27
Speaker 1: who's happy to work for fifteen bucks an hour to
14:29
Speaker 1: do the tutoring. If you can't afford a full price
14:32
Speaker 1: math tutor, find somebody who can be that external support,
14:34
Speaker 1: because it's not going to be you, because you're not
14:37
Speaker 1: feeling competent either.
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Speaker 2: And I think the great thing about this one is
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Speaker 2: just acknowledging that we're not saying that your kids have
14:42
Speaker 2: to suffer ongoingly. It's important for our kids to recognize
14:46
Speaker 2: failure as an opportunity for growth. But if we allow
14:49
Speaker 2: them to stay in that place for too long, they
14:51
Speaker 2: get discouraged and they're less likely to move on.
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Speaker 1: Okay, The fifth thing is that we need to recognize
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Speaker 1: the difference between harmful trauma and beneficial stress. All stresses problematic.
15:01
Speaker 1: Something that I've been talking about in my seminars for
15:03
Speaker 1: years is in Biosphere too. This was a science experiment
15:06
Speaker 1: where an entire habitat was built under a dome to
15:10
Speaker 1: do science basically in case of space exploration. The trees
15:13
Speaker 1: who were planted under this dome in Biosphere two shot
15:15
Speaker 1: up really tall, really fast, and they looked like they
15:17
Speaker 1: were better trees than nature ever provides. They were just pure, perfect,
15:21
Speaker 1: lovely tall pines or whatever it was. But all of
15:23
Speaker 1: a sudden they started falling over. And the reason they
15:25
Speaker 1: fell over is because they hadn't dug down deep roots
15:27
Speaker 1: and they hadn't created what's called stress would because they
15:30
Speaker 1: didn't have any wind. In Biosphere too, it was a
15:32
Speaker 1: completely still environment. There was no wind because there was
15:35
Speaker 1: this great big dome preventing the wind from getting in.
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Speaker 1: Beneficial stress is the wind. Beneficial stress is the rain.
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Speaker 1: Beneficial stress is the stuff that happens in our lives
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Speaker 1: normally half of trauma, that stuff like abuse, that stuff
15:48
Speaker 1: like neglect, that stuff like alcoholism and drug use in
15:51
Speaker 1: the home, it's being exposed to explicit content. It's the
15:55
Speaker 1: kinds of things that kids are not that are just
15:57
Speaker 1: not kid friendly and not appropriate for kids. Bosed to bullying,
16:01
Speaker 1: and being a victim of bullying. If we can help
16:03
Speaker 1: our children to understand the difference. We're not going to
16:05
Speaker 1: say tough enough, princess, when they're experiencing something that is
16:08
Speaker 1: genuinely traumatic. Instead, we're going to give them support that
16:11
Speaker 1: they need. If they're experiencing beneficial stress, we're still not
16:14
Speaker 1: going to say tough enough, princess, but we might say
16:17
Speaker 1: this is really tough, let's figure out a way through it,
16:19
Speaker 1: because I think you're strong enough to try this again.
16:22
Speaker 1: Get back out on the eyes, let's go. Number six,
16:25
Speaker 1: we want to foster positive coping mechanisms when our children
16:28
Speaker 1: are going through challenges that are appropriate. In other words,
16:31
Speaker 1: this is about sitting down with the kids and saying,
16:34
Speaker 1: when you're under this stress or when this thing goes wrong,
16:37
Speaker 1: let's find some solutions for you. Sometimes you do it
16:39
Speaker 1: in the moment. Often you'll do it the next day
16:41
Speaker 1: or even the day after, when the kids have had
16:43
Speaker 1: time to process it and they're not feeling defensive about it.
16:46
Speaker 1: And number seven, the last one is that we need
16:48
Speaker 1: to just make it say for our kids to have
16:50
Speaker 1: those difficult processing moments with us or with their significant
16:54
Speaker 1: mentor or teacher, whoever, it is. That's kind of been
16:57
Speaker 1: implicit through everything we've talked about, So I won't the
17:00
Speaker 1: point our kids need to be doing hard things even
17:03
Speaker 1: if it could land them in hospital.
17:05
Speaker 2: Well, I'm hopeful that no one's going to end up
17:07
Speaker 2: in hospital today.
17:08
Speaker 1: I'm not encouraging hospital visits. I just I feel like
17:11
Speaker 1: I need to put a big caveat a big neon lights.
17:13
Speaker 1: The reality is life is dangerous.
17:17
Speaker 2: But I hope your kids get to climb a tree today.
17:19
Speaker 1: Or ride a horse, or go surfing or a right skateboard,
17:22
Speaker 1: or just do something up and sit on the carpet
17:23
Speaker 1: and play a video game. That's really what we're getting at.
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Speaker 1: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rouland from
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Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Hey, we'd love it. If you're enjoying the podcast,
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Speaker 1: can you leave us a rating and review wherever you're listening?
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Speaker 1: Five star ratings and reviews make a big difference for
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Speaker 1: helping other people to know that the pod is happening
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Speaker 1: and make a difference in their lives. If you would
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Speaker 1: like more information and resources to make your family happier,
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Speaker 1: visit us at Happy families dot com dot a