Latest / StartUp Health NOW Podcast / Imaginostics Is Imagining Brand New Innovative, Non-Invasive Diagnostic Solutions for Health & Disease

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Imaginostics Is Imagining Brand New Innovative, Non-Invasive Diagnostic Solutions for Health & Disease · StartUp Health NOW Podcast

• 0:01
  What if, instead of getting an MRI to know what problems or diseases currently exist in our bodies, the same scan could be used to predict future problems and help you prevent them altogether?
• 0:12
  That's the heart and soul behind Imaginostics, a startup led by today's guest, Cody Garguslu.
• 0:19
  I'm Logan Plaster, and this is "Startup Health Now," where we bring you interviews with the most forward-thinking and interesting founders in healthcare today.
• 0:27
  On today's episode, I'll be handing the microphone off to Unity Stokes, Startup Health's co-founder, for an interview he recorded during JPM Week in San Francisco.
• 0:36
  In the interview, we're gonna go into the science behind Cody's work and what makes it truly unique. We can do something you could never do before.
• 0:44
  You could never before, at the individual level, measure the vascular density, function, or leakage. It just wasn't possible.
• 0:51
  We'll also back up and get to know Cody's founder story and how he went from a young troublemaker to a PhD physicist. You know, I had been actually kicked out of school.
• 1:01
  You know, I was up to no good, making trouble in the neighborhood. And so, uh, you know, sitting around with the usual suspects, uh, saying, you know, "What are we gonna do when we grow up?"
• 1:10
  And I, uh, said, "You know, I'm gonna be- become a nuclear physicist." One guy looks at me, and he says, "Yeah, man, you gotta do that." Mm-hmm. And I thought, "Oh, shit."
• 1:19
  Even if, like me, you're not fully up to speed on cellular physics, you can appreciate Cody's passion and the journey that he's on to bring in brand-new technology to bear for preventative health.
• 1:30
  This is a soul-level passion for Cody, and you can hear that throughout the interview.
• 1:35
  Imaginostics has raised five million dollars and received a breakthrough designation from the FDA, so while they're early in the game, they're also gaining exciting momentum.
• 1:44
  So this conversation comes at a very interesting time in their story. I hope you enjoy. [upbeat music] This is Unity Stokes from Startup Health, and I am here with the amazing Cody Garguslu. Welcome, Cody. How are you?
• 2:01
  Good. Yeah, absolutely, Unity. It's a pleasure to be here. So Cody is a health transformer,
• 2:07
  uh, in Startup Health, the founder and CEO of Imaginostics, uh, a company I am really, really excited about, part of our Alzheimer's moonshot and several of our health moonshots at Startup Health.
• 2:22
  And, um, maybe that's a good place to start, Cody, because I do wanna get into you and your background and how you, you kind of invented this technology.
• 2:32
  But let's start with your mission, and tell us all about Imaginostics and, and what, what it is, what your, your vision is. Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:43
  You know, this, uh, this company really couldn't have been, uh, wouldn't have been founded without my co-founder and my wife, uh, Valerie, uh, Garguslu. Another amazing health transformer. Absolutely.
• 2:55
  So she's my, uh, other half who completes me. And so, uh, I bring the science, and she brings everything else. [laughs] So y- so you're a PhD. You actually invented...
• 3:07
  Well, first, I wanna hear in, you know, a sentence or two, what, what it is, but then I also wanna hear about how you, you created the, the science behind it, 'cause it's really quite extraordinary. Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:21
  Um, you know, I have a background in, uh... Well, I've got two bachelor's. [clears throat] I've got two bachelor's, a master's, a PhD, and a, a postdoctoral, uh, fellowship under the belt.
• 3:32
  Um, but before I started my PhD, um, I've always been interested in the physics of things very small, very tiny. Um, and so I've been interested in the atomic level detail of things.
• 3:44
  In, in engineering school, I got very bored later on when everything became empirical, uh, for fluid dynamics and so on. So, um, yeah, I started, uh, um,
• 3:56
  thinking about how I could contribute to the world to help people, uh, with physics. Uh, I found imaging to be a good spot.
• 4:02
  I tried out particle physics and decided that that lifestyle behind the computer wasn't for me, and, um, I didn't feel like I could contribute on a personal level, uh, as much as I wanted.
• 4:12
  Um, and, you know, I did a master's in biophotonics, and this was very exciting. Uh, lots of things going on with, uh, imaging with light, uh, but it doesn't really penetrate into the human body.
• 4:22
  You can't really do medical-type imaging of living organisms. Uh, didn't feel like it was gonna be where I could contribute, uh, well enough either. And so my interests, uh, moved to medical imaging.
• 4:35
  And so, you know, I joined a nanomedicine laboratory. Uh, at the time, I thought nanomedicine was gonna be the cure to cancer. Was this at Harvard or in Boston or where was this? Yeah.
• 4:45
  I found a, a program, uh, in nanomedicine at Northeastern University in Boston. Okay.
• 4:50
  And, um, you know, I even started cooking some nanoparticles there in the kitchen and d- made sure I stayed away from chemistry after that. [laughs] That lifestyle wasn't for me either.
• 5:01
  Um, you know, and I, I really looked at the field of imaging. I thought about all the modalities that are there, you know, MRI, SPECT, CT, PET, uh, ultrasound.
• 5:12
  And amongst them, MRI stands out as really the most excellent modality, uh, for imaging the tissue in the body. But the drawback to MRI is this qualitative signal.
• 5:24
  And so we get all these beautiful images, and you would think we can just see disease in the body, uh, but really doesn't go beyond what the radius o- radiologist's eyeball can pick up.
• 5:34
  And so that was my thesis starting out, you know: How do we overcome that limited, uh, medical imaging, the thing that limits it, which is really the qualitative signal?
• 5:43
  So this is going all the way back into, like, 2011, uh, to 2018 when you finally launched Imaginostics? Yeah. So, uh, my son, uh, Noah, was born September 26, 2011.
• 5:59
  I started my PhD October 1st. Showed up a month late for that.Um, and I just sat down and read papers twelve hours a day, uh, you know, uh, for, uh, as long as it took to come up with an idea.
• 6:13
  And, uh, from September to about, uh, December, January, I started with that idea and, uh, it turned out real well. Continued with it and still doing it today, so. So, so take us-- Let's, l-you know,
• 6:29
  speak to me as though the reality, which is I know nothing. Like w-MRIs, I understand that, but how are you changing the game with MRIs?
• 6:39
  'Cause I, I, I know it's pretty extraordinary in terms of, uh, taking it, taking MRIs to the next level, uh, with your science. Um, how does that change the world?
• 6:50
  What's, what's gonna happen because of this innovation you've created? Yeah. So it really enables for the first time a look at the internal physiology.
• 7:00
  So we move beyond these black and white images of the anatomical, and we start to measure, uh, what's going on in there, uh, getting information which really describes at a cellular level the microenvironment.
• 7:13
  So, so, um, a clinician can do what now? Uh, drug developers can do what now? Yeah.
• 7:23
  So now we can make these absolutely outstanding maps of the vasculature beyond what you could do with the toxic metal, uh, gadolinium as a contrast agent.
• 7:33
  And then these higher resolution, sharper images of the blood vessels are incredible.
• 7:39
  But also in those, uh, microvascular filled areas where we don't have the resolution to see those blood vessels, we can still quantify in that volume.
• 7:49
  You know, is it three percent vascularized, four percent, five percent? Can really start to quantify details about that cellular environment. And then we can also look at the modulation of those, uh, small vessels.
• 8:00
  You know?
• 8:00
  Look at the vasodilatory function, that's very indicative of health and disease, and also for the first time measure, again, at the individual level, uh, leakage, uh, of the, of, for example, the blood-brain barrier.
• 8:13
  Very important. And, um, this is, this is really quite interesting because I, I feel like we're, we're at this moment where, uh, several different layers of innovation are, are happening, um, at the same time.
• 8:30
  And it, so it seems like you're, you're bringing this inno-innovation to the world, um, at the same time that AI has a new, uh, life force to it.
• 8:40
  Um, the, the whole really realm of what's now becoming possible, um, in medicine is, is advancing very, very rapidly.
• 8:51
  Um, bring us to, um, what's next, where you're going, um, what you need to, to bring this extraordinary science to the next phase of, of, um, really progress, uh, where, where clinicians, drug developers, others, um, will be using it in a way that, that envisions your dream.
• 9:17
  Yeah. I mean, I'm really grateful for the, for the wave of AI. Um, it really opens up, uh, our technology to, uh, wonderful possibilities as it does many technologies.
• 9:26
  Uh, the convergence of AI with, with our technology, um, can be described as, for example, well, we get a hundred X better data. So now anything that people are doing- A hundred a- a hundred X?
• 9:39
  Yeah, compared to non-contrast MRI, a hundred X, and then compared to contrast with gadolinium, ten X, and that's as judged by radiologists.
• 9:48
  Um, but really it's hard to quantify because we can do something you could never do before. You could never before at the individual level measure the vascular density, function or leakage. It just wasn't possible.
• 10:01
  And so we can do that analytically. We can see that in a map, for example, uh, overlaying the anatomical vessels in the brain. We can go ahead and overlay these, uh, biomarker maps.
• 10:13
  Um, and because now contained within our data are those physiological measurements, yeah, uh, it's a data-driven technology that can be applied to many different fields.
• 10:25
  Uh, and in particular, I focused in neurology in my research.
• 10:28
  Uh, but also we recently got the breakthrough designation, uh, to replace gadolinium and iodine imaging because it's safer, and those patients are contraindicated actually to both gadolinium and iodine.
• 10:41
  And you've taken this, um... Ex-explain how, um, far along you are, like with the FDA and, and things like that at this point. Yeah. So we are about a year away from submitting an NDA. So it's a combination product.
• 10:56
  Uh, the innovation is in quantum physics, and that's implemented, implemented as a software on the scanner that controls it and changes how it acquires data, um, and also generating images and then a new contrast agent.
• 11:11
  And then this contrast agent was actually originally approved for iron deficiency anemia, so it's an intrav-intravascular, uh, anemia drug. So it's an intravascular, uh, what do you call it? Iron supplement.
• 11:23
  It's very nice, uh, healthy for you. [upbeat music] Hey, a quick plug about StartUp Health before we get to the second half of this interview.
• 11:32
  Uh, we have been organizing mission-aligned networks called Health Moonshot Communities in order to level up the world's most ambitious healthcare entrepreneurs.
• 11:41
  We've been doing this work since twenty eleven and have helped more than five hundred companies from more than thirty countries.
• 11:48
  Membership in StartUp Health is open exclusively to founders and CEOs in health tech, biotech, and life sciences who are dedicated to solving the biggest health challenges of our time.
• 11:59
  You can learn more about the benefits of membership, and you can read hundreds of success stories, member testimonials, all at startuphealth.com.So, um,
• 12:13
  you're located, I think, in a really extraordinary place I wanted you to share with the audience. So you're, you're actually down in Florida now. I know you started in, in Boston, um, and you...
• 12:26
  I'm not sure exactly when you moved, but I know you're down in the, the GuideWell Innovation Community down in Lake Nona. Will you, will you just tell us a little bit about that and what the environment's like? Yeah.
• 12:38
  I mean, they call it the Medical City of the Future. Um- And this is in l- in Lake Nona. Lake Nona, Orlando. Orlando. Yeah. That's right. Um, it's a beautiful place.
• 12:49
  I think, uh, 10, 15 years ago it was cow pastures, and now they've just built it. You know, if you build it, they will come. Um, so, you know, there is, uh, quite a bit of medical innovation there.
• 13:01
  Uh, they have a new VA, a new children's hospital. Um, in particular, uh, they have the headquarters of Fountain Life, which I think is really, uh, in terms of, uh, preventative diagnostics, uh, really a leader.
• 13:16
  And, you know, our mission is to move from, uh, curative to preventative care, and so that's a part of what brought us down there, was really the, um...
• 13:25
  You know, I actually had a conversation, uh, with, uh, the CEO of Fountain Life after reading the book Life Force. And, um, I said, "Hey, look, this is really incredible what you guys are doing.
• 13:35
  You know, you're doing the full body MR, you're doing the low dose CT, doing all this blood work and so on, and you're looking for these diseases early.
• 13:42
  But you know these MR images really aren't delivering much preventative diagnostic information." He says, "I know. I know. So, you know, we are going through the FDA.
• 13:51
  We are, um, aiming to get approved so that we can market this thing. And yeah, we wanna serve, uh, people who have a like-minded mission."
• 13:58
  And I know, I know later this year you're gonna be at the Lake Nona Impact Forum with us at StartUp Health, and, uh, something we love going to every year.
• 14:07
  Um, tell me about the, the day-to-day, uh, down in the Medical City of the Future there. Are there other entrepreneurs and innovators that you're bumping into? Um, other scientists?
• 14:20
  Uh, I know there's, there's GuideWell and, and others there, KPMG and other companies there, but, um, are you a, a pioneer there? Do you hope other, other health transformers, uh, kind of make their way there?
• 14:36
  What's, what's kind of the hope in terms of the culture and, and community, uh, forming down there? Yeah. The, there, there is, uh, there are some companies there.
• 14:45
  At the GuideWell, you know, just upstairs they've got, um, you know, kind of an, an incubator of sorts for, um, you know, many, uh, interesting companies that are coming along.
• 14:55
  Um, there, there aren't, you know, nearly as many as some of the scenes that I've been in. You know, out of Boston, um, thousands of companies, right? Just everywhere you look.
• 15:04
  Um, I, I think it's really still, uh, more, uh, you know, uh, room for, uh, growth, uh, in that area. Um, I, I do feel like we're among the pioneers that are there, and we really stand out, which, which isn't so bad.
• 15:18
  And it's, you know, really a lovely place to live. Um, it has a lot of opportunity there. Um, and so yeah, very happy to be there. Yeah.
• 15:27
  I, I love to learn about these things because as you know, um, community, I think, is so important just in general.
• 15:35
  That's one of the things that, uh, we focus on obviously at StartUp Health and building these Health Moonshot Communities and, and why we're so, uh, grateful to have extraordinary, uh, health transformers like you and, and Valerie because, uh, uh, community's really about people and, and sometimes that's in a particular place, uh, like w- your, your new home in, in Lake Nona, but it can also be, um, more broadly.
• 16:05
  Uh, so many things are distributed now. They're all over. So I wonder if you might, um,
• 16:10
  maybe share, um, why you were attracted to becoming part of StartUp Health and our Health Moonshots, um, as an entrepreneur, as a scientist, as someone focused on, um, these, these big ideas around health innovation.
• 16:29
  Yeah. I mean, I think StartUp Health is actually a really, uh, unique organization in the quality of the companies that are involved, in the quality of the science.
• 16:38
  Um, one of our investors is the Alzheimer's Drug Discovery Foundation, which I think is uniquely poised, uh, to really, um, advance, uh, you know, both diagnostics and therapeutics in Alzheimer's disease and, you know, they're, they're one of your, uh, sponsored companies.
• 16:55
  And so, you know, I think that's one of the things that, um, attracted me for sure.
• 17:00
  Um, and really, you know, just looking around at the quality of the companies that are involved and the community there, um, I'm really blown away.
• 17:07
  Uh, and so, uh, as a scientist from, you know, Harvard Medical School, one of the leading institutions, uh, you know, I've got a pretty good nose for these things, and I really can say that this is really the cutting edge, uh, science, um, and really, uh, amazing companies that are involved in, um...
• 17:24
  And so that, that's really what attracted us. It, it really is about, um, the people and, and, you know, our view is, um, you know, it gets, it gets to be really exciting on...
• 17:36
  at an exponential level when you just a- align, you know, purpose-driven people. And way back at the beginning of this conversation, you talked about you really wanted to focus on meaningful innovation.
• 17:49
  Um, what's your origin story? What's, what's, um... How did you get started? Uh, even what, what kind of guided you?
• 17:59
  I know you started to talk a little bit about this at, uh, you know, what drove you to become a scientist, but, um, what drove you from a very young age? Gosh.
• 18:09
  Um, yeah, I think, uh, you know, I remember being 15 years oldAnd, um, sitting around talking with, uh, some friends, uh, you know, I had been actually kicked out of school.
• 18:21
  You know, they had the pleasure of kicking me out, and, uh, you know, I was up to no good, making trouble in the neighborhood.
• 18:27
  And so, uh, you know, sitting around with the usual suspects, uh, saying, you know, "What are we gonna do when we grow up," right? And I, uh, said, "You know, I'm gonna become a nuclear physicist." It just came out.
• 18:38
  This is what I wanted to do, just natural. I wanted to be a nuclear physicist. And one guy looks at me and he says, "Yeah, man, you gotta do that." Mm-hmm. And I thought, "Oh, shit."
• 18:47
  And so, I mean, I think that's really when I woke up and when I really did start to, you know, interrogate, uh, within myself, um, kinda g- you know, got out of that group of friends, which was really getting me in trouble, um, [chuckles] got back into school.
• 19:01
  I started going to summer classes at the local university, uh, really put my foot on the accelerator, and, um, been with the heavy foot on the accelerator ever since then.
• 19:11
  And, you know, when I was about 19, I came to the question of, you know, does God exist?
• 19:18
  And as a person that loves physics, uh, it was very natural to me that, you know, uh, everybody believes there's a big bang, and I think it's natural to see that there must be a big banger.
• 19:30
  And, um, I think, I think helping people and serving people, uh, and loving people, and, uh, it's really just woven into the fabric of the universe.
• 19:39
  And so I've had the pleasure of, um, attempting to do that and pursuing that vigorously, uh, with, as well, the vocation that, uh, interests me the most, so I'm very blessed in that way. It's quite extraordinary.
• 19:52
  I, I always, um, think there's just s- so much, uh, crossover between science and, and spirituality and, and religion, and, and there's, there's a lot more connections, I think, than oftentimes, uh, uh, many people talk about.
• 20:09
  But, uh, that's really quite fascinating. And you're now... You're a doctorpreneur, what- one, uh, what we love to call doctorpreneur.
• 20:17
  You're, you're a scientist, you're an inventor, you're an innovator, but you're also now a founder, a CEO. Um, what's that journey like? Yeah, I mean, for me, it's really, um, it, it's really incredible. And, um, when...
• 20:34
  You know, g- getting ac- out of academia for me wasn't necessarily straightforward.
• 20:39
  Um, I think the culture has shifted, but, you know, when you're a postdoc, uh, in Harvard Medical School, when you're, you know, in these very strong academic organizations, um, it's almost frowned upon.
• 20:49
  You know, it's like going into industry. Uh, however, you know, at the same time, I was looking at what I was doing. I was looking at the impact. I mean, I had published lots of papers. We had done things in Alzheimer's.
• 20:59
  We had done things in head injury. We had done things in cancer. Uh, but, you know, how are we gonna get this technology out of the lab and into people's lives?
• 21:11
  And so I just sort of had to take, uh, really the next step, and again, uh, would have never done that without the support and encouragement of my wife, who, uh, was also an entrepreneur in the legal field and had started her own firm.
• 21:23
  And, uh, in Boston, we have the Cambridge Innovation Center, and there's all kinds of entrepreneurs in there.
• 21:30
  And so, you know, you look around at all these founders and what they're doing and their startups, and you get encouraged, and you think, "Yeah, yeah, maybe I can do this."
• 21:38
  Well, the, uh, I love you sharing that wisdom because I think there's, there's so many folks, um, that are clinicians, maybe working in a hospital, scientists working in a lab, uh, academics working in academia, and I think there really is this magic that happens when you bridge those worlds and, and we take some of these extraordinary ideas or innovations and, and bring them closer to the real world.
• 22:05
  So thank you for, for doing that with what you're doing. Um, let's get back to, um, what, what you need.
• 22:14
  Like, if you were to wave a magic wand to kinda take Imaginosics to the, the next level as, as an entrepreneur, you've got the science, you've got the innovation, you've got this extraordinary technology. Um,
• 22:29
  what, what are the two or three things that really move the dial at this point? Are there... Is it capital? Is it the right types of partners? What, what, what drives you forward now?
• 22:39
  Yeah, I mean, and, and we were blessed. Uh, last year, we raised $5 million.
• 22:43
  Um, uh, we, uh, our original angel investor, one of the four, um, you know, joined the company and, and was able to raise that round for us, and so, you know, we got a little bit of gas in the engine thanks to that.
• 22:55
  Um, and, and also, we got the breakthrough designation at the FDA just in October. Um, so that enables us to really talk with the FDA to see how we're gonna bring a product to market, uh, makes things a lot clearer.
• 23:08
  Um, yeah, we do need more capital to be successful, um, and then also, we do need strategic partnerships.
• 23:15
  I mean, our go-to-market product is focused around, uh, serving people with kidney disease, uh, you know, replacing gadolinium and iodine imaging for them.
• 23:24
  Uh, there's about two million scans a year where people do get those life-saving medical images, and then they usually get dialysis afterwards because they are strictly contraindicated to the agents, but they get it anyway.
• 23:36
  So our product is a combination product. It's a software that goes on the scanner, and it's the, the drug, the intravenous iron supplement.
• 23:44
  Uh, but even after we get FDA approval, I mean, how are we gonna sell this thing? Mm-hmm. Right?
• 23:49
  How are you gonna distribute a drug to, you know, health systems and to, you know, so many different hospitals and the people that need it?
• 23:56
  Um, so we really are looking for a strategic partner that already has those channels developed, and, um, and that's absolutely critical for us, and so we're focused on that, yeah.
• 24:05
  Well, I know there's a lot of those folks listening here, so, um, what's the best way to get in touch with you, Cody? Yeah, cody@imaginosics.com.
• 24:13
  You can, uh, you know, email me there is a, a good way, valerie@imaginosics.com. And it's Cody- Send a messageCodi with an I. C-O-D-I. Okay. And we'll make sure that's all in the show notes.
• 24:25
  And, um, let's shift gears just for a minute. I'd love to hear your perspective on kinda the, the state of innovation in health and healthcare more broadly. Um, you know, we're entering twenty twenty-five.
• 24:39
  We're at the amazing J.P. Morgan Healthcare Conference here in San Francisco. There's a lot of activity.
• 24:45
  You've probably s- talked to hundreds of, uh, extraordinary people over the past couple of days, but what's your take on the moment we're, we're living in, where things are going? How do you, how do you feel?
• 24:58
  I feel like, uh, it really is, uh, the perfect convergence. Um, and I see the need for our technology.
• 25:04
  Um, because, for example, one of the things I'm passionate about is longevity and longevity drugs, um, and there's a l- you know, there...
• 25:11
  But, you know, for example, in the field of longevity, uh, you're gonna try to reverse aging. And but what's your endpoint for that? You know? What are, what are you gonna do to show that your drug is working?
• 25:22
  Um, and this has really been, uh, something that has been a critical failure point for a lot of companies. Uh, the, the clinical trials are very expensive. You can barely make it.
• 25:32
  Um, one of my favorite types of therapies is cell therapy, all right? Especially from the placenta because there's, uh, living medicine in there, and it's just getting thrown out.
• 25:41
  Um, so one of my favorite companies is Celularity. But you look at the stock price of that company, and it tanked. And, and that was because you gotta be able to show in a dose-dependent way, what is your drug doing?
• 25:53
  You got one cell, what's your output? Um, and so the vasculature, quantifying the vascular physiology.
• 25:59
  I mean, if you can have the healthy vascular, you know, brain [chuckles] of a, of a twenty-year-old, uh, when you're sixty or seventy, I mean, that's it for you, right? I mean, absolutely one hundred percent.
• 26:12
  Um, so, you know, we have the endpoints that can really accelerate drug development. Um, it can be used in so many different spaces.
• 26:18
  And so, uh, what I see now with the all these amazing upcoming drugs, um, for example, you know, Insilico Medicine is another incredible company. I mean, we're using-- they're using AI to, uh, you know, design drugs.
• 26:33
  Mm-hmm. Um, I don't think there's gonna be a dearth of drugs. Um, and they're modeling the molecular signals, uh, and the cellular environment.
• 26:43
  Um, but at some point you have to test these drugs, and I believe that, uh, precision diagnostic biomarkers, especially imaging, and there's nothing like what we have, are desperately needed to be able to show for the first time at individual level, are these things really working?
• 27:00
  You know, and how are they working? And so the convergence of our technology with AI and the generation of all these new, uh, targets, um, really, I think, bridges the gap between, you know,
• 27:13
  identifying really cool drugs and targets and then getting them out there. Yeah. It's, it's quite extraordinary because we're, we're seeing such leaps and bounds in diagnostics like you're, you're describing.
• 27:25
  Uh, we're seeing extraordinary leaps in the actual drugs that are coming to market. Uh, the GLP-1s, for example, is a, is a whole other layer of, of innovation.
• 27:37
  But I, I, I see this coming down the pipe across, uh, a whole lots of therapeutics coming, uh, into the future.
• 27:45
  And then you start to, uh, think about, um, what you were talking about before in terms of h- the impact that has on healthy lifespan, longevity, um, a whole host of other, um, opportunities to, to make extraordinary progress.
• 28:04
  What's your, um, take a- on, on the concept we describe as health moonshots, big thinking, big, bold, audacious dreams? We tend to think in twenty-five-year time arcs.
• 28:18
  Where do you see things going over, over the next ten years, ten, fifteen years? How fast is this moving? I think it... Uh, you know, Peter Diamandis wrote that book, uh, The Future Is Faster Than You Think, right?
• 28:30
  Um, I think it's true. It's, it's much faster than you think. And, um, you know, NVIDIA coming out with all their faster GPUs, making things accessible, AI is gonna be even more accessible.
• 28:40
  Uh, people showing us that they can model these, uh, these, uh, you know, s- these, these very complex systems. Um, and, you know, and the GPUs are just getting better, so those models are just gonna get better.
• 28:51
  Um, yeah, I think that in ten, fifteen years, we very mal- m- very well may have a drug that, for example, reverses aging.
• 28:59
  You know, and the thinking, the paradigm shift in thinking, uh, has to change, you know, from this single, you know, druggable target.
• 29:06
  Like, for example, in the field of Alzheimer's disease, we have monoclonal antibodies to remove the amyloid plaque. Great.
• 29:13
  Well, you're gonna reverse, uh, you're gonna slow down the rate of cognitive impairment, uh, by as much as, let's say, thirty percent, but you're, you're not going backwards. You're not reversing it.
• 29:24
  Um, I really believe that the drugs that, for example, cure Alzheimer's will probably be good for everybody, right? Mm-hmm. And it's really gonna improve the, the health more generally.
• 29:35
  And, um, and so, yeah, I'm very optimistic with the, with some of these, you know, some of the David Sinclair work, for example, another one of my favorite, uh, out there.
• 29:44
  Um, I'm very optimistic that we could have some age-reversing therapies, uh, in ten to fifteen years.
• 29:49
  And so, you know, I think, uh, the best thing we can do is stay as healthy as possible, uh, hold on, invest in the right spaces, and, um, and I, I, I think, I think we'll get there to a healthier, longer, uh, health span.
• 30:03
  Wha- what do you wish more people, uh, knew today about Imaginostics? That we can help. [chuckles] I mean, we can help in so many ways, right? So, you know, uh, it's, uh, really incredible.
• 30:18
  I mean, you're talking about interrogating the human body with a hundred times more precision, for example, than, than, um, you know, what, what might be possible now.
• 30:27
  Um, but, you know, our goal is to get to market with a simple productUh, to, uh, make better and safer imaging, uh, for those who need it, uh, generate revenues from that, um, and then continue to invest in these biomarker-driven products, um, and ultimately, as we become, uh, more, uh, known in the community, uh, serve people developing drugs and accelerate that.
• 30:52
  Because diagnostics are great, uh, but the real, uh, impetus is to cure people. Mm-hmm.
• 30:57
  And so, you know, I hope we can move to a preventative healthcare system where you get an MRI scan when you're healthy, and we can identify what's wrong before you could feel it, before the symptoms appear, and then you get the right drug, uh, before you got those symptoms.
• 31:11
  I mean, that's, that's the vision. Do you... So do you envision a day where, um, everyone just gets an MRI in a, in a preventative way rather than, uh, you know, later on in life?
• 31:23
  W- Give me a little, uh, lens into your future as you see it. Could be.
• 31:28
  I mean, in Japan, uh, I think from what I understand at 40 or at, uh, s- at some particular age, you know, preventative, uh, MRIs are, are happening. They're mainstream.
• 31:37
  Uh, we have a very reactive healthcare system, a very dysfunctional healthcare system. Um, and, you know, it's not just MRIs.
• 31:45
  There's a lot of really cool, uh, technologies for measuring, uh, molecular signals in the blood now, um, in the eye. Mm-hmm. Some eye optical imaging technologies.
• 31:55
  Um, some of those could, for example, indicate a disease.
• 31:59
  They say the eye is the window to the brain, and then, um, that's great, and then that might be the impetus to come along and get a more expensive, uh, and cumbersome MRI scan. So we're not competing with any of those.
• 32:12
  Um, I've seen incredible technologies around, for example, uh, menstrual blood or, um, you know, uh, taking the, the measurements from the toilet, um, you know, 'cause there's a lot of, uh, molecular, you know, signals that are being ejected from our body in those ways.
• 32:29
  Um, I think that's really the way of the future, you know? We have to be able to get our hands on that data and diagnose disease as early as possible and treat it as early as possible.
• 32:39
  It's the most cost efficient, and it's the best way for humanity. Totally agree, and I, I see this as also an opportunity to bring business model innovation. Um, you mentioned Japan.
• 32:51
  Um, I know in India, for example, um, you can walk in, and as a consumer, uh, go get an MRI and pay for it out of pocket affordably. Uh, that's just kind of unheard of here, uh, in the United States.
• 33:08
  You normally do it, uh, you know, when your doctor tells you to go do it or it's paid for by your insurance, um, and the price is often completely unknown.
• 33:17
  Uh, so it seems like there, there will be, uh, yes, for MRIs, but many of these types of, uh, tools, technologies, diagnostics, um, a, a new way to, to pay for them, uh, new cost structures, uh, new ways to access them, uh, that I hope one day is more, um, open to, to people everywhere, uh, and affordably so.
• 33:44
  Uh, how do you feel about that, and do you think that's just a pipe dream, or, or do you think we'll be moving in, in that direction? I think that's absolutely, uh, the direction we're moving in.
• 33:54
  I think it's a matter of, you know, uh, where do we get the diagnostic data, um, and those things are becoming more affordable. They're becoming more compact. They're becoming things that you can take to your home.
• 34:06
  Um, I'm constantly learning about new technologies like that, and I'm blown away by it.
• 34:10
  Uh, you know, I think, uh, I think that things are moving much faster than we think, and, um, you know, um, I'm, I'm very excited about the future.
• 34:19
  It's, it's, um, you know, it's constantly [chuckles] every day is another day where it's, where I can say it's, you know, the most, uh, amazing time to be alive in the history of humanity. It really is.
• 34:29
  So what would you tell your 15-year-old self, uh, there, you know, when you were kicked out of school?
• 34:34
  What, what's your best wisdom to your younger self, and also to, um, maybe other, other youth, other innovators that are coming up, other entrepreneurs just getting started?
• 34:47
  Um, couple words of wisdom to share with, with those coming up. You're right. Uh, so I would say, yeah, you're absolutely right. You know, wake up.
• 34:56
  Uh, do all that you can, uh, because your life depends on it, absolutely. Um, you know, from that time, I put my foot on the accelerator, and until today, um, I've been working hard at it. Uh, you know, no regrets.
• 35:11
  Um, even had the pleasure of meeting, uh, my other half. Uh, got three wonderful children.
• 35:17
  Um, and so, you know, uh, I think, uh, I think we really can do, uh, incredible things as we harness, uh, the collaborative spirit of humanity.
• 35:27
  Uh, AI's out there, but we absolutely need, uh, [chuckles] humans to come along and take advantage of that. Actually, it's, it's much easier to learn today, you know? It's much easier to innovate today.
• 35:38
  Uh, I think the innovation, uh, you know, if you had to s- uh, step up on a ladder or climb a tree to get to that low-hanging fruit before, uh, now you just have to reach out your hand. Mm-hmm.
• 35:49
  Um, it's, it's really incredible. Uh, the best teacher, uh, the best teachers are right in front of us. You've got AI. You can ask it... Well, maybe not the best teachers.
• 35:57
  [laughs] Gonna have to train the, the Richard Feynman model or something. But, uh, the point is, is that, you know, it's, it's, it's available, you know? Uh, knowledge is so, uh, much at our fingertips.
• 36:08
  It's really changing the way we learn, and it's accelerating the rate at which we can get there to the new ideas.
• 36:14
  Uh, we can, you know, much quicker ask the right questions, get the right answers, um, and, and then get to the new questions.
• 36:22
  Well, Cody, it's, it's just such a pleasure and honor to, um, one, get to talk t- with you today, but also to get to collaborate and partner and, and be with you and around you and learn from you, so thank you for everything you and Valerie are doing and, and your entire team.
• 36:40
  Um, it's very inspiring. Um, so I see you have a, a, a four-leaf clover on your, your hat. Tell me a little bit about that before we go. Yeah, sure. Absolutely.
• 36:52
  So, um, and, you know, I just wanna say as well that, you know, you're 100% right that it's in community, uh, that we're really gonna be stronger together, and we're gonna get places and, and get these amazing innovations out of our head and into the hospital and into the, you know, humanity's hands.
• 37:08
  So, so happy to be a part of, uh, your organization, Unity. Uh, thanks for being, uh, my new neighbor, my new friend, and, uh, I can't wait to meet, uh, so many more people inside of the community. Already am.
• 37:20
  Get plugged in. Get even more plugged in. We're very fresh, I think a couple weeks or so.
• 37:24
  Um, so the story behind this hat, this is, uh, you know, and it's funny because I've been wearing it around the conference, and, um, you know, many people think it's a, a sports hat. Uh, it's not.
• 37:35
  Uh, but it's the, uh, Tony Robbins hat, the, the black clover. Right, it's the- [laughs] Exactly. Okay. I, I thought that. And so- I just wanted to make sure. It's the, it's the, it's the lucky hat, you know?
• 37:45
  It's, um, it's a reminder, too, that, uh, life, uh, just as in business, it's all a spiritual game, and, um, we're blessed to be here. Uh, we live to serve, and it's more blessed to give than to receive.
• 37:59
  Well, Cody, thank you so much for sharing your time and wisdom and, and everything you do. We're so grateful. Thank you. Thank you. [outro music] Thanks for listening to Starter Health Now.
• 38:12
  We'll be back again with another episode next week. [outro music]