Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Podcast / Dr. Sunil Verma, Chief Medical Officer for Ambulatory at UCI Health

Transcript

Dr. Sunil Verma, Chief Medical Officer for Ambulatory at UCI Health · Becker’s Healthcare Podcast

• 0:02
  The most important health care decisions don't happen
• 0:05
  in isolation.
• 0:06
  They happen when leaders come together.
• 0:08
  Becker's sixteenth annual meeting brings together more than
• 0:11
  3,500
• 0:12
  hospital and health system executives this April in
• 0:15
  Chicago.
• 0:16
  With 800 speakers from Ascension, Cleveland Clinic, CommonSpirit
• 0:20
  and more, the conversations get real. Leaders will
• 0:23
  share how their scenario planning for policy shifts,
• 0:26
  breaking through value based care barriers and building
• 0:28
  clinical teams that translate new ideas into real
• 0:31
  world care.
• 0:32
  Join top decision makers in the room April
• 0:35
  13 through the sixteenth.
• 0:37
  For the agenda and event details, visit beckers
• 0:40
  hospital review dot com and click on the
• 0:42
  events tab in the upper right.
• 0:45
  This is Scott Becker with the Becker's Healthcare
• 0:48
  podcast.
• 0:49
  I'm thrilled today to be joined by a
• 0:51
  brilliant physician leader.
• 0:53
  We're joined today by doctor Sunil Verma. Doctor
• 0:56
  Verma is both a doctor and an MBA.
• 0:59
  He's a leader at the UCI Health System,
• 1:03
  University of California Irvine.
• 1:06
  His titles are many, associate chief medical officer,
• 1:09
  ambulatory.
• 1:11
  He's the health associate
• 1:12
  dean,
• 1:13
  UCI health associate dean,
• 1:15
  UCI School of Medicine professor.
• 1:18
  He by background is an ENT, had a
• 1:20
  neck surgery,
• 1:21
  also a Dartmouth grad.
• 1:23
  Doctor Verma, can you take a second and
• 1:25
  tell us a little bit about yourself
• 1:28
  and about UCI Irvine
• 1:30
  and about your career.
• 1:32
  Thank you, Scott. And it's, thank you so
• 1:34
  much for having me on the podcast.
• 1:36
  So, yeah, as you mentioned, Scott, I'm an
• 1:38
  otolaryngologist,
• 1:39
  and I've been at UCI now for fifteen
• 1:42
  years.
• 1:44
  My entire career has actually been here at
• 1:45
  University of California, Irvine, and I'm really proud
• 1:48
  to be a surgeon administrator.
• 1:50
  I still take care of patients with laryngeal
• 1:52
  disease both in the clinic and the Operating
• 1:54
  Room, and I really do think that makes
• 1:56
  me a better administrator.
• 1:59
  To talk a little bit about my organization,
• 2:01
  UCI Health,
• 2:03
  we're a rapidly growing academic health system, and
• 2:05
  we're part of the University of California.
• 2:08
  We're located in Orange County between Los Angeles
• 2:11
  and San Diego County, and we're currently a
• 2:13
  six and soon to be a seven hospital
• 2:16
  system
• 2:16
  with annual revenues exceeding $5,000,000,000.
• 2:20
  My role is centered in ambulatory, and our
• 2:22
  footprint in ambulatory is extensive
• 2:24
  with more than 1,500,000
• 2:26
  patient visits annually
• 2:27
  across a continually expanding set of service lines.
• 2:31
  Much of my role is focused on ensuring
• 2:33
  access,
• 2:34
  operational excellence,
• 2:36
  and physician alignment as we scale ambulatory and
• 2:39
  our health system.
• 2:41
  Thank you. And and and take a moment.
• 2:44
  You've got this great leadership team there, one
• 2:46
  of the best in the country. We're UCI
• 2:49
  Irvine, UCI Health. I I I constantly wanna
• 2:52
  call it University of California Irvine, and I
• 2:54
  know it's been rebranded years ago to UCI
• 2:57
  Health, and so I'm working at that, but
• 2:59
  a magnificent system with great leadership.
• 3:02
  Talk a little bit about what what are
• 3:03
  some of the key trends you're watching in
• 3:05
  health care currently,
• 3:07
  while you're in a growth mode, which is
• 3:08
  magnificent
• 3:09
  in in a in an industry where not
• 3:11
  everybody's in a growth mode?
• 3:13
  Yeah. I'm really proud to be part of
• 3:14
  this organization, Scott. And as you're sort of
• 3:17
  alluding to, a lot has changed in with
• 3:19
  our organization over the fifteen years that I've
• 3:21
  been here. I do attribute it to our
• 3:23
  amazing executive leadership team who's really had the
• 3:26
  foresight
• 3:27
  to recognize that we had to go from
• 3:30
  a one hospital
• 3:31
  academic medical center
• 3:33
  to a health system.
• 3:34
  So in the last two years, there's an
• 3:36
  acquisition of four community network hospitals.
• 3:39
  In addition to
• 3:41
  breaking ground and finishing
• 3:43
  construction, just last just in December
• 3:46
  2025
• 3:48
  on a separate hospital in Irvine, which is
• 3:50
  another academic hospital.
• 3:51
  In addition to that, we're building and will
• 3:53
  soon finish a rehab hospital in the 2026.
• 3:57
  All of that to say that the health
• 3:59
  system is really involved has really evolved, I
• 4:02
  should say,
• 4:03
  and takes our mission of taking care of
• 4:04
  patients,
• 4:05
  both in academic and community medicine quite seriously.
• 4:10
  It's a really exciting time in in Orange
• 4:12
  County. We have the opportunity to take care
• 4:14
  of a wonderful
• 4:15
  group of patients, and I really do think
• 4:17
  that we're doing a much better job than
• 4:18
  we did when I joined here a decade
• 4:20
  and a half ago.
• 4:22
  Thank you. And talk about
• 4:24
  doctor Verma.
• 4:25
  What are you most focused and excited about
• 4:28
  currently? You've been there for fifteen years.
• 4:30
  It it must some days feel like things
• 4:32
  are
• 4:33
  spinning and whirling, and there's so many things
• 4:35
  going on. How do you keep yourself focused,
• 4:37
  and what are you most focused on and
• 4:39
  excited about for this coming year?
• 4:41
  You know, our our
• 4:43
  primary priority for 2026
• 4:45
  is strategically,
• 4:47
  expanding
• 4:48
  our ambulatory capacity
• 4:49
  through multiple models of care.
• 4:52
  We have a lot of levers, Scott. We
• 4:53
  have our faculty academic practice. We We have
• 4:56
  community physician practices,
• 4:58
  affiliations, and a clinically integrated network that we
• 5:01
  need to figure out the best way to
• 5:02
  deliver care.
• 5:04
  That expansion really is essential to supporting all
• 5:06
  these hospitals I mentioned and their growth.
• 5:09
  Now if we cannot scale our ambulatory capacity
• 5:11
  appropriately,
• 5:12
  you know that our inpatient growth will become
• 5:14
  constrained,
• 5:15
  inefficient, and frankly, more expensive.
• 5:18
  So really what we have designed is an
• 5:20
  ambulatory first approach.
• 5:22
  For us, that really means designing care so
• 5:24
  that the default is high quality
• 5:26
  coordinated care delivered in the ambulatory setting with
• 5:29
  a hospital reserved for patients who truly need
• 5:31
  it.
• 5:32
  But, you know, as we do this, we
• 5:33
  have headwinds that we're facing.
• 5:35
  Right? We have workforce limitations. We have capital
• 5:38
  constraints, and, really, we have rising complexity.
• 5:42
  But we feel that if we can get
• 5:43
  ambulatory first right, we'll be in a really
• 5:45
  great position to continue to grow and, most
• 5:47
  importantly, in a sustainable manner.
• 5:50
  Thank you. And you've spent your entire career
• 5:53
  at UCI Health.
• 5:55
  What brought you there to begin with? What
• 5:56
  what made you decide to get go there
• 5:58
  and to stay there?
• 6:00
  So I'm I'm originally from California.
• 6:02
  As you mentioned, I I went to Dartmouth,
• 6:04
  and then I came for undergrad and then
• 6:06
  came back for medical school and training. And
• 6:08
  I just really enjoy taking care of patients
• 6:10
  in California. So to be honest with you,
• 6:12
  it was a position as a laryngologist
• 6:14
  in the department of otolaryngology
• 6:16
  head and neck surgery that drew me. But
• 6:18
  what drew me to academic medicine was the
• 6:20
  ability to take care of patients,
• 6:22
  educate learners, and also do research,
• 6:25
  which I was very involved in for the
• 6:26
  earlier part of my career.
• 6:28
  Like many physicians, honestly, I saw an opportunity
• 6:31
  in administration
• 6:32
  and felt it would be best augmented with
• 6:34
  an MBA.
• 6:35
  So invested the time into that with the
• 6:37
  support of our health system and then have
• 6:39
  really found progressive roles in the enterprise to
• 6:41
  help direct care and to be a partner
• 6:43
  not only to administrators but physicians.
• 6:46
  Personally, Scott, I think it's really important that
• 6:48
  physicians play a stake, you know, have a
• 6:50
  stake in our growth, in our operational decisions.
• 6:53
  And I found it very enlightening and rewarding
• 6:56
  to work with our amazing
• 6:57
  administrators and physician partners at UCI Health.
• 7:01
  Thank you.
• 7:02
  Really remarkable. You talk about being in California
• 7:04
  and you're in Southern California,
• 7:06
  absolutely beautiful part of the world. Mhmm. You
• 7:08
  know, you're a head and neck surgeon. You're
• 7:10
  an ENT.
• 7:12
  How much time does that leave for surfing
• 7:14
  and wakeboarding, or is that not part of
• 7:16
  the daily regimen?
• 7:18
  You know, what's part of my daily what's
• 7:19
  part of my weekly regimen is tennis a
• 7:22
  couple times a week, ultimate Frisbee with some
• 7:25
  neighbors in the in in our neighborhood,
• 7:27
  and getting outdoors with my kids. Unfortunately,
• 7:30
  there's not as much time at the beach
• 7:32
  as I would like. I tried doing taking
• 7:34
  some lip surfing lessons early on and realized
• 7:36
  I'm not as strong in the ocean as
• 7:37
  I thought I would be.
• 7:39
  It seems like everybody in California, at least
• 7:41
  who's on the coast,
• 7:43
  must try it at some point or another.
• 7:45
  So God bless you for trying.
• 7:47
  Talk about this. You've been a lifelong learner.
• 7:50
  I admire people, went back, did your MBA
• 7:53
  while working. You you you obviously put a
• 7:56
  a big premium on continuing to learn, great
• 7:58
  education,
• 8:00
  Dartmouth and Keck School of Medicine.
• 8:02
  What advice would you give to emerging leaders?
• 8:04
  Aside from maybe partially being a lifelong learner,
• 8:07
  any advice you'd give to emerging leaders?
• 8:10
  I think always listen and see what's going
• 8:12
  on around you. You know, when you're in
• 8:14
  that surgeon's lounge or you're in your faculty
• 8:16
  meeting or you're in the doctor's dining room,
• 8:18
  you're gonna hear the naysayers.
• 8:20
  And I think it's important to not be
• 8:22
  a naysayer, but to listen to the naysayers
• 8:24
  and understand what the problems are.
• 8:27
  Like most things, just like we take care
• 8:28
  of patients with health problems, there's always an
• 8:30
  opportunity to improve things and that we shouldn't
• 8:33
  look at the world as and that the
• 8:34
  outlook is dismal. So, really, I listen to
• 8:37
  the concerns and the complaints people have and
• 8:39
  then try and connect those dots.
• 8:41
  What are the reasons that we're struggling, and
• 8:43
  who do we have to talk to to
• 8:44
  improve things? So I think always keeping an
• 8:46
  open ear and an open mind.
• 8:48
  I do think that as physicians, it's important
• 8:50
  that we always stick to our to our
• 8:52
  core role, which is that to take care
• 8:54
  of patients and to do it in an
• 8:55
  improved manner over time.
• 8:58
  And then finally, yeah, you have to you
• 8:59
  have to if you want to become a
• 9:01
  leader, you have to be able to say
• 9:03
  yes.
• 9:04
  So saying yes sometimes to projects that you're
• 9:06
  not exactly sure where they're gonna go or
• 9:08
  what your role will be is something important
• 9:10
  to do.
• 9:11
  I know I've struggled with and I know
• 9:13
  physician struggle when we don't exactly understand our
• 9:16
  role. So, you know, when I'm in the
• 9:17
  operating room, I know exactly what I'm gonna
• 9:19
  do at what time. That's not the case
• 9:21
  when you're thinking about leadership and administration.
• 9:23
  So So you have to be able to
• 9:25
  pivot at times,
• 9:26
  step in, and understand who the other members
• 9:28
  of your team are.
• 9:30
  And that's not easy necessarily. It's very different
• 9:32
  than the way we're educated as physicians.
• 9:34
  But the more physicians that are involved, the
• 9:36
  more that we can help other people in
• 9:37
  our administration
• 9:39
  make those excellent decisions and continue to improve
• 9:42
  the health of our patients.
• 9:44
  Thank you. No. I I I love that,
• 9:45
  and it's a remarkable leadership career that you're
• 9:48
  having and remarkable physician career as well.
• 9:51
  And I love this concept. One of my
• 9:53
  favorite concepts of don't listen to the naysayers.
• 9:55
  I I love that. I couldn't agree with
• 9:57
  you more.
• 9:59
  Yeah. It's been super helpful for me. I
• 10:01
  think that, you know, there's it's really important
• 10:03
  that we have an open mind, and we
• 10:05
  always want to want to improve things. You
• 10:07
  know what's tough? I I mean, as we
• 10:09
  think about our academic health systems or any
• 10:11
  health system, you know, what I love is
• 10:13
  that we have so many innovative physicians,
• 10:16
  clinicians, and care teams. And, you know, when
• 10:18
  you're working with people, you realize that every
• 10:20
  specialty has a legitimate need, and so many
• 10:23
  initiatives make sense in isolation.
• 10:25
  But the hard thing for a health system
• 10:27
  is really that we have to prioritize.
• 10:29
  We really have to decide when to invest
• 10:31
  and where to slow down as we really
• 10:33
  work to accomplish our goals.
• 10:35
  So that's a challenge, and I don't think
• 10:36
  physicians always understand that we have to make
• 10:39
  deliberate choices.
• 10:40
  We have limited space, workforce, and capital,
• 10:43
  as well as leadership attention.
• 10:45
  So we have to say yes to certain
• 10:47
  projects and sometimes say not yet to others
• 10:49
  so that we can stay aligned with enterprise
• 10:51
  strategy and maintain trust with physicians.
• 10:54
  So as a physician leader, you know, I
• 10:56
  I really take that role very seriously.
• 10:59
  We're very transparent about the trade offs that
• 11:01
  we have to have. We try and be
• 11:03
  as consistent as we can with our decision
• 11:05
  making,
• 11:06
  and we are very clear that sometimes saying
• 11:08
  not yet is okay so that we can
• 11:10
  ensure our long term sustainability.
• 11:13
  But I also have that concept of I
• 11:14
  I mean, you purposely intentionally said not yet,
• 11:17
  not no,
• 11:18
  And and I love that. That that's we're
• 11:20
  we're we'll we'll look at this. We'll think
• 11:22
  about it. We can't do it right now.
• 11:24
  And some of the best talks I've ever
• 11:25
  heard are by people explaining the balancing of
• 11:28
  priorities that they have to do and not
• 11:30
  sugarcoat again. This is the reality of what
• 11:32
  we have to do. You know, I I
• 11:34
  I love that. Yes. Some of it's spinning
• 11:36
  plates, but you you can't say yes to
• 11:38
  everything, but you have to be prepared, Scott.
• 11:41
  I mean, that's the that's the biggest thing.
• 11:42
  We've seen changes in our legislation.
• 11:44
  We We think about ambulatory, and we've seen
• 11:46
  the shifts in telehealth and policies. So you
• 11:49
  have to be prepared. And when an opportunity
• 11:51
  presents itself, you have to be able to
• 11:53
  jump on it. And so that's part of
• 11:55
  the skill set of working with our physician
• 11:57
  and our administrative leaders that exactly that. We're
• 12:00
  not saying no. We're saying not yet. But
• 12:02
  when it's time to pull that trigger, let's
• 12:04
  do it fast and efficiently, and let's be
• 12:06
  prepared.
• 12:07
  We one real great example is just with
• 12:09
  our space and our expansion.
• 12:11
  In Southern California, certain opportunities come come apparent
• 12:14
  with real estate.
• 12:16
  And so you have to be very ready
• 12:17
  to go when the time is right, when
• 12:19
  an opportunity presents itself.
• 12:22
  And so that means that keeping people, you
• 12:24
  know, keeping the fire burning at all times.
• 12:28
  Iruma,
• 12:29
  fantastic to visit with you. What an incredible
• 12:31
  leadership career, and you're just getting started. What
• 12:34
  a pleasure to visit with you. Thank you
• 12:36
  for joining us today on the Becker Healthcare
• 12:38
  podcast, and continue good luck to UCI Health.
• 12:42
  Thank you so much for joining us. Thank
• 12:44
  you for having me, Scott, and thank you
• 12:46
  to to your entire team.