Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Omnibus! The Talons of Weng Chiang (featuring Luke Molloy & Mark Rawlins)

Transcript

Omnibus! The Talons of Weng Chiang (featuring Luke Molloy & Mark Rawlins) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  The. Hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 0:35
  for doing. Quicker, quicker, quicker.
• 0:39
  Hello and welcome to two Watch a hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 0:43
  lost on Gallifrey. So.
• 0:46
  One of your hosts, Mr. Joe Ford from Two Watch who we have Mr.
• 0:52
  Mark Rowland say hello. Hello, and from Lost on
• 0:55
  Gallifrey we have the handsome, charismatic, intelligent and for
• 0:58
  some reason, Moffett lover Mr., Luke Malloy.
• 1:01
  Hello. Hello.
• 1:04
  Sorry, I'm out of breath already.
• 1:06
  How you guys doing? I'm good.
• 1:08
  There's nothing wrong with Moffett.
• 1:09
  Come on. He's the best Doctor Who writer
• 1:11
  there's ever been. Let's not go there, all right?
• 1:14
  Let's not go there. All I'm going to say is this.
• 1:15
  Is that a sign of the Daleks poster?
• 1:17
  No. Like, OK, I'm going to stop.
• 1:19
  We can't think that's Sleeping Dogs.
• 1:22
  Like, come on. So hello boys.
• 1:23
  So we are merging together 3 podcasts in a fabulous threesome
• 1:28
  experience. How are you feeling about that?
• 1:31
  Horny. Horny.
• 1:36
  That looks terrifying. OK, so today we're talking about
• 1:41
  the talons of Wang Chai Ang a not at all contentious 6 part
• 1:46
  story from 70s Doctor Who long considered for some time
• 1:52
  probably the best Doctor Who story ever until it did the
• 1:56
  rounds in Doctor Who magazine with the new hippie Time Team
• 2:00
  that came. In.
• 2:02
  And now it's considered the most offensive piece of art to come
• 2:06
  out of BBC ever. You're false, gentlemen.
• 2:13
  It is one of the best, isn't it? I mean, I'll I'll go straight
• 2:16
  early on. That is when I watched all of
• 2:19
  classic. Doctor Who is one of the best
• 2:21
  stories that there is. Production wise.
• 2:24
  Writing wise, everything is so enjoyable of what do you want My
• 2:30
  thoughts on the contentious side of it straight off?
• 2:32
  The line just cover it now before you can go in.
• 2:34
  That's probably not because. It does come up now, doesn't it?
• 2:37
  If you talk about talents Wing Chang, you have to talk about
• 2:40
  the. I've literally got Brit box up
• 2:42
  and it says contains racial terrorist stereotypes and
• 2:44
  language that may cause offence and violence Oh, and violence.
• 2:48
  Sorry, it's not stereotypes are not going to cause violence, it
• 2:52
  just means violence in it. Although given some how some
• 2:55
  people react, it might create a bit of violence.
• 2:57
  I mean you, you can't deny it like that Warden.
• 3:00
  It is racist. There are bits of it that are
• 3:03
  racist. That's how TV was made at the
• 3:06
  time. It doesn't sour my enjoyment of
• 3:08
  it if it was made. Now, if Lee Hen Lee Sen Chang
• 3:14
  turned up in The Power of the Doctor played played this way,
• 3:19
  then yeah, it might. With Chinese make out.
• 3:22
  Right. It will be offensive, but you
• 3:26
  sort of have to take into consideration that it was made
• 3:29
  in 1976. It's the context, isn't it?
• 3:32
  You have to put it in context. Well, and I think if you are
• 3:35
  going to tar talons with this brush, you have to tar Marco
• 3:39
  Polo with this brush. You have to tar Tomb of the Side
• 3:42
  Men with this brush. There is a lot of classic Doctor
• 3:45
  Who that is problematic. William Hartnell was a openly
• 3:50
  racist person. And.
• 3:52
  If you are willing to sit there and watch William Hartnell
• 3:54
  playing the Doctor, and yet you're not willing to watch
• 3:57
  Talon's Wing Chang, I think there are some double standards
• 4:00
  there. Yeah, definitely.
• 4:02
  I mean, I'm not going to say this one's worse than that one,
• 4:06
  but I mean like evil of the Daleks.
• 4:09
  What's? What's he called in that?
• 4:11
  Yeah, doesn't get a word and then gets.
• 4:14
  His lovely chest out. Oh, he's gorgeous.
• 4:16
  Pointlessly murdered at the end in a horrible seat for.
• 4:19
  You know what, right When we watched that at the BFI and
• 4:22
  Kemal got naked, you know, he comes out and he goes,
• 4:25
  collective sigh amongst everyone in the BFI, Everyone was getting
• 4:29
  very aroused watching that. You.
• 4:33
  You deny that, don't you? No, you are right though.
• 4:35
  There's so much classics of two that is problematic.
• 4:38
  But Talon seems to get the get the the spotlights on it.
• 4:42
  Well, I mean. Certainly pointing at the
• 4:44
  Chinese and saying they are the villains, that's I think that's
• 4:47
  the problem. But is it because it's later on,
• 4:49
  like the 60s, like the Crusades and stuff?
• 4:51
  It's because it's 60s, black and white.
• 4:53
  It seems like an older time, a bit further back when it was
• 4:56
  made and the 70s are a bit near it.
• 4:59
  It's a surprise that even was not a surprise because it was
• 5:02
  the 70s. But I don't know.
• 5:04
  It's more it's more of a modern story compared to those, it
• 5:07
  seems more. All of Classic who is kind of
• 5:09
  loves like they should do, isn't it?
• 5:10
  Well, it should be. Well, yeah, yeah.
• 5:12
  It's I think a body of work together.
• 5:15
  It's not really the Sixties, 70s and the 80s.
• 5:17
  It's all just Classic Who now? But it's also onto the spotlight
• 5:20
  because it's a big story from the big golden era.
• 5:22
  So it gets so people know about it, People here at the top of
• 5:26
  the Poles and stuff like The Crusade is is bad, but it's
• 5:31
  obviously missing. I mean, I don't really, I've
• 5:33
  seen, I think I've seen it once. I don't really know what happens
• 5:35
  in The Crusade. The crusade is bad, I think.
• 5:38
  No, I mean it's bad. It's.
• 5:39
  It's racial. Oh my God, I think it's it's
• 5:42
  another astonishing story. But you've got a man that.
• 5:44
  You've got Bernard, Kate blacked out playing.
• 5:46
  That's more obvious, I think you know.
• 5:47
  Yeah, yeah. Maybe that gets the pass because
• 5:50
  he's not the villain he's portrayed quite sensitively.
• 5:53
  I think he gets the pass because people don't really know or care
• 5:57
  about. I mean that in like the the best
• 5:59
  possible way. Like black and white Who is
• 6:02
  still people who watch classic Doctor Who still sometimes don't
• 6:07
  watch black and white Doctor Who.
• 6:08
  So it's the least sort of covered, isn't it?
• 6:11
  And then when you get to the missing stuff, it's even less
• 6:13
  covered. So stuff like Evil of the Daleks
• 6:16
  and the Crusades, the racial problems in that.
• 6:20
  This story was taken from like Foo Manchu and those kind of
• 6:24
  stories. So there they've got their own,
• 6:27
  you know, that it's that same sort of.
• 6:29
  I'm not sure that makes it right, you know, No, it's taking
• 6:31
  the. They cliche the stereotypes.
• 6:33
  Well, they have. Yeah, well, they have.
• 6:34
  So they've already taken some sort of problematic stuff and
• 6:37
  then put it into they're they're stealing from those things.
• 6:40
  And that was like the 50s. And even then, like the Fu
• 6:43
  Manchu stuff, there were, you know, way back then people were
• 6:46
  saying, you know, this isn't exactly right.
• 6:49
  Yeah, you shouldn't be doing this or it was censored.
• 6:52
  And talons I think was wasn't shown in like Canada, parts of
• 6:56
  Canada and America because at the time when it was sold, they
• 7:00
  said, you know, this isn't, we're not comfortable with
• 7:01
  showing this. So it has, it has that history
• 7:04
  of of having those issues, you know?
• 7:09
  The reaction stuff like this from people that find it
• 7:12
  offensive, I want to talk about very briefly because I was at a
• 7:15
  convention recently where a friend of Oz had a script, a
• 7:20
  copy of Talis Weng Chiang ow, like an original copy of it.
• 7:25
  I can't even know, as it was now the musicians or something like
• 7:27
  that. Anyway, it was lovely and
• 7:29
  yellowed and beautiful. It smelt lovely.
• 7:31
  It smelt the 70s and it had been near Tom Baker at one point as
• 7:34
  well. So I was very excited to pick it
• 7:36
  up anyway. And someone around that table
• 7:38
  went and started pointing at it like that.
• 7:40
  Few G and TS, I think, but it's like pointing at the script and
• 7:43
  going, you know, that's racism on the page there.
• 7:47
  I'll never touch that. I'll never do it.
• 7:49
  I just sat there thinking that's fair enough.
• 7:52
  But he I was being criticized for picking it up and reading
• 7:55
  it. And I think like, fair enough if
• 7:57
  you don't want to watch this because you find it offensive.
• 7:59
  My ex watches with me who was Asian and asked me to turn it
• 8:02
  off for the end of episode one and I turned it off.
• 8:04
  That's fine. Don't tell me I can't watch it
• 8:08
  if I am willing to accept the practice of the time.
• 8:11
  Do not come down on people. And I see this happening with
• 8:14
  like, Gareth Roberts episodes now obviously he's been
• 8:17
  cancelled. Like, people dare to enjoy a
• 8:20
  Gareth Roberts episode. They're tarred with the same
• 8:22
  brush and it's just nonsense. Yeah, it's nonsense.
• 8:25
  Look, it wasn't. I mean, I wasn't there, but it
• 8:27
  wasn't created to be something to go against the Chinese, was
• 8:32
  it? It was created to be a good
• 8:34
  episode of Two. But in doing so, involuntary is
• 8:38
  offensive like. And Ferry.
• 8:41
  And that's everything. In the 70s, there's all the
• 8:44
  comedy shows. Yeah.
• 8:45
  Are you being served? Are you kidding me?
• 8:47
  Yeah, there's it ain't doing favours.
• 8:49
  To the gays isn't. It.
• 8:50
  And if you're not comfortable with those kinds of things,
• 8:52
  yeah, that that's fair enough. But you can't cancel the whole
• 8:55
  of that part of history of television and how they made
• 8:59
  stuff have. You seen you would never
• 9:00
  progress like you can see the progression now and.
• 9:04
  If you recognise it and say, OK, we wouldn't make that now
• 9:06
  there's that Disney film. One of our dinosaurs is missing.
• 9:09
  Have you seen that? That's really, that is exactly,
• 9:13
  exactly. I mean the 70s probably made
• 9:15
  around the same time, exactly the same thing.
• 9:17
  You've got Peter is it Peter Houston off if he's he's dressed
• 9:22
  up as a as a Chinese guy exactly the same as as in Talon's and
• 9:27
  the whole story and he's. Oh, exactly the same to.
• 9:29
  Avengers as well. Yeah, that.
• 9:31
  Do you remember that I being served episode with the Chinese
• 9:33
  man at the beginning Yeah going clinic.
• 9:35
  Card clinic that was. Very, very awesome.
• 9:37
  So it's not, it's not like this was a oh, it was of its time and
• 9:42
  it wasn't that Doctor Who intentionally did that like you
• 9:45
  say it was. It was the norm in television at
• 9:48
  that time and you recognise that.
• 9:50
  And then you look at TV now and you say great, we've made so
• 9:53
  much progress now in TV. Yeah, but in that context, but
• 9:58
  you, I don't think you can be like, oh, we can't watch any of
• 10:00
  that now You got to cancel it. We can't.
• 10:03
  That's all stays in the archive. You can't.
• 10:04
  You just never learn. You just never progressive.
• 10:07
  You can't What? You and I did was Battlefield,
• 10:09
  and look how far representation had come on by.
• 10:11
  Then you had Shao Yonga. It's a big knee.
• 10:13
  If you had Angela Bruce in there, you know, like Classic,
• 10:15
  who made massive strides by the time we got to the end of the
• 10:18
  80s. Can I very briefly put something
• 10:20
  on the table? Because it's something that Luke
• 10:22
  said before we started recording.
• 10:25
  And I went very, very quickly to say John Bennett gives a
• 10:28
  remarkable performance in this story.
• 10:31
  Yeah, there's something in his characterisation in that, yeah,
• 10:36
  he's playing up the sort of Chinese stereotypes when he's on
• 10:39
  the stage and he's saying stuff like first click, very simple
• 10:42
  and all stuff like this. And it's actually written
• 10:44
  because I saw that script, it's written like that.
• 10:46
  But I think Robert Holmes is deliberately playing up those
• 10:48
  sort of Chinese stereotypes because he's doing that
• 10:51
  performance to an English audience.
• 10:53
  Yeah. When he's away from that, when
• 10:56
  he's in the lair of what's his OK name?
• 11:00
  Magnus crew. Thank you very much.
• 11:01
  When he's in the lair of Magnus Scott, he's played a lot more
• 11:04
  sensitively. He's got a lot more depth to
• 11:05
  him. I think there's some kind of
• 11:07
  some deliberate playing on the cliches going on here as well
• 11:11
  and it's a remarkable performance.
• 11:13
  I don't honestly think it's one of the best performances in
• 11:15
  classic Doctor Who. It's just so compelling to
• 11:20
  watch. Well, I'll tell you what, boys,
• 11:22
  Should we go in and watch episode one now?
• 11:23
  Now we've. Covered all all of the awkward.
• 11:25
  Bits. Yeah, it's quite good to get out
• 11:28
  of the way though. Because now we can.
• 11:29
  Now we can enjoy the thing. I feel like I feel like it's it
• 11:33
  is now an elephant in the room with Tales Wenchuang.
• 11:36
  Whenever whenever you talk about it, you have to.
• 11:39
  I mean, it's an interesting thing to bring up because we are
• 11:43
  like having interesting conversations from it and
• 11:45
  learning from it. But also Doctor Who, you just
• 11:48
  want to slap and enjoy it, don't you?
• 11:50
  Well, you do, but then also this.
• 11:52
  Is supposed to be a piece of escapism.
• 11:54
  Just to point out, it's not just in the in the the makeup and if
• 11:57
  there are, you know, a lot of references in the script as well
• 12:01
  that aren't that you wouldn't say now.
• 12:03
  Yeah, I I think there's like. Three different different
• 12:06
  things. Problems like obviously you've
• 12:08
  got the the yellow face and you've got the references in the
• 12:12
  in the script, and you've just got the fact that the Chinese
• 12:14
  are just evil. There's there's no like any sort
• 12:18
  of blurred line that just. But I think that's where.
• 12:20
  That's where. The Fu Manchu stuff.
• 12:21
  Comes from he's in. Chang helps because I think he
• 12:23
  is portrayed not just as a villain.
• 12:26
  He's in. Ultimately, he's duped, isn't
• 12:28
  he? Thinks that Magnus Grill is a
• 12:29
  God and that he's doing God's work.
• 12:32
  I think that's. I feel sorry.
• 12:34
  For him, Yeah. I I I genuinely do feel sorry
• 12:36
  for him. Yeah, I feel sympathy for him at
• 12:38
  the end are. You kidding me?
• 12:39
  Guess his fucking leg chewed off by a rat of.
• 12:41
  Course you feel sorry for. Him, I feel.
• 12:42
  Sorry for anyone. I feel sorry for Liz.
• 12:44
  Trust. If she had her leg chewed off by
• 12:46
  a rat, that's the only circumstance that would happen.
• 12:51
  I'm still here. My camera's just gone down.
• 12:53
  I couldn't. OK, I'll just reset it one SEC.
• 12:58
  Oh yeah, you might have to edit this, but we haven't gone in
• 13:01
  yet, so it's all right. If it does this join.
• 13:07
  We'll just keep going. Yeah, just.
• 13:09
  Keep going because I'm still here, and then we can just do it
• 13:12
  again. We covered all of that.
• 13:13
  Oh, here we go nicely. I couldn't possibly do this
• 13:17
  without looking at your moving face.
• 13:19
  Come along now. She'll be coming.
• 13:23
  There we go, round the mountain. When she comes, she'll be coming
• 13:27
  round the mountain, right? Let's go.
• 13:28
  Let's go. Let's go.
• 13:29
  Sorry, sorry. We're on track.
• 13:31
  All right, there's two of you now.
• 13:32
  I. Need to press?
• 13:34
  Well, no. We've got to count it in, All
• 13:35
  right. People won't know, will they?
• 13:37
  Well, you sit on and you saw it. No.
• 13:38
  No, you. Go.
• 13:39
  No. OK, Luke, you count us in?
• 13:42
  Are we going on one? No, we'll go on five.
• 13:45
  Yeah. Oh yeah.
• 13:46
  No, we. Better.
• 13:47
  Play on one. Yeah. 54 321.
• 13:57
  Are. You watching on Blu-ray?
• 14:01
  No, we're watching on Brit Box with the skip intro option.
• 14:04
  Oh, don't skip the intro. No, I never would.
• 14:06
  I never would. Yeah.
• 14:07
  Do you think the beginning of this heart sequence looks like
• 14:09
  going down someone's gastric track?
• 14:14
  No. Well, if you said.
• 14:18
  Yes, I'd say how do you know? OK, let's talk about Robber home
• 14:23
  straight off the bat. Yeah, sorry, I was sipping
• 14:31
  coffee. Yeah.
• 14:32
  I mean, oh, I mean, I don't, like, absolutely love him, you
• 14:38
  know, like. Oh my God.
• 14:42
  I I think he does some brilliant stories, but then I think he has
• 14:48
  some just average stories as well to be honest, I think.
• 14:51
  OK, if you have to. I mean, what was his first one?
• 14:52
  The Crotons? Yeah, OK, forget that.
• 14:55
  Crayons is a nice piece of Ryan. It's spoiled by those egg boxes.
• 14:58
  Space pirates? No, I'm not big on spearheads.
• 15:02
  That's. Just I.
• 15:04
  Know I know you. Don't like the Space Pirates?
• 15:07
  No. Maybe.
• 15:09
  That was last bread, of course. But like, by the time he gets to
• 15:13
  this, this time where he's Yeah. I'm not big on pyramids.
• 15:18
  I know we can save this for another day.
• 15:20
  Arc and space. Arc and space.
• 15:22
  Brilliant. That's not it.
• 15:25
  Yeah, Good. Solid with the autos.
• 15:28
  Brilliant. Yeah.
• 15:29
  So much better than the Warrior. Time War is great and Time
• 15:33
  Warrior is such a Sunday afternoon with the fire on
• 15:37
  watching. I love it.
• 15:38
  Season 11's like that in general to be.
• 15:40
  Honest. Oh, it's fabulous, isn't it?
• 15:44
  Well, I was just going to say I have a a quote here from Robert
• 15:46
  Holmes himself what you said about this?
• 15:49
  We've dug him up and he's here with us now.
• 15:51
  Go ahead. Robert.
• 15:53
  He says. I think this must be my favorite
• 15:55
  Doctor Who. The story was, of course a
• 15:57
  remake of The Phantom of the Opera, plus a touch of The Foo
• 15:59
  Man Chews and a few bits of my own even.
• 16:02
  That's racist. A touch of the Foo Man.
• 16:03
  Chews. I got This is Robert Holmes's
• 16:06
  words. OK, I'm not a fan of Sherlock
• 16:08
  Holmes, although I've read all the books, but I'm a fan of that
• 16:11
  fictionless Victorian period and I think that's what he sums up
• 16:15
  so well in this Is that that Victoriana he?
• 16:18
  Cherry picks it all, all the. Way.
• 16:20
  Yeah. All the best stuff from all of
• 16:21
  that kind of do you? Know what it reminds me of?
• 16:23
  Do you ever watch The Two Ronnies, the phantom Raspberry
• 16:25
  blower of Old London Town? No, that's before my time.
• 16:28
  I forget how very young the peer of you.
• 16:30
  Are. It is brilliant though, isn't
• 16:35
  it? Like, it really does bring out
• 16:37
  that Victoriana so well. And I I love all stuff set in
• 16:42
  theaters and stuff. Like that, Yeah.
• 16:43
  And because the BBC do that stuff so well, it just works
• 16:47
  perfect, the production value in terms of production.
• 16:49
  On the show. Yeah, didn't Hinge Cliff like
• 16:52
  blow pretty much Season 15's budget on this story.
• 16:56
  Pretty much. And there there is a question
• 16:57
  about that on Twitter, So we'll cover that at the end of the
• 16:59
  episode. All right.
• 17:01
  OK. OK.
• 17:01
  We'll get to that. Well, I was going to say like,
• 17:03
  surely each season have its own. You've finished that budget.
• 17:06
  It doesn't go over to the next year.
• 17:07
  I don't understand that. Well, no, you can't be like
• 17:09
  we've spent all the money he's got.
• 17:11
  Very relaxed. He was like, well, we'll just
• 17:12
  spend a bit of money because I'm off now, I'm off to Target, so.
• 17:15
  Yeah, he definitely spent more than they had because he was
• 17:18
  off. Can we just have a quick moment
• 17:20
  please for Mark, who was to talk about the Terror Nations Army
• 17:22
  video about the locations of Talons Wing Chiang?
• 17:25
  So this is, yeah, this where the TARDIS is landing here.
• 17:28
  I didn't realise. So everyone needs to watch that
• 17:30
  Terror Nation Army video on the locations of of Talons.
• 17:33
  Because I didn't realise until I watched that, that they, this
• 17:35
  opening scene, they filmed on location and then there was a
• 17:38
  problem with it and they had to remount it in the studio.
• 17:41
  So there's this. They were talking about this
• 17:42
  sort of lost footage of this scene on location where it was
• 17:46
  filmed, along that along that sort of whopping stairs down in
• 17:50
  in London. It's an amazing video and they
• 17:53
  work out those those videos are great.
• 17:55
  Anyway, they work out where the originals scene was shot and you
• 17:59
  know, obviously a lot of the stuff as the warehouses and
• 18:02
  stuff around there of like being demolished and things and what
• 18:05
  you can see of it now and stuff like, I love all that kind of
• 18:07
  stuff. But yeah, I didn't realise until
• 18:09
  I watched that that this was done on film originally on On
• 18:12
  Location this. Whole Is the footage still?
• 18:15
  Does it exist anywhere? No, I don't think it.
• 18:17
  Does. If it did, they wouldn't have to
• 18:18
  spend, you know, 500 years investigating the exact.
• 18:22
  Yeah, yeah. But the.
• 18:24
  How these? People.
• 18:25
  Go to this bit where the Doctor and Leader are walking away from
• 18:27
  Silence is the only bit that's left.
• 18:28
  Of that, how late did they find? Because that terror of the
• 18:32
  Zygons, they found like a scene from that, didn't they?
• 18:36
  Yeah, the TARDIS landing like, yeah, yeah, the seconds in
• 18:40
  whoever the editor was. It was a little bit more of the
• 18:42
  Doctor, Sarah and Harry, and we're all there for that.
• 18:44
  It's. Great having these extra little
• 18:46
  glimpses. It really is new classic.
• 18:48
  Stuff. Talk about fucking, stereotypes
• 18:50
  and racism. What about Casey?
• 18:53
  Oh no, Mr. Jiggle, you know. Jesus Christ, no one gives a
• 18:57
  shit about the Irish. Do they I?
• 19:02
  Know. I've only got one thing to say
• 19:05
  to the pair, yeah. Where's more?
• 19:07
  Emma? That's that bloody doll.
• 19:11
  All right. Forget Chucky.
• 19:12
  That doll is the. Most It's damely scarier than
• 19:15
  Chucky. So terrible deep Roy honestly
• 19:18
  fills my nightmares. It's it's horrible.
• 19:21
  I used to really not like it as a kid.
• 19:24
  Yeah, he's really scared. I don't know.
• 19:26
  He he's the only other scariest role that he's done is when he's
• 19:29
  in The X-Files, when he plays like, I don't know if you.
• 19:33
  See it was an episode called bad Law in series 8 and he basically
• 19:37
  and you forgot this but it's true genuine he he's so small we
• 19:41
  can crawl up people's bottoms and in the IT comes out their.
• 19:45
  Mouth. Yeah, yeah, you're.
• 19:49
  Disgusting. Honestly, it's like.
• 19:52
  Some. Yeah, it's not a little.
• 19:54
  Strong like a little squeeze, but what are?
• 19:55
  People about him in this, Yeah, it's the way he's laughing.
• 19:58
  He always goes. It's it's the movement for me.
• 20:01
  It's it's how he moves. It's so creepy.
• 20:04
  But like all of this footage, all of this location footage
• 20:07
  could come out of the 70s movie. That's how strong it is.
• 20:10
  Yeah, it's really. And I mean the outfit.
• 20:12
  They've got new outfits on. I mean, a Tom Baker's outfit's
• 20:17
  so good anyway, and then they give him this.
• 20:20
  Well, they. They said in the special
• 20:21
  features that they want he they will wanted him to wear the
• 20:23
  scarf as well and Tom Baker himself said no, let's just have
• 20:27
  a completely original costume for this 1A savvy move I think.
• 20:30
  And even better is Lela's costume, which sort of would
• 20:36
  would have liked her to carry on in that, if I'm being honest,
• 20:39
  it's a great costume. You remember when, Oh no, sorry.
• 20:42
  You're both really young, so you will forget.
• 20:44
  But when the VHS first came out of this and it came out unedited
• 20:48
  with no cliffhangers or anything, and they took out some
• 20:51
  of the more worrying aspects. Not the racism, interestingly
• 20:53
  enough, but of this sequence here, they took out all the bits
• 20:56
  of them, brandishing their nunchucks and things like that,
• 20:59
  like that's genuinely going to terrify children.
• 21:01
  Half of this stuff was edited out, I remember.
• 21:03
  And the knives? You didn't see the knives
• 21:05
  either. Yeah, it's strange how that's OK
• 21:08
  now and leader go around killing people.
• 21:11
  Yeah, that's fine. He's just the race.
• 21:13
  Is right. I've got a question about deep
• 21:16
  Roy. Like, so he was going up
• 21:19
  people's assholes. Yes, right.
• 21:21
  Yeah. And doing what?
• 21:23
  Oh well, the first scene is a man going through customs,
• 21:28
  right? He's a big fat man who spills
• 21:29
  across two seats on the plane, a bit like I do, and then he goes
• 21:34
  to the toilet when he gets to the other side and Deep Roy's
• 21:36
  basically hijacked it up his arsehole to get from 1 country
• 21:39
  to another. He just.
• 21:40
  Didn't want to play pay for a plane.
• 21:42
  Ticket. Very strange.
• 21:47
  Honestly, that was when David Duchovny had chipped out the
• 21:50
  series and Robert Patrick was in, and suddenly the acting was
• 21:52
  really good. Yeah, I I've not seen any
• 21:55
  X-Files. Sorry.
• 21:56
  I know. Sorry.
• 21:58
  You've seen game before the. Faces.
• 22:00
  On YouTube. Have you seen it in Thrones?
• 22:02
  Right. I don't like it in Thrones.
• 22:03
  I'll tell you now, I'm going to drag you through the streets
• 22:05
  like Cersei going shame, Shame. All right.
• 22:10
  Oh, OK. Here we go.
• 22:10
  We've got Lisa and Cheng on the stage here.
• 22:12
  See, I love all this stuff on the stage.
• 22:15
  Like, I I I would. I like magic shows.
• 22:18
  I like being in the theatre. I watched Derren Brown in July.
• 22:22
  That sort of stuff is just so on my street, so to see it on
• 22:25
  Doctor Who is even better. Have you ever read any of Darren
• 22:29
  Brown's books? No, but that sounds like it's
• 22:32
  going to straight on my Christmas list.
• 22:33
  He's a psychology expert, OK? And he read a he wrote a book
• 22:37
  called Happy. It's a massive tone which goes
• 22:40
  into Stoicism and the sort of psychological condition of being
• 22:45
  happy over time. It's absolutely brilliant.
• 22:47
  Check it out. Nothing.
• 22:48
  Yeah, I will. He is unbelievable.
• 22:50
  I love everything he does. Okey Dokey.
• 22:54
  So Mr. Sin is currently posing as, you know, a mannequin in all
• 22:59
  of his help. Police murder, you know.
• 23:03
  And the here's the lady being levitated.
• 23:07
  Wobble. Yes, there are wires I think.
• 23:09
  Aren't there involved in this trick?
• 23:11
  I could, because I think you mentioned on two Watch who that
• 23:14
  some of the chicks are real. I think not.
• 23:16
  For real, yeah. And the Louise Jameson said he,
• 23:19
  the girl from the Magic Circle, came in and said how to you
• 23:22
  know, they actually did these on stage for real.
• 23:24
  So there's no like the. TV The Official Secrets Act of
• 23:27
  the. Magician Oh wow.
• 23:28
  How they do it. So he has actually doing these
• 23:32
  for really? Where?
• 23:33
  Did they say this theater was because none of this is in
• 23:35
  studio? This is no.
• 23:36
  This is on location. Yeah, I can't remember which one
• 23:40
  it is, but. Oh, Mr. Sit is so creepy.
• 23:44
  He's really quick. Can I comment on the costuming
• 23:47
  for this as well, which is so rich?
• 23:50
  David, the colours on the screen.
• 23:52
  Yeah, that's the word that is so rich.
• 23:56
  I think you know I do do this for a living.
• 23:58
  No, I don't. She is wobbling now.
• 23:59
  She is wobbling I. Don't know how they would that.
• 24:03
  That's got to be wise, surely? It's.
• 24:05
  Usually his extraordinary powers to levitate, there's going to be
• 24:08
  a bit. Of a wobble.
• 24:10
  Honestly. You ever picked up a woman
• 24:12
  before, Luke? Yeah.
• 24:14
  Hard work? I wouldn't know, but thank God
• 24:18
  we've got a heterosexual on here for one, so I can ask that
• 24:20
  question. Oh, look at that.
• 24:23
  Start the blood coming down his arm know.
• 24:25
  What they liked a bit of blood in Hinchcliffs though, because
• 24:27
  you was watching robots the day after the other week and there
• 24:30
  was a scene with a robot and with all blood and gunk all over
• 24:32
  it. Yeah.
• 24:33
  And this, I didn't realise, is this isn't Studio.
• 24:36
  This is on location. It's neat, a museum or something
• 24:40
  that's a recreation of a Victorian police station.
• 24:42
  So that out on location here I didn't realize I was watching on
• 24:44
  the making of well. Because they were saying,
• 24:46
  weren't they, that the scripts weren't ready And Robert Holmes
• 24:49
  said no, I don't have time to write these scripts.
• 24:52
  And Hinchco said, look, just give us enough so we can do
• 24:54
  location work for the first four episodes and then you go away
• 24:57
  and write it all and have fun with it.
• 25:00
  So that. And he was probably phoning up
• 25:01
  every day going, can you find a Mortuary?
• 25:03
  Yes, right. I'll write it in.
• 25:04
  Good. So I didn't realise it's going
• 25:06
  to be seen. That's an actual location as
• 25:08
  well. You just assumed that this was
• 25:10
  all studio, but it's some kind of museum place.
• 25:14
  And guys, I don't Can't believe we've got this far without
• 25:17
  mentioning Tom Baker and Louise Jameson as Doctor and Lila.
• 25:20
  Any thoughts? Well, I wasn't always a big.
• 25:23
  Fan Yeah, they're not my favorite pairing.
• 25:27
  I actually prefer such a such a fan wonky thing to say, but I do
• 25:31
  prefer them on Big Finish because he actually likes her on
• 25:34
  Big Finish. Yeah.
• 25:36
  But I'll tell you what the stories are not.
• 25:38
  Yeah, the Big Finish one. Well, no, they're not.
• 25:41
  But those? Were written by Nick Briggs.
• 25:43
  I I think season 15 though is my easy, my least favorite Tom
• 25:47
  Baker series and and I think a big part of that is the fact
• 25:51
  that Tom Baker can't look her in the eye.
• 25:53
  I think these three when she comes in a really strong you
• 25:57
  know your face of evil robots to death and this and that's why I
• 26:00
  like but she just seems to revert after this doesn't she?
• 26:02
  She reverts back to like pre face of evil and and somebody
• 26:07
  could just can't look at it. A lot of people say that's Bob
• 26:09
  Baker and Dave Martin. They write her in Invisible
• 26:11
  Enemy and Underworld, and in both those scripts she's
• 26:14
  described as stupid by one of the other characters.
• 26:17
  No. But I think Terence Dixon,
• 26:20
  Horror Phone Rock, Chris Boucher, who's her creator in
• 26:23
  Image of the Fender, and then Robert Holmes in the Sun Makers,
• 26:25
  they all write her really well in that season.
• 26:27
  So it's kind of like. It's up and down, isn't it?
• 26:29
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 26:30
  Oh, my God. Wait, wait.
• 26:32
  Yeah, here we are. Oh, it's just I.
• 26:35
  Can't stand the mud lock. I don't know why everyone likes
• 26:41
  her. She's called the Ghoul.
• 26:44
  Oh, it looks so great the way it's filmed.
• 26:45
  This could be from any Victorian film from something.
• 26:49
  It doesn't look like it's something from Doctor Who.
• 26:51
  So we will, we will talk about Big Finish later, Jago and
• 26:55
  Lightfoot specifically, but they they bring her back, don't they
• 26:59
  in like series. No, they.
• 27:01
  Don't they? Do I've.
• 27:01
  Learned that one. It's Jago, Lightfoot and Patsy,
• 27:06
  isn't it? Yeah.
• 27:09
  Because I've got up to about so. They're like, right?
• 27:14
  Well, there's a. You do spend an hour going.
• 27:17
  It's a floucher. Oh my God.
• 27:20
  Remark is up. I've got that served up with
• 27:22
  onions. You know, I've got up to Series
• 27:24
  10. I just haven't heard no, I.
• 27:26
  Haven't. I'm sure she's in it before
• 27:27
  series 10. There's a there's an episode
• 27:30
  round eight I think called Jagger, Lightfoot and Patsy.
• 27:33
  And Patsy is a mudlock and I think it's heavily implied.
• 27:36
  It's her. Oh, it's God.
• 27:37
  It's amazing. I think by that series there
• 27:41
  we're getting a little desperate, you know?
• 27:43
  Yeah, I mean literally every 5th of talent to work Jag has come
• 27:47
  back in some form. Oh, and River Solomon has been
• 27:50
  part of in her set. She's in a Pre in a prequel.
• 27:53
  She's at the theatre before hanging around I.
• 27:56
  Really want that set? Is it the one where she goes?
• 27:59
  No. When she's in the web.
• 28:02
  Affair. Yeah, she goes into Carnival
• 28:03
  monsters. Yeah, it sounds the same up my
• 28:07
  street. It's a bit she just wanders
• 28:10
  around the mini scope and kind of all the monsters just meet in
• 28:12
  extra. You are right though, like all
• 28:14
  the elements, it's like Trevor Baxter's Professor Lightfoot
• 28:18
  turned up in the 8th Doctor book The Body Snatches.
• 28:21
  It was one of the 1st 8th Doctor books with the Zygons.
• 28:24
  Yeah, that was pretty good, yeah.
• 28:25
  It was all right, Yeah. There's a great twist where the
• 28:29
  woman, Emma Lemeline, turns out to be a Zygon.
• 28:31
  Oh, sorry. Anyone who's going to read that
• 28:34
  twist 2/3 into the book? Well, Speaking of what's going
• 28:37
  on around Tamils Wing Trang, so there's a book called A History.
• 28:41
  I don't know if anyone. 'S Can we take a bit of a moment
• 28:44
  just to see that Lars Parkin has written the entire history of
• 28:47
  that? Is in order.
• 28:49
  It's it's a timeline of, you know, The Big Bang right through
• 28:53
  to where? No way.
• 28:54
  I've always thought this is impossible to do.
• 28:57
  I mean, it's gone. This is the second, third
• 29:00
  edition. The 4th edition is 4.
• 29:01
  It's 3 volumes now. But it's yeah, it's history.
• 29:05
  It's puts all the Doctor Who stories in order of history.
• 29:07
  So I've Got Talent. Weng Chiang in Where Are We
• 29:11
  1888? So you can, I was going to look
• 29:14
  see what what else is happening in the Doctor Who world around
• 29:16
  this time. Interesting.
• 29:18
  Come on Mark, tell us. Well, so, oh, sorry, 1889 is
• 29:22
  Talons Wen Chiang. Yeah.
• 29:24
  So also in 1889, that's where Sarah Jane and Lost in Time.
• 29:29
  Oh, that. Was bad.
• 29:29
  Do you remember that one? And she makes a.
• 29:31
  Mouse. So that's going on those.
• 29:33
  Two kids were being burned alive, weren't they?
• 29:35
  Yeah. In November 1888, Madam Vastra
• 29:39
  and Jenny. Are Oh no.
• 29:41
  Catching Jack the Ripper, apparently.
• 29:43
  Is that a good oh? Yeah, a.
• 29:45
  Good man goes to what? Yeah.
• 29:46
  But also in November 1888, the Valley Yard has control of the
• 29:52
  Dark Matrix lands in Whitechapel. 1888 calls himself
• 29:57
  the Ripper and kills prostitutes.
• 30:00
  Then the Matrix in Matrix. But then the 7th Doctor and Ace
• 30:03
  arrive and sort it all out and. So Craig, can we link the two
• 30:07
  together there? Does Vasture kill the Valley
• 30:09
  Yard? Does Vasture eat the Valley
• 30:11
  Yard? As far as Moffett ain't all over
• 30:14
  this shit, I'm telling you, All right.
• 30:16
  So, and then before that, in September, the 11th Doctor, Amy,
• 30:20
  and Rory apparently land and help capture Jack the Ripper,
• 30:25
  which turns out to be an alien reptile.
• 30:28
  What's that from? What's?
• 30:29
  That one of the comics. Must be one of the some of the,
• 30:31
  So yeah it covers comics. Audio books.
• 30:34
  That is insane. What comes next?
• 30:37
  So after this Well 18891890, Vincent the doctor is taking
• 30:41
  place. How?
• 30:42
  Marvellous. What an episode.
• 30:44
  Fabulous. Well, well then Jay Go Lightfoot
• 30:46
  starts in 1892, apparently. So it's all the Jay Go
• 30:49
  Lightfoot. That's a.
• 30:50
  Couple of years later, yeah. Oh, that's right.
• 30:52
  Because when they meet in the pub, it does.
• 30:54
  They say there's been a little bit of time.
• 30:56
  Yeah, the Greal affair. Oh, and also in 1888, the 8th
• 31:00
  Doctor is wandering around with amnesia now, so that's all going
• 31:06
  on. Could be applied to any year.
• 31:08
  Actually, laugh at that. Those are fabulous books.
• 31:09
  Those ones, honestly. Yeah, so it's all happening so
• 31:13
  well. I it's.
• 31:15
  The here where Jago goes up into sorry, I'm just bringing us back
• 31:17
  to tell us away, just for a second.
• 31:20
  He touches the dummy and it comes to life for a second,
• 31:23
  doesn't it? The eyes open.
• 31:24
  Yeah, yeah, can. You even imagine?
• 31:26
  I mean, I would shit my pants. I'm telling.
• 31:30
  You. Oh God.
• 31:31
  He goes Yes, it was bloody. The eyes man.
• 31:37
  Oh, oh look, we've all gone quiet watching it now.
• 31:43
  That's the issue with the covering good episodes on
• 31:45
  Hamster. It's very hard not to just sit
• 31:47
  here and watch them. Well, we talked all over Rings
• 31:50
  of Acatine. You're telling me that's not a
• 31:51
  good episode? No, I I was.
• 31:53
  I had loads to say I was trying to support it.
• 31:56
  This doesn't need my support. What Luke?
• 31:59
  We've got another chance to sing at this one as well, haven't we?
• 32:02
  Daisy. Yeah.
• 32:06
  Anyway, sorry So Christopher Benjamin.
• 32:10
  Yes. Marvellous now.
• 32:12
  Which one do you prefer, Jago or Lightfoot?
• 32:15
  Oh, I love them. They're so different.
• 32:18
  They are, yeah, but which one do you prefer?
• 32:20
  I don't prefer either, I feel like I think.
• 32:23
  Jago is. Marks God.
• 32:27
  They're not. They're not.
• 32:28
  Two individuals, aren't they? Like they're Jago and Lightfoot.
• 32:30
  Yeah, I know, I know. Lightfoot.
• 32:34
  No, I know. Yeah, but.
• 32:36
  Who do you prefer? Probably Jago is more fun.
• 32:39
  I think that's it. Jago just said.
• 32:40
  Just sit on fun. But you you he wouldn't be fun
• 32:43
  without Lightfoot. So.
• 32:45
  It's the contrast, isn't it? It's that culture clash.
• 32:48
  Yeah, it's. So funny, they don't spend that
• 32:50
  much time together in this, no? Not at all.
• 32:53
  Not at all. Episode.
• 32:54
  That's the clever thing is, they're both established as
• 32:56
  characters in their own right, then they're brought together to
• 32:59
  contrast against each other. It's superb, right?
• 33:02
  Yeah, brilliant. There's a sinister Chinese man
• 33:05
  here down the Foggy St. We'll see how to.
• 33:09
  How sometimes think of me and Chris are like Jacob and M4.
• 33:12
  He's, he's Jago, obviously. Mark and I are like glitz and
• 33:17
  dibber. We're like French and Saunders
• 33:21
  Sauceware. It's a diver.
• 33:24
  I love that. Can I just?
• 33:25
  Say about Trevor Baxter because I did once do an interview with
• 33:29
  Trevor Baxter for Doco Ho reviews website I am Doco Ho.
• 33:33
  Did you know that? I know I.
• 33:35
  Am Yeah, yeah. You've been using my Big Finish
• 33:38
  recommendation. It's strange that I do, yeah.
• 33:40
  I used to read them without knowing it was you Our.
• 33:43
  Paths are always meant meant. Destiny.
• 33:46
  But he was the the cutest man I've ever spoken to, so he
• 33:50
  didn't take phone calls. You had to leave her an arts
• 33:53
  phone message with your telephone number and he rang you
• 33:55
  back. Oh, he was so and he was so
• 33:58
  lovely. And he had pinned sharp
• 34:00
  recollections of this story and just fantastic stories about
• 34:03
  treading the bores of the theatres all around England.
• 34:07
  Yeah, I've only ever heard wonderful things about him and
• 34:10
  if you listen to any of the behind the scenes and the Big
• 34:12
  Finish stuff, he is razor sharp and his his love of theatre and
• 34:18
  stories really comes out on that.
• 34:20
  Yeah, just gorgeous and what a character.
• 34:23
  He plays a vicar in an episode of George Mildred.
• 34:26
  That's the only other thing I've seen him in.
• 34:29
  He's great. I can't remember what he.
• 34:31
  Said. Now do the line I love.
• 34:32
  Which is what? George.
• 34:33
  George, you are not giving me enough 5 LB shopping money a
• 34:37
  week. Quickly do the one about the
• 34:43
  Ming bars. Oh God, that's hilarious talking
• 34:46
  about racism. So yeah, so they're clearing out
• 34:51
  a loft and they're finding like antiques and stuff.
• 34:52
  And the guy goes, he gets the bars and he flicks it and he
• 34:55
  goes if it goes. Ming.
• 34:57
  It's Ming. If it goes Tang, it's Tang.
• 35:01
  This one goes Woolworths. Oh, I love it.
• 35:09
  I've not seen him in anything else apart from that.
• 35:10
  Can you think of anything cooler than this line in a minute when
• 35:13
  the axe in beds next to Tom Baker's head and he goes, Are
• 35:16
  you trying to get my attention? It's so, Doctor, isn't it?
• 35:20
  Do. You know what's fabulous about
• 35:22
  this is I do think it's treated seriously, but it's got comic
• 35:26
  lines. It's that perfect balance.
• 35:29
  All the best Doctor Who's of it? Do you?
• 35:32
  OK, well here's a big question for you both then.
• 35:34
  Do you think one of Doctor Who's strengths?
• 35:36
  Because I think a lot of science fiction can be incredibly PO
• 35:39
  faced. You ever seen an episode of
• 35:40
  Blake 7? Do you think one of Doctor Who
• 35:43
  is his sense of humour? 100% And it's it's one of those
• 35:47
  things that when you're growing up or when I was growing up was
• 35:50
  like through my teenage years and you just want Doctor Who to
• 35:53
  be serious so you want it to be dark and and everything and then
• 35:56
  you reach a point when you realise what makes Doctor Who so
• 35:59
  good. I think it is when you go and
• 36:01
  watch all the PO face sci-fi I can't stand Blake seven.
• 36:05
  I'm so I I I like all loads of Doctor Who fans seems to go
• 36:09
  together or you like Doctor Who you like Blake 7.
• 36:12
  Blake 7 is so straight, so boring.
• 36:15
  What have. You betrayed us.
• 36:17
  Have you betrayed me? Oh, just I've tried so many
• 36:22
  episodes of it as well. I've tried it in order out of
• 36:24
  all the I've got. A couple I could recommend that
• 36:26
  are actual comedies, although I think they might.
• 36:28
  They're supposed to be serious. I like.
• 36:30
  Like sort of six episodes of like 7 because they're a bit
• 36:33
  more, yeah, but that's a good and termination set up really
• 36:35
  well. I like those one termination all
• 36:38
  the time. But I honestly, yeah, the humour
• 36:39
  in Doctor Who is what makes it because like Star Trek about
• 36:43
  that conversation, I don't like Star Trek's humour or those kind
• 36:46
  of shows. It's.
• 36:48
  Just not funny. They are not funny.
• 36:50
  They don't work like Doctor Who just, you know, it's like, oh,
• 36:53
  Data, You Can Dance. Is that what humans did in the
• 36:56
  20th? Century.
• 36:56
  It's such a it's such a fine line, isn't it?
• 36:59
  You don't. You don't want it to be silly.
• 37:02
  You know what? But no, I think even now, even
• 37:05
  now, I think some of the Doctor Who's, the classic Doctor Who's
• 37:08
  that people really enjoy that are Doctor Who fans, are the
• 37:10
  daft ones where you have fun with it.
• 37:14
  You can just be really hypocritical in this situation,
• 37:16
  though, because there's some silly things in Doctor Who,
• 37:18
  they're just marvellous and there's some stuff they're like,
• 37:21
  get out, just go away. Are you talking about a giant
• 37:24
  fluffy rat by any chance? I never had it.
• 37:26
  I've never had an issue with like effects really on Doctor
• 37:30
  Who, so this really didn't bother me at the time.
• 37:33
  I don't think it's it's incredibly bad until you see it
• 37:37
  like. Later on, yeah.
• 37:40
  Fluffy, but yeah, they they are. It's all.
• 37:43
  Right, for the most part, they're using a real rat in a
• 37:48
  miniature. I say it.
• 37:50
  I think when I first watched it, I watched in a really sunny day
• 37:54
  on a small TV, so I couldn't even see what it was.
• 37:56
  It's so dark down there and see what I couldn't see.
• 38:00
  It could have been much worse. I think they could have really
• 38:02
  like been overlit and you would have seen the full thing.
• 38:05
  But no, they I think they do quite well.
• 38:07
  OK, well chaps, we have reached the end of episode one.
• 38:10
  I feel like we've come as a little already.
• 38:13
  We've got five episodes to go, but fortunately we've got help
• 38:16
  from Twitter. I'm going to ask a couple of
• 38:18
  questions at the end of each episode of that.
• 38:21
  I'm going. To start with Andy Parkinson,
• 38:25
  That's at Caffrey's 71. He's the fabulous man, he says.
• 38:30
  I really love this story. Obvious issues aside, who said
• 38:34
  that? That someone had to put a caveat
• 38:35
  in for every tweet. There it is there isn't it?
• 38:38
  I said yeah, yeah. It's got everything, A great
• 38:42
  villain. Lilia is wonderful, Jago and
• 38:44
  Lightfoot and the sets and the locations look amazing.
• 38:47
  Is this the best classic who has ever looked so far or ever?
• 38:53
  Yes. This point at least, yes, and I
• 38:57
  can't really think of anything after this as we go into the
• 39:00
  80s. No, I don't think you can't.
• 39:05
  Yeah, I wouldn't give it an award for being set in the
• 39:07
  modern day because if because it's just already there.
• 39:10
  So for something that's an alien world or the past or something,
• 39:13
  yeah, definitely the best it ever looks in classes up to in.
• 39:16
  Terms of resources, the location work, the costumes, the props.
• 39:21
  I think it's that location stuff at night time with the and using
• 39:26
  those locations in London. I think that's what really makes
• 39:29
  it. It's the fog.
• 39:31
  It it literally is the fog. I'll say that Battlefield
• 39:33
  pumping a bit of dry ice. And OK, yeah, the Battlefield 1
• 39:36
  doesn't really work. Completely different type of
• 39:39
  That's like dry ice in a field in bright daylight.
• 39:41
  That doesn't really. OK, so there's some dry ice.
• 39:44
  And never mind, don't worry, OK, Jim Allenby, he says.
• 39:48
  Not really a question, but something that popped into my
• 39:50
  head today, this story. But with Hartnell and Purvis, I
• 39:54
  don't know why. Imagine it in black and white, a
• 39:57
  Season 3 classic. Bit like the massacre.
• 40:01
  Yeah. But really funny.
• 40:02
  And they do comedy in series 3, and they're Gunfire us.
• 40:05
  Yeah, but it would. You don't think that story, I
• 40:08
  think. I do like I like thinking of
• 40:11
  that. You can imagine like Stephen
• 40:14
  with Jayco and Lightfoot in the middle between him.
• 40:19
  He was in there sort of start his master plan.
• 40:21
  You remember the Hollywood episode where?
• 40:23
  Yeah, it'll be like. Chaos going on around him.
• 40:25
  I can imagine Hartnell on the stage as well with when Chang's
• 40:29
  doing the magic to it. Yeah, Facing up against Chang,
• 40:32
  yeah. Hartnell versus Chang.
• 40:35
  No, it's Hartnell. Imagine what he'd come out with.
• 40:39
  Not going to say it, but you can only imagine it.
• 40:43
  Oh, and do you know what he seems in the Gunfighters Purvis,
• 40:45
  doesn't he? He could be up there going
• 40:47
  Daisy. OK, one more question then.
• 40:51
  Praise of Gregory. Oh, here we go.
• 40:53
  This is going to be contentious, guys, all right?
• 40:54
  He's a troublemaker. He's a stirrer.
• 40:57
  I'm telling you. Was spending so much of the
• 40:59
  budget on this story. Did it leave Graham Williams
• 41:02
  massive in a massive hole for season 15?
• 41:07
  Totally worth it. Or was it a bit of a Dick move?
• 41:10
  I told you it would be contentious.
• 41:13
  I I'm going to say it was totally worth it because as we
• 41:19
  as we've said many Times Now it's it's one of the best
• 41:22
  stories in classical two. It looks amazing and I think
• 41:25
  that even if you don't really have to budget in classic Doctor
• 41:28
  Who, the stories are still good. So the Sun Makers I think is a
• 41:32
  really good story but it doesn't necessarily look that good.
• 41:35
  So spending the budget doesn't it's that's not the thing that
• 41:40
  hampers season 15 for me. Oh, it does for me a little bit.
• 41:44
  I think I'm quite. I do get annoyed by the
• 41:47
  production value sometimes. Is it the contrast?
• 41:50
  Though when when? You say Season 15 to me.
• 41:54
  All I can think of is overlit, cheap.
• 41:56
  What? Image of the.
• 41:57
  Fan now. Is it the contrast from season
• 42:00
  14 where everything is pretty? Yeah, good.
• 42:04
  And then? Underworld like that is a budget
• 42:06
  thing. But as well, I think.
• 42:07
  People forget inflation went up massively when Williams joined,
• 42:11
  so suddenly TV was a lot more expect what happened here was, I
• 42:14
  think from the beginning. I put this time right way
• 42:16
  through to 14 colour TV licences came in, the BBC had a massive
• 42:20
  flood of money coming in and the budget, they said fine, fine,
• 42:23
  fine. Then Margaret Thatcher came
• 42:25
  along. Inflation went up, everything
• 42:27
  cost too much and so they're making everything on the cheap.
• 42:30
  Yeah, but that doesn't make Underworld a good script.
• 42:32
  No, I'm just trying to say it's not, it's not, it's not Talon's
• 42:35
  or Wen Chiang. I mean, people blame Talon's Wen
• 42:37
  Chiang for every fucking thing now.
• 42:38
  It's not his fault. Is the question then would you
• 42:42
  enjoy Talon's Wen Chiang if they had to make it all with Blue
• 42:45
  screen? No.
• 42:48
  Yeah. Yeah, I don't think so.
• 42:50
  Not half as much. Yeah.
• 42:52
  No. No, no location, no fog, does
• 42:56
  it. It does.
• 42:56
  Change it, it does. No.
• 42:58
  Yeah, it suddenly becomes Doctor Who.
• 43:03
  And let's just say everything is now talent's wearing Chang's
• 43:06
  fault. Yeah, I dare.
• 43:08
  Yeah. Boom.
• 43:09
  All right, I'll cut it there. Literally.
• 43:10
  She's going to be outside. Hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 43:46
  and do it quicker, quicker, quicker.
• 43:51
  Welcome back to Hamster with a Blunt Penknife with Me, that
• 43:55
  Doctor Who commentary podcast with me, Luke Malloy, and that
• 44:01
  my beautiful friends handsome Joe Ford and witty Mark Raw.
• 44:06
  From the two Watch Who Podcast. A threesome of podcast for your
• 44:09
  ears today. Hello.
• 44:12
  Wow. Mark Raw is also his.
• 44:14
  Porn name. Oh well, you just threw
• 44:20
  compliments out, so happy days. I really thought you were taking
• 44:23
  the piss at the biggest episode. Then you know, come on, this is
• 44:29
  yours if you go. I Well, on this episode we're
• 44:33
  going to be coming. Part 2 of the talents of Wing
• 44:35
  Chung. An absolutely fantastic story,
• 44:37
  fantastic episode with laughs and merry mints along the way.
• 44:44
  Shall we get into it guys, or does anyone want to say anything
• 44:48
  or do you want to jump straight? Let's go straight into it.
• 44:50
  OK. I'm ready.
• 44:52
  I'm. 1543. 2. 1. I've not had a man get to the
• 45:01
  point so quickly in many a year, I'll tell you I've.
• 45:05
  Got ping pong good too, haven't I?
• 45:08
  That is, in fact, a euphemism. Can we go back to Ghoul?
• 45:14
  Speak a minute? Because I've looked up there is
• 45:18
  a whole history of ghoul online. There was a short story.
• 45:21
  Of course there is Of how serious?
• 45:24
  The ghouls. So after she found the body in
• 45:28
  towns wing Chayang a few years later she visited Darko the
• 45:32
  house look for scraps in the bins, only to get a glimpse of
• 45:36
  the living snowmen laying siege to the house.
• 45:39
  She then bore witness to the fatal fall of a girl.
• 45:42
  Clara. Oh, no way that I've accepted in
• 45:46
  that as head Canon. Oh, there's more.
• 45:48
  There's more. Pat.
• 45:49
  Seesaw, Clara. Die.
• 45:51
  I love it. In 1893 she visited her sister
• 45:55
  in Yorkshire and found another body, this time a man whose skin
• 45:58
  had turned blistered red. The Crimson aura.
• 46:01
  Yes, the Crimson is. Man oh man, Moffat's obsessed
• 46:06
  with Victoria London, isn't he? Honestly.
• 46:09
  Yeah, she was arrested in 1893 and her cell was next to the
• 46:13
  murderers, the murderer Clarence DeMarco.
• 46:18
  Oh, the whisperer. And the Worcester men stopped by
• 46:20
  her cell and attempted to charge her with a message to the
• 46:23
  doctor. This car be real.
• 46:24
  This is like the Doctor Donna. The Doctor Patsy.
• 46:27
  Was busy in series 7B wouldn't. She and then she helps such a
• 46:30
  girl Lightfoot a bit. She does come to a sad end
• 46:33
  though, when in 1898 she saw the Tyrannosaurus Rex in the River
• 46:38
  Thames. She was then confronted with the
• 46:40
  half faced man who told her she had nice skin and invited her to
• 46:44
  eat. That's the the family
• 46:46
  restaurant. I'm not being funny, but surely
• 46:48
  that's the one thing she wouldn't have?
• 46:50
  No, she's a Woodlark like. Monsters How they managed to
• 46:56
  weave Elton Pope through the continuity of serious.
• 46:59
  One and two is that. Like someone's done the same
• 47:01
  with Patsy. Wow.
• 47:02
  It's like that. Who killed Kennedy book.
• 47:06
  That's that. Like weaves through the 70s.
• 47:09
  Who who wrote that? That is.
• 47:11
  The short story in Doctor Who Magazine, apparently.
• 47:15
  Honestly, I was sick. That would, wouldn't it?
• 47:18
  So there we go. Yeah, Is.
• 47:19
  Is there anything more doctor than that, Like a mud lock for
• 47:23
  10 seconds in the talents of Wenchai?
• 47:25
  Oh, it's. A wee wee 7B.
• 47:31
  Well, isn't that the joy of? Dogs.
• 47:33
  It really is. I feel like there's a ton of
• 47:35
  characters that hasn't been done to.
• 47:36
  Someone's going to be listening to this.
• 47:38
  Now Make it their. Life work because.
• 47:40
  Probably every story can have some guest characters can have
• 47:43
  their own series or. I would like to write.
• 47:45
  Stories got the. Story You know the man in
• 47:47
  stones, a blood who comes out of the tent and he's doing his
• 47:50
  trousers up. I would like to write his entire
• 47:52
  life history up to that point. Obviously he dies then, so you
• 47:54
  can't write beyond. Yeah, that's the one Russell T
• 47:57
  Davis often quotes, isn't it? It's like the scene the like he
• 48:02
  based his Doctor Who on, so bringing monsters to normal
• 48:07
  people, Oh. Sorry.
• 48:09
  Yeah, I'm sorry the people. Yeah, well, before that, the
• 48:13
  ghoul, Patsy. The ghoul had all of that.
• 48:15
  All the monsters came to Earth. She was just having a holiday in
• 48:18
  Yorkshire. I I don't.
• 48:20
  I don't mind doing this. But in audio?
• 48:23
  Christ, that's it. Just wasn't for me.
• 48:25
  You know, I'd say exactly to you two what Jago just said to
• 48:28
  Casey. You know, because you're both
• 48:29
  very pretty boys. I'll say go on, boys, and make
• 48:33
  sure you don't get mistaken for one of those girls.
• 48:35
  All right. On the way.
• 48:38
  OK. What's occurring in town?
• 48:40
  Back to actually what's happening on?
• 48:41
  The It's because the girls have been going missing at the
• 48:44
  theatre, haven't they? Because Chang's been sort of
• 48:48
  taking them so that Magnus Grill can feast on them.
• 48:51
  That's basically the idea. That's leaning into Jack the
• 48:53
  Ripper. Yeah.
• 48:55
  Heavily. Now, why about Jaco's lungs?
• 48:57
  You know, he's always got a bloody cigar on the go.
• 49:00
  They still alive though, isn't he Chris for Benjamin.
• 49:03
  Yeah, he is, yeah. I met him a few years ago.
• 49:04
  He was really nice. I'd love to meet him.
• 49:06
  He was. Brilliant, yeah.
• 49:08
  Well, I. Like, I like him in all his new
• 49:10
  stories. I think he's great in Inferno,
• 49:12
  Inferno. He's marvelous.
• 49:14
  Keith Gold. Yeah, and it's a very different
• 49:17
  sort of character. And I love him in uniform.
• 49:18
  The Wasp. As well.
• 49:20
  That the double Daydream is fantastic.
• 49:23
  Where he goes. Mafa King, and he's looking
• 49:25
  through The Dirty pictures of the women.
• 49:27
  Don't. Really snap out of it.
• 49:32
  I think you know the effect here on Chang's eyes, and they're
• 49:34
  getting a bit better. Do you remember in Planet of
• 49:37
  Evil when they were trying to do like on the eyelids possession
• 49:40
  noise? I love the planet of Evil 1.
• 49:42
  I think this one's better though.
• 49:44
  No Planet of Evil's better. Yeah, Planet of Evil is better,
• 49:47
  yeah. Actually they're both wrong, but
• 49:49
  I appreciate. It the Blu-ray effects on this
• 49:51
  aren't I don't like. I don't like it.
• 49:54
  Yeah, I mean, fair enough with the rat, but the eyes are fine.
• 49:57
  I wouldn't even touch that. I mean, there's very few special
• 50:01
  effects in Inverted Compass, isn't it?
• 50:03
  There's the the eyes coming out of the dragon later on.
• 50:06
  I think there's a a gun, isn't there, that Magnus Grill has.
• 50:10
  Yeah. And there's the red sort of
• 50:12
  talons in that converted chamber.
• 50:14
  Yeah, like that. Dead like old leaves.
• 50:21
  I mean, we're far from it, but I think the worst part, it's not
• 50:26
  worse because it's not really bad.
• 50:27
  But you said it on to watch here as well, Mark.
• 50:31
  When Magnus Grill comes into it, it's probably the least
• 50:33
  interesting part of talents one time, because Chang is such a
• 50:37
  compelling character that then he saw gets put to one side and
• 50:41
  we have Magnus Greeley's. What is the kind of mask their?
• 50:44
  Dynamics are really interesting. So he's interesting, and then
• 50:46
  Chang dies, and then he's just basically a ranting villain,
• 50:49
  isn't? He Yeah.
• 50:49
  And even at that point, Mr. Soon is, well, more interesting
• 50:52
  because he's on the dragon, laughing his head off.
• 50:54
  Yeah, he's literally going. And I think it it is true that
• 51:01
  they were thinking this would be the decayed master at one point,
• 51:05
  and apparently sort of leftover bits in the script is obviously
• 51:09
  the time cabinet would have been his TARDIS.
• 51:12
  Oh my. And when and he said something
• 51:14
  about the the regeneration energy and stuff from the women
• 51:16
  would. Be Oh, that makes so much sense
• 51:18
  to me. There's.
• 51:19
  Things that are still left, I'm. Surprised someone hasn't
• 51:21
  rewritten this so that's the case.
• 51:23
  I'm sure that that that that Big Finish range where they like,
• 51:26
  take the really crap first draft and make and make a worse
• 51:30
  version of a story that. Yeah, the script Return of the
• 51:34
  Cybermen there. Why?
• 51:36
  Featuring Sladen's daughter and who I mean.
• 51:38
  I don't know who's it for. Me.
• 51:41
  I wouldn't listen to it you don't like.
• 51:43
  Revenge Poverman isn't even that great.
• 51:44
  Anyway, you don't want another version.
• 51:46
  You don't want a worse version of revenge at the side man, do
• 51:49
  you? Why?
• 51:50
  Why? Because what if it's better?
• 51:52
  What if Jerry Davis was a better writer than Robert Holmes, and
• 51:54
  that's a revelation? They're doing the arcing space
• 51:56
  world that is a waste of Tom Baker.
• 51:58
  I think they should be concentrating on doing decent.
• 52:01
  News 1 Star of you, a waste of some bacon.
• 52:05
  I would not want to be putting out merchandiser you to listen
• 52:08
  to. I'm telling you, yeah, you're
• 52:09
  fucking scathing the pair of you.
• 52:12
  Yeah, but I think I I can't be scathing with things, but I'm
• 52:16
  really complimentary when it's cool as I think.
• 52:18
  You are. In fact you are, although I just
• 52:19
  think you was wrong about that. First, What was it?
• 52:22
  What was that one? Dialect.
• 52:24
  Universe All the androids. I would love that.
• 52:27
  One yeah, that's the I That's the only episode of Dark
• 52:30
  Universe I don't like. It's boring.
• 52:32
  Really boring. And and.
• 52:34
  The one you know, the one at the end where it was Sara Kingdom,
• 52:37
  not Sara Kingdom. What's her name and your Kingdom
• 52:39
  learning about her sister. And I love that one as well.
• 52:42
  That's really. Is that the one with the
• 52:43
  mechanoids? No.
• 52:44
  No, no, no. It's the one where there is sort
• 52:45
  of this weird space. Oh, the lost.
• 52:48
  Yeah, yeah, that that was actually better on second time
• 52:51
  around. Can I say pretty much every
• 53:00
  single line that comes out of Lila's mouth is gold.
• 53:02
  Oh, it's. Great.
• 53:03
  Yeah. That how much they lean into
• 53:05
  that Professor Higgins Pygmalion, teacher, student,
• 53:10
  relationship. And it's never stronger than it
• 53:12
  is here. And it's the perfect setting for
• 53:14
  it as well. It's terrific.
• 53:17
  Like like any potential that was there in her character is
• 53:21
  realised here. Yeah, yeah.
• 53:23
  And that's why there's. Nowhere to go in there after.
• 53:26
  This. Well, probably, yeah.
• 53:27
  That's probably why Series 15 does feel a bit like a a
• 53:29
  backstaff. I mean look at this.
• 53:32
  She's going to, like we're always taught, to strike under
• 53:36
  the breastbone. Yeah, yeah, like and she's great
• 53:40
  in horror Fang rock in the same way as well.
• 53:42
  Maybe it's those historical settings that it works better
• 53:46
  rather than that and she's on another sort of futuristic
• 53:49
  setting on us. Well, I suppose because there
• 53:52
  are like traditions and values in in the historicals that you
• 53:56
  can play on that a lot more can't.
• 53:57
  You know, it's someone who doesn't understand how to act in
• 54:00
  them situations, but it's still clever.
• 54:02
  But it's in the future stories. It seems like she just becomes a
• 54:05
  bit stupid. Yeah, she keeps her intelligence
• 54:08
  in the historicals. Terroristics highlights her
• 54:10
  against Adelaide in Horror Factory so.
• 54:14
  Brilliantly. When she slaps around, the face
• 54:17
  is hilarious. Easily the best bit.
• 54:20
  But in this, she has absolute agency and she just dashes off
• 54:26
  after one of the girls, doesn't she?
• 54:28
  And then she follows the prosy to Magnus Grill's lair.
• 54:32
  And then she chase. She attacks him.
• 54:34
  Die, bent face. I mean, she's doing all this on
• 54:36
  her own without. Yeah, well, she's not scared of
• 54:39
  death, and that's something we haven't really had in a
• 54:41
  companion before because they've all been human odds, You know,
• 54:45
  it's a certain extent was, well, she is human, but you know what
• 54:48
  I mean? She's like, she's not scared of
• 54:51
  death because she's a warrior. And so that's.
• 54:54
  Just like all this stuff that's going on, she's probably killed
• 54:56
  tons more people than like Chang and everyone else put together
• 55:00
  or herself anyway in her lifetime, So it's just normal
• 55:04
  for her. Interesting point about that,
• 55:05
  what she says about what is here.
• 55:07
  I shall not bleed, and I'll hunt you down in the great here after
• 55:10
  Bent face. And put this through.
• 55:12
  My agony 1000 times, so she's great.
• 55:16
  And this like Leela and Lightfoot, what a parent.
• 55:20
  And they, I think they're my favorite Big Finish stories with
• 55:24
  Jager and Lightfoot as well when Leela gets thrown in there
• 55:27
  because you just get it all over again.
• 55:28
  Going to make a pun and say that their things together are some
• 55:31
  of the best things in Classic Home.
• 55:34
  They're hard. To argue.
• 55:35
  Dynamics when just at the dinner table, when she picks up the
• 55:39
  meat and then he picks up the meat because he's got manners.
• 55:42
  Yes, I just think it's beautiful.
• 55:45
  And that's where we'll compliment Robert Holmes.
• 55:47
  I mean, he just finds the most funniest and interesting and
• 55:52
  intelligent things to do with the two characters.
• 55:56
  And I think similarly, because that's contrasted against the
• 56:01
  Doctor and Jago in this episode where Jago's all bluff and no
• 56:06
  smarts and the top like all intelligence and into bits where
• 56:10
  he's coming in pretending he's going to do a rehearsal.
• 56:13
  Isn't he what? He says.
• 56:16
  I I do something with a live goldfish.
• 56:20
  Yes. Hey, why are you making fire in
• 56:24
  your mouth? So good.
• 56:28
  But you've got a lot of like this history there as well.
• 56:30
  He talks about coming back from Peking, his relationship with
• 56:34
  his father, and it doesn't feel like Chiba's exposition.
• 56:39
  It feels very like like a a lot of back story, yeah.
• 56:43
  Yeah, I I mean that's the sort of stuff you pick up on a bit
• 56:47
  later in like like when I watch this, I don't think I love this.
• 56:51
  When I was when I first watched, it would have been around 10:11
• 56:54
  when them DVDs were coming out, they they released the big ones
• 56:57
  first. This is one of the early ones.
• 56:59
  And I knew, I knew at that age that talent was meant to be one
• 57:03
  of the best ones ever. And I think at that age I like
• 57:07
  the magic and I like the stuff on the stage, but I didn't
• 57:10
  really get the rich dialogue and the rich sort of thing.
• 57:13
  And then you see you come back to a bit old and you can
• 57:15
  appreciate it more. And especially when you see the
• 57:18
  rest of classic Doctor Who, it really sticks out.
• 57:20
  Is being one before? It was like that.
• 57:23
  I know 10 Resurrection of the Daleks was the best piece of
• 57:26
  television I've ever seen in my life.
• 57:28
  All I wanted was bangs and whistles.
• 57:30
  Oh yeah, no, I. Think it's backwards.
• 57:33
  I mean it's. The only one that stood up like
• 57:36
  that I've been. I watched Remembrance of the
• 57:38
  Daleks very early as a kid and I thought that was amazing.
• 57:41
  It was banging. It was literally that.
• 57:43
  But I've come back to it now and it's still exactly the same.
• 57:45
  It's still amazing. The time controller has been
• 57:49
  disabled. Watch remnant.
• 57:53
  Sorry. I was so shocked.
• 57:57
  I was so expecting the the black Dalek controller to be Davros.
• 58:01
  So when it is the little girl, the first time you watch that,
• 58:04
  Oh my God, wonderful. You are a slave, Luke.
• 58:08
  You were born to sell the Daleks.
• 58:12
  I've not watched it in years. I need to watch that, OK?
• 58:14
  Oh, so what's the carried in talent when you're trying?
• 58:16
  Sorry. I think he's just made the joke
• 58:18
  about the goldfish, or it's. Called Oh.
• 58:21
  Yes, I love this bit in a minute, because a money spider,
• 58:25
  we get to see that Magnus Gill can grow things, which explains
• 58:28
  the rat. Yeah, they didn't.
• 58:30
  It's it's not covered very in much detail, is it?
• 58:34
  That's yeah. Well, is it?
• 58:36
  It's just to make an excuse. It's just to say.
• 58:38
  Yeah, just to have the rat, Yeah.
• 58:40
  He's probably thinking, well, it's Doctor Who story.
• 58:42
  I'm going to monster. We've got a monster in there
• 58:43
  somewhere. We might as well just throw in a
• 58:44
  big rat. Yeah.
• 58:46
  Yeah, I mean, rats are scary nasty.
• 58:49
  Yeah, nasty vile. I watched an episode of Doom
• 58:52
  Watch the other day right? I'm doing this podcast soon
• 58:54
  about Doom Watch. Have you heard of it?
• 58:56
  I've. Heard of it?
• 58:57
  I don't really know what it is. It looks awful.
• 59:01
  It's like you thought Black Seven was bad.
• 59:03
  This is. It's got this fabulous episode,
• 59:05
  second episode about these psychotic rats that have been
• 59:09
  given super intelligence and these 500 rats are let loose in
• 59:13
  the sewers and they're going up people's toilets and they're
• 59:15
  murdering everybody, right? And.
• 59:18
  They start. Is Deep Roy playing the Rats?
• 59:21
  How many rats? The normal rats.
• 59:23
  There's this very funny sequence where they obviously haven't got
• 59:27
  animatronics in the 70s, so they just sew the rats onto people's
• 59:30
  legs and then they're running around the the set going rats.
• 59:34
  It's very, But there was a thing about it because there was a New
• 59:37
  Avengers episode as well called Norse, and that was about a
• 59:40
  giant rat. So there was a thing about scary
• 59:42
  rats in the 70s. Yeah, well, they are vile,
• 59:45
  aren't they? Even when.
• 59:48
  Yeah, like wild ones, yeah. I think they're aren't they the
• 59:50
  most cleanest creatures we we associate them with being done.
• 59:53
  Bollocks. People say it's about pigs as
• 59:55
  well. Like, how can they be you?
• 59:59
  Never seen Peppa Pig? Oh my God, he's always rolling
• 1:00:01
  about the ship. Peppa Pig.
• 1:00:02
  Let's put in Pig in this. That's Daleks in Manhattan.
• 1:00:10
  Oh yeah. You know the posters before?
• 1:00:14
  Did you get that issue of Doctor Who magazine that had the Lee
• 1:00:19
  Hen Chang posted? Because I didn't.
• 1:00:22
  I hadn't. I hadn't subscribed at that
• 1:00:25
  point. But like, I bought that one
• 1:00:27
  because I wanted that poster so bad.
• 1:00:29
  Spit in a minute where he chases Magnus Grill all around the
• 1:00:34
  theatre. One, it's brilliantly directed,
• 1:00:37
  yes, Who is using the location excellently?
• 1:00:41
  But it's that's The Phantom of the Opera there.
• 1:00:44
  All that chasing around, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'm the obviously
• 1:00:48
  the face reveal on part 5, but I think like we've set the scene
• 1:00:53
  now and it's really rich and everything like that.
• 1:00:54
  But that burst of energy with that chase is is is needed at
• 1:00:59
  this point, yeah. And I think I.
• 1:01:01
  Think I always found that bit a bit boring.
• 1:01:03
  And I'm like, oh, there's a bit of a chase now.
• 1:01:04
  The story sort of stopped for a minute.
• 1:01:06
  Nah. You need it as a kid.
• 1:01:08
  I'll tell you honestly, Go put the Android invasion on.
• 1:01:12
  Go on. Honestly.
• 1:01:16
  Oh, look at this. And she picks up the knife and
• 1:01:18
  shoves it into the meat. And the look on his face is
• 1:01:21
  priceless. It's a good knife.
• 1:01:27
  Oh, I love it. Mark is right though that the
• 1:01:30
  Android invasion is better than the Brain and Morbius and
• 1:01:33
  Pyramids of Mars. So.
• 1:01:35
  Yes. We was recording that last
• 1:01:37
  night, weren't we? No.
• 1:01:39
  Which one? The Android invasion.
• 1:01:41
  We're going again. First time we did it, he didn't
• 1:01:44
  talk. Now I can't get.
• 1:01:49
  Shut up. Oh, it's so good and Moody in
• 1:01:50
  these cab scenes, isn't it? There is a a well communication
• 1:01:54
  work look. Real is out and about with them.
• 1:01:57
  That is real, isn't it? Out and about.
• 1:01:58
  Yeah, I was. He should sort of stay as the
• 1:02:01
  Phantom in the basement. He's off wondering around Why
• 1:02:03
  does he? Why can't he get on with doing
• 1:02:05
  everything else? Nang, if he's all right to go
• 1:02:07
  off. Around doing it all.
• 1:02:08
  Why don't? He doesn't want to let go of the
• 1:02:10
  trionic lattice, does he? That's why.
• 1:02:13
  Because it's very delicate. We can get it wrong.
• 1:02:14
  Isn't it just a lion? They leave it behind.
• 1:02:16
  Don't. They you might think that Chang
• 1:02:17
  was a bit clumsy. But yeah, I always thought it
• 1:02:19
  was weird that he comes along with them because I've.
• 1:02:21
  Never thought about it. But I mean he's he look, he's
• 1:02:24
  like he is weak, isn't he? So that it's just come out
• 1:02:28
  maybe, yeah. He's not going to be able to go
• 1:02:29
  in and do it himself. Is he?
• 1:02:30
  No, he's just he's just popping out because he's bored.
• 1:02:34
  Drippy faces all over the place. Poor fella.
• 1:02:37
  You're right about the action, Luke, because there's there's
• 1:02:40
  bursts of action throughout this.
• 1:02:41
  You get the whole sequence in the lair when Lila goes down
• 1:02:44
  there, you get the In the Sewer with the rat.
• 1:02:48
  Yeah, for obviously this whole bit here.
• 1:02:51
  There's a bit at the end of this episode, isn't it, where Sin
• 1:02:53
  comes in and she's out the window.
• 1:02:55
  Next episode. What a.
• 1:02:57
  Stunt it. Is Grace.
• 1:02:59
  That's Stuart Fell, isn't it? He was very happy because he got
• 1:03:01
  to where Louise Jameson's costume, Louise Jameson, because
• 1:03:05
  it's all full of puffs and frills, you know.
• 1:03:07
  Yeah, I think I see Mark's point.
• 1:03:10
  Like it does stop the story. But I think you've got to
• 1:03:14
  remember that as a kid, there's only so much sort of story you
• 1:03:17
  can say I, the kids watching it, will want action.
• 1:03:21
  Yeah, you got pad out the 6th parter as well at the end of the
• 1:03:24
  day, that's. True, it's probably the least
• 1:03:26
  padded 6th parter. Well, actually it feels like the
• 1:03:28
  least padded anyway. Yeah, just because everything is
• 1:03:32
  of such a good quality. Yeah, I think.
• 1:03:35
  I think all the stuff between J and Lightfoot in Episode 5 is
• 1:03:38
  technically padding. It's just talking.
• 1:03:41
  But it's so well written. Who cares?
• 1:03:43
  Yeah, exactly. And it's new.
• 1:03:45
  Because they they're only just meeting.
• 1:03:46
  So it's not like we've had that already.
• 1:03:47
  It's. Yeah, it's meant to be
• 1:03:50
  entertainment, isn't it? It doesn't really doesn't matter
• 1:03:52
  if it's padding as long as it's entertaining.
• 1:03:55
  Oh, it's so funny. Consider yourself Announcer.
• 1:03:58
  I liked for. I.
• 1:04:01
  Love it. Sorry, I'll stop quoting soon.
• 1:04:03
  No, I won't speak about Magnus Grill.
• 1:04:06
  Have any of us heard the Butcher of Brisbane from big Finnish?
• 1:04:10
  The. Story Is it a prequel or a
• 1:04:12
  sequel? You know Mark Platt.
• 1:04:14
  No, I've not. Doctor Tegan Nisa Turlow, meet
• 1:04:18
  Magnus Grill in the 51st century.
• 1:04:21
  How did it? I've got it, I don't think.
• 1:04:24
  It's hardly my favorite, Todd. It's too, that I've got to say.
• 1:04:27
  You hear the word, the Butcher of Brisbane.
• 1:04:29
  You think he's gone round and murdered loads of people, but
• 1:04:32
  actually he's just the Butcher. No, no joke.
• 1:04:40
  No, he's a mass murderer. Is it chops?
• 1:04:46
  Thing Tegan's hometown and it goes wrong and they end up in
• 1:04:51
  51st century Brisbane, I suppose.
• 1:04:54
  I don't think Mark Platt is a very strong audio writer, but
• 1:04:58
  every now and again he just brings out.
• 1:04:59
  He's hit and miss, but his. His hits are like high.
• 1:05:03
  Aren't they? Oh God, yeah.
• 1:05:04
  And he creates such visual worlds like that is easily his
• 1:05:07
  strength. So yeah, so, so we've had what
• 1:05:10
  Jago doing his own thing outside of talons.
• 1:05:15
  We've had Lifer doing his own thing, Magnus Grill doing his
• 1:05:18
  own thing. Like, has Casey had his own?
• 1:05:21
  Oh. It's interesting though, because
• 1:05:23
  it's apparently I'm just reading up on this.
• 1:05:26
  That Reel says that he's previously encountered a time
• 1:05:30
  agent in the 51st century and that is the 5th Doctor in this
• 1:05:34
  Big Finish story. Oh, I thought you were going to
• 1:05:35
  say Jack, then Jack. Hartness.
• 1:05:38
  So yeah, so the 5th Doctor me reel before this.
• 1:05:41
  But that's the first time you hear the word time agent.
• 1:05:44
  Yeah, if it does say, is that what?
• 1:05:45
  He took it from this. Story Yeah, Yeah, he does, yeah.
• 1:05:48
  So I do. I do love it when they take
• 1:05:50
  little references and then in insert it into the new series
• 1:05:54
  and then add. Oh yeah, I mean, and honestly,
• 1:05:57
  the best case of that my favorite reference ever is the
• 1:06:01
  sense sphere. With the odd sphere, I mean it.
• 1:06:04
  It just makes so much sense. And it's just a lovely little
• 1:06:07
  bit of whirl building in two. That's how you do it.
• 1:06:10
  You don't do Susan's war meet in the centre, right?
• 1:06:14
  Something. I I've bought Susan's War.
• 1:06:17
  I'm not listening to it. No, I'm.
• 1:06:19
  Listening and Ian go back to the sense fear with Beth Chalmers to
• 1:06:22
  try and get secrets of the time. I mean awful.
• 1:06:25
  Honestly, I've heard some fan wanking more time for that thing
• 1:06:29
  and the so it's wrong. Like Susan.
• 1:06:31
  No, we're not getting involved in the Time War.
• 1:06:35
  Mark message me aged ago saying that the Sensuarites and Susan
• 1:06:38
  were together and I bought it, but I've still not listened to
• 1:06:41
  it. No, it didn't turn out as
• 1:06:43
  expected. People making these.
• 1:06:46
  Well, do you know from your recommendation I didn't get
• 1:06:49
  stranded in the end because I heard your review on it, because
• 1:06:52
  I thought it was going to be. Yeah, I I'm.
• 1:06:54
  Like, oh, I can wait for that, then I.
• 1:06:56
  Enjoyed quite a lot of the stories in Stranded but.
• 1:06:59
  Just the set promise. Yeah, it just wasn't.
• 1:07:01
  What they said. I'm so sorry, this is really off
• 1:07:04
  topic. I'm so annoyed that Liv and
• 1:07:07
  Helen are still the 8th Doctor's.
• 1:07:08
  Companions. No, I'm still annoyed they're
• 1:07:11
  doing these box sets. I want original Four Part 8
• 1:07:14
  Doctor stories again. Yeah, I would.
• 1:07:16
  I would really appreciate that. I mean like Qualms 100.
• 1:07:19
  Colours of Wen Chiang, You know they've.
• 1:07:20
  Been they've been the Companions for like 10 years.
• 1:07:23
  What else can you do with Livchenko, for God's sake?
• 1:07:26
  Actors, but they ain't that interesting.
• 1:07:28
  Doesn't it? No.
• 1:07:28
  Well. She's got her own spin off with
• 1:07:30
  the robots as well. And she's meeting Chris
• 1:07:33
  Reckleston in two months time. I think they just like working
• 1:07:36
  with Nicola Walker. Say we've already so far, but
• 1:07:39
  with a whole spin off from Tanzwing, Chayang with Jago
• 1:07:43
  Leifer, a whole spin off from Rebels of Death with the robots.
• 1:07:47
  I mean, is there any part of season 14 we've had Eldrad from
• 1:07:51
  the atrophy? What's them?
• 1:07:52
  Eldrad must die. Eldrad must, yeah.
• 1:07:55
  Eldrad must die. I mean, I I want to pick that
• 1:07:58
  up. I mean.
• 1:07:58
  Is it nothing they won't touch from this era?
• 1:08:01
  Well, no, because it is gold though, isn't it?
• 1:08:03
  And it will sell. See.
• 1:08:05
  So what else did we add? Nothing from Mandragora.
• 1:08:07
  I was going to say, is the Mandragora come back?
• 1:08:09
  No, I. Don't I think surely in some
• 1:08:12
  spin off media every classic monsters come back at some
• 1:08:16
  point? Probably.
• 1:08:17
  It's the what is there, just is there possibly one that I was
• 1:08:21
  in? And annoyingly he brought out
• 1:08:22
  like 3 stories where they had a planet of evil and stuff like
• 1:08:25
  that. Oh.
• 1:08:25
  Planet of Evil oh, Planet of Evil's Got a book, BBC book Oh
• 1:08:28
  yeah, Zeta Minor or major, whichever 1.
• 1:08:31
  Can I just draw your attention back to the?
• 1:08:32
  Screen. I've got double standards
• 1:08:39
  because you remember that bit in Amy's choice where she goes
• 1:08:43
  wacker and the old woman gets knocked out by a bit of wood?
• 1:08:45
  I think that's hilarious. I do not approve of Trevor
• 1:08:50
  Baxter being knocked out in his hallway by Mr. Sin.
• 1:08:53
  Right. Sorry.
• 1:08:56
  No, it's quality. It's the.
• 1:08:57
  Point. Right.
• 1:08:58
  Don't look at me like that. It's the point.
• 1:09:02
  Just just on the spin offs thing as well, Sergeant Quick is like
• 1:09:06
  a big character Jagger and Lightfoot, so he's he's in it.
• 1:09:11
  Sergeant from this. Yeah, it's the same actor.
• 1:09:13
  No, it's not. Yet it is.
• 1:09:16
  I didn't. Realise it was the same.
• 1:09:17
  He ain't saying lies like lies like he by by a Johnny.
• 1:09:20
  Is he like he is in this? No, He grows up you.
• 1:09:26
  Know to remember him from the series?
• 1:09:27
  He's a band and his racism and now he's going Lightfoot.
• 1:09:32
  That is a great cliffhanger though, of sin coming in with
• 1:09:34
  his nice. Aren't aren't feeling so much
• 1:09:37
  better when they walk slowly at you like and the threatening.
• 1:09:41
  But, and do you know what is really chilling?
• 1:09:43
  And I've mean this without any kind of sarcasm.
• 1:09:46
  Is there that's horrible. It's.
• 1:09:49
  An extra labour. Of.
• 1:09:50
  Like horror because they've explained with the pig, yes.
• 1:09:54
  You need to do as a kid in the in the playground is pretend
• 1:09:58
  you've got a knife going to make a kid a pig noise and you're
• 1:10:01
  suddenly Mr. Sin. Yeah.
• 1:10:03
  Absolutely terrifying. But don't throw knives at
• 1:10:05
  people. It's because it's so weird,
• 1:10:08
  isn't it? It it really sticks in your
• 1:10:10
  brain. Yeah, I mean, I feel season 14
• 1:10:13
  is telling kids to do a lot of terrible things, isn't it?
• 1:10:16
  Oh, they love it though. They.
• 1:10:17
  Love it. They love.
• 1:10:18
  It wives racism is is teaching them all terrible.
• 1:10:21
  Things you don't see it like big issues though, when when you're
• 1:10:24
  kids. It's not like it's not like how
• 1:10:26
  you view it now. Mary Whitehouse, dude.
• 1:10:29
  But you want it to be really bad.
• 1:10:30
  You want like loads of knives and him to count, I mean, and
• 1:10:33
  you you want that fight you do at the end of the day?
• 1:10:35
  He said when in the 80s, right when they're watching Ace, he
• 1:10:38
  wanted to blow things up and attack things with baseball.
• 1:10:41
  Ace was the cool character. When you were a kid, you wanted
• 1:10:43
  to be Ace. Yeah, when I was a kid, Ace
• 1:10:46
  stuck out as a cool companion because she does blow things up.
• 1:10:49
  Yeah. I've got to say, I want Mary
• 1:10:50
  Whitehouse's side here though, because you guys are clearly
• 1:10:53
  psychotic on back and watching this all.
• 1:10:54
  The Brigadier because he had a gun.
• 1:11:00
  Boom. I'll cut it there.
• 1:11:02
  Lots of laughter. That's a good way to win.
• 1:11:05
  Anyone need a drink or anything? I'm all right.
• 1:11:08
  I thought we were doing questions at the end of each
• 1:11:10
  one. I'll start.
• 1:11:11
  I'll start with questions. Yeah.
• 1:11:13
  Thanks. We I'll try and talk about
• 1:11:18
  talents in this next part, yeah. I wasn't even literally did not
• 1:11:21
  watch the screen there. A bit we did a bit.
• 1:11:24
  We're talking about the pacing, the action.
• 1:11:26
  We talked about Leela and Lightfoot.
• 1:11:28
  Australia. I will say I did bring all those
• 1:11:31
  things out. Thank you very much have.
• 1:11:34
  You got Have you got to the point of Jagger and Lightfoot
• 1:11:36
  where they bring back the squeal back?
• 1:11:38
  No. Oh yeah, I've seen that one.
• 1:11:40
  Oh, it's a terrible one. It's.
• 1:11:42
  In the theatre. It's beat for beat.
• 1:11:44
  Talons just remade. I can't like they they put Jago
• 1:11:49
  and like foot back in the dumb waiter for like 20 minutes.
• 1:11:52
  I listened to the Scorchy episode.
• 1:11:54
  No, I didn't listen to any more after that.
• 1:11:55
  And I do want it because I think.
• 1:11:57
  That's good. I got up about that series.
• 1:11:58
  It it peaks at the Scorchy's episode.
• 1:12:00
  That's the series with Patsy, I think.
• 1:12:04
  Jago and live at Patsy. OK, Mark, so if you could just
• 1:12:08
  introize and then say I believe there are some questions from
• 1:12:12
  our audience out there or something like that.
• 1:12:14
  OK, OK, hang on and let me just get the questions ready.
• 1:12:20
  Oh, OK. I've got another one from
• 1:12:21
  Fraser. Bloody hell.
• 1:12:22
  He loves a bit of attention, doesn't he?
• 1:12:25
  I do. I do like Fraser's questions.
• 1:12:27
  Oh, I know. I love Fraser with all my heart.
• 1:12:30
  I just love argue with him the most.
• 1:12:32
  Yeah. I love Argue with You second
• 1:12:34
  most. Because you're ugly.
• 1:13:02
  The hamster with a blunt penknife
• 1:13:14
  for doing quicker. Quicker, quicker, quicker 321.
• 1:13:20
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt penknife, the Doctor Who
• 1:13:24
  Coventry Podcast. I'm Mark and I'm joined today by
• 1:13:29
  Luke from Lost on Gallifrey Podcast.
• 1:13:32
  Hello. And Joe from this podcast.
• 1:13:38
  Hamster where the? Blunt penknife.
• 1:13:42
  And we are watching the talons of Wen Cheyenne.
• 1:13:45
  Which episode? We're on to episode 3 hasn't.
• 1:13:49
  Let up yet has it? No, no, it's still going well.
• 1:13:54
  But we've got some questions. We've got questions at the end
• 1:13:56
  of the last episode. Variance was becoming a Big
• 1:13:58
  Finish podcast. Yeah, no Big Finish this
• 1:14:00
  episode. OK, let's get back on track with
• 1:14:02
  some questions. Yes, yes.
• 1:14:05
  Well, attention Hog, Fraser Gregory has a question for us
• 1:14:09
  here. What is it about Louise Jamieson
• 1:14:12
  that makes her the best actor we've ever had in Doctor Who?
• 1:14:17
  That's more like a statement. Well, I I wouldn't have said
• 1:14:21
  that a while back, but watching a lot of these her stories
• 1:14:25
  again, yeah, I think she is one of the best actors from Doctor
• 1:14:31
  Who. She really does have, I don't
• 1:14:34
  know, something about when the way that she portrays Lila so
• 1:14:39
  consistently as the script allows throughout.
• 1:14:45
  Yeah, what? I don't know what it is about
• 1:14:46
  her, but she definitely is. She's definitely thinking about.
• 1:14:49
  Her because you? Think about like with Sarah
• 1:14:51
  Jane, Elizabeth Slayden is amazing, but it's a it's a
• 1:14:53
  different style of acting, a different kind.
• 1:14:57
  She's all charisma. Elizabeth Slayden, she's all
• 1:14:59
  personality. Yeah, there's so little
• 1:15:01
  character that she's got to be all personality, whereas Lee's
• 1:15:04
  got an interesting character. Maybe that's what it.
• 1:15:07
  Is and what Tom Baker said on that documentary about how like,
• 1:15:10
  because you know, Louis Jameson said.
• 1:15:12
  He was famously a grumpy asshole with her and she didn't like it
• 1:15:15
  at all, but he said no. He was intimidated by how good
• 1:15:18
  she was and how horrible she was, so he probably saw her
• 1:15:21
  coming along. I thought, well, I'm just going
• 1:15:23
  to feign disinterest because she's a better actor than me.
• 1:15:26
  Yeah, and in other stuff as well.
• 1:15:28
  She's brilliant. She brings, oh, I know we
• 1:15:30
  weren't going to say Big Finish, but in some of the Big Finish
• 1:15:33
  stuff, in her role in Survivors, the Big Finish series, she does
• 1:15:37
  some amazing scenes in that. Absolutely brilliant.
• 1:15:40
  So yes, I think she is. I agree.
• 1:15:44
  Yeah, I agree with Mark. Like, I don't think it's
• 1:15:46
  something I really registered the first time around, but the
• 1:15:48
  more you come back to it, she's got such a grasp of the
• 1:15:52
  character that it seems inseparable between Leela and
• 1:15:59
  Louise Jameson. That's how good of an actor she
• 1:16:02
  is that you just can't imagine anyone ever playing that part
• 1:16:06
  again apart from her. And yeah, it's like she keeps it
• 1:16:09
  up on Big Finish as well. And regardless of story quality,
• 1:16:14
  she's one of those Doctor Who actors.
• 1:16:17
  Yeah. Regardless of story quality,
• 1:16:19
  there's always something worth watching if Lee lives there.
• 1:16:23
  I think she says that she this sounds weird but she noticed
• 1:16:28
  like was it a dog? She said that she based the
• 1:16:31
  characters and no, no, wait, wait, wait that the dog was
• 1:16:33
  always like observing and always watching and figuring out
• 1:16:37
  situation. So like she was saying she's
• 1:16:40
  never stupid, but she's uneducated, so she always made
• 1:16:43
  her smart but uneducated. And that's not an easy mix.
• 1:16:47
  Because you know, Adric comes across as both very clever and
• 1:16:49
  utterly stupid and thick at the same time, you know?
• 1:16:54
  And you can see it in her eyes though, like constantly.
• 1:16:57
  She's learning and she's soaking it in.
• 1:17:00
  And you know, I'm assuming you've probably met her, but she
• 1:17:04
  is so nice as well. She's one of the nicest people
• 1:17:07
  I've met. She put on a charity Doctor Who
• 1:17:09
  event right in Brighton, where she managed to.
• 1:17:12
  Tom Baker was the big draw, but it was one of these small ones
• 1:17:15
  where you got to spend a lot of time with people.
• 1:17:17
  So you came along and you. It wasn't even that expensive, I
• 1:17:19
  don't think. And that the the list of actors.
• 1:17:22
  Wendy Padbury, Tom Baker, Sarah Sutton.
• 1:17:25
  And you just got to spend that whole day with them.
• 1:17:27
  It was the most incredible thing.
• 1:17:29
  She's lovely. Yeah, I did a There was a thing
• 1:17:31
  in Cardiff. It was coffee with Louise
• 1:17:33
  Jameson. There was like four of us and we
• 1:17:35
  just sat down and just had a chat for an hour.
• 1:17:42
  It was it was coffee and Jameson, but it was for a
• 1:17:44
  charity thing. We sat down and we just sat and
• 1:17:47
  she just talked about I just couldn't ask her anything and.
• 1:17:50
  She she loved those things. Like, I I don't think I could do
• 1:17:54
  it to myself. I'm I'm fine go to the
• 1:17:56
  convention, but I think I would find that too much.
• 1:18:00
  Well, you just sit. Let me just listen to her.
• 1:18:02
  It was just we went off to a bloody Where was it called that,
• 1:18:04
  that water place? Oh, Milton Abbey Mills or
• 1:18:09
  something. To signing with a neighbour's
• 1:18:12
  person we didn't even know they were going to turn.
• 1:18:13
  Up. Is this the one at the floor?
• 1:18:14
  What? Do you think?
• 1:18:15
  We were just sitting around hoping she was going to turn up.
• 1:18:17
  It was pretty. Just sitting.
• 1:18:18
  There with but you make them sound so good though.
• 1:18:21
  Yeah, I'd like to. Say, OK, well, my next question
• 1:18:25
  is, sorry, we've got off topic. Oh.
• 1:18:27
  Can I just say about? Isn't it weird with Leela the
• 1:18:30
  when they change their eye colour?
• 1:18:31
  There's no because they're made away, that was.
• 1:18:33
  For her, though. Yeah, but why do they make away
• 1:18:35
  contacts in the 1st place? They.
• 1:18:36
  Don't understand. Doesn't look like a savage, like
• 1:18:38
  dark and dark eyes and well, she's.
• 1:18:41
  She's But then I think I watched.
• 1:18:42
  I would have watched like Robots of Death or Talons as like one
• 1:18:45
  of the first leader stories. And then I think I watched like
• 1:18:48
  something much later on, like invasion time, and I was like,
• 1:18:50
  what? She looks completely different.
• 1:18:52
  She all her eyes are so blue though, aren't they looks?
• 1:18:55
  So different. She does look beautiful.
• 1:18:57
  And they sort of change her costume as well a little bit in
• 1:19:00
  The Invasion of Time. It's that she has a different
• 1:19:02
  sort of face of evil costume. I think that's a bit of an
• 1:19:04
  outdated thing, isn't it? That she had to have brown eyes.
• 1:19:07
  Yeah, well. I'll tell you what else is
• 1:19:09
  outdated is obviously I don't think you have Ross can listen
• 1:19:12
  to this Luke. So don't worry.
• 1:19:14
  Is she fancy a ball? Louise Jameson.
• 1:19:17
  Oh yeah. As a kid, yeah.
• 1:19:19
  As a kid, what about as Maddow? No, I mean, like as a kid, you
• 1:19:24
  know, go for the teenage years. But I really thought.
• 1:19:27
  It didn't make a difference. It genuinely doesn't make a
• 1:19:32
  difference. As long as their thighs are out.
• 1:19:36
  OK. Next question is on a lighter
• 1:19:38
  note from Joe Short. This is oh.
• 1:19:41
  Yeah, at the Brain of Spock, who's coming on to do it asleep.
• 1:19:44
  No more commentary. I mean that.
• 1:19:45
  Good luck. That is bold, isn't it?
• 1:19:48
  On a lighter note, which other duo apart from Jago and
• 1:19:51
  Lightford should have their own spin off series?
• 1:19:53
  And why is the only answer Miss Hawthorne and Benton?
• 1:19:58
  Oh, what a question. Right there.
• 1:20:01
  Well, we sort of said like, I think every there's so many,
• 1:20:03
  there's so many options. I know I'll go inside the
• 1:20:06
  episodes. I I.
• 1:20:08
  Would. Like some of my favourites and
• 1:20:12
  today like Jeff from the 11th Hour and the mocks of Balhoon.
• 1:20:18
  What those two together? That'll take some doing to bring
• 1:20:23
  them together. I was thinking of someone
• 1:20:25
  something like Bambera and Xiao Young.
• 1:20:28
  Well, yeah, I mean that I hopefully there'll be a return
• 1:20:30
  in Bambera's own Big Finish series.
• 1:20:33
  It's got to be so well, I think it's something really obscure.
• 1:20:35
  I know, Yeah, that's not like. Like Megan, Meg Seeley and Sam
• 1:20:39
  Seeley, you know. I have a.
• 1:20:41
  Very Sprint off Show Who else? Oh.
• 1:20:45
  It's such a hard question spot because how many times do you
• 1:20:47
  watch things like especially on podcast and stuff and you go oh
• 1:20:50
  a big finish to do a spin off for that sort of thing that it
• 1:20:53
  is. And then they do.
• 1:20:54
  Like, I think this Hawthorne is up there.
• 1:20:56
  I mean, she should do The White Witcher, Devil's End.
• 1:20:58
  I mean, let's not talk about that DVD.
• 1:21:03
  Release. Let's let's let that Stew, shall
• 1:21:07
  we, throughout the episode. And I'll come back to it at the
• 1:21:08
  end. OK.
• 1:21:10
  Yeah, I've got some good answers.
• 1:21:11
  All right, you've got 25 minutes to think about it.
• 1:21:13
  Let's go I4. Oh really?
• 1:21:16
  I forgot we were watching are. You.
• 1:21:19
  Ready. Yeah, Press.
• 1:21:22
  OK. OK.
• 1:21:24
  Sorry, I. Was waiting there quite quickly
• 1:21:26
  then, didn't I? Sometimes you can't go in
• 1:21:29
  quickly. Right.
• 1:21:30
  Mr. Sin is advancing on Leela. And yeah, is this where Leela
• 1:21:33
  goes to the window? Oh.
• 1:21:34
  God and fabulous is it slow motion.
• 1:21:37
  Yeah. Yeah, a little bit, I think.
• 1:21:40
  David and Maloney loved a bit of slow motion.
• 1:21:42
  We haven't even mentioned David. Yeah, and freeze frame.
• 1:21:45
  Yeah, he is the best. What's his best freeze frame?
• 1:21:49
  Is it Sarah going down there? Oh, it's.
• 1:21:50
  Sarah. Genesis Hanstar.
• 1:21:53
  Absolutely. That was so shocking.
• 1:21:54
  What a Cliff. I go, Oh my God.
• 1:21:57
  You could have done this. You could have Mr. Singh come
• 1:21:58
  through, Leela, jump through, freeze frame.
• 1:22:00
  And that's the end of the episode, just halfway through
• 1:22:02
  the window, right? Why?
• 1:22:06
  Didn't they do? That wait.
• 1:22:08
  Freeze frame just do. You just need to bring them
• 1:22:10
  back. Or even when Lila's attacked by
• 1:22:12
  the rat, it could be like, sort of.
• 1:22:14
  She could be like screaming, like writhing around and then
• 1:22:16
  you freeze frame. That would be cool.
• 1:22:18
  We. Can't see right now.
• 1:22:19
  Martha is a fact. Free enacting Lila arriving
• 1:22:22
  around with a rat. No.
• 1:22:23
  Freeze frame just makes it so much more dramatic.
• 1:22:27
  I like the fact as well that she's not stupid enough to take
• 1:22:31
  him on. She's like, no, I'm out of it.
• 1:22:34
  Yeah. A knife in his neck, I mean.
• 1:22:37
  But do you know what they like a bit of that in?
• 1:22:39
  So he's. Got a knife in his neck and in
• 1:22:41
  Robots of Death they were stabbing bloody needles in the
• 1:22:44
  robot's heads. I.
• 1:22:44
  Suppose he's got a knife, but she could just sort of pick him
• 1:22:47
  up and do what they do at the end of the story and just sort
• 1:22:49
  of spin him around and just, oh, I.
• 1:22:51
  Love. She could have done that.
• 1:22:53
  He surprisingly lived during those scenes.
• 1:22:56
  Yeah. Oh dear, Oh dear.
• 1:23:00
  Surprised. Does anyone own?
• 1:23:01
  Because they had obviously the the costume, the deep royal war,
• 1:23:04
  but there was a an actual doll made-up as well.
• 1:23:07
  Imagine if that's just in someone's abandoned loft
• 1:23:10
  somewhere. Someone still got that?
• 1:23:12
  Do you know what you said this was?
• 1:23:14
  X-Files was his most sinister roles.
• 1:23:16
  There we go. There's the window.
• 1:23:18
  Oh. No.
• 1:23:19
  You ever seen him as the Umpa Lumpas in Willy Wonka's
• 1:23:22
  Chocolate Factory? Oh.
• 1:23:24
  Yes. So sinister.
• 1:23:26
  Deep Roy Yeah, yeah. Yeah, honestly, OK.
• 1:23:30
  God dust. Look.
• 1:23:31
  It's so Moody, isn't it? Look at the light and
• 1:23:33
  everything. I mean, he's still got the knife
• 1:23:35
  in his neck. For God's sake, he he just
• 1:23:40
  couldn't have been bothered as much as we are now about knives
• 1:23:43
  and knife crime and stuff like that knife.
• 1:23:46
  No, they would. They wouldn't touch it nowadays
• 1:23:48
  would they? But Classic who's got a lot of
• 1:23:49
  knife, knife, plate going on? Actually, do you know what if it
• 1:23:52
  was Barry Letts? He would not have any of this.
• 1:23:54
  This Barry Letts would not make this programme.
• 1:23:58
  He wouldn't. He wouldn't.
• 1:23:59
  He wouldn't have any of that violent stuff.
• 1:24:01
  Yeah, no, that's true. There was.
• 1:24:03
  Some violence and not in not eaten up by a plastic.
• 1:24:06
  Chair That's different. That's more sort of.
• 1:24:07
  Fantasy there's there's something more unsettling with
• 1:24:10
  the Hinchcliffe. Violence isn't there?
• 1:24:11
  Or just a horror in general. It's always possession or it's
• 1:24:16
  the stuff that gets under your skin.
• 1:24:17
  It's visceral. It's violent.
• 1:24:19
  Yeah, Barry Letts said. He the at the beginning of
• 1:24:21
  Android Invasion, whether you the guy jumps off the into the
• 1:24:25
  quarry, Barry Letts said. In his day, he wouldn't have
• 1:24:28
  done that as producer. He had an alt on man go right
• 1:24:32
  down the bottom of a quarry and then get up and come back up
• 1:24:34
  again. I used to find that so scary.
• 1:24:36
  It's really. Scary, isn't it?
• 1:24:38
  Because he seems indestructible. Because he gets up straight
• 1:24:41
  away. That's what's scary about the.
• 1:24:43
  Best part of that? Oh, look at life.
• 1:24:46
  Look at the thing on life. What's that?
• 1:24:47
  I love the set of this I I want to live in like this house.
• 1:24:50
  I want to live in this you. Know what they do living rooms
• 1:24:55
  and things like that so well do you remember what's that Vivian
• 1:24:58
  face house in Stones to Bluffs. Yeah they do sort of domestic
• 1:25:01
  settings. The less said about canine and
• 1:25:05
  company the better. I mean even the even the
• 1:25:10
  cabinet. The cabinet is lovely, isn't it?
• 1:25:14
  I mean, I wouldn't have it in my house, but it fits in that
• 1:25:17
  house. Do you?
• 1:25:18
  Know what the funniest line in this episode is, is where he
• 1:25:21
  goes. Well, that gun might go off in
• 1:25:23
  your face, he goes. Impossible.
• 1:25:24
  It was made in Birmingham. Oh, look, see, Lila's off on her
• 1:25:31
  own now. Yeah, well, Lila and the Doctor
• 1:25:33
  have like, very separate stories for this, don't they?
• 1:25:36
  Yeah, well, and then they go to the theatre together later.
• 1:25:39
  Don't know which is lovely. That's that's my favorite bit,
• 1:25:42
  Episode 4 with all the theatres. Well, if you like a magic show,
• 1:25:44
  you get a magic show in news. Exactly.
• 1:25:46
  I love it. I'm just because it's a magic
• 1:25:49
  show, but with the the showdown between the Doctor and Chang at
• 1:25:52
  the same time. Brilliant stuff.
• 1:25:55
  And I love it when she's single and she goes, do you have to
• 1:25:57
  give the responses? It's not compulsory, but there
• 1:26:03
  are there's a lot of scenes with no dialogue in this as well and
• 1:26:08
  that takes a good director to keep the interest up.
• 1:26:10
  So like, oh, look at this. Was this kind of David Maloney's
• 1:26:16
  last it? Was as well.
• 1:26:18
  Well, you know, he skipped off to Blake 7 after this to produce
• 1:26:20
  it, so. Whole lot.
• 1:26:25
  I think it's worth noting that Blake, 7, regularly drew in
• 1:26:28
  eight to 10 million viewers a week, even if it's not too
• 1:26:30
  artist. Oh, I know, I know.
• 1:26:33
  I got most of the E fans do really like like 7.
• 1:26:36
  It's. Just not.
• 1:26:37
  I love it. Server Land.
• 1:26:39
  Oh my God, they were mine. I felt them die.
• 1:26:44
  Sorry. She's.
• 1:26:46
  Melodracking. So it's me.
• 1:26:49
  Is David Maloney the best director there?
• 1:26:51
  Because obviously there's you've got your Douglas Calm Fields,
• 1:26:53
  you've got your Graham Harper's. Definitely up there.
• 1:26:57
  Those are like the top three. And then you've got your
• 1:26:59
  Pennant, Roberts. Oh.
• 1:27:03
  Peter Grim Wade. Grim Wade's great.
• 1:27:05
  I think Grim Wade's good. Graham Harper.
• 1:27:08
  Yeah, Yeah, Graham Harper's Definitely.
• 1:27:09
  Alan Wearing. Alan Wearing what?
• 1:27:11
  Did he do he's? A great show and Survival and
• 1:27:14
  Ghost Light. They're terrifically directed.
• 1:27:18
  Yeah, they're they're good. They're not up there with the
• 1:27:21
  other ones, though. You're both mad.
• 1:27:24
  Who's the really bad one that did like Frontier in space and?
• 1:27:28
  Oh, Paul Bernard. Yeah, he loved a zoo.
• 1:27:30
  Are. You kidding?
• 1:27:32
  Cameras he loved. There's nothing wrong with
• 1:27:33
  frontier in space. Thank you very much.
• 1:27:35
  Did you say in the Daleks as well?
• 1:27:37
  Oh, who directed that? The Daleks?
• 1:27:42
  He did David Darts and Frontier in space, yeah.
• 1:27:44
  And Time Monster. And time.
• 1:27:46
  He's terrible direct. But he learns a lot from Day of
• 1:27:48
  the Darlings. I.
• 1:27:50
  Love Day of the Darlings? That's coming out next week.
• 1:27:52
  I think it's awful. You stick to Asylum and a doll,
• 1:27:58
  all right. Oh, what an episode.
• 1:28:02
  Asylum and a doll eggs. Oh my God, where do you want to
• 1:28:05
  start? Are we going to do this right
• 1:28:07
  now? OK.
• 1:28:09
  Where do you get the eggs? I love.
• 1:28:10
  I love. Talk about the split up of Amy
• 1:28:12
  and Rory between seasons. That's dealt with in about 10
• 1:28:15
  minutes in that. Episode.
• 1:28:15
  Yeah, in the most, in the most fantastic way.
• 1:28:19
  You can't just fix everything. Like you fix your bow tie and
• 1:28:22
  then there he is, straightening his bow ties.
• 1:28:24
  Makeup Fantastic. My only problem, life does not
• 1:28:27
  work like that but the. Only problem I have, it's not
• 1:28:29
  life, it's Doctor Who. There just wasn't every dialect
• 1:28:32
  ever. That is my problem with it and
• 1:28:35
  that was the promotion of it if. You said.
• 1:28:37
  Put that in my head, I would have.
• 1:28:38
  Explained it and turn up the contrast an awful lot.
• 1:28:40
  You can see every. Dialect.
• 1:28:42
  No, I know that was that was the only day they left that, but
• 1:28:44
  then you sort of get it in magician.
• 1:28:46
  'S Daleks. Excuse me.
• 1:28:48
  What a crock of shit. The Daleks have a government
• 1:28:52
  now, do they Well? I don't see the issue issue with
• 1:28:54
  that. It's it's something it's it's
• 1:28:57
  it's not OK, it's it's not the best idea ever, but at least
• 1:29:00
  it's something new. It's not just like.
• 1:29:02
  Oh, take that as a concession. Thank you very much.
• 1:29:04
  It's not. Just more more Daleks, is it?
• 1:29:06
  Now look, the Doctor and Lightfoot are drawn on a
• 1:29:08
  tablecloth. We're going to have some lovely
• 1:29:12
  footage in a minute of them on a boat going up the Thames.
• 1:29:15
  It's very nice, he goes. And then oh, and then we'll see.
• 1:29:22
  You know, I mean, the Tom Baker's costume, it's it's
• 1:29:25
  amazing. But I wouldn't have wanted it to
• 1:29:27
  go any further than this episode.
• 1:29:30
  Yeah, I really like it as a one off, but a.
• 1:29:32
  Lot of layers, isn't it? It must be quite worn.
• 1:29:34
  I've just noticed his gloves never knows.
• 1:29:37
  And I feel like Lightford's going for sort of a Time Lord
• 1:29:39
  style collar there is. Actually.
• 1:29:43
  Is that a Ming vase I saw there? Yeah.
• 1:29:46
  We watched a clip the other day of Mr. Blobby going to Alan Carr
• 1:29:49
  show right. And he goes lobby.
• 1:29:52
  No, watch out for my Ming balls And he smashes at the bases.
• 1:29:57
  I'm so sorry. I need to shut up.
• 1:30:00
  Let's talk. Here you go, like for a blobby.
• 1:30:07
  So you sing that song blobby Mr. Blobby.
• 1:30:11
  Let's get back on track. I think if Blobby had come along
• 1:30:15
  instead of her also, it would have been scarier.
• 1:30:17
  They're. Both blobs.
• 1:30:21
  Good, good episode. Creature from the Pit.
• 1:30:25
  I know. Don't be blobbist, honestly.
• 1:30:27
  Oh, so OK, so this is the sequence.
• 1:30:29
  With. Oh, look at that.
• 1:30:31
  Where she's going, Tardax, I want to put me plates up for a
• 1:30:34
  few hours. Savvy.
• 1:30:36
  It's. Filmed on location, but it looks
• 1:30:38
  so Victorian. Yeah.
• 1:30:40
  I know, but my point is this is a hooker in Doctor Who.
• 1:30:44
  Yeah, well, Amy ponds a kiss a gram.
• 1:30:47
  It is fairly explicit. We basically get a hook.
• 1:30:50
  She's like. A hookah.
• 1:30:51
  She's just done a nice work and it's first thing in the morning.
• 1:30:54
  Yeah, but you're not watching kids in the 70s going by the way
• 1:30:57
  kids. She's just done a lot.
• 1:30:58
  You're not saying that are. You.
• 1:31:00
  I think it's fairly explicit that she is a prostitute.
• 1:31:03
  And that's the whole point. That's the Jack the Ripper
• 1:31:05
  thing, isn't it? Yeah, it's great.
• 1:31:08
  And he's so sinister here. Yeah.
• 1:31:11
  I'm not his outfit. Chang's outfit's amazing.
• 1:31:13
  Yes, Becca Bo Chang has other I'm not doing the accent
• 1:31:18
  cancelled. It's hard not to, though.
• 1:31:20
  The lines are so quotable. But it's worth saying that if a
• 1:31:24
  Chinese person was saying those lines, there would be a
• 1:31:27
  similarity in the accent. Like.
• 1:31:29
  I've dated a Chinese person and they sounded very like Chang in
• 1:31:33
  this story, although admittedly he did ask me to turn this off
• 1:31:40
  before the end of episode one, which I dutifully did.
• 1:31:46
  Did you know the story about the sports car?
• 1:31:49
  Oh, didn't he put a big tarpaulin over something?
• 1:31:52
  Pulling and a load of straw. Yeah, you know that though, you
• 1:31:55
  can't, you just can't Unsee it. But you know, it's a car there.
• 1:31:58
  Apparently everyone on the street was taking pictures
• 1:32:00
  because they thought this car was so ugly.
• 1:32:02
  They they were waiting for them to come back, saying, look what
• 1:32:05
  the BBC did to your car while you're away.
• 1:32:10
  Oh dear, OK, so. Oh, I see.
• 1:32:13
  You're just following the prosi now, isn't she?
• 1:32:15
  And this is. How does he not see it there?
• 1:32:17
  Come on. This is still all the real
• 1:32:18
  theatre stuff. Oh my God, what are these two?
• 1:32:21
  They can have a spin off these two cleaning ladies.
• 1:32:24
  The cleaning ladies and ghoul. Charlie's Angels Victorian.
• 1:32:31
  I don't. I don't want anyone, girl.
• 1:32:33
  I'm sorry. Don't.
• 1:32:34
  Give me finished ideas all. Right.
• 1:32:37
  And they work at Lyford's house, do the cleaning and stuff for
• 1:32:41
  him, and then he brings them in. He's like.
• 1:32:42
  Oh yeah. Come on, ladies.
• 1:32:43
  Ladies, I've got a job for you. I've thought of like the most
• 1:32:47
  boring spin off we could have. We could have Padma Samavar and
• 1:32:51
  Richard E grants great intelligence, just very slowly.
• 1:32:58
  What about universal domination? Watch out, Ian Levine's creating
• 1:33:02
  that as we speak. He did do a bit of extra, didn't
• 1:33:05
  he? Or Padma, Son of a for the
• 1:33:07
  downtime. Yeah, Sylvester McCoy and Padma
• 1:33:10
  son of about playing chess together.
• 1:33:12
  Evil for for a lot of time. And didn't Sylvester McCoy say,
• 1:33:15
  like, yeah, I shouldn't have taken that job?
• 1:33:18
  Yeah, it was like I've made a mistake now.
• 1:33:21
  People do, you know. OK, so now Lila's taking the
• 1:33:24
  place of the prostitute, hasn't she?
• 1:33:26
  Yeah, and he goes, this one's got muscles like a horse.
• 1:33:30
  See, this is where the plot will have to change if it was the
• 1:33:32
  first Doctor and Stephen. Yeah, you could.
• 1:33:34
  Just be You could just be a red boy.
• 1:33:39
  Steven could be a Red Boy. Boy could he be.
• 1:33:42
  Jeez. OK, here we go.
• 1:33:44
  Down the WE. Can sort of imagine it with Six
• 1:33:47
  and Perry but it going but it but it going far too nasty.
• 1:33:53
  How we have 7A mil. Perry would be like gags and put
• 1:33:56
  in that. Basket and Magnus Grill would
• 1:34:01
  want to fuck her like everybody. Else, yeah, yeah, would.
• 1:34:04
  Be like, oh, Cheryl's Jekyll over again.
• 1:34:06
  Oh, we go. She's a lovely fleshy beast.
• 1:34:08
  Get her into my machine quickly, Trevor Baxter says.
• 1:34:13
  That it was absolutely freezing on like.
• 1:34:16
  It looks quite cold, doesn't it? The Steep is ejecting from their
• 1:34:19
  mouths. Hi, we have we talked a lot
• 1:34:24
  about Louis Jameson, I was going to say about Tom Baker.
• 1:34:26
  Like, is this his most charismatic turn?
• 1:34:30
  No. Oh, what is?
• 1:34:35
  I think this is one of his best characterized terms like on the
• 1:34:39
  page. I'm here, I think I'm going to
• 1:34:41
  say Androids of Tara. Oh, yes.
• 1:34:44
  Oh. OK.
• 1:34:46
  Yeah. No, I'm.
• 1:34:47
  I'm listening. God, that's like I actually.
• 1:34:49
  No. Well, yeah.
• 1:34:50
  I actually thought you threw up in your mouth then.
• 1:34:54
  Why Android's Ataro? Because he's so much fun in
• 1:34:57
  that, but it's like a perfect balance of adventure.
• 1:35:00
  Like he channels a bit of trout and and it's that bohemian that
• 1:35:04
  everyone thinks he is and very fun.
• 1:35:07
  It's just a bit serious in this isn't it?
• 1:35:09
  Which suits the story fine, but I wouldn't.
• 1:35:11
  And and it's fantastic, but it's not one of his most charismatic.
• 1:35:14
  It does get it's some of his wittiest lies.
• 1:35:16
  Now. The Count's just offered me the
• 1:35:18
  throne. I love that.
• 1:35:19
  I think that's just before he gets too over the top and then
• 1:35:22
  he goes all season 18, I don't think we ever get.
• 1:35:25
  Maybe that's right. Season 8 No, it's silly in
• 1:35:28
  season 17 and then season 18 is completely different as you.
• 1:35:31
  Know he's silly in season 817. Well, yeah, I'm not a fan of all
• 1:35:34
  of the it's a bit over. You're Dave?
• 1:35:36
  Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's the way it
• 1:35:39
  gets right isn't it? But I I think he gets a bad Rep
• 1:35:41
  in series 18, though. People just say always he's he's
• 1:35:44
  like all sad and grumbling he's getting there.
• 1:35:47
  If you watch his effort that if you watch like Full Circle and
• 1:35:50
  State of Decay and stuff, he's not and he looks a bit I'll
• 1:35:54
  because he was ill. Wasn't.
• 1:35:55
  I think maybe, I don't know. There's something.
• 1:35:58
  Yeah, very. He's very different in season
• 1:36:00
  18. He's not, but maybe it's because
• 1:36:01
  you're thinking of the behind the scenes stuff that he's not
• 1:36:03
  getting on with and. He was sick.
• 1:36:05
  Maybe that affects it. Yeah.
• 1:36:06
  No, he's he's. Still funny.
• 1:36:08
  I don't think. It's like he's not funny in
• 1:36:10
  season 18, I don't think. Was it his scarf killed Stimson?
• 1:36:16
  Arrest the scarf, then. That's funny.
• 1:36:18
  There's a different tone. No, there's a different tone.
• 1:36:20
  That's. Not There is a different tone,
• 1:36:21
  but I don't think like he gets his reputation of being really
• 1:36:23
  dour. I think in lagopolos.
• 1:36:25
  He is but. That's fair, isn't it?
• 1:36:27
  I think the Lagopolos is like put on the entire series, so
• 1:36:31
  it's. But yeah, you're probably right.
• 1:36:34
  I think after Tara is the point when he turns.
• 1:36:37
  He is beautifully characterized here though, and he's given so
• 1:36:41
  much to do and lots of witty lines.
• 1:36:43
  Like he's eating it up, isn't he?
• 1:36:45
  Yeah, I think my favorite Tom Baker is Series 12.
• 1:36:48
  Tom Baker though, I I just love season 12 so much.
• 1:36:53
  He's kind of dark. I think he's quite serious in
• 1:36:55
  that season. He is, but he's so alien, isn't
• 1:36:59
  he? And and you get that freshness.
• 1:37:01
  I think I do really like Doctor's first seasons because
• 1:37:05
  they're so fresh and raw and they haven't quite figured out
• 1:37:08
  yet. I think it's.
• 1:37:09
  Called his first season and I have no one rates it except me.
• 1:37:12
  I love him. I think it.
• 1:37:13
  Benefits the character because the character doesn't really
• 1:37:17
  know what they're doing that much or like anyway, like the
• 1:37:20
  the Trouton version of the character.
• 1:37:22
  That's just go around the universe so when the app.
• 1:37:25
  Is everything, isn't it? You try everything and then.
• 1:37:27
  Yeah, yeah. I wonder, So after this they had
• 1:37:30
  the season break. I think they had six weeks off.
• 1:37:33
  I was reading and Tom Baker did celebrity squares or something
• 1:37:37
  and apparently he was quoted as saying I'm going to do one more
• 1:37:39
  series of Doctor Who. Well, he friends to quit pretty
• 1:37:43
  much every season. So maybe I think this is where
• 1:37:46
  after this he got yeah, it's somewhere in season 15.
• 1:37:49
  I just something just go something is different.
• 1:37:51
  He's very consistent right up until this point.
• 1:37:54
  Yeah, you know, that's right. Around that time, maybe it was
• 1:37:57
  Graham Willie, I don't know. There's something all with.
• 1:37:59
  Well, I think it's got to be the producer, hasn't it?
• 1:38:01
  Yeah, that's got to be a big offence.
• 1:38:03
  May I respectfully disagree because I feel that Season 16 is
• 1:38:08
  probably his most confident year.
• 1:38:11
  I think he is utterly underrated in 17 and he still is playing
• 1:38:16
  the show isn't he's? Apart from a few moments and I
• 1:38:19
  can point to every doctor that has a few moments.
• 1:38:21
  Well, I think that's that's what people get wrong about 3017, is
• 1:38:26
  that they think he's just a big comic.
• 1:38:28
  He's taken that very seriously when actually in the comedy.
• 1:38:31
  Out certain few moments that are actually really bad, and I mean
• 1:38:36
  I still quite like them. I don't.
• 1:38:37
  The only one I don't like is the Nightmare of Eden bit.
• 1:38:41
  When he's yeah, that that is. But then it's.
• 1:38:43
  Followed up at that point, That's when it's all.
• 1:38:44
  Going it's completely followed up with a bit where he says go
• 1:38:46
  away to Tris and he's. I know.
• 1:38:49
  Yeah, that's amazing scene. Oh, sorry.
• 1:38:52
  Back to the Prozzi. Take your hands off on me.
• 1:38:56
  I'm a lady. What you doing here?
• 1:39:01
  I'm sorry, I haven't got to do all the accents.
• 1:39:05
  I am. I'm genuinely impressed by how
• 1:39:07
  much you can quote Not just the talents, just of any Doctor Who
• 1:39:10
  story. It is unbelievable.
• 1:39:12
  Like watching this show? I know me.
• 1:39:13
  Me too, though. But like I I wouldn't be able to
• 1:39:16
  quote it like you do. I couldn't do so much, and
• 1:39:18
  there's certain stories that I know well but not.
• 1:39:21
  Yeah, any like, you know. Every story, yeah.
• 1:39:24
  Can I tell you one, one quote that's going to impress you?
• 1:39:27
  Really someone who's legendary legend domain has baffled and
• 1:39:33
  bewitched all the crown heads of Europe here to bewitch and
• 1:39:38
  baffle Mr. Lee, said Chuck. I don't got that wrong actually.
• 1:39:46
  I would never know. I think some people just come
• 1:39:50
  for the quotes, you know, not not the insightful commentary.
• 1:39:53
  Diane Man with Mark, like the ones of I really like or I've
• 1:39:57
  watched thousands of times. I I would know the small quotes
• 1:39:59
  and stuff, but not everything. He does.
• 1:40:04
  He's just too shy to do it all the time.
• 1:40:06
  I don't know. There's.
• 1:40:07
  Just not every story. You can quote Battlefield back
• 1:40:10
  to front. Yeah, I've watched that a lot.
• 1:40:11
  Oh. OK, sorry, here's Lila being
• 1:40:13
  attacked by the rat, and this is the one time Louise Jameson said
• 1:40:16
  she'd let herself scream as Lila because she's being chewed by a
• 1:40:20
  giant rat. I think that's fair.
• 1:40:22
  I think that's fair. I think Ace only screamed once
• 1:40:28
  as well. When did Ace?
• 1:40:30
  Scream, she screamed when Kane put his hands to her face in
• 1:40:34
  Dragonfly and she goes not like and really screams yeah.
• 1:40:39
  It's not one I've watched very many times.
• 1:40:42
  Oh my God, Perry being named by a rat.
• 1:40:45
  Oh gosh, she's been. Screaming her head off, wouldn't
• 1:40:47
  she? Oh, she'd be running down those
• 1:40:49
  at the end of the Echo in like all these.
• 1:40:51
  All these throughout all of. The sewers echo in with her
• 1:40:56
  voice, I think. It's worth noting as well that
• 1:41:00
  Michael Spice, even if he's not the best character and he's
• 1:41:03
  given a great performance. He's got one of.
• 1:41:04
  The Mobius as well. Did you do the voice, Mobius?
• 1:41:08
  Oh, now you say it, you can hear it.
• 1:41:10
  He's but not Spartans has more life than I.
• 1:41:13
  Exactly. Great.
• 1:41:16
  But like I, I completely believe in the character.
• 1:41:20
  Yeah. The reveal of the make up is the
• 1:41:23
  same twist that Robert Holm pulls off in case of Andrews on
• 1:41:25
  issue. He waits for the last episode
• 1:41:27
  and then the mask gets torn off and you see this hideous
• 1:41:31
  disfigurement underneath. I think the only thing I don't
• 1:41:34
  believe is there is this massive butcher of Brisbane, but I think
• 1:41:39
  that's because in this story is a weakened, like suffering
• 1:41:45
  person but like I don't look at him and think oh he wiped out
• 1:41:49
  like Brisbane. Brisbane.
• 1:41:53
  What? Did Brisbane do wrong?
• 1:41:57
  I don't know. Because what is it?
• 1:42:00
  He should have told me. That's what he wanted.
• 1:42:03
  I could have shown him Brisbane. Do you think we're going to get
• 1:42:06
  a reference to Vanessa in Power of the Doctor?
• 1:42:09
  Oh, yes. Yeah, I think.
• 1:42:12
  So do you remember that line? Tom Baker says.
• 1:42:14
  And Lacopoulos, Have you seen her?
• 1:42:16
  Well, a little of her. Oh.
• 1:42:20
  This this, to me is a really iconic cliffhanger.
• 1:42:24
  Well, and it's quite dark on my screen so I can't really see the
• 1:42:27
  rat in too much detail. I think it's just so when it
• 1:42:32
  just really sticks out. You've got Lila running around
• 1:42:34
  the corner, a giant rat and the Doctor with a gun, a big fat
• 1:42:39
  elephant gun, just pointing it in that way.
• 1:42:41
  And you think, Christ, it's Part 3.
• 1:42:43
  There's three more to come. Well, look, to make out for the
• 1:42:47
  lack of questions in episode 2. I'm now going to throw a few
• 1:42:50
  more at you in episode 3 if that's OK.
• 1:42:52
  But before we do that, gentlemen, if you would care to
• 1:42:56
  enlighten us with your pairings, spin off please.
• 1:43:00
  I was in the first half of this commentary.
• 1:43:02
  It's been wearing in the back of my mind.
• 1:43:04
  I've just been stressing about it the whole podcast, trying to
• 1:43:08
  come up with a good answer. And your answer is I.
• 1:43:12
  My answer is the Maitland children.
• 1:43:17
  Just black, Just just blackmailing companions to take
• 1:43:20
  them on trips through the universe.
• 1:43:22
  Are you talking about Angie and? I I am talking about, and we can
• 1:43:26
  bring back Warwick Davis's porridge.
• 1:43:30
  He can have his little weird thing going on.
• 1:43:33
  They can blackmail. Just do whatever they bump into
• 1:43:36
  to take the. I don't.
• 1:43:37
  Think you're going to bet at that answer, but off you.
• 1:43:39
  Go. I can't think of any.
• 1:43:40
  I can't think. What about the Wi-Fi family?
• 1:43:43
  And. Everywhere they go, the Wi-Fi
• 1:43:48
  goes down. I would, I would.
• 1:43:50
  I mean I I hate that, but it is quite funny.
• 1:43:52
  But if they came back for a scene in In Power of the Doctor,
• 1:43:57
  I think I would really give to all the the balls for that, like
• 1:44:02
  he should do it. When they had that random off
• 1:44:04
  from either, the darlings turn up.
• 1:44:06
  It was in Woman Who Fell to Earth.
• 1:44:07
  I didn't. Feel like?
• 1:44:08
  That was about. Awful, that was.
• 1:44:10
  That was him. It's.
• 1:44:11
  Lovely. Just a nice touch.
• 1:44:14
  OK fellas, I've got another question for you.
• 1:44:16
  I got marks. I'll give a bit of a spin off.
• 1:44:18
  Oh no, I. Can't think of anyone.
• 1:44:20
  Let's. Say he's brightly saddled.
• 1:44:23
  I I was quite like more stories of Bill and Capaldi at the
• 1:44:28
  university, Like as a serious one, that would be.
• 1:44:31
  Yeah. Awesome.
• 1:44:32
  Blow over that because. That setting feels like there
• 1:44:34
  was so much to mind that we didn't get.
• 1:44:36
  Yeah, can we just have Missy in there as like?
• 1:44:38
  Just yes. Yeah.
• 1:44:39
  Just occasionally. Evil advisor.
• 1:44:41
  Bit like discovery. Let's just have her there.
• 1:44:44
  Like threatening to kill everybody all the time.
• 1:44:47
  Any answers? Not at the moment.
• 1:44:49
  I'll keep thinking. How disappointing.
• 1:44:53
  OK, well Joe Shaw also asks if this had been in the JNT era,
• 1:44:58
  would he have stunt casted the Two Ronnies as Jay Go and
• 1:45:01
  Lightfoot? I could.
• 1:45:04
  I could see it, yeah, I think. It would be well overlit, it
• 1:45:10
  would be. The production values would not
• 1:45:12
  be amazing. I see so.
• 1:45:15
  That's not overlit. I think the issue with it, it
• 1:45:19
  would be a lot more vulgar. Like Robert Holmes, this whole
• 1:45:23
  production team know how to tread that line so that it's
• 1:45:28
  Doctor Who, whereas, as we've been saying, you would get Perry
• 1:45:30
  in a bikini. Two doctors, wouldn't it?
• 1:45:33
  Yeah. Some other location somewhere
• 1:45:36
  and do it all on location. Bright light.
• 1:45:39
  Yeah. Stunt casting like, yeah, Jacob
• 1:45:41
  and Lightfoot would be. I don't know.
• 1:45:44
  Yeah, and we've been saying how they're like, good it is.
• 1:45:46
  The leader's got agency and the doctor's got his own part.
• 1:45:49
  He just have, like Turlow walking around the sewers,
• 1:45:52
  looking bored. Or.
• 1:45:54
  Or that you'd have the 6th Doctor just sort of shouting at
• 1:45:56
  like for and not really listening to anyone and going up
• 1:46:00
  against the police and stuff and just not being.
• 1:46:03
  I do wonder though if JNC as a producer from a minority group
• 1:46:07
  will be more tuned into the racism and say this is not
• 1:46:10
  acceptable. Well, interesting I think first
• 1:46:15
  did was this the first story that JNT worked those unit
• 1:46:19
  production? Yeah, but he wasn't involved.
• 1:46:22
  In the creative. No, not the creative stuff, but
• 1:46:24
  he did work on this. Oh, he could make.
• 1:46:26
  Television One. Yeah, I also don't want to make
• 1:46:29
  it clear that it's not. JNT would suddenly do all this
• 1:46:32
  stuff to to the towns of which I just mean that whole like
• 1:46:36
  production too. Yeah, if it was under.
• 1:46:38
  The 80s. It just if it was under Andrew
• 1:46:40
  Cartmell, the Doctor would know exactly who Magnus Grill was and
• 1:46:44
  they will have fought in the 51st century and and that would
• 1:46:48
  sort of take a bit away from it as well.
• 1:46:50
  I I think, you know, you mentioned before that it, it
• 1:46:53
  could have been the master, it wasn't early.
• 1:46:55
  That would make this story worse, because so much of it is
• 1:46:59
  original or feels original anyway.
• 1:47:01
  That you say original. It's cherry picked from
• 1:47:03
  everything. Else.
• 1:47:04
  Well, I know, I know. But I mean doctor.
• 1:47:06
  Who doctor? Who?
• 1:47:07
  Yeah, I think having the master in it, it might be a good master
• 1:47:10
  story, but I don't think it'd stand out so much.
• 1:47:13
  Yeah. And well, also in the 80s, I've
• 1:47:18
  completely forgotten what I was going to say.
• 1:47:20
  Carry on. I'm so sorry.
• 1:47:22
  I was going to say something about the 80s again.
• 1:47:24
  Yeah. Yeah, In the 80s.
• 1:47:25
  We don't really do that in terms of historical stuff, what you've
• 1:47:28
  got like Mark of the Rani. Black orchid.
• 1:47:30
  Black orchid, The visitation. They're OK, but I can't really
• 1:47:34
  see them doing a very convincing Victorian excuse.
• 1:47:37
  Me. Did you see Teegan do in the
• 1:47:38
  Charleston? I don't know the Victorians.
• 1:47:41
  I just wouldn't. There'd be something about it.
• 1:47:43
  It would look like Mark, the Rani and I.
• 1:47:46
  That doesn't look great to me. I can't explain it.
• 1:47:49
  There's something about. It.
• 1:47:50
  And here's special guest star for this episode, Sarah
• 1:47:53
  Hellings, director of Martha Ronnie.
• 1:47:55
  Here to make sense. Of it.
• 1:47:56
  I just can't see it in the 80s then.
• 1:47:57
  I think in the 80s it it would be the master as well.
• 1:48:01
  It'd be the Anthony and the Master, and that just sort of
• 1:48:04
  cheapens it. The.
• 1:48:05
  Tasty. Though the idea is tasty, they
• 1:48:06
  probably would have botched it. But the idea is tasty.
• 1:48:09
  Yeah. Would you like another quick
• 1:48:10
  question before we go? Yes.
• 1:48:12
  This is from David Rennie at Heem of All, Russ Says.
• 1:48:15
  No, no, no. You said it wrong.
• 1:48:17
  See, you had a go at me for this.
• 1:48:18
  It's heem of all R. It's a play on words.
• 1:48:23
  OK, that's been a phrase, you know.
• 1:48:25
  It's always having to go mark for pronouncing things wrong.
• 1:48:28
  Now to say Mandragora again. Oh my God, say Justin.
• 1:48:31
  Cork. It takes the worst one I.
• 1:48:34
  Could get over there the. Question is could I ask a
• 1:48:39
  question? You you may Dave you may.
• 1:48:42
  Mine would be What is the best line in this story, and is it?
• 1:48:45
  Let the talons of Weng Chiang she read your.
• 1:48:53
  Could it be, oh, I'm looking at you quote, master?
• 1:49:01
  I would say anything that Gall says.
• 1:49:04
  All of those. Lies.
• 1:49:05
  What's the best lie you can do? It Go on, you know you.
• 1:49:08
  Can do it? I don't know what.
• 1:49:10
  The I don't. I know I'm a terrible fan.
• 1:49:13
  I don't know them off the top of my head, but I think that that
• 1:49:15
  Lila like for dinner scene, it's just in itself is great.
• 1:49:19
  All one of Jago's lines. He's got so many good.
• 1:49:22
  His turn of phrase the way he's written.
• 1:49:24
  It's the alliteration. Is that the right word?
• 1:49:26
  Yeah, yeah. All of that.
• 1:49:29
  Which they really play up on. Well, we're not mentioning it on
• 1:49:35
  beer. On other mediums.
• 1:49:38
  I love it when he says I'm I'm a nipper when my danders up, but.
• 1:49:43
  That's just because that's. How I live my life I'll tell you
• 1:49:45
  which one I do. I do like cancellation incoming
• 1:49:49
  but the one way it's like Chang kill 4 Chinamen doing this
• 1:49:53
  trick. No, it's Talik.
• 1:49:56
  Talik. It's written as Talik because
• 1:50:00
  I've seen the script. All right, yeah.
• 1:50:02
  No, I I think that's just it's humour but it's also threatened
• 1:50:06
  in at the same. Time, man.
• 1:50:07
  I mean, we could probably think of hundreds of great lines from
• 1:50:10
  this, couldn't we? OK, and the very last question
• 1:50:12
  as we out This is from Wicked size.
• 1:50:16
  Queen at size. Wicked asks.
• 1:50:19
  So if not onions, what would you serve that with?
• 1:50:24
  He is the gall. It's it's what would you serve
• 1:50:26
  it? It's very memorable.
• 1:50:27
  A dead body? Yeah, probably.
• 1:50:31
  It's a dead body. Is she talking about?
• 1:50:33
  Oh, I wouldn't serve that with. This is our work sometimes.
• 1:50:38
  I wouldn't serve that to my rat. I can't.
• 1:50:42
  You weren't writing the script. Luke.
• 1:50:46
  I can't beat that. Hamster with a blunt penlight
• 1:51:24
  for doing quicker, quicker. Welcome back to A Hamster with a
• 1:51:31
  Blunt Penknife, the Doctor Who Commentary Podcast.
• 1:51:34
  Finally, not a parody of that, but actually a ridiculous way I
• 1:51:38
  say it myself. I'm here today with the fabulous
• 1:51:43
  Luke Monoi Monoi. Luke Monoid.
• 1:51:50
  Take me to the security kitchen. Lost on Gallop Ray and Mark, Raw
• 1:51:57
  porn star from Hello. Hello.
• 1:52:03
  Didn't deny it, did he? If you just put in Mark.
• 1:52:06
  Rohn I'm the fans. I can't change my Twitter name.
• 1:52:10
  Now it's I can't. It's called the Hot Ginge.
• 1:52:15
  Anyway, sorry. Here we are for Talons of Wang
• 1:52:18
  Chai Anne episode. What talons of Diane?
• 1:52:24
  Talons of Wang Diane Episode 4, and we're gentlemen.
• 1:52:30
  We're going to start with a song, so I'm going to count us
• 1:52:32
  in and let's all have a little bit of virulent.
• 1:52:34
  You ready, 5432? Daisy, Daisy.
• 1:52:43
  Give me your answer, do I'm half crazy.
• 1:52:50
  I'll be Dudley Simpson. All four to.
• 1:52:53
  Watch. It won't be a stylish marriage.
• 1:52:59
  I can't afford a carriage. Oh.
• 1:53:04
  You don't even know the. Words.
• 1:53:05
  We don't know the words. Upon the sea of a lost on
• 1:53:09
  Gallifrey or two. I've.
• 1:53:12
  Got both podcasting. Thank you.
• 1:53:14
  Thank you. All right, let's press play.
• 1:53:16
  And I think it's nonsense. Let's.
• 1:53:17
  Go Talent. 'S Winchayang Episode 4/4. 5432.
• 1:53:24
  1. And we left Lila being eaten by
• 1:53:28
  a rack. I love it.
• 1:53:30
  I do love it when they do like show tunes and but like the
• 1:53:35
  Angel put the devil in me from Daleks in my heart.
• 1:53:37
  Do you? Remember the one that goes like
• 1:53:43
  this Once I found? A stowaway upon my ship on
• 1:53:49
  Christmas Day. I was there, so I gave him a
• 1:53:53
  chance. Do you remember this one?
• 1:53:55
  Then there's a rocket ship bomb away to Mars on the collision
• 1:53:59
  course. Remember that one?
• 1:54:00
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, Fox is. Amazing.
• 1:54:03
  Nothing is as good as Daisy Daisy though.
• 1:54:06
  Is there any more show choosing? Like the stowaway is my favorite
• 1:54:09
  one. Very great show in the Galaxy,
• 1:54:13
  we're. Talking about racism?
• 1:54:17
  Jesus, there's it's not shaky and there's love.
• 1:54:19
  Dope Rome, isn't it? From Runaway Bride.
• 1:54:21
  I don't really like that one very.
• 1:54:22
  No, it just sounds like the snake.
• 1:54:25
  That's the song thing. Did we stop doing that after?
• 1:54:28
  Yeah, I used to. Oh.
• 1:54:29
  I've. Got the best one of all song for
• 1:54:31
  10. I.
• 1:54:33
  Know we're good today. There's something so nostalgic
• 1:54:36
  about that song from it. I'm.
• 1:54:39
  Sorry. I got lost for a minute.
• 1:54:41
  Anyway, Leela's dead. Yeah.
• 1:54:43
  Notice how. They spray painted red all over
• 1:54:47
  the walls to make it look like there's blood there.
• 1:54:49
  Did you notice that? Look, that's a nice detail.
• 1:54:52
  Yeah, it's. Very nice.
• 1:54:53
  He says at the end of the story something about the rats.
• 1:54:55
  How does he say that they're going to get sorted out or
• 1:54:57
  cleared up or there is a line I noticed last time I watched?
• 1:55:00
  Can you make them smell? Up again.
• 1:55:02
  There was something he said about the rats.
• 1:55:04
  Have to look out for it. Do.
• 1:55:06
  You know that poor Louise Jamieson was very sick during
• 1:55:09
  these scenes and she's forced to walk around in underwear and get
• 1:55:12
  yourself very wet indeed. I mean, I'll bet there's some
• 1:55:14
  men out there that. We're cool.
• 1:55:15
  I can. See, I don't know whether this
• 1:55:18
  comes through on the Brita box version, but on blue rack and
• 1:55:20
  see a nipple. Yeah, yeah, you can.
• 1:55:22
  Yeah, the other day. How dare you come on this
• 1:55:26
  podcast. Sorry.
• 1:55:28
  Make it sexually bent. Sexually.
• 1:55:32
  Bent. That'll live my life.
• 1:55:36
  I know your bio I. Don't.
• 1:55:45
  Think so without a bit of floating, right?
• 1:55:47
  Let's go. If I had my leg more by a giant
• 1:55:51
  rat though, I won't just be able to walk it off right?
• 1:55:54
  Rats are like full of infection and stuff aren't they?
• 1:55:57
  I would be really scared without but Lena's but if he actually.
• 1:56:00
  He might have just got a shoe. Maybe he just sort of licked
• 1:56:04
  her. Mark Rohr.
• 1:56:10
  Honestly. I'll tell you what.
• 1:56:13
  Maybe he licked. Her.
• 1:56:14
  Oh, no, you know. Like I didn't get it, get it
• 1:56:19
  round. Like, get it round her anyway.
• 1:56:23
  I think he just let her shoe and got shot.
• 1:56:25
  It was a very disappointing last meal, but the doctor shot him.
• 1:56:29
  I mean, that's quite harsh, isn't it?
• 1:56:31
  Yeah, but Tom Bakers say he's in prison.
• 1:56:33
  He put He kills what's so long, Brain Amorbius.
• 1:56:38
  Just cyanide. Oh, I love that.
• 1:56:40
  Isn't that dark? Yeah, why not?
• 1:56:42
  We'll have a go at Colin Baker, you know, cyanide in shock eye
• 1:56:48
  and blowing out the cyber leader, but you know Trouton's
• 1:56:51
  going round and sees the death murdering Ice Warriors left.
• 1:56:53
  Right. Do you know what?
• 1:56:53
  It's just how it's done, isn't it?
• 1:56:55
  It's just how it's done in in in season 22 and in the Two
• 1:57:00
  Doctors. It's just so vulgar, like the
• 1:57:04
  the story is anyway, but it's quite something to see the
• 1:57:07
  Doctor really for ages strangle and like put the cyanide around
• 1:57:13
  it. And I'm just saying, there's a
• 1:57:14
  fabulous exposition scene in a minute, right?
• 1:57:17
  And then Leila cuts them all dead when she walks in and dress
• 1:57:20
  and no one can speak because she looks so beautiful.
• 1:57:23
  And life, it says perfectly charming.
• 1:57:26
  It's. Lovely.
• 1:57:29
  That's. Really.
• 1:57:29
  He's such a nice bloke. Wouldn't you just love to to
• 1:57:32
  chat with Lightfoot I? Did I?
• 1:57:36
  Mean. I mean in real life.
• 1:57:39
  I do. I want to start Jaguar Lightfoot
• 1:57:40
  from the beginning now after this.
• 1:57:43
  Yeah, it does make you watch it again.
• 1:57:44
  And do you know what's interesting is it genuinely
• 1:57:46
  feels that they stepped from this.
• 1:57:50
  Yeah, the week later. Yeah, 100%.
• 1:57:53
  And Trevor backs is on the documentary for this.
• 1:57:55
  His voice is exactly the same. Is I think the Jago Lightfoot is
• 1:58:00
  really strong for the first six seasons and then it does start
• 1:58:05
  to trail off a bit. Even that's a fair run, isn't
• 1:58:08
  it? Yeah, yeah, but it does have 13
• 1:58:09
  value. Actually it's got 14 with that
• 1:58:11
  weird audio. One, it was when people should
• 1:58:13
  obviously trimmer Baxter Pass, which was very sad, and people
• 1:58:16
  are going, oh, cut off and it's prime.
• 1:58:18
  I'm like theories. You've had plenty.
• 1:58:20
  You've got a lot of content there, you know.
• 1:58:22
  And we had Jago Lightfoot and strikes.
• 1:58:24
  Oh, please. Well.
• 1:58:26
  I like Strucks. I like Jago Lightfoot.
• 1:58:28
  I did not like that story. It's a bizarre mixing that's
• 1:58:31
  that's that A to B big finish thing they do right that element
• 1:58:35
  and River Song and Captain Knight from the weather fear and
• 1:58:38
  off you go. Yeah, and Jago turns up in a
• 1:58:40
  Paternoster story. But it it it does sound old
• 1:58:46
  Christopher Benjamin by that point, because I think Lightfoot
• 1:58:49
  Trevor Baxter gone for a few years by that point.
• 1:58:53
  And he does sound a bit sad, and that made me sad.
• 1:58:56
  Listen to it. I think the Riversong one has
• 1:59:00
  Jay go in running the theatre before.
• 1:59:02
  Yeah, I think he's in that one as well.
• 1:59:04
  Can I just say, you know, Jay for Jay go here?
• 1:59:06
  Yeah, he's just saying about how, you know, I get my blood
• 1:59:10
  rushing. That's the curtains about to go
• 1:59:13
  up. That's like me doing a podcast.
• 1:59:15
  And then you're like Casey going, well, you don't do
• 1:59:16
  anything. They are such a funny act.
• 1:59:21
  I'm sad. Casey dies because these two are
• 1:59:23
  very funny. The way he puts him down is
• 1:59:25
  hilarious. And there's that running gag of
• 1:59:28
  Mrs. Samuelson. The costume woman isn't there.
• 1:59:31
  Yeah, because she's coming after me, the old Bloodhound.
• 1:59:34
  We'll never meet her. And Doctor Who does this every
• 1:59:36
  now and again. There's somebody who's mentioned
• 1:59:38
  off screen several times. You're like, oh man, what would
• 1:59:42
  that person, it's like hyacinth bouquet sound, you know, You
• 1:59:46
  knew he was going to be an absolute monster, but you can
• 1:59:48
  never see him. Do you know in the Love of
• 1:59:52
  Monsters Script, Elson's flatmate comes in at one point?
• 1:59:57
  Really, doesn't that just change?
• 1:59:59
  I always assumed out and lived on his own.
• 2:00:01
  I've watched that episode 100 times thinking he lives on his
• 2:00:04
  own. You know the first episode of
• 2:00:06
  The X-Files, they gave Scully my boyfriend, and then before it
• 2:00:12
  aired, they filmed all the scenes.
• 2:00:13
  They edited out all those scenes because they were aware of the
• 2:00:16
  sexual chemistry between Scully and Mulder, and this is more
• 2:00:20
  interesting. So sometimes taking stuff out
• 2:00:23
  adds a lot. Yeah, I think it's better, but.
• 2:00:26
  Like, you know, like Rebus Operation Graphing the cake
• 2:00:29
  keeps going on about his brother that took the throne.
• 2:00:33
  Or in Carnival of Monsters, they keep talking about President Zob
• 2:00:36
  Khalek's brother. I love that.
• 2:00:38
  I love it when it's. Robert Holmes.
• 2:00:40
  All Robert Holmes. Well, I mean, Russell C Davis
• 2:00:43
  does that best, doesn't he? When he describes the time more
• 2:00:45
  in little bursts, that lines that just.
• 2:00:47
  Your mind should have seen we. Know we shouldn't have seen it
• 2:00:50
  should be not totally. Yeah, but the way I view it is
• 2:00:53
  that we saw the very last day of the Time War when it all just
• 2:00:57
  bogged down to just one final attack.
• 2:01:00
  So all the mad stuff happened well before that.
• 2:01:03
  That just happened off screen. Yeah, of course.
• 2:01:05
  The last two minutes which were very dull, we're.
• 2:01:08
  Probably going to get Magnus Grill time war at some point,
• 2:01:11
  aren't we? If he's travelling around, well,
• 2:01:13
  no. He's dead at the end of this,
• 2:01:15
  isn't he? Oh yeah.
• 2:01:16
  I would say that if anyone is intrigued about picking up Jago
• 2:01:20
  and Lightfoot, because I don't think I ever came away from
• 2:01:22
  talents thinking like I thought they were good but not probably
• 2:01:25
  not good enough to buy 13 series soft.
• 2:01:29
  But then I have a bit of a collector.
• 2:01:31
  But I listened to like the first two series and I thought it was
• 2:01:35
  some of the best big finish I'd had for for a long time.
• 2:01:38
  And then I just sort of got sucked in, remember?
• 2:01:40
  David Collins in the second series as.
• 2:01:42
  The as the vampire. Mucking.
• 2:01:44
  Chilling he was. A then first couple of series to
• 2:01:48
  Jago Lightfoot on Big Finish. Did they have a different aim
• 2:01:51
  each series or a different drive and that really makes it go did?
• 2:01:54
  You. I even like the 60s series.
• 2:01:57
  That's the best one that was. Great.
• 2:01:59
  Just fresh. Up at that point, that's the
• 2:02:00
  best. One that's viral music for that
• 2:02:02
  series is amazing. It's so good.
• 2:02:05
  Series 5. At this point, it's Series 5.
• 2:02:09
  That's my favorite one. Wonderful.
• 2:02:11
  We've just missed the scene where Chang goes back to Lisen
• 2:02:17
  and Lisen says you're dismissed. I want nothing more to do with
• 2:02:20
  you. You've got to remember he thinks
• 2:02:21
  that Magnus Grill is a God, so he goes, right, I'm going to do
• 2:02:25
  a blood sacrifice on the stage. So, So it's building up all this
• 2:02:29
  suspense for the magic show that's about to happen where
• 2:02:32
  he's got the gun out on the Doctor.
• 2:02:34
  Yeah, and it's brilliantly done. So this is my favorite scene of
• 2:02:39
  of the six parts this this magic show that's about to happen now.
• 2:02:43
  I mean, just the doctor and leader in their costumes, sat in
• 2:02:46
  the box in a theatre that is just it's already great.
• 2:02:50
  They're not even spoken yet. This is the sort of pacing you
• 2:02:52
  wouldn't do now, so you'd lose all of this.
• 2:02:55
  Yeah, it'd be a lot. It would be, it would be all the
• 2:02:57
  plot beats of this story and none of the extras, and I think
• 2:03:00
  it's the extras that make this. Yeah, J, the characters are just
• 2:03:05
  so rich, aren't they? I suppose you've got your own
• 2:03:09
  men scattered throughout the audience.
• 2:03:13
  Oh, I love J Go so much. He is brilliant.
• 2:03:19
  And then, you know, everybody said that those two characters
• 2:03:21
  were strong enough to sustain their own show and props, the
• 2:03:23
  Big Finish, were proving that point.
• 2:03:26
  Yeah. Well, apparently it was
• 2:03:27
  considered around at the time, only they genuinely did.
• 2:03:31
  Which, yeah, they said that, didn't they?
• 2:03:33
  I'm. Surprised that they would do
• 2:03:34
  that. But we got Blake's evidence
• 2:03:37
  there. The budger went on.
• 2:03:37
  Blake. Seven, The production value of
• 2:03:40
  the Jerry, Brett Sherlock Holmes is that's what that would have
• 2:03:43
  looked like. It would have been great.
• 2:03:45
  You'd have had all the best British actors involved in the
• 2:03:49
  Jayco and Lightfoot series. It'd be Sherlock Holmes, but
• 2:03:53
  with fun, wouldn't it? And aliens.
• 2:03:56
  Just like forget knocked out again in a minute when it comes
• 2:03:58
  out of the laundry box, Yeah. I think it does.
• 2:04:01
  Oh, there we go. And there's Dudley Simpson.
• 2:04:05
  Everybody. Now.
• 2:04:13
  The audience don't. Look, particularly, No.
• 2:04:17
  I don't think Daisy's doing it for them.
• 2:04:19
  Yeah, the. Last time you and I did a
• 2:04:20
  commentary, Luke, we had a simulated audience of five
• 2:04:24
  people made to look like a lot of people.
• 2:04:26
  Do we? I love singing in Doctor Who.
• 2:04:30
  I think even even you think that the three I've done so far, my
• 2:04:34
  love of monsters. It's got so many good little
• 2:04:36
  tunes, obviously yellow and then you.
• 2:04:42
  That was the best singing in all of classic Who don't you?
• 2:04:44
  You know I'm doing that to you. Macrotera.
• 2:04:51
  Yeah, the Jingle Macrotera. Well, this is gay.
• 2:05:03
  The Highland flick. Brilliant.
• 2:05:05
  Look, he comes up behind Casey in the dark.
• 2:05:09
  Casey's like I said, there were monsters there all along.
• 2:05:12
  And he's dead. I say those five people look
• 2:05:16
  very enthusiastic to suggest the massive audience don't know.
• 2:05:21
  Oh, this is where he does his. This is his alliteration.
• 2:05:24
  Here is something else. Jago.
• 2:05:26
  Yeah. Someone who's legendary legend
• 2:05:31
  to me. I literally will not mention Big
• 2:05:34
  Finish again, but have you see the the audio where he meets
• 2:05:38
  Oscar Wilde and they have an alliteration off at the end.
• 2:05:41
  Brilliant it it it was a John Dolly script that must have that
• 2:05:45
  one line must have took him forever to come up with.
• 2:05:49
  It is brilliant. I mean, basically anything John
• 2:05:51
  Dolly Rice is gold. Yeah, people always go, oh, we
• 2:05:55
  should get some Big Finish writers on the TV, and I don't
• 2:05:57
  really agree with that, but he is the one that I think should
• 2:06:01
  get the chance. And Johnny Morris?
• 2:06:03
  I'd have Johnny Morris as well, because I think he's pretty
• 2:06:05
  consistent too. Consistent, but he doesn't give
• 2:06:07
  me the same exciting flirt that Dorney does.
• 2:06:11
  The tingles. Now look, we're going to watch
• 2:06:14
  this whole magic show. Now it's marvellous.
• 2:06:16
  Turns a cloth into Pixie dust. You've really, like, made this
• 2:06:20
  better for me now I know it's real magic though, not just TV
• 2:06:24
  editing. From the gun bit, obviously, I
• 2:06:27
  think. Yeah.
• 2:06:29
  From that one, I don't think there was an issue.
• 2:06:31
  In her peasants or anything was there.
• 2:06:33
  No. Catchy.
• 2:06:38
  But no, it's like I said to you before, he's playing up the
• 2:06:40
  stereotypes now to his audience. Because he's in an English
• 2:06:43
  audience. But he doesn't talk like that
• 2:06:45
  otherwise, so I think he's liberal.
• 2:06:48
  He's a showman. Come on, it's Tom Baker's face
• 2:06:51
  here as well. Yeah, the way he's winning and
• 2:06:54
  just brings it closer to his face.
• 2:06:56
  There's a detail as well about Chang where he says that he was
• 2:07:00
  just like the son of a peasant man and he would have been a
• 2:07:04
  nobody if Grill hadn't given him these sort of illustrious
• 2:07:08
  magical powers. So he's he's kind of got a lot
• 2:07:11
  to be thankful for, just he's well motivated.
• 2:07:13
  He's such a showdown, but they're not using any words and
• 2:07:17
  it's just heightened because it's in front of the audience.
• 2:07:19
  And you've got Dudley Simpson literally going on the drums.
• 2:07:22
  Haven't you? Ah, that is just quite.
• 2:07:27
  Tom Baker has to put it in front of his face, don't they Chang
• 2:07:32
  Shoot. 50 I thought. It was 4.
• 2:07:38
  That's a great line as well. You imagine he's 15 people dead
• 2:07:41
  like, I got it right. And then when the Doctor goes
• 2:07:48
  onto the stage. Oh.
• 2:07:51
  He goes into the box and then walks out.
• 2:07:53
  Yeah, walks out of it. It's.
• 2:07:57
  So it's so hard to write Duck Two though, is that it's such a
• 2:08:00
  constant fine line between Sirius and comedy, and the best
• 2:08:04
  writers just seems to get it right.
• 2:08:07
  There's just so I know I said I know I had a bit of an off on
• 2:08:09
  Robert Holmes on the off, but he's one of the best classic
• 2:08:12
  Duck 2 writers. I wasn't trying to say any of
• 2:08:13
  the other words saying I don't love them as much as other
• 2:08:16
  people. Was that a pointed remark about
• 2:08:21
  me and Stephen Moffett there? Because I'll tell you what,
• 2:08:24
  there's one thing that Stephen Moffett and Robert Holmes have
• 2:08:26
  got in common. There is absolutely a confidence
• 2:08:29
  to their writing. Oh yeah, there's a self
• 2:08:31
  assurance to it. Well, I think 1 tips in too far
• 2:08:34
  in the other. Direction, but there we go.
• 2:08:36
  The the two things I think I want from a script is is
• 2:08:39
  confidence and their own style. So, and it never bothers me.
• 2:08:43
  If if someone comes in and doesn't do a story that I don't
• 2:08:46
  particularly like, but it's got its own style about it, then I'm
• 2:08:49
  very happy with that. I'd say Moffett can construct a
• 2:08:52
  plot better than Holmes, but I'll say Holmes can characterize
• 2:08:57
  better than Moffett Man. But then bring the two of them
• 2:09:00
  together. He knows Doctor Who.
• 2:09:01
  You've got to sort of get to know how Doctor Who works and by
• 2:09:05
  this point he's really, you know, from his earlier scripts
• 2:09:08
  I. Think he's really.
• 2:09:09
  Worked. Out and he knows.
• 2:09:10
  What's going on? Like TV is just so different.
• 2:09:13
  Holmes would never have thought about writing anything, Moffett
• 2:09:15
  wrote. Just two different.
• 2:09:17
  Doesn't doesn't Moffett and Davies both identify Arc and
• 2:09:21
  Space as their favorite classic Huda story?
• 2:09:25
  How it's. I think for Davies, it's how
• 2:09:28
  it's characterized and the atmosphere.
• 2:09:30
  For Moffett, it's how it's constructed the.
• 2:09:32
  Ideas and stuff. Yeah.
• 2:09:39
  Everyone stopped talking, but why don't we just mesmerize?
• 2:09:41
  Sorry, I was. Just waiting for the bit when he
• 2:09:43
  walks out of the. Box.
• 2:09:44
  And the audience are fooling about, and that's brilliant.
• 2:09:47
  Honestly, I think what I'm missing is that that drag queen
• 2:09:51
  from the rings of Akaten being there with the painted lips, you
• 2:09:55
  know what I mean? Didn't.
• 2:09:57
  You. Yeah, there could be a a a court
• 2:10:01
  here. Where the IT cuts to the
• 2:10:03
  audience in the rings of Alcatel.
• 2:10:05
  What should What should him on stage?
• 2:10:08
  I mean, there's one thing we haven't mentioned which is
• 2:10:10
  directly stolen from this, and that is The Unquiet Dead has a
• 2:10:14
  sequence in a theatre with a bit of a show going on.
• 2:10:18
  Do you think that's anything to do with this?
• 2:10:20
  It's just say the theatre, isn't it?
• 2:10:22
  Well, oh, they're very different.
• 2:10:23
  I think it means Victorian times.
• 2:10:25
  I think the only link. In the Loving, loving the
• 2:10:29
  adoration of the crowd. Oh, you telling me you don't
• 2:10:32
  think Gates is capable of cherry picking from classic Who?
• 2:10:36
  I'd say saying I don't think there's much of AI.
• 2:10:38
  Don't think he thought about the times of one turn when he was
• 2:10:41
  writing them quite dirt. I think he thought about the
• 2:10:43
  times when he changed a lot. He Victoriana, That's.
• 2:10:45
  Just, but that's a. That's quite a common place to
• 2:10:49
  set sci-fi, especially Doctor Who.
• 2:10:51
  So I'm. Going to find an interview now
• 2:10:53
  where he says it. Review wrong.
• 2:10:55
  Look at all those swords. There's a lot in it, yeah.
• 2:11:05
  I don't think he'd. Be attacked by that many pricks,
• 2:11:07
  I'm telling you. Sorry.
• 2:11:10
  Sexually bad. The doctor's loving this look.
• 2:11:14
  He's smiling his head off. All the audience are looking.
• 2:11:18
  A bit nervous about this. It's how the Doctor changes when
• 2:11:22
  Casey falls out. He goes from loving it.
• 2:11:24
  Suddenly this is very serious. And what's great is Grill wants
• 2:11:31
  to humiliate him after taking him to, like, you know,
• 2:11:34
  popularity to stardom. Now he's going to oh, I.
• 2:11:38
  Hate that bit. I know it's a prop sword, but I
• 2:11:41
  hate the fact he picks up the actual like sliced bit of the
• 2:11:45
  sword when he pulls out that last one.
• 2:11:48
  Well, he kind of drops it. I know, yeah.
• 2:11:49
  But then he picks it up by the by the slice.
• 2:11:52
  Maloney, you should have gone again.
• 2:11:54
  And I just think, oh, his poor hands, but I know it's a
• 2:11:56
  problem. Why do you think that's so
• 2:11:59
  horrible? Humiliating him like that,
• 2:12:01
  putting him in that box and now he slinks off to get chewed up
• 2:12:06
  by a rat? Poor Chang.
• 2:12:09
  That is exactly how you want the Doctor to be though, isn't it?
• 2:12:12
  That's a hero. Like just enjoying it when it's
• 2:12:14
  silly, but then really serious when it's when it has to be.
• 2:12:18
  And he goes down to the sewers now, doesn't he?
• 2:12:20
  And he says, no, you've been left to carry the can.
• 2:12:22
  This is on you now. That's really, really great.
• 2:12:28
  He's a very sophisticated character.
• 2:12:32
  I think people can only see the problematic parts of his
• 2:12:35
  character, but actually they're missing.
• 2:12:37
  I feel like, you know, it's people just jump on that bit,
• 2:12:43
  but are these the people that actually sit and enjoy towns of
• 2:12:46
  Wenchuang or they're just the people there's?
• 2:12:47
  Probably a lot of people that watch part one see and don't
• 2:12:50
  actually get further in the story and see the rest of.
• 2:12:52
  The. Characterization and stuff.
• 2:12:53
  They're probably not going to sit and watch it all the way
• 2:12:55
  through and and look at the characterization.
• 2:13:02
  Doctor just trotted in. Even that stock, he went
• 2:13:06
  straight away to commit suicide, didn't he?
• 2:13:08
  Yeah, he was poison. I did love that, you know, You
• 2:13:11
  know, in episode one when the guy crunches.
• 2:13:13
  Yeah, we totally missed out that that's a really good scene,
• 2:13:15
  isn't. It what do you call it?
• 2:13:16
  The sting of the scorpion or something like that.
• 2:13:18
  Scorpion venom. That's nasty.
• 2:13:24
  It's just just in in general with talents, it's it is harder
• 2:13:29
  to talk about one. That's really good, isn't it?
• 2:13:33
  Without sounding boring because it's only so much you can say,
• 2:13:36
  oh this is great and that's amazing.
• 2:13:38
  Oh, do you think there's anything, Would you change
• 2:13:41
  anything? No, I don't even find the rat
• 2:13:44
  that problematic, which is the one thing people go to.
• 2:13:50
  I mean, it's sort of a leading question for the if we were
• 2:13:53
  putting the racism side to one side, then no, it wouldn't
• 2:13:57
  change anything. It's just it's just one of the
• 2:13:59
  perfect stories. I I.
• 2:14:00
  Was introduced the length and generally for a 6th part or I
• 2:14:03
  would say yeah this could be 4 but it would lose so much it
• 2:14:07
  would lose. So much, yeah.
• 2:14:10
  This one is sometimes always said like to If you're showing a
• 2:14:13
  non fan a Doctor Who story, would you show?
• 2:14:16
  No. And this for the first time?
• 2:14:18
  I wouldn't What? But if it's supposed to be a
• 2:14:20
  great story, why it's? A It's a great, It's a great
• 2:14:25
  story for people that that are into Doctor Who and I think that
• 2:14:31
  like I said on Part 1 or whatever that when I watched it
• 2:14:35
  in order I I think I appreciated it so much more because.
• 2:14:40
  I did show this. I did show this to my ex.
• 2:14:45
  I showed two stories. I showed this and Time and the
• 2:14:48
  Rani because I wanted to show 2 contrasting stories because he's
• 2:14:52
  like, oh, it's probably all just old, old fashioned.
• 2:14:54
  And he watched this and he said no, that was really fun.
• 2:14:56
  I enjoyed that races, but that was fun.
• 2:14:59
  Then he watched Harman the Ronnie, and he went, do you know
• 2:15:01
  what, I can't really see much of a difference between the two.
• 2:15:04
  Well, that's it. I think normal people just don't
• 2:15:06
  see that much of a difference. And it's just old TV.
• 2:15:09
  So we. Take the classics to harm.
• 2:15:13
  Don't ever watch the classics with somebody who's not a fan
• 2:15:17
  because they're going to watch it.
• 2:15:18
  You definitely go well, That's just embarrassing, yeah.
• 2:15:20
  Like. And that that's not on them.
• 2:15:23
  That's on you for making them watch it and then wanting them
• 2:15:27
  to love it. Exactly.
• 2:15:28
  I showed Rachel City of Death part one when I when she gave me
• 2:15:32
  the chance. I showed one episode to see like
• 2:15:35
  and I thought, you know it's got it's got everything.
• 2:15:38
  You know, like you think of the fan.
• 2:15:40
  It's like got the location film and it's funny though just
• 2:15:43
  nothing. I didn't quite, but now it's
• 2:15:46
  tarnished it a bit for me because I I I know the bit she
• 2:15:49
  was getting bored in was Romana and the Doctor running around
• 2:15:53
  Paris for ages because that you wouldn't get that pace in a
• 2:15:56
  modern day, which is. I used to love that with the
• 2:15:59
  music, but now I think tarnished bad memories.
• 2:16:04
  I think, I think the well, I mean, I can't really say that to
• 2:16:06
  Mark who's got a podcast where he's showing somebody who's
• 2:16:09
  never watched it before the entire run of.
• 2:16:11
  I'm amazed how well Sir takes it.
• 2:16:13
  You're. Immune to her liking or not
• 2:16:16
  liking stuff because you, you're what, Season 15 now?
• 2:16:20
  But has there ever been a time where she's not like something
• 2:16:23
  and you've been like, Oh no, well, I'm never going to like
• 2:16:25
  that again. All the other way around.
• 2:16:27
  It doesn't change my opinion of it doesn't change my but I
• 2:16:30
  sometimes it's surprising what she would pick up on or you
• 2:16:34
  would think a non fan would pick up on or not.
• 2:16:38
  But I mean yeah, like this one, she really enjoyed this.
• 2:16:40
  But yeah, I knew that she would enjoy this.
• 2:16:43
  I think a non fan would. I would say a non fan would
• 2:16:45
  enjoy this. It just won't be the first one
• 2:16:47
  to show them because I think when I watched it at first it
• 2:16:51
  was like it was good, but it wasn't, but because wouldn't
• 2:16:53
  have convinced me to watch Doctor Who.
• 2:16:55
  If you're showing someone like old TV for the first time, the
• 2:16:58
  production in this would be great to impress, wouldn't it?
• 2:17:02
  Like for the time? Like impressive.
• 2:17:04
  But it's no slow compared to TV. Now this is slow.
• 2:17:06
  But no, it wouldn't. I think if someone had never
• 2:17:08
  seen classic Doctor T and then watch this, they would just say
• 2:17:12
  sets the that we think are really convincing because we see
• 2:17:17
  the rest of Doctor Who, but they would just see a set I think And
• 2:17:22
  then. Indeed.
• 2:17:24
  Yeah, sorry, it did. And I said last time that that
• 2:17:28
  cliffhanger was really good. That one's the best one.
• 2:17:31
  Do you know why it is, though? Because he goes.
• 2:17:33
  It's the howl, but it's but it's all the bad guys in a cab
• 2:17:39
  running off into the night, running off into the night.
• 2:17:42
  That's just great. What a Cliff.
• 2:17:44
  And they're all laughing in the heart.
• 2:17:45
  Oh, it's fantastic. Well, Are you ready for our next
• 2:17:48
  round of questions from Twitter? I'll just say that do it.
• 2:17:53
  This story I would pick will be remember into the Dalek.
• 2:17:56
  So that's another shout out for it because that's the one that I
• 2:18:00
  watched when I was a kid. When I was first getting into
• 2:18:03
  classic Doctor, I was like, Oh my God, this is class.
• 2:18:07
  What You see, I did that with my niece, remember, sort of the
• 2:18:11
  Daleks. And then I was stuck watching
• 2:18:13
  that bit where Ace. She made me rewind the sequence
• 2:18:16
  where Ace beats up the Dalek with a baseball bat and jumps
• 2:18:18
  through the window. Honestly, about 50 times I was
• 2:18:21
  like, have I ever seen this fucking scene again after this?
• 2:18:23
  That is a good bit though, so it.
• 2:18:24
  Works. Yeah.
• 2:18:25
  That's. A good choice.
• 2:18:27
  That would be a good one. And what would you choose the
• 2:18:30
  whole of Doctor? Who?
• 2:18:35
  I don't think you can pick black and white.
• 2:18:37
  I think that's too too much for someone.
• 2:18:40
  Maybe, actually, maybe time. Your first episode was called
• 2:18:44
  This Wasn't as Bad as I thought it was going to be, and that was
• 2:18:48
  black and white. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:18:50
  It does come with that extra different sort of expectation,
• 2:18:53
  doesn't it, if it's black and white as well.
• 2:18:55
  And now I think, although that's a great choice.
• 2:18:57
  Maybe people let it off a bit more or would be a bit more
• 2:19:00
  lenient to it because it's black and white.
• 2:19:02
  I don't know. Maybe start with Underworld and
• 2:19:04
  then the only way is. Oh yeah, I would like the.
• 2:19:07
  I think if you start as close to Monday as possible, so like a
• 2:19:11
  Sylvester story, yeah, it's. A Fenrick or something like
• 2:19:14
  that. It's bit pasty, isn't it?
• 2:19:16
  It's got it's, it looks a bit more like Monday.
• 2:19:19
  And then throw in the five doctors so they get, so they get
• 2:19:21
  taste of which doctor they like. Snake on No.
• 2:19:28
  No, you can say, you can say question.
• 2:19:29
  No, please. I'll get accused of talking over
• 2:19:31
  you too many times. Off you go.
• 2:19:32
  No. No, I wasn't going to say
• 2:19:33
  anything, OK. Well, I've got a question then
• 2:19:36
  for you fellows. It's from very Pete Lambert, the
• 2:19:39
  wonderful Pete Lambert at Professor under score.
• 2:19:42
  Quite a mess. That's a great name.
• 2:19:46
  Have you seen the 60s Fu Manchu movie starring Christopher Lee?
• 2:19:51
  They were huge and often on BBC One in the 70s.
• 2:19:53
  Definitely an inspiration. You said this to this as
• 2:19:57
  Frankenstein was to Morbius. The twist that Chang was
• 2:20:00
  deceived by grill rather than being the cause of the
• 2:20:03
  benevolence gets overlooked. My question is, is the doctor
• 2:20:07
  too forgiving of Chang at the end?
• 2:20:09
  That's. Such an interesting one.
• 2:20:12
  I think he I feel proper sympathy for Chang, even though
• 2:20:20
  I shouldn't, but I think that's just the performance is so good
• 2:20:24
  that I really do, and so I don't think the doctor's too
• 2:20:27
  sympathetic. But then he does actually like
• 2:20:30
  he does kill like 17 girls, so it really shouldn't be
• 2:20:35
  sympathetic. The Doctor kicks off at other
• 2:20:38
  people for a lot less Danny Pink.
• 2:20:43
  Oh, really boring. Oh God.
• 2:20:45
  On. The on the on the scales of it,
• 2:20:47
  maybe he's too sympathetic, but then I like Chang, so I.
• 2:20:51
  Think he's nice having that sympathy there though.
• 2:20:52
  You I yeah, I feel sympathy for him and he is sitting there half
• 2:20:56
  being by a rat dying. So it's not like anything you
• 2:20:58
  know, he is getting his comeuppance in the narrative,
• 2:21:01
  isn't he? Are you sure he's that
• 2:21:03
  sympathetic? Because when Chang is going,
• 2:21:05
  come on Chang, I want to, I need to know.
• 2:21:07
  And he's dying, he's going, and then he just goes, oh, can't get
• 2:21:11
  an answer to a simple question. And that's what he says after he
• 2:21:14
  dies. Well, I mean, you'd expect
• 2:21:18
  someone if he's killed 17 girls. You expect the doctors go in
• 2:21:22
  there and kick him in the face, will you?
• 2:21:26
  Oh, yes. Yeah, that's a good question.
• 2:21:28
  OK. Well, here's another question
• 2:21:29
  then from Andrew Canal. At Andrew Canal, Imaginatively,
• 2:21:35
  were the Sigma experiments a success?
• 2:21:38
  A brilliant success? Well, I don't, obviously not.
• 2:21:42
  Well, no. It's got a bent face.
• 2:21:47
  Well, that answers that one. I'll do one more than sorry,
• 2:21:50
  Andrea. Don't see the answers there in
• 2:21:52
  the bloody program. Steven Alexander.
• 2:21:55
  Lovely Steven. Honestly, he argues me as much
• 2:21:57
  as you do. That's why I love having the
• 2:21:59
  pair of your own at Steve Alexander UK.
• 2:22:04
  Why the hell would Lila ever dress in her skins again after
• 2:22:08
  the outfit she gets in this story?
• 2:22:11
  Well, I don't think she particularly likes being in
• 2:22:13
  these outfits. She looks quite.
• 2:22:17
  Delightful. She looks great, Yeah.
• 2:22:19
  Yeah. She does go back.
• 2:22:20
  When should she go back? After Fang?
• 2:22:23
  No. In Fang Rock she's not.
• 2:22:24
  And then invisible enemy, she's back in her, but that's her her
• 2:22:28
  character. Like she's part still part of
• 2:22:30
  her tribe, part of her home and being in that outfit is what
• 2:22:34
  she's always known. So I think she always prefer to
• 2:22:37
  go back and although she's sort of evolving in the way, learning
• 2:22:40
  from the Doctor and learning on the on the sort of journey, but
• 2:22:43
  she would, that's her identity, isn't it still so?
• 2:22:46
  I mean, she does wear that marvellous jumper in horror.
• 2:22:48
  Fact. Yeah, that's great.
• 2:22:51
  Nowadays you will get the costume evolving with the
• 2:22:54
  character. They would do it properly so
• 2:22:56
  that she was learning slowly and the costumes would sort of go
• 2:23:00
  with that. I mean, there's no real answer
• 2:23:03
  apart from to get our legs out for the audience is the like,
• 2:23:07
  it's a, it's a producer. Do you object?
• 2:23:11
  No. Cancelled.
• 2:23:12
  Cancelled actually How? Did that cost the leaders?
• 2:23:15
  Cost. There's nothing wrong first time
• 2:23:18
  the. First time that the companions
• 2:23:19
  have that regular, I know in the 80s view they have their
• 2:23:21
  uniforms crowd, don't they? You know Adrick and Teagan and
• 2:23:25
  all of that. But Lima's having that No.
• 2:23:28
  Adrick must have stunk. In War, like Sarah, Jane and
• 2:23:30
  Joe, they've always had just worn whatever.
• 2:23:33
  I suppose that it's a bit different, but she hasn't had
• 2:23:35
  that uniform look of a costume, if you see what I mean.
• 2:23:39
  No, I agree. And I think that I think that's
• 2:23:41
  the reason I don't like it more than say just the other one,
• 2:23:45
  because I just don't like the companions being in costumes.
• 2:23:48
  It just doesn't make them feel real.
• 2:23:50
  Yeah, I think that's what. It is.
• 2:23:51
  And you know what? I apologise.
• 2:23:53
  There is absolutely nothing wrong with admiring what you
• 2:23:56
  see. And you've also admired her
• 2:23:59
  acting, the characterization and all of this.
• 2:24:02
  So it's not just like you're a dirty Alper.
• 2:24:04
  What? Yeah, it was.
• 2:24:07
  If I was in charge then I wouldn't have put it back.
• 2:24:14
  I wouldn't have put it back in the skin.
• 2:24:17
  The jumper I'd have kept her in the jumper as.
• 2:24:20
  Terrific. I just kept changing it.
• 2:24:22
  I like. I like companions that change
• 2:24:24
  costume all time. Romana Tea and and and Kawara,
• 2:24:27
  yeah. What was Romana 2 the best?
• 2:24:29
  Costume. Sorry, what was the best
• 2:24:30
  costume? The best costume it's.
• 2:24:34
  That red one in Warriors Gate? Amazing.
• 2:24:36
  Yeah, I love the. I love the one from State of
• 2:24:38
  Decay with. That's that Bergen.
• 2:24:41
  Yeah, enough Burgundy. Sorry.
• 2:24:42
  Yeah, like the blonde jacket. Like the school Go outfit from
• 2:24:45
  six. I'm sure.
• 2:24:50
  That's your favorite? Yeah, yeah, I actually think she
• 2:24:53
  looks hotter in the in the horns of 911, you know, and she's got
• 2:24:56
  her own like doctor version of the costume we've.
• 2:24:58
  Just seen Daleks with the pink version of Yes, it's something
• 2:25:02
  that's brilliant. The the only misfire is the
• 2:25:05
  nightmare of Eden. That was the 1st.
• 2:25:07
  One she. Filmed though, wasn't it?
• 2:25:09
  She don't always got that preached for the pit as well.
• 2:25:11
  She goes, This is this was made for Mary Tam, not me.
• 2:25:14
  Yeah, she looks so much better when she's rocking like a
• 2:25:17
  variant of sort of the Doctor in a way, like the blazer and
• 2:25:20
  stuff. Oh.
• 2:25:21
  You're going to make a point then.
• 2:25:22
  When I was also going to say with Leela's cost around this
• 2:25:24
  time, Doctor Who is, you know, peaking in popularity and
• 2:25:28
  merchandise is coming out and you've got the Leela doll,
• 2:25:30
  haven't you? So you need that costume to wear
• 2:25:33
  that record. If she was wearing something
• 2:25:34
  different, she come no you all the merchandise and stuff around
• 2:25:37
  this time. That hair on that.
• 2:25:39
  Doll the dolls and stuff. So.
• 2:25:41
  You may even have those uniform things in in that way as well,
• 2:25:44
  which is the first time you you sort of had that.
• 2:25:47
  I know when you said peaking then you mean Peking.
• 2:25:52
  It's. Peak.
• 2:25:54
  It's at peak. It's peaking.
• 2:25:56
  She has two though, doesn't she? She has like a lighter one and a
• 2:25:59
  darker 1. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:26:00
  Because that is the lighter one. No, that used to throw me as
• 2:26:03
  well because her eyes change and it cost like slightly and it
• 2:26:08
  cost you changes. So I sort of know what you mean
• 2:26:10
  from before, yeah. Yeah, but in that first one, do
• 2:26:12
  you remember? She had all the publicity, but
• 2:26:14
  she had muddled over her face. Didn't.
• 2:26:15
  She those early pictures. Yeah, honestly.
• 2:26:19
  Well, we better come watch Episode 5 now.
• 2:26:21
  He's never going to get to his ping pong.
• 2:26:59
  A hamster with a blunt pen knife will do it quicker, quicker.
• 2:27:04
  Forgot. Forgot with a blunt pen.
• 2:27:07
  Nice. Hamster with a blunt pen.
• 2:27:10
  Nice. Oh, welcome back to you.
• 2:27:14
  I'm still with a front Ben Knife.
• 2:27:15
  The Doctor. A commentary podcast with Joe
• 2:27:19
  Ford over there. Say hello, Joe.
• 2:27:22
  Hello. Hello.
• 2:27:23
  Mark Raw porn star over there. Hello.
• 2:27:27
  Hey Luke Malloy from the Lost on Gallifrey Podcast.
• 2:27:31
  We're doing episode five of our threesome Journey 3 talents of
• 2:27:35
  Wang Chiang, and they've just stolen the time cap.
• 2:27:39
  It's your faces just on the time cabinet.
• 2:27:44
  They're off in the cab. It's really heating up now, but.
• 2:27:48
  Don't I just ask you guys if you're enjoying this reason so
• 2:27:51
  far? It's one of the best I've had.
• 2:27:53
  It's nice to have some. Input, you know, halfway
• 2:27:55
  through. It's it's a very sexually bent
• 2:27:58
  threesome, but very. Sexually bent?
• 2:28:00
  Honestly. I'm happy there's.
• 2:28:03
  Not really much of visual interest in that sort of way for
• 2:28:06
  me really in this I don't think. What men?
• 2:28:10
  Oh, you got? Yeah.
• 2:28:12
  Well, yeah. There's a lot of men in it.
• 2:28:14
  There's only, there's only. The very handsome prostitute.
• 2:28:17
  They're fabulous. The ghoul.
• 2:28:19
  It's been a visual feast for you.
• 2:28:23
  Oh, OK, Well look. What's the story sorry for?
• 2:28:30
  Just what's the the classic Doctor story with the most
• 2:28:33
  sexiest men? Well, Curse of Fenrick, it's not
• 2:28:36
  all those soldiers. Good.
• 2:28:38
  Yeah, good answer. Beautiful.
• 2:28:40
  Honestly. Sorry about that.
• 2:28:43
  That was just sexual awakening. What about you?
• 2:28:46
  About what? You know what?
• 2:28:49
  Your sexual awakening. No.
• 2:28:51
  Yeah, because of him, Rick. Yeah.
• 2:28:53
  Yeah, No one. 'S got a fucking original idea
• 2:28:55
  these days. OK, we'll look.
• 2:28:59
  Enough about sex. How about Talisman China Episode
• 2:29:02
  5? Yes, OK.
• 2:29:03
  On 15432. What?
• 2:29:09
  I believe you just prepared something.
• 2:29:11
  No, I was just looking up. I know we've mentioned Big
• 2:29:13
  Finish before. Just.
• 2:29:14
  No. No.
• 2:29:15
  No more No. Just just around this story,
• 2:29:18
  because there's so much around the story.
• 2:29:19
  There is. Like I was just looking at what
• 2:29:21
  Riversong was doing around in her story.
• 2:29:25
  So she visits Victorian London on the trail of an Akronistic
• 2:29:30
  technology. Anachronistic technology.
• 2:29:32
  When young women are stolen from the streets, she takes a stand.
• 2:29:36
  Rivers investigation leads to the theatre to Henry Gordon Jago
• 2:29:41
  and his latest star act like Sin Chang and the unnerving Mr. Sin.
• 2:29:46
  So basically, Riversong has Talon's wing Chiang before the
• 2:29:49
  Talon's wing Chiang, I think. Nice end.
• 2:29:51
  Like Lisa, Lisa. Whatever, Benny, you've got
• 2:29:55
  Fraser Gregory coming after you left, right and centre on this
• 2:29:57
  one. So yeah, it is a prequel.
• 2:29:59
  She isn't a prequel to the Talons, with the first time that
• 2:30:02
  Jago made an appearance without light for blah blah blah blah.
• 2:30:06
  Yeah, so. Do you feel like Big Finish?
• 2:30:09
  She basically does the same thing it looks like but.
• 2:30:12
  What's the bird that eats like corpses?
• 2:30:16
  You know the bird that which. 1. A vulture.
• 2:30:20
  Vulture. Do you feel like I finish like a
• 2:30:22
  vulture, picking over the corpse of talons of wings?
• 2:30:25
  After that story, River says to Jago warns him to be on his
• 2:30:29
  guard against Chang just as the sound of the TARDIS landing is
• 2:30:32
  heard in the distance. So he's not really acting in
• 2:30:36
  this like he's just met River Sog and has been warned already
• 2:30:39
  about it. We should if if we're going to
• 2:30:42
  finish Big Finish chat now, we should mention that the 4th
• 2:30:46
  Doctor adventures, when it starts, starts immediately after
• 2:30:50
  this story. Yes, when Tom Baker first came,
• 2:30:54
  they walk. Into the TARDIS.
• 2:30:55
  Nicholas Briggs has been going about cups of tea.
• 2:30:57
  They they repeat the last line of talents as the first line in
• 2:31:02
  destination there, but. Oh, can we also mention that
• 2:31:05
  Jagger and Lightfoot, they meet Romana One and Two in two
• 2:31:08
  separate 4th Doctor adventures as well?
• 2:31:11
  They get, they get everywhere, yeah.
• 2:31:14
  And they voyage of the New World.
• 2:31:16
  And all of this, Yeah, they get everywhere.
• 2:31:18
  It was always a bit of a shame to me that Tom Bacon never
• 2:31:21
  turned up in Jagger and Lightfoot.
• 2:31:24
  Yeah, because they had. Well, yeah, it was Colin Baker a
• 2:31:26
  lot. And then isn't there something
• 2:31:28
  in series 10? I was reading the one with the
• 2:31:31
  mastering. There's there's a Master and
• 2:31:33
  Colin Bate and the 6th Doctor, but they don't recognize him or
• 2:31:36
  something. Or there's something about that.
• 2:31:38
  And apparently it was supposed to be Sylvester McCoy, but you
• 2:31:39
  couldn't do it or something like that.
• 2:31:41
  Oh, I'm with Mary Tam and Jake. Yeah, yeah, That's.
• 2:31:43
  Yeah, but that's in the 4th Doctor event.
• 2:31:45
  Into Jayco and Lightfoot series. Oh, I'm so.
• 2:31:47
  Sorry, and it is a good one, but like actually in their series it
• 2:31:51
  just feels like they kept using Colin Baker because he was
• 2:31:53
  available. Cheaper as well, probably.
• 2:31:57
  He's got to buy those Crocs somehow.
• 2:31:59
  Oh. I love Colin, don't get me
• 2:32:02
  wrong. Oh, he's just.
• 2:32:03
  Look the the the Mr. Sin has got the cereal.
• 2:32:07
  Cortex of a pig. Then we cut to him.
• 2:32:10
  Then go the peaking homunculus Even that.
• 2:32:15
  What a great yeah. Yeah.
• 2:32:18
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:32:21
  Yeah. Look at Leila.
• 2:32:24
  She's got a lovely sort of leafy scarf on.
• 2:32:30
  Oh, we've all gone quiet. Well, we're just about, yeah,
• 2:32:32
  just we've. Gone quiet in the.
• 2:32:33
  World. Well, we're about to.
• 2:32:37
  I mean, we've talked about, like for the series that we should
• 2:32:40
  have waited till now. Really.
• 2:32:41
  Well, yeah. We're about to get to them,
• 2:32:43
  aren't we? But.
• 2:32:44
  Boy, oh boy. This is where the comedy really
• 2:32:46
  begins. Yeah.
• 2:32:49
  Oh my God. Mr. Sin.
• 2:32:51
  Did you say bloody? Scary Lightfoot is the is like
• 2:32:54
  the maid, doesn't he? He's like just announce me SAR
• 2:32:57
  this. Dragon This dragon.
• 2:32:59
  Let's go say this set is unbelievable, isn't it?
• 2:33:03
  This whole set is great. Well, all the sets are.
• 2:33:05
  Great. Just so they're.
• 2:33:06
  Having that like made out, I think it's polystyrene, but.
• 2:33:09
  It's so well done, it looks like it's gold.
• 2:33:12
  Yeah, it really does. And this is a set in episode 4
• 2:33:17
  No 5. Sorry, and that's late in the
• 2:33:19
  story. I think Maloney was saying that
• 2:33:22
  it's just sort of red curtains around the side.
• 2:33:24
  They'd had run out of money, so they didn't.
• 2:33:25
  They had to have curtains as the walls.
• 2:33:28
  It works. It works, don't you?
• 2:33:31
  Yeah. So if we if we didn't have this
• 2:33:33
  set, would we have had sets in Underworld?
• 2:33:36
  Is that is that? I think that's the trade off,
• 2:33:39
  no. But I would say that like this
• 2:33:44
  kind of set with that very elaborate dragon, but that
• 2:33:47
  wouldn't be out of place in like a Bond movie or something like
• 2:33:49
  that. You know, standing in front of
• 2:33:51
  that sort of thing with the Chinese hands, it wouldn't be
• 2:33:54
  any less racist. But I'm saying is the production
• 2:33:57
  value on the screen. Yeah.
• 2:33:59
  Particularly. Everyone's.
• 2:34:01
  Honest, strong, isn't it? They didn't have to have
• 2:34:03
  something like that. They could have gone.
• 2:34:07
  They didn't, you know. It's just all adds to it.
• 2:34:09
  They really want to make this as best as it can be and.
• 2:34:15
  That's horrible. Look, it's just.
• 2:34:16
  Yeah, look at the power he's got.
• 2:34:17
  Here's your punishment for disobeying me, death, but you've
• 2:34:23
  got to do it yourself. Yeah, he's literally making him
• 2:34:25
  take the pill himself. Oh.
• 2:34:26
  That's horrible, the way he axes as well.
• 2:34:28
  That's a very small part, but. Yeah, it's.
• 2:34:32
  Fine. He's.
• 2:34:33
  It really doesn't look nice, does it?
• 2:34:35
  The sting of the scorpion, or whenever I hear them take it, it
• 2:34:38
  looks horrible. And it's especially contrast
• 2:34:41
  because then sin starts laughing his head off.
• 2:34:45
  I've touched on it a few times when every time it's ended about
• 2:34:48
  how good the cliffhangers are. But that is one of my favorite
• 2:34:52
  things about the Hinge Cliff era, because I know that he
• 2:34:55
  focused on it, making that cliffhanger really good.
• 2:34:58
  That makes Doctor Who sing. I think when you get the
• 2:35:02
  cliffhanger so good any? Particular favourites.
• 2:35:07
  What, off the whole Hinchcliff here?
• 2:35:08
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, definitely that freeze
• 2:35:10
  frame from Genesis to Daleks that we mentioned before.
• 2:35:12
  The freeze frame in Deadly Assassin when he's under the
• 2:35:14
  water, wrapped in the train tracks.
• 2:35:18
  Yes, Yeah. Oh, you don't like that one,
• 2:35:20
  dude? Crap.
• 2:35:22
  No. The one him shooting the
• 2:35:23
  president is unbelievable. Oh.
• 2:35:25
  That's great. What about the hand in hand of
• 2:35:27
  fake having a lie? Yeah.
• 2:35:28
  Serious place in the Android invasion is my favorite.
• 2:35:31
  Yes, that was rad going. Yeah, no, L Jazz one, it's so
• 2:35:36
  shocking because you just don't see it coming.
• 2:35:38
  And the Zygon one, just for the noise when when the nurse turns
• 2:35:42
  your eyes off, it's horrible noise.
• 2:35:46
  There's some other like unusual ones as well, like the boats
• 2:35:50
  crashing into the rocks, that horror fan rock part.
• 2:35:53
  One Williams. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:35:55
  Oh. No, I do like that.
• 2:35:57
  Oh. You look so disappointed.
• 2:36:01
  I'm sorry. I always think in my head
• 2:36:03
  because Horror of Fangrock has that atmosphere that the
• 2:36:05
  Hinchcliffe stories. Yeah, in my mind it's there and
• 2:36:08
  then the lights come on for Invisible Enemy and it goes
• 2:36:10
  cheap for Graham Williams that I always think Horror of Fangrock
• 2:36:13
  is yeah, I haven't watched very much.
• 2:36:16
  I don't know Who am I going on in that?
• 2:36:18
  Who am? I oh, yeah.
• 2:36:21
  Who am I? Yeah.
• 2:36:24
  Oh no. The Tom Baker's face carved into
• 2:36:27
  Mount Rushmore. Back.
• 2:36:28
  Yeah, great. I mean.
• 2:36:29
  The execution's not brilliant, but the idea is great, yeah.
• 2:36:31
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the point we're
• 2:36:34
  trying to make here is there are many.
• 2:36:36
  If you think it's like some of the best Cliff Angus's up to,
• 2:36:39
  you'd probably bank that over 70% there would be from this
• 2:36:42
  era. Yeah, I I'd say the other 30%
• 2:36:46
  that probably from Hartnell's time he knew how to do a
• 2:36:48
  cliffhanger as well. Anything.
• 2:36:51
  Anything. When?
• 2:36:54
  He's. Three in the in the sensor
• 2:37:01
  rights when he's down in the pipes and he hears that noise
• 2:37:04
  and he goes. Yeah.
• 2:37:08
  This is before they went to the closer to the doctor's face in
• 2:37:11
  the 80s. That's that's the one sad thing
• 2:37:14
  about the Colon era, isn't it? Just every cliffhanger.
• 2:37:17
  Hang on, hang on a second. Benjamin Varos has a brilliant
• 2:37:21
  cliffhanger in the middle. Yeah.
• 2:37:22
  But you have a comes up of his face just before that.
• 2:37:28
  It's the laugh that makes that one.
• 2:37:30
  It's close up on his face is that polystyrene bust that comes
• 2:37:33
  at the camera in Revelation. Of the face it's still a.
• 2:37:37
  Gentleman and Jay go light foot together.
• 2:37:40
  Yeah, we should have a minute. Silence.
• 2:37:42
  It's a. Throat when they meet here.
• 2:37:43
  And this is where they go with the.
• 2:37:44
  Housekeeper. He goes you're.
• 2:37:46
  Kind of do it, he goes. Those brows, Those eyes.
• 2:37:50
  England's peerless premier professor of pathology.
• 2:37:55
  Oh, it's great. But do you know what this is a
• 2:37:58
  long standing thing, especially in comedy, of having like the
• 2:38:02
  class thing that's going on here, somebody who's upper
• 2:38:05
  class, somebody who's working class, coming together.
• 2:38:08
  And it's very funny and very touching.
• 2:38:11
  Yeah, it's it's marvellous. And I love the bit where Jago's
• 2:38:17
  really scared and says I'm going to let the side down.
• 2:38:19
  And then life said no, I know you won't.
• 2:38:23
  That's great. It's great.
• 2:38:25
  And again, it's the sort of thing you don't have time for
• 2:38:27
  these. Days.
• 2:38:29
  No, it's. Moving out such a lick you just.
• 2:38:31
  I'm not saying you can't have decent characterisation because
• 2:38:33
  you can. Usually in the two parties
• 2:38:35
  there's a bit of time, yeah, but you don't spend this amount of
• 2:38:39
  time with people and. It's great as we as the audience
• 2:38:41
  have seen both these characters with the Doctor doing different
• 2:38:44
  things in various parts of the story and now we're seeing them
• 2:38:47
  come together. So it doesn't matter that
• 2:38:48
  there's quite a bit of time without the Doctor and Leela.
• 2:38:51
  We we know these characters well by.
• 2:38:53
  Now, I think it's that that allows them to be separate
• 2:38:56
  characters as well, isn't it? It allows them to stand on their
• 2:38:58
  own as. To.
• 2:39:00
  Like Jago and Lightfoot, it's not like the it's not like the
• 2:39:03
  other Robert Holmes double actor.
• 2:39:04
  You go out to Double Axe because they've already been established
• 2:39:07
  on their own. You seen a bit there where
• 2:39:09
  Jago's complimenting him and Lightfoot just goes, yes, very.
• 2:39:14
  That's just like you. That is awesome.
• 2:39:15
  You throw a compliment his way, he's exactly the same.
• 2:39:20
  That's a queer lot of paraphernalia.
• 2:39:22
  He must have been to my bedroom. You've actually done really
• 2:39:28
  well. I don't know if it's because
• 2:39:29
  we're doing this in the morning, but you've done really well and
• 2:39:31
  not going too far with the sexual jokes.
• 2:39:34
  I'll be careful today and I I can't blurt too much.
• 2:39:39
  I'm being observed. Like just one file.
• 2:39:47
  I think of the Cliff I was like there's nothing worse than just
• 2:39:50
  like a pathetic cliffhanger. And the one I always think of is
• 2:39:54
  the hungry earth when they just see the Silorian city and it.
• 2:39:59
  And that was it. Yeah, at that.
• 2:40:01
  No. Do you know what I hate?
• 2:40:02
  Is it? Just leaves, you say, flat when
• 2:40:04
  they do. False jeopardy like snake dives
• 2:40:07
  where she goes for like you've got a chance kill her and this
• 2:40:10
  is like. Any of those, we're going to
• 2:40:13
  kill the Doctor and you're like. Yeah, they're crap.
• 2:40:14
  Or just like someone puts a sword to his neck and go right.
• 2:40:17
  We're going to kill you. But I'll forgive it more in
• 2:40:19
  Classic because you get them every week.
• 2:40:21
  If there's a bad cliffhanger in new Doctor, it really wise.
• 2:40:25
  You know, I like a new Doctor who is when they do something a
• 2:40:27
  bit more interesting. I like the human nature one very
• 2:40:29
  much where it's like your choice, Yeah, it's great, you
• 2:40:33
  know, but it's it's more like a make a decision as to how this
• 2:40:36
  is going to go rather than you're in immediate jeopardy.
• 2:40:39
  It's great. Yeah, Russell is very good at
• 2:40:42
  that. He he He constantly wants to do
• 2:40:45
  a new cliffhanger, doesn't he, With his two powers, I think.
• 2:40:48
  Bad Wolf, is the Doctor telling the Darlings I'm coming for you.
• 2:40:52
  Yeah. There's a behind the scenes
• 2:40:55
  feature of Robert Shuman describing that.
• 2:40:57
  I don't know if you've seen it. Robert Shuman says it's his
• 2:41:00
  favorite cliffhanger and he describes it so well of why it
• 2:41:03
  works so well. It's quite.
• 2:41:04
  Terrific. Although I think, Oh my God, I
• 2:41:07
  can't believe I'm about to do this, especially with you
• 2:41:08
  present Steven Moffett can put together as I mean the
• 2:41:13
  cliffhanger at the end of Time of Angels where he's like, you
• 2:41:16
  don't put me in a trap and then shits the bubble.
• 2:41:19
  All right. Admittedly, Graham Norton did
• 2:41:21
  blunt that a little bit. But it's still a fantastic
• 2:41:24
  moment. I'm going to surprise you, but I
• 2:41:27
  don't think Moffat's that great at Cliff Angus, if I'm being
• 2:41:30
  honest. He's going on here.
• 2:41:33
  And like I much prefer the Russell T Davis ones because a
• 2:41:36
  lot of Stephen Moffat seems to be character is revealed to be
• 2:41:40
  someone. So you have like Missy or you
• 2:41:42
  have the War Doctor or I think it and.
• 2:41:46
  I think. It's not that.
• 2:41:47
  Good. The Pandorica Opens is the
• 2:41:49
  Pandorica opens, yeah. That is everything.
• 2:41:53
  You get all the screaming and then it cuts back to all the
• 2:41:57
  stars going out and it's just quiet, I think.
• 2:41:59
  That's right. That might be my favorite ever.
• 2:42:02
  Do we actually see Chang's disfigured leg now?
• 2:42:05
  No, but we are seeing them doing taking some heavy drugs.
• 2:42:11
  So this story's got it all, won't it?
• 2:42:12
  Prostitutes. Drugs.
• 2:42:15
  Yeah. And that's what I mean about it.
• 2:42:16
  Like it? It goes on the fine line because
• 2:42:19
  that's not what you think of when you think of talent to Wang
• 2:42:21
  Chang. Wait, if you've got that in a
• 2:42:24
  Doctor Who story, it's so easy to think, oh, that's the one
• 2:42:26
  with the drugs or the the prostitutes.
• 2:42:28
  You just don't think that. Drugs and prostitutes in every
• 2:42:31
  Doctor Who story just throw. Them right through big finishes.
• 2:42:34
  Next boxer in terms of like. Being adult though, the only
• 2:42:39
  story that comes close to this, these sort of elements is
• 2:42:43
  Revelation of the Dialects, which talks a bit about like
• 2:42:46
  necrophilia or if I say nose picking, then that's not that
• 2:42:50
  adult. Do you know what I mean?
• 2:42:52
  Yeah, it's got, it's got a few moments where you're like it's,
• 2:42:54
  I mean, cannibalism and all, like is.
• 2:42:57
  This appropriate obviously. Like all the highest rated
• 2:43:00
  Doctor Who stories are the serious ones.
• 2:43:04
  So is there actually something in the fact that maybe Doctor
• 2:43:09
  Who shouldn't be as silly as it can be?
• 2:43:12
  Because when you think my top, no, I'm just just the.
• 2:43:15
  The chase and time with the Rani, so I wouldn't agree with.
• 2:43:17
  That I'm just asking just generally like the ones that
• 2:43:20
  come at the top you you got your genesis, you got your caves,
• 2:43:22
  you've got this, they're all. Serious.
• 2:43:25
  Yeah, and they're the. Ones no stories on.
• 2:43:27
  Though, and they're the ones that people would say to show to
• 2:43:30
  somebody that hasn't seen Doctor Who.
• 2:43:32
  You wouldn't choose something like necessarily time with the
• 2:43:35
  Rani or something like that to show to a new but you would want
• 2:43:38
  to choose something. I don't know what I but that's
• 2:43:40
  yeah, you do go to those ones, don't you?
• 2:43:42
  Yeah, I think Genesis would be a really good one to show someone
• 2:43:47
  new. But then it's six parts.
• 2:43:48
  That's the only thing. I think it might pull me off.
• 2:43:50
  OK, Omar, dragging it up as male.
• 2:43:53
  No, I maybe it's changing a little bit now in terms of fan
• 2:43:56
  opinion generally like time Narani.
• 2:43:58
  But that's what you said, Joe. I'm so, I'm so with you.
• 2:44:01
  There's a reason I've not watched talent.
• 2:44:02
  I won't turn for like 2 years because it's.
• 2:44:06
  I couldn't sit through this all the time.
• 2:44:08
  It's great when I put it on. But.
• 2:44:11
  Whereas like, they go for my comfort ones, Yeah, And that's
• 2:44:15
  it. Like that.
• 2:44:16
  Rings of Akuten. Rings of No, genuinely though it
• 2:44:19
  is that whenever I'm thinking, oh just I'll put something off
• 2:44:23
  from Series 7, just slap that one with.
• 2:44:25
  It's your comfort one, isn't it? Crimson aura I'd put on.
• 2:44:28
  Oh, that's a good one. So that's a good. 1.
• 2:44:30
  Until Smith emerges and starts trying to snub Jenny and it gets
• 2:44:34
  a bit weird. Yeah, it's just funny, isn't it?
• 2:44:37
  It's just. It's just a.
• 2:44:38
  Gun. It's her will.
• 2:44:40
  She loves it. Cancelled.
• 2:44:47
  Oh dear. Oh OK.
• 2:44:49
  So now he's seen Jago and Lightfoot.
• 2:44:51
  Wait, he saw over the top. Look at him how he gestures with
• 2:44:55
  his hands. Yeah, Do you know what?
• 2:44:57
  I I might take back that comment from a couple of episodes ago
• 2:45:00
  where I said that he doesn't or he's the weakest part.
• 2:45:03
  I've actually been with the little bits of scene, quite
• 2:45:05
  impressed with Magnus Grill, I think I, I.
• 2:45:07
  Was just about to say he's not that big villain for me, though,
• 2:45:10
  he doesn't make that impact. What not big as in how he plays
• 2:45:13
  it, he's fairly well not. I don't know.
• 2:45:15
  He's just not part of. I think there's so many other
• 2:45:20
  elements in the story that he does get a little bit.
• 2:45:22
  He's not the most interesting element when he's meant to be
• 2:45:24
  the big bad, but I think I did him a disservice by saying that
• 2:45:27
  he's not that great. What does that say?
• 2:45:29
  Something about the rest of this story, then, when a very
• 2:45:32
  possible villain is the weakest part of it.
• 2:45:35
  Yeah, says that this story is just fucking great.
• 2:45:39
  Marvellous. Yeah.
• 2:45:41
  Oh dear. Look at these men.
• 2:45:42
  Oh, corks. Oh, that is the best.
• 2:45:45
  And, he says, backs to the wall. I've heard that a few times
• 2:45:52
  short of the glowing statue. I don't think I've ever noticed
• 2:45:55
  that before. That's.
• 2:45:56
  Just and look at the depth in the shot as well.
• 2:45:59
  Oh, I love that shot. The the moving towards sin and
• 2:46:03
  grill there in front of the dragon.
• 2:46:05
  I think David Maloney knew how to keep the show visually
• 2:46:10
  interesting all the time. If you look at his stories, the
• 2:46:12
  war games, Genesis and the Dalek Mind Rubber Mind.
• 2:46:15
  Yeah, and keep it looking good and not that cheap thing that is
• 2:46:20
  so easy for Doctor Who to if into.
• 2:46:22
  It ever fails. I think it's the budget rather
• 2:46:25
  than his ability to. Definitely.
• 2:46:31
  Oh, see, look, there's no sign of the Doctor Alila, here.
• 2:46:34
  They are literally holding this story.
• 2:46:35
  Out now, Yeah, you don't miss them.
• 2:46:36
  Which is confident, isn't it? From Robert Home's perspective,
• 2:46:39
  he's just wrote this on the page, but he knows how good the
• 2:46:42
  characters are already. Oh, look at Django's being
• 2:46:45
  strangled while we're at the theatre.
• 2:46:49
  So he doesn't know. Sorry, he's so funny.
• 2:46:53
  Even when he's been strangled, he's fucking hilarious.
• 2:46:59
  And Grill is like consistently violent throughout this as well.
• 2:47:04
  He's violent towards Lila, towards Jago, towards his Hench
• 2:47:07
  men. Lila's violent towards him.
• 2:47:09
  Lila's violent towards everyone, yeah.
• 2:47:12
  Lila gives as good as she's. Yeah, she does, Yeah.
• 2:47:16
  Where she comes in with a knife. Shouting diet.
• 2:47:18
  Bent face. I mean now we've been anti
• 2:47:22
  disablist as well, I bet. Not as bad as Time Lash, but.
• 2:47:27
  Well, do you know, it's funny you'd mentioned before about the
• 2:47:29
  Bond film because like it has very similar wrong values.
• 2:47:35
  Does that, that that it's exactly how a Bond film would
• 2:47:39
  treat like the Chinese, and it's exactly.
• 2:47:42
  They would be. They would be the Hench men as.
• 2:47:44
  Well, all the Bond films have a disabled villain most of the
• 2:47:47
  time. Got some sort of discipline,
• 2:47:48
  even the most recent one. It's still a thing they've not
• 2:47:52
  changed. And Leila would be the Bond
• 2:47:55
  girl. Yeah, we're saying this is Yodi
• 2:47:57
  James. Bond.
• 2:47:58
  It's no. It's probably too much of A
• 2:48:01
  stretch to say this is not who does James Bond, I bet.
• 2:48:05
  Spy for you, ask me. But also like the way the bosses
• 2:48:09
  build up. Usually in bonds, you have, you
• 2:48:11
  know, your little boss, and then you get the big bad.
• 2:48:13
  Like we've had Chang, he's gone now we've got grill.
• 2:48:18
  I missed the sins like that comedy scary henchman like your
• 2:48:21
  odd jobs. So there was.
• 2:48:22
  There's parallels. There is.
• 2:48:24
  Yeah, do you know what? He's a very fine line between
• 2:48:27
  being embarrassingly funny and very sinister, and Sin crosses
• 2:48:33
  that line beautifully. Yeah.
• 2:48:34
  Because you could be like, well, that's just an absurd dull.
• 2:48:37
  Then you put a you put a knife in his hand and make him laugh
• 2:48:41
  and he kills you. Well, that's scary what's
• 2:48:45
  occurring now. The Doctor's got the lattice
• 2:48:49
  thing. That's right.
• 2:48:51
  So they've, they've got the lattice, He's got the cabinet,
• 2:48:54
  yeah. See now this is spinning his
• 2:48:55
  plates a bit now in terms of law.
• 2:48:58
  Yeah, it's you're sort of waiting to get to the the the
• 2:49:01
  showdown at the end now a bit. But then you've got Lingala
• 2:49:04
  going. We'll get a weapons in fixed
• 2:49:07
  positions to guard the approaches.
• 2:49:09
  Like that. Story.
• 2:49:14
  Quite a bit, and then she's quite hanging out Cliff.
• 2:49:16
  Anyway, she pulls the mask off and.
• 2:49:18
  Yeah. I mean, that's good makeup.
• 2:49:21
  Really good. I've had a cold, it's good.
• 2:49:23
  And I've had snot tripled all over my face a bit like that.
• 2:49:25
  But you only see that glimpse of it.
• 2:49:26
  It's great you don't. Then he puts it back on and it's
• 2:49:29
  not like he's walking around like, but we know time lashed
• 2:49:31
  up, but you know that that's. Under, yeah.
• 2:49:32
  And that's definitely the right thing to do.
• 2:49:34
  And look at this. These two girls that are being
• 2:49:37
  kept in a dungeon for when he needs to suck them dry, I mean.
• 2:49:42
  That's. Horrible.
• 2:49:45
  You know what you're? Doing Honestly, I mean suck.
• 2:49:49
  Their life isn't dry. Ever since, it's all I said.
• 2:49:52
  Well done. You've just got out of sleep
• 2:49:56
  backs against the wall. I'm so sorry.
• 2:50:00
  Oh dear. No.
• 2:50:03
  But he he does say, doesn't he? What unspeakable horror is to to
• 2:50:06
  perform these two girls we know because we're Privy to what's
• 2:50:10
  happening. Yeah, they've been sucked.
• 2:50:13
  Well, they're going to get sucked anyway.
• 2:50:15
  Oh my God, is it episode 6 when they go in the dumb?
• 2:50:18
  Way. It's the dumb way.
• 2:50:18
  Yeah, that's. Quite funny, isn't it?
• 2:50:21
  It's the best Jago in Lightfoot scene.
• 2:50:22
  Dumb way. Oh.
• 2:50:28
  How you say Jago? Look at this.
• 2:50:30
  It's a dumb waiter. I'm not very peckish right now.
• 2:50:35
  I'm surprised you are too. I think I could play Jaco, you
• 2:50:39
  know. You'd be very good.
• 2:50:40
  Bombastic. You would be good.
• 2:50:41
  Yeah. Recast you.
• 2:50:47
  I say, I say, I say We'll teach those blighters a lesson yet.
• 2:50:54
  They. They put the wrong person where
• 2:50:56
  they chose the best with Joe Ford.
• 2:50:58
  I never realized how little Sergeant Quick is in this.
• 2:51:02
  It's just the first. Beginning isn't.
• 2:51:04
  It it's just in that tiny bit at the beginning, isn't it?
• 2:51:07
  Well, the ghouls only in one stage.
• 2:51:09
  She's about. History, isn't she?
• 2:51:14
  Oh, is there anyone from this story that hasn't?
• 2:51:15
  Is there anyone at all? OK, see.
• 2:51:20
  Casey. I think she might be the only.
• 2:51:22
  One There was a missing adventure as well with 4th
• 2:51:25
  Doctor and. The shadow of When.
• 2:51:27
  Cheyenne. Cheyenne, Yeah.
• 2:51:29
  What happens in? That David A McKinsey, Yeah.
• 2:51:32
  I've but I've got it but I've never read it.
• 2:51:34
  It's Mary Tan and it. Yeah, I might.
• 2:51:36
  I might look it up and see when it's set.
• 2:51:38
  What happened? Surprised.
• 2:51:39
  When she was in that one with Jago like for she doesn't go
• 2:51:41
  well. This all seems a bit familiar.
• 2:51:43
  Is. There a Is there a story?
• 2:51:45
  I feel like it could be on audio, where there's just Mr.
• 2:51:48
  Sin. Oh, I don't know.
• 2:51:51
  I don't know. I remember.
• 2:51:53
  Did he bring Mr. SIM back? It might be in possibly in
• 2:51:57
  Jagger and like Foot, but then I think they realise oh shit, you
• 2:52:01
  can't speak so that you you're listening to it and it's just.
• 2:52:04
  They Weeping angels that don't usually stop them.
• 2:52:07
  Oh well, it says here the Shadow Wing Chang.
• 2:52:09
  The only returning character from Talons is Mr. Sin.
• 2:52:13
  Or maybe it's that I think. It must be.
• 2:52:15
  Well, yeah, you don't. So he's on the cover.
• 2:52:16
  Look. So I'm not sure.
• 2:52:19
  Do you know? What is that Alistair Pearson
• 2:52:20
  doing? Those covers?
• 2:52:21
  Great. Those missing adventure covers
• 2:52:23
  was so. Yeah, I like them covers.
• 2:52:26
  Like like photorealistic covers. So we mentioned the 8th Doctor
• 2:52:30
  books a couple a couple of podcasts ago.
• 2:52:34
  I when I was in like 1213. What?
• 2:52:38
  Black sheep, you're talking about the covers.
• 2:52:40
  No, no, I just went out to 12/13.
• 2:52:42
  I just got the ones that sounded the most interested.
• 2:52:44
  So I had like the Infinity Doctors and the Ancestor Cell
• 2:52:47
  and I I used to read them and not have a bloody clue what was
• 2:52:51
  going on because I was because I was a kid.
• 2:52:53
  I didn't have any clue about the build up to it or anything.
• 2:52:56
  Oh, Grill's got Lila. Oh, in the in the in the shadow
• 2:53:02
  wing Cheyang, you got canine and canine's laser sets Mr. Sin's
• 2:53:05
  wooden parts on fire. Sorry.
• 2:53:08
  It's a really horrible face. What was that?
• 2:53:10
  Canine sets Mr. Sin's wooden parts on fire, apparently.
• 2:53:14
  In the book, that's a new. Wow.
• 2:53:19
  Imagine that as a as a like a fight directed, yeah.
• 2:53:23
  What is Lima doing with the Golf Club there before she gets she
• 2:53:27
  just fannying her out well? No, because she's, well, she's
• 2:53:29
  used it as a weapon. She don't know it's a Golf Club,
• 2:53:31
  does she? Yeah.
• 2:53:33
  So it's kind of. It's another.
• 2:53:34
  Cultural thing. Yeah.
• 2:53:35
  No, no, it's just. How do we rate that cliffhanger?
• 2:53:39
  It is. Good, but I prefer some of the
• 2:53:42
  others in this story. I think the Time cabinet one is
• 2:53:44
  the best one. It's great towards the end of a
• 2:53:47
  story where sometimes in 1/6 parter it can get a bit
• 2:53:50
  repetitive. It's great you've got that new
• 2:53:52
  element or that shock and it's an extra shock just to get you
• 2:53:56
  into Part 6. The the make up is brilliant.
• 2:54:00
  I've got some questions, fellas. You ready?
• 2:54:02
  Yeah. Lit Roundels at L Roundels asks,
• 2:54:06
  Did Doctor Who peek here? Is Tom Baker ever truly again,
• 2:54:11
  as focused and as powerful as he is here?
• 2:54:14
  And would this been a good place for Lila to leave?
• 2:54:18
  Oh, OK. Well, we saw it comes from the
• 2:54:21
  first two pieces. Yeah, Can we start from the
• 2:54:22
  start? What was the first one?
• 2:54:24
  Again, it did Doctor Who peek here, pretty much.
• 2:54:27
  Probably, yeah. Like when you think about it,
• 2:54:29
  obviously you get over high points throughout Doctor Who,
• 2:54:33
  but when we're talking, if we're talking consistency and the
• 2:54:36
  golden age and the audience probably.
• 2:54:41
  Yeah. In terms of like quality maybe
• 2:54:43
  until season 26 peak production. Value peak dialogue, peak
• 2:54:49
  direction and peak offensiveness.
• 2:54:51
  Yes. I'm peak audience now.
• 2:54:53
  I know City of Death, but that was obviously like the strike
• 2:54:56
  and everything. It was getting sort of. 11. 12
• 2:54:59
  million, wasn't it? Yeah.
• 2:55:00
  OK. Is Tom Baker ever truly again as
• 2:55:02
  focused and as powerful as he is here?
• 2:55:04
  So I think he's powerful and to be fair, focused in different
• 2:55:10
  episodes. But I think it's more by
• 2:55:13
  accident than than it is in the first three seasons.
• 2:55:18
  I think he works really hard and being focused on his character
• 2:55:22
  the first three and then he's earned the right to do what he
• 2:55:27
  wants with the role after that and to be honest, like let's he
• 2:55:30
  he was around for seven seasons, You wouldn't want him to keep
• 2:55:33
  playing it like this by the time season 18 came along.
• 2:55:37
  In his eras, he kind of there's different shades each time.
• 2:55:40
  Yeah, that's what I like about Capaldi's Eras as well.
• 2:55:44
  But no, he's he's definitely, that's powerful.
• 2:55:48
  I mean that bit in the pirate planet, but what's it for?
• 2:55:52
  Yes, I love. That.
• 2:55:53
  But then is there something to do with Tom Baker here after
• 2:55:56
  this? Philip Hinchcliffe's gone.
• 2:55:58
  So is that everybody since that he's known, since he started
• 2:56:02
  like Elizabeth Sladen's gone. Philip Hinchcliffe, It's a
• 2:56:06
  whole, it's just sort of Tom Baker now and a whole new lot
• 2:56:09
  of, I mean some of the products. Do you see what I mean?
• 2:56:11
  He's in charge now. Now he's been.
• 2:56:15
  There. Compared to everyone else and.
• 2:56:16
  Maybe that's where his ego got out of control.
• 2:56:18
  Yeah, so that's after this point.
• 2:56:20
  He's the longest. He was telling the directors,
• 2:56:22
  when we've done this, I. Think we the very first point.
• 2:56:24
  Because everything's changed. So maybe that might be the
• 2:56:27
  feeling after this then? I think, I think, yeah, yeah.
• 2:56:30
  When? When everybody that saw him into
• 2:56:32
  the show's gold. Yeah.
• 2:56:34
  It's just him, yeah, And his ego.
• 2:56:38
  Would this have been a good place for Leela to leave?
• 2:56:42
  I oh, I don't think so. She's only just started well.
• 2:56:45
  Only if they were going to do the series then she could be in
• 2:56:47
  it with Jayco Lightfoot. No, it's a really hard one,
• 2:56:51
  actually. Because yeah, she also just
• 2:56:53
  started, but she doesn't go anywhere for me.
• 2:56:56
  And I love, but like I said before, like Leela makes every
• 2:57:01
  story better in Christ. I wouldn't want season 15 to
• 2:57:05
  just be Tom Baker. He wanted the cabbage on his
• 2:57:09
  shoulder, didn't they? So yeah, I mean, and just think,
• 2:57:12
  if we didn't, if she left here, we never would about destination
• 2:57:15
  Nerva or returned to Telos. And that would have been a
• 2:57:17
  shocking loss to Doctor Who fandom, I think.
• 2:57:20
  That it would have been great for the character to to end
• 2:57:25
  here. Just have these three stories
• 2:57:27
  really strong. You go.
• 2:57:28
  Oh my God, I wish we had more. Yeah, that's it.
• 2:57:31
  That's it. Oh my God.
• 2:57:33
  But how? She left anybody from the time.
• 2:57:36
  But no, I mean no. It's my answer.
• 2:57:39
  I like Lila. I'd want more there.
• 2:57:40
  There was thoughts of her bringing bringing her back at
• 2:57:43
  the end of season 18. I had to love that.
• 2:57:46
  And yeah, any any big finish that she's in has made better.
• 2:57:49
  The War Doctor sets are pretty dreary and then she turns up
• 2:57:52
  towards the end and makes it a million times better.
• 2:57:56
  She's writing the Gallifrey series, Her continued story in
• 2:58:00
  that. I'm too scared to go neither.
• 2:58:05
  It's great. It's like The West Wing on
• 2:58:08
  Gallifrey. It's amazing.
• 2:58:09
  Isn't it, I think. It's called drama.
• 2:58:10
  It's Belinda Bellingham as the Mad Inquisitor.
• 2:58:14
  Dark all. Yeah, they're brilliant.
• 2:58:17
  Jesus, we're going to start a big finish by Mr. Michael says.
• 2:58:21
  Examine the significance of the relationship between Jago and
• 2:58:24
  Lightfoot in this story. I think we've done that as well.
• 2:58:30
  I'm only going to go over the fact that's 13.
• 2:58:33
  But all I'll say is this, yeah, is, is that.
• 2:58:36
  And I would do this reading on anybody at all, but I don't
• 2:58:40
  think they're at it. That's how charmingly this is
• 2:58:44
  played and written is. I will not even say that men in
• 2:58:48
  close quarters in danger together.
• 2:58:51
  Not at it. I think the best thing is that
• 2:58:55
  they feel like very close friends from the instant they
• 2:58:58
  meet each other. Yes.
• 2:59:01
  And I think I've said this a million times before and I'm
• 2:59:03
  going to say it again, because point worth making is the best
• 2:59:06
  characters in Doctor Who are the ones that you believe had a life
• 2:59:09
  before the story began and would go on to have a life after the
• 2:59:12
  story. And some characters feel like
• 2:59:14
  they're just tailor made for the Doctor Who's story, and there's
• 2:59:17
  nothing to them beyond that. These two feel fleshed out
• 2:59:21
  before, after, and during. Yeah, I think so.
• 2:59:23
  You could write spin off books like Lightfoot's memoirs of his
• 2:59:27
  time before, you know, like do that.
• 2:59:30
  And same with JD You could write their life stories as like.
• 2:59:33
  A fucking money to be finished as it is.
• 2:59:35
  Not Big Finish, just a. Just a book.
• 2:59:37
  Just a book. You could publish that.
• 2:59:39
  It would be really interesting. You could make up these whole
• 2:59:42
  free, you know, lives for them. Have you seen this a this soft
• 2:59:47
  topic? But there's a story set from the
• 2:59:50
  perspective of Bessie, yes. Oh my God, yes.
• 2:59:54
  And it's read by one of my favorite actually, Stephanie
• 2:59:56
  Cole. It's meant to be really good.
• 2:59:58
  Yeah, I've not heard it, but. Remember when she was in Big
• 3:00:00
  Finish? Oh no.
• 3:00:02
  That was the abandoned as written by Louise Jameson.
• 3:00:05
  I've not got to that one yet. Oh, it's really terrible.
• 3:00:08
  I've I've just finished the Evil 1, which was very disappointing.
• 3:00:12
  Oh. Yeah, the Master brainwashes
• 3:00:15
  Lila, using memories of her dad to kill the Doctor.
• 3:00:19
  It's got to be bricks. I had so many elements that
• 3:00:24
  should have been great and it just didn't even do any sort of
• 3:00:29
  new take on Who am I I was waiting for who am I the whole
• 3:00:31
  time? No.
• 3:00:33
  Well, I have to say, boys, that there will be a ping without a
• 3:00:36
  pong if we don't get a shift. Oh God.
• 3:00:39
  So let's out this episode with her goodbye.
• 3:00:44
  Bye now, OK. Hamster with a blunt pen knife
• 3:01:23
  for doing. Quicker, quicker.
• 3:01:28
  Quicker welcome everybody to hamster with a blunt pen.
• 3:01:32
  Knife. I don't know why I'm saying it
• 3:01:34
  like that. I've started to do my Palace
• 3:01:38
  Theatre talk, but it's just it's gone off now.
• 3:01:40
  Welcome to the talent of Weng Cheyenne commentary.
• 3:01:44
  We are on Part 6 and I'm joined. Oh, I'm Mark And I'm joined by
• 3:01:48
  Luke from Lost on Gallifrey. Say hello.
• 3:01:50
  Hello. And Joe from Hamster with the
• 3:01:53
  bump penknife. Yeah, that's this.
• 3:01:55
  Which is this? Roll up, roll up.
• 3:02:00
  Yes. And as I said, it's past six how
• 3:02:05
  how we all feeling about this story as we so far been.
• 3:02:09
  Here we're we're a lot of men talking about.
• 3:02:11
  It's been marvellous. Yeah, no, it's great.
• 3:02:14
  It is great. I've not watched anything.
• 3:02:16
  I've been looking at YouTube. We haven't actually been looking
• 3:02:19
  at the screen, have we? Entirely understandable.
• 3:02:23
  But we've we've learnt a lot so far about the world of the
• 3:02:27
  Talons of Weng Chiang, that all these different spin offs and
• 3:02:30
  characters having these other lives beyond this story, Is this
• 3:02:34
  story got the most? Sort of.
• 3:02:35
  I think that's the theme of this podcast.
• 3:02:37
  Like these these episodes, isn't it?
• 3:02:39
  That there's been a whole world created from the Tans Weng
• 3:02:42
  Chiang. It's it's the most inspirational
• 3:02:45
  Doctor Who story there's ever been.
• 3:02:47
  Yeah. And it creates a world on
• 3:02:49
  screen. It does, yeah.
• 3:02:51
  And because, as we've said, it pulls in all those sources.
• 3:02:54
  It's so potent, isn't it? It's it's the atmosphere is
• 3:02:58
  tangible. You said you said in part one
• 3:03:02
  Rich. That's what I think of the
• 3:03:03
  talents, the the costumes, the set in the characters.
• 3:03:06
  So rich, isn't it so good? Now, Well, that's Is the climax
• 3:03:11
  as good as what's come before? Usually not.
• 3:03:15
  Shall we see? Well, let's see.
• 3:03:16
  I beg to differ, but let's find out.
• 3:03:18
  Actually, no. In Hinchcliffe time, I do find
• 3:03:20
  the episode fours are often fairly disappointing.
• 3:03:24
  Mandragorite sort of limps to an end.
• 3:03:26
  Oh well, that's shit. It's sort of limps to an end.
• 3:03:29
  She's. Permits to Mars.
• 3:03:30
  It's limits to an end. Then I actually prefer episode 4
• 3:03:35
  of Permits to Mars, then the first three that come before.
• 3:03:39
  He's just being contrary. I swear it's good for your cue,
• 3:03:46
  honestly. Jesus.
• 3:03:47
  Christ. All right.
• 3:03:48
  Should we skip into six? Let's.
• 3:03:50
  Go Let's do it. OK.
• 3:03:51
  Should we count? Down. 321 Go.
• 3:03:56
  Corks. Start at 5 anymore, I think
• 3:04:01
  about 5. Because ping pong's at 2, isn't
• 3:04:02
  it? Yeah, that's right.
• 3:04:05
  Yeah. OK.
• 3:04:06
  Yes. We can't miss the Ping Pongs,
• 3:04:08
  right. OK, so Episode 6, Climactic
• 3:04:11
  Ending of Talent. I can't remember at all what
• 3:04:13
  happens in this. Episode.
• 3:04:14
  It's. Slightly ever so.
• 3:04:17
  Slightly rushed, isn't it? But.
• 3:04:19
  I know six episodes. That's a hell of a statement.
• 3:04:23
  They've got a rescue, are they? Where are we?
• 3:04:26
  It's got nothing on frontier, on space.
• 3:04:28
  What Episode 6? Yeah.
• 3:04:31
  Doesn't even have an ending because.
• 3:04:33
  That's a rush. Yeah, that's just a rush.
• 3:04:37
  But OK, so essentially what happens here is you get a lot of
• 3:04:41
  dialogue between the Doctor and Magnus Grill talking about the
• 3:04:44
  crimes that he's done in the future and the failed experiment
• 3:04:48
  and his disfigurement and all of that.
• 3:04:51
  They have to rescue Jayco and Lightfoot because we love them,
• 3:04:54
  so they need to be rescued and then there's an action set piece
• 3:04:57
  with the dragon and Mr. Sin isn't there?
• 3:05:00
  Yeah. And that's about it.
• 3:05:02
  Oh well, we haven't got watch it now, I've just told you.
• 3:05:04
  And here we are with the recap, and Leela is going to rip the
• 3:05:07
  mask off. Is she wearing a wig?
• 3:05:10
  Nothing that has. Just no.
• 3:05:11
  I think they've done a hair like that.
• 3:05:13
  She really suits that her. Do you know what?
• 3:05:15
  Right. I'm going to tell you a story
• 3:05:17
  Once Upon a time, OK, I I was on Grinder, the gay sex app, and I
• 3:05:23
  was sent a photograph across of somebody else like, oh, he's
• 3:05:27
  very nice, I'll go meet him. Anyway, I went to meet him,
• 3:05:30
  right? And what turned up was someone a
• 3:05:32
  bit like I've been. Catfished.
• 3:05:35
  The butcher of Brisbane himself. Honestly, he lured me in with a
• 3:05:41
  picture of Taylor Lautner. I'm joking.
• 3:05:47
  Oh, you've got to fill the time somehow.
• 3:05:51
  I love that mass, though, if someone turned up in my house in
• 3:05:56
  the dark wearing that mask. So who's sexier?
• 3:05:59
  Magnus Grill or. Sharra's check.
• 3:06:02
  Yeah. Sharra's check is very feminine.
• 3:06:06
  He's got eye eyelashes and things like Mr. Blobby.
• 3:06:08
  I know he's in tight. He's in tight like come Mr.
• 3:06:11
  Blobby again, he's in tight lever, isn't he?
• 3:06:14
  I don't want you to know how much we watch.
• 3:06:16
  Mr. In this house, honestly. I'm thinking about getting a Mr.
• 3:06:22
  Blobby bedspread at. Least you're not spreading Mr.
• 3:06:26
  Blobby on the bed. I don't quite know what to say
• 3:06:32
  to that. GIMP marks are a bit of a thing
• 3:06:36
  though, in the 70s, aren't they? Like what?
• 3:06:38
  Happening are. They in Underworld.
• 3:06:40
  They're wearing those very strange masks in that, aren't
• 3:06:42
  they? OK, I can't think of any.
• 3:06:44
  Oh, we know. There's.
• 3:06:46
  Dalek. And Pirate Planet I.
• 3:06:47
  Was going to say in the Dalek films as well, The Robo Men,
• 3:06:50
  That's the whole, yeah, very BDSM.
• 3:06:53
  That's very sort of PVC, isn't it?
• 3:06:55
  Sort of fetish suit, this sort of silver suit.
• 3:06:58
  Sorry, I've got into 30 years and so what's the name?
• 3:07:01
  Oh, oh, don't. Worry, He talks.
• 3:07:03
  About, Oh, it will call you the side of that.
• 3:07:06
  Yeah, yeah. It was kind of romantically put
• 3:07:09
  that he was Regina, right? Love, you're obsessed with sexy.
• 3:07:15
  He's got very large sleeves. Isn't it great that like because
• 3:07:21
  you've got Grill just shouting his head off for the Doctor?
• 3:07:24
  It just makes it so much more charming that the Doctor's just
• 3:07:28
  smiling back the whole time. I just the detail on those
• 3:07:31
  costumes. I sound like drew nuts in it but
• 3:07:33
  it's amazing. Just that weaving the patterns
• 3:07:36
  on magnet on his if you look at the, he's like Cape and
• 3:07:39
  everything. It's really rich.
• 3:07:42
  Rich, yeah. Rich.
• 3:07:44
  Rich, yes. And.
• 3:07:45
  You don't even have to go into cyberspace, do you?
• 3:07:48
  It's. All done by cyberspace.
• 3:07:50
  Did you ever hear? Her of that behind the sofas on
• 3:07:53
  Season 18, Jane Hudson. Yeah, she's like, I love the
• 3:07:56
  special effects here. Nowadays, it's all done in
• 3:07:59
  cyberspace. Dear Oh dear.
• 3:08:06
  What's great as well with the tronic lasses?
• 3:08:08
  It looks like a probe and yet he's saying, you know, it's very
• 3:08:11
  fragile and I'm going to break it When he eventually does smash
• 3:08:15
  it. Oh yeah, it smashes into a
• 3:08:16
  million. Yes, loads of shards, isn't it?
• 3:08:20
  Oh, he missed the silly. It's creepy, isn't he?
• 3:08:23
  D Roy don't have to do much. He's got to walk out of room and
• 3:08:25
  he's scary. I actually really like clearly
• 3:08:29
  say like that. Yeah, I do.
• 3:08:31
  I have such a lovely look, friend.
• 3:08:32
  She's still got the knife. Look.
• 3:08:37
  We were talking about Leela. Possibly this could, you know,
• 3:08:41
  if this was her last story. Just doing a bit more online
• 3:08:44
  reading. Apparently Philip Hinchcliffe
• 3:08:49
  had said to her she'd only be into the end of this season, and
• 3:08:54
  then when Graham Williams came along, he offered her to stay
• 3:08:57
  on. And then, because it was a lot,
• 3:08:59
  Tom Baker wasn't expecting her to stay on.
• 3:09:03
  So that's where it was a bit. That's where he was, a grumpy
• 3:09:06
  bugger and. Yeah, he he was told that she'll
• 3:09:08
  be written out at the end of season 14 because he didn't like
• 3:09:12
  the violence of the character I. Mean with Graham Williams?
• 3:09:15
  Coming in changed it. So I think a lot with Graham
• 3:09:17
  Williams coming in changed, you know, the course of a lot of
• 3:09:19
  things. There was every chance he could
• 3:09:21
  have wanted to bring in his own companion as well.
• 3:09:23
  Yeah, you can just send that, yeah.
• 3:09:26
  I think she'd made enough of an impact though, though, because
• 3:09:28
  he wanted her to 16, didn't he? At the that's why.
• 3:09:31
  Yeah, I. Was so rushed at the end but.
• 3:09:34
  Then, apparently, when Williams said she can change her, she
• 3:09:37
  doesn't have to wear the contact lenses she signed for Season 15.
• 3:09:40
  That was part of her one of her requests.
• 3:09:43
  Yeah, no, that's fair. We've got a really touching
• 3:09:45
  scene between Jogo and Lights for now.
• 3:09:47
  This is where we stopped the bravado for a second and just
• 3:09:50
  humanizes them a little bit more.
• 3:09:53
  I love that though. He has been all bluster and now
• 3:09:56
  the defences are down because he's found somebody you can
• 3:09:59
  confide in. It's so, so good.
• 3:10:04
  You know, and Holmes is really good at doing that stuff.
• 3:10:08
  In Rebus, we've like been Ro the Heretic and find those moments
• 3:10:12
  of humanity in between all the, you know, all the plot and all
• 3:10:15
  the action. It's something that I think only
• 3:10:18
  Russell has in the modern era, something only really he he can
• 3:10:23
  manage to do is to find the moments of humanity.
• 3:10:27
  We. Found not not saying this.
• 3:10:28
  Love monsters, didn't we? When we talked about that, there
• 3:10:31
  was just so many potent moments. Yeah, yeah.
• 3:10:33
  And it's such a what a funny, silly, dark episode.
• 3:10:38
  The same. So much in it.
• 3:10:39
  But he'll find them. I think he calls it turning in
• 3:10:43
  his, you know, in the writer's tale, he says it's turning a
• 3:10:47
  character and just finding a new, like, shade to throw on
• 3:10:50
  them. Like Jackie Tyler, he finds the
• 3:10:55
  photo and says. You're perv.
• 3:10:59
  But now let me tell you how hard it is being left behind.
• 3:11:02
  Because that's what it makes you hard.
• 3:11:05
  Yeah. We've got I've Got My Love and
• 3:11:07
  Monsters quota in there. Yeah, let's get Mr. Still on
• 3:11:10
  that Jagger I love. Mr. Still on the Dragon?
• 3:11:15
  So this is basically everything they say.
• 3:11:17
  Now Mark Platt is taking note of to write He's been a finish
• 3:11:20
  story of the Brisbane. Yeah, I am Magnus Grill and he
• 3:11:27
  knocks the chest piece over. Oh come on, he's giving this a
• 3:11:31
  bit of Willy, this performance, the infamous Minister of
• 3:11:36
  Justice. That must be in that audio.
• 3:11:39
  I'm sure it is. I'm sure all of this is who.
• 3:11:40
  Plays Magnus Grill in that will you?
• 3:11:43
  Just a bit of research please while we're talking.
• 3:11:45
  Thank. You very much.
• 3:11:46
  Now, I've just noticed, Luke, you've got a nice scabby Magnus
• 3:11:49
  grill right in front of you there.
• 3:11:50
  I have an Eagle Moth Swan. And a Tom Maker and the Season
• 3:11:54
  14 console. Yeah.
• 3:11:57
  I mean, do you have a Honestly, is your house full of toys?
• 3:12:01
  Yeah, Do you want to see? Yeah.
• 3:12:04
  I'll show you what's talented. I'm talking about Doctor Who
• 3:12:07
  toys. Oh.
• 3:12:07
  No, can't see them. Did you ever get the the This is
• 3:12:16
  the Eagle Moth one, But they released the character options
• 3:12:19
  Magnus Grier and Mr. Sin together.
• 3:12:21
  I used to love that. Got it at home.
• 3:12:24
  Yeah, I've got them. Yeah, I've never got them.
• 3:12:26
  There they never released the Mr. Sin Eagle Moths one do.
• 3:12:29
  You know what I'd love to have is that dragon.
• 3:12:31
  I'd love to have the jogging. I'm.
• 3:12:33
  Amazing that that be a little time with with.
• 3:12:36
  With a little Mr. Sin at the control of it.
• 3:12:39
  Yes, mind you, but you could pick go through all the Doctor
• 3:12:43
  Who and say I'd love that. That's what Eagle Moss were
• 3:12:45
  doing. Did they do a zombie?
• 3:12:47
  Yeah. Oh, OK.
• 3:12:49
  I'm really gutted that it's it's gone did.
• 3:12:52
  You see that shagger went, it's all up for you.
• 3:12:56
  We've got the place around it. But it was like, no, no, we
• 3:12:58
  haven't got the place around it. Shut up.
• 3:12:59
  All right. Oh, dear.
• 3:13:03
  It's so, so funny. Oh, the doctors.
• 3:13:09
  That's right. No life.
• 3:13:11
  Doctors just be shot by a dragon.
• 3:13:13
  Life. It says, you know, there's two
• 3:13:15
  wretches down in the Cellars. We need to get them out of
• 3:13:17
  there. Two wretches.
• 3:13:19
  That's a bit mean. So are you basically saying that
• 3:13:25
  you don't think Magnus Girl is the greatest villain of the
• 3:13:27
  Hinchcliffe era? No, he's not.
• 3:13:30
  No, not at all. So he's not, he's not going out
• 3:13:32
  of his best then? I mean, technically, Dave Ross
• 3:13:35
  is probably the best, isn't he? Sue Tech.
• 3:13:38
  Oh, Mobius. Fuck Sue Tech.
• 3:13:42
  I'd rather not on that chair for a while.
• 3:13:45
  He's got a numb bubble. No, I don't like Sue Tech.
• 3:13:51
  Morbius. Yeah, I think Morbius has got
• 3:13:54
  enough grandiose leftovers. Well, the master, though, is
• 3:13:58
  good that The Cave Master is good.
• 3:13:59
  It's. Disgusting fried eggy eyes.
• 3:14:04
  Yeah, so that's what they're like.
• 3:14:09
  So he's getting the the time cabinet sorted out.
• 3:14:12
  We've got a bit of technology. Here, I know, but you know what?
• 3:14:14
  They could have done A bit of a that looks a bit cheap, doesn't
• 3:14:17
  it? A cabinet?
• 3:14:18
  A couple. Of a little bit.
• 3:14:20
  Wootan look better than that. I listen to, I listen to a big
• 3:14:26
  fish all day where Wootan sort of comes back.
• 3:14:29
  I think, I think we're learning about big finishes.
• 3:14:31
  They're just. Doing They touch everything.
• 3:14:34
  They touch everything, yeah. Lickers, Briggs, get your hands
• 3:14:38
  off things. All right, stop touching
• 3:14:39
  everything. I'll see that Doctors
• 3:14:42
  unconscious. Keeping the plot going, this
• 3:14:46
  lovely pair, honestly, would you imagine, I was about to say,
• 3:14:50
  would you imagine their adventures will be like but
• 3:14:52
  we've got 30 series? Of it?
• 3:14:54
  Plenty of no. No, but if it had been on TV,
• 3:14:56
  would it have been science fiction?
• 3:14:58
  Or would it have been drama or comedy?
• 3:15:00
  Or what would it have been? I think you'd have to get the
• 3:15:02
  comedy in there, wouldn't you? You'd lose everything about it.
• 3:15:05
  Would it be fantasy? Or would it be more like?
• 3:15:09
  Setting I know what you. Mean more like Sherlock Holmes?
• 3:15:11
  Yeah, Sherlock. Holmes or Sherlock?
• 3:15:13
  Holmes and Aliens. Sherlock Holmes and Aliens.
• 3:15:16
  That's the, isn't it? I think it probably would have
• 3:15:21
  lost the aliens. Do you?
• 3:15:22
  I think it. I think they might have just
• 3:15:25
  played it. You could have done all sort of
• 3:15:27
  like they do in those early years, like vampires and things
• 3:15:30
  like that, that kind of. Who do audience?
• 3:15:33
  Be though, Would it be the kids watching?
• 3:15:34
  Not like the family audience. The same sort of time.
• 3:15:38
  Slot any weird show that definitely is the same
• 3:15:41
  apocalyptic drama like Survivors or those people that love the
• 3:15:44
  idea of a pandemic wiping out of the Earth.
• 3:15:47
  Yeah, those people. What's going on now?
• 3:15:54
  Oh oh, this is his line, isn't it?
• 3:15:56
  The talons of Wang Chiang. Oh no, he hasn't got the girls
• 3:16:00
  down yet. I think that also confused me as
• 3:16:04
  a kid was that I didn't know when Chiang was and the story
• 3:16:09
  was called talents of Wang Chiang.
• 3:16:11
  Because you have, you have Chang, you have Magnus Grill and
• 3:16:14
  and I don't. I think I was waiting for Wen
• 3:16:16
  Chiang to turn off at some point.
• 3:16:18
  Oh, OK, look at Leila coming up behind him now.
• 3:16:21
  Because that's what the story's called, but it's a great title.
• 3:16:25
  It does say at some point he was the great God Wen Chi.
• 3:16:28
  Yeah, it does. Line or two though.
• 3:16:30
  But it's not. It's not a big part of the
• 3:16:31
  story, is it? And I also think as well as a
• 3:16:33
  child, and I'll not talk about you here, but in general, So you
• 3:16:37
  don't like up all the details, do you?
• 3:16:39
  You just. No.
• 3:16:41
  Swept along with the. Action.
• 3:16:43
  Is Leela doing her best? Oh, she's this bit now where
• 3:16:46
  she's just like I shall not please you.
• 3:16:50
  Can't you just can't imagine it? Can't you cannot imagine like,
• 3:16:54
  oh, I don't know, Amy Pond? Like jumping on Prisoner's era
• 3:16:58
  with a knife and trying to start it.
• 3:17:00
  He went straight at her breast with that knife.
• 3:17:03
  No, no, no. I'm not being stupid.
• 3:17:05
  That would never be on television now, Not for
• 3:17:08
  children. I don't.
• 3:17:10
  Well, none of the knife stuff was.
• 3:17:11
  It's just become such a big issue.
• 3:17:13
  Do you? Think of any knife play at all
• 3:17:15
  in the new. No, the most of the time they
• 3:17:19
  didn't even have that many real guns.
• 3:17:21
  Really. It's usually laser guns and
• 3:17:22
  stuff like that. They even took out that scene
• 3:17:25
  and those the politician or someone died, didn't they, That
• 3:17:27
  way in Robot or Sherwood, where someone was decapitated with a
• 3:17:31
  sword. Yeah, which was like.
• 3:17:34
  The main. It was a it was a broad whilst I
• 3:17:36
  think it was in today. There's some, some and abroad.
• 3:17:40
  Somehow is less frightening, isn't it, than a a knife in your
• 3:17:44
  hand. But like that one, that was like
• 3:17:46
  the whole point of the story wasn't it was that he was a
• 3:17:50
  robot and but we never found that out in the finished court.
• 3:17:54
  Very odd, but like like scenes like Cara being stabbed in
• 3:17:58
  Revelation of Dialects or Paradise Towers where she's got
• 3:18:02
  the the knife to melt. Oh, that?
• 3:18:04
  Yeah, that's even. I think that.
• 3:18:06
  I think that's a bit much when I'm watching Paradise Stars.
• 3:18:09
  Well, because it's such a bloody farce otherwise.
• 3:18:11
  Yeah, really unnerving them too. They're trying to work out how
• 3:18:20
  to get out of this that it's sort of like a gas.
• 3:18:24
  He's setting up a gas thing or? A That's right.
• 3:18:26
  Something like that. They could basically blow up the
• 3:18:29
  door. Very clever.
• 3:18:31
  Oh, and he says to the girls that just just run, all right?
• 3:18:34
  Just like staring like what is that they have no real like.
• 3:18:40
  Would they would? They they were just learning
• 3:18:41
  about their. Business just like.
• 3:18:43
  They were hypnotized by faces look.
• 3:18:45
  Like. Two definitely porcelain dolls
• 3:18:49
  tonight. Here.
• 3:18:52
  We go, we've got real fire in the studio.
• 3:18:54
  What to say. I think they were they.
• 3:18:56
  They say you don't need the making of this filming this last
• 3:19:00
  episode. They were really up against it
• 3:19:01
  with time because of all the effects and.
• 3:19:03
  The and stuff. And lastly, they were really
• 3:19:05
  struggling where the. Tables being dismantled and all
• 3:19:07
  of that. I think they went.
• 3:19:08
  Over time, quite a lot. And you can imagine us taking
• 3:19:10
  ages to. Yeah, he can't.
• 3:19:13
  He just goes right. Pay him the overtime.
• 3:19:15
  I'm off. Yeah.
• 3:19:20
  That's it. The girls are free.
• 3:19:21
  The girls were out there. OK, so it's time for our big
• 3:19:24
  action set piece. Now Lila's in danger, tied up,
• 3:19:29
  about to be sucked dry by the machine.
• 3:19:31
  Talons of Witcher. Go keep going.
• 3:19:35
  Shred your flesh. He managed to make flesh have
• 3:19:39
  about 18 syllables. Pretty.
• 3:19:40
  Aggressive. I do like that red effect look.
• 3:19:47
  I do. I think it's it's just all it's
• 3:19:50
  weird, isn't it? It's strange and alien.
• 3:19:52
  And you don't do a. Doctor with a tomahawk.
• 3:19:54
  There's one thing Doctor Who should always be is a little bit
• 3:19:56
  weird. Yeah, because that's other
• 3:19:58
  conventional science fiction can do all the normal stuff.
• 3:20:02
  Yeah, which is why we've got Mr. Sit and fire and lasers out of
• 3:20:06
  the. But it's coming out of a dragon,
• 3:20:09
  See, It's weird. And then you've got Jago trying
• 3:20:11
  to draw their attention by going I say, I say, I say, you know.
• 3:20:17
  And a bit in a minute. You know when it is the doll and
• 3:20:19
  he and the doctor just like snaps him over his leg?
• 3:20:23
  I I still think that's weird. And that makes Mr. Sinn even
• 3:20:27
  weirder that when he picks him up, he's light as fucking
• 3:20:30
  anything. That's.
• 3:20:31
  Why? He's like slams him down.
• 3:20:33
  Yes, it's a proper back. He slams grill into that thing,
• 3:20:37
  into the machine well, he proper pushes him with.
• 3:20:41
  He can be. When he when he snaps Scorby's
• 3:20:43
  neck in. He's yeah, he does.
• 3:20:45
  I I thought he had. The first time I watched that, I
• 3:20:48
  thought he had proper snapped his neck.
• 3:20:49
  Obviously Deep Roy's never walked the same against.
• 3:20:53
  Is. He.
• 3:20:55
  And he gets that thing smashed right near his face.
• 3:20:57
  While he's lying on the floor, there's bits of lattice.
• 3:21:01
  What's it called again? Trionic.
• 3:21:03
  Trionic Lattice. Holmes could summon those words
• 3:21:06
  out of nowhere, couldn't they? It did, but the sort of
• 3:21:09
  gobbledygook that is accepting you.
• 3:21:12
  You accept that some of the gobbledygook inductee just like,
• 3:21:15
  oh, this sounds. What it is You've got Holmes
• 3:21:17
  doing it here, then you've got Douglas Adams doing it after
• 3:21:20
  that, and they all managed to make it very sayable and
• 3:21:22
  quotable. Then you've got Eric's War
• 3:21:23
  coming in and it's just tedious as hell.
• 3:21:25
  Yeah, it's it's finding the rhythm in words that are just
• 3:21:29
  meaningless. Gravitika Normaliser.
• 3:21:32
  There you go. Conceptual geometer.
• 3:21:37
  Very nice. Thank you.
• 3:21:42
  Oh my God, he merges all the Hench men now.
• 3:21:45
  Yeah, I love this. Bit.
• 3:21:47
  He is sadistic and their covers, but I love the bit where Grill
• 3:21:52
  tries to go. Oh, you come out now, I'll let
• 3:21:55
  you go. And you can see.
• 3:21:57
  That he goes, we're staying Putin.
• 3:21:59
  You know, it's not as funny as Android Zatara, though when
• 3:22:03
  Peter Jeffrey goes, if you come out now, you'll be spared.
• 3:22:06
  And the Doctor goes. Liar.
• 3:22:11
  Oh, this Atari's got a banging cliffhanger when he runs in and
• 3:22:14
  throws the spear at part. 1. That yeah, what a cliffhanger
• 3:22:20
  comes out and over. Oh, that's two, is it?
• 3:22:22
  That's two the correlation, yeah.
• 3:22:24
  Yeah, yeah. Wait, He smashes Mary Tab on the
• 3:22:26
  end? Yeah.
• 3:22:26
  Yeah, yeah, I was. So shocked when I first saw.
• 3:22:28
  That. Yeah.
• 3:22:28
  Yeah, me too. What a cliffhanger.
• 3:22:31
  Oh, this is great. Who are you?
• 3:22:33
  Shooting at Oh no. That's the Ming balls it.
• 3:22:39
  Goes. Oh, Mr. Blobby must be around
• 3:22:41
  Sorry and then sin. Is it Sin that kills Grill?
• 3:22:51
  Thinks. So that's his Achilles heel, is
• 3:22:53
  his psychotic little puppet. Kills everybody.
• 3:22:57
  Yeah, the doctor gets him in a minute and pushes him, doesn't
• 3:22:59
  he? I like that you don't know
• 3:23:01
  anything about Mr. Sin, like his motivations or anything.
• 3:23:04
  He's just a fucking he's just a sick fuck.
• 3:23:07
  And he just flips and. What's interesting?
• 3:23:08
  You see a tiny bit of the dynamic because Grill goes to
• 3:23:11
  him. Why don't you come down?
• 3:23:12
  Why are you sulking up there? Because I wouldn't let you kill
• 3:23:15
  the Doctor. Yeah, right.
• 3:23:18
  No, but sin does turn on him, doesn't he?
• 3:23:20
  He does turn their eyes on him. Sorry, there's that's why you
• 3:23:23
  asked the question was the Sigma experiment a success?
• 3:23:27
  A total? It was a brilliant, total
• 3:23:29
  success. As somebody who knows all the
• 3:23:33
  quotes, I did know that when I was reading it out, but I didn't
• 3:23:35
  want to point it out at the time.
• 3:23:40
  Show off. There he goes.
• 3:23:42
  This slap. Yeah, sorry for not being a real
• 3:23:45
  fun. Yeah, it's all right.
• 3:23:46
  Don't worry. Proper goes right that is a push
• 3:23:51
  that. Is it?
• 3:23:52
  And then And then he's sort of been held up as she touches him
• 3:23:55
  and he just crumples. Crumbles away and that's it.
• 3:24:00
  Well, do you know what they mention in a minute?
• 3:24:02
  Is Bent Face dead? Is that a line you could only
• 3:24:04
  get in Doctor Who? Probably.
• 3:24:07
  Yes. Oh, that is a great effect.
• 3:24:09
  Isn't it lovely? Isn't it?
• 3:24:10
  What did they say? Cellular.
• 3:24:12
  War. Cellular collapse?
• 3:24:14
  Oh. Fabulous boys, do you know the
• 3:24:19
  muffin man? The muffin man.
• 3:24:21
  The muffin. Oh yeah, I do.
• 3:24:23
  Where does he live? He.
• 3:24:24
  Comes up now, don't they? Oh, look at.
• 3:24:27
  This is an all the way first. Here we go proper.
• 3:24:29
  So I did. I love this.
• 3:24:32
  Oh my God. Did you see the camera then?
• 3:24:34
  Yeah, the camera swung into view.
• 3:24:36
  Break his back. I think they're running out of
• 3:24:38
  time here and they're just like slamming deep.
• 3:24:40
  Floor No. Deep, yeah, I'm sorted.
• 3:24:43
  It just rips his fucking spine out.
• 3:24:46
  I mean, that is the equivalent, isn't it?
• 3:24:48
  Yeah, what he's doing. It's his.
• 3:24:51
  Fuse. Oh, here we go.
• 3:24:54
  The trionic lattice. The Sigma experiment is maybe
• 3:24:58
  it's not wheel glass. Oh, that close.
• 3:25:00
  Deep Roy. Oh, I'll.
• 3:25:04
  Buy you some muffins. Come on, I'll buy you some
• 3:25:07
  muffins. It's a quick.
• 3:25:09
  Ending though, isn't it? I feel like very quick.
• 3:25:11
  I would have liked a. Coder in Lightfoot's house.
• 3:25:14
  Where they're all sitting around having a bit of tea.
• 3:25:15
  Could you? Oh.
• 3:25:16
  Like like Fury from the. Deep like at the end of that,
• 3:25:20
  that would have been nice. You could have got rid of that
• 3:25:22
  bit with the gas and trying to. Get out of that locked prison.
• 3:25:25
  They didn't need to be locked up.
• 3:25:26
  Really. There.
• 3:25:28
  No, that's true. No.
• 3:25:29
  No, they just got the girls out and I don't think it's the
• 3:25:31
  climax that is is rushed. It it it's because we suddenly.
• 3:25:35
  Fly off again. We've had six parts.
• 3:25:37
  Like, really in. In dosing in this world and then
• 3:25:42
  suddenly you're just off. Yeah, as soon as it's finished.
• 3:25:44
  Yeah, it's that sort of thing to be that indulgent for six
• 3:25:47
  episodes. And then and then just, yeah,
• 3:25:49
  maybe even if the final scene wasn't them, if we didn't see
• 3:25:53
  them fly. Off if the final scene was just
• 3:25:55
  in Victoria, London. It might not be.
• 3:25:57
  But then you do get this bit. Remember Lila going off of Andre
• 3:26:01
  was a bit weird. I mean, it wouldn't be any less
• 3:26:02
  weird if she said, oh, I fancy Jago, I'm staying here.
• 3:26:05
  No, it really wouldn't. You.
• 3:26:07
  Could see that her staying and then she lives with Lightfoot to
• 3:26:10
  he will teach her and be yeah he'd be like his ward or.
• 3:26:13
  Whatever the announcer could say.
• 3:26:14
  Easily do that coming to BBC in the autumn.
• 3:26:17
  Jago, Lightfoot and Lila. Sightly new adventure.
• 3:26:22
  Solving. The Ripper cases.
• 3:26:25
  Ah, bravo. What a classic.
• 3:26:28
  Absolutely amazing. Well, chaps, oh.
• 3:26:32
  We've got 10 minutes to. Do this.
• 3:26:33
  We've got to hurry, OK? 3.
• 3:26:35
  Reasons a piece. To recommend Towns Wing Chayang,
• 3:26:39
  we'll start with Luke, then Mark, then me.
• 3:26:41
  Luke. The world's the whole Victoriana
• 3:26:45
  world, as you. You mentioned cherry picking the
• 3:26:47
  best bits of that. You Jack the rippers.
• 3:26:50
  You, Sherlock Holmes, you fan of the opera?
• 3:26:53
  It's got such an atmosphere and a mood about it, whilst also
• 3:26:59
  being entertaining and funny, so it's not just like a dark dour
• 3:27:04
  thing. Yeah, the production values in
• 3:27:09
  this. The filming locations, the fog,
• 3:27:12
  the sets. The.
• 3:27:13
  Costumes or the look? Of this leave some for the rest
• 3:27:17
  coming please I should send the look generally I'm going.
• 3:27:21
  I'm going to recommend the. Incredibly witty scripts where.
• 3:27:26
  Practically every fucking. Line is quotable.
• 3:27:29
  And I've just proved that for the last six episodes, Luke, I
• 3:27:34
  I'll say Mr. Sin. Probably one of the only.
• 3:27:38
  The one of the only. Monsters.
• 3:27:40
  From classics or two that really sent the shivers at me and he's.
• 3:27:44
  You know, for someone that doesn't speak.
• 3:27:46
  As we mentioned, he's quite he feels like a proper character,
• 3:27:51
  like a psycho at the at the hands of the dragon and then
• 3:27:56
  also with the blood coming down his arm and it just creepy after
• 3:27:59
  creepy and he just really sends shivers for you.
• 3:28:03
  And yeah, the the pig Lovely touch.
• 3:28:08
  Jago and Lightfoot being Robert Holmes's best double act.
• 3:28:12
  And. Proving.
• 3:28:14
  It by having all. Of their ongoing.
• 3:28:15
  Adventures. I'm going to say all of the
• 3:28:19
  cliffhangers, which I think, as we pointed out, are stellar in
• 3:28:23
  the hinge Cliff era. But I agree.
• 3:28:25
  With Luke The best cliffhanger is Luke.
• 3:28:34
  All the stuff at the theatre in part 4.
• 3:28:37
  The the showdown between. Chang and the Doctor.
• 3:28:40
  The magic tricks the and then. Like the doctor sort of enjoying
• 3:28:45
  it all the way up to the point when Casey then falls like the
• 3:28:47
  cabinet dead. And that's the point where the
• 3:28:49
  story flips and we start going into Magnus squealing stuff
• 3:28:53
  later on. So yeah, Part 4 is is probably
• 3:28:55
  my favorite of of it all, but that sequence is fabulous.
• 3:29:01
  David Maloney, one of the best classic directors.
• 3:29:05
  This is his last story and he's going out on an absolute.
• 3:29:08
  High. He understands Doctor Who so
• 3:29:11
  well by this point and he can just he can just, he just gets
• 3:29:14
  it and it's a really well directed the only the only place
• 3:29:20
  we can possibly end this then is on the rat itself, the giant.
• 3:29:25
  Rat and Joe wife. Two reasons.
• 3:29:27
  One is because no matter how good a Doctor Who story is,
• 3:29:31
  we'll always be reminded this is still a Doctor Who story with a
• 3:29:35
  shitty monster turning up, but somehow the magic occurs.
• 3:29:40
  And that cliffhang out where Lee has been chewed by the rat due
• 3:29:43
  to the direction and her performance, the low lighting,
• 3:29:47
  they make it work like God knows how they make it work, even
• 3:29:52
  though it looks absolutely ridiculous.
• 3:29:55
  And so I think you need that in a in a.
• 3:29:58
  So it's up to that. Something needs to look not
• 3:30:02
  perfect. Oh yeah, I genuinely think you
• 3:30:05
  do. Why?
• 3:30:05
  Is it Star Wars or something like that?
• 3:30:07
  You know, like sometimes you just need that reality bump
• 3:30:11
  then. You know.
• 3:30:12
  Yeah, but it needs to be better. Than Underworld.
• 3:30:14
  Oh yeah, not so bad. That's that's four episodes of
• 3:30:18
  reality You need to be. There's got to be something that
• 3:30:20
  reminds. You like no matter how good it
• 3:30:22
  is, isn't it? Genesis has got the.
• 3:30:24
  Clam, yeah. Andrasani has got that stupid
• 3:30:28
  dinosaur in here. Had the sewer full of clams,
• 3:30:30
  that would have been. Cool giant clams.
• 3:30:35
  See you soon. It's astonishing the.
• 3:30:37
  Things that you come out with, isn't it?
• 3:30:40
  Well, look, gentlemen, that just leads.
• 3:30:41
  Me to say thank you very much for spending the last four
• 3:30:44
  hours. To talk about talents of Wing
• 3:30:45
  Chiang. Whereabouts.
• 3:30:48
  OK, you and I, Mark are going to be talking doing a re release of
• 3:30:52
  the Android invasion next. Luke, what are we doing next?
• 3:30:57
  Let's do something don't like what?
• 3:31:01
  Such as Pyramids of Mars. No.
• 3:31:05
  No, I don't even not that bad. No, no, I don't.
• 3:31:08
  I don't. Really like this?
• 3:31:10
  Dislike that? Maybe.
• 3:31:17
  What capalities haven't been done?
• 3:31:19
  Oh, lows, you could basically choose any Oh we'll, we'll think
• 3:31:25
  we'll we'll definitely come back with.
• 3:31:27
  Something how about just bore people by it's?
• 3:31:30
  Sitting here. Well, they just had six episodes
• 3:31:32
  of you here, so they're. Probably out there full of you
• 3:31:35
  by now. And I'm joking.
• 3:31:36
  I'm joking. I'm joking, Joe.
• 3:31:40
  You're not wrong. Well, actually what one of my.
• 3:31:43
  Favorite recording experiences was our Rings of Accent I've.
• 3:31:47
  Just had so. Much fun with that, it's mad
• 3:31:49
  that. We're.
• 3:31:50
  Almost coming up to a. Year since the Drunken Lover
• 3:31:53
  Monsters recording and I feel like.
• 3:31:56
  The drunken version should be released.
• 3:32:00
  What can I do? This is so.
• 3:32:03
  Amazing. The funniest thing about that is
• 3:32:06
  you go. Back to the party.
• 3:32:07
  Saying I killed it? Oh, absolutely.
• 3:32:09
  Amazing, isn't it? I know I really did.
• 3:32:13
  Oh. Guys, thank you very much.
• 3:32:15
  It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much.
• 3:32:17
  Yeah, it's been. Brilliant.