Latest / Half the Picture / #41 - ADAM CARTER REHMEIER

Transcript

#41 - ADAM CARTER REHMEIER · Half the Picture

• 0:00
  Weirdly enough, I think I've seen Caligula like 18 times in the theatre and I've seen Boogie Nights maybe like 16 times in the theatre. So, you know. Caligula 18 times. Well, I'm impressed. Well, the 90s were kind of wild. Yeah, that movie was floating around at the midnight stuff in Chicago where I went to school. So we would go see it all the time. Really trash. We'd go see Caligula at the midnight. Music
• 0:33
  Hello Adam, welcome to Half a Picture. How are you doing today? Good brother, how about yourself?
• 0:37
  I'm doing very well, thank you. As we were saying before we started rolling, it's a real pleasure to have you on because I'm a fan of yours, I'm a fan of your films. Dinner in America is a cracking piece of work and I've written you've got a new movie coming out tomorrow, I believe, Carolina Caroline or Carolina... Wait, hold on. Carolina Caroline. Wait, what is it? What's the name of this movie? What are we doing here? Carolina Caroline. Yeah, which I've seen as well and I really enjoyed it. So no, it's a real pleasure to have you on the pod.
• 1:06
  Thank you. I'm glad to be here. No worries. So as I say, the movie's opening in the States tomorrow. How does it feel for the film to finally be about on the eve of its release, finally becoming out?
• 1:16
  Well, I mean, that's the thing. You want people to see the movie. You do all this and all the hard work, all the pain of making the movie because it's a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to do it. And then you get into post-production and it's a whole other animal. And you spend even more time toiling over everything. And at the end of the day, you just want an audience to sit there in the dark and watch your movie for an hour and 45 minutes.
• 1:44
  And are you excited? Are you intrigued by what people might think of it? Yeah, I think that, yeah, I am. You know, I think it's a new shade for me. They're going to see some, you know, a new side, a new shade. And that was kind of, I think, you know, part of the fun of this is because it was a script that didn't originate from me. Up until this point, I've written every, you know, all of my own screenplays and everything. So this is the first time I've
• 2:14
  Yeah, I was hoping to dive into that a bit because as you say, your last two movies, Snack Shack and Dinner in America, were sort of very personal projects, projects you've written yourself, semi-autobiographical in the case of Snack Shack. And this, as you say, this was one of your first times working with another writer's words. I mean, what was that like? I mean, I guess going from sort of such personal projects, working with someone else's words.
• 2:37
  You know, and I have other projects, too, that that are sort of swirling around that, you know, like I think I think the main thing to know is you're always trying to push, you know, six, seven, eight, nine things at the same time to see which one's going to be the one that goes. And this script came to me through Tim and Trevor White at Star Thrower.
• 2:58
  They brought me the script, and I read it, and I just really connected with the characters, primarily in the first act of Tom Dean's script. I was like, wow, I like this, and it reminds me, the first act reminded me of films from the 70s. And I thought...
• 3:19
  Although Oliver in Tom's original script, he was described kind of as a Kennedy. He wore a fancy suit. He wore a Rolex. He drove a Mercedes. And through the dialogue that I heard on the page, primarily there's a scene where they're swimming together at night.
• 3:40
  I was like, man, this movie, what it really wants to do is it wants to be kind of a 70s movie with like a hot guy, a hot girl, a gun, and a muscle car. And so Tom and I started to redesign everything around that kind of concept. And, you know...
• 3:57
  kind of make it a throwback to things of the 70s, like Badlands or, you know, obviously there's the Bonnie and Clyde element to it, but, you know, films that are like Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry, Thunderbolt and Lightfoot, the Great Texas Dynamite Chase, these are all like other sort of films that I was like, well, it could have shades of these things in it as well. And we reshaped everything to accommodate that. And, you know, I thought...
• 4:27
  Also, too, bank robbing. We need to set this, like... Tom's original script was set in 1993, but I had just shot Snack Shack, and, you know, it's hard to get period cars that, you know, I mean, when you're doing all of this on a budget, you know, it's hard to get period cars and find everything. So...
• 4:47
  I thought, well, wouldn't it, you know, maybe we should nick it a little bit closer to the turn of this new century here. And so we kind of made, and I also thought, bank robbing has gotten exponentially harder since, you know, 9-11. So let's make this a pre-9-11 kind of bank robbing movie set in the very early aughts. So it feels sort of like...
• 5:12
  a retro throwback for people that were, you know, maybe kids in, you know, 2001, 2002. The same way that we sort of, there was a nostalgic feel when, you know, you're an 80s or 90s baby growing up watching films in the late 60s and 70s, you know. So it's like got that kind of 20, 25-year throwback feel to it.
• 5:38
  but behaves like we think of a 70s road movie behaving um with an early arts backdrop and your two stars are samara weaving in carl galner who you worked with of course before on dinner in america and i guess and can you tell me anything about those characters and i guess what the movie puts them through and and the kind of and the sense a sense of the movie with those characters
• 5:58
  Yeah, I think that, you know, this movie on the page is such a two-hander, and it's going to live and die by the chemistry of its two leads. And also in the redesign, which went kind of from a crime thriller movie to what I wanted to do more of a romantic, you know, lovers on the run movie.
• 6:23
  Everything's hinging on that chemistry. And together, Samara and Kyle have it in spades. They're just electric together. And Samara had seen Dinner in America with her sister a few years ago in Sydney and was like, who is this guy? I want to work with him.
• 6:45
  Kyle, like me, was a fan of Samara, and he really wanted to work with Samara. So there was this sort of, you know, alignment, if you will. Everybody wanted to work with each other on this, and that made it really exciting. Because I had worked with Kyle, and I trust him with my life. He's just the...
• 7:05
  amazing actor. He's so committed in the, in a chameleon and hadn't worked with Samara, but I knew her work ethic was very strong. Um, you know, I had seen her in ready or not. And I just, I, I loved her in that film and yeah, it was, uh, getting, getting them together. And, you know, this was a very, this is a movie that was, you know, 25 days shoot. So it was like super down and dirty. We had like not a lot of time to,
• 7:32
  to think on it so it was it was casting the right people um getting them together and and then you know just going for it and watching the movie back they do seem to be like absolutely with the program and absolutely as you say the movie like this lives a little dies on the chemistry of a couple like that and they really do have it in spades i mean what would they like to work with then as a director and you know i guess as a couple screen couple
• 7:57
  An absolute dream. They're both so professional. I only really ask two things of actors usually is, you know, know your lines inside and out and come ready to play. And that's what Samara and Kyle bring to the table. They've done their homework. They're very professional. And, you know, they give you little gifts because we're able to do, you know, if someone's, let's just say someone's not prepared, you're going to have...
• 8:25
  you're going to struggle to get just what the baseline you're going for is never any extra or any play, you know, with it. They're the kind of actors that, you know, they're going to, they're going to do, you're going to get your baseline, you're going to get that out of the way and then take, you know, take two or three or four, they're going to be little surprises and little gifts in those takes that you can, um,
• 8:48
  you know, choose to like sort of fine tune and ride the performances. So, and they're going to try things and they're going to experiment. And, you know, that's what, you know, when you come prepared, that's what, what you get out of it on the other end, you get, you know, sort of, I don't know, the experiments and stuff that, that, that make often make the production that much better.
• 9:11
  And what kind of little gifts and nuggets would they be giving you on those days when you're shooting some of those scenes? What kind of things do you remember they would give you and surprise you with? Well, just like there's just nuance to the performances, you know, like if they choose to deliver a line differently or maybe they drop a line or like, you know, it's you're sitting in the edit bay, you know, for months. Like, you know, all of this is shot very concentrated. So you don't have you don't have.
• 9:39
  you can pick your hot take or whatever that you think that you're going to like, you know, script supervisors there with you and maybe your marking takes. But when, you know, when you have months and months to analyze something, that's when, because, you know, it's like a blur when you're doing it on the day. But when you have time to sort of,
• 10:00
  you know, analyze it, you're like, oh, wow, she's really modulating. Like, oh, wow, like, look at this gift. So it really comes down to, like, microscopic nuances a lot of times, an eyebrow that goes up or this or that. Like, you know, it's hard for me to, like, pinpoint, but a lot of times it's, like, in the minutiae, and that's really exciting when you get into editorial because, you know, those kinds of, like,
• 10:28
  an eyebrow raise and then the cut happens right on that you know versus like a take where there's no eyebrow raise and you still make the cut um there's a fluidity to all of this that you're looking for um kind of like uh
• 10:44
  badminton or volleyball you know you want you want the cuts to be smooth and it's going back and forth or tennis or something you know like they want to volley back and forth in a certain way so that's always exciting and a lot of it's you know a lot of it is very like nuancy and and you know hard to describe but that's what happens in in those like the variations on those takes you know
• 11:08
  Because I know you're a director who is very much a presence, I mean most directors are, but like a presence in the editing room. Like I know Dinner in America, you cut yourself. So editing is clearly something that is a fascinating part of the process. So when it gets into the editing room and it comes to finding that minutiae, is that something that you really, that you put time and effort into? Like finding those little minutiae?
• 11:30
  Everything. It's everything. It's everything. It's the whole film. It's the whole film that the audience sees. You know, there's there's the you know, I'll quote some Truffaut here, but there's the Brisson or Truffaut. Somebody there's the film that you shoot. There's a film that you write, the film that you shoot in the film that you edit. And they're all different movies, you know, and they really are. You know, you give up.
• 11:53
  You give up everything when you cast a movie, you know, because whatever's in your head, unless you're writing specifically for an actor, you know, you give away what that vision was in your mind when you were on the page, you know, because...
• 12:10
  And now this actor is going to embody this role and they're going to bring their own ideas and things to the table. And it's going to change. It's going to be different than what you initially thought. And I think the best thing really for you to do is to cast correctly and to trust the actors and to trust what they're going to bring to the table. You know, if they're confused in some way, then...
• 12:37
  you're a parachute for them. But if not, you know, get out of the way and let them bring what they're going to bring to the table. But then then really, you know, there's the part where you're you're building out the movie after you've shot everything. And that can be, you know, music and sound design and all of these other elements can, you know, alter and enhance the performances in so many different ways. So, you know, it really
• 13:03
  It's a whole other thing when you get to post and you build the movie out and then it becomes a brand new design. So I'm excited by that. And, you know, when I sit in the edit bay with my editor, Justin, he's fantastic and he brings so much to the table. You know, after Snack Shack, I think I had maybe a tighter grip.
• 13:28
  on Snack Shack because it was just so personal to me. Um, and I, it was very specific about that, but I was looser on Carolina and, you know, I think that like pulling back a little bit, I think that Justin's, his work is just tremendous and, uh, we, we really get along in the day and it, it, uh, it's just a, it's just a really good working relationship.
• 13:53
  And you can feel that in the film, like I say, the observations of those details that you talk about. And comparing – and looking at your body of work in relation to Carolina, Caroline, it's interesting to me because when looking back at something like Dinner in America, of course –
• 14:08
  that film has a real sort of punk edge, a very DIY feel as well, but a very sort of tactile energy to it, which is great and really comes off the screen when you watch it. And then comparing that to Carolina Caroline, it's much more lyrical, I found, much more lyrical, much more classical, subtle, you could say. Yeah, I do. More kind of use of cross-dissolves. The language that you use is much more classical and lyrical. I mean, was that a conscious thing on your part?
• 14:37
  I think Justin brought a lot of that too, like especially to those montages where there's a lot of those cross dissolves and things like that. I mean, there were times where I didn't know what he would like. Sometimes he'll be like, you know, give me give me give me a day. Give me a day to like fuck around with this and see what's going to happen here. And.
• 14:58
  he's digging and digging and digging for the right song. Like the, the Emmylou Harris, like cover of, of the, the Bruce Springsteen song from Nebraska, like, like something like that. Like he'll just show it to me. And it's really pretty close to what you see in the movie. And,
• 15:17
  it's just fantastic. And I think that that, you know, sometimes giving, um, an editor that space, you know, uh, not, not to be suffocating, you know, cause, uh, there's only, there's, there's, uh, it's just like the same type of freedom you would give an actor or you give, you know, um, any, any, any crew member, uh, to do, to do their work and to show you, um,
• 15:40
  I like that there's in those montages, you know, that's like Justin probably working late at night, like trying to figure in problem solve out because, you know, a lot of the footage for that, which was like all of the footage and all of the montages was shot in one and a half days, if you can believe that. Wow.
• 16:00
  by Richie Trimble, um, and this, this, uh, guy, Josh Keros, who was our gimbal operator. Richie was the drone operator and, um, Josh was the, the gimbal operator, but they sort of tag team that over the course of a day and a half. And luckily they had...
• 16:17
  They had bright, sunny day. They had rain. They had night stuff. I mean, they really were able to stretch it and make it look like, you know, a dozen different locations, which was crazy. And I just, you know, yeah, that was...
• 16:36
  I just think that they bring a lot to the table. Justin brings a lot to the table with it. And yeah, like letting Justin rip on something like that, where you possibly haven't... We haven't really gone through all of the footage in that because those were...
• 16:54
  That was all stuff that was shot outside of, you know, first unit that I was doing. Those were things that Josh and Richie had to go out and get while we were doing the, you know, the other, the other parts of the movie. So I hadn't reviewed, I'd seen a few stuff on the camera truck. I'd sat back, they'd showed me a few things that they really liked. And I was like, oh, wow, that's really gorgeous. But I hadn't seen the totality of what they had shot. And so I,
• 17:21
  Justin really realized what all of that was in there. Yeah. And as you say, like, so that was the approach you were doing, you guys were doing in the post-production, but also, I guess, on set. Because as I say, like, you know, some of your audio work has a bit more of that sort of punk, sort of almost kind of scrappy edge, whilst also being very sort of slick. And with this, I really felt like you were kind of moving into more, as I say, sort of classical areas, more kind of lyrical areas. So that was in the edit. But was that also on set as well? And then the prep? Yeah.
• 17:51
  The sound work? On set and in the prep as well, like the other areas of making the film. Yeah, I mean, well, you know, working with Danny McCoy, my sound mixer, I mean, he's just the best. You know, Danny is the kind of guy that's always...
• 18:08
  you know, he's got mics on the actors, but he's also planting stuff in the trees to get birds and other things. So he brings a lot to the table too, like when we're actually recording stuff and getting a lot of organic sound that Justin's able to use later. Or Ugo Duran, who did the, our sound designer, is able to pull like the rumble of the car, you know, and things like that. You know, there's a lot of organic stuff that's still used in there. I think my favorite of everything that,
• 18:36
  There was a little bit of fighting, but after sort of there's a very intense moment. I can tell you, like, I don't know if there's spoilers or anything, but there's a very intense moment. Something sort of tragic happens in the movie.
• 18:54
  And, you know, as Caroline and Oliver are driving away, Kyle starts pounding the steering wheel and the steering column in the car. And, like, that's the actual sound. Like, my sound designer was like...
• 19:10
  it's over modulated like we should we should abandon this and like you know try something else but it just sounded so good to me I really wanted to have that actual authentic sound I didn't care if it was slightly over modulated when he was when he was banging on it it just it felt so real it felt so correct I I can't imagine not having that in there
• 19:33
  Yeah, that is a terrific scene, the one that you just mentioned. I mean, let's say like no spoilers for anyone who hasn't seen the film yet, but it's a terrific scene and there are loads of terrific sequences throughout the film. And actually, I did want to ask about that because you mentioned some of the montages earlier, you know, because it's about these two, obviously these two bank robbers and, you know, and Conais. And there's a real sense of that slickness in those sequences. And as I was watching back the film, I did think like the sense I got was this was this seems to me to be made by someone who's really enjoying themselves.
• 20:02
  Like playing all these genre elements and in these sequences, like was it a film? Did you enjoy yourself making this film?
• 20:08
  Yes, I did, very much so. You know, like not having penned the script, the original draft of it, it was very liberating to go in. Because when I write something, I'm very, very married to it. If I wrote it, that means that I probably spent a year all in from like writing the first draft and then a second draft and then tinkering with things. Yeah.
• 20:34
  And I'll call whatever, you know, if someone's optioned it and we're going to shoot it, it becomes a shooting draft. It's the gospel. That's what we're shooting. I don't even think about it again. We just, we break it down and we do our days and that's it. With this script, you know, there was obvious changes that I wanted to make up front with Tom. So Tom and I did
• 20:59
  I did notes and Tom did a pass on the notes and then Tom and I collabed with it together for a little bit. And then Tom went and directed a movie called Charlie Harper. And while he was off doing Charlie Harper, he gave me, you know, his blessing to do whatever. There were further tweaks for Samara and Kyle specifically, which I did. But...
• 21:20
  all of that was super liberating to not be married to, you know, something that you had in your head for, and I hadn't had this movie in my head. Like most of my films, there's, there's a, you know, I don't know, four or five years of development in front of that. So you're thinking about everything. You're thinking about sequences and shots and it's all, you know, it's, it's all in your head. With this, it was like,
• 21:47
  I felt like an active person, just like my DP and production designer and my costumers coming in. And I was playing my role and bringing, you know, my thing to the table with it. But Jean-Philippe Bernier, my DP and I, we were sitting in designing this thing shot for shot. And on other films like Snack Shack or Dinner in America, I had very specific, like, sequences and shots that were already kind of built out in my mind. Yeah.
• 22:16
  For this, it felt very fresh to design it with them because I just had less time of thinking about this movie in general. So all of this is to say it was super liberating and to not be precious with moments and beats and things. And to collaborate in a different way than I'm used to. And that felt really, really good.
• 22:45
  And how do you think you were able to flex your muscles as a director, having had that sort of being freed up by the fact that it wasn't your script? How do you think you were able to flex your muscles?
• 22:54
  Well, I liked it because, you know, this script was a little bit outside of my wheelhouse of something that I would think of. And so it opened me up to the idea, you know, of a lot more things that I didn't necessarily come up with that I would be attracted to. And, you know, those projects have come in and there's obviously there's ones that I gravitate towards. And, you know, I have...
• 23:18
  I don't know. I've attached to five or six things at least that maybe even a few more that I didn't right now. So it's opened me up to that idea. And, you know, seeing how beautiful this one turned out, I'm not afraid of it in any way, shape or form.
• 23:36
  and that's you mentioned something there where because as you say this is a new this is a new project for you and it's uh you know i guess you'd say it's your first road movie which is obviously such an iconic american genre i mean we don't really have road movies over here in the uk it's not you know the fact that you can drive from one end of the country to the other in less than a day it really there's no such thing as road movies and like there is over there where you know in the in america so of course it's
• 23:59
  It's true. It's true. No, it's true. I mean, isn't there a circle road movie or something like that where they're just lost, you know? Well, yeah, I mean, any road movie in the UK, I mean, there's actually technically only one. There's a movie called Radio One, which is a really interesting sort of 70s film. But other than that, it's a very small genre in the UK. But in America, it's huge, of course. And with that, did you find yourself sort of
• 24:23
  Because you mentioned some of the influences on the film earlier, like Thunderbolt and Lightfoot, of course, and The Getaway and things like that. But with this, was that part of the excitement, but also part of maybe any fear or nervousness you had? Like you were outside of your comfort zone at all with this genre? It was new ground?
• 24:41
  No, I like all sorts of movies. That's the thing. Hollywood loves to pigeonhole you as a director. Like, oh, Adam did Dinner in America. It's funny. He likes comedy. It just so happens that my follow-up movie was Snack Shack. Well, it was easy for me to sort of springboard...
• 25:01
  Snack Shack off of Dinner in America because it was also very funny and it was, you know, kind of a coming, you know, heartfelt coming of age movie. So it was easy. But yeah, I mean, like, like genre wise, I love all genres and I kind of look at it like I'd like to have a career.
• 25:18
  You know, like I look at directors of the 70s and 80s, and I look at the wide range of, you know, films that they were outputting and different tones and different shades. And here's a quiet one. Here's a loud one. I mean, that's really the career that I want to have is doing music.
• 25:36
  you know, many shades and because I like, I like all types of, uh, films and, uh, I don't want to stick in a particular genre. Um, I, I, yeah, I want to, I want to mess around. I want to do true crime and I want to do bios and, you know, like, uh, when I do grindhouse movies. So yeah.
• 25:54
  Yeah. Well, I did want to ask about that, like whether there are any genres, because from your last three films, I mean, I guess you could say they all share a certain sort of sense of humor, a certain exuberance, but also they are so different tonally. I mean, are there any, so to me, it feels like you have sort of proven that sort of track record already of sort of tonality shifts and being dexterous of that. I mean, are there any genres and tones that you'd love to explore next? I mean, you mentioned a few there, but like any others that you'd like to explore?
• 26:19
  I like that you said dextrous because that's exactly what I'm interested in. You know, I'm interested in having that sort of agility to do other genres and stuff. But the question being, what do I want to explore genre-wise?
• 26:34
  You mentioned some there, but are there any other particular genres or tones that you'd love to? Yeah, I have a very sprawling, very, very sprawling true crime ensemble thing that I've written that's more of a miniseries or TV-based. And also...
• 26:53
  I have a couple of bios that are fantastic and the types of ins that have never been done before. I have stuff in the horror space that I want to tackle and stuff in sort of the more grindhouse space that I want to shoot. So, yeah, I'd be open. I'd be open to I'm open to all genres, really, truly, as long as it the thing for me, it's like.
• 27:23
  I'd be open to a children's movie if it was the right one. You know what I mean? Because I like a concept that's like you can see it and understand it, and then it becomes about execution. And that's the exciting part, I think, of the filmmaker, is that execution of it, you know, to make it great.
• 27:41
  you're already making me excited hearing about some of these sort of various projects you've you know you've kind of you've got in development i mean is there anything you can tell us about some of them like or are they very much under wraps kind of like well i can tell you i can tell you i've already shot my next film and i'm close to finishing it up so i can tell you that but i can't tell you anything else about it but i will say uh it's very spiky and very exciting
• 28:05
  yeah okay it's not language it's not the language movie it's the really punchy you know bonkers one so nice yeah nice oh wait i'm already excited for it like i say because you know just going off of the freedoms you made already i mean i'm really curious to see where you go next so i mean that's really it's a wild place yeah it's a wild place where i go next so yeah i'm excited about that especially it's like it and it couldn't be a more perfect like
• 28:31
  you know, like opposite of, of, of the current film. So that's exciting to me. And then, you know, the next thing up, I want it to be the opposite of that film. So, you know, just to keep the complete, you know, just, uh, I don't know. Um,
• 28:48
  subordinate expectations that type of thing like oh god what's this you know so for sure i mean this one obviously you know it's on the road on wheels i mean is the next well if it's the opposite is it like in one room or something is it locked down is like no movement at all no no no no roads no roads there are roads there are roads but i can't i can't i can't it's it's uh i will say instead of instead of a two-hander it's uh it's more of an eight-hander you know at some point so it's uh
• 29:17
  It's definitely a different, it's a radically different type of movie. Yeah. Nice. Well, hey, I already can't wait. And linking then this movie, go back to Carolina Caroline, and linking that, I guess, to Dinner in America,
• 29:32
  because as I was watching back Carolina Carolina, I was reminded of the, well, the love story in it between these two kind of slightly misfit sort of outsider characters that, you know, Bond had become so close. It did, for me, have echoes of the romance as well in Dinner in America between the sort of two young misfit punk characters and how there's something about these outsider characters in your films, which you clearly, to me, seems to have so much affection for. And I did want to ask, like, what is the source of your sort of interest with these characters and these people?
• 30:01
  Yeah, I think that I'm, you know, that's, I feel like my allegiances are with the misfits and the outcasts and the underdogs of the world. I gravitate to those types of stories. You know, I think a top five movie for me all time is Rocky. You know, I love it.
• 30:18
  That's like the ultimate underdog story. You know, I think, you know, a fighter past his prime that's told there's no way in hell you're going to win this fight, you know, and he goes the distance, you know, I mean, I, to me, that's the one of the ultimates. I love that movie.
• 30:36
  Yeah, I just, I identify with those characters, the misfits, you know, the forgotten. And I just like, you know, any type of underrepresentation, I like to champion and see. And so I don't know. I think I'm always going to gravitate towards characters like that and build them into my projects. It just feels like that's what I'm going to do.
• 31:04
  I mean, now you've said like one of your favorite films is Rocky. I just I'm kind of curious to ask like in your that's it was you said that's in your top five. I think so. Yeah. Great. I mean, what other movies would you say just out of interest? Would you say would be aliens probably my favorite film of all time? Alien one alien. Yeah. Yes. Nice. I don't know if you said aliens or alien.
• 31:22
  No, Alien one, Sigourney. I love the whole Harry Dean Stanton, Yafet Kodo kind of relationship in there. I love Tom Skerritt as Dallas. That movie is like, I don't know, as far as anything in the sci-fi space, nothing has surpassed that film since it's come out. It's really amazing. And I think John Carpenter's The Thing is probably my number two.
• 31:52
  seems like a lot of sci-fi going on and then we're getting to like rocky territory yeah i love uh i love saturday night fever a lot like that movie is is like just really amazing and um i another one um up there i love unforgiven it's my favorite western i think that the caliber of acting in that in that film is the the the best acting in any western of all time
• 32:17
  I mean, those are five absolute crackers, if I may say. Absolute crackers. I mean, you mentioned, because obviously you said earlier that you always have an interest in sort of horror and the horror genre. I mean, like, you know, The Thing and Alien, I mean, hey, that's too classic. I mean, is that a sort of influence there, would you say, in terms of looking at horror?
• 32:34
  And there's other horror, too, that, like, kind of nontraditional. But, I mean, I even put something like Zodiac, you know, the way that Fincher handles that film. To me, I was a kid. I was obsessed with true crime. And that Robert Graysmith book, I probably read it three or four times as a kid. And I think that that's the best adaptation I've ever seen of, like, you know, a true crime book movie.
• 32:59
  realized as a film, I think Zodiac is at the absolute top of that. And I love how the film is handled. I love the tone and how you feel when you watch it. I've probably seen it in the theater three or four times. And yeah, I just...
• 33:16
  That's another one I've loved. The movies I've seen the most in the theater, weirdly enough, I think I've seen Caligula like 18 times in the theater. And I've seen Boogie Nights maybe like 16 times in the theater. So, you know.
• 33:31
  yeah caligula 18 times well i'm impressed i'm impressed well the 90s were kind of wild yeah that movie was floating around at the midnight stuff in chicago where i went to school so we we would go see it all the time uh really trash would go see caligula midnight wow i mean um have you ever seen caligula with the malcolm mcdow commentary on the dvd
• 33:54
  no no just just whatever was floating in the 90s you know i haven't seen it since mate i mean if you ever go back if you ever attempt to go back and watch i mean obviously it's a whole experience that film but if you ever go back i want to go back and watch it you must watch it with the malcolm down commentary it's the only way to watch caligula it's so fun yeah you just have it's it's two and a half hours of malcolm down just watching and reacting like he's almost like he's seeing the film for the first time it's like oh
• 34:19
  Yeah, it's fantastic. Oh, shit. Highly recommended. That's to anyone else listening as well. Check out Caligula and Malcolm McDowell commentary. But I think they actually brought out a new cut of Caligula quite recently. Yeah, Justin was talking about that. I just don't really have a desire to revisit it. You know, it was just something that we were doing at the time. But, you know, it was a lot of fun.
• 34:44
  hmm well boogie nights hey i mean i've seen boogie nights on uh 35 and actually zodiac as well i mean seeing those films on a big screen is just like i remember seeing zodiac on quite a sort of scrappy 35 millimeter print which probably was finch's worst nightmare you know because yeah obviously loves yeah loves loves digital and loves you know you know all that but like you know it was still it was you know such an incredible film that's one of my favorites as well i love boogie night tonight and i love punch drunk love i think those are my two favorite paul promise anderson movies for sure
• 35:12
  Punch and Love and Phantom Fred are mine big too One battle I really loved this last year that was my favourite movie of last year I love that film as well I'm still amazed Really really amazing
• 35:25
  Yeah, we've been talking about it on the pod lately a bit, but I'm still amazed that the best picture Oscar went to essentially a Thomas Pynchon movie. That's insane to me. It's great in the best way. You know what I mean? I mean, it's funny because with Dinner in America, which when I was watching it back, I felt, I don't know if this is like, whether this was an influence on the film, but I felt a certain sort of Alex Cox energy, like Repo Man, kind of that punk energy. And One Battle After Another for me has so much like Walker in it, so much Alex Cox.
• 35:53
  Like, it's kind of unreal. So I don't know if Alex Cox was an influence on you, but, like, I think it is on PTA. I definitely like Repo Man. Yeah, 100%. But I don't know. I think at the time when I was designing Dinner in America, I was more sort of focused on patty and, like, that whole aspect of it. Like...
• 36:17
  Like, Simon came out of another project called Kicks, and that was maybe even more kind of a, even more punk rock kind of movie. It was about the punk rock kid selling his body to science to pay for his, you know, his recordings. Yeah.
• 36:36
  I merged that character into another script idea I had called Dinner in America. And so basically I was like, I had basically had two starts of, you know, two first acts, if you will, that didn't work on their own. So I merged a character in, I said, what if you bring Simon from Kix into Dinner in America with Patty and see what happens if we merge these two together?
• 37:06
  And I instantly loved it. And I was like, oh my God, these two belong in their own thing together. So I just merged them together and then kept writing it. And I was like, I could have this character come in, hijack this other movie that's already going in this one space.
• 37:23
  And we do kind of like a 72 hour in the life of, and he sort of, he changes the family and changes the dynamic forever and leaves, you know? And that became sort of the concept of that because they were two standalone things that weren't, they were just sitting in a folder, one called Kix and one called...
• 37:43
  in America doing nothing, nothing to help, you know, but merging them together, it was like, oh shit, this could be like a lot of fun. And it was that out of all of my rights, like that was the most organic thing.
• 37:58
  I was happy when I was writing things. You know what I mean? Like sometimes things are just straight pain. It's just fucking nails on a chalkboard, you know, to get things out or frustration or procrastination or, you know. But but like there was a joy.
• 38:16
  in writing Simon and Patty that I don't know. I don't think I've experienced it since then. I don't think I'd experienced it before then. It's a very, very special. Snack Shack was hard for me. Snack Shack was really hard to take
• 38:34
  the summer of, I basically took the summer of 91, 92, and 93. I took the best of the best things of those three summers and mashed them all together into one summer. So...
• 38:49
  It was like a lot of attrition. I remember I was doing the little writer's trick where you, you know, fuck with the margins and, you know, to cram more in. And the studio kind of called me out on it. And they were like, yeah, this is a loaded fucking potato here. You know, we're not going to green light this movie unless you cut...
• 39:13
  you know, X, Y, Z pages out of it. And, but if you cut, if you cut, you know, 15 pages out of this movie, we'll, we'll green light it and we will leave you alone and let you make the movie that you want to make. So it was like, it was like, oh, okay, well I made the cuts and, um, and, and there we go.
• 39:31
  There we go. Yeah. Well, that exuberance you really feel in your films, like the exuberance of the writing, exuberance of the filmmaking, like watching Dinner in America the first time, it's like you watch it and like, and I mean this in the best possible way. Like I watch it, like I have no idea where this is going. Like to start off with, it's like- I didn't either. Yeah.
• 39:50
  I just told you my secret. I didn't know. I merged two things together, then organically was like, oh, this is a guy from this screenplay, and this is a gal from this screenplay. I'm having them come into Dinner in America, and we are just going to see what happens. I did not know. And that was the beauty of that, I think, for the audience, too. You don't really know. I didn't fucking know. Nobody fucking knew. I was just making it up as I went along.
• 40:20
  Totally. And you can really feel that in the best way because you're watching it. It's only until I got about halfway through the film, you're like, oh, so he's John Keebub and it all comes together. Whereas before that, it keeps you on your toes so much. But like I say, in the best way, because it's rare that you get a film that really sort of cattle prods you into getting on your toes. Like, right, okay, pay attention because we're not going to stop. And I love that. I love that about the film.
• 40:44
  And I think what makes it special is Jean-Philippe Bernier, there was a shot right in there. When Simon realizes that it's Patty, we did the sort of like the push in but dolly backwards thing. So it's like this weird thing on him and then a weird thing on her, the reverse of it.
• 41:02
  And I think that that was like... And he looks and he sees her Polaroid. He sees her panties. He sees the bedspread. He realizes, holy fucking shit, this is the girl that sends me this stuff. And now we're like, all the clues are there. We've seen Simon...
• 41:21
  received the letters before we've seen pat patty dancing and taking polaroids of herself to send we don't know what she's doing i do love how that all connects together like that was that was i think for me like you know uh i think as the the writer you're like holy shit this is a really cool way to like tie it all together you know
• 41:44
  Absolutely. And it's so sweet as well. I think the thing that really most surprised me about it, because the film is so many different things. It's so many different tones, as are, you know, your films brought by and large, not just that film, but like, it's so many different tones and styles and flavours. But then underneath it all is such this real sense of sweetness, and sort of that you would not unorthodox that you wouldn't predict. I think that goes back to sort of like, you know, what you said about the affection you have for those characters and those people.
• 42:09
  Yeah, and, like, you know, making... Again, we're talking about underdogs and, you know, like that amount of heart. I mean, Rocky has so much heart in it, you know? Like, it's a... I get choked up even thinking about it. But, like, creating characters like that that are sincere but can also, like, that can be levels and layers to them, you know? They can be... They can have the full range of emotions in a movie, you know?
• 42:39
  sort of cookie cutter. I see a lot of shit that's just super cookie cutter and it doesn't have any depth or layers or any emotion to it. It comes down to casting. It comes down to a lot of those elements too. Emily Skaggs
• 42:57
  What she brings to the table with Patty is, you know, it's so beautiful. Her portrayal of Patty is second to none. And the depth that Kyle brings to Simon, you wouldn't think that this kid was capable of, you know, putting his guard down for a moment. And when he does, it's so beautiful to watch. Yeah.
• 43:19
  It really is. And it's two performances where you watch them and go, like, who the hell are these two? Because, like, they're incredible. Like, you know, how have I not seen these people? You know, why aren't I seeing more of them? Because they're just terrific. And, I mean, touching on, like, Emily's performance in the film, like, am I right in thinking that you guys wrote the... I mean, I have to touch on the Watermelon Song. Like, did you guys write that together then?
• 43:38
  We did. Yeah, we wrote it in maybe 15, 20 minutes. It was super spontaneous. Emily has a background in Broadway, but she'd never written a song before. She has a beautiful, beautiful voice. I have a background in...
• 43:59
  just cranking out lo-fi songs, just like watermelon. Like, like I spent all of my twenties and early through all of my teens, twenties and into the point that I'm like 32, 33, I started to hurt my ears. Um, like probably early tinnitus type of stuff from wearing cans for so many years. Um, but yeah,
• 44:24
  That's all I did. I wrote songs every day. And so, you know, the producers were nervous because that eighth of a page in the script is very specific. It's like she belts out this song. It's like savant shit. It means you got to have a really great song. It means that you've gone three quarters of this movie. And if that song isn't fantastic...
• 44:50
  it's, it's going to nuke the whole movie. It's also like when we get to the end of the movie and we see Simon perform, if his performance isn't electric and that fucking music's not authentic, you know, that punk stuff, you're dead in the water. Like you're absolutely like, like you went this whole time and this guy sucks. Like it has to be great. So, you know, there was no other option. And, and, and,
• 45:16
  I, you know, with, with Emily, I, I had, I had asked her to bring poet poems, like in the style that Patty would write to Simon. And she brought a whole big folder of stuff to Michigan where we shot the movie and where we, um,
• 45:33
  where we recorded the song. But yeah, the song was like a 15, 20-minute writing session between the two of us. We went through all of her poetry. I was playing an acoustic guitar, and we kind of found the chords and the phrasing for it. But she had everything in there. She had, I'm a watermelon, stand into your driveway, crack me open so I feel the air inside me. And then we kind of, she said, there was like an eardrum
• 46:01
  or like a tongue in your eardrum. Dumb-dumb, yes. I was like, let's double down on that and make it like a little more sing-song baby girl kind of thing and double those words. And so it became like a tongue-tongue in your eardrum. Dumb-dumb. Music boyfriend, I'm your yum-yum. You know, call me and I'll come. It was, it just like, it just happened so spontaneously and fast. It was 15 minutes.
• 46:28
  Then we laid it down. We did a little demo of it, laid it off, then recorded it on Pro Tools really quick. But her voice was kind of shot, and I didn't like how I was playing it all of a sudden. I said, let's just wait until the next day.
• 46:46
  and record it then. And so we came back into the studio, and that's when I laid down the drums and the guitar and did it for real. And we did, I think it was about 30 to 45 minutes all in, like, on it. And she did two takes of her vocals, and I believe you hear the second we used her second take. And then, like, almost a year later,
• 47:14
  And I went back to the last thing I did for the movie is I wanted to widen out the for the end credits. I wanted to widen out everything and put some other instrumentation like when the credits come up. And so I went back in and I put keyboards and some like crazy, you know, like.
• 47:33
  fast guitars and stuff that go, um, at the end. And that's when we, um, we used her first take in the choruses. We doubled it and sent it. We like, we, we doubled the, the, the vocals. And so in that, on the, uh, I guess the outro version of it, you can hear both of her takes at the same time.
• 47:53
  Wow. I mean, it's an incredible song. I mean, it just goes to show that you don't need to spend months crafting an absolute viral banger. I mean, like that song. No, minutes to do it, you know. Yeah. And then, of course, the shock, you know, years after, you know, like...
• 48:11
  We were shooting Carolina Caroline in Kentucky when Kyle held up his cell phone and he was like, what the fuck is this? What's going on? We were getting all these messages from some of the diehard DIA fans like, hey, your song is blowing up on TikTok.
• 48:28
  You know, it was it was a phenomenal, you know, thing to to to see. We didn't even have TikTok. So we had to like download TikTok first and then we watched it grow from, you know, a couple a couple of thousand impressions to like two billion impressions. So it was it was it was wild, man.
• 48:47
  Yeah, it's pretty staggering to me as well. And the fact that, as you say, just the sheer explosion of it. And the movie obviously got a huge upsurge in attention and got even a bit of a theatrical re-release. Did you see it in London then? Were you able to see it in the theatre? I wasn't able to see it in the theatre, sadly. I mean, I would love to see it with a crowd. It was like at the Prince Charles, is that what it's called there? Yeah, yeah. The Rep Theatre?
• 49:11
  The big one in Central London, yeah, yeah, yeah. They played there for like... To be honest, they were the first ones to play it. Kyle saw the opportunity and he was like... He started tweeting about it or whatever at that point. He was like, who wants to play this movie? And they were like the first ones. Them and the Frida Cinema in Orange County. And we did like...
• 49:38
  I think we did a week at each of those two theaters, like very close together. But then it opened up the opportunity even more. And suddenly we were traveling all over the place with like wildly sold out,
• 49:52
  shows and multiple shows back to back that were sold out i i remember we went to the music box theater in chicago and it was we sold out 1500 seats you know it was it was like a rock show it was rowdy and everyone was drunk and high and it was the best it was the absolute best
• 50:12
  I would love to see it in an environment like that. I mean, I guess that must feel so surreal for you as the director and the writer, because, as I say, in 2020 it came out and had a very sort of quiet start, but then it sort of exploded and built up. Yeah, I mean, that must have been so surreal to have it sort of given new life after it exploded. Right.
• 50:29
  You go from being really quiet to suddenly you have 600 to 700 DMs every day. So suddenly people... For me, what was so special about it is the amount of people that feel seen by the film. I could break down right now talking about that, but I'm not going to. But like...
• 50:54
  it that that part is very very touching to have people you know people that um feel seen for the first time but i i think that that's wonderful yeah i suppose that must be like it can't get much better than that i guess as a creator as an artist it's like your work is not only like getting seen but the right people the people who need to see it and who are being seen by it are seeing it
• 51:18
  That's all we were ever trying to do with the movie was to get it to those people. And every distributor told us that we would offend those people. And we were like, the audience is so much fucking smarter than you. Like, they know that we're not punching down. Like, and that was the hardest pill to swallow was...
• 51:38
  how wrong all of those distributors were that were telling us that, that like, this is offensive. You're going to offend this group of people and that group of, and then we're like, we knew, we knew that that wasn't true. And, uh, and so I guess the.
• 51:56
  You know, it might not be the best outcome happened, and the people that needed to see it, it's medicine for them. And it's the best feeling in the world to have that happen.
• 52:10
  That's wonderful. That's so wonderful to hear. And do you think when it comes to filmmaking, I guess more generally now, but do you think when it comes to filmmaking in Hollywood and getting a movie made, especially like an outsider art film, like something like Dino in America, do you think it's harder to get this film made now? Because then there's more suspicion of, oh, this film won't find an audience, or they don't want to, you know, like what you just said there about how, you know, it will insult the people it's for. Like, is it harder, therefore, to get a movie like that made in this day and age?
• 52:37
  There's just so much risk aversion to everything. Like, people need, like, it's like, oh, you know, this filmmaker, like, yeah, we like her script, but she hasn't proven anything. You know, I mean, it's just like, I don't know. Like, it just goes on and on. It's just risk aversion all the time.
• 52:59
  with things that, you know, people can feel in their bones is good, but they're afraid of it. You know, there's a, I like to call them the beige bandits, you know, they're just afraid of everything, uh, and they don't trust themselves. Um, but there's, there's great people in Hollywood too, that can push things through. You just, you know, you have to be persistent, um, and, and, and keep plugging away. Um, cause as many, um,
• 53:28
  As many bad, you know, people are risk averse people there are. There's people that want to champion things. And, you know, so you just have to you have to just be persistent and not give up and find the people that will help with the with the with those things. Yeah.
• 53:45
  We had an actor on the pod recently called Robert Sheehan, who's an Irish actor. He's a great actor. And he said something. What you said there about the beige bandits reminded me a little of something he said. He was talking about if writing becomes a little bit too much aware of its audience, it can be in danger of becoming a bit beige and not have any teeth to it, you could say. I'm paraphrasing, but do you think there's something in there? Is that what you mean by beige?
• 54:11
  I think we're saying the same thing. I think we're saying the exact same thing. And it's like, yeah, I don't want to dull things down. I don't want to dull things down. I mean, I think there's different... Something like Caroline is a different shade, and it's not as spiky as something like Snack Shack. I mean, people had massive problems with the fact that the kids were smoking and cursing in Snack Shack. And it's just like...
• 54:41
  No shit they are. Like, where the fuck did you grow up? Like, that's literally where I grew up and how kids were. That's me and my best friend, like, running around sneaking cigarettes and fucking, you know, cursing all the time. Like, I don't know what reality you're living in. So, yeah.
• 54:58
  Anyway, it's just like, and that was like, you know, like a hindrance, like to show kids smoking, you know, in a period in film where, you know, that's just how it was. It's not 2026. We were, the movie is 1991. It was playing as 1991. Yeah.
• 55:17
  Mm, for sure. I guess, like, this has been such a great chat, Adam. Thank you so much for coming on the pod. This has been such a blast. Yeah. I guess as a sort of wrap-up question, because we've had sort of a few directors on the podcast recently, and I've been asking them, like, what makes a good director? And I guess for you, what would you say, you know, after this, your third film, what would you say makes a good director? That's a great question. Yeah, I mean, and I...
• 55:46
  I think as a director, you need to have, you know, you have to have some, you know,
• 55:50
  basic intuition, you know, uh, uh, you know, you have to, you have to believe in yourself, believe in, uh, well, I mean, if we're, for me, it's, for me, a lot of it's like with the writer director part of it too, because that's a huge part of like, you know, putting your stamp on something is, is controlling those words. But, um, uh, I think with, with being a director, you need to,
• 56:16
  You need to realize that the job is delegation of duties. Down, you have to be really good at delegating to get that vision on the screen because the time is the enemy. You never have enough of it. You're always going to be behind the gun. And we did...
• 56:34
  Carolina in particular was the hardest movie I've made. Um, the movie that I made after Carolina, I had 41 days on it and the movie that, you know, the movie before it snack shack, I had 30 on Carolina. It was 25 day schedule with, um,
• 56:54
  almost 100 locations. So you do the math on that. It's like heart palpitation inducing, you know, to, to, to, I mean, it's the kind of movie where you wake up and you're, you're, you're at night, you know, in a panic about things. And, and so, you know, having, you know,
• 57:15
  people surrounding yourself with people that you love and are going to do a great, like finding your film family, building that out and being able to delegate those duties so you can optimize what you're putting on the screen.
• 57:30
  is so, so important. Like, you have to be, you know, like a good communicator that way to get that vision across. And you have to be good. You have to, you know, you don't have to...
• 57:46
  you know, be a costumer, you don't have to be a production designer, but it really helps to know all the aspects, ins and outs of everything, and to be able to just, you know, quickly delegate these things, because that's, you know, like I said, like...
• 58:01
  You don't get time. You never have enough time. Even when you have 41 days or you have 60 days, whatever it is, there's never enough time on any movie, I swear. It just runs out so fast. So, you know, communication skills and being able to delegate things.
• 58:19
  Being able to make decisions quickly, like knowing exactly what you want and to not be trying to find it on the day. That is like do not try to just show up and find it on the day. That is, you know.
• 58:35
  Have a plan, like be the plan, you know, and, you know, surround yourself with people that you love, then love to work with. So so you can achieve those things at the level that you want.
• 58:51
  Fantastic. Well, I think that's a lovely note to end on, Adam. I mean, as I say, you know, I really enjoyed the movie and it's been so much fun just chatting with you and shooting the shit a little bit about the film and about your work. And thanks so much for coming on Off the Picture. This really was such a blast. And I can't wait to see the movie, hopefully, when it opens here and I can see it on a big screen because I think I want to see this with a crowd. Oh, it's beautiful. I just saw it at the... We had an Academy screening here at Samuel Goldman. Holy shit, it looks so... It was all...
• 59:17
  calibrated and it looked amazing but um yeah let's let's talk after the next one i think you're gonna like that a lot yeah it's a day i'll hold you to that all right sounds good to me brill all right well thanks again so much adam take care mate
• 59:40
  Hey everyone, thanks so much for listening to my chat with Alan Carter-Raymeier. Remember to like and subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode, and stay tuned for more exciting interviews and guests coming soon on Half the Picture.