Latest / The Sean O'Connell Show / Ari Temkin on Camp Scalley and other fall camps around the Big 12

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Ari Temkin on Camp Scalley and other fall camps around the Big 12 · The Sean O'Connell Show

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Speaker 1: You're tuned to the Sean O'Connell Show from the Murdoch
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Speaker 2: talking a little big twelve football and there are very
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Speaker 2: few people on earth that are any better at it.
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Speaker 2: If any that's Ari Tempkin kind enough to join us
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Speaker 2: here on the Sean O'Connor Show. Ari, thanks for pushing
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Speaker 2: to today. I appreciate you. How are you?
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Speaker 3: I'm great?
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Speaker 4: O' see?
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Speaker 3: How are you happy to hear that your daughter's doing
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Speaker 3: all right, but yeah, no, thanks man, appreciate you.
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Speaker 5: Yeah, she's on the mend.
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Speaker 2: So excited about that, and equally excited about the fact
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Speaker 2: that we are now weeks away, set a months away.
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Speaker 2: We are weeks away from the beginning of a Big
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Speaker 2: twelve college football season. We'll start with things here.
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Speaker 3: Eighteen days, eighteen days to week zero.
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Speaker 2: We're twenty three days away from Utah kicking it off
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Speaker 2: against Idaho, but eighteen days away from your first Big
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Speaker 2: twelve game, eighteen days away from those week zero games.
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Speaker 2: So yeah, we're we're almost there. Ari, it's right around
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Speaker 2: the corner. And we'll start with the University of Utah. Obviously,
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Speaker 2: we paid close attention and we got people going up
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Speaker 2: and gathering sound of camp. Has has anything filtered into
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Speaker 2: the Ari Tempkins sphere of interest from the emerging stories
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Speaker 2: or the sound bites out of Utah football so far?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, look, I think
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Speaker 3: as camp is underway, and it's funny because you know,
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Speaker 3: in doing work with the Dallas Cowboys too, you see
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Speaker 3: like there's so much noise and there's so much attention
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Speaker 3: being paid to what's happening in practice, and I would
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Speaker 3: imagine even more so with what's happening in Utah, given
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Speaker 3: you've got you know, a new uh, a new regime.
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Speaker 3: It's funny though, because it feels like I'm not even
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Speaker 3: in reference to Utah, paying more attention to what Kyle
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Speaker 3: Whittingham is saying. You know how state rivalry is a
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Speaker 3: big dealer now, Like I saw answering questions about that,
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Speaker 3: you know, and and he's just in a blender in
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Speaker 3: a way that I hope think he ever anticipated or
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Speaker 3: clearly ever was a Utah It's sort of fun to watch.
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Speaker 3: And meanwhile, like under the radar, I think Morgan scally
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Speaker 3: has his crew you know, dialed in. I just know
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Speaker 3: the confidence that they showed and scaley in particular on
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Speaker 3: the biggest flaws or perceived flause for the team, like
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Speaker 3: they're being self aware is super important for humanity as people,
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Speaker 3: and I think it's also very important as a football
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Speaker 3: coach and with a football team. And I would say
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Speaker 3: that there's no better example of a coach being more
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Speaker 3: self aware than Morgan Scalley in Utah in terms of flaws,
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Speaker 3: perceived flaws, perceived weaknesses and those kinds of things.
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Speaker 2: Okay, people are probably sick of hearing me talk about
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Speaker 2: this kid, because he's a true freshman who as of
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Speaker 2: yet hasn't done anything for the University of Utah, And
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Speaker 2: obviously the hope is before he leaves here he's going
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Speaker 2: to be an All American and maybe a first NFL
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Speaker 2: draft pick. But for now, he's the highest rated recruit
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Speaker 2: in the program's history, and he's on every list of
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Speaker 2: most important freshmen in the Big Twelve, most important freshman
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Speaker 2: football players in the nation, things like that. I put
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Speaker 2: a question out for our listeners last week whether or
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Speaker 2: not they think Kelvin Obot starts over under five and
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Speaker 2: a half games on the season. And there's a lot
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Speaker 2: of wrinkles to this, all of which I think you
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Speaker 2: could probably infer without me trying to explain. But I'll
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Speaker 2: ask you the over under. Do you think Kelvin Obot
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Speaker 2: starts more than half the season or less than half
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Speaker 2: the season at whatever position along that offensive line for Utah?
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Speaker 3: I would take the over on that. I would take
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Speaker 3: the over on that. You know, it's we live in
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Speaker 3: a world right now where expectations for the premier positions
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Speaker 3: at a young age are being met, and it's I mean,
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Speaker 3: when you look at the Big Twelve as a whole.
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Speaker 3: West Virginia is doing a similar dynamic here with their
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Speaker 3: left tackle and Kevin Brown, who is not as highly
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Speaker 3: recruited as Obot, but is in position to be their
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Speaker 3: day one starter at left tackle. A couple of years ago,
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Speaker 3: Jordan Seeden, who's I would say similarly ranked with Kevin
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Speaker 3: Obot at Colorado, started from day one and was pretty
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Speaker 3: dog gone good despite the offensive line around him being
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Speaker 3: pretty terrible. I mean, it's all around us in terms
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Speaker 3: of the development of athletes overall. Like we're in baseball,
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Speaker 3: you know, we're seeing guys gets the major leagues quicker
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Speaker 3: than ever before. You know, the White Sox distracted Rock
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Speaker 3: Schlawski from UCLA with the number one pick, and there's
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Speaker 3: talk that the way he's ascending in a few weeks
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Speaker 3: he could be with the White Sox by the end
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Speaker 3: of the year. These things are unheard of in the
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Speaker 3: last ten twenty years in sports. And like the quarterback position,
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Speaker 3: we've obviously seen a string of four or five star
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Speaker 3: freshmen starting quarterback across college football. Again, like you look
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Speaker 3: at the nineties, in two even early two thousands, like
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Speaker 3: this this was unheard of. You know, even Tua when
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Speaker 3: he came into the National Championship game was like a
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Speaker 3: true freshman coming in in that spot. So I think
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Speaker 3: when you look at quarterbacks, you look at left tackles,
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Speaker 3: you look at defensive ends, it almost seems like there's
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Speaker 3: an expectation when there are guys recruited that highly that
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Speaker 3: they're going to play right away. And it's not just
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Speaker 3: an expectation, it's because of the development of these kids
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Speaker 3: from a young age. It's they're becoming pros earlier. They
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Speaker 3: understand how to take care of their bodies more at
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Speaker 3: an earlier age. They understand the what goes into it
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Speaker 3: from a you know, a nutritional standpoint earlier from a
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Speaker 3: younger age. So I think all these factors play into
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Speaker 3: why these guys not only are able to play earlier,
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Speaker 3: but are able to be better earlier. So I'll take
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Speaker 3: the over on that. Everything I've heard about this kid
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Speaker 3: tells me that they'd be crazy not to find a
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Speaker 3: spot for him to start on that offensive line this year.
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Speaker 3: It's specially given the tackle position and what they're what
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Speaker 3: they are losing from last year.
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Speaker 2: So I'm with you on that. I think there's a
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Speaker 2: lot of Utah fans that are are dubious about whether
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Speaker 2: or not they want to take that risk. But for
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Speaker 2: him and for every other young player, not only at
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Speaker 2: Utah but in this in this big twelve conference, right,
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Speaker 2: I feel as though the coaches all have to do
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Speaker 2: this delicate, you know, tightrope walk, where Okay, I've got
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Speaker 2: this young guy coming in, or I've got this transfer
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Speaker 2: that I think is going to be great, whatever, and
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Speaker 2: I could use him now and maybe I you know,
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Speaker 2: maybe he's eighty percent of my returning starter, maybe he's
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Speaker 2: ninety percent of my returning starter, or I could I
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Speaker 2: could just.
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Speaker 5: Go with like the old reliable.
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Speaker 2: So where do you stand on Where do you think
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Speaker 2: these coaches stand on the higher upside? That might be riskier,
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Speaker 2: especially if you're Texas Tech, your BYU, you're Houston, You're Arizona,
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Speaker 2: at your Utah where you think this year could be
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Speaker 2: a good year for you, You're Morgan Scally, You're like,
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Speaker 2: I want to get this thing started off the right way,
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Speaker 2: but I also need to make sure that I'm you know,
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Speaker 2: developing these guys and building this thing for the future.
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Speaker 5: Where do you draw the line on that balance?
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Speaker 3: Ari?
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Speaker 2: Is it just the best player available? No matter how
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Speaker 2: much you know upside there is. The timing doesn't matter.
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Speaker 2: I just need the guy who's going to produce this
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Speaker 2: week the most, or do you play a little bit
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Speaker 2: of the I might have to suffer a little bit
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Speaker 2: with some errors in the first half of the season,
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Speaker 2: thinking that by the end of the year then he's
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Speaker 2: really ready to be the guy I want.
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Speaker 4: Him to be.
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Speaker 3: That's a great question, and I think if you talk
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Speaker 3: to fifteen different people, you probably would get fifteen different answers.
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Speaker 3: I mean, I would start with your offensive line coach,
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Speaker 3: and I think you know, given the experience, giving his knowledge,
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Speaker 3: given what he's been through, and even though he's new
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Speaker 3: into coaching in this capacity, boy does he have a
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Speaker 3: ton of incredible experience at that position and playing at
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Speaker 3: a high level. And so in some ways, Number one,
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Speaker 3: I'm going to defer to him, who's the better player?
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Speaker 3: That's my first question to him. Who's the better player
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Speaker 3: in your mind? Okay? And then now let's dig deeper
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Speaker 3: into who's the better player five weeks into the season,
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Speaker 3: and if Obat gets four weeks of experience, is he
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Speaker 3: going to be better if in week five than this
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Speaker 3: guy that we know about chan't. I'm I'm usually gonna
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Speaker 3: be the ceiling guy, because you know what, the it's
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Speaker 3: great to have old, reliable and have the ceiling that
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Speaker 3: you know and that's established. But if my floor and
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Speaker 3: with obat my floor is not very.
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Speaker 4: Low, is as close enough to that ceiling of the
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Speaker 4: guy that I know, then I'm fine taking some lumps
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Speaker 4: early on the problem.
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Speaker 3: The difference here is in the development. Number one. I
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Speaker 3: think kids are mentally tougher in some ways, and that
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Speaker 3: like I'm not worried about like if he starts day
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Speaker 3: one and then he doesn't grow and get better and
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Speaker 3: he's dealing with some adversity, I can bench him for
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Speaker 3: a few weeks and I'm not going to kill him,
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Speaker 3: and I'm not going to kill his confidence because I
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Speaker 3: think that that was always something in the back of
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Speaker 3: people's minds. They talked about playing some of those you know,
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Speaker 3: those those phenoms quote unquote early on. I don't know
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Speaker 3: that we've seen that. I mean, we've seen guys that
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Speaker 3: have bounced back from that kind of stuff, and I
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Speaker 3: just think there's a mele toughness in an edge that
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Speaker 3: allows guys to get better. But ultimately I would rather
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Speaker 3: go with the guy with the higher ceiling, and I
10:28
Speaker 3: wouldn't be afraid to replace him if I'm four or
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Speaker 3: five weeks into the season and I'm not seeing that growth,
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Speaker 3: because to me, again, it's all about who's better. And
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Speaker 3: you know, if it is that they're close enough and
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Speaker 3: that we think the guy with the higher ceiling and
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Speaker 3: the five star freshmen and five weeks he's going to
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Speaker 3: be significantly better and he's not, you know, then I'm
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Speaker 3: probably going to go with the guy there's ceiling, I know,
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Speaker 3: deeper into the season, because if the guy isn't progressing
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Speaker 3: by week four, week five, chances are he's not going
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Speaker 3: to progress by week eight or week nine, and he's
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Speaker 3: probably going to get better off. And you know by
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Speaker 3: learning and watching and observing, and I think, look, everybody's different,
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Speaker 3: and I would hope by now Morgan Scaley would have
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Speaker 3: and Jordan Gross too would have a good sense of
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Speaker 3: the personality of each of their players, especially along that
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Speaker 3: offensive line. And you got to know, like, is he
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Speaker 3: the type of guy that wants to push you see,
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Speaker 3: the type of guy that lacks confidence, you know, or
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Speaker 3: is he over the comp you know? I think so
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Speaker 3: much of this too. For me, depends on the person
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Speaker 3: and making sure that you know, I'm doing what's in
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Speaker 3: the best interest of that person based on their personality,
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Speaker 3: because you know, no two people are alike that way,
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Speaker 3: and people are gonna be motivated and captivated by different things.
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Speaker 4: Uh.
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Speaker 2: ESPN put out an article about how much each position
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Speaker 2: costs in college football these days, and obviously this is
11:43
Speaker 2: a major topic of discussion in the Big Twelve because
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Speaker 2: you have to keep up with the Joneses of the
11:47
Speaker 2: Big Ten and the SEC and Notre Dame and things
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Speaker 2: like that. Do we know definitively who the highest paid
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Speaker 2: player in this Big twelve is? Because it seemed like
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Speaker 2: it was going to be Brandon Soresby at Texas Tech,
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Speaker 2: and you know that is now a mess. Do we
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Speaker 2: know who the highest paid player in the Big Twelve.
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Speaker 3: Is this year? It's a great question. I'm trying to
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Speaker 3: think through that. I would imagine it's still a player
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Speaker 3: on Texas Tech. I'm trying to think. I know, Cutter
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Speaker 3: Bowley is pretty cost a decent amount Arizona State, but
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Speaker 3: I don't know that he I mean, he certainly is
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Speaker 3: not in the Soresby category, nor is he in the
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Speaker 3: Sam Levitt or or Josh Hoover category. I'm trying to
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Speaker 3: think of other incoming quarterbacks of the lines of Barnett.
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Speaker 3: You know, I'm sure that he costs, you know, U
12:32
Speaker 3: us ucs a ton of money. My guess is it's
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Speaker 3: probably somebody at Texas Tech. It could be one of
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Speaker 3: their edge rushers that they added, It could be one
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Speaker 3: of the tackles either that they've added or maintained. It's
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Speaker 3: a great question, though, because I don't think it's Keishaan Henderson,
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Speaker 3: the five star and coming freshman for quarterback at Houston.
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Speaker 3: Do you have any thoughts on this is a great
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Speaker 3: question here. It was easily, so easily was the highest
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Speaker 3: paid player in college football.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like, okay, it's easily Brendan Soresby. Okay,
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Speaker 2: now it's not. So it's not Will Hammond, Right, it's not.
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Speaker 3: It's not.
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Speaker 2: It's not Devin Dan Pierre. So is it Boldie? Like
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Speaker 2: you said, is Bear Bachmeyer or LJ. Martin in that
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Speaker 2: conversation because BYU is always like, We're not going to
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Speaker 2: be the highest bidder, but you're a high bidder. A
13:25
Speaker 2: lot of these guys, so, right, like, what is Arizona
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Speaker 2: that they have to pay a bunch of money to
13:31
Speaker 2: keep noa Fafita around. So, I mean, I feel like
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Speaker 2: we have a pretty good sense of things everywhere else
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Speaker 2: in college football, and then these other conferences, and because
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Speaker 2: of the soorsby situation, I think that that question goes
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Speaker 2: for me a little bit unanswered until we find out
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Speaker 2: better information. But uh, the reason I asked that question
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Speaker 2: in the beginning, and this will be the last thing
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Speaker 2: before we let you go.
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Speaker 3: Uh.
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Speaker 2: You know, as we we see this thing trending and
13:55
Speaker 2: you hear all these coaches warning about, hey, you got
13:58
Speaker 2: to slow down this arms race, it's unsustainable.
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Speaker 5: Even the big dogs say it's unsustainable. Even Oregon in
14:04
Speaker 5: Michigan and Ohio State and Alabama are saying it's unsustainable.
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Speaker 5: How much longer can not Texas Tech, but the rest
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Speaker 5: of the Big twelve sustain If we don't get Congress
14:16
Speaker 5: intervening and we don't get how much longer can this
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Speaker 5: thing run out before it truly becomes that becomes unsustainable
14:23
Speaker 5: at the Big twelve level, with the exception of Texas Tech.
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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I would tell you at this point,
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Speaker 3: at the Big twelve level, it is very unsustainable. It
14:33
Speaker 3: is also funny as you alluded to that the folks
14:36
Speaker 3: that are setting the market here are the ones saying
14:39
Speaker 3: it's unsustainable. But you're the one setting the market, so
14:42
Speaker 3: you're you're clearly proven that it is sustainable. They just
14:46
Speaker 3: obviously don't want to spend it. I mean, we're talking
14:48
Speaker 3: about how much money that they're spending a lot of programs.
14:52
Speaker 3: Michigan is a great example of this, to you know,
14:57
Speaker 3: to pay coaches not to coach, to pay administrators not
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Speaker 3: to administrate. I mean that Michigan is paying a ton
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Speaker 3: for that. So you know, the coffers are you know,
15:07
Speaker 3: are full, and they're obviously having these insane expenditures right now.
15:12
Speaker 3: But I'm I'm a fair market guy, and quite frankly,
15:16
Speaker 3: the market continues to rise because the market value still
15:19
Speaker 3: hasn't been reached for these players. It is an unfortunate
15:22
Speaker 3: situation for the Big twelve because it all goes back
15:25
Speaker 3: to the fact that the Big ten and the SEC
15:27
Speaker 3: are making literally twice as much money year over year
15:30
Speaker 3: in their television revenue. So whereas BYU and many of
15:35
Speaker 3: these other Texas tech at U Tom these programs may
15:37
Speaker 3: have you know, really influential boosters that carry you know,
15:42
Speaker 3: heavy checkbooks. Remember the checks they're writing are just trying
15:45
Speaker 3: to make up at this point for the you know,
15:48
Speaker 3: for the the money that the Big twelve schools aren't
15:51
Speaker 3: getting relative to the Big Ten of the SEC. So
15:54
Speaker 3: like they're only making up for what is the difference
15:57
Speaker 3: between what the Big twelve is getting versus is the
16:00
Speaker 3: Big ten in the SEC, whereas SEC and Big ten schools,
16:03
Speaker 3: who are also deep pocketed, are making that money twice
16:06
Speaker 3: as much money as everybody else and then adding very
16:09
Speaker 3: lucrative boosters to the table. I'm looking at Michigan specifically here,
16:12
Speaker 3: who have extremely rich boosters, lots of them, and again
16:16
Speaker 3: they're already in front of everybody. You know, it's really interesting, Sean.
16:20
Speaker 3: One of the things that I was looking into is
16:23
Speaker 3: the percentage of the homegrown talent in the Big twelve.
16:27
Speaker 3: The Big twelve has two top ten programs nationally in
16:32
Speaker 3: percentage of homegrown talent. Basically, what percentage of your roster
16:35
Speaker 3: started at your school as a true freshman? Two watching
16:38
Speaker 3: a stab at who those two are. One of them
16:43
Speaker 3: is in the state, it's not it's not your school,
16:46
Speaker 3: so byu yep in Texas, but it ain't Texas Tech.
16:52
Speaker 2: So BYU in Houston CCU WOW top ten.
16:58
Speaker 3: Now, the third look at at the Big Twelve, specifically
17:01
Speaker 3: number three in the Big Twelve is Texas Tech at
17:04
Speaker 3: about seventy six percent, which is forty second nationally. So
17:10
Speaker 3: the Big Twelve has two teams the top ten of
17:13
Speaker 3: homegrown talent, and Texas Tech is third at forty second.
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Speaker 3: That's a big problem for this conference because that's what's
17:22
Speaker 3: not sustainable. That is not what's not sustainable, because look,
17:27
Speaker 3: you're going to have to pay for four and five
17:29
Speaker 3: star players, there's no doubt about it. But if the
17:30
Speaker 3: price tag as high as it would be for a transfer,
17:33
Speaker 3: especially I think given the nature and if you've got
17:36
Speaker 3: a guy that's let's say a four star, and you've
17:38
Speaker 3: got him on a deal and you say like, hey,
17:40
Speaker 3: you hit certain thresholds and now it's you know, now
17:43
Speaker 3: you're your revenue is going up. But that's that's where
17:46
Speaker 3: I think the Big Twelve is really missing out. And
17:49
Speaker 3: the Big Twelve has become a transient conference. And I
17:52
Speaker 3: think we know that acdotally, but analytically it's it's proving
17:55
Speaker 3: itself out too, and I think that OC is more
17:58
Speaker 3: unsustainable than anything else.
18:01
Speaker 2: All Right, you're the best. Appreciate you giving me some
18:04
Speaker 2: time today. Keep killing it on all the big twelve stuff,
18:07
Speaker 2: Keep killing.
18:08
Speaker 5: It on the cowboys stuff. Man, that's what a great thing.
18:11
Speaker 3: Appreciate your brother, take care and you're the best. Appreciate
18:14
Speaker 3: you very much.
18:15
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Speaker 2: get through my round a little bit quicker, a little
18:54
Speaker 2: bit less crowded. Stansbury Park checks all those boxes, but
18:57
Speaker 2: for the the golf nerds out there, six and thirty
19:03
Speaker 2: one yards over eighteen holes, seventy two par obviously the
19:09
Speaker 2: slope rating, which is not even a thing that I
19:13
Speaker 2: was aware of in the past, is one twenty five.
19:16
Speaker 2: You can head out there. You don't even have to
19:18
Speaker 2: have your clubs with you. You can go rent some
19:20
Speaker 2: from the pro shop, grab a cart, grab some clubs,
19:23
Speaker 2: grab a bucket of balls if that's all you want
19:25
Speaker 2: to do on the driving range, And when you head
19:27
Speaker 2: to Stansbury Park Golf Course, tell them that OC sent
19:30
Speaker 2: you one country club. Drive Stansbury Park, Utah, just off
19:36
Speaker 2: I eighty. It takes twenty minutes to get there, it
19:39
Speaker 2: takes twenty minutes to get back. That's less time than
19:43
Speaker 2: you're gonna spend stuck on I fifteen waiting for one
19:45
Speaker 2: of the courses, or driving to one of the courses
19:48
Speaker 2: up and down the Wassatch Front. Get to Stansbury Park
19:50
Speaker 2: Golf Course and tell them you heard about it on
19:52
Speaker 2: the Sean o'connells show today