Latest / Messy Minded Mama / Episode 17 - Marriage After Kids: Real Talk with Our Husbands (Part 1)

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Episode 17 - Marriage After Kids: Real Talk with Our Husbands (Part 1) · Messy Minded Mama

0:02
SPEAKER_00: Okay, welcome back to Messy Minded Mama.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: You just get Jen here today, but it's because we're diving into our episodes where we get to talk to our husbands.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: The one we have been waiting for, the one we've been promoting and asking you all about for so long now.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: So I am very happy to be sitting next to my husband, Tyler.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: Welcome, babe.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
0:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm excited.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: Good.
0:28
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna start by just getting you guys a little maybe introduced to us both together as a couple.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: So a couple questions to kick us off today.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: How long have we been together?
0:41
SPEAKER_02: Married nearly 10 years.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
0:45
SPEAKER_02: But together 13?
0:47
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I would say together, I don't know, totally.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 13 sounds right.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, somewhere in there.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: And we'll celebrate our 10-year wedding anniversary on July 23rd this year.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: How about who said I love you first?
1:03
SPEAKER_02: I think I did.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: I think you did too.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: Do you rem- I don't rem- I don't remember.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: I honestly don't.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: You can't remember what happened yesterday.
1:11
SPEAKER_02: That was 13 years ago.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Right.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: Do you think you said I love you right away?
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Right away, no.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: 13 years ago.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: Do you think it was pretty quick?
1:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't remember.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:23
SPEAKER_02: No.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: Within the first year, probably.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Somewhere in that range.
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: Well, we don't have to know all these things at this point in life.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: Who is more likely to lose their keys?
1:35
SPEAKER_02: Mamo.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: Fair.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: But why?
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Tell me more.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Why do we automatically go to meeting?
1:41
SPEAKER_02: Well, I guess maybe not loss, but I personally can never locate them.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:45
SPEAKER_02: They're in, you know.
1:46
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
1:47
SPEAKER_00: They move from one bag to another bag to the counter to the bedroom, the bathroom.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: That's fair.
1:55
SPEAKER_00: Who do you think is the stricter parent?
1:59
SPEAKER_00: I think I am.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: But I think we kind of balance it out.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: I think when you're not home, I have to be, and so I can take on that role, but I don't think that I do it maybe as well.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: I think that they listen to you better, which we'll get into in a little bit.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: Maybe more about that debate.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Alright, last one.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: What is one thing about me that surprised you after we became parents?
2:26
SPEAKER_00: And maybe I'll do this for you too.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, I just think the the level of detail.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: You know, I think I approach things from more of a 10,000-foot view, and you're you're down on the front lines.
2:45
SPEAKER_02: Attacking each detail, which I'm grateful for.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: But so funny that you say that, because I think one of my biggest pet peeves I've never really shared with anyone is when people talk out loud about like everything that they're doing.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: And then when I get to like that level of detail and focus with the kids, I know that I'm doing that.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: And it drives I drive myself crazy when I do it.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: But I don't know how to stop sometimes, you know?
3:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you want to give the kids a lot of instructions and they can only handle about the first one and a half bullet points before they run out of mental stamina.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: So right, what is what is my goal?
3:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm capped at like three thing, two?
3:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, should be capped around the two mark.
3:28
SPEAKER_02: We typically go to the four-five number.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we might be able to continue to work on that.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: The two mark is the happy place to do that.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll answer for you too.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: One thing that has surprised me about you after becoming parents, I think is you might not agree with this, but your level of patience.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Because I always thought that I would maybe have more than you, and I don't think that's always the case.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: I think that there's times that you are just like cool as a cucumber, the one calming me down, telling me to settle down, and you are more patient with our kids at times than I am.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: And it was uh that's a pleasant surprise.
4:09
SPEAKER_00: We needed that.
4:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's easy to be your own worst critic, so sometimes I don't perceive myself to be patient, but maybe now and again I I find a sweet spot.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you have it.
4:24
SPEAKER_00: It's good.
4:26
SPEAKER_00: Alright, let I would love for our audience to get to know us a little bit more through a story of our kids.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: And I think you know exactly where I'm headed with this.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: But we our son, our son Jack is seven years old.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: He recently dropped like one line, one phrase, maybe, to both of us that kind of like shook mama over here.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what to think about it, and has probably been the most talked-about phrase in our house since then.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: And this is probably, I don't know, going on two, three months ago.
4:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it's been a good run.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to let's recall that night?
5:03
SPEAKER_00: Do you want to share with the audience the story of how this came up and what our young Jack said to us?
5:09
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I will, and I have a tendency to embellish my storytelling, especially when it benefits myself, but I'll try to keep that in check.
5:17
SPEAKER_02: But we were in the garage and Jack loves to, you know, I we call it the shop.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: Jack loves to be in the shop and banging on nails and also out front playing with his neighbor friends.
5:29
SPEAKER_02: And uh Jen had come out a handful of times and said, Jack, time to come inside, time to eat dinner, we gotta go, we gotta go, we gotta go inside.
5:38
SPEAKER_02: And you kept asking the same question repeatedly.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: And then I look at Jack after he asks maybe three times.
5:44
SPEAKER_02: I said, Jack, it's time to go inside.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: And he said, Okay, and on he went.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: And and Jen called him out and said, Why did you immediately respond to dad and not mom?
5:59
SPEAKER_02: And he goes, Well, I mean, he's the main one.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: The main one.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: And uh boy, daddy was tickled by that one, but I don't think mom was as thrilled, and I really leaned into it.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: No, I when I say I was shook, I was literally like, in my mind, I was like, What do you mean?
6:19
SPEAKER_00: The main one, like the main one that is up with you in the morning cooking breakfast, like Monday through Friday.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: Daddy felt like weekend duty for sure, but like Monday through Friday, I'm here cooking breakfast, I'm doing school drop-off, like my mind automatically went to what in the actual why am I not the main one?
6:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, now I will say the kids have quickly recanted that title.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: I have tried to establish that the main one title has a one-year contract, and we cannot shift titles for at least 12 months.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I don't think my fake contract is holding up in kid court because I've quickly turned mommy into the main one.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: I think Elle at least is like, yeah, no, mommy, mommy, mommy, mommy, the main one.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: And Jack, like, depending on the day, maybe the moon, maybe like who he wants something from, but he's very smart in that way.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yes, yes.
7:12
SPEAKER_02: He plays the crowd well.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know, maybe you guys can decide by the end of this episode who's the main one and who deserves the title.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: Or should we let this contract go for the year?
7:24
SPEAKER_00: And then maybe I'll work on it next year.
7:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, tryouts again next spring.
7:30
SPEAKER_02: So I love it.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: I think it's a great way to show the humor that we have in our house, the way that our kids just kind of show up from time to time for us and surprise us from time to time.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: And I love that we're able to have like this healthy competition with it.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: Alright, why don't we shift into a little bit more about what we have heard from you all in the audience and what you really wanted to know with having our husbands come on.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: So we get Tyler this week, Kate and Taylor will be on soon, and they will get a chance to answer some questions as well.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: But why don't we start with the question you guys most wanted to know is what dads wish moms knew?
8:14
SPEAKER_00: And we have a couple things that we pulled out that we felt we could weigh in on today.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: So, Tyler, tell me a little bit about what pressure dads feel.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, it was interesting because you brought up a story that uh we experienced when Jack was first born, and frankly, I kind of pushed it out of my mind, but I think it was an interesting story that helps relate to this question and that when Jack was born, we were in the hospital I think for four to five days.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: He had a 24-hour stint in the NICU, and so we were there quite some time.
8:48
SPEAKER_02: And we ended up getting a nurse that uh was certainly opinionated, and um, I think it was day three, and she had come into the room, and you know, she was asking me 400 questions about bowel movements and X, Y, and Z, and you know, I didn't have each bowel movement memorized, and you know, and so I I picked up on that, and I felt like I had improved as the stay continued.
9:16
SPEAKER_02: And then she came in later in the day and and I was taking a nap, and she had told me, you know, hey, we are you know, we're here to do some work, and are you going to be a part of it, or are you gonna sleep the whole time?
9:30
SPEAKER_02: And certainly interesting, you know, it's uh, you know, it's shouldn't put too much weight in in one individual's comments, but um I think where I'm going with this is that sometimes dads are um maybe given a a stigma that we are not there to contribute or to be a part of uh raising the children.
9:54
SPEAKER_02: Certainly at first there's the challenges with the feeding and the things that we can contribute to and can't.
9:59
SPEAKER_02: I think in general, um human beings uh are born with a natural ability and want and desire to raise kids, and um that certainly uh applies to dads.
10:13
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think that stigma maybe applies additional pressure to people that are entering parenthood that maybe makes the operation slightly more uh challenging for the males.
10:26
SPEAKER_02: Um and certainly there's a huge amount of pressure on on the females, but uh just a story that I thought was uh apropos to the the situation.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally, and I still I will never forget that nurse, I will never forget like that first experience, and honestly, like the damper that she kind of like put on our first experience, I think, because of those comments.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: But I do appreciate you sharing it because we yeah, we talk a lot in the space about the pressure that moms feel or the mental load that we'll get into in this conversation, even but things that we uh carry and we open space for here.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: But I think to be able to hear your perspective as a dad and something that something very real that happened in these very early days of being a dad and how much that weighed on you.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: I think even I we were talking about this before, but like fast-forwarding two years later when we had Elle, I remember you being like, Okay, I'm headed into this situation, like I have my notebook ready, I'm gonna stay awake.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: Like it was assuming that you needed to like show up in a certain way, even though you had been doing the dad role for almost two years at that point in time and doing it very well, it's still this need to feel like you needed to show that you were there on it, capable of like taking on this responsibility for a second time, and it it's that pressure, it's that stigma that you're talking about.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's good to be able to share that and um talk openly about that from the dad's perspective as well.
11:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so for you future parents living in the general Boston area, having the Mass General to have kids, uh there's one particular nurse you may want to avoid.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: I remember saying if I see her at Starbucks, like I do not know in my very like postpartum state what I'm going to say to that woman.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: Like, do not let me run into her, yes, it was so I if I had her name, I probably would share it right now, but I don't remember.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: I have at least blocked out that part.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: Well we were ready to roll around too.
12:20
SPEAKER_02: We yeah, we had the pen pig, we're we were ready to hit the ground running.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: And had like such a different experience too.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: So it was that one individual in particular that kind of painted that picture.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, all good the second time around.
12:32
unknown: Yeah.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: Alright, can you uh tell the audience and me?
12:37
SPEAKER_00: I'd love to hear your answer to this too.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: What makes you feel appreciated?
12:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I talk openly, obviously, to Jen and to other dads about this, but there's there's this interesting thing that happens with uh raising children that slowly but surely your own independence and the things that bring you personal passion, independent passion, get slightly eroded because you are expending most of your energy on the people that depend on you in your family.
13:07
SPEAKER_02: But what happens there is if you're not focused wholly on something that brings you passion within your own core, I think over time, at least for me, I I think I've become less engaged as a as a dad.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: And so what makes me feel the most appreciated is when I'm given that space.
13:23
SPEAKER_02: And I've I've taken up a hobby in these last several years, and I've been provided uh ample amount of space to participate in that hobby, and that centers me.
13:33
SPEAKER_02: I think it makes me more patient.
13:36
SPEAKER_02: Maybe that's where part of that comes from.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: And it just it it uh gives me uh space to do what what brings me uh the most joy.
13:46
SPEAKER_02: So that's certainly what where I feel the appreciation the most.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think you're tapping into like so much identity pieces there too, and a great segue for us actually into marriage after kids because I think what what you're talking about and this desire for you mostly came after kids.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: You ran a little bit, right?
14:06
SPEAKER_00: We both kind of did before having Jack, but your passion for this has really just kicked up in the last four, maybe five years, right?
14:14
SPEAKER_00: And that's all time with kids, right?
14:16
SPEAKER_00: So I think talking about that and recognizing the things that we need in ourselves after kids has been so important too.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: So let's jump into like a little bit about what our audience wanted to know for marriage after kids.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: So maybe jumping into what changed most in our marriage after becoming parents, maybe your perspective, and then I'll share mine.
14:38
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's a broad word, but the word connection comes to mind.
14:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, it was easy for us to connect before kids.
14:48
SPEAKER_02: That's maybe an obvious statement.
14:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think we it's obviously a challenge.
14:55
SPEAKER_02: There's other people, there's other distractions, there's other mommy, mommy, mommies flying around and daddy let's go, ride our bikes, and all these things that pull from a one-to-one connection.
15:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and partnerships thrive on on that connection, and um certainly you can do that while parenting as a as a family, but I think removing that influence to connect the way you did when you first met is also important and fun, and those things are good are good and healthy and should be maintained.
15:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's bringing up for me our one thing Tyler and I do or try to do well every year is go into the new year with like this conversation.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: I don't know that we necessarily say like we're gonna have this big New Year's resolution, but we do go into every new year talking about common goals, goals that we want in our marriage, and then goals that we want for us individually that year, and then we try to attach like one word to it, right?
15:56
SPEAKER_00: That um represents all of that for us as individuals and for us as parents and in this marriage.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: And we had the year of connection one year, which is what you're talking about, and I think we both came up with that because we were both maybe at that time searching for something that we needed on our own individually, going back to some identity stuff, but also what we were feeling was lacking at the time in our marriage, and what and after having two kids and two kids for a while, right?
16:21
SPEAKER_00: And how you start to like feel that being pulled apart a little bit or less intentional time focused on it, and when we kind of set those goals, then I think then we get re-rooted back into those things that are important to us.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna remember doing that.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Do you remember setting goals like that?
16:36
SPEAKER_00: Like pre-kids, that was definitely something that came afterwards, right?
16:40
SPEAKER_01: No, I think I think we started that up five, four or five years ago.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: And it's been so healthy, I think, to be able to talk about those changes in our relationship throughout the year, and again, set individual goals, but also what do we want in this family to?
16:55
SPEAKER_00: But I think one thing that it probably goes without saying, because a lot of people probably experience it when I think about what's changed for us most after becoming parents, it's just the time to talk, right?
17:06
SPEAKER_00: It's like that freedom to be able to have the conversations whenever we need to, uninterrupted conversations, especially, but really being able to like get all of our thoughts out.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think I've joked about this on the podcast before, but it's like your time at bedtime is to like go and decompress for the day, and I like come in the room and I'm like, no, I have 10 things I need to tell you because I wasn't able to get it out, and before you know it, the day's over, and then you're gone for work, and then who knows when I want to talk to you again, you know.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: So I think that again, a lot of families probably recognize that, but that's the biggest thing that I think has shifted for us that we have to like continue to fight back and get like this intentional time to catch up and talk.
17:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think our challenge too is our careers don't necessarily dictate the same schedule.
17:54
SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, mine lends itself to a much earlier day, and therefore, I'm fairly neurotic about bedtime.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, but also it just it helps highlight finding that time, using your help, using your resources to watch the kids so that we can just communicate, just like we're doing right here.
18:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which actually tonight's a perfect example of like things that we're trying to maybe do better.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: Our kids are dropped off with my mom and dad for the night.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: We have a date night so that we can record the podcast, but also have like a nice dinner, nice uninterrupted conversation.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: And I love nights like this where we can actually do that.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, well, maybe this already answered that.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: What's one thing we've had to intentionally work on?
18:42
SPEAKER_00: That's one thing.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: We carve out space.
18:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:45
SPEAKER_02: But I think to add to that, we talk about the year of and we always try to agree on, you know, whether it's the year of conviction, the year of connection.
18:54
SPEAKER_02: We, you know, we've we've come up with a couple of these over time.
18:57
SPEAKER_02: But what we've done uh recently is we printed out a sheet of things, words, emotions that speak to us.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: And we did a value sort.
19:09
SPEAKER_02: Value sort, okay.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: That's the term I was looking for.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: And um we would highlight things and then we'd compare after we went through the the sort.
19:17
SPEAKER_02: And um I think we surprised one another as the things that we were interested in or that spoke to us.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's good.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: We were looking for a way to approach this as a team, but also recognize what's important as individuals, because they both have they both have value.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: And I love being able to do that with you, and I think we surprised each other, but honestly, some of it like it got me thinking again about just shifts over time, right?
19:45
SPEAKER_00: And some of it surprised me of like what's really important to me today versus maybe what had been important to me in past life.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: You talk about like marriage after kids, or you talk about like life after kids in general, it's like how much of that has shifted for us.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: And you talk about your passion of running and being able to really carve out space for yourself, and I think all of that speaks to it too.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: Like, that looks a lot different than it used to.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: For sure.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're gonna move on and we're gonna spend a little bit of time talking about the mental load.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: So we'll answer a couple more questions around just this topic in general because we do feel like it's so oh, it stopped recording.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're gonna pivot a little bit and we're gonna spend some time talking about the mental load.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: This is another kind of request from our audience of just maybe being able to understand kind of the perspective a little bit from both of us.
20:42
SPEAKER_00: So, Tyler, did you understand the concept of mental load before becoming a dad?
20:48
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely not.
20:50
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: Nothing more real and true than that.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: No.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay, do you want to elaborate?
21:02
SPEAKER_00: Maybe how has it shifted for you now that you are aware of the mental load that you carry?
21:09
SPEAKER_00: I know, I guess I'm gonna pause here for a minute and just acknowledge that there's a lot of conversation around moms and the invisible mental load and all of that.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: And as a mom, I totally believe that that is true.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: I think that they're we you talk about my detail, right?
21:23
SPEAKER_00: My level of detail.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, that's there partly because of like all the things hitting my inbox and all the worries that I have that I have for our kids that you don't necessarily carry in the same way.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: But curious for you, mental load as a dad, maybe share a little bit more from your perspective of what that looks like and maybe tell me that dads do actually have that.
21:47
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think this is an interesting conversation that I bet most parents struggle with.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: I know we did early on.
21:56
SPEAKER_02: It's really easy to line up the tasks.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: That mom performs and the ones that dad performs, and to try to make sure that that list is exactly the same length, and we're spending the same amount of time focusing on parenting and all of the things.
22:11
SPEAKER_02: And the reality is that it should be balanced, right, in general.
22:15
SPEAKER_02: But every day and every hour and every minute, if you're trying to make that perfectly balanced, you're gonna go crazy.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: And so I think it's important, and we've talked uh a lot about this, um, especially recently with camps and summer and all of the detail around okay, this is PJ day, this is bring an extra snack day, this is and it, and if you forget it, you know, that that teacher reminds you of it.
22:44
SPEAKER_02: It's certainly a that is uh a list that you carry.
22:49
SPEAKER_02: Um that I'm fortunate that I don't need to because you're you're you're doing that.
22:56
SPEAKER_02: Now, could I do more there for sure?
22:58
SPEAKER_02: And I think we talked about maybe there's ways for me to get involved in some of that, some of those tasks.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: Um but I think the just general uh human instinct for males versus females is is different, right?
23:13
SPEAKER_02: Um you could probably go all the way back to you know the cavemen and what were the roles of of a mom versus a dad, and and obviously our society has come a long way since then.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: But I think for me the the stress is maybe a little bit more black and white, you know.
23:32
SPEAKER_02: Does the house function properly?
23:34
SPEAKER_02: Right?
23:35
SPEAKER_02: Does the furnace work when it's about to get cold?
23:38
SPEAKER_02: We had a little scare this past winter with that.
23:40
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's 89 degrees today.
23:43
SPEAKER_02: Is the air conditioner gonna hold up another year?
23:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, do the cars work, right?
23:48
SPEAKER_02: I pick up when we're taking a drive and the car's making a weird noise.
23:52
SPEAKER_02: Okay, is this gonna take a vehicle out of commission for a week so that we can get it repaired, and how much will that cost?
23:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, those kinds of maybe more black and white things um are kind of on my plate, if you will.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:08
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I think the moms in general tend to, and I don't want to speak for everybody, but they tend to uh bear more of a um psychological load and the kids' emotional stability.
24:23
SPEAKER_02: And certainly I am invested in you know the emotions of our children if they're having a hard day, etc.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think I'm able to compartmentalize it differently, and it's not better or worse, and neither parent does it better or worse, but we just do it differently.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think one thing that we have learned about each other over the years, and one thing I think we do well is not being able, not kind of getting into the tit for tat of who's doing what.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: We definitely have our disagreements, right?
24:52
SPEAKER_00: We definitely have the times where I know things that you would prefer to come home to, the counter being, you know, completely cleaned off, and like have you come into like a low stress environment in the house.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: And I don't always do that, right?
25:03
SPEAKER_00: So there's times when we need those reminders of like it'd be really helpful if you do this or that.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: But I do think we meet each other for the most part with this.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: We're both putting in an effort, we're putting in a solid effort.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm so appreciative of the list of the things that you just mentioned that you do that I don't even my car's making a noise.
25:20
SPEAKER_00: I what?
25:21
SPEAKER_00: I didn't even hear it.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: I haven't heard it for the last two months going on.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: So I don't pay attention to those things, and I with that I understand that there's things that I am more detailed with and pay attention to that you don't think is important and don't pay attention to either.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: So I do think sometimes with gentle reminders, we do a good job of being able to balance each other out in all of those ways.
25:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think we're fortunate, and I think this would probably be useful to the listeners, and you know, Kate and Jen have made wonderful careers in the realm of mental health.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: And I myself have been on a journey for the last year and a half in therapy and learned a lot about how to connect with people, and it very rarely is effective when you're asking the other to do something and rather using the I, me words to say, hey, this is the emotion I'm feeling, this is what this is what bothers me.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: And look, you can't come home and say, hey, these 15 things bother me.
26:23
SPEAKER_02: But if something's elevated on that list, then over time say, Hey, look, this is important to me that that that we make a shift here.
26:29
SPEAKER_02: If you have a um a spouse that that loves you and cares about you, they're gonna they're gonna make that shift, and you do that very well with me.
26:37
SPEAKER_02: Say, hey, look, this is something that really spikes my anxiety, or something that bothers me, and we try to adjust accordingly.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I agree.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: And I would love since we're going there with just kind of like mental health and therapy and just the work that we've been doing.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: I think I've been really open in this space, as you know, of talking about anxiety and the high level of anxiety I carry, and how I've been working really hard to manage that and kind of improve that for myself and for our family.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: But I'm curious if you have anything you can share of just what it's been like for you to see that journey and more like lean on the negative.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, what has it been like being married to someone with anxiety and what have what has that caused you when it's caught when it's come to extra pressure, extra stress, being able to like manage that alongside like our kids and being there to support me through it.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm just curious what you wouldn't have to share about your experience because I talk a lot about mine and only own mine, but don't necessarily know what it's like for you.
27:34
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it's easy for people that live together to start to assume the feelings and emotions of the other in both ways, you know, it's not just with you and your anxiety, it's me and my neurotic tendencies around the house.
27:52
SPEAKER_02: And um, so you know, when we go into a space that brings you high anxiety, it's very difficult to avoid elevating my level of anxiety just by being, you know, in that space.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: And and I think we both realize that we affect one another in that way, but you know, that's not useful to the greater good of the family to put the guilt on the other, hey, your anxiety is bringing me anxiety.
28:20
SPEAKER_02: That's that's not useful, but that's certainly a side effect that has to be dealt with in a tactful way, which which is difficult because when your emotional state is maybe off-kilter, yeah, you don't always make the best decisions, and so that leads to other challenges.
28:38
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, just trying to recenter.
28:41
SPEAKER_02: We always talk about the deep breaths.
28:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you've given me that advice in the past, and I may have pushed it off, but it's true.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: It works and it helps.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: It helps, right?
28:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and I think just recognizing like trying to pick up on the things that we these cues of like we know when someone, when our partner's in that space and when they need maybe a little bit more caring touch, right, to be able to kind of go through that um together, especially in environments that are more anxiety-provoking.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: But I want I think that brings me to just maybe some advice for other couples that are whether it's struggling with just mental health challenges that you have, if it's struggling as new parents, if you're brand new and you're just into this, think one thing that we try to do and we and I think we do well, but I think it's taken us some time to like really pay attention to this and focus on it.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: And I think therapy has helped with this is having really open conversations, right?
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Being able to sit down, find the right time and space, and we don't always find the right time and space, and then we know it, and if it doesn't go well, then they don't always go well, and they don't always but then we call it out, right?
29:46
SPEAKER_00: We say, We're not I'm not responding in the way I want to, or I don't know why I'm responding in this way, and we kind of can pip back up at a different time when maybe we have the energy to be able to give to the space and we can listen to the other perspective more.
29:58
SPEAKER_00: So don't give up on open communication, even if it doesn't work well the first time or it's not the right time for it.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: I guess would be one thing that I want to remind people of of just the beauty and being able to be with your partner, recognize that you're in this together, you are a team for a reason, right?
30:13
SPEAKER_00: You picked each other for a reason, and in the hard days, I think trying to really just get re-rooted back into that and find that communication and that connection in those moments because that's what matters, and I think that's what helps, that's what's helped us through it.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: Right.
30:26
SPEAKER_02: And and in general, parents have done the hard part, they found a spouse that is very difficult to do.
30:35
SPEAKER_02: There's you know, there's billions of people in this world, and you found somebody that you connect with and can raise a family with.
30:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's important that you maintain that, but just know the hard part, I believe, is over.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: And now you need to just maintain, you gotta change your oil in the truck, and then you gotta take care of it.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: It is maintenance from here on for we did the hard part and I love that so much.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let me check here and see if there's any other questions we feel maybe passionate about diving into before we do a rapid fire.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, so let's just do a couple maybe easy ones.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: What do husbands actually want for Father's Day?
31:21
SPEAKER_00: We are doing this, but maybe intentionally, a couple weeks before Father's Day.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: So give us like all the all the keys.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: Unlock this like question mark box for us for anyone that's out there wondering.
31:32
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, I don't think I'm gonna help too many people here because the I feel like the answer changes as you grow, right?
31:39
SPEAKER_02: I think the answer used to be like let's let dad disappear in the golf course for five hours.
31:46
SPEAKER_02: And I think today it looks different than that.
31:48
SPEAKER_02: You know, I get a ton of joy in going out in the woods uh as a family or to the lake and and watching the kids just like truly soak up every bit of that.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: And then again, as we talked about before, allowing space for that individual passion, which which we have have done a decent job of over the years, not just on Father's Day, but just throughout life.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that is helpful.
32:16
SPEAKER_00: I know you well enough to know that if I buy you one more kitchen gadget Father's Day, that is not gonna fill your cup, that is not what you're after.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: We will be camping, we will be having a good time, and we will be connecting on Father's Day, and maybe I'll come up with something else.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I have three different meat thermometers throughout this house.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: So you're right.
32:43
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have a meat thermometer, maybe get a one.
32:45
SPEAKER_02: I mean, one's good, that's a good gift.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Tyler does not need any point.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's move into our rapid fire to kind of close this out for today.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we are gonna ask you.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna you won't why don't you ask the questions and then we'll just point to each other.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: Who is who does this apply to?
33:08
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: Who is more likely to start a deep conversation at 11 o'clock at night?
33:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay, for sure me.
33:17
SPEAKER_00: Tyler's asleep.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Bye then.
33:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: Agreed.
33:23
SPEAKER_02: This hour in particular, maybe we shift that back to 9 p.m.
33:28
SPEAKER_02: I very rarely see 11 p.m.
33:31
SPEAKER_02: So if you are having a deep conversation with me, I possibly don't hear it.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: And I'm also not, but even at, let's say even at 9:30 p.m., it would probably be me wanting to start it, and you may or may not be a part of it.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: Right.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we agree.
33:46
SPEAKER_02: Who spends more money on Amazon?
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this one's a layout.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: The packages all come to Tyler Duncan, but Tyler Duncan is.
33:57
SPEAKER_02: None more.
33:58
SPEAKER_02: We changed accounts, so now we did change it.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: It's hands down me, for sure.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: But maybe over the year for like dollars spent, I don't know, you might have like some bigger dollar items.
34:10
SPEAKER_00: So does that count?
34:12
SPEAKER_02: That's true.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: Total, I I think this one's closer to a tie than maybe I give you credit for.
34:18
SPEAKER_00: Coffee, we the certain things come in Amazon that we like.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: Nice coffee.
34:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
34:24
SPEAKER_02: Coffee habits got nothing.
34:25
unknown: Okay.
34:26
SPEAKER_02: Talking about kitchen catch-ups.
34:29
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: Moving on.
34:33
SPEAKER_02: Who is more likely to hear mommy or daddy from across the house?
34:38
SPEAKER_00: Me.
34:40
SPEAKER_02: For sure.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: Okay, good.
34:43
SPEAKER_02: We've changed to work on this one because I will be standing next to the children, and I think this has come up in previous sessions of the podcast, if that's the right term.
34:53
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: That I'll be I'll be standing in the room with the children, and they'll scream across the room from mommy, and I'm like, guys, I dad Daddy knows for the church.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
35:05
SPEAKER_02: I got you here.
35:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:08
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I love that we agree because that is hands down.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: I will be the one to hear it and probably the one to respond to part.
35:16
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:17
SPEAKER_02: And these are these are all these are all little lops I hear.
35:19
SPEAKER_02: The next question is who remembers the school spirit days?
35:23
SPEAKER_02: We we touched on this one, you know.
35:26
SPEAKER_02: The kids at school have these jewel jars or they get rewarded for being good kids.
35:32
SPEAKER_02: And an email occasionally will come out at the beautiful hour of 10 p.m.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:38
SPEAKER_02: Hey, these kids get to do XYZ tomorrow.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to bring 19 additional things in their backpack.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: And for for all you educators out there, we love you.
35:49
SPEAKER_02: Yes, we care about you, but just please, like we're not as dialed as you may think.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: No, we need we need simplification if we can, please.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: Plus it's more, yeah.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: Because so, okay, I do remember more school spirit days, but I'm also not remembering them all.
36:05
SPEAKER_00: And then I feel so guilty.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: Because you're right, we show up and the teachers know that we missed it, the kids know, and yeah, it's not always a pretty scenario.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: So, yes, true.
36:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh, what's one thing your wife does that you could never do?
36:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is this is a good one.
36:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, just the level of we've used the word patience recently here, but the level of patience to withstand the the drop-off pickup routine, and again, that's been talked about on on this podcast before as well, but to me, the lot you know what type of anxiety, like the very rare opportunity that I get to take the kids to school, and it truly feels like there's like a 9% chance that I'm actually going to deliver both of them to school and not forget a backpack that daddy did all once with all the stuff and get them in.
37:05
SPEAKER_02: And the I think the last time I did it, we had a dispute on the playground, that was a disaster, and and there's just there's just a lot, there's a level of pressure there that you know I just don't know that I can withstand.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: On the daily, yeah.
37:21
SPEAKER_02: And and uh I certainly commend uh whichever parent has that duty in the families out there, yeah.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you for I do have that 99% of the time I'll say I appreciate that.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
37:36
SPEAKER_02: Okay, things might start to shift here, but yeah.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: Who said we don't need any more baby gear?
37:41
SPEAKER_00: For sure you.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: I would if it were well talk about Amazon packages, when we had probably both kids in the early days, it would be like, what new swaddle has come out and how soon can it arrive so that our kids can sleep one hour extra or 10 minutes extra than they did the night before.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: So I was ordering a swaddle upon squattle upon swaddle, every brand, every size, every variety you could come across for both children.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: I did not learn any lessons.
38:13
SPEAKER_02: When I learned that there was a uh bassinet that cost$2,000, my jaw hit the floor, and I said, We're gonna need to tap the brakes here on the baby gear.
38:29
SPEAKER_02: I promise we'll keep this kid alive without that thing.
38:32
SPEAKER_02: It just among other gadgets.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: It's like the brand new shiny toy.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: We did not buy this, and I don't know how I don't think I pushed that hard for it, but I did see it and was like, hmm, I don't know.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe we need to entertain this.
38:48
SPEAKER_02: We we raised Jack for his the first year-ish of his life in South Boston, and I called it the Stroller Gang.
38:56
SPEAKER_02: A lot of little kids floating around that neck of the woods.
38:59
SPEAKER_02: And look, if you didn't have the right stroller, you you weren't cool.
39:03
SPEAKER_02: You you weren't in the gang.
39:05
SPEAKER_02: And uh boy, that was a discussion point.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't go to the local lactation meetings at the like community center if I didn't have like the right gear.
39:14
SPEAKER_02: Well, the corner Starbucks, too.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: You might not have been let in without an upper baby.
39:18
SPEAKER_02: Like sorry, we didn't accept you, you're kind with the Bob.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: True.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: We survived.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: We used the Bob.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: We love the Bob, we survived.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: Alright, last one.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: Alright, who said let's get a puppy?
39:34
SPEAKER_00: For sure me, with like a lot of tears, a lot of emotion behind that.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: Need a puppy, and thank God we got him.
39:43
SPEAKER_00: He's three years later, he's finally become manageable.
39:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:48
SPEAKER_02: We had just gotten our youngest out of potty trained, and and and we had moved on from that phase of our life, and sure enough, one month later, I couldn't fend off the the puppy debate, and uh we had to restart the potty training routine.
40:07
SPEAKER_02: Uh that one probably lasted longer than our kids.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we don't need kid advice, we need puppy advice in the south.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: That was a struggle for sure.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're gonna end today with maybe my favorite question because I think it's so important for us to be able to reflect a little bit back on like where are we at today, and as we continue to walk through this journey together, we chose each other, the hard part, like you said, is over.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: But what is one thing that you hope our kids will remember about our marriage as they continue to grow or when they're growing?
40:42
SPEAKER_02: I hope that our kids recognize that we are still able to have fun and do things that bring us joy.
40:52
SPEAKER_02: And I think that they won't understand that in their younger years, but I know that as they watch us go through life, they're going to take note of that.
41:03
SPEAKER_02: Now, we've done a great job of that, of course not, but I think we're trying to accomplish that each day, and um it's it's been it's been fun.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure, and I would agree.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: We talked recently, you shared some more like desire of introducing more spontaneous more spontaneity rather into our life and being able to really focus on that and put intentional focus.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: And I think if if we can continue to do that together and stay rooted in the things that bring us joy, both together and apart, and building that within this family, then I do hope that our kids will be able to learn that, right?
41:42
SPEAKER_00: Stay true to themselves too as they I think about our kids growing up and finding their person.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: And I always get like emotional when I think about like their first heartbreak and their first all the things they're gonna experience that we have been there, done that, and I'm hoping that one thing that we can continue to teach them is the importance of fun, the importance of connection, the importance of adventure, and them seeing us do that together, but also building that for ourselves too, and that they can stay true to who they are no matter who they find in their lives as well.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
42:12
SPEAKER_01: Well said.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being on, babe.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: This has been so much fun.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to get you guys the feedback on as we post this, as we share it.
42:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, any more questions for Rapid Fire, we'd be happy to do some follow ups.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh, Kate and Taylor will be sharing theirs very soon as well, and excited to just learn from them as we continue forward.
42:36
SPEAKER_00: So, thanks again for being on with me today, and we will see you next time.