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Your House Is Haunted. What Are You Going to Do About It? · High Five Hot Mess Podcast

• Lisa Wilson: I'm a ghost hunter. I have the equipment. I have the cool toys. I carry a box of sea salt in my car at all times. And we're gonna get into that. And I've had friends call me and say, I think my house is haunted. What the hell do I do? Do you try to get rid of it? Do you leave it alone? Can you try getting rid of it and actually make it worse? So I ask you: your house is haunted. What are you gonna do about it? Because Lisa and I have very different opinions about what you should do next. Let's get into it. we're gonna talk about my very favorite topic of things to talk about. Lisa S.: And my least favorite thing to talk. Lisa Wilson: That is true. that is very true. But listen, Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: it's interesting because you and I are on, we already both agree that ghosts are real. I have believed in ghosts since I was very, very young. Like my dad, Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: my dad, and this is a true story. My dad was raised by his grandmother who lived in the woods with a dirt floor. Lisa S.: Okay. Lisa Wilson: And she smoked a pipe Lisa S.: Cool. Lisa Wilson: and You know, like she told stories. Like she believed in all things folklore and she absolutely believed in ghosts. And so I remember being like, I don't know, five or six, and something about like, you know, the unexplained show was on TV. And yeah, and there was one Lisa S.: yeah, I remember that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: on ghosts. And I remember my dad saying, like sitting us all down on the couch. And when he was like, All right, if you're ever haunted, if there's a ghost. You need to tell that ghost to leave. Like you're the Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: boss of that ghost. And like literally instilled in my little baby five-year-old heart that I was the boss of those ghosts. I have I've never Lisa S.: I can just tell you to leave. Lisa Wilson: just get out. I'm the I'm the person. I'm the human. Right? And Lisa S.: The human with the body. Lisa Wilson: yeah. And so that's that's how I kind of got introduced to ghosts. So how old were you when you first learned about ghosts? Lisa S.: You know, it's a good question because I don't remember, to be honest. I mean, I remember being younger and having like terrifying nightmares that like something was in your room, not like a monster or anything, but like a person. And Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: so now looking back, I'm wondering, like, could there have been something in my room? But Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa S.: back then I couldn't explain it. I didn't have the words to say it, right? Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa S.: Like I didn't have I didn't have the vocabulary to explain what I would see. but then it like went away. Then I like never, you know, it was like for a period of time. And that's why I do think that like they get attached to a place, maybe, because it Lisa Wilson: Mm, mhm. Lisa S.: wasn't like in every house I lived in. It wasn't like in every like throughout my whole childhood. It was in particular places. And so that's where like looking back, I'm like, hmm. I don't know. Maybe. Lisa Wilson: I mean, I've always felt the presence of dead people. I just didn't Lisa S.: And Lisa Wilson: know what it was. I feel like the way that you and I would handle a haunting today is probably very different. But look Lisa S.: So different, I would think, because you're like you like have a whole history of like ghost hunting and things like that. Like very Lisa Wilson: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like a technically I am a ghost hunter. Like I have Yeah. Mm-hmm. Lisa S.: Yeah, you you are like l legit, have the equipment, have the knowledge, know all the things. I Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: should have called you a few years ago. Lisa Wilson: Okay, you would not be the first person. But let's Lisa S.: Shit. Lisa Wilson: let's go through our what would you do questions because it's super fucking fun. And Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: two, I'm dying to know. Okay, so you're at a party. First of all, Lisa S.: Okay. Lisa Wilson: if you invite me over for a party, we're gonna talk about witchcraft and we're gonna talk about ghosts. So if you don't want to talk about those Lisa S.: Ha ha ha Lisa Wilson: things, you don't want to talk about witchcraft and ghosts, you don't need to invite me over. Don't Lisa S.: Don't put me on the invite list. I'm not on there. Lisa Wilson: I'm not coming. All right, so but you're at a party 'cause you know, it's four PM in the afternoon. Lisa S.: Hmm. Lisa Wilson: And somebody pulls out a Ouija board. What do you do? Lisa S.: Ooh, I'm out. I don't deal. I don't I will not engage. I'm out. That will that is a number one goodbye. Lisa Wilson: So someone pulls out a Ouija board and you're out. Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: You're gonna be behind me because I'm leaving the second I see it. Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm out. with that. We're good. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: You get the hell out of here we're we're gonna go get some cupcakes. Lisa S.: Ha ha Lisa Wilson: okay, so question two. When you walk into someone's house, can you tell it's haunted? Lisa S.: I think you can tell a presence of of an energy shift. And that's what I will say that I know for sure. That I would know that there's something that doesn't feel right. I'm not gonna necessarily because like a haunting doesn't have to be like things flying through the air or anything like that. It can be can be very, very different. So I would say that I could probably I would could feel the energy probably change. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. And it's definitely heavier. Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. It's dense energy. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. a lot of people will definitely know the place is haunted if they choose to acknowledge the vibe or like what's happening. So Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: throughout all of my years of learning about ghost hunting and getting, you know, more proficient and efficient, because that's my love language, Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: I learned about vertigo. So I learned very like early on that I have two kind of gifts. One is Lisa S.: same Lisa Wilson: I can hear you can hear like someone talking, but it's like far away like on a radio. Lisa S.: Okay. Lisa Wilson: I can hear it happening even though but it's very little and I can't hear what they're saying, but I definitely hear it. Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: And that is my first thing. My second is I get really bad vertigo. if I walk into your house and there are dead people there, or we're there's some sort of like thin veil between here Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: and there, whatever it is, I get so dizzy, I literally will fall over Lisa S.: Okay. So has that happened Lisa Wilson: Like I feel like Lisa S.: to you lately? Lisa Wilson: Yes, it happens to me all the time. Lisa S.: How you live with that, Lisa? Lisa Wilson: So I just usually leave those places. So we were in Charleston and we Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: went, we went into an antique store. I hate Lisa S.: Mm. Lisa Wilson: thrift shops and antique stores because people are touched attached to those things. They are. And I literally Lisa S.: Yes, yes, they are, they are. Lisa Wilson: turned a corner and it was like I was on a fun house floor, you know, when the floor starts moving, and I'm like, Lisa S.: man, boy. Lisa Wilson: Nope, I'm out. I can't handle it. Can't handle it. But Lisa S.: No. And and you know, there's so many people who who love that. Like I have some really good friends. I know you have friends, family, that love, love, love that. And it doesn't bother them at all. But I I have to, yeah, I do believe that energy attaches to things. So that's why I can't, I can't Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa S.: do that. Lisa Wilson: You keep your dead person stuff out of my house. Lisa S.: Yeah, it's okay, it's okay, you can have it. I'm Lisa Wilson: Like Lisa S.: good. Lisa Wilson: no interest in it whatsoever. Like people and again, it doesn't scare me. Lisa S.: Mm mm mm. That's why I can't go to estate sales. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: I couldn't go to an estate sale and buy some really cool vintage things because can't do it. Mm mm. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: Gives you the creepy Yeah. But it it doesn't scare me. Like I never get scared when it Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: happens. Lisa S.: Scares me. It would scare me. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: Just Doug's like, there's dead people here. Lisa's gonna go sit in the car. Lisa S.: Ha ha ha. Lisa Wilson: Okay, so this one is this one's for you. I wrote it just for you. Lisa S.: Okay. Okay. Lisa Wilson: So a neighbor passed away a few months ago. Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: You see her walking past her kitchen window today. What do you do? Lisa S.: I shut my window so I can't see it ever again. No Yeah. I'm scared. That would make me scared. I'd shut my blinds. I'd just hurry and shut Lisa Wilson: Wait, so it's gonna cla And Lisa S.: my blinds and then just not look outside again. Lisa, I there's no way I would be losing my ever loving mind. No. What would you do? Lisa Wilson: Okay, I have had this happen before. That's why I asked the question. Lisa S.: Like I'm getting the cold chills these at Lisa Wilson: So no, so listen, it all depends on what you think dead people are. So, Lisa S.: Ooh. Lisa Wilson: so if I see this happened to me and I saw Lisa S.: Okay. Lisa Wilson: it in my neighbor's house, his wife passed away. She had a heart attack. She was very young. It was very sudden, very sad. And Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: I remember I was looking out my kitchen window and I see. Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: her walk past her kitchen window. And I'm like, Lisa S.: F no F no. Lisa Wilson: so immediately I'm thinking this is just her energy. It's still in the it's still in the house. She probably, Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: she probably walked past that kitchen window a hundred times in her lifetime. And she's just like cycling. The energy Lisa S.: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: is just, it's like remnant energy. You know what I mean? Yeah, like it's like the walls Lisa S.: It's like muscle memory. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: have captured this this pattern that they walked. And that's the most Lisa S.: The loop. Lisa Wilson: Common haunting? It's the most common Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: thing is you see like a recording of the past and it's just going on repeat, right? So in Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. It's like a loop. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: this particular s situation, I knew I did not want to talk to the guy, the husband, because it was still so Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: fresh. I don't be like, hey, I think your wife might just be hanging out. Like, do you need to tell her it's time to go? And that Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: it's okay for her to go. Because he he literally went to the kitchen. They're watching a movie, went to the kitchen. He heard a weird noise and he walked back in the living room and she was gone. Like that fast. Lisa S.: boy, that's sad. People do leave a lot of times when you're not in the room. They wait for that very moment. Yeah. Lisa Wilson: Yeah, I mean and she was like in her early 30s. Like it was completely unexpected. So I talked to my neighbor lady, who is the neighborhood gossip. And Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: I was like, Hey, are there any haunted houses in the area? And Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: she was like, I can't count the number of haunted houses we have. And she's like, And I'm really worried about our neighbor because his wife passed so suddenly. And I was like, So Lisa S.: Mm. Lisa Wilson: listen. How do we let him know that it's okay if he talks to her and and says goodbye? And she's Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: like, You don't think he knows that? Lisa S.: I don't know. Lisa Wilson: Doug has a whole checklist of things that he has to do. Lisa S.: To make sure that you've crossed over. Lisa Wilson: Yeah, an entire checklist. If I was to call him in here right now and be like, hey, if I get possessed by a demon, what do you do? He knows. If I Lisa S.: Nice. Lisa Wilson: if I pass away, who are you gonna call? Chip Coffey He already knows these things, like from memory. Lisa S.: Nice, nice, nice. Lisa Wilson: but so we decided we were not gonna say anything to him. And Lisa S.: Okay. Lisa Wilson: I'll tell you I never saw it again. So either he he had talked to her and She passed or the energy just ran itself out. But I loved that question so much for you. Lisa S.: Yeah, I'm closing my blinds. Lisa Wilson: So listen, you guys, if you've ever heard talking at two AM when you're home alone and immediately Lisa S.: Mm. Lisa Wilson: thought, Is this my dead Aunt Ethel, or do I need to call a Catholic priest? This episode's for you. but you had an experience that was definitely not like a positive ghost experience. You actually Lisa S.: No Lisa Wilson: had to move out of a house. Lisa S.: Yes, really fast. I had to move out of a house really fast because it was so scary. Lisa Wilson: Will you Well like you're So will you take us back to the beginning and kind of walk me through your haunting? Lisa S.: Yeah, so I'll set the stage because this Lisa Wilson: Okay. Lisa S.: was the first house, and it was a house. older home, old home. The whole neighborhood was like created in the early 1900s. So all the houses were very mature, established homes from the early 1900s. It was the first house that I moved into after. I was divorced. So it was the first house that I was living in on my own with a very small child. Okay. So I had friends and family come over and we just really fixed this place up so cute. I just thought, my gosh, this is like a new me, fresh new start. Look how great. It's in a like super cool neighborhood, close to some really great schools. I was just like, I just hit the jackpot. Like, this is so great. it all kind of started out with me thinking it was my weird landlord. That's how it all started out. Things would be weird. Like I would always close my curtains before I would leave and I'd come home. Curtains would be. open or there's many times the side door I because I locked my doors a quadrillion times like I I'm a OCD go to all my doors and make sure that they're all locked. And I would come home and that door would be unlocked. And it'd be like what the heck? It's gotta be my landlord. So then sometimes you would hear like thuds. You'd hear a thud in the next room or downstairs in the basement. And those were always the scariest because the basement wasn't like it was not. like super comfy down there. Yeah, so I you'd go in the basement and be like, did something fall? And there was like an there was a garage that was attached. And so you go through like this living room downstairs in the basement to get to this garage. And the garage was super tiny, but it was like wet and like damp and like super creepy. And so I'd always be like, is there something in the garage? Cause that if somebody got into the garage, they could get right into my house too. So Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: I was always like, What the heck? So we put locks on everything, tried everything, okay? Then it just kept. Getting more frequent. Things would you'd be walking, you'd see something on the side of your eye, and you're like, Okay, what was that? And you'd look, nothing was there. Then you would see just like flashes. And you'd be like, Hey, did I just see that? And you'd talk yourself out of it. And it wasn't until my son started seeing Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa S.: everything that I really was like, okay, it's not just me. It's him too. Lisa Wilson: How did how did he tell you he was seeing things? Lisa S.: Like we would be watching TV or whatever, and he would say, Mom, there's three men at at the foot of the bed. I didn't see him at all. So that Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa S.: those were some types, those were some of the things that it was like, okay, now he's seeing something. And I've never saw a person, but I could hear things. And I would be like, did you hear this? And he would be like, yeah, I heard that. So we just kind of tried to like ignore it for the longest of time. We just tried to ignore it. And it wasn't until he actually had a seizure in I just remember he was getting ready to get in the bath or something when I just heard a thud and he was having a seizure. And he's never had one since. But I think I mean, clearly took him to the hospital and everything. I was so scared. I didn't know what was happening. And I really think that he was. So stress like there was so much stress. There was so much pressure. There was so much going on in that house at that time. That and we didn't feel good. we were sick. I was like, is there mold? Like it just felt like we Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa S.: were so sick. And I thought really, I was just like, I'm just run down. Like my life has totally been blown up. I'm just started a new job. he started a new school. He hates it. You know, I just thought. It's all this pressure, but honestly, it was affecting us physically, you could just tell. And it was when neither one of us wanted to go home that that's when I was like, okay, is it just me? Like, is it I mean, there's gotta be something to it. So I remember going to work. I asked my boss, I said, Could you have somebody from the church come over and bless the house? I don't really know what else to do. Sure. So immediately he gets somebody to come over. There's two men that came over, and they were talking to me about stuff. And then they kind of went into you should probably get like therapy. Like you probably should go see somebody. Like it was like either my child was making it up or I was making it up. And I was like, What Lisa Wilson: Always Lisa S.: the hell just happened? Like I thought you were here to help me. And they just like walked through the house and it wasn't like even a big deal. And I just remember after that, I was like, I'm gonna have to do something else. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa S.: So I had a family member come up because I was so scared. I was scared to go home. and she was walking up the stairs, and she was like pushed, like a Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa S.: physical push, like get out, like don't come in. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa S.: And she's very spiritual. She's an intuitive. And I remember she was like, there's something. Like it's not good. Like whatever it is, it's not good. when my son like he was walking around, you know, he had his iPad and he was walking around the house and just like randomly taking video of our place and just I mean he was bored. So he Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa S.: was Doing it upstairs, doing it downstairs. And then he went to show me like the video that he took, because he, you know, thought he was like a movie producer or something like that. He was so proud of everything, all of his angles Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa S.: and everything. he was like five. So let's just put that in perspective. Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa S.: And we're watching it back, and there were two people in the video, in the basement, downstairs by our washer and dryer. We're not there clearly. Or he didn't see it when he was doing the video, but clear as day in the video, just standing there. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa S.: I tried to sage. That did not help. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa S.: So I remember my son's babysitter came dropped him off at the house and she like she'd never been in our house before. And she walked in and she was like, Lisa, how are you living here? Like, what do you mean? I never talked to her about it. I didn't know that she was like kind of open to it stuff like that, you know. because you have to kind of be really careful who you talk to about it because people start treating you funny and they start treating Lisa Wilson: mhm, Lisa S.: you weird. Lisa Wilson: mhm Lisa S.: And so I was super embarrassed of like, like, is this really happening? And she walked in, she was like, You gotta get out of here. And I was like, What do you? I don't have anywhere to go. She's like, you need to find a place. You gotta get out of here. And whatever she felt, she was like, It's not good. It does not want you here. You need to get out. I was like, okay. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Mm. Lisa S.: So I immediately started looking for places. I found a place. I had a bunch of people come over and they packed me and moved me in one day. was out. Never looked back. It took a minute for me not to feel so scared. And my new place was great. Great. Had great energy. It was bright. It was light. But that's the thing about this place. It had so many windows. beautiful windows, all in every room, large windows, tall ceilings. Like it wasn't like it was like this cramped little tiny baby like dungeon. It was a cute place. But it was something not good. Something not good at all. And what's so funny is that like my son would never We would never he would never even want to drive down that street again. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: So I think for me, what it did energetically, it lowered my vibration all the time. Like I was always Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: tired, always sick, always feeling icky. My son was super stressed. Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa S.: And we didn't, It was like the worst like eight months. I think the worst. Just so terrible. Because again, you have that fear every day. Like, Am I gonna see something? Is something gonna happen? Is someone gonna get hurt? Lisa Wilson: Mm. Mm. Lisa S.: You know, and I mean, that was the other thing. I just didn't know what to do. And people can start to feel kind of crazy. Lisa Wilson: there's a couple of things that stood out immediately to me that Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: are important that everyone kind of gets. So number one, if you are in high emotional distress, meaning Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: you've just gotten out of a very emotional divorce. Anything like that. That is a that is an energy magnet. You are open you're open to the world. Yep. Lisa S.: We were just like, come to us. We just got a nuke bomb and we Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: don't know if we're coming or going. Yeah. Makes sense. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. And then number two, number two is there are a couple of very famous hauntings around kids. And the reason that it's kids is because kids again are this big ball of light in a very dark Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: world. And they have a tendency just to like, like if they're like high emotional time as well, or when they hit puberty as well. Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: It gives off like this radiation where it like everything comes for it, right? So you can't Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: you'll see haunting spike in those situations. But there's a million things that that we could have done. That's why I'm like, we gotta do a one-on-one after this and we'll we'll talk about that specifically. But that sounds awful. And I'm sorry that we were not super tight friends at that time because I would have gotten in my car with my box of salt and showed the fuck up. Lisa S.: I know you would have. I know you would have. I just didn't know what to do. And like also you have to think about the the neighborhood and the place that I live too. It just wasn't something that people talked about. Neighbors weren't Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: talking about it. People at my work wasn't talking about it. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: People inside the prominent religion sure wouldn't talk about it. And so I felt really Lisa Wilson: I wonder if they would Lisa S.: alone, you know? Lisa Wilson: So Lisa, I know that that was so scary for you, but like exciting for me. Lisa S.: I know he would have been like, I'll be there tomorrow. Lisa Wilson: 'Cause I'm like, yeah. You the fact that you tried, you know, a cleaner, you tried to sage, you tried to bring in religious people, all of those things are things that a lot of people like they sell sage at Whole Foods for a reason. You know, it's very mainstream now, and there's a real belief Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: behind it. I just have never believed that Sage did anything but Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: irritate if there was someone there. Like when I sage, Doug is like, that smells awful. I'm like, it's working. Lisa S.: Ha ha. Lisa Wilson: but that's why, like, if you ever call me to come to your house, I'm never gonna start with it's a demon. I'll tell you that shit right now. Lisa S.: Ha ha ha Lisa Wilson: Never, ever, ever. But so I had a ghost at work. Lisa S.: Ooooo Yeah Lisa Wilson: And I had many of them. So the building that we were in was built on top of one of the original slave trading ports on the East Lisa S.: Mm. Lisa Wilson: Coast. So built on a found a trauma foundation. Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: And then the building is built from limestone, which so limestone is an energy conductor, right? It's also got water in it, the water Lisa S.: Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: and the stone. And if you're like me, you believe that ghosts cannot cross water. It's just the fundamental belief that I've always had, so much so that when when I got COVID on the boat, Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: my first time I ever got COVID, I was so sick, I thought I was gonna die. And I was on a cruise. Of course I was on a cruise. Lisa S.: man. Lisa Wilson: And I remember yelling at Doug through the door, if I die on this boat, you must promise me to dock the boat. You've got to get it on land. Promise me you're Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: gonna get it on land. Now imagine walking by the room and you hear this woman yelling, You've gotta get the boat on land. Don't leave me out here with all these other dead boat ghosts. Like it could be it could be years. Like and I f Lisa S.: Lisa. Lisa Wilson: like I am I have a conviction. I truly believe it. The fact that the building is limestone is not only that it conducts energy, like like bounces off the walls, but also if there are actual ghosts there that are dead people walking around, they can't leave. They're kind of trapped. Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Mm. Lisa Wilson: So I was, I had not had any weird vibes or feelings Lisa S.: How you work there. Lisa Wilson: at all in this building. I was brand new. So it was like Sunday night. And it was like 10 o'clock at night and I'm working I remember I'm sitting there and I hear like a conversation. I hear like people talking, but it's far away. And I'm like There is nobody else here. Like there can't like who else would be here? So I get up and like kinda cause then now I'm worried a little bit for the first time like an idiot about my personal safety being in this building Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: late at night. No, but there's security downstairs, but it's a huge building. It's like it's like 10 stories. And you know, I don't know these security guards. Lisa S.: And it's a big building. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: I don't know that they've been vetted, you know? So I'm like, so I go and I walk around. like down in my area and the lights are on like eco meaning Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: some are on some are off so it's kind of like like little patches of shadow and I'm like walking around girl there is nobody here I'm the only one here and I'm like Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: okay like I I must have I have no idea. So I sit down and I start working away and again I hear yeah Lisa S.: You went back to your desk. Lisa Wilson: I had work to do and I I hear them again. I hear the talking again Lisa S.: No. Lisa Wilson: and I'm like, okay. Just just ignore it and it will go away. So I'm working, and then like literally, like this is all right, one right after the other. So it stops, and then I hear, and if you know what I'm talking about, if you've ever been in an office, you will know the sound of a big metal stapler when it crunches down on something. When you use it, it's like a punk. And Lisa S.: Yeah. Yep. Lisa Wilson: I'm like, it's like the cube next to me. And I'm like, so I get up, I Lisa S.: Lisa, no. Lisa Wilson: I get up and I stand on my chair because I'm looking all the way around this cube this huge, yeah, Lisa S.: So you can see on top of the cubicles. Lisa Wilson: the cube farm that is forever, and it's all dark with just the patches of light, you know, from the eco-lights. And Lisa S.: Mm mm. Lisa Wilson: I'm like, son of a bitch. Like, I know what that noise was, and there is nobody here. So I'm like, all right, listen. Like it is what it is. So then I sit back down and I start working. And then literally on the cube next to me, I hear. The with the metal cabinets open and slam closed. Lisa S.: No Lisa Wilson: And I was like, okay. So I roll my chair back. I'm like, listen, I know that you're here. I get it. I get that you're trying to get my attention. Yes, we're all gonna be friends someday. However, comma, I have work to do and I really have to focus. This is a new job. I need to do a good job. I'm really far behind. for the past hour because you guys have all been clickety-clackety bothering Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: me. Like, I just please just let me focus. I need to get this done. It's super important. And Lisa S.: Leave me alone. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: then, like, it was quiet for a minute, and then the light above me goes off and on, off and on. And I'm like, Lisa S.: Mm mm. Lisa Wilson: okay, you guys, seriously, I really have to focus. And true story, the whole lights go on and off in a wave. Like on and off in a wave, like not once. So Lisa S.: So I would have been out of there so freaking fast. Lisa Wilson: I popped up, booked it to the emergency exit stairs, run down, I'm flying down the stairs like the police are chasing me. Lisa S.: Why didn't you get in the elevator? Lisa Wilson: 'Cause the stairs were closer. And I just Lisa S.: Okay, okay, okay. Lisa Wilson: so I book it down, book it down, book it down, and I go down to the desk and I there's a security guy there and I was like, Okay he's like, What? And I'm like, Is it rats or is it ghosts? Lisa S.: Could have been Lisa Wilson: And without missing a beat, he's like, it was both. And I was like, what is up? And he's like, Are you on the fourth floor? I'm like, Yes, I am on the fourth floor. He's like, Lisa S.: Nooo. Lisa Wilson: I'm gonna walk you back up and I'm gonna walk around just to make sure, but I'm gonna tell you my story. And I'm like, okay. He goes, every time I tell new people the story, they laugh in my face. He's like, and then a couple of months later, they're like, Bro, I saw that. So his story. Lisa S.: No way. Lisa Wilson: I said we're walking up the stairs. I don't know why we're not taking the elevator, but he was so nice to me. And he was like, he was like, this doesn't scare you. I'm like, no, I'm the I'm the human being. Like, I'm fine. I said, it's Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: just distracting me. And it kind of freaked me out when the lights, he's they did the wave. I'm like, they did the wave. I'm like, cause that is, it's Lisa S.: No, so that's like a normal thing? Lisa Wilson: a thing that happens on the fourth floor. So he's like, I was brand new and I was walking, I was walk, I you have to walk the floors every half an hour on the hour. So one hour you do one, the next hour you do the other, and so on and so forth. He's like, for months, it's the worst job I've ever had because there's nothing Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: to do. He's like, There's nobody that works on the weekends and at night. He's like, it was very, very boring. And he was like, here I am. And I'm walking and I come out. He's like, I come out of the elevator and I look down the hall. And at the end of the hall, you get out and I look out. He goes, and I look down the end of the hallway, and there was a dude there that's got like a poodle hair, like meaning that was long in the back and short on the top, but curly, and he had a big mustache, and he's wearing like this weird checkered shirt and a turquoise suit. I'm like, like a polyester suit? He's like, like a polyester suit. And he was like, hey man, you're not supposed like, what are you doing up here? And the guy stops and he turns and he looks at me and he just turned and kept walking. He's like, bro, now we gotta dance. Cause like, I don't know Lisa S.: Now yeah, now I'm coming for ya. Lisa Wilson: what are you doing up here? And so, cause he didn't see that guy come in, you know, and he'd been there all night. So, and he didn't see him on his last rounds. And he was like, So I go booking it down the hallway and I turn right and it's into a wall. Lisa S.: No, I Lisa Wilson: There is nothing there. There was nowhere for that dude to go. And I Lisa S.: No way. Lisa Wilson: was like, so what did you do? He's like, I did exactly what you did. I went downstairs and was like, what the hell did I just see? And that's when I got the education that this building is full of ghosts. Full. Like full, full, full. And I was like, and I've had I had many, I had many experiences since then. But this is where I want to talk a little bit about like what is a ghost? Like what are ghosts? Are they are they dead people? Are they not? So Lisa S.: Lisa. Lisa Wilson: I don't think that they're like dead people walking around. if you walk the same way to the printer, to the fridge, and your desk every Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: day for 30 years, you're creating like an energy pattern. Right. Lisa S.: Like an imprint. Lisa Wilson: Like an imprint, right? I think another part of being haunted is someone like is a different, is it the same place, but in a different time, different timeline? Lisa S.: Right. Lisa Wilson: Same thing with the lights going on and off. I'm like, is this like Lisa S.: Right. Lisa Wilson: a bunch of frat bros like fucking with me in like a different timeline? Like, you know, like Lisa S.: Could be. Could be. Lisa Wilson: So that's, I mean, maybe, right? So that's why when when I hear people, whenever you watch any of the ghost shows or whenever you watch anything, and I'm not discounting these people who genuinely believe that they have some sort of evil entity in their home. Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: My first thing is it's probably not that. But Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: I I just I don't know that I want people to think that if their house is haunted, that it's gonna be the exorcist. You know what I'm saying? Lisa S.: No, and I don't think for our experience, I don't feel like it was like exorcist vibes, but they really Lisa Wilson: Mm. Mm. Lisa S.: didn't want us there. I can tell you that. I can honestly tell you that. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: So I don't know. I mean, I think I think there's so many different ways to look at it. And I think how Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa S.: I was raised is it would be someone's spirit that has passed on and maybe hasn't Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: crossed over and they're like Lisa Wilson: Mm-hmm. Lisa S.: in the in the in the middle, you know, they're they're Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: they haven't crossed over to the light or whatever, however you want to look at it. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa S.: that's how I was raised. So that's maybe the only thing I know how to look at it. pretty cool to hear your perspective because it'd be neat to look into because if you can kind of take it away that it's not some evil person that wants to push you down the stairs, I don't know if you would know exactly what to expect from a from a ghost. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: but I think it's cool that you were able to communicate Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: and communicate in a positive way. And like, Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: so with that, like, do you think that ghosts just stay here forever? Or do you think they do pass on to a different place? Lisa Wilson: I don't have the answer, if it's my opinion only, I think that most of the time it is an emotion that you are feeling or someone in your house is feeling that is so profound, like grief, even sometimes Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: extreme happiness, like I said, hormones, anger, you know. Lisa S.: Mm, mm. Lisa Wilson: Like it it can it can cause all sorts of different activity. So like I think that it depends. I don't have any issues with with ghosts or spirits or hauntings of any kind. I'm not afraid of it in any way. And I I just feel like it's it's something Lisa S.: Good for you Good you. Lisa Wilson: that we need to better kind of understand. And that's where I'll say my cautionary tale is this. So Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: if you hire a ghost hunter and they're like, it's a demon, fire that ghost hunter immediately. Because Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: anybody in the in the profession that is worth their weight is gonna start with a heavy investigation. So Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: they're not gonna start with it's a demon, like not Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: ever. but if that does happen and you find yourself in a real pickle, don't call anyone but a Catholic priest. They're the only ones that can technically really are trained or ordained if you believe in that kind of thing to help you. all right, so let's talk about our high five. So my ghost high five that I have, Lisa S.: Okay. Lisa Wilson: I love the idea that there's something out there that I don't understand. Lisa S.: Okay. Lisa Wilson: And as an atheist, the idea that we just turn into earth after after we die is very sad to me. And I Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: never really understood if energy doesn't go away, we're all energy. Our body is energy. So Lisa S.: Everything's energy. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: like we don't our energy doesn't die. So where does it go? What happens to it? And Lisa S.: Mm. Lisa Wilson: when I first learned that ghost hunting went mainstream, Ghost Hunters if you guys have not seen it, plumbers by day, ghost hunters by night. It is the best ghost hunting show season one to date of all time. but when I first started watching that and started like really understanding that there is legitimate scientific proof that there is something happening. Like if you've ever Lisa S.: Yeah. Lisa Wilson: if you've ever been in a house, and this happened to me not too long ago, and you're sitting downstairs and upstairs you hear a large piece of furniture move. Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. But nobody moved any furniture? Lisa Wilson: Like being dragged across a floor. Yes, correct. That's you gotta it's a haunting of some kind. And that's Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: the first time I ever saw that was on Ghost Hunters. And I just was like, I was so elated that Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: there was possibility of something else that I literally it Lisa S.: Mm. Lisa Wilson: it changed the pathway of my life. So like I think that that is a high five. Lisa S.: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I also think, Lisa, that you know, you have helped other people through this knowledge of it as well. Lisa Wilson: Mm, mm. Lisa S.: So it's not only become, it's not only a passion project for you, slash hobby on the side, Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: like saving the world by day, ghost hunting by night. but I think my high five in in all of in this conversation is that my son and I now have tools. At least I have, you know, we have tools that will help us in the future, that we don't have to feel so like alone, afraid, scared, like that feeling of not wanting to go to your home Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: and not wanting to fall asleep is terrifying. And we've met a lot of really cool people in the process because of it. Lisa Wilson: so your house is haunted. What are you gonna do? Lisa S.: George starts acting like an asshole, what do you do, Lisa? Lisa Wilson: So I tell him I just tell him to stop it. Knock it off. Sometimes he growl a little bit. Lisa S.: Ha ha ha. Lisa Wilson: Growl back. Like, you know, I mean, you're the you're the person. You're the human, right? So Lisa S.: You're the human. You're the human. Don't do what I did. Don't do what I did. Lisa Wilson: for you, if you were Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: to get the a new house and there's ghosts there, they gotta go. Like you're not gonna live harmoniously with Aunt Ethel. Lisa S.: Nope. Nope. Don't care. Don't care that you're nice. Don't care that you're kind. Don't care that you're just a little trickster and you're just playing little jokes. Don't care. Don't care. This I live Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: here and you need to live somewhere else. I just don't believe Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: in so no. That is a that's a flat out no. Mm mm. Lisa Wilson: I don't I don't care. Like because I fundamentally believe in my heart of hearts that if you ignore it, it will stop for Lisa S.: Mm. Lisa Wilson: whatever reason. Just really try as hard as you can to understand that ghosts are people too. They're just dead people. Like, Lisa S.: Ha ha Lisa Wilson: you know, if that's the case. Lisa S.: I mean, I would do things a lot different today. I mean, because of that situation, I think we've learned so much Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Lisa S.: about protecting your own personal space, your energy, protecting your home through energy and things like that. So Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa S.: I I've learned so much, and so has my son, that I think that things would be way different now, but I wouldn't try I wouldn't do what I did before. Because it didn't work. Lisa Wilson: What's the f what's the first thing you would do today if you felt like your house was haunted? Lisa S.: me and my son would work together just off of all the things that we've learned. Lisa Wilson: Mm. Lisa S.: in order to make sure that our energy field is is safe and protected, then our home, you know, things like that. I think I think we would go through those protection techniques that we've learned over time. and then I'd probably call you. And say, get your little tail up here. Let's let's work out some things. But first Lisa Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. Lisa S.: and foremost, I would do some protection on myself and my child first. And that's Lisa Wilson: So Lisa S.: we didn't have those skills back then. Lisa Wilson: Yeah. So people Lisa S.: To do that. Lisa Wilson: ask me all the time why you carry salt in my car. Because it's kind of weird that I have just a box of rock salt in my car. I also have a case of it in my garage. I carry it with me wherever I go. So here's why though. So if you're someone Lisa S.: Nice. Nice. Okay. Lisa Wilson: if you're someone who is a little freaked out, Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: okay, so if you cover your doorways and in front of your windows with a line of salt. Lisa S.: Okay. Lisa Wilson: So salt is purity and it's Lisa S.: Mm-hmm. Lisa Wilson: some if you get sea salt, it has a tiny amount of water in there. Lisa S.: Mm. Lisa Wilson: tiny, tiny, tiny amount. So you have an actual like if you were, you have a barrier. Lisa S.: Like barrier. Lisa Wilson: But if I was going to your house, or if let's say I was going somewhere, like when I do a ghost hunt, I always Lisa S.: Okay. Lisa Wilson: draw a line of salt around my car so Lisa S.: Okay. Lisa Wilson: that when I get into my car, whatever's there can't follow me home. So, you know, just make sure that you guys always have some salt on you Lisa S.: Get salt. Lisa Wilson: go get some salt. whatever the case may be. but just remember, you guys, that even if your house is haunted, you still have to stay hydrated, you still have to roll your shoulders back, you still have to unclench jaw, maybe Lisa S.: Mm. Lisa Wilson: don't sage everything, and go high-five somebody. Lisa S.: Yeah, and have a great week. Bye. Lisa Wilson: And have a great week, guys. Thanks so much. Bye.