Latest / The Action Catalyst / Master the Game Within, with Patrick McAndrew (Entrepreneurship, Leadership, Self-Improvement, Focus)

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Master the Game Within, with Patrick McAndrew (Entrepreneurship, Leadership, Self-Improvement, Focus) · The Action Catalyst

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Adam Outland: Today's guest is Patrick McAndrew, a seasoned
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entrepreneur and high performance coach and the
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founder and CEO of Hara, an exclusive membership community
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and network for the top 1% of entrepreneurs and business
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leaders. Patrick has a wealth of experience that merges cutting
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edge technology with deep human insight. Then we're excited to
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talk to him. Well, Patrick, so excited to chat with you today.
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You're coaching and providing a lot of value to, you say that
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kind of the 1% of the 1% in business. So if I somehow
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stumbled upon you in secondary school and I said, Patrick, what
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do you what do you want to be when you grow up? What would a
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secondary school Patrick have shared?
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Patrick McAndrew: I think at that time it was, it depends. If
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it was like a beginning of secondary school. I think I
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wanted to be an actor. If it was the middle of the time in
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secondary school, I wanted to be I wanted to have a talk show. I
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wanted to host a talk show.
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Adam Outland: Were you already like planning and thinking of
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coming to the states, where you want to build a career in
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Ireland, or what was that even floating through your mind at
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that time?
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Patrick McAndrew: Well, I always, I always was very taken
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by the US and this New York in particular, where I lived for
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five years, and it was sort of hung over my head. But if you do
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well enough on these exams, Patrick, my mom would say,
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taking a trip to New York. But that trip to New York never
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manifested. The first time I came to the States, I think I
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was maybe 19, and we came on a family trip, and we went to
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Clearwater Beach for Christmas. And as you can imagine, the
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United States was New York in my mind, like that was the country
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that there was no sense or curiosity about the others. And
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I remember driving from Tampa to Clearwater, and I had never seen
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things like strip malls, and they're the most foreign, alien
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looking thing ever, like seeing Dunkin Donuts and Wendy's and
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Burger King, but all in these, just sort of these, these
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parallel units alongside a road. And I remember thinking, This
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doesn't look like the impression that I had of this country at
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all. So I have to start to come to terms to realize that there,
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there are different parts of this country and and they all
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hold different characters.
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Adam Outland: Yeah, yeah, a lot, a lot of drywall pre
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fabrication, not a lot of stone cathedrals that were modernized.
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Patrick McAndrew: Indeed. Yeah.
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Adam Outland: Walk me through a little bit of your time at
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Ireland after that, I mean going to school, developing what were
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things that you started to gravitate to as you, as you
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matured and aged up, and how did that influence the direction you
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were headed?
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Patrick McAndrew: I think there's always just been a
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tendency just to follow curiosities. So when I was in
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college, I studied law, but I had a radio show. I also worked
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in the regional radio station as a sound engineer. So I would be
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there during the live shows, and I would be turning on the the
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ads and fading in the music and all that stuff and meeting the
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guests. And there was something there. There was something about
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conversing and meeting people. I grew up in a home where there
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was constantly people coming through, whether it was people
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traveling from around the world coming to stay with us, or
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eccentric characters that my mom had come across, or she had an
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employment agency for a large number of years. The nurses that
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would be coming into Ireland, they would stay with us for a
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few days before they would go to the nursing home at the hospital
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where they were going to work. So we would sort of like take
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care of them, because they would be homesick and get them
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settled. She also had a jewelry business where she made bespoke
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engagement rings for couples. So there was a room in the house
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where they would come in and they would be presented. They
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would they would come in to design the engagement ring they
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wanted. And then my mom would take the design and go to
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Antwerp and get it made. And then they would come back and
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she would have a bottle of champagne, and we would see the
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joy, and we would maybe have a meal with them and talk with
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them. You know that that sort of nature, that could very
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convivial nature, was was very normal in my household growing
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up. So there was always different cultures, different
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characters. And I growing up as a young kid, growing up, grew up
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in London before I moved to Ireland, and for a number of
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years. And during that time in London, I actually lived in a
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gallery. So my parents had had rented the flat that they had in
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London and then took out a lease on this gallery to manage the
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expenses of it all. They built drywall, and they built rooms
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within the gallery which were never there was just a big open
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space, and they built like a little apartment and a home at
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the back. And when I would leave my bedroom, I would walk out
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onto the gallery. So when I would come home from school, I
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would I would enter in through a gallery to get to my room. And
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when I was there, and my mom was she didn't really have many
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staff. So if there was a lot of people coming through as a five
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year old or a six year old, it was my role to to guide them
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around and show them the pieces of glass and the pieces of art
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and. And keep them entertained for a few minutes until my mom
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could speak to them. So all of that, I think, the the way of
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observing and engaging with people had sort of been inherent
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to to my my lived experience. We also had the most travel man in
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the world stay with us for a few days. I don't know if he still
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holds that title, but he did at that time. He had been traveling
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for 24 years, and Ireland was the last country on his world
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tour. So I came home from school one day and my mom was at the
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kitchen table chatting with this guy, and she said, this is Mike
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Patrick. I think I was telling you about him. He's the most
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traveled man in the world. I heard him on the radio three
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days ago. I sent a text into the station and said, if you're
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coming to Galway and you need somewhere to say, just let me
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know. And he called her up on the phone. He said, Hey, is this
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Julia? And she said, Yeah. He said, It's Mike. I've just
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arrived into Galway bus station. Is that offer still standing to
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stay with you for a few days? And she said, absolutely. So we
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got to hang out with him for three or four days. And he had
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been in Somalia. He had been in Mogadishu. He was one of the
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first tourists there in a very long time. He was in the town
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across he had not very far away from in Iraq, where Osama bin
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Laden had been captured. He traveled through Afghanistan. He
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had been all over, you know, but places that you rarely hear
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about. He was a quirky character, for sure, but it was
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interesting conversations with him.
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Adam Outland: I can only imagine, and what a cool
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exposure that you got to diversity through your own home
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with all these people coming through. So fast forward from
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this, you've become a sought after speaker. What led to that
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type of work exactly?
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Patrick McAndrew: Well it started out with speed reading.
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So I was teaching speed reading memorization workshops around
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the country. I was going into schools and colleges and
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companies like Bessemer trust, Northern Trust, quite a few
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hedge funds and investment banks, helping these people
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improve how they processed and retained information. And that
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was a very interesting experience, because I realized,
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you know, if you want to pay, I don't know what is it? It's
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somewhere in the region, like 160 or 180,000 for for an MBA at
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Columbia University, I got to go in and see those people in that
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room. Amazing networking, amazing conceptual frameworks
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and models and ways of thinking about business. But so much of
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business is about your own internal game. You know, the
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actual dynamics of business are not that difficult. There are
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problems which need to be solved Absolutely, and problems keep
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arising. But what's the challenge there? Well, the
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inherent challenge is, is the capacity to sustain change and
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the capacity to be malleable and adaptive. I think that's that's
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what our unique capacity as human beings are. Is this
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capacity to mutate, to be one way and then to recognize that
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the environment has changed, I must mutate into another way,
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but yet I can retain my true essence. I don't lose myself
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under the conditions of the environment. I maintain myself,
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but I'm not bound to this identity. I'm good at this or I
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like this, so therefore I'm only going to try and find a business
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that operates on the fundamentals of me being very
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good at doing stuff on a computer, but I don't want to
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interact with people in person. Well, I've just cut off so much
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opportunity to myself. So maybe if I can develop certain develop
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certain qualities of how I engage with others, much more
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will show for me. So I saw in all of these environments that I
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went into that these people are learning a lot of information,
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but it's not taking them so far because they're not learning
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about themselves. In fact, they're neglecting themselves.
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They're only trying to develop this 10% area which it feels
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like it's directly relevant to business, but there's this other
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90% which determines your clarity, your conviction, your
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essence, your value, your sense of self worth. And if you're
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clear on all of that, you can achieve a whole lot more, and
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you can feel content, and you can feel like your whole life is
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is in alignment. It doesn't feel like it's so fragmented. So I
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began on that journey by teaching people about focus,
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because that was the thing. Through my exposure to different
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environments of teaching speed reading, I realized, wow, okay,
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these people that I'm meeting, they're very driven. They're not
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lacking motivation. Yet, companies are spending, you
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know, 1000s, 10s of 1000s every conference for a motivational
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speaker that people don't need motivation. They've plenty.
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They've plenty drive. What they lack is a pragmatic sense of how
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to organize themselves. They're missing internal structure. It's
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pretty chaotic in there. So the first place that I approached
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was focus, because I thought that people needed help focus,
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which they did. But then over years and years of doing that,
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working with Pacific Life, Lincoln, financial, Morgan,
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Stanley, all these companies, I realized, okay, I can teach you
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how to focus, and I can make you very good at doing the tasks
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efficiently, but there's a deeper problem there. There's a
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much deeper problem, and it's your capacity to regulate
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yourself. It's your capacity to actually regulate and relate to
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yourself, and that's actually more of the foundational layer
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that causes a lot of the problems, leadership problems,
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strategic problems. There's a company I got called in to work
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with last November. They had 26 primary initiatives.
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Adam Outland: That word primary, and 26 initiatives...
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Patrick McAndrew: And 26. Yeah, it's not, it's not all aligning.
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But where is that coming from? That's not coming from the fact
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that these people aren't intelligent enough. It's
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actually coming from more of a place that their whole emotional
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state is so scattered and so fragmented because they don't
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feel safe and secure in their work. They're unsure about this
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industry. It's going through such rapid change, like many
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are, so a lot of the problems that are appearing across the
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company is a totality in the individuals within it, much more
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about an internal thing that's happening. And a lot of my work
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previously was building fundamental qualities in people
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so that they could improve their reading and their memory and
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their focus, so that they could actually start to take action.
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But now I'm sort of interested in working with people who have
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no issue taking action, who have no issue getting things done,
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but yet, there's a barrier. There's some sort of an internal
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block that's confusing. Either they have developed far beyond
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the business and the business is not catching up to them, so it
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feels like it's out of alignment. Or the business has
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developed far beyond them, and they've been pouring so much
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into the business, but as an individual, they're still quite
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underdeveloped in comparison to the demands of the business. So
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how do we calibrate these two and if we do, means that things
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move a lot more smoothly, and they progress much more in the
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right direction.
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Adam Outland: My experience with a lot of these types of
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individuals who found a significant amount of in a
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comparative success in their their business or their
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practice, to be at the level I think we're talking about is
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that they have to have a lot of self confidence in specifically
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what they're doing, meaning that they've developed somewhat of a
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ego. And I don't mean they're all egoists, that they are
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dominated by it, but I find that a lot of them have to have
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gotten what they had. They have to have a certain amount of self
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worth and self value that they've crested over to
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accomplish things of a magnitude. And with that
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sometimes comes some defensiveness around change, or
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a defensiveness of them that maybe not verbalizing this, but
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I'm imagined you've maybe heard at some point, Patrick, you
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don't you don't know my business. You don't know what
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we're doing. So how do you how do you overcome that?
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Patrick McAndrew: I don't see a lot of self confidence. I see a
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huge amount of fear. I see a lot of people who where their fuel
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source is coming from, growing up in poverty, and they never
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want to be in that environment again, or feeling maybe once
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again poverty, but feeling trapped, feeling like they
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didn't have choice. So what they want is they want money that's
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going to give them the freedom to choose. There was a gentleman
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that I spoke with not so long ago, and I asked him, if you
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were to kind of look outside of yourself, what do you orbit? And
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for this gentleman, it was money and power. He was able to say it
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very quickly that that's what it was. He was very accomplished,
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but he was extremely exhausted, but he couldn't seem to stop his
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relentless pursuit of whatever he seemed to be pursuing. And it
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was more money and more power. Now, as our conversation
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progressed, at the root of it, he just wanted some love and
12:38
self acceptance. It this is not bad. This is, this is, this is
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fine. It's, it's part of the development of the human being
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and of the psyche. We come from a place of pain, and we try to
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transmute that pain into something that will take us
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forward, because we don't want it to hold us back. So maybe we
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develop another character. We develop this man or this woman
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who's able to amass money or power, and now people are drawn
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to us because of the money and the power or the knowledge or
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the capacity to get things done or to help things in the
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community. And now people value you and see you for these
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qualities and these capacities. But underneath that, as soon as
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that is taken away the business or taking action every day,
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there's a huge amount of insecurity. There's a huge
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amount of insecurity, and that causes a huge amount of pain and
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limitation on the business that ends up getting created because
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the ego and the identity of the person who found that it is so
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interwoven with the actions or what that business reflects
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about them that they're trying to keep it in a way that keeps
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their identity the way they want it to be. So what ends up
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happening is that our identity gets reduced to our biography.
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You know, you you got a biography on me. People at the
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beginning of the show heard about me. I'm not that. I'm not
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that. If I were to describe myself as that, it would feel
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like it's another person. But yet, we need certain terms and
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containers to explain it. So you're a coach, okay, great. Now
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I get a sense of who you are, but you're so much more than
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that. You're bringing your whole lived experience into it. So
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it's fine to have these sort of monikers of who we are as
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people, because we need that to make allow people to have a
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reference point of who we are and what we do. But my days,
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it's very dangerous if you think that you are, that if you allow
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your identity become wrapped up in that, you become very weak.
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And I, from what I see, there's, there's very little self
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confidence, there's a lot of survival, even no matter how
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many millions you have in the bank. And I It doesn't have to
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be that way.
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Adam Outland: Yeah, interesting.
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Patrick McAndrew: And I would say, from my observation, I
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would say confidence is a sort of emergent thing. You don't
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craft confidence. Confidence sort of emerges and it merges
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through your view of yourself, and the evidence that this, this
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view of yourself, is being reinforced. So you can also be
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very confident that you can't do something you know you it's it's
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a certainty. It's a certainty of something. It's a certainty of
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your capabilities and your powers, which can be that it's a
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certainty that you can move towards something, or it's
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equally a certainty that you cannot. And. Because it's been
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evidenced so many times before. So my interest more so is
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because there's many environments that I go into with
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very little confidence that I can do it, but I have confidence
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that I can find a way. I have confidence that I'll be able to
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be in the the uncertainty or the discomfort of it, and I'll move
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through it, because that's something that I have evidence
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of, I'm much more interested in, I suppose, expanding people's
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sense of value and worth beyond just their actions. So for
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example, something that we're going to be launching relatively
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soon with Hara, which I now realize is so needed and so
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important is so many of the companies that I speak to,
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whether it's the CEO or it's an intern, are feeling immensely
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overwhelmed. Now, this overwhelm is coming because of the the
15:49
amount of information and the amount of things that we feel
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that we should know, the amount of communication. There was one
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gentleman that I spoke with in Dallas at a conference couple of
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weeks ago, and he told me he gets about 480 emails a day like
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that's such an insane quantity that's that's beyond a full time
16:04
job just filtering through that every day. But why does this
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happen? Why are these tools that were meant to liberate us and
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free us through the work that was most important? Why are they
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becoming the things that are holding everybody back? Because
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it's, it's a total distraction. Now, you could say it's in the
16:20
design, and there's a truth to that. There's a design of a
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desire for engagement. That's how these products measure their
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value, not how little time you spend on them, but how much time
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you spend on them, how much information flows through them.
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But I don't think it's enough to just place the blame on the
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product and the tool. There's something deeper that's
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happening here, and it's it's actually much more related to a
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sense of social security. And I've been watching this, and
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it's only become clear to me very much. So in the last five
16:45
or six months, if we just look at distributed teams, for
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example, where you've got, let's just say, a couple of people in
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Omaha, Nebraska, there's a company that I work with. I have
16:54
a few people there, and then you have others which are dotted
16:56
around the country, but their boss and their direct report is
16:59
there in Omaha, and they get to meet up with each other two or
17:02
three, maybe four times a year at conferences. Sometimes they
17:04
get 15, 20 minutes. If it's 20 minutes, 25 minutes as a one on
17:08
one chat. That feels like it's enormous, but most the time it's
17:11
in a group setting, so the conversation is more about the
17:13
collective like, what are we all talking about? The person that
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I'm reporting to doesn't really know me, doesn't really know my
17:18
true character. They see the analytics of what I do based on
17:22
the metrics of what comes in, but as a person who I am, as
17:25
human being, they don't know me because they haven't had much
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time with me. I've given leadership teams this this
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challenge to spend 45 minutes with their direct reports just
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on one call, and I've given them questions to ask which are much
17:36
more deep about like who they really are as human beings. And
17:39
they learn so much about them and realize that their
17:41
assumptions of what motivated and drove them is so different
17:44
to what it was. So that's a norm that people are not really
17:46
getting to see each other. Now, if I'm in New Mexico and my
17:49
direct report is in Omaha, Nebraska, I see him or her three
17:52
or four times a year. My promotion, how much more I'm
17:55
going to earn next year, or maintaining my job, is dependent
17:58
on their view of me, how they see me. So how can I prove
18:01
myself? I make sure I do I succeed as much as I can in the
18:05
realm of the metrics, and I also make sure that I am as
18:08
responsive as possible in my emails and my communication and
18:12
showing that I'm on, because by showing that I'm on and that I'm
18:16
hyper responsive, it's a display in the best way possible that
18:19
I'm committed and that I'm a worthy human being, and that's
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what's happening more and more, is that we're not engaging
18:24
deeply with each other. So the context of how much we
18:27
understand of each other is very low. So we invest a lot more of
18:30
our energy into those low context transmissions of
18:33
communication, which creates this very fragmented and
18:37
distracted state. Because to be not distracted and fragmented is
18:40
to choose for yourself, is to choose where you're going to
18:42
direct your energy, where you see that there's things
18:45
happening outside. But you downgrade their importance,
18:47
because you upgrade the importance of what you want to
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do and what you see is important. But for the vast
18:52
majority of people I meet, they've completely downgraded to
18:55
level zero their importance of what they want and how they want
18:58
to direct their lives or their business or their day, and they
19:01
completely upgrade the importance of everything that's
19:04
happening around them, that's coming in because they don't
19:06
want to miss a thing, because if they do, it might threaten their
19:09
job. It might threaten their sense of how they're perceived
19:11
by their boss. And if that's not met and if that's not worked on,
19:16
I can offer as much content and information about how the brain
19:18
works and how to organize yourself, but it won't make a
19:20
difference, because the human beings are in a very survivalist
19:23
very survivalistic state, and that's driving the show, not the
19:25
rational mind, but a very, very emotional, unsure, unsecure
19:30
internal state.
19:31
Adam Outland: Reminds me of a book called Tribal Leadership. I
19:34
don't know if you've read this, but I think you'd like it.
19:36
There's, you know, a category of stages that the Stanford
19:40
professor observed in different culture and communities, the
19:44
lowest level was like the kind you see in prisons, which is
19:47
like defined by the affirmation, My life sucks. That was the way
19:53
they had to write it and put it. They didn't see the way out. And
19:55
then the second tier, it becomes a little bit less, My life
19:59
sucks, and it. They can see others have it great. It's My
20:02
Life sucks, but other people have it great. There's someone
20:04
near them that's succeeding, probably a manager or a leader.
20:07
And then level three is I'm great, but you're not. And this
20:11
is prolific in the corporate world, lawyers, doctors and in
20:15
order to be the greatest, they can't have competition in their
20:19
office, right? It's always proving it's a survivalist. And
20:22
then level four is we are great, and Level Five is Life is great.
20:26
And there are very few companies that operate at that level. But
20:28
just kind of connecting these dots in my head, as I hear you
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talk, it's, it's a little bit of that, am I hearing this
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somewhat, right?
20:34
Patrick McAndrew: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Because
20:37
I think, I think we've been given these incredible tools,
20:39
which are there to support us, but they're there to support the
20:43
what we have to actually develop us so that we can develop
20:46
internally. Whereas I think in many circumstances, there's a
20:48
regression taking place where we're completely divorcing
20:53
ourselves or neglecting how we need to develop internally to
20:56
meet the demands of what's being presented to us externally, and
21:00
we're just sort of playing the victim to how life is playing
21:03
out around us and through Hara, the work that I'm doing is, I'm
21:07
fundamentally trying to show people, you have a huge amount
21:09
of agency here, but you're, you're the way that you live
21:13
your life is what's shaping this. If you feel like there's
21:15
no space or time for that, you'll continue to suffer, and
21:19
that's the truth, because you'll, you'll find that your
21:21
attention is constantly going out. It's constantly about
21:24
what's happening outside of you, whereas what we give people our
21:27
practices and ways to develop themselves internally, because
21:30
we need that every time, our whole range of evolution as we
21:35
as we develop as the human species, is dependent on changes
21:38
to the external environment, changes the temperature, changes
21:42
to food, changes to threats, changes towards opportunities.
21:47
We're being given an immense amount of comfort, and so much
21:49
of the products that are being designed are around this are
21:52
more primal and primitive aspects of us. So yeah, there's,
21:55
there's definitely a lot that's happening here in recognizing
21:58
that the world is changing around us. So how are we
22:01
changing internally to rise from top, as opposed to rising to the
22:06
top thinking or recognizing that we have so many of these
22:08
qualities in us that are incredible.
22:11
Adam Outland: Oh, yeah, one of the things that you talk about
22:13
is how to break the cycle of distraction. What does that look
22:16
like in motion when you're working with someone?
22:18
Patrick McAndrew: Well, are there places that your attention
22:21
is often getting brought to that you know is not serving you, yet
22:25
it keeps happening, but the but then there's a reflective
22:28
tendency right to observe and say, Wow, that was not where I
22:31
needed to spend my time, that that was not useful to me. And
22:36
so there's different states of mind that arise. So what's the
22:39
observation or the thing that you notice in yourself
22:42
afterwards, the things that are sort of you keep going towards,
22:45
and you spend a lot of time. So if we take a bit more of an
22:48
objective perspective, so you're looking at yourself from an
22:50
outside body, because you're in it at the moment, and you're
22:52
sort of like you're analyzing and reasoning at the same time.
22:56
So if we can be just more objective, so the analysis and
22:59
the reasoning is separate, where is your attention going? Where
23:02
it's being wasteful. If we just look at it hard and like that,
23:06
hard and fast. Because once again, I'm not of the opinion
23:09
that you need to be this sense of being productive, which is
23:13
bringing utility to every moment. You're building a
23:16
business and you're running a business, you need clarity of
23:18
mind thinking. I chatted with a guy a couple of months ago, he
23:22
was joining Hara, and he was saying to me, you know, I want
23:24
to map out a five year plan. If I could only find four hours to
23:28
just sit down and map out a five year plan. I know how crazy that
23:30
sounds. And I said, Is it crazy that you're mapping out a five
23:33
year plan, or is it crazy that you think that you need four
23:37
hours to map out a five year plan? He said, It's crazy that I
23:39
think I need four hours I should be able to do it unless so
23:42
there's this constant sense that I should be able to condense and
23:44
do things very quickly, when the reality is my days. If you're
23:47
going to think about a five year plan, which I personally feel is
23:50
maybe it's a five year vision, but it's hard to implement a
23:53
plan. You need more than four hours for that. I think it
23:57
should. It should take a lot of time and self reflection. So
24:00
from an objective view, where is your attention going? That feels
24:04
as though it's it's wasteful, and the loop of distraction is
24:08
the constant pattern of the mind. It's not. It's just the
24:11
constant stay, you know, in the evening, watching TV, but also
24:15
being on our phone, and then at dinner table, then at the dinner
24:19
table, watching something or there, but your mind is being
24:22
taken elsewhere. So whether we appreciate it or not, we might
24:26
consider that we're training or we're working out when we go to
24:29
the gym and we do specific things of our body, but when it
24:32
comes to our character and our state of mind, we're constantly
24:36
developing and shaping ourselves to better or worse if you're
24:40
running a business and if you're doing something for yourself,
24:43
it's your clarity and your vision that shapes everything.
24:47
Because I think you know as well as I do, when the value system
24:52
of the business, or as a way to generate interest, starts going
24:54
through the lens of social media and posts and engagement,
24:58
suddenly it can sort of. Start to get warped, that the
25:01
opportunity comes from the degree of engagement. The
25:04
opportunity comes from responding to what's happening
25:06
in that space. But you know, I have a friend who will share the
25:10
dark truth, which is he runs a business around productivity. He
25:14
wanted to build more leads. He spent a day a year posting, and
25:18
had a team of freelancers helping him. Built up his
25:20
Instagram to 360,000 followers. The Instagram page is solely
25:24
about this topic of productivity, running a digital
25:26
marketing agency. Zero point point zero. 6% of his followers
25:33
converted to actually purchasing his product. Wow. So it can
25:36
become a trap in and of itself, where now I've lost my the
25:40
direction the vision has become skewed. I'm I just saw that
25:44
there was a lot of engagement on the post, so maybe we need to
25:46
double down in more of those posts. And now we're getting
25:48
more followers, and now we're growing the engagement. But is
25:51
that tethered to the ultimate vision of the business? I from
25:55
that? I mean, it's not, unless your vision is to become a
25:57
content creator. You know, when you're a small business owner,
25:59
you can get caught in that loop.
26:01
Adam Outland: What's your personal practice to remain
26:04
clear? Because, as I think we both agree, it's sometimes it's
26:06
easy to see than others, it's harder even for us to apply some
26:09
of this thinking to ourselves at times, because it gets cloudy.
26:12
Patrick McAndrew: Well, a practice which has changed a lot
26:15
of things is, I think I used to place too much emphasis on the
26:20
market. So a lot of the businesses that I built in the
26:23
past, or even the talks that I gave, was my observation of what
26:26
the market needed. But in that process, you can feel like you
26:30
lose yourself, because you start, you start just completely
26:34
adjusting to the needs and the expectations of the market, and
26:38
inherently, you end up that's it. That's That's a fast track
26:40
to lose your own sense of value and worth. In the last year or
26:43
year and a half, I've changed that. Where it's a it's a dance
26:47
between the two. It's what is alive in me, in what I'm seeing,
26:51
in what I want to pursue, and what are the needs in the
26:54
market. And how can I find a way to connect the two together? So
26:58
there will be people in that space who will not be ready to
27:01
receive it, and there will be moments where what I articulate
27:04
is not clear enough for what the market is looking for, and that
27:07
creates this constant observation loop of myself and
27:10
the market. So then becomes the practice of my own observation
27:14
that I have to engage with.
27:16
Adam Outland: Having done a lot of these transformative things
27:18
yourself, put them in motion for clients, what advice would you
27:21
give yourself many years ago? What do you think that young
27:24
version of yourself could use?
27:26
Patrick McAndrew: I think it would be to acknowledge
27:28
uniqueness, not to be afraid of that, and then don't just try
27:33
and explore that as a little thing on the side. Go right
27:35
after it, go right after your appetite. That's, that's what
27:39
I've done as an adult. And it's, it's, and I didn't do that much.
27:42
I did it as a kid, but I also had this fear of the group and
27:45
wanting to fit in with everybody else. And I think as a kid, I
27:49
would have, or if I was to meet that guy, I would have told him,
27:52
You see things a little bit differently, and sometimes it
27:54
feels like you don't want to, because you want to see it the
27:56
way everybody else does, because it can feel threatening to feel
27:59
that that difference. But go there, just go there and let go
28:03
of that judgment.
28:04
Adam Outland: What a great note to end on. Great conversation,
28:06
Patrick, really enjoyed it.
28:08
Patrick McAndrew: Thank you, Adam, it's really been a joy to
28:09
speak with you. You were a great, great host, great
28:11
questions. All the best.