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When Parents Become Bullys · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. Oh my goodness.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Every now and again stuff hits the news that means
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: we have to do one of these. It's this week
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: in Parenting. I love doing that. It makes me so happy.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: How are you looking at.
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: Me like that?
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Even Sky News has covered this. So there's a TikTok
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: video that's gone viral where a little girl has been bullying, bullying,
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: certainly been unkind of kids at school. She's going to
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: be suspended. Dad has to go to the school and
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: pick her up. And well, we're going to tell you
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: what happened and why this went viral right after this.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Stay with us. Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast,
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: where you get real parenting solutions every single day. This
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Kylie Coursen. The parents have six kids, and today we
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: have parenting solutions for you up the wazoo. That's what
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: my dad used to say. I don't know wazoo is,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and I got why you'd want to go up the wazoo.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: But we've got solutions everywhere. Kylie, let me set the scene.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: It's on TikTok can I just say this out loud,
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Please don't try to get your parenting advice from random
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: people on social media, Like, if you want to be
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: a good parent, the last place you want to go
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: is TikTok listening to random's who are struggling with their
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: parenting and getting it so wrong. So anyway, now that
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: I've said that, oh my goodness, it drives me crazy.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: All of our major news outlets in the last week
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: have reported on an American dad who was called into
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: the school because his daughter had been bullying, quote unquote bullying,
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: certainly being mean to kids in her school so much
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: so she was so mean that twice in one day
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: people put hands on her to hurt her because she
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: was being so unkind. This is messy at every level.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: He goes into the school and the I guess it's
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: the school principle or somebody who's in charge, starts explaining
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: what's going on kids before.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it says two days but today, okay, yeah,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: this semester she's given you ever seen that movie Mean
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Girlshan Regina George That day, that's what she's acting like,
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: walking around bullying people, calling out their names.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Talking about their parents, talking about their clothes or smell,
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: just get anything to provoke these kids. So today uh
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: as a little Hispanic boy in hair class. She kept
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: getting in stay talking about so that's why Trump this
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: and something like that.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: It's really interesting because at the start of the clip
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: you've got this kid saying, what are you doing here?
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: And I don't even know why you're here, which I'm
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: not sure he's honest.
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Come on, it's okay, it don't matter.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Come on, let's go.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: What did I even do? The dad interrupts the flow
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: of the video so that he can give his own commentary,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: whoa whoa.
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: Whoa na na na. No. I know my child, and
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: I know up until this point you ain't said nothing.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: That was a lie. I gotta do better. I'm trying
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: to train her up the right way.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: This is kind of difficult.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: We still figure it it out. But now, wouldn't it
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: hell my baby say about Trump to a Hispanic like,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: I don't know nothing about that?
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: And then, to make a long story short, he takes
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: his daughter over to grandma's house because he doesn't know
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: what to do, and Grandma takes kiddo down to the
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: police station so that the police station can scare the
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: living heck out of this kid so that this child
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: will never put you again.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: I know Kinsey walked in there, it turned around, looked
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: at me like, Daddy, you really gonna let her do
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: this to me? It is clearly I ain't doing enough.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: Carly, there is so much here. Where do you want
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: to start?
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: I just want to say that, while I don't necessarily
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: agree with his methods, it is so refreshing to see
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: a parent who actually recognizes that their child is not perfect,
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: and they're actually willing to take responsibility for their role
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: in helping children to learn appropriate behavior.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to tell you right now that that is,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: in my mind, the only positive in this entire thing.
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: I agree, but I just as we have dealt with
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: so many challenges over the years as our children have
• 4:28
  Speaker 4: navigated tricky relationships, I don't think I have ever met
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: a parent who's been willing to sit in an uncomfortable
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: place and acknowledge that their child may not have acted
• 4:41
  Speaker 4: in the best way.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, So we call it using your are
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: or being in bed, So using your are ownership, accountability
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: and responsibility, being in bed blame, excuse and denial, and
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: the amount.
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: Of times I have heard someone say, well, what did
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: your child do to provoke?
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Right, exactly, I can't. My child can't be fully responsible this.
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: So I understand that we're going to go on totally
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: different road, but I needed to say that because I
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: just feel like we just get so caught up in
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: wanting our children to be good people, and we think
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: that if they're not good people, then it is a
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: slight against us.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: From that point on, everything is wrong. Yes, everything's wrong,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: which is frustrating because the comments and the fact that
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: this is blown up is because the comments essentially are
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: everybody and their dog being on social media and on
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the news site saying, God on this, dad, he nailed it.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: We need more parents doing this. No, no, we don't.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: And I know you're laughing and it's kind of funny,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: but it's not. It's not. It's really bad. So where
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: do we start. Number One, this child is you've seen
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: the clip? How old directed the child is?
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: Eight? Nine?
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: Mine?
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, something like that. Yeah, That's where I'm going. I
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: don't think I don't think she's any older than that,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: But eight or nine? Can kids be mean and even bully?
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: One hundred percent? Yes? Should we take responsibility as parents
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: to teach our children the right thing to do. One
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: hundred percent yes. But now because of this approach, this
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: nine year old is scared of grandma because grandma is
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: giving dirty looks and then saying you can't do that,
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: and I'm taking you to the police. So how likely
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: is it that this kid is going to grow up
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: and be like, oh, I'm struggling with something, I should
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: go and talk to my grandma about this. Kiddo is
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: now scared of police, even though the police were being nice.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: Grandma's getting mad at the police for not being mean enough.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: And what we've also got here is I think that
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: this child's going to be scared of dad because that
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: is not being nice. Dad is not working things out.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: Dad's just saying we're going to go and talk to
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: grandma and then we're going to have a police station.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: So even Dad's not willing to work with the child
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: on the problem. And there are definitely are problems here
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: that need to be worked on. Oh and I don't
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: have a problem with parents asking for help, but I
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: feel like this dad is just abrogating his responsibility. Maybe
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I'm being a little bit harsh, but seriously, like man up,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: be the dad, be the parent.
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: I know, I'm laughing because it's just it's a little
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: bit comical how social media has the power to just
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: get under our blow things up, yes, and blow things
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: out of proportion. However, there is a story that you
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: have told over the years that highlights this situation in
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: such a powerful way. It was about a young boy
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: who brought peanuts to school one day, right and threw
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: them in front of the face of a child who
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: was anaphylactic and said, I'm.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Going to kill you with this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. True
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: story happened on the New South Wales central coast, probably
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: about I was right at the very start of when
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: I was doing the parenting stuff, so it would have
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: been nearly twenty years ago.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: And I love the advice that you gave to that
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: mum that day. Would you like to share?
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: I can't remember what I said. I remember the story.
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: Are you serious?
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: You can remember the advice? Obviously it's probably in harmony
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: with the advice. I'm then had given a second what
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: is the parenting solution that I gave?
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: Well, the parent was wrong. The school explained to her
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: what had happened, and she needed to come to collect
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: her child, and she gave you a phone call before
• 8:22
  Speaker 4: she even got there. She said, this is what's happened.
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: What am I supposed to do? And you asked her
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: what she wanted to do?
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it was I want to put him
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: through the wall or something like that.
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: And she then asked you, but what am I supposed
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: to do? And your response was just one of absolute
• 8:42
  Speaker 4: love and acknowledgment that this little boy, in spite of
• 8:46
  Speaker 4: what he had done, was struggling for whatever reason, in
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: whatever space, there was something going on for him that
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: was making him act in such a poor way. He
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: knew that he'd done the wrong thing. He already knew
• 9:00
  Speaker 4: that he didn't need her to come in heavy handed.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: He didn't need her to make him feel any worse.
• 9:07
  Speaker 4: He already felt worse, And the idea that she could
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: be a soft place for him to come so that
• 9:13
  Speaker 4: they could actually have connection and the potential for her
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: to utilize that time to teach him better ways to
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: act only comes through being soft, not coming down hard.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, so some people will hear what you're saying and think, oh,
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: here we go. Namby pamby Cotton Wooll Bubble app gentle parenting.
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: It's not what this is.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: After the break, I have another story that I think
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: is even more powerful and more pertinent that will illustrate
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: not just what not to do, but also precisely what
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: needs to happen in this kind of situation. I can't
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: wait to share it to stay Next we're back. This
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: is the Happy Family's podcast. If you're enjoying the pod,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: police share it with your friends, your neighbors, other parents,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: anyone that you think would benefit from the stuff that
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: we share to make families happier. Okay, we've got a
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: situation where there's been some bullying, some unkindness. There's a
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: child who needs to learn how to be civil, courteous,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: considerate of others. And the solution that the dad comes
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: up with is go to grandma and then get grandma
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: to take child to the police, so the police and
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: grandma cant scare the heck out of the child so
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: they'll never do the wrong thing again. Research shows this
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: doesn't work. There's a story that I shared in one
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: of my books, twenty one Days to a Happier Family,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: about ten years ago, fifteen years ago, and I wrote
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: that book that has always stayed with me, and that
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: I think is perfectly pertinent for this scenario. A young
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: girl was in trouble at school. She was in her
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: I think grade nine, grade ten, so I think she
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: was about fifteen. She created an explicit website featuring one
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: of her classmates with a whole lot of photo shop
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: and superimposed faces on explicit images of other people and
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: their bodies, and shared the website with a whole lot
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: of people and really just tried to hurt, cause genuine
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: harm to the reputation of this girl that she didn't
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: like in her class. Horrible stuff. Anyway, the school found
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: out about it, mum gets called in. The great irony
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: is that the mum in this instance was working in
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: the laboratory of a university professor who studied cyberbullying, and
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: now her fifteen year old daughter has been called into
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: the office for doing some absolutely breathtakingly horrendous cyberbullying, some
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: of the worst stuff that you could probably imagine. And
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: the moment is just freaking out. She's like, how could
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: you do this? What is going on? Why where did
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: this come from? And she basically had this massive fight
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: with her daughter that lasted for day after day after day.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: She confiscated screens, confiscated computers, threatened to get the police involved.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: The other family were threatening that as well. I mean,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: this thing just blew up. And all that happened is
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: that her daughter got worse and worse, started taking rug's grades,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: went down even further, started wagging school like this. This
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: thing just blew up. It got to the point where
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: this mum took the door off her daughter's bedroom so
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: that she could monitor her and so that she could
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: really prove that she meant what she said when she
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: said this girl was in trouble. Anyway, time passes and
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: they eventually get back onto talking terms. We're talking weeks
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: down the track, six eight weeks, and then mum has
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: this brain wave. She's like me doing the tough stuff
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: isn't working, has a conversation with her daughter and ends
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: up buying her a puppy. So fast forward another couple
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: of months and they're out on a walk one afternoon
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: walking the puppy. The relationship has healed a little bit more,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: and while they're chatting about life, they walked past some
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: boys not far away in the park who are throwing
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: stones at a bird in its nest up in a tree,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: and the mom's just saying, like, what are they doing?
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: And the girl's getting really upset, And then the mum
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: has this flash of inspiration and she says, see how
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: those boys are throwing the rocks at the bird in
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: the tree and at the nest, and you're getting really
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: upset about it. Well, in the same way, the other
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: parents of that girl that you were in trouble for
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: at school, they were that's how they felt. They felt
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: like you were throwing stones at their daughter and a
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: naest up high in the branches of a tree. And
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: this mum described how when she had that conversation with
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: her daughter, there was all of a sudden, this massive
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: empathy influx, and this girl suddenly realized, Oh, I get it.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: I was causing I was causing real harm, Like this
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: could have been really, really bad. She said it was
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: the first time, the first time that she'd cracked it.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: But then as they started to talk more, a very
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: important detail that I haven't shared yet came out. As
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: they talked about what was going on and the reasons
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: for this girl's behavior, turns out that about a year
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: before it all blew up, this lady had lost her husband.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: This girl had lost her dad. He passed away unexpectedly
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: and the family was in turmoil, and as a result,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: mama had to go back to work. That's why she
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: was working in that university professor's lab studying cyberbuilding. That's
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: why she wasn't available to her daughter. That's why her
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: daughter was so upset. Doesn't excuse the behavior, but it
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: helps to understand why this girl was just reeling. She
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: didn't have the support that she needed, and unfortunately, like
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: too many people, because she was hurt, she decided to
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: lash out in an unproductive and unhelpful way. The solution
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: is not fear. The solution is not tyranny. The solution
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: is not anger.
• 14:36
  Speaker 4: Well, she would never have had that conversation if she
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: had a continued with the same line approach that she
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: had in the beginning. So as you said, it's why
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: it's taken so.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Long, that's right. And as you said, when we kind
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: of deviated off the script a little bit with the
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: story that you shared that I couldn't really remember. In
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: the first part of the podcast, you said, we need softness,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: and it's not softness because we're going to let the
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: kids get away with everything, nor are we going to
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: pander to their poor little feelings. It's not that kind
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: of gentle parenting softness. It's softness as in, I'm going
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: to create a level of safety here where you and
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: I can problem solve. And the best problem solving in
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: an incident like this is problem solving through empathy. We
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: want our child to be able to take the perspective
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: of the victim, of the person who's being bullied in
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: this case, of the Hispanic kid who's now being threatened
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: because Trump's going to send the Ice agents in and
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: deport you.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: So, if we can have empathy, if we can help
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: our children to experience empathy, to take the perspective of
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: another person, to stand in their shoes, we can have
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: much more productive conversations around solving the problem of unkindness, cruelty, bullying.
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: But that only happens when we are able to step
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: into the shoes of empathy ourselves.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and see how our child is feeling and engage
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: with them at that level.
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: Like, that's the step that parents miss so often because
• 16:09
  Speaker 4: our natural response is to crack down, get hard, be harsh. Ye,
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: And yet if we would take the opposite approach, we
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: actually get to show our kids in real time, what
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: it looks like to take someone else's perspective in that moment.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Here's my prorocative take that dad, that grandparent. They became
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: bullies to that little girl.
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, the big person wins.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: They just repeated the process exactly exactly. They didn't help her,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: they didn't teach her. We need to wrap this up.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Our time is well and truly done. Let me say
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: this really clearly. Don't get your parenting advice from social media.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: And if you are getting it from social media, make
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: sure it's from people who are credible and who have
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: actually got solutions and something to share with you that works.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Because this sort of stuff making it into our mainstream
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: media and turning into part of the parenting discourse, the
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: narrative that's in our community, it's going to damage kids,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: it's going to damage families, and it's going to lead
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: to negative outcomes, not positive outcomes. Hopefully, the stuff that
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: we've shared just now provides some more hopeful and helpful
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: ways forward if you and your family are struggling with
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: these kinds of challenges. The Happy Families podcast is produced
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: by Justin roll On from Bridge Media. Mim Hammond's provides
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: our additional support for the pod, and if you'd like
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: more info to make your family happy, we'd love for
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: you to check us out at happyfamilies dot com dot
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: au or jump onto our social pages