Latest / The Uplifters / Midlife Private Parts: A Love Note to Female Friendship in Our 50s

Transcript

Midlife Private Parts: A Love Note to Female Friendship in Our 50s · The Uplifters

0:05
Hey,
0:05
uplifters,
0:06
you know how much I love experimenting and trying new things.
0:09
It's how I build courage capital every day by testing and
0:13
learning and discovering
0:15
SPEAKER_01: what really works for me.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: That's why I'm so excited to introduce you to Join the Tribe.
0:21
The founder is a total uplifter who lovingly curates products
0:26
from emerging
0:27
SPEAKER_01: founders with seriously inspiring stories.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: I've tried so many of the Join the Tribe products at this point,
0:33
SPEAKER_01: and I've discovered so many favorites.
0:36
But what I love most of all is that more than half of the
0:39
products on the Join the
0:40
SPEAKER_01: Tribe website support a woman who's building something meaningful.
0:45
It's really like getting to be a part of someone's uplifting
0:49
journey while
0:50
SPEAKER_01: discovering great stuff for yourself.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: And they do these terrific surprise boxes,
0:56
SPEAKER_01: which make perfect effortless gifts for literally anyone on your list.
1:00
SPEAKER_01: Because I mean, who doesn't love a little surprise in the mail?
1:05
Check out Join the Tribe and use code UPLIFTER20 for 20% off
1:10
the website for your first order.
1:12
SPEAKER_01: It's jointhetribe.com, T-R-Y-B.com.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to a very special Galentine's episode of The Uplifters.
1:25
Today,
1:25
I am thrilled to chat with the Dinas,
1:29
Dina Aronson and Dina Alvarez.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: Dina Aronson is a writer and editor and a pro-age advocate,
1:38
SPEAKER_01: hell yes,
1:39
SPEAKER_01: who is on a mission to reframe how we talk about getting older.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: She spent years as an attorney,
1:45
and then made a great big Courageous Pivot 51 when she realized
1:49
that the media
1:50
SPEAKER_01: landscape that was out there did not reflect the rich,
1:54
SPEAKER_01: complex reality of her own midlife experience.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: She launched Patina first as a blog,
1:59
SPEAKER_01: now as a really fabulous Substack newsletter,
2:02
SPEAKER_01: Go Read It,
2:03
SPEAKER_01: where she explores aging through an honest and curious midlife lens.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: She is here with Nina Alvarez, who is awesome.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: also a writer and editor.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: She spent her career as a freelance writer.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: Then she co-founded Somos Padres.
2:20
SPEAKER_01: She turned all of her attention to the stories of midlife women,
2:23
microblogging about themes that were resonating deeply with her
2:28
own experience and
2:28
SPEAKER_01: other women navigating this midlife period.
2:32
SPEAKER_01: Together,
2:32
SPEAKER_01: these women have created Midlife Private Parts,
2:36
an anthology that's giving voice to diverse women's experiences
2:40
of stepping into
2:41
SPEAKER_01: midlife and reimagining what comes next.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: I love your book, Dina and Dina.
2:47
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
2:48
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: So we all have a duplicate.
2:51
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: We all have our routines and I am not a great paper reader.
2:58
And so I mostly listen to books on Audible and I get to listen
3:01
to a lot of books.
3:02
The only things I read in paper really are the New York
3:06
Magazine because every
3:07
night I read one story and I read every issue cover to cover
3:12
before the next one
3:13
SPEAKER_01: comes and
3:14
And I have set it aside for the last two weeks and only read
3:18
these wonderful stories.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: My book is already all dog-eared because it's like uplifters as a book.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: And it just,
3:29
SPEAKER_01: you know,
3:30
SPEAKER_01: if a big part of our mission is to provide evidence that we can do big,
3:34
SPEAKER_01: brave things in every chapter of our lives,
3:38
this book is just filled with stories that provide sort of
3:41
incontrovertible proof
3:42
SPEAKER_01: of that.
3:44
SPEAKER_01: And for me reading it,
3:47
SPEAKER_01: I realized there were just A,
3:49
so many conversations and perspectives that are
3:53
underrepresented in the media
3:54
SPEAKER_01: landscape told with so much authenticity and love and courage.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: And I think so much of that must surely go to you as editors.
4:07
So before we talk about how and why and all of that,
4:10
I just want to say thank you.
4:12
for creating this digest for all of us to find pieces and parts
4:17
of our own stories
4:18
and see them through new lenses and the work to bring them
4:22
forth with so much
4:23
SPEAKER_01: honesty and compassion for where we are.
4:28
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for having us.
4:30
It feels so good to hear your reaction and response because it
4:35
was so the goal of
4:38
SPEAKER_03: putting these stories out into the world.
4:39
SPEAKER_03: And it's,
4:40
SPEAKER_03: you know,
4:40
SPEAKER_03: when culture stops telling our stories and in popular culture and media,
4:45
SPEAKER_03: it can be really hard to know what's possible for ourselves.
4:49
SPEAKER_03: And it's in these stories, I think you can see
4:53
SPEAKER_03: Through all of it, what's possible?
4:55
SPEAKER_03: And what's possible is amazing stuff.
4:59
SPEAKER_03: And different stuff.
5:03
SPEAKER_00: And it's beautiful that so many midlife women said yes to us,
5:07
that they were so vulnerable in their storytelling and so
5:11
honest and so wanting to
5:13
SPEAKER_00: share their story to save other women in some way,
5:17
SPEAKER_00: younger women from,
5:18
SPEAKER_00: you know,
5:19
SPEAKER_00: we all have to make our mistakes,
5:20
SPEAKER_00: right?
5:20
But in sharing their own and being so vulnerable,
5:23
it also teaches them it's okay.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: Nothing is perfect.
5:26
SPEAKER_00: Life is, as one of our contributors says, hard and good.
5:31
So we just love that we were entrusted with these stories and
5:34
that it was done with
5:35
SPEAKER_00: a lot of love.
5:37
SPEAKER_01: I think that word entrusted is so huge.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: And I will tell you,
5:41
just having gotten to observe you in the digital world for a
5:46
month now and having
5:47
SPEAKER_01: had one all too brief conversation with you,
5:50
SPEAKER_01: I'm not surprised people trusted you.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: That's lovely to hear.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
5:54
That's really,
5:55
you really like seem to consciously create courageous space.
5:59
And that's honestly why I wanted to talk to you about this book
6:03
for this episode as
6:05
SPEAKER_01: a part of our love series,
6:07
SPEAKER_01: because you helped shape these stories in a very loving,
6:11
SPEAKER_01: compassionate way,
6:13
SPEAKER_01: which is what frankly,
6:14
SPEAKER_01: all of my favorite creators do.
6:15
SPEAKER_01: If I look at what books I love,
6:17
SPEAKER_01: what film I love,
6:19
it's somebody who genuinely loves the nuances and richness of a
6:22
human being.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: And I felt how consciously that was done in your book.
6:27
But I also see how consciously you do that in the way you
6:31
create connection with
6:34
SPEAKER_01: both your friends,
6:35
SPEAKER_01: your closest collaborators,
6:37
SPEAKER_01: and brand new friends like me.
6:40
I instantly felt like loved and supported and safe and like,
6:44
I'll tell them anything.
6:45
SPEAKER_01: So just huge shout out to you.
6:48
SPEAKER_03: Your secrets are safe with us.
6:51
SPEAKER_03: I believe that.
6:51
I feel like,
6:52
you know,
6:53
we pretty consciously have said to women,
6:55
it's a safe space,
6:57
right?
6:57
SPEAKER_03: And it's a big ask to say, bear your soul.
7:02
SPEAKER_03: But the thing is, they all did it.
7:04
SPEAKER_03: And I think just the act of sharing so vulnerably is such a loving act.
7:09
SPEAKER_03: It's such a loving act in service of women everywhere.
7:13
SPEAKER_03: And for Dina and I,
7:15
SPEAKER_03: you know,
7:15
SPEAKER_03: we've been going around now for five months and,
7:18
SPEAKER_03: you know,
7:19
SPEAKER_03: sharing stories and meeting women.
7:21
SPEAKER_03: And the responses have been uniformly,
7:23
SPEAKER_03: you know,
7:24
SPEAKER_03: wow,
7:24
SPEAKER_03: I,
7:25
SPEAKER_03: you know,
7:26
SPEAKER_03: I see myself here,
7:27
SPEAKER_03: like,
7:28
SPEAKER_03: thank you.
7:28
SPEAKER_03: And I just feel like our thank you goes to the women who,
7:32
SPEAKER_03: as Dina said,
7:33
SPEAKER_03: entrusted us to share,
7:34
SPEAKER_03: because it's hard.
7:36
SPEAKER_03: It's hard to open yourself up, not knowing where that's going.
7:40
SPEAKER_03: But they did it, I think, because they love this sisterhood.
7:44
SPEAKER_03: They love community and they want women to feel supported.
7:47
SPEAKER_03: And so it's a beautiful thing to be able to help usher that along.
7:52
And it was also lovely to see how cathartic it was for the
7:55
writers to put their
7:57
SPEAKER_00: story out,
7:58
SPEAKER_00: to get it out.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: I know some of them...
8:00
really had to think about what they wanted to say how they
8:03
wanted to say it what
8:04
they wanted to let go i mean there are a lot of as you've read
8:07
the book you see
8:08
there's some very personal things in the book and in the
8:11
beginning i used to say
8:12
you know these women wrote in a way in service to other women
8:15
but in a way that was
8:16
cathartic to them and now being on you know a little bit of a
8:20
book tour and panel
8:21
SPEAKER_00: discussions it's also been cathartic for the reader
8:24
SPEAKER_00: And so that was another kind of unexpected take to the book.
8:28
You know,
8:28
the writers wrote in a way that in service to others and also
8:31
to themselves.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: But then when readers come up,
8:34
SPEAKER_00: you know,
8:34
SPEAKER_00: we had an instance with Dina Aronson where a woman came up and said,
8:37
SPEAKER_00: you know,
8:37
SPEAKER_00: I just lost my mom and I read your essay and it was so meaningful to me.
8:41
And,
8:42
you know,
8:42
someone else says,
8:43
I know what it's like to feel invisible.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: And reading these stories really makes me feel seen and
8:48
So it's the balance between the both sides coming together
8:52
unexpectedly like that
8:53
SPEAKER_00: has been such a beautiful,
8:55
SPEAKER_00: loving thing for Dina and I,
8:57
because we leave these events and we're just so like we're
9:00
honestly just blown away
9:02
by the reactions of so many women and then the community that
9:06
we're building.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: And it's it is a community of love.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: You know, we have.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: women that are constantly reaching out and saying,
9:12
SPEAKER_00: you should know this person,
9:13
SPEAKER_00: you should know this person,
9:15
SPEAKER_00: this person has a great story,
9:16
SPEAKER_00: you guys do a great job,
9:18
SPEAKER_00: you know,
9:18
SPEAKER_00: connecting and communicating,
9:19
SPEAKER_00: maybe you can put them in the right direction.
9:22
So the writing has led to many,
9:25
many pieces of the puzzle,
9:26
including the readers feeling seen.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: It's been an amazing journey.
9:32
I'm really glad that you have gotten into these rooms and had
9:38
these conversations
9:39
so that you can have some of that reflected back to you because
9:43
the creative life
9:44
SPEAKER_01: can be a lonely one and to be able to see the impact you're having,
9:49
SPEAKER_01: I think is profound.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just,
9:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm really glad you've given yourself that gift,
9:54
SPEAKER_01: having given all of us the gift of the work.
9:57
You touch on a lot of really brave topics and we've talked a
10:01
little bit about
10:02
the vulnerability around some of those and it's everything from
10:07
relationships and
10:08
SPEAKER_01: illness and death and pleasure and the physical,
10:13
SPEAKER_01: the mental,
10:14
SPEAKER_01: the spiritual,
10:15
SPEAKER_01: all of the challenges.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: Have you noticed that there are any particular themes that
10:23
have been the most still sort of taboo or edgy as you've
10:28
connected with audiences
10:30
SPEAKER_01: and heard them reflected back that people are like,
10:32
I can't believe
10:35
SPEAKER_03: That's a great question.
10:37
SPEAKER_03: Well,
10:37
SPEAKER_03: since Dina raised death,
10:38
SPEAKER_03: I will say,
10:40
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if death is edgy,
10:42
SPEAKER_03: but I do think death still is sort of shrouded in silence and fear.
10:47
SPEAKER_03: And it is something we do not talk about in this culture.
10:52
And my very strong feeling is we have to because it impacts the
10:57
way we live.
10:58
SPEAKER_03: Right.
10:58
SPEAKER_03: And for me,
11:00
my mom's passing was very much a catalyst to want to bring
11:04
these stories together
11:05
SPEAKER_03: and put them out in the world.
11:07
SPEAKER_03: And I feel like sitting with the impermanence
11:11
SPEAKER_03: of life is an incredible motivator, you know?
11:16
And so I've always a little bit surprised that there's so much
11:19
like engagement around death.
11:22
Dina,
11:22
don't you,
11:23
have you noticed that there's been a lot of- Yeah,
11:25
absolutely.
11:26
Especially as of late,
11:27
Dina,
11:28
I think in the beginning,
11:29
the draw was really towards menopause.
11:31
And I don't know if it was just the timing when the book
11:33
launched where there was a
11:34
SPEAKER_00: lot going on in that circle,
11:36
SPEAKER_00: but
11:37
SPEAKER_00: But really in the past,
11:39
SPEAKER_00: I think the past two or three months,
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Dina,
11:41
it's really been more towards acceptance of death and grief and
11:47
how we get through
11:48
SPEAKER_00: it and understanding it.
11:49
And I think it's because so many women in this space,
11:52
you know,
11:52
it's an unfortunate time.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: We're losing people, right?
11:55
SPEAKER_00: And we're not really talking about it.
11:57
SPEAKER_00: We're not putting it out there.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't see people writing essays like Dina is writing books.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: on a weekly basis.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: We could read about menopause every day now if we want.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: So I do agree in the beginning it was more menopause,
12:10
SPEAKER_00: but now it's really more about what happens.
12:12
How do you handle this stage in life when you're losing people
12:16
closest to you?
12:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
12:18
SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, can you think of anything else, Dina, like edgy?
12:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, we were just saying every conversation dry vaginas come up
12:26
chapter the pleasure chapter was the one that i was like yes
12:29
gabriella yeah wow and
12:32
laura and both of them were incredible yeah two fabulous women
12:38
wonderful writers
12:40
and very very forthcoming right because their essays did not
12:44
hold back they were
12:45
SPEAKER_01: very true i think it was laura that i was like
12:48
SPEAKER_01: damn girl, you are the bravest person I know.
12:51
SPEAKER_03: You would love her.
12:53
That was one of the essays where I feel like both Dean and I
12:56
read those aloud to our husbands.
12:59
SPEAKER_03: They loved that.
12:59
SPEAKER_03: They loved it, obviously.
13:01
SPEAKER_03: But I think when we read Laura's, I was like, we have a book here.
13:06
SPEAKER_03: Like, I want Laura's essay.
13:09
SPEAKER_03: I want to see that in like a streaming series.
13:12
SPEAKER_03: I want to see her on that date and going back with the man.
13:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:18
SPEAKER_03: Incredible writer.
13:19
SPEAKER_03: Incredible writer.
13:20
She wrote a whole book,
13:21
by the way,
13:22
for your audience to know,
13:23
called Available.
13:24
SPEAKER_03: Laura Friedman Williams.
13:25
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to go find it.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: And she was one of the first essays that came in,
13:30
which was really helpful that it was from her and at that time
13:34
and on that subject.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:35
Because it really propelled us to move forward in ways that
13:39
maybe we wouldn't have
13:40
SPEAKER_00: if we'd gotten a bit of a tamer essay to begin with,
13:43
SPEAKER_00: right?
13:45
SPEAKER_00: We looked at this like, wow, this is going to be a phenomenal book.
13:49
I love that you say that too,
13:50
because that's so much of what the book is doing for us.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: Because if our role models are,
13:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
13:58
midlife is you sign up for classes at the town recreation
14:03
center and do some
14:03
SPEAKER_01: jazzercise.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: And that feels like the stretch.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: That's as far as we're going to stretch, right?
14:08
SPEAKER_01: It's the whole see her be her concept here.
14:11
And so you,
14:12
I think through these stories,
14:13
these women are showing us how to stretch things.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: in all sorts of ways and to expand our sense of possibility.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: You talked a little bit,
14:22
SPEAKER_01: Dean Aronson,
14:22
about what the catalyst was for you specifically in creating
14:26
this anthology.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: How about for you, Dean Alvarez?
14:30
SPEAKER_01: What made you really want to do this now?
14:33
SPEAKER_00: Well,
14:34
SPEAKER_00: when I was microblogging and I was connecting with midlife women,
14:37
SPEAKER_00: I just was watching them through a very kind of distant lens,
14:42
but I was still able to see that there was a lot more that I
14:47
didn't know about
14:48
SPEAKER_00: them.
14:48
And I thought that they were interesting women and I knew they
14:52
had interesting stories.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: And I felt that these stories were not being told.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Why?
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Because no one was asking a midlife woman anything.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: So to me, I felt like this is perfect timing.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: Midlife women are making huge strides, right?
15:08
SPEAKER_00: We have people starting new businesses.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: We have podcasters.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: We have people going into different spaces in their life.
15:15
You know,
15:15
they are not looking at midlife as taking a backseat to
15:18
anything.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: As a matter of fact,
15:20
they are jumping in the front seat and they are really just
15:23
driving wherever they
15:24
SPEAKER_00: need to go.
15:25
And I thought,
15:26
I want other people,
15:27
other women to know that midlife is not
15:31
decline or,
15:32
you know,
15:33
disappointment or looking at,
15:35
you know,
15:36
my life is,
15:36
you know,
15:37
I'm done.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: My life is whatever, halfway done.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: And what can I accomplish now?
15:41
SPEAKER_00: I wanted these stories to show other women what can be accomplished.
15:46
And I wanted them to see that through their own vulnerability
15:49
in writing these
15:50
SPEAKER_00: essays,
15:51
they could show other women who are not in these spaces because
15:55
Dina and I often
15:55
SPEAKER_00: talk about
15:57
SPEAKER_00: you know, it's a bubble, right?
15:59
SPEAKER_00: We're not in all the spaces.
16:00
Some women are not in centralized locations,
16:03
don't have a great community.
16:05
And so the book just felt like a good way of expressing what
16:09
midlife women are
16:10
living and doing at this time and putting it out to women that
16:13
are not in these
16:14
SPEAKER_00: circles and letting them know what they can accomplish.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
16:19
SPEAKER_01: You're both writers.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: You both have incredible creative resources.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: And you chose to do this as an anthology.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: And more than that, you chose to do it together.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: So Dina Aronson, talk to us about how and why you made that decision.
16:38
SPEAKER_03: I would not have done this book without Dina Alvarez.
16:43
SPEAKER_03: I think from the moment we met, and we have a great meet-cute story.
16:48
SPEAKER_03: I want to hear the whole thing.
16:49
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to let Dina Alvarez share the meet-cute.
16:52
SPEAKER_03: But I just think there was kind of an immediate kindred spirit feeling.
16:56
SPEAKER_03: And we...
16:59
After the meet cute,
17:00
we ran into each other on the street in New York City,
17:03
which was crazy.
17:04
SPEAKER_03: And there were just a,
17:05
SPEAKER_03: you know,
17:05
SPEAKER_03: I was saying earlier today to somebody,
17:07
SPEAKER_03: when the universe speaks loudly,
17:09
SPEAKER_03: you have to listen.
17:10
SPEAKER_03: But I think we just both were very aligned and we both had this feeling.
17:17
SPEAKER_03: First of all, we both love storytelling.
17:20
We both shared this sense that like we were not being
17:23
represented out there.
17:24
SPEAKER_03: Women's stories were not being told.
17:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
17:26
I had an idea for one kind of book that was more sort of health
17:30
and menopause and
17:31
SPEAKER_03: what to expect when you can no longer expect kind of thing.
17:34
SPEAKER_03: Dina can tell you she had a different anthology idea around women,
17:38
SPEAKER_03: but more mothers and our mothers.
17:40
SPEAKER_03: And so as we got to know each other and sort of built our friendship,
17:44
SPEAKER_03: it just I think we just felt very drawn to working together.
17:48
And we,
17:48
you know,
17:49
we were really aligned on what kinds of things we wanted to do.
17:53
SPEAKER_03: And,
17:53
SPEAKER_03: you know,
17:54
SPEAKER_03: there's something really beautiful just in our friendship story,
17:58
because I think a lot of women get to a certain point and then
18:01
life starts,
18:02
SPEAKER_03: you know,
18:03
SPEAKER_03: they find themselves in all these transitions,
18:04
SPEAKER_03: jobs are changing,
18:05
SPEAKER_03: kids are leaving the nest.
18:07
Maybe friendships they had that were more out of convenience
18:09
start to fall away.
18:11
SPEAKER_03: And it feels sometimes,
18:13
SPEAKER_03: I think,
18:13
very hard to think about making new friends as you move into
18:16
your 40s and 50s.
18:17
SPEAKER_03: And I will tell you, Dean and I didn't meet until our earlier 50s.
18:21
SPEAKER_03: And all of the women involved in this book, we met.
18:25
SPEAKER_03: Post 50.
18:26
And so I just love that piece of the story because it's really
18:30
so emblematic of the
18:31
SPEAKER_03: larger message of the book that it is never too late.
18:35
SPEAKER_03: There's no expiration date.
18:37
SPEAKER_03: There's no script you need to follow.
18:39
SPEAKER_03: Like we made this all happen post 50.
18:42
SPEAKER_03: And I just love that piece of it.
18:44
It's so energizing to hear you say this because so many women
18:51
are struggling with
18:53
SPEAKER_01: adult friendship.
18:54
We featured a story a while back on two women who call
18:58
themselves LILBFFs,
19:00
SPEAKER_01: which was late in life best friends forever.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:04
And it was so meaningful because so many people find themselves
19:11
either they've
19:11
SPEAKER_01: grown apart energetically,
19:14
SPEAKER_01: physically from the people they were once with.
19:17
They found that the people they were spending their time with
19:20
weren't people they
19:21
SPEAKER_01: admired or connected with.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: or were uplifted by.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:27
SPEAKER_01: And so I think it is a huge part of this story.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: And so seeing friendships that become collaborations and partnerships,
19:36
SPEAKER_01: like what better love story could there be?
19:40
And it's every bit as important to our mental health,
19:43
our physical health,
19:44
SPEAKER_01: as any other kind of love.
19:46
SPEAKER_01: Except maybe self-love.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: That may be first person.
19:48
SPEAKER_01: But it's also a pathway to self-love in many cases.
19:52
SPEAKER_03: I think you have to love yourself to give yourself over to this kind of a
19:57
SPEAKER_03: relationship and partnership.
19:59
It has to start from within because if you're not loving
20:01
yourself,
20:02
you're not going to show up.
20:04
SPEAKER_03: You're not going to bring your best, most open, vulnerable self.
20:09
And you need to bring that vulnerable self to any relationship
20:12
if there's going to
20:13
SPEAKER_03: be a true connection.
20:14
SPEAKER_03: Please tell me the meet cute.
20:16
SPEAKER_00: I met Dina on what I call a midlife blind date.
20:20
SPEAKER_00: And I really recommend it to all midlife women out there.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: You know,
20:24
sometimes you just have to invite someone out to dinner that
20:28
you don't know in
20:29
person that you might have seen online or someone might have
20:31
told you about,
20:33
SPEAKER_00: which is what I did.
20:33
I invited someone out to dinner and she in turn invited someone
20:37
else who then
20:38
SPEAKER_00: invited Dina Aronson.
20:40
SPEAKER_00: And so on my way to dinner, I'm thinking, you know, what am I doing?
20:44
SPEAKER_00: What if we have nothing in common?
20:47
SPEAKER_00: What if we have nothing to talk about?
20:49
SPEAKER_00: Like,
20:49
I just started going to this place of worry because I'd never
20:53
done anything like
20:54
SPEAKER_00: that before.
20:55
I almost canceled at the last minute because I just kind of got
20:59
into my head.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: It was a long day at work.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: I was tired.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: I was in the cab going up the West Side Highway.
21:04
SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, do I need to go to dinner tonight?
21:06
Like you kind of start sometimes questioning yourself,
21:10
like when you feel tired.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad that I didn't cancel because we would not have a book.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: We wouldn't have met each other.
21:17
And we've really become wonderful friends and we can bounce
21:23
things off of each other.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: We can be completely honest with each other and vulnerable.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: And it's really been a beautiful thing.
21:29
So I hope anyone listening to this goes on a midlife friendship
21:33
line date.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: I think it's amazing.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: a phenomenal thing to do.
21:38
And the worst thing that happens is you go out and you have a
21:40
nice dinner together
21:41
SPEAKER_00: and you part ways.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: But I'm pretty certain that you will find someone you will connect with.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: I love it so much.
21:48
And now I just want us or somebody else to start the dating
21:51
service for it.
21:53
SPEAKER_03: Seriously.
21:53
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, let's go.
21:54
SPEAKER_03: For the business idea, put that in the column to be revisited.
21:59
I want to just add on because Dina says how I like to say the
22:01
part where she almost
22:02
SPEAKER_03: got out of the cab.
22:04
And the reason I really think that's such an important part of
22:07
the story is that,
22:09
SPEAKER_03: and you'll see this theme sort of running through the book too,
22:12
SPEAKER_03: is that saying yes and coming out of the comfort zone is
22:16
SPEAKER_03: which we've all done to make this book happen.
22:19
SPEAKER_03: And we,
22:20
SPEAKER_03: you know,
22:20
SPEAKER_03: it's the only,
22:22
SPEAKER_03: in my humble opinion,
22:23
the only way to true growth is to come out of that zone and to
22:28
show up and say yes,
22:30
SPEAKER_03: even if you're not sure.
22:32
So that's why I always like bring that little piece out if
22:36
she's skipped it.
22:36
SPEAKER_03: Because I just think it's really important.
22:38
SPEAKER_03: It's an important piece of the message, you know.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: And so often we miss the big opportunities,
22:45
SPEAKER_01: the big growth,
22:46
SPEAKER_01: the big change because of the minor discomfort.
22:50
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: A little short-term awkwardness is always worth enduring.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:58
SPEAKER_01: Long-term awkwardness, long-term discomfort.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: We can have another conversation about that.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:03
SPEAKER_01: There is something, I think, in the way you two are friending here.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: What do you see as the keys to being great midlife friends and building a
23:15
SPEAKER_01: friendship and nurturing it?
23:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to start by saying that Dina pushes me out of my comfort zone.
23:22
And sometimes I don't like it,
23:24
but it's always led me somewhere really great.
23:30
And I think that that is,
23:32
I value many things of her in regards to our friendship.
23:36
SPEAKER_00: But I think her seeing when I'm struggling and saying,
23:40
SPEAKER_00: you know what,
23:41
SPEAKER_00: I know you don't feel great about this,
23:43
SPEAKER_00: but I'm going to push you a little bit because you need to be pushed.
23:46
SPEAKER_00: And you might not like it now, but you'll be okay later.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: And she'll always say like, we'll hold each other's hands.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: And she's right.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: And we have.
23:53
And it's been a wonderful experience being retrospectively
23:57
being pushed out of my
23:58
SPEAKER_00: comfort zone,
23:59
SPEAKER_00: which I would never have expected to say.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: A great friend will do that for you.
24:04
SPEAKER_00: She will say,
24:05
SPEAKER_00: you're only going to be better if you do this,
24:08
even though you feel terrible now about it or you're scared or
24:12
you're nervous or
24:14
SPEAKER_00: whatever the case may be.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's really important if you find someone who's like that,
24:19
who can kind of read you and know you're going to be a better
24:22
person if you do it.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: Like, let's, I'll help you.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: Let's do it together.
24:27
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love that.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: That's really beautiful.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: And I'll say that the key takeaway,
24:31
I think in that for us as friends is to listen to the other
24:35
person and respond to
24:39
SPEAKER_01: their vulnerabilities,
24:40
SPEAKER_01: their fears and acknowledge them.
24:42
And then we can say like,
24:44
I see your fear,
24:45
but also I think we're stronger together.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: So what if we try?
24:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: Right.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: So it really doesn't start with, let's be brave.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: It starts with, I know this is scary.
24:55
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
24:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:55
SPEAKER_03: And I think it's that we are comfortable being uncomfortable together.
25:01
We bring our whole and true selves to our friendship,
25:05
to our creative partnership.
25:08
SPEAKER_03: As Dina said, we are able to be very honest with each other.
25:11
SPEAKER_03: There's no big egos here.
25:14
SPEAKER_03: We just really like each other.
25:16
SPEAKER_03: And we're really well aligned on the things that are important.
25:20
SPEAKER_03: It's like the fundamental stuff.
25:21
SPEAKER_03: I think we share a sensibility about and,
25:25
SPEAKER_03: you know,
25:26
SPEAKER_03: and we're able to disagree too and work through that.
25:29
SPEAKER_03: Like, it's just, I feel really blessed and lucky.
25:31
SPEAKER_03: And I, you know, I'm glad she didn't get out of the cab.
25:34
SPEAKER_03: That's all I'll say.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: Me too.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: In midlife,
25:38
SPEAKER_01: you know,
25:38
SPEAKER_01: we can certainly point to the things that become less easy,
25:44
SPEAKER_01: like technology.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: Maybe some physical things.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's a little like cognitive slowing down.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: So there are things that become more challenging,
25:57
SPEAKER_01: but there's also,
25:59
SPEAKER_01: and I think what's so underrepresented,
26:01
we hear this in your anthology and we hear this so much in your
26:04
story is that we
26:05
have spent decades even consolidating and compiling resources
26:10
and knowledge that
26:11
SPEAKER_01: then we get to put to work for us.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: And so I imagine you are in this friendship and this partnership and
26:20
leveraging all of your decades of experience of what worked and
26:23
what didn't.
26:25
And so it really is just such a ripe and powerful time to do
26:29
and try new things
26:31
SPEAKER_01: because you've been building toward them.
26:33
SPEAKER_03: I so agree with that.
26:34
SPEAKER_03: And I often say like, there's really no such thing as a midlife beginner.
26:40
SPEAKER_03: Because you do bring... I love that line.
26:43
SPEAKER_03: There isn't.
26:44
SPEAKER_03: I mean,
26:44
SPEAKER_03: unless maybe you're trying to learn Chinese,
26:47
SPEAKER_03: in which case I have no frame of reference at all.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: But they have learned something.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, like you learned like how your brain works best for learning.
26:54
SPEAKER_03: Right, right, right.
26:56
SPEAKER_03: But I wrote something recently where I talked about like,
26:59
SPEAKER_03: all of those sort of layers of experience,
27:02
like becoming like this jumping off platform so that you're
27:06
never starting from
27:07
SPEAKER_03: zero or scratch.
27:09
And so then to take two of us together,
27:11
our platforms are pretty high,
27:14
right?
27:14
SPEAKER_03: To jump off from.
27:15
So I think the reason I say that,
27:18
and I think it's an important sort of point to make is that
27:21
I think people become very overwhelmed by the idea of starting
27:25
something new.
27:26
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't have to be new,
27:27
SPEAKER_03: like I'm changing my career,
27:28
SPEAKER_03: blowing up my life,
27:29
SPEAKER_03: but like anything,
27:30
SPEAKER_03: like learning Mahjong,
27:31
SPEAKER_03: like whatever it is,
27:32
SPEAKER_03: like things can feel overwhelming when you feel like you have no clue,
27:36
SPEAKER_03: but you do have a clue.
27:38
SPEAKER_03: You have a clue.
27:39
SPEAKER_03: You understand how to connect dots in a way you never have before.
27:43
SPEAKER_03: So I just think it's an important point to make.
27:46
SPEAKER_03: We're not giving ourselves credit.
27:47
SPEAKER_03: No.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: And they do say you never lose the ages you've been.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: So it's easy to build on what you have to keep moving forward,
27:56
SPEAKER_00: which is something Dina and I have been able to do.
27:59
But doing it together is actually been even better because we
28:03
can kind of bounce
28:04
things off of each other and ideas and really kind of learn
28:09
that we can move
28:10
SPEAKER_00: forward,
28:10
SPEAKER_00: that we don't have to be,
28:12
SPEAKER_00: you know,
28:12
SPEAKER_00: we don't have to let fear kind of dictate what we want to do anymore.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, speaking of fear, it's a perfect transition here.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: You've both done lots of brave, scary things.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: And we've talked about some of them already.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: When I asked you that question individually earlier,
28:32
SPEAKER_01: you both actually said the same thing,
28:36
which was that the biggest mental hurdle for you in doing
28:40
courageous things is that
28:42
SPEAKER_01: feeling of readiness.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: And I think that comes up for so many of us.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: the question of, am I ready?
28:49
SPEAKER_01: And in another term, do I have enough credibility, right?
28:54
SPEAKER_01: And so I think those are, in essence, two sides of the same coin.
28:58
And so I'd like to talk to both of you about what you've
29:01
learned through doing hard
29:02
things about that feeling of readiness and credibility that's
29:06
gotten you over the
29:07
SPEAKER_01: hump to just go do the thing.
29:09
And I imagine one of them is looking at each other and saying,
29:11
are we ready?
29:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: Fuck it, let's do it anyway.
29:14
SPEAKER_01: But beyond that, Dean Aronson, you want to start?
29:18
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
29:18
I mean,
29:18
I'll go back to like the launching of my blog to Tina,
29:23
which I did in 2020.
29:24
And what's interesting is I had talked about launching a blog
29:28
for probably two and
29:29
SPEAKER_03: a half plus years.
29:32
SPEAKER_03: And I,
29:32
SPEAKER_03: I like wasn't ready as a practical matter,
29:36
SPEAKER_03: but beyond the practical,
29:37
SPEAKER_03: I was also like,
29:39
SPEAKER_03: I told myself I was researching,
29:41
SPEAKER_03: I was gathering information.
29:42
SPEAKER_03: I was ideating.
29:44
SPEAKER_03: I was scared.
29:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:45
And it's interesting that you talk about sort of the
29:48
credibility that was part of
29:49
SPEAKER_03: it for me was like,
29:50
SPEAKER_03: I have always been very qualified to do what I have done in my career.
29:54
SPEAKER_03: I had a I went to law school.
29:56
I had a law degree and a license from the state that said you
30:00
are qualified to do this.
30:01
SPEAKER_03: Right.
30:02
SPEAKER_03: And then when I shifted out of that, I still was qualified.
30:05
SPEAKER_03: Right.
30:05
SPEAKER_03: I stayed on the periphery.
30:07
SPEAKER_03: I went to work as a recruiter of lawyers.
30:10
SPEAKER_03: Then I went to work in law firm management.
30:12
SPEAKER_03: I was always very comfortably in my sort of qualifications.
30:15
SPEAKER_03: Right.
30:16
SPEAKER_03: And so when I started to think about shifting into writing,
30:19
SPEAKER_03: I was like,
30:20
SPEAKER_03: I don't have any bylines.
30:22
SPEAKER_03: Who's going to want to read this?
30:23
SPEAKER_03: Who's going to take me seriously?
30:25
SPEAKER_03: I'm not a writer.
30:26
SPEAKER_03: And I'll never forget the first time I told somebody I was a writer.
30:30
SPEAKER_03: It was like maybe six months or even a year after I launched the blog.
30:34
SPEAKER_03: And I was,
30:34
SPEAKER_03: this sounds crazy,
30:36
SPEAKER_03: but I was getting a watch battery for my husband at the Omega store.
30:40
And I was chit-chatting with the guy there and he's like,
30:43
what do you do?
30:43
SPEAKER_03: And I go, I'm a writer.
30:45
SPEAKER_03: And something shifted in my brain when I said that.
30:49
SPEAKER_03: You know, like I just, I owned it for the first time.
30:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:52
SPEAKER_03: But to answer the question of,
30:56
readiness I allowed all of those things to wash through me I
31:01
knew those were
31:01
limiting thoughts and at some point I said if I don't do this
31:05
now when am I going
31:07
to do it and that was kind of like what pushed me over the edge
31:10
like if not now
31:11
when and what is the worst thing that I think Dina said it
31:14
earlier but on another
31:15
SPEAKER_03: context what's the worst thing that can happen
31:17
SPEAKER_03: What's the worst thing?
31:18
SPEAKER_03: So it doesn't happen.
31:19
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't work.
31:21
SPEAKER_03: People tell me the writing is terrible.
31:22
SPEAKER_03: Whatever it is, I will learn.
31:24
If this is not meant,
31:26
if it's not the right thing,
31:27
I'll just learn from it.
31:28
SPEAKER_03: And I finally just was able to get myself into that mindset.
31:32
And I really just think it was,
31:35
if not now,
31:35
when and what is the worst thing that can happen?
31:37
I think those are the two things that kind of pushed me over
31:40
the edge there.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: Such a great answer.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: And I think for anyone listening who is...
31:44
SPEAKER_01: sitting in the, am I ready?
31:46
SPEAKER_01: Do I have enough credibility?
31:48
SPEAKER_01: Soup.
31:49
SPEAKER_01: Those two questions are extraordinarily powerful for anyone.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: Identity trumps action.
31:59
So a person who says,
32:00
I run,
32:01
is less likely to run against all obstacles than
32:07
SPEAKER_01: than a person who says, I am a runner.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: A person who says,
32:11
SPEAKER_01: I eat healthy,
32:13
SPEAKER_01: is less likely to eat healthy than a person who says,
32:15
SPEAKER_01: I am a healthy eater.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: And so stepping into that vision of ourselves,
32:22
SPEAKER_01: it's like,
32:23
SPEAKER_01: I think on the outside can sound a little bit like woo-woo,
32:26
SPEAKER_01: how can a word or two make a difference?
32:28
And yet study after study validates that it's actually
32:31
tremendously powerful in
32:33
SPEAKER_01: terms of our resilience and our self-belief.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: So Dina Alvarez, same question to you.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: How did you step into that?
32:41
So it's funny when you first asked about being ready,
32:44
my mind went to being a new mother.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: I was so not ready.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Are you ever really ready to have a child or to do anything really?
32:57
SPEAKER_00: When you really think about it, you always take a leap of faith.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the things that catches you is the people around you.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: You know,
33:05
I had a support system when my son was born who helped me kind
33:10
of navigate the
33:11
SPEAKER_00: difficulties of being a new mother.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: And so in every space in my life,
33:16
SPEAKER_00: when I haven't felt ready,
33:19
I've at least felt that I could pull in the right community to
33:23
get me to be ready.
33:25
And that's the only way I can manage is knowing that I'm going
33:29
to have the right
33:30
SPEAKER_00: people around me to help me get to where I want to be.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: Whatever ready means,
33:34
SPEAKER_00: whether it's writing a book,
33:35
SPEAKER_00: whether it's starting a podcast,
33:37
SPEAKER_00: whether it's getting into a new relationship.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: And that's where,
33:40
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:40
SPEAKER_00: friendships are so important in all parts of our life,
33:44
SPEAKER_00: but especially in midlife,
33:45
SPEAKER_00: because we are getting hit from all sides with so many things,
33:49
SPEAKER_00: right?
33:49
SPEAKER_00: Maybe some, you know, our relationship is changing.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: We have emptiness, we're
33:53
SPEAKER_00: Maybe our jobs are, maybe our careers are changing.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: So,
33:57
SPEAKER_00: you know,
33:58
SPEAKER_00: to answer that question,
33:59
SPEAKER_00: you know,
34:00
SPEAKER_00: the only way I can be ready or when I felt that I'm not ready,
34:02
I've always had to draw on the people around me and they've
34:05
always kind of pulled
34:06
SPEAKER_00: me through,
34:07
SPEAKER_00: you know,
34:08
SPEAKER_00: to be ready.
34:09
SPEAKER_00: Like,
34:10
I really value the support system now in ways that I didn't
34:14
maybe before because
34:16
SPEAKER_00: this book has showed me the value of collaboration.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: and friendship.
34:21
And there's been so much love there that I realize now looking
34:25
back the times that
34:26
SPEAKER_00: I've thought I'm ready,
34:28
SPEAKER_00: I'm only ready because I had the right people around me.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: So I think for me, being ready is a community effort, right?
34:35
SPEAKER_00: It's not just me being like, I'm ready.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to start.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: Like you don't do anything alone.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: No man is an island.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: We need support.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's okay to admit that.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: And that's how you get from point A to point B.
34:47
And that's something Dean and I have also done together so that
34:51
we can get to the
34:52
places where we want to be is through being ready through
34:56
community and finding the
34:57
SPEAKER_00: right people to engage with and work with.
35:01
It's such a great example too of what we were talking about
35:03
before about the
35:04
SPEAKER_01: accumulated resources of midlife.
35:06
That you've spent your life building these relationships and
35:11
creating that sense of
35:14
SPEAKER_01: survival, frankly.
35:15
You know,
35:16
there was a part you said,
35:17
like,
35:18
I've done hard things before so I can do them again.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: So we get that evidence and that proof as a resource,
35:24
SPEAKER_01: but also this,
35:25
SPEAKER_01: I've got my community that I've worked to build.
35:27
And now instead of trying to float off on an island,
35:31
I'm going to rally the resources I have.
35:33
SPEAKER_01: And so I think for anybody listening,
35:34
maybe this is a reminder to inventory all that you've built and
35:38
grown throughout
35:39
SPEAKER_01: the course of your life.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: So we talked a little bit about, though, what's hard in midlife.
35:46
So what are your priority practices in midlife for your body,
35:51
mind,
35:51
spirit,
35:52
whatever?
35:53
SPEAKER_01: You're like, no matter what, I do not skip this.
35:57
SPEAKER_03: I don't skip my coffee in the morning because I know that it's not even,
36:02
SPEAKER_03: I don't even think it's the
36:04
SPEAKER_03: caffeine.
36:04
SPEAKER_03: There are just certain rituals.
36:06
SPEAKER_03: And my ritual is a, I wake up and I don't get out of bed right away.
36:10
SPEAKER_03: I take my thyroid medication.
36:12
SPEAKER_03: I'm not allowed to have my coffee for some period of time.
36:15
SPEAKER_03: And I do not scroll on my phone.
36:17
I wake myself up and I either spend time just quietly breathing
36:22
or I put on a
36:23
SPEAKER_03: meditation,
36:24
SPEAKER_03: but I need that quiet time.
36:26
SPEAKER_03: It's only like 20, 25 minutes.
36:29
SPEAKER_03: The other thing is
36:30
SPEAKER_03: I need to move my body in some way.
36:33
SPEAKER_03: Some days that means a gym.
36:34
SPEAKER_03: Some days it's a walk.
36:36
SPEAKER_03: Some days it might just be like stretching and touching my toes.
36:40
SPEAKER_03: Dina Alvarez, how about for you?
36:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, I have two very polar opposite things that I've come to terms with.
36:48
SPEAKER_00: One is
36:49
SPEAKER_00: Every day I need time alone.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, fully alone, like no one in the house.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: My phone is nowhere near me.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm not even really reading a book.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: I just need to just, I just need quiet time.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't know.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: a toddler, but I just need to be alone.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: I need an hour of time where I don't have to worry about a single thing.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: I just really struggle with the rest of the day if I don't have that.
37:16
And then the polar opposite of that is that I need an hour
37:20
where I talk to my
37:21
sister or I talk to Dina or I meet a neighbor for coffee or I
37:26
run into someone and
37:27
SPEAKER_00: we have like a dialogue because I always feel energized after I do that.
37:32
SPEAKER_01: Same.
37:32
SPEAKER_01: Mommy, we can go for a walk and talk.
37:34
SPEAKER_01: It's my favorite date.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: I like a phone call walk.
37:37
It reminds me of being like 14 and talking to my friends from
37:41
my cordless giant
37:43
SPEAKER_01: phone from my bed.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: It was the best.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: You've both done some really brave stuff in the last few years.
37:48
And one of the things that I think is super interesting is that
37:51
doing brave things
37:52
SPEAKER_01: is not a one and done.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: It's building a threshold.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: Now, probably writing an anthology wouldn't be all that scary.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: Maybe a little scary still, but less scary, certainly.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: So what's the next brave thing on the horizon for you?
38:07
SPEAKER_01: And this time, let's start with you, Dana Alvarez.
38:09
Well,
38:10
I'm really trying to step into more of a public speaking
38:14
comfort zone.
38:15
It's not somewhere that I have felt comfortable,
38:18
but I really do enjoy asking questions.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: So I'd like to lean more into,
38:22
SPEAKER_00: you know,
38:23
SPEAKER_00: moderating or interviewing people one-to-one,
38:27
SPEAKER_00: like,
38:28
SPEAKER_00: you know,
38:28
SPEAKER_00: have a coffee together and share women's stories in that way.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's something that I feel I need to
38:35
get a little more courage for because,
38:37
you know,
38:38
you're really putting yourself out there.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: You're in front of a lot of people.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: It's not been a space that I'm comfortable in, but I'm getting better at.
38:46
And again,
38:46
I thank Dina for that because she's pushed me out of my comfort
38:50
zone.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: So I'd like to continue,
38:52
SPEAKER_00: you know,
38:52
going forward in the public speaking space or interviewing
38:57
other women about their
38:58
SPEAKER_00: lives and telling their stories.
39:00
SPEAKER_01: How wonderful.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: You remind me too of something else that I talked about in my book,
39:04
SPEAKER_01: which is that to do big,
39:06
SPEAKER_01: brave things in midlife,
39:07
SPEAKER_01: we need to find allies and amplifiers.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: And the allies are the people who say, I believe in you, you can do this.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: And the amplifiers are the ones who are like, could you do it this big?
39:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:19
And it sounds like you both have really developed your ally and
39:23
amplifier sets.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: Dina, what's next for you?
39:28
Yeah,
39:28
I just want to say that Dina Alvarez does a phenomenal job when
39:32
she's on stage.
39:33
SPEAKER_03: So even though she feels like she needs to get more courage,
39:36
SPEAKER_03: nobody would know that she has that feeling when she's on stage.
39:39
SPEAKER_03: She's very natural and
39:41
SPEAKER_03: Similarly,
39:41
I want to keep going down this road of advocacy and putting
39:46
myself into rooms where
39:47
SPEAKER_03: maybe five years ago,
39:48
SPEAKER_03: I wasn't so sure I belonged.
39:50
SPEAKER_03: I want to keep showing up and pushing forward.
39:53
SPEAKER_03: What I really love to do, I have no idea how to do this, but
39:57
I can see so many of these stories lending themselves to other
40:01
treatments.
40:01
SPEAKER_03: And I would love to figure out how to make a,
40:05
SPEAKER_03: you know,
40:06
SPEAKER_03: a modern love style Hulu anthology streaming series.
40:11
SPEAKER_03: I have,
40:11
SPEAKER_03: again,
40:12
SPEAKER_03: not really a clue where to start,
40:13
SPEAKER_03: but the more we can push these stories out and show women that,
40:18
SPEAKER_03: yeah,
40:19
SPEAKER_03: there's some shitty stuff that happens at midlife,
40:21
SPEAKER_03: but hey...
40:22
It's a small price to pay for what is possible and for the life
40:28
you can live.
40:29
It scares the hell out of me to think about sitting in a room
40:32
pitching this to
40:32
SPEAKER_03: people who are in a whole other universe.
40:35
But yeah,
40:36
I would like to figure out how the heck to get that done with
40:39
Dina Alvarez,
40:40
of course.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: I was just going to say, we can do it.
40:43
SPEAKER_01: We got this.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to see you both do those things.
40:48
And I can't wait to see what it looks like for you in the
40:51
learning journey to those.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: Each guest nominates another guest.
40:56
And so I'd like to invite each of you to nominate a woman who
41:00
inspires you,
41:02
SPEAKER_01: who you think would inspire us.
41:04
Though,
41:04
like I said,
41:06
the whole book is basically like our podcast in a book form.
41:10
SPEAKER_03: Susan Canoff,
41:12
SPEAKER_03: who wrote an essay called I Wasn't Always a Butterfly,
41:15
SPEAKER_03: really inspires me for so many reasons,
41:18
not the least of which is that she rose out of a very difficult
41:23
young life with a
41:25
SPEAKER_03: lot of adversity.
41:27
And she became a social worker and in the court and she has a
41:32
very strong love of fashion.
41:34
She had social work clients coming into her office and she
41:38
started to dress them.
41:39
SPEAKER_03: because they didn't have money for clothes.
41:40
SPEAKER_03: So she started to style them with her own things.
41:44
And she ultimately turned that into a nonprofit that's now
41:47
serving more than 5,000
41:49
SPEAKER_03: women a year in the greater Boston area.
41:51
SPEAKER_03: It's called Uncommon Threads.
41:53
And in the course of this work,
41:55
and it's incredible to see the work she does.
41:58
And as she's building this,
41:59
she is diagnosed with leukemia,
42:01
with a form of leukemia called CLL.
42:04
SPEAKER_03: And she does not let this stop her in any way.
42:08
SPEAKER_03: I am just very inspired by her driver motivation.
42:11
SPEAKER_03: She is a beautiful connector.
42:13
SPEAKER_03: She brings women together.
42:15
SPEAKER_03: She's an uplifter of the highest degree.
42:18
SPEAKER_03: She champions women.
42:20
And so for those reasons,
42:22
Susan Kanoff is on my list and should be on yours.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: I definitely want to talk to her.
42:29
SPEAKER_01: That is serious uplifter material.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: Dina Alvarez, who would you like to nominate?
42:35
SPEAKER_00: It's so hard to just nominate one, right?
42:38
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm sitting here and I'm thinking,
42:40
SPEAKER_00: oh,
42:40
SPEAKER_00: but there's this woman and this woman and this woman.
42:42
SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I'm going to say Jessica Fine.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: She wrote the book Breathtaking.
42:48
SPEAKER_00: She is a woman who adopted three children from Guatemala.
42:52
She tells a story of losing her daughter when she was 17 to a
42:57
rare genetic disease.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: And her book is amazing.
43:02
SPEAKER_00: Even though it is about death and grief,
43:03
there are moments that you actually laugh and smile as she
43:07
shares the story.
43:09
She's uplifting because she's a woman that didn't let grief
43:12
dictate her life.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: And so she continues to write.
43:16
SPEAKER_00: And for someone who's had so much loss in her life,
43:19
you would think that she would put herself in places unknown
43:23
and not want to deal
43:24
SPEAKER_00: with the world.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: But she's done the complete opposite.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: And to me, she is an uplifter because I think that when you can...
43:31
get through grief like that and show people that you can
43:34
continue to move forward
43:35
and live a life and not let the memory of this person you lost
43:40
be gone and instead
43:42
SPEAKER_00: share it.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: I think that that's just so beautiful.
43:44
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: She sounds amazing.
43:47
And both of you are such uplifters,
43:50
just the love and the admiration you have
43:54
SPEAKER_01: bring to everyone you speak of.
43:59
SPEAKER_01: It makes me just admire each of you more and more.
44:02
One of the things that unites us as uplifters is we love to
44:06
uplift other uplifters.
44:08
SPEAKER_01: So how can we best support you in your work, Dina and Dina?
44:12
SPEAKER_03: Well,
44:12
SPEAKER_03: buy the book,
44:14
SPEAKER_03: share the book with all of the women in your life,
44:16
share it with the younger women so that they move up the ladder
44:21
without fear and
44:23
with a strong sense of possibility and that they look forward
44:27
to getting older.
44:28
SPEAKER_03: You can find us and importantly,
44:30
SPEAKER_03: you can learn about all of our contributors as well on our website.
44:34
SPEAKER_03: There's a link where you can click and learn about all of them.
44:37
SPEAKER_03: And that's just midlifeprivateparks.com.
44:39
SPEAKER_03: And you can find us individually.
44:41
I'm on Instagram at Patina,
44:44
the name of the newsletter,
44:45
Patina underscore life.
44:47
SPEAKER_03: And then on Substack, it's Patina with Dina Aronson.
44:50
SPEAKER_03: And I'm in LinkedIn too.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:52
Dina,
44:52
I just want to say Dina has an amazing blog,
44:55
like lots of great information.
44:57
SPEAKER_00: She has a midlife cheat sheet on there.
44:59
SPEAKER_00: Like definitely go check her out.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: She has an amazing blog.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: And I second everything Dina said.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean,
45:06
SPEAKER_00: you could find me at a few good things at Substack,
45:08
but we'd really love it if you came on to Midlife Private Parts
45:12
and subscribed to
45:13
SPEAKER_00: our newsletter today.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: because that is going to start going out monthly.
45:18
SPEAKER_00: And we're going to have great tidbits of midlife information.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: And we just want to continue connecting with women.
45:24
And we'd love for them to sign up and become part of our
45:27
community and also share
45:29
SPEAKER_00: their stories with us as well.
45:31
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: I'm going to go do that right now because I want all of it.
45:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to see what both of you do next.
45:37
SPEAKER_01: And I'm so grateful for what you've done already.
45:40
And I'm even more grateful that I got to meet you and that we
45:45
got to chat with you today.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
45:47
SPEAKER_01: Likewise.
45:48
SPEAKER_03: Likewise.
45:49
SPEAKER_03: And thank you so much for this opportunity.
45:51
And we're so happy that we met you and we look forward to more
45:55
with you and to
45:56
SPEAKER_03: uplifting together.
45:57
SPEAKER_03: We'll continue.
46:01
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to the Uplifters podcast.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: If you're getting a boost from these episodes,
46:07
please share them with the Uplifters in your life and then join
46:12
us in conversation
46:13
SPEAKER_01: over at theuplifterspodcast.com.
46:16
SPEAKER_01: Head over to Spotify,
46:18
SPEAKER_01: Apple Podcast,
46:19
SPEAKER_01: or wherever you get your podcast and like,
46:22
SPEAKER_01: follow,
46:23
SPEAKER_01: and rate our show.
46:24
It'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll
46:28
ensure you never miss
46:30
SPEAKER_01: one of these beautiful stories.
46:34
SPEAKER_02: Big love.
46:36
SPEAKER_02: Painted water, sunshine, with rosemary and tongue.
46:41
SPEAKER_02: Dwell in the perplexing, though you find it vexing.
46:46
SPEAKER_02: Toss a star and hover.
46:48
SPEAKER_02: Be your own best lover.
46:50
SPEAKER_02: Relish in a new prime.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: Plant a tree in springtime.
46:54
SPEAKER_02: Dance with idle hindsight.
46:57
SPEAKER_02: Bring the sun to twilight.
47:00
SPEAKER_02: lift you up lift you up lift you up lift you up
47:32
SPEAKER_02: Lift you up.
47:34
SPEAKER_02: Beautiful.
47:36
SPEAKER_02: I cried.
47:38
SPEAKER_03: It's that little thing you did with your voice.
47:47
SPEAKER_03: Right?
47:47
SPEAKER_03: In the pre-course, right?
47:52
SPEAKER_02: I was like... Mommy, stop crying.
47:54
SPEAKER_02: You're disturbing the peace.