Latest / Best/Most / Matt Bauer Part 1/ What is the MOST satisfying series finale?
Transcript
- Jose: Welcome to Best Most. I'm your host, Jose Jogo Gonzalez. This is the podcast where we ask the questions, what is the best or what is the most? For example, we ask questions like, what is the best album to wind down at the end of the day? Or what is the most effective world building in a movie or TV show? Before each episode, I ask our online community a question that our guests had chosen as their topic. I then go over the community answers with our guests, we also discuss our own answers. You can check out and answer the questions on best.most.pod on Instagram. Join the conversation. Today we welcome a film director, an editor, and co-founder of a free quarterly film race called Breakneck. you start the show just know this is a series finale episode So there are a few spoilers for Sons of Anarchy Battlestar Galactica Game of Thrones Stranger Things Breaking Bad Barry Wonder Years Ozark and Andor with that being said enjoy the show I'd to welcome to best most, Matthew Bauer. Hey, Matt. Matt: Hey, how's it going? Thank you for having me. Jose: Yeah, thanks for being here. Now as always, our guest chooses the question for the show conversation. ⁓ Our question for this episode what is the most satisfying series finale? Matt Bauer, what made you choose this question? Matt: ⁓ gosh, memory comes to mind was back in college when I went to for a film degree and I asked my professor who's also the admin of the building I said, you ever choose like how to end a show on your own terms? And this was like in the mid aughts This is before you you had the the golden era of television So his immediate response was like no way, know, you don't get a say in the matter, you know and to a strong degree he's not wrong in it but that I think hearing that not only motivated me to maybe one day make a strong show from beginning to end but also appreciate those that do actually end with some grace and dignity you know so I once I saw that one there's at least a couple that come to mind one is a particular favorite but ⁓ you know I'm also very curious to see which one's your favorite as well as well as what other people think too Jose: Yeah, can't wait. get right into What are your answers? Matt: So I have a couple here, Most satisfying series finale so Malcolm recommended Gilmore Girls. ⁓ Apparently they had a reboot not long ago that was ⁓ kind of like a pick up left off and apparently according to her it was a lot more ⁓ fulfilling and satisfying. ⁓ And it almost feels like a cheat. I've ⁓ seen Gilmore Girls on off when it was airing originally growing up. ⁓ like a cheat because like when you come back eventually to pick it up is that the same does that negate how it ended before ⁓ however ⁓ you know ⁓ I did like Dexter growing up even though it had a ending I the the season 9 that they did was a great ending ⁓ but apparently it's not the end because it keeps on going and ⁓ so I guess what do I know ⁓ Jose: Yeah. Well, what's funny about Dexter is that the first episode I was the last episode of ⁓ the show, like the series of the show Matt: ⁓ The original series, not the... ⁓ Okay, gotcha. Yeah. Jose: Yes. Yeah, I went my sister's house ⁓ and they were watching the finale ⁓ and I was just hanging and I watched that whole episode. So that was the first episode of Dexter I've ever watched was the finale. Matt: Mm-hmm. That's wild because what were your initial thoughts of it with zero context? Jose: it was very confusing. Cause I remember there something about a boat ⁓ and it seemed like someone was coming back from the dead or something like that. don't, I couldn't tell you what really happened, But years later, my wife actually, she loves Dexter. So she started like binging it, watching ⁓ it start to finish. I would see little bits and pieces and it kind made sense a little bit more. Matt: I mean it makes sense. My opinion on that season is that like it was good up to the halfway point and then it just it did that thing where in my opinion it kind of some shows do this I guess I don't know whether they feel like the plug is getting pulled and they have only so many episodes to react but to me the quality of the writing just kind of ⁓ it took a very unexpected dip I suppose his partner or ⁓ that he hooks up with and season seven. Are we allowed to go into spoilers? I feel like we are if we're talking about series finales, right? ⁓ okay, gotcha. Jose: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, and I'll do a disclaimer at the beginning of the show too as well. Matt: Yeah, that's right, perfect. Okay, great. Yeah, there was just something about that turning point for me that was like, all right, this just feels like they're trying to rush themselves out the door or whatever. ⁓ But, you know, the show also had some really good seasons along the way though, so I can't not get into Jose: One thing that surprised me about the show and I would watch it with my wife is Matt: that. Jose: humorous it was. There's a lot of dark humor in ⁓ the series finale. It was so serious I get why it was serious. watching it later on, it's a I say goofy show like that sounds negative. It's just a really Matt: Mm-hmm. Jose: show in some weird ways. the poke's fun at itself quite a bit. Matt: Yeah, ⁓ totally. Yeah, the narration of it all and just how it's like this... I mean, I was gonna say dramatic irony. I don't really think that... I don't know if that applies so much. No, there is dramatic irony because you do follow other perspectives and characters. However, that show does at times bug me when it's like you're following... ⁓ Who was the horny detective in that show? ⁓ Where like he had a whole sub arc all on his that just felt so disconnected from everything else. ⁓ Jose: I know. I didn't know it well enough. I know there was the bald detective that was... Okay. They have like memes of that guy too, right? Yeah. Matt: Yeah, yeah, that's the one. Yeah. ⁓ of course, yeah. ⁓ shoot, I wish I'd remember those names. But yeah, no, funny enough though, Dexter was not chosen. But, you know, part of me wonders what the new pickup show was about and whether or not that's getting an ending. They have a prequel also in the works. Jose: Yeah Yeah. Matt: ⁓ I saw a trailer once to it and was Michael C. Hall's the VO, but it just once I saw was like, here's the younger version of the entire cast from the original. was like, ⁓ is this Muppet Babies ⁓ of Dexter? ⁓ don't know. Exactly, the young Sheldon it all. gosh. But yeah. ⁓ Jose: Yeah Young Sheldon of Dexter. Matt: As far as Gilmore Girls ⁓ again, haven't really seen too much it. ⁓ I ⁓ appreciate it for ⁓ it is, ⁓ and apparently reboot finale was good. Jose: I think my only gripe with Gilmore Girls from what watched is the cadence of their dialogue. Matt: Mmm, very sharp. very, fast-paced. Okay, so my wonderful wife Deandra has picked ⁓ as a satisfying series finale. She picked... the original Sabrina the Teenage Witch. Jose: Hmm. any more? Matt: I do have this other one, ⁓ the other one from Malcolm ⁓ called This Is Us. ⁓ This Is again, barely solved, but apparently the showrunner, was told this morning, the showrunner envisioned it being exactly six seasons and managed to get exactly what he wanted out of it at the end, so like. Jose: That's crazy. Matt: Yeah, it's pretty nuts. I don't know how you know like how many seasons something needs to tell your story, but kudos to or her. I don't even know the showrunner. Jose: I just remember that that show is the show that you watch to cry your ass off. Matt: Yeah, yeah, that's the tearjerker. about, do you have any community responses? Jose: okay, let's see. Let's go right into them. ⁓ So Nina, she chose Attack on Titan. ⁓ She said, some people might be mad at that ending, but I found it satisfying. It was pretty realistic. Matt: Are you an Attack on Titan fan? Jose: I'm not a very big anime person, but I know it's amazing because it has so many ⁓ fans. Matt: Alright, well, I will not spoil that last season, because I think the last season's a work of art, in my opinion, having a deep appreciation for everything leading up to it. But, one thing I'm gonna be overtly critical about without spoiling story, is that they, and they started doing this the season prior, which is breaking it up into parts, and I get that they're producing this with a lot of like, high production value. So I understand that like maybe you need to keep people's interests in order to keep funding going for all I know, but what they did was they, in the last season, they tee you up with a very specific narrative. There's some twists and turns along the way. And then that's it. And you're like, what? It's over? And then shortly after it airs, because I'm watching the subs, so like I'm not waiting for the dub months on end, there's an article that drops, I believe, that says, and there's gonna be more episodes, the finale is gonna come through sometime next year. And you're like, wait, what? But I thought this was the end of it. So that was part one of the ending. And then part two of the ending comes, and that's like another 12 or so episodes. And you get to this conclusion, And I'm like, holy cow, this feels so great, but it doesn't feel resolved yet. And then you hear, man, there's gonna be two special feature length episodes left after that. And I'm like, I can't. And so I I gave it a boycott until I knew it was completely done, which I'm glad because then they blue balls you for another six months after that next special came out. ⁓ I like the ending, I like the story. Jose: ⁓ wow. Matt: I do want to give it another watch ⁓ in dub this time or next time just to appreciate the the lore a bit more but great great show great allegory great stuff I love it Jose: Jason Chavez, chose Wonder Years. He said that it was bittersweet, did well, capturing coming age with perspective maturing. I kind of ⁓ shot him a message back. And I thought that ending was actually really, emotional realistic ⁓ and satisfying in the way that I mean, we're going to spoil this anyway, but that he and Winnie hook up, Matt: Yeah. Jose: of were at odds at the beginning of the episode. And then they kind of connect again it's raining and or Matt: Yeah, in the in like a shed or something like that or yeah. Jose: a barn, Matt: ⁓ Jose: I think. And then they're on their way to meet his family something like that. And then. end of it, it's like voiceover and talks about happened after the show. dad dies like years later or something like that, or ⁓ a few months later what it was, but I know it was really kind sad. And then he talks about how Winnie has her family, kids Matt: Yeah. Jose: has his own family and his kids. when I watched it, I thought it was... ⁓ really sad and I didn't like it, and then years later growing up, I can appreciate it a lot more. Matt: and I just remember ⁓ watching that show, ⁓ night reruns that it was like, that his dad was a hard ass and maybe I'm misremembering, but I thought that was a, it was a very simple moment and reinforcing with that. was like, ⁓ man, that's, I gotta call my dad now. ⁓ how he's doing. But yeah, it was a good one. It was a good show. I liked it. Jose: Yes. Yeah, what a good show though. Veronica, chose Breaking Bad. Matt: interesting. Jose: Ricardo Peralta chose, said going old mash. more current, I'll a contrarian and say lost. so Rosa, ⁓ Rosa, she chose Breaking Bad. ⁓ And she said, because it ties everything up in the best way. Matt: Mm-hmm. Jose: Edro DiCarmona, my brother, said, it's a hard one me. I didn't watch a lot TV until my late thirties, maybe Sons of Anarchy because Jax fulfills his dad's legacy the motorcycle club and he gets revenge on those who tried to stop his dad from doing. what he felt was right for the future of the club. Matt: My dad ⁓ was a fan of, Sons of Anarchy. ⁓ So I think he said he liked the ending as that Breaking Bad. ⁓ Jose: Yeah. ⁓ Greg chose, trying to help you out here. ⁓ Greg chose Mayans MC on FX and Hulu. Shout out to FX and Hulu. I'm kidding. I have a friend who worked on Mayans as well. So what's Seth? What up Seth? How's it going? Mayans. Matt: No, gosh. ⁓ I know. Appreciate it. ⁓ ⁓ Nice. ⁓ sick. Jose: Carlos Morales chose, said, hmm, Breaking Bad was amazing, but. Battlestar Galactica was the best ending ever. Matt: I actually, my wife watched Battle Star Galactica sometime last year for the first time and saw the first, I'd say the first few episodes of the first season and I was like, alright, this is cool. didn't really stick with it though. And then she just comes to me like at the end of the second to last episode of the series and she's like, this is insane. There's no way that they could possibly wrap this all up. And then she comes back after watching the last episode and I'm waiting to hear like this hilarious shit storm of how bad it is. And she's like, I think it's one of the greatest things that has ended in such a way it has. And she ends up going into like, Jose: Whoa. Matt: Well, I could really I mean I heard her explain and unravel the drama as it went but not being connected to the characters I really couldn't give you an actual rundown except for the fact that apparently it's the origin of Mormonism ⁓ Or something like that. ⁓ Yeah ⁓ apparently ⁓ set in the past Jose: What? Matt: and ⁓ today's the distant future of that realm and like Jose: ⁓ Matt: Yeah, it seemed very heady and ⁓ I just was not, and I heard it and I'm like, sci-fi can be very wacky and out there. for her suspending her disbelief all the way up to that and being in love with it, I kind of have to take her word for it because that's like the world, the sandbox she's been playing in, I guess. Jose: Yeah. Matt: Quick question though. ⁓ Mayans, ⁓ never watch that. Is that a spin-off of Sons of Anarchy I always, ⁓ it is, okay. Vaguely, I was just curious. Jose: Mm-hmm. It is. Matt: ⁓ But ⁓ I'm glad that had a good finale too. Jose: Yeah, Matt: Awesome. Jose: So Alex Paz, he Stranger Things, ⁓ The Office, New Ruto, and Matt: Which of those have you seen? Jose: I've seen Stranger Things, I've seen The Office, and I've seen Ozark. I've never seen Naruto. Matt: never seen Naruto either but ⁓ Ozark I thought was very interesting ⁓ because it's like the it's almost as if it's a seasonal finale rather than a series finale you know what I mean yeah cuz it's like they're almost stuck in this Jose: Mm-hmm. ⁓ I can see that. Matt: this loop of death. Because I think the showrunners were talking about how like ⁓ their last name Bird is like some sort of symbology of symbolic of death, I think, and where they bring death with them. So the fact that Jose: Hmm. Matt: they don't get out of it, ⁓ and that they are just having to continue doing whatever it is they're going to do. ⁓ At first, I was not really a big fan of it, but it's been growing on me a bit, you know. Jose: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, don't they all kind of embrace their place in ⁓ violence much? ⁓ Matt: Pretty much, yeah. And like with the kid blasting that agent who has been kind of creeping in on the last season, like honing in on the family, trying to get them, pull a hank from Breaking Bad, if you will. And then once you finally get that moment, it just gets resolved real quick. I was a bit let down by that at first, but I think a show like that, for it to be as stressful as it was for so long, like it's a fitting punishment the the bird family. Jose: So let's Matt: Yeah. Jose: see, ⁓ Sam Slick, he said, the most satisfying? ⁓ Freaks and geeks. ⁓ There wasn't some big resolution or clarification. Every character was a little scattered from where they started the show. It was ⁓ a refreshingly realistic portrayal of growing up. And although we only got one season of the show, it was incredible and I'm glad it ended before it lost magic. ⁓ Most shows run too long. If Stranger Things had finished after one season, it would be legendary. ⁓ it has dragged on way too long and lost any connection humanity. Before I spend too much time bashing how bad Stranger Things became, I'll end by advocating that you go watch Freaks and again. Matt: ⁓ that's very, backhanded, sweet, ⁓ bittersweet. Jose: haha Matt: I have only seen a few episodes freaking so I'd consider seeing that. Though, I did see Stranger Things. I, I can't disagree with them. I can't with It was... ⁓ I was disappointed but like not in the way that like I didn't see it coming. I felt like it was I have more so griped with the last season because it just felt overall so unearned. I thought the fourth season was ⁓ had some fun twists and turns and then they tee up season five and then season five comes around and I feel like it's literally just this ⁓ cycle of like characters grab objects, they portray the story, what it is and what they have to do next and then they go walk over there to the next ⁓ place that they gotta go to and then they have a meanwhile back at the ranch effect and then you cut to these other characters while they talk about their personal feelings. and their inner struggles that they gotta convey because they need to have character development, I guess. I mean, that's the only thing that's left of it. Though I will say, there was like one or two cool sceneries and a cool revelation. Like, knowing that the upside down is more of a wormhole, I thought that was creative. Jose: Mm-hmm. That's cool. Matt: Yeah, and then how they had a room that was kind of like... Breaking the rules of logic and like melting in some ways, but like not hot. I don't know ⁓ Beyond that though. I mean, did you did you finish stranger things? Jose: Yeah. liked the series finale. The actual series finale I enjoyed. I will say that that okay me. Matt: Yeah. Jose: did really like when they got into the whole ⁓ Freddy Krueger-esque it all. Matt: ⁓ what do mean? Which part? Jose: main villain Vecna Matt: ⁓ yeah, Vecna. I thought Vecna was a well-crafted character in season four. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jose: Oh yeah, but it was very Freddy Krueger like, right? Before that, I felt that it was gonna be a little bit redundant, I'm glad that happened so that it would bring more life to the show. Matt: Yeah. Jose: But I think the last season kind of dragged on and it felt tacked on. And at the end of I liked the season finale. I thought it was really touching. Of course you, don't want to give, I guess I don't want to give too much away because it's pretty, Matt: It's fresh-ish, I guess, right? Yeah, that's fair. ⁓ Did I? Jose: it's really new. Yeah, for sure. But I did, I didn't enjoy it. I didn't enjoy the last season, but I enjoyed the season, the actual episode of the series finale. Matt: Sure, that's actually kind of how it fell about Game of Thrones. Did you watch that one? Yeah, like there's some... Well, no, I could tell you are. Jose: I did. So wait, you enjoyed the series finale? I mean, I'm not judging by the way. No, no, not at all. Matt: my, no, I'm just teasing. the background of like... waiting until the year before the last season came out to like just binge watch through all seven seasons that were out so I don't have as much invested ⁓ for that exact reason I just didn't want years of expectations put onto these characters had a fun ride though seasons one through seven and then you get up to episode three of the last season the the battle of winter fell and it's just There's just so much squandered potential I think in terms of scope I think the battle and the execution and the spectacle of it had its moments But there clearly was so much like broken logic in what followed afterwards ⁓ And like how it came about to the very last episode while the last episode itself didn't bother me per se just how they got there felt a bit lazy and a bit like they just not thought out and ⁓ They're clearly never going to write that wrong, but I don't think it's ever like held up as an IP ever since then. Jose: they would have had to build it up a little bit more for her to have that payoff of losing her shit at the end. Matt: Absolutely. Jose: I'm glad, ⁓ it's kind of weird. I'm in the minority of people who ⁓ liked her ending in a way. I just would have wanted it to build a little bit more. I think that's about it. Matt: Mm-hmm. by her you mean the protagonist gone ⁓ Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah, ⁓ can see that. Jose: Yes. Yeah. And I also like someone I was talking to my coworker, Nina, the other day, she was talking about how she didn't really like Jon Snow's ending. I thought it was I thought it was OK. I mean, at the end of the day, he kind of could do whatever he wanted anyway. Like, they're like, hey, wink, wink. You have to stay here. Wink, wink. And then he just kind of takes off anyway. Matt: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love those are the memes. was like, it's like a still the port as the ships, the death rocky ships fly off or whatever or sail off. And then Sansa's like, lol, you could stand up now. They're gone. Yeah. Jose: Exactly. Matt: there's some frustrations to it, but I can't, can't be like overly critical because I didn't put eight years of connections to those characters. And I have to respect that. Jose: Yeah, maybe I'm the same because we did the same thing. ⁓ We binged it, whole thing. So didn't have to wait Matt: ⁓ nice, okay. Jose: ⁓ every week to watch it. just watched the whole thing right away. Matt: That's smart. Jose: okay. So let's go into your pick. What do you got? Matt: Well, I, ⁓ so I have, I'm gonna cheat and say I two, but one did recently come up ⁓ as of a couple days ago while with my wife about it. And I'm just gonna call it an honorable mention. ⁓ okay, great. ⁓ Jose: I have three, so you're good. Matt: Barry, you seen Barry? Jose: Yeah, I've seen Barry. I liked it lot. Matt: I liked it a lot. did not expect to like it as much as I did. when I was thinking about actually she mentioned it and I was just like, oh, wow. You know, and I was just like, this is, the characters are very well, they all have a bit of like a journey and the amount of time skips that happened in the last season are very, they catch you off guard. Jose: Mm-hmm. Matt: but they're intriguing as opposed to like feeling these ⁓ cheap shots out of nowhere. ⁓ And they make me want to like wonder else is like ⁓ still alive or like what they're up to. just ⁓ the turn it took, ⁓ I think, which to me was like the most noticeable ⁓ starting season three when Barry starts hallucinating holes ⁓ in people's heads while talking to him. Do you remember that? Jose: it when it was on years ago, so yeah. Matt: Sure, okay that's fair. Well, I mean, moment he starts doing that, I think that was the telltale for me to be like, ⁓ wow, this show's like ⁓ really grim, really fast now. ⁓ And kind of, ⁓ and it earned, I suppose. ⁓ I like that a lot. And I think every direction and twist and they took it in the last season was just so, Jose: Mm-hmm. Matt: so unexpectedly great. ⁓ Jose: I really enjoyed Barry. Big reason is it didn't really any punches. Matt: It didn't. Jose: it surprised you lot. It surprised a lot. ⁓ And there's still comedy, but It didn't dictate where the was going to too much. Matt: Yeah. Jose: If that makes sense. Matt: No, totally. It's like that show someone mentioned earlier, Breaking Bad, I think it likes to be a comedy. ⁓ It tries to, it doesn't try, it just likes to find a balance, I suppose. ⁓ But it knows what it is at the end of the day. Barry absolutely is ⁓ it starts more lighthearted in season one, of course. ⁓ And... ⁓ having these ⁓ hilarious situations such as like in season two where he was about to be murdered ⁓ by by no ho Hank only to then be recruited by no ho Hank to train his people and then only just for that him to at the end of it kill all of those people while trying to go after somebody else and the journey it takes there even in season three with what's ⁓ what's his his scum bag partner's name. you remember? Jose: I don't remember his name, but I know who you're talking about. Matt: Yeah, like his character journey that he goes on in season three in particular is hilarious. ⁓ Especially when he just like has so many opportunities to get away and like he actually embraces the life of tranquility. And then just one thing just sets him off and he's like, nope, I gotta go ruin Barry's now. ⁓ And the fact that it happens after getting shot down by the people you sent off to go kill him as well. ⁓ that's not good enough. And the fact that his character fully reconciles with his life once he's forced and left in jail for what eight years I think it is Jose: Yeah. I like how characters can't escape themselves. Yeah, Barry can't escape himself. He moves very far away with his wife and his kid and he just, it's still in him. He's still a murderer. He's still a killer. And same thing with Noho Hank and his lover or partner. They're all like, Matt: They can't. You're right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jose: horrible people and I like that the show doesn't take that away from them. just, it shows what happens in time and I think that's great. Matt: I agree. agree. Jose: I really also enjoy ⁓ Henry Winkler's character too as well. That guy goes through so much shit. ⁓ my God. Matt: Yeah, he is so well written. And I mean, and yeah, absolutely. He knocks it out of the park. Jose: Well acted, amazing. Matt: he ⁓ does embrace the of it all you think he's ⁓ be just like your average Hollywood grifter, you until it's it comes to his doorstep, all the all the bullshit and ⁓ I just remember it was like at the top of season three where Barry is like if you say anything, I'm gonna kill your family right here in front of you. And then he's like, do you love me? And I was just like, ⁓ my God, like Barry's unhinged. And now I'm really very curious to see what, ⁓ man, all these names, even though the finale, I love it. Like a lot of these names are escaping me except Noho, Hike, and Barry, but well performed, well portrayed. Jose: Yeah. Yeah. Matt: What about you? Do you have a, ⁓ you said you have three. What's one of them? Jose: Okay, let's do it. We'll go back and forth. Matt: Okay. Yeah. Jose: My honorable mention is dogs. have you seen that? Matt: I saw it, I got halfway through the first season and I just fell off it. I really did want to get into it. I think there was something about, something about the pacing of it, guess, ⁓ that like ⁓ it was screaming like Atlanta vibes, ⁓ which another good show Jose: ⁓ yeah. Matt: that I did see the completion and I like. that it seems to somewhat draw parallels to that like anthology spirit where each episode is kind of like a, you know, day in the life and everything. ⁓ But I just thought it just didn't grip me, unfortunately, Jose: Yeah. So I did write show is underrated, hilarious, heartbreaking, and gives insight to life on the res. seen a comedy drama that had indigenous people in the forefront. It was beautifully done with respect for the characters. It was created by Sterlin Harjo and Taika Waititi. the DB summary says comedy series about four Native American teenagers growing up on a reservation in Eastern Oklahoma. So watched whole show and to me that series finale really just paid off in such an emotion. Yeah, in such an emotional way, Matt: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jose: which is strange for like ⁓ a comedy to be so. ⁓ beautifully done and also so vulnerable in a lot of ways. I'm not going to really say what happens at the end, but I remember watching it by myself because Rosa was my wife Rosa was working or doing something Matt: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Jose: watching the show, I ended up like just weeping at the end. And I'm not quite a weeper. Matt: Wow. Jose: ⁓ Granted, was ⁓ fairly close to when my stepdad passed, but I just like, all this emotion just came over me. But it was such a beautiful ending that I, yeah, to me it was like such a perfect moment watching that show. So mean, I'm not sure if it's an amazing ending really, or if it was that moment was perfect to accept and take in that ending. So Matt: Sure. Yeah. Wow. Jose: I definitely recommend it. was my runner-up. ⁓ Matt: gonna make a to actually finish that one. a of a I will say I I always the approach of it and I'm always a fan of like Give me give me some you know, give me ⁓ let's get some real diversity up here in terms of like the type of stories we're telling as well, so ⁓ And ⁓ I that it has that ⁓ Jose: ⁓ yeah. Matt: It has all that heritage to it that apparently created something spectacular at the end. Jose: So what is ⁓ your main pick or do you have another runner up or anything like that? Matt: boy. ⁓ I got one for you. ⁓ gonna go with... Jose: All right. Matt: I'll talk about one, but then I'll just throw ⁓ more at you real fast. about that? Okay. Cowboy Bebop is a great show. ⁓ ⁓ it is ⁓ anime, not the Netflix show. Jose: Okay, yeah. Mm-hmm. Matt: good strong ending. Samurai Shounplu, a fun show that when it comes to a conclusion, like, ⁓ man, that was really fun. Neon Genesis, Evangelion. So if anyone's watching and they're ⁓ the premise ⁓ Neon Genesis Evangelion, is like a future where these angelic are coming down end humanity, we'll say the most simplistic and our hope as humanity these teenagers that have ⁓ pretty much Pilot to fight the monsters and just gets really dark It gets really ⁓ psychological ⁓ philosophical a lot of pain And if you do watch it though, there's also a movie called The of Evangelion that was made in response to how the last two episodes were. If you ⁓ were to go about it, my opinion's gonna be ⁓ skip the last two episodes, just watch of Evangelion in their stead. Hardcore fans ⁓ may disagree with me on that. But if you want to do both, do both, but you need to end it with End of Evangelion. That's all I'm saying. is one of the greatest animated films of all time. And Avatar, The Last Airbender, great show for getting an end, and it's a satisfying end. Yeah, They're just great shows. Jose: Heck yeah. Well, mean, someone is probably listening that is really into it. So cool. Thank you for doing that. Matt: Yeah, yeah. Oh, of course. all right, well, let's do your number two. Jose: I had another one. I'm just going to say it really quick, I don't really it doesn't really need to go to it too much into it. Righteous Gemstones was another honorable mention. ⁓ I just thought the ending was great. Matt: Ooh, okay. Jose: hilarious show about family, megachurch, ⁓ evangelicals and the people in their bubble ⁓ makes fun of hypocrisy of these Christian leaders, coveting money with such indulgence pretty much. I really like the ending because everyone seemed more connected than they were throughout the whole all the seasons. Also, everyone just had a happy ending. I'm a sucker for it. So yeah. Matt: Yeah, ⁓ that's nice. I saw like an episode or two from season one. It's ⁓ interesting you that everyone gets a happy ending at the end of it, because just imagine it's ⁓ grifters getting what they deserve type thing, but I assume there's, no? Okay. Jose: Not necessarily. it's just they connect as a a little bit more Matt: okay. Jose: the whole, season, every episode, the siblings are all the time. They don't give their father kind of closure to their mother's They're very people for the most part, but the end. they kind of are a little bit more selfless And I think that's really cool. Matt: That is nice. Okay, well, I'm gonna add that to the list too then, because I'm a huge John Goodman fan and Danny McBride. Yeah. Jose: He's great. I will say there is male nudity in the show, so if you're cool with it, check it out. ⁓ Matt: I've seen myself in a mirror, I can't be that embarrassed. Jose: I haven't seen myself. ⁓ my main pick is Andor. Have you watched that show? Matt: ⁓ my god, yes. I can't believe I didn't think of that myself. Please, a professor loved to Andor, as will I in turn. Jose: Ha So loved how the end of Andor ended literally where Rogue One, a Star Wars story starts. seamless, almost sad because you follow Caspian throughout Andor, already knowing his outcome. It enhances Rogue One in every way. Also makes Caspian much more prominent in Rogue One because you know so much about his journey. ⁓ I watched Rogue One before Andor and then right after Andor and it hit harder and very differently. Matt: So you said you watched Rogue One before Andor, like just before diving into it? Jose: Yes. Matt: now I've seen Rogue One when it came out in theaters, and then I was like, wanna, ⁓ just wanna see how it feels going from this to, ⁓ from the last episode of Andor to Rogue I have to admit, Jose: Same. Matt: mean... ⁓ There's just such a disnification that's in Rogue One when comparing it to something as bleak as Andor. Like Andor is a masterclass ⁓ in narrative storytelling in my opinion. think it is, ⁓ I'd it's like that and the first season of Mandalorian that has redeemed the Disney acquisition of Star And that is a lot of flops. ⁓ Jose: I agree. Matt: To do that, but that said Rogue One and I understand that you know that being their second release under the Disney brand They wanted to like, you know make it feel a little more, you know whimsical whether it's like lightening up the score or something like that But I felt like there's that tonal compared to and or then again if you were to watch what falls right after that which is a new hope that is obviously far more whimsical and and swashbuckling so like Jose: Yeah. Matt: in that weird sense it's like I can't attack it because up till now Rogue One was like my favorite thing but yeah man I just remember ⁓ what Tony Gilroy I think is the of Andor. He mentioned that at the end of season one ⁓ wanted to do five seasons at one point, but by the time they finished producing season one ⁓ think they also had to navigate the pandemic ⁓ I think because it was such a cost expensive thing that like ⁓ was kind of like done financing it and I think Tony Gilroy expressed the sentiment of like I don't think I have four more seasons of this in me as well ⁓ ⁓ enough all the time jumps they do in season two ⁓ are just, they're just so foreboding as you get closer and closer to that ticking clock of like how this is gonna wrap up. Jose: Mm-hmm. I agree as far as ⁓ bleak ⁓ show is compared to the movie. it's said swashbuckling. that's a perfect way to put ⁓ It's almost kind of like and Indiana in a way ⁓ like, kid, you know, that kind of stuff. Matt: Yeah, totally. Jose: But but yeah, the show ⁓ super And especially that second season, ⁓ my God. yeah, just, but I did exactly the same thing you did though. I fully watch Rogue One to be honest, after Andor. I did watch the beginning of Rogue One and that handoff to me was like seamless. Yeah. Matt: Yeah. Yeah. yeah, okay. I mean the open is pretty dark, so I guess that part of it's fine. I think it was just like when in the two thirds of Rogue One, when Caspian was like, we did a lot of bad things. I'm like in my mind, I'm like, they don't know what the hell they did. And that's like my big gripe with shows like Yellow Jacket, where like, have you seen that show? Jose: Thanks I have, yeah. Matt: So like I fell off it at by the end of season two but like I was already kind of done after the pilot because in the adult years they're like we did some really messed up stuff and I'm thinking these actors don't know because these writers don't know and so it just doesn't always connect in that regard but at least with Andor we do see a very well crafted ⁓ Jose: Ha Matt: journey that Cassian goes through that like from from the moment in season one where he's arrested at the beach And ⁓ my god that prison arc that's there It's so masterfully done and he's circus. ⁓ my god. I can't swim. I was like That just broke my heart Jose: Andy Circus ⁓ yeah. I remember watching that episode with my mouth just open like, no. Matt: Yeah. And the fact that he's overcoming, circus that is, his character, is overcoming such a fear. Because it's more than just thinking, if he plays by the rules, he won't ever drown, knowing Fullwell is surrounded by water. But the fact that he finds this courage that you would otherwise just maybe assume that he's just a selfish grunt or whatever. I mean, in some ways he is, but I just think that was a wonderful example of how to do I don't know how to make a motivating character that doesn't have to be like a Jedi Qui-Gon Jinn all the time, you ⁓ But ⁓ my gosh, the Gorman arc in season two where you're just gradually seeing the whole planet just turn into chaos. was... ⁓ was hell heavy. So good. Jose: Yeah. So let's go into yours. What's your main pick? Matt: My main pick, surprise surprise, is Breaking Bad. And, hold on one Jose: So audience, I actually knew his main pick. This is the first time where I didn't go into it cold. So I was telling the audience that I did know this one. I knew, yeah, you told me. Just because it was the first time I've gone in Matt: I should have had this. All right. Jose: or knowing. So yeah, this is interesting. Matt: Yeah, I feel like the, like you said, the structure may have fallen apart if you didn't know prior, I suppose. ⁓ But ⁓ yeah, so I am one of these guys who's bought the barrel. I'm that dedicated to this thing. It's so freaking good. Yes. Jose: ⁓ yeah. ⁓ my god. So can you describe what you're holding up right now? Matt: Thank you, I'm terrible with that with audio shows. So I've got right here a collector's edition of Breaking Bad. ⁓ It's a Blu-ray collection that has, it's in the shape of a black barrel ⁓ in spirit of the ⁓ show where they put all their pesky ⁓ antagonists and protagonists in which they have each season has like a symbol that ⁓ is connected to the show. So in the first season, it's the falling pants and they're all like separated. and ⁓ collected within these little magnetic, like, plexiglass strips. So this one, and when you take them apart, they create an object. So, like, you're seeing a piece of the bear here from season two. ⁓ This thing is beautiful. I got it. Please look it up. Yeah, it was something I sorely regret. I didn't have the money at the time when I... Jose: Look this up audience. Like this is actually really impressive. I've never seen anything like that Matt: I gotta get one more thing now, hold on. Jose: Audience is getting one more thing. Matt: It's in storage, but otherwise I did pick up one the last season premiered a DVD copy of it signed by the cast at a book selling or whatever. Yeah, if I had the money, I would have got the barrel then and haven't signed that, which would have been cooler. But the reason I'm that obsessed about it is because Jose: Whoa, that's cool. Matt: it is ⁓ a show that has a little bit of a slow beginning, it's there to set the foundation. You've seen Breaking Bad, right? Jose: ⁓ yeah, like I've watched the whole thing, I want to say twice as a whole, right? Matt: Nice. Jose: And then ⁓ I've watched episodes here and and it's one of those shows that you, if you start watching the episode, you have finish it. Matt: Oh, 100%. Each one is so wonderfully crafted conveying tension drama. It's the greatest thriller. That also sprinkles in some really fun comedy when it gets the chance. But it's just such a wild ride that... is not only just crafted by a brilliant team of writers, but also the circumstances that we're able to take it as far as it could. It was there for me when I was going through a breakup that first season. I actually binge watched the whole first season in one night with some friends. Yeah, not really expecting much of it, but like it was a pretty strong first season and it was only seven, Jose: ⁓ well. Matt: I think seven episodes. And that was because there was ⁓ the first extenuating circumstance was that ⁓ there was a writer's strike going on. Jose: Hmm. Matt: and I think it was like the 07, 08 writer's strike, which not only helped them cut the season short and kind of like reformulate what they wanted to do, it also saved them from making the terrible decision of killing Pinkman, was part of the agenda. Are you familiar with the story? Jose: I've never heard that story Matt: So there's a color scheme that goes on in the show and a lot of it is like thematic and symbolic. So for instance, when someone's wearing green, there's an act of greed happening. ⁓ When someone's wearing a color pink, that means somebody's gonna die. Jesse's last name is Pinkman. So he's always been on the chopping block for the writers, ⁓ which they, and they joke to him. ⁓ Vince has joked on the record to Aaron Paul about how like, you know, our biggest mistake was not killing you when we did and fortunately it worked. Even though they wanted to axe him originally, I think he was a wonderful ⁓ counterweight to like just the serious demeanor that Waltz was gonna go down. I think the original ending would have been like, I don't think Vince Gilligan, like he wanted Walter White to become how he phrases it, he wants to turn ⁓ Mr. Chips into Mr. Scarface and just transform this character and bring him down such a dark path of ⁓ irredeemable heinous activity. So he was originally, I think, gonna ⁓ have a confrontation with Tuco by the end of season which would have been the which would have involved ⁓ his son dying. It seemed really silly. how he pitched it, but like another extenuating circumstance was that like ⁓ the actor who played Tuco, whose name I can't remember, wanted to distance himself from the show, because I don't think he was getting a lot of good at the time, so ⁓ they ended up writing him out. Jose: ⁓ wow. Matt: and they eventually took the characteristics, not the characteristics of Tuco, but they wanted to take that monolith of like this villain that pushes Walt to become darker and eventually put him into Gustavo Fring, who not only was a fantastic antagonist to the series, but also if the show didn't get renewed for a fifth season, which was definitely something that was... in talks of whether or not it was even going to go past season four, he would have been like the ultimate villain to wrap that up because Walt would have made his transformation by the end of season four to the guy who's willing to poison a kid in order to kill his adversaries. remember in the start of the last season the back half and you see Walt like you you were seeing it the last season Walter White a year or two years ahead of where we are in the timeline and he's just such a haggard mess. And you think, oh, you're going to get to where he is by the end of the season. And then it just kind of ends halfway in. It pick up again. You realize, oh, his house is in shambles. And you're like, what's going to happen here? And so it's just so heavy on the heart thinking like, you just want it all to, you want it all to just be wrapped up with a bow. Jose: Yeah. Matt: You had this great montage where he's just making money hand over fist. He has a storage unit full of money. Let's just call it a day, you know? And just because Hank finds that thing in the bathroom and then that just snowballs. But next thing you know, neo-Nazis are having a shootout and killing his near and dear family. And then it just... It was spectacular. I'm not as eloquent with you with this. I didn't have anything prepared. I'm just kind of bleeding my heart onto this and... ⁓ Jose: No, it was great. that finale, and I'm not getting too much into it because I believe I had spoken on it in previous episodes So I'm glad I'm hearing how you felt about it. ⁓ yeah, that show. ⁓ Matt: Mm-hmm. Jose: It's such a well-written show, but at the end of the day, the finale itself was just... Someone had mentioned that it was a safe finale. played it safe. I don't think so. I really don't... I didn't catch that from it. Matt: So ⁓ in what ways would you say it was risque or controversial? Jose: What I think, I wouldn't say it's super controversial. in the finale alone, I mean, you kind of know he might die or he's gonna get arrested ⁓ I think what I really ⁓ liked about the episode, I wouldn't say it's controversial, is that he was very self-aware Matt: Yeah. Jose: everything he did and everyone he hurt. And I thought that was kind of beautiful. ⁓ Yeah, I don't know. guess it wasn't really controversial. But I still wouldn't say it's playing and safe. I think it was well thought out and it was probably giving the fans what they wanted to certain extent. Although I kind of wonder if they they knew about the plans that they had for Jesse Pinkman in El Camino ⁓ or if they were just like, hey, just like leave him, you know, ⁓ on the road crying, sobbing. But ⁓ Matt: Mmm. Yeah. Jose: But yeah, I don't know, I kind of wonder about that. ⁓ I think that's not really playing it safe as far as just kind of like leaving a loose end with Jesse Pinkman. Unless they already knew that they were gonna do Al Camino. What do think? Matt: Well, I don't know if El Camino was always in store. I don't know too much about its development process, but ⁓ a couple things were brought to my attention, shout out to Peter Cromwell, by the way, who brought up a lot of the symbology to me while the last season was airing. But that and just like all the Reddit forms out there that show you through the amazing cinematography of... ⁓ Michael something. ⁓ forgetting the name, but Please correct me in the comments. I suppose ⁓ but there's something about Jesse Pinkman, where he's, sure, you could see him driving a car every once in a while, but there's pivotal moments where he's always ⁓ riding shotgun, where he's being taken around, for instance, in season four, when Mike, which ⁓ is my favorite character of the whole series, he ends up taking out to do pickups, ⁓ I think, for ⁓ the drug stashes in like, set him up to kind of manipulate him a bit into thinking he's like a hero and doing a good job or whatever. In season five, he is ⁓ taken away to actually also at the top of season three, Walt drives him home ⁓ from the clinic ⁓ after. ⁓ I guess, just losing his mind on the after the loss of Jane. And in the last season, though, when he's about to burn down Walt's house, he's escorted away and put into the car by who's just driving him off and kind taking around. And so ⁓ I think that's supposed to convey how he he lacks ⁓ a free will and ⁓ to break away from the chains of these ⁓ terrible choices that he makes, I guess. ⁓ seeing him in the driver's seat, I thought was a a very fitting end Jose: Hmm. Matt: as he goes off into oblivion while screaming ⁓ for passion and freedom. get that it's nice to see him... ⁓ The idea of El Camino feels like it's a fun get out of Dodge story it just felt like it was 30 minutes or it could have been just one episode. It didn't need to be two hours long. ⁓ Jose: Yeah, I could see that. Matt: Could've be truncated. ⁓ There was one other thing I wanted. ⁓ yeah. So someone pointed out to me and maybe this was by a deliberate choice of the writers is that ⁓ the neo-Nazis, Uncle Jack ⁓ and Todd, they're almost like these reflections, these bizarre versions of Walt and Jesse. So I've been told, which... ⁓ Jose: ⁓ I can see that. Matt: Yeah, and after defeating what is supposed to be the Jesse James, I guess, of this show, ⁓ seeing that they, in a weird way, had nowhere to go but down as they ended up facing the manifestation of their inner demons. And it's great that you mentioned that Walter is so Jose: Mm-hmm. Matt: distant from where his head was at ⁓ up the shootout two episodes prior that for him to be able to see everything for what is ⁓ and to see not only the flaw in the characters, but also the flaw of himself, ⁓ I almost feels like that's the only way to defeat these inner demons in a sense. piggybacking off of you there, but yeah. Jose: Yeah. I I kind of really enjoyed aspect of it because especially he visits Skyler and he kind of creates that closure between the two. Although I kind of hoped that he would talk to Phoenix or whatever that kid's name is. ⁓ Is that his name? Phoenix? ⁓ Yeah, Flynn. Fuck Flynn, yeah. ⁓ Matt: Yeah. ⁓ Flynn, I think it was? Yeah. Phoenix is cooler though, I kinda like Phoenix. Jose: I would have hoped that he would have talked to Flynn and had some kind of moment with him because but it makes sense that his son would just be kind of like, you know, fuck you, dad, at that time. Matt: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Fun fact, I did meet him once at a bar, RJ Mitte really nice guy. Yeah, just the most charming dude you could imagine. ⁓ Yeah, yeah he is. The fact that, Jose: ⁓ cool. He seems like you'd be. Matt: going back to that last scene where he's like getting off the bus and making his way back indoors, gosh, like the fact that... throughout the entire series, Jesse and Flynn never interact. I thought that almost ⁓ made that last shot even more tragic because Walt doesn't even go to him. He doesn't even acknowledge him. And you just see his reflection as just kind of fading away. And meanwhile, he saves Jesse's life and gives him freedom. ⁓ Jose: Hmm. Yeah, wow, I think about that. Yeah, great pick. mean, yeah, it's a great show, great ending. It's probably, think, one of the most perfect endings, to be honest, for my opinion. I just didn't want to choose it because I knew you chose it. So. Matt: Yeah. That's fair, that's fair. But you did choose a great one. ⁓ And or is certainly up there, is one of the greatest shows ever, which yeah, so great, picks on your end. Jose: ⁓ Perfect. Well, that has been our episode. Matt, thanks for being on Best Most. Matt will be joining us next week when we answer the question, what is the most iconic movie? Matt, would you like to anything or give any shout outs? Matt: you know what? I am going to plug a little ⁓ project that we've been, me and my friends, shout out to Zach Jumper and Steve Craig, ⁓ running for a while. It's called the Breakneck Film Race. If you're a filmmaker who ⁓ needs a reason to practice the craft, if nothing else, we do it quarterly, our next race, which... I guess by the time this goes, it would have been announced. It's ⁓ going to be June 8th to the 14th. There's no fees to sign up. There's no prizes except the ability to hop on a call with us afterwards. We have a virtual watch party and we like to just kind of like show and tell with everybody. It's a lot of fun and we'd love to see whatever films you want to make. And if you happen to live in the Long Island area, there is a fun little screening event in store, I'll let those people talk more on. But ⁓ yeah, it's called Breakneck Film Race. ⁓ YouTube, it's at Breakneck Film Race, same with IG. yeah, ⁓ thanks for having me, Jose. I really appreciate it. Jose: Yeah, man. So let's see. Thank you to everyone who answered our questions and also thank you for listening. If you're listening and want to know where to find the questions for future episodes, add best.most.pod on Instagram. Also rate, like, comment, subscribe. I truly appreciate it. And remember, there are no guilty pleasures when it comes to music, movies and all art preferences. Love what you love. Enjoy what you enjoy. That connection is such a gift. And until next time, take care and take care of each other. Bye. Matt: Ciao!