Latest / Voyage Clinics Podcast / 7 Decades in Medicine | Lessons on Curiosity and Longevity from Dr. David Barnes

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7 Decades in Medicine | Lessons on Curiosity and Longevity from Dr. David Barnes · Voyage Clinics Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Boyage Clinton's podcast. I'm your host, doctor
0:12
Speaker 1: John Sanders, family physician and friend of the community. Our
0:15
Speaker 1: podcast is designed to help our community learn and grow
0:19
Speaker 1: and flourish. Today, I have a special guest, doctor David Barnes.
0:23
Speaker 1: He is a family doc like me, and he's an
0:27
Speaker 1: avid runner and an health enthusiast. He's written several books
0:30
Speaker 1: and yeah, welcome to the podcast, doctor Barnes.
0:34
Speaker 2: Thank you, John, It's been a pleasure. I'm honored to
0:37
Speaker 2: be on your show.
0:38
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you. Tell us a little bit about your
0:42
Speaker 1: journey into medicine.
0:44
Speaker 2: If you'll share with this your age.
0:45
Speaker 1: I love this. We met at a conference not long
0:48
Speaker 1: ago up in Ogden area, and I was just so
0:51
Speaker 1: impressed at some of your comments that you had made
0:54
Speaker 1: after some speakers and things, and I thought I would
0:57
Speaker 1: just approach you and ask you to be on our podcast.
0:59
Speaker 1: So thank you for joining us. I know it's a drive,
1:01
Speaker 1: but I really appreciate you coming down and tell us
1:04
Speaker 1: a little bit about yourself.
1:06
Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad to get the invitation. You know, it
1:09
Speaker 2: was wonderful on that Dres Medical Surgical Annual Clinical Meeting
1:15
Speaker 2: that they had a lot of good discussions, and it
1:19
Speaker 2: was mostly for physicians, I think. And the big question is,
1:23
Speaker 2: I'll stop right at the very beginning. How did I
1:26
Speaker 2: get into medicine? Right? And he started at the age
1:28
Speaker 2: of eleven. I had this sore throat and my mother
1:32
Speaker 2: got a house visit. This is goods way back, you see,
1:35
Speaker 2: I said, the dot comes search of the house, and
1:38
Speaker 2: by this time I've got a really sore throat and
1:41
Speaker 2: high temperature and it gives me an injection in the butt,
1:44
Speaker 2: and a couple of days later and better, I said,
1:47
Speaker 2: this is magic. I'm let's learn some more. Well, I
1:51
Speaker 2: kind of kept it back my mind, and then when
1:54
Speaker 2: I was seventeen, I read an autobiography from a general surgeon. Actually, yes,
2:01
Speaker 2: I can still remember the name. They come by appointment,
2:04
Speaker 2: which is very apt because we will get patients by appointment.
2:08
Speaker 2: And this inspired me and convinced me, Yes, I'm going
2:12
Speaker 2: to go into medicine for this, and I'm so glad
2:15
Speaker 2: I did so. I started off in London, and I'll
2:22
Speaker 2: just add an aside, I'm a survivor of the London Blitz,
2:25
Speaker 2: so that'll give you a little clue to my age.
2:30
Speaker 2: I did my undergraduate at King's college in London, the
2:34
Speaker 2: University of London, and then I did my med school
2:37
Speaker 2: at the Royal College of Surgeons and I just loved
2:43
Speaker 2: family practice, and I went to join the British Army.
2:48
Speaker 2: Actually the Royal Army Medical Corps is called the RIMC.
2:54
Speaker 2: Famous people called it RIMC. And they sent me around
2:58
Speaker 2: the planet from London to Scandinavia, to Cyprus, to Singapore
3:05
Speaker 2: for two years after having two years in Germany, then
3:09
Speaker 2: up to Thaimland. Now if you can imagine the globe,
3:11
Speaker 2: you're actually going around the globe in an easterly direction
3:14
Speaker 2: to thaimand to Bangkok. And one day after I had
3:20
Speaker 2: finished my training, I joined the American Army. When my
3:24
Speaker 2: wife and I at that time were unsure what we
3:27
Speaker 2: wanted to do, and so we after I finished UC
3:32
Speaker 2: Berkeley and also the State University of New York, they said, well,
3:37
Speaker 2: how would you write to go to Hawaii. I said,
3:40
Speaker 2: you're armed. So we took off. For three years, I
3:44
Speaker 2: was a professor at the University of Hawaii as well
3:47
Speaker 2: as trip to Army Medical Center, and that was a
3:52
Speaker 2: lot of fun. Time went so quickly. They sent me
3:56
Speaker 2: over to Japan for a couple of visits as a
4:00
Speaker 2: visiting professor, and then I went to China on my
4:04
Speaker 2: own to compare how they do things at the university
4:08
Speaker 2: and how they do the things that villagion thefore. But
4:12
Speaker 2: with this globe in mind of the world, you can
4:15
Speaker 2: see I went from Texas to San Francisco to Hawaii
4:20
Speaker 2: a Japan. I'm going actually in a westerly direction now,
4:24
Speaker 2: having been in an easterly direction. See, so if I
4:27
Speaker 2: can close that gap between Hong Kong and a Bangkok,
4:31
Speaker 2: I can say I've been around the planet. But for
4:34
Speaker 2: me it was important to travel, and I love the
4:37
Speaker 2: idea of traveling. One of my best friends decided to
4:41
Speaker 2: stay all his life in Manitoba. So we all have
4:46
Speaker 2: different views of what would like to do. So if
4:48
Speaker 2: you would like to do medicine, if you'd like to travel,
4:52
Speaker 2: then I put this in a book called Insanity of Wars.
4:56
Speaker 2: It's actually an autobiography covering seven eight decas aides. It
5:01
Speaker 2: starts before antibiotics were even discovered. It starts with my
5:06
Speaker 2: grandfather's death actually at the age of forty nine in
5:10
Speaker 2: nineteen twenty five. He had an infected arm and he
5:15
Speaker 2: went to the hospital and that the treatment in those
5:19
Speaker 2: days was to slash the arm, and believe it or not,
5:23
Speaker 2: the next day he died. Although it was nineteen twenty five,
5:26
Speaker 2: antibiotics came out in nineteen twenty eight, three years later,
5:31
Speaker 2: just up the road at Saint Mary's Hospital, but he
5:35
Speaker 2: presented with his infected arm too soon. There's been so
5:39
Speaker 2: many wonderful developments over the past a few decades that
5:45
Speaker 2: we've got all this amazing science of fingertips. And so
5:50
Speaker 2: if there's anyone out there who's interested in science, who's
5:53
Speaker 2: fascinated by medicine, who likes to travel or not travel, well,
5:58
Speaker 2: I think medicine is only something to consider.
6:02
Speaker 1: I love the journey and I love the worldview. What
6:05
Speaker 1: do you think like living and being and in so
6:10
Speaker 1: many areas of the world, what do you think that
6:11
Speaker 1: has done for you as a as a human, as
6:14
Speaker 1: a person, and as a physician. Having seen so many
6:18
Speaker 1: different cultures and so many different people's, tell me about
6:22
Speaker 1: that and how that's served you in your life.
6:25
Speaker 2: It was a very important serving to me because having
6:31
Speaker 2: been brought up in London June World War two with
6:34
Speaker 2: the London Blitz, we got to hate our enemies, of course,
6:38
Speaker 2: so that the Nazis were dropping bombs on our street.
6:43
Speaker 2: We would start the day to see who had been
6:45
Speaker 2: killed in the night. How about back the stress, right,
6:48
Speaker 2: So we started to hate the German people. And then
6:52
Speaker 2: of course that we heard about the Japanese going through
7:00
Speaker 2: Beans and China, and my uncle actually was put into
7:03
Speaker 2: a Japanese camp and he spent the concentration camp time
7:10
Speaker 2: of six years there. And so it was natural in
7:15
Speaker 2: our psyche to hate the Japanese, you see. So the
7:18
Speaker 2: interesting thing was how did the travel affect me? Interestingly enough,
7:25
Speaker 2: I was drafted to Germany, and while I was in Germany,
7:31
Speaker 2: I met a lot of wonderful German people, and I
7:35
Speaker 2: suddenly realized that all this hate that had been built
7:38
Speaker 2: up during the war was really not applicable to the
7:44
Speaker 2: German people. And similarly, when I was in the American Army,
7:51
Speaker 2: I was sent to Japan a couple of times. They
7:55
Speaker 2: were so kind and such friends. Are almost ashamed that
8:02
Speaker 2: I had these feelings as a child, but obviously one
8:05
Speaker 2: can understand. And I became so enamored with the German
8:11
Speaker 2: culture that when I was invited back a second time,
8:14
Speaker 2: I said absolutely yes, And I went to Japan the
8:19
Speaker 2: second time, and I found I loved the Far East.
8:23
Speaker 2: I was fortunate to work in Singapore for two years
8:29
Speaker 2: and that was a pleasure too. So the culture does
8:33
Speaker 2: affect you. You come to know the people and you
8:36
Speaker 2: realize a lot of the animosity is from the top,
8:40
Speaker 2: from the politicians, and they've got to be able to
8:45
Speaker 2: be more diplomatic, They've got to solve their problems without
8:49
Speaker 2: killing people. It amazed me, you know, when I started
8:53
Speaker 2: to research World War two that and it's not my figure,
8:58
Speaker 2: it's documented seventy three million people were killed. There was
9:04
Speaker 2: something like thirty one nations involved in that World War
9:07
Speaker 2: two and seventy three million. Now we know that there
9:11
Speaker 2: were six people in the Holocaust, but to imagine if
9:15
Speaker 2: we include both sides, Germany, Japan, Australia, United States, written Canada,
9:24
Speaker 2: grandmas and children that were bombed and killed, seventy three million.
9:28
Speaker 2: And that's why I called my first book Insanity of Wars.
9:35
Speaker 2: I may just have a little short commercial. It has
9:37
Speaker 2: four hundred pages, one hundred and thirty photographs, and ten maps,
9:42
Speaker 2: and it's easily obtained by insanityo wars dot com. So
9:46
Speaker 2: if you send a text or an email to yourself
9:49
Speaker 2: that says insanity of wars dot com. It will light
9:51
Speaker 2: up as a link. But that's what got me started
9:55
Speaker 2: writing my first book. I have written a number of
9:59
Speaker 2: scientists articles, of course would you Believe? Nearly forty which
10:04
Speaker 2: included a number of discoveries I made during my career,
10:08
Speaker 2: which I'd love to tell you about sometime.
10:10
Speaker 1: I'd love to speak just a little bit more about
10:12
Speaker 1: this war space because it's so unique, and we are
10:17
Speaker 1: my generation and the generation behind me. I just turned
10:21
Speaker 1: forty eight. They are away from war. They've never they
10:29
Speaker 1: don't The grandparents and the parents who lived and fought
10:33
Speaker 1: in Vietnam and in World War two, in Korean War
10:37
Speaker 1: are gone out of the picture. They're not sharing their
10:40
Speaker 1: stories anymore. And so we're getting removed from the insanity
10:45
Speaker 1: of war. And I want to just capture it a
10:48
Speaker 1: little bit here, because there's lessons to be learned from
10:52
Speaker 1: this space. My grandfather fought in World War Two and
10:56
Speaker 1: the Green War. He was a marine and he suffered
11:00
Speaker 1: a lot. He came home very traumatized, and that trickled
11:05
Speaker 1: down through my mom and my aunt and the kids.
11:09
Speaker 1: And the trauma that that war brought into America was
11:13
Speaker 1: hard for generations. It was hard, and we're getting away
11:17
Speaker 1: from that trauma, but there were lessons also through that trauma,
11:21
Speaker 1: and there were good pieces to understand and learn. And
11:25
Speaker 1: I never harbored any ill will toward the Japanese. They
11:27
Speaker 1: were instrumental and my grandfather suffering a lot, and I
11:33
Speaker 1: think it bears us to have a global perspective. But
11:38
Speaker 1: also I would love to hear just a little bit
11:41
Speaker 1: about the insanity of wars in what you feel are
11:45
Speaker 1: some of the salient learning points from these wars for us,
11:50
Speaker 1: because again, we're removed from it. I'm less removed from
11:53
Speaker 1: it because I know the stories of my grandfather and
11:56
Speaker 1: my father and these other people who served in the
11:58
Speaker 1: military during those wars, but the younger generation is quite removed.
12:03
Speaker 1: So if you would just share with us a few
12:06
Speaker 1: of the salient things that we could learn from.
12:09
Speaker 2: Some of those spaces, right right, maybe I'll go towards
12:16
Speaker 2: that subject by exposing my age, or to ask me earlier,
12:20
Speaker 2: which I've avoided. I wanted to celebrate my eightieth birthday
12:26
Speaker 2: with my trenchieth marathon, and it was done, and my daughter,
12:31
Speaker 2: who was seventeen at the time, said, Dad, when are
12:34
Speaker 2: you going to do the next one. I said, well,
12:36
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what, Brittany, if I'm alive in five years,
12:39
Speaker 2: come and ask me again. So eighty five came along
12:44
Speaker 2: and she said, well, Dad, I said, if you're going
12:47
Speaker 2: to do it, I'll do it. And so she ended
12:49
Speaker 2: up doing her second marathon. And I was doing my
12:52
Speaker 2: twenty first marathon. And you know how it is. If
12:54
Speaker 2: you do twenty six point two miles, you run along.
12:57
Speaker 2: At the end of that time, you are ready to
13:00
Speaker 2: sit down, or get in the ocean or do something.
13:03
Speaker 2: And she said, round, Dad, when you do the next one,
13:08
Speaker 2: I said, well, look, Brittany, if I'm alive in five years,
13:12
Speaker 2: ask me again. So I have one more year to practice,
13:16
Speaker 2: and I hope next year I'll be doing another mothr.
13:21
Speaker 2: And how does this relate to Well, I think what's
13:26
Speaker 2: important is the horrendous ports parts of the war which
13:34
Speaker 2: are so traumatic. World War Two was not so long
13:39
Speaker 2: ago while I was growing up, and we, you know,
13:45
Speaker 2: we kind of dismiss war, I think to a certain extent.
13:49
Speaker 2: If I don't, it's really the newer generation they haven't
13:52
Speaker 2: experienced it. So let me come back to your question
13:56
Speaker 2: about my experience with it. Well, we would start the day,
14:00
Speaker 2: as I may have mentioned, by seeing who had been
14:03
Speaker 2: killed in the night. Now they still had newspapers going,
14:07
Speaker 2: and they still had railways going, they still had the
14:10
Speaker 2: radio going. I can remember whinstead Churchill. You know, we
14:13
Speaker 2: will never give in. And I learnt my geography actually
14:16
Speaker 2: from the newspapers. We see the German bounce across Europe,
14:22
Speaker 2: through Belgium, Luxembourg into France. We were fearful. We got
14:27
Speaker 2: on our knees and prayed that the Germans would not
14:30
Speaker 2: come from from Calais over to Dover and then up
14:34
Speaker 2: the Roman Road to London. I mean, this is how
14:38
Speaker 2: we learned our geography. Another aspect that I remember very
14:44
Speaker 2: clearly was as young children, how did we go to school?
14:50
Speaker 2: We walked to school because everybody walked everywhere. Nobody had
14:54
Speaker 2: any cars in those days. And we would again we
14:59
Speaker 2: would play is who could find the largest piece of
15:03
Speaker 2: shrapnel which is part of a German bomb because it
15:07
Speaker 2: had been exploding during the night and it would leave
15:11
Speaker 2: pieces of shrapnel in the gardens around the houses, And
15:14
Speaker 2: who could bring the highest piece of shrapnel. This is
15:17
Speaker 2: what these six seven year olds were doing. And we
15:21
Speaker 2: would compare eight inches to four inches to six inches
15:24
Speaker 2: to see who would have the largest piece. But what
15:29
Speaker 2: was interesting is that after a while, I think as children,
15:33
Speaker 2: we accepted war so that we were no longer in terror. War.
15:40
Speaker 2: We were somewhat fearful. We regularly prayed. We had a
15:45
Speaker 2: shelter inside the house that was made of steel, and
15:49
Speaker 2: we had a choice. We could either get under this
15:53
Speaker 2: shelter in our sitting rooms, or we could go to
15:55
Speaker 2: the end of the street and get into this concrete
15:58
Speaker 2: bunker and hope we would be protected from the from
16:02
Speaker 2: the bombing. And we kind of too for granted that
16:05
Speaker 2: my mother and I had a brother, rich and and
16:08
Speaker 2: the three of us would get underneath this steel shelter
16:13
Speaker 2: it's called Nisen shelter and hope that the scene even
16:18
Speaker 2: come down and crushes, and we kind of that as normal,
16:22
Speaker 2: not interesting.
16:23
Speaker 1: You know, this is fascinating. I think we have a
16:29
Speaker 1: whole other subset of challenges now and that the wars
16:33
Speaker 1: right now are waged politically. I mean, some of that
16:37
Speaker 1: animosity that you had when dealing with some of the
16:41
Speaker 1: war stuff, you know, created resentment towards certain certain people
16:46
Speaker 1: in certain countries, et cetera. And we have some of
16:49
Speaker 1: that now. In our political environment, you know, with I've
16:53
Speaker 1: never felt unsafe to travel until more recently. Our political
16:57
Speaker 1: environment in the United States is not super power that are.
17:00
Speaker 1: The World Cup, I think is bringing more positivity because
17:03
Speaker 1: the people are coming over here and rubbing shoulders with
17:05
Speaker 1: the Americans and realizing we're just normal people like they are,
17:09
Speaker 1: even if our leaders are sometimes a little bit harder
17:12
Speaker 1: to deal with. And I find the wars that are
17:16
Speaker 1: waged right now are largely between our ears. There's emotional
17:21
Speaker 1: and kind of you know, emotional wars with anxiety and
17:25
Speaker 1: depression and all of the pull of technology to distract
17:29
Speaker 1: us from the reality of who we are and what
17:32
Speaker 1: we're doing on this earth. And it's in some ways
17:37
Speaker 1: it's it's less challenging, nobody's jumping into an Andersen shelter
17:41
Speaker 1: trying to avoid the roof caving in on them. But
17:44
Speaker 1: in some ways it's more challenging too. There's the equation
17:48
Speaker 1: has changed and the battles have changed, but I think
17:51
Speaker 1: that they're certainly very difficult. And I remember during COVID,
18:00
Speaker 1: especially the fallout after and even before COVID and after COVID,
18:06
Speaker 1: there was a lot of mental health in our in
18:11
Speaker 1: our teenage population, especially we were having we were in
18:14
Speaker 1: Utah County, yet we have a very high suicide rate,
18:18
Speaker 1: and it's probably multi factorial that COVID, you know, with
18:22
Speaker 1: all the social distancing and all the social stuff that happened,
18:26
Speaker 1: there was very, very damaging to some of our teenagers.
18:29
Speaker 1: And I remember waking up every morning and seeing the
18:32
Speaker 1: suicide count for the day and the death that kind
18:36
Speaker 1: of played out from our society and the challenges that
18:39
Speaker 1: our youth are going through right now. And I think
18:41
Speaker 1: it's a very challenging time to be an adolescent teenager
18:46
Speaker 1: person right now in our societies. Well, it certainly can
18:51
Speaker 1: be unless we compare ourselves to the stress that others
18:55
Speaker 1: have had. There's no question the United States is the
18:59
Speaker 1: best country on the planet, and people coming from abroad
19:05
Speaker 1: admire that, and we should appreciate how many blessings we
19:11
Speaker 1: have in the United States. And as I mentioned to you,
19:15
Speaker 1: I did write my fourth book about the one hundred
19:19
Speaker 1: medical benefits of running. When I went to high school,
19:26
Speaker 1: we used to have cross country running. When I was
19:31
Speaker 1: younger than that, my mother was always taking myself and
19:34
Speaker 1: my brother to visit various places in London. My grand
19:38
Speaker 1: edge Greene Park and the historical museums, and most of
19:43
Speaker 1: the time we were walking, or we would get a
19:45
Speaker 1: bus or we get a train. After the war was
19:50
Speaker 1: ended in nineteen forty five. Yes, there are seventy three
19:54
Speaker 1: million people that were killed between nineteen thirty nine. That's
19:58
Speaker 1: when Hitler went into Germany. He first of all when
20:01
Speaker 1: you Czechoslovakia, and then Churchill said if you go into Poland,
20:05
Speaker 1: you will be starting World War two. And of course
20:09
Speaker 1: you did go into Poland nineteen thirty nine. The US
20:14
Speaker 1: came into the Second World War in nineteen forty one,
20:17
Speaker 1: and it ended, fortunately in nineteen forty five, but that
20:22
Speaker 1: was an awful lot of rendiums going on. Now, that's
20:28
Speaker 1: one way I think of listening strength the stress if
20:31
Speaker 1: we can focus on the hardship of other people and
20:37
Speaker 1: consider how fortunate we are. But I have found out
20:42
Speaker 1: that jogging running and I moved away from cross country
20:46
Speaker 1: running to eventually getting into marathon running. And I can
20:51
Speaker 1: think the United States Army for that because when I
20:54
Speaker 1: was a first deployed I arrived on the first day,
20:59
Speaker 1: I was asked, you are going to do the marathon
21:02
Speaker 1: in December, aren't you? That time this was way back
21:06
Speaker 1: in the seventies, I said, what's the marathon twenty six
21:10
Speaker 1: point two miles. Well, of course you don't say no
21:14
Speaker 1: in the army, you see. So of course I said yes.
21:17
Speaker 2: And I go home and my son now is at
21:23
Speaker 2: nine ten years of age, and we used to go
21:27
Speaker 2: jogging on the weekend on Saturdays, you see. And so
21:31
Speaker 2: I said, Robbie, I'm going to do the marathon in December.
21:36
Speaker 2: He said, Dad, Dad signed me up. I said, now,
21:38
Speaker 2: wait a moment, it's twenty six point two miles. You
21:41
Speaker 2: know you're only this size. Well he said, please please.
21:46
Speaker 2: So I said, I tell you what I'll do, Robbie.
21:49
Speaker 2: If if you change your mind, that's fine, I'll sign
21:53
Speaker 2: you up. So you can imagine December came and I'm
21:56
Speaker 2: holding his hand and we go to the first few
21:58
Speaker 2: miles and it's shoelace comes undone. So we do that,
22:03
Speaker 2: and we keep going on and on. And this is
22:06
Speaker 2: in the seventies, nineteen seventy eight actually, and it was
22:09
Speaker 2: the fourth time Parnolulu had a marathon. It was still reverishing. You.
22:15
Speaker 2: We didn't know what damage on distance running would do
22:19
Speaker 2: to young boys or young girls. And anyway, we keep
22:24
Speaker 2: going almost run, and I'm surprised that there's some other
22:28
Speaker 2: children running to my surprise, who actually were the sons
22:31
Speaker 2: and daughters of other doctors in the hospital that I
22:34
Speaker 2: was working. So anyway, two miles from the finish line,
22:40
Speaker 2: Robbie says to me, Dad, I'll see you at the
22:43
Speaker 2: finish line, and there he was, wait here for me.
22:48
Speaker 2: And the moral of the story is, let us never
22:52
Speaker 2: underestimate children. And the big question was answered a few
22:56
Speaker 2: years later with the question mark, how damaging is running? Well?
23:04
Speaker 2: And this is very unusual. But he was a very
23:06
Speaker 2: unusual boy, and I think running at an early age
23:10
Speaker 2: helped him. But he was accepted at an ivy league
23:13
Speaker 2: college at fifteen. Now, what helps us to understand what
23:21
Speaker 2: the subject you mentioned about depression and anxiety? You know,
23:26
Speaker 2: I went to an interview once and somebody said, well,
23:28
Speaker 2: what do you do when you're stressed? I say, I
23:31
Speaker 2: get on a pair of running shoes and get for
23:33
Speaker 2: a jock because getting rid of depression and anxiety two
23:38
Speaker 2: of the major benefits of jogging. But there is something
23:43
Speaker 2: I would like to put out there. BD brain derived
23:48
Speaker 2: npbd MP brain derived neurotropic factor. Now, this is a
23:55
Speaker 2: hormone which is produced in the body from legs, from
24:01
Speaker 2: the skeletal muscle actually as we run, and it has
24:05
Speaker 2: a special property of repairing any brain damage. Isn't that interesting?
24:14
Speaker 2: In the old days, we thought if a person had
24:15
Speaker 2: brain damage and they could never recover from that. But
24:20
Speaker 2: it's now discovered that with running you can have this
24:24
Speaker 2: BDNF enzyme which will restore your memory, get rid of depression,
24:31
Speaker 2: get rid of anxiety, and probably make you less likely
24:35
Speaker 2: to commit suicide. Now, there's going to be exceptions, but
24:39
Speaker 2: if there were one message I would want to put
24:42
Speaker 2: out there, if you're feeling down, please put on the
24:45
Speaker 2: running shoes and you may try five or ten minutes,
24:49
Speaker 2: but each day you can increase it, increase it, and
24:52
Speaker 2: your body will thank you and we'll ask you to
24:55
Speaker 2: come running.
24:56
Speaker 1: There's great data here actually in the BD and F
24:59
Speaker 1: space with cardiovasco of exercise and the spikes of that
25:02
Speaker 1: causes brain drive neurotropirofider I tell folks it's like growth
25:06
Speaker 1: hormone for your muscles, but for your brain, and it
25:09
Speaker 1: helps it helps develop neuroplasticity, yes, and it helps actually
25:15
Speaker 1: actually grow parts of your brain that are in charge
25:18
Speaker 1: of neuroplasticity and emotional intelligence. Yes, both of which are
25:23
Speaker 1: arguably the reason we're here on this planet right keep
25:26
Speaker 1: changing and growing and understand, recognize, regulate, express, and use
25:31
Speaker 1: our emotions. I mean that's.
25:33
Speaker 2: Really really important, really really important.
25:35
Speaker 1: And so I'm glad you mentioned running. I would love
25:38
Speaker 1: to check out your book. You said the one hundred, the.
25:41
Speaker 2: One hundred benefits of running. And it's not just so
25:44
Speaker 2: the brain, which is in itself a great gift, but
25:48
Speaker 2: it's also even if you have a genetic tendency for
25:51
Speaker 2: real stones, there's less frequency in the appearance of kidney stones. Apparently.
26:00
Speaker 2: This is a quick anecdote. I have five friends whose
26:04
Speaker 2: names the Mike. Three of them have prostate cancer. One
26:09
Speaker 2: of the benefits are running is it improves the health
26:13
Speaker 2: of your prostate. Right now, I'll tell you something, John
26:18
Speaker 2: as high cat order. This might sound very strange because
26:21
Speaker 2: I've never seen it out there yet, but I feel
26:24
Speaker 2: my hearing is getting better and I'm delighted, and I
26:29
Speaker 2: believe somehow it's the oxygen nation that comes from jogging.
26:35
Speaker 2: I have much younger friends ten years younger, who don't jog,
26:39
Speaker 2: who never wanted to jog, who've had cataract surgeries. You know,
26:44
Speaker 2: I feel so blessed never to have had any serious
26:49
Speaker 2: surgery or any serious illness. I take no medications. There's
26:55
Speaker 2: nothing special about me except I love doing jogging. I
27:00
Speaker 2: think it's just eration of the body, which the body
27:04
Speaker 2: dearly leaves. And I tell you, I was looking over
27:09
Speaker 2: recently some messages that have come down the line from
27:13
Speaker 2: our centurions, our centenarians, those that have reached one hundred
27:20
Speaker 2: years of age. I know, oxygen octogenarian and non engeneerian.
27:26
Speaker 2: I don't often speak about people who are one hundred plus,
27:29
Speaker 2: but people ain't, you know, Bob Hope and yes, and
27:35
Speaker 2: they all say trying it out for at least a
27:39
Speaker 2: walk of fifteen minutes a day. It's so important. So
27:44
Speaker 2: I've had I'm going to give you as a gift job.
27:47
Speaker 2: I brought a special copy of one hundred Benefits of Beautiful.
27:53
Speaker 2: It's my gift to you. Oh, thank you so much,
27:55
Speaker 2: thank you so much. I love that, and I love
27:57
Speaker 2: your example to us, just consistently putting on the.
28:01
Speaker 1: Shoes and moving. We were made to move, and largely
28:06
Speaker 1: in our society, with the technological advancements, the mechanical advancements.
28:11
Speaker 1: Often we're just driving from one spot to the next spot.
28:14
Speaker 1: At least in America. Europe is set up a little
28:16
Speaker 1: bit more toward walking, and it's more walking society, but
28:20
Speaker 1: we are not so much set up for that. And
28:22
Speaker 1: so even walking, jogging, just getting out and moving our bodies.
28:27
Speaker 1: There's like a million reasons why that's super important. Our
28:31
Speaker 1: immune system, our immune function. I mean, you don't take
28:34
Speaker 1: any medicines, you're very healthy, you're very robust, and you
28:37
Speaker 1: are moving very, very consistently, and it's so lovely.
28:40
Speaker 2: That's me. I would like to add to that. John,
28:44
Speaker 2: just because I was eighty three, eighty four, eighty five,
28:48
Speaker 2: I didn't think I should hide myself during the COVID years,
28:52
Speaker 2: and so I was out treating COVID patients and some
28:58
Speaker 2: of them were very highbrid and I made a discovery.
29:03
Speaker 2: And I'd love to pass this short message onto you
29:09
Speaker 2: that actually occurred to me. And I also I'd like
29:14
Speaker 2: to pass on the thought to you if you have
29:16
Speaker 2: an idea, pursue it. And it occurred to me one day,
29:21
Speaker 2: why had I not had a cold for twenty years?
29:24
Speaker 2: And I would get a nose running initially, like everybody does,
29:29
Speaker 2: while you're lying in bed. The first day, I would
29:31
Speaker 2: coutured the bathroom. I would blow my nose out of course,
29:35
Speaker 2: and then I would wash my hands, and then I
29:39
Speaker 2: did an extra step. Well, the soap was still on
29:42
Speaker 2: my fingers, I would put a finger up each in astro. Now,
29:46
Speaker 2: what I didn't realize was I was bringing SLS into
29:52
Speaker 2: contact with the cold virus and didn't think anything about it.
29:58
Speaker 2: Or I thought was well, this is a an extra
30:00
Speaker 2: cleaning tool. In that finger in the narrows, I felt
30:04
Speaker 2: cleaner when I went back to bed. We're talking about
30:07
Speaker 2: a few seconds. So I was lying in bed one
30:11
Speaker 2: morning and the radio came on and the news radio said,
30:17
Speaker 2: the capsule of the covied virus is the same as
30:22
Speaker 2: the capsule of the cold virus, the common cold. And
30:27
Speaker 2: I thought to myself, I wonder if the same thing
30:29
Speaker 2: could work for the covere virus has worked for the
30:35
Speaker 2: cold virus. So I tried it with my patients. I
30:40
Speaker 2: tried it with myself, and I learned more about SLS. Now,
30:47
Speaker 2: these amazing scientists that we have, and I'm not talking
30:50
Speaker 2: about physicians, I'm talking about biochemical scient exactly. The virologists
30:59
Speaker 2: they have not been we see this COVID virus because
31:02
Speaker 2: we can't see it through a microscope. We might see
31:05
Speaker 2: it through an electron microscope. But what these virologists have
31:10
Speaker 2: done is actually broken down the components of the virus itself.
31:16
Speaker 2: They can tell us, they can tell you that the
31:18
Speaker 2: capsule is full proteins NEM and s okay, but COVID
31:27
Speaker 2: has the same And as an aside, there's been no
31:30
Speaker 2: studies yet the Haptera virus, the very latest one people
31:34
Speaker 2: are talking about. Apparently it has the same capsule as
31:37
Speaker 2: the code virus of the COVID virus. Now I'm not
31:40
Speaker 2: aware of any studies yet, but when I presented the idea,
31:45
Speaker 2: look why don't we put soap bubbles up the nose
31:48
Speaker 2: for a few seconds for a COVID patient or you
31:51
Speaker 2: can imagine, there was some humor, some laughter about that.
31:55
Speaker 2: And the response is normal where the study is other trials,
32:00
Speaker 2: And of course I did not have a prospective, randomized,
32:04
Speaker 2: double blinded study of thirty thousand people in that time.
32:08
Speaker 2: But the good news is now we are in twenty
32:12
Speaker 2: twenty six, from Germany across the United States, there have
32:17
Speaker 2: been many studies now proving conclusively through words SLS kills COVID.
32:26
Speaker 2: SOLS is sodium moros sulfate and it is in most
32:32
Speaker 2: of the soaps. I just add that in nineteen o five,
32:37
Speaker 2: the manufacturers wanted to sell more soap and they thought
32:40
Speaker 2: if they could put bubbles in soap, maybe we can
32:43
Speaker 2: sell more. They knew that SLS made bubbles, so they
32:47
Speaker 2: added it to the soap. It did make bubbles. The
32:50
Speaker 2: sales of soap went up. But what they were doing
32:53
Speaker 2: was they were also adding another benefit, namely killing the
32:59
Speaker 2: fiviruses with their sols. They were now able to kill
33:03
Speaker 2: off the cold virus and the COVID device, but they
33:06
Speaker 2: didn't realize it. It was up to you and me
33:10
Speaker 2: to actually try it for ourselves. But now the studies
33:14
Speaker 2: have done the complete SLS kills COVID. So all we
33:20
Speaker 2: have to do if we think COVID is coming on,
33:23
Speaker 2: especially if we go on a flight, you know a
33:26
Speaker 2: lot of people. You come back, you've either got a
33:28
Speaker 2: call or COVID. Maybe, so blow the nose, wash the hands,
33:33
Speaker 2: and of course an age and everybody says wash your hands.
33:40
Speaker 2: What they don't say yet is put a finger up
33:43
Speaker 2: the nostril for four or five seconds and The beauty
33:46
Speaker 2: is that SLS will kill off the virus within twenty
33:50
Speaker 2: four forty eight hours. You don't have to do this
33:52
Speaker 2: for weeks or months. So I hope I've made the
33:56
Speaker 2: message clear. Give it a shot. Many of my friends
34:01
Speaker 2: have tried this, and that's confirmed. The studies have been done.
34:06
Speaker 2: SLS kills COVID, So I leave that with you. I
34:09
Speaker 2: tried longer to mention that that I intended to, but
34:14
Speaker 2: it's so important. So we've got now an extra tool,
34:18
Speaker 2: a cheap tool. You imagine third world countries with no antivirals,
34:22
Speaker 2: no antibiotics, but they all got soap. That's why we've
34:26
Speaker 2: got to get the message out there that these soap
34:29
Speaker 2: bubbles up the nose. And most of the soaps have CLS.
34:34
Speaker 2: There are a few that have become organic and they've
34:37
Speaker 2: taken the SLS out. But nevertheless, the other good news
34:44
Speaker 2: is that if you put these bubbles up the nose
34:46
Speaker 2: for a few seconds, it does not excoriate. It doesn't
34:49
Speaker 2: make the nose saw, and that's been one of the
34:52
Speaker 2: possible criticism it makes it it doesn't make the no saw.
34:57
Speaker 1: Well, thanks for sharing that pearl of wisdom. I think
35:01
Speaker 1: sometimes we're so dogmatic in medicine about randomized, double blind,
35:06
Speaker 1: place EBO controlled studies that we fail to see the
35:10
Speaker 1: wisdom of experience, of just experience and something that clinically
35:16
Speaker 1: works clinical research, you know, for the it's funny. I'm
35:21
Speaker 1: involved in a research study right now, and it's interesting.
35:26
Speaker 1: It's very hyper rigid, it's very which understandably so science
35:32
Speaker 1: is science. You don't want to make things up right,
35:35
Speaker 1: and so but in these spaces where there's clinical experiences
35:39
Speaker 1: with things that work, to make that to pull that
35:44
Speaker 1: into you know, practice is tricky. So it's neat to
35:50
Speaker 1: have venues like this where you can just talk about
35:52
Speaker 1: it and say, as a clinician, you know, family doctor
35:56
Speaker 1: for many many years, this is what I've experienced and
35:58
Speaker 1: this is why it's working for my clients and for me.
36:01
Speaker 1: And yes, that's low evidence based, you know, but it's
36:04
Speaker 1: it's sometimes that's okay, you know. Yeah, that's Sony. Thanks
36:10
Speaker 1: for sharing that. Any other sweet pearls, I mean running
36:13
Speaker 1: BD and f spiking exercise perspective. This is a this
36:19
Speaker 1: is a really really fun podcast.
36:21
Speaker 2: I would like to add something to what you said,
36:24
Speaker 2: and I don't think it's just positions that should think
36:27
Speaker 2: about this. I think even non physicians or students, if
36:31
Speaker 2: they have an idea about something, you know, pursue it.
36:34
Speaker 2: It's not necessary to have thirty thousand cases. And let's
36:38
Speaker 2: go back for a second to the days of from Lister.
36:45
Speaker 2: You know, he was just hearing about the bacteria. I
36:48
Speaker 2: told you how my grandfather had died because antibiotics wasn't around.
36:54
Speaker 2: But Lister was working along the railway tracks one day
36:58
Speaker 2: and he was seeing these people or painting the wooden
37:02
Speaker 2: parts of the railway tracks with creosote. He says, why
37:04
Speaker 2: do you do that? And they said, well, it's to
37:08
Speaker 2: kill anything that's growing inside them, you know, to prevent
37:15
Speaker 2: it rotting. And so he put one one together. In
37:18
Speaker 2: those days, if anyone fell off a horse or a
37:23
Speaker 2: bicycle and broke a leg an arm and become infected,
37:27
Speaker 2: the treatment was to cut them off, to cut the
37:30
Speaker 2: arm off, cut the leg off. When he had a
37:32
Speaker 2: boy that a few days later, he had four of
37:35
Speaker 2: a horse. He was eleven years of age and he
37:39
Speaker 2: broken his leg. Now, majority of the time he would
37:42
Speaker 2: have ended up with a missing leg, but he decided
37:45
Speaker 2: to try creosote on lint. And the truth is that
37:53
Speaker 2: it healed, he didn't have to amputate. And of course
37:57
Speaker 2: now we have listerine, we know all about antisep. But
38:00
Speaker 2: another non physician story. There was a lady in Chicago.
38:06
Speaker 2: She went to her doctor and said, doctor, is it
38:10
Speaker 2: possible that the tumors my daughter has in the pelvis
38:17
Speaker 2: couldn't have been related to the hormones I was given
38:22
Speaker 2: while I was pregnant. Know, in those days and it's
38:25
Speaker 2: not so long ago. For a person who's having miscarriages,
38:29
Speaker 2: they thought, if they gave him dies, we stay ethos tevesty.
38:33
Speaker 2: This is terrible. It would stop the miscarriages. And of
38:37
Speaker 2: course what it was doing, it was giving tumors to
38:41
Speaker 2: the daughter. And this was just a report and observation
38:46
Speaker 2: really of a mother to her doctor. So if you
38:50
Speaker 2: feel you have a suspicion of something, you know, please
38:54
Speaker 2: say it. I'll tell you another interesting little story. When
38:58
Speaker 2: I first started my residency in New York, actually they
39:04
Speaker 2: were checking women who came in with feetal with their
39:12
Speaker 2: babies not moving for a few days. Now, this is
39:14
Speaker 2: perfectly normal, of course, from thirty seven to forty weeks,
39:18
Speaker 2: because the baby is so large and it doesn't have
39:21
Speaker 2: much space, and so the baby kind of sleeps a
39:23
Speaker 2: little longer, and the mother wonders, you know, it's my baby. Okay,
39:29
Speaker 2: I'm not getting the kicks, so number one, she needs
39:32
Speaker 2: to be told that kicks slow down. But anyway, these
39:36
Speaker 2: ladies would come to the emergency room and that they
39:41
Speaker 2: would get X rays to see if the baby was
39:44
Speaker 2: alive or not. And in those days, they would diagnose
39:49
Speaker 2: a baby's death by a thickening of scalpadeemer And it
39:54
Speaker 2: just so happens that ultrasound was coming out of time.
40:01
Speaker 2: One of the features of ultrasound was you could feel
40:05
Speaker 2: and see you couldn't feel or you could see the
40:09
Speaker 2: baby's heartbeat. So I said, as a simple first year
40:16
Speaker 2: student at the time, Resident I said, is it possible,
40:20
Speaker 2: Why don't we just do an ultrasound instead of subjecting
40:23
Speaker 2: the mother to X rays and maybe the baby too.
40:28
Speaker 2: Why don't we just do an if the heart's beating,
40:31
Speaker 2: because say goodbye, keep your next check up time, your
40:35
Speaker 2: babies alive, and make her feel happy and there's no
40:39
Speaker 2: harm done by the ultrasound. Well, this was something very,
40:43
Speaker 2: very popular, so I wrote an article about it. A
40:47
Speaker 2: couple of the professors really wanted to get into this,
40:51
Speaker 2: and they wrote two different articles proving the same thing.
40:54
Speaker 2: Let's switch the ultrasound for field demiers. So it's which.
40:59
Speaker 1: I've never known any other standard of care is actually
41:02
Speaker 1: because I'm a younger physician, and that's all we do.
41:05
Speaker 1: Never X ray baby, we just do an ultrasound check
41:09
Speaker 1: for fetal heart movements. Yeah, wow, I wanted. It's so
41:13
Speaker 1: fascinating that you were on the precipice of that advancement.
41:17
Speaker 2: But not just that. There was another incident, and this
41:20
Speaker 2: is in the AHES. Maybe you know, we don't hear
41:24
Speaker 2: a hepato cellular adonomous which is a fancy term for
41:29
Speaker 2: cists that grow in the liver, maybe the size of
41:33
Speaker 2: an orange, even a grapefruit. They fill up with blood
41:36
Speaker 2: and the lady falls over. The cystruptures, the blood escapes
41:41
Speaker 2: into her abdomen and she dies. Now, these HCA's or
41:46
Speaker 2: satis adnormous were not unheard of. They weren't very common,
41:51
Speaker 2: but they weren't unheard of. They were of concern to
41:54
Speaker 2: us in the nineteen AHES and people are trying to
41:58
Speaker 2: fall them out. I wonder what causes this? And they thought, well,
42:03
Speaker 2: maybe the people are getting birth control pills with too
42:07
Speaker 2: higher dosage, which is fair enough, right, that was the
42:11
Speaker 2: saying that was in the news. Well, suddenly I had
42:19
Speaker 2: five patients with he PATTERSH salar adnomers all at once.
42:24
Speaker 2: I mean, how lucky or unlucky can you be? And
42:28
Speaker 2: I thought, well, what do these people have in common?
42:32
Speaker 2: They weren't all high dosage, some of them were low dosage.
42:37
Speaker 2: What they had in their birth control pills was mastronau.
42:41
Speaker 2: And there are two estrogens for those that are interested
42:45
Speaker 2: in birth control pills and estrogens and hormones and things
42:49
Speaker 2: that the manufacturers have a choice. They could I can't
42:52
Speaker 2: put estratude ethanol estradial, which was one, or they could
42:56
Speaker 2: put mastronaut in the birth control pills. And what I
42:59
Speaker 2: was finding from these five cases, they all had mestronol
43:03
Speaker 2: in their birth control pills, some had lotos, some behinders.
43:07
Speaker 2: So we've got excited about this. We made it into
43:11
Speaker 2: a paper of publications, television, people came around actually wanted
43:15
Speaker 2: to know the details about this. It got into the news,
43:19
Speaker 2: and the residents went to meetings and when the subject
43:23
Speaker 2: came up, they said, you know, they knew the answer,
43:25
Speaker 2: which was nice, which was good. And of course now
43:28
Speaker 2: we don't use mestronol. And now very few people have
43:32
Speaker 2: heard if you better sell that ad noments because it
43:34
Speaker 2: really comes up. I've never seen one, and I've never
43:38
Speaker 2: prescribed astronol. It's been gone since my tenure as a physician,
43:42
Speaker 2: since the nineteen ages. And we took it off the mark.
43:46
Speaker 1: I was two years old.
43:47
Speaker 2: And that was time doz of fact anyway, I mean
43:53
Speaker 2: this was a worldwide implication, Yeah, taking mestrool from birth
43:57
Speaker 2: control pills. So it was being sent out to take
43:59
Speaker 2: on from me.
44:00
Speaker 1: Is is be bold and be observative, like observe your
44:06
Speaker 1: surroundings and see if there are trends that you're noticing,
44:10
Speaker 1: and if we can write a paper, disrupt it, you know,
44:14
Speaker 1: pull it into the science space and then hopefully change
44:17
Speaker 1: something that's so cool. Ultrasound mester and all these changes,
44:23
Speaker 1: these advancements, you know. I remember in residency one of
44:27
Speaker 1: my old gray haired physician attendings, we were walking by
44:32
Speaker 1: Wolfe's Children's Hospital in Jacksonville, Florida, is a big children's
44:37
Speaker 1: hospital for North Florida, and we walk by the nick
44:40
Speaker 1: Q and we you know, walk by and it's pretty
44:43
Speaker 1: empty and one of the old gray haired attendings, turns
44:47
Speaker 1: to me and says, doctor John Sanders, Doctor Sanders, you're
44:51
Speaker 1: so lucky. And I said why. He says, when I
44:54
Speaker 1: was your age, we would walk by this nick you
44:57
Speaker 1: and it was packed. And and I said, well, why,
45:02
Speaker 1: He says, it was full of him office influenza B babies,
45:07
Speaker 1: and half of those babies would die despite our best
45:09
Speaker 1: efforts to keep them alive. Of the other half that remained,
45:14
Speaker 1: half of those would end up with a permanent nerve
45:16
Speaker 1: policy from this meningitis from him office and influenza B him.
45:21
Speaker 1: And as you know, like in my tenure as a
45:24
Speaker 1: younger dog fifteen twenty years is a doc who most
45:29
Speaker 1: our kids get him office influenza B vaccinations. So we
45:33
Speaker 1: don't see that in the hospital. And so it's interesting
45:36
Speaker 1: the generations and what happens in medicine and healthcare and
45:40
Speaker 1: the things that the younger population doesn't see. But that's
45:43
Speaker 1: very real and very it's massive, like it's massive these
45:47
Speaker 1: changes that happened.
45:48
Speaker 2: Don't know, massive changes, And that's what makes it interesting.
45:51
Speaker 2: You know something else, because we're on this line of approach,
45:55
Speaker 2: There was a time in my younger years where if
45:58
Speaker 2: we thought of an ectopic pregnancy. I think most people
46:04
Speaker 2: know about ectopic pregnancy. That's when the pregnancy starts growing
46:07
Speaker 2: outside the world, grows in the tube or grows on
46:12
Speaker 2: top of the ovary, and when it does do that,
46:17
Speaker 2: it exudes blood into the pelvis. And in the old days,
46:23
Speaker 2: what they would do is first of all, try an
46:26
Speaker 2: X ray and then when they were still not sure,
46:32
Speaker 2: because obviously if the woman's abdomen is filling with blood
46:35
Speaker 2: from a rack to topic pregnancy, then a blood pressure
46:39
Speaker 2: is going to go down to take a card. In fact,
46:43
Speaker 2: for certain parts of the world, it was a number
46:45
Speaker 2: one killer of women in pregnancy. The method we had
46:49
Speaker 2: of diagnosing this, this is before the days of oprasound,
46:53
Speaker 2: was to put a long sterile needle that was usually
46:58
Speaker 2: used for a spinal tap into the what they call
47:01
Speaker 2: the cul de sac or just behind the cervix in
47:05
Speaker 2: the vagina and aspirate blood. Now, if you can't blood out,
47:09
Speaker 2: you know there's something going on inside the abdomen, which
47:13
Speaker 2: could be an ectopic pregnancy. If she had a positive
47:16
Speaker 2: pregnancy test and now you're you're you have a syringe
47:19
Speaker 2: that's bringing out blood from the pell discavity. This is right,
47:24
Speaker 2: This could be an ectopic. Of course she would be
47:26
Speaker 2: opened up and maybe her life would be saved. Then
47:30
Speaker 2: came ultrasound, you know, and we could now do a
47:34
Speaker 2: picture of the abdomen. We can see fluid pocket behind
47:39
Speaker 2: the uterus. There we are, We've got our diagnosis. We
47:42
Speaker 2: don't now have to put a needle in all that
47:44
Speaker 2: other slow so you're right, you know, bets and changes
47:48
Speaker 2: so quickly.
47:50
Speaker 1: I love our discussion today. I think there's some take
47:53
Speaker 1: on furrals here. One is just the the consistent curiosity,
48:00
Speaker 1: but also the consistent activity with running and exercise and
48:05
Speaker 1: the spike and BDNF creating neuroplasticity, which is an ability
48:10
Speaker 1: to just keep changing and growing. And I can certainly
48:14
Speaker 1: feel your neuroplasticity as we have talked, as you have
48:18
Speaker 1: continued to change and grow and develop over your life.
48:23
Speaker 1: It is such an honor to talk to you and
48:25
Speaker 1: to hear your story and your journey and to just
48:29
Speaker 1: bear witness to it. It's lovely and I hope that
48:31
Speaker 1: I can continue in my way in being your a
48:35
Speaker 1: good example to me as being a good doc and
48:38
Speaker 1: a good person in the community, and striving to make
48:41
Speaker 1: observations and make change and continue to grow and advocate
48:45
Speaker 1: for the community and the people is just lovely.
48:49
Speaker 2: Well, thanks John, that was very kind of you. And
48:51
Speaker 2: I hope winning food sls and our stories how to
48:54
Speaker 2: prevent it's really neatges.
48:58
Speaker 1: I make these little pieces serenity would for my patients,
49:02
Speaker 1: and my spirit animal is the penguin. So I made
49:04
Speaker 1: this one this morning. It's black walnut, and I give
49:07
Speaker 1: them to friends and family and patients, and I wanted to.
49:10
Speaker 2: Give this one to you. Well, thanks' is a penguin.
49:13
Speaker 2: Soon you know I could tell you a story about
49:17
Speaker 2: a pigrit.
49:18
Speaker 1: Sure we have time.
49:20
Speaker 2: Well, you know, first of all, you got to know London,
49:26
Speaker 2: and I'll say that I grew up in Greenwich and
49:31
Speaker 2: many people watching have probably had a chance to go
49:35
Speaker 2: to London. And what they do. They go to Buying Palace,
49:38
Speaker 2: and they go to the theater and the House of Parliament.
49:43
Speaker 2: But when you get exhausted in the afternoon, I would
49:46
Speaker 2: like to invite you to get on a boat right
49:49
Speaker 2: outside Big Bed. Everybody knows where Big Bean is, and
49:52
Speaker 2: you go down the river and in ten minutes you
49:55
Speaker 2: come to a tower bridge and of course a lot
49:58
Speaker 2: of the women likely had offered tar Bridge because on
50:01
Speaker 2: the left of all the crown jewels in the Tower
50:04
Speaker 2: of London there, which was built in ten sixty six,
50:07
Speaker 2: a long time ago. You come back on the boat
50:10
Speaker 2: your down river Thames for another fifteen minutes. You come
50:14
Speaker 2: to Greenwich and this is a magniscent place, and of
50:17
Speaker 2: course everybody has heard of Greenwich Ringtire and Greenwich Observatory.
50:23
Speaker 2: And on the top of the hill here you have
50:25
Speaker 2: this amazing view of London. I tell you, London gets
50:28
Speaker 2: better every year. You know. As a visitor, I love
50:32
Speaker 2: going back there, but I love you state. So this
50:35
Speaker 2: is my home and this is where my children are born,
50:39
Speaker 2: but I love going back for business, and I can
50:42
Speaker 2: tell you it gets better every year. Anyway, when I
50:45
Speaker 2: was a child, at about at nine years of age,
50:48
Speaker 2: we went to this exhibit hall really and to my
50:55
Speaker 2: surprise there was my penguin sitting on a display cabinet
51:02
Speaker 2: which is about the size that have been made out
51:05
Speaker 2: of not this beautiful wood, but out of plaster. And
51:08
Speaker 2: it was, you know, illustrating some of the activities that
51:12
Speaker 2: have been done by children in the neighborhood. So whenever
51:16
Speaker 2: I think of penguins, I think of that experience I have,
51:19
Speaker 2: and I will certainly remember treasure this. Thank you so much.
51:22
Speaker 1: Oh, that's special.
51:23
Speaker 2: In then I may even have in my bag for you.
51:28
Speaker 2: I'm going to put this on this safe and I
51:33
Speaker 2: bet you have. Oh, it's in the car all the
51:39
Speaker 2: way out. Absolutely well.
51:40
Speaker 1: To our listeners, thank you for chiming in or tuning
51:42
Speaker 1: in to us today, and make sure that you just
51:47
Speaker 1: I hope you learned some cool stuff. I certainly did,
51:49
Speaker 1: and I appreciate you got.
51:51
Speaker 2: You John's I was writing the first time. Oh, I
51:53
Speaker 2: do have the book and it's one hundred benefits from running.
51:58
Speaker 2: This is actually me finishing the math on at early five,
52:03
Speaker 2: So I hope that's something of it.
52:07
Speaker 1: That's an example. Thank you so much, Thank you so much,