Latest / Women Disrupting Tech / Why Female Founders Don’t Need to Know Everything to Scale with Izzy Sayers | Ep. 152

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Why Female Founders Don’t Need to Know Everything to Scale with Izzy Sayers | Ep. 152 · Women Disrupting Tech

0:00
Actually, everything about my current position doesn't really
0:02
have a natural connection to a history degree, but it's
0:06
actually been strangely practical for the roles that
0:09
I've held. So my roles previously have all
0:11
been in and currently have all been in program management,
0:15
community facilitation. And in my degree I was learning
0:20
about many different topics. So constantly switching between
0:24
different parts of history, different topics like history of
0:27
medicine or civil rights or imperial history, and having to
0:31
switch between those all the time.
0:33
And that's something I really recognize in my work.
0:35
But I think the key which I learned through my degree was
0:38
learning how to ask the right questions, understand different
0:41
points of view, and then create something meaningful from that
0:45
information. So I think actually my degree
0:48
equipped me pretty well. Hey, welcome back to Women
1:07
Disrupting Tech, and thank you for tuning in to episode 152.
1:11
I'm your host, dear Kanukas, and this is the podcast that closes
1:15
the funding gap in venture capital by amplifying the
1:18
stories of female founders and their investors.
1:22
Now, many founders think that scaling means that you have to
1:26
become better at everything, better at finance, hiring,
1:30
operations, fundraising, even taxes.
1:34
But my guest in this episode sees that differently.
1:37
Is he Sayers believes that growth starts when founders stop
1:41
trying to solve every problem themselves.
1:44
After spending years working in the startup ecosystem from Tech
1:47
Stars New York to leading the Emerging Giants team at KPMG
1:51
Netherlands, she has seen first hand how complexity can slow
1:55
founders down when they try to do everything themselves.
1:59
To help founders avoid this, we explore why knowing when to
2:02
outsource is one of the most underrated founder skills, how
2:06
to identify the known core complexities like tax and
2:10
finance that are holding your starter back, and why safe
2:14
spaces help founders ask better questions and grow faster.
2:19
Plus, you'll hear how Easy turned the history degree into
2:22
her secret weapon for connecting founders, specialist and
2:26
opportunities. So if you've ever felt pressure
2:29
to know and do everything yourself as a founder, operator
2:32
or leader in tech, here is my conversation with Izzy Sayers.
2:37
Izzy Sayers, good morning. Good to have you.
2:41
Let's start with some background on yourself.
2:44
How did you get into your control in the startup ecosystem
2:48
and with KPMG emerging giants? Hi, well, it's great to be here.
2:53
Thanks for having me on the podcast.
2:56
Yeah, so my current role is leading the startup team at KPMG
3:00
Netherlands, so supporting startups and scale UPS in their
3:02
growth and international expansion, looking at all the
3:06
fundamental topics like tax, finance, risk.
3:09
But I've definitely not always been in the in the corporate
3:12
world or in even that kind of sphere of topics.
3:17
I've been at Amstam for about 10 years now and kind of fell into
3:21
the the start up scene when I arrived here.
3:22
So I graduated with a history degree from the UK and part of
3:27
my degree was an exchange year in the Netherlands and I really
3:31
enjoyed that year. So I decided just to move back
3:33
to Amsterdam with no plan or anything in place really, and
3:37
then ended up stumbling upon two start-ups, which took me on both
3:41
part time. Yeah.
3:44
So I worked for two different start-ups when I first got here,
3:47
got to experience lots of different things.
3:50
And one of those companies was accepted into Techstars program
3:54
in New York City, which was an amazing experience.
3:58
Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, indeed.
4:02
Yeah. It was really, really cool to be
4:03
part of one of those programs and connect with all different
4:07
start-ups from around the world. But actually during that program
4:11
was a really important shift for me.
4:13
I realized whilst I really enjoyed being in the start up
4:17
community, maybe I'd rather run those programs than be in them.
4:22
So when I returned to Amsterdam after the the six months in New
4:25
York, I ended up switching more towards program management type
4:29
role, which kind of set me on the next chapter of my career,
4:32
which leads up to my my KPMG position.
4:36
When I came back from New York, I, I joined TQ, which then
4:41
became TW Spaces, now is actually Capital C Bloomberg.
4:45
They've just been acquired again.
4:46
And there I was running the year round program for the startup
4:50
community and eventually took over the, the partnerships there
4:53
as well. And KPMG was one of the partners
4:56
that I was working with, helping them to kind of figure out their
5:00
position in the startup ecosystem.
5:02
And then from there made the made the the loop towards the
5:08
KPMG team. OK cool.
5:11
So what I heard you say is 2 things I want to double click
5:15
on. One is you have a history
5:16
degree. How does that help you in your
5:20
current role? Yeah, it's a unusual beginning
5:24
for a career in the tech or startup industry.
5:28
People often ask me about this. So, like, how on earth did you
5:30
end up also working at an accounting firm with a history
5:33
degree? So actually everything about my
5:34
current position doesn't really have a natural connection to a
5:38
history degree, but it's actually been strangely
5:41
practical for the roles that I've held.
5:43
So my roles previously have all been in and currently all been
5:47
in program management, community facilitation.
5:52
And in my degree, I was learning about many different topics, so
5:59
constantly switching between different parts of history,
6:02
different topics like history of medicine or civil rights or
6:06
imperial history, and having to switch between those all the
6:11
time. And that's something I really
6:12
recognize in my work now. So I'm always talking to people
6:15
from different industries, different backgrounds, different
6:18
specializations and things that I'm not necessarily an expert in
6:22
myself or have limited knowledge of.
6:25
But I think the key, which I learned through my degree was
6:28
learning how to ask the right questions, understand different
6:31
points of view, and then create something meaningful from that
6:35
information. So university, that would be
6:37
writing an essay, but now in my role, that's making the right
6:40
connection between two people or planning the right content for
6:43
an event. So I think actually my degree
6:46
equipped me pretty well with these skills, even though it's
6:50
not the most obvious connection. No, it's no, but I can
6:55
understand that it helps you do a lot of more the the programme
7:00
management tasks. Interestingly, one of my
7:04
managers also did programme management as a profession and
7:12
she also had a history degree. So so that's that's an
7:17
interesting. It's a secret weapon.
7:19
Yeah, it's sort of a secret weapon, apparently.
7:23
Second thing I heard you say was that you work for a start up
7:28
that ended up being accepted into Tech Starts, Tech Stars New
7:35
York. What was that experience like?
7:38
And what what how does do you still use that experience in
7:44
your current role? I think that experience was
7:48
really helpful for my current role because I could experience
7:51
going through a program first hand.
7:54
So being on the startup side, then I understood the challenges
8:00
of of the startup first hand and then saw how that was balanced
8:03
in the program. So now that I'm doing the
8:05
programming or working with startups from the other side of
8:08
the table, I can still think about those times when I was
8:12
working at a small company with, you know, limited resource, lots
8:16
of things going on. So I think that was definitely a
8:19
really helpful experience before switching towards the the
8:22
program management side. OK.
8:26
And what was New York like for you?
8:30
Very intense. Yeah.
8:32
I think yeah, the highs were high and the lows were low.
8:35
Let's say it's a place of extremes, whereas I think
8:39
Amsterdam offers a much more balanced, YEAH, lifestyle.
8:44
I was like, how old was I, 2223? So quite early in my, in my
8:50
career slash adult life. So it was an amazing experience
8:55
to go there. But I was also happy to come
8:57
back to Amsterdam after six months and, yeah, be a bit more
9:01
relaxed. Yeah, it's a bit.
9:04
But isn't Amsterdam then sort of even silent compared to New
9:08
York? Honestly, it's funny that you
9:11
say silent because the silence was something I missed the most
9:15
when I was in New York. I remember thinking I haven't
9:17
heard silence in in months. Like since I arrived, there's
9:21
always a taxi horn or someone shouting.
9:24
So I was very pleased to have the the silence of Amsterdam, so
9:28
to speak. But I think actually, I don't
9:31
know the Amsterdam is, so it's a small city, but there's a lot
9:37
going on and it's so manageable as a city.
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Like practically speaking, you can get around really easily.
9:42
But also in terms of navigating different communities or people,
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like it feels easier to make those connections.
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And New York is just so, so sprawling and big.
9:52
It means that there's a lot more going on.
9:53
Of course there's more opportunity, but it's also more
9:56
challenging to navigate that. Yeah, yeah.
9:59
That, that I do recognize from my own time in New York.
10:03
Also the silence. That's yeah, I lived there too.
10:07
And I remember coming back. I studied in Koningen at the
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time and I remember coming back and like the first night I
10:16
couldn't sleep. When you came back to Koningen?
10:19
When I came back to Koningen because I was like nothing is
10:24
happening here. It's like oppressive silence.
10:28
Yeah, yeah, almost. Yeah.
10:30
So first thing I heard you say is that you transitioned from
10:36
the Next Web TNW to KPMGI. Think you were advising the KPMG
10:45
team already when you worked at TNW.
10:49
What was the transition like for you?
10:53
Yeah. So in my role at TMWI was
10:57
looking after our partnerships that we had and one of them was
11:00
KPMG and I was helping them to figure out how they would
11:05
connect with the startup community because they had this
11:07
partnership with with TQ at the time, then the next web spaces.
11:12
But in the beginning, there wasn't a really concrete plan
11:15
about what they would do together.
11:17
And to be honest, I was also kind of baffled and trying to
11:21
figure out what the connection would be because I had no idea
11:24
what KBMG even did at the time. But together we kind of, yeah,
11:29
did a lot of trial and error, different programmes, different
11:32
formats, and eventually found a few things that stuck.
11:35
And then in around 2020, they decided to set up for more
11:40
formal startup team with dedicated team members.
11:43
And then a couple years later, after about five years at The
11:47
Next Web, I was ready for my next challenge.
11:50
And they asked if I would like to come and join and to Co lead
11:54
the the startup team over there. So that was on the one hand, the
11:59
easiest transition ever because I knew the team, I knew what
12:02
they were doing. That was, yeah, very, very, very
12:07
simple. On the other hand, I've suddenly
12:10
found myself diving into the world of topics like tax
12:13
finance, which are not my wheelhouse at all with my
12:18
aforementioned history degree. So I did feel a bit like an
12:23
imposter in that world because it's just not topics that I have
12:30
a lot of experience with. However, I think yeah, what I
12:34
just mentioned about switching between different topics and
12:38
trying to quickly grasp new concepts and then figure out
12:40
what to do with them, that's basically what I had to do in
12:42
this new role as well. And yeah, after a few months of
12:47
just listening to all my new colleagues and trying to
12:51
understand what they do and how that connects to
12:53
entrepreneurship, that I was able to, yeah, feel more
12:58
comfortable in that part. OK, how did you conquer the
13:01
imposter syndrome? Yeah, it's always a tricky 1,
13:05
isn't it? I think you have to just ignore
13:07
it to an extent at the beginning and just keep going fake to make
13:13
it a bit. But yeah, I think accepting that
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I don't need to be an expert on any of these topics actually,
13:22
like that's what I have my colleagues for.
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So my role is not to be an expert on entity structure.
13:28
My role is to be an expert on making the right connections and
13:32
understanding the stage of a company and what they might need
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and then bringing in the right person at the right time.
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How do you balance that? Because that that is a bit of
13:40
trick, I think of program management that you know enough
13:46
of what what your colleagues are doing that you can actually make
13:48
the right connections while also staying out of their lane.
13:54
Yeah, well, I mean, luckily it's it would be very difficult for
13:57
me to transition into the lane of the tax.
14:00
Yeah, OK. So there's no, there's no worry
14:04
there. Yeah.
14:07
I think just, I think it's always just having no shame
14:13
about asking what you might think are stupid questions to my
14:17
like, to my colleagues, for example.
14:18
If I'm not sure, then I just ask and that's always fine.
14:21
Even though I've been in this role for 3 1/2 years now, I
14:25
still just, you know, always want to double check or this or
14:28
that and they don't mind. That's fine.
14:31
So I think, yeah, just having a good relationship with people so
14:37
they also understand where you're coming from and what
14:39
you're doing is, is important. And not being ashamed if you
14:43
don't know the answers. Like that's OK can't know
14:46
everything. No, true.
14:48
Absolutely. Yeah.
14:50
And my, my boss at the time then also didn't know everything, but
14:56
she was remarkably good at connecting people and also have
15:00
getting to really indeed asking a lot of questions like, OK,
15:05
what does that mean? How does that impact etcetera?
15:12
So you've worked with quite a few founders I guess over the
15:17
over the years. What is something that you have
15:21
seen them struggle with that people outside start-ups don't
15:26
notice that easily? I think founders are people who
15:33
like to build stuff. They want to do things
15:36
themselves with their own two hands.
15:40
But I think a struggle is knowing when to outsource some
15:43
things because sometimes it's just more efficient and smarter
15:48
to bring in someone who knows, yeah, who is a specialist on a
15:53
specific topic. But I think if you're building
15:57
your own company, it's like your baby and, and it can be, yeah,
16:02
scary to bring in other people. So I think real strength is
16:06
knowing when to outsource and when to do something yourself.
16:09
What are questions that people should ask themselves or what
16:14
are questions that pop up in people's mind that should be
16:17
sort of a trigger? Like hey, maybe this is the
16:21
point I need to start outsourcing or I need to start
16:24
talking to people about outsourcing.
16:27
I think in the startup journey, in the very beginning, when
16:32
you're still figuring out the products and your, yeah, your
16:37
initial audience and those things, talking to people is
16:40
always important and that part of the journey just to get
16:42
validation. But you can do a lot of that
16:44
stuff yourself. If you've got a bit of traction
16:50
and you're looking to start scaling things up and you want
16:52
to professionalise your business in a way that will help you come
16:57
to the next level, I think then it can be really powerful to
17:01
brilliant specialists who can help you with certain parts of
17:04
of the business that you as the founder may not be the expert
17:07
in. So you can then focus on what
17:09
you do best, which is your your products, your customers, your
17:13
team, and not spread yourself too thin.
17:17
So I think understanding your strengths and weaknesses and
17:20
where you can most effectively put your time and energy and
17:23
where you can most effectively bringing others is of your
17:26
strength. And also looking at the team
17:28
that you have on the startup and then seeing, OK, what is missing
17:32
and maybe thinking that we could outsource unless it's of course
17:39
part of the core of of your activities because then then I
17:44
expect would expect people to hire.
17:47
Yeah, for sure. I think if it's your core
17:50
business and core activities, it's good to keep it close to
17:52
the team. But if it's other types of work,
17:56
then can be powerful to outsource.
17:59
Yeah, if you ever seen a founder realise, hey, this is like a lot
18:04
more complex than I thought it would be.
18:06
Definitely, I think. I think when people talk to us,
18:10
so using my current role as an example is the most fresh ideas
18:14
in my mind. When people come talk to us, it
18:18
usually means that they've already realized a topic is a
18:22
bit complex and they need some support.
18:25
But then there's often kind of layers within layers that they
18:29
didn't maybe expect to be there. So in the in the world of tax,
18:34
like different things that can either set up your company for
18:38
success or stand in your way that you maybe have no idea even
18:41
existed. And sometimes, yeah, that can be
18:46
a lot to try and digest and, and, and pick yourself as the
18:50
founder. Yeah.
18:52
So actually with most of the core topics that we that we
18:56
support with, there's usually more to it than than people
18:59
think. And they've already realised
19:01
that it's quite complex by the time they talk to us so.
19:03
Yeah, yeah, usually they will go for to you for a reason,
19:08
especially for the texts. I would expect that people
19:13
really easily book a slot, let's say at least to to.
19:19
It's not a topic that people often want to do themselves.
19:22
No that that and and it is really complex.
19:27
And if you get it right, you have a lot to win it.
19:29
But if you get it wrong you can also yeah leave a lot on the
19:33
table which is frustrating especially for a start up.
19:37
Yeah, for sure. Do the people that connect
19:43
startups to you, are those the founders that seek advice or are
19:47
those the investors who say, hey, maybe we need to talk to to
19:55
see how this, how we can structure this thing the right
19:59
way? A bit of both.
20:02
So we work with a lot of companies just directly.
20:05
We get a lot of referrals from other founders who've worked
20:08
with us and enjoyed the the experience.
20:11
Who then pass a message on to any friends in a similar
20:15
position. But yeah, we do also work with
20:17
some investors because they have more of a kind of overarching
20:21
view of, of companies and, and the, the, the plans to scale up
20:26
and the things that they maybe need to get in order.
20:31
Yeah, so it's a mix. We also work with some different
20:35
organisations like High Tech Excel down in Eindhoven,
20:39
different accelerated programs that have a similar kind of view
20:43
on the challenges of a startup and when it might be relevant to
20:46
introduce us. OK.
20:49
So there's there's ecosystem partners, there's the investors
20:52
and there's the the founders and then there's referrals.
20:56
Yeah, exactly. We tried to be active across the
20:59
whole ecosystem, really. OK.
21:01
So when we spoke before, we talked quite a bit about
21:04
networking and I want want to talk about that here on the on
21:10
the podcast as well, because she made a very interesting remark.
21:14
At least I thought it was really interesting that networking has
21:19
become more transactional. So let's let's let's say there's
21:24
less serendipity in there. Why does that matter?
21:29
Yeah. So that's the trend that I think
21:33
emerged from the COVID times and everything that changed during
21:39
that. During that period, people got
21:43
used to not leaving the house as much.
21:47
So when they do go to events and things, it's, yeah, they want to
21:52
make sure they know what the ROI is going to be from attending a
21:55
specific event, for example. I think that make, I think that
22:00
really matters because I think you miss a lot when you kind of
22:06
self curate the people that you're going to talk to before
22:09
you attend an event. If you miss the serendipitous
22:14
connections, I think then it keeps the community smaller, it
22:19
keeps the circles that you operate in less diverse, and you
22:24
miss out on a lot of inspiration and new ideas that could have
22:26
been waiting around the corner if you'd been more open to,
22:32
yeah, serendipitous connections. Yeah.
22:36
So you noticed this as part of COVID, but was it there before
22:41
already that you saw the shift or?
22:45
I think, yeah, could have been. But I think, I think it's two
22:49
things. I think it's Corona and the
22:51
behavioral shift that came as a result of being in lockdown for
22:54
a few years. And I think it's also a general
22:56
shift in the ecosystem as well. Then we went from more general
23:03
tech startup ecosystem events and community towards kind of
23:08
sub sects within the ecosystem depending on industry or profile
23:13
or whatever. I think that was probably
23:15
already brewing, but then the two kind of combined accelerated
23:21
that shift. Yeah.
23:22
And then so to when we opened up from lockdown in when was it
23:26
even 20? 22/23/22.
23:29
I expected it to kind of go back to normal, but it really didn't.
23:35
And I think you saw that in a few practical ways like people
23:40
just not showing up for events as well, you know, getting
23:42
really good sign up rate, but then the drop off being higher
23:45
compared to to previously. OK.
23:47
And on, on the drop off, because I, I also noticed that that part
23:53
that people stay away a lot easier.
23:59
Have you found a way to sort of combat that or to counter that
24:05
to, to make sure that people do attend?
24:08
Is that, is that, is that really in, in how you describe the ROI
24:13
or the payoff for the event? Or is how does it work?
24:17
Yeah, I think it's a bit of both, like making sure that it's
24:20
really clear what the event is about, what they can expect from
24:24
attending and also following through with that.
24:28
But we also moved more towards invite only events rather than a
24:36
general open public event. And when I say invite only, it
24:41
doesn't mean that it's because I just talked about self curation
24:44
and how that's not always a good thing.
24:45
So that might sound hypocritical.
24:48
We still remain open for application typically, so people
24:53
can still, yeah, reach out if they find it interesting.
24:59
However, yeah, I think sending personal invites definitely
25:04
makes people feel more responsible when it comes to
25:11
actually showing up for a session.
25:12
Yeah. Does it differ if if the
25:17
attendance is free or paid that people come have have more of a
25:24
sense of loss that if if they don't come?
25:28
I would assume so. I mean, we in my role now, we're
25:31
never doing paid events. So I don't have a lot of data to
25:36
back that up. But yeah, I think naturally if
25:39
if you've paid for something, then you'd probably think, Oh
25:41
well, I should just go. I'm not sure.
25:47
I think if people don't want to go, they just won't go.
25:50
And if it's a token amount like 5 euros, €10, then maybe they
25:54
just skip it. Yeah.
25:54
So I think personal connection and being clear about what
25:58
people can expect or get from the session.
26:02
OK, helps. Another thing you told me is
26:06
that you organise to, if you organise a general, let's say
26:11
mingling event, that it's primarily women who join.
26:16
Yeah. So we organised a session in
26:20
January which was a ecosystem drinks which had no agenda.
26:26
It was just a meet up for different people across the
26:30
start up ecosystem working at accelerators or programs.
26:34
And yeah, that's an example of a session which was invite only,
26:38
but people could reach out if they wanted to join.
26:42
And we had, yeah, quite a few women who are reaching out to
26:45
join that one. And yeah, I don't know, maybe I
26:47
don't like to generalize, but maybe I think women perhaps can
26:53
operate more easily in an informal social environment and
26:57
maybe value the serendipitous connections more.
27:02
But is is that something you've seen across more events?
27:07
Yeah, I think an example also is the the female founders brunch
27:15
that used to be organized at the Next Web and that was like AI
27:19
think quarterly or 3 * 2 three times a year.
27:24
And that was always packed out. And a big part of that event was
27:27
just open networking and there was always a lot, a lot of of
27:33
really nice connections coming out of that event.
27:36
So yeah, I think yeah, it is a trend that you see women more of
27:41
those kind of general open events.
27:44
Do you also see, let's say, more women investors enter the scene?
27:52
In general. Yeah.
27:55
Yeah, I think so, yeah. Or at least the VC firms have a
28:03
more diverse team in general. I think so.
28:08
Not necessarily always the partners, but the the team, but
28:13
kind of start somewhere with this with increasing diversity.
28:19
Yeah, I think compared to when I started my program manager role,
28:24
when was it? Well, nine years ago, eight
28:28
years ago at TQ, the investors were primarily male.
28:33
So that's definitely been a shift.
28:35
Is that is, does that also make it easier for women to connect
28:41
and get, let's say, find investors that they match with?
28:48
You think you see? I think, like you'd hope, the
28:55
answer is no, and that it is just it should be.
29:00
The gender of the investors shouldn't make a difference, and
29:03
the gender of the founder shouldn't make a difference.
29:05
But where we know it does. Yeah, I.
29:08
Mean from the statistics, it's not.
29:11
It's really obvious that it does.
29:13
Yeah, OK. I think I mean from personal
29:16
experience, I'll just speak from my own personal experience of
29:19
attending events when there's been majority male attendees, I
29:25
do find myself gravitating towards the other women in the
29:28
room because they find it easier to to connect with them and talk
29:30
to them. So I can imagine that's that's
29:33
also the same with with founders and investors.
29:37
It just breaks down some barriers that make the initial
29:40
conversation perhaps easier. Yeah, that.
29:43
That could very well be and, and I see that happen a lot by the
29:47
way, on on the events that I visit that women talk to women
29:52
and men talk to men. How do we get that to sort of
29:56
mingle? Yeah, Yeah.
29:58
Because you don't want to end up with a a situation where it's
30:01
completely segregated. That's not necessarily the goal.
30:08
Yeah, good question. Yeah.
30:11
Is that about more more general mingling events or do we then
30:15
risk demand not coming because they're so, so result oriented?
30:20
Yeah, maybe. I think with the general
30:27
mingling, like general open networking events like the one
30:31
that I mentioned in January, it still had a a target audience,
30:35
so like specifically ecosystem players, but then there wasn't a
30:40
set format. So I think having narrowing it
30:43
down in some way, but then having it open can like the
30:48
format be open is a is a nice combination.
30:52
But I think I do think the shift towards industry specific events
31:00
can also help with mixing, getting men and women also to
31:04
mix, yeah, more effectively because then they clearly have a
31:10
shared interest or area of activities.
31:15
So that makes I think you just need to break down, break down a
31:18
couple of barriers to to enable the conversation to flow.
31:23
Yeah. So make sure you you organise it
31:26
around the theme or about a specific group of of attendees
31:32
and then and then make it, let's say not really hyper structured.
31:38
Yeah, or in combination with with some content and then
31:41
having some other more. Yeah, that's that's also what my
31:44
experience has been by the way to to make it mix between on the
31:50
one hand content. So having a panel does work,
31:55
does help, especially if you if you have a couple of good names
31:59
and then but open networking usually also helps women come.
32:08
And also what I found I organized Co organized women's
32:13
only event or well, it was women in finance.
32:18
So sort of women oriented. I was the only man in the room.
32:24
What I did find is that it's if you were nice women's only
32:28
events that sort of makes it quote, UN quote safer because
32:35
you the women actually think like, OK, I can yes, I can ask
32:40
stupid questions or questions that I think are stupid and and
32:46
not me as a person by the way. And but but that yeah, yeah, the
32:50
the women who asked the question are thinking like, can I even
32:55
ask that? So maybe that's that's one thing
33:00
I would add is to make it also accept acceptable to ask, let's
33:07
say less obvious questions or really obvious questions.
33:11
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I know there are, there
33:15
are a few like women only organisations like Femstart for
33:21
example, that helping women to get more knowledge around
33:27
funding, finance and these topics.
33:29
We have a partnership with them as well.
33:31
And I think creating those environments to, to help educate
33:35
people on topics which maybe they have limited experience in,
33:39
but you don't want to necessarily admit that you don't
33:42
know the answers to those things if you're building your own
33:44
company, because it might, I don't know, you might feel like
33:50
you look like you don't know what you're talking about or
33:52
something. If you like an imposter.
33:55
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
33:57
Then I think, yeah, having those safe spaces as you called it is,
34:01
is really important to help level up the knowledge and
34:05
skills of people in a, in a way that's supportive.
34:09
Yeah. Is it also about, let's say I'm
34:14
thinking of this as we speak, by the way, that it's also about
34:19
expectations we have of a founder that they know
34:22
everything? Yeah, it kind of goes back to
34:26
when you outsource, when you don't that that topic as well.
34:32
Yeah, I think it's definitely unrealistic for a founder to be
34:36
an expert in every area of business.
34:38
And some will be more product oriented, some will be more team
34:44
oriented, some will be more business oriented.
34:46
And then it's about building the right team around you.
34:49
But I think it's difficult in the early stages when you are
34:52
maybe one or two people just getting started.
34:54
You do need to wear many, many hats and then having kind of
34:59
these environments where you can learn enough to get going until
35:05
you've got to a stage where you can start bringing in more team
35:07
members or or external specialists.
35:10
It's really important part of the process.
35:13
Yeah. So I want to shift a bit back to
35:16
our prep call because you said something interesting on our
35:20
prep call. I don't know if I have anything
35:25
interesting to say, which sort of leans back to me to the
35:29
imposter syndrome. And it's also sentiment that I
35:36
hear a lot on on Prep calls on when I talk to women about being
35:45
on the podcast or even having a general conversation with them
35:50
that they they sort of shy away from seeking the attention.
35:58
You're on the podcast now, so you do because I do think you
36:03
have something interesting to say.
36:05
What would you say to other women who are hesitant to share
36:09
their stories? Yeah.
36:11
Well, I think, yeah, for me, maybe that comes from always
36:15
being in a more of a, excuse me, facilitator roles.
36:20
And my jobs have always being in the role creating space for
36:24
other people who have an idea or a passion or something that they
36:27
want to share. And then it's not that I don't
36:29
want want to be in the spotlight because I don't mind
36:32
facilitating sessions or hosting, That's fine.
36:37
But then I'm supporting someone else sharing their ideas.
36:41
And I I like being that in that role.
36:43
But maybe I somewhere along the line internalized that I'm not
36:46
the one with the interesting story, just the one asking the
36:48
questions to the other person. I guess women typically fill the
36:55
facilitator role more often than men.
36:57
I don't know. But I think maybe we're also
37:00
naturally more self deprecating, which, yeah, can be a hindrance
37:07
when it comes to if somebody wants to spotlight you what you
37:10
have to say. But yeah, if I heard someone
37:14
else saying there's another woman, I would complete, I would
37:17
say stop being ridiculous. That's that's nonsense because
37:20
in the end everybody has an interesting point of view and
37:23
personal experience that other people can learn from, but it's
37:28
just hard to to see when it's yourself sometimes.
37:31
Why is that? Well, I mean, you know your
37:33
story already, so it's not new or original to you, It's just
37:37
obvious because you've experienced it all.
37:39
And it's easy to forget that other people haven't experienced
37:42
your life, so it's hard to sometimes see what's interesting
37:48
about your story that other people might be wanting to hear
37:50
about. Yeah.
37:52
So how do you get out of that? How do you sort of move beyond
37:56
that? I guess just just if you have an
38:01
opportunity, don't, don't shy away from it.
38:04
So, well, thanks to you, now I'm doing my first podcast, which is
38:08
a yeah, definitely out of my comfort zone for sure.
38:14
But I think, yeah, practice makes perfect.
38:15
And the more people you speak to and Share your story with,
38:19
probably the more responses you have that you do have something
38:22
interesting to say. Get out there and do it.
38:25
Absolutely. And if I can add one thing for
38:29
for the people who are contemplating being a guest,
38:32
it's always if if you don't ask, you don't get hurt.
38:37
Yeah. And if I think if you're a
38:41
founder or if you're an investor looking for, let's say deal
38:46
flow, then it makes sense at least to be seen and heard as a
38:51
person. So it also contributes to to the
38:55
bigger goal. So in that sense, I think it's
38:57
also a natural part of being an entrepreneur or an investor that
39:03
that you create some visibility around yourself.
39:07
Definitely, yeah. I suppose the difference is that
39:10
I'm not a founder or an investor.
39:11
So then personally I think, oh, I shouldn't be in the spotlight
39:16
because I'm just doing facilitational.
39:21
Yeah, you are. Now you're also becoming a mum
39:26
soon, in three months from the day of recording.
39:29
Yes. Has that changed your look at
39:34
the startup ecosystem in the sense that it's startup
39:37
ecosystem is of course always on and always bustling and always
39:43
something is happening and there's events, especially this
39:45
time of year. So we're recording this in March
39:49
2026. So there's like, I think
39:52
everyday like 5 events that you can go to.
39:57
How, How does where? How has maybe even becoming a
40:02
mother changed that? Few has it.
40:06
It's hard to say just yet because I haven't obviously had
40:09
my child yet, but I have experienced having more limited
40:14
capacity. So unfortunately I suffered from
40:17
really bad nausea and sickness for about 10 weeks in the first
40:22
trimester. And then I just couldn't really
40:24
do as much as I could. And then you just feel things
40:30
passing you by, lots of events happening that they didn't go to
40:34
or, you know, opportunities that they didn't pick up.
40:39
Yeah. So I think that's, that's
40:40
tricky, but it is the nature of the beast.
40:44
And I don't think there's, I don't think it should change
40:48
necessarily because it's a fast-paced environment and
40:53
that's just how it is. But it will be interesting to
40:56
see how I navigate that once I have a child.
41:02
I think you have to just become a bit more.
41:04
That's the word not critical, but you have to decide where to
41:10
put your energy and your time. But.
41:14
Perhaps takes us back to the shift of being more ROI driven
41:18
with which events you're going to go to, for example.
41:24
Yeah, so I think finding a balance between staying open but
41:29
also being effective with your time is going to be the trick.
41:34
And I'm always so impressed by founders who have got young
41:38
kids, men and women. Have you talked to any for
41:44
advice? I have colleagues who recently
41:47
had kids so spoken to them and some friends but not to say
41:53
founders no, just admired them from a distance.
41:57
OK, what do you admire about them?
42:01
Yeah, just the ability to juggle so many things and having a real
42:06
life child and A and a business child probably it's a, it's a
42:10
tough balance to strike when both demand your attention.
42:15
Yeah, I can imagine that it would be difficult to to strike
42:18
that balance. I only have a business child, so
42:21
I don't have to worry about the, let's say the physical children
42:26
part. But even that is already quite.
42:31
Quite demanding. Yeah, quite demand, yeah.
42:33
Or consuming I suppose. Well, yeah, also consuming, but
42:38
it's also demanding in in a positive way, by the way.
42:41
So don't you. Don't hear me complain.
42:46
What's something you've learned along the way of ever since you
42:51
started working that you want to pass on to your child?
42:57
I would love to encourage my child to have strange interests
43:03
and hobbies, to pursue different, yeah, different
43:09
things and create things rather than just consuming things.
43:15
I think in the world at large, there's like with social media
43:18
and everything, it's so easy just to get sucked into your
43:21
phone and just spend hours watching stupid content and not
43:25
actually do something. And I think being in the start
43:29
up environment, you're constantly surrounded by people
43:32
who have taken an interest and turned it into something, a new
43:37
product or a business. And that seems to be incredibly
43:42
rewarding. So I would love to pass that on
43:45
to my child and encourage them to, yeah, have interests in
43:53
different things. And I think I don't have my own
43:55
startup, but I definitely have lots of different interests and
43:58
things. And it's something that enriches
44:01
my life inside and outside of work.
44:03
Yeah, do you? Do you want your child to be a
44:05
founder if if he or she actually has that ambition?
44:13
I mean, if that's what they want, then yeah, for sure I
44:16
would support that. But I don't think I wouldn't, I
44:22
wouldn't force it upon, I wouldn't force anything upon my
44:25
child. But yeah, I think it's a it's a
44:28
really interesting career path to choose and that can be very
44:34
challenging but also very rewarding.
44:37
So it could be a great path, but let's see, who knows what
44:40
they're going to be into. Yeah.
44:42
As long as they have interest in something, that's OK.
44:45
Yeah. So that sounds like a great
44:47
place to transition to. My final question that I have
44:51
for you. I'm building an app that
44:53
connects female founders with investors.
44:56
So the the aim over time is to close the the funding gap.
45:00
You did a lot of facilitation, organised a lot of events, you
45:07
connected a lot of people. What makes a meaningful
45:10
connection to you? I think a meaningful connection
45:15
can come from two different things, and if you're lucky, you
45:19
have both of them in one go. 1 is a great match in terms of
45:25
your energy or interest or your vibe.
45:28
And if you just hit it off with somebody and sometimes, you
45:31
know, two people in your network and you think, yes, those
45:34
people, people need to meet. I don't know what for, but they
45:37
just need to be in touch because eventually they could support
45:41
each other or something could come a bit.
45:44
So I think a great connection on that level makes a, makes a
45:49
meaningful connection. And the second one is, yeah,
45:53
having a concrete or an actionable follow up from a,
45:57
from a connection. So not just a general ask, but
46:01
really specific, really easy to say yes or no or OK, this is the
46:06
next step that's also essential for a connection to be
46:12
meaningful and valuable for both parties.
46:15
And if you're lucky, you have both of those things in one.
46:19
But I think even if you just have one of those things, it's
46:21
also still very. Yeah, it's especially the energy
46:26
part I find really helpful if it if it comes to connections, but
46:31
also if you can actually give people a reason to connect with
46:35
each other and follow up and make something happen because
46:39
sometimes how do you deal with that?
46:41
Just wondering, how do you deal with that?
46:45
If you see something, if you see two people match how and they
46:51
don't immediately pick up on it, what do you do?
46:56
On, on why they should be connected.
47:00
Yeah, I'm kind of, I'll just bust in there and be like, you
47:04
need to talk about this topic because you do X and you do Y.
47:08
So I have kind of a brazen approach to that, which I think
47:13
can be a bit awkward, but it just gets straight to the point.
47:15
And I don't mind being awkward if it's going to result in a
47:20
good in a good connection. I don't, I think that's fine.
47:23
So that's usually my approach. So beware, if you see me coming
47:26
over an event then you know I'm about to make some connection
47:29
for you. Well, and that's usually
47:31
positive I would say. So that's that's the goal.
47:35
Yeah, easy Sayers. Thank you very much.
47:38
Really enjoyed our conversation. If people would like to learn
47:41
more about you or maybe also about gay PMG emerging giants,
47:47
where would you like to send them?
47:50
They can connect to me on LinkedIn.
47:51
I think that's always easiest. Always happy to meet new people,
47:55
have a chat, grab a coffee and yeah, thanks a lot for having me
48:00
on. You're welcome, and yeah, thanks
48:03
for being my guest sharing your story.
48:06
Listeners, thank you very much for listening.
48:09
And until the next episode, as always, keep being awesome.
48:24
Well, that's it. Thank you for listening to
48:26
episode 152 of women Distorting Tech titled Why Female Founders
48:32
Don't need to know everything to scale with Easy Sayers Easy.
48:36
And I hope that you found our conversation as empowering and
48:39
serendipitous as we intended it to be.
48:42
And if you have any questions for Easy, please leave them in
48:46
the comments section on Spotify, YouTube and or Apple Podcasts.
48:50
I do read all the comments and I'll make sure you get an
48:53
answer. If you want to connect with Easy
48:55
or learn more about how the KPMG Emerging Giants team can help
48:59
your startup skill, please check out the links in the show notes.
49:03
As usual, you can find the show notes at Women Disrupting Tech
49:06
Talk blog and on my sub stack. Find the links in the caption.
49:10
If you found this episode usual, I'd love for you to take a
49:13
moment to rate and review the show on Spotify, Apple Podcast,
49:17
or YouTube. And if you don't follow us yet,
49:20
please hit the follow or subscribe button so you'll never
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49:27
listening. I hope to see you in the next
49:29
episode, and until then, as always, keep being awesome.