Latest / Witness the Wonder Christian Podcast: Supernatural Christian Testimonies, Miracles, and God Stories / When You Have Nothing Left to Lose | Charlene Quint's God Story of Leaving a 21-Year Abusive Marriage

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When You Have Nothing Left to Lose | Charlene Quint's God Story of Leaving a 21-Year Abusive Marriage · Witness the Wonder Christian Podcast: Supernatural Christian Testimonies, Miracles, and God Stories

• 0:00
  I'm losing my marriage, I'm losing my home, I'm losing my
• 0:03
  kids, I've lost my church, I've lost a lot of friends.
• 0:07
  And I thought, but the one thing I'm not losing is God.
• 0:19
  Welcome to Witness the Wonder. I'm your host, Christina Smith.
• 0:22
  Charlene, thank you so much for being here.
• 0:25
  I really appreciate you joining me today.
• 0:28
  I'd like to start where we always do, at the story.
• 0:31
  Would you mind sharing your story and just begin wherever
• 0:34
  you like to start? Yes, well, thank you for having
• 0:36
  me on Christina. It's such a privilege and a joy
• 0:39
  to be with you today. I guess I'll start my story on
• 0:42
  April 6th, 2012. That was the day I decided I
• 0:48
  would no longer live in abuse. I packed a small overnight bag
• 0:52
  in the trunk of my car and I drove away like I was going to
• 0:55
  work. I went into hiding for 2 1/2
• 0:58
  years. That started God's rescue
• 1:00
  mission on me to get out of abuse.
• 1:02
  To get out of a 21 year abuse of marriage from a wealthy
• 1:06
  businessman who is very powerful and had plenty of money at his
• 1:09
  disposal to make it miserable to leave and miserable to stay.
• 1:13
  And that started my story of redemption.
• 1:15
  To do what I'm doing now, which is as a family law attorney, I
• 1:19
  help women get out of domestic abuse situations.
• 1:22
  I'm also an advocate. I run a nationwide Bible study
• 1:25
  and support group for women who are healing from abuse.
• 1:29
  I teach churches and educate and equip pastors and church leaders
• 1:32
  on how to handle domestic abuse when it arises in their church
• 1:36
  because it is so prevalent. That's God's redemptive power,
• 1:40
  that what He can do after many, many years in an abusive
• 1:43
  relationship. So what was your faith like
• 1:46
  during that season of a that 21 year marriage?
• 1:50
  I've always been a woman of faith.
• 1:52
  I became a Christian and as a young child and have been, you
• 1:57
  know, a believer my, my whole life.
• 2:00
  I went to church. I brought my children up in
• 2:02
  church, so my faith was there, but it grew to a different level
• 2:08
  after I was out from under that cloud of darkness and oppression
• 2:11
  and abuse. Because when we are in that, we
• 2:15
  really can't fully be the women that God has called us to be
• 2:18
  because we are so busy dealing with the abuse that's in our
• 2:22
  homes, in our lives, and it affects everything we do.
• 2:26
  So yes, I was a Christian and very active in my church.
• 2:30
  I was on the board of deacons. I've been a Sunday school
• 2:33
  teacher. I've done a mission trips on the
• 2:34
  board of Trinity International University on their Board of
• 2:38
  Regents. I taught, I taught at Trinity as
• 2:42
  a as an adjunct professor and I was of course a attorney.
• 2:46
  But you know, my faith certainly grew to a different level after
• 2:50
  I came out. You really had to trust God on a
• 2:52
  whole new level when you took that step of faith to pack those
• 2:57
  bags and walk out the door. Was there a moment when
• 3:00
  something just shifted internally for you that said
• 3:03
  enough? I mean, 21 years is a long time
• 3:06
  to endure. Right, right.
• 3:08
  Here's The thing is that abuse escalates over time.
• 3:11
  So what starts out as maybe emotional abuse or or just
• 3:15
  unthoughtfulness and carelessness, it increases
• 3:18
  there's financial abuse. I think a lot of people don't
• 3:21
  recognize that emotional and financial abuse are present in
• 3:25
  100% of abusive relationships. It's not just hitting.
• 3:28
  And so you don't really, a lot of Christian women don't
• 3:31
  recognize these. This is abusive because they're
• 3:35
  not being hit, right? And I was one of them.
• 3:37
  It's like, wow, I knew things weren't working out.
• 3:39
  Something just wasn't right. No matter what I did, no matter
• 3:42
  how many marriage books I read counseling it, nothing worked.
• 3:45
  And it because it's not a marriage issue, it's a sin
• 3:48
  issue, right? So none of that was working.
• 3:50
  There was a time where things had escalated to a point where
• 3:54
  it wasn't safe for me. And so I finally said, he's not
• 3:57
  repenting, He's not changing. I need to get out for my, my, my
• 4:01
  own safety. So I left and was very scared,
• 4:03
  like most women are. I, at that point wasn't really
• 4:06
  sure how things were going to turn out.
• 4:08
  I know God had his promises, but I was, I was, I was almost 50
• 4:12
  years old and I really didn't want to start life anew, but I
• 4:15
  couldn't go back to how it was you.
• 4:16
  Said you had kids. How many kids did you have?
• 4:19
  I had three children. By the time you left, were they
• 4:21
  all grown at that point? 11 was out of the house, so 1
• 4:25
  was 1 was an adult and out of college, one was in high school
• 4:28
  and one was in 8th. Grade so you can speak to this
• 4:31
  because you've worked with women that you know in this situation
• 4:34
  for so long and we're one. Do you think a lot of women stay
• 4:37
  because of the kids sick? Absolutely.
• 4:39
  You know, I have the top 10 reasons that women stay the
• 4:42
  number one being, you know, finances.
• 4:44
  A lot of women want to leave, but they've given up a career or
• 4:47
  job or are just not able to support themselves.
• 4:50
  They don't have any savings. One of the major reasons that
• 4:53
  women stay is for the kids. They don't want to blow up their
• 4:56
  home. The children are the most
• 4:58
  important thing in the world to them.
• 4:59
  Of course, they want their children to have a dad in their
• 5:03
  life, but they also know that this is really an healthy
• 5:08
  situation, so they try to stay so that they can protect the
• 5:11
  children. That's what I did.
• 5:12
  I stayed to protect the children so they wouldn't incur dad's
• 5:15
  wrath, you know, all the time. But they end up leaving.
• 5:18
  Many women end up leaving because they realize at one
• 5:21
  point that they cannot protect their children from dad, and
• 5:24
  he's having much more of a impact on them and they can't
• 5:28
  protect them anymore. That's when they leave.
• 5:31
  The premise of Witness the Wonder is for us to look back
• 5:34
  over our stories of over our situations and see how how God
• 5:38
  has been working through it the entire time.
• 5:41
  How was God working in your journey of that 21 year
• 5:45
  marriage? How much time do we have?
• 5:47
  You go ahead, you this is all about God, so you go ahead.
• 5:51
  You talk. You talk about him all you want.
• 5:53
  He's it's when you get out and you look back and you can see
• 5:58
  where God has showed up in your life and not realizing it.
• 6:02
  It's a humbling experience. First of all, when I left, he
• 6:05
  provide I was able to get an apartment and I went into
• 6:08
  hiding, but I went in a different town.
• 6:10
  I moved half an hour away so that nobody could find me, but
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  he provided that. I mean, those were resources
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  that I had that I could get an apartment and get out and go
• 6:19
  into hiding. And, and when I look back during
• 6:23
  the marriage, I didn't have a law degree when I started the
• 6:26
  marriage. I was in my late 20s, hadn't
• 6:28
  gone to law school. But here's what prompted me to
• 6:31
  go to law school the day before the wedding.
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  My husband insisted, demanded that I sign a 28 page prenuptial
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  agreement. Now, unbeknownst to me, he had
• 6:40
  tons of money and lots of power and he was a businessman.
• 6:43
  I was at 20 something year old single mom because I had a 5
• 6:47
  year old from a previous relationship that was not
• 6:50
  working out either. I thought, OK, well, what do I
• 6:53
  do with this? He made sure that I had to quit
• 6:55
  my job because he coerced me to do that and said you don't need
• 6:58
  your income, you can travel with me.
• 7:00
  Just to let you know, that's one of the hallmarks of financial
• 7:04
  abuse. They make sure that you're
• 7:05
  completely dependent on them. So I didn't have a job because I
• 7:07
  had quit and the invitations were sent out and I had a
• 7:10
  wedding the next day. And so I had this prenuptial
• 7:13
  agreement and when I looked around the office, I saw these
• 7:17
  attorneys making hundreds of dollars an hour.
• 7:19
  I was just bawling my eyes out, just one of those horrible,
• 7:23
  ugly, ugly cries, just a gut punch.
• 7:25
  And I thought, this is no way to start a marriage.
• 7:28
  The only people that are going to be happy are those lawyers
• 7:31
  that are making all this money. And so I thought, how am I going
• 7:34
  to support myself? Because obviously we have a
• 7:37
  situation here. That's when I decided to go to
• 7:39
  law school, so I was able to have an education.
• 7:42
  So even that horrible situation, God used that and I gave him my
• 7:47
  law degree. I said, Lord, however you want
• 7:49
  to use this law degree, you use it.
• 7:51
  So I was able to use that for his, for his purposes.
• 7:54
  At the end of the marriage, I looked back and I saw that
• 7:57
  prenuptial agreement, at least it was a contract where I would
• 7:59
  get something when I got out as opposed to my husband who was
• 8:03
  wanted to give me nothing when I got out.
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  That was his whole and that was his argument that I should get
• 8:07
  nothing. But I had a contract.
• 8:09
  And so that was God's provision for me, even though it was a
• 8:11
  very difficult 21 years, knowing this is basically an employment
• 8:16
  agreement, that's what it was. But that was my saving grace
• 8:19
  because we could lean back on this contract and get something.
• 8:23
  But going forward, God the open doors to a good church that is
• 8:27
  filled with the Holy Spirit that supported women, that had women
• 8:30
  on their board, that just took me in.
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  I joined a group of wonderful spirit filled women who gave me
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  a whole nother idea of how big God is and how he loves his
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  daughters and how he talks to us and fills us with his spirit.
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  So that was like an amazing journey with this group of women
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  that was very healing and with this church that was very
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  supportive. I'm compared to the church that
• 8:51
  I had left to of course supported my ex-husband and even
• 8:55
  remarried him in the church despite knowing knowing all the
• 8:59
  abuse that that had occurred. He called me to this ministry to
• 9:03
  use my law degree to help women out of abuser relationships in
• 9:06
  the courtroom. He called me to to start helping
• 9:09
  women in support groups joined with a local domestic violence
• 9:13
  organization and help them start support groups in the area.
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  And then when they shut down during COVID, I started my own
• 9:19
  with faith-based support groups and taken off.
• 9:22
  We've had just dozens and dozens of women come through.
• 9:25
  And he called me to write this book, this, you know, 4 LB book
• 9:29
  that's almost 600 pages to help women first recognize what
• 9:33
  they've gone through and, and get out safely and, and heal and
• 9:37
  become the woman God designed them to be.
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  So that was the first book that came out in 2020.
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  And then he called me to write this other book for other Bible
• 9:43
  studies. And because there's really no
• 9:45
  other workbooks out there, if a church wanted to start up a
• 9:49
  Bible study or support group for women healing from abuse, there
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  wasn't anything. So I'm like, well, why don't I
• 9:54
  just write it and then other people can use it?
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  So he's guided me every step of the way and surrounded me with
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  wonderful people. Yes, I love it.
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  Well, many listeners are coming into this conversation after
• 10:07
  hearing Chelsea Fein's story last week about leaving an
• 10:10
  abusive marriage and feeling unsupported by her church.
• 10:12
  And it sounds like you had that same experience.
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  As you reflect back on your own journey and that situation with
• 10:20
  your church, what do you think is most important for people to
• 10:23
  understand about faith in seasons like that, where they're
• 10:26
  not being maybe supported in the way that they had hoped they
• 10:29
  would? Yeah.
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  So the one thing that I think it's important to know is that
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  churches that don't support victims of domestic abuse, I'm
• 10:37
  not reflecting the heart of God. So stick with God.
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  Even if you can't stick with your church because it's not a
• 10:42
  safe place for you anymore. Stick with God because those are
• 10:45
  like we all are fallen, you know, sinful people who don't
• 10:48
  always know God's heart or reflect God's heart.
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  But keep your relationship with God, even if you have to leave a
• 10:54
  church and to find another church that is more supportive
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  of you. When I was in that period of
• 10:59
  life, I, I thought, OK, my, I'm losing my marriage.
• 11:02
  I'm losing the home that I lived in for time.
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  I've lost my kids because abusers will always try to
• 11:08
  alienate the children from the, from the victim.
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  I've lost my church that I had spent, you know, 20 years with.
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  I've lost a lot of friends because they believed his lies,
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  because that's what they do. They play the victim and and you
• 11:23
  know, say you blame everything on the other side and I'm live
• 11:26
  about the victim. And I, my career was that, you
• 11:29
  know, had gone in the tank because I just couldn't
• 11:32
  concentrate going through this at home.
• 11:34
  I was just having a hard time concentrating.
• 11:36
  So even my career was I was losing that.
• 11:38
  And I thought, but the one thing I'm not losing is God because I
• 11:41
  know his voice. I read about him and in in the
• 11:44
  Bible, I know his heart and his heart is for me.
• 11:47
  He has told us his mission statement and he's told us the
• 11:50
  enemy's mission statement. The enemy's mission statement is
• 11:52
  is simple. He's come to steal, kill and
• 11:54
  destroy and that's what domestic abuse is.
• 11:56
  But God's mission statement is clear too.
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  It's like he's come so we can have abundant life.
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  So just hang on to those promises.
• 12:02
  Get to know your God in a real way.
• 12:04
  When I went through that period, I would sit for hours with my
• 12:08
  Bible and really I started from beginning to end and just as the
• 12:11
  Holy Spirit to teach me during those those times, the words
• 12:15
  jumped out of the page and said this is what's God's saying
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  about evil. He hates evil.
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  He calls it an abomination and of course domestic abuse is an
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  abomination. But it just reinforced to me,
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  wow, God is really for his daughters.
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  His his the victims of of of evil.
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  And so hang on to that and then he will put good people in your
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  life. Once you get rid of the toxicity
• 12:40
  and the darkness that that you've been living out from
• 12:43
  under and follow him, he will put the people in your life.
• 12:46
  Psalm 23 is a common, well known Psalm, but it really reflects
• 12:50
  the life cycle of a person of faith.
• 12:53
  We go through these valleys. We're not meant to camp there,
• 12:56
  right? That's a, a temporary place that
• 12:58
  God will be with us. He, he honors us in front of our
• 13:03
  enemies and then surely goodness and mercy shall follow us all
• 13:07
  the days of our lives. Yes, he pours out his blessings
• 13:10
  on those who seek him and then we dwell on the hassle work
• 13:13
  forever. So, you know, that's that's the
• 13:15
  answer. It's really the life cycle.
• 13:17
  And I've seen that in my life. I've seen that in the lives of
• 13:19
  so many women that I've counseled and represented.
• 13:22
  Yes, I totally agree. So many times people like to
• 13:25
  blame God in those types of situations and it's maybe part
• 13:28
  of the journey process. Like God, why are you allowing
• 13:30
  this? I get it.
• 13:31
  But he's there. All is all along comforting and
• 13:35
  helping along the way. All we have to do is reach out.
• 13:37
  So I love that you saw that in your journey and that you're
• 13:41
  sharing that because yes, it can be a lot of people when they're
• 13:44
  hurt by the church, whatever the situation may be, they want to
• 13:49
  blame God. And you know, just like you and
• 13:51
  me, people are people. We're all capable of sinning and
• 13:55
  falling short doesn't make it right.
• 13:57
  I'm not 100% advocating for churches to act poorly because
• 14:00
  we are supposed to be individuals who look and act
• 14:04
  like Christ Jesus told us, love God with all your heart, soul,
• 14:08
  mine, and love our neighbor as ourself.
• 14:10
  And so in everything we should do, we should do it with love.
• 14:14
  We should lead with love. And so I love that.
• 14:17
  And I love that it sounds like you're in a church now that is
• 14:21
  supportive of women in this situation.
• 14:23
  So that's amazing. I love that you've had both
• 14:26
  experiences because it helps equip you for where he has you.
• 14:29
  Now. I want to take a moment to thank
• 14:31
  one of our Season 2 partners. Many people are asking how to
• 14:35
  protect what they've worked so hard to build, especially in
• 14:39
  seasons of economic uncertainty. Birch Gold helps individuals
• 14:43
  diversify their savings with physical gold and silver.
• 14:46
  If you'd like to learn more or get their free information kit,
• 14:49
  you'll find the link at christinasmithofficial.com
• 14:52
  That's Christina Smith official.com.
• 14:55
  God doesn't waste anything that we walk through.
• 14:57
  The common theme throughout Witness the Wonder is God takes
• 15:01
  the things we walk through and he turns it around and then he
• 15:05
  allows us to use it and many times it becomes a ministry.
• 15:10
  And I know that is, as you mentioned, a big part of your
• 15:13
  heart is working with churches on how to respond well in those
• 15:17
  situations involving, you know, abuse.
• 15:21
  If there's pastors or church leaders that are listening
• 15:23
  today, what would you want them to understand about how to care
• 15:28
  for women in abusive relationships or that are trying
• 15:31
  to come out of abusive relationships?
• 15:34
  There's a lot, but I would say call me and I'll come to your
• 15:39
  church and and do a workshop because that's what I do.
• 15:42
  I'm from the Chicago area and we have the Chicago Bears.
• 15:46
  I have a little acronym called Go Bears.
• 15:49
  That helps us remember. So the first one is B for
• 15:52
  believe, believe the victim. It has taken her probably years
• 15:56
  to come to you if she's a married woman to to pour out her
• 16:00
  soul. She's gone through marriage
• 16:01
  books. She's gone to counseling.
• 16:04
  She has endured. And by the time she gets to a
• 16:08
  pastor or a church leader to tell her story, she is
• 16:11
  exhausted. And so the first thing is err on
• 16:14
  the side of belief, but believe the victim and affirm her abuse
• 16:19
  is a choice by the abuser. It's not her fault.
• 16:21
  So validate her, listen to her, believe her.
• 16:24
  The second thing on the BEARS acronym is EI would say educate
• 16:28
  yourself, your staff, your leadership and your church about
• 16:31
  domestic abuse. It is a complicated subject.
• 16:34
  I think one of the things that pastors want to believe is that
• 16:38
  everybody in their congregation is kind and considerate.
• 16:42
  And if they just hear how something is hurting somebody,
• 16:44
  they will, that person will stop doing it and be like Christ.
• 16:48
  And that is not the case. I mean, abusers do it
• 16:51
  intentionally. It's not like an accident.
• 16:53
  They know what they're doing. And so I think that's very hard
• 16:55
  for some pastors to understand. So they need to get educated
• 16:59
  about what abuse is, what the characteristics of abusers are
• 17:03
  and the effect of on the victim. Take classes, take up.
• 17:07
  There's a 40 hour training class that that is offered by the
• 17:11
  Coalition against Domestic Violence.
• 17:12
  It's offered in every state. They can take part of it online,
• 17:15
  read books about it, read my book about it.
• 17:17
  It's like I said, it's almost 600 pages.
• 17:19
  It's been referred to as the Bible or the encyclopedia of
• 17:24
  domestic abuse by counselors and pastors and others.
• 17:27
  So educate yourself. The other thing for AI would say
• 17:30
  has some accountability for the abuser because all too often
• 17:34
  church leaders in general just don't like to impose church
• 17:37
  discipline. So the the abuser has no
• 17:41
  accountability when there's no action taken to hold them
• 17:44
  accountable. If you have a fight between a
• 17:46
  tiger and a Bunny and you say, I'm not going to get involved,
• 17:49
  what's going to happen? The tiger is going to destroy
• 17:51
  the Bunny. And that's what happens in these
• 17:53
  situations. So when pastors say I don't want
• 17:55
  to get involved, that's that's what happens.
• 17:58
  It's really the responsibility of churches to be involved and
• 18:01
  to lead the way in this. So, so they need to work with
• 18:04
  abusers to to get them to repent.
• 18:07
  If they can repent. And if not, then then they
• 18:10
  absolutely always need to support the victim in this, in
• 18:13
  this situation. Oftentimes I think they put
• 18:16
  marriage on this pedestal over the safety of of a the woman or
• 18:20
  over the victims. So accountability.
• 18:22
  And part of that may be you can't come to this church
• 18:25
  anymore. And what happens when they
• 18:26
  don't? That woman has to leave her
• 18:28
  church like I did and like millions of other women do when
• 18:31
  when the when the church chooses to do nothing.
• 18:34
  So yeah, the R in the Bear stands for referring her to
• 18:39
  domestic abuse professionals and reporting pastors and, and many
• 18:43
  church leaders are mandated reporters.
• 18:46
  So if there's children involved, they need to report abuse and
• 18:50
  that's in every state. So mandated reporters, they also
• 18:53
  need to refer her to people who are professionals in the area of
• 18:57
  domestic abuse. And that's usually not pastors.
• 19:00
  They like to sometimes think that, Oh well, I'll just come in
• 19:02
  for some pastoral counseling. Even even counselors with
• 19:06
  counseling degrees are often not equipped to deal with domestic
• 19:09
  abuse. There's just it's a unique
• 19:11
  subset of that. So referring her to a local
• 19:14
  domestic abuse organization, a counselor who deals with trauma
• 19:18
  informed therapy and domestic abuse, they may have to refer
• 19:21
  her to get an order protection because this is something that
• 19:24
  she she's going to need for herself and her children.
• 19:26
  They may need to refer her to law enforcement.
• 19:28
  And a lot of women are afraid to involve law enforcement and
• 19:32
  they're afraid to get an order protection, but that's, that's
• 19:36
  exactly what they need when they refer to counselors.
• 19:39
  They need to know that marriage counseling or couples counseling
• 19:42
  is contraindicated when there's abuse involved.
• 19:45
  It's not a marriage issue, it's a sin issue.
• 19:47
  And so she needs her own separate counseling and he
• 19:50
  needs, he needs separate counseling as well so he can
• 19:53
  recognize his sin and she can recognize it for what it is.
• 19:57
  They actually may need to refer her to legal counsel as well.
• 20:00
  And then finally S there's. Support her, make sure she has
• 20:05
  safety and safe housing. You know she may have to leave
• 20:08
  the house with the children, so make sure that she has a place
• 20:11
  to live. Check in with her and and for
• 20:14
  emotional support, nothing else. Just so that she knows that her
• 20:17
  church family is, is supporting her emotionally and financially.
• 20:20
  Again, the number one reason that women stay in abusive
• 20:24
  relationships is because they don't have the finances.
• 20:26
  They've often been told they have to give up their their
• 20:29
  jobs. That's another way to have
• 20:30
  complete control over her. So they don't don't have the
• 20:33
  finances being able to help pay either legal bills or maybe help
• 20:37
  with with rent or help getting their job to or maybe, maybe she
• 20:41
  can move in with someone temporarily so that she has a
• 20:43
  safe place. So people don't talk about this,
• 20:45
  right? You don't go to church or you
• 20:47
  don't tell your friends. Well, my husband did so and so
• 20:49
  because the people would look askance at you and the church,
• 20:52
  the church reaction would be like, oh, don't speak badly
• 20:55
  about your husband, right. So we, we carry this all by
• 20:58
  ourselves. And so we look around and think
• 21:00
  everybody's marriage is happy except for mine.
• 21:02
  And I'm dealing with this behind closed doors in secret.
• 21:05
  And that has been the experience, the people that I
• 21:08
  have represented in court and the people who come to the Bible
• 21:11
  studies as they feel like they are the only one.
• 21:13
  They don't know who else is going to this.
• 21:16
  Maybe they don't have a domestic violence organization local.
• 21:20
  And and again, Christian women often don't think they're in an
• 21:24
  abusive situation because they're not getting it and
• 21:27
  they're going to church and their husband claims to be a
• 21:29
  Christian. So they don't recognize that
• 21:32
  they are the, you know, verbal and emotional and spiritual and
• 21:37
  financial abuse is domestic abuse because abuse is is about
• 21:40
  power and control. It's not about hitting, It's
• 21:43
  about power and control. I would say they, they often
• 21:47
  view themselves as like, I've got to be the only one in my
• 21:50
  town or in my church that's going through this.
• 21:52
  And the people that are, you know, those abuse situations are
• 21:55
  the battered woman. Those are, those are different
• 21:57
  people. Those are, those are not, those
• 21:59
  are not my people. And they don't view themselves
• 22:01
  as being in an abusive relationship.
• 22:03
  In that context, like you said, as Christian women, they don't
• 22:07
  feel like they're being abused, but now all of a sudden they're
• 22:10
  listening to you. Two things.
• 22:12
  One, you've explained the characteristics that, you know,
• 22:17
  controlling, manipulative, you know, financial, all the ways
• 22:21
  that can be used in an abusive way in a marriage.
• 22:24
  But now they're realizing this listening to you speak that, oh,
• 22:28
  wait, I am in an abusive situation.
• 22:30
  What types of resources and support would you want them to
• 22:34
  know about? Well, first of all, there's a
• 22:36
  national hotline they can call that can help them direct to, to
• 22:39
  resources. They can do a Google search, an
• 22:41
  organization in their area. Oftentimes the, the local
• 22:45
  domestic violence organizations will offer safe housing, free
• 22:48
  counseling, maybe even legal advocacy.
• 22:50
  I would say reach out to the local domestic violence
• 22:52
  organization in your area because they'll have a, you
• 22:56
  know, a ton of resources. One of the other resources I
• 22:59
  would say is reaching out to a therapist that is specializing
• 23:03
  in this. So, and again, maybe your local
• 23:05
  domestic violence organization organization has a list of
• 23:08
  therapists. There is a nationwide group
• 23:10
  called domesticshelters.org. They're, you know, they are
• 23:14
  great, they're great resource as as well.
• 23:17
  And there's a number of books, Leslie Vernick has a great book
• 23:20
  called The Emotionally destructive Marriage or
• 23:23
  Emotionally Destructive Relationship.
• 23:24
  It really helps people recognize what they're in and so that they
• 23:28
  can make those steps to to do what they have to do.
• 23:31
  What would you want them to know from a spiritual about God in
• 23:34
  the middle of all of this? Well, I will say that God is for
• 23:37
  you. God is for his daughters and he
• 23:40
  loves his daughters and he wants his daughters to have this
• 23:43
  amazing, abundant, beautiful, fulfilling life because he's an
• 23:47
  amazing God, right? We, we don't serve a mediocre
• 23:50
  average God. He's an amazing God.
• 23:52
  And so he wants us to have these amazing lives as well.
• 23:56
  I would say trust that trust. Trust what we read in the Bible
• 23:59
  of what he wants for us. Trust known resources who get
• 24:03
  domestic abuse. There's, there's some places
• 24:06
  that don't and there's some places that do.
• 24:08
  The ones that they get it will be uplifting and supportive of
• 24:12
  your safety. And the same with safe people.
• 24:15
  Like if you want to know who to trust, you dip a big toe in the
• 24:18
  water and see how they react. Not everybody gets to hear your
• 24:21
  story because they haven't earned the privilege of hearing
• 24:23
  your story. So if you if they are not a safe
• 24:26
  person, they don't get to hear your story.
• 24:28
  But the people that are safe people will support you and, and
• 24:32
  believe you and want to be there for you.
• 24:34
  So those are the people that you want to keep close to you.
• 24:37
  Not everybody's going to be like that.
• 24:38
  Not everybody in the church is going to be like that.
• 24:40
  You will have to, as it says in in Proverbs, guard your heart
• 24:44
  and be discerning. I think that's the one reason
• 24:47
  that women get into these abusive relationships in the 1st
• 24:50
  place. Overall, the women that I have
• 24:52
  come in contact with are just these wonderful, lovely,
• 24:55
  beautiful women who have these huge hearts and will do anything
• 24:59
  for you. They're what the ones you would
• 25:01
  call it 3 in the morning if you needed someone to take you to
• 25:03
  the emergency room. They're just wonderful people.
• 25:05
  But one of the things they do, and I would put myself in that
• 25:07
  same situation, is lacking discernment.
• 25:10
  We need to understand who is good and who's following after
• 25:15
  God and running after Him and who's a pretender who, who was
• 25:18
  really on God's side and who is on the enemy side.
• 25:22
  So discernment is something that everyone is going to need to get
• 25:26
  to be able to get out of an abusive relationship and get
• 25:29
  into that abundant life. Because she's trusted someone
• 25:33
  who was untrustworthy, right? She chose someone who was
• 25:37
  untrustworthy. He was not on God's team and
• 25:39
  somehow she chose him. So we need to look at ourselves
• 25:42
  and say what is? What do I like in discernment so
• 25:45
  that I can surround myself with people who are on?
• 25:49
  You just touched on that's a universal problem.
• 25:51
  A lot of times when we encounter situations where we've been
• 25:56
  hurt, not only do we not trust the people that hurt us, but
• 25:59
  sometimes we don't trust ourselves anymore.
• 26:01
  We don't trust, we don't trust ourselves to make wise
• 26:05
  decisions. And so when we're in those
• 26:07
  situations, I know I went through a season in my own life
• 26:10
  where I went through a lot of struggles and I literally
• 26:13
  brought my husband along with me because I wasn't seeing things
• 26:17
  through the right lens. I was seeing everything through
• 26:20
  the lens of my heart and my pain.
• 26:22
  So I didn't trust myself not to respond or react.
• 26:25
  And so having my husband in that situation, am I seeing this
• 26:30
  incorrectly from my own point of hurt, from my own point of not
• 26:34
  being able to trust? And yeah, that's that's a
• 26:38
  universal issue, no matter whether you're coming from a
• 26:41
  domestic abuse situation or just life in general.
• 26:44
  Yeah, 100%. Most times women will say I
• 26:48
  don't trust myself anymore because look at look at who I
• 26:51
  chose, my goodness. And they might have chosen an
• 26:54
  unhealthy person not once, but twice or more.
• 26:57
  So we really have to recognize that we need to use our
• 27:01
  discernment muscle. And how do you do that?
• 27:03
  You know, you do it by working at it, by putting yourself in
• 27:07
  situations and doing what you did.
• 27:08
  The people that you trust help them make decisions next time
• 27:12
  around. And I tell my, my, you know, the
• 27:14
  women who come to my support group, you know, at some point
• 27:17
  they may want to start dating and maybe have a good partner in
• 27:21
  their life. And I said, well, OK, we need to
• 27:23
  up our standards, ladies. All right, don't just take, take
• 27:25
  someone because that's all you can find.
• 27:27
  We need to find us a man who is running after God, not just that
• 27:31
  calls himself a Christian. I mean, look at what does a
• 27:34
  healthy person look like and what do his friends look like?
• 27:37
  What do they leave in the wake of their life?
• 27:39
  Because you can look back at a person's life and see the trail
• 27:42
  that they've left. Is it a trail of broken
• 27:45
  relationships, of divorces and kids that are messed up and they
• 27:49
  can't keep a job because they're so toxic at work?
• 27:52
  Or is it a trail of blessings to people that have been in their
• 27:56
  lives? So we need to look at not only
• 27:59
  who their friends are and what they say, but what they do.
• 28:02
  People will say all sorts of things, but actions speak much
• 28:04
  louder than words. And use the friends who you
• 28:07
  know, have godly wisdom to help you see things that you don't
• 28:11
  see. I, I got remarried after after
• 28:14
  this and I was very much not willing to trust my own
• 28:20
  instincts. Then, you know, I said, you
• 28:22
  know, I want someone who is so much like Jesus.
• 28:25
  I want to see the fruit of the spirit.
• 28:26
  I want to see, you know, what the description of love is in
• 28:29
  first Corinthians 13. I want to see all of these
• 28:32
  things and humility, but I still wasn't sure about myself.
• 28:36
  So I had him meet all of my friends that basically the poor
• 28:38
  guy got vetted like he was going to work in the Pentagon.
• 28:41
  My goodness, I had 50 friends. That's like, OK, like you have
• 28:45
  to meet these friends and you have to meet these friends.
• 28:47
  And these guys don't have known me since college.
• 28:49
  He really went through the wringer, but he knew and and he
• 28:52
  appreciated the fact that here's people who wanted me to be safe
• 28:56
  and they were vetting him. So good people won't mind being
• 28:59
  vet. Yeah, Well, that that's, that's
• 29:00
  important because I love that you brought your friends along
• 29:03
  because that's what I was going to say.
• 29:04
  I think that's very critical because you know, when you're in
• 29:06
  that new relationship, you have those doe eyes you're not always
• 29:10
  seeing clearly because you could be love bombed or you know, like
• 29:14
  they could be just showering you with all of this affection and
• 29:18
  maybe you haven't had that for a while.
• 29:19
  So that's so important and such a great advice is to bring a
• 29:23
  group of friends because they maybe have their own lens that
• 29:26
  they're looking through, but a group that I love that you did
• 29:29
  that. That's a great Charlene.
• 29:31
  Thank you so much for sharing your story in your and for your
• 29:34
  work that you continue to do. You've mentioned your book
• 29:37
  numerous times, but I don't think you've actually said the
• 29:39
  title. What is the title of your book?
• 29:41
  So the big book that came out a few years ago is called
• 29:45
  Overcoming the Narcissist, Sociopath, Psychopath and Other
• 29:49
  Domestic Abusers. The comprehensive Handbook to
• 29:52
  Recognize, Remove and Recover From Abuse.
• 29:55
  And then the workbook, which is for Bible studies and support
• 29:58
  groups or even individual study, is the same name.
• 30:01
  It's just under a workbook. You did something unique with
• 30:04
  your book that I love. Would you like to share that?
• 30:06
  If you're in an abusive relationship and you bring a
• 30:09
  book home that says overcoming the narcissist, sociopath and
• 30:13
  psychopath, it's not going to be safe for you.
• 30:15
  So what I did with the jacket cover on the on the big book is
• 30:19
  on the flip side of the jacket, there's a decoy cover.
• 30:22
  It's pink and it's cute and it just says inspiration for women
• 30:26
  and Psalms and proverbs that that's a decoy.
• 30:28
  So on the outside it, it's, it's kind of the benign cover and I
• 30:33
  did the same thing on the workbook.
• 30:34
  So you can just flip it over so that that's the cover that's
• 30:37
  showing as opposed to the front cover and.
• 30:39
  That is so great. That is, that was such wisdom.
• 30:42
  Did God give you that idea? How?
• 30:43
  Do you know it was the Holy Spirit?
• 30:45
  Oh yes, girl, I do think how do you bring this book home, right?
• 30:48
  It's, it's, it's a, it can be used as a doorstop.
• 30:51
  And then I thought, wow, you know that, that we need some
• 30:54
  safety measures here. So the Holy Spirit's well, just
• 30:57
  get a flip side. And it's funny because when I
• 31:00
  went to the the printer to pick up the books, they said we've
• 31:02
  never seen a flip side on a jacket before.
• 31:06
  And then they read the cover and they said, now we know because I
• 31:09
  really have never seen a book with a decoy jacket cover.
• 31:13
  So yeah, that's the Holy Spirit. I love, I love how God does
• 31:16
  those little things like that just to protect us and he, he
• 31:20
  takes care of all the little. Details.
• 31:23
  Yep. He he Really.
• 31:25
  And it's in the details is how we can see his love for us.
• 31:28
  And I think that's so sweet and so special.
• 31:30
  So thank you so much much for sharing your story and for the
• 31:33
  work that you're doing. I truly appreciate you joining
• 31:36
  me today to Share your story, but also to share all the
• 31:41
  resources that are available. If you would like to learn more
• 31:45
  about Charlene and about her work, the link to purchase her
• 31:49
  books in the workbook as well as the resources that she mentioned
• 31:52
  will be in the show notes below. So just go down there and click
• 31:55
  those. Thank you for joining us on
• 31:57
  Witness the Wonder today. It's my pleasure, thank you and
• 32:01
  blessings to your the ladies who are listening and thank you for
• 32:04
  your ministry here. If someone wants to e-mail me or
• 32:06
  get a hold of me any other way other than through the book,
• 32:09
  they can go to the website of Abuse Care dot.
• 32:13
  Perfect. Thank you so much, Charlene.
• 32:15
  Thank you all for joining us today here on Witness the
• 32:17
  Wonder. To learn more about today's
• 32:19
  guest or explore the resources mentioned, visit
• 32:22
  christinasmithofficial.com. And if you're enjoying Witness
• 32:25
  the Wonder, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss
• 32:29
  future episodes, leaving a review or sharing the show with
• 32:32
  someone you know. Really, it does help these
• 32:35
  stories reach more people. And remember, God is always at
• 32:38
  work in your story.