Latest / Find Your Edge: Training, Nutrition + Longevity for Endurance Athletes / Protecting Yourself On and Off the Bike: Insurance Essentials for Cyclists [REPLAY] Ep 101

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Protecting Yourself On and Off the Bike: Insurance Essentials for Cyclists [REPLAY] Ep 101 · Find Your Edge: Training, Nutrition + Longevity for Endurance Athletes

• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Find your Edge podcast.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: I'm your host, chris Newport, founder head coach, sports nutritionist and exercise physiologist at the Endurance Edge.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Our mission is to empower people to reach and sustain peak performance and health, so get ready to dive into all things training, nutrition, recovery and more.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: We hope to give you detailed information and inspiring stories to help you be your best.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Let's do it.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: And inspiring stories to help you be your best.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Let's do it.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: All right, welcome back to the Find your Edge podcast.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I am excited to have our guest, thomas Henson, on the show today to talk all about cycling, safety, insurance and other considerations for cycling, in particular, on the road.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: But welcome to the show, thomas, thanks.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: It's good to be here.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: So let's jump right in, ted.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Give us a little bit of your background, your company and your history as a cyclist too.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: So I come at some of these issues from a lot of different angles.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: So first of all I'm an attorney.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: Our firm, broadly speaking, does personal injury, car crashes, workers' comps, social security, disability, things like that.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: My focus is more what we refer to as catastrophic injuries spinal cord injury, brain injury, trailer crashes, a lot of cycling injuries.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of my niche as far as the firm goes.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: But I'm also I've been a cyclist, recreational cyclist, for literally decades, do a lot of.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I've done a lot of charity rides over the years, do a lot of mountain biking and road riding.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: So I've kind of got that angle.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: And then I'm also very involved in the brain injury community.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I'm on the board of directors for the Brain Injury Association of North Carolina as well as the Governor's Council, the Brain Injury Advisory Council for the governor and the legislature, and our job and our role is to advise governmental agencies on all things TBI related a lot of veterans issues, but also just acquired traumatic brain injury in general.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: Now cycling and legal issues and insurance issues kind of come together as a way to hopefully be as protected as possible when we're all out on the road.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: We all know that we're vulnerable out there.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: We don't like to think about it, but just like being in a car, you know, things can happen.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: So I think it's important for people to understand how these things come together.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Awesome, Very cool.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you've been very generous with supporting a lot of the local cycling clubs and rides and so, in fact, a recent triathlon, we got a nice little towel with y'all's logo on it, so we certainly appreciate that.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: But let's talk about because I know this is really your big platform.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about insurance, first and foremost, because this was something when you spoke to our cycling club a long time ago and then just recently also.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: This is really kind of your passion, and tell us about that and how it's unique, not only just in general, but also in North Carolina.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it is.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: It is kind of a kind of a passion, in the sense that it's an issue that not many people know about.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: Um, sorry about that Um, and it's.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: It's one that, especially as cyclists, but even outside the cycling context, it makes sense to kind of know about these things.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: So, generally speaking, everybody has auto insurance, or at least they're supposed to.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: So if you're just out in your car driving around, at least theoretically everybody out there who's driving around is supposed to have insurance on their vehicle, such that if they run a stop sign and hit you and break your leg, for instance, their insurance is supposed to come into play to cover your kind of broadly speaking medical expenses, loss wages, and then the squishy topic of pain and suffering.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: So, but the issue comes into play when what if there's not enough insurance to cover the injuries that you or someone sustains?
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: So the minimum required amount of insurance in North Carolina is only $30,000.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Of insurance in North Carolina is only $30,000.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: So you can imagine, I mean, if you've got anybody who's had cervical spine surgery or broken leg surgery, generally any kind of surgery, your medical expenses, with hospitalizations and physical therapy and all the follow-up, I mean it could easily exceed $30,000 just right off the bat.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: So the general assumption, I think, of people kind of out in the world is that well, I'll be fine because the other person has insurance.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: But again the crossroads comes when the other person doesn't have enough insurance to cover what your damages are.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: And that can be a problem again, with not necessarily a catastrophic injury.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: It could be just, you know, again, a fractured femur or any kind of spinal surgery.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: You know those medical expenses build up.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: And then we haven't even talked about what if you miss time from work and have lost wages, and then again kind of on top of that is the pain and suffering component.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: So the way around that, or the way to better protect yourself, is to purchase something from your own insurance agent called uninsured slash, underinsured motorist coverage.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: So the uninsured part comes into play because even though theoretically by law everybody is supposed to have at least $30,000 worth of insurance, not everybody does.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: So there are some vehicles out there that have no insurance.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: So if you get hit by somebody that has no insurance then you have to pop back to your own insurance coverage to try and cover some of those damages.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: So that is so we can kind of take a break there in terms of trying to think about this.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: So the uninsured, underinsured motorist coverage is an extra coverage that you purchase that comes into play if the other person doesn't have enough insurance to cover your injuries.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: So I've got a graph, or if you've got that diagram that we had talked about, if you want to pull it up.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: For anybody who's watching this, you'll be able to see this, so I'll share a screen here.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Watching this you'll be able to see this, but so I'll share a screen here.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: But if you're just listening via the podcast, you'll see the UMUIM, which is what you're referring to, right?
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: So scroll down just a tad and so you see down at the bottom.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: I've kind of got two charts here, one of which represents medical bills and kind of injury severity and you can see that I mean, obviously, injuries can be minor or they can be very severe.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: So if you've, you know, you get hit and you kind of have a sprained neck or whatever and then you have some physical therapy, your medical bills may only be a few thousand dollars Once you start getting into various forms of surgery few thousand dollars.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Once you start getting into various forms of surgery, those medical expenses can top 30,000 and start creeping up towards 100,000.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: If somebody is catastrophically injured and meaning some kind of horrible brain injury or paralysis or all those horrible things we don't want to think about then all of a sudden those types of medical expenses can literally get up into the $500,000 or more range.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: You know, I think we've all heard of various tragedies, specifically in the cycling community, but it certainly applies to car wrecks in general, where somebody's on their bike and they get hit and they have some sort of really debilitating brain injury or spinal cord injury where they literally have to go into like a skilled nursing facility or something like that, those types of scenarios.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: If you're looking at a lifetime of expenses, we can all imagine what those start to add up to.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: So for purposes of this graph, I've just kind of graphically depicted on the left kind of the various levels of medical expenses to think about.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: And again, that doesn't include lost wages or the proverbial pain and suffering.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: So if you look to the right, I've just kind of visually depicted here if you've got a defendant with only $30,000 worth of coverage on their vehicle, then as your expenses or as the injured person's expenses start to go up, that leaves the underinsured aspect.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: So if you on the column all the way to the right, the green is what I've kind of visually depicted as if you have underinsured motorist coverage, then that kicks in on top of whatever the defendant has.
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: So maybe scroll back up to the very top and then you can just see the label up here UM, which is uninsured, and UIM, which is underinsured motorist coverage.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: So, chris, maybe scroll down a little bit and go to the actual deck pages.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I have shared with you guys my, my.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Now this is a couple of years old, but I've still got the same same limits.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Um, this is from 2017, but this is my own personal insurance policy policy and you can see the coverage.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: A is bodily injury coverage, which is that's the amount of insurance I have if I do something negligent and I run a stop sign and I hurt somebody badly.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: So if I do that, then the other person would file a claim against my insurance company for whatever their damages are, up to a million dollars.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: So that's my own personal coverage if I hit or hurt somebody else.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: But the area I've highlighted is and it's harder to see because the highlight kind of covers it up but that is a combined uninsured, underinsured motorist coverage of a million dollars.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: So that corresponds to the green block on the diagram we just saw, such that if I get hit either in my car or on my bike or wherever um or wherever um and the other person has minimum limits or or even $50,000 in coverage Um, my UIM coverage comes in and covers my expenses and losses up to a million dollars.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: So scroll down a little bit more, or to the next page.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: And does this.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: So let's say you're running and you're in the crosswalk or something and somebody hits you.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: I'm assuming that this also I know we're focusing more on.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: So literally I have, under my example, I have a million dollars of underinsured coverage that just follows me around.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: So anything dealing with a vehicle, whether I'm running, walking, walking with my son and his stroller, you know, cycling in my car If I'm in your car, my underinsured motorist coverage follows me.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: So it applies in every single scenario.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: But that also becomes important for your spouse.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: You know, if your spouse is, you know, traveling in Idaho and is in somebody else's car in Idaho and gets in a bad wreck, that underinsured motorist follows your spouse.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Same with your children if they're on a school bus or on some kind of school trip, the underinsured and uninsured motorist follows the family members.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: Anybody who's living in the household follows them around.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: So, yes, it is very broadly applied, which is why it's so beneficial.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: So even if perhaps you may not cycle or run or anything like that, if a family member does, it sounds like this is important.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: It is, and even to your point, even if we're talking to somebody not in the endurance community, I mean, if you're just if you're just a person who doesn't cycle or run or anything you know, I have cases, sadly, come to my office all the time where somebody's quote unquote just in a car crash and they have, you know, really bad injuries from a car crash and they have, you know, really bad injuries from a car crash, and the same theories obviously apply.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: So, but yeah, for the purposes of our conversation, it applies no matter what you're doing.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: I mean not swimming, because you theoretically wouldn't be hit by a car when you're in the lake, but it would apply if you're riding your bike to the lake to go swimming and somebody hits you on your bike.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: So you know, yeah, it's very important for that reason as well.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, great.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: So what did you want to?
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: So scroll down one more page.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to see, wanted you to see.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: So on my umbrella policy I actually have uninsured underinsured coverage up to $10 million.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: Now that sounds like a ton of money and that's probably a little overly paranoid Because even I mean the most catastrophic case you can imagine $10 million is probably enough to cover those expenses.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm at a point now where my son's getting ready to graduate from high school.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: I don't have, you know, my dependents aren't depending on me as much.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: I'm probably actually going to reduce that down maybe to seven and a half million or maybe five million or so million worth of underinsured coverage and more if you can afford it.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: It's not an expensive coverage.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: You see the premium there is $2,400, but that's not for the underinsured portion.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: This falls under my umbrella coverage.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: That applies in a liability context.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Again, if I do something or somebody falls off my deck or whatever happens, that's what an umbrella coverage is for.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: So this UIM portion kind of attaches on to that.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: But the cost just for the UIM portion on the first page we looked at, that's a couple of hundred dollars a year probably for a million dollars worth of coverage.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: So something that's generally pretty affordable in the grand scheme of things hey, I was messing around on my, so I have usaa.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: I was messing around on an app before we got on this call just to see, like, can I?
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: So first of all, I could do this myself, so I imagine other people can probably like.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: In other words, I can change my coverage literally, like by the push of a button, and a million dollars of coverage for us is like $20 a month.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's really like.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: I feel like that's such a small amount compared to the potential, and I'm sure you can speak to that as to the potential catastrophes.
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, you know it's um, I mean the weird thing about it.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: So there's, there's two aspects of that.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Number one for whatever reason, insurance agents don't seem to talk a lot with their clients about the availability of underinsured coverage, and I'm not sure why that is.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: It's certainly not intentional.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I just I'm not sure most agents really see this through the lens that I do, which makes sense, but I have.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: It's amazing how many people come through our office and they either have no underinsured coverage or sometimes they may have like 50,000 of UIM or 100,000 of UIM, which helps, but in a catastrophic scenario it doesn't help as much as it could.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: If you had, you know, $250,000 worth of UIM or a million dollars worth of UIM and, like you say, for 20 bucks a month, you know that's probably the cheapest insurance you could buy, kind of in any scenario.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: So I think that's a really important point to either go on the website yourself and try to figure out how to do it.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: The other thing I've done before, and the reason I share my own insurance policy, is feel free to print this out and take it to your insurance agent and say you know, look, I want what this guy has.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: So you know that's an option.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I've also had a couple of scenarios where I actually got on the phone with somebody, with their insurance agent, to make sure nothing got lost in the translation, and said, look, this is what they want.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: You know, y'all can work out the cost, but I can kind of help bridge that communication gap if you need to.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: So not a big deal, I mean, like you say.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I mean most people are smart enough to to be able to kind of have that conversation themselves, but it's certainly an option if anybody needs it.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's super helpful.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: All right, so we've, we've gotten the, the insurance part.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Now, when let's go to, like, if we're out on the road and something does happen and one of the things that you had shared with us let's see um, which would you like us to share?
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Um, probably like the, what, the, um, what happens?
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you can see my screen or not.
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, that that's the one right there.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: So this is actually a mock-up.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: It's like it's kind of a proof of a little card that I provide for various charity rides I sponsor, or or triathlons or whatever, and it actually can fit in the in your uh bike saddle.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: So, um, if you scroll down, it's got a little list of helpful things.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: Um so, basically, what we're looking at is, if you are hit while riding your bike, what are the steps to take, and we'll have this posted on our website too.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: So, uh yeah, thomas, walk us through us for this.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: So the first thing is obviously seek medical help.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: That's kind of a given.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I will tell you, not only is it important to seek medical help immediately, but it's also important to get in to see a doctor even after kind of the acute incident has happened.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Cyclists are renowned because we're athletes, right, and especially the endurance athletes who are doing triathlons and stuff like that.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: You're used to, you've trained yourself to deal with pain and get through pain and kind of do your own self-recovery.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: That can create a problem in the legal side, though, because if you have somebody who is in a crash and they don't go to a doctor for a month and then go to a doctor, I'm going to get the argument from the insurance company well, they must not have been hurt that bad because they didn't go see a doctor.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: So you know, I never tell people to go to a doctor just for purposes of the lawsuit, because that's not reasonable either, and you shouldn't go to a doctor unless you need to.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: But I always stress to especially endurance athletes look, go get yourself checked out.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: First of all, because, legal issues aside, it's just a smart thing to do and you need somebody who really understands the human body and all that kind of stuff.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's why we have doctors, Right, so we need to take advantage of that knowledge and make sure that we can get on the recovery track as fast as possible.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Secondarily, kind of as a byproduct benefit, is, if it turns into a legal issue, then I as the lawyer have your injuries documented in a way that make it persuasive to the insurance companies I'm dealing with trying to get kind of fair and reasonable compensation for what the injuries are.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: So kind of a twofold thing there, number two interesting, interesting perspective of um, both the legal side, and also encouraging, because, like you said, we athletes are I'm good, I'm fine, and adrenaline is an amazing thing.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: It will make things not hurt and then the next day you're going man, especially and talk to like any head injuries Cause, especially in your position working with um, some of the brain injury boards and that kind of thing, like I feel like so many people are like oh, I mean I bumped my head and my helmet's cracked, but it's fine.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that that is a huge issue.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, that is a brain injury.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: It's not a severe brain injury in the sense that you have a bleed on the brain, although sometimes people think they just have a concussion and there actually is some bleeding going on.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: So there's all kinds of reasons to get checked out.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: But even assuming it's just a just a concussion quote unquote that can be a serious thing that needs monitoring and there are specific strategies that concussion specialists implement to make sure you recover as quickly as possible.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I would also.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: So if you have a concussion or if somebody in your group has a concussion, you know we all, we all like, like Chris said, we all know the type I'm fine, I'm just, I'll be fine but strongly encourage them to go get checked out in the scenario of a concussion.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: I also urge people to seek out a concussion specialist because sadly, even though we've learned a lot about concussion over the last 20 years and certainly with veterans and NFL and all those kinds of things, I think people in the medical community are more in tune with it now than they've ever been.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: But I still see clients who come to visit or come to see me and they say well, I went to see my primary care doctor and he or she said ah, it's just a bump on the head, you'll be fine in a few weeks.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: That's not the appropriate strategy.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: So there are plenty of sports concussion clinics out there.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't say plenty, there are a few.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: A lot of the orthopedic clinics have specialized concussion clinics, so make sure you're seeing somebody with that background to make sure they give you the specific strategies you need to recover as quickly as you can.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, great, so we've sought medical attention.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: And then what's the next step?
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, next step is call 911.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: A lot of times people are hesitant to call the police and you know I get that, I mean everything, you know I mean everything is situation specific, right, but if somebody has either crashed into you or maybe intentionally caused you to crash or you know came, you know ridden close by you or buzzed by you or whatever, it's important to call the police.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: But again, on the legal side, it helps me when that's documented.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: If the police aren't called, then it's really this big he said, she said kind of thing which is very difficult to prove.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: When you do, when the police do show up, it's obviously fine and you want to talk to them and tell them what happened.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: But generally speaking, it's best not to make a bunch of statements to either the other driver or anybody standing around about what happened, because you never Again that.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: That feeds this.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: He said, she said thing.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Even though you've told the police one thing, the other driver might say well, you know yeah she told that to the police.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: But she told me the entire you know exactly the opposite before the police got there.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: So I generally advise people don't really make any statements to anybody until the police get there.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: If there's witnesses around, you know I tend to when I ride I tend to make sure I'm in a group.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I try not to ride by myself.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: I know that a lot of especially Ironman kind of athletes, because of the amount of training you do, you have to be by yourself.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: But if you're in a group that's good because it gives you witnesses.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: If there's other drivers who are witnesses that happen to stop or whatever, make sure you get their contact information so that we can contact them later if there's any follow up that needs to be done.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Pictures are always critical of the vehicle, of the crash.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: I put you up on the stand to testify what a horrible gas you had on your arm.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: It's a whole lot more persuasive if we have a picture than you just describing it.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: So pictures are our key.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: And then there's a couple of other things.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: On the right hand side of this little handout that talks about getting driver's license and insurance.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: But if the, if the police is called, then that's part of what they do as well.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's see.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: We got witnesses, we got medical attention, Call 911.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: Being brief in our statements, right and try not to discuss.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: And then when do people you know whether you've been arrested for murder?
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: whether you're closing on your house, whether you are filing bankruptcy, whether you know just any reason you're calling a lawyer, it's always best to call the lawyer sooner rather than later.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: That's not just in the personal injury context, but it certainly applies in the personal injury context.
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: So when you call me or you know any other lawyer for that matter, it helps because witnesses disappear, their memories fade, the ability to take pictures disappears.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: The insurance company for the other driver, you can bet, is jumping into action on day one.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: The insurance company for the other driver, you can bet, is jumping into action on day one, and you know.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: So if I get somebody who calls me, you know, two months after it happens, then I'm kind of behind the eight ball and playing catch up in terms of again doing my investigation, doing my due diligence to make sure witnesses kind of memories are preserved, getting pictures.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: You know, sometimes I have to pardon me sometimes I have to hire experts to maybe go out into the scene.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: I've had cycling cases in the past where, for whatever reason, there may be issues as to where the bike and the vehicle were located.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: So I need to hire an accident reconstruction engineer to go out to the scene and try and recreate all that Again, to kind of fight this.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: He said, she said thing.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: So if I'm hiring an engineer to go out there, it's a lot better if he or she goes out there the day after the crash rather than six months later again when skid marks have been washed away by the rain or gouge marks on the pavement have been paved over.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: You know those kinds of things.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: So again, the general advice is if you need a lawyer for anything, call them as soon as possible, and that definitely applies in the personal injury context as well.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Okay, great, great advice there.
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: So we've talked a little bit about like bodily injury and that kind of thing.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: Cyclists generally spend a pretty good investment on their equipment, so what are some of your?
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Are there any things to do, like should we take pictures of our equipment on I don't know, on a yearly basis or something?
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: That way we have it have something to compare to when it's broken?
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Or what would be some of your advice there?
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: So a couple of things.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: So property, that falls under the area of property damage.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: So, just like, if you're in your car and somebody hits your car, then the other carrier has to either fix your car or pay you the value of the vehicle if it's quote unquote, totaled.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: So the same theory applies on a bike.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: So, but the burden falls on you and us to prove what either what the bike was worth if it's completely ruined or how much it's going to cost to get it fixed.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Realizing to Chris's point, we're not dealing with a huffy from Sears, you know.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: We're dealing with a, you know, a bike worth several thousand dollars, if not more.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: And insurance most insurance adjusters don't live in that world.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: They don't understand the technical aspects of cycling and why a particular brake system or a particular wheel might, why does that cost eight hundred dollars?
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: So there's a couple of different things that I propose to try and protect yourself there.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: One is keep every single invoice, document, bill, anything you've gotten from your bike shop, starting with the cost of your bike.
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: Just open up a file, whether it's digital or a real file, and put the sales invoice from purchasing your bike there, Anytime you make any upgrades, anytime you get it repaired.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Anytime you add a bike, computer or anything like that, put those same invoices in that folder, Because if you're in a position where you're calling me, or even if you're just handling something on your own, you want to provide as much documentation to the insurance company as possible, because they're not just going to take your word for it.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: I've had scenarios where not only do I have my client provide whatever documentation there is, but I've actually gotten affidavits from the bike shop mechanic or the bike shop owner that says, yes, Chris Newport bought her bike from me.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Here's the work that I've done on it.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Here's the cost.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: Here's what it would cost to replace these items.
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: Assuming we can fix the bike would cost to replace these items, assuming we can fix the bike.
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: So you know, on first glance it seems easy.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: You just tell the insurance company, hey, my bike was worth X.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: But if you really want to get full dollar for what the bike was worth and same thing applies to helmet or gloves or your jersey all of that falls under the category of property damage.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: So you know, you may or may not want to keep every invoice for every cycling jersey you've ever bought, and those are a little easier to document than you know, a specialized tri-bike, for instance.
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: But you know, if you're anal, retentive and want to keep all that stuff literally for every helmet or every cycling shoes or anything you've ever bought, if you put it in that same file, you know you got it if you need it.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: So that's how the property damage aspect works.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, great, so you had mentioned, you know, keeping receipts and that kind of thing, and it kind of made me think of and you mentioned bike computer and when you spoke to our group recently, gopro came up and how video footage benefits you in your particular case.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: So talk to me a little bit about safety and maybe any steps that are ideal for cyclists to take, or gear or anything like that that's going to benefit us as cyclists.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so from a safety aspect, you know the first thing that's always on the list and you almost hesitate to say it because it's so obvious.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: But the first thing is wear your helmet.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: You don't see many people ride without helmets anymore, thankfully.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Occasionally you'll see without helmets anymore, thankfully.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Occasionally you'll see somebody generally it's a guy you know, who maybe thinks he's from Sweden or whatever or he's going to compete in the Tour de Cure back in the 80s and they're riding without a helmet.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: You know, I get it, I understand kind of like riding a motorcycle without a helmet.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it feels better, but it is not a smart thing to do From a safety standpoint.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: And we could have a whole different conversation about some of the laws in North Carolina.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: But briefly, kind of describing, north Carolina has what's called the law of contributory negligence, which means if a jury finds or an insurance company can argue that somehow you as the cyclist contributed to the crash by your own conduct, then they can deny your claim and not pay you anything.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: And lawyers like me have been trying for years and are still trying to get that overturned or changed at the legislature to something called comparative negligence.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: And again, this is kind of a whole separate discussion to get into the nuances of all this anything that is going to lend support to an insurance company's or, if you end up in trial, a defense lawyer's claim that you somehow contributed to the crash.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: So what you have to do is everything reasonable to protect yourself and ride your bike safely, which includes, again, most of this is obvious, but it includes wearing reflective clothing, having your bike lit up like a Christmas tree with flashing lights and all kinds of stuff, bike radar, if you can afford it or want it.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: All of those types of technology are important.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: The GoPro is important because you know it'll prove what happened.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Because you know it'll prove what happened, and a lot of times it can not only prove that the person hit.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Uh, license plates, identify a vehicle, that it's a hit, that it's a hit and run, um, those kinds of things.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: So gopro, it's a little bit heavier to wear on the head.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: I understand that you can also mount it on the, on the handlebars, um, but if you're in a big group, chances.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people are riding with GoPros now, so that certainly helps.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: So the more GoPros we have, the better.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: So that's a good thing we now have.
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: There were some changes to the cycling laws and they fell under kind of the motor vehicle provisions.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: But basically, passing cars are required to give you, as a cyclist, four feet.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: It has also kind of codified, or the new law has codified, that the hand signals we all know, or should know, are legal, just like a turn signal on a car.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: Another vehicle is required by law to understand, respect and follow any hand signals that we give as cyclists.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: There's a couple of other.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: The one at the very bottom of what Chris is showing now is the new law requires a bike to have a red rear light or the operator to wear a reflective vest when the bike is operated at night.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Um, you know, I don't know that.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: The thing I always say is that just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Um, theoretically, cyclists have the right to be on the road just like cars.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Um, which means theoretically, I have the right to ride down Capitol Boulevard at 5 pm on a weekday.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: Am I going to do that?
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Good God, no, even though legally I'm allowed to.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: But again, just because we can do something doesn't mean we should.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: So riding at most do something doesn't mean we should so riding at most.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know the statistics on it, but a lot of cycling crashes happen at dawn and at dusk.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: So you know again, I know we all want to get out early in the morning and that kind of stuff, but anything you're doing that makes the driver makes it difficult to see you is going to, in my world, in addition to it just being unsafe and you don't want to be hurt, um, in my world that is going to lead, lead into an, into an argument that you, as the cyclist, were somehow contributory negligent by riding at dusk without lights.
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: Um, and frankly, that's going to be a good argument.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: So you know again, you want to be safe and really common sense is a large part of this.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Don't roll stop signs.
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: It's unsafe and it leads to an argument of contributory negligence.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: You know, don't weave back and forth on the road and you know, fool around on the bike.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Don't do crazy things in pace lines when a vehicle's coming up.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: You know, it's just literally a matter of riding smart and just being safe.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: And the good news is that if you do that, then that translates into the legal arena as a case that you stand on pretty firm ground with, because nobody can claim that you did anything wrong.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: So with this contributory negligence, I have seen quite a few cyclists who get a little, shall we say, mouthy with vehicles or drivers of vehicles, whether somebody passes them too close, and then they're throwing the middle finger or screaming and yelling, and then, next thing, you know, the car turns around and now we have some like does where, where are we at in that Does?
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Does that fall under that rule?
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: You know it can.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: It's hard to generalize.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, everything is so situation specific, right?
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: You know, if I've got my lawyer hat on and I'm advising people, the advice would be don't ever do that.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: As much as you know, if I've got my lawyer hat on and I'm advising people, the advice would be don't ever do that.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: As much as you know, there have been times when I've been on my bike and I've done stuff like that.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: So I realize that it's easy to say and harder to do, but you just don't want to do.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: I mean again, the his bass boat behind his car on the way out to Falls Lake.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: With all due respect to bass fishermen, you know, I mean not everybody's like that, but we know the stereotype, right?
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: You know somebody like that turns their truck around and all of a sudden they're, you know, got their concealed carry weapon underneath their dashboard.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, things get, especially in today's world, things get froggy really quickly, as we all know.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: So again, just put the legal stuff aside.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: Just from a safety standpoint, I think de-escalation is a really important concept.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: It's easier, you know, you can rest assured if you have a GoPro.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: You know you can rest assured if you have a gopro.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: That's a double-edged sword, right, because it's also going to capture what you do um or what we do um.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: So I think de-escalation is a very important philosophy to keep in mind to keep everybody safe, to avoid, you know, people coming back and and getting really road rage or all this crazy stuff.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: And then again, as a byproduct, in the legal arena, that helps the legal case if there is one, because it makes it a lot harder for me to do my job if I've got a client who was going after the other person just as hard as the other person was coming after after my client.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: So you know, again, it's kind of common sense, but if we can do our best to keep, that to a minimum or non-existent, I think we're all better off.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Awesome, great advice.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: All right, thomas.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: So if we, if you had two or three things to just put a bow on it, um, reminders for people, what would those be?
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: reminders for people.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: What would those be?
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: A always wear a helmet.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: B always get treatment for a concussion or a suspected concussion.
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: And C as soon as you stop watching this podcast, call your insurance agent and tell them you want as much underinsured motorist coverage as you can afford.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Great advice.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Love it.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Thomas.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: How can people get a hold of you?
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: Well, our website is HensonFirstcom.
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: I think it's all we changed recently.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: It used to be LawMedcom.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: I think that's still forwards over and that's what's on our promotional materials.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: Phone number is obviously there 1-800-396-3300.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: My email is always.
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: You can always call my email.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: I mean email me at thomashensonatlawmedcom.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: My cell number call my cell if you want me 919-819-7498.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: I'm always happy to talk to cyclists or runners, or anybody for that matter, if they've got an issue.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: So don't hesitate to reach out and I'd be happy to talk you through anything for sure.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: That was super generous, really fantastic information.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on the show and we appreciate it.
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Happy riding.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Thank you, chris, I appreciate it.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Y'all be safe.
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the find your edge podcast.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: And if you're interested in learning more about our endurance coaching, sports and wellness, nutrition, metabolic and sweat testing triathlon training team or our triathlon training library, be sure to check us out at the endurance edgecom.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: And don't forget to follow us on social media at the endurance edge.
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: Thanks again and we'll catch you next time.