Latest / One Voice Many Conversations / Crushing Strongholds #052 Special Guest Doreen Virtue-Why Should you Avoid New Age Religions

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Crushing Strongholds #052 Special Guest Doreen Virtue-Why Should you Avoid New Age Religions · One Voice Many Conversations

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, everyone.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another great episode of Crushing Strongholds.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is a podcast where we turn pain into power and trauma into triumph.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we do that?
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: We do that by exposing the lies of the enemy.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: We also do that through the faith of people's testimonies and how they have overcome strongholds in their lives.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: And today I have an amazing guest with me that I cannot wait to share with you guys.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so much to talk about today.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: But this might have to be like maybe even a two-part episode, I'm not sure.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: But my guest today is Doreen Virtue.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you probably may have heard of her or maybe even seen her.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: She holds a master's degree in biblical theology studies with the highest honors from the Western Seminar and a master's degree in counseling psychology from Chaplin University.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: She's the author of From Counterfeit to Christ: How to Avoid New Age and New Thought Deception, and Eve's Pagan Daughters.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's a wonderful topic, wonderful topic for a book.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Before she was saved, she uh was practicing New Age and actually was um on like Oprah, CNN, The View, Coast to Coast, um, a lot of liberal secular um media.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: But now, now that she's been saved, she's discipling women all over, and she's been um a volunteer in several conferences, um, such as um speaker at The Answer in Genesis of 2025, and women's conference at the women's conference at the ARC Encounter.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: She has been featured on American Gospel 3, American Gospel TV, WIRE, Moody Radio, Spillover Christianity Today, Cultish, and New York Magazine, and um other spiritual counterfeit projects, servants, she's a servant of grace, and other Christian media.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: That was a tongue twister there, sorry about all that.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I can't wait for uh Miss Doreen to come on and introduce herself and say hello to everyone that's listening in today.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, Doreen, welcome.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Mickey.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's a joy to be with you and everyone.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm I'm so excited.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um I know we were talking a little bit before we started recording.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm so curious about like you lived quite a few years in the new age, and you wrote many books.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you were you were in very big into the angelic world of things.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: One question that I I have for you is um I know you had like um even angelic cards and several books that you wrote.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know people are big on angelic numbers, like oh, 111, 222, 333.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do those correlate with each other?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know I have a I have a really big feeling that they do, but I wanted to hear from you because I know those didn't come from this from the scripture, they came from a person.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So do you can you explain some of that?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: I can, and that's a great question to lead with because uh, first of all, yes, I was in the new age.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I actually was born and raised in new thought, which is related.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I my mom was a Christian science practitioner.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: I was a fifth generation Christian scientist, and and then Segway, after I went to college um in Chapman University, I became a psychotherapist for women with addictions and trauma recovery.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I started writing books on that, and I got um kind of hired by this mind-body-spirit festival called Whole Life Expo that would tour North America.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And because we were traveling all the time together, um, and it was mostly new age teachers on that circuit.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: I started to I'm a consummate researcher.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now, of course, my whole focus is on the Bible.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but back then, anything that seemed kind of interesting, I would research.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I I started to learn about chakras, chakra clearing.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: I became a Reiki master, I was introduced to yoga and started to do that every day, and um just different energy healing modalities and psychic development classes.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got really into all that and um and new age meditations.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the days my kids were young at that time, and the only place I could get any kind of silence was to go into the bathroom.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I was in the bathroom meditating, the new age meditation, not biblical, and I just got this kind of download, um, which is a new age term for getting a channeled message from Satan or his demons, um, and it was this phrase angel numbers.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew enough about numerology, um, but I hadn't really studied it too much.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'd studied Pythagorean theorem and such.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and um, and so I just started to write it down and started to tell audiences about this when I would give workshops.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: And people seemed to really be interested in this, and and and I started to do more new age meditations, and it just started to write down the different variations on number patterns.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I wrote a book, um, this was in the 1990s, and I wrote a book in the early 2000s called Angel Numbers, and had uh my ex-my ex-publisher had an app out where you could type in the numbers you saw on uh license plates or phone numbers or receipts, and here's your meaning, like a fortune cookie.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I regret it now, I feel like Dr.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Frankenstein, because now celebrities are talking about angel numbers, and it's a phrase I got in my bathroom, you know, in the 90s.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it's crazy.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that first of all, I know the pushback I always get, so let me address that.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: People want to say, but there's repeating numbers in the Bible seven, twelve, forty.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, there is, but God never says that we use those numbers for a personal revelation for ourselves, which is what angel numbers is divination, which was what I was really big into.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I I was doing this and and I started, I just kept going.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: And at these new age festivals I was at, there was a lot of movie stars and rock stars and professional top models backstage with us, and I would give them psychic readings.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: So then I became a psychic reader to the stars, you know, and and I was all into this world that was very occultic.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: I got really drawn into goddess worship and such and uh Wicca.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I just want to say that during that time, uh I got saved at age 59.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm now 68.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, during that time I wrote a lot of the things that I was researching and practicing, which I believed in sincerely at the time.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was having real experiences, but they were really grounded in demonic deception, not um God or biblical truth.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so those old books were, they went through my ex-publisher at a new age publisher.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um when I became a Christian, they fired me, which is fine.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to be unequally yoked.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they they soon took my work out of print because I think it's because I was a liability to them all of a sudden, because I was talking against everything they were publishing, especially their witchcraft books and such.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and so they stopped publishing me, but there's old copies of my work out there.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: They have licensed my work to foreign publishers.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think some of them, I wrote to every one of them after I got saved, and I said, Stop, you know, I don't want this, and it's spiritually dangerous for you to publish and sell these works.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And and I was telling everybody who would listen, burn those old books.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: But people are selling the used copies, in some cases, exorbitant high fees because they're no longer printed.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um, then my ex-publisher contacted me a couple of years ago to let me know that there's bootleg printers illegally printing their catalog, including some of my old work and selling it on places like Timu and even on Amazon.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it's counterfeit, it's illegal, nobody's getting paid for it.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it and people are always calling me a uh fraud and a hypocrite because my old work's still out there.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I if if anyone knows how to get it off the shelf, I'm all ears, but how can you control someone selling you stuff?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, it's it's in the the best I can do is to warn people, and then you know, God can use everything for good, Romans 8 28.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was a speaker at the Arc Encounter Answers and Genesis Women's Conference last year, I met some women there who this is wild.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's all glory to God.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: They bought my old products, and they saw on the back of all my old products, even the bootleg ones, it's my website.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so they went to my website and saw that I am, of course, renouncing my old work.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pointing people to the gospel and to God's kingdom, and they said that God used that to convict them to not use these cards or be in the new age and led them to Christ.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: And here we were together at the Ark encounter as sisters in Christ, crying and hugging each other, and it's because God used my old work.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a it's kind of a um, you know, God's amazing that he could do that.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's remarkable.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't that remarkable?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: But I just want to say that because um I feel it's a burden for me that my old work is out there.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm forgiven, I know that it's all through Jesus' work, not mine.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: But there's consequences of past sins.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And this is one of mine.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I Mickey, I met this woman um who was an ex-porn star, and she she has fruit of a genuine conversion, only God knows.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I was on a podcast with her, and she had the same commiseration about her old um porn videos still being out there, and people saying, Yeah, sure you're a Christian.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And she said that her ex-publisher of her videos was really mean compared to mine, who at least took me out of print.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: Her ex-publisher repackages old porn videos with new titles and new names.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it looks like she's putting out new products.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's really hard when you come out of extreme darkness, like I did.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then you've got this old stuff out there.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, I hope people can see that I am sincerely telling people I'm sorry for that old work.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: I've repented to God, of course.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And as I said, I know I'm forgiven, Jesus' work is finished.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: But for those who were influenced by my old work, I feel so horrible.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: I really thought that was the truth at the time.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I I thought God liked what I was doing because people told me I was comforting them with my new age work because it was positive, right?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when I learned that it was the opposite, that I had sinned against our holy God and that um I was a despicable abomination to him for what I was doing, I believed it, but it was I was shocked.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly thought I was helping people and pleasing God with new age work.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of the false teachers out there that I've met, I they say the same thing.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: They think they're helping, and we have to pray for them.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I have a question for you.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um what or do you feel true freedom?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: True freedom, excuse me.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you feel true freedom now that you are a Christian um compared to when you were living in um, you know, in in the new age realm?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And because I've I hear like um um I I I I I hear you're like since you're so sincere because you're so sorry, you know, but and and then and and this is following you.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: So do you do you get any freedom now that you're saved, even though you have that still on the back burner?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Does it is that pressing you?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a it's a burden I take off daily, put at the foot of the cross.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's not my burden, it's God's, but daily I'm reminded that my old work is still out there.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: So it it what it is, it's it's not I'm not in bondage at all um because of it, but I'm fueled for sharing the gospel even more than I would be if it wasn't out there.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um good.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it few it fuels me.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm on since I got saved nine years ago as we're filming this, I've been on social media, I think every day, maybe I skipped a couple days, but pretty much every day I've been on social media warning about new age deception and pointing people to God's kingdom.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think um is the biggest lie New Age teaches that people don't even realize?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: That you can be your own God, that you can be your own creator.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And New Age believes that we, you know, there's people who come out of Protestantism and Roman Catholicism who kind of carry a lot of the biblical thought a little bit.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: They carry biblical language, and they say, Oh, I'm co-creating with God, you know, kind of sugarcoating that whole thing.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: But the New Age, um, I was published by Louise L.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hay.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you're familiar with her.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: She wrote You Can Heal Your Life.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was a New York Times bestseller, and she had a publishing house called Hay House, and uh, we toured together for decades, and her big mantra that she taught in all of her books and seminars was your thoughts create your reality.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what the new age believes.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so you know, I I was in this way before this so-called secret, that book, secret and the movie and the law of attraction.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Before that became popular, I was already in this.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that movement is has so many claws in society now and the world, and it teaches you that if you have a negative thought, you will attract a negative experience.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's mind control, Mickey.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you are strapped to the ground, not allowed in the new age to even express that you have a problem or a worry or that you're sick or injured or tired.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: You are not allowed to say that.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't even admit it to yourself because that's negative in air quotes, and you're going to attract something worse.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: In the new age, anything that happens to you that's bad, it's your fault.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: You manifested it.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: You you are the one who allowed something toxic to come in.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so the implications of that are horrible ramifications.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: First, your relationships are necessarily shallow, since you can't admit these problems.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're supposed to share our burdens with one another.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: You can't do that in the new age at all.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: You can't even share your burden with yourself, and you don't know who God is in the new age.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: You God is called the universe in the new age.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, creation creator confusion there.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: And Romans 1.25, they're serving the creation instead of the creator.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: But um, in the new age, you you can't um you you can't work on your problems, you ignore them.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you have financial problems, you don't balance your checkbook ever.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: You just ignore these things, and they're supposedly going away.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: I one of my close friends in the new age had a very serious medical issue, and she just ignored it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time she got to the doctor, it was stage four, and she's since passed.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, and I was able to this was, and then I was a Christian in midway through her um illness.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to share the biblical truth with her, and we pray that she um repented and turned to God.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: At only God knows, but and my point is that new age um is mind control and um teaches you that you are that's the biggest lie, that you are the one in control of everything.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: It is such a burden to carry on your shoulders every day.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then you have all these fundamentalist rituals in the new age you must complete every day.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to clear your chakras, check your astrological chart, watch out for Mercury retrograde.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to look at the moon calendar because you've got to clear your crystals in the full moon, and then you need to release your uh what your your banishing, that's the word you use, you banish things during the uh full moon, and then do a manifestation with a blank check from the universe on the full on the new moon.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can see I'm starting to forget some of this stuff because it's been nine years now, but the rituals are so time consuming, so expensive, and so empty and hollow.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get you anywhere.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's basically just I don't know, it's navel gazing.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's amazing because God wants us to be transparent.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, He doesn't want us to be um, you know, like hiding.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: But that's almost like if you if you're not telling people that you're sick or you're struggling financially or that you have burdens, you're actually lying not only to yourself, but you're lying to everyone else around you as well.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no transparency in that.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: I like that you use um um the scripture in Deuteronomy.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that there's some um New Testament scripture that I like that kind of kind of coincides with it, like Galatians 5.19 and Acts uh 32, I believe it is, um, that kind of go along with what that says.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to share with our listeners what Deuteronomy 18, 10 through 16 is about?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: So um back in January 2015, um, because I always thought of myself as a Christian, I told people I was a Christian, but I called myself an open-minded Christian.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was superior to evangelical Christians because I I knew the spiritual truth that all paths led to heaven as a universalist.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and I believed that people who were saying Allah or Buddha or Krishna were saying the same thing as us.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was just a different word.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, that's not true.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: We know from John 14, 6 that Jesus is the only way, truth, and life, and no one comes to the Father except by him.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: But back then, um, I would listen to radio shows and podcasts from Christian pastors, and I would listen to uh podcast interviews with Hindu gurus and Buddha practitioners and shaman, just it I've I was just anything, you know.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: I thought world religion is fascinating, so I was all in.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: But in January 2015, I was driving down the highway.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: We lived in Hawaii at the time, and I was listening to Christian Satellite Network, and Alistair Beg came on, and he was one of my favorites because of his sense of humor and his Scottish brogue.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he was talking about uh 2 Timothy 4 about in the end times people will want their itching ears tickled by false teachers.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then Mickey, he described a false teacher, and it was like he was describing me.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the first time in my life, I would have been 57 years old back then, maybe 56, but you know, and and it was the first time in my life that I had a conviction from the Holy Spirit for what I was doing.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I got home and I said to my husband, I told him about this, and I said, I think we need to start going to a regular church.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: I knew enough to know that we were not going to regular churches, we were going to unity.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I was still going to Christian science churches, and then often my husband and I would go to Roman Catholic churches because we liked the mysticism and the candles and the chants and the statues, especially.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: I loved statues there.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was an idolater.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but so that started me reading the whole Bible.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'd been reading the Bible since childhood.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, one of my first gifts I ever got from my parents was a um leather-bound King James Bible with my name inscribed on it.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's because we were King James only.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And but we'd read the Bible every day, except we would read cherry-picked verses that were considered positive.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And we'd skip over Genesis 3, we'd skip over the crucifixion.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't believe those.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: We we landed on Genesis 125 about we are made in God's image and likeness, we're the Imago Day, which is true.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: But we would skip over that, oh, we've fallen, and we would claim in New Thought and then in New Age, that we were still like God and being sinless.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't like Todd White's sinless perfectionism at all.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like that.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: We believed we didn't even have to strive that there's no such thing as sin, that that was a lie that was made up.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what we thought, Constantine or the Roman Catholic Church.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: We we believed that the whole idea of sin, devil, hell, repentance, that was all just an absolute fabrication to try to control people and get money from them.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how I lived most of my life.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I was hellbound and I was bringing people with me.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I I was reading the whole Bible finally.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: I had tried so many times in my life, and I finally my son sent me um the N NLT one-year Bible, not the chronological, but the traditional order of the books.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and so I could I was reading it every day.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: The one-year Bible was really.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Really helping me as a reading plan.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I got to Deuteronomy 18, where God is speaking through Moses as the second generation is about to go over the Jordan River into Canaan.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And God is saying, do not be like the Canaanites.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do not pass your son and daughter through the fire.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that was verse 10.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I had always been pro-life ever since my mother-in-law, back when I was a teenager, showed me a photo of an aborted baby.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Instantly I became pro-life.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: That works, those of you who are doing pro-life evangelism, show them a photo.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: It instantly converted me.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I don't, I didn't even know anything about abortion until then.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, the point is when it says in Deuteronomy 18, 10, don't pass your children through the fire like they were doing.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: They were sacrificing babies to Baal back then.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, well, that's not me.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: But then here's where I started to get convicted in Deuteronomy 18.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: It said, um, I'm paraphrasing, do not be like the Canaanites, do not practice divination, fortune telling.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was not only practicing it, I was teaching it, and I was producing through my former publisher cards called angel cards that were based on tarot.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: And later on, I even made some angel tarot cards.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we were thinking these these were okay because they didn't have pentagrams on them or they didn't have devils on them, but they were the same.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: They were divination.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I was getting convicted, of course, from that.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then it said, do not practice mediumship, necromancy.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was not only doing that, I was teaching it and writing about it, um, which uh we could talk about that sometime.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then do not interpret signs and omens, which I was doing.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then the kicker, as I mentioned before, Deuteronomy 18, 12 said, anyone who practices these methods, that person, not just the practices, the person is a detestable abomination to God.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew it was true in my soul.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was doubled over with conviction.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: I was crying my eyes out.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I was begging God, please, I know I knew that I deserved hell right then.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Finally, I and I said, please don't send me to hell.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Please don't send any of the people that I unknowingly deceived to hell.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I said something that I believed back then I don't know, but I said, I didn't know, I didn't know, I didn't know, but I did know because I'd heard the gospel through my life, but I had rejected it.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I wouldn't have had an excuse on judgment day of not knowing.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I, you know, the gospel, the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: That was me.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: So how can how can someone tell the difference between Holy Spirit and the counterfeit spiritual experience?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know, but I want you to explain to our listeners because you know, I I I find it interesting, and I've always found interesting because I've always just followed Jesus out of the gate, like once I got saved at 10 years old with Billy Graham, you know, like and and I've heard people say, you know, you know, this and that.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I also know, um, uh, you know, raised in foster homes, I I lived in different households that had different religions and and different beliefs and different, you know, ritualistics and routines.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had to live like this lifestyle over here and this lifestyle over here, and I and I got confused for a while.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I went through a very rebellious stage.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I still didn't walk away from Jesus Christ, but I I wasn't like following and chasing after him like I do now.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I know I also liked I liked astrology.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: I liked going and getting my fortune cookie.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: I liked, you know, I wanted to get that, you know, I used to save every one of those papers.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: I had a whole bowl for full of them because I thought all those things are gonna come true.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, all those fortunes, excuse me.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh my goodness, you know, and then I and then I thought, you know, I as a Christian, I thought, well, they can't, they're not gonna harm me.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't gonna hurt me.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if I do yoga, this is not gonna hurt me.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe in it.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna do the exercise, you know, and and finally God started really convicting me over it.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: I don't do my horoscope anymore.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, when I go to the Chinese restaurant, I open it, I read it, and I leave it on the table, I don't even take it out the door because I don't want it with me.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't believe in it.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's falseism, you know, and um I I just you know I've learned, but how would you tell a person that cannot distinguish between whole actual Holy Spirit and that counterfeit spiritual experience?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because even though as a Christian, I I still did those things, you know what I mean?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I understand.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, ever since Eve, especially I think us women, um, and and it sounds like you like me have gone through trauma in your past, and trauma makes us vulnerable.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: One of the ways, and I'll get to your answer, uh, just kind of coming through through a different avenue if it's okay.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I mentioned that I was a psychotherapist for women, inpatient and outpatient.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: And my my specialty was women who'd been um who'd survived childhood abuse, ritual abuse, um, you know, all sorts of abuse and abandonment and betrayal.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what and I had too growing up.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so one of the things I learned was that we develop hypervigilance, and we we um to survive, we have to be able to know whether the person who's our foster parent or a parent, um, let's say the dad, when he comes home drunk, beats us.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to learn how to be really sensitive.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is dad in that mood?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is he drunk or not?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: And this hypervigilance um is is is a survival skill.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: So that would be genuine, even though it's based on a sin that was done to us.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: But the devil wants to counterfeit that as a psychic ability and wants to twist it into this desire to know the future through astrology, through cards, through psychics, um, and as a way of trying to control the future.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: When you're a child who's being abused, you have zero control of your life, except for in your head.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a lot of the women I worked with, they would dissociate.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I did that too.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Dissociation is where you space out and you kind of go in this fantasy world that seems very real, it seems safe.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: And dissociation is a huge part of new age, Wicca, and witchcraft deception, because you necessarily have to believe some of the delusions that they teach.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: And these delusions are that you know, that your excuse me, sorry, your astrological sign could influence tomorrow when there's thousands, maybe billions of people, millions of people at least, born on your exact same day, probably where you know, in the the latitude and longitude you were born at at that moment.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for example, I was born on the very same day as um uh Eve Plum, who was on the Brady Bunch, not Marsha, but the uh the one Jan below that.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: We were born in the same hospital on the exact same day.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, and we were actually neighbors for a while when I lived in Hawaii.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: We lived in the same neighborhood, um, which is weird.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you would say, okay, is that astrological?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I didn't become a TV star as a young kid.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: So how could you know how can astrology be true?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of holes in everything the new age teaches.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's contradictions, galore, um, such as the belief in reincarnation that they borrowed from Hinduism.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so women who come out of trauma are more apt to be hyper-vigilant, which means they've really developed what in secular would be called intuition to a heightened degree.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of the women who've been traumatized become professional psychics because you can get paid to use this skill that you use to survive.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of women who've been traumatized and dissociate get really involved with channeling or trans channeling because you just go into this altered state where you lose all awareness of what's going on around you.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then the devil's very happy to come occupy that that space.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's why in 1 Peter 5:8, it says, be sober-minded, be alert, because our adversary, the devil, is prowling around like a roaring lion seeking someone to devour.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: These new age practices put you in a trance, and the devil takes advantage of that because he has no mercy at all.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: I like what you said earlier about when you're talking about all of these things, how um you you just felt hollow.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was just hollow.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't, it wasn't actually like when you eat a meal and you actually get filled up on something because that's what Holy Spirit does.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Holy Spirit gives us that feeling.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I like that you identified it as that because it it's so relatable to people where they're like, man, I just feel empty.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: I just feel like something's missing.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's interesting.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: I did have a question about um, I know a group of witches, and I don't I don't associate with them, but I, you know, um a couple of them, I'm an artist, so a couple of them have come to my paint class, and I didn't know that they were part of the witch group, okay?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a Christian and I'm I I don't I don't hold back my faith.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: I talk about it and every time every time I paint, you know, and um stuff, and they didn't say anything, they didn't say anything.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: And my daughter said, they're part of a witch group.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, so what?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is good they're here, you know.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Praise God, they're here, you know.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: But but she said, but they're not they're not the bad witches.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: They're not the ones that like are casting, like casting spells on people and stuff.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, I I go, witches or witches, whether they practice white magic, black magic, whatever kind of magic there is, it's all bad.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, no, they're the good witches.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: You'll really like them.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I it doesn't matter if I like them as a person, their characteristic, I don't believe in what they're doing.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's wrong, it's against it's against God, you know.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um I got really uncomfortable because I was like, you know, they were trying to justify being good witches, you know.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that we get um what we we get is we we get sucked into stuff because our emotions and our, you know, like you said, our backgrounds, where the trauma that we go through, we kind of cling to what's some things that just feel good, that fill that gap, that make us, you know, it's like, oh, this, you know, it makes you feel like you're accepted, you're wanted, and and so you you partake in it, and you're like, oh, that's really interesting.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: I like that, it's cool, I feel good in it, but you're still empty, you know.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that you said that, you know, people feel hollow.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did those practices affect your peace, your identity, and your actual mental status?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you, Mickey.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love that story.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we could talk for hours, I can tell.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't think I finally completed your last question about how do you distinguish the difference between the counterfeit and the Holy Spirit?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, at the moment of conversion, um, when we repent and we uh turn to Jesus and trust him and believe the gospel of his life, death, and resurrection, we are filled with the Holy Spirit.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Praise God, we need the Holy Spirit, and the difference is that the Holy Spirit would never contradict what God's word says.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, and the devil always contradicts.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's one more reason why we have to read the Bible, even though some people say it's confusing or or boring, they don't understand it.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's why I went to seminary because I'd been reading the Bible my whole life, but it was through the lens of Mary Bakeretti and New Thought, and I needed to learn how to rightly divide God's word.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I spent two and a half years full-time at Western Seminary, and I did that because I needed to get gospel-centered and see Jesus in every part of the Bible.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so when the Holy Spirit speaks to us, it's always going to be what Jesus promised when he left.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: He said, I'm sending the parakletos, the comforter to you, and he will comfort you, he will guide you, he will remind you of my teachings, Jesus' teachings, he will convict you of your sins.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got to listen.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: The Holy Spirit is always right.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think we women have a rebellious streak.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure that's what God was talking about as he cast Eve and Adam out of the garden.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's part of the curse.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've got to watch our our little bit of that.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I am woman, hear me roar, all these messages from the world, you know, the feminist movement was because I I grew up in the 60s when it was Gloria Steinem and Marina Brass.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you remember any of that, but um we have we just got to watch that rebelliousness because we do not want to grieve the Holy Spirit and we do not want to sear our conscience by trying to bypass what he's telling us.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: If the Holy Spirit convicts you, listen.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it hurts, even if it's expensive, even if it seems to cost you a relationship, we we have no choice.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: The law is written on our heart anyway.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and that and that goes back to your question about so-called good witches, which I knew some also in the new age.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and they did seem to be good, they did seem to have kind of this brightness about them.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: But Mickey, I don't know if you've seen this.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's now this new movement where some women are calling themselves Christian witches.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and it's such an oxymoron.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's impossible.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: You can't be Christian, means Christ's follower, and the Bible is God's word.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: You can't do something that God condemns.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: And you, as you mentioned, it's not in only in the old testament, it's in the new testament.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Going right up to Revelation 21 and 22, that sorcerers and idolaters will be cast into the lake of fire.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is this is salvific.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this is not just about entertainment, which is what it can seem like to people, or they think it's trendy, it's cool.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Taylor Swift's doing it, so I should do it too.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: But it's this this is a highway to hell that we're talking about.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you cannot redeem paganism.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: I get that argument all the time.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: What women want to argue with me that you can redeem yoga by uh reciting Bible verses and God knows my heart.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not worshiping Hindu deities.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, God does know your heart, you should be afraid.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and you know, you're the Lord, right?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Obedience.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I did yoga for almost ever almost 20 years, almost every day when I was in the new age.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: I threw my yoga mats away.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: I still stretch every day, but I do non-yoga Pilati stretches.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think stretching is natural and healthful, but the yoga moves are not natural.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you I don't recommend this, but if you go to the ancient Hindu scriptures, it says in there that yoga means in Sanskrit um to bind or yoke.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: And in and it's yoking to their creator deity, Shiva, Brahma, Vishnu.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't want to yoke to another deity, to a pagan deity.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then each of the poses in the Hindu scriptures is to glorify one of their 330 million deities or nature, because they worship nature.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's these poses, I did them, so no one can argue with me about this.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: These are not natural stretches.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Let's take the warrior pose from Sun Salutation series as an example.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: The warrior pose is not a natural stretch, you have to be perpendicular, or the instructor will come over and correct your pose.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: They may say it's safety, but it's precision, because that's what the Hindu scriptures say.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: So in Sanskrit, the warrior pose is called Virabhadrasana.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: Asana means pose in Sanskrit.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's the pos of Virabhras, who in Hindu mythology is a deity who was involved with uh, I don't want to say the wrong word and get you shadow banned, but he was involved in destroying one of the other deities.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so you're literally with your body with the warrior pose, which is in the so-called holy and Christian yoga movement, that pose is still there.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_01: They might call it something different, uh, but it's still the same pose with the same precision.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're using your body to glorify and mimic Farabadras, a Hindu deity.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: That's bad enough, but you're you're acting out a Hindu mythological destruction, war scene with your body.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the Bible, of course, tells us to glorify God with our body.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: The context is in intimacy, but we have a practical application that that means from we can look at Corinthians, 2nd Corinthians, we can see glorify God in everything you do, whatever you eat, drink.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you're not glorifying our one true God with your body with yoga, you're glorifying Hindu deities, you're literally making your body into a graven image.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you're breaking commandments one and two, and you're probably using the Lord's name in vain if you're pasting Bible verses on top of that.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I always use this analogy because it's startling and it's so true, is that you could take a Ouija board and paste Bible verses on it and use uh sing worship music while you're using the Ouija board, but it's still a pagan device.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yoga's the same, it's not like the meat of 1 Corinthians 8 and 10, where the meat was redeemed.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: It is analogous to the pagan temple and the pagan prayers that were put over the meat.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: And those were never said to be redeemed.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: And Paul said, I'll never do anything to cause a brother to stumble.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: If a professing a professing Christian woman has a yoga mat under her arm and goes to yoga classes, that could cause someone to stumble.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: We have to be careful of that.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I became a polytheist by going to yoga studios because it's littered with Hindu and Buddha statues.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so soon I bought some statues like that from my house.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I started praying to those statues because I was spiritually blind.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: But that was that came uh through yoga.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I'm just gonna keep going with this for a minute, if I could.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an administrator of a private support group on Facebook called From New Age to Jesus.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: And in that group, we did a survey of the new Christians who were saved out of New Age.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we asked them, how did you get a new age in the first place?
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, because of health concerns.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: They were death, they were desperate for a healing.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: So they went to a yoga class, they said, because it does feel good.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: And new age does seem to work to a degree.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: But then once they were in yoga class, you get down this pipeline of deception.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: So the yoga teacher sometimes uses tarot cards, they lead you through a guided meditation called Shavasana, and they often suggest that you listen to your spirit guide.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: The people you meet there could it could recommend that you go to their Reiki master or to their psychic.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you just you just want this, you're insatiably wanting more and more and more because that quest for secret wisdom and control and power is insatiable.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you asked about peace.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's like in Jeremiah, the false prophet saying, peace, peace, where there was no peace.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're always chanting shanti shanti in these classes, uh, which in Sanskrit is peace, peace.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: There they chant Am and Namaste, which are shocking, blasphemous.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: Absolute no Christian.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm saying that and I'm apologizing right away and repenting because it's illustration.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: But my point is that in in yoga classes, there was this illusion of peace in the New Age meditation, same thing.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: Illusion of peace.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was temporary euphoria looking back.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a high.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and for me, also because I was empty and hollow, and I was seeking the truth.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: I was seeking peace, even though I was teaching that here's the here's the truth through angels.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: They were demons masquerading as angels.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I didn't know that at the time.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I was seeking for peace, like everyone does who doesn't know Jesus outside of myself through shopping.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was making a ton of money in the new age, but I was spending more than I was making.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: I left the new age broke and in debt.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm currently paying off debt.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: People often say, oh, she's a millionaire from the new age.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: There I was in the new age, but the devil makes us indentured servants.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you spend more than you're making so that he he ensures you have to continue working.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: And almost every one of the new age teachers I was traveling with were in the same financial boat of living this lavish lifestyle.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we would buy all the designer clothes and everything, but we were seeking peace.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: We we were teaching a false peace, a false light.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I never found peace until the Holy Spirit indwelled me the day I was saved.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: And since that time, I've had some really horrible things happen.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: My parents both died of old age.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was caring for them the last seven years of their life.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: They were living with me.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what that's like as a caretaker.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it's not easy.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was going through that.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was going to seminary while caring for them, and um, and my parents dying, and then I've had a lot of friends die, pets die, um, just and then the financial trouble I'm in because of um, I went from being a multimillionaire to basically no money, and that you get you it's hard, but anyway, it threw it all in the middle of me is like the eye of the hurricane.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's this peace that does surpass understanding that only comes through Jesus.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we can try every ritual in the world and we'll never get there.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's only through Jesus' work on the cross and through his shed blood.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: He bought us for a price.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: That is awesome.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry that might have sounded not what I meant to say in that that exact moment, but um it's awesome that you've recognized what it's done to you, is what I'm saying.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what I wanted to talk talk about is the Ouija board, how you're talking about covering it up.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: I always think of it because it's so idolatrous, you know, everything everything that that it is, any type you're um honoring or supporting or or seeking or uh representing or getting fulfilled from that is not God, you're you're you're seeking um idolatry, you know, you're you're worshiping something that's idolistic.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think about it as the devil, like even if you put the devil in a a perfect costume and he didn't look like the devil and you took him to dinner, you're still with the devil.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's the enemy.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: You still it's still the enemy.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: The wick uh or the Ouija board, it's still wrong.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: And people say, Oh, I'm just trying it for fun.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I I try to tell people, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: And even recently, I used to love horror movies and scary movies.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I still sometimes get drawn to watch some of them.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I like to watch ones that are based off from a true story.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'll watch those.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: But if it's one of those, you know, if it's just a just a horrible horror movie, I'm I'm not watching it, you know.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: And my daughter's like really b bummed about it because we used to have horror movie night and turn off all the lights and, you know, popcorn and just get the fried of the night.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, you know, we're just summoning the the the enemy in our home.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: We're opening up those doorways for the enemy to just come right on in and have a seat at the table.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we're not supposed to mix with the enemies.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're not supposed to partake in anything that's demonic.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're supposed to stare clear of it.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Matter of fact, we're supposed to rebuke it and we're supposed to stomp on it.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're not supposed to invite it in.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I get I I love that you said that about the Ouija board, and I'm hoping our listeners are are really paying attention because it's important that they understand that the enemy comes in all different colors.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't come like red the red devil with the the thorn or the horns and the tail.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: He he comes in all different ways.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to be paying attention and be mindful to what Christ says.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Christ says, you know, be paying attention, be in the word, be in Proverbs.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: Proverbs is a great book for knowledge and wisdom.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Samson was an intelligent man.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: He knew what he was talking about when he wrote the book of Proverbs.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: He wrote most of the book of Proverbs, you know, and so much intelligence, and you can just gain so much wisdom just from that book.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: You can from any book, but there's a lot of wisdom there.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: And um teaching you how to live and whatnot and what you're supposed to be doing.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so I think it's interesting how easily we can be detoured and distracted into something, like just a simple practice.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, I, you know, even my daughter and I, we still go to the Mongolian barbecue and I get a fortune cookie every time.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: And what's really funny is when I open it up and there's not one, she's like, Oh, you got ripped.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Nope, I got blessed.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I love it when it's missing because I I'm like, she's like, What do you mean?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I no fortune cookie, yay! Because I that thought would have stayed in my mind if I had I read it.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I know what it attaches itself to you that quick.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we think it's simple and it's not hurtful and it's not gonna hurt anybody, it's so dangerous to dabble.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: People don't know what how dangerous it is to dabble in in, you know, in the realm of the enemy.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I have one more question for you before we wrap up.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: I know we're we're going a little long.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: So um, if you could tell someone that's listening today that's that's questioning, they're they're kind of on the fence, you know.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: They're I have a like I'll give you an example real quick.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: I have a friend, again, the angelic numbers, as we talked about in the very beginning.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: He's a great Christian.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: He believes in God.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I believe that he's a Christian, but he goes, everywhere I go, I see my angel number.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: Everywhere I go, everywhere I go.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: And and I I'm like, I I told him, I said, Will you will you please look in?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Will you please research that?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because he doesn't believe what I'm saying.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, look at that for yourself.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: I go, where does it say in the Bible that you have to have an angelic number and it means something, you know?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so what would you tell someone listening or that's just sitting on the fence that just can't shift what to do?
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what would you recommend for them?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, praise the Lord He has a caring, biblically mature Christian friend like you, Mickey.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: He's very blessed.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: I hope he knows that.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: And he'd be wise to listen to you.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I have some free resources, and one of them is called Biblical Truth About Angel Numbers.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's free on Kindle Unlimited.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's a short book, maybe 25 pages.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you wanted to buy it, you could, but it I don't, I'm not looking for people to buy my stuff.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: I just put a lot of these discipleship resources for people who are evangelizing to new agers or who are in new age but being drawn out.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you'd mentioned Counterfeit to Christ, Eve's Pagan Daughters, How to Avoid New Age and New Thought Deception.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: But for your friend, specifically my book called Uh Biblical Truth About Angel Numbers, because I'm the one that coined that phrase.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps he'd listen to that.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that I'm the one who said, I'm so sorry, I made a huge mistake by uh creating that phrase.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, Dr.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: Frankenstein, and I want to put it back in the closet now, but I can't because it's been unleashed.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: The best I can do is tell people it's it is not innocent, it is not similar to the numbers in the Bible at all.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: It contradicts the Bible in every way, shape, and form.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: Divination is condemned in the old and in the new testament.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: We can go to Acts 16, 16 with the slave girl who had the python spirit.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: She was possessed.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's how she did divination.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, so there's there's no redemption of angel numbers.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: When people see repeating numbers, it's a psychological process called uh selective attention.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: Selective attention means, as an example, you meet a new friend who drives a yellow Honda sedan car.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then you really like this new friend, and all of a sudden, when you're driving, you notice there's all these yellow Honda sedan cars everywhere because you're kind of looking for her.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the same way, you know, when you see 111, it is a pattern, and our our our human nature is to notice patterns, but it's not a sign from God, it's not a personal revelation.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: A heart-shaped rock is not a message from God, a song on the radio is not a message from God.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's the your birthday does not correlate to your life verse in the Bible.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: Those verses are not divinely inspired.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: We have to quit trying to control and predict everything through these creations of God and go directly to the creator for biblical wisdom, or go to a mature Christian like yourself for biblical wisdom if you're if you don't know the Bible yet.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just I I can recognize myself for 59 years, I was on that hamster wheel of chasing after the truth through these means, and it gets you nowhere.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like climbing a mountain, but there's another mountain and another mountain and another mountain.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's endless until it leads you to hell.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying that it's a self-ivic issue for your friend.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, he's a sincere professing Christian, but this is not pleasing to God at all to try to get revelation from something apart from his word.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's really good.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm definitely gonna send him this episode.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_01: Good.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, friend.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to it.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: I won't say his name.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: I won't say his name.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I will send it to him definitely because you know, it we had a conversation, we've had a couple conversations about it, and and I was just like, man, I I wish you'd understand what what it means, you know.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: But um people think there's signs in everything, like, oh, it's a sign from God, it's a sign from God.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and I I believe in, you know, prophetic, you know, there's there's a lot of people that are very prophetic, and you'll you'll get word from them.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had you know people speak over me prophetically, and um it's like interesting because people will look at anything and and and try to correlate it with the word of God or the Bible.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like we live in live in this world that's gonna go to the wasteland, you know, it's gonna burn up, you know, and if nothing's going with us.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: We came here with nothing, we're going with nothing.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: We can't use everything that we lay our eyes on as a sign from God for you know, whatever it is, like, oh, if I find um um um a d uh not like my mom found change on the ground all the time and would think, oh, you know, oh, oh, oh, I'm gonna get rich.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: I found a you know, I'm like, yeah, you're gonna get a penny, Richard.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's not it.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're not gonna get anything spiritual out of it.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're getting a penny, you know?
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not attached to anything.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: We attach ourselves, and I love that you're talking about the association.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: We associate, like the the yellow Honda.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it is.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: All we do is we associate it with it, and that's what happens.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because I see that happen all the time with people with cars, you know.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: Until you go test drive a car, you don't ever see them.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you test drive them, they're everywhere, you know.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if it goes back to Acts 17, 11, with the Bereans testing what Paul said against Scripture.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: So if it contradicts scripture, it's not from God.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: And if it if it agrees with scripture without twisting that verse, as some are prone to do, then it then it's from God.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's you know, the Bible's our guardrails, and we we've got to just keep going back to what does the word say?
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: What does the word say?
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, in every part of our life, and that will keep us from strain.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: There is spiritual warfare galore.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: Once we are saved, we've got the indwelling Holy Spirit, we can no longer be possessed, but we can't, we will.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's promised in Ephesians 6 that we're going to battle against demons.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the ways they do that is by trying to tempt us.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_01: And for your friend, it could be the temptation of trying to get a message from a repeating number sequence.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, the temptations are different for everyone because the devil's an evil genius who studies us and knows how to mislead us.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: We just have to be completely sober-minded and alert.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: We have to submit to God, resist the devil, and he will flee.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: And trust Jesus.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I when I was first saved, I never knew anything about spiritual warfare.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: And those so-called spirit guides I'd been following, the so-called angels, suddenly they they're unveiled to me.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: These are demons with fangs, and they are so angry with me that I'm now following Jesus instead of them.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm telling people the gospel on social media instead of pointing people to follow these demons, which I thought were angels.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't sleep.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: I had insomnia, I had nightmares.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was, I was a wreck with spiritual warfare.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, this continues in this side of heaven for all Christians.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I went to deliverance ministries to try to have the demons cast out.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the one waved his cross in front of me, it's a very famous deliverance minister.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and and and it would make me temporarily feel better, but then they would come back even more.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, I have to study the Bible.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: What does the Bible say about spiritual warfare?
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it it really does equip us.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in the early church doesn't have any deliverance ministry after Jesus delivered and Paul delivered in Acts, it doesn't tell us to cast out demons or scream at the devil everywhere anywhere in the epistles, but it does say in James to submit to God.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we have to, as best as we can, be obedient to God.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: All of us are gonna sin.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's we repent and and try to, like Psalm 139, reveal in me, Lord, anything that's offended you.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: Please forgive me.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: We have to be sober-minded and alert.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't mean we can't drink once in a while, but we can't get drunk.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, drunkenness is a sin because it's dangerous.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: And we've just got to be alert, not to the point where we're legalists.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: We do have Christian freedom, um, but our freedom is not to sin.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have any kind of freedom to do what God has condemned.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: So um it's it's navigating this world that's just ripe with temptations from the devil, the world, and our flesh, and and doing the best to stay on the straight and narrow.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's why we need fellowship with one another and prayer with one from one another.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the word says that the enemy comes to steal, kill, and destroy, but but Jesus came to give us life, and not just life, but life more abundantly.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's funny how we will allow the enemy to wreck us when he's the one actually wrecking us.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: But we don't even realize he's the one wrecking us, but we we won't lean on the one who's gonna save us.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll run to the end, we'll go back and go back and go back every time.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_00: But and God, Jesus is over here, he's like, I have life for you and I have it abundantly if you just recognize that that's the enemy that's doing that.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's only coming to kill, steal, and destroy.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's not your friend.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't care about you, he doesn't want nothing to do with you.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: Matter of fact, as long as as long as he's got you under his finger, he don't even think one iota about you anymore.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, God, he's got you hooked, you know.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell people that are Christians that are struggling in that that spiritual battle, that you know, if you're spiritually battling the the enemy, you need to stop thinking so much about the enemy and just focus on Christ.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that will go away.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: It will literally go away because it says if you mention the name of Jesus, he has to go away.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: He flees.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I tell people, just start talking about, just talk to Jesus.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: The enemy will hate it and he will leave you alone.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's not, you know, the Bible never says he's never gonna pastor you or we're not gonna have trials and tribulations.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: God never said anything was gonna be easy.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: My foster mom or my grandmother told me one time, and she was my foster grandma, the one I've been taking care of for six years.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: She's my foster grandma since I was two.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I took, I've been taking care of for six years, so I'll make this really quick.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: I was angry with my mom, in and out of foster homes.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was 14, rebellious.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um started smoking when I was 12, and you know, I was chasing men when I was 14, and I was just, you know, I was following my mom's footsteps, but I was also mad at my mom because my mom didn't want me.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember being really mad at my mom and said something really horrible to my grandma about my mom, and my my grandma kind of grabbed me up and she said, Hey, she said, You have to honor your mother.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I don't honor anything she does.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, No, you have to honor her, you don't have to like anything she does.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: She goes, You don't have to like it, but the God the word says you have to honor and you have to love her.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it really struck me, you know, after getting saved, you know, at 10 years old and I was 14, and it really hit me and it brought me right back to Jesus.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, because Jesus did that.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, oh my gosh.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and I took care of my mom for the rest of her life.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: She got sick and had dementia, and and I took care of her for 20 years, you know, and and we had a very not good relationship, you know.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of abuse in my life, and I blamed her for allowing a lot of it to happen because of her mistakes.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, forgave her, she got saved.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: Three years before she died, she got saved, and I have pictures of me and her worshiping Jesus together.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it took 20 years of my life to get her there, but probably because when I was 14, I was really wishing bad things on her.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was really wishing bad things would happen to her.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I still think about that, and I'm thankful now that God took that that hate away from me because it could have been detrimental for me.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's kids killing their parents all day long.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I would I would have done that, but who knows had I not gotten through that, you know?
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it's true.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: And the root of the root of bitterness is toxic too.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: We have to say it's dangerous.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_01: We have to put we have to pray for God to pull out the root of any bitterness we have.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we're commanded to forgive.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we are.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're not given any wiggle room on that.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: We have to forgive.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: But we don't have to forgive on our own.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, we don't have to like it.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have to do it on our own strength.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: We can't.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: We we we lean on Christ's strength to forgive.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a supernatural work of God to be able to forgive those who've abused us.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as we go on to closing, would you feel like um closing us out in prayer today?
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: I would love that.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, sister.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'd be so honored.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: Heavenly Father, we praise you for your grace, your mercy, your generosity, kindness, your love.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we also praise you for your uh attributes of being just and holy.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we know that we have sinned.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: We've sinned in our past before we knew you, Lord.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: We continue to sin.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and we thank you for sending the Holy Spirit to indwell us through our faith in Jesus.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um, we pray that if we are doing anything that is displeasing to you, Lord, that the Holy Spirit will reveal it to us, will convict us so clearly that we can easily notice and that you will give us strength to walk away from anything that's displeasing to you, Lord.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: Please help us to no longer hunger after that which is condemned.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: Please help us to stop seeking and searching for peace where it's not there.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: And please help us to know that your son Jesus, who died for us on the cross, the only one to live a sinless life and to resurrect from the dead, that Jesus is sufficient for all of our needs.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: Please help us to keep our eyes on Jesus and not on this world.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: And for our needs, to just know that you supply all of our needs, Lord, and we thank you so much for your provision and your protection.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: Please, Lord, keep having patience with us because we are being sanctified daily and learning and growing, as you know.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: And please um we pray that for our our loved ones who don't know you, we pray that you'll send an evangelist across their path that they would notice and listen to and believe.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we pray that they would plant the seed of the gospel in their hearts and you would nurture that seed and have it grow into repentance and salvation, Lord.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we thank you so much for everything in the name of Jesus.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so, so much.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to say that um I know that um you you're doing a wonderful job at fulfilling, you know, your calling on your life.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I I know you you what you were saying in the beginning um about how you know how hard it can be with everything.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, people, you know, um reprinting your books and you're trying, you're trying to put a stop to certain things.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: And kind of like I tell my tell my kids, you know, and my daughter, and like, be careful what pictures you take.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: Once you post it, they're gone forever, and who knows where they're gonna land.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, but I deleted it.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, they're not deleted ever, ever, ever, ever.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: So be careful, you know, be so just be so careful, you know.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so, um, I'm so I'm so thankful that that you became a Christian and I got to meet you.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm very honored.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: I feel so honored that we got to talk today.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you've taught me a lot.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: I could talk to you probably, like you said, for hours.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I know we both have things to do, but it's been a blessing.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_00: But to our listeners, um, can you tell our listeners where they can they can find you?
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm on Instagram, um, and my name is Doreen Virtue, D-O-R-E-E-N-V-I-R-T-U-E on Instagram, and that takes you kind of to other links that I have, um, such as my free resources on Kindle Unlimited.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: You'll see my old work, it's 2017 when I was saved and earlier.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then I've got a lot of free resources on there on Kindle Unlimited on Amazon.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: And to all of our listeners, I just want to say thank you for joining us today.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I hope that you like, share, and follow this episode so that we can um help anybody else out there that's struggling with witchcraft or or um sorcery or um even mediums or or psychics or any of that.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you're if you're dabbling or you're in that realm and um you're not sure of where to lean, listen to this episode so we can help you through that and share it with somebody that you may know that that is is is needing um a little pick me up and a little bit of Jesus, because you know what, Jesus it says only needs a little bit of mustard seed to go a long, long way.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: So um I just want to thank everyone for listening.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you need prayer for anything, go to cursionstrongholds.com.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's where you can find me.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_00: I always offer prayer there for anybody that needs it.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and if you're struggling with strongholds, you can also reach me for that too.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: And Doreen, it was such an honor, it was such a pleasure to have you.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so thankful that you came and that we actually got to meet up.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so I hope you have a wonderful and blessed day, and I hope that we actually get to do this again.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, thank you, sister.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: All glory to God.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you so much.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: You have a blessed day.