Latest / Galaxies and Goddesses: A Sci-Fi & Fantasy Bookcast / Mythmakers and Memoirs: The Power of Telling Your Own Story
Transcript
- J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, and Memoirs Andrea: I’m Andrea. Elizabeth: And I'm Elizabeth. Andrea: Join us as we chat about sci-fi and fantasy books and beyond. Elizabeth: Looking for a little escape from reality? So are we. Andrea: Welcome to Galaxies and Goddesses. Elizabeth: On this week’s episode we're talking about the man behind the Lord of the Rings trilogy, J.R.R. Tolkien. Andrea: Specifically, we'll be chatting about J.R.R. Tolkien's friendship with C.S. Lewis and a few memoirs we've read recently. Elizabeth: Along with some of what inspired these two authors. Andrea: Let's get started! Andrea: To get a little bit more insight into J.RR. Tolkien, I looked up biographies, and I came across this really interesting graphic novel called The Mythmakers by John Hendrix. It was published in 2024 and it’s actually really fun story that follows a wizard and a lion describing the relationship and life of J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. I didn't realize they were such friends. Did you know that they were friends Elizabeth? Had you heard that before? Elizabeth: I don't think I had heard that before. Somewhere in, reading The Hobbit, or The Lord of the Rings, or both, but in some of the stuff in the beginning, like, you know, some of the accompanying material to some of those mentioned something about a friendship with C.S. Lewis. Elizabeth: Either that or it might be that the social media algorithms pick up this stuff easily. The Instagram algorithm has definitely figured out I'm interested in Lord of the Rings more recently. Elizabeth: And so maybe there might have been something on Instagram that I saw about a friendship with C.S. Lewis, but only very recently. Andrea: They were like best friends and they really encouraged each other's writing at a pivotal time in their lives. And they had very similar backgrounds and they both lost families at a very young age, and were involved in the war. Andrea: In the Great War, also known as, World War I, they served in different areas, so they didn't meet while in the military. Andrea: They met after they'd come back. They both became professors at Oxford University in England, and that's where they ended up meeting. Andrea: Yeah, so this book, The Mythmakers by John Hendrix, just was a delightful read. Andrea: It's in such a fun format. I would highly recommend reading it if you enjoy, Lord the Rings, The Hobbit, or The Chronicles of Narnia. Andrea: There's a point where it's a choose your own adventure in the book. There's different portals that you can travel to to learn about different topics like fairytales or myths. Andrea: Each portal is just a bit of extra storytelling that makes it fun to read. Andrea: Yeah, it’s super light reading, but it covers important aspects of the author's lives: their childhood, their time in the war, coming back at Oxford, the times that they encouraged each other to write, and they had these, writing or literary groups. Andrea: So, when they were at Oxford together, they created this group called the Kolbitars, which is a reference to Kolibtar, meaning coal biters. It originated from people sitting around a fire telling stories. If you're looking up information about Tolkien, you learn these things, but I wouldn't have known that. Andrea: These portals are fun little things that I would've never known. So if you don't go through the portals, you might not learn fun facts like this. “I'll bet you didn't know. Mr. Tolkien was nominated in 1961 for the Nobel Prize in literature.” Andrea: “In 2012, the secret nomination records for the Nobel Prize process were finally released. Tolkien had been nominated for the prize by his friend Mr. C.S. Lewis.” Elizabeth: Oh, that’s cute! Andrea: Yeah! Elizabeth: C.S. Lewis nominated him for a Nobel Prize of Literature? Oh that’s cute. Andrea: Yes. He didn't win, but they supported each other. Elizabeth: That’s great! Andrea: This book is so cute. The idea that reading a fantasy book is a portal to joy. sharing that joy of reading with friends can make the experience so much better. Andrea: And a lot of me reading the book about, this epic friendship or fellowship between these two authors reminded me of our podcast. Andrea: Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, their nicknames for each other: Tolkien was Tollers, and C.S. Lewis was Jack. I would've never guessed that. Elizabeth: Jack? You know, I can understand Tolkien - Tollers. Sure. But where does Jack come from? Lewis's name is Clive Staples Lewis. Elizabeth: They knew each other so well, they were such good friends and obviously they must have influenced each other's work. Elizabeth: C.S. Lewis writes with Christian themes. The Chronicles of Narnia where Aslan is God and sacrificed to save the people, like Jesus, and then as well as I know other things that C.S. Lewis wrote. Elizabeth: Whereas I feel like Tolkien, reading The Lord of the Rings again and trying to dive a little bit deeper into it, more than just sort of the surface story and, and thinking about it as like a moral tale. And so then there are lots of things that yes can be I think probably compared to Christianity, but I don't know that it's quite as overt. Andrea: Explicit? Elizabeth: Exactly! Elizabeth: So much of the morality of religion and Christianity influences both. Can't say I'm super familiar with other things that CS Lewis wrote other than The Chronicles of Narnia. I have read The Chronicles Narnia, but I haven't read anything else. Andrea: That's actually one of the things that the book does talk a lot about is that they were similar in their Christian faith. C.S. Lewis was actually an atheist for most of his life until he met Tolkien and that group of literary friends. It talks about how they went on this walk in the woods and then he changed his faith. Andrea: Like it kind of came to him overnight and wrote a lot about it. And that possibly was a reason they had a little bit of a falling out between J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, because C.S. Lewis wrote a lot about religion and sort of Christian allegory type writing that maybe Tolkien wasn't as much of a fan of that. Andrea: It says that he might have looked at that as not the place of an author. That should be for religious people to share the gospel. That it should be coming from someone of the church and not an academic. Elizabeth: Hmm. Elizabeth: Well that’s hard. It sort of maybe could create an argument for why C.S. Lewis wrote so much about Christianity, if he came as the standpoint of an atheist and then converted to Christianity. Then there's just, I think a lot more to wrestle with as an adult when you make that kind of leap of faith. Whereas if someone's raised in a faith, there isn't as much of a leap there. I mean, often as an adult you have to continue to wrestle with your faith and do you still believe it? And you know, the ongoing, travails of having any sort of belief system, but for somebody that comes to it from a point of atheism as an adult to Christianity, I feel like there's just probably more to wrestle with there. Elizabeth: So then how could that not affect your writing? People write what they know. Andrea: Right. Elizabeth: If those are the of questions that you're wrestling with as an adult, it would make sense that in some way that's gonna come out in your writing. Elizabeth: At least what they're most known for, so like The Chronicles of Narnia and The Lord of the Rings, there is a lot of morality takes place within the stories. And so then that of course is going to be informed by, have a belief system that's going to affect that. So how could it not be? There's probably a lot more to their friendship than just Tolkien that he shouldn't write about God stuff in his fantasy books. Andrea: Right. Well, and you know, there's like the question of why did their friendship sort of dissolve after being so close for so many years? There's a lot of conjecture about that. Andrea: During their prime days the Kolbitar Group, died down and they started a new group called The Inklings. I liked that. A nice play on words there. And they would meet up on Thursdays and I was like, oh, that's when we released our podcast. It's Thursdays, so it's a good day, good day for literary folks. They'd usually meet twice a week. Andrea: The more serious reading and critique usually took place in Lewis' rooms at Magdalene College on Thursday evenings. They'd meet up for lunch on Tuesdays and they’d meet up for a serious reading critique on Thursday evenings. Sounds quaint. Elizabeth: Charming. Magdalene College in Oxford? Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: Yeah. Cool. Andrea: And even though this is such a short graphic novel, it explains what the different colleges are within Oxford, and they're different crests, and that C.S. Lewis and Tolkien were part of actually different colleges. Andrea: So Tolkien was part of Exeter College and Lewis was Magdalene College and colleges within the university. Yeah. I thought that was interesting. Elizabeth: Having just read Katabasis by R.F. Kuang, the dark academia of Cambridge, in Katabasis. I've never been to Oxford or Cambridge, or know much about the British University system. I do know they have the same thing at Cambridge from having recently read that. Andrea: What did you think of Katabasis? Elizabeth: It is good. Four stars I'd say. It was very good. Andrea: That's on my to read very soon list. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: Have not read it yet, but I plan to. Elizabeth: Time Magazine called it one of the top 10 books of 2025, and has been on the Goodreads list best in 2025. Andrea: So speaking of other books we've read recently, Tolkien and Lewis reached celebrity status, as authors, and I find it fun to read celebrity memoirs, it's almost like, I don't wanna say it's like reading a gossip column, but there's always so much more that you don't know until somebody shares it in their memoir. Andrea: Right? Elizabeth: Totally! I read Jessica Simpson's memoir, which is called Open Book, and that is exactly what you're talking about. That is exactly what that book is, is like a gossip column. Elizabeth: If you're a millennial woman, we all remember when Jessica Simpson was like at the height of pop stardom. And Britney Spears and Christina Aguilar and N’sync. Then she was married to Nick Lachey, of 98 Degrees. Elizabeth: She actually dated John Mayer for a while, and then actually what was so fascinating about that book is that the person who comes out looking the worst is John Mayer. Elizabeth: I think I probably read it pretty quickly and it’s just a little fluffy, like reading a gossip column in book form. Elizabeth: What about you? Have you read any memoirs recently? Andrea: Well I just finished reading the Jennette McCurdy, memoir called, I'm Glad My Mom Died. And it is shocking to read. You just keep finding out how like there's so much more behind the curtain that you don't see. You think that people in Hollywood must lead these wonderful lives and you just find out how toxic and abusive her mom was and how she dealt with her eating disorders. Andrea: Even when she gets to the point where she has a stable relationship that takes a twist. I was just like shocked continually through the whole thing. But what's really impressive is she got out of it and was able to write this book. Andrea: At the same time, there is so much humor thrown in there. She was raised in the Mormon faith and so she's praying to God, “Please make me more patient, right now.” It helps to lighten the mood on a really serious topic throughout the whole book. Andrea: There's also another point where she talks about how she wrote a screenplay at a young age, and she was excited to show her mom the screenplay, and her mom does not handle it very well. But she says one of the things that she enjoyed about writing, was that she felt in control. Andrea: It was the first time she felt powerful. Writing this book is also a powerful therapeutic activity for her to take control of her life, and narrative, and her story. Yeah, I would highly recommend reading it. I gave it five stars and I'm actually reading it for a book club with friends and I'm really curious to hear what other people thought of it too. Andrea: And they’re turning it into a series on Apple TV+. Jennifer Aniston is set to star as Jennette MeCurdy’s mother and she’ll also be one of the executive producers along with McCurdy herself. I initially thought it was a movie, but it’s a 10 episode series. I think it’ll be interesting to see how they adapt her memoir into a series. Elizabeth: You’re definitely gonna watch it? Andrea: I don’t have Apple TV+ currently, so it might be one of the shows I binge watch on a three month trial of something to be completely 100% honest. Elizabeth: Oh, I also do the same thing. Elizabeth: It's interesting, you were saying, the idea of, writing your own story, being able to take control of your own narrative and the agency that you get by putting into words yourself. Elizabeth: I feel like another memoir that is similar to that is, Educated by Tara Westover. Have you read that? Andrea: Yes, I have! Elizabeth: Fantastic. Andrea: A little while ago. Elizabeth: Yeah, it's been a while since I've read it too. There’s another one, The Glass Castle by Jeanette Walls. Have you read that one? Andrea: No, I have not. What's that about? Elizabeth: That one also really good. Elizabeth: So I mean, it kind of, both of these books are, these women that grow up, in very poor rural parts of the country with very unstable childhoods. these memoirs are basically the story of their childhood. Elizabeth: So with Educated, she grows up in a fundamentalist Mormon family in southern Idaho does not really go to school, very much off the grid. I forget how many siblings she has, or had, 'cause I think there were lots of accidents and traumatic brain injuries. Her father has untreated bipolar disorder and she managed to find her way out of that and find success. Andrea: So she goes to college and that was a big step. Elizabeth: Yeah. Andrea: Her college admission was a turning point for her. Elizabeth: Yes, she goes on to get a PhD from Cambridge. Elizabeth: Same thing with, The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls. A very abusive, unstable childhood with her siblings. They move all over the country multiple times. They're not really in school, educational neglect, domestic abuse, addiction, adverse childhood experiences, similar to Educated. Elizabeth: This memoir sort of, I'm sure for probably both of them, as a way to sort of process of their childhood. I thought multiple times reading the Glass Castle, that it's amazing that Jeannette Walls did actually survive her childhood. There multiple times where like, she and her siblings came close to not surviving their childhood. Elizabeth: There's a lot of bad things out there. There's a lot of trauma, traumatic childhoods, adverse experiences. Does it become a trope in and of itself in writing your memoir about your traumatic abusive childhood? Andrea: Well, that makes me think, so I read Matthew Perry's memoir. Elizabeth: Was that published after he died? Andrea: It was published before he died, but I read it after he died. Andrea: Yeah. The Matthew Perry book. Elizabeth: Friends, Lovers, and The Big Terrible Thing. Andrea: Yes. Matthew Perry's book, Friends, Lovers, and The Big Terrible Thing. He does go through his own trauma. You don't choose your trauma, but I have a hard time connecting with his book. Andrea: Similarly with the Prince Harry book, Spare. I read it. That's kind of going to the celebrity memoir gossip columns. Andrea: I read Prince Harry's memoir Spare. Elizabeth: Yeah, it's interesting 'cause then, you know, there is something to be said for the inherent resilience within each person. Something that could be traumatic to one person may not be traumatic to somebody else. Andrea: Right. Elizabeth: It depends you know, your ability to manage the situation at the time, and then process through your perception of what happened in the future. Something very traumatic to one person, it’s probably traumatic to almost anyone, but just to different degrees. Elizabeth: And then at some point then you have to ask the question: how much of it is also that you just wanna sell a book and make some money? Andrea: That's where I wonder both Matthew Perry and Prince Harry, have so much personal wealth. I mean, that's one of the things that Matthew Perry talked about in his book was how much money he made and how it was like one of the top shows, ever and just how successful he was. Andrea: No amount of success seemed to solve their internal struggles. Andrea: In some ways it makes you appreciate your own life. It makes you realize that close relationships and purpose matter more than status. At the same time they’re a little harder for me to recommend to people because they don’t leave you with that same sense of hope. Andrea: I think I really liked Educated and I'm Glad My Mom Died because they overcame their trauma, and I could relate to their stories more. Not that I experienced that type of trauma, but I can imagine it happening more. Elizabeth: Yeah. Educated was a really good book and was The Glass Castle. I think the Glass Castle is actually on that New York Times Reader's Choice Hundred Best of the 21st century. Elizabeth: So many really good books off that list. It's number 89. Elizabeth: Educated by Tara Westover is number 6 The Glass Castle by Jeannette Walls is number 89. Andrea: Nice. Elizabeth: I just picked up a memoir from a little free library the other day that I have not read yet, 'cause I literally got it yesterday. Geraldine Brooks' memoir. Andrea: Ooh? Elizabeth: Called Memorial Days. Have you read anything by her? Andrea: I've read, People of the Book and Horse. Just those two, but they're both pretty good. Elizabeth: I've read People of the Book, The Secret Chord, and March. March by Geraldine Brooks won the Pulitzer Prize for fiction in 2006. Elizabeth: Yeah, that book is really good. Not a memoir, not sci-fi or fantasy, but is the story of Little Women, by Louisa May Alcott, from the husband's perspective. Andrea: Oh, interesting. Elizabeth: Yeah, it is a really good book. The Secret Chord was good, but not as good. The book was good, I thought. I also have Horse on my shelf, but I haven't read it yet yes, Memorial Days came out last year. It sounds like her husband died suddenly at the age of 60, and so it's has to do with her grieving process. Andrea: Oh, interesting. Elizabeth: I haven't read that one yet, but I picked that up from a little free library. It’s a good little free library find. Andrea: Nice. Andrea: Trevor Noah's memoir Born A Crime, which we both read, is actually celebrating it’s 10 year anniversary! Elizabeth: That one was really good. It's funny. His story about South Africa and apartheid growing up in apartheid, and being mixed race. Andrea: Well and I think that's another great example of how his humor is able to make a sad and depressing topic uplifting and enjoyable to read, because he did not have an easy childhood. Andrea: I didn't understand the title, Born a Crime, until I picked up that book, because I didn't understand the history of South Africa and apartheid. It's shocking he wasn't allowed to be seen with his mother, because he wasn't the same color of skin and he wasn't allowed to be seen with his father for the same reason. Andrea: Born A Crime doesn't continue past his childhood, so I thought, oh, maybe he will write another book about later in life. Andrea: But the book he wrote next was a children's novel. Elizabeth: Oh my God that’s adorable! Andrea: The novel was called Into the Uncut Grass, and that was published in 2024. And it says it’s, “A young child's journey into the world beyond the shadow of home. A magical landscape where he discovers the secrets of sharing connection and finding peace with the people we love.” Elizabeth: Like everything else about Trevor Noah, I'm sure it's delightful. Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: I find everything about Trevor Noah just so wonderful. I think he's so intelligent and funny. His way of describing things is such an outsider's perspective, which as you read the book, you realize kind of where that comes from because being a child of a mixed partnership, he wasn't really accepted in any of the communities in South Africa of his childhood. So he was always on the outside. Using that to inform his comedy I think is incredible. I think he does such a good job of making fun of the United States and things that we do in our culture. Elizabeth: But then also just hearing him talk sometimes when he does, you know, like international tours, and hearing some of the jokes that he'll do in different countries and how I'll make fun of other people like his accents and like, oh God, everything about him. Elizabeth: He's so handsome. If you're listening out there Trevor, I'm single. Andrea: He’s been asking on social media what questions people still have about his childhood. Do you have any burning questions for Trevor Noah Elizabeth? What would you ask? Elizabeth: I guess doesn't necessarily about his childhood as much, but like how many languages did he speak or does he speak? Andrea: Mhmm. Elizabeth: And I probably could end up asking a lot of questions about that in terms of growing up in Johannesburg and with the different communities just within where he lived, but then also where he, in terms of being. Not accepted by White South Africans, not accepted by Black South Africans. So then I remember him speaking in the book about how that meant he was like a part of none of these groups. So then he could find a way to be a part of all of these groups. And I could probably ask him a lot of questions about different languages that he would hear in his interactions with these different communities since Johannesburg. Andrea: So maybe it'd be something along the lines of did he have a favorite like phrase or were there different slang terms is that what you mean? Elizabeth: No, not even that. what specific questions I would ask. I'd have to start picking at it and then I'd be able to just follow it up with question after question. Elizabeth: Different experiences in his life where he thought that someone didn't realize that he could understand what they were saying. Andrea: Like overheard conversations? Elizabeth: Yeah. Yeah, some friends of mine speak many languages between them. They are both from a different country and their native languages are different from each other. So they speak each other's languages, but then their shared language is English. There are times when I've heard them speaking to each other where they pick the language that they speak to each other, and it depends upon the context. So if they wanna gossip about some people that they know that those people won't understand what language they're speaking. They'll speak in Croatian and that's his native language. Elizabeth: I don't usually get to hear him speak his native language, 'cause of course, me being a native English speaker, we also speak English together. and I don't know any Croatian, so I don't get to hear him speak Croatian very often. But it's fun to hear him speak Croatian slash Serbian, because as you learn other languages and spend time around other languages you realize that people speak and behave differently depending upon the language that you're speaking. Elizabeth: And you're gonna sound different too. Almost like a different version of you when you're speaking in a different language. But anyway, so it’s really fun. Elizabeth: But speaking of celebrities and time, all of this, all the way back Tolkien did you know that Christopher Lee, the actor who played Saruman, was the only actor in the Lord of the Rings to ever actually meet Tolkien himself? Andrea: No, I did not know that. Elizabeth: Yeah. Apparently was very brief, casual moment. And later on he was on a British talk show, Christopher Lee told the story and said that he was actually very starstruck at the time. Andrea: Wow! Elizabeth: Random little factoid about Tolkien. Christopher Lee met him. Andrea: Maybe he wrote him a fan letter and met up in person back in the day. Andrea: I think it was CS Lewis they were mentioning in The Mythmakers he was really good about responding to fan mail. A woman who ended up being his wife started as a fan. Andrea: An American writing to CS Lewis. She went to Cambridge to visit, like what the excuse was, but really she was coming to visit him. Andrea: But you're saying you're such a big fan of Trevor Noah… Elizabeth: What I’m taking from this is I can write a letter to Trevor Noah and he might respond. Andrea: I don't know. Elizabeth: Like I will meet Trevor Noah. Andrea: After you write him a letter! Elizabeth: Yep. Andrea: Invite him to our Lord of the Rings meetup at Emerald City Comic Con. Elizabeth: That's all I have to do. It's as easy as that. Andrea: Emerald City Comic Con is in Seattle, March 5th through the 8th, and if you're there on that Thursday, March 5th, we will be hosting a Lord of the Rings Fan Meetup. Hope you join us and we're hoping to get a lot of fun, cosplay, people to meet up and just share our love for these wonderful books and movies. Andrea: Hope we get to meet some of you at that event. Elizabeth: So come find us. Andrea: Thursday, March 5th at Emerald City Comic Con in Seattle. So you can buy a pass just for Thursday, but you can also buy a four day pass and there's a lot of really cool authors that'll be there. The big thing about Comic Con is not just books, it's also movies and video games, and there's just so much variety. Andrea: It's a really fun event, and I haven't been since they expanded to include the new convention center, the Summit, but the Summit building is gigantic. Elizabeth: That’s what the new building is called? It's the Summit? Andrea: Yes. Elizabeth: What's the original one called? Andrea: The Arch building. There's a big arch that spans over the street. Andrea: So, on the topic of memoirs and mapping your own adventure, we have a special promo code for the Lord of Maps stamps. These cute stamps give an authentic feel to creating your own fantasy or real life inspired maps. Andrea: Use code GALAXIES for 10% off your order at lordofmaps.com. Elizabeth: Unfortunately, that concludes this week's episode. We've reached the end of another cosmic journey on Galaxies and Goddesses. Andrea: Don’t worry, the adventure never really ends. There are always more stories to explore and let's be honest, more bookish tangents for us to go on. Elizabeth: If you loved today's episode, subscribe, leave a review and share the magic. Andrea: Stay tuned for our next episode where we'll be chatting about the second book in the Lord of the Rings trilogy, The Two Towers by J.R.R. Tolkien. Elizabeth: And in the meantime, keep your mind fueled by the magic of stories. Andrea: And never stop chasing the world waiting for you between the pages. Thanks everyone!