Latest / The Leader in You / 105. Why Feeling Seen Changes Everything: Aric Bostick on Attachment, Trust, and Resilience at Work

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105. Why Feeling Seen Changes Everything: Aric Bostick on Attachment, Trust, and Resilience at Work · The Leader in You

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_03: Experience work interactions in a different and refreshing light.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: This is the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders, taking care of the teams you care about.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: We bring the signs of attachment and emotional connection with insight from the last 20 years to share how you can overcome conflict issues at work and build strong team relationships as well as the connected culture.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone and welcome back to the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be here today.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Paulina, and I co-host this amazing podcast with the wonderful Dr.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Lola Gershfeld, who to my pleasure gets to also be my mother, is also my mother.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, Dr.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Lola, welcome back to your amazing podcast.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, hello, Paulina.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so happy to be here with you and with our special guest.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm very happy to be with all of our uh listeners.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for being here with us.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yay, so we have a very special guest today.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: We mentioned that Eric was going to be guest on our podcast last week when we had Dr.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Jamie Goff.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're excited to welcome you, Eric.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Leader in You podcast.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much, Paulina and Dr.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_04: Gershfield.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's such a pleasure, Dr.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_04: Lola.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_04: I'm trying to get you to, I have such uh admiration and respect for her and her work.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_04: And of course, I had the privilege of listening in to your podcast with Dr.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_04: Goff last uh week.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_04: It's so good.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm such a big fan of hers as well.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_04: So truly an honor to get to be here today.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for coming.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we are going to talk about some things today.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Before we begin, we have some questions for you, Eric.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're really excited to kind of dive into your background, uh, you know, your attachment expertise, and it goes so beautifully with what Dr.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Lola does.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so first tell us a little bit about you.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did you get into this field?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And where did you get, where did you study, and what do you do?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, Paulina.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_04: Well, um, so I'm a former school teacher.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_04: I went to uh college to be a coach and a teacher after having a teacher make a big difference in my life.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm uh insecurely attached to developmental trauma, you know, young person who uh, you know, I score six on the adverse child experience test.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_04: If you know what that means, that means I'm about seven times more likely, it's likely to be an alcoholic like my father was, and ten times more likely to ingest street drugs like he did, or 12 times more likely to attempt suicide, like my mother uh threatened to do throughout my childhood.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so, but for the grace of uh the attachment of uh a teacher and a counselor and a coach, um, I became a first-generation college student, first of my family to go to college and said, I want to be a coach and a teacher, and maybe I can save lives like you know, the couple that did for me.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_04: And um, what I did know at the time that is that I was really being driven to serve not only because someone made a difference in my life, but also the unhealed part of me that wants to, you know, give what he didn't get.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so my first year teaching and coaching still being uh pretty insecure.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I had a uh the coach I worked for had uh was pretty jealous of the relationships I was building with coach teach the students and threatened to fire me after day one because he said all the kids seem to like you more than me, and I can't have that.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_04: And it was the worst year of my life because all I want to do was please this person and make a difference.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I was literally, you know, uh out of anxiety, just like I was when I was a child, I was vomiting before school.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_04: It was really traumatic.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and so luckily, uh a mentor um encouraged me to leave that job and uh after the end of the school year and to join a different school.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_04: And there I had leaders there, uh, the principal, assistant principals.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_04: I got so much love and encouragement and care that I began to thrive as a teacher and um created after-school program to help more students, and it was called the Goal Setters Club.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I really have to give a shout-out to my father who did recover from alcoholism and died with almost 40 years of sobriety, um, and got me into therapy.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_04: And I was listening to Zig Ziggler as a ninth grader, who's like the guy motivation, you know, cassette tapes and Tony.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm a ninth grader read and see at the top, you know.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_04: And um anyway, and as a high school teacher, listening to Tony Robbins, and I spent uh nearly half of my salary going to a Tony Robbins seminar and led to uh going to another one and another one, and and and decided to teach what Tony was teaching in the classroom.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_04: And my my afterschool club became the biggest club on campus.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_04: We got featured on television over seven times, and that launched my speaking career 25 years ago to you know motivate students and teachers uh across the country, and so uh over half a million students and teachers and educators and school leaders and even corporate over the last you know 15, 18 years as well.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_04: But I was still had some of this insecurity, and uh eight and a half years ago, I was a burnt-out motivational speaker.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I I joke on stage that there's not a big demand for depressed motivational speakers, but I there really was, but they just didn't know how how I felt offstage.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_04: I was giving from an empty cup and I was walking to talk offstage with the people I love and care about most.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_04: And so I reached out to uh a coach of mine that I met at a meditation retreat, and she suggested this attachment uh expert to coach me in some ways, and it opened my eyes.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't know what attachment was, even though I was immersed in all kind of self-help and self-approvement and been in therapy my nearly since I was 13 years old.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_04: And it was like taking the red pill of the matrix, all of a sudden the whole world looked different, and I saw myself different, and I was able to see my partner different, my team different.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_04: I started having compassion for myself, and I took a step back from teaching, I mean, from speaking, and um I just literally immersed myself in every book on attachment that my coach assigned to me.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_04: I literally have a thousand slides on the power of showing up, uh, just on this.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_04: But I did I did Diane Pohl Heller, Power of Attachment, all of three or four of her online courses.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I read Attachment Across the Life course, and then there's a book I never even heard of, Attachment Theory in a Teacher-Student Relationship.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, then there's Workplace Attachment that many of your listeners may be uh familiar with, you know, Victoria Grady.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but you know, I just all of a sudden said this is what I should be teaching to help all those insecure teachers and to help better understand their insecure students.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I started helping, you know, the parents, and then of course the principals and the superintendents, and then then I started getting my corporate gigs of you know, again, do an HR.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I just did the Austin HR conference.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_04: And there is just such a hunger for what Dr.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_04: Lola, Dr.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_04: Goff, and and I are trying to, I feel like, pioneer out there, which is here in the West.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: Attachment science is to me uh one of the missing pieces in building trust and resilience and and true um retention and recruitment for the next generation of workers or you know, future teachers, or to be an amazing parent.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like I want my mission is that we should all be speaking in in attachment terms.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_04: This isn't a uh a jerk kid, this is an anxious or avoidant or disorganized child.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_04: This isn't a uh a disgruntled employee who's lazy or or uh you know extreme.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_04: They might be suffering from insecure attachment, and my security can become their security.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_04: And so uh today, now over the last five years, I've spoken to uh about 40,000 educators and um corporate leaders about attachment.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_04: And in my survey, the first question we ask is before today, had you heard about attachment?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_04: And less and less than 10% say yes.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I did 500 school counselors at the fifth largest school district in the country.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: School counselors, and only 40, only 46 said they'd heard of attachment.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: So uh my mission is Dr.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_04: Lola's mission, is Dr.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_04: Goff's mission, and all those out there that are talking about attachment, Dr.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_04: Siegel, who's my idol, you know.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, the the people that I really look up to and respect, Dr.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_04: uh, you know, Victoria Grady, of course, most importantly, I love you know Dr.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_04: Daniel Heller.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_04: These people have saved my life.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like they saved my work.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_04: And uh my now therapist is the head of supervision and training, Dr.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_04: Victoria Settle at the Bulby Center in the UK, um, who has become my secure base, my safe haven, as along with my my partner Jenny, which Dr.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: Goff mentioned so well in your last uh podcast that we gotta heal through relationships, as Stan Todkins says.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I finally am able to let people in to show me the way and uh humbly follow the lead and know that I don't know it all, and um, and I can learn a lot from everybody else.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_04: And that to me is uh a little step forward in earning my own security.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_04: That was a long time.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I had to clap.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So sorry.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to roll.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, actually, I'm so grateful.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Please don't apologize.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: We we are so grateful for you to share that.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I want to just first congratulate you because to go through such a difficult childhood and to take that test.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I have never done that test, but I know that I don't um I had my difficulties in my childhood, yes, but it's like to have that disposition to go into drugs, into alcohol, to be like so close to that and be able to turn, you know, to a different light.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a big deal.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's such a big deal.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I have teenagers, I have five kids.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if Dr.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Lilla told you.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so four of them are teenagers, um, 13, 15, 17, and 19.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so, and I have taught them this process, the attachment process for like the last eight years or so.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so interesting and unique to see when they're struggling, you know, and they get the opportunity to share their struggles in the process that makes them feel heard, understood, validated, seen.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then they can also respond to their impact on other people, specifically their siblings or me, that changes their entire perspective on the situation and on their life.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's so funny because one of one session I had, and I'll make this quick and I'll turn it to Dr.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Lola after my um my middle son, who's 15 now, we were really struggling in a session.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I said to him, you know, when we are struggling, we get closer to drugs and alcohol, and we get closer to that because we have so much pain.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: And in society, that is the coping mechanism, you know, that is the mechanism people go to to process their pain because they don't have any other tools, right?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of shuts it down and pushes it down and makes us avoid, become that avoidant person in that situation.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: And when we go to these sessions and are able to really process and create space and do I use specifically Dr.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Lola's EMC process, it is it pushes us away from that and allows our heart to be open and gets us closer to actually our heart and the ability for us to be ourselves.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that you have shared part of your story and how you got here.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you're at the schools really making such a big impact because I see all the kids that I interact with.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I love children.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: So when I see the children interact with their friends, and then I meet their friends and I see their struggles and how deep those struggles are, and how they are turning those struggles into ineffective ways of coping, it's so heartbreaking.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: So the fact that you have such a big presence in the school system and what you're doing is really commendable.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, congratulations to what you're doing.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_04: Well, let me tell you, I really appreciate the kind words, but what you're doing for your son, what is your 15-year-old's name, if you don't mind?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: His name is Noah.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: So, Noah, I mean, I'm literally so envious, just knowing like you're as a secure base, but giving him a language for how to share his feelings and modeling how to talk about those things.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: And here's how I feel, and being able to open himself up to how you might feel.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm just like literally seeing those neural pathways of his go, man, I'm so lucky to have secure attachment because it's gonna last a lifetime.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_04: His future partner is that he'll he'll model it after.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_04: Well, if I can't talk like this, like I did with mom, then this is probably not gonna work.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, like, I mean, you set this is what I tell all the parents I talk to.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you set your child up for a lifetime of future success, emotionally, relationally.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_04: If I had, I tell people all the time, if I had a choice between winning the lottery or having secure parents, I would pick secure parents every time.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: Because you you have it, yes, you won the lottery because you now navigate this extremely difficult human experience because you have been had some sort of modeling to help you self-regulate, understand the feelings of others, so you won't be the you know self-centered, narcissistic person that is just still trying to get their needs met as an adult because they didn't get a meeting at the child.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what a gift! And I did ask Dr.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: Lola yesterday when we were kind of preparing for this.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: I said, Dr.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_04: Lola, what do you do when you're you know, with your family and grandkids, and and the the tension gets high?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_04: And she goes, I just tell them, hey guys, uh, we're in a negative cycle here.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_04: And and and and and the and the kids go, okay, and they calm down, they start to talk.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I thought, what a gift! Can you imagine being able to have that kind of vocabulary in your home?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_04: Hey guys, I think we're in a negative cycle.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, because I'm I'm thinking of like you know, the old TV shows of when everybody just shut up and we just storm and slam doors.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_04: And it says, like, I wish there was literally a like a Hallmark B channel, you know, like I love Hallmark because we're gonna make it work out.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna make it, Eric! But like a new channel where all we get modeled is oh, that's what security looks like at home at home and then relationships and with show, you know, when we have to agree.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, Eric, you gotta connect with me on social media because I have a family channel, and part of the reason why we have about 300,000, 320,000 followers, and part of the reason why we went viral is for the way my kids talk to each other and the way my kids talk to me.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you're gonna love it because a lot of people like, oh my god, it's so wholesome! Like, how how do we raise kids like this?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: How do we, you know, how do we get this environment?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is so amazing.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I agree, I think that creating a reality, we have our channel is very much like reality TV because it's like very authentic, real.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And we do some like fun, silly things, but um, yeah, you're gonna love that.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I have a I have a parenting guide that I wrote actually that aligns, thanks to Dr.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Lola, that aligns with her.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: I have to send it to you.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's on Amazon, available on Amazon, but you would love it because I it's for parents specifically, but it talks about how to create that secure attachment in your home and then how to use the process to have the connecting conversations.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, that's so beautiful!
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Dr.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_04: Lola, we're gonna new follower and Dr.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_04: Lola.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_04: Well done.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, thank you.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: I have to give a lot of credit to Paulina because she was very relentless of uh staying on top of that process and and integrating.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I I all you know, I always think about leaders and teams because they are the key attachment figures, the leaders.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: And they have to be persistent and consistent and to integrate this process into their teams.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was just talking to a leader, and uh, we did some training um with his team, and they went through the EMC masterclass.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I keep saying, like, you guys need to practice, you got to practice.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it seems like after a couple of uh practice sessions that we had as a team, it feels like there's calmness in the team, but I said you still have to practice because the moment when the stress comes in, that practice is not enough to securely connect them so they can rely on each other.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think uh to Paulina's credit, I have to give her a lot of credit.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: She was on top of the kids every single day, you know.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna do another session.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: You talk to me and tell me what's happening.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: That's that's the way the brain works, you know.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_04: And and I I really like what you said too about the you know, you're working with the teams and the leaders about how we got to practice and what it kind of to you know segue from the wonderful conversation uh you know with Paulina about parents is a lot of leaders don't like when I say this, but I say you are the parents of your subordinates.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_04: So the principal, I say you're the parents of your teachers, superintendent, you're the parents of your principals.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: And if the at the top, if dad or mom is secure and they're or then all of a sudden this the kids are gonna be more secure and they follow your role modeling, and then that's why we gotta all be so disciplined to walk the talk, to live the message, and to keep pushing.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_04: Even when I was a classroom teacher, one of the things I did in the classroom was every single class period, I had the kids stand up and we clapped and we did affirmations.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_04: I did these Tony Robbins affirmations, and then they had to high-five each other, and then and and like sometimes the kids didn't want to stand up, they didn't want to clap.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I go, I would say, um, this is not a suggestion.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_04: This is what we're doing.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_04: And it got it, it and I have had students email me in their their down their you know, 40s, 30s, 40s, I'm 51 years old, and um say, when I have a bad day, I can still hear us doing our affirmations and and I and I get myself fired up, you know.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_04: But but again, it's all that it's that constant wiring all the time.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: So good on you.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: And again, I love you know, again, I'm such a fan of Dr.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_04: Lola's work, and I'm learning more as we go.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna be taking her course soon, uh, and we're gonna get to see her in action, see you guys in action.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm super duper excited about watching how you guys have uh help your audiences and leaders that you work with get, you know, be immersed in it because just like your children, the more they do it, we know the more they're gonna be able to do it when it when it's hard, when it counts and under stress.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_04: We we default to our our original attachment position under stress.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_04: So it's easy to be the it's easy to be the calm, cool person when everything's good, you know.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, it's it's when the stuff hits the fan is when we gotta go, okay, here we go.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I said that to my daughter, my 10-year-old, the other 11, she's almost 11, the other night, yesterday, when I was like, this kind of conversation.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I pulled out my form, like we have the journal here.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the form right here, and I told her this conversation is not an option.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: The only thing that I'm ever gonna force you to do.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to go to dance class.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: You don't, I don't even make her do her homework because I don't uh believe in homework.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think they should be doing the EMC form every single night for homework.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was all I'm ever gonna force you to do, and that's it.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's it, and you're gonna thank me when you're married.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: I literally, as you were saying that, I could literally visualize her, you know, 20 years from now, or wherever going, uh, her husband and her in the car saying, uh, this is not an option.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm pulling out the form right now.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_04: And we're gonna pulling over here at the gas station.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna get we're gonna get this sorted before we get to.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, but what a gift! You know, I get to see it in in their vows, you know.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_04: I I promise to do my you know my uh EMC form whenever he has to in the middle of a workshop.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway, no, that that's I really um it is such great work.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_04: And then like again, this is my mission, and I I know that this is what Dr.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_04: Lola's passionate about.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_04: I know Dr.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_04: Goff is why I'm just such a when I got connected with her, I was so excited.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: This is not common language.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: We were just talking about that, Dr.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: and Lola and I, how it's like so foreign, you know.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe it's something we were talking about.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: How can we make this more accessible for people to be like in a society where 99.9% of people don't speak this language, you know, they use words that's fighting and they're shaming, criticizing, judging, and blaming.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, how do we shift the language to this kind of process?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and that's my mission.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_04: That's why I I want to get it into pre-service education in college, anybody that's gonna be a future educator.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_04: But even if you're getting an MBA, if you're gonna be in the health industry, if you're gonna be in management, I mean, why aren't we dropping off our kids at college and saying, uh, help this young person be secure to go out into the world?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_04: And so in the middle of all these courses, they should be having a course on attachment, their attachment styles, doing a deep, deep dive on their personal history, learning how to have difficult conversations, doing the EMC form.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_04: Can you imagine the societal difference if we had everyone becoming out of college more secure or coming out of vocational or even high school?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what about why are they requiring sex ed and not requiring emotional connection?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Connection work.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: No doubt.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: Attachment work.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Where's the attachment education?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: A hundred percent.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_04: Can you imagine little kids in a recess saying, you know what?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: You're not making me feel very sane right now.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_04: You know, can I be can I be included in this game?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: You know?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's funny because I've had this conversation with my kids before because they look at me and they're like, Mom, like I have three boys.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: My oldest is 19, that's a boy, and then a 15 and a 13-year-old.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And every single one of them where I've had these conversations with difficult situations that they've had at school with their friends or other kids.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: I tell them, like, why don't you tell them?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like it makes sense.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's difficult for you.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Mom, they're gonna think I'm gay, or they're going to, you know, they're going to make fun of me for it, or they're gonna want to fight, you know, because it's so not, it's not normalized yet.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people just don't see the power, not yet.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: They will, and maybe our new TV show is going to make that kind of impact.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, yes, attachment 101, whatever we want to call this, the the the the new Waltons or whatever it is, the new Cosby show, whatever it's about security.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, but you know what could make this cool?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: Five, you know, really cool students like yours, you know, talking about this because our child, um, so Jenny, my partner, 14 and a half years, when her her daughter was three when we met, she's now 17.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: She's not had a good school experience, you know, um, from her teachers and students.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_04: She, without wanting to, has been exposed to all this attachment stuff.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_04: She got to where she didn't want to watch TV with us because we'd be watching TV and go, Well my gosh, that's anxious.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_04: That's a oh my god, I'm gonna say just watch the show anyway.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's what my kids say.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so anyway, but she wants to be a social worker, she wants to help children like her, who you know she had a father who wasn't hasn't been uh a positive partner of her life.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_04: But at the end of the day, when she hears me talk about attachment in my you know keynotes and workshops, she says, our kids, our student, my my friends need to know this.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_04: And so the reason why I sent you that one video, I worked with a uh Utah Valley University's college uh campus ambassadors for a year, you know, for two semesters.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_04: And it it blew their mind.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_04: One young man filled up his whole wall in his dorm of the notes from what I was sharing, you know, and you caught you saw on the uh the testimonials, and then we did this for a high school group at a future educator conference, and kids were like in tears, a because they've realized that the students that they are struggling to help, that's what's really going on, and they've been kind of not as kind as they wish they would have been.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you know.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_04: So I think children, to your point, are ready way sooner to hear about their technology, how they can maybe be more compassionate to others, but maybe over how to become more secure, you know.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_04: I think the hard part for me is knowing they're gonna go home and say, Hey, mom, I'm anxious because of you, you know, or but how do we have a a dyadic conversation between parent and child?
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_04: Here's how we work together.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_04: Because I have made this all the mistakes with Emma.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we're not as close as I'd like to be because of my inconsistency and my insecurity, and she knows I'm working hard at it, but we just have to keep repairing and repairing and repairing.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_04: But at least we have a common language, you know.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, I wanna I I love that we're talking.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: I would like to do so many things with you now.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can have all kinds of conversations and things about parenting, and I absolutely love that.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, but we are on a leadership podcast, and we are we are, but I think yeah, let's we're gonna rope it in back to leadership in the workplace.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing is that I love that we did start off with that is because everyone who works, most people, they are in a family dynamic, whether they have parents or they have children or they have siblings or you know, and we go to work and work most of our life.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yes, the people that we work with become our family, you know, and then we have those same struggles.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: So, what's beautiful for those of you who are listening or watching us, you can take this process and create closely connected relationships with everyone in your life.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Dr.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: Lola, I'm gonna give you the floor.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Share with us uh after listening to Eric and I go at it, what's your what's your take on this?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: And how do you I I think that's correct, Palinchka.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Palina, that we we definitely uh we definitely can use this process in all of our relationship because this applies universally.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I've worked with uh I just graduated two EMC certified trainers in Kenya.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: In Kenya, okay, and they worked so hard because they say that this particular process connects with them very closely to Christian um values that they hold.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: And their organization has 2,000 employees, they they have a lot of schools and and clinics uh offered.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_03: And they said that we love this because we can create a peaceful way for people to address challenges on their teams, and that's what we want.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: We want managers to be feeling empowered and understanding what's going on when people come complain or criticize each other or blame.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: They can look at the problem from an attachment perspective and say, wait a second, this person is struggling, they are disconnected, and now I know how to reconnect them.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_03: Instead of telling them, let me write you up.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: Now you have to have a coach, now you have to change your behavior.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: These are all ineffective.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm uh excited and I'm with you guys.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm with you to say we need to teach everyone this language.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, you know, and to your great point, when you and I were preparing for this, you talked about what are some of the things that I teach, and and really what you're doing is so powerful.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_04: The M EMC, you know, uh focused way of teaching is my mission is hey, how can we just start taking a like like these glasses, a lens of attachment into every conversation and into the workplace?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_04: And so when I teach my fire-up to show up framework, you know, the F is what fuels your fire, what is your why, which can you know, be our anchor.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_04: And for me, that's helping as many people in that audience uh understand that their security matters, that their security is contagious, and that, you know, if they're not secure, do everything they can to become secure.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_04: And then, because there's an Erica, Erica in every student audience or adult audience that I work with, and then to be intentional about the relationship piece, and that's where I teach the four attachment styles of secure, anxious, avoidant, disorganized, how we get wired that way, how we get internal working models that become our lens, which we see the world, but how we as secure leaders can show up in such a way that helps them feel safe, seen, and supported, just as a lot of what Dr.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_04: Siegel teaches in power showing up, safe, seen, and soothed.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_04: And we do that with having attachment practices that we walk into work with every day.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_04: So, even for our call, I made my show up plan for Paulina and Dr.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_04: Gershville, which is okay, I'm gonna be rested.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I got a good night's sleep.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_04: So priming myself the night before to show up to you for you because a tired parent doesn't usually make for a patient parent, right?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_04: A tired, you know, leader doesn't usually make for the most patient leader.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_04: And so rested, and then before our call, I went on, uh even though I did some work this morning, went on a walk, did meditation.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_04: There's so many things I did to go, okay.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm ready.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_04: And then about you, which is again back to what we hope a good parent does.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_04: I delight in your presence.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_04: Paulina, Lola, oh my gosh, it's so good to see you, and and really lift that up with the you know, the eyebrows, the of the all those little small micro moments make someone feel more safe.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_04: And then seen, gosh, I've read about you, I've seen the great work you're doing.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you guys made me feel so seen, and I really appreciated that.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_04: And then supported, you know.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_04: So compliment, encourage, what can I say that helps others feel lift it up and want to come closer?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_04: And then if we have to have a difficult conversation, then we can do that.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_04: And so, last but not least, I try to dress in such a way that that says, Hey, I'm I'm really all in, you know, and so I know that seems silly in the workplace these days because everybody's gotten very relaxed, and I'm not against, you know, again, comfortable attire.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_04: But I think as a leader, you should consider how your presence is emotionally, you know, uh physically focused, present.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_04: But then, hey, I want to look like uh I really take this serious, you know.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_04: And so we don't talk a lot about that anymore.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_04: It's almost taboo.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_04: I can't even, I barely say anything when I talk to schools because everybody's wearing t-shirts and jeans, you know.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm okay with I get it, but I will say it's amazing how I dress up on airplanes and everybody thinks I'm the most important person in the room, you know, or they really treat me different.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_04: It's and and it's and it's people say, uh, somebody was sitting next to me, uh, why are you dressed up?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I say, company policy.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it's and Sean Daffy didn't Sean Daffy, uh, the Secretary of Transportation encourage people to dress up and that's a new thing.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_04: I he did, and and I I know that I think differently, I speak differently, I carry myself differently, you know.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_04: And again, I I just went on vacation, I dressed casually on the plane.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_04: We we were, you know, I'm not a totally insane, you know, but I will say that um as a leader, you know, having a set of habits, and one of mine is also being um attachment informed digitally.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_04: So if I send you a text or an email, you know, it's still dear and your name and thank you and please and I appreciate you, and exclamation point and this thought behind it, you know.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes people just and we wonder why I don't feel seen, you know.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_04: And so when I'm talking to audience, I say, you know, schedule connection time, take that connection really serious, and then come to it in a really uh skilled way of learning how to listen in an attuned way.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_04: In uh the book, You're not listening, which was suggested to me.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, I learned that my anxious attachment really hurt my listening skills.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_04: So I've had to learn how to listen to the end, let you finish, and then reflect back what you said before I talk about me, which I couldn't do as an anxious person, you know.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_04: And so at least I have this skill to do a better job.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so anyway, those are just a few things.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_04: And my last part is how to regulate your emotions when you get anxious with the deep breathing, the taking a step back, resting, and then having an energy plan.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_04: So, what am I doing all day long to keep my energy up so that I can show up for the people I care about?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I think when a parent takes good care of themselves and a leader takes good care of themselves, then we model for those that we lead how to take care of themselves too.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's so beautifully said.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing all of that.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Eric, do you know the uh pursuer withdrawer?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know the definition of that?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_04: I do learning that from Dr.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_04: Lola, I was just more of an anxious avoidant, you know, which is but the that those new terms have really helped me a lot.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm so excited to get to share the stage with her and Dr.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: Goff and see this, to see this activity in action.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, I have been that pursuer, and as a disorganized attached person, I've been that withdrawal.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_04: And gosh, just the awareness alone can help you be different.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, and it just what you were saying just kind of made me think about that.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of which, you are gonna be speaking on stage with Dr.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Jamie and Dr.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Lola at the ATD org Dev Conference.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: And for those of you who are listening, a reminder that we're going to be there.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's Indianapolis, Indiana.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is that correct, mom?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's that's at the end of this month.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us, Eric, what is one practice that you hope people will walk away with that they're like, oh my gosh, Eric taught me.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say one thing that you would want people to?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: You did share like the steps that you take to really show up, fire up and show up.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely love that.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is something like someone?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I also want to add when I was listening to you speak, um, I I really can relate to everything that you're saying, how you present yourself, how you dress, like all of those things are very important.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think that people get stuck because they don't feel seen and heard and validated, right?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: In their experience.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: So then there, it's difficult for them to show up and be show up in that way, right?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: We can't necessarily show up when we don't feel seen, heard, validated, understood.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's actually one of the very first steps in the EMC process is bringing doing the slow motion camera and bringing to light what's happening within you.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I had this conversation with my team too.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like we get to look at ourselves first.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: How are we responding?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: What is happening with us?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: What are our automatic protective thoughts and behaviors?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: What is our attachment style?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: How do we show up in a conflict?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: That way we can fulfill all those.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: We can dress accordingly, we can, you know, feel good, we can have energy, we can be aware of what's happening physically for us and emotionally before we show up.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us, tell us, share with us one practice that you would suggest give to people that are listening.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_04: That is a great question.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_04: And thanks for sharing with me what you would do with your team.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, what a gift for them, for you guys to have this way of being and kind of transmit your secure attachment, you know, down with them.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_04: And that's why this is so exciting to me.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_04: Once you learn about this, that's why I get like I you know, with Sue Johnson used to say in Hold Me Tight.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_04: I've seen a great interview with her and Greg McEwen, who wrote Essentialism.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, why isn't this on the front of the New York Times?
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_04: Like, hey, we figured out how to do relationships.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is amazing.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Seriously.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like I just want to shout from rooftops.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_04: That's why I'm so grateful to get um teamed up with more people in the field because it's gonna take a uh all of us.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I I will say to your point, I guess there's two things.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_04: One is what I'm learning from my you know, uh therapist and you know, in conversation as I continue to try to earn my security, is I've got to reparent myself so that I can become more secure.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_04: I I can't rely just on Jenny and just on my therapist and hope people are gonna be smiling and excited when I see them on Zoom or respond to my emails in such a way that makes me feel seen.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_04: Like I can't control anyone else, but at 51 years old, I can start to love Eric.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_04: And literally from the the time I woke up this morning, and this is gonna sound silly, but I just began to talk to myself as if this well with a parent I wish I'd had.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_04: So I love you so much, Eric.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_04: Gosh, I believe in you.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_04: You're gonna you're you're gonna do great today.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I'm really excited for you.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_04: Boy, they're they're they're blessed to have you today.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_04: You know, what a gift you're gonna be.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_04: And so it just it just becomes this mantra.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_04: And and then the thing that I really try to get across to all my audiences, especially the leaders, and uh we actually show the still face experiment video um on our thing, is that your smile can change the entire climate of any staff meeting, any hallway, any room, from the when you're in that parking lot and you pull up to the office.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_04: If you're one of the people that have to actually go into office, at that point, notify your face.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm here, you know, and then if you can put a smile on your face as you walk into meetings, as someone enters your room.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_04: So many people have they call it, I know people like our RBF, but I call it resting.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_04: I I actually call it, you know, the resting B face, right?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_04: But I actually call it, I call it resting busy face.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_04: You're busy, yeah, you're busy, yeah.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_04: You're you're not upset and you're not a jerk or with a B word, you're just busy and you forget that your busyness gives the other people impression that you're not to your great words on Dr.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_04: Goffset, you're not accessible, yeah.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you're you're not engaged, you know.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_04: You you really I don't have time for this.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_04: But if I can say, Hey, I'd love to speak with you.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_04: Could you just give me one minute?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna finish this, and then you're gonna have my undivided attention.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_04: As Dr.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_04: Lola was talking each time.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_04: I would start like this, but then I'm like, then I just notify my face.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_04: Oh and and you know, it just makes one someone want to talk more, you know, they just want to share more.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_04: And so I literally had one of my um audience members from the Austin HR conference post on her LinkedIn that my keynote really made her feel seen.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_04: She said I was one of 400 people, but I felt so seen.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then she said I didn't even like Eric at first, you know, he was jumping around and he's so energetic.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_04: But he sucked me in, right?
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_04: He sucked me in and he made me feel seen because he understood, you know, my you know, our story, this the story we all seem to have to work through.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_04: But his practice of notifying your face to smile, she wrote a LinkedIn that she's been practicing for uh uh this is two weeks ago for a week, and then writing the thank you notes, but bringing that smile to her staff room and being a resource of security, just like I'm here and and I'm available, has just it made the best week.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_04: She noticed that a difference in her team.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_04: So if I left leave anybody, which was such so small, it seemed like such a big deal.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, just smile, but really try to bring that that hey, just like a good mom and dad does to their baby, you're mine, I'm here.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it does get all over you.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_04: And and Lola, you know, you were so blessed.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_04: Lola has a literally a million-dollar smile.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_04: She's always smiling.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_04: She does, she makes you feel amazing.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_04: She does.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: You know, when I listen, when I listen to your podcast with Dr.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_04: Goff, Paulina, I just felt I like I cannot wait to meet Paulina.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_04: She, you were so funny and you laughed and bubbly.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, I mean, how can you not want to have fun?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_04: But so you're bringing you're bringing the joy, you know, and so again, I think that transmits to security or safety or being seen.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, it may sound silly if you walk away from going to the the uh you know org conference, hey, they taught me to smile.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_04: It would still be transformative, you know, and that's something I'm gonna be trying to transmit in my practices that I'm gonna be teaching.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I wanna I want to just kind of tune into what you said about like talking to your younger self, because when I learned the process, um, well, one, I don't know if you know this, but my mom and I had actually a very difficult relationship when I was a child.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: And there was like a 10-year period where we didn't really have a relationship.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so just recently, the last 10 years, when my youngest daughter was born, we started to do therapy together.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: We did the EFT, the attachment-based therapy based on Dr.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Sue Johnson, and spent four or five years or right, uh, doing therapy, intensive sessions to repair and heal from a lot of childhood injuries and injuries my mom experienced as well.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know I wasn't like the best, the best.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_03: But we're in the negative cycle, Balim.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's nobody's fault.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so we were really stuck.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: So so that transformational help at the time when I was doing the sessions with my mom, I was also doing sessions with my children.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it was so incredible to play both roles.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I played the role as the child in the relationship, and then I turned around and took what I experienced with that session and played the role as a parent with the session with my children.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I've never talked about this really on social media or anything, but it was so impactful because there were so many things that I thought that I had made stories around based on my own perceived messages, right?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: From what was being delivered to me, but then got so much clarity that was so uh enlightening, you know.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I have always been this very bubbly person, but the bubbly person inside me was very, I don't want to say fake, but it was like I just put on a smile to pretend like everything was fine.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_01: But now it's like so it's so easily accessible because it's just who I am genuinely.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: And now I don't have all these blocks that are stopping me from putting the camera on and recording or communicating what my feelings are, my fears, or what my needs are, or really being very direct in my delivery of the message, you know, and being able to clarify with my children, with my team, with people in my life what is happening with me.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that is such a powerful skill that I've never experienced, aside from my mother and my my kids and my father, I've never experienced that in anyone else that I have met.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of people that I have not met yet, including you that I see you have that skill as well.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's just so unique, you know, and to be able to do that allows us to grow exponentially into being our best self in this world.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: And when we can be our best self, then we're able to share our talents and our gifts with the world.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think ultimately the EMC process is guiding us to that.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know, I know you have held up many different books, and I was just gonna grab the EMC book that I have, but the EMC book you're not holding up.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: I know, every copy.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_04: Listen, I haven't, you know what?
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_04: I'm about to Start the training, and um, I've just been reading about her.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_04: And again, you know, the tough thing is I I used COVID to read all these books, okay.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I read and read and read.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_04: And then, and so now, but I just do my morning reading and I'm I'm immersed in Dr.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_04: Goff's book, you know, and I can't wait to read Dr.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_04: Louis.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I apologize.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_04: It wasn't, I was I was literally almost like, you know, have you ever heard these stories that people say, I pretend that I have uh, you know, Abraham Lincoln and Obama and all these people around me to kind of bully me.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_04: So like these are my you know, strength, you know, just I have them, you know, not to just to show off, hey, I've read a bunch of books, but like the but these are where like all of a sudden they help my mind open.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_04: And and that's why, you know, I I booked my flight today, my hotel to the the investment I'm gonna be making to spend time with you guys in person.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I'm looking at it just more of my own uh college education on attachment.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_04: And uh so I believe me, I can't wait to the next podcast I'm on.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, you have to bring me back and I say, it was this book that finally got me over the edge.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_04: I earned my security because of this.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_04: But but again, again, you guys are doing such great work.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I mean it's it's really, really cool.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_04: And thanks for sharing that you know, vulnerable between you guys because I know it's gonna just gonna help your audience even more because they probably see you and go, gosh, they've got it all figured out.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I always tell people, listen, I tell people on stage, look, I'm I'm barely secure enough to give this speech today.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_04: I go, like, I mean, I'm a national speaker, I've spoken to half a million.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, my biggest audience is 10,000.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_04: I just did 4,000, 3,000.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I still, I mean, I'm what I'm not saying I'm nervous to get on stage.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_04: What I'm worried about is am I gonna be okay when I get off stage worrying about what she thought about me?
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, you're fine.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: On stage on stage, yeah.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_04: On stage, God takes over, and I just I'm passionate and I go, I get yeah, but off stage is where I gotta go.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_04: I gotta go back to that little boy and go, you're enough.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_04: You're enough, yeah.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_04: You know, yeah, and the surveys, you know, those surveys, there's gonna be a few that are gonna tell you, you know, what she what you need to do better, and you know what?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_04: That it's okay, you're fine.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_04: And and I I have to do that self-talk because I my natural default position is so harsh, is so critical.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_04: So good on you two for doing that beautiful work together because I know all of my issues with Emma is me projecting onto her from my stuff, yeah, people from my parents, and that's why kids kids are such a gift.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I will finish with this the book that needs to be written is the Paulina Lola book of that experience, yeah.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_04: Because think about every parent reading a book saying, Here I was estranged for my mom.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_04: We did this work.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_04: I wanted to have different relationships.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_04: She wanted to have a different relationship, one different relationship with grandma to child, because you know all the attachment benefits of having great grandparents.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what an inspiration! Like, as you were talking, I just kept saying, That's the book that's got to be written, the Paulina Mola, you know, parenting book of saying, Hey, we broke the negative cycle for the good generations to come.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that is the ball game.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I the reason I keep doing this work is because I want Emma, Jenny's daughter, to pick a good person to be her partner.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_04: And then I want her to have all the issue, all the issues that me and Jenny had, I want her to not have.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, or at least have a compass.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we say that too in the AMC process, even in the workplace.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you will not be avoiding all conflicts, obviously.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're humans, we're gonna have conflicts.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone has a difference of opinion and perspective and experience that they bring.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like that in family dynamics and in our life.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's okay to have conflicts and we accept them and we embrace them and we create space for them when we have the tool to process.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_01: When we don't have the tool to process the conflict and repair, then they become very scary and difficult.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we don't want them and we become avoidant and shut down and that sort of thing, or we become aggressive and violent.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I agree with you a hundred percent.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna, I'm just gonna round this up and kind of close this podcast.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, I feel like we're gonna be on for another hour.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_04: I know, and I apologize.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_04: I already knew I go, man, you're probably gonna be their longest guest because you told me away too much.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, I mean opposite, Eric.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: We are so grateful for your energy.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: We love this because you know, this is I feel I bring a lot of energy to I get really excited when I talk.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's so exciting to kind of match to see someone with that same matched energy.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: And Dr.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: Lola is so passionate about what she talks about.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you bring the energy and passion, and we are so so grateful.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: And now, you know, I heard that you're gonna be joining us at the Renowned Health as well.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I I was I don't know if I was allowed to say that.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, yeah.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: But now I'm even more excited because you are so fun to connect with and talk with, and the fact that you're just as passionate and really working with people who are in the workplace, which are counselors and teachers, and you're working with the other side, which is the kids as well, the children as well.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: So you're bridging what low Dr.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Lola and I both bring to this podcast.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really beautiful.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_03: We should actually do a podcast from Rina.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that would be so amazing.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, in person, yeah, we can do it in person, uh-huh.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like a day before that would be because I know you're leaving right after the workshop on that.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I'm gonna talk to Jenny about it.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it was so hard because I want to be there for two days.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_04: I have my own, I because as you know, I do some corporate work.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_04: I'm actually leading an attachment form networking event uh good on the 24th, where I teach attachment at a networking event where I teach them why their attachment styles are gonna make it hard to network today, but I'm gonna lead you through, and then they're gonna get to actually go to network with each other in an attachment formed way.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_04: And so cool.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: We need to do that for um the singles, like a singles dating event.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_04: Can you imagine how different it could be?
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_04: It could be I I I one of my favorite uh podcasts or in books and websites is called the School of Life.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and uh you may you may have heard of uh um his last name is Deboton.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_04: He's really amazing.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_04: They do a lot on attachment, but he says that a great great a great first date should be saying, How are you screwed up?
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_04: I'll tell you how I screwed up.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: I do that.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_04: That's yeah, and then it just drops all the pretension, right?
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_04: And then if someone says, Hey, I just want to be friends, that would be the kindest thing ever.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_04: Oh friends, oh great, we're just gonna we're gonna be and then if you're friends, then you have a chance to have something more.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_04: So again, we could totally change the game game.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_04: My dream would be to get the bachelor and bachelorette off the air because it's like cruelty.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_04: It's so cringe, I know.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and just get like a uh what is what would be a really cool way to show people how to love and care for each other, you know.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so well, that's a whole nother realm.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: We bring um Jack into that for that one, you know.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: He's got the marriage and family Dr.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: Lola's husband, my father, has a marriage and family telepathy center based on that attachment.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so okay, well, this was so exciting.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Eric, for joining our podcast today.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Dr.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: Lola.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: For those of you who are listening, thank you so much for listening.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for watching.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, if you'd like more information on the EMC masterclass, our emc materials, or the form, you can find that all on emcleaders.com.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: And please follow us online on all our social media platforms TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube at EMC Leaders.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is the Leader in You podcast brought to you by EMC Leaders.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Paulina, co-host the podcast with amazing Dr.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: Lola.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: And we had here Eric today, thank you so much for joining us.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and you know what?
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna I'll give you guys my website, but most importantly, please I I'll send you my attachment resources page.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_04: We created a whole page on the website with the links to every book that I have.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_04: But you know what we'll do?
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_04: We will add we will add Lola's book to the page so that that's you know, we have they're all directly linked right to Amazon where people can get them.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_04: But we also have all the academic articles that uh form my work and Dr.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_04: Diane Poheller's uh attachment quiz, Dr.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_04: Golf's attachment quiz.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_04: So it's a real treasure trove of resources for those that want to learn more about attachment, both for you know leadership and parenting and education.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_03: So tell tell us how can people reach you?
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_04: That just go to ericbostick.com, but it's eric spelled with an A.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_04: So it's A-R-I-C B is and boy o s t-i-c-k dot com, and I'll send it to you guys to put in your like your notes section.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, absolutely.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_03: And how can the people reach you?
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_04: Just go to your website, website or um on the website you can find all my uh socials, which is just Eric Bostik.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_04: So at Eric Bostik, you can find me on LinkedIn.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and connect with Eric on LinkedIn, exactly.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that'd be great.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, amazing.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this was so fun.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_03: The time went so fast.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_03: I just love listening to you and thank you again, Eric.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_03: We we will see you soon.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, thanks, thanks, guys, appreciate it.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, bye.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you everyone for listening.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's a joy to share these podcasts with you.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_03: Be sure to check out our previous podcasts and subscribe to join us at our next podcast of The Leader in You, brought to you by EMC Leaders, taking care of the teams you care about.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: Until then, be well and be focused on your relationships.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: We'll see you soon.