Latest / Bless This Mess: A Southern True Crime Podcast / [Texas] The Ghost Train to Denton: The Disappearance of Mary Virginia Carpenter

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[Texas] The Ghost Train to Denton: The Disappearance of Mary Virginia Carpenter · Bless This Mess: A Southern True Crime Podcast

• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Maybe we'll welcome to bless Us Mess and the True
• 0:22
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• 0:25
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• 0:38
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• 0:39
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• 1:34
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• 1:41
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• 1:44
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• 1:49
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• 1:51
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• 1:53
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• 1:59
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• 2:00
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• 2:09
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• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Stu, you had one job.
• 2:14
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• 2:18
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• 2:31
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• 2:33
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• 2:37
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• 2:40
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• 2:41
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• 2:45
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• 3:59
  Speaker 1: And then I share our dinner each night. And my
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: new thing's been I've decided I like to just like
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: tie in the true crime because I really like to
• 4:05
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• 4:08
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• 4:11
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• 4:16
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• 4:19
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• 4:21
  Speaker 1: it out. And I think that is it. So let's
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: go ahead and grab our Mason jars and get into
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: it with this case out of Texas today, we are
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: talking about a twenty one year old Southern girl named
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: Mary Virginia Carpenter. Though her loved ones, her friends and
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: pretty much everyone who knew her just called her Jimmy. Now,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: Jimmy was bright, popular, and incredibly ambitious. She had a
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: smile that could light up a room, which is never good.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: It's never good, no, and a work ethic to match.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: But on June first, nineteen forty eight, she boarded a
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: train out of Texarcana, stepped off into the Texas night
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: at her destination, and literally vanished off the face of
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: the earth. Nobody has seen this girl since that night.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Now the messiest part of the story. We got a
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: tangled web of suspects that includes a local cab driver
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: with a highly convenient memory, a mysterious cream colored convertible
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: that may or may not have even existed, a late
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: night timeline that completely falls apart under scrutiny, and potentially
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: a terrifying connection to one of the most infamous unidentified
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: serial killers in American history.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: To understand the tragedy of what happened in Denton, we
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: have to start back home and Texarcana. Jimmy was born
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: and raised in a tight knit community. Her family loved
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: her fiercely. She was the kind of girl who was
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: active in her church. She had a massive circle of friends,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: and was deeply devoted to her mother, Hazel Carpenter. I
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: love that name, Hazel, Yes, a good name.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: You want to have another baby?
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: No. I just was telling Stu today, like I'm I
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: go back and forth, and then I'm like, no, I'm
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: tapped out today, today's too.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: Much fun on the forward. Yes, Now, Jimmy wasn't just
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: planning on staying local and settling down right away, which
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: was a big deal for a young lady back in
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: the nineteen forties.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a huge deal back in the forties. I
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: still want to be a career, like, have a career.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she had big dreams. She had already completed some schooling,
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: but she wanted to become a laboratory technician.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Kara, I know, I liked I liked Jimmy.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: You know, she had ambition, some drive. She wanted a
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: real career in science, which brought her to apply for
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: the summer session at Texas State College for Women known
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: today as Texas Women's University or td W TWU down
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: in Denton.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: I do like Dentton. We been to Dton, didn't we.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: We stopped in dent'on. We did the Halloween thing. Yes,
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: we drove up for the Halloween thing. We stopped at
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: Pepa the Pig.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, we did Pepin the Pig.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: I like Denton. It's real fun in Halloween. They go
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: all out. If you're ever up in that area. Now,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: Denton is a good distance away from Texarcana, about two
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: hundred miles west in nineteen forty eight, making the truckment
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: boarding the Texas and Pacific train. It was an exciting
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: new chapter for Jimmy. So on the morning of June first,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Jimmy packs up her entire summer wardrobe, her books, her
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: personal papers, her entire life into two massive, heavy, flat
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: top trunks.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: Now, because it's important, we're going to talk about her
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: physical appearance for a second, because if you saw Jimmy
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: walking down the street, she stood out in a crowd.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: She was petite, She was about five foot three and
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty pounds, with dark brown hair and
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: striking hazel eyes. But there were two incredibly distinct things
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: about her on that specific day. First, she had just
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: spent the previous weekend out in the Texas sun. So
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: she had a severe, painful, bright red sunburn stretching all
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: across her shoulders and her neck, which we have experienced.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Heart All right, whatever I read that part I was
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: about her having this sunburn, and this was like a
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: major this is going to be a major thing in
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: going forward in this case, because it's such a distinct
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: thing that happened to her that you would be like, wow,
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: like what happened to you? Because this happened to us
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: coming back from our honeymoon, because we went fishing on
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: a boat and we had in Costa Rica. We got yes,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: we we got to reapply, and we highly underestimated we
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: should have been not just wearing sunscreen, we should have
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: been covered up. And I've learned my lesson ever since.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Because we caught a fish and they we brought it
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: back to the hotel and they were going.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: To the they did cook them.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: They cooked it for us and we couldn't even stay
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: and eat it because we were so sick and like
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: miserable and miserable. And then I remember us going through
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: customs and the.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: Guy was looking at us.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: So it was very That's a very important detail about this,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: that she had this very distinct sunburn going on. On
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: top of that. I can't even imagine June on a
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: nineteen forties train car riding with this sunburn for two hours.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know if the train, yeah, I don't even think.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know if the train ride was two hours
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: or if it was like with stops.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it was four to six or
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: eight hours.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: It could have been because let me tell you what.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: You try to book that amtrak right now, they'll just
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: I mean, it'll be like, oh, we'll get you there.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: You're just like, I'm just going three hours away to Houston.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: That'll be seventeen hours and it'll cost four thousand dollars.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, if you want a room ette.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: The second detail, and this is crucial for the timeline
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: and any theories about her running away, is that Jimmy
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: had survived a childhood bout with polio. Because of that,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: she walked with a very distinct, noticeable limp. She couldn't
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: run very easily, and she couldn't hike through rough terrain
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: without a struggle, and walking long distances required real effort
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: on her part because of her about with the polio
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: and the GIMPI leg.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so keep that in mind going forward. Those two
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: things about her. Now, this is not a woman who
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: is going to easily slip away into the woods or
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: go sprinting off into the dark on a whim. She
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: dressed up beautifully for the journey too. She was wearing
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: a sharp striped chambre dress, red leather high heels, and
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: a little white stral hat. Because she was so excited
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: about doing this and starting on this new journey. She
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: looked like a classic proper Southern co ed ready to
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: conquer the world. And I just I love her outfit
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: that she has.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: She just like, could you try and look it up
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: and see what actually what it looked like.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's definitely something besides the heels, I would wear
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: ballet flats, but I would definitely wear that because you know,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I'm a dress girl.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Stick. Yeah, as long as it had pockets.
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, as long as it had pockets, were good to go.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Jimmy kisses her mother goodbye at the train station. She
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: promises her mother, Hazel, that as soon as she gets
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: there into Brackenridge Hall, she will sit down and write
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: her a letter, because not everybody has a telephone.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Back then, Kara, not every there's not. Oh, because her
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: mom probably didn't have a telephone. Her mom, the school
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: probably had telephone.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: She might have been able to find one at the
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: school call back to her mom. That's why I'm guessing
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: she told her she.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Would write her a letter, which that's very daunting for
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: her mother. You just sent your kid out with got
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: the bad leg and everything off two hours away, and now.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: You gotta wait wait for a letter to come, maybe
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: ten days for a letter.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: That's scary right there.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: So Hazel watches her daughter board the train, handles the baggage,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: checked for the two heavy trunks that she has, and
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: she watches the steam engine roll out of Texarcana.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: But the journey doesn't go smoothly. The train suffers multiple
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: delays along the route. It's supposed to arrive in Dinton
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: in the afternoon or early evening, a normal time for
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: you know, someone like Jimmy arriving alone a young woman.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: She'll be able to navigate an early afternoon early evening
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: when it's still light outside, because at this time of
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: year around here, it's freaking light till near nine PM.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: But as the hours tick by, nightfalls. By the time
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: the train finally screeches to a halt at the Denton,
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Texas and Pacific station, the clock reads roughly ten pm,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: so it's definitely pitch black at this point. It's humid.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: The station is mostly deserted, except for probably those few
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: people coming off that last train that came into Denton,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the few passengers left going there.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, Jimmy steps off the platform into the dark. She
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: has her hand luggage, but her two massive trunks are
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: unloaded from the cargo car onto the platform. She needs
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: a ride to the campus, which is a couple miles away. Luckily,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: parked right outside the station is a local taxi and
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: the man behind the wheel is twenty two year old
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: local driver named Edgar Rays Zachary, and many of the
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: early newspaper archives and true crime ride ups you will
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: see him refer to by the pseudonym Jack Price, but
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: his real name was Edgar Ray Zachary.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Zachary sees this young woman struggling with her luggage, steps
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: out and helps her low those heavy trunks into his
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: trunk and back seat of his cap Jimmy, wanting to
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: get down to the college, you know, as quick as possible,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: she readily accepts this ride. She jumps into the passenger
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: seat and gives him the destination, which is Brackenridge Hall
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: at the Texas State College for Women. The taxi pulls
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: away from the station. Now, the drive from the train
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: station to the tw campus isn't long, maybe five to
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: ten minutes at most, even back in nineteen forty eight.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Zachary drives her through the quiet streets of Denton because
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: again everything's shut down. At this point, pulls up directly
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: in front of the Brackenridge Hall, the dormitory where Jimmy
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: was assigned to live for the summer term.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: But here is where Zachary's story starts to take a
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: sharp turn into weird territory, according to the statement he
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: later gave to Texas Rangers. As he and Jimmy pulled
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: up to the dorm, Jimmy suddenly realized that the campus
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: baggage depository, which is the secure room where the students
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: had to check their heavy luggage, was already closed and
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: locked tight for the night because it was already past
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: ten pm.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Right, which makes sense the school wouldn't keep staff working
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: the baggage office that late. I mean, that's especially normal. Yeah,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: it'd be normal hours. But Zachary claims that instead of
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: dragging the trunks out, leave them on the porch, or
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: bringing them inside the dorm lobby for the night, Jimmy
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: looks at him and says, hey, I don't want to
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: lug these heavy trunks up to my room tonight, just
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: just to turn around and bring them back down to
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: the depository tomorrow morning. Why don't you just keep my
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: luggage in your taxi overnight and you can bring it
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: back to campus for me tomorrow.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: That smells like a BS story. Yes, I cannot imagine Jimmy.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I do not know Jimmy, but I cannot imagine her
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: wanting this strange man to just drive off with her luck.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, with everything she basically everything she owns.
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: No, sounds like a croc crap to me.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because when you really think about it, think about
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: how expensive clothes were back then. It's not like you
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: can get on Sheen or TikTok shop and order something
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: to be here and Walmart delivery, Walmart delivery. So those
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: are all her clothes, you know, everything that she needs
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: to survive and definitely wouldn't leave with the stranger, her
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: undergarments and everything her nightgow. I mean, this is the forties,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: They're not they ain't gonna.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Be just leaving that. I mean, now you go to
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Walmart shopping in those clothes, but back.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: Back then that you were trying to be a little
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: and proper. Yes, the most likely thing that would have
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: happened is that she would have asked him to carry
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: the the luggage into the lobby and leave it there safely.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: Then to let it go off with this random person.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: Is well, I don't know what the problem would be
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: if he carried it up to her room, because she
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: would she could have unpacked it up in her room
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: or something. Well, I don't know.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: If he was a he probably wouln't allowed to come
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: that far. They would not have allowed back then in
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: the forties. They don't even allowed sometimes in dorms currently
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: that are all female for a male to go up there.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: So I'm guessing she was sup to leave these in
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: a specific spot and they wouldn't allow the heavy luggage
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: up in the rooms.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: Or how would they have known if he walked him
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: up in there if there was nobody?
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, either way, the story does not make sense. Okay,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: what he says to the Texas Rangers does not make it.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: It does not. But even though it doesn't make sense
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: to us, Zachary insists that's exactly what she did. He
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: claims he agreed to keep the trunks, told her he'd
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: return the next day, and he began to put the
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: cab in reverse to pull away from breck and Brackenridge Hall.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: Not to mention he's a cab driver and he has
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: trunks taking up his trunk and the back of his cab.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: Why would he want to do that? He can't means
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: he can't pick anybody else up ten o'clock at.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Night in the forties. Okay, I think you think people
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: are still out back there.
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Apparently there's twenty one year olds coming in from texaar Canda.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: Oh that's the last train of the night.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: Okay. I'm just saying he's going home. Well, what if
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: he had an early morning pickup or something, you don't know,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: to get to the train, an appointment, a five am pickup.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: She ain't gonna be up at five am?
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I think they do. You think they had appointments back
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: on the forty.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Stewart It does. All I'm telling you is it doesn't
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: make sense for him to take up his trunk space
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: in the back of his cab.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: It does not at all.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: That's an I'm just saying that's another point against him,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Not just that she would never do that, but that's
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: another point against him. Yeah, in this whole thing. And
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: you're arguing that that.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: That they rolled up the sidewalks once the last train
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: rolled in.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: I know that, but I'm sure the train left at
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: five am. In the next morning, they were early risers
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: back then.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm gonna have to check the train schedule for
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: that day.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, can you beet that train because you're.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: Just throw pulling this five am out of your ass.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: There's air there's airplanes leaving at five am. You don't
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: think that he's uber driver. Okay, we're moving on from this.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: You're wrong, you were wrong, getting back on.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: Track, No pun intention.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: No pun intended. His story gets even more elaborate. Zachary
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: claims that as he is backing out and shifting years
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: to drive away, he looks up into his rearview mirror
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: in that flow of the campus street light. So it's
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: pretty murky, probably seeing seeing the color, seeing things like
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: that of anything out there. He says, he sees Jimmy
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: walking away from the entrance of the dormitory instead of
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: going inside. She walks down toward the street where a
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: yellow or cream colored convertible is parked. So this is
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: dim lighting, and he's saying he's seeing this.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: So this car that he was just parked there in
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: front of the dorm, this car he didn't mention before,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: just happened to be there, just showed up in the
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: instance that he was leaving, is what he's saying.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, and that she willing, a twenty one year old
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: girl just willingly.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Walked over there and was like in the branding.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Why wouldn't she ask them to hold her trump if
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: she knew them?
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Now, Zachary says that there are two young men standing
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: beside this convertible, Jimmy walks right up to them, opens
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: her arms and greets them like their old friends. Zachary
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: claims he watched her strike up conversation with these two
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: mysterious men, and assuming she was in safe hands with
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: people she knew, he stepped on the gas and drove
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: back to the taxi depot with her luggage in his.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: Car, even though there were two able bodied men over
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: there with a vehicle to store the trunks for her.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: That she apparently knew very well to go and greet
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: them with open arms. And he's just such a good person.
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: He just he just knew she was in good hands now,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: so he felt comfortable driving away.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: Yes he did, because that convertible was probably not secure.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Somebody could have cut the top and gotten her trunk
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: out of there if they wanted to rob them.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Well, no one else that night on campus, ever, saw
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: a cream colored convertible. No, there was no night watchmen
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: that saw no other students. I mean they are it
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: is a college. There's got to be other young people
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: out and about one way. No, the house mother didn't
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: see it. No one heard a car engine revving or
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: door slamming or anything. Jimmy never walked through the front
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: doors of Breckenridge Hall. She never signed the guest register,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: and she never claimed her room key. She simply just.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Dispaired just the end of the night. Now, one would
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: think that alarms would start going off the very next
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: morning when she didn't show up to her classes, that
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: there would be questions asked, or that.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: Her room key wasn't picked up. You know, someone had
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: to have been expecting her to she would have been
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: scheduled to show up that day. But yeah, nothing. This
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: is where it's nineteen forty eight plays a massive role
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: in this. This wasn't a regular fall semester. We're in
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: the middle of June. They dealt with a lot of
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: students dropping classes during this time because it's summer classes.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Also because of the travel and the delays that would
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: happen frequently, and lack of communication because obviously there's not
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: iPhones to be like, hey, I need to check in
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: later or anything. They also were just like a lot
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: of the people that worked there worked on farms and
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: did stuff like that where it's like, hey, Bessie had
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: an extra col this year a day late and stuff
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: like that. So just like general things that happened in
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: the nineteen forties that wouldn't happen now. The administration obviously
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: didn't have computers they so they weren't able to really
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: track as well as we could today. So if it
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: didn't a student didn't show up on day one, the
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: professors just assumed that they were late in rollies or
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: had changed their minds and it just wasn't going to
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: work out and they weren't going to be well.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: I would assume the same thing would happen today. If
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: you didn't show up for your first day class and
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: to dorm room, they'd just be like, well, I don't
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: know why they didn't show up, but well, we're not
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: sending out a bunch of I guess.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: But if you're going to a dorm room, though, they
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: would start to question why someone didn't jump. But yeah,
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: the other thing is like college students are flaky you know. Yes,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: they were like, I'm my parents were making me come
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: to this college. I'm not going anymore, and they just
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: don't show up. Like I'm going to Europe for six weeks.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: I'm going backpacking.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: Back home in Texarcana, Jimmy's mother, Hazel is waiting to
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: hear from Jimmy, but no word comes from Jimmy. Hazel
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: tells herself, well, Jimmy's train was late. She's probably just
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: exhausted unpacking, getting registered and meeting her roommates. I'll give
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: her another day. A couple more days goes by total
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: silence from Denton. Hazel is starting to get that heavy
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: sick feeling and the pit of her stomach that every
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: parent knows if you don't hear from your child when
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: you're supposed to.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's It isn't until June fourth, three full
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: days after Jimmy stepped off that train, that the everything changes.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: So Jimmy had a boyfriend named Kenny Brandham who was
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: living and working down in Dallas. Kenny was crazy about Jimmy.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: They had a plan that he was going to drive
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: up to Denton on the weekend to visit her once
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: she got settled in. Kenny had been trying to call
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: the dorm office at Breckenridge Hall for two days just
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: to hear her voice, but the staff kept telling him
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: they couldn't locate her. So we did have at least
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: somebody that was a little bit closer, because Dallas is
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: about forty five minutes from Dinton or.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: So forty fivis now with the Interstate. I don't know what, oh,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know back then in forty.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Eight it's closer than TeX's Arcana. So yes, yeah, so
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: there was someone at least in the area that he
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: that her mom probably felt at least a little bit
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: better that she had someone there that was closer to
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: her to be be around to help her out.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Right, And Kenny's getting worried. He calls Hazel back in
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: texts Arcana. He says, miss Carpenter, have you heard from Jimmy?
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: He's been calling the college. They can't seem to find
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: her in the directory. And this is the exact moment
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: that Hazel breaks down. She dials the university registered directly.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and she doesn't get any further than Kenny gets
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: with it. They cannot find Jimmy. So the administrator on
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: the line, looks up the paper records, checks with the
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: house mother at the Brackenridge Hall, and she comes back
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: on and she says, ma'am, Mary Virginia Carpenter never checked
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: into her dorm room. She hasn't signed our logbooks, she
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: hasn't attended a single summer lecture. We have no clue
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: where she is.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Can you imagine the absolute terror that your kid
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: is just missing like that?
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Out of I mean, and you're it's just I
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: just can't imagine because now we're so connected with our
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: phones and everything. Back then you just kind of over here,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: like f four.
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: Or five, six days go by it and you're like, okay,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: so you've lost all this time. Hazel instantly contacts the
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Texarcana Police. They call the Denton Police, and because of
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: the distance. In the high profile nature of a young
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: college girl missing, the Texas Department of Public Safety throws
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: their top dogs on the case, and the legendary Texas
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Reindeers Rangers take over the case, led by a brilliant,
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: no nonsense investigator by the name of Lewis C. Wriglar.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: If I was going to see him played by somebody
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: in a comedy, it would.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Be Rob wriggle.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: In a cop in a cop comedy. Yes, so Ranger
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Rigg say that tent fast arrives in Denton, boots on
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: the ground, but he is already seventy two hours behind
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: the eight ball. The trail is growing cold, rain has fallen,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: tire tracks are gone, and anyone who might have seen
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: something on Tuesday night probably ain't remembering too much by now.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: I mean it's a random day of your week and
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: here we.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Are on Friday. Yeah, everybody's getting ready for the weekend.
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Regular starts by tracking the very basic logistics, like how
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: does a girl with a noticeable limp move her luggage?
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: He goes to the local taxi companies and asks who
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: picked up a girl matching this description around ten pm
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: on the train from the train on Tuesday.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Well, if that don't take long to fine Old Edgar Ray Zachary.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And when Range wrig'lar and the local detective show up
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: at Zachary's house to question them, they don't even have
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: to look hard for any evidence. Sitting right there in
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: his house, completely undisturbed, are jemmies two heavy flat top trunks.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, which is apps insane that he still has the
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: freaking trunks because.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: He was supposed to go drop them off. Yeah, he was.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: First of all, he was supposed to go drop them off,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: and second of off, I just even if if he
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: did something I would, I would probably dispose of the trunks.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: So of course they asked him, like, why on earth
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: do you have this missing girl's trunks like this sitting
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: in your living room? And he's like, hey, he's not
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: very nonchalant about it. He said, she told me to
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: keep them overnight, and I just got busy with other
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: things and forgot to bring them back to the campus.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: These two coffee tables in your livings, You forgot about them.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: You had to again. He had to unload them from
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: his car to pick up anybody else. So there was
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: there was intent, like why wouldn't you unload him at
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: the go back to the campus. You're like, oh, man,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I gotta unload these Why wouldn't you drive back to
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: the campus and unload them rather than to unload them
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: into your home?
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: One would think. The rangers hauls Acri down to the station,
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: they grill him for hours. They bring in a polygraph expert.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: I was surprised to find out that the polygraphs were
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: around in nineteen forty eight. Now they are.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Relatively useless then as they are now, they.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: Were relatively new and they were highly touted back then.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: They hugged Zachary up to the machine, asked him if
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: he heard Jimmy, ask him if he killed her, asked
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: him about the cream colored convertible, YadA, YadA. According to
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: the historical police records, Edgar Ray Zachary passes the light
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: detector with flying colors.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: You know who else passed the light detector testing Cara No, Oh,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Gary freaking Ridgeway, the Green River Killer. He killed seventy
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: women and he passed his polygraph. They said he thought
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: they thought he was just too dumbed to to fel it.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Like he was just where is the psychopath?
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Well he passed it, like and that was in two thousand,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: or that might have been in the nineties or something
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: like that. But yeah, he killed seventy women and passed
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: that with flying colors, which is part of the reason
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: he continued was able to kill seventy women because they
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: just were like, oh, well he passed the polygraph if
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: he's put it back on the street. Yeah, So the
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: investigators are completely frustrated. The physical evidence, the trunks in
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: his possession. His story sounds completely ridiculous. As for us,
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: we're not even rational people and we think find it
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: a'bsol ridiculous. But the machine says he's telling the truth,
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: and just like Gary Ridgeway, they believed it. So without
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: a body, without a crime scene, and a past polygraph,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: the police have their hands tied. They're not really much
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: the else they can do in the nineteen forties with this,
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: there's no security cameras, there's nothing now. They are forced
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: to let him go. But the community didn't forget, and
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: rumors started spreading like wildfire across North and East Texas,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: back in Texarcana, up in Denton's.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Do Even though Zachar was cleared by his polygraph in
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: nineteen forty eight, your alibi kara is only as good
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: as the person backing it up. Yes, and Zachar's alibi
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: rested entirely on what his wife has said.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, you gotta be real careful if you're going to
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: do something bad, you got to make sure whoever is
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: given your alibi, you guys are solid.
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Like if that or you better be on camera somewhere
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: or have records of some sort yeah.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: So back in nineteen forty eight, when the Texas Rangers
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: knocked on her door and she told him exactly what
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: her husband needed her to say. She said that Edgar
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: came straight home after a shift. He tucked himself into bed,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: safe and sound by ten thirty PM, just a good
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: old wholesome boy. And that was right after the train arrived.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Would have been the exact time frame that he needed
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: to keep all this tightly locked his whole story, because
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: if he was home by ten thirty, he would not
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: have time to commit a violent crime, dispose of a body,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: clean a taxi, and then get back back home to
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: his wife.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: But Kara, as we know in relationships, as you go
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: down the relationship path, if things don't work out.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Oh, all the secrets I'll take, all the secrets I
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: will tell about you. No, we have to make it pact.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: If this goes defunked, we are we have an NDA
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: non disclosure greed.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, can't tell about nothing. Decades down the road, when
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Zachary was older and the marriage had fractured, Kara, his wife,
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: sat down with investigators and completely retracted her statement. She
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: confessed that she had lied to the Texas Rangers. Out
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: of sheer terror in a misplaced sense of loyalty to
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: old Zachary. Yeah.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: The problem is is that anytime a relationship ends, though,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: is the person doing it because that they really wanted
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: to come forward and tell the truth, or is it
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: because they're mad at the person? But Zachary, he sounds
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: like old. He sounds like he's not wasn't telling the
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: truth to begin with. So she admitted that on the
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: night Jimmy Carter vanished, Edgar Ray, Zachary did not come
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: home at ten thirty pm.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: You just said, Jimmy Carter.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Well, it's oop, see Jimmy Carpenter. Okay, it's very close.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: All right, No it's not.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: But Jimmy Carter and Carpenter Jimmy Okay. Well that whenever
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: I say Jimmy, the natural next progression is Jimmy Carter.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Did he die?
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Okay. Anyway, so she said that he was not home
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: at ten thirty pm. In fact, she sat awake in
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: the dark watching the clock take away. He didn't stumble
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: through that front door until somewhere between two and three am,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: which seves plenty of time to do some bad things.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Now, this leaves a massive four hour window completely accounted for.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: So there's a big old hole in Zachary.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And accounted for. You said it counted, Oh did I?
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, Well, I had to make you feel better about
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: your jim Jimmy Carter four hours in the middle of
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: the night with a taxi cab, a young woman who
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: couldn't run away due to a physical disability, and a
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: dark Texas landscape. We got this guy with, like we said,
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: four hours of missing time now instead of a night
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: nice tidy alibi that he was home by ten thirty.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: I'd also like to come back to the sunburn, because
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: if I had a massive sunburn like that, the last
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: thing I don't want to do is go meet up
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: with two guys you know like and then hug them
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: and hug them like that's not happening. And as it
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: gets worse, investigators started digging into Zachary's background in his
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: life after nineteen forty eight, it turned out he wasn't
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: just a regular law binding Cabby stew just a good old,
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: good old boy. In nineteen fifty seven, less than a
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: decade after Jimmy disappeared, Zachary was arrested, put on trial,
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: and convicted for an entirely, entirely unrelated brutal sexual assault
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: of another woman. So, I mean.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Things is the math is starting a math on the
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: long side for old Zachri. Evidently he had a dark
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: violence strike and he had a pattern of targeting vulnerable women.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: When you couple this, couple his later conviction with his
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: wife's admission that in his nineteen forty eight alibi that
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: this was a total fabrication, the theory of the cab
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: driver shifts from a suspicious hunch and do probably what
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: actually happened. Many modern researchers in cold case enthusiasts believe
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: that Zachary simply invented the story about the cream colored
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: convertible and the two mystery men as a smoke screen
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: to cover those tracks, throw the Texas Rangers off his
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: tail and what he had done. Because any break in
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: the first forty eight hours, the longer it goes from
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: the crime, yeah, to the investigation. Yeah, by the time,
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: all that evidence is getting lost.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and hers didn't start for seventy two hours. So
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, day were just the weather. Yep. However, not
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: everybody is one hundred percent positive that Jimmy did this,
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: even though he's a terrible human being. There is a
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: second major theory in Jimmy's disappearance that takes his back
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: deep into the woods of the serial killer past out
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: in Texarcana. So this is Jimmy's hometown that we're going
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: to look into, which, if you listen to our last episode,
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: this is why we're doing this one. We covered this
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: in depth on the last episode.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, this is a tag on and add on to
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: that because when we talked about tex Arcana, we had
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: the tex Arcana Moonlight murders in the spring of nineteen
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: forty six, just two years before Jimmy boarded that train.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: A hooded a guy wearing a pillowcase with some eyeholes.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, very creepy, very disturbing, very Halloween.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Yes, he was dubbed the Phantom Killer or the Phantom Slayer.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: Kara as Stu likes to refer to it.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: And he stalked this border town. He targeted young couples
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: that were parked out on secluded levers lanes, attacking them
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: with brutal violence. He killed five people and severely injured
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: three others. The town was under complete martial law. People
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: locked their doors, bought out every gun store AMMO within
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: a fifty mile radius and lived an absolute terror for
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: about six to eight weeks.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: I think it was Yes, and the Phantom killer was
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: never caught. This murders just abruptly stopped. And if you'll
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: listen due to someone's arrest back then again, go check
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: out that episode for all of the details.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Drink.
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: So that's when Texas Rangers started looking into Jimmy Carpenter's background.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: They uncovered another detail another drink Yes, that made their
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: blood run cold. Jimmy wasn't just a random resident of Texarkana.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: She was deeply and personally connected to victims of the
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Phantom Killer. So she's got this close connection to a
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: bunch of people that were murdered by a serial killer.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: It's not it's not a good place.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: To be, you know, No, it is not. Jimmy was
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: close friends with and personally knew three out of the
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: five people who were murdered by the Phantom Slayer. She
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: was a prominent member of the exact youth social circle
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: that the killer was actively hunting at the time.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Because of that connection, Ranger Wriggler immediately formulated terrifying hypothesis. Hypothesis,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: what if the Phantom killer wasn't duns Due.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: What if Jimmy knew something about those murders. What if
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: she had seen a piece of evidence, recognized a voice,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: or figured out the identity of the identity of the
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: killer within their town. And that's why she was leaving
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: Texarcana headed to Denton. She wanted to stay away from
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: this phantom.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: I mean it's possibility, it's a possibility.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: I still think Eh Edgar did it.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: Oh, you're just gonna throw that in there. Yeah, we're
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: not even gonna suss this out anymore. As the theory goes,
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: what if the phantom had found out followed her onto
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: that train. No, drove down ahead of her. No, he
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: was waiting for her on the platform in Denton for
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: her to arrive. No, it sounds like a Hollywood thriller, Cara.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's it's too it's too much. You know, it's
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: too much.
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Well, how the Texas Rangers took it seriously enough that
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: they cross reference to every single suspect from the Moonlight
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Murderers file against the passenger logs of the train and
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: the registration records of every vehicle in Denton County.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: Well, at least they were doing their due diligence, though
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: I will give them that they were specifically specifically hunting
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: for that yellow or cream colored convertible that Zachary claimed
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: to see. They thought maybe the Phantom was driving that car.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: They spent months checking out Leeds, interviewing Texar Cannon residents
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: who had moved to the Denton aarya, and trying to
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: see if there was a stalker in her life. But
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: despite their absolute best efforts, the rangers could never find
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: a single shred of physical evidence linking the Texar can
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: At Moonlight murders to the vanishing Jimmy Carpenter. It remains
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: one of those frustrating mysteries in Texas history. Do it
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: both ends? What happened to Jimmy? And who this?
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: This serial antler was out there slayer?
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, the phantom slayer. I like the Moonlight murders. I
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: thought that was a I think it's good.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: That's a soft, soft touch on the serial killer.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: As the decades rolled on, the case grew quiet in May.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: But in May of nineteen ninety eight, exactly fifty years
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: after Jimmy went missing, a bizarre and dramatic development took place.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Kara at the Denton Police Department. A local man, now
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: up in his seventies and there in the end of
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: his life, walked into the station, claiming that he needed
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: to unburden his soul before he met his maker.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, they're always trying to make amends right at the end,
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: ste you know. I'm just I don't feel like I
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: should get a get out of jail free card. I
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: don't think you should be in prison and you're about
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: to go, you know, when you're going to be put
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: to death, and you did terrible things, then all of
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: a sudden you get to just repent, and all of
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: a sudden everything's just fine. I'm not sure I'm okay
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: with that.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: You're not okay with that part of the Bible.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: No, especially when you know when you're going to meet
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: your maker, you know, and when you're up in your seventies,
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, I'm about to This is about to happen.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: You may not can happen any day.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, it could happen any day. So this man told
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: detectives a highly detailed, horrific story. He claimed that back
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: in June of nineteen forty eight, he was hanging out
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: with two local Denton men He alleged that these two
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: men had intercepted Jimmy the night she arrived, assaulted her,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: and murdered her. He claimed that he didn't participate in
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: the killing, but he helped them dispose of her body.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: As they all claim they didn't actually participate in the murder.
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: He gave the police a specific location. He said they
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: took Jimmy's remains to a spot on the university campus
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: grounds where a dam was being constructed for a local
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: stock tank. And it's a small live stock pond basically
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: is what they were creating. He claimed. They threw her
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: body into the deep excavation and poured dirt on it
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: and concrete right over her, sealing her into the geography
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: of the school forever.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: The Denton Police and the Texas Rangers didn't take this lightly,
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: even though fifty years had passed. They secured heavy construction equipment,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: back hose, real hose, and frint kills. Sorry. They went
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: out to the campus grounds to the exact side of
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: the old nineteen forty eight stock tank and began a
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: massive excavation. So they were taking this serious. I mean,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: that's a major thing to do.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: Sounds like this guy was credible. They're like, yeah, we're
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: gonna go. We're gonna get the permits need and go
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: look this up.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: They moved tons of earth dug deep into the bedrock
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: and spent days sifting through the soil looking for any
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: sign of human remains, clothing, fibers, or possibly like one
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: of her red leather high heels, because that might have
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: been one that could have held up over time.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: But after days of digging and tearing up the campus,
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: the search came up completely empty. They found absolutely nothing.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: The sheriff later noted that the two men the informant
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: had accused had already passed away years prior, so they
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: could not be questioned. The informant story was chalked up
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: to either a false memory, a twisted deathbed hoax, or
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: a legendary local rumor that had gotten out of hand.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: The holes were covered back up and the old camps
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: went back to business as usual.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Man if I'd known about this story before, we could
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: have passed by there and seen where that was at.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: You know, I like to like this scene.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I like to pass by scenes. I like to pass
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: by a Ted Bundy sorority house. Yes, so this brings
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: us to the final and perhaps most tragic theory. This
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: is the ideal that Jimmy Carpenter simply chose to vanish.
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: There's a small group of people who believed that Jimmy
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: was facing immense pressure back home. Perhaps she had an
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: unwanted pregnancy, perhaps a secret romance that her traditional family
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: would never approve of, or just the suffocating expectations of
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: nineteen forty Moltown life. I don't know about that, because
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: she apparently her mom was very supportive, and she left
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: for college two hours away to be a laboratory.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Technician, and she seemed kind of ambitious.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just don't She seemed like she was had plans,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: you know.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There was a strange event that happened right as
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Jimmy's train pulled out of the Texarcana station on June first.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: A ticket agent reported that a frantic, unidentified woman called
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: the station, asking repeatedly if a girl named Virginia Carpenter
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: had boarded the train or if she was still on
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: the platform. The caller refused to give her name and
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: hung up abruptly.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so some people think that the phone call was
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: a signal. The theory goes that Jimmy orchestrated a grand escape,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: She packed her trunks, knowing they would act as a distraction,
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: left them with the cab driver on purpose to buy
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: herself time, and willingly walked away with two men in
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: that cream colored convertible to catch a ride out of state,
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: leaving her old identity behind forever. The next ten years,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: police received dozens of letters claiming to have seen Jimmy
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: working as a waitress in California, living a quiet life
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: in New York, or hiding out in a small town
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: in Louisiana. Yeah. Maybe no, Karen Craw Karen Craw yep,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: but every single sighting was investigated and not a single
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: one could ever be verified. I don't think that's true.
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: I just can't even imagine she would. Just where would
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: she meet these two men that she's going to meet
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: up and with? And why would it be two men?
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: Like, why wouldn't she have some girlfriends?
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, some girlfriends or something to run around with.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It sounds far fetched, yes, but.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: They you know, that's what happens whenever you have one
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: of these mysteries where you don't know what happened, and
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: no one ever was held accountable, even though I'm pretty
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: sure old Edgar Zachary was the one who did it.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: They people start making up things.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: You know, Yes, today the files of Mary Virginia Carpenter
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: sit in a dusty archival boxes. The people who loved her,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: the investigators who hunted for and the suspects who lied
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: about her have all passed on to their great rewards.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: Kara Edgar Ray Zachary took whatever secrets he had to
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: his grave. In nineteen eighty four, Hazel Carpenter died with
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: a broken heart, never getting that letter that her daughter
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: promised to write.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: So what is so? You know my opinion, I think.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: That that Cabby did it.
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: Cabby did it. He saw an opportunity, he saw a
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: girl late at night. I mean even today, I mean,
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't have a man drop you off with nobody
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: there to meet you. I don't know if maybe they
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: were more trusting back then, but I just feel like, yeah,
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it.
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: Just he definitely Cabby for sure did it.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's especially since he had that second second
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: incident where he went to jail.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: Where the first where he was convicted.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, where he went and then yeah, I think he
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: totally did it. What do you and that's what you
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: would agree.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: I would concur I do.
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: Not think the phantom killer or slayer followed her. It
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: didn't and took her out because I think that phantom
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: killer was that guy that got arrested and the murder stopped.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: They had that guy. This this swally guy or swelly.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Or whatever his name was.
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was I think he did it. But anyway,
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: so that is our story out of Texas. Another mystery. Guys,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: we we are leaning heavily. Don't don't be coming at
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: me with no like, why are you giving me unsolved cases? Yes, dude,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: but I said, but our thing says we're murder mystery
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: in Mayhem. So this is the mystery aspect.
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: Of it all.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, oh my god. All right, So if you do
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: you have your y'all need Jesus.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: Of course I do.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: That's still saying, guys. Even though we've upgraded a lot
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: of stuff on the podcast, I couldn't. I can't. I
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: tried to upgrade that, but that's just here to stay
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Stew's y'all need Jesus. All right, are you ready?
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I'm ready?
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, go.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Okay this they quote, Okay, well, this is coming to
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: us from nine News Amanda se Saiyu July twenty one,
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: twenty six kind, you have a stray? Brothers find stranger
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: asleep in their truck bed Florida or not Florida?
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: Not Florida? What is this? This is dumb.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Two Edmund, Oklahoma brothers found an unexpected passenger sleeping in
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: their truck bed after UFC fight night on Saturday. Home
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: security camera video captured two Edmund brothers discovering that they
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: drove home from a night out with more than just
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: a good time together and the now viral video posted
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: by Jaden Huck shows her fiance Andrew and his brother
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Lance pulling into their Edmund home after the US fight
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: night on Saturday night. As Lance gets out of the truck,
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: he sees a mystery man walking up, waking up in
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: their truck and putting his hat on. Hey, Andrew, you
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: got astray. You got someone in the back of your truck,
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Lance exclaimed. After checking to see if the man was
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: all right, Both brothers burst into laughter.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: At least they had a good you know, sense of humor.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: You know, Yes, what time were they driving home? It
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: was in the night, Okay. I don't think that they
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: should have been driving personally because I feel like they
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: were at a UFC fight and they how do you
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: know they were watching the usf FC fighting late at night?
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: What after checking it? Oh you didn't want to knock
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: on the window or nothing, Andrew asked, No, I'm good,
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: the stranger replied. Andrew eventually opens the tailgate to let
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: the man crawl out. You're all the way in Edmund,
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Oklahoma at Lance joke. Thank you kindly, the man replied,
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: no problem, man said Andrew. There's a lot of quotes
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: going on here.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: I guess I remembered exactly what they said.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, it's on the camera.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: Where were did they watch the fight out? How far
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: did they drive?
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: It was like twenty minutes.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: Oh that's not that far. What was the guy gonna do?
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: Just later, I'm went, well, I can't do anything now.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: If i'd knock on the dorm and a scare them,
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: they're probably gonna.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Cry, drive off the road and crash and kill us.
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just have to ride it out to me like, well,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: I hope they're not serial killers.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: I get there by my head, get home and cut
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: me up and eat me. Is that your story? Jaden said?
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: The brothers gave the man some water, then called one
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: of his friends to pick him up. That was the
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: end of it.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Why didn't they drive him back because they're not they're
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: like you did, because they were probably drunk.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: We're not driving you twenty minutes. We barely made it here.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: We barely made it here, staying between the ditches. We
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: can't drive you back.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: How Why are you assume one of these guys fellows
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: was drinking and driving just because they were bad at the.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: UFC pipe in Edmund, Oklahoma.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, they're probably doing myth. They weren't drinking.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's method up anyways. All right, so that is
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: our y'all need Jesus.
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, whenever you fall asleep, just fall asleep in the
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: right truck. Yes.
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: Make sure that they're nice fellas that aren't gonna rob.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: Or murder you. Yes, I think in another version of
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: the story, I saw he thought that was his friend's truck,
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: but it was not. Whenever he went to pass out.
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: It happens. I mean, like I said, I never I
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: don't remember leaving that wedding.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: That this is true. You know, poured you into an
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: uber happened.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: I did party, as we call her. She's like, well,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: at least you had the sense to do woman only
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: uber She said, I didn't have the sense to that.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: She said, I don't know who picked me.
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: Up, shouldn't remember who took her home.
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: No, she's the same way I was. It's her fault,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: all right. Well, that's it for this week's episode Out
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: of Texas. Now reminder, if you love our show or
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: want to support us, please take a quick second to
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: leave us a five star review on Apple podcast or
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: Spotify or really wherever you listen. It will really help
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: us grow.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: Our porch stew drink.
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: Just let me have it to just let me have
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: my metaphors.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: Well, some people have told us that whenever they hear
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: details now they can't they automatically think drink.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Well, I can't do it, say I'm at work and
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: I'm sitting there thinking that in my head, like I
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: don't even want to say it and stuff.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Well, it's like canon law now because like whenever after
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: the American Pie movie anybody says this one time, you're
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: automatically required to say that band camp, yes.
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: That is true. And then also if you want to
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: join the Patreon or anything like that, for sitting sipping
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: and bullshitting or all the other stuff we do. Go ahead.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: And there's also it's really cool we have there's a
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: we have a chat now for the porch. We call
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: it the Porch Chat, and so you can directly it's
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: almost like almost like a text message to us how
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: it is. And it's a whole our whole group if
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: you get to if you I can't remember which level
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: of Dutch tier, but yeah, it's pretty cool because we
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: can see people's comments in real time coming into us
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: and we can respond. So that's nice. If you heard
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: last week's episode, I practicing our new sign off. However,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: I've changed it because I didn't I didn't remember what
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: it was, so I changed it, and so I've been
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: saying something different. So our new sign off is, and
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: this is the one going forward to because this is
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: this is our Upgrader change rebrand. It is going to
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: be stay safe, lock your doors, keep your porch light on,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: buy everyone, say bye, stew.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Tell't you know it's bad to be superstitious? Mind mapping
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: else since working it's sick. This word
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: Can