Latest / Just & Joyful with Kristin Carver Smith / Admitting Burnout and Letting Go of a Business - Part 2: The Fall of The New Fashioned Co. | S2E3

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Admitting Burnout and Letting Go of a Business - Part 2: The Fall of The New Fashioned Co. | S2E3 · Just & Joyful with Kristin Carver Smith

• Kristin Carver Smith: Hello and welcome to another episode of Just Enjoyful. I'm your host, Kristen Carver Smith or KCS, as anybody cool calls me. ⁓ and I am here with Angelina Burkholder, our executive producer and former president of the New Fashion Co. Angelina Danae: you Mm-hmm, that's a throwback. Kristin Carver Smith: And important because today we are going to talk about the fall of the new fashion co. And I should say, I know that sounds quite traumatic, okay? And but like please, just so you know, when I s when I say the fall of the new fashion co, we didn't get canceled. We didn't have some ⁓ crazy scandal. There is not a documentary about, you know, the new fashion co on the Netflix yet. Angelina Danae: you yet. Kristin Carver Smith: ⁓ about its wild success. ⁓ It's the fall as we know it, the fall as we experienced it. And if you had perhaps been following along with us at the time or had, I don't know, admired, gazed at us from afar, loathed us from afar, I don't know. ⁓ you likely would have seen that we were going up, up, up, up, up, and then. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: Where'd they go? Where'd they go? What happened? So today we're gonna talk about how we got to the top of the mountain and what it looked like to come to the pretty devastating reality that the New Fashion Co. in its iteration, in what it was, had come to an end. So Angelina Danae: What happened? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: Angelina. I am curious. For me, I felt like 2022 was our that's kind of where it was like all coming to a head. I don't know. Was it like that for you? Do you feel like it even started in 2021? What was it looking like for you, Mrs. President? Angelina Danae: Thank you. Yeah, I mean, 2022 was definitely the most intense year. mean, you 2021 was intense in that we were starting. There was a lot of, it could be labeled as uncertainty, but we didn't feel that at the time we had so much, you know, belief and, like we, like, we just were so positively charged towards what this thing would become. ⁓ but it was still, it was something brand new. were Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Angelina Danae: employees, you know, we had a team, we had clients, we were figuring out anything from like the basic things of what project management software are we going to use to like really big things like how are we going to take care of our people both in-house and you know, external. But 2022 was when like interest was at an all-time high, we were getting so much, there were so many new clients coming to us, we had, you know, we kept playing around with our services and our our offerings and the pricing associated with that. So there was just like constant change happening. We, we had like several migrations from the softwares that we were using to, to project manage to like where we were running billing out of like, was just so much happening. And then we were like, we need to hire and going like, was just. I remember walking into my reset in May and being like, I am going to fall over. And I just did nothing for a week for my first week and just. Kristin Carver Smith: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Angelina Danae: yeah, it was just 2022 was chaos. was organized chaos, but it was, it was, that was definitely where the intensity was at, at a high for me. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah, yeah. Do you feel like we would build things and as soon as we built it it would break? Angelina Danae: Did I think that that would happen or, is that what happened? Kind of. Yeah. Because we were growing so fast. You know, it was the systems that we started out with out the gate. They lasted for like six months. Then in November, we were like, we need something bigger, but like we need something more robust. And, ⁓ and I remember that, you know, there were some people on the team that that was really a struggle. Kristin Carver Smith: Did I or or it's Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Angelina Danae: for them to constantly, like we were, and we were asking a lot of ourselves and of our team to, be so adaptable and flexible and constantly, you know, constantly be, but that's, you know, I also feel like to a certain extent, that's the energy you have to have as a startup because. Kristin Carver Smith: Yes. Yeah. For sure. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. I I will say in hindsight, you know, sometimes I look back and I go, like, I'm not sure that a ⁓ startup environment, ⁓ or that even our specific startup environment would, you know, if if your nervous system was already like pretty haywire, that was probably a really hard place to be in. ⁓ Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yep. Kristin Carver Smith: And you know, so I yeah, I all of what you have just shared really resonates. And I I don't maybe our listeners have even found themselves or our viewers have even sound found themselves in that situation, whether it's inside a company or, you know, even personally, where it's just like it feels like there's so much growth or there's feels like there's so much shifting and change happening. And I do think that, you know, again, y'all, twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: The world still felt quite uncertain, right? We still like you know, I remember Angelina there being times where it was like, COVID's gone, COVID's back, COVID's never going away. I like it was like you just don't so it's like there's this underlying am I I think again, we had just also been living in a moment where it was like you really wondered if you were safe. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Yes. Mmm. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: And and safety in terms of like your health, but also I mean, I think that there was a lot of ⁓ you know, marginalized individuals live with the like, am I safe feeling all day, every day? Right? So now there's like this extra layer of like, am I like I am I safe from this invisible thing? Right? So I feel like there was this, am I are we safe? What is certain? What is firm? Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: ⁓ and then trying to build a business ⁓ in the midst of all you know, where you're just like ⁓ you know, it just feels like you're building on ground that's moving all the time. And that's that that feels ⁓ you know, pretty difficult. So I remember ⁓ during that time starting to feel like Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: There were days that I was working until, you know, sometimes nine o'clock at night, sometimes things would bleed over into the weekend and f and thinking like Work is occupying so much more of my mental space, even physical space in some ways, than I was hoping for it to. And that does not mean that I, you know, am naive to what it looks like to build. You know, as I've shared with you all ⁓ before, you know, I left an agency to build my own business in 2017. And so it's not the first time that I had built. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: It was the first time that I had built a W2, you know, providing 401ks and we we bought laptops for people. I remember the day that happened where I was like, people don't have to use their own computers. We actually have enough revenue where we can we can buy brand new Apple computers for everyone. Like there was so much that we were building. And so I knew that building requires a certain amount of effort and fuel and you know, all of that sort of stuff. But I could really see Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: I did not know how to pull myself out of things that I had no business being in sometimes. And when I look back, I'm like, gosh, I wish I was a better delegator. ⁓ I wish I had bet been a better empowerer. And that might not even be a word, but we're gonna use it here. But Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. We're gonna make it one. Kristin Carver Smith: You know, I I I felt like that was one of the first cracks for me is that we had often met with clients and had strategy sessions and were, you know, building the you know, PR strategies and all of that sort of stuff where we said we want to help you create something that's sustainable. And we want a strategy for you that's subs that is sustainable, and we don't want you to be in a gilded cage. And this was like Angelina Danae: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: I you know, I remember we were living in Lexington, Kentucky at the time. My husband works for a large automaker and they had us there and it I I remember vividly being like, I think I might have built the gilded cage. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Yeah. And it was hard to, you know, from a different perspective, ⁓ it came across just as intense passion and care for the work and of, this is just what it takes to build a business. But then, you know, once... Kristin Carver Smith: That's cute. That's cute. I'm glad it came across that way. Cause really, I mean, you and I both know really what it is, y'all. And I I I really, it's like I I hope that this is like hit you right in the heart today. Really what that is is control. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: I'm trying to control the outcome because, you know, at times in my life, sometimes that has served me, right? Sometimes it has served me. And I have had to, and I've been in situations where I had to throw the city on my back. And that that's fine. That worked. ⁓ I did not have to do that here, but I did not know how to let go. I didn't know how to let go. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Like you're the CEO and you're still writing a press release. Excuse me. Excuse me. ⁓ man. Yeah. And I think it, you know, Kristin Carver Smith: Why? Why? Why? Angelina Danae: It was hard to then when it came time where it was like, have to transition Kristen out of some of this stuff because you literally didn't have time to run the actual business or do, you know, if you're the person who's meeting, you're always going to do intake. ⁓ there wasn't even time to do that stuff because you're, you were so bogged down by details. And I feel like we we tried to make that shift over a year into the process. And that was. Kristin Carver Smith: Mm mm Mm. Too s too late. Yeah. Yeah. Angelina Danae: really rough for the team of like, there was just this, well, can Kristen at least look at it? Can Kristen at least review it? ⁓ Kristin Carver Smith: Too many things that it was like, Well, Kristen, da-da-da. And it's like, I and so I want y'all to hear me say this loud and clear. That's my fault. That's like that, and and and I think it's like if you are leading something, ⁓ if you are running a business, if you're thinking about starting one, it's if I could, if I got a do-over and like. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: I'm gonna give you a little wink right here because we'll just leave it at that. But like if I could do it over, I would start with my entire job is to empower. My entire job is to equip. It is not even to manage, it is to empower, it is to equip. Angelina Danae: you Hmm... Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: And it is to make sure that I truly have people around me, a team, that so and so is the only one that can do that thing, you know, and ⁓ that we that we are really and truly that I'm is spending the time on on doing only the things that I can do that delivers value for the company. Not, you know, and I and to be honest, I probably didn't even do a great job of that. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Maybe. Hmm. Yeah, I don't know. mean, I think that there were, again, like you said, you mentioned this before we started hitting record, before we hit record and then we're like, we got to start recording because we're already beginning the conversation, which is what happens so many times. But you had said, you know, you'd said something like, I really do believe that our intentions were pure. And they were, you know, none of, I think even though Kristin Carver Smith: Yes. As we usually do, correct. Yes, yes, yes. Angelina Danae: You said that that is actually just control. The intent of it was from this place of, wanna do really good work. And like you've said before, people's livelihoods are counting on this company doing well. And so I think the intent was pure, the way that it was, yeah. And that's where it gets tricky is like figuring out how the intent manifests and making sure that that manifestation is healthy. Kristin Carver Smith: Yes. Yep. Yes, yes. That's so good. And I I love that ⁓ you just touched on something where, you know, when something cracks, inevitably there's gonna be another crack, right? It's like usually I want everybody to kind of picture visualize a crack right now, little offshoots, right? Or something starts cracking over there. So right, I'm I'm starting to see cracks of personally. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: The work is it's home with me as it was for so many people during that time. But it's also bleeding into areas where, you know, it's I'm dreaming about it. I'm you know, I'm I'm not moving my body because I'm like, I gotta stay here and I gotta finish this thing and all of that sort of stuff. And ⁓ you know, the other crack that I started Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: seeing was was I I really was feeling the weight of because things were so uncertain and we had W-2 employees that were relying on you know, the the dollars that we were bringing in with the business and stuff to support their families and whatnot. I I was carrying that weight quite a bit ⁓ and felt like since I was such a part of intake or helping to sign clients and really kind of like selling, you know, the new fashion co to people, ⁓ that was another kind of like crack for me of just that weight became really difficult to bear. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: ⁓ and I felt just to be really honest, really shitty sometimes because, you know, I would go into these s sales meetings and as excited as I was about the person or representing them or their story or what might be possible, I was also like, this is gonna create more work and I already don't know how we do it. You know? And so it became this like, I think in the, you know, the back of my head, I was like, I kind of don't want to close this. Angelina Danae: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: I kinda don't wanna and that's a and it's so difficult because I am actually a person who loves to pitch and close, whether it's for sales or media or TV or shows or you know, whatever. It's like pitch, close, give me a yes. ⁓ and so that became I don't know, did you feel that? Angelina Danae: Really? Yeah. feel it in the sense of let's not take on more work even if we're excited about it or in observing. Kristin Carver Smith: Yes, yes, slash also, or even in observing me. Angelina Danae: Yeah, definitely. mean, you, I mean, there's always, you were at your best when you were pitching. and, and, and especially if it was like a, we say face to face, but it was all on zoom, right? When, when you, when you could be in a room with people, that was when you were at your best and, you, and I think, you know, from an app, from my perspective, where you like felt the most fulfilled. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah, right. Mm. Yep. Yeah, yes, yes. Angelina Danae: And so I think, you know, I think even about our strategy days, like you, all of these like little bursts of energy, ⁓ that's like where you excelled versus like, Hey, we have to spend a week working on this one thing. You would like, you would put it off and put it off and put it, you know, it's like, you're like, and we had to come to a place where we, where we recognize like, Kristen, there are people on our team that they want the week long project and Kristen needs the like, Kristin Carver Smith: Mm. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. Angelina Danae: really intense four to five hours and then don't talk to her for a day. And it was, you know, that, I mean, that was thanks to a training that we did that we learned that we were able to have those conversations and talk with each other. But yeah, I mean, you would come out of, in my recollection, you would come out of almost every sales meeting being like, Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Angelina Danae: you would be fired up and you would be selling, you'd then sell the team on, or you would try to sell the team on. ⁓ And I always, remember just being so astounded. was like, Chris Lee can really see the potential in anybody. And... Kristin Carver Smith: Yep. Course. Course. I y for better for better or worse, y'all. For better or worse. Angelina Danae: Yeah, so yeah, I think I can recognize that, but I didn't realize that you had felt a tension of, I might not want to close this because I don't know how, like that's new information for me. And that's like really interesting to think back on that season with that in mind. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think ⁓ that was probably a start of so just so you know where we are in the timeline, we're probably what, mid twenty twenty two at this point. ⁓ I had shared this in season one, ⁓ in the sort of, you know, essay that I had read that unfortunately, in the fall of twenty twenty one, Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: we I'm a domestic violence survivor and we ⁓ encountered a DV situation ⁓ that re-traumatized me and and we were also very much in danger ⁓ and that was a Angelina Danae: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: I I mean honestly, Angelina, sometimes I'm like, I I don't know how much of that I communicated to you all, communicated, you know, ⁓ with the team and how much I was trying to like protect to because how much sharing is too much sharing. I think that was something we were always trying to figure out what the line was for the new fashion co was like we wanted transparency, we wanted openness, we wanted to be able to like, hey, if you know. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: If your period is absolutely devastating today and you can't do it, you can't do it. We want this to be the place where you could say that, share that, ⁓ and not be judged for it and not be penalized and, you know, take the time off that you needed and Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: ⁓ I think that also pertained to mental health, you know, if sometimes we would I feel like, you know, in hindsight, we would have some of those conversations and would talk about like I'm need I'm I'm not doing well right now. Like I might need a minute or something. And so, you know, for me Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Thank you. Kristin Carver Smith: When I talk about some of these cracks, this was a personal crack that was showing up professionally too, right? Because now I'm in a place and I'm saying this and I'm sharing this honestly so candidly because I want anybody who's listening to you know to know that, you know, again, when you're in that type of situation, and for me, I I was absolutely in a place of truly navigating what's called post-traumatic stress disorder or PTSD. And Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: I, you know, in hindsight, I wish I would have gotten help at that time and sought out, you know, a therapist. ⁓ instead, I was in survival mode and I had, you know, told myself that I didn't have time to get help because I'm so busy with this business. I'm so busy with it. I can't get help right now, you know. ⁓ and so the arrival of 2022, which is where we're at kind of in this time of the arrival of 2022, is looking like I am desperately personally trying to move from the situation that my husband and I are in. And I'm also, again, trying to continue to lead and grow this business and do the work and make sure we have great results and sell new work and you know all of those things at the same time and and try to do it well and still try to, you know, show up for the team and all of the things. ⁓ and by Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: You know, we we did finally get good news that we were relocating in April of 2022. And I was like, or actually in February 2022, and I was like, praise God for delivering us from this place. ⁓ and I thought, like, I thought like, we're gonna be okay now. And like professionally, I'm cool. This is gonna be all right. ⁓ and that wasn't the case. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think, you know, think it, ⁓ watching you go through that, you, in my recollection, you would, you shared, ⁓ you know, what was happening and that you were, that it was scary and it was unsafe. but I don't think you shared. how much you personally, like how much it was impacting your mental health. But I remember, what I remember at that time is that you worked even harder, that you like dug into the work. you did such a good job of giving so much permission, genuine permission, no strings attached to people like take the day off, log off early, take care of yourself. But we didn't see that from you very often. Kristin Carver Smith: Yes. Yeah, and I think if you all have listened to our conversation with Sarah Stanisai in season one, Sarah provides just such incredible and she does it with humor, which is what I love about her, 'cause, you know, I think, you know, ⁓ Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: Both Sarah and I and Angelina, I feel like this goes for you too. A lot of times we cope through using some of our humor skills here. ⁓ but Sarah talks about of just there were so many times that you know she was in the thick of things as well. And she ⁓ remembers, you know, opening ⁓ an old computer and seeing all of the like half-started documents and just that like moment of being like, ⁓ Angelina Danae: Yeah. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: Man, you were hurting. Like, ⁓ man, you were. And I think for some of our listeners and viewers, you know, maybe that is something that you also ⁓ sort of default to is that it's hard and I don't have time to deal with it. I don't have time because I think we deep down, ⁓ the fear is that by facing it. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: by unearthing it, having to sit and look at the facts, that it's going to be so horrific or emotional that it might put you out for a minute. And you're like, I I I barely have time for like the happy stuff. So I definitely don't have time to be laid up or laid out. I don't have time for that. And so, you know, I think ⁓ Angelina Danae: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, to eat a meal. Yup. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: again this is this is one of those we're sharing this story and I've I said this in you know our ⁓ first episode of this season is that you know sharing this story And this helping you all to live a more just and joyful life. And we'll start talking about when just and joyful arrived on the scene. But living a more just and joyful life that we can be focused on doing that for everybody else. But if we don't do it for ourselves, the world is actually not a more just and joyful place. Angelina Danae: Yep. Kristin Carver Smith: And that's the antithesis of what we're trying to do. And so I think it's cute that I w I wanted so bad to, you know, make sure everybody else was good, but that I I didn't Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: believe that I deserved that, you know, for myself. And that if you are a leader, that is going to bleed into and even if you're not a leader, right? Even if you're a friend, you know, even if you're a mom, a dad, a cousin, a s ⁓ you know, a sister, you you're a an advocate, right? It's like if you do not take care of you, and Cece Jones Davis talked about this in season one too, right? It's like we Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: do have to care for ourselves in order to be able to care well for other people. Angelina Danae: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, it's such a hard. Like, I feel like a lot of times that's something you have to learn through experience, which is really unfortunate. But it's, when I'm thinking back to that time, I'm just like, I got emotional because I just feel so much compassion for for ourselves and especially for you that it's just, you know. It was this impossible situation, like what what would it have looked like? Kristin Carver Smith: Amen. Yeah. Angelina Danae: for you a year into building a business to potentially, you know, log off and go take care of yourself. And you made a call that you thought was the right call at the time. And maybe it's not that it was right or wrong, but that it was just different levels of outcomes. yeah, I'm just like really feeling a lot of compassion when I think back to 2021 and 2022 us. Kristin Carver Smith: Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm. Yeah. Yeah, me too. And I know it wasn't just hard on me. You were also walking through quite a bit at the time. Angelina Danae: Yeah, I was depressed. Yeah, I was depressed. ⁓ And I think, you know, for me, the depression was I, as a creative person, I've always thought that I would be using Kristin Carver Smith: I mean we're laughing, but yes. Angelina Danae: my talents and my skills to write my own story and to write and not, not, you know, when I say my own stories, not necessarily just memoir, but the stories that I've been wanting to tell. And, ⁓ you know, my whole career, I've worked as a writer, but it was always for other people. And so on the face of it, that looks, that looks like it's great, like a dream come true, but I would end the day and have nothing left for my own work. And so Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yep. Mm. Angelina Danae: I got, I call it soul sick. Like I was just, I was sick in my soul because I had no, even if I had time, I had no energy left. No creative energy left to tell or write or play around with my own words, my own stories. Cause I spent it all at work for other people. Yeah. And that, and so, Kristin Carver Smith: Hm. Mm. Yeah. For others. Which I have to say, thank you for doing that. Really, thank you for doing that. And if you know, I know we we we had really incredible clients. And if they did not say this to you enough, I thank you for taking the creative gift that you have and doling it out. Angelina Danae: Hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: so generously to everybody that we worked with and Angelina Danae: Hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: You know, I think my hope too is I don't know, maybe some of them are even listening to this episode right now and they're like, you know what, I probably just need to send Angelina a note right now to say, like, thank you so much for what you did on my behalf or what you poured out. Because I recognize that in you pouring out here, it meant that you didn't have quite the same, you know, you didn't have anything left in your cup for you. And I know that that would not be any of there, because again, we had some really amazing clients. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: And I know that that would not be their intention for you either, right? Is that you gave them everything and you got nothing. Angelina Danae: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that was the, that was the thing that was so hard. kept being like, what the is wrong with you? You're, know, if you look at our benefits, like we, I had Fridays off. I, you know, I had three weeks out of the year, every year that I could, you know, go and get lost in the woods. I had so much flexibility in how I worked and when I worked and, ⁓ Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Angelina Danae: And I was making good money, we had good benefits. I was like, what is wrong with you? But nothing left. And it was a really good lesson for me. It was a hard lesson, but it was a really good lesson for me to learn what my capacity actually looks like. And of coming to peace with the fact that, and quite frankly, I don't think really any of us are meant to work 40 hours a week. Kristin Carver Smith: No. Angelina Danae: to realize like I cannot work a nine to five job and be not sick in my soul and sometimes even physically sick. ⁓ And unfortunately that's the way so many of our workplaces are structured. But now, in this current season that I'm in, I get to choose how much work I take on. And I actually am well and I'm well creatively, I'm well physically, I'm well mentally. Kristin Carver Smith: Yes, yes. Angelina Danae: ⁓ so it was just, it was a, yeah, but you know, that's such a hard lesson to learn. it, and it, felt like you were saying, like I felt I've have at times I don't anymore, but I felt shitty where I was like, what is, why can't you just do this? Why can't you, you know, just why other people work 60, 70, 80 hour weeks and they're fine, which they probably aren't, but you know. Kristin Carver Smith: Woo can we can we can we give it up for that? She will I was like I was like the asterisk on that. If we could we'd italicize that sentence, okay? That's that's that would be the case. Angelina Danae: Yeah, yeah. And I was like, why can't you do this? And I just, I'm not, it's just not, I don't have it. And that's okay. Kristin Carver Smith: I think that's such a wonderful, wonderful note. Because I know that a lot of people are watching and listening to this right now and they have said to themselves, like, what's wrong with me? Why can't I just do this? Like that's like I know I'm like people have to have that thought so many times. Why can't I just do this? Like and and you know, in our case, the again, the shitty thing was that we we Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: had wonderful people like we worked alongside wonderful people we worked on behalf of wonderful people it was very rarely that they that it wasn't great now with it now with any business i will be clear I'm not gonna be out here you know rose colored glasses all the time there were a couple that suck through the cracks you know it happens and that is such a it's it's a Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. They weren't asked. Absolutely. Kristin Carver Smith: You know, our heart goes out right now to the people who are like, I've been in a good job with good people, I've been in a good relationship, getting good things, you know, and and to still feel like part of you, it's it's like it feels like there's a part of you that's betraying yourself. You know, like something's off, something's wrong. And it feels like there's no amount of pushing through. There's no amount of that's gonna like that's gonna Angelina Danae: Yep. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: fix what feeling is happening down here in the gut, or as you said, soul sickness. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so funny, you know what you said about our clients, like none of us, none of them were asking us to sacrifice our wellbeing for the sake of their work. None of them, you know, and Kristin Carver Smith: They would be devastated. I'm sure I I know right now this episode is gonna go live and I'm gonna have some of them in my inbox. Like, are y'all kidding me? Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: Kristen, you are working because that's the type of people that they are. Like truly. Like they that's that's who they were. And I think sometimes that even that would add to the like, because they're so wonderful, I want to go even harder for them. I wanna see them do the you they gotta be up here because they're just the absolute best. And let me just I'll just put in a few more hours. I'll just go even harder. I'll just push. Angelina Danae: Yes. Yes. Absolutely. 100%. It's just so funny because so many of them were in the work of making. We ran them all through the Just and Joyful filter and their work was literally aligned with that. And so if they had seen what we was doing. Yeah, it's it's just really, it's just interesting, but it, you know, I think given where we both came from, especially the agency world and you your beginning as a publicist, it, that's the way we were trained. It was like, you pound the pavement. You don't, you work, you do whatever it takes and you keep going and going and you don't rest and you're not, you're on vacation. You're not truly off. You got to be reachable. got to, you know, so it just, that's, we were steeped in that. it. Kristin Carver Smith: Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Angelina Danae: Of course we're going to, even as we're trying to do something differently, we did do so many things differently, but the approach to the work was still a little bit old fashioned. Kristin Carver Smith: We absolutely did. Mm-hmm. Yes, it was. And and again, old fashioned for us for sure. And, you know, isn't that I think again, this is where we kind of start the descent. And it's, you know, I said at the top of this episode that this is about the fall of the new fashion co. And it was ⁓ it was slow, like it was a slow burn. ⁓ Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: Dare I even say insidious, you know, of it it was so the awareness of the descent, like when I was like, ⁓ shit, some's gonna, we we're gonna have to do something. That felt sudden. But it's like again, in hindsight, as we're talking, I mean, you all are hearing in real time, as we're talking about these things, you all can start to see like Angelina Danae: Hmmmm Yes. Kristin Carver Smith: ⁓ yeah, I could see like this makes sense. And you're talking about a rise, but it kind of feels like it was like a like you know, a little up and down. If you could see my fingers right now, they're that's a it's a little jagged, okay? It's it's like some it is a range. You got some fourteeners, you got some eights. So, you know, all all of that is is in there. And ⁓ what's interesting is that, you know, Angelina Danae: That's a mountain range. Kristin Carver Smith: We told you in the last episode when we were talking about the rise and the beginnings of the new fashion co that we would kind of embrace this like the only place old fashioned belongs is in your glass. And ⁓ which I'm I just love saying in like such a key, that's cute. ⁓ and what had really started to percolate for us, and Angela, I I honestly I'll have to go back and like look through my notes of when Justin Joyful actually arrived on the scene. Angelina Danae: Yeah. you Kristin Carver Smith: Of like if it was 2021, if it was actually into 2022, it it I feel like it started emerging and bubbling up in 2022. I could be wrong. ⁓ of that actually becoming like real language. I'm repeating it, I'm talking about it all the time. I'm starting to talk about how like that needs to become the new filter for clients of like, are they trying to create a more just and joyful world? And if so, how? Right. ⁓ Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: And there was this like, I feel like all of us kind of rallied around, or I don't know, I say all, but I'm like you and me. ⁓ to be clear, I should also be clear. So when we ⁓ Avenue Fashion Co, because some of you are probably wondering, well, how many employees were there? So and with myself included, we had five. We had a handful of contractors that we would also work with, and then we also had a Angelina Danae: Hahaha Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: you know, finance company who would handle all of our accounting, billing, ⁓ projections, all of that sort of stuff. ⁓ so that's kind of like what our world sort of started to look like. ⁓ but I feel like we really latched on to this like, yes. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: We it and and I feel like for me, I'm like that has been my person personal mission, even if I didn't always have those specific words for it throughout my entire life. It's like I want to create a more just and joyful world. And you know, when we started the New Fashion Co., I think that that Angelina Danae: Hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: the previous iteration of that language was you can use your business to do good right where you are. Right. And it feels like we started because we were going through personal and professional crises, we really started to see actually it's not even just about using your business to do good right where you are. It's like your life. It's like live actually living this just and joyful life. And I think Angelina Danae: Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: It's been cool to see how something that bubbled up in a season where we were drying out. It's been cool to see how that has continued to not only stick, but how it continues to blossom and expand into something that is so juicy and s you know, such a Angelina Danae: Mmm. Yep. Kristin Carver Smith: Guide for us ⁓ and a yardstick for like, is this thing, personally or professionally, is this thing just enjoyed for? Angelina Danae: Mm hmm. Yeah, and even as you're talking, I'm just struck by how we created language for a need that we personally had. You know, and we did measure ourselves by it to some extent. ⁓ But I don't know that we extended it to our personal private lives. You know? And that's just so like, again, I'm just feeling so much compassion for us because it's like, we really did, you know, they say, build the thing that you need or build the thing that you want. Like we did, we just forgot to actually apply it all the way. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To ourselves. Yeah. And there were a lot of painful lessons along the way. I'm not gonna delve into all of them right here. Maybe we will in future episodes, but you know, we there were hirings, there were firings, there were layoffs, there were times where we paid tens of thousands of dollars and did not see those things return. ⁓ Angelina Danae: ourselves. Mm-hmm. Missed builds. Kristin Carver Smith: There there were there were people who didn't pay us. I mean, tens of thousands of dollars didn't pay us. ⁓ that was tough. That was really hard. And we we showed and to your point, we showed a lot of grace to other people. And we showed grace to one another. None of us did it really well for ourselves, you know. Angelina Danae: tens of thousands. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: And so as Angelina and I were thinking about what season two was gonna look like for Justin Joyful, one we could not Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: continue to talk to you all without telling you the story because so many of you are so curious about it. And I get it. I I mean it makes total sense. ⁓ and there's a lot, there's a lot of hard won wisdom and a lot of lessons that we're still gleaning insight from from, you know, this this season, but I think as we were from the new fashion co season, but as we were kind of talking about what season two looks like and where Justin Joyful is going to go, not just the podcast, but as a whole Angelina Danae: Thank you. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: lot more. More on that to come. We Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: We were s just so excited that it's unfolding in the way that it's unfolding and also to be able to, you know, look back and go, Okay, like actually we loved what we did in season one. We loved everybody that we talked to. And it was so I I think for me, you know, I can only speak for myself, but just ⁓ it felt like I missed being in this space. I missed showing up and having conversations with people. And to me, this podcast is still very much a conversation, whether it's between, you know, one of our guests or it's between, you know, us and you. Like that's it, it is a conversation. It is an actual dialogue. So it felt so good to to show up and and have those conversations again. But it also felt like we didn't just want to be singularly focused on mental health. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: And just be a mental health podcast because in the same way that we were like just and do just and joyful does not apply just to business. It's about our it's about our personal lives, like it's about our life, life as a as a whole, as a like an entire pie and not just one piece of it. We were like, this podcast has to continue to get bigger, and we're still gonna go inside the minds. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: Of the people who are living just and joyful lives. Because one, we've had a front row seat to them for a long time now. ⁓ and two, the the the mind and our mental health is such an important part of why we do the things that we do and why we you know, so we're gonna continue to do that. ⁓ and that's where this season is gonna keep going. That's where this podcast is gonna keep going, is it's gonna be about Angelina Danae: Okay. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: Trying to live a just and joyful life, not just professionally, but personally too, and in all the ways and with all the things. And ⁓ you know, we talked to Sarah Stanisai in season one. Sarah is an incredible ⁓ therapist and ⁓ has an amazing ⁓ practice, and we're gonna have Sarah back on. And Sarah had talked in her episode about You know, if you ⁓ don't want to do any work on yourself, definitely don't start a business. And ⁓ and we're gonna have her back on to talk about Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: Why, as you all have probably seen and heard today, is that building something, again, whether it's a brand, it's a business, it's a home, it's a life, like will butt up against everything you thought you knew. It will it will like it shines lights on things that you're like, I don't want to touch that. I haven't wanted to touch that in a long time. ⁓ and it forces, I feel like it just like it. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: it pulls the stuff out of the shadow, so to speak. And you have a choice of like, do I keep pushing this down? Do I do even more work to get through it? Or, you know, whatever your specific ⁓ Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: tr you know, ⁓ what's the word that I'm looking here, Angelina? Crutch. That's what it is. So it's like whatever your specific crutch is, right? For me, it was work. ⁓ and so I I can't wait for us to have that conversation because again, I think it's going to be helpful, you know, for some so many reasons. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, as I'm as I think about just like what you were saying and you know how the cracks and the web of the cracks. When you know, when you think back to the actual end of TNF. What like how would you describe? Just in a sentence or two, like what it was like. when it like, you because like you said, was this, it was the, you know, the cracks started showing in 2022. And then in 2023, it was kind of like, you know, some of those layoffs were happening. And, and I think it was this culmination of like, we were all so tired and we all said, like, we never want a year like 2022 again. And then the more we kept pulling back, the more it, you know, I remember you kind of saying for the first time, like, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Angelina Danae: And all of this was kind of building to this kind of defining moment at the end of December, beginning of January, where you had to make a call. And I just, wonder, when you think about the actual end, like how do you describe that? Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Yeah. I think ⁓ unfortunately I'm gonna spend more than a sentence or two, so but ⁓ I I will I will try to keep it brief. ⁓ I think yes, we knew that there was I do feel like again, there was this decline and it was happening as the world was also starting to pull back. Interest rates were starting to go the first rate hike, I think, was July of 2022. It it felt like July of 2022. Everybody started to hold their breaths a little bit. Okay, we don't know what's gonna happen, what's going on with the world. Like there was this great expansion that had happened in response to this global pandemic and everything being shut down. It felt like the doors swung wide open, everybody poured out of them, and then all of a sudden it was like, okay, there was this kind of contraction starting to Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: happen. There was a little bit of a, you know, again, ⁓ holding of the breath. I feel like throughout 2022, 2023, it felt like things were gonna kind of like normalize ish. ⁓ but it also felt like again, just for me personally, I'm like the damage was done for how much had happened so quickly. and in twenty twenty three, yes, I finally was honest and was like, I'm not sure I want to do this anymore. I I'm Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: And I do remember having that, like actually finally verbalizing this feeling of I'm not sure I want to go sell any more business. Are you and I I remember bringing that to the team and saying, Do you know what this means though? If I don't go sell more business, are you all okay with this? Because what this means is there may not be more that comes in and we either have to keep renewing what we renew or or what we currently have, or we might have to look at it doesn't work like this anymore. And to start having those conversations. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: And ⁓ I do look back on that time and I personally I was wrecked because my identity was so wrapped up in CEO, founder, building a business, being this rock star publicist. Everything was tied to ⁓ you know, everything for me again was just my identity was found in work. And maybe you can relate if you're listening to this. Maybe you and I I don't think that's just a that that's a that that's exclusive to me. I think our culture has also sold a lot of women, and especially Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: like if you were I graduated college in twenty thirteen and you know if you're someone that was like in the you know late two thousands, early twenty tens, this bill of goods that we were sold was you go to work, you grind it out, you work hard, you climb that corporate ladder, you get the bag, you know, all the th it was like that was the bill of goods that we were sold. And we're gonna have this big beautiful life and all that if we go do those things. And that was falling apart. It has fallen apart. Everybody's realizing, especially now, this is this is this one, nah, this ain't it. Right. And so ⁓ I that Angelina Danae: Yep. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: dismantling and the breakdown and all of that sort of stuff is kind of happening in 2024. And I do remember telling you all, you know, in January of 2024, you know, ⁓ we one of our largest clients, we had worked with them for a couple years, ⁓ was not going to be renewing for 2024. They'd had a leadership change and everything was kind of on pause. And that was like the that really was the beginning of the end. And I told you all that. And that was a really Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: I was so I was scared to say it, but I remember that it seemed like it was a and I could just I mean I could be making this up. This is right, like it's my recollection, but it seemed like it was a relief. Not it seemed the way that it was received, it seemed like it was disappointing because we all kind of knew what that meant of where things would go. ⁓ but Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: It seemed like a relief in that everyone on the team at that time. And at that point, again, we had gone through. So there had been ⁓ you know, we had lost team members, we had laid off a team member. And I think at that point, Angelina, there were just three of us standing. And so the three of us were like, Yeah, we're actually really ready for this break. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think relief is a good way of putting it because I had personally kind of, you know, I remember in November and I talked to you about this of, was like, I think in 2024, I got to go. And so when this happened, I was like, for me, it felt like relief because I was like, I don't have to resign to my friend and CEO. I get to potentially leave with her. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Angelina Danae: And so that, like for me, it just, felt like such, and some of it was cowardice on my end. was like, ⁓ I don't have to make the call. It's being made for me. ⁓ But yeah, it just, ⁓ it felt just, yeah, like relief. Like we don't have to strive anymore. can just, we can, cause we could have fought it. You could have gone and gotten business easy. ⁓ But I think it just, we all kind of. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. We could have. Yeah. Angelina Danae: what 2023 had built towards of like, all agreeing like never again 2022. And then still like getting to the middle of 2023 and we had, you know, dropped, we pulled back, but then still feeling like, I felt like the more we pulled back, the more we were like, ⁓ we really, we really don't want, you know, and, and just, following that and being honest and just having these ongoing conversations. I think that really, ⁓ I think that's something that we did well during the fall of like, Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Angelina Danae: That sounds so dramatic, but it kind of was. ⁓ Kristin Carver Smith: I mean, it when it happened, it happened. Like it was like and yeah, it was like all of a sudden. I I do think I will say this is really, really important because I'm like, ooh, I don't want y'all to get please do not get it twisted here. So we it's not like people stop wanting to work with us. And when I s when I say, you know, I'm I'm not talking about just clients that we already had, but we had requests for new business. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. It was like Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: in twenty twenty two, in twenty twenty three, in twenty twenty four. And it was I chose to say no. Angelina Danae: Yep. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: I chose to say like we're full, we're not, we're not currently accepting new clients. Let me refer you over to people. And so, you know, I I am proud of that. Like I am proud of at least having the discernment and the wherewithal to I like, okay, I recognize that I'm at a place where this is not working out. I don't exactly know what the future is gonna hold or how how we walk this out. D are we headed toward a closure of some sort? But I do know that I'm gonna be in my integrity. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Okay. Kristin Carver Smith: Of when I know something and I I'm not gonna be able to do this and and do it again, well and and from that place of like, you know, I keep using that word integrity, but it's like that was so big for us. And it's like I couldn't say yes to representing people with integrity anymore. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: And I remember even in 2024 when we did decide, okay, like it's time talking to some clients and saying we gotta have a conversation because we're no longer gonna provide public relations services. And man, and and some of them, you know, we were closer to and we had some pretty, really, you know, pretty honest conversations with them about it. And I remember having the distinct thought that people really are as good as you hope they are. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: And that was boy, like we were met with so much compassion. And so I just want to say this to you. If you're watching and you're listening, you know, and you're like, I feel like, you know, Angelina, you just said the ⁓ I felt like a cowardice because the decision was made for me. ⁓ you know, if you feel like you're in this place right now where you're like, Angelina Danae: Hmmmm Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: I'm gonna have to say the hard thing. I'm gonna I'm I actually am gonna have to throw in the towel and have a conversation about the towel throwing in and I don't know how I'm going to be met. I would encourage you to consider. Now it does not mean that it's like a guarantee, but would you consider that you might actually be met with something that's as good as you hoped? Like that someone might actually meet you with grace and compassion and understanding and all of that. Cause nine times out of ten, we're just going in thinking they're gonna yell at us. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: They're going to be pissed at us. They're going to be disappointed in us. And all of that's totally possible and on the table. But I that changed me. Those conversations completely changed me. And it's changed the way that I even have difficult conversations now. Cause I'm like, what if it actually goes better than I thought? What if they actually are as good as I hope? Right. Angelina Danae: Thank Yes, yes. There's ⁓ a, I was dealing with a difficult personal situation a year ago and ⁓ I was talking to a friend about it and she said this beautiful thing where she said, how about you ⁓ leave a sliver of possibility open for surprise. Kristin Carver Smith: Mm. Mm. Angelina Danae: She's like, what if you're surprised by this? And she said, and I ended up writing a poem about it of like a sliver of surprise ⁓ because it was so profound. like, don't have to, your whole pie doesn't have to be, it's gonna go great. But she's like, what if you just left like one little sliver of possibility to be surprised? And ⁓ that situation, it surprised me. Like the response that I got was, Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Angelina Danae: completely different, but if I had, you know, that reframing of this possibility to be surprised at the outcome was just, yeah, I love that. Kristin Carver Smith: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I'll This has been a longer ep, y'all. I know, and I appreciate you all hanging with us. But I think, you know, anytime we talk about, you know, what the what the end of a season looks like, it's gonna take a minute. So I I appreciate you hanging with us. But, you know, Angelina, to go back to the question that you asked is what is what did the end actually look like? ⁓ there was a, you know, this language comes from my dear friend and ⁓ Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: coach Dr. Julia Calangelo and and she talked about a sunset. And ⁓ I loved that language for the New Fashion Co. is that there was a sunsetting that was taking place for the company. There was also a sunsetting taking place for me personally. And it was so hard to accept that this is where we had sort of ended up. Angelina Danae: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: And that, you know, again, sometimes I would be like, I started this and I had a bunch of people around me and it feels like I'm ending it and I'm by myself. And that was not the case, obviously. Right. ⁓ and I think that I was very I knew as much as I wanted to throw everything against the wall, that the New Fashion Co. in its Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: current form, it's iteration, was done. It was complete. And I did not that didn't mean that I was, I didn't have peace about like, let me pull the website down, let me, you know, release the the trademarks and all of the like let me do all of those things. ⁓ I just was like it doesn't need to be touched. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: And there doesn't there I actually didn't even feel like there needs to be an announcement about it. Like we're suddenly closed for business, you know? I was just like, it's done, and I have to let it sit. So it kind of felt like ⁓ locking the door to a house and not knowing when you're gonna come back and see it. And you don't know. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: ⁓ one you don't know if you're gonna even come back in the first place. You haven't sold it, you haven't done it. You know it's there, it's sitting there. But you don't know if you do return to it, if it's if it's still gonna be standing. And ⁓ yeah. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Hmm. That's a, that's, love that imagery. You didn't sell the house, but you locked it up and you said. Kristin Carver Smith: We cleaned out all the furniture, everything, like it was there was an estate sale. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: Like, you know, come get your come get the trinkets. You know, everything must go. But the house remains. Angelina Danae: Yep. Yeah, yeah. and it gets to be returned to if and when. And if not, you still sit in there on the land, like you got some memories. So, you know, now here we are over two years later from that sunset. ⁓ How are you feeling about the house? Kristin Carver Smith: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. House feels good. I think that I'm excited to talk about in future episodes what it has looked like to return to the house. It was really unexpected. It was really unexpected. And like I said, I honestly I did not I think what's so surprising is that ⁓ Angelina Danae: others. Kristin Carver Smith: Again, to keep going with this analogy, I had visitors, but I wasn't there. Angelina Danae: Hmmmm Kristin Carver Smith: So it was like the visitors would bring me back to the house. You know? Hey, are you still hey, are you still there? Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: I don't know. House is still there. I don't know. Like Angelina Danae: Yeah. Hmm. I think it's also possible. I think it's also possible that the house sat on more land than you thought and that there's potentially some new buildings going up. Kristin Carver Smith: So so yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Yes. And we get to we get to talk to y'all about that too. So you know, I my continued hope with this podcast is that I think about so many people who have been honest and real and have so willingly like opened up and and shared their stories of Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: ⁓ you know, tribulations and triumph and all the nuances and everything in between. And I hope that this podcast, ⁓ you know, is that for so many people that are listening. And it's, you know, nobody's nobody's making us tell you all these things. We, you know, and and I I don't even feel that we owe it to you all. ⁓ it's Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: It feels like being of service in some ways. Like it's both feels like a joy to go back and trace and do it without shame and do it with curiosity and do it with compassion, as Angelina's said here so beautifully so many times today. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: But it's like to go back and trace it to get a better understanding of how might I want to move into this land that's much bigger than I thought it was. And, you know, and I hope that our story and that Justin Joyful can continue to serve as a Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: you know, as the as the inspo or even sometimes as the cautionary tale ⁓ that you need in your own life as you're discerning what it is that you're supposed to put your hands to and how you're supposed to create a more joyful, a just and joyful life wherever you are and in whatever corner of the world is is yours to keep. Angelina Danae: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yes and amen. Kristin Carver Smith: So we ⁓ on our next episode, we're gonna chat with the incredible Sarah Sanizai again. And I I I ⁓ I mean Sarah knows I've told her a million times, I'm like, yo, we just gonna have to keep having you back. ⁓ so yeah, so we are gonna have Sarah back to talk about this. Angelina Danae: Yep, recurring guests. Kristin Carver Smith: being con when when your professional life reveals a bunch of stuff personally that you are just not interested in and what do you do with that and how do you move through that. We're gonna talk with her about that. And ⁓ you know, perhaps throughout the season, we'll start to share a little bit more about ⁓ what we discovered on that plot of land that the New Fashion Co house sat on. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Mmm. We haven't even explored every acre yet. But let me tell you, some of the acres we've been on, some of the acres I've been invited to come visit, it's pretty juicy. Kristin Carver Smith: Mm. Cool. It's very cool. We are thankful ⁓ for you hanging with us this long. ⁓ this is the part where I'm supposed to say like and subscribe. So like and subscribe. and if you are not already signed up for our Justin Joyful Angelina Danae: please. Kristin Carver Smith: email newsletter, which is so beautiful and actually worth your time and worth occupying space in your inbox. And I say that as someone who has very limited space in her inbox these days. make sure that you are subscribed and signed up for that. And cannot wait to see you all on the next episode. Send us DMs, send us messages. If this episode resonated with you, what resonated with you, and if there's other topics where you're like, hey, y'all said this thing, but you didn't. I'm like really curious about that. Let us know because again, I think there's a, you know, ⁓ a beauty in us sharing and answering questions, especially if it helps you, you know, avoid falling into some of the same or going down some of the same rabbit holes. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kristin Carver Smith: ⁓ you know that that we went down. ⁓ we want to save you some time. We want to save you what hurt we can. All of us are going to experience it and it's it's necessary for us to keep going and growing. ⁓ And also, you know, we want you to see what's possible. Like we did a lot of there's so much of the new fashion co of like I that we look back on and it's like, I had no idea that was possible. But we did it. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kristin Carver Smith: I didn't know we could reach that revenue every month, but we did it. I didn't know that we could land this specific place, but we did it. I didn't know that we could do cycle syncing stuff, but we did it. Like there were so many things that's like, no, we did that. We did that. So thank you so much for being along this journey with us. And we are so committed to helping to first creating just and joyful lives for ourselves and helping you live a just and joyful life too. Angelina Danae: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Put your own oxygen mask on before you try to put it on others. Kristin Carver Smith: The airlines say it for a reason. So all right, we'll catch y'all here next time. Angelina Danae: They're right.