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Inside Interventions: How Drew Horowitz Helps Families Save Lives · Finding New Waters

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  I get to a point of my interventions where I say, you
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  know, you're, you're an adult, you know, you have a decision to
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  make. And if your decision is you're
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  going to move on your plan, we'll, we'll have to accept
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  that. You know, in the meantime, I'm
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  going to work with your family on how do they accept that.
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  And I can't guarantee you things are going to look the way they
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  look prior to this intervention. But if that's a plan you want to
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  make and you want to do, then I would suggest you proceed on
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  that. Welcome back everybody to
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  another episode of Finding New Waters.
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  My name is Bea Reeves. I'm the Director of Business
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  Development here at New Waters Recovery in Raleigh, sitting
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  here with our CEO, Justin McClendon.
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  Welcome, Justin. And our very special guest today
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  is Mr. Drew Horowitz of Drew Horowitz and Associates.
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  He is the founder and owner of Drew Horwitz and Associates.
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  Welcome, Drew. Thanks man, happy to be here.
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  Well, we're glad you're here and thank you for being here out of
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  the gate. I just want to say we've had
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  great experiences working with you recently.
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  We just had a super last minute complicated transport.
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  It happened fast and done right and it was it was we exceeded
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  all expectations. So thank you there.
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  Tell us what what all what all do y'all do?
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  Yeah. So we've, we've been open and
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  operating since the start of 2014, so about 11 years now.
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  And you know, we've we've, you know over those years kind of
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  dabbled in a few different kind of non traditional recovery
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  services. What we find ourselves doing
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  these days are, you know, a few services that we just believe we
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  are true professionals and experts at.
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  And so instead of doing, you know, 20 different services, you
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  know, we've really, you know, focused on a clinical
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  intervention, a complex transport type of case and
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  companion services for both those with a substance use
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  disorder or a primary mental health disorder.
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  And really just honing in on those three service lines and
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  doing them, you know, with a high level of expertise and
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  confidence and professionalism. And we feel like, you know,
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  we've really gotten to a place where we can deliver a service
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  in a capacity that really helps us stand out, you know, in our
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  in our industry and, and just be, you know, be able to act
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  quickly and in a timely manner and, you know, deliver services
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  that are top notch. So we're grateful for the
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  opportunity to help so many individuals, you know, cross
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  that starting line of recovery and just be part of their story
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  and also simultaneously be an extension of a family and, and
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  of a treatment center and just be being part of that.
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  That, you know, Family Services is something that, you know, we
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  just pride ourselves on and we love it.
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  And we just, again, I'm grateful everyday that I get to do the
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  work that I get to do. Awesome.
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  And before we started you, we were kind of talk about what we
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  might talk about and you said you had had were the recipient
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  of an intervention at some point.
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  Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, In my 20s, I was in New
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  York City and I was, you know, trying to make a life for myself
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  and, you know, was very caught up in in substances, drugs and
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  alcohol and very easy in that city to, you know, fall victim
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  to that. And the accessibility and, you
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  know, sort of the acceptance of drugs is, is, you know, very
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  prevalent there. And, you know, I found myself in
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  a situation where, you know, like many of us, you know, just
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  highly dependent, unable to function and really unable to
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  stop or or discontinue or get myself any type of help.
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  So, you know, my family, you know, by the grace of God
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  realized that this was a situation over their head.
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  They reached out to a professional.
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  And, you know, on a morning of June in January 2008, my, my
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  father, my brothers, you know, arrived in my apartment in New
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  York City on the Upper West Side.
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  And, you know, I knew right away that this was, it was time, you
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  know, it was time for me to do something I couldn't do on my
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  own that I know I needed to do. And that's a lot of what
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  intervention is. People get confused.
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  They think intervention is, you know, we're going to sell them
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  and force them and convince them.
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  But the majority of the time, the people were interfacing with
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  that moment are just like me, where it's like, I know this is
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  what I need, but I know for sure I wasn't going to initiate it.
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  And that having these people here provide some clarity and
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  confirmation that now's the time.
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  And so the relief I felt was actually pretty substantial.
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  And, you know, and next thing I know, I'm on a flight and I'm
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  headed to treatment. And, you know, the story just
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  keeps getting better, like it does for most of us.
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  Of it, yeah. I mean, what you just said
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  about, you know, when I tell my story, I mean, I, I was, it was
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  about 12 hours from an intervention.
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  And I kind of felt the stark circling and and to borrow a
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  phrase for maybe like the political climate when we have
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  the people, kind of when the, when the jig is up and it's kind
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  of it's like a permission structure to get help.
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  I didn't have the the capacity, the the balls, the courage,
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  whatever word is to ask for it. Sure.
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  Yeah. And, and that's so common that
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  that's what happens, you know, when you first walk in and you
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  approach the person, you know, I'll sometimes say, you know, do
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  you know, do you know why we're here?
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  And they do. They do know why we're there.
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  It's not a surprise, which is which is good.
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  I'd be nervous if they didn't know why we're there.
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  And so they say, yeah. And I say, well, you know, this
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  is, you know, your family reached the point where they
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  just, you know, didn't know how to help you.
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  And so they contacted me and we're here today, you know,
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  hoping that you'll see there's an opportunity here.
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  And you deserve that. You know, you deserve a better
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  existence. You know, there's a guy in there
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  or a gal in there that you know, has a better quality of life
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  than this. And we believe you deserve an
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  opportunity for that, isn't it? Because that's something you're
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  willing to consider. And they, you know, they, the
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  outcomes are pretty good. You know, if you can deliver
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  that message with kindness and compassion and not triggering,
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  you know, that addiction that just wants to fight, if you can
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  deliver it in a way that's receivable, the responses are
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  really positive, you know, and, and the person will often times
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  say yes, but you know, what about this, what about, you
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  know, they have some standard logistical concerns.
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  And as long as you can kind of work through some of those
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  fears, you know, we're able to navigate people, you know, to
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  get that help. And yeah, it's just, it's just
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  an imperative service that sadly has a lot of stigma tied to it,
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  you know, because I think it's I think it's misunderstood, you
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  know, the and, and, and maybe maybe for good reason, there's
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  maybe there's people that have created other models or, or done
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  it in ways that have changed our culture's mindset on it.
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  But a lot of people don't do intervention because they think
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  it's this big dramatic event or leveraging somebody for
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  treatment or forcing their arm where it's punitive And, and
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  really it's nothing like that, you know, So I think getting the
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  message out and making sure people understand that an
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  intervention done, especially with a highly trained, you know,
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  clinical individual is not going to leave everybody in a worse
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  situation than we did walking in.
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  And so I think that's that's a huge message that that I always
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  want to portray to the public. I think you're right and I could
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  be wrong about this, but I feel like most people, you know, that
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  I think of like the show intervention back and, you know,
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  whenever that was early thousands or something like
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  that, I think that's like people's idea of like, yeah,
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  it's like everybody huddles around, you know, everybody, you
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  know, maybe maybe they read letters, but it's like this
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  coercion of like you have to do this thing now, right?
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  Which would be very scary, I think for anybody.
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  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, and, and the last thing
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  you want to do is sort of trigger individuals to, you
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  know, we always, you know, to want to fight us.
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  You know, we want individuals who are struggling to realize
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  that we're your ally. You know, your addiction tells
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  us we're not your, that we are your enemy because we're
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  suggesting you get help, but we're not, You know, we are your
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  ally, your goals are the same goals we have for you.
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  You know, we just see something interfering that's preventing
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  you from getting to your goals. And so as long as it can be
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  done, you know, mutually and with respect, it can, it can be,
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  it can be effective. So I think like, you know,
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  stomping out the some of the stigma, Tate stigmatizing around
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  intervention. You know, I do a lot of talking
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  about it just like, just like I'm doing with you guys and with
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  providers and, and, and, you know, helping people understand
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  that, you know, we're not going to create this combative
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  punitive, you know, setting, you know, we're not going to put
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  your family through that. But I was looking at your
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  website and you've got I think 4 different modalities or models
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  listed. Will you?
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  Because our audience, we do have a lot of family members who are
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  that pre contemplative. So I need help maybe getting to
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  the point where they realized it's beyond their, you know, the
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  out of their purview at this point and are looking at, you
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  know, the kind of making a call to a person like you.
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  What are the differences in the in the models?
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  You know, I think it depends on the present presentation and
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  acuity of the person who needs help, right?
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  So if this is a person who's able to go to work everyday but
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  comes home and you know, drinks a liter of vodka versus is this
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  a person that's not working and just drinking, sleeping,
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  drinking, sleeping. I think you have two different
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  sort of presentations of individuals.
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  And so it's important for us to consult with the family and
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  figure out what what method is going to be more effective.
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  So as much as I love to make suggestions about the
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  methodology, it's really important the family tells us
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  about the characteristics and the personality of the person
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  we're intervening on, you know, knowing, knowing who they are as
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  a person. You know, we depend on them to
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  tell us if you do this, he's going to, he or she is going to,
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  you know, go nuts. If you approach it like this,
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  his personality or her personality is going to be more
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  accepting. So we work with the family, kind
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  of understand the severity. If this is a person that's
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  really, really acute and deep in their substance use, we really
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  have to come in, you know, sort of that that sort of surprise
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  ish model and let them know, you know, we, we didn't have a
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  choice. I mean, we could tell you all
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  day that we're talking to professionals and hoping to get
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  you help, but it won't really be effective.
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  So we had to come here today, you know, and somewhat of a
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  crisis, you know, to help you out of this, this hole you're
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  spinning in. And we really, we really got to
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  pull you out of this before, before it takes you any further.
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  And so, so, so for a situation like that is real, chronic and
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  acute, we're going to have to do that.
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  Well, someone who might be a little bit, you know, more
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  functional and vocational type of setting is able to work, is
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  able to engage a bit with the family, but clearly their
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  substance use is interfering with their livelihood and
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  relationships. You know, we might have a spouse
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  or a, or a, you know, friend or whatever, whatever the relation
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  is to the client to say, you know, we, we've reached out, we
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  spoke to professional and they offered us some suggestions on,
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  you know, how to enter a conversation with you or talk
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  about the idea of help and what that looks like.
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  Is that something you'd be willing to join with us and,
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  and, and you know, jump on a call or have a meeting and just
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  talk about the best way to work on this?
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  Because we are struggling. We are really uncertain of how
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  to help you and what to do. And we could really use a third
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  party to kind of guide us a little bit and navigate us
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  through sort of the next steps. And the reality is more times
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  than not, that person is actually willing to do it.
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  That person actually is willing to enter into a dialogue, into a
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  conversation and speak to us about, you know, what does this
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  mean? What is treatment?
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  And those are best case scenarios.
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  If the person's unwilling to do that, that actually is OK too,
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  because then we can go in with the traditional model and we can
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  say we really tried to engage you in this process and have you
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  be part of it. But, you know, you declined.
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  And so here we are today, you know, seeing if there's an
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  opportunity, you know, for us to come to an agreement.
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  And, you know, again, we had hoped that you'd be involved,
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  but you're not. So again, a lot of this depends
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  on the acuity, the person's willingness to kind of talk
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  about it. But I think what's important is
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  like probably similar to how you guys look at treatment, You
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  know, every case has to be looked at on an individual
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  basis. You know, what kind of trauma do
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  they have, what kind of substances are they using, How
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  serious is it? So we really look and determine,
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  you know, the course of action based on that.
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  Mentioned when you confront somebody or whether it's
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  Invitational or sort of surprise and then they kind of have that
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  willingness, but then they have roadblocks or what's the word
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  I'm looking for? Barriers to treatment barriers.
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  Yeah, yeah. What are the common barriers?
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  Yeah, You know, work. It's it's usually always work or
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  the barrier really is confusion around the illness of addiction,
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  you know, and not the fact that I can stop on my own and I can
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  treat my own situation. And so that's probably the
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  biggest one is the first and foremost the biggest obstacle I
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  ever face. And it's, it's constant is that
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  they don't disagree that the substance is causing challenges
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  in their life, but they disagree on the recommendation of help.
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  And so we don't, it's rare that I've done an intervention.
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  I, I can't think of anywhere the person is flat out said, I don't
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  use, like, I don't drink. I'm not an alcoholic.
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  I, I, I usually what we get is agree.
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  I could do better without it. Here's what I'm going to do.
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  I'm going to stop, you know, and they recommend a lower level of
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  care for themselves, like I'm going to see a therapist.
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  And so, you know, it's and I always say, you know, hey, I
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  appreciate that you're like that.
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  You recognize that, you know, and we all agree that there's a
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  common obstacle here in your life.
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  Great. And I also appreciate that
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  you're willing to do something about it.
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  And I'll just say honestly, you know, based on what I'm hearing
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  from your family, based on your situation, based on what I
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  taught as a professional, I have a lot of concerns about that
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  plan working. And here's why, you know, and
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  so, you know, it's it's a healthy conversation, but it's
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  definitely not a debate. You know, this is not a debate.
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  You know, I get to a point in my interventions where I say, you
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  know, you're, you're an adult, you know, you have a decision to
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  make. And if your decision is you're
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  going to move on your plan, we'll, we'll have to accept
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  that. You know, in the meantime, I'm
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  going to work with your family on how do they accept that?
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  And I can't guarantee you things are going to look the way they
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  look prior to this intervention. But if that's a plan you want to
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  make and you want to do, then I would suggest you proceed on
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  that. Your family and I are asking
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  that you consider a higher level of care because we feel like
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  that's what it's going to take for you to really get well.
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  And we don't want to take chances with your life because
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  you're a super important person and a lot of us depend on you.
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  And every day that you can't be the best version of yourself, we
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  lose out on it. We miss you, right?
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  So those are the kind of dialogues and comments that I
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  bring to intervention. And every time I challenge
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  somebody's, you know, belief or statement, it's always, it's
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  always followed by an empowering statement.
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  You know, I'm saying this because you are such a great
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  person and we miss you, you know, so instead of saying you
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  need help because you're an alcoholic, you know, that's very
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  kind of shame based and and punitive saying we want you to
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  get well so we can have you in our life.
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  And so that's what's a lot better.
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  This is where families go wrong, right?
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  They just don't know how to word it.
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  Right, interesting. My I just did this.
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  I was on a interviewed by a woman who's a therapist who
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  like, you know, it was a kind of a recovery story.
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  And she asked if one of my family member would tell, you
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  know, the family, somebody would tell their side of the story.
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  And my brother did. And I, she sent me the, the,
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  his, his recording. And one of the things that he
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  said and I hadn't thought of like this is when I was in that
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  last, you know, year, really last three or four months, he
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  said something to her. He said I told him that he was
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  no longer there anymore and that the person that everybody loved,
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  cool, funny bee was gone. And the and you know, he wasn't
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  as maybe loving in the way he said it to me.
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  I don't even really remember that, but he but but it makes
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  sense that hearing that that like the person missed me and
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  that that this bee had had for the time being vanished.
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  I think that had a huge effect on, Yeah.
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  Yeah, no, that, that is way more impactful, you know, and part of
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  the statements we give the families to read, if we are
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  going to read a letter, is drawing the difference between
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  the old healthy version of you and the current version of you.
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  Because for the person in their addiction, that pops out big
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  time because they know in their heart they're not the same
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  person, right. And so it's, it's very, it's a
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  very effective strategy. I could definitely see what's
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  the what's the saying? You get more with honey than you
• 17:28
  do with them. But right now, something like
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  that. But as you mentioned before, the
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  addiction wants to fight, right? So if you come in, guns a blaze
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  and it's just like, hey, these are all the things that are
• 17:38
  wrong and this is what we're going to do about it.
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  Yeah. I mean, I can only imagine how
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  that goes, right? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's
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  an illness that shames you and belittles you all the time.
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  And you know, that just can that that's what fuels your continued
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  use. And So what happens is when the
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  families add shame and guilt and and blame, all it's going to do
• 17:59
  is fuel the addiction. And so it's very
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  counterintuitive for them to come in with compassion and
• 18:05
  empathy and kindness because they're pissed.
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  And so you have to coach. Yeah, which is understandable.
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  They're pissed because their loved 1 isn't able to show up in
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  the manner that they know how they can show up.
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  And so mad that their husband isn't the husband that they
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  married. And so they're they're angry and
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  I get it. But if we want to get him back,
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  we're going to have to treat him with some compassion and
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  empathy. Otherwise this isn't going to
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  work. And so it's very
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  counterintuitive for them. And I mean, I get a lot of calls
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  from families that say, you know, they're trying to
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  determine, they're contemplative about doing an intervention.
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  And they say, well, I'm going to go talk to him and, and I'm
• 18:44
  going to see how it goes. And I'll let you know, I say,
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  OK, that sounds good. And some of them will say, how
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  do you think any advice for me? And I say, well, they are going
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  to say one of two things. And, and this is almost always
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  the case. A family approaches somebody
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  who's active in addiction. The person is going to say one
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  or two things. They're going, they're going to
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  say, yes, I'm aware of what's happening.
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  Thank you for telling me I love you or not.
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  But I am working on it. I am in, I'm looking at getting
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  help. I'm going to see a therapist.
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  I'm going to try an A a meeting. They're going to pacify them
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  with some type of verbiage to get them to leave them alone, or
• 19:26
  they're going to have the opposite reaction and yell at
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  them and manipulate them with fear and blame.
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  Both strategies are manipulative and the alcoholic or drug user
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  does it not by training but by default.
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  Right? They're not consciously aware
• 19:42
  this is what I'm doing, but their addiction teaches them to
• 19:45
  manipulate in order to sustain their use.
• 19:47
  So the the alcoholic and IEX have no idea that they're
• 19:49
  manipulating, but they are. And so the family doesn't know
• 19:53
  what to do because, oh, he's going to, he's going to work on
• 19:55
  it. Great, we're good for now.
• 19:57
  Or I'm not going to approach him again because he just gets
• 19:59
  angry. And then they go back to not
• 20:02
  doing anything. And so then we don't hear from
• 20:04
  them. And then maybe six months later
• 20:05
  they call back and say, well, you were right.
• 20:07
  That's what they did. And you know, every time we
• 20:09
  approach me gets angry. So we don't think an
• 20:11
  intervention is a good idea because he's going to get angry.
• 20:14
  And so they get family just gets caught in the cycle and they
• 20:17
  can't get out of it, you know, or the person's dabbling a
• 20:21
  little on recovery, but still using.
• 20:23
  And so they're kind of content with it and they're told that
• 20:26
  that that's still OK. And So what happens is everyone
• 20:30
  stays sick. And it's unfortunate because no
• 20:34
  one's getting the help they need for an act of addiction.
• 20:37
  And so it's just really I'm we see this constantly.
• 20:40
  I'm sure you guys see it all the time too.
• 20:42
  Oh, yeah, total crisis. Then we, you know, everybody's
• 20:46
  making phone calls. We're trying to, you know, line
• 20:48
  up, you know, transport interventions, you're getting a
• 20:52
  plan in place and they go silent.
• 20:54
  And then you finally hear from the loved one.
• 20:56
  There's a well, you know, he was going to meetings there, you
• 20:59
  know, and things get better for a little while, then crisis
• 21:02
  again. And, you know, I think one of
• 21:04
  the reasons that having a professional is so important is,
• 21:08
  you know, we, we hurt the ones we love the most.
• 21:12
  And that goes for not just the active alcoholic or addict, I
• 21:15
  think, but also the, like you said, the family members,
• 21:17
  they're pissed that this person they married is no longer that
• 21:20
  husband or wife. And then the attic, you know, I
• 21:23
  mean, I know I was so mean to my, the immediate family is it
• 21:27
  was just that, you know, they're they're they're, they're
• 21:29
  probably the closest, they're the biggest threat to my
• 21:32
  addiction or were, you know, And so having somebody who has no
• 21:36
  skin in the game other than to be a non, I know an objective
• 21:44
  professional and you can be the bad guy and the good guy, but
• 21:47
  not, but not have any kind of skin in the game for with one
• 21:50
  family member or the other. Absolutely couldn't agree with
• 21:53
  you more, man. It's have that objective third
• 21:56
  party really helps. Plus we don't get caught in the
• 21:58
  the chaos and drama and the emotional brawls that they're
• 22:01
  in. We just cut right through it.
• 22:03
  And then like, I've done some of these interventions and the
• 22:05
  family's like Drew, we talked to you 2 1/2 years ago and, you
• 22:10
  know, here we are, same exact place.
• 22:12
  And that intervention was 30 minutes long.
• 22:15
  And so they're just like, I just wish we had done this sooner,
• 22:19
  you know, and, and, and that's what's bothersome about, you
• 22:22
  know, the world we live in is, you know, it's a, it's, I mean,
• 22:26
  it's a hard illness. And there's a lot of different
• 22:28
  advice being thrown at people via the Internet, via different
• 22:32
  professionals with different ideologies, therapists, coaches,
• 22:36
  treatment center, They talk to a admissions person who doesn't
• 22:39
  really have too much awareness who gives them some advice
• 22:42
  That's like probably not the right advice.
• 22:46
  And so there's just the families are just taking so much data at
• 22:50
  one time. They don't they don't know what
• 22:52
  to do, you know? And so it's, you know, it's a
• 22:55
  hard, it's a hard place to be, to be a consumer, you know,
• 22:58
  trying to figure out what to do in this world.
• 23:00
  Absolutely. Yeah, and we we talk about this
• 23:03
  all the time, but that's it. That's a great point.
• 23:04
  So it's not only just navigating the the conversation, but yeah,
• 23:07
  having someone in the corner with the family that helps them
• 23:10
  once there's a yes or a willingness to make a change
• 23:13
  like, OK, well now there's the process of you have to pick a
• 23:16
  level of care, you get to pick a facility or a treatment
• 23:19
  modality. And I mean that in itself for a,
• 23:22
  for a non informed, you know, consumer family member is a is a
• 23:27
  monumental task. I mean, there's just so many
• 23:30
  resources out there, some good, some bad, some, you know, in the
• 23:33
  middle. Yeah, I mean, it's it's crazy.
• 23:37
  You know, they get on Google and they just go into a hole.
• 23:40
  And, you know, even after they hire us, you know, we start
• 23:42
  getting text messages. Have you heard of this place?
• 23:44
  Have you heard of that place? Right, right.
• 23:46
  Oh my God. Stay on.
• 23:47
  Well, my, you know, my Co workers brother-in-law said, you
• 23:51
  know. Yeah, or, or, you know, my
• 23:54
  friend's son went to this program, you know, but her
• 23:57
  friend's son is not very, it's very different than her son,
• 24:01
  right. It's like we, you know, we
• 24:03
  can't, we can't just assume, you know, that's going to work for
• 24:06
  him as well. So we get a we get a lot of
• 24:09
  that. And you just got to gently kind
• 24:10
  of nudge him back and just say, look, we're going to look at
• 24:12
  everything. We're going to, you know,
• 24:14
  understand, you know, what are your financial, you know,
• 24:17
  capabilities, you know, do we need to look at your insurance?
• 24:20
  And let's make an informed decision because a lot of the, a
• 24:22
  lot of things we want to do is, you know, we want to help
• 24:25
  families look at this as a 36912 month recovery plan.
• 24:29
  And so, you know, depending on the resources they have, how do
• 24:32
  we allocate those appropriately to advise them on how to make
• 24:35
  this work? And so, you know, really trying
• 24:38
  to be conscientious of that. Yeah.
• 24:40
  And that's such an important question to ask families.
• 24:43
  And it can be a really hard 1. And it can come off kind of rude
• 24:47
  or crass is just asking about the, the, the, the resources.
• 24:51
  Because the more people like you and, and the more we know
• 24:56
  upfront about resources, you know, if parents can pay, are
• 25:01
  they willing to whatever, whatever the case may be?
• 25:03
  Because the last thing you want to do is get down the road when
• 25:06
  they're kind of test driving a Cadillac, when you know a Honda
• 25:10
  Accord is more, you know, in order here and.
• 25:14
  Yeah, and we get the same thing on our end where they call us
• 25:16
  and talk to us and you know, we'll say look, I just want to
• 25:19
  be really transparent, you know, hiring an advisor and a
• 25:23
  consultant, you know, it's not an insurance based covered
• 25:26
  service. You know, I just want to make
• 25:27
  sure you're OK. You know, there is fees involved
• 25:31
  and kind of giving them a range. We try to get that out a little
• 25:33
  bit early too because we don't want them to get 3 hours in with
• 25:36
  us and realize, hey, we can't retain you.
• 25:40
  And so really trying to be clear that and, and you know, one of
• 25:42
  the other things about our industry, and I know you guys
• 25:45
  know this really well as operators, and I know this is
• 25:48
  that there's so much confusion around, you know, money and
• 25:54
  where to spend it and quality of care and, you know, going to in
• 25:59
  network versus out of network and all these different options.
• 26:02
  And to the cost that addiction takes on families when
• 26:08
  untreated, you know, so families, you know, will say,
• 26:11
  well, I don't know if we can afford an intervention, but they
• 26:15
  are spending loads of money supporting the individual that's
• 26:18
  not getting help because he's employed because he can't work
• 26:21
  right. And so there's so much like
• 26:24
  detachment from, you know, the actual reality of the money that
• 26:28
  I made. It just adds another layer of
• 26:29
  complexity and challenges to helping people get help.
• 26:34
  Yeah, it's very true. And we've, we've talked almost
• 26:37
  the whole time about interventions and you do way
• 26:40
  more than that. I mean it.
• 26:41
  I, I, you know, before I got sober and then, you know, a
• 26:44
  couple years later started working in this field.
• 26:46
  I, I'd heard, I knew what an intervention was, but I
• 26:48
  certainly never heard of a sober companion or sober transport.
• 26:53
  And I mean, I without, you know, I would imagine most people
• 26:56
  listening to this haven't either.
• 26:58
  So can you kind of talk about what those two things are too?
• 27:01
  Yeah. You know, companions, companion
• 27:04
  services and transport services are, are bridge services
• 27:08
  typically, right. So you have home and treatment,
• 27:13
  you know, bridge services to help people safely access
• 27:17
  treatment from home where they might be willing or sort of
• 27:21
  willing and mom or dad or husband or wife don't want to
• 27:25
  take each other across the country or drive them 10 hours
• 27:29
  to treatment. They can hire us as a specialist
• 27:33
  to provide that transport and make sure that the person is
• 27:37
  properly cared for, monitored, you know, continue to be
• 27:42
  evaluated. You know, we ensure, you know,
• 27:46
  they're not heavily intoxicated, kind of watching the withdrawal
• 27:50
  symptoms and determining is a safe or not safe.
• 27:54
  And so, yeah, making sure people safely get to and from treatment
• 27:58
  and leaving treatment. Are they transitioning to some
• 28:00
  type of transitional living so they need help getting there?
• 28:04
  And then the companion services are typically for people that
• 28:07
  are a little bit more stable, that are looking for kind of
• 28:11
  somebody, a professional to be with them for an extended period
• 28:14
  of time while they handle personal obligations, whether
• 28:18
  that's work or family, going to weddings, going to, you know,
• 28:22
  celebratory events, going on business trips, coming home from
• 28:26
  treatment as an adult who has to go right back to work and can't
• 28:30
  do transitional living or outpatient, but they can have a
• 28:32
  live in companion for three or four weeks to really provide
• 28:36
  that accountability and support. And so it's, it's again, it's
• 28:39
  this kind of unconventional recovery support services that
• 28:43
  have been created in our industry to help reduce relapse
• 28:48
  and to keep people on track and maintaining momentum once
• 28:52
  they've started the process or helping them start the process.
• 28:55
  Yeah. And I'll add one thing that
• 28:56
  y'all did so well on this recent transport with the, with the
• 29:01
  primary mental health case, there were medications involved
• 29:03
  that needed to be safeguarded, monitored, administered.
• 29:07
  And also the, the client did not have his driver's license or no
• 29:12
  ID to get on a plane. And you know, your Sam, your,
• 29:15
  your colleague, employee Sam Hayes said, you know, no
• 29:17
  problem, we got that, we deal with that, made sure he got to
• 29:20
  the airport early. And, you know, there's a
• 29:22
  process, you know, that and to make that happen and that, I
• 29:25
  mean, that kind of thing would could completely derail
• 29:28
  somebody's entire recovery treatment episode and, and
• 29:32
  possibly recovery journey period.
• 29:35
  You know, with that kind of wrinkle and a plan for just, you
• 29:38
  know, mom and dad trying to get somebody somewhere and all of a
• 29:40
  sudden kid can't get on a flight, You know, that could
• 29:43
  ruin the entire thing, not just the day, but I mean, like the
• 29:47
  recovery. Yeah, no, no.
• 29:51
  You know, never give up. You know, it's just we can
• 29:54
  figure it out. Our team can figure it out.
• 29:56
  I mean, we're determined. You know, it's like, I don't
• 29:59
  know if there's a case that comes with us that we say no,
• 30:02
  you know, there's no real obstacle too big for us that
• 30:05
  we're not going to take. I mean, there's one thing I hate
• 30:08
  more than anything. That's when providers say no.
• 30:10
  You know, we, we can't take that client or we're not going to
• 30:13
  accept this. And we work to remove barriers
• 30:18
  and obstacles to treatment, not add them, right?
• 30:21
  So if we can't do it, then nobody can do it.
• 30:24
  But we have tons of experience navigating TSA and airports and
• 30:28
  flights and driving people across the country who are
• 30:32
  vulnerable and making sure people are properly medicated.
• 30:35
  You know, we have all, we have a big infrastructure and that's
• 30:38
  why I think we have a lot of success.
• 30:41
  We have management tiers and then we have myself and then we
• 30:45
  have a medical doctor. So we have we have a lot of
• 30:48
  support for, for our guys and gals on the ground providing
• 30:52
  services. You know, we have a lot of we
• 30:55
  have implemented a lot of technology and resources for our
• 30:59
  team. So they don't have to say no, so
• 31:01
  they don't have to be afraid. So we're going to do, we got to
• 31:04
  do to help people get to where they need to get to, right?
• 31:07
  Because you know, a lot of these cases are super challenging,
• 31:11
  right? And and there's no reason why we
• 31:13
  can't do it. It's great.
• 31:17
  I'll I'll add you were talking about the OR I will comment on
• 31:20
  what you were talking about the companion services when someone
• 31:23
  gets back home. I think that's one that's one
• 31:26
  important piece that sometimes can really be overlooked.
• 31:29
  And we've, I mean, just over the years and in my career and also
• 31:32
  at, at New Waters, I mean, seen so many people that, you know,
• 31:36
  maybe this is showing up in different ways, but maybe
• 31:39
  they've been to treatment two or three times.
• 31:40
  And you know, it's, it's wound up being that missing piece that
• 31:44
  like making that transition from treatment back to home is such a
• 31:49
  huge area of vulnerability. And just having that little bit
• 31:54
  of just additional assistance when you get back home to just
• 31:56
  help you acclimate to the environment.
• 31:58
  You know, make sure you're going to get to the meetings or do the
• 32:00
  things that you need to do to make sure you get to that first
• 32:02
  therapy session. Whatever it is, can, can really
• 32:06
  smooth the the landing for that person.
• 32:09
  And I've seen it just make such a massive difference in the
• 32:11
  past. Yeah.
• 32:12
  I mean, we just recently had a case, probably a 64 year old
• 32:17
  female, chronic chronic alcoholic.
• 32:19
  I mean, went to treatment 1415 times.
• 32:22
  The best programs in the country, best programs in the
• 32:26
  country can't help you when you're at home.
• 32:28
  You know, they can only do so much and they can only do so
• 32:31
  much if you don't follow their aftercare recommendations.
• 32:34
  But this lady had like a small amount of willingness and
• 32:38
  allowed our team to live with her post treatment.
• 32:41
  And you know, as you would imagine, given, you know, the
• 32:46
  quality of her treatment and having having someone who's
• 32:48
  trained living with her, we're obviously seeing the outcome is
• 32:51
  much better now we're transitioning out.
• 32:52
  So we're not there every day. We're there every couple days.
• 32:55
  And you know, we're she's having success for the first time.
• 32:59
  And some of that came down to her willingness to actually do
• 33:01
  what she needed to do. But you know, I'm so happy the
• 33:06
  treatment center like came up with this idea because so many
• 33:09
  times it doesn't get recommended, especially if
• 33:11
  someone has the ability to, to have that service.
• 33:14
  It's like, why not throw it out there?
• 33:16
  And so the, it could have been the difference in whether or not
• 33:18
  this lady lived or not. And so it's, it's a, it's a
• 33:22
  invaluable service. And we, we also get those calls
• 33:27
  when clients are in treatment centers and they're, they're
• 33:31
  kind of too acute to be there. And the treatment center feels
• 33:33
  like they missed some stuff on the admission screen and they
• 33:36
  bring them in and a day later they're like, we, we can't do
• 33:39
  this. And so we'll get the call to
• 33:41
  come get them. And then our team will work with
• 33:44
  them to kind of regulate them a bit more, you know, stabilize
• 33:47
  them a little bit and then either look to Readmit or go
• 33:50
  elsewhere. Yeah, that, you know, that's
• 33:53
  actually, I've not heard of that being a piece of that service.
• 33:58
  That's really good to know. And I was, I was going to say, I
• 34:01
  mean, there's so many great reasons for this.
• 34:04
  And again, the person definitely needs to be able to have the
• 34:07
  resources to do it. But situations when somebody
• 34:10
  comes back to especially a small.
• 34:12
  And we had a guy one time who had gone to a really good
• 34:14
  treatment center after being at New Waters for detox and an
• 34:17
  assessment. And he went to further
• 34:18
  treatment. And he kind of recently moved to
• 34:22
  this pretty small town in North Carolina where they're not tons
• 34:25
  of resources and meetings and stuff.
• 34:27
  And he had a companion there for a little while.
• 34:29
  And The thing is, if get home and if people don't get engaged
• 34:33
  in recovery right away, chances aren't so are aren't good, you
• 34:37
  know, we know that there aren't good, you know, by the numbers
• 34:39
  anyway. But if they don't get engaged
• 34:41
  right away, But if with somebody there to kind of, if nothing
• 34:45
  else, just be there as an an accountability partner to just
• 34:48
  know what you're doing or more importantly, not doing.
• 34:50
  And then you go and then you start getting comfortable and
• 34:53
  acclimated, meet some people in recovery for feeling better.
• 34:56
  And it's not so weird going to those churches or wherever
• 34:59
  you're going. And then and then all of a
• 35:01
  sudden, you know, you're, you're, you're doing it, you
• 35:02
  know. But without that, I don't know
• 35:04
  if this guy would have really set foot into a meeting
• 35:08
  basically. Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 35:10
  There's a lot of fear involved in it and a lot of hesitation.
• 35:13
  And you know, you're vulnerable, you're nervous, you're anxious,
• 35:16
  you're probably a little socially awkward when you're
• 35:18
  first sober. So, you know, if you don't have
• 35:22
  kind of a a group, then you having that companion can make
• 35:25
  the difference. And so, yeah, I would agree with
• 35:27
  you. It it could be, it can be a
• 35:28
  game. You know, the interesting thing
• 35:30
  is like we talked about having the resources and like we talk
• 35:34
  about how much it costs for a person to continue to cycle in
• 35:38
  and out of recovery. And I'm not talking just about
• 35:41
  the financial cost. I'm talking about the emotional
• 35:43
  cost on the family and on the friends and on that individual.
• 35:47
  And you it's, it's amazing how many times we'll get a call and
• 35:51
  saying like the family doesn't have a lot of financial
• 35:53
  resources, but they are literally dying emotionally and
• 35:57
  they find a way to pull together some money.
• 35:59
  And we put an end to the cycle. And it was the greatest
• 36:02
  investment they could have ever made because of had they not,
• 36:05
  you know, they were all going to be unemployed because they
• 36:07
  couldn't handle the stress from that.
• 36:10
  So, you know, often times when we look at addiction and mental
• 36:13
  health untreated, think about the parents that are falling
• 36:17
  apart. You know, their marriage is
• 36:19
  falling apart. They're not being able to work
• 36:21
  at a high level. Their, their other children
• 36:24
  don't want to talk to them because of the way they're
• 36:25
  handling this. So, you know, by not making an
• 36:29
  investment, you know, even if it's a little bit of a stretch,
• 36:32
  you're, you're going to have further, further financial cost.
• 36:36
  And so there's a lot of things families don't look at, you
• 36:38
  know, when you really peel that onion and to see how does this
• 36:42
  really impact us, right? What is the cost of me and my
• 36:45
  wife divorcing my other kids not talking to me because I'm not
• 36:49
  handling my son's addiction correctly?
• 36:51
  It's like in that case, it is worth it to spend 5 grand and do
• 36:55
  this 10 grand like, you know, 'cause I'm gonna save all these
• 36:58
  other things. So we try to have that dialogue
• 37:00
  with them about like, what is this really costing you?
• 37:04
  You know, in all facets, not just the dollar value, but
• 37:07
  emotionally, you know, and relationship wise, what is the
• 37:10
  cost if your son or daughter continues to use and then they
• 37:13
  can see, OK, this does make sense to make this investment.
• 37:17
  Yeah, that's such a great point. I'm glad you you, you clarified
• 37:21
  that. So you we talked about
• 37:23
  interventions, we talked about transport, we talked about
• 37:26
  companions. What else do y'all?
• 37:28
  Do you know, we do some some consulting and guidance, you
• 37:31
  know, for, you know, people that you know, are trying to navigate
• 37:35
  the steps of this process. I think that's mainly handled by
• 37:39
  me and one of their my colleagues here.
• 37:40
  And it's more of a willing participant who is trying to
• 37:44
  decipher and decide, you know, what is this going to look like
• 37:47
  for me? Where am I going to go?
• 37:49
  And it's usually collaborative process done with the family and
• 37:51
  the individual and yeah, or an employer and their employee.
• 37:55
  And so really just getting involved in figuring out what do
• 37:59
  you think they need, you know, do they need kind of an advisor
• 38:02
  guide with them? You know, it's sort of a
• 38:04
  modified case management, but a little little different.
• 38:09
  I'm just sort of, you know, kind of having a partner guide, you
• 38:12
  know, they're they're to support you.
• 38:13
  But like I said, the beginning, you know, we really stick to the
• 38:16
  three services. We're we're good at.
• 38:18
  You know, we don't really dive deep into family work.
• 38:21
  We don't have long term case management.
• 38:25
  We really stick to these three services because we know we
• 38:27
  deliver them exceptionally. And I've always been hesitant to
• 38:31
  start doing things that I just wasn't sure, you know, we could
• 38:34
  properly handle. And so we really have the right
• 38:38
  team to do intervention. I mean, we do about 270
• 38:41
  interventions a year as a company.
• 38:44
  Yeah. And we could have three or four
• 38:47
  or five companions going at one time.
• 38:49
  So, well, you know, we're a very busy high volume provider.
• 38:54
  But I, I and I appreciate what you said at the beginning too.
• 38:56
  You kind of looked at what all everybody's doing and found
• 38:59
  these things that you do well and are confident and not trying
• 39:03
  to do too much because, you know, we see it all the time
• 39:05
  where people get spread too thinly and, you know, become a
• 39:09
  Jack of all trades and master of none.
• 39:13
  Right. I mean, we refer to family
• 39:16
  recovery specialists that work with families on this topic.
• 39:20
  I could certainly do it, but I don't, you know.
• 39:23
  So we have a few organizations we refer to for families and
• 39:27
  then if the client needs like a long term case manager, we have
• 39:31
  a few people we know in the industry that we trust.
• 39:35
  But yeah, I mean, we just, we believe in do what you do well
• 39:39
  and if you don't refer it out to people that do and just be a
• 39:42
  team. Awesome.
• 39:45
  Well, on that note, how do people find you, Drew and Drew
• 39:52
  Horowitz and associates? The best thing to do is our
• 39:55
  website, drewhorowitzassociates.com.
• 39:59
  You can look at staff, you can look at services, you can submit
• 40:02
  a web inquiry. We look at, we get them right
• 40:04
  away. So I would advise, you know, if
• 40:07
  you want to learn more, you know, we do consultations all
• 40:10
  the time. There's no cost.
• 40:12
  It's good, you know, it's no pressure.
• 40:14
  It's not high sales. It's here's what we do if you
• 40:16
  need us. Let us know if you want to talk
• 40:18
  through options. Happy to do that, but we're
• 40:20
  based in Minneapolis and Florida, West Palm Beach and
• 40:23
  Minute, Minneapolis. We have two staff in Los
• 40:27
  Angeles, we have one staff in Texas.
• 40:30
  So we are pretty accessible. We can move pretty quickly.
• 40:35
  Yeah, it's great. You sure can.
• 40:36
  We've seen it. Well, Drew, thank you so much
• 40:39
  for being here today. That was very enlightening about
• 40:42
  about the insurance and outs of intervention and and thank you
• 40:45
  for all that you do and we love working with you.
• 40:47
  So thank you likewise. Man, appreciate both of you
• 40:50
  guys. Absolutely.
• 40:51
  Thank you, Drew. Yeah.
• 40:53
  Thank you very much. Have a great day.
• 40:54
  If you liked what you heard today or just want to know more,
• 40:57
  give us a call on 9196708119 or visit us at
• 41:02
  newwatersrecovery.com. Thank you.