Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 263. #AMA (Ask Me Anything) Fridays: Staffing Up During the Great Resignation - Jonathan McCoy, CFRE and Becky Endicott, CFRE

Transcript

263. #AMA (Ask Me Anything) Fridays: Staffing Up During the Great Resignation - Jonathan McCoy, CFRE and Becky Endicott, CFRE · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Jonathan McCoy: Today's episode is sponsored by feather feather provides digital marketing tools and strategies for nonprofits of all shapes and sizes, including the Humane Society of North Central Florida. Stick around for the break to hear how feather power their $300 digital ad campaign that raised nearly$6,000 In just one day. Hey, I'm John.
• 0:20
  Becky Endicott: And I'm Becky.
• 0:21
  Jonathan McCoy: And this is the we are for good podcast.
• 0:24
  Becky Endicott: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:33
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:42
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community, where Nonprofit Professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:52
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started. Happy Friday, Becky.
• 0:56
  Becky Endicott: Welcome, everybody. I'm so glad you're back at another AMA. I am so excited about these amas. John, they are giving me life.
• 1:05
  Jonathan McCoy: I know I hope you've been enjoying these because we're like loving the voicemail that we've set up at speakpipe.com/ We're for good.
• 1:09
  Jonathan McCoy: You just kind of never know what you're gonna get. It's like the old school days of playing voicemails you press play and who left you a voicemail today, right? So we got one this week.
• 1:17
  Jonathan McCoy: And it just really I think speaks to the moment it speaks to a lot of conversations that I hear, you know, that are starting to bubble up. And it's this idea of the great resignations happening. What do we do in terms of staffing, because there is a lot of movement, but how do you move forward with hiring and one of our favorite people left this voice memo, you're gonna know Dana Schneider, she is from positive equation. She has her own podcast, which is phenomenal missions to movement. And we were so delighted that it was her but well, let's just play it and then we can jump into the conversation.
• 1:46
  Dana Snyder: Hey, Dream Team, Dana Snyder here from positive equation. And I always ask you all a question about kind of this great resignation era or more, the great rethink, they're calling it now where we're really looking in prioritizing our work and life balance ever since the pandemic happened. In the nonprofit world. I feel like there's always been this term of I wear multiple hats, and that can lead to burnout and anxiety and just overworked and not true happiness and leaning into somebody's zone of genius and not being able to focus their butt on a bazillion other things. Do you think that as we come into the summertime, new budgets are happening? Just transitions are happening within culture? Do you think that nonprofits are going to be looking to hire more specifically for a designated role, versus somebody who does many different things and then can lead to continuous burnout?
• 2:45
  Dana Snyder: We'd love your thoughts on this.
• 2:47
  Becky Endicott: Oh, my gosh, what a question is so good. Our community is going there. We just talked about the overhead meth last week, which we were so geeked out and excited to have Mallory Erickson on. But I am so jazzed to talk about one of my favorite topics, which is the great resignation because it just feels like we're standing in this tenable moment that has never happened, and nonprofit.
• 3:10
  Becky Endicott: And if in what we want to talk to you guys today is about how do you seize this moment thoughtfully? How do you use hiring and this influx of talent that is coming to over to the nonprofit sector? How do you use it to power your culture, power, your mission and to sunset, some of these old habits and mindsets that are truly holding us back?
• 3:35
  Jonathan McCoy: Yeah, and I think one of those that holds us back and we got to start with a little bit of tone setting is the idea of scarcity. I think anytime we talk about hiring, and I mean talking to fellow founders and people that are running organizations all the time, like, it's truly a fear, like when you add a budget of a salary, like it's a huge expense. And it is a huge kind of accountability that is coming with that. And so I really want us to, you know, press into this together, okay, we're all holding hands here, we're like, we realize it's hard. But if we can really zoom out and really focus on what we're trying to accomplish, a lot of our conversation today is going to be about making sure that we're zoomed out enough to really make smart, informed decisions. When we do that the scarcity also can kind of dissipate, when you can see the bigger picture at play, you can see that you're not just plugging for a hole because people are, you know, feeling annoyed about something and trying to plug a hole to cover that you're really looking at where are we trying to move in light of everything that's happening because the world has shifted in a lot of ways, the way our organizations have shifted, and so just want to call it out, you know, like, as you sit around as a leadership team, really talk about what can my personal beliefs about money or scarcity be informing and showing up in this conversation?
• 4:46
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, Becky, and I have to have this conversation all the time with Julie of like, are we having a scarcity lens on this because there is abundance, there is the ability for more money to flow into your organization. and more to happen as we kind of release control.
• 5:02
  Jonathan McCoy: And some of these things. This is not to make a rogue decision, but like, we need to be open to that. And so I just call that out if you're struggling through that, like lean into that we talk about it a lot on the podcast, and we'll even curate some episodes where we kind of dive deeper into that. It's all about having a growth mindset, though.
• 5:15
  Becky Endicott: Yeah, we've got episodes on that. So stay tuned, we'll drop those in, definitely in the shownotes. And we'll mention them toward the end of this conversation. But I think a good starting place for hiring is not the title. It's not the details. It's really about taking a step back and doing what I call the Jonathan McCoy.
• 5:32
  Becky Endicott: Talking about, what are your what are your goals? What are your short term goals? What are your long term goals? How does this position play into the greater strategy of what your team is trying to build, I was really triggered by that phrase that Dana said about I wear multiple hats, because to me, that phrase in and of itself, is telling me that we are in tactical overdrive, that we're doing all the things and we don't have time to lift up and look at strategy, and keep our eye on the bigger prize, I think wearing multiple hats means that burnout is going to happen a lot easier, you're not taking care of your mental health, you're going to be in the weeds with projects, and it's going to be really hard to lift up out of that. And that is also a different mindset. So, you know, if you're thinking, you know, this is the way that it's always been done, which is a triggering phrase also, to John and I, that something is rife to be rethought reimagined, re architectured. And so that is really what we're saying about hiring right now, this does not need to be a transactional process, this has the potential to be a transformational process for not only the person you're hiring, but for the organization. And John, you've got to talk a little bit about this donor Experience Officer we found because I think the innovation of approaches that people are using are just staggering and rethinking exactly how we even go through our work anymore.
• 7:04
  Jonathan McCoy: I think you kind of threaded this beautifully be because it's not like we're just changing a light bulb, you know, it's not like only the another light bulb, it's like an opportunity to reassess and light of the vision and goals that we have in place. So we just ran across this ever true.
• 7:17
  Jonathan McCoy: And thank you has been putting a ton of work into this. So kudos and props to the team there. But just this idea, you know, a long time ago, what would you say isn't an average major gift officers portfolio, maybe 100 125?
• 7:29
  Becky Endicott: Right? Maximum capacity? And I could do no more than 125.
• 7:34
  Jonathan McCoy: Right? And so I'm sure you're you know, if you're thinking of the traditional lens, you're like, how do I even juxtapose that with some of the principles we talked about in today's modern development shop where we're talking about behavior matters more than giving them out. And kind of just flipping the pyramid and really focusing on the base and cultivating the base, we'll enter the donor experience officer. And this person, I think, traditionally, we would have called them maybe a mid level giving officer or maybe someone in the donor relations team. But imagine flipping the script and saying, it actually is possible with the right habits in place and the right systems in place for one person to manage to cultivate along 1000 People at scale. Now obviously, they're not having coffee every day, because they're not spending their time driving to the coffee shop.
• 8:17
  Jonathan McCoy: They're taking intentional action that's personalized to the individual person trying to shepherd them along the way. And it's really flipping the script.
• 8:23
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, we're seeing these officers raise, you know, five, or maybe even six figure gifts occasionally. But certainly creating this pipeline that is leading people into deeper relationships at scale. And so just that example alone, that wasn't on the radar a few years ago, right. And so if we would have just said, okay, this person quit, it's time to repost where's that job description, let me dust that off. And like put this back in here. If you do that you're missing the innovation, which is why growth and learning and all this is so important, especially now, when so much has shifted. And so that change alone could allow you to reach your mission and vision so much quicker and so much better by just tweaking what that role even looks like. And so, this this conversation, I hope illuminates and makes you pause to think about, what are we really trying to do here and you know, look for innovative approaches like that,
• 9:12
  Becky Endicott: you know, just don't sending again for great resignation. Here's what I want people to know. There are 4.5 million individuals who left their job through January of this year. That's from March 2021 to January 2022. I mean, John 4.5 million have voluntarily left their job because they had one of these what they're calling pandemic epiphanies. I want to run to a greater purpose. Life is too short to stay in a job I'm not passionate about. And so according to the Nonprofit Leadership Alliance, the most common reasons for voluntary turnover in nonprofits are a lack of opportunity for upward mobility, not surprising, and career and career growth and also dissatisfaction with the organizational culture. So what we want to Do we really want to dive into some key steps to help make that right nonprofit higher during this time? Because look, we've got the purpose, we've got the impact, we just need to create organizations that are vibrant enough, and are growth minded enough that someone can see themselves not only pouring into the mission, but staying growing. So where do you want to start, John?
• 10:24
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, okay, let's jump in and start with number one, which would be transparently posting about the job with salary. Okay? If this is disruptive to you think about the reckoning that's happened and just the stats you throughout our just like we can easily just rattle those off and to sit with that to know what that means for four and a half million to voluntarily leave, what a reckoning we're having.
• 10:46
  Jonathan McCoy: And so of course, we've got to be transparent. And you know, we just came off a series where we talked about the power of culture, and why culture matters. That's why we started this series with culture matters, is because ultimately, the interior culture of your organization is going to be experienced by those outside of your organization, the world is too connected now, like you can't live in a silo have that.
• 11:05
  Jonathan McCoy: So you need to be transparent from the beginning. And so we're seeing the most progressive organizations lean into this in the way they write job descriptions, expectations, location, expectations, and salary, because it's all about not wanting to waste people's time and energy and your time and energy as well. And so putting that out there is maybe going to take some change management, and Valerie just beautifully came on the podcast last week and said, make a 1% shift, this is an easy 1% shift, that's going to save your hiring team time, and align candidates that are willing to come work in the you know, range that you're looking to pay. And so I love this so much. But we also think this is a chance to storytel What are your values? What is your manifesto? You know, that's a big word that we talked about, what's that kind of driving narrative of why everybody is aligned culturally, to do whatever your mission is, like thread that together in the way you talk about this. Because as people are looking for purpose, they want to attach themselves to be part of that story. You know, we just came back from the virtuous conference, we get to be on the ground in Phoenix. And I will say, on one level, you could say versus like a tech platform, right. And that would be the 1% depth, you get to know the people that are there, like they are so excited to be there because they love and believe in the mission work that they're attached to. And that is like a team that really comes alive.
• 12:20
  Jonathan McCoy: And so of course leaning into that is going to attract the type of people that you want to be perpetuating on your team and the level of talent
• 12:28
  Becky Endicott: that values putting values into your job description has got to be like the pro tip from today. I mean, let people see who you are. Put your aspirations out there. And what we keep saying is that we'll be a magnet to really incredible talent that want to come over and be a part of that.
• 12:45
  Becky Endicott: So great tip.
• 12:47
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, friends, this episode is presented by virtuous and they just happen to be one of our favorite companies. Let me tell you why.
• 12:51
  Jonathan McCoy: You know, we believe everyone matters. And we've witnessed the greatest philanthropic movements happen when you see and activate donors at every level. And here's the thing, virtuous created a fundraising platform to help you do just that. It's much more than a nonprofit CRM.
• 13:07
  Jonathan McCoy: Virtuous is committed to helping charities reimagine generosity through responsive fundraising, which is simply putting the donor at the center of fundraising, growing giving through personalized donor journeys, and by helping you respond to the needs of every individual. We love it because this approach builds trust and loyalty through personalized engagement. Sound like virtuous, maybe a fit for your organization? Learn more today and virtuous.org or follow the link in our show notes.
• 14:10
  Becky Endicott: Hey, friends, are you ready to take your digital engagement to the next level, but kind of feel stuck about where to start? Let us introduce you to feather feather is an amazing tech startup focused on making nonprofit outreach more impactful by connecting you to your audience wherever they are online, from fundraising to program awareness, they've got you covered. And rather than telling you we just wanted to show you for years, the Humane Society of North Central Florida has participated in a local online giving day called the amazing give. It's a competitive landscape for donations. So in 2021, the Humane Society knew they needed to stand out in order to maximize donations for$300 in ad spend their retargeting ads brought 119 visitors to their amazing gift donation page and generated nearly $6,000 in donations in just one day. With feather a small amount of ad spend can go a long way. Learn more about their solutions for nonprofits@feather.co. That's feather without the last e.co.
• 15:05
  Becky Endicott: Now let's get back to this amazing conversation. Okay, number two is that engagement is going to be key, how you engage with candidates, how you engage with someone who's getting onboard and how much of your onboarding process raise your hand if you have an onboarding process. I feel like that is woefully absent and nonprofit and I will say we're guilty of it too. I don't think that we had a great time. boarding process at any of the last two shops that we were in, but how do we want to make someone feel that they're already getting pulled into the culture into the mission. And I would say one of the problems with hiring that we keep seeing over and over is it's so linear. It's one to one, the executive director, hiring a new staff, bringing your team have onboarding be a team effort. I mean, share what you're working on, talk about your lives and the things that are important to you. I would also say engagement with staff current staff one on one is actually key to this process.
• 16:08
  Becky Endicott: How is this person going to help their efforts? How is there going to be collaboration, what is a good fit look like? That kind of dispels this top down myth that we see in nonprofit and a lot of corporate settings where it's just you do what I say from the top down, when you starting to lift the base, it feels like all voices are integral to the success. And that's why we think number two engagement is going to be key in this process.
• 16:32
  Jonathan McCoy: And it's going to be key after you hire him too. So I love that one. So number three, is this idea of flexibility. And this is something that has dramatically shifted. It's sped up in the last couple years. But really think about what flexibility of work schedule can you offer with this position. And you know, I remember Mark Lanham came on the podcast, he is with Brown University. And you know, as he talked about hiring and growing their team, he's like, it's this fascinating place that really, they can hire from anywhere in the States, you know, and it really changes your pool of candidates, as you kind of open this up. So I would say from a leadership standpoint, you really want to sit around and say, not traditionally, where has this position been? Like, where has it been physically located? But what could it look like in this new imagined reality.
• 17:18
  Becky Endicott: And if you're someone who's really grappling with the remote work, go back to trust, go back to integrity of your people, if you trust them, and you want to empower them, empowerment is a teaser that's coming, then let them work where they need to work if there is not an actual hard core impetus to being in the office. And the other thing I want to say about flexibility is flexibility is going to be absolutely key when you're hiring women 75% of the nonprofit workforce is women.
• 17:51
  Becky Endicott: And we're looking at what's happening with the great resignation, we're looking at, I think about Reshma Saujani, who's doing a ton of work on the Marshall Plan for women in trying to make working moms, you know, create organizations and cultures were working moms can thrive and not have burnout. So flexibility to go to appointments to go to kid activities, I will tell you, I set that as a parameter, every single place I went, it's like, I'm not going to miss a Valentine party. And I'm not going to miss you know, the school play unless there is something absolutely huge within the organization, let your people know that you honor that.
• 18:30
  Becky Endicott: And you understand that the job is a job, and we want them to be healthy inside and outside that culture. Okay, so moving into number four, unleash experimentation. And what we're saying here is that we need a vast commitment from the nonprofit industry, to commit to innovation, to tech into trying stuff, when I think about the wearing multiple hats, and I think that thing is just going to stay in the back of my mind during this conversation. It's because we haven't figured out ways to work smarter. And so I think one of the things you can do here, when you're talking about experimentation is lift the voices of your people, what are they saying? What's working?
• 19:14
  Becky Endicott: What are some of your peers using that they're using for growth? And I think a great place to start with this is to dive into professional development, are you going to webinars by virtue of listening to this podcast, you're already pouring into it. And I give you a very big pat on the back for doing that. But we need to commit to trying stuff and people will come into our organization, if they know that there is a commitment to innovation to try new ideas, because that's how scaling and growth works. We want to attract not only talent, but we want to attract donors, volunteers, believers. And we can only do that when we cast our nets wide and we try new things.
• 19:55
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, that's a perfect segue to talk about automations I mean, I know this is a little off base. But if you're thinking about for this position coming in, is your whole team like leaned into the tech that's powering this very moment. Are you really using the automation that's available to you in your CRM, think of all the automations that you can set up from a warming sequence to a welcome sequence and scheduling your social media Grammarly is this great editing tool. You don't need to pass it around the office and other time to get something edited. Use some of the tools here. Zapier will sync task and automate, you know adding people to your list or sending them that warming sequence even Calendly for setting up meetings or snippets for writing Last emails like, there's a lot of automations that are killing and taking away all of our time that maybe we're stalking on an administrative person that can be unleashed to be able to do really meaningful work. And so definitely take a pause and look at that, too. I
• 20:46
  Becky Endicott: love that one.
• 20:46
  Becky Endicott: And number six is by far and away my favorite one, and it is nurturing, professional, gross.
• 20:54
  Becky Endicott: So I want everybody to do something. For me, this is a huge favor. When you start your budget this year, and you have a completely blank spreadsheet sitting in front of you, I want you to put professional development as the first item.
• 21:08
  Becky Endicott: And I want you to covet and hold that slot on that cell for your team. This is something that we're thinking is probably the biggest opportunity that sits for innovation, for growth, for fundraising success for retention of employees, if we can invest and pouring into not only the new employees, but our current employees, they're going to see opportunities, again for that upward mobility for promotion, for you know, creating a program that can have just an exponential impact on our organization. If we are not diving into professional growth than we are truly staying stagnant, please put that in your budget this year, hold court for it and protect it for your people.
• 21:57
  Jonathan McCoy: I mean, don't you just like that's a theme is like we cannot stay stagnant through all of this transition to this new hiring, or even considering hiring. How are we going to transform this and I want to end with a couple of like, pro tips. And this isn't just like a tip. This is I hope this like infiltrates all of your practices. We've curated some conversations on the podcast of how do you infuse diverse talent into our team?
• 22:17
  Jonathan McCoy: How do we shift the lens on this idea of cultural fit? And kushana Palmer came in on episode 63. And you can hear our audible gasp be when she said cultural fit. And you know, this is a term that is used a lot in the hiring process like oh, we passed over them when the right cultural fit right? Have you ever been in a team that said this cultural fit is just a container for the prejudices that we hold around who we think belongs? Sit with that one, you know, like, truly think about this before you go into the hiring process. This has got to be the norm. Yes, we want a vibrant culture. But you can't hire based upon that.
• 22:54
  Becky Endicott: Kiss just throws down the bombs all the time. And I really love what she had said on that episode too about if we're serious about having professionals of color at different levels of leadership within an organization, we have to be serious about how we're going to build our second third, and eventually our first circles of people we are connected to.
• 23:12
  Becky Endicott: And so I really want to put that out there as your hiring. We want equitable teams, we want vibrant teams. If you're someone who's geeking out over the great resignation right now, we had a really great conversation with Sally Bryant, who's the principal of the the Brian group, it was episode 192. And it's how to leverage as much as you can out of this great opportunity. We also have a great episode on tips to cultivate a growth mindset that John and I dove into in Episode 49. Please lean into this. This is such an opportunity that we think nonprofit leaders across the country should be chomping at the bit to seize to attract motivated, purpose driven candidates into our organizations.
• 23:55
  Jonathan McCoy: So I just see so much hope in this conversation because it really is just like the great resignation, it's this time to really take stock to ask the bigger, better questions of what are you really trying to accomplish? Who do you really need to be able to do that? What roles are you needed? And I hope that is a really good jumping off point. We've curated a ton of resources on today's show notes. And so please dive in there. But again, thank you, Dana, for such a great jumping off point question. This has been such a fun one
• 24:20
  Becky Endicott: and get into our SpeakPipe we want to know what you're thinking we're about to start a new series coming up.
• 24:25
  Becky Endicott: But we still want your questions. We want those threaded, it speakpipe.com backslash we're for good. Thanks for joining us today friends.
• 24:35
  Jonathan McCoy: Thanks for joining us. Today's episode was brought to you by our good friends at office zero. Without zero your nonprofit can do more with a login box. Greet prospects and rabid fans of your mission with authenticity simply make it easier for your team to manage data. There's so much at Oxy real login experience can do visit authz route.org for more info.
• 24:54
  Becky Endicott: If you enjoyed this episode, we know you'll love being part of the we're for good community. It's like our own social network where you can find like minded friends, ask questions, share resources and find inspiration anytime. Sign up today at we are for good.com backslash hello
• 25:10
  Jonathan McCoy: thanks friends