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Drew McManus of SATSANG · Caught on the Mike...

0:28
SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Caught on the Mic.
0:34
SPEAKER_01: What happens when a guy who spent years searching for answers finally feels like he's found them?
0:41
SPEAKER_01: Drew McManus has taken Satsong from reggae hip hop and roots music into something that's much more deeply personal.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: And now with Elohim, he says he's stepping fully into his faith.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: This is a conversation about music, transformation, finding your voice, and what happens when the journey changes you.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: My friend, how the hell are you?
1:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm doing really well, man.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm just getting over a cold, but other than that, I'm great.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, we've been talking about making this episode happen for a little while now, for a hot minute.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: I think back uh when I had Jackson Weatherby of the elevators on back in May, I think you and I started talking about it.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: And boy, it's been a busy summer.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's been super, super crazy.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: So let's jump right into it and let's start talking about the album.
1:28
SPEAKER_01: Elohim feels like a pretty significant statement.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: You've called this your most spiritual and personal record yet, and you're talking openly about stepping fully into your faith.
1:41
SPEAKER_01: Where I mentioned to you before we even pressed record that even without the faith element, this feels like an album for everybody that everybody can find some sense of personal connection to.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: What changed in you that made you ready to make this record right now?
1:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, well, the the record it took it was actually like almost two years in the making.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: My life was pretty well dialed, and then in like 2022 became very undialed.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: I got divorced and was working.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: How I kind of responded to to that was by working more, you know, which is just kind of my default.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: If I feel overwhelmed, or like if my real life feels overwhelming, I then I'll go all in on work, and that wasn't helping.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: And uh it was just touring really, really heavily.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it finally caught up with me, you know, and I had I had like nine years sober, um, and then I had relapsed and uh and then got sober again and then relapsed again, and I've just kind of always been a seeker by nature, and I think um you know, I just had a pretty spiritual experience.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: I got like the sickest I've ever been, and uh, you know, it was time to to start working on new music, and I just I had this download that was very direct that I felt like God was asking me to make a record for him.
3:04
SPEAKER_00: Um so I I really went went all in on that and um yeah, it was just really picky.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: I think the reason usually I make records really fast, you know.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: Usually I make a record in like three, four months time.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: I write writing is really easy for me.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: Um but with this one I really took my time and was very careful about how I worded things and very intentional.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: Not careful, intentional.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: I was very intentional about what made it on this album and what didn't.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: Um there's a lot of songs that were really catchy that that I'm saving for another another thing.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: I just I wanted this record to be deep from front to back.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: I think the timeliness of its release is really good too.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm one of those type of people where my tastes change as seasons change, and I think it's very eloquent, it's a very eloquent recording as we transition into fall, and this is a transitional record, and it has that feeling to it from the opening intro and through the evolution of the songs.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: I I really gotta you know tip the hat to you that it was very well executed.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the intro is really special to me.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's my my friend Brian Carpenter, who is uh just one of the deepest, most beautiful dudes that I know.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: And uh he was one of the first and only people besides my wife that I was that I was sharing this music with, you know.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: I was pretty I was holding it pretty to pretty tight to the chest, you know.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: I wasn't showing it to many people.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: And we went uh we went on a fishing trip, and he and he was a pastor for a really long time, and now he runs this amazing nonprofit.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, man, I I showed him the music on the drive.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: I showed him pretty much the whole record, and then his response to it in our in our conversation that day just really blew me away.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: So I kind of asked him, you know, if he would bless the record, and and we you know, he just sent me that voice text one morning, and I was just like, Well, there's that's the intro, bro.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: You nailed it.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
5:04
SPEAKER_01: You know, one thing that I think we could totally do a separate podcast about it another portion of time is the magnanimous life change you go through through the process of divorce, especially if you're a father.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, I tell a lot of my friends whenever they're going through it, I say, listen, you're gonna feel like you're having a split personality disorder.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: You're gonna have three different personalities existing at the same time, which is gonna create chaos in your life.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be the portion of you that is mourning the end of the relationship and what's coming next.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: There's gonna be a manic side of you that just acts out and maybe makes some decisions that are not so savory.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: And then there's the third side of it, which is the person that makes peace with the whole process.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: And at any given moment in time, one of those personalities is going to reveal itself to you when you least expect it.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: But eventually over time, you kind of find this sense of peace through the process when all three of those personalities kind of merge into one.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Am I off base there?
6:11
SPEAKER_01: Is that something?
6:12
SPEAKER_00: No, I think you're I think you're dead on.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: You know, for me it was like, yeah, it's all of that, right?
6:17
SPEAKER_00: There's also this excitement of of like, well, what's next then?
6:22
SPEAKER_00: You know?
6:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: But definitely the morning of, you know, it wasn't on my bingo card.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: That's not your plan when you get married and have kids with someone, you know, the plan is like we're this is what we're doing for forever.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: Right.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, luckily me and my ex-wife are are pretty friendly and uh we do great with the co-parenting thing.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: But for me, it was like uh what's always kind of saved my ass is is looking at life through a spiritual lens and in the distillation of of not just a divorce, but the relapse and the you know, really without what's next, it's like, okay, well, what kind of man do I want to be now?
6:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, having gone through this completely unexpected thing, what kind of man do I want to be for my son?
7:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what do I want yeah, really, what do I want my son to say about me?
7:08
SPEAKER_00: And um I just kept coming.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: I want him to say that I was rock solid and that I was a man of God and that I always had faith and instilled that in him.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of my north star through the whole process, you know?
7:20
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly where I was going with this whole train of thought and why I passed that off to you that way, is because through that whole process you get this overwhelming sense of purpose.
7:32
SPEAKER_01: And you know, thinking about the themes of this new album, was there a moment when spirituality stopped being something you were searching for and it became something you actually felt grounded in through this process?
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: That was why I was like picky for lack of a better word.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: That's why I was I was just really picky and intentional about what I wanted on this record because I wanted it to be this complete embodiment of of where I'm at right now.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: You know, and with it comes a came a lot of risk too, you know.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: Like what to me, what's been one of the most overwhelming things is how many other artists privately have reached out to me and been like, hey, me too.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, but they won't they won't share their faith publicly because there's like this great fear of backlash.
8:20
SPEAKER_00: But privately I've had so many people and so many bands that you've interviewed come to me and be like, hey bro, me too.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for making this.
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, which really is what I just want to inspire everyone to do with in and I'm not recruiting, I say that all the time.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not recruiting anybody to think or believe like me.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: What my intention is is to be a lighthouse and example of of the work that God has done in me, and period.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: There is there's no there's no more to that sentence.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: Like uh I say that prayer every night before I get on stage, is let me just be a good example.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm not um I'm not trying to win anybody over.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: And if me being a good example makes someone curious about their faith and they find God, that's amazing.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, I'm not fishing.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: And and that's that's the thing about it all, is that's where a person's faith and a person's spirituality is functioning at its best, is when it's functioning through actions and not just words, and it's not just a recruitment trip, and you see somebody living the ideals and morals that they've they actually talk about.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: So, in retrospect to that, does this album come from a place where you finally felt like you had an answer or realizing you no longer needed to keep looking for one?
9:40
SPEAKER_00: Well, uh finally have an answer, yeah.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I feel like what's what's been revealed to me in this process is that God's been with me the whole time and that you know I had a really hard life, bro.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: I grew up in a in a an extremely abusive household, very minimal family contacts, becoming a man in present day, you know, I'm really close with my with my big brother, and that's about it, and my sister who I was very close with past.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: So kind of reframing all of the things that I've gone through as um is is almost like preparation, you know, for who I was meant to become, rather than these things that were happening like to me, they were all happening for me to forge me into the man that I was meant to become.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's it's yeah, it's been it's been a really heavy process for sure.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, kind of sharing some kinship with you, or sharing more kinship with you, if you will.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: I've been on my own and estranged from most of my family since I was 16 years old.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Like same, same exact age.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and you want me to make it even weirder for you?
10:41
SPEAKER_01: I was in Iowa.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wild.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: I know that's where you're from, too, originally, too.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: I was in southwest Iowa, and uh yeah, I was I finished high school, and the thing is that I tell everybody it's like, dude, I should have been a statistic.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: Like for every reason, every curveball imaginable had been thrown at me, and I should have been an absolute statistic, but I just worked my ass off to prove, you know, that you are better than maybe the upbringing that you had, you know.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and for me, I found a lot of power in you know, that's one thing that me and my brother share very deeply is is he has two daughters, you know, and that shit has ended with us.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, he's a great father, and I'm a great father, and uh you know, our kids will never have any, you know, they'll never know what it was like to to carry that weight because they won't have to, because they've had good, loving, studious parents, you know.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: So that's to me I've I've been finding a lot more like riches in that sort of stuff.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, like my my my brother Brady always says this thing, like if you give someone like the two choices, uh they'll always wish they pick the other one, you know.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: I thought I'd be a lot farther in my career than I am right now, but I'm dearly loved by my wife and my child and my children, so I'm rich, you know.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why, you know, when we go through our own hardships, like our own divorce, that's why it almost felt more impactful because it's that fear of like, okay, man, am I repeating some of the same damn patterns that I went through as a kid?
12:23
SPEAKER_01: And am I imparting that onto my own children?
12:26
SPEAKER_01: And it's one of those things, it could be a messed up headspace if you're not really consciously aware of it and like, no, I'm better than this, I'm better.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of self-affirming talk through those processes, isn't it?
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like that was the hardest part for me was that I like I felt like I was doing the same thing that that happened to me, but I just I kept I I kept having this thing of like, no, because it's just a fact of life that that people are together for long periods of time and then it doesn't work out.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: So it's like so well, how beautiful and loving can we make this process of of uncoupling, as it were.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, uh if you ask my son, he would, you know, he would he would tell you that me and his mom are friends.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: He doesn't ever see us, he doesn't see any of that because it doesn't happen, you know.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: We're like very mindful of that.
13:15
SPEAKER_00: So it almost kind of gives permission that like I think that old school thing, you know, growing up in the era that we did, especially growing up Irish Catholic, was how many people were like, no, you stay married no matter what, like you know, no, no matter how fucked up it is.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Right.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
13:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk more about the music itself.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: Satsong has moved from reggae hip hop and conscious music into a much broader roots Americana palette over the years.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: When you sit down to write now, do you think about genre at all, or are you simply following whatever sound serves the song?
13:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's what is so interesting about this record.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: So typically how things were always done in the past, what I would I would write a song on a guitar, and then I would kind of like hear it finished, and then I would work with like an engineer/slash co-producer, kind of to like make what I was hearing in my head come out.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: And on this record, I worked with my dear friend Matt Williams, who's probably the most talented producer musician that I know.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I kind of gave him the reins of just like, I want you to make these instrumental tracks and send them to me and I'll write over them.
14:25
SPEAKER_00: And he was always like, Well, I could edit it this way, and I'm like, No, no, no, no, no.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: You just send me the song, yeah, and I'll write to it.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: And it was such a cool process.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: I've I've just never made a record like that where I like someone else was, you know, I I would throw in my two cents of like, you know, maybe we make this part like a little bigger, you know, but really it was Matt was in charge of the music and I was in charge of the words, which is why I did something that 99% of artists don't do.
14:51
SPEAKER_00: If you look at the track list on the record, his name is on every song.
14:55
SPEAKER_00: Right.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Because he made those songs with me, and I could have just listed him as a producer, like other artists do, and just been like, nope, this is a sad song record, but he made the music for the record, so I had to it felt absolutely ridiculous to me to not have his name on every song because he made the music, you know.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, but him and I have a very special, I've never really felt a collaborative cohesiveness like I do with Matt.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: It's really weird.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: We have very similar tastes.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: Do you feel that maybe that collaboration was also a byproduct of age and maturity?
15:30
SPEAKER_01: Like maybe you couldn't have collaborated in that way, say 10 years ago.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:36
SPEAKER_00: I I think one, I used to kind of be a control freak and wanted everything how I wanted it.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: And then and two, you know, Matt and I we made a song in like 2017 called So Far.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh he produced that whole song, you know, and then Matt and I didn't talk for a long time, and then we were kind of talking again, and then when I had this idea to make the record like this, I kind of just nudged like five, six producers that I knew and kind of pitched the idea, you know, of just like, hey, I'll do a 50-50 split with you, you make the music, I'll put the words on it.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: And the stuff that Matt was sending me, I mean, every single thing he sent me just you know blew my mind.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh my god, this is it.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: So I was just I was in on it immediately.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: There was just he did there's nothing that he showed me that I was like, nah, dude, full miss.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: You know, everything he showed me, I was in love with.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: Again, another kinship moment.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: Like, I know as I got older, I got a little bit more collaborative with people musically than I did whenever I was in my late teens and early twenties.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: Because when I was in my early 20s, I was like, screw you, what are you gonna tell me that I don't already know?
16:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, where I don't know, by the time I was at the end of the game, it was like, dude, I should have been doing this the whole damn time.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and for me, I was always just really obsessed with ownership.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, like I was I was really um really scared of like divvying up the rights to music, and uh that that freaked me out because it had served me so well in buying everybody out from the rip, you know, of just being like, hey, I'm gonna give you 15 grand to help me make this record, and I retain all of the ownership.
17:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, that was kind of how I built my living, was was by doing it that way.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: But I think I just this was the first project that I ever was like, I don't care about any of that.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: I care about how good it turns out.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: All of that stuff is secondary to the vision that I had for the project.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: It just it felt deep, and Matt was just made it known pretty quickly that he was the guy that I was supposed to make this with.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Do you think there are challenges in the modern music industry in regard to people kind of looking at the scope of virality versus longevity?
17:46
SPEAKER_01: I saw you post a story the other day where you were talking about the algorithm, and that's something I fight all the time as a creator.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, a term that you've used or that was used on the intro of your album was hope dealer.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: And I was talking to my friend Maddie Mullins, who sings for Anne Berlin, and he used that term as well the other day.
18:08
SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes whenever we're creating positive content and we're not leaning into the clickbaity stuff and we're not trying to rage bait people, it's almost like we get suppressed a little bit.
18:20
SPEAKER_01: It's almost like the algorithms suppress upbeat stuff.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: And I say all of that whenever you're thinking about the context of trying to market music in the modern music industry.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: How much of that stuff really kind of resonates in your head and kind of messes with you, if you will?
18:38
SPEAKER_00: Man, I mean, when I'm in creating, I don't think about it at all.
18:43
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean, it's like it's a weird line.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know how any of that shit works.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: You know, like I've had one video go viral, and it was my friend and videographer Rowan asking my son if he thinks that I could beat up his friend's dads, and it got it got fucking some like three plus million views.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: It still is getting commented on every day.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what the algorithm wants.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't really care.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not for me to uh I don't know.
19:14
SPEAKER_00: I've seen people, you know, my buddy Nathan, the lead singer of AuroraWave, man, he just he's the only person I've seen that does it, and it's so authentic.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: Like there's no foo-foo in Nathan.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: That's Nathan.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: Nathan has literally gone viral a bunch of times by doing shit that he's like, nope, this is sick, and I'm gonna do it, and it works.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: I just can't, it's just it's just not my cup of tea, man.
19:38
SPEAKER_00: And I and I really believe that one thing that's been special about my career is my music has always found the people that it's meant for.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't have a huge, massive fan base, but the people that fuck with me really fuck with me.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: They really love pretty I could make anything and they would they would support it because they know it's coming from me.
20:00
SPEAKER_00: Which to me is the is the greatest blessing ever.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: Would it be cool to get a little love?
20:05
SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: I think the other thing is is you know, there's these little cliques within the industry, and when someone in that click makes something, that whole crew is gonna is gonna share it and collab on it.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: And if you're not a part of those cliques, bro, it's damn near impossible.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: Even if I'm even if you're friends with them, I got a lot of people that I would consider good friends, but because they're in these little bubbles, you know, the collabs never come through, the shares never happen, and it's you know, it's just what it is.
20:35
SPEAKER_00: I've I've painted myself into a corner with with decisions that I've made, and I've I've just I've kept it unflinchingly real, even to my peril sometimes.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, but I think that's the silver lining about it all is I think the algorithms, if you will, are trending more towards authenticity than maybe they were even a year or two ago.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's pushback from the AI stuff and everything being so synthetic that real is cool again.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: And I tell you what, man, I I lit up when you were talking about Nathan because I remember when he was in that transition from Ayatera to Aurora Wave, his biggest moments of virality were when he was taking emo and screamo songs and turning them into reggae songs on TikTok, and I was like, Bro, he had he invented a fucking genre of music.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes, he invented a genre of music.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: Like me and Nathan have been close for a long time, and you know, I knew a lot of shit that was I I knew all of that was coming before before it happened, and I was just like, man, like a kid on Christmas, I was like, I don't think you realize how many people are gonna fuck with this, bro.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, like there's so many people that love hard music and also love reggae, and um yeah, he's the best dude.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: He's one of the realest dudes of all time, too.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, and I just to throw it out there, so anybody that's listening or watching to this right right now, if If you go listen to Satsong's latest album, there's a track on there called I Know, which is a collaborative track with Nathan Aurora.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: Fantastic song.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't wait.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: Man, I wanted more after that was all said and done.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: We talk about it all the time, bro, because he's someone that like almost I feel like every time one of us is working on a project, we're like, hey, you want to make something?
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Nate is that guy, bro.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: He's just always been that guy for me.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, he always wants to make shit with me, regardless of how anyone else feels about it, or if it might not align with Brandon.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: Like, we just he don't care, bro.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: We he shows me love, you know, and I show him the same love.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: Like, we just have we have a special relationship.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: And he uh he made that whole song.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: So when I was reaching out to people in the early stages of the record, he was one I just reached out, was like, hey bro, you got anything laying around?
22:54
SPEAKER_00: And he sent me I know he made that that whole beat.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: Everything on that record is him, uh huh.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: Everything on that song is him.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he made that himself and was sitting on it for a while.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: He was like, It's a little too reggae for what I'm doing right now, you know.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: And and I my plan initially, dude, was I was gonna have Trevor Hall on it.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: Trevor's a good friend of mine too.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna have him on it, but he dude, he has a five-year-old, a three-year-old, and a nine-month old.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I'm not even gonna, I'm not even gonna bug him, dude.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: So then when when Nathan was like, uh bro, I actually have a verse.
23:29
SPEAKER_00: I have a verse that I recorded for that, I'll send it to you.
23:31
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I had already written all my parts, and the verse was perfect, so we just plugged it in.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk about uh an unofficial member of your project, and that's the state of Montana.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: You've talked about Montana as your heart and soul and the place that gave you space to reconnect with yourself.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: How much of the person making this album exists because you have eventually found your way back there?
23:58
SPEAKER_00: Man, it's such a huge part of who I am.
24:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, there's no um there's no real accolades to be had in the great state of Montana.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: Like, you could be the biggest bull rider in the world, you could be a Grammy Award-winning artist, you could be people don't care, man.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Like, it's a very you could be integrated into the community solely based on the type of man that you are.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: That's that's really the only currency out here, and it's kept me really humble and it's kept me really it's it's kept me in a place where I'm as focused on my personal life and and what I'm curating outside of music as what I'm curating inside of it.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: It's it's a huge part of who I am.
24:37
SPEAKER_01: I love that, man.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, you've spent years turning some extremely difficult experiences into music that gives other people hope and kind of leaning back to that term hope dealer.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: Has that responsibility ever become complicated for you?
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I think the only time that it's ever really gotten you know, when I was, you know, when I had relapsed, we were on a we were on a very long tour.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: And it's a really hard thing to be you know, when we do the VIP sessions, like the stories that people tell me, you would just not believe, man.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: They're heavy, heavy, heavy stories.
25:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: That tour it was tough because it was like a lot of people in VIP telling me that they use my music to get sober and that I was such an inspiration for them.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: You know, and meanwhile, I'm all the way fucked off, you know?
25:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like all the way relapsed, you know.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: But now I I try not to I I receive it, but I don't carry it, you know.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't I tell people all the time, someone will say something like that, like, you know, your music saved my life, or your music got me sober.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: I was like, no, you got you sober, but I'm really, really glad that I could make something that kept your head in the right space for you to keep you sober, for you to not end your life, you know.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: Because I didn't really do anything.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: I don't know him, you know.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm just making stuff that that I can really I'm making music to keep myself sober and keep my hanging, you know, and keep me here.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: So it's like it's it's such a huge blessing that it's that it's landed for people in that way.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: Um but no, now as I get older, man, I'm I I'm fully stepped into it, and I can stand behind everything that I'm making and saying because it's who I am, I'm here now, like I'm not in any sort of transition.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: I am like I am this dude and and I'm grateful to be of service.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: Now, on the human element of it, do you still ever have days where Drew McManus just wants to be Drew McManus rather than the guy people look for for the next piece of wisdom?
26:40
SPEAKER_00: On tour, uh I have I've gotten into a pretty good headspace of when I'm on tour, that I'm I'm just that I have to be in that mode, you know, that it's like that touring isn't work, that it's service.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: So I feel like in the last year I've had more fun touring than I ever have, and it's because I quit being like, oh, well, this is my job and this is how I pay the bills, and you know, have to go to work and started being like, no, this is the service part of your job.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: Like you making music in your office is like that's fun, you know, and then you putting it out is like the completion of that that fun.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: And the touring is service, you know, so it's like I I pray every day to be a man of the people and to be of service.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: So it's like when it's time to show up for that service, it's like I don't even let that that shit in anymore.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there might be a day where I'm like super, super tired and don't feel good or whatever, you know, but at the end of the day, it's like I ask to get to be of service.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: So if I show up for that service work in any uh other capacity other than reverence, like that's on that's on me.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: So I just I don't allow it in anymore.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, if I'm away from home and I'm I'm out there, then I'm out there, you know, I'm out there for that.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: So when you're on tour and you're doing a series of dates, people that are watching this or listening to this might not know, but you're an avid martial artist.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: We talked about Mui Thai and Jiu-Jitsu.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Do you find gyms to kind of blow off steam as a way to kind of moderate that within yourself?
28:14
SPEAKER_00: Kind of.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: I have a bunch of little families, a bunch of little fight families.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times we'll set up the routing.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: So, like if we're doing the West Coast, I'll always want the last show of the week to be in San Diego or Orange County.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Because I have a really solid crew, classic fight teams in Orange County, Triumphal, those are that's like my family.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: So I try to always make sure the last day of um, if it works, you know, that the last day of a of a week can be somewhere where I can go train for a couple days before we have to do a big drive.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's it's so important, man.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: And I work out every day too.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: We park the bus at Planet Fitness a lot, you know, lifting weights every morning is like a huge part of how I keep my keep my brain working like it's supposed to.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: Now you've talked about your Nepal experience being a major turning point and realizing that music was your path.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: Looking back almost a decade later, what do you think that version of Drew would think about the life that you've built now?
29:16
SPEAKER_00: It's funny you asked that.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: I this week I've I got a lot, a lot going on right now.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: We just moved to Bozeman so I could be with my son.
29:26
SPEAKER_00: We we literally planned and had our wedding, and then two days later we moved to Bozeman.
29:31
SPEAKER_00: I have a house in Billings that's not selling, so the financial stress of that is very real.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: But I I've been thinking about that every single day when I kind of start drifting off into the like, man, you know, I'm just just being overwhelmed.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: I think if that that kid saw who I was now and what what my quality of life is like now, he would freak out.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like it's not as big as I want it to be right now in the present moment, but it's way bigger than that kid could probably ever even fathom.
30:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, in kind of going back to it, it's almost like that what I talked about earlier, the virality versus longevity in real life application, right?
30:15
SPEAKER_01: Like if things happen real quick, if people look for viral moments, even in their real life, and they get that quick fix, it is not gonna last.
30:25
SPEAKER_01: Anything that is worth having is going to be a slow burn, and it's gonna be a whole lot of hurry up and fucking wait for lack of a better term.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it feels that way.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: It's funny.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: I like I I hope that me and Jared from uh from Dirty Heads are are are pretty good homies, and he is he's tell it tells me that all the time like, bro, you got that one song in you, and all it takes is one song, and then the whole game changes, you know.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: But to me, when I think about that, what would be cool is you know to be selling two, three thousand tickets a night and have that contingency of the three, four, five hundred people that are like, I've been I've been fucking with this dude since 2016, you know, like like y'all, you guys just got here because of that song.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: I've been listening to this dude from the rip.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: You know, I have a really like I said, I'm so blessed.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: Uh my fans are so real and they're so dedicated, man.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, no, I agree with you.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: I think there's this, like, and you can see it.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of young artists coming up that you can see them fishing for that catchy bullshit about fucking drinking or you know, chicks or whatever, and it's like I just want to contribute.
31:36
SPEAKER_00: I got I feel like I got I I don't feel like I know I gotta answer for everything that I make while I'm here.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: So making some catchy ditty about getting drunk and hooking up, it's like I just I don't want to stand behind that, you know.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: I would rather be like, no, man, something that I made with my entire heart and soul popped.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: Which is funny, man.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: The new Dirty Heads record, like, I I feel like every time I listen to it, I'm just like, dude, this is a really deep record.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: Like it's catchy and has all of the elements to like make the average person want to listen to it, but every one of those songs is pretty fucking heavy, dude.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: Like really hardfelt songs, dude.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk about your live show.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: You're describing the new Satsang live show as an experience, not a show.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: That's a pretty intentional distinction.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: What are you trying to create in that room that people can't get on the record at home?
32:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so this is the first time Matt, the producer, is is coming on on the road with me, and we have just leading up to Red Rocks and the Dylan Amphitheater shows, they were kind of the great unveiling of the project live, you know.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of like, what do we want the live show to be?
32:52
SPEAKER_00: How do we make it that?
32:53
SPEAKER_00: And then Red Rocks and and Dylan kind of gave us some notes playing those two huge shows.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: So the big thing that we're doing that I've never done is the show is in these chunks, so it's like four or five songs all kind of going into each other with no breaks, there's no talking, there's no none of that.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of one chunk, and then we'll play like two old songs, and then another chunk, and then two like a little acoustic section, and then another chunk.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've just never one, I've never put this much intention into a live show.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: Usually it's like I roughly make a set list, I send it to the boys, I'm like, hey, brush up on all these songs.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: Here's the songs we're playing on tour.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, whereas this is like, this is the set, this is the show, here's what the lights are gonna do, here's what you know, like it's gonna be a here's when the intro hits, and I'm rehearsing every day.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: At this new house in Bozeman, I have this great office, but I have my entire tour rig set up, so I'm like with in-ears, tracks, like I'm I I'm taking it really, really serious, and I'm like, I hate doing cardio, but I've been I've been every morning I get on the treadmill after I lift, and I and I run through the new songs as I'm like at a slow-paced jog, so I won't get out of breath on tour.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: Dude, I know that feeling.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know that feeling too well.
34:12
SPEAKER_01: You went from playing small rooms and building an audience organically to touring internationally and developing a very dedicated following.
34:19
SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned the Dylan show and the Red Rock show.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: What does success mean to you now compared to what you thought success meant when you started?
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Because those are some big shows, like especially testing this new live version, testing a new live version at Red Rocks.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, come on, man, that's not a small exercise.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, shout out Jared and Duddy.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: They were the reason that we that we gotta play those shows.
34:46
SPEAKER_00: You know, it came up of who who they were gonna add uh to that show, and they picked me, which is so cool.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: That's dope.
34:55
SPEAKER_00: But I was just like, I don't want to go out there, like if these are a bunch of new fans, why would I go play them a bunch of old shit?
35:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, so it was kind of like let's give them this new shit and let's reel some new people in.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: Because the old the you know, the older fans are gonna ride with us, whatever.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you know, I'm still playing playing smaller rooms, but I think what I'm hoping for with this record is that sonically it it brings in some some new fans, you know, and I hope that we get to go tour it with a bigger band to get some new listeners.
35:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, to me right now what success means is how much of the good in my life can I keep intact while growing sad song?
35:36
SPEAKER_00: Because success to me, like if Sad Song blows up, but I lose you know, I lose the closeness that I have with my son and my wife, then I'm not interested in that.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: So it's like how much thought can be put in as we build this thing, and I feel like I've been really good about that the past couple years of like looking at my life as a whole picture rather than like here's Drew at home, here's Drew on tour.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, this whole thing is my life, and it's like how do we balance the scales to keep a cohesive, healthy person?
36:05
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think for me, like success would be you know that this new music doubles the audience, you know, and gets some new people into the room.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, and I think the mechanics of the modern music industry will allow that, especially post-COVID.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: Like post-COVID era, you know, I talked to the dudes from Story of the Year, I've talked to a lot of these guys, and it's like touring isn't even what it used to be.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: It used to be you were out for six months at a time and you barely got to see your friends and family, and and now it's a series of satellite shows in packets where it does make that work-life balance a little bit more amenable.
36:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for me, what I've realized is three weeks is like the perfect or like 15 shows.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: Because we can do 15 shows in just under three weeks, like with rehearsal, everyone's gone for like 20 days.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: And I really like that.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's you know, week one, you're getting in the flow, week two, you're in it, and then week three, you're super in it, but you're also excited because you're like, oh my god, okay, it's the last week, we really gotta throw it down.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: So doing tours in those chunks is like, I think the way, you know.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: Like we used to do the six to eight week tours, and holy smokes, man.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: I would do it now if it was with the right band, you know, if it was like if dirty had asked us to come out, you know, for an entire summer, I would do it.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: But it would have to be with the right crew.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that makes sense.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: That makes perfect sense.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, kind of looking forward to the future, ten years from now, what do you hope people say Satsung was really about?
37:37
SPEAKER_00: I hope that people will just say that I kept it kept it very real.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, I didn't I didn't I didn't hop on any bandwagons or play to any trends.
37:49
SPEAKER_00: I made really authentic shit the entire time.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: That that really matters to me.
37:55
SPEAKER_00: I think uh I think it's been hard for me to navigate the industry at times because I always just make whatever I feel like making.
38:05
SPEAKER_00: So we got kind of put in that reggae scene, and then I made two like super Americana records, and everyone was like, wait, what?
38:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then I released like fucking 12 hip-hop singles, and then now this record, you know.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: So I think like I just make what I feel called to make.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: And I know that that can be confusing for a fan base, but I I just I put my heart into everything I make.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm not making anything for anyone else's approval or co-sign, you know.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: I just I hope that people uh congrats the authenticity and heart that I put into everything that I make it.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
38:42
SPEAKER_01: And I'll add to that that I think audiences now are a little bit more flexible.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: And I've brought this up a million times on my show.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm anybody that listens to me or watches me regularly are probably like, Mike, shut the fuck up and get over it.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: But I think that's the silver lining of streaming platforms now, is that there are no longer guardrails of identity when it comes to genre, like there used to be.
39:09
SPEAKER_01: People look at music and listen to music just as music anymore.
39:12
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't completely define a genre, doesn't completely define a person's personality, so it gives artists a little bit more liberty to experiment and try things that satisfy the artist than maybe it did in the past.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: Do you feel similarly?
39:30
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: And the fact that music for the most part is free.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: Like, I know it's a double-edged sword, but like if you look at the 70s, 80s, and 90s, if you were in a band and were trying to get your music out to the world, like there was really only one avenue to do that.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: It was that a label thought your shit was good and wanted to invest in you and give you a very lopsided deal where the trade was like, you're not gonna make any money, but everyone's gonna know who you are, you know.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: Like when I was doing my podcast during COVID, G Love, who's a homie, man, when he was telling me about the 90s of getting a record out in the 90s, I was just like, You guys did that?
40:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, you guys took those kind of deals, you know, and it was just like, well, if you wanted people to hear your music, that was just what you did.
40:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:13
SPEAKER_00: But I just think it's like what also was cool is like you could tell a friend, like, hey, check out this band Satsung, and then you leave it up to them to dig into the new shit, the old shit, whatever.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: It's like they, you know, the fact that anyone can pull their phone out and look up a band right now, rather than like, okay, cool, I'm gonna take the bus to the record station, and hopefully they have a record by that band that you just told me about, and if they don't, it's because the label didn't get a record in that shop, you know.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: It used to be almost impossible to get your music in into the the sound economy, and now it's just like that.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: You make something, you upload it, and there it is.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
40:50
SPEAKER_01: So if a person is discovering your music for the first time through this album, through Elohim, what do you hope that they take away from it whenever they're done listening?
41:01
SPEAKER_00: Man, I always just say like I don't want to be I don't make music for like the background of your barbecue.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's not my lane.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: I hope that people listen to it intentionally and can relate to the stories of falling down and getting back up, you know, and I hope I hope they just feel encouraged to uh you know to see their life through a spiritual lens, and that like not all that's not all that feels bad is bad, you know, and that you know the fight is long, the road is long, and I yeah, I just want people to feel encouraged, you know.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
41:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, my friend, my closing question I ask every single guest that does my show, and I love everybody's unique perspectives, but given your experience and your time in the industry, things that you've gone through, what's your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today through your eyes?
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh just be you, man.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: Everybody else is taken.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: And and I there's a there's a great pressure um both in the music industry and just in life in general.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: We live in a very highlight reel-driven culture, you know.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: Nobody shits that shiny, and gratitude is is is the ultimate path to to serenity, you know.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: It's uh we live in a culture where it's really easy to look over the hill and and get very caught up in all the things that you don't have and the things you wish you had.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: And and a practice of mine is every single morning me and my buddy Mo text each other three things that we're grateful for.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: We don't miss a day.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, if you can keep that blessing inventory, you know, keep yourself accountable every every day to think about the things you're grateful for rather than the things that you're not grateful for.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: Your life will get exponentially better, which means everyone around you's life will exponentially get better.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
42:46
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
42:47
SPEAKER_01: Tell everybody where they can find you and your music online, my friend.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: Sad saying, S-A-T-S-A-N-G, you can find me on Instagram, and my music is anywhere that you stream music, uh, you'll find me.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: Um and we have a big release tour coming up.
43:03
SPEAKER_00: November, we're gonna be in the southeast and midwest, and then in January, we're gonna be all over the west coast in the Rocky Mountains.
43:11
SPEAKER_00: So love it.
43:12
SPEAKER_01: Love it.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, Drew, I am so glad we're connected.
43:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad we can call each other friends now.
43:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, likewise, bro.
43:20
SPEAKER_01: Dude, uh, we have so much in common.
43:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't think this is the last time anybody is gonna see you on Caught on the Mike.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we're gonna do this again in the future.
43:29
SPEAKER_01: As a matter of fact, I hope so.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for doing the show, man.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: The world's a much better place with you in it.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: Likewise, brother, thank you so much.