Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 302 - The Many Heights Of Lee Harvey Oswald

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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 302 - The Many Heights Of Lee Harvey Oswald · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Remember like Bob Clark and Doug Campbell.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Rob Clark and Jeb Bordelli.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: In the Heart of Dallas, religions unfold, a tale shadows,
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: mysteries and told, but truth is obscured In the depths
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: of the night, the Lone Gun and Podcast sheds a
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: flickering light.
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: Section one seven of the Fair Use Act of nineteen
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: seventy six provides protection to use copyrighted material for re search, analysis,
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: education and commentary purposes. We hear at Loose Moose Productions
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: reserve that right now, on with the show. Here's Joe
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: b and the Triple b Hey and you Deane house
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: things in Texas.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Everything is going to hail down here in Dustice Chez.
• 1:19
  Speaker 5: Jomoy and Joey Joey and then trumble Bee May and
• 1:24
  Speaker 5: jumble By and Joey Rock Joggy and Joy, trumble By
• 1:29
  Speaker 5: and Joey Joby and drummle Mame and Jumoby and Joey Rop, Docky,
• 1:35
  Speaker 5: Joe Rat.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: Joy Here how it is taken and.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Chef je.
• 1:53
  Speaker 5: Joe Changer.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: And you we go.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: And here we go. What's up? Everybody? This is your boy?
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: The trip will be big bad Bob, This is episode
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: number three hundred and two of the Lingaman podcast The
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Mini Heights of Lee Harvey Oswald and along with Me
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: today and his hurricane shelter? Is they always handsome and scarred?
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Joe Barelli? What's up? Joe?
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Hey? How are you Rob? Happy Friday?
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: It's the birthday boy himself. Folks, it's Joe's birthday. I
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: was gonna sing to him. He doesn't want me to
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: sing to him, so I'm gonna honor his request. But
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: please feel free all of our friends in the comments
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: section to wish old handsome Joe a happy birthday. So
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: what are you now? Joe? Twenty nine thirty?
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: From your lips, let's see, from your lips to God's ears. Yes,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I was born in nineteen fourty seven, bungled. Now let's
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: see if someone I told my agent in the chat
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: before at a past show. Let's see if anyone can
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: get it. Late thirties. But my birthday.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, thank you John, Thank you John for the birthday. Boy.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Have a beer on John.
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: Tonight, Joe, I will so I have offery.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: Nice of John. Thank you John.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: John is the best. Every week.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: So I had plans we were actually going to record
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: this on Wednesday, Rob, because I had plans to go
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: to a fish concert tonight in the Casco Mountains of
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: like the Woodstock venue. It's called Bethel Woods. And that
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: hurricane that I think you went dealt with yesterday, right, Ron.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's when passed a couple of days and then
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: into the day a little bit. It stopped earlier this
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: morning for us, and I guess a couple of hours
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: later for you.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I had it's been raining all day today. I
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: had a couple of friends coming up here to my
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: house and the Catskills or my family's house and seventy
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: acres beautiful place. If some of you will remember, I
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: spent four weeks up here in March, and my friends
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: bailed because of the rain, and I was going to
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: come either. So I said, Rob, let's just do it live. Shoot,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: we should have had the bill O'Reilly thing, like, screw it,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: We'll do it live. And so I came up here anyway,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: and then like during the hurricane, and then it stopped
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: and I checked stub hub and tickets were like fifteen dollars,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: and I was like, you know what, I'll buy it
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: so I might go after the pod.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: So well there you go. Yeah, we're buy a beer
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: on John while there by one hit of acid on John.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: It will be solo. But I've done before. Yeah, I
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I if I could, I would. My friend was supposed
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: to bring but he didn't. He bailed because he's scared
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: a rain.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So it is what it is.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: But yes, as in Fish Colleen with a p H
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: the jam band, and I've seen them more time, probably
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: about fifty times, but not even as close as my
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: other bands. That my top band. But uh so we'll
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: see how it goes. We're taking it as it goes.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: But I would.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: I love nothing more. I was thinking like, should I
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: do the pot on my birthday? Should I not? But
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: there's nothing more I love than being here with Rob
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: and with all our listeners.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: They're damn right. So there's speaking of whom. Let's say
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: hello to some folks in the chat like Trey, first
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: in line?
• 6:05
  Speaker 4: Was up?
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Trey? Any dancer in Let's see South to West is ready?
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Hell comes to play? What's up? Lee? Colleen? Our rocket
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: queen is in the house, bungled and botched. Nothing gets
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: past him. Let's see James Smith, what's up? James? Tit
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: tit to you? Sir. Let's see Sally. Hello Sally from
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: across the pond. Sally, thank you for.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: That.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: Reminds me. Big Mike pointed out that I've been putting
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: the wrong link in all the descriptions for our merch
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: for some reason, because I'm an idiot. Uh yeah, I
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: will fix it shortly. If you would like a working link, uh,
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: just email me at the Loncom Podcast at gmail dot
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: com and I'll get it to you.
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Let's see Scott. Scott is in the house, Scott, John
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: See Betty, Betty is in the house. What's up, Betty? Bobo?
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: Did you say to Lee?
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Hello?
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Moose heaven move seven? What's up? Paul? Jane and Trey? Wow?
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, thank you. Paul. You're the best boom whoa
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: boom or doses on me tonight?
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Oh you are going to be tonight. Joe all right,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: Let me let me reply too, because he had a
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: question and hold on Joe, oh wow, he comes through.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Bam, thank you. I'll give Joe two out of that
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: ten and I'll keep eight. How's that word? All right?
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Go ahead, Joe?
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Sorry, no, I just bungled was asking about my T shirt.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: In nineteen forty seven. So this is actually I've worn
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: a few of these shirts Lifted LRG. It's called Lifted
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Research Group. It's like a designer shirt whatever. Not designer,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: it's not.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: They're only one hundred and twenty dollars a piece.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: No, No, they're like not designer. I misspoke. But as
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: you know, Rob, forty seven is my number. I obsessed about.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: I annoy you with it all the time, and it
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: happens to be the number of this brand. And I
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: like that it says research like the black one I have.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: It says Lifted Research Group, which I like it because
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: we Rob and I are a Lifted Research group.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: Over Jack, Thank you, sir, and Joe. Wow, we are
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: killing Colleen must love you twenty dollars. Thank you, Colleen.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: My goodness, y'all are just amazing tonight.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Yes we we we love you guys. And I I'm
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: not lying. There's if I did want to do the
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: pod tonight, I could have.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Gotten it off. But I will Sally throwing pounds at
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: you from across the pond, Pam, Wow, Sally, thank you,
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: thank you, Sally.
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: And yet it's it's not an exaggeration, like I look
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: forward to this every every week, and uh, you know,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: I love being here with you guys. Also, I appreciate
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: everyone who's here, everyone who gave a super shot. Love
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: you guys, and.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Scott colly Day mm hm wow, whom.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: We might get you the Lancer.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: At this rate, we might get through We might get
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: through this podcast in three hours. Yeah wow, thank you
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: guys so much. Man, you are amazing.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Am Joe realizes it's profitable move to have a birthday
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: every week.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Well, that rate should be older than it's Joe's seven
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: and ninety fifth birthday, folks.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well with that, we'll get right into it. Because John,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: I've actually mentioned this a few times before when we've
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: talked about the Fracas in New Orleans, and we've talked
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: about this a lot, and I've gave little hints that
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: the fracas was on my birthday in previous shows. So
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: today is August ninth, Colleen, the best today is August ninth,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: which is, of course the sixty first anniversary of the
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Fracas in New Orleans with Lee, Harvey Oswald and Carlos Brigner.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: And Carlos hit me pussy.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Come put up your Duke's next fight? Well, rob his hand.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: Lee's hands were behind his back.
• 11:08
  Speaker 6: When he said, Oh, I would It'd be a lot
• 11:13
  Speaker 6: fun This story would be a lot funnier if Carlos
• 11:14
  Speaker 6: would have actually decked him and like knocked him out
• 11:17
  Speaker 6: in the middle of the canal street. I think taking
• 11:21
  Speaker 6: a whole different turn, and we we'll.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: Get into it. But I think that's what Lee wanted,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: and we'll get into why he would have wanted that result.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: But he definitely did try to bait Carlos bring Air
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: into hitting him, and bring Air didn't take the bait.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: He did not hit him. Someone else pushed Oswalt or
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: there's other reports of another person with Oswalt that had flyers,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: and those flyers that went on the ground, there was
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: no puncher's thrown and the police very quickly went in.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: See the way I understand it either was either Briner
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: or one of his buddies knocked the flyers out of
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: Oswald's hand, and that's what almost started to fight. Yeah, yeah,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: but yeah, let's let's let's uh revisit, shall we.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Sure Miguel Cruz and was it Nesto Hernandez? I believe
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: it was for the other two Cuban exiles West also
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Celso Nelson.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, also there is Yes Nelson. We're just making up
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Mexican names.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: As we go along here. But and we go back
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: in time to August ninth, nineteen nineteen sixty three. Yes,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: so before we get into the actual ninth, this isn't
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: a little timeline from Bill Sempachu's essay at the Twelve
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: Who Built the Oswalt Legend, chapter number nine, and this
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: is available for free on Maryferrell dot org. Excellent work,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: amazing work, one of my favorite essays for sure, and
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: the title is Oswalt's provocative actions in New Orleans built
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: his legend August first, and Rob We've talked about this
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: a few times. I didn't even include it. Oswald wrote
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: the fair play for Cuba committee that would be VT
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Lee and told him that he had gotten into a
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: brawl with the Gusanos Spanish for works and a well.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: Known Spanish worms and Cuban.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: Excellen f tet. I'm not even gonna try that for
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: the Cuban exiles. This incident had not happened, but Oswald
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: made sure it did a few days later. Oswalt's target
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: was the Cuban DRE leader Carlos Springe. I'm not one
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: hundred percent sure if it happened or not, but we're
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: not going to get into that now.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Well, it didn't happen on Canal Street, we'll put it
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: that way. We've talked about this before about the alleged
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: fracas outside of the UH. Was it the Habana Bar, yeah, Robert, Yeah,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: whereas Paine's Bar. Apparently there was a fracas in UH,
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: except there were no cameras and no police came, so
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: nobody was arrested and it wasn't called on a field, yes,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: But eight days later there was one that was.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, rob And I think that's the key difference is
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: that it wasn't caught on camera. And I mentioned easter Ling,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: not to be confused with Estraline, but who did witness
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Oswalt allegedly getting kicked and beaten by a few Cuban exiles.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: But so on August fifth was the day that Oswalt
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: visited Brignier's clothing store and introduced himself as an ex
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: marine UH prepared to fight against Castro and helped them
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: train gorillas. He had come to the right place. The
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: diary were attracted to military action and propaganda. Along with
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: those lines, the two men talked for a full hour
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: on August sixth. That the next day, Oswald returned to
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: bring heir store, leaving a copy of his marine guidebook Manual.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: We've all heard that story for sure. Three days later,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: on August ninth, of course, sixty one years ago, a
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: few hours ago, bring here, cys Celso Hernandez and another
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: friend saw Oswald that would be Miguel Cruz leafleting for
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: the FPCC, and realized he was a red marine, which
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I think means was a communist marine and no friend
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: of theirs, as Oswald had foreseen in his letter. The
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: four men argued vehemently until the police came and arrested
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: them all. FBI informant arrests. Pania was watching.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: FBI oh and with outside of his bar eight days
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: before that, allegedly that another incident happened. Interesting, he's in
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: all the good spots, Interesting.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Photographers. FBI photographers were filming across the street. CIA FBI
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: agent William Gaudette watched Oswald hand out the literature from
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: his office August tenth, during Oswalt's short stint in jail,
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: he spent the night overnight. This happened at about four
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: pm on August ninth, Special Agent John Quickley reported that
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: Oswalt was desirous of seeing an agent and supplying to
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: him information with regard to his activities with the Fair
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Play for Cuba Committee in New Orleans. Quickly took down
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: everything Oswald gave him. After waiting for more than a month,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: quickly revealed Oswalt's defection to the USSR. Blah blah blah.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: So August sixteenth, and we're gonna I have a quick
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: little video of this. In a second, oswaldt went out
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: to leaflet again. So this is about less than a
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: week after he gets released from being arrested for disturbing
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: the peace or whatever that's called from from leafleting, he
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: goes out again. And this was allegedly with Banister's five
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: point forty four Camp Street address stamped on his FPCC leaflets,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: which is very interesting because I had honestly thought that
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: was before and Banister had like told him to knock
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: it off. I didn't realize it was so kind of
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: late in sixty three that that he had that on it.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: If this is true, he had some intriguing company at
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: the site, the maintenance superpriser Clay Shaw blah blah blah. Okay,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go in a couple witness statements here.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: We have first New Orleans Patrol Patrolman Frank Hayward on
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: there's an FBI report from November thirtieth, nineteen sixty three
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: on the fracas, and Patrolman Frank D. Wilson was writing
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: in a patrol car. He said, Frank Hayward was writing
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: with Frank Wilson in a patrol car. He said they
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: received a call that a crowd had gathered in the
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: seven hundred block of Canal Street. He said that on
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: their arrival, an individual later identified as Lee Harvy Oswalt
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: was observed to have been passing out leaflets and starting
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: the Fair Play for Cuba committee. He said the crowd
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: was in an agitated mood, I wonder why, and that
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Oswald and three Cubans with whom he had appeared to
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: be arguing with were arrested. He said there had been
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: no fight, but that heated words were being exchanged among
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Oswald and the three Cubans. The rest of his statement,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Hayward continued that Oswalt appeared calm about his arrest and
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: gave the impression that he was almost enthusiastic about going
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: to jail. This is going to be kind of a
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: common theme of this incident here. Patrolman Hayward said that
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: he was present during the brief period of the booking
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: of Oswalt at the First District and that Oswalt had
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: never stated he was a communist. The Warrant Commission was
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: really kind of nailing down, like was d say he
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: was a Communist or Marxist. I'm not sure why they
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: were doing that, but Oswald was evasive, his answer seem
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: rehearst and did not even relate to the questions asked.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: He said, Oswalt advised he was then unemployed, and that
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Patrolman Hayward did not have any recollection. Oh, I'm sorry.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: He did not even relate to the questions asked and
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: wanted to cooperate with the police. So that's interesting. And
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: this next statement here, and I'm going to go pretty
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: quickly here, but this is from one of the Cuban
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: exiles with Bregnier Miguel Cruz, Mariano Cruz, and I'm gonna
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: skip to the end here. He continued that during the arguments,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: the crowd gathered and someone pushed Oswald who dropped leaflets
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: he was carrying. He said, Oswald placed his hands behind
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: his back and told Brigner to hit him. He said
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Brigier refused, and that it was approximately at this point
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: that the New Orleans police arrived on the scene. So
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: there wasn't a fight. The practice doesn't kind of means
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: like a disturbance, right, It wasn't a fight, and I
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: think some people think it might have been more aggressive
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: and physical than it was. But there we're going to
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: go through pretty much a few people here that that's
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: say the same thing, that it was an argument and
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: they did get arrested, and Oswalt seemed to be enthusiastic
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: about that.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting that, uh, the police arrived so quickly.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, you gotta figure, these guys are just arguing
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: in the street. Nobody's throwing a punch. It's been maybe
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: thirty seconds and the cops are already there. Yeah, that sus.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and especially when you put it in context with
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: the amount of arguments like that that must have happened
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: on Bourbon Street in the sixties, right people.
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah street that especially in the French Quarter.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like it's not that weird.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: So it is sus that that people kind of converged
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: on it really quickly.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 21:53
  Speaker 7: Yeah, absolutely, so go next year. Let me say hi
• 22:04
  Speaker 7: to Paul in this little break. He's truckling down the road.
• 22:10
  Speaker 7: Happy you're long for the ride. We're actually we're a
• 22:12
  Speaker 7: long for your ride, so happy to be here.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: So Rob, we've talked about the Doyle film before on this,
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: which is kind of the other film of the fracas
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: sister film will of course, yes, from the John Thomas
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Martin film that of course we've gotten over to that
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: to death. But this is a statement from Jay the
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: So Doyle was a young kid I think it was
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: like fourteen or fifteen who took that film, and of
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: course it was confiscated about the FBI and returned to them,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: and they thought it was edited or manipulated in some way.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: But this is his father's FBI statement from November twenty
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: seven to sixty three. At about four o'clock in the
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: afternoon August ninth, nineteen sixty three, mister Doyle, mister Wilson,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: who was his kind of colleague in the electronics they
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: were going to convention together. We're walking canal Street, approximately
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: a quarter of block behind Missus Doyle, Miss Wilson and
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: their two daughters. As they reached a point approximately in
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: the middle of the block, some five blocks towards Mississippi
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: River from the Jong Hotel, they observed two young men
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: two who were carrying signs which bore pro Cuban inscriptions.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: They had leafless in their hands again plural. One of
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: the men wore in his front a yellow and orange
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: colored sign which bore as the part of its inscription
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: the words Viva la fidel. Based on everyone else that
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: would be Lee Harvey Oswald. As mister Doyle, mister Wilson
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: and their two sons reached the scene, a group of
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: persons who appeared to be Cubans took issue with the
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: two demonstrators, and almost immediately police officers arrived and prevented trouble.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: After after a short discussion, the demonstrators were placed in
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: the patrol car again plural, not the Cubans by the officers,
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: and then taken from the scene. During the argument, a
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: placard carried by the demonstrator not wearing the sign was
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: smashed and the leaflets were torn from the hands of
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: the men and scattered on the sidewalk. The pieces of
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: the placard were placed in the patrol car when the
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: two men were taken away. Interesting motion pictures of the
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: incident were taken by Jim Doyle, fourteen year old son
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: of mister Pat Doyle.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: Wow. So somebody was with Oswald and that's somebody that
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: was with Oswald was arrested with Oswald and you never
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: hear about it. There's got to be a reason why.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: This is something that Garrison was looking at and trying
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: to figure out who and Harold Weisberg was interested in
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: this too, trying to figure out who the guy was
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: that was with Oswald. And they tried very hard to
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: figure it out and find out and they could not. Yeah,
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: but very interesting that that person has also edited out
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: of the Doyle film and the John T. Martin film.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Yep. And if you remember Rob, but Gary Schanner when
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: we were corresponding with him, when we asked him, why
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: didn't he pay more attention to the walker part of
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: the John T. Martin film, he was like, we were
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: just trying to identify who was with Oswalt.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: On the line part. Yeah for Garrison and Berg.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that makes sense.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: So why then was there so much I mean that
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: he's not in the police reports, he didn't go to court,
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: he's not in any of the other testimonies. What's the
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: reason for hiding him when, as we see shortly, Ozma
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: was back out there a few days later giving out
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: more leaflets and we do have video of that, and
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: it's very clear and he has helpers. But what were
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: they trying to hide with the helper on August ninth,
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very very strange. But anyway, that is the anniversary
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: of the street fractice. We just figured we'd bring you
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: a little bit of info about it.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Well, let me I have a fifty four second film,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: rob real quick. Oh yeah, okay, go ahead, okay, so
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: this is from the.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Making full screen.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I will the I'm going to give credit to
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Helmer Rienberg the YouTube JFK website, who has a lot
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: of great videos. You know, we've got to give them credit.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, he's a big fan of the show. What's up, Hilmer?
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, thank you for compiling all these. So this is
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: again August sixteenth. We're talking about what about a week after.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Here we go.
• 27:24
  Speaker 8: This is the first of the series of Latin listening
• 27:26
  Speaker 8: post interviews, and the person is more or less directly
• 27:29
  Speaker 8: concerned with the conflict between the United States and Cuba
• 27:32
  Speaker 8: and such a cut programs. We will present talks with
• 27:34
  Speaker 8: people who are connected with the Cuban refuge, the organization,
• 27:37
  Speaker 8: people who are connected with President of Batista and US
• 27:40
  Speaker 8: citizens with direct states and the outcome of the human situation. Tonight,
• 27:44
  Speaker 8: we have with us a representative and probably the most
• 27:46
  Speaker 8: controversial organization connected with Cuba in this country, the organization
• 27:51
  Speaker 8: the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. The person Lee Oswald,
• 27:55
  Speaker 8: Secretary of the New Orleans Chapter two, the Fair Player
• 27:57
  Speaker 8: for Cuba Committee.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: This organization belong bit on the.
• 28:00
  Speaker 8: Justice Departments Blacks and as a group that generally considered
• 28:03
  Speaker 8: to be the leading procrast in the nation.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: That's a pretty good quality there when you can compare
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: it to the other films.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Huh yeah, yeah, good stuff.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: So then you got to wonder, why is that such
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: good quality? I mean, I guess it was the news station, right,
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: But how did they know? Did they just were they
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: just peruising the streets and they see Oswald again or
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: he went to do the first radio interview.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: But we talked about this before in the show or
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: I did. One of the two was it was a
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: dude worked in the trademark, Jimmy Core, James Core, he's
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: one of tipped off WDSU. There was a guy that
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: worked in the trademark. He saw Oswald handing out leafless
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: in front of the trademark. So we called radio the
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: TV station and they came right over because they were
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: close by. I think they were like across the street
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: or maybe open around the corner or something. They weren't
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: too far away, but and he knew somebody there. But
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: so yeah, very very suspect stuff there.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: Very suss so sixty. You know, we've covered obviously a
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: lot of aspects, including the videos, but you know, let
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: us know in the comments here, was it staged? Do
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: you think do you think it was genuinely? The Cuban
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: exiles were pissed at Oswalt because he was kind of
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: playing both sides. I'm kind of moving away from the
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: CIA against CIA type of infiltration. I saw that that's funny,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: and it obviously wasn't. It didn't deter Oswalt because he
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: was back out there a few days later. Then he
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: was going on the radio, and then obviously carp launch
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: with the INCA Guy Butler and and Brgier. So, I
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: mean this was a this was a coordinated pr effort
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: and I don't know the who coordinated it, but.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: This crazy interesting. Joe hold On, So turn Horse brings up,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: what's the proof of the five forty four m Street
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: stamp on the fly Well? I admit that I was
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: told one thing by oh Man, I get it right
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: off the bat. Uh's a who's a Loane Nutter? I
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: have in my show on Teage Conspiracy Free Fred Litwin.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Fred Litwin said that none of these pamphlets contained five
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: forty four Camp Street and it was just done for
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: the movie. JFK. That is in fact not true. There
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: is evidence and Garrison had it from back then that
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: he did that he did have five forty four Camp
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Street stamped on the flyers, and as Joe said it
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: was it was more than likely the the August sixteenth
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: flyers that had it on there. The first ones had
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: his head his address. Yeah, because Carlos Q. Rogo went
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: to visit him before that.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it is true that Lee Oswell had five
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: forty four Camp Street on those pamphlets on August.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Sixteenth, yep, Bill Bill Simpitch and that little outline on
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: my first slide said that the August sixteenth Flyers did
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: have the five forty four Camp Street on it, And
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: you know Bill Simpitch is going to have that backed
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: up and documented and it's.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: All five ways from Sunday turned.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but that makes that that's an even weirder question
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: because then why if say, five forty four Camp wasn't
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: on it on August ninth, why would you put it
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: on there for August sixteenth after you get arrested? Doesn't
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: make sense?
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think there are some still out there,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: for sure are somewhat. I know, the five forty four
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: Camp Street Flyers, there's enough. I don't know if they
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: still don't exist, there's at least photos of them, contemporary
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: photos of.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: That one right here, sir. No. But I'm saying, why
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: would the August ninth Flyers not have five forty four
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: Camp on them but after you get arrested? Because in
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: the JFK movie, wasn't there a scene where Banister was like,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: knock it off, don't put that address on the flyers
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: type of thing.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: Well, again, we're talking about a Hollywood movie here, no, no,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: But why in that week after you get arrested, would
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: you then put Banister's office on the flyers.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Well, that's that's the million dollar question.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. It doesn't make sense. So it's
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: very interesting though, So sixty one years ago today.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Probably sadly she claims to have a lot of things
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: that are wrong. She may have picked it out of
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Oliver Stern's pocket when she was giving him a full
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: body hug. But yeah, okay, so yeah, that was the
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: little homage to the anniversary that is. And now we're
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: going to get into the part of the show that
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: we're all here for, and that is the many heights
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: of Lee Oswall And this is about folks. As close
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: of an episode, you're going to get to the Lone
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Guman podcast doing Harvey and Lee. Okay, there's been many
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: requests throughout the years for us to talk about Harvey
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: and Lee or you know, all of this stuff, but
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: trust me, it is a deep, deep topic, one of
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: which look, neither one of us is John Armstrong. You know,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: I would just say if you're that interested, get the book,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: get the documents. You know, it is what it is.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: Part of the heights discrepancy. And it's not just height,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: but part of the heights discrepancies is what fuels the
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: premise for the book, Harvey and Lee, because you know,
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: we have all these witnesses saying that Oswald there's a
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: certain height. We have all these witnesses saying that he
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: has these different color eyes, different color hair, one si
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: and some say one thirty five, which is a thirty
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: pound difference, which is pretty decent. Although I would say
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: either one of those is a very lightweight male. Maybe
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: not in nineteen sixty three, but today, you know, I'd
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: probably picked Oswald up over my head and tossed him
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: over the fence. You know what I'm saying. But just
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: to give you guys an idea about some of Oswald's
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: different type discrepancies and where they come from. I came
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: across in November fourteenth, nineteen sixty eight memorandum to Jim
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Garrison from lou Ivan, and it says you wanted to
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: know when Oswald was, how tall and where here it goes.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: This list is far from complete, but I'll give you
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: what I've gotten together so far. So in volume twenty
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: of the Warren Commission Files or whatever, they're called Page
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: two seventy seven. Priscilla Millan Johnson notes in Russia in
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty nine that she says Oswald was five eleven
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: with brown hair, gray eyes, and one hundred and fifty pounds.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Volume eleven, page eighty nine, Carrie Thornley describes Oswald as
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: being about five five, one hundred and forty pounds, possibly
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: one thirty, gray or blue eyes, hair tending to bauld
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: a little on each side, and sloppy habits. Now, either
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: Carrie Thornley is seriously effing with somebody here, because five'
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: five is way off, I mean way off. So either
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: he's he's effing with him, or he never met Oswald,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: one of the two, and he's just guessing, my guess,
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: knowing carry Thor's personality, he's screwing with somebody, namely the
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Warren Commission. And for what's the reason, I don't know.
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: On Volume eleven, page two twenty one, Pamela Mumford speaking
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: of recognizing Oswald from the picture on television and how
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: her traveling companion recognized him. But she said the thinning
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: hair on top, the thinning, curling, wiry hair. And this
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: is from the nineteen sixty three Mexico trip, no heightsgiving
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Volume sixteen of the Warren Commission, Page six twenty two.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: Oswald's application for the Albert Schweitzer College Show, written by him,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: under land of birth, he answers America. Ordinarily an American
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: would put Usa his height on the application he gave
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: as five eleven one sixty. So this is allegedly Lee
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Harvey Oswall. In nineteen fifty nine, on his application for
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Average Wetscher College, allegedly written by him, he puts five
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: eleven one sixty. Now, this little coy descriptor here is
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: basically insinuating that somebody else filled out this application for
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: oswaldt Volume sixteen, page forty three of the Warren Commission
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Report application for Texas Driver's license, he gives a height
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: as five to nine weight one forty six okay, Volume nine,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: page two thirty eight. George de Mornshield told George Bowie,
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: don't be scared of him. He's just as small as
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: you are. Mister Jenner then said, yes, but George Bowie
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: is a very small man, insinuating that Oswald was somewhere
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: around five five five six. Volume eighteen, page three ninety
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: or three eighty eight, Marguerite Oswald described her son Lee
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: as five foot ten, one sixty five eyes, blue hair,
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: light brown, and wavy. This was a description given in
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty and she had last seen him when he
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: got his hardship discharged and come home for a couple
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: of days. Marguerite as a tiny woman, and any man
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: of five ten or five eleven would look large to her.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: I can't tell from this report of things where Marguerite
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: got the description from a document or from her memory.
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: Interesting Volume twenty six, page seven from the port case
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: record face sheet made at the time of Lee Harvey
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Oswald's arrival back in New York on June thirteenth, nineteen
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: sixty two. Get this one slim five foot six, page eight.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: Upon boarding ship, I tried to locate mister Oswald and
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: his family. He was already cleared by immigration. He was
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: wearing a gray suit, light blue tie, and about five
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: and a half feet tall. That's from SPA's ranking. God
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: a lot of the discrepancies here, Folks. Volume twenty three,
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: page seven, forty one. An application for employment from July thirteenth,
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: nineteen sixty two. Give me he gave his height a
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: five to nine, page seven forty three on his Selective service.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: What date in sixty two, July thirteenth.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Okay, so a month after he got back from the master.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I guess he was looking for a job, and
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: that's what we're doing. Five nine.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: I did hear you?
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Selective Service registration card. Height five eleven hair, brown eyes, blue,
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: weight one fifty. Date of this is September fourteenth, nineteen
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: fifty nine. From page seven forty four report of transfer
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: of discharge, height seventy one inches, which equals five to eleven.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: I think, doesn't Yeah, this is the day In October twelfth,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: nineteen fifty nine, from page seven forty five his applicate
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: an application for employment in gold Rings in New Orleans,
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: height five foot nine. I find it interesting that under
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: the case of accident sin word I, he gives the
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: Moretz address, but gives the name Oswald and parents as
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: their relationship. Okay, page seven forty seven. Another application for
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: employment on October fifteenth, nineteen sixty three, he gives his
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: height as five to nine. Page seven fifty two. Application
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: for employment on October the fourth, sixty three. This was
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: after he came back from Mexico and stated at the
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: YMCA on the night of the third and before he
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: appeared out, Irving gave his height as five foot nine,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: page sev fifty three application for employment in New Orleans
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: height five to nine, page eight nineteen. On his passport
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: from June twenty fifth, nineteen sixty three, Height five eleven,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Volume nineteen, page five eighty four. The medical examination in
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: September of fifty nine in the service gives height as
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: seventy one inches just five eleven, weight one fifty hair, brown,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: eyes gray. His bill is given his medium rather than slender.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: This examination was on his release from active duty. This
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: five eleven Marine then went and got a passport on
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: which his height still is five to eleven, shows up
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: in Russia and has pictures taken with Marina, who is
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: a little girl five foot two. His pictures do not
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: show him towering over as he would if he were
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: in the same person who had been who had been
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: in the Marines? Wait, Marine five to two, Yeah, I
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: never knew that. Yeah. And if you look at all
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: the pictures with Oswald and Marine out there together, he's
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: not towering over by you know, eight inches right, nine inches,
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: which lends credence to the Harvey and Lee theory that
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: the person that went to Russia and came back is
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: not the same person that was in the Marines. So
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: you know, valid argument there. And then Priscilla McMillan Johnson
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: think he said this before, but the newspaper woman who
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald reports him as five eleven with
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: brown hair and gray eyes. It's interesting that the taller
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Oswald is the gray eyed one, in the shorter one
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: has blue eyes. This is a pretty consistent pattern through
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: the descriptions. Marguerite describes him as blue eyed and having
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: light brown, wavy hair. The Oswald who entered the United
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: States in New York was five foot six and couldn't
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: possibly be five eleven, even allowing for a couple of
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: inches a mistake.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: That's a big difference. Five inches, that's half a.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Volume nineteen, page six point fifteen. On his
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: enlistment physical exam in nineteen fifty six, he is sixty
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: eight inches or five eight one thirty one. He probably
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: grew a little bit after an ind of service, because
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: he was just seventeen when he went. In twenty seven,
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: page seven thirty, report of John Fain says that the
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: following description of Oswald was obtained through observation and interrogation.
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: So John fayme FBI agent, gives Oswald's tightest five to
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: eleven ice gray hair brown, and this is from his
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: first meeting with Oswald June twenty six, sixty two and
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: fort Worth. So we have a five foot six Oswald
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: coming back into the US, going to Robert's house at
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: forth Worth, and growing five inches in time to be
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: observed by John Faine thirteen days later. Becky can't make
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: this stuff up, folks. But we're not done yet. Volume nineteen,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: page three ninety seven, a Texas Employment Commission document in
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: October sixty two. Height five to nine, weight one fifty,
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Volume eighteen, page four eighty two. Let me throw this
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: in here as long as I just now came across it, and
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: may forget it. This thing is, apparently Marina is our own
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: description of herself. She will notice that it says height
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty centimeters, which equals five feet. Interesting,
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: I'm five to two and healed ji.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, did she understand the difference of the different like metrics?
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: Probably? See if you can read the original on the
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: opposite page. Blah blah, it's awfully pale in the book,
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: Volume eighteen, page four seven. Pardon me, here's a peculiar
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: mistake under number three New Orleans, Texas, given it's a
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: place of birth. You ever been to New Orleans, Texas?
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: Joe, I have not. I heard It's dope.
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great place to visit. This mistake of
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: Texas as place of birth occurs one other place, and
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: that is in the Marine records Donovanidian Exhibit number one,
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Volume fourteen, page six or seven, at the very bottom
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: of the page. Oswald himself wouldn't have made this mistake,
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: but a foreign fellow impersonating it might have. Volume eighteen,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: page one sixty one on his fifty nine passport, height
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: five eleven, brown haired, gray eyes, Volume eighteen, page one
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: forty three. The last paragraph of the letter contains an
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: interesting statement. Rusk, the writer of the letter, says, it
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: is assumed that there is no doubt that the person
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: who has been in communication with the embassy is the
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: person who is a passport or who has a passport
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: in the name of Lee Harvey Oswald. See early Hoover
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: memo about someone impersonating Lee Oswald and using his passport
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: and birth Certificate, Volume twenty two, page eight twenty eight
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: the New Orleans Pde Identification August fourteenth, on the occasion
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: of arrest we just talked about here, folks gave his
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: height as five nine is brown complexion ready ready uh
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: weight six. There's an affidavit by Martello in which he
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: says an arrest of a person he is simply asked
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: questions about his height and weight, but then on booking
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: of a person he is measured and weighed. I think
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: that is interesting that such an affidavit would have what
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: even was even taken on the subject. Someone besides me
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: notice all this height business, but chose to skip over it.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: I know that this is erradically written, but if I
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: had gotten it done in any order, heaven knows when
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: I would have gotten the information to you. I suggest
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: you go through this, taking all the five nines in
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: their dates and all the five elevens in their dates,
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: and you'll see that a fellow who went to the
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Marines at five to eight came out supposedly growing to
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: five eleven in September fifty nine. He then applied for
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: a passport on which his height is still five eleven.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: I find no description of his height while in Russia,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: although except for the Priscilla Johnson thing, a five to
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: six Lee Oswald comes back to the United States, becomes
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: five to eleven when interviewed by John Fame, and then
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: shrinks until his passport of June sixty three, when he
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: sprouts the other two inches again. What this all means
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: is anybody's guests, and my guess is that the impersonation
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: started in the Marines. Carrie Thornley said that Oswald he
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: knew was five to five. So let's say that he
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: knew the Lee Harvey Oswald that went into the Marines
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: as five eight but looked smaller. Bill Boxley said that
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: the CIA has successfully put over impersonations so that even
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: mothers were fooled. Please remember, and Marguerite wanted to believe
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: that her son had come back to her. She was
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: crushed when he defected and needed to believe that this
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: was the same This person that came back from Russia
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: was her son. Okay, so very interesting stuff. You have
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: varying heights from five to five, five six, five eight,
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: five nine, five ten, and five eleven. And like I said,
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: that's from about when I say before Joe twenty eight
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: when I counted them up, twenty eight different instances. Crazy,
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: that's insane.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: It's yeah.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: And now I want to show you, Okay, I'm gonna
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: show you a couple of pictures here.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: We had a couple of questions in terms of should
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: it be possible to approximate this height by the passing
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: out of a Flyers movie? I think the one we
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: showed earlier, comparing to a traffic light or something that
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: would be hard. But I think we have better things
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: to put them up against, Like a lot of the
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: DPD officers, his dpdos have had his height behind him. No,
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: and that's leaving it off to you.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: Well, he was arrested on August ninth after this thing,
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: and he was given a booking photo. Okay, but the
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: first one we're gonna look at and we'll get there
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: to ruin horse, trust me. First off, let's look at
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: this one a Lee Harvey Oswald, and this is when
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: he first into the Marines. Now, what you don't see
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: here is his actual height because it's cropped, and this
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: is the picture that people find most often. So I
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: found an uncropped version.
• 51:08
  Speaker 9: Oh nice, okay, fifty nine five foot nine, okay, Okay, huh.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, got it.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you know, I guess if they take it.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: No, I was up there. I'm sorry, you're right, you're good.
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, No, this is just it's in feet o.
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: God.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: So this is Oswald in the Marines. I don't know
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: if this is when he first went in.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: It looks like I said.
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: He was five to eight, and I don't know if
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: they take off a little bit for the hair.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: He has a crew cut there.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he looks like he's a legit five.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: Nine yep, right on the line. Based on this pot.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: So then we have Oswald was arrested in New Orleans
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: and as you can see from this photo here, they
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: took a close up of a side view, a front view,
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: and then a full body shot with his sexy looking
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: hips there. It's a little swishy hips. But now, what
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: you can't really see in this photo is how tall
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: he is. So I zoomed in as much as I could.
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's five nine or five to ten. You see
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: the two, four, six, the zero That is probably the eight,
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: and then above it is probably five ten, which might
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: have grown an inch since five to nine is my
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: initial reaction.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: From this photo. Yeah, this is a five let's see
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: four six eight. Yeah, this is a five to ten
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: in New Orleans. Okay, now you gotta remember for this.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: We can see from this photo that Oswald is wearing
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: shoes in this photo.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that could be an inch, That could be
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: an inch which was shrinking back down to five to nine.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right now. What we don't know is how and
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: maybe somebody out there knows, but how the Marines or
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: any of the armed services figures out your height? Are
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: you in boots or did they make you do with barefoot?
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: I know Trey was in the Air Force, maybe he
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: can answer that, but.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't think they measure your height with boots on.
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: But who knows, I mean in the in the Army,
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Maybe they did back then, maybe
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: they don't now, but yeah, possibly. So check this one out.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: So this is a poster of the evolution of Lee
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald. It's got about just every just about every
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: photograph known of Oswald starting when he was a young
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: child up until Jack Ruby shot him. And when you're
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: talking about the Harvey and Lee thing, or an Oswald
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: double or someone impersonating Oswald, you know there is a
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: lot of fuel for that fire. Because some of these
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: photos of Oswald don't look like Oswald. Some of them
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: you can tell there's very obvious different facial features, especially
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: the chin. The chin is a big, big red flag
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: on some of this stuff. You might be able to
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: see it a little better here in this one the
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: many faces of Lee Harvey Oswald. Okay, in the middle
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: or actually on the top, you know, we have his
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: entrance into the Marine Corps photo where he has a
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: very pointy looking chin. Joe see the top rope, very
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: pointy chin yea. And in the middle road he has
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: a very square looking chin. It's not pointy, right, And
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: then on the bottom it looks like a cliff chin.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Very weird. But this is what fuels the suspicions of
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: an Oswald impersonator.
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: To the other photo. And I'm not trying to uh
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: uh pooh poo here, but if you look at it
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: his left side of as in like the right side,
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: as we look at it here, seems to be a
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: similar hairline in all of them. And I'm not looking
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: at the chin. I'm just looking at the hairline. It
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: seems like there's a little like receding hairline. A little
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: more on the right. I don't know the way it's
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: just combed. It seems kind of consistent. No, I get that,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: and I'm just pointing that out just objectively. I'm I'm like,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: very like not decided on on the whole Harvey and
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: Lea thing. So but you know, we have to look
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: at the chin. You have to look the hairline in
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: the ears, the noses, but the chin definitely looks different
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: for sure.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: So there's a bunch of other photos of Oswald from
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: various times of his life.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: Does he have in the middle in the second row.
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: Now, well, that's one that's an interesting photo that people love. Well,
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: this was taking when he was in the Marines, and
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: and this was a picture that ran in a newspaper
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: of Lee Harvey Oswald. And I don't know if it
• 57:08
  Speaker 2: was just one of those things where like, you know,
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: local boy joins the Marines or local marine defects the
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Russia type thing, and this was like some file photo
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: they had of Oswald. But it's a very odd one
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: for sure, very weird looking version of Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: And there's a couple of weird versions of Lee Harvey Oswald,
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: like the one at the bottom second from the right.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I see that.
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: That's an odd one. And and that's supposedly legit. That's
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: from his brother Robert's book as a picture of Lee
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: when he was like sixteen or seventeen, the full body picture.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: I think they were honey he has he has a
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: rifle between his legs. That's another odd picture. And then
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: we got this stuff again. This goes year by year. Okay,
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: so starting to left, nineteen fifty two at the top,
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: at the bottom nineteen fifty three, that's the Bronx Zoo photo.
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: Nineteen fifty four, that's from a yearbook photo where Alsold's
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: missing a tooth. The other bottom photo is from nineteen
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: fifty four as well. Then the top one in fifty six.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: I guess when he first got his marine photo taken.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Or maybe that's that can't be right. He didn't go
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: into the Marines in fifty six, unless that's a cap photo.
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know, or Armstrong got the date wrong. I
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: don't know. At the bottom you have fifty six again
• 58:58
  Speaker 2: when he's in high school and talking to his science girlfriend,
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: not very bigger. And then we got the top fifty
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: seven again. Uh. And then at the bottom his fresh face,
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: big helmet, dopey looking Lee Oswald and then nineteen fifty
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: eight at the top that is supposedly a picture front
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: and that's I think this one is from Robert's book
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: as well, when Lee was home on Lee from the
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: Marines and they went hunting. That looks nothing like Lear
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Oswald bro nothing.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: The hairline is significantly different.
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: It is whacked. It looked like somebody drew like a
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: poof or something on top of his head. I don't
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: know where he got a weird haircut.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: At the Queen Beer.
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's bad, very bad.
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Now at the underneath that we have, there's one from
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: n teen fifty eight and this is supposedly Oswald, but
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: it looks like he has a beard. Do you see
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: what I'm seeing? Or maybe it's just the shadow on
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: his face, which one the nineteen fifty eight on the bottom.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's a beard. It could be some scruff.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: It might be a shadow or something.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be a little scruff. I'm not sure
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: if it's a beard because there's note on the chin.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: It seems woe.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: And we got a top passport photo nineteen fifty nine,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: and then below that I'm home for a couple of days,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: Lee Oswald nineteen fifty nine, right of the Marines. Seems
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: like his hair is growing out a little bit there,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: But weirdly enough, he was only home for three days
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: before he left to go to Europe. But if his
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 2: hair grown out that much, I mean, I don't know.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: Very weird stuff going on here.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: And hey Roberts, I have something to add on this.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: And this is right up Garden and guns Alley, because
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: every once in a while I look on on Facebook, right,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: I mean Facebook on eBay to see like what JFK
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: stuff is out there, and this happens to be in
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: nineteen fifty seven, Lee Harvey Alwall in Yearbook. We almost
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: have enough super shots one thousand dollars to.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Get it a thousand dollars.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 1: Bro, Yeah, it's crazy, but this is apparently a fort
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: worth thing of Lee Harvey Oswalt.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: This is obviously you are a sad that thing in
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: blood for one thousand dollars.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Well, I know, but things on eBay are crazily priced, right,
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: So it's just I was just perusing here. It looks
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: like a legit, don't It looks like a legit Yearbook
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: and that's why I'm shouting out gardenand gum, Yeah, because
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: I follow her Twitter and uh, but very interesting that
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: And I don't know if these pictures are available or
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: just not in that thing that you shared, but very
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: interesting nonetheless, I mean.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: What is well, yeah, that's the one I said was
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: with his science girlfriend. If you go to your left, Joe,
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 2: where all the other pictures are, you go to the
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: very bottom picture. It'll blow that one up.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this one.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it says bing, you're hypnotized if Joe stops
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: moving to goddamn screen.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Sorry, yeah, that that's you're right? Is that's his
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: science girlfriend Janet Bowling. I was joking, Oh, ok, it's
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: it's not Judy, I know. Oh well sorry, I don't
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: know if anyone else. I think that's the only picture
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: of Lee there. But yeah, no, you're you're being hypnotized,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: which is of course very.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: Suss when we talk about and unless I mean, girls
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: in high school aren't normally five nine or five ten.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: And that check was maybe an inch shorter than Oswald.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: So is that a version of the five five five
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: six Oswald? I don't know. But another one's interesting is
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: if you take half of a person's face and flip it. Right,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: they're flopped, so it should give you like a proportionate
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 2: version of a person. Right. So what's interesting is on
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: the on the left hand side, it is the is
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: the right side of the face flopped and mirrored. And
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: on the the left, on the right side, is the
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: left half of the face flipped and mirrored. And they
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: look like two totally different people. Isn't that crazy? Like
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: the one on the right looks more like you know,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald. Yeah, the one on the left looks
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: like a giant neck brute, you know what I mean
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: at that neck, very very weird.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: And then of course we have this famous John Armstrong
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: Harvey and Lee photo that is apparently to me, I agree,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: it looks photo shopped as hell or what you know,
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: what their version of a photoshop was back then, because
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, even the tide looks split on one on
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 2: the right. You see what I'm saying. Yeah, I mean,
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 2: this is a crazy picture of Lee Harvey Oswald. It's
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 2: got to be a composite. Yeah, I mean you can
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: almost look at his face on the right and see
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: where it's split like a little dag.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: The right he looks older on the right, the left
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: looks significantly younger.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: In my opinion, maybe it's just but it's a very
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: weird picture, very weird, yea.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: So we have to be careful when comparing side by
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: sides like that, because you know, you can you can
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: make something pretty compelling by comparing two pictures, say taking
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: a different angle or or light or whatever. I just think,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: you know, we have to have some caution with with
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: every side by side because they can be made to
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: look like it's not the right person based on different photos.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: Well that's the same photo, but well you know what
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: I mean. Yeah, I don't, but okay, let's move on. Okay. Now,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: what also lends credence to the Harvey and Lee theory, folks,
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: is this here document from December TEWOD nineteen sixty three.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: Fred Moore of Dallas, Texas, employed as a clerk at
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: the Jeffy Store at three ten South Industrial, Dallas, Texas,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: advised of the following concerning a report that he'd waited
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: on Lee Harvey Oswald as a customer at the Jeffy
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: store at about eight thirty in the morning and again
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: later in the morning on November twenty second, nineteen sixty three.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: Now we know that a Lee Harvey Oswald was working
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: at the book depository at these times, so identification of
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: this individual as Oswald, Moore said, arose when he asked
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: him for id as to proof of his age for
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: the purchase of two bottles of beer. Moore said he
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: figured the man was over twenty one, but the store
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: frequently requires proof by reason of past difficulties with local
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: authorities for serving beer to miners. Much of the beer
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: sold as is consumed on the premises. When I asked
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: for identification, this customer in question said sure, I got
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: id and pulled a Texas driver's license from his billfold,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: which Oswald allegedly did not have one. Moore said that
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: he noted the name appeared as Lee Oswald, or possibly H.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: Lee Oswald. He remembered this particularly, he said, as moments
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 2: later he had remarked to George Worthington, the store manager,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: who came into the rear of the store after this
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: individual left, that Lee Oswald was a good Jewish name.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: As Moore recalled, the birth date on the license was
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 2: nineteen thirty nine, and he thought it to have been
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: the tenth of the month further identification of this individual
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: was Oswald, Moore said, arose when he had seen Oswald
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: on television in the course of his travel from the
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: DPD prior to being shot by Ruby. At this time,
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: he recalled the name and identification of Oswald as the
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: customer in his store on the previous day. Now that's
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: a pretty good I went in the statement there, Joe,
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: but it highly conflicts with the narrative. Okay, So when
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: shown a photograph of Oswald from the New Orleans Police
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: Department dated August ninth, nineteen sixty three, however, Moore said
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 2: that the man in the store appeared to have been
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: thinner in the face. Moore described this individual as follows
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: grace white male, about twenty one five eight five nine,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty pounds, dark hair, hallowed cheeks, tight shirt,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: other description of which not recalled. A sweater of which
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: color and type unknown, no hat, no glasses. The time
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: of Oswald's presence in the store on the morning of Friday,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 2: Moore said, was difficult to play. He came in and
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 2: departed before the manager, George, had come to work, usually
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: this being between nine and ten. Moore had the television
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: turned on and this occurrence was prior to the President's
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 2: arrival at love Field. The individual, whom Moore considered to
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: be Oswald, entered the store alone, approaching from a side street.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 2: While in the store, this individual purchased two bottles of beer,
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: either Pearl or Jack's in throwaway bottles at twenty five
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: cents each, which he paid for with the dollar bill
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: or change. He took the beer from the store, but
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 2: returned in less than thirty minutes to buy two pieces
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 2: of Peco brittle at five cents of peach, which he
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: ate on the premises. Moore remarked to him in the
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 2: form of a question, candy and beer, as he considered
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: this to be an odd combination. This is another reason
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: for his recollection. The man seemed to be nervous while
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: in the store, pacing the aisles as he ate the candy.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 2: Several other persons were in to store at this time
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: and saw this individual. So Joe I got curious, where
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: the hell is this store at? Right? Yeah, well, three
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: ten South Industrial does not exist anymore. The street name
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: has been changed to North and South Waterfront Boulevard. Okay, now,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: if you look on this map, the section I have
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: circled on the right is the sixth floor museum at
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 2: Deallely Plaza where it is now you can see where
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: Daly Plaza is from the you know, converging three streams
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: of traffic there. Now, what this does is it goes,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: of course over through Commerce Street and you would make
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: a right on what was then Industrial to get to
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: the Jiffy store. Now, if you looked all the way
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: at the left, okay, you got to go across the
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: Trinity River to get to North Beckley Avenue where Oswald
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: was stayed. That's where his rooming house was. So this
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: kind of gives you an idea of where this Jiffy
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 2: mart was. Okay, Now, is it possible that Oswald could
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: have left sometime in the morning of the twenty second
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: and walked all the way to this door to get
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: beer and pico brittle? Doubtful. But somebody who was going
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: to be involved in the assassination using a Lee Harvey
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: Oswald identification false identification, surely was pretty damn close to
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: Daily Plaza that morning before the shooting. Maybe having a
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 2: couple of beers to calm his nerves and a little
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: bit of pico brittle, you know, to calm his stomach
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: a little bit.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: And Rob, so the fact that you said he was nervous, right,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: had to have a couple of beers, right, something to
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: eat to calm himself down. From everything we've heard from
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: even when Oswald was arrested after the text theater and
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: like we went over a few minutes ago, and when
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: he was arrested in New Orleans, he was very calm.
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: Everyone was like, this was he was almost rehearsed nothing,
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: you know, and by all accounts, Oswald didn't drink so right,
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: at least very little maybe back in but knowing that
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 1: he was at work this day, whoever was in the
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: Jiffy Mart had false Oswald identification, which is I'm saying
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: it's not consistent with his character to be super nervous.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: No, I know, but what I'm saying is this could
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: be the guy this shot tippet and threw down the
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: fake Oswald wallet.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: For sure, and Rob, this is what Okay, No, you're good.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: I'm trying, Joe, I'm trying to continue.
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: This is.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: The current location of the Jeffy Mart in Dallas, and
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: it is by two bail bonds plays on the right.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: It is now a law office I guess for recently
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: released criminals from jail. But this is where the Jeffy
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 2: mart stood in the shadows of the buildings of Dallas,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: with the big tall buildings of Dallas. So very interesting,
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: very interesting stuff there for cheesy. Now, Joe, what what
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: what would you like to say, sir?
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, could you go back a
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: couple slides to that that five eight five nine dark
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: hair description you had of Oswalt? It was like two
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: or three things back. It was from the New Orleans
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: arrest because I had shared something with you before the
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 1: show that I found a description of Oswalt based on
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: his marine I D when he was arrested, and it's
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: very different. And I guess I'll I'll show mine real quick.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 2: Do you show me yours and then I'll show you mine.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 10: Okay, Yeah, all right, calm down, chat.
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, calm down TV. A hey, Dad, So this
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: is the US Marine Corps I D found on August ninth,
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: arrest by New Orleans p D. And it says five
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: to nine, yeah, one hundred and forty pounds, slender, light
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: brown hair, and I think yours has said dark hair,
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: blue hazel eyes. And I guess the hair is different
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: and it sticks out to me. And I'm not sure
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: if his hair had changed from possibly when this Marine
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: corps idea was taken. It says fifty six to fifty nine.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know when I was taken still, but it
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: seems like different descriptions from the same arrest in New
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: Orleans had different heights as well and color of hair
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: and and weight. So you can't even get that right.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, they can't even get that consistent.
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: So old slacker. They don't call me big Bay of
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: Bob nothing.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: Hey slacker, why are you Anyboddy?
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: Uh?
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: I know, I'm I didn't see it?
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: What was it? And of course this day when I
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: missed it, I'm sorry November twenty second, right after the
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: shooting that witnesses see JD. Tippett at the Gloco station
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 2: on the other side of the Houston Street Vibe though,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: which is over here somewhere near this store, or at
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 2: least on the way to it. So oh, I mean,
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: it's just it's all sketchy.
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: It's yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: Now, let's talk a little bit about a doppel ganger, okay,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: or a personator, if you will. It's been a long
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: time since we talked about Larry Crayford on this show.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: But let's bring up some very interesting things that Larry
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: Crayford and Lee Harvey Oswald have in common, folks. And
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: this was from the Continuing Inquiry newsletter Many many moons
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: ago by Brian Burton. I don't have an exact date,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: but he says, as far as I know, it was
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 2: Joakim Yoston who first alleged that Jack Ribby's Fact Totem
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 2: Larry Crayford was the second Oswald and his book Oswald
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: the Truth in nineteen sixty seven, and that's true. I've
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: read that book and it may or may not be
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: in the TSBD of ro locals. If the photos reproduced
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: in the hearings are authentic. Crayford was hardly Oswald's double. Nonetheless,
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: he was sufficiently similar to Oswald and build and coloration
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: for Ruth Payne, mainly on the basis of a color
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: photo reproduced as CE four five three to testify that quote.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: Crayford's photograph bears a strong resemblance to Oswalt, and for
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: honest and uncommitted witnesses such as Robert Patterson retrospectively to
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: identify Crayford as Oswald. Coincidentally, both men had small scars
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: on their upper lips, and Oswald's autopsic report we read
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: midline upper lip terminating at the vermilion margin is a
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: quarter of an inch pale scar. In an FBI profile
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 2: of Crayford, we read scars half inch scar center of
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: upper lip. Interesting quite apart, however, from these physical similarities
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: is a strange series of coincidences which strongly suggests conspiratorial interaction.
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: Let's get into some conspiracy theories. According to the FBI
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: profile cited above, Craford joined the army in September fifty
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: eight received a general discharge barely a year later, on
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 2: November tenth, nineteen fifty nine. In early November fifty nine,
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: Oswald was in Moscow and had begun to announce two
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 2: relations and journalists that the Russian authorities had finally agreed
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: to allow him to stay in the Surviet Union. So
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: Craford got his discharge on November tenth, fifty nine. Oswald
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: got his discharge on nine to eleven, fifty nine, one
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: month previous to craf During April through June sixty one,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: Crayford allegedly an itinerant laborer and carnival worker. Carnival worker
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: whose usual stomping grounds were Michigan and Oregon. What's Up?
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 2: Colleen came to Dallas to work for the Tier Plating Company.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: This was a crucial period for Oswald, as he'd already
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 2: announced his intention to leave the Soviet Union. In April,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: he met and subsequently married Marina Prusakova, and throughout May
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: and June he was making urgent efforts to secure permission
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: to return to the USA with his old lady or wife,
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: Sir Number three. On June thirteenth, nineteen sixty two, Oswald
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: and his family returned to the USA, and on the
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: fourteenth he was welcomed by his brother Robert at love Field.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: Exactly two days later, Crayford consolidated his Dallas connection by
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: marrying his girlfriend, Wilma Hainey Heini Wilma Heiney. Crayford's marriage
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: of convenience question mark did not prosper, and, according to
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: the relevant FBI report of CE five two two six,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: it finally broke up in June of sixty three. Quote
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: as his life was a lesbian she would just eat
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: him and stuff Joe. Yeah, yeah, I didn't know he
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: was married. Yeah to a lesbian. Lucky Lucky Man reminds
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: you of certain rumors about Thee's problems with Marina question
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: mark M five. Nonetheless, Larry first went to Dallas in
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: March of sixty three to attempt at reconciliation with Wilma.
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 2: In March of sixty three marked a new phase and
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 2: the fortunes of Oswald and his family. They met and
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: became intimate with Ruth and Michael Payne. More significantly, perhaps
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: it was on March twelfth that the Karkani rifle was
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: ordered under the name of aj Idel. So far, if
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: we were to accept the accounts of the Warren Report
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: in the FBI, Crayford visited Dallas twice and had significant
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: dealings marriage with a Dallas resident once. Each of these
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: occasions coincided with a crucial phase in Oswald's fortunes. Number six.
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: Crayford next turned up in Dallas on fifteen October sixty three.
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: According to C five two two six, he was employed
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: as a roustabout in connection with the Texas State Fair,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: and according to the Warren Report, he took up immediate
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: employment with Jack Ruby. Either way, he arrived in Dallas
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: exactly one day before Oswald began working at the school
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: Book Depository, which is interesting. Seven shortly after the assassination,
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: Crayford decided to leave Dallas. You think whether he left
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: on Saturday the twenty third, as alleged, or on Sunday
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: the twenty fourth, after Ruby had show out Oswald is
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 2: by no means certain. But what I've looked into is
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: he left Saturday morning, and that's what That's when he left.
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: But we are left with the series of very strange coincidences.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: Which what part, if any Crayford played in the assassination
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: of JFK remains uncertain. Some clue, perhaps is provided by
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: a remark by Penn Jones and forgive my guilt for
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: excuse me. Concerning Crayford's testimony before the Warren Commission, Crayford's
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 2: testimony is that of a trained agent. If the question
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: was important, Crayford could remember nothing. If it was a
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: trivial question, Crayford remembered every mining detail. And this is
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: true if you go back and look at the Warren
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: Commission testimony. I believe the longest was pain and the
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: second longest was really Larry Crafor like four hundred pages.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: It's insane, more than de Marshall. Yeah, it seems extremely
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: likely that Crayford was a quote trained agent. As to
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: his precise mission, the National Archives may perhaps one day
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 2: provide a clue. Ps. On December seventh, nineteen sixty three,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 2: Billy Lee Beard was summoned to the Dallas FBI office
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: in connection with his claim that he had seen Oswald
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: and a turkey shoot in Irving. After scrutinizing three photos
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: of Oswald, Beard left the office in the company of
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: asient Arthur Carter, who takes up the story as follows.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: When leaving the office, a young man was observed in
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 2: the reception room of the Dallas office, whom mister Beard remarked, boy,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: he sure looks like Oswald. Whoever the young man was,
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: he could not have been Oswald, who was dead, nor
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: could have been Crafer, who was already on his way
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: to Michigan, which is interesting. So, you know, I think
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: at the very least Oswald or Crayford is responsible for
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 2: a lot of these Oswald Ruby sightings together prior to
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 2: the assassination. And you have all these other interesting things,
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: like you know, there was an Oswald that test you
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 2: of a car to Lincoln Mercury. There was an Oswald
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: and a frasier seeing at a gun range, you know,
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 2: just enacting weird and all these things to make him
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: memorable to people. At some point, Yeah, I would.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: I would say Crayford is more likely to be buying
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: that beer and candy than than Oswald, of course, but
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: that just screams like a Craford thing to me.
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Oh yeah or shizzy. All right, Joe,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: Well let's let's see if anybody's gonna need comments or
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 2: questions real quick.
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: We got a fu sir. First of all, I want
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 1: to get back to tiny answer and you can help
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: me with the rob Our question was, can you say
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: who filmed the John Martin footage and why do you
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: think it was a seventeen year old RTC student who
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: filmed it himself on a trip to Dallas and New Orleans.
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: Well we've gone over this a lot, and I'm not
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: saying I know exactly who filmed it. I'm just saying
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 1: the theory that we put out there with this RTC
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: student going down to visit General Walker and then possibly
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: getting asking how can I help, and then getting steer
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: to New Orleans and somehow catching the fracas on tape, and.
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 2: You got to remember you have we have Gary Schoener
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 2: and Wiseburg meeting this kid, okay when in Minnesota at
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 2: the University of Minnesota and getting the film directly from him.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: So, as I mentioned Rob, the FBI document of him
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: giving it to them on December sixty three, getting it
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: back January sixty four.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I don't really think this is a question
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 2: of did he film it. I think there's a question
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 2: of why he filmed it the way he did, which
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: is suspect and also begs the question of he thought
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: that when he got his film back, it was edited
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: just like the Doyles did, and the question is what
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: was taken out that we don't know of. But yeah,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: it's all yeah, it's all crazy.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's our best guests, and we touched on it earlier.
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: We think the part that might have identified Oswalt's possible
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: helper on August ninth with the other pro you know,
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: pro cash Rome demonstrator could be a reason. But uh,
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: mister Mike is giving you some shit. Triple B. He says,
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: you got to bust your balls again. The street called
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 1: Riverfront Boulevard is called Riverfront, not waterfront, but back in
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, it would have been called Industry of Boulevard.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: All right, man on the ground, m thank you, Mike,
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: thank you, Mike. Oh, he's happy to have you bust
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: my balls.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: M h.
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 2: And apparently I said Achered Rome last week as a
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: street in Dallas. It's acre. It's pronounced acred or achored.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 2: He says it's a pronounced acor not called it acred,
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: but we call that close enough.
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, and tiny, it was given to the FBI,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: like we just said, in the end of sixty three,
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: it was given to Schoner and Wiseberg and not Severston
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: in sixty eight it was and also Garrison, right rob.
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 11: Then the HCA, Well, Wiseburg took it to Garrison. But okay,
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 11: apparently John T. Martin had already sent a copy to
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 11: Garrison prior to meeting Wiseburg and Schooner when he heard
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 11: about Garrison's investigation. Yeah, I had never done anything with
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 11: it until Wilsberg got down there.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 1: And I know where're going with this tiny with the
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: red cell thing, and I'm very open to it. I'm
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: just saying, like there's a there's a pretty comprehensive.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: Writ whatever chain of custody.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, since a change, thank you of I think we
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: established as in his film, to other people, or or
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 1: Wiseberg giving it to Garrison. Do I know if he
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: took it all himself? No, I mean I have a
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 1: certain amount of meat that says it's been spliced together.
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 2: I mean, I mean his dad could have taken it,
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 2: who knows, or his little sister who knows. But he
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: says he took it, he had custody of it. He
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: gave it to Garrison, he gave it to Schoener and Weisberg,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 2: he gave it to the sea, he gave it to
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: the sixth floor. Blah blah blah. So moving forward a
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: little bit here, Ye, interesting things I came across from
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: volume one of the Continuing Inquiry, number two, June twenty second,
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 2: nineteen and seventy seven, an article written called Oswald Doubled
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: or Nothing by Suam. Why no, my name is given above?
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 2: If you haven't already guessed, is anonymous spelled backwards? Joe,
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: I'll see your dazed and confused look. Yes, yes, no,
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: I was reading the chat.
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: Yes, if you keep reading, perhaps you understand and why
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 2: I do not care to reveal my true name. Hopefully
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: my relating an incident from my experience may shed some
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: measure of understanding upon the agent double agent hypothesis of
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 2: Oswald's involvement in the assassination of JFK. Lee Harvey. Oswald
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: and I were the same age, we both joined the
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: Marine Corps in fifty six, and we're both granted security
• 1:31:40
  Speaker 2: secret security clearances in nineteen fifty seven. Oswald was trained
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 2: in radar and electronics, while I was taught advanced marksmanship, demolitions, escape, evasion,
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: and survival. And while Oswald was supposedly carrying out his
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: defection in the Soviet Union, I was intensively studying the
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: Russian language at the Army Language School in Monterey, California,
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: where I recall seeing a Corporal Osborne question mark who
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 2: bore a strong resemblance to Oswald, as best as I
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: can remember. I was then transferred to Western Europe, where
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: I was quickly absorbed into the vast military intelligence community,
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: having first been granted a top secret cryptographic clearance. If
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: there was any higher security clearance anywhere in use I
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: am happily unaware of. For the greater part of two years,
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 2: I was engaged in pride in spite of the fact
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 2: that it resulted in one of the most bizarre experiences
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: of my life. It happened in a little town along
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: the five kilometer wide zone dividing East and West Germany
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 2: during the time the Berlin Wall was being erected. I
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: had been working in that area for about six months
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: when I was suddenly, in the middle of the night
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 2: whisked away in the back of an army truck to
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 2: a town many miles to the west of the border.
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 2: I was immediately confined to quarters in the basement of
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: a large building where one unit of the Army's counter
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: Intelligence Corps was headquartered. My roommate was changed every four hours,
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 2: and each of them were armed with forty five caliber
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: automatic pistols. I received visitors at some of the oddest hours,
• 1:33:18
  Speaker 2: and no sooner than I would drift off to sleep
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: when a captain, a major, or a colonel would drop
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: in to ask me the same monotonous questions. Was it
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: true that I had frequented a certain gast house near
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: the army installation in that little town. Yes? Did the
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 2: proprietor of the gast house introduce me to a sixteen
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: year old German boy named Helmet? Yes? Did I converse
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: with him often. Yes, did I give him the weather
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 2: station cover story to explain my activity in that area? Yes?
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 2: Did he believe it? No way, Joe, no way. Helmet,
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 2: the inquisitive high school boy who idolized American Marines was
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 2: a Soviet spy and actually a twenty three year old
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: veteran of at least three years of spy activity, suspected
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 2: of being a hermaphrodite or possibly a eunuch to account
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: for this extremely youthful appearance.
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: Joke, Wait, you gives you a youthful appearance?
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: Apparently he tried and let me known.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: I'll leave that to you.
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: That was surprise number one. Next up came at the
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: end of three weeks of isolation, when I was informed
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 2: by Colonel Quote Smith that I have been totally vindicated. Whatever.
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 2: He then proceeded to give me the most incredible briefing
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 2: I've ever received. He began by I bet. He began
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: by handing me a folder containing four eight by ten
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 2: glosses of Mark Lane's penis. It was like looking in
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 2: the mirror. They were pictures of me, except for the
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 2: clothes in the background of two of the pictures. I
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 2: recognized them as photos of myself. But I had heard
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 2: of composite pictures before. Surely that would explain it. No,
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: the Colonel said, they are not composites, and furthermore, they
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 2: are not pictures of you. I sat stunned for several minutes,
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: trying to absorb the impact of the colonel's words. I
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 2: was staring at my double. In the next forty minutes,
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: the colonel introduced me to my Russian twin. He speaks
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: better English than I do, and knows ten times as
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 2: much about America as I do. He has attended Syracuse University.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: He bears the same scars and tattoos that I have,
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: and it is reasonably suspected he knows all of my
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: relatives and friends by name, if not by sight. Needless
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: to say, this man had been trained in Groom to
• 1:36:06
  Speaker 2: subvert my intelligence gathering activities, and quite possibly have been
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 2: prepared to ultimately assume my identity. Obviously, such an eventuality
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: would necessitate my temporary or permanent removal from the area
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 2: of operation. Due to this chilling fact, the Colonel announced
• 1:36:26
  Speaker 2: that my field work was at an end. I was
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: quietly transferred to a distant locale, where I was assigned
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: a desk job and a huge, heavily guarded security complex.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: I do not know the fate of my double, but
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 2: I strongly suspect that he has long since been snatched
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: off the face of the earth, his status compromised. He
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: may be working for us now, if he was working
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: at all. So merely telling of this experience does not
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 2: fully convey all of the mind boggled imiplications. Since my
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 2: retirement several years ago, I've had ample time to consider
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 2: a few other very potent possibilities. What if my double
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 2: were not a Soviet agent at all, but actually one
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: of ours. I only assumed he was the enemy. The
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: colonel never said so my double might have easily picked
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: up where I left off in that friendly little town,
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: baiting young helmet into all kinds of interesting situations. Two
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: or more can play at that double game, which brings
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 2: us back to Lee Harvey Oswald, who was admittedly just
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: a patsy. Another word for patsy, which essentially describes the
• 1:37:37
  Speaker 2: function of a double, is decoy. Even the name Alec
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 2: James Haidel may be translated into a Russian phrase Alec
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: James of the sly and cunning affairs. The name Heidel
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: appears to have been formed by taking the first syllables
• 1:37:55
  Speaker 2: of two Russian words that I'm not going to even
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: try to pronounce here, uh and combining them to make
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 2: kill k h I, d y e L, which translates
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: into English idel. This is a common method of forming
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 2: names in Russian. The youth organization Comes Small, of which
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 2: Marina Oswald had been a member of, was formed by
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: combining the first syllables of three words which I'm not
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: going to try to pronounce here is either.
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 2: It starts with come come some all, come, come, God
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 2: come dot com. One would almost have to be in
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 2: the spy business to fully appreciate this genius, one of
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: the prerequisites for successful espionage. But yeah, it goes on
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 2: and on and on, And if you really want to
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: read all about this, go find the continuing Inquiry from
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 2: June of seventy seven. So what do you think about that, Joe,
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 2: that we have a testimony from somebody who knew Oswald
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 2: okay in the service and then suddenly gets to meet
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: his own doppelganger double when he's stationed in Germany and
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 2: have his mind blown.
• 1:39:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, it gives Korea to the Harvey and Lee theory,
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: and it's very interesting. I don't doubt those type of
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 1: things were.
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: Going on at all, I know. So let's talk a
• 1:39:47
  Speaker 2: little bit about Priscilla Johnson's analysis of Oswalt's height. So
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: this is a conversation held in Garrets office. It's the transcript.
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: I believe Bill Boxley is there. Whoever is F. Somebody
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: named s g is of course Garrison. But they go
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 2: back and forth. They're all in a conversation about this,
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 2: and they're talking about Priscilla Johnson, and Garrison says it's
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: a possibility, I think, you have to say, but a
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 2: real possibility. There's a real question about the photographs of
• 1:40:32
  Speaker 2: Oswald in Russia, and he is definitely small. There's no
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: getting away from that. Boxley says, yeah, shorter and stock
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: here F says Priscilla Johnson, God damn it, Garrison, did
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 2: she say he was small? Priscilla Johnson, despite the fact
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 2: that I'm a very good friend of her brothers, will
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: not even give me the courtesy of spending an evening
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: and chatting. That's because she knew it wasn't the real
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: Oswald over there she saw him. Garrison says, well, that's
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 2: a good point. Also, she's Marina's memoirs, and by god,
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: Marina must have told her something. Garrison says, there's a
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 2: case that Bill says, no action means something. If I'll
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: tell you something, I can crack Priscilla Johnson. Garrison said,
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: what did you have in mind? He said, I have
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 2: in mind facing her with the fact that if she
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 2: does not talk with me and tell me about this,
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: that she's going to be pretty near the top of
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: the list of being exposed as a bomb. It may
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: be a great approach. Garrison says, she probably is a
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: CIA agent, because up is all over that place United Press.
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 2: So Garrison called it. Yeah, the bitch was CIA, and
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: it's come out since and since then that she was
• 1:41:41
  Speaker 2: working for the CIA. So boom, there you go, right,
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 2: And she says, but she reactioned maybe some of value.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 2: As soon as you get a chance, look at our
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 2: volumes tomorrow and Monday, and look at the pictures of
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: Alec if you will, with Marina and Russia on the bridge.
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 2: If this man is an inch over five six, I'll stand,
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: I'll stand on my head. She's about five to two
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 2: and he is small. That's Garrison talking. So very interesting
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 2: stuff there, h.
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: Very interesting in deedser.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well let's take a little break and hop in
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 2: the chat Joe, if you will for me, why be
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 2: right back.
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, I saw your comments, tiny dancer. I will
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: take a look at that one of them not live
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 1: and get back to you on that. For sure. Have
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: you seen, Sally? Have you seen it's called three identical Strangers?
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: They did split twins riplets to do social experiments. I
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: don't buy the Armstrong theory, but it's not completely ludicrous either.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: I have not seen three identical strangers, but knowing how
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: nefarious are intelligence communities are, I do not doubt in
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: the slightest that they would have some type of operations
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: like this, especially among and I hate to say this,
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: like lower maybe like poorer type of people that have
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: twins or triplets where it might be easier to say,
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: split them and do these type of experiments. For sure,
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: I don't doubt it in the least at all. And
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 1: so you know, when it comes to Oswalt's height, Robert
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: Webster was allegedly the description that came out on the
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: radio was at the DPD initially matched Robert Webster's traits
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: as five ten one sixty five Brown wavy hair, blue eyes.
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: Well though that is very similar to os Waltz as well,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: and also in the tip of shooting, a description a
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: white male five ten one sixty one seventy pounds, brown,
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 1: bushy hair was broadcast as well. So yeah, there's a
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: lot of It's strange that Howard Brennan used the description
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: of what seems to be Robert Webster as well.
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 2: So there you go. You're back and back, thank you.
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 2: I had to see man about a horse really quickly.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: That's all good.
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 2: So continue on this Garrison conversation if you will here
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: now now they're talking about a little something else by Marina.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: Garrison says, remember she's swinging from the beginning, as soon
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 2: as she hits the States, and by swinging, it means
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: what it still does back in nineteen sixty three, and
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: this is Garrison saying it. He says, she's with Carrie
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 2: Thornley before Oswald is even dead. It's not just afterwards.
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: She's going to the store with Thornley more than oswaldt
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: Boxley says they had her under thumb ever since the
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: assassination with Joe Grisafi, who was Joe Poole's campaign manager
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 2: in Dallas. He puts some money for Porter to get
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 2: a liquor store. He put up the money for her
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: to buy a home. He's written hard on her.
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop you there what they say, who put
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: up money for Marina to get a home.
• 1:46:15
  Speaker 2: Regardless, We've gone through Joe Chrisafie.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've gone through this with James Rover Martin. They
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: were getting tens of thousands aka hundreds of thousands of
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: dollars of mail in donations, cash, they were signing book
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: deals internationally, news exclusives, and they were selling it before.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: So I don't I'm not sure if I believe that.
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: I wanted to just hear it.
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 2: Well, let me continue. Porter is her new husband. No,
• 1:46:55
  Speaker 2: but who's this other man? Boxley, says Chrisafie. He's a
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 2: two bit well not two bit, six bit politician hood
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: in Dallas. How do you spell his name? G r
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: I Zaffi. He owns the liquor stores where Marina's husband works.
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 2: He owns it and her husband is supposed to own it.
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 2: Do you know where in Canada? Porter flies? Yeah, he's
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 2: flying to Calgary. He wouldn't make an overnight flight. Alberta
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: has come up before somebody says it's warm in Tulsa.
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: That's the Norton story. The password is warm in Tulsa
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 2: Oil employed by American Oil Company in Calgary, and they're
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 2: just sitting around bullshiting. But then they say, I think
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 2: that Priscilla mcmellan Johnson may be our key to this thing.
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 2: Boxley says, that's right. She could blow the whole duke.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 2: But I think we can also blow her. It's the
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 2: world's biggest prostitute. For sitting on what she's got, Boxley says,
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 2: she wouldn't have any conscience, I know, but she can
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 2: also just be absolutely ruined for the rest of her life.
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, nobody would ever believe one damn word she
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: ever said. From now on. She could be pictured as
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 2: a real bum. She worked for Jack Kennedy, she interviewed
• 1:48:16
  Speaker 2: Lee Harvey or Lee Harvey when he was there, and
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 2: she's writing Marina's memoirs. Now, if Jack Kennedy was murdered
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: by a whole bunch of people and she's the one
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: who's sitting on the truth, then she could be ruined.
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: You have a point. They've there's got to be an
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 2: approach to one of them.
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: This sounds good, and I believe she sat on publishing
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: the Me and Lee book for a few years. I'm
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: not one hundred percent on it.
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 2: But I don't think she It didn't come out until
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 2: like seventy seven or seventy.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: Eight, right, And when she was writing it was when
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: Porter met Marina, because we went over those on a
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: previous episode when we dealt with Porter. It was kind
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: of like after Marina came back from the University of
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: Michigan thing and Brisilla Johnson was loving with her, and
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: then Porter met her, and that was like mid to
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 1: late sixties. So, yeah, you're saying seventies it did not
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 1: come out, which makes you think was it to kind
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 1: of counteract the HCA narrative, right, that was coming out.
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 1: I believe it was shortly before then. Don't quote me
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: on it, but interesting to ponder. None in the least yep.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 2: So they're still sitting around talking and now they're talking
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: about Marina again, and Marina says that her American friends
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: got sent her Lucky Strike cigarettes when she was in Russia.
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: Boxley says, well, who were her American friends? And previously
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: this she couldn't speak English at all, allegedly, and then
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 2: just out of the blue. She can put sentences together
• 1:50:02
  Speaker 2: and be coherent. Boxy says, that's the biggest giveaway. She
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 2: couldn't speak three words of English in a row. Visiting
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: the marette down here in the summer sixty three, all
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: she said was me like me, no like, and that
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 2: was the extent of her vocabulary. But out here at
• 1:50:22
  Speaker 2: the lake in the late summer, she explained with perfect grammar,
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 2: that I used I used to smoke in Russia, but
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 2: Lee doesn't like them for me to smoke here. As
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 2: a matter of fact, some of my American friends in
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 2: Russia used to get me Lucky Strike cigarettes. So interesting. Interesting, Yeah,
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 2: let's see, there's still sitting around chatting. I'm just gonna
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 2: skimming for things. Well, here we go, here we got.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 2: I came across this from a French article summarized by
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 2: Thomas McLaughlin in nineteen sixty six. Copies destroyed nineteen seventy three.
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: I guess the FBI, but anyway, it is a summary
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 2: from a French article done by for the FBI, and
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 2: what the French article says is interesting. It is a
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 2: document entitled Paul or presents the Assassination of President Kennedy
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: or the Untouchables against the Fourth Right, or FBI agents
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 2: against the United States Fascist organizations, or the plot against
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: the White House. I love it when these articles have
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: five titles. It's okay, just pick one, asshold okay. In
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: this document, the author describes the quote real story of
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: the assassination of President Kennedy in the following manner. On
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 2: October twelfth, nineteen sixty one, a man named Alec Jhidell
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 2: was released from the Marines with the assistance of a
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 2: former chief of the CIA. He pretended to be Lee
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald. He was hired to do this by a
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 2: well directed organization. The best United States marshals were then
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 2: assigned to the case. They took fingerprints, reconstructed the crime
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 2: scene according to the details of the Dallas police. They
• 1:52:22
  Speaker 2: saw that the accusation against Oswald was false. The marshals
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 2: looked at photographs of the crowds about the motorcade to
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 2: try to find out who the true killer was. They
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 2: were surprised to see Oswald in the crowd viewing the
• 1:52:35
  Speaker 2: presidential motorcadey The Dallas police told them that this was
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 2: the only person who looked like Oswald. This was a
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 2: good clue on the night of November twenty second, twenty third,
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: the FBI arrested Hodel, took his fingerprints, recognized cigarettes left
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: at the scene of the crime, etc. The FBI kept high,
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 2: tortured him, disfigured him in the same places as Oswald,
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 2: so no one could tell the difference. Hidel was then
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 2: taken by the Dallas police before the press. Hidell, thinking
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: that the organization in Quotes was going to free him,
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: he walked confidently toward the photographers and was shot in
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: the gut by Jack Ruby. Hidel was wounded gravely and
• 1:53:23
  Speaker 2: taken to the same hospital as President Kennedy was. Hidel died,
• 1:53:27
  Speaker 2: but everything had been arranged by the FBI. But Hydel dead,
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: Oswald could take his place, and the FBI left the
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 2: investigation of Hydel's death to the Dallas police. Oswald is
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: a very intelligent man, and he saw what the FBI
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 2: was up to. He agreed to take Hydel's place, and
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: he memorized his instructions quote. Oswald's appearance was then slightly
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 2: modified by plastic surgery so that he could take Hydel's place.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: Oswald went to quote the organization and listed his reasons
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: why he had not been around. Later, the organization thought
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: Oswald was Hadel. Oswald then secretly visited an FBI agent
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: and furnished him with information. Oswald's mother and wife also cooperated.
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: Quote.
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 2: The FBI saw that its planned to throw the investigation
• 1:54:18
  Speaker 2: off the track was working. The FBI had the case
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: assigned to the Warrant Committee. The FBI demanded the Senate
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: invoke an old law permitting false witnesses to be accused
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 2: for false depositions. The demand was accepted by the Senate,
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 2: and in order to complete and control the scheme completely,
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 2: the FBI made use of all methods to win the
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: task of protecting Johnson. The CIA, in order to avoid suspicion,
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 2: accepted the plan. The FBI now has access to all
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 2: secret papers and the Marshal's control everything. The FBI has
• 1:54:51
  Speaker 2: been given the cooperation of the American and world press.
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 2: The organization is now completely deceived thinks its plans have
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 2: been successful. The author concludes his report quote by stating
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: that Oswald is now the perfect spy for the FBI,
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 2: with everyone thinking he's dead, and the organization is completely
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: unaware that Hagdell was really Oswald. Including along with the
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 2: document are several letters from French publishing houses informing the
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 2: author that they are not in a position to publish
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 2: his work, and a letter from the office of General
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: de Gaulle thanking the author for his report and stating
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: that quote General de Gaulle is unable to assist you
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 2: in having your report published because he makes it a
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 2: rule never to intervene in such matters. Au revoir, Sir,
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: you are dismissed. What in the sam hell was that? Joe?
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what to think about that, sir.
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: That that was a horrible, horrible example of Oswald double
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: but that that's that's kind of shit that the French
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 2: people are rending their papers. I mean, is that how
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 2: they interpreted the crime?
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: That's crazy?
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But if they did, they have some
• 1:56:13
  Speaker 1: problems for sure.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, doubt all right, Joe, I think we better
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 2: wrap it up. We're coming up on two errors here.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it, sir. I just want to thank
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: everyone that gave us super chats, John Paula Trey, Bloody Benders, Lee,
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 1: Jack Taylor, Colleen our Rocket, Queen Sally Scott. Thank you
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: so much. Means the world. I'm going to go to
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 1: second set fish and buy a beer and maybe something
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: else with all your super chats. I hope you have
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: a great weekend. I couldn't be happier responding birthday with
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: all of you guys in the Triple B. And on
• 1:57:05
  Speaker 1: that note, I'll stop be apping like six Barbers. I'll
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: let you close it out.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: All right. So once again, folks, that is it for
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: us for episode three or two, The Many Heights of
• 1:57:16
  Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald. We hope was an informative and interesting show. Again,
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 2: tune in next week where we don't know what the
• 1:57:25
  Speaker 2: topic is going to be yet, but it will be cool.
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 2: It will be informative and entertaining. And I think I've
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 2: already got some of a sleep from Joe. So thanks
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 2: for hanging out with us this week. We look forward
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: to doing it. We have a blast, and thanks again
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: for all those participating in the chat, all those sending
• 1:57:43
  Speaker 2: super chats. Man, it hits us right in the fields,
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 2: right in the fields. So that's it for Joey Scars.
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 2: He have's like a two Barbers Morelli and his palatial
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 2: Catskills estate. And it's your boy Rob Clark from his
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: palatial basement in Virginia until next time, folks.
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 2: Peace, we are grooving and we.
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 1: Are out proceed with the party.
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 2: That's right, Party on Wayne, I'm supposed to say, party
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 2: on guard. Everybody, have a good night, the great weekend.
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 2: We love you.
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 12: Thank you again everyone.
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: Yah hi, welcome
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 12: To say