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#1954 The Cost Of Healthcare - James Gillespie · The You Project

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: I'll get our team. Welcome to another installment of the show.
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cooker's over there in HQ typ HQ all
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: the letters. You're looking very rugged up.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Are you cold over there? Actually I'm a bit warm.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: I've got the heater on too.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: I've got two jackets, one's very wooly, and the heater
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: is on next to me.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I'm a bit warm.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Well, a lot of people as they get older, you know,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: and hit the menopause, as you've been talking about a lot.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, oh, sorry, the Perry menopause, the change of life,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: you know. And don't send me an email. She's been
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: talking about it. Adnaws him. It's probably you'll probably get
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: chill blades. I don't know what they are, but my
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: mum used to talk about those. Have you got cold
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: fingers and toes?
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: I've always had cold fingers and toes.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Maybe I was born in the menopause.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Maybe hey, I think James is blushing. He doesn't like
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: to talk about such such issues and topics.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Well, you just stay rugged up. Have you got ug
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: boots on?
• 1:01
  Speaker 5: No?
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: I don't have got runners on. That's of course you
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: have just in case you've got to get away quick.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Always ready.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Always take the corner table and the corner chair, so
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: you've got your back to nothing. I tell you who
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: needs to take the corner table because he's been ruffling
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: governmental feathers.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: What the feather ruffler.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: I'm a bit nervous to even do this podcast because
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: the briefing that I got before Tive.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: I don't want to put you or me in harm's way.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to have to sleep with one
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: eye open from the day this goes to air.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: But nonetheless, because we're all about the facts here we are,
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I might cut me out of the edit.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: And you're the only one.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: You're the only one who can actually fight. You need
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: to just when I go to war. You're just walking
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: two meters.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: In front of me. Don't worry about that. James Gillespie,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show, my friend. How are you good? Good?
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: Thanks for having me Bauck Crog. You like it?
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: How I've thrown you under the bus before we even start.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: I'm used to it by now, Craig.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: How is it under there? How is it under that?
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: So basically building a house I had to hear at
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: this point.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to life under the Bus.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: I'm James Gillestie with my new podcast Life Under the
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Bus courtesy of Harps. All Right, so it's been there's
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: been a few interesting goings on over the last month
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: or two on Planet You. We wanted to have a
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: chat about a few things.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: So why don't you.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Try to distill in Craig and Tiff friendly language so
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: we can understand it.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: What's been going on?
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: Well, the big thing in the healthcare space.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: Over the last pretty much since February has been bulk billing.
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: Everyone's been talking about bulk billing and the reason behind
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: that is on the twenty third of February, just before
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: the election was called, the Health Minister came out and said, look,
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: if we win this election, we're going to put seven
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: point nine billion dollars out of an eight point five
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: billion dollar budget towards expanding the bulk billing incentive to
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: improve bulk billing for every single Australian and the media
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: release that came out alongside that said that it would
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: result in forty eight hundred fully bulk billing clinics across
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: the country, which is huge because at the moment it's
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: sitting just above thirteen hundred fully bold billion clinics across
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: the country. So forty eight hundred is a big improvement.
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: And this was all to come into effect from one
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: November this year if the government won the election.
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: And you know, I hate to preempt to.
• 3:42
  Speaker 4: Anyone who hasn't seen the results, but the government did
• 3:45
  Speaker 4: win the election. So where we're looking from one November
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: this year at seeing that coming into play.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: What are the what are the odds?
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know you don't have a crystal ball,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: but do you think that that forty eight that predicted
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: forty eight hundred clinics being fully bulk build or having
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: that option for people is going to be a reality?
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: Like, in other words, will that promise be met?
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: So we don't have a crystal wall, Craig, but clean Bill,
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: the company that I run, has the closest thing to
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: a crystal wall when it comes to this of anyone
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: in Australia. The ball building incentive change that they announced
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: is extraordinarily complex. It changes the billing arrangements of every
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: single GP clinic up and down the country and it's
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: probably the most complex change that's been instituted for GP
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: billing practices in the history of medicare but we have
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: a lot of data on GP clinics and so able
• 4:43
  Speaker 4: to conduct an analysis to see how many clinics are
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: likely to take it up. And so the report that
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: we released on Sunday just go on goes through all
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: of our data on a clinic by clinic basis and
• 4:57
  Speaker 4: looks at the number of clinics we'd expect it to
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: make economic sense to take up this change, and in
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: a straight comparison, so just a comparison of current clinic
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: out of pocket costs to how much the clinic will
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: receive if they become fully bulk billing, we found that
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: seven hundred and forty clinics across the country would take
• 5:15
  Speaker 4: up the change. It would make economic sense for those
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: clinics to take up the change, bringing the total number
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: to two thousand and eighty one. Now that's just less
• 5:23
  Speaker 4: than half the forty eight hundred clinics we were talking
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: about earlier. But we also did a bit of a
• 5:29
  Speaker 4: staged comparison out as well, because there are a lot
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: of clinics that are like right on that edge of
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: maybe they're out of pocket costs are just a little
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: bit higher than what the bolt building incentive would be.
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: They might switch down as a result of that, there
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: are also state based systems that need to be taken
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: into account. So we also did a comparison of Okay,
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: if the economic effects of this change, alongside all the
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: state changes and everything like that, are ten percent, twenty percent,
• 5:53
  Speaker 4: and thirty percent higher, how many fully bolt billing clinics
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: are we going to see? And we found that the
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: economic effects probably need to be between twenty and thirty
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: percent higher than just the total payment amount that a
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: clinic will receive in order for us to actually hit
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: forty eight hundred fully bulk billiing clinics as a result
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: of this change.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: So when they say that by November one, forty eight
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: hundred clinics nationally would become fully bulk billing, how do
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: they ensure that?
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, do I mean.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Especially privately owned businesses. Is there a compulsion for businesses
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: to comply? Is it optional? I mean, these are the
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: probably the dumbest questions, But I literally know nothing. I
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: literally know nothing about this, So me trying to pretend
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I'm somewhat educated in this space, it would be silly.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: But how do they ensure that number?
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: So this is one of the reasons we wanted to
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: release this report because I think a lot of people
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: out in the general public that they look at this
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: number forty eight hundred and they think, you know what,
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: that's a really high number. I'm going to be bolk
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: built from one November, and we don't want people to
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: be walking into GP clinics and getting bill shocked. That's
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: the worst thing that can happen because if they get
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: bill shocked, they won't go in again when they need to.
• 7:15
  Speaker 4: And so it's a very very complex change, and it's
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: important to explain out the elements of it so people
• 7:21
  Speaker 4: can understand. The government can't compel GP clinics to change
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: their billing. You can't, really, they can't say you have
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: to charge this amount. What they've done with this is
• 7:33
  Speaker 4: they've taken the Medicare rebate that a GP clinic receives
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: for seeing a patient no matter what, and add it
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: on to additional payments. The first additional payment is called
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: the bold billing Incentive, and it's paid to a clinic
• 7:47
  Speaker 4: if they bolk build the patient. So a clinic can
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: either collect the Medicare rebate and charging out of pocket cost,
• 7:53
  Speaker 4: or they can collect the Medicare rebate and bulk build
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: the patient and get a little bit extra from the
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: government for doing so. But they cannot do both right,
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: And then the second payment that comes in is a
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: twelve point five percent additional payment on top of that one,
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: where if a clinic is fully ball billing so bok
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: bill's one hundred percent of the services it offers, it
• 8:13
  Speaker 4: gets an additional twelve point five percent for all of
• 8:16
  Speaker 4: those services. And so that's that's the change.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: I would imagine that.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think you said that seven hundred and
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: forty businesses, it would make commercial sense for them to transition, right,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: what's the number here, twenty one hundred you or take,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: So that kind of leads somewhere in the two and
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: a half thousand clinic space, or that leaves a considerable
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: gap from what they said would be happening to what
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: you think would be commercially viable. What why would a
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: Why would a like if I owned a medical clinic
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: and I had a bunch of medical professionals working for me,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: and my business was a regular profit and lost business.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: I need to make mon now, I need to pay
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: people and pay bills and make a profit because I'm
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: in business as well as I'm in healthcare and I
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: wouldn't look after people, But why would I choose to
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: do something which was financially disadvantageous.
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: So that's what really threw us off about that forty
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: eight hundred number, because even just looking at the high
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: level average statistics, we found it difficult to get there.
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: So if so, the bulk billing incentive payment, that first
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: additional payment that a clinic receives, that scales based on
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: where the clinic is located. It's lower in metro areas
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: across the country, some in the cities, and higher in
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: regional areas to try to encourage greater bulk billing rates
• 9:41
  Speaker 4: amongst regional gps in metro areas across the country where
• 9:46
  Speaker 4: seventy two percent of the GP clinics are located, because
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: that's where the vast majority of Australia's population is located.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: The amount that a clinic receives accepting all full payments
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: from the government for bulk billing every single patient is
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: just over sixty nine dollars. Now, the average current cost
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: that those clinics are charging a patient for a standard
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: consultation is just over eighty five dollars, which means that
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: every single time a clinic accepts that bulk billing incentive
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: payment instead of charging the average standard consultation price, they
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: are foregoing sixteen.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: Dollars per appointment for that.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: So even just looking at that at a high level,
• 10:28
  Speaker 4: it was difficult for us to understand how you reach
• 10:32
  Speaker 4: that forty eight hundred number. Now, some of some clinics
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: will charge way below the average price, and so it
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: makes sense then for them to switch. But clinics that
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: are charging at that average or charging way above it,
• 10:44
  Speaker 4: the business decision doesn't seem there to me.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: Craig, Yeah, well that I mean to me, who is
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: an outsider looking in and who's completely uneducated in this space?
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: I know we were joking that there's one or two
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: people or probably more that weren't particularly thrilled with you
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: bringing this to light, right, But I mean, if what
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: you're saying is true, which I believe it is, well,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: then I mean that's not an opinion, that's not an
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: idea or a story. This is just data, right, This
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: is literally these are literally just numbers. And so when
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: you think about that sixteen dollar gap or discrepancy, and
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: you think, well, how often would that sixteen dollars happen
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: in a given day in a given clinic, and then
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: your times that by fifty two weeks in the year
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: and so which like the the you know, the income
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: is plummeting, but the expenses are not.
• 11:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so how how can without getting you into trouble,
• 11:50
  Speaker 5: how can they argue with what you're presenting, like when
• 11:54
  Speaker 5: you're saying, look, this is this is not a some
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: hysterical idea or construct or story.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: You know, this is based on all the information we
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: have access to, which is legit well to.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Be completely honest.
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: Where yet to hear a coherent argument against our modeling
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: or our reporting. No one has come out at any
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: point and said, they've gotten the mats wrong here, they've
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: gotten the bulk billing incentive wrong. Here, that the underlying
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: figures that they're using, so the billing statistics that they
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: have for clinics are wrong. No one has at any
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: point come out and said and challenged us on the
• 12:34
  Speaker 4: mats of it, challenged us on the.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: Merits of the assessment.
• 12:38
  Speaker 4: The entire challenge throughout the whole throughout the whole process,
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: has been on the credibility of clean ber, which to
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: me seems like the sort of thing that gets challenged
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: if you don't have a challenge to make on the data.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: And I suppose the clinics that don't switch to bulk billing,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: the the out of pocket expenses or costs for the
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: average punter will continue to rise.
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, so that's something that we've seen as well,
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: and Craig, I'm really glad you've brought it up. So,
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: because the additional payment is conditional upon a GP clinic
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: bolk billing, a patient who walks in the door, the
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: GP clinic actually isn't receiving any more money if they
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: don't bolk build, they're still just receiving the standard Medicare
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: rebate that they would have received regardless. And if they're
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: just receiving the standard Medicare rebate, it's reasonable to assume
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: that the out of pocket costs will stay the same
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: as well, or in a lot of cases increase as
• 13:38
  Speaker 4: they have each of the last two years. And so
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: that's a really important point to make for patients too,
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: because I think a lot of people look at this
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: headline spend and they see, you know, seven point nine
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: billion dollars. It's a huge amount of money. Even if
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: I'm not being bolk billed. This is going to lower
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: my costs when I go to the GP. And it's
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: important to know the cost before you go into that
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: practice because that may not actually be the case.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: So where does the average person begin to understand this
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: and then apply this information in a practical way that
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: they can benefit from it? Like if I live hypothetically
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: in Hampton, who would live in Hampton? But if I
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: lived in Hampton, Victoria and I wanted to figure out
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: the most cost effective way without me traveling to you know, Geelong,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: God blessed Geelong, how do I do that? I? Where
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: do I go? And so do I just go into
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: your website and type in my postcode?
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: So this is the purpose of clean Bill.
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: I mean, Australia already has one of the most complex
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: healthcare systems on earth even before these changes take effect,
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: and it's very very difficult for a person who is
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: busy with every other aspect of their lives to try
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: to figure out how to interact with this system, how
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: the different changes and policy a decisions that are made
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: are going to affect their everyday visit to the GP.
• 15:07
  Speaker 4: And so clean Bill's aim is to take all of
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: that information and simplify it, make it so that you
• 15:14
  Speaker 4: can do a search on a single directory. You can
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: see every single GP clinic around you. You can filter
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: them by price, filter them by availability, and you can
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: see exactly how much it's going to cost you to
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: go and visit that GP, before you have to pick
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: up the phone, before you walk in the door.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: You can see exactly what that cost is going to be.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: And we're going to continue to update this information throughout
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: from first November, taking into account the changes that GP
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: clinics will make as a result of this policy, and
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: as a result, will have updated information on our website
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: too that people can use. So rather than it being
• 15:50
  Speaker 4: kind of a cerebral discussion about how GP clinics are
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: going to adopt different BOLG building measures and whether it
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: makes economic sense, we're just going to take the figure
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: that matters to you, which is how much it's going
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: to cost you to see a GP, and we're just
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: going to put that online completely free of charge for
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: you to search up.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if this is an answerable question,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: but I'm sure it is.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: How do you guys get all your data? Like, how
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: do you collect your data? What's that? I mean?
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Because obviously you need to be I would imagine, very
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: transparent about all of that, so everyone can see what's
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: going on and go, well, you know, this is just
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: this is just numbers, this is just information, This is
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: just clear data. Ergo these, ergo this conversation.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So that's a really good point, Greg, and we
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: have we are as transparent as we can be about
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: our data collection process, but at its base, it's really
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: not all that different from the process that you or
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: I would go through.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: If we're trying to find a doctor around us.
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: We go out, we research, do online research, find every
• 16:59
  Speaker 4: single clinic around us around us that might be a
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: GP clinic and might be taking on new patients, and
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: then we create large scale lists for our teams of
• 17:10
  Speaker 4: callers to go through and call every single practitioner, every
• 17:13
  Speaker 4: single clinic rather on those lists and ask some very
• 17:17
  Speaker 4: basic questions of them, So are.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: They taking on new patients?
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: Will they BOK bill a regular adult patients or non
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: concession adult patient, And if they won't, how much is
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: a standard and a long consultation going to cost with
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: that clinic for that patient, Which again is exactly what
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: any of us would do if we were looking for
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: a GP, and we just do it on a far
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: larger scale, with large teams of callers and researchers, data
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: managers as well helping us out, so that instead of
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: it being a case that each individual Australian has to
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: go out and do this calling themselves, we just do
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: it all in one goal and then put it on
• 17:52
  Speaker 4: a searchable directory so that anyone can find that information
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: in just one search.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know this to each who, of course,
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: but it would seem to me that clinics who do
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: totally bulk bill would have to be overwhelmingly busy, wouldn't they.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: I mean, wouldn't that like which would And again I'm
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: not talking about any clinic or any doctor or any person,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: but I'm thinking how busy would they be? And how
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: under the pump would all of those medical professionals be
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: to see all of those people, to treat all of
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: those people, to give them the attention and energy and time.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: That must be a tricky process as well. I know
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: I'm diverging a little bit off the chat, but I
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: was just thinking practically. I mean, if there's one across
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: the road that's fully bulk built and one down the
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: road that isn't I'm guessing I know which is the
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: busy one.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: No, Look, I think that you've touched on a really
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: important point in the last part there, Craig, is that, yes,
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: I imagine a lot of fully balled billing clinics are busy,
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: but we're also in a system a very imperfect information
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: at the moment. That's what clean bill is trying to fix.
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: So if you have, for example, the Yellow Pages, the
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: Yellow Pages might only list eighty percent of GP clinics
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: around you, and the bulk billing clinics may be too
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: busy or may not make enough money to advertise through
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: the Yellow Pages. So when you're going on the Yellow Pages,
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: you're only finding the clinics around you who aren't bulk billing,
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: and that's not helpful for you if you need a
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: bulk billing GP. So clean Bill doesn't rely on clinics
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: coming to us and paying us in order to be
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: a part of it. We go out and find them
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: and we say we're just going to put you on
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: the website. Everyone gets put on the website, so it's
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: it's not an either all thing. Every single person we
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: can find is on the website and then it means
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: that you, as a patient, have that perfect information and
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: can see every single clinic around you.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: What do you hope happens like you? And what's your goal?
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: What's your intent behind all the research and the report, Like,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: what do you want to see that perhaps we're not
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: currently seeing?
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: Well, we really see our goal as being twofold. The
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: first is related to the directory. What we hope happens
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: as a result of the directory is that patients have
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: access to all the information they need to make clear
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: decisions about affordable and available healthcare options around them. And
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: that sounds complex, but basically, we just want a world
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: in which people can see all of the doctors around
• 20:33
  Speaker 4: them and can book in with them, knowing all the
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: information about pricing, knowing all of the information about bookings,
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: knowing those doctors' specialist areas. We don't want it to
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: be the case that people need to do hours of
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: online research themselves and then take time off work to
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: do calls during business hours to find that information. We
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: just want it to be ready to go. And the
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: second point, and this one relates more to our reports,
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: is our focus with the reports is on improving the
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: public discussion around healthcare in Australia. We want to make
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: sure that our decision makers when they're considering changes to
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: healthcare policy, have all of the information they can possibly
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: have on the table, and clean Bill provides a set
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: of information that is not available in any other from
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: any other data source, but which is the information the
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: perspective of the system that every day Australians see every
• 21:32
  Speaker 4: single day.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: So that's that's our focus there.
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: But there's also there's also a I guess behind our reporting,
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: an attempt as well to provide more transparency in the
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: public debate around how Medicare works and how the billing
• 21:49
  Speaker 4: of it works, so that when there are policy decisions
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: that are made everyday, people are able to effectively vet
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: what that means for them ahead of and make conscious
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: healthcare decisions as a result of it.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: I guess November one is going to be interesting. I mean,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: that's the thing about putting. I mean, when you think
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: about it, or here's a timeline and here's a number. Yeah, well,
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: I mean that's not up for interpretation, so we go, okay,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: oh mate, you said at this date this would be reality.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: I you know, and I'm not trying to be as
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: smart ass here I'm just thinking, well, that's there's either
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: going to be four thy eight hundred clinics nationally that
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: will be fully bulk billing or there isn't.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: Like it's a pretty it's a pretty clear kind of metric.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Isn't it to go, oh, you did what you said
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: you were going to do or you didn't do what
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: you said you were going to do.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: I wonder what's going to happen around then.
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: Well, I think it'll probably be a little bit delayed
• 22:49
  Speaker 4: after one November, so we'll be collecting our data from
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: one November until mid December, and then we'll be releasing
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: it as soon as we've collected it. So our Blue
• 22:58
  Speaker 4: Report will come out in early January next year, as
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: it has each of the last three years, and that'll
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: be the first, at least to my understanding, that'll be
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: the first comprehensive independent assessment of how many GP clinics
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: have started fully bolk billing as a result of this change.
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: And yeah, I suspect there's there's going to be a
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: fair bit of attention paid to that.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I bet they love you in Canberra, or at least
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: one or two people.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: I bet, I bet, I bet he doesn't I bet
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: he doesn't have pictures of or he or she. I'm
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: not sure who the health minister is. I should know
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: that I have, you know, like pictures of you are
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: sitting on his desk framed or maybe he does with a.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: Target in the middle of it or something. Mate, It's
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: good to talk to you.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Anything else that I'm not asking you that I should
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: ask you anything that you want to drop on us
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: or share before we say goodbye.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: No, I think I think you covered off on everything.
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: Craig has always a pleasure to talk to you about
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: this stuff.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: Mate.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: We appreciate you because I try not to talk about
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: your old man, but.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: You're such a ship off the old block.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: And I tell you, what, if he could be as
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: good as you are, Hey, gilespo sonor if you're listening,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: watch your son. Listen to your son and do better
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: you old fat. I'm seeing him tonight, mate, we're recording tonight,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: so no kidding, yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, we'll say goodbye
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: fair but James, always great to talk to you.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Well done on what you're doing. I love your reason,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: I love your motivation, I love.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Your ethics, and I love how driven you are to
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: do some good stuff and make a positive impact despite
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: a little bit of pushback at times. Thanks for chatting
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: with us on the new project, Mate and TIV, thanks too.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: Thanks guys, Thank you guys.