Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Hollywood star Jim Carrey suicide-lover forged STD claims! Bombshell in murder of gorgeous DJ!

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Hollywood star Jim Carrey suicide-lover forged STD claims! Bombshell in murder of gorgeous DJ! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM Triumph Channel
0:10
Speaker 1: one two. That was the sound of a funeral. You know.
0:35
Speaker 1: They're photos of them and grinning on Valentine's Day, their
0:39
Speaker 1: arms wrapped around each other, Hollywood superstar Jim Carrey and
0:46
Speaker 1: his petite, tiny little girlfriend, the Irish makeup artist. The
0:53
Speaker 1: photos of them on Valentine's looked like it was an
0:56
Speaker 1: ad for a romantic comedy. But just one one year later,
1:02
Speaker 1: that girlfriend, his lover, Kathriana White dead found dead, surrounded
1:09
Speaker 1: by prescription peels, and she leaves behind a suicide note
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Speaker 1: and a devastated funny man Jim Carrey. The world watched
1:23
Speaker 1: as Jim Carrey, who had actually broken up with Katharina
1:28
Speaker 1: months before, looked devastated as he told the world how
1:34
Speaker 1: he would always love her, and he then jetted off
1:38
Speaker 1: to Ireland for a private funeral in her hometown with
1:43
Speaker 1: her family. Then everything went sideways. Joining me right now,
1:51
Speaker 1: Alexis terres Chuck, investigative reporter from Radar Online dot Com.
1:57
Speaker 1: Jim Carrey, who we all grew up think. I mean,
2:01
Speaker 1: that's one of a movie that I can show my children,
2:04
Speaker 1: And we've watched it over and over and over. Uh
2:08
Speaker 1: a Sventura Pet Detective, which spawned a Sventura Pet Detective too.
2:14
Speaker 1: This is a guy that can be funny without being
2:19
Speaker 1: you know, using bad words that kids can't hear. He
2:24
Speaker 1: never fails, you know. It's and we think we know
2:28
Speaker 1: him because we've watched him so much. But then suddenly
2:33
Speaker 1: he was leveled with horrible claims by the family of
2:39
Speaker 1: his dead girlfriend. Catharine's mother says that she discovered after
2:44
Speaker 1: her daughter committed suicide that the reason that she did
2:47
Speaker 1: so was because she was so upset after the breakup,
2:50
Speaker 1: but because she claimed that Jim Carey had given her
2:54
Speaker 1: an STV. She claimed that he gave her herpies and
2:58
Speaker 1: that she had been suffering with this years and years
3:01
Speaker 1: and years, and that she was so depressed after their
3:04
Speaker 1: breakup and her sexually transmitted disease diagnosis that she just
3:08
Speaker 1: couldn't handle living anymore. So I guess she's claiming that
3:11
Speaker 1: she claimed that dating Jim Carrey, they had unprotected sex
3:18
Speaker 1: and he gave her her peace and it affected her greatly.
3:25
Speaker 1: Then she claims, against her desires, he breaks up with
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Speaker 1: her and she's devastated and feels like not only has
3:34
Speaker 1: she been discarded, but she's got to live the rest
3:36
Speaker 1: of her life without finding love because she's going to
3:39
Speaker 1: have to tell her next boyfriend, oh yeah, I have
3:44
Speaker 1: her peace. You know, I can understand being devastated and upset,
3:51
Speaker 1: but to commit suicide to Karen Stark, that is what
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Speaker 1: her family claimed, that she committed suicide because of having
4:03
Speaker 1: her pies and but committing suicide here and start, well,
4:07
Speaker 1: that's not because it doesn't make any sense that it
4:10
Speaker 1: would be because of that. So many people wind up
4:14
Speaker 1: having her pies without understanding that they've contacted it or
4:20
Speaker 1: how they got it. It doesn't mean anything, Nancy. What
4:23
Speaker 1: we're looking at is somebody who is a very troubled person.
4:28
Speaker 1: There's it's alleged that before she committed suicide, she received
4:33
Speaker 1: a cruel message from her mother, so something was going
4:36
Speaker 1: on and in the relationship between her and her mother.
4:40
Speaker 1: I don't think that she was able to handle the
4:43
Speaker 1: breakup with Carrie, and there was a lot more that
4:47
Speaker 1: was going on with her. Then the fact that she
4:51
Speaker 1: had an st it was actually three STDs that she
4:56
Speaker 1: claimed he gave her, and then she never sued, but
5:00
Speaker 1: her family from Ireland sued post mortem. But right now
5:07
Speaker 1: we are learning Jim Carrey has been cleared in this
5:11
Speaker 1: wrongful death lawsuit launched by her Irish family, the family
5:15
Speaker 1: of his ex girlfriend, after Jim Carrey's lawyer proves she
5:21
Speaker 1: was trying to blackmail him with forged STD test results.
5:28
Speaker 1: Now the family sue Carrey, claiming he was responsible for
5:32
Speaker 1: Katharina's death. That's been thrown out. She claimed he gave
5:37
Speaker 1: her three STDs, but Jim Carrey's lawyer finds these medical
5:42
Speaker 1: records were actually used to blackmail Jim Carrey, whoa White's
5:49
Speaker 1: family also claims carry gave her the drugs she used
5:53
Speaker 1: to kill herself. You know, Alexis is stunning because this
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Speaker 1: lawsuit for millions and millions of dollars has potentially anyway
6:03
Speaker 1: has been dragging on against Jim Carey. He's been dragged
6:06
Speaker 1: through the mud that he would mistreat his girlfriend this way,
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Speaker 1: give her three STDs and then dump her. It's been
6:14
Speaker 1: going on forever. It's really given him a black eye.
6:17
Speaker 1: But now it turns out none of it's true. Alexis,
6:21
Speaker 1: and everybody really was on her side. Everybody thought that
6:25
Speaker 1: Jim this really turnished his reputation. People thought that he
6:29
Speaker 1: would be so cruel to this young girlfriend that he
6:31
Speaker 1: would give her this STD and then dump her and
6:36
Speaker 1: then never never speak to her again, and then when
6:39
Speaker 1: things were so bad that she committed suicide. So it
6:42
Speaker 1: has been something that has He hasn't really had a career.
6:45
Speaker 1: He's done a few movies here and there, but nobody
6:48
Speaker 1: has done anything except focus on this girl's death. You know.
6:51
Speaker 1: The actor's lawyer apparently has now proven that Katharina Waine,
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Speaker 1: the former girlfriend, forged medical records to kill look like
7:01
Speaker 1: she had no STDs before meeting Jim Carrie. As you know,
7:10
Speaker 1: he is now claiming the Irish makeup artist blackmailed him
7:15
Speaker 1: overclaims he gave her her piece. He says he paid
7:19
Speaker 1: her an undisclosed sum in two thousand thirteen just to
7:21
Speaker 1: make it go away. You know, Ashley Wilcott, your very
7:26
Speaker 1: first question was, well, if all of this is not true,
7:29
Speaker 1: why did he pay her off in two thousand thirteen? Right? Sure,
7:33
Speaker 1: But I think it's a risk benefit analysis because let's
7:36
Speaker 1: assume there's anything that he doesn't want the public to
7:39
Speaker 1: know about his private life. Right, Like any famous person,
7:43
Speaker 1: she knows everything about him. So while he may know
7:46
Speaker 1: it's not true. He may say to himself, it's easier
7:50
Speaker 1: for me to pay her off and give her some
7:52
Speaker 1: money than risk her being a vindictive girlfriend or ex
7:58
Speaker 1: girlfriend and sharing things with the PubL like that. I
8:00
Speaker 1: don't want the public to know, not that he'd given
8:02
Speaker 1: her a disease that's not true, but anything else that
8:05
Speaker 1: might be true that he wanted to keep private. Now,
8:07
Speaker 1: as it turns out, Jim Carey's lawyer, Raymond Boucher bo
8:13
Speaker 1: U C h e R. Discovers that kathry Onner White,
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Speaker 1: the makeup artist, edited patient information. I forged it on
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Speaker 1: a friends two thousand and eleven sexually transmitted disease test
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Speaker 1: to make it look like the medical records were her own.
8:36
Speaker 1: I mean, who would think to question a medical record?
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Speaker 1: But this lawyer, you know, having nowhere else to go,
8:43
Speaker 1: decided to investigate. This makeup artist had been dating Carey
8:48
Speaker 1: for about three years, use the friends medical records, changing
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Speaker 1: the name and date on them, and then then when
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Speaker 1: he was on the trail, apparently to Indy Patrick, Southern
9:01
Speaker 1: California prosecutor, joining us you know, how to prove a case,
9:05
Speaker 1: he then was like a dog after a bone. He
9:08
Speaker 1: started searching text from the dead girlfriend to this unnamed
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Speaker 1: friend to show she asked the friend to get her
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Speaker 1: medical records from Planned Parenthood. One of those texts, Wendy Patrick,
9:21
Speaker 1: actually says, I need to see the layout. I will
9:24
Speaker 1: need to work on it before I give it to him.
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Speaker 1: WHOA that torpedoes the case? Yeah, you know, Nancy. One
9:31
Speaker 1: of the things that distinguishes this story from so many
9:34
Speaker 1: others that we hear is that you're right and that
9:36
Speaker 1: many people took the victims side at first because they
9:39
Speaker 1: saw it from the perspective of a young makeup artist
9:42
Speaker 1: dating a wealthy, well known funny man that was beloved
9:46
Speaker 1: in the industry at the time, and we naturally took
9:48
Speaker 1: her side. So when we're looking at this paper trail
9:51
Speaker 1: of text messages where she's talking to her friend about
9:54
Speaker 1: forging records to blackmail Carrie, the whole case turns on
9:58
Speaker 1: its head, and all of a sudden, there are kudos
10:01
Speaker 1: for this lawyer for, like you say, being relentless and
10:03
Speaker 1: following this trail doing everything he can to clear his client.
10:08
Speaker 1: He certainly earned his money on this case and did
10:11
Speaker 1: in fact prove that those were forged records for blackmail. Purposes. Well,
10:14
Speaker 1: we all recall that last year Jim Carrey, you know,
10:18
Speaker 1: Hollywood icon, claims that Katharina had threatened to go to
10:22
Speaker 1: the press with false claims he gave her STDs unless
10:26
Speaker 1: he paid her quote millions of dollars. You know, Uh,
10:32
Speaker 1: Karen start New York psychologists. I guess when you're at
10:35
Speaker 1: the level of Jim Carrey, I mean, who can you
10:38
Speaker 1: date that's not going to try to use you? And
10:41
Speaker 1: she was I guess scorned. He broke up with her,
10:44
Speaker 1: and she was angry, and this was her get back. Well,
10:47
Speaker 1: and he's he really has to be very careful because
10:51
Speaker 1: take a look at what everyone is saying, Nancy, Well,
10:55
Speaker 1: everyone is saying that they were they really felt sympathy
10:58
Speaker 1: for her. They sought her as a victim because he
11:03
Speaker 1: was this powerful person, and yet he was ripe to
11:06
Speaker 1: be preyed upon. Because you have to be very careful
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Speaker 1: who you date, understanding whether they are after you because
11:15
Speaker 1: you're a celebrity or because they want to know you
11:18
Speaker 1: as a person. Do they have a troubled past. It's
11:23
Speaker 1: very difficult to be in the public eye and to
11:26
Speaker 1: know who to trust. You know, Ashley Willcott, I'm just
11:31
Speaker 1: looking at some of the texts. She apparently didn't just
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Speaker 1: forge medical records to blackmail Jim Carrey and really dragging
11:41
Speaker 1: through the mud ruined his good name out his sex life.
11:45
Speaker 1: But she texted all these texts. Actually, I'm looking at
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Speaker 1: them right now. She's saying, I'm still kind of sick,
11:52
Speaker 1: but I'm fine. I got a couple of bumps down
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Speaker 1: there again. I felt them this morning, so I want
11:58
Speaker 1: to get it checked. Uh. And Jim Carrey is like,
12:02
Speaker 1: I hope you're okay. Then she writes again. She says,
12:06
Speaker 1: I understand you're worried. Imagine how I'm feeling right now.
12:09
Speaker 1: I'm the one that should be three freaking out. If anything,
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Speaker 1: I'm sure, Uh, it's just the abrasion thing you were
12:16
Speaker 1: talking about. I hope you're okay, honey. It could be
12:20
Speaker 1: from someone before me. It doesn't show up until you're
12:24
Speaker 1: really stressed. Most likely something else. Feel better, Um, you know.
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Speaker 1: Then she keeps writing, and in the midst of writing
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Speaker 1: about her STD pain, she says, I wake up and
12:39
Speaker 1: go to sleep hoping you are doing good. I don't
12:43
Speaker 1: even think your attention was on it in the slightest
12:47
Speaker 1: I'm out of sight I'm staying quiet. I am invisible.
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Speaker 1: I no longer matter. I get it, but it doesn't
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Speaker 1: mean I'm not going through it and I still exist. Listen,
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Speaker 1: she's clearly mixing it all up with her pain from
13:02
Speaker 1: being scorned, right, and you don't you know, I don't
13:07
Speaker 1: want to speak ill of the dead, but honestly, when
13:10
Speaker 1: you read those texts, that makes so abundantly clear that
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Speaker 1: she is a manipulative in doing everything she can to
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Speaker 1: extort whatever she can from this man. You know, she
13:22
Speaker 1: looks so sweet and innocent. The bombshell right now. Jim
13:28
Speaker 1: Carrey movie Hollywood TV Icon. I mean, I remember this
13:33
Speaker 1: guy all the way back to in Living Color, and
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Speaker 1: I loved him, loved him then. That's when I first
13:39
Speaker 1: found out about Jim Carrey. And the reason I love
13:42
Speaker 1: him today is because I can play some of his
13:45
Speaker 1: movies for the children and I don't have to send
13:48
Speaker 1: him out of the room like everything else on TV.
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Speaker 1: So I gotta tell you, I don't know what this
13:54
Speaker 1: means Karen start, But when this all first came out
13:58
Speaker 1: that he had allegedly given her an t D and
14:01
Speaker 1: dumped her and she committed suicide, I felt so bad
14:04
Speaker 1: for her. But I felt I couldn't believe it, because
14:09
Speaker 1: you know how we feel like we know people we
14:11
Speaker 1: watched on TV all the time. I thought I knew
14:13
Speaker 1: Jim Carrey. Nothing could be further from the truth. Well,
14:16
Speaker 1: of course, I mean, we identify with our celebrities and
14:20
Speaker 1: we've followed their lives, look at the Kardashians. But the
14:24
Speaker 1: truth is, in this case, this very beautiful, innocent looking
14:29
Speaker 1: girl could not deal with the fact that he was
14:33
Speaker 1: going to take her out of his life, that she
14:35
Speaker 1: was heartbroken, and that whole thing that she keeps saying
14:40
Speaker 1: about being invisible without him in her life. She was
14:45
Speaker 1: feeling like she didn't matter anymore, that she wasn't a person.
14:50
Speaker 1: She kept needing to find a way to get his attention. Unfortunately,
14:55
Speaker 1: somebody gave him very bad advice and told him to
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Speaker 1: pay her off. Wendy Patrick, You've got to hear this letter.
15:03
Speaker 1: Alexis terres Check joining me this morning from Radar online
15:06
Speaker 1: dot Com. Alexis, listen to this. This is a letter
15:10
Speaker 1: written by Catchery on a white found after her suicide.
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Speaker 1: It was on her iPad. She writes, you have not
15:18
Speaker 1: thought about the stigma I have to live with the
15:20
Speaker 1: rest of my life. You have not apologized or once
15:24
Speaker 1: asked is there something you can do to make it better,
15:26
Speaker 1: or even felt bad about it, or ask me how
15:29
Speaker 1: I'm feeling. Instead, you did a whole lot of screaming
15:32
Speaker 1: and turned it around on me. Have you even once
15:34
Speaker 1: sat down and thought how this really affects me? I
15:37
Speaker 1: still love you. I believe you sent me that text
15:40
Speaker 1: because you cared about me. I was going to tell
15:43
Speaker 1: my lawyer. I didn't want to go any further with
15:45
Speaker 1: it when I realized you changed lawyers and were advised
15:49
Speaker 1: to text me. It probably wasn't coming from you at
15:52
Speaker 1: all at all the decent thing to do. What is
15:55
Speaker 1: that I think about keeping quiet and private about it
15:58
Speaker 1: when I want to scream from the rooftops. You know
16:02
Speaker 1: what I want and it's nothing to do with money.
16:05
Speaker 1: It goes on and on and on about making him
16:11
Speaker 1: feel bad, making him feel awful, alexis torres check And
16:16
Speaker 1: now it turns out the whole thing is a line.
16:18
Speaker 1: She completely went to the most extreme after they he
16:23
Speaker 1: broke up with her. They had a very a few
16:26
Speaker 1: year relationship. Honestly, they were very under the radar, the
16:29
Speaker 1: two of them. They weren't walking red carpets together, doing
16:33
Speaker 1: a lot of things in public. So when he broke
16:36
Speaker 1: up with her, it was her ticket to Hollywood. It
16:39
Speaker 1: was everything, the biggest star in Hollywood that you're dating,
16:42
Speaker 1: and he cut her off completely from that life that
16:44
Speaker 1: she still wanted. She didn't want to let him go.
16:47
Speaker 1: And that's what she writes. It's not even the money
16:49
Speaker 1: she wants. She wanted him still. But you can't make
16:52
Speaker 1: somebody love you. So she got a lawyer involved. And
16:56
Speaker 1: then she admits in that letter that you just read
17:00
Speaker 1: that she was manipulated. She felt she was manipulated by him,
17:04
Speaker 1: except she was the one doing the manipulation. She's the
17:07
Speaker 1: one that forged the documents. Listen to what Jim Carrey says.
17:11
Speaker 1: Listen to this. I will not give in a second
17:14
Speaker 1: time to these same fraudulent charges initiated by Cat's husband
17:18
Speaker 1: in name but not substance, Mark Burton, and her estranged mother.
17:23
Speaker 1: Nor am I responsible for what these desperate characters have
17:27
Speaker 1: inadvertently unearthed about the woman I adored. I was clearly
17:33
Speaker 1: blinded by my affection. Regardless, I will hold a place
17:37
Speaker 1: of empathy and forgiveness for Cat and continue to focus
17:41
Speaker 1: on the many blessings in this life. You know what,
17:45
Speaker 1: he couldn't have been more of a gentleman, and he
17:49
Speaker 1: couldn't have given a better or sweeter statement. I was
17:55
Speaker 1: the very very best to Jim Carrey because he has
17:59
Speaker 1: really been through hell and back with this lawsuit. Before
18:07
Speaker 1: we leave Hollywood and head to New Jersey on our
18:11
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Speaker 1: go wrong? Beautiful home, beautiful family, even working as a
20:10
Speaker 1: charity fundraiser for military veterans, beloved in her community. She's dead.
20:18
Speaker 1: I'm talking about April Kaufman found dead and the master
20:24
Speaker 1: suite of her family home. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
20:28
Speaker 1: crime stories, stunning developments. Thank you for being with us.
20:32
Speaker 1: Let's kick it off right now in the Handyman calls nine.
20:36
Speaker 1: Listen and I'm on my merger emerge yes, I had
20:41
Speaker 1: down her arm Okay, who would dog drive? Lynwood? Who
20:48
Speaker 1: would do drive? Yes, ma'am. Okay, hold on, I'm transferring
20:53
Speaker 1: to the rescue Apperty, get down the line one minute. Okay, Okay,
21:04
Speaker 1: Actually he's he's actually calling calling me. Partner on the
21:12
Speaker 1: floor in her bedroom and he got a cut on
21:14
Speaker 1: her army dry. Who would have ever imagined it would
21:25
Speaker 1: unfold the way it did. We know this, We know
21:30
Speaker 1: that she was shot multiple times. Joining me right now,
21:34
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, Ashley Willcott, lawyer and advocate, Karen
21:39
Speaker 1: Stark Renow, New York psychologist, and Mary Hopkins Crime Stories
21:43
Speaker 1: investigative reporter. When the handyman who worked for the Coffin
21:49
Speaker 1: family first came in, he didn't know what had happened.
21:52
Speaker 1: We can tell from the nine one one call the
21:54
Speaker 1: husband has an airtight alibi. Husband is a very well
21:59
Speaker 1: respe acted indocrinologist there in the area Lyndon, New Jersey.
22:05
Speaker 1: And you've got nurses, patients, secretaries, the works that place
22:10
Speaker 1: him at work. You know, we always look at the
22:12
Speaker 1: husband first airtight alibi. He says she was asleep with
22:16
Speaker 1: a pillow over her head when he left early that
22:19
Speaker 1: morning to Karen Stark, why is the husband or the
22:23
Speaker 1: partner always the first suspect. Well, he's closest to the
22:30
Speaker 1: woman that's killed, to his wife, and there's usually a motive. Well,
22:35
Speaker 1: the reality is that statistically, Karen Stark, Karen joining me
22:39
Speaker 1: from New York today, Statistically, it normally is the partner,
22:44
Speaker 1: the husband, the wife, the girlfriend, the boyfriend, the ex Statistically,
22:49
Speaker 1: that's normally who commits the murder. That's why police look
22:53
Speaker 1: at him first. But again, he had an airtight alibi.
22:57
Speaker 1: So let's move forward with what we know. We know
23:01
Speaker 1: he has this alibi. She's dead. The daughter, Kim Pack
23:06
Speaker 1: always suspected her stepfather, Dr. Kaufman, no matter the alibi,
23:11
Speaker 1: no matter the secretaries and the customers and the patients
23:15
Speaker 1: and this and that saying he was here. She always
23:18
Speaker 1: suspected her stepfather. Take a listen to this. My mom.
23:23
Speaker 1: April Kaufman was murdered in her home May two thousand
23:27
Speaker 1: and twelve. Not a day goes by where I do
23:30
Speaker 1: not think about her, miss her terribly and wish that
23:34
Speaker 1: charges were filed against the individual responsible for her murder. Recently,
23:39
Speaker 1: I was brought into a federal lawsuit that is based
23:41
Speaker 1: upon my stepfather, Dr James Kaufman, seeking life insurance money
23:45
Speaker 1: from policies ensuring my mother's life. This is a very
23:49
Speaker 1: serious matter, and I, along with my attorneys at Darcy
23:52
Speaker 1: Johnson Day, have given careful consideration to what is at stake.
23:56
Speaker 1: This morning, through my attorneys, I've filed paperwork in federal
24:00
Speaker 1: court to stop Dr Kaufman from obtaining the money. I've
24:03
Speaker 1: purposely tried to avoid directly talking about what happened. But
24:07
Speaker 1: now after being brought into this lawsuit, I have no
24:10
Speaker 1: choice to respond and to begin to fight for what
24:13
Speaker 1: I know is right. I can no longer sit back
24:19
Speaker 1: and allow what I perceive as an injustice to occur.
24:23
Speaker 1: I know that my mom would not want me to
24:25
Speaker 1: sit back any longer. You know, Ashley Willcott, lawyer and
24:29
Speaker 1: child advocate, Is there just an inherent distrust of any
24:34
Speaker 1: step parent? Well, um, I don't. Maybe to be honest,
24:39
Speaker 1: maybe because you don't have the same trust and bond
24:42
Speaker 1: that you might with your own biological parent that you've
24:44
Speaker 1: been raised with or no at the difference right, and
24:47
Speaker 1: so I do think there may be um And statistically, unfortunately,
24:52
Speaker 1: there are a number of crimes when they're committed that
24:56
Speaker 1: are done by stepparents, boyfriend's girlfriends. Well, as I said,
25:02
Speaker 1: stunning developments right now. Police then began to focus not
25:08
Speaker 1: on Kaufman's alibi, but on his financial doings. Wendy Patrick,
25:15
Speaker 1: Southern California prosecutor with incredible track record. They couldn't come
25:21
Speaker 1: up with an answer. They couldn't find out who was
25:23
Speaker 1: the triggered person. Of course, they first looked at the handyman.
25:26
Speaker 1: He's there on the scene with a dead body. He
25:29
Speaker 1: calls nine one one. Then they look at the husband.
25:32
Speaker 1: No good, no forced entry. Nobody could figure out what
25:36
Speaker 1: was happening. And in this ritzy neighborhood, of course, nobody
25:39
Speaker 1: saw a thing. So Wendy Patrick, the prosecutor starts, you know,
25:44
Speaker 1: time is passing, the body has been buried, the funeral
25:48
Speaker 1: has been had, the daughter is grieving and seeking vengeance
25:52
Speaker 1: as she should. They start digging into Dr Kaufman's finance. Says,
26:00
Speaker 1: you know, as they always say, follow the money, Wendy Patrick,
26:06
Speaker 1: what happened? I love it, Nancy, and you you stole
26:09
Speaker 1: my line. You probably said it better, absolutely right, follow
26:13
Speaker 1: the money. You know you talk about why you might
26:15
Speaker 1: look at a spouse emotion and access, and those two
26:19
Speaker 1: things necessarily sometimes include the money, whether it's going to
26:23
Speaker 1: divorce settlement, whether it is a threat to expose the
26:26
Speaker 1: something that's bigger that the spouse knows about. But it's
26:29
Speaker 1: one of those things where you don't have to be
26:31
Speaker 1: personally president of crime. Seemed to be the suspect, or
26:34
Speaker 1: to actually be the one that did it as in
26:36
Speaker 1: this case, so the prosecutors, they just were tenacious and
26:39
Speaker 1: following that money trail, and as they did so, more
26:43
Speaker 1: and more clues came to light. It was a great investigation,
26:47
Speaker 1: and I know it's frustrating, but justice delay does not
26:50
Speaker 1: have to be justice denied, because eventually they found their man,
26:53
Speaker 1: much to the delight of the daughter who finally is
26:56
Speaker 1: going to find a measure of justice here. And what's
26:58
Speaker 1: so incredible in this case Ashley Willcott, lawyer, an advocate.
27:03
Speaker 1: You know, when I think of my doctors, they're always
27:05
Speaker 1: so formal and proper and buttoned up. Nothing could be
27:10
Speaker 1: further from the truth in this case. As it turns out,
27:14
Speaker 1: this very proper, buttoned up, successful indo chronologist it's actually
27:22
Speaker 1: running an illegal drug ring with who else The motorcycle gang,
27:28
Speaker 1: the Pagan outlaws. What now, Ashley, you're not only an
27:33
Speaker 1: advocate but a lawyer. You've picked through plenty of money trails,
27:37
Speaker 1: as have I. Oh when I was a FED. Unlike
27:40
Speaker 1: when I was a local prosecutor, violent crying prosecutor, and
27:43
Speaker 1: I was a FED, they lived for money trails. Me
27:46
Speaker 1: investigating for the FEDS was me alone in a room
27:49
Speaker 1: full of boxes of paper. Okay, Yes, that's right. That's
27:54
Speaker 1: how they make their cases. Not so with the state
27:57
Speaker 1: prosecutor where you're at on the street, with the do
28:00
Speaker 1: dealers and the prostitutes and the armed robbers finding witnesses. No,
28:05
Speaker 1: you follow the paper trail, Ashley Wilcot, How does a
28:09
Speaker 1: lawyer how would they find the paper trail that Wendy
28:14
Speaker 1: Patrick was and was talking about? I mean, how do
28:17
Speaker 1: you get in there and find out a motive for murder?
28:21
Speaker 1: Amongst the boxes of paper? You look for the bank accounts,
28:26
Speaker 1: for deposits, for receipts of money. You look at the
28:29
Speaker 1: business transactions, because that money is necessarily coming in and
28:34
Speaker 1: going out of some accounts that you get a subtena.
28:37
Speaker 1: You get to those records and you go through them
28:40
Speaker 1: and like you said, it's tedious. It's a lot of work.
28:42
Speaker 1: They've done a bang up job. Well, I'll tell you what, Ashley.
28:46
Speaker 1: The whole time after April Kaufman was found gunned down
28:49
Speaker 1: in her room. You know, in my head, I'm like,
28:51
Speaker 1: the husband did it. Of course he did it. But
28:54
Speaker 1: as it turned out, with that airtight alibi, I was flummixed.
28:57
Speaker 1: Of course, I kept screaming, where is the where is
28:59
Speaker 1: the us? It took a long time, but when they
29:03
Speaker 1: started digging through what they believed to be a paper trail,
29:07
Speaker 1: they came upon no other than the head of the
29:11
Speaker 1: Pagan Outlaws motorcycle gang. So they go to Dr Kaufman's
29:18
Speaker 1: very pristine, very popular, very posh, upscale medical clinic, and
29:26
Speaker 1: what happens to Mary Hopkins Crime Stories investigative reporter. When
29:30
Speaker 1: they get there just for a search warrant. Nobody's going
29:34
Speaker 1: to get arrested. They just want to go through his
29:36
Speaker 1: financial records. What goes down, Mary Hopkins? James Kaufman met
29:41
Speaker 1: him at the door and said he had a gun
29:43
Speaker 1: in his hand. He said, I'm not going to jail
29:45
Speaker 1: for this, and he had a nine millimeter handgun. He
29:48
Speaker 1: never pointed it at police. But he threatened to kill himself,
29:51
Speaker 1: so police there was no standoff. As a matter of fact.
29:54
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this sound of the standoff. Now,
29:57
Speaker 1: remember police get there just to execute a search warrant
30:02
Speaker 1: to go through his medical financial records. He begins wildly
30:07
Speaker 1: brandishing a gun, threatening to kill himself, once again holding
30:11
Speaker 1: himself hostage. Karen Stark, I'll get with you on that
30:15
Speaker 1: in a moment, but listen to the standoff as it
30:19
Speaker 1: goes down. Thanks, what are you doing? Thanks? Stupid questions
30:23
Speaker 1: on the last week, doll coming back, come back, coming back. Now,
30:42
Speaker 1: hold on, it's coming out. It's coming out. District five,
30:49
Speaker 1: District five. We got one gun point. We have one
30:51
Speaker 1: at gun point. Dr James Calfman, I have won a
30:57
Speaker 1: gun point, Dr James calf And he has a weapon.
31:00
Speaker 1: Drop the gun. Drop the gun. Hey dropped the gun.
31:05
Speaker 1: Drop the gun, sir, drop the gun. Just drop drop
31:13
Speaker 1: the gun. Let's talk, sir, Just drop the gun. War
31:18
Speaker 1: we have such war. Listen in your half your car person,
31:25
Speaker 1: I don't believe it. Yes, I'm not going to the weapon.
31:32
Speaker 1: Day drop the weapon. Listen, let's talk. Listen, let's talk, sir.
31:40
Speaker 1: Watch this window, Watch this window. Watch this window, District five.
31:46
Speaker 1: We have a barricaded subject inside. He's gotta hang him
31:50
Speaker 1: to the room. We're at a Dr James Coffin's office, Nancy.
31:56
Speaker 1: The standoff with police lasted just over six minutes. Sending
32:00
Speaker 1: included repeated exchanges like this with the authority. Listen, just
32:04
Speaker 1: drop the weapon. Listen, let's talk all. It is a
32:07
Speaker 1: search one. It's a search warrant. It's a search one.
32:11
Speaker 1: There's a search warr's right here, right by the bush,
32:17
Speaker 1: right by, right by the bush. It's a search warrant.
32:20
Speaker 1: It's a search warrant, the search war for medical stuff.
32:24
Speaker 1: To chill out. This isn't arrested them. You're not getting arrested. Listen,
32:31
Speaker 1: don't have a guy. We don't have We're gonna be
32:35
Speaker 1: a medical office. Look at the search warts. The standoff
32:39
Speaker 1: ended as Dr Kaufman exited his practice, with police shouting
32:43
Speaker 1: instructions to him during his arrest. The curve, the curve.
32:54
Speaker 1: Now it's been around. Please by your door, Sae your
33:04
Speaker 1: door handside, Alan Duke, How in the hey did we
33:14
Speaker 1: manage to get our mits On the sound of the
33:17
Speaker 1: standoff as it went down in Coffin's medical clinic. It's
33:20
Speaker 1: our good old friend, the body camp. There were plenty
33:23
Speaker 1: of cops around, they had them, and so we've got
33:25
Speaker 1: this incredible video. So they go in to execute the
33:28
Speaker 1: search want and you know what, as Shakespeare said, me
33:31
Speaker 1: thinks thou doth protest too much. You know, if the
33:33
Speaker 1: cops show up at my door and say I want
33:35
Speaker 1: to see your your financial records for last year, I
33:39
Speaker 1: would say, you know what, have at it if you
33:41
Speaker 1: can find them. This guy begins brandishing a weapon, waiving
33:48
Speaker 1: a weapon wiley, a nine millimeter, his office full of patients, nurses, clerical,
33:54
Speaker 1: threatening to kill himself. Karen Stark, you're gonna kill yoursel
34:00
Speaker 1: elf or shoot a cop because they want to look
34:02
Speaker 1: in a box of financial records. Well, right there, that
34:06
Speaker 1: shows that he's trying to hide something, Nancy, And what
34:09
Speaker 1: is he doing with that gun to begin with? And
34:13
Speaker 1: you think about this upstanding, supposedly doctor, and he had
34:18
Speaker 1: this whole dark side to him where he needed more money,
34:22
Speaker 1: this connection with a gang, And it doesn't surprise me
34:26
Speaker 1: that they come up to arrest him and he reveals
34:31
Speaker 1: who he really is to Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor, with
34:35
Speaker 1: an incredible record, Wendy, this is not what you expect
34:40
Speaker 1: when you just execute search warrant. I mean, have you
34:42
Speaker 1: ever seen the show Cops? When I was at Court
34:44
Speaker 1: TV that started showing it some at night. That's the
34:47
Speaker 1: first time I was ever exposed to it. You know,
34:49
Speaker 1: they played the bad boys, Bad Boys, what You're gonna do?
34:53
Speaker 1: That whole thing and the Cops. It would show a
34:56
Speaker 1: guy sitting sitting in his easy chair watching TV and
34:59
Speaker 1: the to just start running through the house and you
35:01
Speaker 1: just sit there and keep watching TV. You'd never get
35:03
Speaker 1: out of his easy share, Okay. And I love that scene.
35:07
Speaker 1: That's the search for being executed, the cops just running
35:11
Speaker 1: past them behind him. He's like, hey, hey, dude, here
35:14
Speaker 1: Coughlan grabs a gun and threatens to kill himself. Wendy Patrick,
35:18
Speaker 1: that raid of financial records lead to the most stunning
35:26
Speaker 1: twist in the murder of April Cofflin. I never expected it.
35:30
Speaker 1: What did they find, Wendy, Right, Well, they found it
35:32
Speaker 1: in some a lot of the information they were seeking.
35:34
Speaker 1: And part of the problem for this doctor was the
35:37
Speaker 1: way he responded when they served the warrant. And you're
35:40
Speaker 1: so right on the money when it comes to how
35:42
Speaker 1: would you respond if you either didn't realize why the
35:45
Speaker 1: cops were there or didn't have anything to hide, you
35:47
Speaker 1: would probably think that you'd have a much more measured response,
35:51
Speaker 1: particularly because this was during the day when the clinic
35:55
Speaker 1: was open. This wasn't the middle of the night raid
35:57
Speaker 1: or a pre dawn raid as you sometimes see, especially Nancy,
35:59
Speaker 1: as you know on the federal side. So they took
36:02
Speaker 1: all that into consideration in deciding whether or not they
36:04
Speaker 1: were going to move forward on the case. Because, as
36:06
Speaker 1: we know, reaction is huge. It's one of the reasons
36:10
Speaker 1: we have to interview people in person rather than send
36:13
Speaker 1: them a set of interrogatories to answers. You want to
36:16
Speaker 1: see that real life response because it really is telling
36:20
Speaker 1: as to whether or not somebody has in fact nothing
36:22
Speaker 1: to hide or here is going to lead you to
36:24
Speaker 1: some of the information you're seeking. And this is where
36:29
Speaker 1: it landed. This upstanding and very well respected New Jersey
36:33
Speaker 1: doctor had been running an illegal prescription opioid drug ring
36:39
Speaker 1: I'm talking about OxyContin, oxycodone, all the street names for that,
36:45
Speaker 1: with a motorcycle gang. Now, obviously at some point he
36:52
Speaker 1: had come into contact with one of the gang members
36:56
Speaker 1: and that started the whole thing. This is how it
36:59
Speaker 1: went down. The gang would send him, actually, the head
37:03
Speaker 1: of the Pagan Outlaws allegedly would send Dr Kaufman a
37:09
Speaker 1: quote patient. The patient would get a free prescription and
37:13
Speaker 1: just write him a script for opioids, say OxyContin. That
37:19
Speaker 1: outlaw would then go Pagan Outlaw motorcycle gang would then
37:24
Speaker 1: go and say he'd have a hundred oxyconton pills, two
37:27
Speaker 1: hundred maybe a six month supply and he goes sell
37:31
Speaker 1: them on the street. If he got the prescription, he
37:34
Speaker 1: would get a kickback of a thousand dollars. A thousand
37:37
Speaker 1: dollars Wendy Patrick, California Prosecutor, that's a drop in the
37:42
Speaker 1: bucket of what you could sell two hundred oxyconton for
37:45
Speaker 1: on the street. Yeah, you know, you gotta. I mean now,
37:48
Speaker 1: one of the things about drug sales is you've got
37:50
Speaker 1: to know your customer. You've got to know the market price,
37:52
Speaker 1: the going rate. But yeah, when it comes to drug sales,
37:55
Speaker 1: especially as you know, on the federal side, the penalties
37:58
Speaker 1: can be sky high, and one of the things you
38:00
Speaker 1: look at is what kind of a profit were you making.
38:03
Speaker 1: We live in a day and age in an opioid
38:05
Speaker 1: epidemic when we have in the last five or six years.
38:08
Speaker 1: But you know, back in the days, sometimes we're surprised
38:11
Speaker 1: at what pills sold for on the street. Nonetheless, this
38:15
Speaker 1: is a very lucrative enterprise. And following the money trail
38:19
Speaker 1: in this case is what led to some of the
38:22
Speaker 1: financial exploitation that made this good doctor look very, very guilty,
38:27
Speaker 1: and especially in combination with everything else they were learning about.
38:30
Speaker 1: So here's Dr James Kaufman with the mansion, a gorgeous wife,
38:36
Speaker 1: local popular dj um, beautiful woman, the step daughter, that
38:43
Speaker 1: gorgeous home, the everything, his own private practice, a medical clinic.
38:49
Speaker 1: But he wanted more money, Karen Stark, you know, the
38:52
Speaker 1: love not money, but the love of money said to
38:55
Speaker 1: be the root of all evil. He just couldn't get
38:57
Speaker 1: enough money, Karen. And that's following the money again, Nancy.
39:01
Speaker 1: He really was a greedy man. Something was empty inside
39:06
Speaker 1: of him. You would think with his practice and his popularity,
39:11
Speaker 1: there would be no need for him to be involved
39:13
Speaker 1: in anything that was illegal, and yet he needed to
39:18
Speaker 1: have more and more and more. And the reality is
39:21
Speaker 1: Ashley Willcott, the wife, had found out about April Kaufman
39:26
Speaker 1: and said, either you divorce me and I take half
39:29
Speaker 1: our money, or I'm exposing your drug ring. And that
39:34
Speaker 1: is when the murder happened, because it's not just about
39:38
Speaker 1: Kaufman running a prescription opium that's you know, that's a
39:44
Speaker 1: derivative of heroin, the poppy opioid drug ring with a
39:48
Speaker 1: motorcycle gang. When she threatened to leave him, he didn't
39:52
Speaker 1: want to part with half of his financial empire. He
39:55
Speaker 1: would rather have her dead. The problem with her divorcing him,
39:59
Speaker 1: she either exposed the drug ring or he would be
40:03
Speaker 1: exposed to a financial forensic expert and they would find
40:07
Speaker 1: all this money. So apparently his only alternative was to
40:12
Speaker 1: have her killed. Now another six people connected to the
40:16
Speaker 1: Pagan Outlaw motorcycle gang charged with racketeering and the drug
40:21
Speaker 1: ring and connected to the killing, we believe, And in
40:26
Speaker 1: the midst of all this, Kaufman ends up dead by suicide.
40:32
Speaker 1: Ashi Wilcott, do you believe that you think he really
40:35
Speaker 1: killed himself? I don't know, but I have to say
40:38
Speaker 1: it is about the money, but there's more going on.
40:40
Speaker 1: It's his psyche because not only is it about the
40:44
Speaker 1: money that he got by selling the oxy cot and
40:46
Speaker 1: it is the dark side it is working with the
40:48
Speaker 1: motorcycle gang, and people don't normally resort to murder because
40:54
Speaker 1: someone wants to divorce them and take half of their money.
40:56
Speaker 1: So there's a whole lot more going on with this
40:59
Speaker 1: man up there and his long story short, the raid,
41:04
Speaker 1: the raid on the medical clinic ends in charges not
41:09
Speaker 1: only for the drug ring this upstanding doctor was connected
41:15
Speaker 1: to was actually the ring leader of with a motorcycle gang,
41:18
Speaker 1: but to murder. Listen today, James Kaufman, age sixty nine,
41:23
Speaker 1: and Ferdinand Agello, age sixty two, were charged with murder
41:28
Speaker 1: in connection with the death of April Caufin, in addition
41:32
Speaker 1: to racket heering relating to the illegal distribution of narcotics
41:37
Speaker 1: through Caufman's former medical practice. Additionally, Agello is charged with
41:42
Speaker 1: conspiracy the murder of James M. Couchman. Upon information and
41:48
Speaker 1: lead known to my office, an individual named Francis Frank
41:52
Speaker 1: Mulholland was paid a sum of money to kill April
41:55
Speaker 1: Cauf almost eighteen months after April Coufman's murder. Frank Mulholland
42:01
Speaker 1: died in October of two thousand thirteen. By at the time,
42:05
Speaker 1: what was determined to be an accidental drug overdose. Through
42:09
Speaker 1: our investigation, we determined that a long term alliance between
42:13
Speaker 1: members of the Pagan Outlaw motorcycle Gang and James Kaufman
42:18
Speaker 1: was created for the mutual financial game through the use
42:24
Speaker 1: of Calkin's medical practice for a legal drug distribution. This
42:28
Speaker 1: relationship ultimately culminated on May tenth, two thousand twelve, with
42:32
Speaker 1: the murder for hire of April Cautman. Prior to two
42:35
Speaker 1: thousand eleven, defendant Kaufman and Ferdinand Algello had a relationship
42:40
Speaker 1: which centered around the medical practice, and then the summer
42:43
Speaker 1: of two thousand eleven, James Kaufman solicited Algello to murder
42:47
Speaker 1: his wife. Listen to the daughter who Never gave up,
42:51
Speaker 1: Kimberly Pack. As you can imagine, today is a very
42:55
Speaker 1: very difficult day for me and for my family. UM,
43:00
Speaker 1: a lot of mixed emotions. UM. As a victim, you know,
43:05
Speaker 1: May ten, two thousand and twelve, forever changed my life.
43:11
Speaker 1: I have been waiting patiently for justice, and today I
43:17
Speaker 1: was lucky enough to be granted justice. I do understand
43:21
Speaker 1: that this is going to be a very long process,
43:23
Speaker 1: and this is by no means over I think for
43:27
Speaker 1: the first time today, I can actually breathe. For the
43:30
Speaker 1: past five and a half years, I have felt I
43:32
Speaker 1: felt like I've been holding my breath on a daily basis.
43:37
Speaker 1: I couldn't even begin to describe to you today, UM,
43:43
Speaker 1: the emotions that I feel. I feel like I'm standing
43:45
Speaker 1: before you and I'm shaking. I I want to really
43:50
Speaker 1: take time to thank my attorneys here at Darcy Johnson
43:53
Speaker 1: Day and most importantly, these two men that stand beside me. UM.
44:00
Speaker 1: They have been like my guardian angels. They stood by
44:03
Speaker 1: me when it wasn't popular and when UM, you know,
44:07
Speaker 1: I didn't really know that I was ever going to
44:09
Speaker 1: obtain justice. They have fought for me since day one,
44:13
Speaker 1: and I am forever grateful for these two gentlemen. UM,
44:16
Speaker 1: this firm has believed in me and allow me the
44:20
Speaker 1: platform to speak up and stand up for justice for
44:23
Speaker 1: my mom. I also want to thank you guys in
44:27
Speaker 1: the media for not allowing this story to ever dissipeate. UM.
44:31
Speaker 1: When you are a victim of a crime, there's no handbook.
44:34
Speaker 1: You're not really sure which direction to go, how to
44:38
Speaker 1: UM navigate. UM. Sometimes the legal system can be quite challenging,
44:44
Speaker 1: and UM, you know each and every one of you
44:46
Speaker 1: that has always um reached out to me, tried to
44:49
Speaker 1: keep the story alive. I really really appreciate it, and UM,
44:53
Speaker 1: I thank you from the bottom of my heart. I
44:56
Speaker 1: also want to thank everyone that has provided kind words, prayers, um, books, flowers,
45:04
Speaker 1: you name it. Um, all these gifts that have been
45:07
Speaker 1: bestowed upon me. I'm very lucky. I'm very lucky to
45:09
Speaker 1: have such communal support, and I will cherish that more
45:13
Speaker 1: than uh than any of you realize. Even from a
45:16
Speaker 1: kind word, a gesture of putting your hand on me,
45:18
Speaker 1: telling me that you're with me, it really means a
45:21
Speaker 1: lot to me. UM. I really am at a loss
45:27
Speaker 1: for words, probably for once in my life. UM. For
45:30
Speaker 1: what else to say, UM, but thank you for taking
45:33
Speaker 1: the time to Wendy Patrick. You just heard the daughter.
45:36
Speaker 1: It's so happy to seek justice in her mother's murder.
45:41
Speaker 1: Wendy Patrick, it ain't over yet. After he's charged with
45:45
Speaker 1: murder the husband, what about the trigger man? The trigger
45:49
Speaker 1: man turns out to be a guy named Joseph Mulholland,
45:52
Speaker 1: also a member of the Pagan Outlaws. Then, amazingly, isn't
45:58
Speaker 1: it true Joseph Mulholland, the trigger man who says, who
46:04
Speaker 1: was uh Joseph Mulholland, who claims he was given twenty
46:10
Speaker 1: dollars a gun and driven to April Kaufman's mansion that morning.
46:16
Speaker 1: He's dead too of an overdose. What a coinkie dink.
46:20
Speaker 1: The only people tying the motorcycle gang to this murder
46:25
Speaker 1: are dead. The trigger man, Mulholland is dead. And now
46:30
Speaker 1: in the last hours we learned Dr Kaufman's found dead
46:33
Speaker 1: in his jail cell. Yeah, I'll tell you this is
46:35
Speaker 1: so fishy. And you know, it's one thing to talk
46:37
Speaker 1: about gangs and drugs and money, and when you put
46:41
Speaker 1: everything together, Nancy, you've got a perfect storm not only
46:44
Speaker 1: for murder of the primary victim, but also sometimes murder
46:49
Speaker 1: of the collateral witnesses. And now when you look at
46:52
Speaker 1: this case in retrospect and people that dies along the way, yes,
46:56
Speaker 1: you could argue, well, gosh, when you're involved in the
46:58
Speaker 1: dark side and drugs and money and all of that
47:01
Speaker 1: goes along with that lifestyle, you're more likely to have
47:04
Speaker 1: a hit put on you. But on the other hand,
47:06
Speaker 1: when you look at the motive for these people either
47:09
Speaker 1: committing suicide or as is suspected, being murdered. You can
47:14
Speaker 1: see where there's lots of motivation to actually believe that's
47:18
Speaker 1: the way it went down. Not that you need to
47:19
Speaker 1: necessarily prove motive to prove murder, but boy, it's sure help. Well,
47:23
Speaker 1: here's the thing. Mulholland dies of a drug overdose pretty
47:29
Speaker 1: quickly after the murder of April Kaufman. Then Kaufman. Dr
47:34
Speaker 1: Kaufman goes to jail. Now we have learned because the
47:39
Speaker 1: head of the motorcycle gang as a chatty cathy he
47:43
Speaker 1: taught to a guy that was wired up, there was
47:46
Speaker 1: already a hit on Dr. Kaufman. He goes to jail,
47:51
Speaker 1: he gets another death threat. They moved into another jail,
47:54
Speaker 1: He gets a death threat, and then he's found based
47:57
Speaker 1: down dead, asphyxiated in his own bed. The wardens say, oh,
48:02
Speaker 1: we just thought it was asleep to Wendy Patrick. I mean,
48:06
Speaker 1: you've got all these death threats you've got to hit
48:08
Speaker 1: out on you. You're the only witness connecting back to
48:12
Speaker 1: a motorcycle gang. You don't think that gang has friends
48:16
Speaker 1: on the inside of that jail house. Oh you bet
48:19
Speaker 1: they do. And that's one thing that we've all got
48:20
Speaker 1: to remember is Simply because somebody is in jail doesn't
48:23
Speaker 1: necessarily mean they're not going to be either a defendant
48:26
Speaker 1: or a victim in this case. You know, that's one
48:28
Speaker 1: of the reasons that prisons want to make sure they
48:31
Speaker 1: keep an eye not only on people with gang ties
48:34
Speaker 1: on the outside world, but also on people that they
48:36
Speaker 1: already know might be targeted. And that's one of the
48:40
Speaker 1: tragedies in a story like this, where there is this
48:43
Speaker 1: suspected at least motive that you can get this guy,
48:46
Speaker 1: regardless that he's in and out of custody and no
48:48
Speaker 1: matter where he is. But didn't wasn't there some help involved?
48:52
Speaker 1: Is it that easy to pick off somebody when they're
48:55
Speaker 1: in custody. It just makes the case more interesting, but
48:59
Speaker 1: it also makes the case more deadly and more frightening
49:03
Speaker 1: for other people in similar scenarios where they might be
49:06
Speaker 1: the only percipient witness left to a murder like that.
49:09
Speaker 1: The Knee Jersey doctor who orchestrated the murder of his wife,
49:15
Speaker 1: his radio host wife to stop her from exposing his
49:19
Speaker 1: biker gang drug ring, has apparently killed himself. Does that
49:24
Speaker 1: main awe prosecution of the Pagan outlaws has gone straight
49:28
Speaker 1: down the tebes absolutely not. And you know, lots of
49:32
Speaker 1: cases involved witnesses becoming unavailable and all that does Evidentiarily sometimes,
49:36
Speaker 1: as you know, Nancy, is makes other evidence admissible that
49:39
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been. So there are lots of creative ways
49:42
Speaker 1: that prosecutors can get around witnesses being unavailable, and that'll
49:46
Speaker 1: be what we always actually what we always look at
49:49
Speaker 1: when we lose a witness, even a victim, Nancy. There's
49:51
Speaker 1: lots of times that people think, gosh, well, we'll just
49:54
Speaker 1: do away with this person. Yet we can still bring
49:57
Speaker 1: that testimony to life, either through others or through what
50:00
Speaker 1: the person said before they die. We are on the
50:02
Speaker 1: case and watching as hopefully justice unfolds. Her husband, the
50:07
Speaker 1: good doctor is not the only one with blood on
50:09
Speaker 1: his hands. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off, Goodbye friend,