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Winning Culture! · Business Roundtable

0:01
Hi everybody, Welcome back. This is David Carr of Stewart Your Business.
0:05
We're at the Business Roundtable podcast here today, joined with some great colleagues.
0:13
Just to give you a quick background, David Carr Steward Your Business Here,
0:17
I focus on organizational health team engagement. I help other small business owners and
0:22
their teams. And so we have a great topic tonight that's going to be
0:24
a facility by doctor Curtis Cochrane, which we'll come back to you in a
0:28
moment, but before that, I want to have Bill Hatch introduce himself this
0:32
evening. Go ahead, Bill sure. My name is Bill Hatch. I
0:36
am a leadership guide and podcaster. I have three podcasts I do. Two
0:41
are called YWL Online where we bring biblical topics into the modern world, and
0:48
the third is a secular just general interest interview and roundtable discussion not too dissimilar
0:58
from this called Not Quite After Night. But and then I also do UH
1:06
teach leadership under the banner of Triple Braided World. Awesome, thanks Bill,
1:14
and Charlie Chen want to introduce yourself. Awesome, Thank you for having me
1:19
again, David. So, my name is Charlie Chen, the cybersecurity specialists
1:25
of the group here and I work as a Chief Experience Officer for Intellisis.
1:30
We are a managed security service provider helping small to mid sized businesses protect their
1:38
livelihoods, deliver that peace of mind, and also that world class hospitality experience
1:44
that you would expect from like a Ritz Carlton for example, but you know,
1:49
within the technology field. Thank you, And we've got our special author
1:57
and guests facilitator, doctor Curtis Cochrane. Go ahead, Curtis, take it
2:01
away. Okay, thank you, Curtis Cochran. We are a mergers and
2:07
acquisitions firm specializing in our E force system and tonight we're going to be talking
2:15
about culture. And as David said, you know, I wrote a book.
2:23
A colleague of mine, mister Boyd Woolves, and I wrote a book,
2:29
Oh gosh, it's been about two to three years ago, and it's
2:32
The Winning Culture. And when we were talking about the topic tonight, I
2:39
thought Winning Culture and then I wrote a book so on. So you know,
2:46
tonight I want to ask my colleagues here a couple of questions and feel
2:52
free to respond to however you wish. Now, this first question is it's
2:59
kind of interesting. Yeah, what when somebody asks what is business culture?
3:07
What does that mean to you? Gentlemen? And I'm gonna start with you,
3:10
Bill, What what does that mean when somebody says, what, you
3:15
know, what is business culture? Well, business culture is the combination of
3:22
personalities, written rules and unwritten rules of conduct that that people combine to uh
3:32
to create the way that they tend to do things and business business wise.
3:40
That is what I would say. That's that's good Charlie. How about you?
3:47
I would say it's definitely what Bill said, and also most importantly stemming
3:54
from the mission statement, the company uh core value, and just the overall
4:02
mindset, you know, in terms of mentality that that basically the company and
4:13
each of the staff and body, So that that would be what I would
4:17
define as the company culture. Good David, I love I like what you
4:25
guys both shared. Yeah, it's the sum of all these individuals as part
4:30
of this organization. You know, you you have, like you said,
4:32
Charlie, a mission or a vision, but it's what's really lived out on
4:35
a day to day basis by that that or that organism that or that organization,
4:43
and so culture, whether I like how you said it built some of
4:46
it's written out and it's very clear. So a lot of it is not
4:48
written, it's just kind of understood. Yeah, and so it's it's it's
4:54
developed over time, and it doesn't it's not something that stays static in my
4:59
my experience. That's good. Now, picture you're let's say that you're listening
5:09
to our talk here and you're you're starting out, maybe you're a young entrepreneur,
5:14
maybe you are you just started your own business. What would be some
5:16
of the first things that you would address your culture at the beginning. I
5:24
know that we've already talked about how it evolves, but what would be the
5:29
first thing that you would actually address your culture and what it would look like?
5:33
David, I want to start with you. That's a great question.
5:41
I think as a business owner, the culture is surrounded about partly around who
5:46
are you serving? What's the environment you're going into, because that's vastly different.
5:54
Yeah, and so to me, it was just for my own sake,
6:00
and I identify my avatar, my ideal client. That was really important
6:03
because I have to know and communicate values and relate and if I can't relate
6:12
to that ideal client, I'm not going to be very successful. So that's
6:15
where I started. Curtis is like, who do I want to serve?
6:18
Who do I like working with? Because that's the kind of people I want
6:23
to have in the organization that I'm building. That was important to me.
6:29
That's good, Bill, how about you? Actually, I think I'd go
6:33
with something Charly already mentioned, and that's the mission statement. You know,
6:41
the mission Statement is ideally supposed to say who we are as a company at
6:46
this precise moment in time. And I think I would slip that in front
6:50
of who we want as a customer, although it could certainly include that and
6:58
probably probably good. But but yeah, I would think the mission statement would
7:03
be the first thing I'd recommend coming up and writing down. That's good,
7:10
Charlie, he's thinking intently. You're still on mute, Charlie. Can you
7:19
hear me, Charlie. Oh, he might have he may be have trouble
7:25
hearing us. To come back to Charlie. We can come back. We
7:30
can come back to Charlie. All right, it looks like you might have
7:33
froze. Good answers. Now here's the next question. And this question is
7:40
I think about this all the time, and let me step back and you
7:43
know when I go and I work with businesses and we talk about mergers and
7:46
that, you know, and the acquisition's peace when it comes from you know,
7:51
all cultures are different. You go from one culture to the next culture,
7:56
they're all they're all going to be different. And each one of us
8:00
that's here tonight, and I'm sure that we've had we've dealt with cultures that
8:05
are really dysfunctional, and we've course dealt with cultures that really made us better
8:11
employees, or better managers, or better leaders. So what I'd like for
8:16
you to actually tell our audience, each one of you, and I'll start
8:20
with you, Charlie, if you can hear us now, is tell us
8:24
a little bit about a company or an organization that you were with that you
8:30
really didn't like the culture, and one that you actually did like if you
8:35
had either one of them. Charlie will start with you. No, you've
8:46
having difficulty connecting, No difficulty, all right, we'll give him some time.
8:52
Bill. How about you, We'll start with you. Well, actually,
8:56
i'd probably have to say that the the business I did not agree with
9:03
the culture, I actually quit. Uh in in quite a u his AirPod
9:11
died and uh it was a car dealership and uh, which quite often have
9:20
very negative cultures, and uh you know, uh, the it was very
9:28
much a very much a top down culture, do as we say, and
9:33
we don't want to hear anything to the contrary, and uh you know,
9:39
even even customers were treated negatively, and uh yeah, I I ended up.
9:46
I ended up quitting immediately after the the owner's son yelled at one of
9:52
my clients and who would who had just purchased a car? And uh so,
9:58
uh you know I I made that statement and uh and left immediately.
10:03
That was that was it. No two weeks notice or anything. As far
10:09
as as far as great company cultures. Wow, that's a that's a tough
10:18
one. My own culture, right, yeah, my my own solopreneurship has
10:26
the best has the best culture. I let myself get away with murder.
10:31
No, no, uh, I am still seriously developing exactly what I want
10:39
the uh the the business culture to be. You know, it's uh,
10:45
you know, is it being one person at this point, there's it's just
10:50
me, you know, that's that's my culture. But uh, you know,
10:56
I will I will be taking the bits and pieces of good culture that
11:00
that I've encountered over the course of uh of time to h to put together,
11:05
to put together the culture that I want to have as I expand my
11:09
business. Now do you find Bill? Do you find uh? And I
11:15
love I love both your answers here. But you know, we were talking
11:18
about belief systems and whatnot. Do you find that the cultures that you know,
11:26
the culture experienced with the car dealership? Uh? Do you feel that
11:31
it was say that the belief systems themselves were out of whack or it was
11:37
just because it was top down it do as I say, not as I
11:43
do? Kind of a thing. Uh that that kind of rubbed you differently?
11:48
I I think so in uh, in many ways, of course,
11:52
your your core beliefs will tend to you know, as a as a business
11:56
owner, will tend to permeate the culture of your business. And uh so
12:03
uh yeah, so you gotta you gotta be careful about that. Make sure
12:07
that that you have a positive and uh just a positive belief system that something
12:16
that is supportive of other people and uh you know, and doesn't doesn't prefer
12:22
to tear down. Yeah yeah, good? Uh David, how about you
12:28
sure I'll start with negative culture. Where I've had is where you are being
12:41
I'm all about being positive, where you're positively supporting folks like what you talked
12:46
about Bill. I think that's really important. Oftentimes, where I've been negative
12:50
culture is where they're really pushing, just challenging you, and they're not providing
12:54
you a lot of support. Uh So we're an element of this. For
13:00
I felt frustrated or struggled with one time as I was I was newly overseeing
13:05
a group and just this is an aspect of culture where they told me,
13:09
hey, come up with a sales plan, but I had no background as
13:13
to like what to look for what There wasn't the support there in order to
13:18
get it done. So it was like, do these things, but yet
13:20
I'm not giving you the guidance, not giving you the support in which to
13:24
do that. And when I asked questions, I kind of got crickets of
13:26
like well what about this that the other thing? And so it just made
13:28
me discouraged as like I want to do a good job, but I'm not
13:33
getting beginning the resources there or feeling like not really being heard. So that
13:37
was the negative side. On the flip side, the positive side was where
13:43
we created a culture of communication and vulnerability and sharing, and I was a
13:48
part of the leadership team, and I felt like we could talk about things
13:52
without fear of retribution or fear of like, you know, I don't have
14:00
all my stuff together, but that's okay because we've created this culture, like
14:03
we're on the same team. We're gonna work together, we're gonna help do
14:07
this together. And so I really appreciated that. On the same token,
14:11
that team if after a couple of years later, erote it a little bit,
14:18
so it doesn't like I said, it's it's not set it and forget
14:22
it. It does if you're not intentional about it. Even the great cultures
14:24
that you can have can change over time. So it didn't didn't maintain that
14:30
as much as I would have liked to. But at the time I was
14:33
really thankful for that company and that that transparency and camaraderie. On that second
14:41
one there, David, did did you decide to move on to a different
14:46
company, the one that you liked? Yeah, they went in a different
14:50
direction myself than I. Then it wasn't necessarily my choice, but it was
14:54
they went in a different direction, and that was okay. It was just
14:56
it was a different move. There was different people that came into play and
15:01
the culture changed because there was different leadership and they had different objectives and and
15:05
values candidly, and so it shows you how quickly things can change. You
15:11
see this why companies bring in right CEOs or other things like it's not working,
15:16
we want to change up this culture. It can be for the better,
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but it also can go for the worst. Good Okay, Charlie,
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did you did you get a chance to get the question? Do you know
15:28
the question? Yeah? I believe I just showing an example of a culture
15:33
that didn't work or work as well, or maybe even toxic or detrimental versus
15:39
one that was a standout sure, right? Is that just a good question?
15:43
Okay? Cool? So good culture? Yeah? Well, I guess
15:48
I'll start with what doesn't work and I'll come around to what does work.
15:54
So what, recalling from my past work experiences, what really is detrimental to
16:03
culture and creates toxicity is there's a lack of moral compass. And you know
16:11
what I mean by that is bending the truth, you know, saying white
16:17
lives. And because I predominantly I was involved in sales marketing early on,
16:22
and that never works in that aspect because then you're setting yourself. You're you're
16:30
setting the company up for failure because you're over promising and under delivering, and
16:37
so that definitely does not work and creates toxicity. And the other thing is,
16:44
I think somebody said it not leading by example. I do as I
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say, not as I do. That doesn't work either. So those are
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the two biggest detrimental things, like not having a moral compass and and not
17:00
eating by example. And then what works, obviously is having those and also
17:07
just being able to have a focus on the ca Caine can I mentality.
17:17
So Caine like c A n e I can I. That's from Tony Robbins.
17:22
It's just constant and never ending improvement. And so like you had mentioned,
17:27
David, it's not a stagnant thing. It's ever changing, ever evolving,
17:32
because that's the that's the only constant is change, right, So that's
17:38
kind of a paradox. But like you constantly have to reevaluates as things as
17:45
the work landscape and and the social landscape changes, you have to adapt and
17:52
and stay ahead of the curve. So I think just having that flexibility and
17:59
openness two look at and re evaluate, you know, hey, we have
18:03
this currently as a core value or this as a as a statement of how
18:10
we want to be and how we want to show up. But you know,
18:12
maybe we need to revisit that. You know, So just having that
18:17
openness and and having that flat organization where nobody feels intimidated to you know,
18:22
voice their their feedback, that's huge. And so that's that's when. That's
18:30
the type of culture that I'm involved with now. And so I think that's
18:34
a good recipe for a winning culture. These these are all good and these
18:44
are really good, I mean the good and the bad, let's say.
18:48
And I'll tell you it made me think so much about the companies that I
18:55
have seen. And and Bill, I'll take a page out of your book.
19:00
You know, I played college athletics for forever. I was sports and
19:07
whatnot, and I still remember that our head coach he had a system,
19:14
and that system was that the seniors and the juniors would would get an opportunity
19:21
to start up until you know, probably December kind of before we started our
19:29
season, until his son became a freshman, and then he changed that system.
19:37
So you can only imagine the culture and what happened and how upset many
19:44
people were, and so it kind of leads to my next My next question,
19:52
how big is the issue or the problem when ego comes into play from
19:59
leaders shit? And I'm gonna start with you, David. You what's your
20:04
thoughts on the ego when it comes in to play when it comes to culture.
20:11
Oh, that's a great one, and it's funny timely. I have
20:17
my own other podcasts I'm promoted to hear but I'm going to be launching that
20:19
coming up here. And my episode was just talking about helper Hindrance Curtis,
20:25
and I think when your ego gets in the way and you think you have
20:29
all the right answers, you kind of come around there, you think you're
20:33
actually helping on reality, you're doing actually hindering your team, and the ego
20:37
comes in and people start to shut down in my experience, and you actually
20:41
lose productivity in engagement because the business owner has such an ego and they have
20:48
to check themselves and really ask the question is this working or is this not
20:53
working? But oftentimes they can't get to that point because the ego, unfortunately,
20:59
it's just it's it's a barrier for them and and you really will win
21:03
when you're humble, But if there's there's there's there's there's truth to the saying.
21:08
You know, pride comes before the fall, unfortunately, and that's where
21:11
you see a lot of businesses fall and teams fall because the pride is there
21:18
if you can't get checked by your team or others, you know, by
21:22
creating that for yourself. And that's why I appreciate all of you guys,
21:26
because we come in in ways that we talk about what's working, what's not
21:30
working, We ask for that, actually say bring it on because we know
21:34
we'll be better off. But oftentimes business owners don't have that maturity and they
21:38
let the ego take over. Yeah, that's good, That's that's good,
21:45
Charlie. What's what's your thoughts on that? Yeah? Absolutely. I mean
21:51
when when you get into a situation where you're dealing with egos, that's where
21:56
the dysfunctions of a team kick in full four. And there's actually a book
22:02
called the five Dysfunctions of a Team, and so those five are absence of
22:07
trust. Number two is fear of conflict. Number three is lack of commitment
22:12
for his avoidance of team accountability, and most importantly, last one is in
22:19
attention to team objectives. Because it's not about the team anymore. It's about
22:25
the ego, right, and feeding the ego, which is not gonna help
22:29
with a winning team culture. That's good. I like that, Bill.
22:37
Yeah, ego, a big ego can be a big barrier to success.
22:42
You know. We see it. We see it in very successful people.
22:48
Sometimes they get a huge ego because of all they've accomplished, and all they
22:53
do is surround themselves with yes men and people who will say, oh,
23:00
yeah, whatever you say is a great idea, and uh and whatnot.
23:03
You know, that's one of the it's such a primary force in against UH
23:10
success that that humility is actually the first thing I try to instill in people
23:15
when I'm teaching them how to be good leaders, how to be ethical leaders
23:19
and uh, you know, because if especially because if you think you know
23:27
everything, then nobody can teach you anything. So I'm out of a job
23:33
if everybody suddenly thinks they know each other know everything. But but yeah,
23:38
yeah, humility UH can be a huge boon to UH to success, you
23:47
know, because it allows UH, it allows new ideas to UH to flow
23:51
in to UH to the primary decision maker and uh, you know, and
23:56
and growth results. So you know, I like that. And you know
24:00
what, you said something there that just on the heels of our next topic,
24:07
and you said something about leaders and how how does a culture this question
24:15
will be back to you, Bill, how does the culture create or develop
24:22
leaders? In your opinion, hm hmm. Well, starting with that,
24:32
with that humility, you know, accepting the the input of others is definitely
24:37
a huge part of that because it leads to the support of those who give
24:44
good ideas. You know. Uh. The person who has uh, who
24:48
has a good idea, who is supported might uh you might feel that they
24:52
could become a leader and uh, and then they'll seek out the opportunities to
24:57
to do just that, you know, creating opportunities to lead by creating teams
25:03
within the organization and UH. And even if if someone decides to leave for
25:11
uh for a leadership opportunity, to be supportive of that, you know,
25:17
because you certainly want people who have good feelings for you out there in the
25:22
wider world. So so, you know, being supportive of someone who who
25:27
leaves the organization in order to uh, in order to find a a leadership
25:32
opportunity that you don't have available for them, of course, will come back
25:36
to you because at some point you may need that person to to get you
25:41
into that business. Yeah, and uh, you know so so Yeah,
25:47
definitely, encouragement and uh and support are the are the biggest things I think
25:53
a business can do to to develop leaders. Yeah, that's that's good.
26:00
You know. One of the things that that I wanted to point out as
26:03
well, and Charlie will get to you next on this question is building that
26:07
business is building a business if you're an entrepreneur, build that business so that
26:14
you can leave it, meaning that you're teaching and you're teaching people how to
26:19
duplicate yourself. And that's and that's kind of what what I was getting at.
26:26
Charlie. What's your thoughts on that? Well, actually, my take
26:30
is you've got to try to find people that can make yours give you the
26:36
option to fire yourself from the company. And so the way you do that
26:41
is by just looking for rock stars only. And so, you know,
26:48
how do you determine rock stars? First? You know, you obviously measure
26:52
people, you're always recruiting, always putting out feelers, but at the same
26:57
time you're also wanting to make sure they're a good fit, right, so
27:02
you have to have your your your core values figured out. So that way,
27:07
you know, when you do the interviewing process, that's the that's what
27:11
you're interviewing for. And hire tough, and so make sure you interview two
27:19
three rounds minimum, you know, with yourself, with your team, with
27:26
somebody who's most intuitive. That's you know, within your decision making, your
27:32
your executive team. Obviously if you don't have that many people, but you
27:37
still want to have multiple people to really get a sense of that's if it's
27:45
a good fit. And from there then you manage easy. So hire tough,
27:51
manage easy, and like you said, you want to be able to
27:55
set it up so that you can walk away from it and come back and
27:59
the business is doing just fine, if not better than when you left it.
28:03
Because if it's all reliant on you, then you don't really have a
28:07
company. You just basically bought yourself another job that's even more miserable than any
28:14
other job that you could have gotten those employee. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:18
So the idea is you want to hire rock stars and get all the
28:22
way and go get their dry cleaning. That's the goal. Good, I
28:26
mean, that's good, David. How about yourself? You know, I
28:32
would say I hear what you're saying, Charlie, I'll say, you know
28:36
it is rock stars are good, but you have to have the team to
28:40
make sure that they all work together and they have that mentality. There's a
28:45
great Ted talk and I'll post it in the link here, but it was
28:51
talking about how if you have if you're if you're not careful about this and
28:56
you're not getting somebody that is quote the quote, the superstar are at the
29:00
at the expense of others, they can actually bring the company down. So
29:03
you want to make sure that everybody comes up. But that comes from what
29:07
Bill talked about, and too is mentorship. It's it's training the next level
29:12
below you. So as a business owner, what you're saying, Charlie,
29:18
what I heard you say is that you need to delegate down and empower those
29:22
other leave you that you don't have all the cars, you don't have everything
29:26
in there, and then that level below you do the same thing to the
29:29
next level, to the next level, to the next level. I don't
29:32
think, unfortunately, in my experience, business owners and as much time as
29:37
really as necessary in order to do that to get to that place where they
29:41
could step away. Charlie and and so they're they're they what we talked about
29:48
ego earlier, like I've got the answer, I'll fix this, I'll do
29:51
it, And so they're not delegating down. I like this imagery an orchestra,
29:56
right. If we have an orchestra, you can see everybody's got their
30:00
parts to play, and and you're the business owner, you're the conductor.
30:03
Right. But if you go and go to probably play everybody's instrument for them,
30:08
there's nobody conducting the orchestra. No, no, no, I got
30:14
to go fix this. No no, no, I got to fix this.
30:15
There's no the organization and it's not it won't function well. You need
30:21
to empower and do have them do the best that they can in their positions.
30:25
And so I think it's it's super important that you are mentoring and training
30:29
those below you. You can kind of call it a ciplesip model if you
30:33
will. But the point is we're trying to get those people and then they
30:36
go on to the next folks and the next volks and the next votes,
30:38
and it needs to be that culture. You if it stops at a certain
30:41
level, you got problems in the culture because it's not to go from the
30:45
top bottom top from from the top all the way down to the bottom,
30:49
and you need to continually realign that. But I agree with you, Charlie.
30:53
It's the goal is that you could walk away from the company and curtisy.
30:59
I know, you know that with your your mergers and acquisitions, you
31:02
do not want based on the business owner. You want this to make it
31:04
run holistically as much as possible, not based on a couple of individuals.
31:11
M hm. So yeah, if I may real if I may nag that
31:17
real quick. There's an old saying that that comes to mind. Be indispensable,
31:22
not irreplaceable. You know, if you're irreplaceable, then you're never going
31:27
to be able to move up and up and out to bigger and better things
31:32
at any level of a company, you know, from from the bottom up.
31:37
And uh, you know, but of course you want to be indispensable
31:41
in the company because you want them to value you. But but if you're
31:45
irreplaceable, then you're stuck wherever it is you happen to be. And so
31:52
so you need to create your own you know, within the systems that you
31:55
have control over, to to make them in such a way that they're repeatable,
32:00
that that somebody can come in and fill your shoes and uh, and
32:04
then you can move up and up to a different position in the in the
32:08
company with more responsibilities, or to go and move up and out to the
32:13
golf course. If if you happen to be in that position, you know
32:19
that that brings you know, I had another question, but just through it,
32:23
just maybe thinking about thinking about another another question, because you know,
32:28
we talk about beliefs and and egos, and we've talked about all of those
32:31
things and and what's interesting to me is and maybe you guys can shed some
32:37
light, and of course Charlie will start with you. But why do you
32:42
think that that people? Is it? You think the reason why they're afraid
32:49
too to help the people up the ladder instead of kicking the ladder, but
32:57
helping people? Is it? Is it our insecurities? It's is it our
33:02
ego? What is it that's keeping us from, you know, helping people?
33:09
And I'm only thinking about this because when the Seven the forty nine ers
33:16
and Joe Montana and Steve Young were playing together, they would not talk to
33:24
one another. Their egos were large, and Joe Montana just didn't want anything
33:32
to do with Steve Young. So what I'm wondering there is that is our
33:38
egos? Are we afraid to lose something? What is it you think is
33:45
keeping humans away from helping others lifting them up through your culture. I'll start
33:53
with you, Charlie. What do you think that that's all about? Well,
33:57
definitely the root caused from what I've seen, is a scarcity mentality.
34:02
So thinking that if I help somebody out, then that that's going to take
34:07
away from me and my opportunities and my value. And that's really not the
34:14
case unless you you know, that's the you know, the filter that you
34:21
project onto the world. Then of course you're going to find and collect all
34:25
the evidence that's going to prove you right. And so I mean ego comes
34:32
it's super detrimental because then for those that want to create more freedom and more
34:38
success in their business, right, yes, it takes you what like minutes
34:44
or seconds to make a decision or go do something that it would maybe take
34:49
ten or it actually takes thirty times. It's thirty times harder to make it
34:53
into a process that can be repeatable by somebody else. The e myth talks
34:59
about it, right or you have the McDonald's model. If you have the
35:02
process, so clear, you can plug in a high school's student and and
35:07
they can do it. And that's the challenge, right, It's it's that
35:12
much harder to process side process, tize it. But that's that's the path
35:19
to your freedom, is being able to set aside your ego. So like
35:23
you know, I've got if it needs to be done right, it needs
35:27
to I need to do it right. That's the whole ego mentality. And
35:30
and that's the scarcity mentality as well. It's like if I, if I
35:35
have helped somebody else do this, then what am I here for? You're
35:37
here for the bigger picture and you're here to create more opportunities and growth,
35:43
And so I think that's ultimately the root causes that scarcity mentality. Yeah,
35:51
I like that, David. What's your thoughts? Yeah, I'll just add
35:54
to that. I mean, there is we we have fears, like you
36:00
said, Charlie, whether it's rational or not, it's just part of our
36:07
human experience. And so if we can understand that, we can make better
36:15
choices. But oftentimes, you know, I love learning about how the brain
36:17
works, and we've got different components in our brain, and there's certain areas
36:21
which it is kind of the fight or flight area. If you will and
36:24
if we're not, it passes. It's actually goes pretty quickly. But if
36:29
you if you just react in the moment, you know it is it is
36:34
negative. But if you can sit with it and process it, and those
36:37
I think that if they can do inward reflection curtis and and really get at
36:45
what is in processing, that you can overcome it. But I don't think
36:49
a lot of people can. Don't They don't take the time to process that
36:53
and do self reflection, self development. It's much easier to blame others,
37:00
to be a victim, and so it feels empowering in the moment. It's
37:06
not, but it feels that way. You can well, this person to
37:08
jerk, or this thing is this situation or this that and the other thing
37:12
there are all deflecting because it doesn't mean that means I don't need to look
37:17
at myself. I doesn't mean I have to look at what I contributed to
37:21
this, because you might find some things in there that you don't like honestly
37:24
when you look at it. But it's it's much easier to deflect and get
37:30
frustrated and and look at others. So I agree with you, Charlie on
37:35
that mindset side of things and if we if we can go to that deeper
37:38
place. Years ago, when I started my journey, I think I'm gonna
37:44
mention this on previous podcasts, but I had to learn how to manage myself,
37:47
how to lead myself, and that's that's truly one of my passions why
37:52
I even started my company is to help folks peel back that. But it
37:57
does take somebody that's gone and done that before. It was really hard to
38:00
do it on your own, and my experience, a lot of work,
38:04
Yeah, a lot of work. Thank you, David bil what's your thoughts?
38:09
Well, you know, Charlie, Charlie definitely hit the hit the nailbout
38:14
on the head there, you know. But but yeah, it's it's something
38:19
that that I've studied a bit in my my interests in game theory and uh
38:23
and economics. You can see it. Uh. Well, the first thing
38:28
that comes to mind is the prisoner's dilemma, where where two prisoners are given
38:31
a choice to remain silent or rat out their their their partner, and people
38:37
are always afraid that their partner is going to rat them out, and so
38:42
it's like I better, I better get in before he gets me. We
38:47
don't live by the golden rule. And in the real out in the real
38:51
world, you know, it's not do unto others as you would have them
38:54
do unto you. It's doing to others before they do unto you. And
39:00
uh you know so so yeah, so we're we're all making that Faustian bargain.
39:06
Uh and uh you know, the deal with the devil and uh and
39:09
it's really detrimental to to everyone if we if we do that, you know
39:19
so uh so yeah, definitely, It's it's all about about changing that mindset
39:25
and getting people too two give before you know, the the whole uh you
39:34
know, play it forward. Uh you know uh uh mentality that we that
39:40
we have in in m and O that uh, you know, to to
39:45
give to others regardless of whether they give to you. You know, gentlemen,
39:52
I'll tell you, I really appreciate each and every one of you this
39:59
this topic. I think it's easier to manufacture a product or or develop a
40:05
service than to deal with culture because there's just so many different variables moving parts
40:13
to it. There's really I wouldn't say that there's a right answer, but
40:19
there's a right direction for sure that each of us go what's your what's your
40:27
final thoughts? David, I'll start with you, what's your final thoughts on
40:30
a winning culture? Yeah? No, I appreciate that, Curtis. I
40:37
mean it comes down to intentionality. Like you said, it's it's unfortunately,
40:42
I wish it was easy just to say it naturally comes around. You can
40:45
bring great people in, like you said, Charlie, that's key, but
40:51
it is something that you curate and you constantly have to look at and see
40:55
and evaluate what's working on what's not working in your in your organization, and
41:02
be ruthless about rooting out the things that are not working, like weeding a
41:07
garden if you will, because because it's true that you know they'd say that
41:13
one bad apple ruins a bunch. It definitely can and you can start a
41:16
great organization and unfortunately it can it can come to a quick demise if you're
41:21
not careful about it. So it is important to make that. I think
41:25
why we created this podcast and this conversation really is that we can we're sharing
41:30
abundance that we want others to know this and I would encourage you know,
41:35
those that are listening, reach out to any one of us here because we
41:38
all are passionate about this, and you can learn more about how we've used
41:42
it in our own businesses and our past. So really, I just want
41:47
to encourage you to be intentional, look at it, evaluated, and keep
41:52
coming back and seeing is this working or not working? And if it's not
41:55
working, reach out and get help. Look out yourself so that you can
42:00
have others come in and speak into and get healthy. The sooner that you
42:05
can get healthy. If you recognize something off, that's when you've got to
42:07
make the change. Don't delay because you're only doing your your demise. So
42:14
encourage you in action today. Very good? Yes Bill your final thoughts?
42:21
Yes? No, not sold at any stores, No I would. I
42:30
would say, you know, it's like, yes, you can. You
42:32
can do what you can to to hire great people who will who who have
42:38
the knack for these things. But you know, I gotta say, it's
42:42
uh, it's going to be training, training, training, you know,
42:46
uh, you know, giving giving people the knowledge constantly, uh, you
42:52
know, practice drill and rehearses. As one of my old trainers used to
42:55
say, looking at the sourus. But but yeah, you know I would
43:04
definitely say to uh to keep keep pumping. You know, the well's not
43:09
gonna not gonna pump itself, so uh, you gotta do it. Good
43:16
Charlie, any last thoughts from you, Well, the LA's most important takeaway
43:24
here is making sure you have that paradigm shift because Albert Einstein said this,
43:30
right, we cannot solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created
43:36
them. And so when we come from that scarcity of mentality mentality, it
43:42
doesn't give us any new possibilities. And so when you shift from scarcity to
43:47
abundance mentality, then you just acknowledge that there's not a shortage of money or
43:54
resources or people. There's only a shortage of ideas, and so how to
44:01
do something is none of our business. It's going back to what David said,
44:07
being intentional, Right, this is this is not easy, but it's
44:15
it is simple. It's not easy because human beings, we still have the
44:19
same wiring in our brain as the Neanderthals. Right where it's fight or flight,
44:24
it's take the path of least resistance because any moment we might have to
44:30
really kick in full year and full adrenaline for our survival. But we don't
44:35
live in caveman world anymore. Now. It's about like, instead of just
44:40
taking the path of leaves resistance and reserving that energy, that creative energy for
44:47
those fight or flight, you know, life and death situations, we have
44:52
to force that upon ourselves and be intentional and look at what is the vision
44:55
that I want to create? And then and then the too is gonna You're
45:01
gonna go and figure that out as you go. But just you know,
45:06
having that mentality, that that paradigm shift of just knowing that, hey,
45:09
there's never a shortage of money, there's only a shortage of ideas. So
45:14
come up with the ideas, begin with the end in mind, and then
45:17
go out and get the people that's going to help you figure out the help.
45:22
You know. I like that, Charlie. And you know, add
45:24
to that is we don't you know, even everybody that's on this call here,
45:31
we don't know everything, and we're going to make mistakes. Don't don't
45:40
beat yourself up for doing that. And it's trial and error. I mean,
45:45
we we've all been there, and we we've seen the pluses and the
45:51
minuses. We've seen a strong culture, a weak culture, dysfunctional you know,
45:54
you name it, so I just want to you know, add that
46:00
you're going to make mistakes. Just like you said, David, I think
46:04
you said intentional, Be intentional and know your mission statement, know your direction
46:10
that you want to go, and then find a way to get there.
46:15
So thank you again, gentlemen for joining me to on this call, and
46:20
David, thank you for inviting us again. And I look forward to next
46:23
week. Next week' stop definitely we want to. I'm gonna throw up here
46:29
real quick the book so you guys can see that that Curtis has written Winning
46:34
the Culture Game here, so check that out. We'll make sure a link
46:37
is in in the show notes here. But thank you guys. It was
46:44
a pleasure getting to see all of you again. Until the next time,
46:47
have a great evening, Take care, guys. Good