Latest / One Voice Many Conversations / Crushing Strongholds #061 pt 2 Special Guest Jennifer Chase- Rise Addiction Life Coach

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Crushing Strongholds #061 pt 2 Special Guest Jennifer Chase- Rise Addiction Life Coach · One Voice Many Conversations

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Hello everyone.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another great episode of Crushing Strongholds.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is a place where we get to um turn pain into power and trauma into triumph, and a place where we get to just expose the lives of the enemy.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: And today I have an amazing guest.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, this is part two of an episode that we had already recorded.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately we got cut off, but I think that just left room for more.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm really excited that we are back in action with a second episode in our discussion where we were had so much great stuff that we were talking about.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so this lady that I'm bringing back, which you all should already know who she is, because her her our episode already dropped, so um you all should know who who um I'm talking about.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: But um Jennifer Chase is back in the studio today with us, and we are going to still be talking about what Jennifer does, and that is rise up against um addiction.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: And we have talked about that uh in our previous episode.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And today I just want to dive back in and really get to the heart and um get into some deep discussion about the actual addiction, especially with um not only does Jennifer bring the professionalism, but she brings a lot of experience to the table.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, Jennifer, welcome back and thank you for joining me a second time around.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to have you.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: You're so welcome.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad we get to do this again.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, me too.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we had such a good conversation.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna let it go because it it was it was too good to, you know, to delete if that makes sense.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, for sure.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I know in our our our previous conversation, um, our last episode, part one per se, that we did talk about um a lot of our similar experiences that we, you know, we both have encountered and for yourself.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And can you just um give us a little bit of recap about like who you are and and some of the experiences that you went through um, you know, from your mom to yourself to your child as far as facing the addiction?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know when we talk about addiction, sometimes we we only face addiction in one aspect.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's either we're dealing with one person who has addiction or we are addicted, or or we or that addiction gets passed on to one of our children.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um you have encountered all three of those.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that experience is is is very um uh widely appreciated because we want to kind of get down to the emotional and and the complex part of it where we can dive in and dissect it to where um how to overcome the shame.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I know we were diving into that, and I I think that's kind of where we left off is is um feeling the the overwhelmingness of um at least for myself, I remember I remember bringing to the table that I felt like I you know I just wasn't going to get through it or measure up to it because I just it was it was just on me.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was that curse was on me.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you don't mind sharing with our our our guests, um I mean our audience today, I'm sorry, that um experience and just kind of dive back into, you know, where we left off and just recap if you don't mind.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I I absolutely feel okay doing that.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm the daughter of an alcoholic, my dad was an alcoholic, uh, I'm the granddaughter of an alcoholic, my grandfather uh was also an alcoholic.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Both of my grandfathers were alcoholics, and I'm probably the great great granddaughter of an alcoholic.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: I I, you know, this this um system, if you will, in my family runs very deep.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: And most of that was was alcoholism.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: I had a very high functioning uh both of um both my dad and my grandfather were incredibly successful and high functioning alcoholics, and yet it still impacted me significantly, right?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like a lot of the times I hear as a society, we minimize those that get up and go to work every day as not being as bad as alcoholics as the alcoholics that you know are struggling daily drinking in the morning.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: And the truth is, my experience is that they are just as impactful.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, my grandfather, um, again, very successful, was sexually abusing me and my cousins.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, my mom has some experience in that area.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so that was another thing that's pretty common in families that are that are functioning in that level of addiction.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then my dad, who was my guy, he he was my whole world growing up.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: My dad was an alcoholic.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so you never quite knew what you were gonna get when he walked in the door, right?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Was he gonna be my guy or was he gonna be intoxicated and sometimes mean, even abusive?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like you just never knew.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: And and the message that I got very early on, based on those two relationships, was that uh if I could just be something other than who I was, then my dad would be consistent or my grandfather wouldn't be hurting me.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: And additionally, I have a mom who is just not my person, right?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: If I think I probably said this to you earlier, but if if I speak German, my mom speaks English.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like we never spoke the same language.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was with her yesterday and we were talking about it again.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not something that that holds any resentment or anger for me anymore.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: It just is the truth, right?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: We just don't understand one another.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so again, another common denominator growing up as to why I was the problem.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I I, you know, had this childhood experience that I wasn't very lovable.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't enough, I couldn't, I couldn't be who these people needed me to be to be lovable.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like that wasn't who I was authentically, and so it caused a lot of shame, right?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: It caused a lot of uh the critic inside of me being very loud.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, the the traumas that I was experiencing on top of that impacted me greatly.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, you know, I I I probably shared this with you earlier too, but there was nothing, I was not going to be like them.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: There was, I didn't know if I was gonna be, you know, a teacher or a doctor or if I was gonna be a mom or get married, but I could tell you I was not going to be an alcoholic.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like I looked at their inability to break this generational thing as just pure weakness, and that was never going to be me.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: But unfortunately, uh life does as life does.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: And um eventually I was introduced to opiates, and that was the beginning of my own addiction.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I can 100% relate with um looking in the mirror at yourself and going, you know, I'm not gonna be that person, right?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: And going, you know, I'm not gonna follow those footsteps, I'm gonna go my own direction.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's crazy how when we get um almost pulled into it anyway because of that generational curse, it's it's almost like you know, there's an attachment to it.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: And um as much as we say that is not gonna be me, that is not gonna be me, it you know, it it happens, and I can relate with you because again, it w it was me as well.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I didn't get into the opiates, but I did get into the alcohol and what have you.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And even though I was can more controlling it, I was like, this is gonna, I'm gonna control it, it's not gonna control me.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: There was times when it did control me.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like, you know, and then I got ashamed of myself because I was like, oh, I thought I had a handle on this, and now it's got a handle on me.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then I would, you know, give myself a little pep talk and be like, you gotta get your act together.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, people are seeing what you're doing, and you're just you're behaving just like your mother, just like your grandfather, just like everyone else in your life, you know.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're just right in the middle with them.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're you fit right in, right where you said you didn't want to be.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so you gotta you have to shift that gear and and and and start focusing on the problem instead, you know, as well as the solution.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that um a lot of times we we dwell on uh the the shame and the abuse and the victim uh mentality that comes along with the abuse that we endure instead of the solution to to the problem that that it brought on.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people don't become alcoholics or drug addicts or addicts um because of choice normally.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's normally something that that that arises that causes them to go in that direction.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's usually something from their past, a trauma, a pain, um, whether it's abuse or neglect or um it could it could be, you know, even even like even kids in high school, they just go to a party one time and they're addicted.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: It could it it could just happen so easily.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we say to ourselves, this is not gonna happen to me.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And here we are, right?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Or we're on that, we're on that spectrum.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, okay, now we're talking about us.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think what you're talking about is a really important point, which is um substance has never been the problem.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Substance is always the solution to the problem.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: 100% across the board.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: This is true, right?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um that that I become addicted to substance or I drink alcohol.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: I I say this a lot when I do public speaking.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: And um when I went to college, again, with the mindset that I was never going to become an alcoholic, you know, I would, I would, I would drink more binge drinking, but I started to put a connection together that if I drink more, I'll be less anxious.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: If I drink more, this boy will like me.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: If I drink more, I will be funnier, right?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like substance was the solution to something even back then, right?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh a lot of people that have ADD use substance to quiet the mind.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, people that have social anxiety use substance to be able to fit in in social situations.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like, substance is always the solution to something, and we aren't going to be able to stop using it until we start finding new coping skills to deal with the actual problem, right?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like some of us have biology.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: We have we have like biology to dealing with addiction, but when you have biology, nine out of 10 times you also have the trauma, right?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you also have the shame.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like a perfect world, it's a perfect storm of of learning to use substance as a solution when you not only have the biology, but you also have the shame.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for summing that up.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: You you you you sp you spit that up way better than I where I was trying to go with it.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and it makes sense because this is what you do.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're you're you're a rise addiction life coach.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's it's it's awesome that you can um get in and explain exactly, you know, that breakdown that how that works.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think like for myself personally that um with drinking, um, because that was you know my vice.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, I did the cigarettes and I I tried like I tried like marijuana and I did get addicted to a pain medication.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't remember if you remember, it's no longer on the market.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it was called Darvaset.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um after a surgery.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: I got really addicted to pain.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: It was supposed to be like a a not as strong opiate.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it was it was my go-to though.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: I would go in, I'd be like, oh, I'm hurting.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Can I have DAVISET?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like eat directly, not can I have something for tremodol now.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: More like Tremadol now.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: They're kind of the same, yeah.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And tremodol is so, so bad.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so bad.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's so bad for people with dementia because it actually it actually causes dementia.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um people aren't even aware that you know what some of these uh you know drugs do uh in the pharmaceutical world.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: We think, well, as long as a doctor prescribes it, it's probably gonna be good or it's gonna be useful or helpful.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's um not really necessarily the case.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm here to report that is not always the case.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: 100% it's not the case.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I always encourage people, you know, um, to read the fine print when you get an uh uh any prescription, do your research on it because um I did go through a period where I had some medications um after a surgery that I had that um I I literally was like, I felt like I had Tourette syndrome.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: I was shaking and I couldn't hold a coffee cup and I was like, what is wrong with me?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like something's wrong with me.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, this is not normally me.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I became an introvert and I'm a social butterfly.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was like opp everything was opposite of the person that I was.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I started reading the the on the medications that the doctor had me on.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: He had me on like seven different prescriptions because of the the physical issue I was dealing with.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I went to him and I said, I am no longer taking any of these.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, I don't recommend that.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, I don't recommend taking it because now I have all these other symptoms that I have to figure out how to get rid of, and I know they're they're the cause of it.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: Everything that I read is exactly what I'm what I what I'm dealing with.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, And I'd rather have whatever this other symptom is than all of these other symptoms.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I got myself off from all seven of those prescriptions and and totally the doctor did not agree with me, and he was not very happy with me.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, it's really not gonna be your choice, I'm not gonna take it.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: And within a month, I was almost back to normal.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I went back to him and I said, Look how much better I am.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I got off all of that garbage.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we we don't, you know, sometimes when we're relying on our physician and our doctors and whatever, and sometimes medications are necessary.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think they are necessary for certain things, but we just gotta be really, really careful because again, it can lead to that addiction, to where we're just we end up craving it.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: We you know, we can't get away from it and and and what have you.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the same with alcohol, like um now that I I don't drink like like I used to, definitely at all.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have a glass of wine here and there, but I don't like to I you know go out and socialize.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: My life doesn't revolve about around drinking to have social activity in it anymore.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that used to be a real thing for me because of the anxiety.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I I know you can relate with that anxiety.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like you said, you know, trying to, you know, impress someone or um trying to fit in or whatever, if if if drinking was the way to get to it, then that's what got you to it, you know.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: But with your um with your uh coaching and what you do, um as I was reading through your program, I love how you know how you dive in and you start with like the growth and the connection and then and then I love that you emphasize that um to live because a lot of times we're not really living when we're in the addiction.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're just we're just barely getting by.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: We think we're living, but we're really not.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: We don't realize what we're missing out on when we are trapped in that addiction.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So can you touch base on uh on that and like kind of break those down a little bit if you don't mind, and and um let's share with our listeners like um some of the things that you're you do in order to absolutely help people.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: So when I when I got sober, about 18 months after I got sober, I went and worked for an outpatient program that is in my town.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it was the one that I went through, it's the one, it's a faith-based program that I uh was able to reconnect my uh relationship with with God.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And and it was a program that meant a lot to me.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I worked there for about six years and became part of the executive team there.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the last year or so that I was there, I just kept feeling this pull.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that pull for me is my higher power, right?
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: That pull for me is God.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: And what I was hearing was, Jennifer, we didn't walk through this, and and you haven't worn all of these hats to just work with the addict.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: And and not that that's not very important, right?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: But there are a lot of resources for people that are are attempting to get sober themselves, right?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and and resources that are fairly easy to find in a community, right?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I realize that what isn't as readily available is how to help the families navigate this thing, right?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because you and I both know that um the dynamic, the dance floor, I call it, of our family, um can contribute to the longevity or the um characteristics of this dance.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: And what that means when I got sober and I got off this, if you if you consider that your family waltz, I think my family waltz, and I probably at a very early age, probably 10 to 12, I realized that I absolutely despise the dance of waltz, but everybody was doing it right, and so I thought I was the one that was broken because I didn't like to waltz.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, 30 some years later, when I got sober and got off that dance floor, I realized that it's like I cannot waltz.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's only two one way I'm gonna waltz on this dance floor with everybody, and that is high.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I cannot get sober and get back on your dance floor and start doing this dance again with all of these same dynamics and toxicity and stay sober, right?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, that dance floor was part of my problem.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Substance was the solution.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so what I realized is like, okay, if we're gonna, and this became like more of a even when I got married and had kids, we kind of fell into the waltz.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so what I realized once I got sober that it was like waltzing doesn't work for me.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: So if this family of mine, if we want to figure this out, right, if this, because again, I want to say this like not all relationships should make it out of addiction.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: I want to, I want people to hear that, right?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Not all relationships should make it out of addiction.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: But if yours is to or your family is to heal, then what is required is that we all get off of this waltzing dance floor and we learn a new dance that works for everybody, where everybody can be honest and off and authentic, and that we're not rescuing and enabling and we're not toxic, right?
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a lot of work.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: And what I started to learn was that a lot of the families, when this starts, we want to blame the addict for all of it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: We want to blame them if they'll just if they'll just stop drinking and get back on this dance floor, like the way everyone else is doing it, we'll be fine.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that is just not facts.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: It is just not the truth.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so the work that I started to do is really focusing on the loved ones, really focusing on figuring out why or how they have contributed to the longevity of one's addiction.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I want to say this very, very loud.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: We are not responsible for somebody's use.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: We did not control, we did not contribute to it.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: We did not like we did not create this disease for somebody else, right?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: Not as mamas.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: If you're a mama listening to me right now, it is not your fault that your child ultimately has become an addict.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: But let me tell you what we can contribute to.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: We can contribute to the longevity of this thing.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and none of us, none of us want to be contributing to the longevity of this thing.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: We want this thing to be over as quickly as possible.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: We are in hell, right?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but we inadvertently, because of the dance floor, have contributed to the longevity of this.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, my role now is to figure out how do we find our own peace, whether our addicted loved one ever gets sober a day in their life.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it's possible.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: If you just heard me say that and you think this lady is crazy.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: I promise you it is possible to find peace if your loved one ever gets sober or not.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: We can figure out how we have contributed to the longevity of it and stop doing those things, right?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: We can't control an outcome, we can't force somebody to do things, but we can make choices and change things in our lives that can maybe make that happen quicker.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I a lot of what I do, I have modeled over what it felt like to get sober from substance.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: And you maybe you've heard this before, but the opposite of addiction is connection.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: The opposite of addiction is connection.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Substance isn't the problem, substance is the solution to the problem.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of times the problem is isolation and lack of connection and shame and all of those things that pull us into this dark space.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so that is also true for family members.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: If you're a mama listening to me right now and you're like, I don't, I can't go out to lunch with my friends anymore because if I hear how fantastic their college-age child is doing and how they're going to become a doctor or a lawyer, and my child, I'm trying to keep from being homeless and out of jail.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like we have nothing in common anymore, right?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Those scenarios become very, very, very isolating.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Not different from what it feels like from an addict's perspective.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And see, I have both addicts, I have both perspectives, right?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: I have the The addict's perspective because I've walked through this, but I also am a mama of somebody that has walked this.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so I have both of those perspectives and understand that we are way more alike than we are different when we're talking about our addicted loved one and ourselves.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so one of the things that has become so, so important is creating this connection and this um camaraderie, if you will, with like-minded people that have loved ones that suffer with addiction.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it it will be my life work, really.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I've I've kind of passed the baton and said, you know, I know people that are doing and getting in the trenches with the addicts, and they're doing a fantastic job.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I know where to like be a resource for those people, but there are very few resources for the family.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I think I think that like you said, um we don't look at that.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: We don't look at that picture.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: We we we we we we separate ourselves from that exact very thing that needs to take place.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And in order for the healing to come, it has to be a connection, it has to be a connective thing.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because um as much as we need to like only not only forgive ourselves for walking in our own addiction or feeling like we've caused one of our loved ones to walk in addiction.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I've heard people say in the Bible also says it, you know, try not to um um cause someone to stumble.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when we read that scripture, when we're addicts, we think, oh my gosh, we've caused so many people to stumble because of our own, our own demise.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it and so we step back from that connection and we disconnect.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, we isolate.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I find that um in that isolation, when I'm isolated, and I'll just say this truthfully for anyone that's listening, when I used to isolate to an extreme level, um, I didn't isolate alone, I isolated with a bottle, by the way.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry to say it, but that's and maybe it didn't start that way.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it didn't start that way, but it always ends that way.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I would do it privately because I didn't want to hear the chatter.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to hear what people were saying, or or if I made a if I made a fool of myself, you know, I mean, there's a few times that, you know, I thought I had control that when I was losing that control, and I started, you know, making stupid errors and just making a complete idiot of myself.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And because I I uh it was more than um a couple of drinks, it was two or three extra drinks, and I thought I had a handle on it, and it had a handle on me, and it was making me look like an idiot, is what it was doing.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, you know, and then then people would point it out, and then I'd be, you know, you're embarrassed, you're ashamed, um, you want to just go crawl back in your hole, and you can't seem to find any other vice other than the one that you're trying to run from is the one that you're still hanging on to.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I I found that for myself many, many times.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I finally came to the conclusion when I was honest with my oldest daughter, and she's like, Mom, you don't drink that much, and I said, You're not around me that much when it comes to that, because I isolated myself in it, and I said, and I'm I'm talking to you about this because I I want to have accountability to someone, and I know if I and and and my daughter means so much to me.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: My children mean a lot to me, and and I I know that they're not gonna judge me because they loved me no matter what, and they always have.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that um I could actually go and talk to my oldest, especially and my middle daughter, about it.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And they, you know, even even my daughter's like, but mom, you don't drink that much, and I said, Not in front of you.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I mean I and finally when I started saying things, these things, they started realizing, oh yeah, there's a lot of isolation, isolation, isolation.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Where's where's mom?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Where's mom, you know?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And um so I had to come out of my room.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I had to come out of the closet and stay out of there, yeah and not allow myself to go back into that hole to in order to regain um that separation between me and the bottle, basically.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I started connecting with my daughter, and my daughter's like, okay, let's start doing things together.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I need to do things together with you because if not, I'm just gonna go isolate.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, she's like, Mom, I didn't realize this was really a problem.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't, you know, because I was able to maintain a certain level of being a parent.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you show up for work, you get the job done, the house is clean, the laundry's done.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: When you are functioning in it, they it's not necessarily as recognizable as when you're not functioning.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said in the very beginning, you said it perfectly clear.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um we think often, well, as long as I'm functioning, then I'm not that bad.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Until you get that bad, until it goes from one drink to three drinks to five drinks to an entire bottle, and then you're going back to the store for more, or you're trying to get more, you're having it delivered.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: I actually had wine delivered.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know, I didn't know the grocery store could deliver wine on um DoorDash, right?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that was a bad thing to find out, you know?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I could be really discreet.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have to go in public to even get a bottle of wine, I just have it delivered.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, no, I and so I had to get rid of DoorDash because it was a problem.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: And recognizing that it was a problem was the best thing that I, you know, that God helped me do.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so I I I felt with that that being honest with even if to even if it was just one person, you know, you have to be honest with one person.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and God counts, but he doesn't count.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I only say this because of this, God already knows.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: God sees all.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it it's not that we can't go to God, we can, but God is gonna give us that free will um to decide what we want to do with it.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Where if you go to an actual person, especially someone that you're close to, um, and you you confide in them, your your honest to God truth about what you're hiding in the closet, um, it allows you to be more accountable to somebody other than yourself and just running it to God and going like, oh God, God, you already know this, but you know what?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you know God, it's okay, God, you're I'm going to you, so as long as I'm going to you, it's okay.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you need to find, like you said, the connection.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's so important in order for even the growth or um the ability to live, live it out, um, whether you know you get completely free from the addiction or not.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I know some people say, you know, I was addicted for 10 years, I can't even smell or touch or look at a drop of alcohol because I will dive right back in to the deepest pit with it.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's people that I know like myself, where I don't no longer do the the binge drinking and the the you know, just doing it to medicate myself.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: I do it on occasional, like if I have dinner, I'll have a glass of wine.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and I know my limit and I don't go past the limit.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm like, okay, you're allowed two glasses of wine, that's it, you're done, you know?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's it.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: And some people I've talked to that say that there's no way I could do that.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So can you can you explain can you touch base on that at all?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Where like because there are differences of people I know where people absolutely have to restrain 100%.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you probably right, you probably would recommend that, I I would assume in your your profession, but what do you think?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, for me, um like I don't I'm not an alcoholic, but I don't drink.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: And and the reason I don't drink is because I uh so I would I'm I was thinking like well most of us, and I I don't know about you, but most of us don't love the out taste of alcohol.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: We don't the first time we didn't drink alcohol, we were like, oh my god, that is the greatest tasting thing I've ever experienced in my life, right?
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, if I drink alcohol, then it's probably because I'm wanting to feel something different, right?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm wanting, I'm wanting to like take the edge off.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm wanting to just relax.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm wanting, and and for me, for my addict brain, that is a slippery slope.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because as soon as I put substance, a mind-altering substance in my body, then it just opens up a vault.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: If I'm gonna get high on opiates, it's probably after I've had a few drinks, even though I'm not an alcoholic, right?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and I live in a place now where today it's like I don't want anything to change my, I don't know what the word I'm looking for, like my being okay and dealing with life on life's terms, like that doesn't use substance.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you're right.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think there are people that are able to do that.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not that kind of girl, right?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not, I'm the kind of girl that it's like, I'm an addict.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was just having this really funny conversation.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I'll tell you a really funny story real quick.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: I came downstairs one the other night, it was literally two nights ago, and I said to my husband, if I ever forget that I'm an addict, let me just tell you a few stories.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: So uh gotten really into skincare lately, right?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: And bought all of this skincare and trying to start new a retinol, if you if you know what that is.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: And they they say, oh, when you start it, do it like once every once, like twice a week.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: And don't do it day to day, right?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: And get you your skin get used to it.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what do I do?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm an addict, right?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: I go three days back to back to back.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because if twice a week is good, once every day is fantastic.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_02: And my face was on fire.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I walked downstairs and I was like, don't ever question if I'm an addict or not, right?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's the mindset, it's the way that I think.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, if two is good, six is better.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: If once every other day is good, once every day is better, right?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's just the mindset that I have.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so for me, it's it just it cannot be part of my life anymore unless I want to go back to burning it all down, right?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it and it probably wouldn't happen the first night I drank or even the third night that I drank, but I would ever so slightly get closer to burning it all down again, right?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I think for some of us that are like that, we have kind of again that perfect storm that I'm talking about, which is the biology, the trauma, the shame, the, you know, all of the things that, as you know, are going to be life work.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: Shame is a life work job, right?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: I've been sober for nine years coming up next week, and there are still days where I wake up buried by shame.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: It is going to be my life work.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so sometimes when we have all of these sort of colliding uh issues in our life, substance is just something that I just personally cannot play with.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you touched space on that because you recognize it though.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: You you see it for yourself.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I think people don't see it for themselves until you know it it, you know, it's like that deer and headlights moment.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like until they have that epiphany, that exact moment that gets a hold of them, you know, they don't they don't see it.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, not only do they not see it, and oftentimes it it takes a relapse.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: It takes, I get, you know, it takes I'm gonna drink like a gentleman or a gentle lady, right?
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: And and that was my mindset when I started this.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: My mindset when I started this was how do I get my tolerance down?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: How do I get so many drugs out of the house?
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: How do I use like a gentle lady?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: How do I stop embarrassing my family?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was never abstinence was not the goal.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and knock on wood, I have not relapsed, but I have been able to see in myself this addict's behavior, right?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't need to take substance to see that my mindset is this addict behavior.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: But for a lot of people, they get sober the first time and they're like, oh no, I'm just gonna drink one beer at dinner with my friends.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: And they take that one beer and they're now in jail for a DUI.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: And there is no, there is no like calm once substance starts.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so oftentimes it does take repeated attempts to drink like a gentleman or to use like a gentle lady in order to realize that that's just not in the cards.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I I I can totally see what see what you're saying with that.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think like uh when we take the one drink and it leads to the multiple drinks, and sometimes we think, oh, I'm just you know, I'm just gonna drink one.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'll just drink two, or I'll just you know, and then they just keep adding up, you know, and then the next thing you know, you've drank too much, you know.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and then the next day you you go back to the the drawing board and you're just completely ashamed of yourself.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, wait, I I told myself I was not gonna do this.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why did I allow myself to do this?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then and then you just you're just totally just destroying yourself, your self-esteem, who you are, all of it up, you know.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And um I've been down that road a thousand times and I remember asking, I actually went to a physician and I asked the physician, I said, why is it that sometimes I could go months and months and months and months without a drink?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then sometimes I will crave I will just crave it.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I actually like the taste of some alcohol, but not a lot of alcohol.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't like a lot of beers.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: I only specific drinks do I really like, but I will go and get those specific drinks because I know that I like them.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: They taste good to me.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I also when I go to the store and I buy stuff, I want to make sure that I only get a small amount and not a large amount, and and then you know, I don't believe in drinking and driving.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: So either you you get what you're gonna drink or you know, and that's it.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um you don't buy the whole store out.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that way in case you decide you want a little more, it's available to you.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I had to put all you know, I had to go through these these steps of thinking about how am I gonna do these things to do them, you know, because I I I wanted that feeling that I still had control over it.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Even though sometimes I wouldn't have the control.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I would see that I I was like, oh man, I, you know, really I did this again and whatnot.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um you're speaking about something that I think is so important because it's this idea that I want to be able to control my life, right?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I go back to these specific things, which is trauma, shame, right?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: Where we were often many of us were in some part of our lives, whether it's childhood or something that happened uh later in life, which made us feel powerless, right?
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: Where people had power over us and we were had no control over our own life.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so from so from into adulthood, we had this mindset that I'm gonna control all of this.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna control what I drink or don't drink, I'm gonna control who's in my life, I'm gonna control outcomes because that makes me safe, right?
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna control.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: And what I learned early on in my inpatient treatment was that that was the biggest misinformation of all of it, right?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Because the the what was required for me to actually get control, if you will, back in my life is understanding that I had no control, right?
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Understanding that I surrendered this thing to what, you know, to what I call God, um, and that, and that I was completely powerless.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that completely, that understanding of powerlessness is what created some sense that I'm gonna be safe and I'm in control, right?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, people ask me all the time, like which part of this has been the hardest for you, whether it's being the child of an alcoholic or the addict themselves or a mama.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I would tell you with a hundred percent certainty, right now, 10 toes down, that the hardest thing I've ever walked through is being a mama of an addict.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it goes back to this idea that you and I are just talking about, which is control, right?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: I have control today.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Control, I'm doing, I'm doing quotations for any of you that aren't seeing me.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, control to do today in my life what's going to help me stay sober tomorrow, right?
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: The coping skills that I have learned that that enables me to live the life that I have today, a sober life where I'm happy and at peace and have serenity and all those things, right?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: I have control today to do those things that's going to keep me sober tomorrow.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: I have no control over what my son chooses to do today.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: None.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's harder to walk through that with, you know, as mamas, it's like this exposed nerve walking through the world.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's harder for to experience that through him than it is actually in my own life.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think without my faith and without that understanding that I'm not in control of this, I'm not his higher power.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: He has a higher power.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm not sure how we walk through this as mamas, if I'm being honest, right?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think that that is just such an incredibly um difficult, seems like an understatement.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but it's this idea of control, right?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's always this idea about control.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and for those of us that have walked through hard things in our lives, controlling our life is what felt like survival.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, controlling our lives, like controlling what was happening is what felt like survival.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so oftentimes that's what leads us into substance.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I two things I wanted to touch base with that.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: That is, you know, how you you've heard the expression, well, you you know, you're spiraling out of control.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a term that we hear so often that I think that's why we step into the realm of we have to get control.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're like, you're just spiraling out of control.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: You have no control, no control, you know, and that's another realm of failure that that that's thrown at us.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so then we have to we feel like we have to grab that control, and that's the only power that we have.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I I love that you touched space on the higher power boot me meaning God, but um, even when um I'll just give this back to you because I know I I know that it's so hard to watch your child have that addiction.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: But when you surrender your child over to God and you allow him the control, things will shift.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that is a really hard thing to do.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um I've had to do that with with my own son, like just surrendering him over to God.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And because of the decisions and the choices that he's making, because we want to jump in there and go, no, don't do this, do this, don't do that, do this.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna like the outcome, you know.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: We wanna we wanna try to put the horse before the cart, you know, or you're you know, however, or the cart before the horse, I mean, and and to to protect them because that's what we do, we protect and um especially as the mama bears that we are, we're so protective of our children.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: And when we see them messing up and we see them um making mistakes and we want to correct them and we want to teach them and we wanna show them, you know, that you know, we're we're doing all of this um because we love them so much.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to see them go through that pain, but they are not gonna learn unless they go through the walk that they're gonna walk through.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: They have to have their own trials and tribulations.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's why God gives them to us.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it may look different.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: I tell my clients all the time, right?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: I have I have women that sit on my couch and they're like, Jennifer, I cannot deal with him being homeless.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't, I don't know what I will do if it's there's a snowstorm, or I don't know where he is, or I don't know if he's eating.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_02: And and I will say to these women, uh, what if that is exactly where God needs him to be to meet him?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: What if you are again, we're talking about as family members that we contribute to the length of this thing, right?
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: What if that is exactly where God is going to meet him and his life is going to be transformed?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_02: But as long as you kind of get in the way, if you will, from that experience for your loved one, you are creating this longevity in this addiction, right?
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: That is actually your hell.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's keeping you up at night, you've never been more heartbroken, and yet you're contributing to the length of this thing because we have so much fear.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I want to say this, I believe so, and this is so important.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: We cannot have faith and fear at the same time.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: They can coexist moments apart from one another, but they cannot coexist at the same time.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: So when I'm making a decision out of fear, I use that example again.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm paying for a hotel room or they're living in my house, even though it is stealing every bit of peace that I have.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: When we are making decisions out of fear, we are never making them out of faith.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: And faith is where this thing transcends.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: Faith is where you start seeing things changing in your loved one's life or in your life, right?
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so oftentimes those decisions to allow them, and look, you're not you're not making them homeless.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: You're just allowing them to go figure it out on their own.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe that's what they figure out.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe that's the path that they've taken.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: But but if I were to tell you with 100% certainty, no, no, no, no, no, no, Susie, I promise you on you know, June 7th at 8 p.m., God is going to meet your child on the streets of Omaha, Nebraska.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: You would be like, we're getting them homeless in Nebraska.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like you, if you had the certainty, you would do it.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: But the problem is we have this fake.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: And we have to start making decisions out of fear out of faith rather than fear.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is so good.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: I once heard, um, I'm trying to remember the name of the preacher, um, Philip Anthony, I believe, um the 2019 church, I believe it was him.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: I could be wrong, so don't quote me on it.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: But he was, you know, and he's a very powerful preacher.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love his preaching because he's direct and he's he's you know, people say he's harsh, but I sometimes we need it.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: But he what was said was I want something so drastic to happen to you that it will scare the hell out of you.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we don't we are so busy protecting them that they're gonna walk in a in a um we're gonna hinder them from walking out the hell that they gotta get out of, you know, and and literally coming to Christ and not going to hell because they're they're you know what I mean, we're protecting them from that type of person.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: I I think this is so important for people that don't aren't addicts themselves and don't understand how our brains work.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh again, I'm gonna say this because it's again, it's so important.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: Substance is the solution to the problem, not the problem, right?
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: And so the benefits of my solution for I mean, I used for 14 years.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: The benefits were, I just can't even tell you what they were.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh my trauma, my nervous system was artificially regulated.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I could finally like the the emotional benefits of using substance were so big, right?
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: And and if somebody's going to get sober, this is again across the board, the consequences have to start outweighing the benefits.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_02: That pendulum must switch, right?
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: And if you have a child living at your house, they're 45 years old, their kids moved in because you don't want the kids to be, right?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: And they're not really having to work, and you're paying for their school because that is what you're trying to do.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I ask you the question, what consequences are they having right now?
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, none.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: That pendulum is not shifting.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: The benefits are still outweighing the consequences.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: And there is not an addict on this planet that is going to get sober until that pendulum switches and the consequences start outweighing the benefits.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'll share with you the day that happened for me, the day that I found out that I had inadvertently become my son's drug dealer.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that pendulum all of a sudden switched.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: It had to be something that significant to switch that pendulum for me because again, the benefits of using substance, and I'm talking the emotional benefits of using substance, were so great that it took something as significant as my son in order to start that pendulum switching.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of power in that.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and thank you, by the way, for sharing that because I I I know, like you said, one of the hardest things was or has been is watching, you know, your son be addicted.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and again, the shame, you know, the shame on that, you know, feeling, you know, that overwhelming guilt of I did this, I I started this, I I I put him on this tr on this road to destruction.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, you know.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: And but I also like what you said earlier too, is like um to all the mamas out there, it is not your fault.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you you know, you know, children, we none of us came with a handbook, I always say.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, God did not, you know, when we were born, here's the handbook.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is the best way to take care of this individual to for them to turn out the way that God designed us to turn out.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because you know, God just didn't equip us with that.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: And uh as parents raising our kids, we don't know, you know, exactly.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're not there's no perfect um solution to raising a child perfectly.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna happen.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um children have to go through, and just like we have to go through, we have to go through our own demise, we have to go through our own destruction, we have to go through our own trials and tribulations in order to come out on the other side.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and a person told me one time, which I thought was really interesting, but it was very um, it was very um what's the word I'm trying to think?
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: It it it boosted my morale because I didn't think about it like this.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes when we have that victim mindset, um a person said, you know what you've gone through from from birth all the way through your childhood, through all of the abuse, through all of the sexual abuse, you know, the physical abuse, the um the not being wanted by your parents, just a lot of stuff that I went through in my life.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're like what you went through, God allowed you to go through that because he knew you were strong enough to handle it.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: He would not have given you that if he knew if he you know, here and he knew that you could handle it.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's why he allowed you to just like what he did with Job.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: He picked Job because he knew Job would be the righteousness, he would be the one to come out in the end, right where he wanted Job to come out.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember thinking at first, and I thought, well, I don't think that's very fair that God made me, you know, God allowed these things to happen.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, we talked about that, that that anger with, you know, God.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and then I thought, but then I thought, you know what?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad that God chose me to be the one that he thought was strong enough to handle it.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that that boosted my morale, and it made me feel like instead of down on myself, it made me realize what I had overcame.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: And well, and I think it's been that's important too, because I feel similarly, right?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think I've shared like I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't take any of that away if that me not having the life that I had today, right?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and I'm a quote girl.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: I love quotes, and one of them that I think is really important when in this topic is by Maya Angelo, which says we do the very best until we know better.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: And when we know better, we do better, right?
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: And we have to identify that if we feel that way about our own lives, that maybe there's a chance, given that we did the best that we could with what we knew, that that is also an experience that our child, that our children are having, right?
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that they too might be grateful from some of the experiences that they've had in their life because it has made them who they are today.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: I I look at my kids and yes, I have tremendous shame about my son's addiction.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: And and and it again, shame is a life work for me, right?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: Is it is something that I um and not only my son's addiction, I have a tremendous shame about my daughter's childhood and and how that has impacted her mental health and and her into her adulthood.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: But but what I do know is that I look at them now with such tremendous pride because they get up every single day and have the conviction to do better than they did yesterday.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: Both of them, right?
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: They they are always moving in a direction of trying to become better.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: And if I'm proud of that, then I also have to release some of the like I didn't love how they got there, but but maybe that was right part of how this was all supposed to work for them too.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and and like I like I I like it when in Jeremiah 2911 it says, you know, God knows the plans for and the hope for the for our future.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know what the plan is.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the plan is already in place for God.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not we just can't see the the end of the road, you know.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: Our story's been written.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I love that scripture because sometimes when I get, you know, if I get frustrated and I think to myself, you know what, God, I I we have to let it go and we have to give it to God and be like, you know what, God, you already know the future.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: You already have a hope for me, and I have to have that faith, like you talked about earlier.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's the faith that we have to hang on to.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and not have the fear behind it, like you said, because that's vital.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and because that's what happened to Peter.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: Peter, you know, took his eyes off Jesus because he had fear.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: He stepped out of faith and stepped into fear for a moment and he started to sing, and then went right back into faith, you know, put his eyes back on Jesus.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it it happens often to, you know, everyone, we all walk through this.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: And there's not one person that hasn't encountered something in their life along the way.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we we can talk about how how it made us stronger or how to how it um helped design us or or or make us who we are.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think that um, you know, and I like also what you said.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not mad at my mom like I used to be.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love my mom.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: I honor her with every being.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: I miss my mom terribly now that she's gone.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: But um there were times when I blamed my mom for everything in my life, everything that was going wrong in my life, I blamed her instead instead of even taking my own accountability for the things that I was causing to happen for myself.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um and I I realized that, you know, I put a lot of pressure on my mom, and I, you know, I I gave my mom, you know, um, the runaround when I shouldn't have, but she didn't deserve it anymore from the life that was given to her.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, like you said, we don't get better you know unless we keep trying to get better.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then as we get better, we look back on things, and there are there are a few things I would say I would probably redo, but not I wouldn't change a whole lot because of who it has made me to to be, like you said.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I agree with that.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's important that we recognize that the things that God puts us through, um, the outcome is who we are today.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, the struggle sometimes can still be there.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I love that, you know, like in in your in your coaching program and stuff, like when we're starting with the growth, we we we can't grow um unless unless we end up getting watered.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're gonna get planted and then we gotta get watered, you know.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how we become fruitful, that's where we get our growth from.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have to sustain that.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we do that?
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: We do that through the connection.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: We have to get connected to people that are gonna help plant us where we need to be, and they're gonna help water us where we're when we when we start to dry out, they're gonna be like, hey, you need a little bit of water, you know?
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: And instead of going back to the isolation, and and that's it that's in order to, you know, to be able to um stay the course, stay ahead of it, you know.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's easy.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it can, you know, the enemy is quick, and we I I've said this a thousand times over because the enemy has been here for thousands of years and we have not.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: He is well trained, he knows what he's doing, and when we think we haven't figured out, we don't because he's been doing it a lot longer than we can even imagine.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: So even when we think we have a grasp of what the enemy is trying to do, just we're like, oh, I'm on to you, and I mean, he he sneaks in a different door, he sneaks in a different window, and he he tries to twist you in in a in a way to to make you buckle or fold back into something that we don't want.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: And again, taking us back to control where we think we have to have full control.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing that we just reach out to God and and just you know, talk to Jesus and say, you know, Jesus, I just rebuke the enemy from here on out, and I'm just gonna place, you know, whatever you want in my life in your hands, Lord.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna surrender all.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny with, you know, because you it's not funny.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's important actually when you said that earlier, when surrendering all is what it really takes on a spiritual level, on a physical level, on a mental level, on every single level, until you come to a point where you can surrender it all, it's always gonna have an attachment to you if you don't surrender at all.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you brought that up.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I think the important part about surrender, and I and I share this with so many people, like fear, fear is natural, right?
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: We're forever going you, you're you're not gonna be the most spiritual uh connected woman and never feel fear.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like fear isn't going away, right?
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's what I do in the in the midst of it.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and I think that that's where you know, I know I work with my clients when we're talking about addiction, because the only way to peace is through surrender, right?
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: And and the only way, and and look, I I meet people where they're at.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: And and I and I do that because I was met where I was at when I started this journey, right?
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_02: I was incredibly angry at God, uh, felt like unworthy to even be in a in a personal relationship.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so I meet people whether they're there or whether their their faith is you know incredibly uh cemented and strong.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's there's a there's a variation and and I love it.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's beautiful, quite honestly, that human experience with our faith.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: But but at the end of the day, the only way to heal from addiction and a lot of things, whether we're talking about trauma or infidelity or marriages that don't work or whatever it is, is this idea of surrender.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm gonna stop trying to swim upstream.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna stop this.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think of this powerful river.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: We found out today that you and I live in the same place.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm thinking about thinking about this river, right, that we have that's by us that is just tons and tons and tons of water in in the peak year coming down this river.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I was quite literally trying to swim up it.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right, by controlling people and controlling outcomes and controlling substance and controlling my son and controlling my daughter and all the things that I'm trying to control.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_02: And really the peace didn't come until I stopped trying to swim upstream.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I just released and and went along.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_02: And and this is true, whether we're and and it's it's true regardless of what you're trying to heal from, right?
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: Even a death, yeah, even whatever it is.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that journey can be wild.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_02: It can be my my journey to back to my faith was wild.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: Took a lot of work, took a lot of patience, it took a lot of uh people in my life that that sat alongside of me as I did that work.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and I and I respect people's own journeys in that, but it we always have to get to the point.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: Faith or fair, fear is always going to be present in our lives.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_02: We are human beings.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_02: It is the way we are wired.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_02: We are not getting away from it, right?
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_02: Heartbreak, we're never getting away from it.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but what happens in the midst of it is what changes the trajectory of your life.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um very well spoken.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: I I love how you explain that whole um that whole realm of that because it's super important.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um we can't run away from fear, you know.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, God gave us the He He gave us the fear because we had we're supposed to have fear over one thing and that's fear of God.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: And not fear in a a way of torture or wrath of that kind of fear, but you know, in the end result when it comes to salvation.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: We want to make sure that um we understand um what that fear actually is.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then we you know, then we have the natural fear that we have, which is the fight or flight response to certain things.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: And he gave us that because we have to, you know, with our senses and our perception, we have to have that.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, but with all of that being said, I'm super excited that you came on today and joined me again.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I really think it'd be a really fun idea to get together live together and do a live episode.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh and um connect um, because we are local with each other and see kind of how that works out.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that would be awesome.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I am gonna put all of your information in the show notes and um whatnot.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, on one last note in closing up, what piece of information can you share with our listeners today that if if they are needing to reach out, um, what would be the first step that you would tell them to take in this process?
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I think the the very first thing to do is to find your people.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I'm I'm talking about connection, I'm talking about isolation, right?
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're listening to me and you have a loved one that is an addict, whether it's your spouse or whether it's your child or whoever it is, again, you know how incredibly isolating this is.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: So the first step is to start putting around you like-minded people so that you can begin to do this healing.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_02: One of the services that I offer is a weekly uh coaching call where people from all over the country join me on Tuesday evenings.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: And and yes, it's a little bit of coaching, right?
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_02: I spend about 30 minutes coaching, and then the other 30 minutes is really about this connection, about finding my people, finding my like-minded people.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's step number one.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're listening to me today and you don't know where to start, uh if you get on my website at www.riseaddictionlc.com, uh, there's a little part that says let's work together.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: And under that is a part that says contact me.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: And even if if we're not a good fit and you don't want to work with me, uh if you contact me, I will help be a resource for you.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: And if if my services don't fit for you, I'll help you find some that do.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because that is step number one.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh step number two is identifying uh that maybe I've played a part in this and I've got to figure out how I've contributed in order for this dance floor, if you will, to change.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you sharing that.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I I love that even what you said, that even if even if you're not a fit, you're still willing to help.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because and honestly, and in in our profession, what we do, I say the same thing with my podcast, like even if we don't um connect as life coaches, um, I do have a, you know, we we have sources where we can connect people in the right places because we want to see people heal, we want to see people thrive, we want to help people um be able to be the best version of who God created them to be, you know, and walk in that that that newness of life that God wants us to have.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: So again, with that, I I I want to say thank you so much for coming back on.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I've always enjoyed our conversation.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just great.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_00: We could talk all day and and what have you, but I don't want our episode to drop us again.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh so I've been kind of watching the clock on this one because I'm like, no, no, no, we're not gonna do that again.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, but yeah, let's um let's talk um um after we get to the recording, you know, and and and and try to figure out maybe a time we could get together and try to do a live episode that'd be fun and just see how it goes.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you, and I will put all your information in the show notes.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, for all of our listeners, you know, again, if you are dealing with any kind of addiction, um just reach out to Jennifer, um, go to her website, and um just make that connection.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_00: Just pick up the phone, make a connection, and um begin there.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_00: We have to start somewhere.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it just takes us taking the first step, I believe.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, Jennifer, thank you again for all your wisdom and everything that you do.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're helping people with addiction because um it's just it's just out, you know, there's so much of it.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I appreciate everything that you've brought, your experience and and your own personal life um um experiences that you brought to the table, and I appreciate your transparency in that.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I just really enjoy talking with you.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I am going to let you go and we will say goodbye to all of our listeners.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, everyone take care.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: And again, this is Crushing Strongholds.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have any questions or comments about um needing to overcome obstacles or strongholds in your own life, just reach out to crushing strongholds.com and um you can contact me there and or reach out to us at this episode.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: So and don't forget to watch, like, and share.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: So and if you know anybody that's dealing with addiction, please share this episode so they can also take that first step in and finding that connection.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you all.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_00: We appreciate you, we love you, and God bless you guys.