Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 90. Stronger Than Stigma: Mental Health in the Workplace - Ian Adair

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90. Stronger Than Stigma: Mental Health in the Workplace - Ian Adair · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:00
  Intro: Hey, I'm Jon. And I'm Becky. And this is the we are for good podcast. nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:14
  Intro: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising. So welcome to the good community, where nonprofit professionals, philanthropist world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:33
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started.
• 0:36
  Jonathan McCoy: Becky, Becky, what's happenin Argerich? Our guests just did an air Mic drop, and so I left them already.
• 0:45
  Jonathan McCoy: We're talking about one of Becky's favorite topics and mine too. Yep, we got to Destigmatize it, we got to talk about it. And sharing is caring in this space, for sure. So I'm really excited about this conversation. We've just been connected with the most incredible expert with us today, we're talking to Ian Adair. And you probably know his name. He is a TEDx speaker, speaking on all things mental health and leadership. He's a three time nonprofit CEO. But really an influencer in this space, he has a lot of speaking gigs always happening probably slowed down a little bit in 2020. But just really is all about lifting the mental health awareness and really speaking truth in that space. And we're so excited to get to lean into this topic today is something Becky and I feel really passionate about, because I don't know that we've talked a ton about it on the podcast. But it's been one of the focus projects that we get to be part of in a philanthropy side for the last five years. So we're just kind of geeks about it, and believe that it's not talked about enough. So Ian, welcome to the show. So glad that you're here. Thank you for having me.
• 1:45
  Jonathan McCoy: And that is an incredible intro because I really do honestly believe we need to be more excited and more enthusiastic to talk about this subject. And I've actually been I've actually had a podcast stopped before a couple months ago because the interviewer thought I was being too energetic to talk about mental health. So the way you guys guys intro to it, I can't thank you enough, because that's what this topic needs. Thank you, brother. We appreciate it. We're gonna keep that energy up, because surely not enough people are talking about it. And I would love for you just to kind of walk us through I know, he n does all this speaking and thought leadership in this space. But I didn't even mention this. He's Executive Director for gracepoint Foundation, out in Tampa, also. So you live this day and night and everything in between. So I would love for you to just kind of walk us through what got you here today and your journey.
• 2:36
  Ian Adair: Yeah, it's been a really hectic journey. It's one that I would have never thought leaving college when I did that what happens but I feel incredibly blessed to go the places that I've been, I've been in youth development. I've been in education, social work, and now have the opportunity to have led three organizations with with three really different focus and missions has been a lot of fun. I've I've learned a tremendous amount. When you go to one you think of all the things that you did wrong and all the things you did right.
• 3:09
  Ian Adair: And then you take that to the new one. So I feel pretty lucky to have had these opportunities.
• 3:12
  Ian Adair: I grew up in the Midwest, I wasn't born in Oklahoma, but I always tell everybody I consider Oklahoma, my home. I grew up there. I miss it a lot. So I'm excited to definitely be on today with some of my fellow Okies. But I've lived all over the United States. And I've had tremendous amount of opportunity for a long time with Boys and Girls Club of America run in different organizations and a few different states. Then I had an opportunity in the Seattle area not too long ago to run a social justice foundation on equity in education and increasing the number of teachers of color. And so I really enjoyed that opportunity.
• 3:54
  Ian Adair: And and now it's kind of led me to going from one side of the map to the other side of the map here in Florida, where I have just this amazing organization I worked for for the last four years. gracepoint is one of the largest behavioral health organizations in the state of Florida, serving over 30,000 people crisis, mental health services for inpatient, outpatient services, homeless services, targeted case management, over 35 programs.
• 4:21
  Ian Adair: And it's just an amazing experience to run the foundation side of that and get to advocate each and every day, to associations and service groups and corporations about the importance of mental health, mental health awareness in the workplace, and just letting our community know in our greater community know what's available to them, if they were to need us. Well, first and foremost, I just want to thank you for being a voice in the space and I've we've seen your TED talk and it's an outstanding TED talk and I we've had mental health experts on the podcast, but
• 5:00
  Becky Endicott: We haven't had an expert that is literally in the knot like serving nonprofits. And so I think that you have a really unique voice to add to this. I have my own mental health crisis and journey, you know, which I'll share on the podcast someday when we start to storytel. But I think the thing that makes what you're saying, so authentic is I mean, this is not something that you you just go to work. And it's there. I mean, this has been a part of your life and your story. And I wonder if you would share just a little bit about why this is so important to you?
• 5:32
  Ian Adair: Yes, I think I think I've, I've been fortunate in each of the organizations that I've worked with, I've had a really strong connection to the mission. And this is no different. I'm very open and honest about my struggles with mental health. My family struggles with mental health. I battled depression, anxiety for a majority of my life. But But more than that, I've witnessed those that I love and deeply care about whether their family or close friends, battled mental illness, addiction and recovery challenges as well. And like so many people today, I've lost, close friends, to suicide and addiction. So this is something that's that's very near and dear to my heart to have the opportunity to work for a behavioral health organization that takes on so much in this community and have a close connection to it really helps me when I get out. And I speak to groups or wanting to talk to donors, that also have a strong personal connection to what we do. And for when you're raising money, we have that personal connection where you can actually talk about, you know, someone else's journey, someone else's lived experience, it really makes it a little bit easier to ask them to join you on the journey that you're taking in your community. So it's helped me with my fundraising, being able to tell my own story has helped me with my fundraising, ambition and awareness. And so it's been for me, I look at it as something for the longest time, like so many people, I felt stigma about it, and I didn't talk about it.
• 6:55
  Ian Adair: But now I realized it really is more of a superpower in a way.
• 6:59
  Ian Adair: And so all that stuff I felt before when I was when I was younger, you know, you feel shame. When you're going through something, you feel isolated, when you're going through something you feel like you're the only one in the world that's going through it, when you're experiencing it when you and then you find out later, obviously, there's so many other people out there going along through this with you. But um, it's just been something that's been near and dear to my heart.
• 7:22
  Ian Adair: And I wish looking back that I started speaking up sooner because the more I speak about it, and sometimes it's hard being vulnerable on stage of being vulnerable on a podcast or on a TV interview, or whatever.
• 7:38
  Ian Adair: The reaction I get back makes it worth it because somebody out there needs to hear it at that moment in time. And that convinces them to either talk to somebody about what they're going through or go seek help.
• 7:49
  Ian Adair: And that is worth it.
• 7:52
  Jonathan McCoy: 100%, you're 100% right, and no getting a platform of any kind. I think it is such a privilege to be able to be vulnerable and to share stories because it is it is true. It's interesting to us after releasing 60 plus episodes, the feedback that we get is that the episodes that we don't think you're gonna touch are the ones that we get feedback on that really moved somebody. So I think, what great advice to not stop sharing and picking up the mic wherever it's given to you that you just have the opportunity to touch people.
• 8:19
  Jonathan McCoy: So I love this you kind of lifted that idea. Ian, would you kind of dive into just mental health landscape today? I do feel like it's less. And I'm going to go ahead and teach your book. We're gonna talk about your book in a minute. But the old stigma, you know, some of those stigmas are not as strong today as they were even a decade ago. But what's the landscape across the country about mental health, especially as it relates to our work and nonprofit?
• 8:42
  Ian Adair: Yeah, you know, it's it's getting interesting. And I think for anyone that suffered mental health challenge or been a social worker in this space, or worked for an organization to say that mental health is now kind of a trending topic, doesn't really do us any favors.
• 8:56
  Ian Adair: Because that's a double edged sword, like what is that mean?
• 9:00
  Ian Adair: Sometimes it's associated with something negative, that's happened, like a school shooting, or a mass shooting or something along those lines and issues of mental health come up, they don't come up in the context of helping those that needed they don't come up in the context of supporting those at work. So it comes up in a negative context. And I think one of the other reasons, it becomes a trending topic, or it becomes something that's kind of rotated through the new cycle, or on social media is when it has to do with a high profile suicide. So when you hear about over the last six years, Robin Williams and Kate Spade, and Anthony Bourdain, that shouldn't be the only reason we decided to talk about mental illness, addiction and recovery. And we really have to look really take a hard look at who's actually talking about it now, and which groups are actually still silent. And I think more to your question, john, it's who's talking about it. We've seen more people On the public, I talked about it, we've seen more celebrities talk about it, whether they're performing artists or actors and actresses.
• 10:08
  Ian Adair: But you know, I'm glad that they're talking about it, because it helps give, I think others and help others that are experiencing something else gives experts an opportunity to kind of get under there and have that air cover to say this is important when you've talked about it more.
• 10:23
  Ian Adair: But now that they're talking more about their battles with depression and anxiety, and addiction, it doesn't necessarily translate to you and me or people that aren't in the public eye. And that's, and that's the issue. That's, and that's what I think that's where we're at right now, I think the general public, when we hear somebody famous, or an Olympian or an Oscar winner, or a performing artist, when we hear that they're suffering, we tend to give them a little air cover because of how much public scrutiny they're under. And so we understand that they have anxiety, well, they've been under a lot of pressure or paparazzi's hiding around the corner. And that would, you know, make anyone be a little anxious, but we really have to turn it around, and, and get the conversation around mental illness and addiction to become more open and public. For everyday people.
• 11:19
  Becky Endicott: I think one of the things that was the most painful to me working in this fundraising space to raise philanthropy for this mental health and addiction center is, um, you know, I sat across from hundreds of families across the years. And when you think about them, I mean, I could put them in buckets, you know, as well, this one was actually with a corporation, and this one was with a foundation, but to me, they were all families, it was the first time because the topic was so painful. And you felt like you needed to go in with such a gentle, gentle hand. And I think it was so sobering for me to pardon the pun, and to hear people say, you know, I have a son, who is very healthy, and people ask about him all the time. But nobody asked me about my addicted son. And I know that if my son had cancer, they would be over here with their casseroles in their hugs, and they would be constantly texting me. But instead, it's like this void of silence. And we have all of a sudden, done the thing.
• 12:26
  Becky Endicott: That, to me is like the antithesis of our company, which is we have eliminated community at all in the space. And I have to respect that some people don't feel comfortable talking about it. But for those who are wanting to talk about it, it is just a very isolating thing. And I just think that right now, and this is my question for you. I mean, COVID probably gave everyone an anxiety, you know, an anxiety problem, probably delivered depression that we didn't even see coming at the onset of 2020. How would you say COVID has kind of shaped these conversations around mental health, specifically, for nonprofits who are struggling to find residual funding and alternative revenue sources and trying to hold down their jobs?
• 13:14
  Ian Adair: Yeah, COVID is, you know, it depends on what article you see which month, how many jobs, excuse me how many jobs have been lost the nonprofit sector, how many people nonprofit sector have been ripped or laid off or moved from full time to part time, obviously, so many nonprofits survive through their live events, and to completely take that off the fundraising table is detrimental to anybody's budget, including my own, because we were, we had some really good live events that really helped us out and just completely lose those.
• 13:50
  Ian Adair: It was it was tough, it was tough. We were bootstrapped, we run a startup, we only have a couple of employees. So we quickly pivoted to virtual events and trying to write more grants. You know, we still because I think mental health is a little bit more targeted for some donors that have a connection to the mission, I think in terms of going out and still asking individuals and finding people with a connection, that kind of remained where we were at. And so being able to continually do that. I saw certain nonprofits, obviously that provided assistance to families, whether it's, you know, like, like, feeding families, those cap programs, elevated greatly during this time.
• 14:34
  Ian Adair: There's just, it causes you a moment to look at is your current situation and strategy towards meeting your goals. Is that going to work? No matter how long this goes? I think everyone has kind of looked at, okay, what breath what best practices got us to where we at today? And can they continue moving forward? And I think we found out they can and I think what we're learning Probably each and every month is that there's no more best practices. But there are definitely evolving practices and emerging practices, and how can we combine those together to make them work for our organization, so we can continue to have viable programs and be successful. I mean, here I am writing a book, which is 100%.
• 15:15
  Ian Adair: fundraiser, by the way, probably not a solid 2018 strategy. But in 2020, when everyone's home, and everyone's identifying more and more and more, with feelings of depression, anxiety, and isolation, it might not be bad.
• 15:33
  Ian Adair: So I'm writing a book as a fundraiser. And I named it after the event that we normally have, where we have, you know, 400 people, and we make it all about sharing personal stories of lived experience. So people understand the importance of mental health. And I just took instead of three stories normally shared an event. And I found 12 stories, and we've shared those in the book format.
• 15:53
  Ian Adair: And then, you know, that's kind of, so here, we have an old strategy of writing something, and hopefully that raises money, but you merging it with virtual and digital ways to promote it, and to hopefully, the combination of those two work.
• 16:08
  Ian Adair: So I think every nonprofit has to figure out what what their audience was looking for from them, like how they want to receive information, where do they feel comfortable receiving information, just to say we should all switch from live to virtual events, wholesale doesn't work, we have to find out what's best for our donors.
• 16:28
  Ian Adair: And we have to go from go and go there and move forward. And sometimes that's the combination of and sometimes that's a little bit heavier on some other things that we're not used to doing outside of our comfort zone.
• 16:39
  Jonathan McCoy: Love all that discussion. And I think it's so spot on, and that there's just not the one size fits all rubber stamp, make it virtual, and ship it. So could we kind of transition and talk about leadership? I think the conversation of mental health I love you know where you've taken us and just in personal story, how about leading organizations?
• 16:59
  Jonathan McCoy: How do you Shepherd a flock, and be really sensitive to this year that everyone just come out of another, you know, difficult start to the next year? What can What are employees looking to their leaders for? And how can leaders really step in and serve their employees in a different way through, you know, being aware of mental health issues and kind of lifting the topic?
• 17:21
  Ian Adair: I think leadership today is is evolved greatly compared to what it used to be, you know, 510 years ago, I think leaders today and determined I use a lot have to become culture caretakers for their organizations, because that they just have a responsibility of taking care of others. Now. I mean, I fully believe that leadership is the responsibility of taking care of those in your company, and not just the work that they do. So it's completely different than before, I think we're looking at a workforce today that craves more than just salary and title. I think when I was coming up, as I'm 46, now, when I was coming up, I was always told when you're when you're at when you're offered a better title, when you're offered more money, that's when you move. And I think that model has gone away over the last few years. And I think nowadays, when you ask anybody, they're going to tell you that they want more in an organization than just those couple of things. And that's, and that's where we're at today, we have to understand that today's workforce, and 70% of them are Gen Z are millennials. And they want access to new technology and a flexible work schedule, and a positive work culture and professional development and mentoring.
• 18:35
  Ian Adair: And they want their company and also care about their mental health and wellness. You don't hear salary and title, you know, when we speak about what people want today. And it's interesting, it's the leaders have to be prepared for that.
• 18:47
  Ian Adair: And there's a lot of leaders out there running organizations that just have not had the training, to understand what today's workforce wants, and needs. And so it's really going to come down to leadership, training their managers, their supervisors, you have to train people to learn how to, you know, show empathy and concern.
• 19:04
  Ian Adair: And you know, you have to build trust within teams, so you can create loyalty, so you don't lose good people. You know, we're looking at today that things like caring about mental health and wellness, are being used to attract top talent, because people want to go somewhere where they can feel that they have a voice, they want to go somewhere they can feel they can be themselves psychological safety. They want to go somewhere where they can feel they have a connection to the the values that the organization has in the mission of organizations moving forward.
• 19:34
  Ian Adair: And so leadership has evolved.
• 19:34
  Ian Adair: And I know there's a lot of young leaders out there that are looking at older leadership, and we've been hearing for years and nonprofit industry, that we're going to have this exodus of leaders and that so many people are retiring every day, but we still haven't really seen that.
• 19:51
  Ian Adair: I think I went to a conference eight years ago on leadership is going to completely switch out over the next two years, and we're still in the same place we were eight years ago.
• 20:00
  Ian Adair: Go. And so I encourage anybody that's looking to seek a leadership position, you actually have a lot of the attributes, characteristics and values that employees want. So go after those positions, because those are all strengths.
• 20:13
  Ian Adair: And we need more people like that in positions of leadership.
• 20:18
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, friends, we always say community is everything, and we really believe it. This podcast is designed to start conversations provide inspiration and hacks to help you do more for your mission. But your voice is the one that's been missing at the table. That's why we've completely reimagined the we're for good community to serve you even better. We've created an exclusive online network for our listeners, so you can connect with new friends keep the conversations going and growing after every episode. I know Yeah, it's completely free.
• 20:43
  Jonathan McCoy: Think of this network as the after party for every podcast episode and a place to turn when you feel stuck, or need help or feedback from others who have a passion for growing their nonprofit missions too. But friends hear me this only works with you included. So come on over, pull up a chair and join us. We can't wait to connect.
• 21:01
  Jonathan McCoy: It's free. Join us at weird for good, calm slash Hello. see you inside.
• 21:42
  Becky Endicott: I'm still hung up on the fact that you just said 70% of the workforce is Jen's ears and millennials were coming. That is staggering. And the other thing I think that is just almost so ironic and hilarious to me is you are basically saying that the younger generations want to go work for someone that cares about them. And it's like da No, this is the
• 22:08
  Ian Adair: brainer. Like, what why have we been allowed? Now you can say that out loud. And not just to somebody after you interview, you can actually say in an interview, I'm looking for an organization that cares about me. I just I just think that is one of the most intuitive things you learn in kindergarten. And while Why is that not something that is so widely accepted in the world, and I love that that these generations are going to be demanding that because it gives me help hope for the future in terms of our mental health as we go to work with us.
• 22:41
  Ian Adair: You know, I'll say I think it's running parallel to the conversations that we're having that corporations are being held at a higher standard.
• 22:47
  Jonathan McCoy: So you know, it's not just about making money, it's about making an impact. And he and I want to piggyback on something you broke down to is that you're thinking generationally, and I realized that still big buckets, but there's no one size fits all of how to manage now, I mean, you've got a lot of competing type of interest, depending on the people. So I love that you're sensitive to that, that you've got to figure out what's going to register and resonate with your people and play to those strengths as a leader. So yeah, I love that.
• 23:15
  Becky Endicott: So I'm going to transition because I really like this topic of conversation of how we can support each other and care for each other even while we're distance. So I wonder if you could talk about just some tips that we could give people who are experiencing extreme extreme stress at home.
• 23:33
  Becky Endicott: I mean, whether they're the caregiver or their spouse has been laid off their kids are, you know, doing school home schooling, people who have lost loved ones to COVID they've lost their jobs? I mean, how do we check in on these employees, while we're so she'll distancing and kind of make sure that they're okay.
• 23:53
  Ian Adair: You know that it's really tough because a lot of organizations are struggling with this a lot of a lot since we've, since we've transitioned to remote work, it's become harder and harder for managers and team leads to really check in on their people. Because when they were in front of us, in a boardroom, or around the conference table, we could see if somebody wasn't engaged, or if somebody had something visibly wrong with them if they look disheveled, or tired. And now when we're on a zoom call, you know, whether or not someone even decides to turn on their camera, you know, and usually when I'm in a meeting with anyone in our group or on our leaders, senior leadership, we encourage everyone please turn on their cameras, because we want to, we want to see people who want to see how they're doing. And I think you need to start really noticing the engagement level, you know, your employees, I think most managers, most supervisors really know their employees. And when they when they start to see less engagement, even if it's on, you know, video chat, and then they need to be able to then turn around and reach out to that employee and have a separate, either phone call or zoom call and say, you know, I'm not seeing the level of engagement, I'm used to seeing, you know, I want anything going on. They need to start opening up those conversations. And I think that's where we're still falling a little bit behind because even though that person might not be a mental health professional, they need to be able to allow that person to at least Express what's going on with them because sometimes just the acknowledgement of that is huge. Just to say what's going on, I'm here for you Do you need time off just let them know that you're here to accommodate them if they're going through anything, because the one thing that most of us don't hear don't understand, especially when we're trying to climb a tree corporate ladder or when we're trying to improve ourselves, or find a way to rise within our own companies is to hear that it's okay not to be okay. And we all need to feel that. And you can have as many people who have been impacted by COVID, whether they've been sick themselves, whether they've lost somebody, and not feel that something's going on, where you have to address it.
• 25:56
  Ian Adair: And I think that's one of the biggest concerns, it's impacted too many people, I think the statistic now is at least one in every 15, or 10 Americans has been impacted in some way, by COVID. Because it's just, it's just impacted that many people.
• 26:09
  Ian Adair: I think managers have to remember that it's their job now to take care of their people more than just their bottom line. And it's so funny that a lot of companies are like, for the longest time, there was a stigma to remote work, because if you're working from home, you were obviously doing it in your pajamas and playing video games, there's a stigma to flexible work schedule, that was just a way around, you know, the traditional nine to five. And I've talked to a lot of nonprofit leaders. And the joke that I always use that usually gets me in trouble with some people is that I've never read a case study yet where an organization has gone bankrupt because of a flexible work schedule. So if that is one of the top three things people are looking for, in our sector to attract top talent, why would we not make that possible? Why does having to be in your desk, in your desk in your cubicle in an office at nine to five? What significance does that do to increase the amount of sponsorships at an event, they increase the amount of grants that you get you push out in a month? I mean, it does, it does nothing. So we've now noticed through all the research that we are productive at home.
• 27:28
  Ian Adair: And that's been a landmark surprise to the people that didn't really think about it. So but here's the issue that's coming up now. Now, because we know this stigma that used to exist, we're actually working more working from home, I think the latest Fast Company article came out last month, saying we're working an additional three hours more in our remote position. And we did we went to the office. And for nonprofit professionals, I think I think it's even worse, because we constantly have to feel that we have to be available all the time. Every notification, every email, every phone call, we have to be available all the time. So right now in the last 10 months, even though we're remote, or most of us are working remotely, some of us are doing kind of a hybrid, and having a flexible work schedule going in. at certain times, we're working a lot more, we're taking less time off. Our works are not highlighting the importance of self care enough. So we're actually in a worse mental state now than we were prior to COVID.
• 28:35
  Ian Adair: But most of that, that we're doing we're doing upon ourselves. It's not even the only thing COVID related about it is we're at home because it COVID. So we have to really, really understand that especially as managers, as supervisors, as executive directors as team leads, that we need to encourage our people to take care of themselves, we need to actually find resources for them to understand the importance of self care, we need to let them know that they need to take care of anything they need to take the time to do it.
• 29:04
  Ian Adair: Because just building up hours of PTO. There's no there's nothing about that. That wins you any prizes in this world. So you need to use it and take care of yourself. Okay, I'm just here to say preach, because I'm going to share a little story that's that's personal for me. When I took my former job,
• 29:25
  Becky Endicott: which was the one I was at for 10 years in health care, when I was negotiating when the salary and all the benefits I had asked my boss to consider this tells you how much of a freak of a planner I am that I had a six month old baby at the time. And I said when she goes to kindergarten, I want to be able to be at home from three o'clock on because I want to be mom. And I would like that written into my contract.
• 29:55
  Becky Endicott: And so we did. And I did do that. And so my six month old baby is now 10. And I will tell you, it was one of the best and the worst decisions of my life because it was the best because I had such incredible time with her. I got to do mom things. But you're right. I did not feel supported, you know, in that decision because I was the only one that asked for it. And it was not equitable at all to any of my colleagues and I recognize that and felt guilt shame. And here we go with mental health and as a result of the good That I felt I overcompensated by working a lot during between three to five, even though I wasn't getting paid to do it, even though there was no reason for me to do it. And I was completely hurting that which I tried to create for myself, which was space with my child, but I kept going back to email and, and then you start accepting one conference call, and oh, this will just be it'll just be this one time, and then it just starts to escalate. And there are people that do not respect your boundaries that you work with. And so I'm here to say, Gen Z ers, Millennials negotiate that and stand by it.
• 31:14
  Becky Endicott: Because I really believe just the piling on effect of that kind of led me to a lot of the mental health problems I have.
• 31:21
  Becky Endicott: And I don't put that on my company. I put that on me.
• 31:24
  Becky Endicott: Because I did not, I did not create boundaries for myself. So do as I say, not as I do. I guess that's my lesson here.
• 31:31
  Becky Endicott: Well, I think if you did anything, Becky, you paved the way for what people are doing a lot more now. But you also felt the stigma of what you were doing, you were doing the right thing. But when people start looking at you sideways, when you leave early, when people started asking me like, what are you really doing from home?
• 31:50
  Ian Adair: You know, and the next thing you know, you're you're trying to schedule conference calls between nap times or snack times, and you've created more stress for yourself. Yeah, and your negotiation millennials, I think that that is a huge hack that you can have here. Because self care should be a part of what you're fighting for with your job, you're starting to see, I believe you're starting to see now organizations really start to take it seriously. Because if they only take it seriously, when they realize their financial bottom line is at risk. And I think the corporate world, the business world, they're starting to see that when it comes to mental health, mental health, mental illness is the number one reason for loss, productivity, and absenteeism.
• 32:32
  Ian Adair: In business, it's just number one, it's over all chronic pain, asthma, heart disease, all that combined mental illness is number one. And I think they're starting to realize the importance of it, but they're realizing the importance of it on on the spreadsheet, they're not realizing the importance of it with their people. And we're trying to get them to see that if you if you can really connect with your people to health and wellness, and turning these kind of things that you know, you know, people are suffering, you don't have to guess people are suffering out there. You know they are. So what are you going to do about it? You know, I think every organization, every company, Every business has a chance to really be a leader in this. And you're starting to see some take that opportunity. But you're seeing others still shy away a little bit. And they're wondering why they're losing top talent. They're wondering why they're losing, or they're not attracting top talent, and they're losing their own top talent. So that's where it's come down to. And I think we're in a good place right now. Where if organizations don't start putting strategies together to take care of their people, they're going to find out right away how that's going to impact them. Yep, powerful quote right there. Well, even, you know, we always ask our guests about a story that has stirred their heart. And I'm just wondering if that could be threaded with you sharing about your book that you've written,
• 33:52
  Jonathan McCoy: stronger than stigma, we've kind of alluded to it in this conversation, and you've shared that it's made up of a bunch of stories that are really kind of inspiring in the mental health space. So I wonder if you you know, share one of those and tell us a little bit about the book. You know, I the book was difficult, because when, when you're given any opportunity to tell somebody else's story, there's, there's a lot of pressure. And there's a lot of stress with that. Because you want to get it right somebody these people there are to a place what I'd call their path to wellness, to where they feel comfortable and sharing their story, but they haven't done it in a platform like this.
• 34:25
  Jonathan McCoy: So there was a lot of care had to happen over those six months of right of writing the book.
• 34:33
  Jonathan McCoy: You know, I truly, I really do believe that one of the best ways to break down stigma is by listening to or reading stories of lived experience.
• 34:42
  Ian Adair: I mean, stories had the really heavy ability to impact us on a profound level, especially when we feel a strong connection to the storyteller. I feel there's a lot of mental health awareness organizations that rely too much on uncertain specific statistics. You know, I appreciate what they're trying to say. Every time I see this decision, one in five will experience a mental health condition in a given year. You know, if I say that at a conference, and I look on the on the aisle, at the end of whoever's out there in front of me, usually somebody on the end looks towards the four people next to him and wonders which one of those fours they're going to be? They never think it's gonna happen to them. We need to change that narrative because I think we have to start talking about people's stories of lived experience and recovery and all these things. And I think instead of saying one in five is going to is going to have a mental health.
• 35:34
  Ian Adair: condition, five and five of us have mental health. So if we start the conversation that way, I think it keeps us from having an out that something bad might happen to us. One of the best things I like to say, when I have an opportunity, whether it's on, it's been off completely zoom or digital lately, but when I'm in front of an audience, I just ask them who, who here right now has been impacted in some way, either yourself, your family, or your your closest inner circle of friends, five or six close friends, who has been impacted by mental illness, addiction or suicide, in almost 95 to 100% of the people in the room, raise their hand or stand up and I start the conversation that way for a reason. Because I want the start of the conversation for everyone in the room that's been impacted in some way. And we just had 95 to 100% raise their hand or stand up, they know they're in a safe place. And they know they're in a safe place to hear that information.
• 36:30
  Ian Adair: They're No, they're in a safe place, they take a collective sigh of relief and deep breath, to hear what's about to come out of my mouth when we talk about the importance of telling your story and self care, and how you should respond to people who disclose and what you can do better at work. And so all those things kind of leading up to the book, because we did that at so many live events. The book was kind of a continuation of the live events. And the thing that I just found profound was in speaking to all these people, just how much that people who have been through what I think you call profound grief and loss, really been through the worst possible thing that could happen to you the loss of a sibling or a child to suicide, the loss of a child to murder, being sexually abused or assaulted. Just people that have been through just unimaginable things, finding a way through that, so that they can now help others. And that's the point of the book that the title of the book is stronger and stigma. And I know that's catchy, and I like it, because that was the title of the event. But the subtitle, you know, a call to action stories of grief loss. And inspiration is really what the book is about. It's how the stories are separated into thirds, because I want to show not just what someone went through, because that's just their trauma. And that's not what's on display, what's on display is their path to wellness and their call to action, and how they're moving the conversation forward. How they're helping others how they're serving others. And for and for all of them. It's it's very different for many of them, but they do it so well. And I think that's what so many of us who raise our hand when we have that question who's been impacted. You know, it might not have been me that had a mental illness, but I might have, I might have been the caregiver.
• 38:22
  Ian Adair: For a spouse or sibling, it might not have been me who experienced addiction, but my best friend about addiction problems. And so now we have this thing inside us where we don't know how to help. And there's not a lot of books on how to help. If you look at a lot of what's out there today.
• 38:38
  Ian Adair: It's, here's where I was, and I would my life was at rock bottom. And then five chapters later. Here's where I am today.
• 38:45
  Ian Adair: And it's great. Like what happened to the messy middle?
• 38:49
  Ian Adair: What happened to that path that got you to where you're at today? And then don't just say you're doing fine today? What are you doing about it? And I think there's a lot of people looking for those avenues in those ideas and those inspirational stories to say, you know what I identify with this story, I never would have thought this is a great way for me to get involved, and then they go do it. I just think that is such a helpful narrative that you just gave to everyone right there. And it also makes me feel like, you know, we had a great conversation with Mallory at Ericsson at the start of season two. And we talked about empathy and vulnerability, and personal vulnerability being such there's such an absence of that in development and in nonprofits.
• 39:39
  Ian Adair: And we keep saying that, you know, we eliminated that because it allowed us to be objective.
• 39:43
  Ian Adair: But all of a sudden, we're realizing that that is our superpower. And so I guess I think I'm just challenging everyone today that thing that that connects you to who you are, and maybe your maybe it's your mission of why you love it.
• 39:59
  Ian Adair: Don't put that in a drawer, I think you need to think about how does that play into the narrative that you are sharing with people around you whether it's personally whether it's professionally, how are you using it to engage people to the mission, because you might have been helped by this mission. I mean, john and i both talked about, you know, we we were able to go to our health care facilities, fertility clinic and become parents. You know, I want that to be one of the top stories that I would share with a donor the first time I'm meeting them
• 40:34
  Becky Endicott: I don't want them to think that this is just a job for me, it's not, you know, I don't want to tell stories of people that have been impacted by our mission only, especially if I have a story.
• 40:43
  Becky Endicott: And I just think that going in and humanizing ourselves in that way, is not only it would help me heal as an individual, I think it would help you if you're, if you're writing your own elevator speech for something like that. But I also think it connects us like never before, because again, it's not just the one in five, it's like, we're all impacted by this, we're all impacted by COVID.
• 41:08
  Becky Endicott: We're all impacted by mental health. I mean, everybody's impacted or know somebody who has cancer, these, these, these are the hardest things to talk about. Therefore, I think we should be talking about them, because secrets make you sick.
• 41:21
  Becky Endicott: And I just think there's just health and hope and healing and talking. So there's my little soapbox there, you
• 41:32
  Ian Adair: element world has become so much about story like, like you were saying, and when you can connect with a donor potential donor or supporter or volunteer anybody, you know, stories, really, they're I mean, they're the common ground that allow people to communicate, and overcome our differences. And so we can better understand how we can better understand ourselves and each other through story.
• 41:53
  Ian Adair: And when you when you talk about things like mental illness and suicide, and recovery and addiction challenges, you know, stories are powerful tools, and it takes powerful tools to fight the stigma associated with those things. And that's why they're so that's why they're so powerful. I mean, I love data, and I love statistics. But you know, I have personally never had someone go, you know, what I just heard you say, a powerful statistic, I'd like to make a donation, I've just never had that. I know, and I know, I have some friends out there that are huge data people, and they're totally I'm off their Christmas list. But, you know, I'm always gonna say I think data can support, you know, the stories and finding the personal connection to bring people in, but it's always going to come down to that connection. And, and the fact that you said, you know, you were able to utilize, you know, fertility treatment at a place, and you would definitely say that story when you met with a donor. That's exactly what what I use. When I speak to people, you know, it's hard to get up and admit that you needed therapy that you needed help if you had to reach out for help. You know, I tell people all the time that say, Well, I don't know if it therapies for me, or I don't know if counseling is for me, and I say, Well, I got three pieces of advice for you. And you let me know which one of these pieces resonates with you.
• 43:12
  Ian Adair: It's okay to see a therapist, it's okay to see a therapist and it's okay to see it there. And then they're like, Okay, so what do you say?
• 43:21
  Ian Adair: You know, it's, so when I talk to people about what I do, the importance of what I do, why it matters, why it matters, to not only support it financially, but the spread the awareness of it, those stories do help make that possible. And, you know, there are powerful tools that we have utilize,
• 43:39
  Jonathan McCoy: to definitely get rid of something as powerful as stigma because we know it, we know it impacts so much of what we do. So Ian, we asked everybody, but something actionable that you can put in place today, this is kind of your quick hack, what is what's the banner that you waive? One good thing interesting go in everything you do to provide value.
• 44:02
  Ian Adair: A lot of things change for me in the development space, and especially in the leadership space. When I when I said okay, how am I providing value? To name whatever it is?
• 44:13
  Ian Adair: How am I providing value to the donor? How am I providing value to this volunteer? How am I providing value to this community partner? How am I providing value to someone that's, that's disclosing needing help? And I think once you change your mindset on with that, not what they can do for me, but how can I provide value to them, which I can't explain, I can't explain it. And I can't say it enough. Your world changes that that simple, your world changes, things open up for you. Because people see you as somebody who is, you know, it's definitely service above self kind of a mentality. It's servant leadership, whatever you want, whatever you want to put to it. But everything turned around for me opportunities, whether they're leadership, or financial, or whatever, you know, opportunities to be on stage opportunity to get in front of people, when I just simply said, How can I provide value and if I can provide value in some way I'm willing to do it, but if I'm not the right person, I will definitely redirect you to someone that can help you right away. And so I think if you just change that mindset, and you know when you're young if it takes a while to develop it.
• 45:26
  Ian Adair: I'm 46 I'm probably ashamed to say I didn't have that mindset till about 40. But you but what did I want to change?
• 45:34
  Becky Endicott: Really everything changed. You're a good human, and they're really glad you came into this space.
• 45:41
  Becky Endicott: And I'm here to say it even though I think I've said it about four times on the podcast, I have a therapist, I love therapy, of course I do especially talk therapy.
• 45:51
  Becky Endicott: But it's been so helpful to just help me understand myself, understand how I, how people view me and and and what my true north is. So I really want to give another plug for therapy.
• 46:06
  Becky Endicott: And I just think that this conversation is so helpful, and so needed at this time, and on all of our lives. So Ian, how can folks reach out to you?
• 46:14
  Becky Endicott: Where do you Where are you online? And how can people connect with you?
• 46:18
  Ian Adair: The easiest way to get to get hold of me is both my my Twitter account and Instagram are the same Ian M. Adair. The best thing about something like this is going to happen besides meeting, you know, all you good people is somebody who's going to hear it. And somebody is going to reach out to me and I said, Tell me more? or What can I do? Or can you give me some ideas? or How can I use social media to make me feel better not stressed out? or What can I do for self care? and all that stuff? makes it worthwhile?
• 46:52
  Jonathan McCoy: It really, it really does. I really appreciate you're coming at this from a place of service and value. I feel that in our conversation.
• 46:58
  Jonathan McCoy: So thank you so much. And it's been a pleasure, man. It's been a lot of fun.
• 47:02
  Ian Adair: And I sign off every single thing. Every time I talk to somebody we're talking about mental health today isn't just a moment talking about mental health today is a movement and so I can't thank you, Becky and john and Julie for allowing me to speak today and moving that movement forward to help folks so thank you so much. takes a village for here for it. We appreciate you.
• 47:27
  Becky Endicott: Thanks for listening today. We hope he gave you some perspective on how to take care of yourself and your people. Remember, our jobs are about more than just performance. Every week we share our best roundup of content, freebies and notes heard on each episode, and share them with our good community. It's free to join just head over to we're for good. COMM backslash hello to sign up and you'll hear from Us Weekly with tips to do more for your mission. One more thing if you love what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It really does help more people find us and join our good community? Our production heroes the person who never gives me anxiety, Julie Confer Oh, hi.
• 48:01
  Becky Endicott: Our theme song is sunray by remeber spoon