Latest / Constellations and all that... / 77. Finding Where We Belong with Tessa Hayson

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77. Finding Where We Belong with Tessa Hayson · Constellations and all that...

• 0:00
  Tracy: Kia ora, and welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:03
  Tracy: I'm your host, Tracey Cartwright, and together we will be exploring the world of family constellations with facilitators from, and clients from around the world.
• 0:13
  Tracy: Looking at different perspectives and experiences in the work, having a cup of tea, and just chatting with some friends around their experiences in constellations.
• 0:23
  Tracy: We'd love for you to join us.
• 0:25
  Tracy: I hope that you enjoy this series as much as I have loved making it.
• 0:34
  Tracy: Kia ora, everyone, and welcome to Constellations and All That.
• 0:38
  Tracy: Today, I have the pleasure, the utmost pleasure of chatting with my friend and colleague, Tessa Hayson.
• 0:44
  Tracy: Hey, Tessa.
• 0:46
  Tracy: How are
• 0:46
  Tessa: you?
• 0:46
  Tessa: Hey.
• 0:46
  Tessa: Yeah, I'm good, Trace.
• 0:48
  Tessa: Thanks for having me here.
• 0:49
  Tracy: Yeah, you're welcome.
• 0:51
  Tracy: You're welcome.
• 0:52
  Tracy: You know this, 'cause I know that you listen to the podcast, but I invite people to, to share a little bit about themselves.
• 0:58
  Tracy: Maybe where you're located and whatever is there for you.
• 1:01
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 1:02
  Tessa: Yeah, sure.
• 1:03
  Tessa: So I'm located in Papamoa, the east coast of the North Island of New Zealand.
• 1:09
  Tessa: Um, I've lived on the east coast of the North Island my whole life.
• 1:14
  Tessa: I haven't lived anywhere else.
• 1:15
  Tessa: I've sort of… I was born and bred in Ōpōtiki, a small, a small town.
• 1:20
  Tessa: Um, and yeah, it feels like home.
• 1:23
  Tessa: The east coast feels like home, and whenever I travel, I love the east coast of any country as well.
• 1:29
  Tessa: Mm-hmm.
• 1:29
  Tessa: So that's where I'm from.
• 1:31
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 1:32
  Tracy: Now, you're a family constellation facilitator based down that way.
• 1:36
  Tessa: I am, yes.
• 1:38
  Tessa: I've got a holistic health practice here where I've got a few different modalities.
• 1:44
  Tessa: I'm trained in yin yoga, breathwork facilitation, and I also weave a little bit of coaching and Ayurvedic, um, philosophy into what I present to people.
• 1:58
  Tessa: Fantastic.
• 1:58
  Tessa: And- Yeah, so yeah, a bit of coaching… Tracy: and a bit of five elements.
• 2:03
  Tessa: Is that right?
• 2:03
  Tessa: That's what you've been- Yeah.
• 2:04
  Tessa: I'm really intrigued by the traditional Chinese medicine, five elements of fire, water, earth- Wood, and what have I missed?
• 2:17
  Tessa: Metal
• 2:17
  Tracy: Air
• 2:18
  Tessa: Metal.
• 2:19
  Tessa: So you've got your, um, Ayurvedic five elements are slightly different to your Chinese- Okay … five elements.
• 2:25
  Tessa: So air is, um… more sits with the Ayurvedic five elements, sort of as like wood.
• 2:32
  Tessa: Yeah, a little bit
• 2:33
  Tracy: different.
• 2:33
  Tracy: Learn something new every day.
• 2:34
  Tessa: Little bit different, but yeah, I'm very passionate about, about that.
• 2:37
  Tessa: Makes a lot of sense to me.
• 2:39
  Tessa: Mm.
• 2:39
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 2:40
  Tracy: Okay.
• 2:41
  Tracy: Great.
• 2:41
  Tracy: I think the last time I spoke to you, you had… You were heading off for a training, so that's why I r- remembered that.
• 2:48
  Tracy: How did you first meet constellations, or how did constellations find you?
• 2:53
  Tessa: Find me.
• 2:54
  Tessa: So the lovely Jo from Family Balance had not long done her training, and she was very passionate about family constellation and, um, told me about it, introduced me to family constellation, and I thought it sounded intriguing, and she invited me along to do a one-on-one with her.
• 3:16
  Tessa: Um, I really didn't know why I was going other than she had so much passion about it and was eager to share what she'd, what she'd learnt.
• 3:27
  Tessa: Um, and I can remember driving there thinking, "I don't actually know what I'm going for.
• 3:32
  Tessa: Like, I'm pretty cool, you know?
• 3:34
  Tessa: Like, I don't really- Have any family issues.
• 3:39
  Tessa: Um, and on the way there, I got a phone call from my son's school, and I'm like, "Honestly, this pre-teen is doing my head in." Like, and this was something that, um, had come up a lot.
• 3:53
  Tessa: So I was like, "Okay, let's talk about, let's talk about him.
• 3:56
  Tessa: Let's talk about my son and his… what he's getting up to, his antics." Mm. "And why is he behaving in this way, and why is it pressing my buttons so much?" And I got into the session with, with Jo, and she used place mats on the floor to represent people.
• 4:13
  Tessa: It was blind, so I didn't know who, who was being represented.
• 4:18
  Tessa: And I stood on this place mat trace, and I just absolutely burst into tears.
• 4:23
  Tessa: Mm. Like, the emotions came pouring out of me.
• 4:26
  Tessa: And she said, "What is this emotion that you're feeling?" And I said, "It's grief.
• 4:31
  Tessa: Like, there is so much grief." Mm.
• 4:31
  Tessa: "So much grief, it's overwhelming." And she sort of said, "Well, that, that one represents your grandmother.
• 4:42
  Tessa: Does that make sense?" And I said,"Yeah, well, she raised me, um, for a good p- part of my life. She was the closest person to me." And, um, she carried a lot of unspoken grief.
• 4:55
  Tessa: Mm. She had a son who died of childhood leukemia at the age of five.
• 5:01
  Tessa: Was her only son.
• 5:03
  Tessa: Um, she actually lost, she lost two children, but the son in particular, it was that he was going to go on and run the family farm, and there was so much hope attached to, to this- Yeah … son.
• 5:16
  Tessa: And it so seemed so ironic to me at the time that that was actually my biggest fear around my son, is that I was actually gonna lose him.
• 5:26
  Tessa: That he, one of his antics was just going to, like, wipe him off the face of this earth.
• 5:31
  Tessa: And I was never, like, never talked about this child.
• 5:37
  Tessa: It would've been my, would've been, or is my uncle.
• 5:40
  Tessa: His name is, was Philip.
• 5:43
  Tessa: Because there were no photos of him around, we weren't allowed to speak of him.
• 5:46
  Tessa: I remember seeing one photo of, like, the four girls lined up with their younger brother beside them, and saying, um, like, "Who's that?
• 5:57
  Tessa: Who's the boy?
• 5:58
  Tessa: We've got no boys in our family." And, um, an auntie or somebody said to me, "Look, that's our, that's, was our brother, Philip, but he's dead and we don't ever talk about him.
• 6:08
  Tessa: Like, don't ever say his name to Nana'cause she'll just go hysterical and, um, it's just too sad." So we w- we were taught not to speak of, not to speak of Philip, and, um, also not to speak of my grandfather who passed away when I would've only been, like, four months old.
• 6:30
  Tessa: And- That's when I came into the care of my grandmother, was when I was four months old.
• 6:37
  Tessa: Mm-hmm.
• 6:37
  Tessa: Um, and so she sort of, her and I were so, so close.
• 6:42
  Tessa: But what I didn't realize at the time was that she was carrying a lot of the unspoken grief, and that I continued to carry that.
• 6:49
  Tessa: And I remember being a really sad child.
• 6:52
  Tessa: I remember just crying all the time, and I remember people saying, "Why are you crying? Why do you cry all the time?" Mm-hmm.
• 6:59
  Tessa: And it's like, "I don't know. I don't know why, I'm just, like, sad." And it's-
• 7:04
  Tracy: And, and, and a lot of people, a lot of us can remember people or know people like that, right?
• 7:10
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 7:10
  Tracy: Wow.
• 7:11
  Tracy: Sorry, carry on.
• 7:12
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 7:12
  Tessa: So that was, um, uh, that was my first initiation to family constellation, and I just remember thinking, "Wow, that just hits me in the right spot." You know, I could have gone to all sorts of different talk therapy and talked about my son and his behavior and, you know, we never would have been able to pinpoint what the actual fear behind that was and where that actual fear came from.
• 7:41
  Tessa: It wasn't even really mine.
• 7:43
  Tessa: And I… Oh, sorry.
• 7:45
  Tessa: I remember, like, going through the process with Jo of actually handing the grief back to my grandmother, and it was so hard for me to do.
• 7:54
  Tessa: Mm. I remember being like, even though it was a pillow that was representing the grief, I was like, "I just can't.
• 8:01
  Tessa: You know, she can't hold it.
• 8:03
  Tessa: She can't hold it, and I'm the only person that can hold it for her." And there was sort of like a bit of coaxing.
• 8:09
  Tessa: It's, you know, "It's too big for you to carry," and all that.
• 8:12
  Tessa: And I just remember thinking, "This is the hardest thing I've done in my life."
• 8:16
  Tracy: Mm.
• 8:16
  Tessa: Is, like, pass this, this pillow back that was representing the grief that I felt like I was holding out of love and loyalty to my grandmother.
• 8:25
  Tracy: Wow.
• 8:26
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 8:27
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 8:28
  Tessa: So powerful, you know?
• 8:30
  Tracy: Just- Powerful stuff… Tessa: powerful.
• 8:32
  Tracy: And, and how did that… If that's okay to answer this, how did that, um, flow on for you and your son?
• 8:39
  Tessa: I was able to see how unhelpful my fear was in the bond between us,'cause at this stage he'd got to a point where he was too scared to tell me things because it would worry me.
• 8:53
  Tessa: Like, it, I got a phone call from, um, a friend of mine that said, you know, like he'd, his car had broken down and needed to ask them for a ride, and they said, "Why don't you ring your mum?" And he said, "Oh, she just worries about me all the time.
• 9:06
  Tessa: I feel like I can't make her worry about me anymore." So I was able to see how actually detrimental that, that worry I was carrying- Mm was.
• 9:18
  Tessa: I thought I was caring, but it was too much.
• 9:20
  Tessa: It was too much for him.
• 9:22
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 9:22
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 9:23
  Tracy: Wow.
• 9:24
  Tracy: I love how it all- So yeah.
• 9:25
  Tracy: And so from, from there, where did you go with constellations from there?
• 9:29
  Tessa: Well, I remember, I remember walking out of the session going, "What just happened?" Because it was like I'd been hit by an emotional truck.
• 9:36
  Tessa: You know, like, in, in a, in a very releasing way, but in a very powerful way.
• 9:40
  Tessa: I really couldn't understand it, like how a placement had brought up so much emotion in my body.
• 9:47
  Tessa: Even though as a child I cried a lot, I got really good as an, as a adult and a young adult of putting a mask on and not, not showing how, um, how I was feeling.
• 9:58
  Tessa: So I actually came to a point where I was quite unemotional.
• 10:02
  Tessa: Like, I didn't cry a lot at all.
• 10:03
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 10:03
  Tessa: Um, and so going into that constellation and just f- like feeling that, being hit by that wave of grief, um, I walked out maybe a l- quite in shock, to be honest.
• 10:16
  Tessa: Mm. But I remember thinking,"That is so powerful." Like, I only understand some of what's happened.
• 10:22
  Tessa: I can feel it in my body.
• 10:24
  Tessa: I can't put words to it.
• 10:26
  Tessa: And I think from there, that was the only constellation I did, and I was telling other people about it, like how incredible this modality was, but I couldn't explain it.
• 10:40
  Tessa: So when Jo was offering a training, I was like, "I need to know.
• 10:44
  Tessa: I need to know about this modality." It's like, to me it felt… Well, I couldn't explain it, so it felt like magic. And so I was like, "I've gotta go to this training to work out how this works.
• 10:54
  Tessa: Like, how does, how does this work?
• 10:56
  Tessa: What kind of magic is happening here?" Yeah, I went along to the training, not to be a facilitator, but just to try and understand this modality, and yeah.
• 11:09
  Tessa: And it just, every module just had me so curious.
• 11:15
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 11:16
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 11:16
  Tracy: And, and now you are facilitating and-
• 11:18
  Tessa: Now I am facilitating.
• 11:20
  Tessa: So I've actually done the training three times.
• 11:23
  Tessa: So, so, uh, after doing it the first time for myself, and I got a lot of growth out of that.
• 11:28
  Tessa: It was the first time I'd actually seen constellations in a group setting.
• 11:33
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 11:34
  Tessa: Um, was during my training.
• 11:37
  Tessa: And- After doing the training, I would just tell my clients and friends and anyone, you know, how, how incredible this modality was if I felt like it would be helpful for them.
• 11:51
  Tessa: And people that already knew me and trusted me wanted me to constellate them just because they already felt like they had that rapport with me.
• 12:00
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 12:01
  Tessa: Um, so I was referring them on, but they weren't going.
• 12:05
  Tessa: And I was like, "Why haven't you done that?" And they were just like, "I'm just nervous.
• 12:08
  Tessa: I'm just waiting for you to be able to do it.
• 12:10
  Tessa: I'm waiting for you to do it." So I sort of felt a little bit, uh, pushed before I felt ready, which was, which was good.
• 12:18
  Tessa: Which was good.
• 12:18
  Tessa: So yeah, I did the training a second time with the, um, intention of then being able to facilitate.
• 12:26
  Tessa: And it took me a while to get my confidence in that.
• 12:28
  Tessa: Um-
• 12:29
  Tracy: Yeah… Tessa: I wasn't sure that I was wanting So my, my background had been quite surface level.
• 12:39
  Tracy: Like, I made people feel good.
• 12:40
  Tracy: I'd spent years as a makeup artist, so I was in the beauty industry.
• 12:44
  Tracy: I was all about making people feel good by what's happening on the surface.
• 12:49
  Tracy: Let's put a little bright lippy on you and cheer you up.
• 12:52
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 12:52
  Tracy: So, um, delving into human emotions and going that deep was a, was a little bit terrifying to me to begin with.
• 13:00
  Tracy: But I knew the power, power in it.
• 13:03
  Tracy: And, um, yeah, also learnt my own style of- Mm … presenting it where it doesn't- Great… Tessa: have to feel terrifying, and And that's part of that holistic approach of just- Mm … just going to the right depths of, of what feels good for, what feels good for, for my people.
• 13:27
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 13:27
  Tracy: How do you describe the work to people when you're sharing it with your work, with your clients?
• 13:33
  Tessa: So it depends who I'm talking to, quite honestly.
• 13:36
  Tessa: Like, we need to speak the language of our clients- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm … and who we're talking to.
• 13:40
  Tessa: So if I'm talking to someone, as I've got friends that are pharmacists, so they're very science-based.
• 13:45
  Tessa: If I'm talking to someone who, who speaks the science language, I'll say it's a therapeutic approach that was developed in the '80s by a psychologist.
• 13:56
  Tessa: And I might talk about the, um, the cherry blossom research with the, with the mice, um, and talking about epigenetics.
• 14:08
  Tessa: I might swing it that way.
• 14:09
  Tessa: If I'm talking to somebody who's, um, you know, like a mum, a yoga, yoga teacher, I've got friends and clients like that too, I might talk about how it's a heart-centered modality of tapping into- Mm-hmm your family's wisdom.
• 14:26
  Tessa: Um, yeah, so it depends how I talk about it, um, who I'm talking to, I guess.
• 14:31
  Tessa: But I'd definitely say it's a therapeutic approach to help us look at what's happening in our family lineage and how it's affecting us now.
• 14:42
  Tessa: And people that are, um, interested in personal development, perhaps I'll talk it to them through the goals-orientated way of, you know, how you just really want to reach the next level but- Yeah you're getting stuck or you're being held back and perhaps, you know, your success only allows you to go as high as your family's or your lineage allows- Or feels comfortable for you.
• 15:11
  Tessa: So- Yeah … yeah, so it depends who I'm talking to.
• 15:14
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 15:15
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 15:15
  Tracy: I love asking that question, 'cause I get such a variety of answers.
• 15:19
  Tessa: Yeah, and honestly, I don't have an elevator pitch that I say the same thing every time.
• 15:24
  Tessa: It just depends who I'm talking to.
• 15:26
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 15:26
  Tessa: And you can pretty soon tell if somebody just glazes over and, um-
• 15:31
  Tracy: Yeah… Tessa: blah Mouth drops open, their eyes go foggy, and they look somewhere else and going, "What the hell is she talking about?"
• 15:38
  Tessa: But, um, but gen- you know, generally, 'cause I am so passionate about it and it's had such a, a huge impact in my life that it d- that that passion is quite contagious.
• 15:50
  Tracy: Mm.
• 15:51
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 15:51
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 15:52
  Tracy: Absolutely.
• 15:52
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 15:53
  Tracy: I can imagine you sharing… Anything would be contagious the way- … or just soul.
• 15:57
  Tracy: Tell me, we were talking earlier about, um, belonging.
• 16:01
  Tracy: You and I were talking about that just briefly before we started recording.
• 16:04
  Tracy: Do you want to share a little bit about that?
• 16:06
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 16:07
  Tessa: Yeah, I'd love to.
• 16:08
  Tessa: So over the years now I have done many family constellations for myself.
• 16:14
  Tessa: Um, my family of origin was, you know, like such a great ground for me to learn about family constellation.
• 16:23
  Tessa: With family constellation, balance, order, and belonging is such a big part of, of it in that the system needs balance, order, and belonging for it to feel good.
• 16:34
  Tessa: And what I've come to realize is that my family of origin, I really didn't feel like I belonged.
• 16:41
  Tessa: Um, there really was, everything was out of order.
• 16:45
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 16:45
  Tessa: Yeah, so, so there's been many opportunities for me to be able to do, um, some family constellation for myself and my system, my children, um, and now grandchildren as well.
• 16:59
  Tessa: So I guess when I start with belonging, like w- where do we belong, I really didn't know.
• 17:06
  Tessa: My n- my mother, and I'm gonna try and say this with the utmost respect, she had a head injury when she was a teenager.
• 17:15
  Tracy: Mm.
• 17:16
  Tessa: And also from what I know now, she was the, she was the youngest child, and she came after the, after two children were lost.
• 17:25
  Tessa: So from what I understand now, she had a different version of her parents than her siblings had.
• 17:30
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Tessa: And she really didn't, and she will tell you, she really didn't wanna be a mother.
• 17:35
  Tessa: Um, when I was born, she had run away from home, and she was living in a caravan round the back of Waikaremoana, and my grandparents didn't even know that I existed.
• 17:47
  Tessa: So I was sort of a little bit of a- Mm … a secret child.
• 17:51
  Tessa: And even by the time I got my birth certificate, the, the name had been changed on my birth, before my birth certificate came through, um, from my mother's name, which was Keller, to my father's name, which was Clark.
• 18:04
  Tessa: So I'd already had two, two changes there.
• 18:08
  Tessa: Um, and then my grandfather passed away in a, in a farm accident, and so the police actually went and found my mother to bring her back for the funeral to tell her that her father had passed away.
• 18:22
  Tessa: And so that was sort of the first time my grandmother knew about me.
• 18:27
  Tessa: Um, and my mum at this time was really not coping.
• 18:32
  Tessa: She had not been able to remember her own name, and so there were… She wasn't able- Mm … to remember where she'd come from and things like that.
• 18:40
  Tessa: So she was quite lost.
• 18:43
  Tessa: Um, so from that point, my grandmother happily took me on as her, as her child.
• 18:52
  Tessa: Um, and f- from what I feel now from doing constellations, I happily felt like, "I'll take the place of my mother as your daughter.
• 19:03
  Tessa: I'll take the place of your two missing children, and I'll take the place of your husband." Yeah.
• 19:11
  Tessa: Wow.
• 19:11
  Tessa: Your husband.
• 19:11
  Tessa: A big
• 19:12
  Tracy: role to-
• 19:12
  Tessa: And I can, and I can remember, like, feeling like, "I really need to do this for you, Nana." Like, she was, she was obvious- she'd probably never lived alone, and now she had, at 60 years old, um, a baby.
• 19:25
  Tracy: Mm.
• 19:25
  Tessa: And, um, I remember her being so scared of spiders and, and wetters and things like that, and I'd say, "Don't worry, Nana, I've got it." You know?
• 19:33
  Tessa: Like, and I'd go… And I'm not scared of insects at all, so I'd go and, like, scoop them up, and, "Nana, you can go and have a bath now," you know?
• 19:41
  Tessa: Like, I, "I've protected you.
• 19:42
  Tessa: I've got the spider.
• 19:43
  Tessa: You're safe." So I can, I can remember feeling like, "I'm so good'cause I'm able to protect her."
• 19:51
  Tracy: Mm.
• 19:52
  Tessa: So I do remember that.
• 19:54
  Tessa: The, the whole grief thing, I wasn't sure where that, where that had come from.
• 19:58
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 19:59
  Tessa: But I re- I can remember crying a lot, and I can remember her, like, holding me and saying, "Poor Tess," you know, "Poor Tess," and rubbing my back.
• 20:08
  Tessa: So we had this shared bond that was sadness.
• 20:12
  Tessa: Mm. That was real sadness.
• 20:14
  Tessa: So yeah, I felt like, I felt like I, I really did belong, but that's where things got out of order because- Yeah … her raising me, um, I, I did feel like I took the place of p- you know, I wasn't her granddaughter, I was her daughter.
• 20:32
  Tessa: That's how I felt.
• 20:34
  Tracy: Mm.
• 20:34
  Tessa: And then when my mom came back on the scene, I was about six years old, and she… And I went back into her care, I remember being very confused by that.
• 20:47
  Tessa: And- I
• 20:47
  Tracy: can imagine.
• 20:48
  Tessa: Yeah … and, and wanting to be, wanting to be back with nana and, um, feeling like, who's gonna protect nana?
• 20:55
  Tessa: Who's gonna hold her stuff without me there?
• 20:58
  Tessa: And, um, I felt bigger than my mom.
• 21:01
  Tessa: Like, I felt like, this sounds so disrespectful, but that she doesn't know what she's doing as a parent, and I need to, like, be the parent.
• 21:11
  Tessa: She, she went on to, um, have my brother and sister, um, when I was seven, so she had twins, and again, she didn't cope, and she was a single mom, so I can remember thinking, "Right, I've gotta, like, be the mom here," and change the baby's nappies and things like that.
• 21:32
  Tessa: Yeah, so at a, a brief stage, I guess when I was- five she came back into my life.
• 21:40
  Tessa: Um, she met my stepfather who was, his surname was Maxwell, and he legally adopted me.
• 21:49
  Tessa: So that was my third name change.
• 21:51
  Tessa: Um, and, uh- By the
• 21:54
  Tracy: age of what?
• 21:54
  Tracy: How old were you?
• 21:56
  Tessa: Five?
• 21:57
  Tessa: Six.
• 21:58
  Tessa: Wow, okay.
• 21:58
  Tessa: Six, yeah, 'cause the twins were born when I was seven.
• 22:01
  Tessa: Um, yeah, and there was a beautiful, beautiful Maori family from the east coast and that truly took me in.
• 22:08
  Tessa: We were part of Torere Marae, and I have really great memories of, um, hanging out on the Marae and having that beautiful opportunity to immerse in that beautiful culture.
• 22:22
  Tessa: Mm. But I still didn't feel like I belonged.
• 22:24
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 22:25
  Tessa: And my brother and sister were Maori, and I, I was blonde and people would question me at school, you know.
• 22:32
  Tessa: Why, why do you look different to your, to your brother and sister?
• 22:36
  Tessa: Where's your dad?
• 22:36
  Tessa: Who's your dad?
• 22:37
  Tessa: That's not your real dad.
• 22:39
  Tessa: And that was, um, that was unusual for those days.
• 22:42
  Tessa: This is, you know, like the late '70s, early '80s.
• 22:46
  Tessa: It wasn't actually that usual that, um, you wouldn't know who your father was.
• 22:54
  Tessa: So I remember thinking that was weird.
• 22:58
  Tessa: You know, like, where do I belong?
• 23:00
  Tessa: I felt like I belonged with Nana.
• 23:03
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 23:03
  Tessa: But, um, then I was taken from that, from that space.
• 23:08
  Tessa: And yeah, I just never felt like I belonged.
• 23:12
  Tessa: And- Mm … I was actually put on an independent youth benefit when I was about 15, 16 years old.
• 23:20
  Tessa: I private boarded with an auntie at one point.
• 23:23
  Tessa: Didn't really feel like I belonged there.
• 23:25
  Tessa: She's a good auntie, but she, you know, it was obvious that she loved her children and that I was just a boarder.
• 23:34
  Tessa: I got pregnant really young, Trace.
• 23:36
  Tessa: I had my first daughter when I was just turned 18, and suddenly I felt like I belonged.
• 23:43
  Tessa: And yeah, that was- Just beautiful.
• 23:49
  Tessa: I'm feeling quite emotional.
• 23:51
  Tracy: Mm. Yeah.
• 23:53
  Tracy: Just the… Yeah, there's a… Yeah, let's just stay with that for a minute.
• 23:58
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 23:58
  Tracy: That's beautiful.
• 23:59
  Tessa: So having that, that belonging, um, the, the father of my, of my daughter, um, his family were incredible and took me in, and I belonged.
• 24:12
  Tessa: And we got married, so my surname changed again.
• 24:16
  Tracy: And- So that was number four?
• 24:17
  Tessa: Yes.
• 24:18
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 24:19
  Tessa: That's my fourth surname.
• 24:21
  Tessa: Um, and I really… They really f- made me feel like I belonged, and so now I had this family.
• 24:27
  Tessa: I had a daughter, and I had a husband, and I had his parents.
• 24:34
  Tessa: And that was like, "Oh, this is what it feels like." It felt so good, you know?
• 24:39
  Tracy: Mm.
• 24:40
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 24:41
  Tessa: And then unfortunately, he had a head injury as well, like years down the track.
• 24:46
  Tessa: We were married for 13 years, and my husband at the time had a head injury and had problems with addiction after the head injury.
• 24:58
  Tessa: And I got to, um, walk alongside him as he went through drug rehab.
• 25:04
  Tessa: I actually found out that he was pre- that I was pregnant with our second child while he was at drug rehab.
• 25:12
  Tessa: Down in the South Island.
• 25:14
  Tessa: And my grandmother, my beloved grandmother also died during that time.
• 25:19
  Tessa: So within the space of a few, a few months, my husband had a head injury, I got pregnant, um, then with my second child, and I lost my grandmother.
• 25:33
  Tessa: When my husband, or the father of my children, came back from drug rehab, I was kind of like, "Yay, we're gonna get a second chance at this." But unfortunately he relapsed straight away.
• 25:45
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 25:46
  Tessa: Um, and it was absolutely heartbreaking, but I just felt like I couldn't raise a child in those circumstances.
• 25:55
  Tessa: So with the support too of his, of his parents, so my in-laws, I made the decision, very hard decision, to leave that relationship.
• 26:05
  Tessa: And, um, yeah, it's been, that's been 20 years of- Mm that surname.
• 26:11
  Tessa: So that's the surname that I identified with the most.
• 26:16
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 26:16
  Tessa: And then I got remarried a while back, and it was so hard for me to change my name because I identified with, um, with the surname.
• 26:25
  Tessa: That was the place I felt like I belonged, my children's surname.
• 26:29
  Tessa: And so all of a sudden I didn't belong again.
• 26:32
  Tessa: Yeah, it was really, really hard to change my surname.
• 26:35
  Tessa: So that is sort of like a bit of the belonging side of things.
• 26:41
  Tessa: And in all of that, the order, where do I, you know, like, where do I sit?
• 26:46
  Tessa: And how much do I give?
• 26:47
  Tessa: And what can I take?
• 26:49
  Tessa: Mm. And where do I feel safe?
• 26:51
  Tessa: And Yeah
• 26:54
  Tracy: Isn't that amazing, though, when you l- look at this through a constellation lens at how differently you see this in, in ways that, you know, until you look at it through that lens, it's like, well, yeah.
• 27:06
  Tracy: It often will sit very differently in our system, in ourselves, and our psyche.
• 27:11
  Tessa: Yeah, for sure.
• 27:13
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 27:13
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 27:14
  Tessa: For sure.
• 27:15
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 27:15
  Tessa: Constellation certainly has helped me navigate my way through a lot of, a lot of the life's journey.
• 27:22
  Tessa: I wish I had found it sooner, you know?
• 27:25
  Tessa: I wish I had of known then- Mm … what I know now.
• 27:30
  Tessa: Um, but you know, these things find us at the right time, don't they?
• 27:35
  Tracy: They do.
• 27:35
  Tracy: They do.
• 27:36
  Tracy: I mean, yeah.
• 27:37
  Tracy: I've thought about that, too, for me, for the colorful journey that I've had, and I'm like, yeah, but then if, if I'd found it earlier, then I wouldn't have had that experience, as traumatic as that was.
• 27:47
  Tracy: But then now that leads me into this situation of the resources that come from that and what I've learned through that journey and… And yeah, like you say, it comes when the time is right, so.
• 27:59
  Tessa: Mm-hmm.
• 28:00
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 28:02
  Tessa: And I think, too, the absolute empathy and not, non-judgment you can hold space for others- Mm … when you've walked alongside addiction, when you've-
• 28:15
  Tracy: Yeah… Tessa: walked alongside mental health, broken family, when you, you know, have been misplaced or displaced and moved around and been exposed to, to different cultures and different ways of living.
• 28:33
  Tracy: I feel like, yeah, there's a, there's a relatability in, in all of that.
• 28:40
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:42
  Tracy: You shared earlier that you do a lot of different, the, a number of different modalities.
• 28:47
  Tracy: Have you found that you bring some of that into the constellations when you're working with people, yeah?
• 28:53
  Tessa: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:54
  Tessa: And, and going, going both ways.
• 28:58
  Tessa: Like sometimes someone will come to me for a yin yoga, one-on-one yin yoga session, and that will segue us into a family constellation.
• 29:07
  Tessa: Mm. Um, or, or they'll come in for a family constellation and then we'll do a little bit of shiatsu, which is acupressure through meridian lines and things like that.
• 29:19
  Tessa: So an example of that would be, um, somebody who's come in carrying a lot of grief.
• 29:26
  Tessa: And from a traditional Chinese medicine base, grief is connected with the lungs.
• 29:32
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 29:33
  Tessa: And often you'll see… Sometimes you'll see someone with, um, that's carrying a lot of grief have issues with their lungs.
• 29:41
  Tessa: Maybe they've got a history with pneumonia or something like that, asthma.
• 29:46
  Tessa: So we can do a family constellation around the grief itself, and then being able to, to get them up on the, um, treatment bed and just clear the lung meridians so that we're energetically clearing the meridian line, like physically clearing it.
• 30:05
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 30:06
  Tessa: Um, it's a really nice way to, to end the session.
• 30:10
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 30:11
  Tessa: And then, yeah.
• 30:12
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 30:12
  Tessa: And then like I say, someone might come in for a yin, yin yoga session, and they might just mention something that's happening in their body, and I can see, ask the right question to be able to, to be able to see that there is a piece of, um, work to be done there- Yeah around a constellation.
• 30:30
  Tracy: As you were sharing about the, um- The meridian points and, and, and that.
• 30:36
  Tracy: And I was thinking, you know, sometimes people don't connect.
• 30:39
  Tracy: You know, like you might say,"Oh, there's, this is grief." And they're like, "Mm, I have no grief.
• 30:45
  Tracy: Never really experienced major grief." But then it's that, that's where constellations can help us trace it back, right?
• 30:51
  Tracy: It, it might be a few generations ago that it's, and it's flowing down, and it's showing up in your body or your system even if you haven't had that lived experience.
• 31:01
  Tessa: And it's just, I mean, we are mind, body, emotion, spirit.
• 31:04
  Tessa: You know?
• 31:05
  Tessa: We're all, we're all of it.
• 31:07
  Tessa: So it's beautiful to be able to, to end a treatment by helping or, or coming back to that feeling in the body.
• 31:15
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 31:15
  Tessa: Which is the- Yeah … physical feeling, feeling of the, of the pressure points.
• 31:21
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 31:22
  Tessa: Mm.
• 31:22
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 31:23
  Tracy: As you… 'Cause it's funny, 'cause I'm sitting here with this little tool.
• 31:26
  Tracy: I've been sitting here doing this.
• 31:27
  Tracy: I don't know if you noticed.
• 31:28
  Tracy: I've been rubbing- No … on my shoulder and, and doing stuff as you were talking, so that was fascinating that we started in about the meridians and stuff.
• 31:36
  Tracy: When, a- and grief because my, both my parents died of lung issues.
• 31:41
  Tracy: They had a lot of grief that was never expressed, and after, after Mum passed, I ended up having five different, um, episodes of chest infections, lung infections.
• 31:52
  Tracy: And, and so yeah, I did a big piece of work around that as well, and have worked and some body work on it.
• 31:57
  Tracy: And phew, what the ho- what the body remembers and holds on to is amazing.
• 32:03
  Tracy: Mm.
• 32:03
  Tessa: Yeah, isn't it beautiful that you can bring it all in, you know?
• 32:06
  Tessa: The-
• 32:07
  Tracy: Mm… Tessa: the body into, into Yeah.
• 32:12
  Tracy: Yeah, absolutely
• 32:13
  Tessa: As a culture, we're so conditioned just to use our minds.
• 32:17
  Tessa: We're so much more than our minds, you know?
• 32:20
  Tessa: There's so much-
• 32:21
  Tracy: Yeah… Tessa: more to us than our minds Well, our brain, our, our first original brain is in our gut, isn't it?
• 32:27
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 32:27
  Tracy: It starts there, and then, and then our heart, and then our, um, brain, mind.
• 32:32
  Tracy: If someone in y- your area wants to get a hold of you, and I know that you've shared some information that we'll put on social media, but some people like to hear it.
• 32:40
  Tracy: So how would they contact you?
• 32:42
  Tessa: So I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook.
• 32:47
  Tessa: Um, I have a, like, a booking, a booking app that is connected to those things.
• 32:54
  Tessa: They can email me, they can text me, they can-
• 32:57
  Tracy: And w- and if they're looking on Instagram, what would they look up?
• 33:00
  Tessa: Ah, it's Little Yin at Papamoa.
• 33:03
  Tracy: So Little Yin.
• 33:05
  Tessa: Papamoa.
• 33:06
  Tracy: Yeah, Little
• 33:06
  Tessa: Yin Papamoa.
• 33:06
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 33:07
  Tracy: Beautiful.
• 33:08
  Tracy: It's got the most, like, gorgeous little logo as well.
• 33:11
  Tessa: Aw, thank
• 33:12
  Tracy: you.
• 33:12
  Tracy: And, and you work from home in your- Yes … um, you have a space there, and you see one-on-one clients.
• 33:17
  Tracy: And do you offer workshops?
• 33:20
  Tessa: I do offer workshops, and I do one-on-one online as well.
• 33:24
  Tessa: So, um, got a workshop coming up at the end of next month.
• 33:29
  Tessa: I just had a workshop last night.
• 33:31
  Tessa: Um, and another workshop coming up at the end of the month, the workshop will be held in Mount, Mount Maunganui.
• 33:38
  Tracy: Fantastic.
• 33:39
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 33:40
  Tracy: Is there anything else that you'd like to share?
• 33:42
  Tracy: I'm just feeling into the field to see if there's any other questions from me, but maybe there's a ques- maybe there's something that you would like to share yourself.
• 33:50
  Tessa: Um, if we've got time, we could have a little chat.
• 33:54
  Tessa: And I don't know if anybody else has touched on the power of a name, you know, when we're talking about me having five different surnames in my life.
• 34:03
  Tracy: Oh, go for it.
• 34:04
  Tracy: This is great.
• 34:05
  Tessa: And the, and the energy of the, or the power that a name has.
• 34:09
  Tessa: And I, and if we have time to discuss this, I had this really… I've got this beautiful, beautiful friend/client who, um, had come to me, and she's given me full permission to share this, um, experience.
• 34:25
  Tessa: But she came to me a few years ago wanting to do some yin yoga and some breathwork, and she said to me, "I just can't, I can't breathe. Like, I just can't get the breath in." And I could see that, that she was very shallow breathing, so we did some breathing techniques, and she would just revert back to her old way of breathing.
• 34:46
  Tessa: And she's just kinda like, "Well, that's just who I am. I just can't breathe properly." And, um, we've done a few family constellations together, her and I.
• 34:55
  Tessa: We've done yin yoga and all sorts of things.
• 34:57
  Tessa: She's become, you know, very, very close to me.
• 35:01
  Tessa: And she said to me one day, "I really wanna look at my name." And I said, "What do you mean you wanna look at your name?" She said, "I don't feel like I own it."
• 35:11
  Tracy: Mm.
• 35:12
  Tracy: " Tessa: I don't feel like And she's given me permission to say her name.
• 35:16
  Tracy: She said, "This is gonna be part of it, you being able to say it for me." Um, that people, even when I say it, people pronounce it wrong.
• 35:26
  Tracy: Her name's Greta, which is very easy to pronounce.
• 35:29
  Tracy: But she said when she goes to order a coffee, she'll get Brita and, you know, different variations of Greta.
• 35:36
  Tracy: She's like, "I just feel like I'm not really stepping into it fully." And so I said to her, "W- do you know where your name comes from?
• 35:43
  Tracy: Like, did your mum and dad have obviously chosen this name from, from somewhere?
• 35:48
  Tracy: Do you know where it comes from?" And she said, "It actually came from my mother's father's sister." So a great-auntie.
• 35:58
  Tracy: Mm. Her name was Greta.
• 36:01
  Tracy: And she died in infancy of pneumonia.
• 36:05
  Tracy: She couldn't breathe properly.
• 36:06
  Tracy: It was like, well, isn't that interesting?
• 36:09
  Tracy: Let's do a piece of- Mm … let's do a piece of work around, um, around that, getting her to, um, be able to claim her name, and her parents as, as her name, not as her great-auntie who didn't survive- Mm.
• 36:27
  Tessa: Mm … infancy.
• 36:29
  Tessa: So we, we did a little ritual around, you know, seeing what came up with, with the connection to the great-auntie, and separating them as people.
• 36:42
  Tessa: So getting her to name my Great-Auntie Greta.
• 36:46
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 36:46
  Tessa: But I am Greta, and that there's a separateness between us, and handing back the energy that was related to it.
• 36:57
  Tessa: And Greta actually as a child ended up in hospital with pneumonia as well, and she said so growing up, her parents would say, "Oh, she's our miracle baby.
• 37:06
  Tessa: She's the one that survived.
• 37:08
  Tessa: She's the Greta that survived." And she said, so actually what we discovered underneath or during the constellation was that there was actually some guilt attached to that, that she felt bad that she was the Greta that survived and that her great-auntie didn't.
• 37:22
  Tessa: Um, she also said that without realizing it, she felt like a victim.
• 37:27
  Tessa: She felt like to get love, she would get love by being sick.
• 37:32
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 37:33
  Tessa: As, and, um, so she said it was, like, really eye-opening for her to be able to, um, yeah, just to be able to feel into that and to leave the energy with that energy, with respect to great- Yeah … to Great-Auntie Greta and be able to move on with her life fully and be able to breathe fully.
• 37:55
  Tracy: Love that.
• 37:56
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 37:56
  Tessa: So that was a really cool, a really cool one.
• 37:59
  Tessa: And, um, I was just speaking to her this morning.
• 38:02
  Tessa: I'm like, "Are you sure you don't want me to change your name for the, you know, I wanna do this podcast and I love what we did with you claiming your name." And we got her to say out loud, you know, her name.
• 38:14
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 38:14
  Tessa: Out, out loud with conviction and really own it.
• 38:17
  Tessa: Um, and she's like, "No, this is perfect.
• 38:17
  Tessa: I want, I want you to acknowledge that my Great-Auntie Greta, and that I'm, I'm separate, and I'm living my own life. I'm living it without guilt."
• 38:30
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 38:31
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 38:32
  Tracy: Well, thank you, Greta.
• 38:33
  Tessa: Yes.
• 38:34
  Tracy: Thank you so much for, for
• 38:36
  Tessa: allowing- My beautiful Greta
• 38:36
  Tracy: yeah, inviting this conversation into the field.
• 38:40
  Tracy: Mm. 'Cause, you know, there'll be people out there that are listening and they think- They r- recognize something in that for themselves, you know?
• 38:47
  Tracy: Like, um, yeah, there are systems where they're named after the older brother that might have died, or there was someone that I experienced that I had who was a female, but she was named after a brother that had passed away, and, um, that created a lot of confusion for her.
• 39:07
  Tracy: Mm. Yeah.
• 39:08
  Tessa: I-
• 39:08
  Tracy: So yeah, it's, it's, uh, so important, isn't it, to have that definition and, um… And I think a- also because in the family system there are different reasons why someone names them after that person, person that's passed away, maybe tragically or, you know, in difficult sur- circumstances.
• 39:28
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 39:28
  Tracy: And that has another… That has its energy that brings into the child as well, so.
• 39:32
  Tessa: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:33
  Tracy: And into the family system.
• 39:35
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 39:36
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 39:36
  Tessa: So I would encourage anyone to, you know, ask their parents if they can where their name came from.
• 39:43
  Tessa: And- Yeah … what does their name mean, because, you know, our parents give us life, and then usually they give us a name.
• 39:51
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 39:52
  Tessa: And often that name sticks with us our whole lives, and so it's, it- it's really cool to do, like, a little research on your own name.
• 40:01
  Tessa: Why did you call me that?
• 40:02
  Tessa: Where did it come from?
• 40:03
  Tessa: What's the meaning?
• 40:04
  Tessa: Is it Hebrew?
• 40:05
  Tessa: Like-
• 40:06
  Tracy: Yeah… Tessa: all of that- Yeah … is, Yeah.
• 40:11
  Tracy: And if you might be gonna… My mum was gonna call me Sarah right up until she went to write my name on the birth certificate.
• 40:18
  Tessa: And then she's like, "No, you're definitely a Tracey."
• 40:21
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 40:21
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 40:22
  Tracy: And Sarah was her grandmother's name.
• 40:24
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 40:24
  Tracy: And then she just decided at that moment, no, I'm Tracey, so.
• 40:29
  Tracy: I get called all sorts of things.
• 40:31
  Tracy: Tracey's one of them.
• 40:32
  Tracy: I love that though.
• 40:33
  Tracy: I love that you brought that into the conversation.
• 40:35
  Tracy: Mm. Yeah, that's powerful.
• 40:36
  Tracy: And, and on the thread of you having five different surnames.
• 40:42
  Tessa: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:43
  Tessa: I think that's why I've be- become quite interested and curious around where names come from and what, what energy they hold.
• 40:51
  Tessa: I think it's part of our belonging, hey.
• 40:54
  Tracy: It is.
• 40:55
  Tracy: It is.
• 40:56
  Tracy: And then, you know, finding the balance in that.
• 40:59
  Tessa: Mm. Yeah.
• 41:01
  Tessa: And the order in that.
• 41:02
  Tracy: Old Bob.
• 41:04
  Tessa: Old Bob.
• 41:05
  Tessa: Old Bob.
• 41:05
  Tessa: Do you know the funny thing about that too is that when I was a teenager, um, a lot of my friends made names, like nicknames for themselves, and I was like, "I'm gonna be Bob."
• 41:16
  Tracy: There you go.
• 41:17
  Tessa: Well, you- Not even knowing where that came from, and then all these years later I did my family constellation training, and you talked about Bob, and I'm like, wow, isn't that crazy.
• 41:25
  Tessa: I wanted to have balance, order, and belonging.
• 41:28
  Tessa: I wanted to name myself that, and I didn't even know why.
• 41:31
  Tessa: I think I was just- Yeah … being, like, a little bit smart, like they had all these fancy, fancy nicknames, and I was like, "I'll be Bob." Yeah.
• 41:39
  Tessa: But, yeah.
• 41:39
  Tracy: Just Bob.
• 41:40
  Tracy: Just- Just Bob.
• 41:41
  Tracy: It's easy.
• 41:42
  Tessa: But yeah, balance, order, and belonging.
• 41:44
  Tessa: How powerful.
• 41:45
  Tessa: Oh.
• 41:46
  Tessa: Hey.
• 41:46
  Tracy: Mm. Yeah.
• 41:47
  Tracy: Um, what was I gonna ask?
• 41:49
  Tracy: Nope, that one's gone out of my head.
• 41:52
  Tracy: Don't you love it?
• 41:52
  Tracy: I can't even catch the end of that one.
• 41:55
  Tracy: Do your children, have they ever done any constellating?
• 41:59
  Tessa: No.
• 42:00
  Tessa: I have them
• 42:01
  Tracy: Do they know what you do?
• 42:03
  Tessa: They think it's like a form of fam- family therapy.
• 42:06
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 42:06
  Tessa: That's what, that's what they say.
• 42:08
  Tessa: Um, they… My son's very curious about it.
• 42:13
  Tessa: He's asked, like, "What, what did you do, mom?" And, you know, I've talked to him about, "I made a, I made a little altar with you and your sister and your dad and me." And 'cause we've not really, in, in his lifetime, not been together as a family unit, 'cause we separated when he was just first born.
• 42:32
  Tracy: Mm-hmm.
• 42:33
  Tessa: Um, and so he's al- he's always very curious about, about that.
• 42:37
  Tessa: Um, my daughter is, is just pretty, pretty staunch, and she's got herself sorted out and she's, um, yeah, just got a different way of looking, looking at the world.
• 42:51
  Tessa: Maybe she's sort of not so sensitive and not so interested.
• 42:56
  Tessa: She's… She works in HR and she's like, she's pretty black and white about how the world should be and, and rules that she, she has, which I love about her.
• 43:06
  Tessa: Like, both my children are so completely different.
• 43:09
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 43:09
  Tessa: Which I love.
• 43:10
  Tessa: There's also something that I saw recently about how in the Western world we, we look at that our children are born and we're here to teach them and, and train them and get them to do things, and the old schematic way of looking at things was that our children come to us to teach us things.
• 43:28
  Tessa: So-
• 43:29
  Tracy: Oh… Tessa: I've got these- That's so true.
• 43:30
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 43:31
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 43:31
  Tessa: These so very different children that, oh my gosh, have taught me so much.
• 43:35
  Tessa: And, you know, the experience I had, um, with my son and, yeah, and his father has shaped me into who I am today, has led me to this passion and keen interest in family constellation and a whole different way of viewing the world.
• 43:53
  Tracy: Mm. Beautiful.
• 43:55
  Tracy: Mm. What a blessing.
• 43:56
  Tessa: What a blessing, eh?
• 43:58
  Tracy: Yeah.
• 44:00
  Tessa: What a blessing.
• 44:00
  Tessa: What a blessing.
• 44:02
  Tracy: Well, thank you so much, Tess.
• 44:03
  Tracy: It's been really lovely to have you join me here for this conversation.
• 44:07
  Tessa: Thanks, Trace.
• 44:09
  Tracy: And yeah, sharing your beautiful essence.
• 44:12
  Tracy: And, um, so if anyone is a- around the Bay of Plenty and you're looking for a g- a family constellation facilitator, please reach out to Tess at Little Yin- Yoga?
• 44:24
  Tessa: No, just little yin papamoa
• 44:26
  Tracy: Little yin papamoa.
• 44:28
  Tracy: All right.
• 44:28
  Tessa: Yeah.
• 44:29
  Tracy: Thank you.
• 44:30
  Tracy: Thank you so much.
• 44:31
  Tessa: Thanks, Trace.
• 44:32
  Tracy: Thank you for listening.
• 44:34
  Tracy: Head over to Instagram and tell me what's resonated for you with this episode.
• 44:39
  Tracy: You'll find me at tracey.cartwright, that's Tracey with no E,.cartwright.
• 44:45
  Tracy: And, or head over to my website traceycartwright.co.nz, and receive a free audio with a gift from your ancestors.
• 44:55
  Tracy: So until next time, be kind to yourself and have fun doing it.