Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Adams Eberwein (Adams Wilson) | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #67 |

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Adams Eberwein (Adams Wilson) | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #67 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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  It's another episode of the Christian we've podcast, but
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  before we get into it, are you subscribed?
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  If not please make sure to subscribe.
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  Like and share the video and spread the word because the
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  Christian read podcast is here to stay.
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  I love doing this and I love all of you that support me.
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  So thank you. And yeah, let's get into this
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  podcast, shall we? Boom.
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  Hello. And welcome to another episode
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  of the Christian we've podcast today's It is a professional
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  Miss musician, so that again, professional musician.
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  All the way from Philadelphia. His name is Adam ever wine, but
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  he goes by the professional name.
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  Adams Wilson. That's the name of his band.
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  Welcome to the show. How you doing?
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  I'm doing great. Thanks for having me.
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  And I should say it's, yeah, it's atoms with an S so it's a
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  little weird. Yeah.
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  So I was looking into this, and I was like, why is he done that?
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  And then I realized there is actually a professional
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  musician. I haven't heard of this.
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  This but a professional musician called Adam Wilson and it was
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  funny because when I was looking up your stuff, I remember seeing
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  like a couple of shows that you'd played right and there was
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  like a someone had put like, you know, the classic chalkboard
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  thing where they've written the names and someone's written Adam
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  Wilson. And I knew I just knew that it
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  was someone like, oh, they must have just had a spelling mistake
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  in their name, I'll fix that. Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's on
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  album covers, it's on t-shirts or whatever.
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  And, you know, it's in my email and so when I was whenever I was
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  going back and forth like, you know, Club promoters or managers
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  whatever is amazing, how often people would correct me on that
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  and it's like, it's, you know, I blame my mom.
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  She thought that it would be hilarious to name me.
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  She thought we were related to John Adams, the American
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  president. Oh, I understood the so your
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  legal name is actually Adams ever wine and then that's why
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  you've chosen to Okay. Hey, yes.
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  I always thought people would be, you know, my last name is
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  everyone and first of all, you pronounced it correctly which is
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  unheard of almost everybody gets it incorrect.
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  They say like ever wiener, you know, and so that's the name.
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  I thought would be tricky. So Wilson is my middle name, one
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  of two, middle names and so I was like, that sounds like a
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  last name I'm going to do that to stop confusing people and
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  instead the atoms tricks people trips people up more often than
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  the everyone did. It makes no sense to me.
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  I think it's kind of cool though.
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  See unique, you know, it's something different.
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  I mean I got the same thing. Sorry gone, please.
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  I know it's at the I've only met one other one.
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  I haven't met him. I found a person on the internet
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  named Adams. I've only seen that one name in
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  my entire time on this Earth. Yeah.
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  So it's definitely unique. I haven't run into anybody in
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  person. It's got it.
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  I remember a feeling of Sorrow when I started realizing around
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  the world that people started popping up with the name
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  Christian Reeve because for so long it was this unique name.
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  And by having the same thing with my surname where everyone
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  assumes? Oh, you mean Christopher Reeves?
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  It's Reeves and it's like, no, I know my surname.
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  Thank you very much that it is what it is.
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  Yeah, but yeah, since we're on the topic of your band, I find
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  this very interesting because you've worked with a lot of
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  different musicians with every single record that you've
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  produced and As I understand it's like a different iteration.
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  So like with every change within the band that reflects in the
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  sound so like for two or three years, you'll be recording with
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  a particular group of people and then you move on to the next
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  thing. And I wondered, how does this
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  actually impact the songwriting and gigging process for you?
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  Like what the major challenges with that?
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  I mean, for me it's you know, keeping a band set so.
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  Well, let me back up like I Out as like just Church musician,
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  right? That's all I wanted to do I've
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  since become a, you know, non-believer but this was we're
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  going back like, you know, 20 years and you know, so I knew a
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  bunch of I was in a church that they played a lot of.
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  They had a lot of musicians who were like actual gigging,
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  musicians who played it, you know, clubs and bars and all
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  that kind of stuff. I'm trusting on Sunday, they
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  would come in. And, you know, they were these
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  amazing musicians who were saying very, very basic music in
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  the church, and they were always like, you know, jazzing it up
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  and making it sound amazing and I was inspired by that, you
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  know, and I kind of was just like, I want to learn from these
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  guys or whatever. So, I started writing my own
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  music and then I was like playing solo acoustic gigs at,
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  like, coffee houses and things like that.
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  And then I made an album and, you know, I got one or two
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  people to help out, but I asked them if they wanted to be and
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  they weren't available. So it just like then.
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  To make another album and you know like a real studio and I
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  needed like actual musicians because I was like I'm paying
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  all this money I'm not going to walk in there with my lack of
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  musical style. I wanted people who could really
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  like bring up the you know the level of skill.
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  So I hired people and I asked so I was like always asking for
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  like two or three years I was going around.
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  Literally everyone I meet and like you play music.
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  If you want to be in my band like I just felt like a Salesman
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  trying to push people into my van.
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  And it like I realized like that became a full-time job almost of
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  like trying to keep the band staff.
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  So it was like part of it is really, really challenging
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  because you're trying to find people that you work with.
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  Well that brings something to the music.
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  But, you know, you're also trying to find people that are
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  reliable and that takes up so much of your time because so
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  many musicians are not reliable. That's like part of musician.
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  DNA is not showing up on time or not doing the Work that does she
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  drives me nuts, man. Like seriously you're giving me
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  PTSD right now. Yeah.
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  And so it's like I mean I know it's always that push typical.
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  That's like the downside, right? Is like trying to keep the band
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  staffed is tricky but the upside is you know musicians love
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  playing with new toys and when a new musician comes into the
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  bandits a like it's a new shot to your system of like yeah like
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  totally different. It's like getting a new
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  instrument. It's you're totally confused
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  with new Creative Energy because now this person is like oh you
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  wanted to do that with you know this song you could do this that
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  or the other thing. They're bringing new ideas and
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  they're bringing new like just new energy.
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  I guess it's way to put it and it's so like there's always that
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  like honeymoon period where like a new batch of songs comes out
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  of nowhere because a new person was brought into the fold so
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  there's definitely there's upsides to going through bunch
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  of Staff. You see the thing is with with
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  your boundless. You this unique is that like
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  Every single lineup change it's like completely different people
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  because like I would understand if you would have like you know
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  a band and then people drop in and drop out throughout the
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  years but with yours, okay? Like for instance if we go to
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  that 2015 2016 you have like a set ban there and then we move
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  that sort of two, three years down the line and it's
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  completely different people. And the only sort of fixed
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  constant is yourself, and I find this really interesting in the
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  sense that, like, obviously you're leading this whole thing,
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  like you said, you know, behind the scenes, Is your kind of like
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  trying to like spend all the time trying to just get this
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  together, so I get that. And I've been there myself as
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  well, so I know how that is, but I guess the thing that's really
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  that's really interesting to me is like, what's the dynamic,
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  like, with writing the songs? Like, since you know that like
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  you're never going to leave the band?
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  Like it's your badge. Your baby.
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  How do you approach that? Like Because if you know, like,
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  hey there's probably a limit on this, maybe they'll be in the
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  band a year, maybe there'll be a couple of years, there's a fixed
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  time on this. So do you kind of like sit down,
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  you write the songs and then you invite everyone into chip in or
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  do you sit down and jam with these people and really include
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  them in at what, what does that process actually look?
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  Like, every time, you know, it's different every time.
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  So for the moment, the album that I'm about to release, you
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  know, The process was I had I guess I should back up again.
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  It's always hard to know where to start because the band's been
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  going for so long, right. But like for the longest stint,
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  I had was with a guy that I met off of Craigslist.
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  My name is Matt Riley. Yeah, and we, you know, we had a
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  live gigging band for I guess, like, 10 year, eight or nine
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  years almost 10:00. And, you know, he and I were the
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  only constant sin like, other people would come in and, but
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  then I had a, you know, son in 2015 and a couple of other life
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  circumstances, kind of prevented me from playing live anymore.
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  I just did and I wasn't enjoying it.
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  Like I do I realized yeah the the challenge of like getting
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  into clubs and like promoting it and all that stuff stopped being
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  enjoyable for me and I realized you know when you have a baby
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  Like it's a very it's sharpens, your awareness of like what
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  needs to stay in your life and What needs to go.
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  So I just like I had to make some cuts to my schedule and I
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  was like well the band is consuming like 75% of my time so
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  you know, I'm just going to start.
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  I'm going to stop playing live and I'm just going to record
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  right? And so, you know, the band I
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  ended that and, you know, every they went on the band that I was
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  with at that time went on to become another band and they've
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  since broken up because, you know, bands are unreliable and
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  that's just the way things work. But then then I called up a
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  couple of people who had been in the band and other forms at one
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  point and I was like, let's just get together and jam and like,
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  no pressure. We're going to play it live.
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  We're not going to worry about what it sounds like.
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  We're just going to play music and so we Probably like a year
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  and a half just playing in my body Ryan's basement.
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  And, you know, so half of the songs came from that and half of
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  the songs came from like after covid hit.
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  You know. I was writing stuff by myself
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  because we couldn't Jam anymore so it's like this most recent
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  album we're calling it parasite and host.
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  It's just it's like half of jams and half of you know me sitting
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  in my studio writing by myself. So what do you find as a better
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  process in terms of writing songs?
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  Because like, I've changed my songwriting process over the
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  years, it used to be that, you know, I'd have the lyrics.
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  Ready, I'd sit down and I try to kind of jam with people and like
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  make the lyrics work around it, right?
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  And that jamming element is still true of some solo song
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  right now, so it's a little bit different.
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  But I've noticed my process has changed now.
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  Where I'll pretty much we'll just sit down and I'll be like,
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  I feel like writing a song. Start jamming and like sort of
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  seeing how it makes me feel and then I start, right?
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  And I basically do both things at the same time, like the
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  lyrics and the music, which I don't think that's the most
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  effective way to do it. There's better ways to do it,
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  but I don't know. That's just my style right now.
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  But like what do you think is the best at all?
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  What do you prefer doing and when you when your songwriting
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  I, I think the biggest thing for me is, I love having the crutch
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  of having someone else there to bounce, the ideas offer.
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  Because I'm really, you know, I'm really insecure about my
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  songwriting. Okay?
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  Um, and I love when there's someone there, who has a better
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  grasp on Theory or, you know, the mechanics to say, like, is
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  this good, you know, I'm out. Like, I'll play something and
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  I'll be like, I mean, that's terrible, right, right?
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  Like, you know, you're kind of just like, okay, yeah.
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  You know, seeking approval from that second party.
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  I think that that brings better stuff out of me and like it's,
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  it's probably not healthy mentally or emotionally to do a
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  compelling. But it's like it's so much more
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  productive because like it gives me that confidence when someone
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  else says icono hey what are you doing there?
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  That's good. Like to be able to build a song
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  faster and then you know to when you have two minds working on it
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  to are more you know this People go away sometimes and I'll come
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  back with like oh I figured out that bridge and it sounds twice
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  as good as what I would have thought of, you know, it's like,
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  you know, putting new ingredients into the recipe that
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  you know I tend to get very what's the word I'm looking for?
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  Like I fall into a routine where I just do the same thing over
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  and over again. I think like having announced a
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  second party, a second person, gives you an extra element.
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  That helps you change it up a little bit, but I'll say, I'll
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  say this. Like I don't have a A specific
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  formula for something. I've been doing it for over 20
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  years and, you know, some songs and if you talk to any creative
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  person, I think you'll hear something similar.
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  Like there's been times when I was driving home from band
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  practice and I wrote three songs on the way.
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  Yeah. Right.
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  They just, it's coming like the muses there and it just like in
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  your brain almost as if it's being downloaded from The Ether.
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  Right? I'm not like a spiritual person,
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  but it feels like weird and Supernatural, where?
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  Yep, songs up here. And then there's other times
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  where I spend like, Weeks in front of the computer with a
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  guitar and like, you know, got a notepad or whatever and just
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  it's shit, and nothing is coming and yes, like everything is
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  frustrating and you're like, there's only, you know, there's
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  only seven basic chords and I'm just like, I've used up my
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  palette gone and and it's like a slog, but even stuff still comes
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  out of that. Like you still sometimes can
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  manage to get a song and it's like it took you six months to
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  craft but you know, the process. Didn't feel as good, but the
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  result is still just as effective.
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  And sometimes those songs do, as well, as the ones that became
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  supernaturally, I completely agree with you.
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  That's exactly how I see it as well.
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  I remember, when I was in my very first band, my one not very
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  first. It was like my first proper band
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  where we went gigging, blah blah blah.
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  You know, I must have been about I think I was 17 18 when the
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  band started when it ended, I was 21.
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  So we went from About three years and we wrote together.
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  So I would always write the lyrics and I had a heavy hand in
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  the riffs, but like I kind of let the rest of the band.
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  Like same as you, you know, like come together Jam.
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  I've always felt that that was the best way to write music and
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  I still to this day. I, you know, I would is a bit
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  different obviously, doing solo stuff, but I still think nothing
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  quite beats that feeling when you're like, yeah, we got
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  something here, what's this? Yeah.
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  You know that just that feeling is amazing but But yeah, I had a
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  similar thing. But what happened to me was that
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  band ended, and then I had a couple of bands after that and
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  then I started doing solo stuff. But my solo stuff, when I first
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  started was trash, it was terrible.
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  It did kind of, I mean, in my opinion, I don't know, like,
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  there's still some stuff there, there's like a 2013 EP that I
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  did. That's like the last time I did
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  something in a studio properly. And yeah, I think it was.
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  Okay, but it felt like what you said it.
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  Very forced. It didn't really feel like you
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  know I was inspired and something came.
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  It was like, okay this was the best I could do at that time and
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  I was still, I think a very novice songwriter at that point,
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  you know, I was learning to write music on my own which is
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  very tough. But then years later, I had
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  something like what you explain this kind of Supernatural,
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  feeling, and it actually started with my poetry because that's
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  something I just always done on the side where it's sort of
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  sprung out of song. It will go.
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  Well, this isn't quite a song. Maybe This is a poem and then
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  that's yeah. But I remember that I stopped
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  trying. If I make sense like I stopped
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  trying to sit down and go, I'm going to do this and I just
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  thought I'm just going to wait until an idea comes to me and
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  ever since I made that decision personally I feel like I've made
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  the best stuff I've ever made and I use that same approach
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  with everything but music, poetry YouTube content, whatever
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  the case may be, I just no idea comes and I'm like okay let's
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  make it into something and I got to say I always feel like
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  especially with music that's the best way to write because it
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  will come from like a feeling or like a to am thought and you're
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  like a shit and you got to get the pad and all oh no it's or
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  whatever you know and I yeah maybe it's supernatural maybe
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  it's it really does feel that way because it feels like Almost
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  in a way. I like I feel like I was
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  creating a bizarre like, yeah. People say, oh you're amazing.
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  You're this, you're that. I don't even feel that way.
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  I feel like we're more kind of like Messengers.
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  Like the messages come from like some other reality.
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  And we're just voicing it and kind of crazy way, I think.
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  Like, you, you hit on something that I think, you know, for a
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  while is writing like a music blog about, you know, about
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  songwriting and Four minutes, and I can't think.
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  And I think if I had to like when I was working on that, it
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  kind of forced me to like, think about the process where I think
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  before, I just was in the process, and I wasn't really
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  stopping to think about, like, what is the Alchemy here.
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  But, like, when I was writing the blog, it occurred to me that
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  like a couple of times people have come to me and said, like,
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  you know, you're prolific like what's your secret to like, keep
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  writing more stuff. And my thing is just, I think
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  it's input, right? Like, if you are, Just a
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  songwriter, that's all you do at some point.
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  I think the well starts to dry up a little bit and you get
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  desperate and you make bad decisions.
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  But if you're a poet and you're a songwriter and you're, you
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  know, a visual artist, your photographer, filmmaker
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  whatever, you're an Avid Reader, you know, your consumer of
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  things. Like it's a lot the well stays
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  wet a lot longer because you It's always like new things
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  coming in, you become hungry for more things and therefore you
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  create more things because like, there's more stuff going around
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  in the blender. I'm like, there's like five
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  different metaphors going on right now.
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  But, you know, it's just like when people are people say to me
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  like, you know, I'm out of ideas or whatever.
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  Like I'm having a writer's block or I'm dry spell.
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  It's like you need to go try something new like throw new
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  wrench into it like go on a trip to a place that you would not
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  normally Go like don't go to Disney World which I love, you
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  know, I love Disney World, whatever.
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  Look everyone, but like, go, you know, go camping in the desert
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  or something like that. Go, you know, go on a date that
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  you wouldn't normally go on, read a book that's totally out
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  of your experience. You know, like one of the most,
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  like, prolific moments, I had was after I read Ender's Game by
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  Orson Stark was in Scott Card, like your, this is probably 12
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  or 13 years ago. You know, it's such a random
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  book. Like, I think it's like, even
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  young adult or young adult, like it's not even meant for
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  grown-ups, but I just like somebody recommended it to me,
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  and I just was, like, completely inspired by that.
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  And like all of my songs Just a whole bunch of new songs, just
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  started flowing out where, you know, the it had started to slow
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  down before that and I just thought like this one book had
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  such an impact on me, right? Like so many songs came out of
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  just reading During the Sig reading experience.
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  And it's, I just think that's the thing is like, if you are
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  doing you're just one person. You know, if you're just a
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  filmmaker and that's all you do is make films.
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  At some point, you're going to get sale, right?
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  And you're going to be very boring to talk to you, but if
• 20:22
  you are, something was a hand and a bunch of different stuff,
• 20:25
  you know, it's a lot easier to stay energized.
• 20:28
  I couldn't agree more with you. Yeah.
• 20:30
  It's one of the things I've decided to do with my life is to
• 20:33
  try as many different things as possible.
• 20:36
  If an opportunity comes, I welcome it because it gives you
• 20:39
  more to talk about, you know. And if nothing else human humans
• 20:43
  with storytellers, that's what music is.
• 20:45
  It's a story, it's a it. So I thought this is how I felt
• 20:48
  about this thing, or, or this is a dream I had.
• 20:51
  Or this is my interpretation of this, or whatever it comes from
• 20:54
  many different places. I mean, fucking out, I wrote a
• 20:56
  song the other day that started as like a feeling about like an
• 21:02
  ex-girlfriend. And then it turned into like,
• 21:06
  Like a western song where I turned it into the list, like
• 21:10
  Legend of this woman who like is a badass Gunslinger like Janome
• 21:15
  in those that shit Discover, it grows it grows, but yeah, I
• 21:18
  totally agree with you. This reminds me of two random
• 21:23
  things but I'll draw them all together so firstly.
• 21:27
  Yeah, I think you just need to kind of go out there and do as
• 21:30
  much as you can. Like you said go out in the
• 21:32
  desert. Go on a trip.
• 21:33
  Go here. Go here.
• 21:34
  Try a different line of work. This thing that you feel
• 21:37
  uncomfortable about like especially doing things to bring
• 21:41
  yourself out of the comfort zone.
• 21:42
  I think is very important because yeah, naturally anyone
• 21:45
  that gets writer's block is just doing the same thing.
• 21:48
  Like you can't keep doing the same thing and expect different
• 21:52
  results. That's literally in sunny.
• 21:54
  And it reminds again, like I said, It reminds me of two
• 21:57
  things. It reminds me of this.
• 22:01
  What I was listening to like, I Charles Bukowski audio recording
• 22:04
  one time and he was talking about how like when people get
• 22:08
  famous writers, get famous, you know, when they first begin
• 22:11
  their really interesting because their life hasn't been changed
• 22:15
  by writing their, they're still, you know, tirelessly right in
• 22:19
  trying to get big. And then once they get big, you
• 22:22
  know, here they are hanging out and like cocktail parties and
• 22:25
  hanging around with other literary these people and, you
• 22:28
  know, but they're young. They're like, 21:22, they
• 22:30
  haven't. If they haven't done anything,
• 22:32
  what if they got to write about like, oh yes, you know I'm at
• 22:36
  these cocktail parties and this is where I'm at and it's like
• 22:39
  that's not relatable, if nothing else like writing, poetry music
• 22:44
  needs to be relatable because that's how people can relate to
• 22:48
  it. Like doesn't have to necessarily
• 22:50
  be about the lyrics but the lyrics I would say are a really
• 22:54
  big thing that draw you in and make you more relatable and
• 23:01
  Pushing that even further. It also reminds me of M and M
• 23:04
  the musician. Like when he first started
• 23:07
  writing music, it was basically him just telling his life story
• 23:11
  like, hey, you know, I grew up in Detroit, and life fucking
• 23:13
  sucks. And this is what it's like, you
• 23:16
  know, that and that's why people, you know, really related
• 23:19
  to him. Because he was just being real,
• 23:20
  is just being honest and saying it, how it was and people were
• 23:23
  like, yeah, I feel that way. Then he became famous and
• 23:28
  successful and OK, this is a bit controversial.
• 23:30
  Sugar, I'm going to say, I don't think his music is good anymore,
• 23:35
  because I feel like he just doesn't really have much to say
• 23:38
  and that's not a knock on him. I still think he's a great
• 23:41
  songwriter, but if you were to compare a song, He's written,
• 23:44
  Now versus a song, he wrote, you know the early 2000s there just
• 23:48
  isn't any comparison and I feel like it's because he isn't doing
• 23:52
  much like you say, he is just a musician and that's what it, you
• 23:57
  know, he he needs, maybe he needs to go off on a track.
• 24:00
  To the desert. I don't know.
• 24:01
  But I mean, if you look at bands like the Beatles, they did that
• 24:06
  they went into like India and various other places, I mean,
• 24:10
  okay. They were experiment
• 24:12
  experimenting with lot of drugs, so that does change things.
• 24:15
  But the point is, they went to learn a bunch of stuff went out
• 24:19
  into the world, learn different ways of life that new
• 24:21
  instruments, you know, and that shaped all of that music moving
• 24:25
  forward and expanded their career even more because they
• 24:29
  couldn't have just kept doing You know, their 50s era music
• 24:33
  because people would have been bored eventually, you know, and
• 24:35
  yes, they could have got bored of The Beatles.
• 24:38
  It was are amazing. But if they'd accept doing the
• 24:40
  same thing forever, you know, I mean and that's why I find it
• 24:43
  funny when when people are like oh why do why did musicians have
• 24:47
  to change? I like their old stuff and it's
• 24:49
  like if you just keep doing the same thing people will get
• 24:51
  bored. Yeah.
• 24:52
  End of it. Yeah, you begin to eat your own
• 24:55
  tail. You know.
• 24:56
  I agree with you 100%. It's like you know when you it's
• 25:00
  sort of like Like the, the blessing and the curse of being
• 25:03
  a non famous musician, right? Is like, you know, I've been not
• 25:08
  going away at this thing since the early 2000s and like, it's
• 25:13
  always been a part-time gig and, you know, there's been like
• 25:15
  there's been good moments where, you know, I've got invited to
• 25:20
  play my original music at people's weddings and like, you
• 25:24
  know, got a song in Netflix movie or, you know, got on a
• 25:29
  couple of different shows. Rupert.
• 25:31
  It's like you know I've always had that fantasy of like if this
• 25:35
  could be my full-time gig that would be amazing.
• 25:39
  But knowing in the back of my mind that as soon as that
• 25:43
  happens like then you're just bound to write, you know, about
• 25:48
  that experience because that's all you do, right?
• 25:50
  Like it's only a matter of time before you start writing songs
• 25:53
  about the road and you know it's just I feel like There's a
• 25:59
  blessing in not having it be with the struggle continues and
• 26:04
  then the struggle produces better songs because because the
• 26:07
  struggle continues, if this drug was no longer there, then you
• 26:10
  just sound like, I don't know, Weezer writing Beverly Hills
• 26:14
  right? We're just like talking about
• 26:16
  how awesome you are all the time which no complaints.
• 26:18
  Love that song. But you know, there's only so
• 26:21
  much you can get out of that. So yeah, I'm sort of grateful, I
• 26:25
  guess as a songwriter that I've never hit it big.
• 26:29
  Because, you know, it keeps the music coming.
• 26:32
  It's funny. You say that as well because for
• 26:34
  me, I used to be obsessed with becoming famous and successful.
• 26:37
  So, yeah. That's all I want.
• 26:39
  Mara and now, I mean, sure, that'd be great, but to be
• 26:43
  honest, I just want to be able to do this as my job.
• 26:46
  I don't even, I don't even care really about becoming really,
• 26:49
  really well known anymore. It's for me if I can just do
• 26:53
  this. That's I'm happy with that
• 26:55
  because it makes me happy and this beats doing it.
• 26:59
  Nine to five job, which is what I hate.
• 27:02
  So, yeah, I agree with you on that and all the way I said this
• 27:07
  in funny enough, in a recent podcast with another guest,
• 27:10
  like, I think it's better if you become famous later in life,
• 27:14
  like, you need to live a life in order to have something to talk
• 27:17
  about, you know what I mean. Like it's the struggles that
• 27:20
  people really relate to, like, like, you say, nothing who can
• 27:25
  relate to being rich and living successfully in Beverly Hills.
• 27:29
  Right. It's like this.
• 27:33
  Yeah. Sorry you know, like Bruce
• 27:36
  Springsteen is a great example, right?
• 27:37
  Dudes, been a millionaire for 99% of his career yet?
• 27:41
  He still writing about the struggles of the working class
• 27:43
  and people eat it up and I'm like, I don't, where is that
• 27:47
  coming from? You know, and he, I think he
• 27:50
  even said recently, that like all of his songs are based on
• 27:53
  mostly his dad's life because his life has been one of
• 27:56
  privilege. But I also think I'm going
• 27:59
  through this, you know, last year or two, I've been thinking
• 28:02
  about this a lot which is that, you know, Fame, is it really
• 28:08
  that great? Like I haven't had it so I'm not
• 28:11
  sure but I went through a small period where, you know I when I
• 28:17
  was playing in church it was a large church, right?
• 28:21
  It's about 1,000 people in and out over time not at.
• 28:25
  They weren't all in the building at the same time but it was like
• 28:27
  a thousand. People in the community and, you
• 28:31
  know, I'm up on stage and people began to form like attachments
• 28:36
  with me, even though I've never met them.
• 28:38
  And so, like I'd come up, I'd be walking through, you know, the
• 28:41
  church and someone will come up to me like, hey, I'm like, you
• 28:45
  know, the other day and they would just go on about their
• 28:47
  life story, you know, whatever it was, that was important to
• 28:51
  them. And I was like, I'm sorry, I'm
• 28:52
  Adams, how are you? Like, I've never met this person
• 28:55
  and they but they built this connection with me.
• 28:58
  Then their head Is very real and like, you know, that's like a
• 29:01
  such a small example of, like you think about, you know, being
• 29:06
  famous. People are doing that to you on
• 29:08
  a much larger scale, right? They think they know about you
• 29:12
  because you're writing these really personal songs.
• 29:14
  Yeah, you know, confessional things and talking about the
• 29:18
  dark moments of your life and so people, you know, relate to that
• 29:21
  and they form this subconscious connection with you where they
• 29:25
  feel like they know you and you know, that's weird.
• 29:30
  It's weird to interact with people when they feel that way.
• 29:32
  But second of all, the other big thing that I keep thinking about
• 29:35
  is like all of my heroes. Well, a bunch of My Heroes Have,
• 29:38
  you know, died over the past number of years, right?
• 29:42
  Like Chris Cornell Scott Weiland, Tom Petty, I'm missing
• 29:47
  a few but like, these people were not happy.
• 29:50
  Mmm. Right.
• 29:52
  They were at the peak of their game.
• 29:55
  And they were miserable, they were not thrilled about being
• 30:02
  the most famous musicians, on the planet.
• 30:04
  And so, like, I keep trying to remind myself like, You know, a
• 30:09
  Jim Carrey said that he wished, everybody could be rich and
• 30:12
  famous. So they could experience that.
• 30:14
  It's not all. It's cracked up to be.
• 30:17
  And I that has really stuck with me over the past couple years
• 30:21
  it's like maybe getting everything you want.
• 30:25
  Isn't really what you want and like sometimes like imagining it
• 30:31
  is more enjoyable than actually getting it and it's like that
• 30:36
  sounds like sour grapes. I think a People, like you only
• 30:39
  think that because you're not famous, right?
• 30:41
  It's like, sure, I would like to make money from my heart.
• 30:44
  That would pay my bills, all that stuff.
• 30:46
  But I also have to recognize that people at the Mountaintop
• 30:49
  have said, it's not that great at up here.
• 30:52
  Yeah, and that's the thing as well, like it's a couple of
• 30:54
  things here. One being famous is not what it
• 30:57
  was, you know, like anyone could become famous these days.
• 31:02
  So what you become famous for is key?
• 31:05
  You know, do people, are you just well know, Known for like,
• 31:09
  I don't know being on a reality show or are you famous because
• 31:12
  people respect your work and Revere you and stuff because
• 31:16
  it's that everyone loves to receive a compliment, right?
• 31:20
  Everyone loves to be showered with attention.
• 31:22
  But, you know, there are some people who need it, who crave it
• 31:25
  for their ego. And then, there are other people
• 31:27
  that are like, meh, whatever, right?
• 31:29
  I think for me, growing up, I really wanted it because I had
• 31:33
  self-esteem issues and I was really, you know, I felt like
• 31:36
  crap about myself and I thought, If I become famous, you know,
• 31:40
  maybe that's the key, you know, everyone will love me and I'll
• 31:43
  feel good about myself, but that's that doesn't work.
• 31:46
  You need to learn to love yourself first and foremost, and
• 31:50
  it doesn't really matter what people think, you know, it
• 31:52
  matters what you think. Yeah, but that's that recently
• 31:56
  in myself that you know, it shouldn't have taken this long
• 32:00
  to discover it that you know, my creativity is largely driven by
• 32:06
  trying to get other people to love.
• 32:08
  Me like, you know, I don't have that love for myself that I
• 32:13
  should have. And a large piece of me making
• 32:17
  shit is because I want people to say, oh my God, this is great,
• 32:21
  and you're great. And but then the, the crazy part
• 32:27
  about it is that even when someone says I love this, I'm
• 32:30
  like, no. You don't like, you know, I like
• 32:32
  push it away, right? Like, there's this weird thing
• 32:36
  that our brains do or at least my brain Where it's like you
• 32:39
  want people to connect to you with your art but then when they
• 32:44
  do you're like, you know, it feels weird to accept it.
• 32:48
  So you know, you kind of push it away and pretend like it's not a
• 32:51
  thing. But yeah.
• 32:52
  It's musicians aren't known for being healthy right?
• 32:57
  Like creative types of not speaking.
• 33:01
  Who was it? This maybe it was Morrissey.
• 33:04
  That said it like you know, He liked being like a sort of a
• 33:08
  tortured soul and I think like a lot of creatives.
• 33:11
  Yeah, we are tortured Souls. You know what I mean?
• 33:13
  It's like my life hasn't even been that difficult.
• 33:16
  But I can think of like low moments dark things.
• 33:19
  You know, things have happened, things that happen to friends
• 33:22
  and that realistically is where the good stuff comes from.
• 33:27
  You know, because it's like, we're as humans, were we
• 33:31
  gravitate towards Darkness, towards tough things?
• 33:34
  Yeah, that's why we love. Things like serial killer
• 33:37
  documentaries and stuff, it's like it's fucked up beds that
• 33:40
  it's fascination with that, you know, if everything's happy and
• 33:43
  go-lucky and stuff. Like, that's not really, not a
• 33:47
  lot of people can really relate to that.
• 33:48
  Unfortunately, it's great to feel happy and want to party,
• 33:51
  and dance, and be happy in the moment.
• 33:53
  But like, a lot of us are dealing with struggles, that you
• 33:56
  just don't see. And I think that when you listen
• 33:59
  to certain music that can make you feel, how you're feeling
• 34:04
  right? Do you feel like I Can relate to
• 34:06
  this, this is exactly how I feel.
• 34:08
  That's probably where that personal connection you were
• 34:10
  talking about comes from because like this person gets my
• 34:12
  struggle and it's like, well, it's not a unique struggle, you
• 34:16
  know, I thought, you know, we had a band, you know, when I had
• 34:20
  the live band going a bunch of years ago, you know, we were
• 34:24
  talking about things along this line and my drummer Bob asked
• 34:29
  me, like, he's like, who hurt you?
• 34:32
  You know, as we were working on a new song and it was I don't
• 34:36
  know how to write happy songs. I never had, you know, in my
• 34:40
  teen years, like, when I first started working on songwriting,
• 34:42
  my mom is, like, why don't you try anything happy?
• 34:44
  And I was like, what? Like I don't, I'm not happy.
• 34:48
  So, I don't know how to do that. And like, that has been the
• 34:50
  theme that has run through my music for the entire time.
• 34:53
  I've been working on it. So, my drummer says, like, who
• 34:56
  hurt you? Why is everything so miserable?
• 34:58
  And, you know, the guy that I've been in the band with the
• 35:00
  longest Matt was like, Adams is tortured soul is our Wellspring.
• 35:04
  Like, that's the only reason why we have new songs all the time
• 35:07
  is because like if he wasn't miserable, if you nothing the
• 35:11
  way, I mean, and that's just, that's the reality of it, right?
• 35:15
  It's like, you know, when you're there's only so many songs that
• 35:20
  you can write about like, you know, get on your I can't I
• 35:24
  can't even think of any other. I just was listening to this new
• 35:27
  album by Royal teeth and they have one.
• 35:29
  It's like, you know, we're going to make it happen or something
• 35:31
  and it's all just like positive like reinforcement, you know?
• 35:36
  Statements and it was just like I could never write this song
• 35:39
  not in a million years. Could I write the song?
• 35:42
  I I have to it, has to be. I just had a huge break up or,
• 35:46
  you know, something in my life, went wrong, somebody died.
• 35:50
  Like, that's the only thing I know how to do.
• 35:51
  It's only thing I know how to connect to there's these two
• 35:54
  songs that I've been listening to a lot recently that I really
• 35:58
  like happy-go-lucky Positive Vibes.
• 36:01
  But when you listen to the lyrics, they're actually really
• 36:04
  depressing. And I realized something dawned
• 36:06
  on me recently that a lot of the music, I love even because I'm
• 36:09
  obviously drawn towards miserable music, you know, I
• 36:12
  love me. The Smiths and Radiohead and you
• 36:14
  know gone gone gone right? And it makes me laugh because
• 36:18
  I'm like this is I'm just you know I'm a guy am exactly what I
• 36:24
  hate that kind of type of person that's like a muse sitting there
• 36:28
  like going woe is me and it's like I'm not that guy, but I
• 36:31
  love that. And that's totally how I write
• 36:33
  and that's totally what I mean to but I'm not a miserable guy
• 36:37
  but I sometimes feel like that and it's I don't know.
• 36:39
  It's that constant not understanding.
• 36:42
  Anything kind of thing but it's either.
• 36:45
  I suppose it's good as a creative.
• 36:47
  But yeah, there's this song recently by this British pop
• 36:51
  artist called KSI. He's a YouTuber is now going to
• 36:55
  music, right? And he released the song called
• 36:58
  lighter and the the songs like really happy-go-lucky dance
• 37:04
  Vibes, perfect summer tune, right?
• 37:06
  But the lyrics are about like, basically getting over a breakup
• 37:11
  and literally feeling Lights up more positive as a result of
• 37:14
  getting away from that person. And a similar song that I listen
• 37:18
  to. When I was growing up, in sort
• 37:21
  of the 90's early, 2000's Dance, the Night Away by the Mavericks
• 37:26
  same thing. The lyrics like the songs really
• 37:28
  happy. They were dancing like a like
• 37:30
  sort of like it's a country song but it's like kind of got that
• 37:33
  like Mexican vibe to it and they're all like hey so happy
• 37:36
  and go-lucky. But the lyrics are like
• 37:38
  literally basically. I got over this breakup and I'm
• 37:42
  happy. And if she calls tell her to
• 37:44
  leave me alone, because I'm really happy right now.
• 37:46
  And I just like Jesus, like how many like actually happy songs
• 37:51
  are there were the lyrics are happy.
• 37:53
  They probably just don't. I mean the last one I could
• 37:55
  think of is probably that really annoying song by what's his
• 38:00
  name. Why for all that Despicable Me 2
• 38:05
  soundtrack? I think.
• 38:07
  So I'm happy. Yeah, that's funny about that is
• 38:12
  I feel When he was doing that, he probably was not happy at
• 38:15
  all, is because he probably had to do that like 50 times to get
• 38:18
  the video, right? And he's like, right did I have
• 38:21
  I swear, didn't he say somewhere that you actually hated that
• 38:24
  song now or I mean that's the thing.
• 38:26
  He's it's insanely talented producer and session drummer and
• 38:32
  you know he's got like when you once I found out that he existed
• 38:37
  and like I just started to see him pop up everywhere like in in
• 38:42
  my in my History. Right.
• 38:43
  It was like, oh, I didn't know that was him as, like, I think
• 38:47
  it's hilarious that he, then, you know, he gets this moment of
• 38:51
  Fame, you know, because he's again, he's a, he's a working
• 38:54
  musician. Who's been around for years and
• 38:56
  years and years, who is responsible for a lot of hits,
• 38:58
  but he was never in the public eye.
• 38:59
  Then he writes this crazy song about, you know, raising the
• 39:04
  roof and all that stuff and, you know, wears a silly hat and he's
• 39:10
  getting an Oscar and doing it. Doing the silly dances and
• 39:13
  whatever and I just think it's hilarious that like that's just
• 39:16
  how thing works, right? Like you get to make stuff and
• 39:19
  be in the shadows. But like if you you know, you
• 39:23
  write a silly song about being happy.
• 39:24
  Like all the sudden you can be on billboards and stuff like
• 39:27
  that. He's it.
• 39:28
  The interesting thing about songwriting as well as like many
• 39:32
  people that I've seen, who I was like, oh yeah, whatever happened
• 39:36
  to them. They made like this sort of go
• 39:38
  with it, like, in the 2000s and then they disappeared and then I
• 39:41
  found out. Oh, they've got into producing.
• 39:42
  Touring and holy shit. They wrote all of these songs
• 39:44
  and what's interesting about Pharrell.
• 39:46
  And also, Bruno Mars is obviously with with Ferrari.
• 39:50
  He was in any ID, the rap group thing, but he was mostly behind
• 39:54
  the scenes and Bruno Mars. Same thing for years, he wrote
• 39:57
  other people's songs, like he famously wrote Gnarls Barkley's
• 40:02
  crazy. And I remember one time seeing
• 40:05
  I'm going to chat so singing it and it's like, yeah, actually,
• 40:07
  it does kind of sound like his kind of a song and it's
• 40:11
  interesting what we were talking about with the Ego thing out
• 40:13
  here. I think a lot of them kind of
• 40:14
  think, like, you know what, I could easily have a whole career
• 40:18
  just doing songwriting and never be in the public eye.
• 40:20
  But what if, what if I just tried my hand at it, you know,
• 40:24
  and it's funny because those guys are really like they've
• 40:30
  probably quadrupled what they would have ever done just having
• 40:35
  that kind of a career by making themselves, you know, famous in
• 40:39
  their own right like, with their own music and It kind of stunts
• 40:43
  me that they hadn't done it sooner, particularly Bruno, Mars
• 40:46
  like with that voice. It's it's interesting but it
• 40:50
  could just be a case of time and like maybe he did tribe years
• 40:54
  before but it would just wasn't happening but it got so gonna do
• 40:59
  all. I was going to say was that it's
• 41:01
  funny how many working musicians, right?
• 41:04
  Other people's songs as well. Like I know Ed Sheeran's has
• 41:07
  written music for like Justin Bieber for example and I think
• 41:11
  Jesse ga He wrote some music for Miley Cyrus?
• 41:15
  Yeah, I mean the list goes on like they were right for each
• 41:17
  other and stuff and isn't that Miss Big Industry is a lot of
• 41:20
  money to be made in the industry, but I think people,
• 41:24
  you know, there's this logical fallacy that exists where, you
• 41:29
  know, someone will appear on, you know, the national Global
• 41:32
  stage and they'll had this huge hit and people will be like, oh,
• 41:37
  he's an overnight success. She's an overnight success.
• 41:39
  It's like, no, they've been working for 20 years.
• 41:43
  Slogging it away as a songwriter or, you know, as a backup singer
• 41:47
  or whatever. And the difference, maybe it's
• 41:51
  just that they got a connection that didn't exist before but it
• 41:53
  also I think belies like how much work goes into making that
• 41:58
  happen. Like there's a music label who's
• 42:01
  spending you know hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars
• 42:04
  on promoting that you know, like there's a publicist who's like
• 42:09
  coordinating, you know, uh publicity tour.
• 42:12
  You know, there's all kinds of hookers who are creating, you
• 42:16
  know, the actual like live music tour.
• 42:18
  You know, there's merchandise that goes into it, like there's
• 42:21
  commercial advertising like they, you know, it's an
• 42:23
  industry. It's one of the biggest
• 42:25
  industries in the world, right? Like where that it's all geared
• 42:28
  around. Like we take a product and we
• 42:31
  blast it out to the world through all these different
• 42:34
  channels. And you know, we as the
• 42:36
  consumers are kind of like oh that person came out of nowhere
• 42:38
  it. No, they didn't come out of
• 42:39
  nowhere. They cannot thirded strategy.
• 42:42
  That was, you know, trying to connect them with an audience at
• 42:45
  a certain time through huge amounts of work.
• 42:48
  And another thing that really strengthens that that argument
• 42:51
  as well as like when you see a musician, you know, like
• 42:54
  particular when you got ha, why did they go?
• 42:57
  They were really big for a while and then they disappear.
• 42:59
  Like, I know I covered this earlier but like A good example
• 43:03
  is Franz Ferdinand from the UK. They were really big in like the
• 43:07
  mid 2000s. They had that song.
• 43:09
  Take Me Out, was featured on in Guitar Hero II think.
• 43:13
  So, that gave it like a for international standing blah,
• 43:15
  blah, blah. Then they do a follow-up which I
• 43:18
  don't think the follow-up had quite as much International buzz
• 43:21
  but it did okay in the UK and then they kind of fizzled out,
• 43:24
  but they never stop playing. They never stop writing.
• 43:27
  They write music to this day but like you said, it's that
• 43:30
  particular strategy. She you know like at that time
• 43:33
  they had a bit of an 80s revival going on in at least in the UK.
• 43:38
  Yeah. And this was everything from the
• 43:40
  music to the the image and if you look at Franz ferdinand's
• 43:44
  image at the time, they had that kind of like emo hair going on
• 43:48
  which was very popular at the time.
• 43:49
  And emo is obviously a revamp version of the new Romantics
• 43:55
  movement from the 80s. So like nothing just happens by
• 43:58
  chance, it's all planned. Like I wouldn't even.
• 44:03
  I reckon there's a good chance that their record label even
• 44:06
  told them to, like, get dressed and get haircuts like that.
• 44:09
  And there's a good chance that happened.
• 44:11
  That's not a chance. That's a certainty.
• 44:13
  I was like, yeah, I use ago in a different life, you know, new a
• 44:19
  band that got signed to a big Christian legal and they were
• 44:22
  huge in that world. And even they, as soon as they
• 44:27
  got signed, they got stylist that took them out shopping.
• 44:30
  Got the new Utz and you know, dress them differently and
• 44:34
  they're like this is how you dress now, internet think that
• 44:37
  is everywhere like they're everybody's image is crafted by
• 44:42
  professionals and I'm not saying that as a knock, right?
• 44:45
  I think that's just a business. It's like you know, when you go
• 44:48
  to McDonald's, there's a team of people that brought you that
• 44:51
  hamburger. There's a supply chain behind
• 44:53
  that that, you know, put that meat in your face.
• 44:56
  It's not, you know, somebody just flipping a burger in the
• 44:59
  back and handing it to you like there's a whole process.
• 45:01
  Us that goes into farming you know you know having the cows
• 45:05
  and like feeding them. The right things that they're
• 45:08
  plump at the right time or whatever it is, you know,
• 45:11
  there's a whole chain that gets that to your face and it's like
• 45:14
  the same thing with music. There is a whole chain of
• 45:17
  Industry that gets to creates that thing before it reaches
• 45:21
  your ears. But it's interesting.
• 45:23
  You mentioned that happens in the Christian industry because
• 45:28
  okay I don't know much about Christian music.
• 45:30
  I noted its massive in America because obviously country music
• 45:34
  is huge in America like huge and there's some really good
• 45:38
  musicians actually. So, yeah, I've been, I've had
• 45:40
  people cussed me out for, like a country music and you don't know
• 45:43
  what you're missing. Okay, I've got one country.
• 45:46
  Yes it away, man. There's mean like Jerry Reed.
• 45:50
  Have you not got her dad? Jerry, I don't know him.
• 45:51
  No, no. Oh my God, you gotta check out
• 45:54
  Jerry. Reed, he's like the greatest of
• 45:55
  all time when it comes to country music like similarly
• 45:58
  for. Anyway, yeah, huge industry,
• 46:03
  especially in America and obviously there's a big
• 46:05
  connection to the Christian demographic in the, in the US,
• 46:09
  which is huge. And obviously that means there's
• 46:12
  Christian rock and Christian metal and that blew my mind,
• 46:16
  especially when I was growing up as this like metal Kid, Rock
• 46:19
  kid, I was like Christian metal, how does that work?
• 46:22
  And there's Actually a few there's a few bands in that
• 46:25
  industry that actually kind of slap hard, like quite well.
• 46:29
  But yeah, bring it back to the point.
• 46:32
  You said that, like the image matters and I would think hang
• 46:35
  on, if this music is about spreading the word of God.
• 46:38
  And, you know, spreading happiness and joy and God's
• 46:41
  word, and all this, why the fuck do they care about looks and
• 46:44
  stuff. Surely that stuff, shouldn't
• 46:46
  matter. You got tell me more about this
• 46:48
  man. What's going on?
• 46:49
  It shouldn't but it does, right? I hate even talk about it
• 46:51
  because I'm not That world anymore and I'm going back, I'm
• 46:54
  dating myself. But like when I was in that, you
• 46:57
  know, world like just as an example, there was a local
• 47:01
  touring vocal group that came to our church and that was their
• 47:05
  whole that they had a tour of us.
• 47:06
  You know. They traveled around the to one
• 47:09
  of the different churches. It's a huge industry of you know
• 47:14
  you have a built-in audience and like we're secular for: was
• 47:17
  secular performers Go and show up at different venues.
• 47:22
  It venues Christian bands, go around and play at different
• 47:25
  churches because they don't have to pack the house, it's already
• 47:28
  there. The audience is built-in and you
• 47:31
  know there's work that goes into that or whatever but you know,
• 47:34
  this band shows up vocal group better name for him.
• 47:39
  Every single one of them had, you know, this is going back
• 47:42
  years. They had like the blond
• 47:43
  highlights like the perfectly crafted, you know, hair that was
• 47:47
  just so and like it was two guys into women and they all, you
• 47:51
  know, we're fake blondes or at least they appeared to be, you
• 47:55
  know, like their hair was Flawless there.
• 47:58
  You know, they had the sequin t-shirts and all that stuff that
• 48:01
  were, you know, shiny and reflective in the lights.
• 48:03
  And, you know, all of their stage banter patter was like
• 48:07
  perfectly crafted. It was not, you know,
• 48:10
  extemporaneous at all and it just I felt like that reaction.
• 48:14
  You just had of like, look like that's how I felt when it was
• 48:16
  happening. I was doing sound for, you know,
• 48:20
  the Church of the time and I was just like, this is skeezy.
• 48:23
  I don't like anything about this and it's all like it's about an
• 48:26
  image, right? They can up there and they talk
• 48:28
  about, you know, oh, you know, they'll say things that sound
• 48:33
  like a sermon. But you can tell that they have
• 48:36
  written that very carefully. The time and it's going through
• 48:40
  the, you know, the drafting process.
• 48:42
  It's not coming off the cuff. Did you ever like see Christian
• 48:48
  acts that kind of would like, turn up and be like, yeah, we're
• 48:51
  megastars. We don't have to talk to you,
• 48:53
  like, we're, you know, like it. Did you get any of that or is
• 48:56
  that a bit too far? You know, I found that they were
• 49:01
  very personable and I did not get the impression that they
• 49:04
  were, you know, holier than now. Nice.
• 49:09
  No. I never had like a negative
• 49:11
  experience with them, but there was definitely like the level of
• 49:14
  celebrity, right? Like they were, they were the
• 49:17
  one band that I'm referring to do.
• 49:18
  Like, I don't want to name them. But, you know, they were very
• 49:20
  well known in the National Market.
• 49:23
  And, you know, they won double Wards and all that kind of
• 49:27
  stuff, which is the Christian Grammy and, you know, they were
• 49:32
  really nice guys. They were insanely good
• 49:34
  musicians, but I just ate was hilarious to me that, you know,
• 49:37
  before they got signed they were A quirky and like, you know,
• 49:40
  they would play like the Knight Rider theme song at their shows
• 49:44
  and, you know, they would do like a whole bunch of 80 songs
• 49:49
  and stuff like that. And they their songs had like a
• 49:51
  cool Edge to them, and I was always like these guys are more
• 49:55
  talented than they get credit for then they get signed and all
• 49:58
  of a sudden like their music turned into like three chord,
• 50:01
  you know, very basic, no, Rita hit songs.
• 50:06
  And, you know, they were and they and they were open about it
• 50:08
  like the You know, they had talked to one label and the
• 50:11
  label told them like you're not right for us right now, but your
• 50:14
  clothes, then they got to the other label.
• 50:16
  They did know addition and the labels.
• 50:18
  Like, if you do this that and this you work with our producers
• 50:21
  will get you there, and that's what they did.
• 50:23
  They, you know, became a product that was sold on the Christian
• 50:27
  market and it's like, I'm not in no way.
• 50:29
  Am I judging them for this? Like that's just the way it
• 50:32
  works, you know? It's like finding out how the
• 50:34
  sausage is made, sometimes a little bit upsetting and you.
• 50:38
  Have a look at it, the food the same way but that's just it's
• 50:41
  the nature of the business. This is why I never want to get
• 50:44
  signed by l.a. Yeah.
• 50:46
  Ever. Because if I had someone to turn
• 50:48
  around to me and be like, you have to cut your hair, you have
• 50:50
  to say this, you have to dress that way.
• 50:52
  I'd be like go fuck yourself. I did there that Jesus.
• 50:56
  I don't know. I'd have to see the check first
• 50:58
  then no, come on man. You can't sell your soul.
• 51:01
  Console yourself. I don't know.
• 51:03
  I got a mouth to feed, you know. I got a 45 year old kid like
• 51:06
  okay. Okay I'll for another way,
• 51:08
  right? Let's say I would record
• 51:10
  producer and I say, okay, I'll give you a check for two million
• 51:15
  right on right now, but I owned 100% of your music forever.
• 51:23
  All future realities everything. You earn goes to me, including
• 51:28
  merchandise. Yeah.
• 51:30
  Now I think that kind of thing, I would probably not like now as
• 51:34
  an older guy, you know, like I think that would hit me
• 51:38
  differently. That it would it when I was 25,
• 51:41
  okay? Because I've only because I've
• 51:43
  read about the experiences of people who've gone through that
• 51:46
  and everything turned out the other side and said, it wasn't
• 51:48
  worth it. Yeah, you know, Billy Corgan
• 51:50
  from Smashing Pumpkins talks about that a lot.
• 51:52
  Yeah. Like he was just fed a line of
• 51:54
  bullshit and told he was amazing in that he was the star of the
• 51:57
  band. And so he became that asshole.
• 52:00
  And then, you know, he realized like he abandoned his friends
• 52:04
  and like betrayed them and, you know, left them to rot and the
• 52:07
  band fell apart as a A little bit and he was like if I could
• 52:10
  take that back I would and you know I just don't think I've
• 52:17
  seen enough examples where the band's didn't get anything out
• 52:22
  of it. They end up owning the record
• 52:24
  label money because they gave up all their publishing.
• 52:26
  They gave up all their merchandising and now they've
• 52:29
  got nothing to show for it. And, you know, Taylor Swift is
• 52:32
  going through that right now. She's re-recording all of her
• 52:34
  songs because some jerk owns her catalog and she can't even In no
• 52:39
  way. Do I feel bad for Taylor Swift?
• 52:41
  But this is an example. Yeah, just as an example that
• 52:45
  it's not always what it's cracked up to be.
• 52:47
  And again, like I would seriously think about it.
• 52:55
  What's everyone's gonna price? Everyone's got a price, I mean,
• 53:00
  it's that whole chance, right? Like Rage Against the Machine is
• 53:03
  like, the, the poster children for anti-establishment, right?
• 53:07
  But their own, They're on a label, right?
• 53:09
  They were when they were playing, they had to make
• 53:13
  concessions about their music. I'm sure the music industry's
• 53:16
  changed now, they're like a lot of musicians.
• 53:18
  I've had on. We've had this debate.
• 53:20
  Would you go independent, would you go on a label?
• 53:21
  And I always say the same thing of like, well, I think it's
• 53:24
  better to get a distribution deal with a major provider, but
• 53:29
  still own your music because any kind of deal where you cut a
• 53:33
  deal. And, you know, even if it's like
• 53:35
  60, 60/40 or 70/30, they In a percentage, you know, that's
• 53:40
  money going to two people who didn't do anything for you.
• 53:43
  Like the most. And the thing is these days, we
• 53:46
  have the power of the internet. You don't need this like years
• 53:50
  ago to get your name out there. You needed a company to
• 53:54
  essentially all the record label to essentially workers like the
• 53:56
  marketing end and to promote you, but now you don't need
• 54:00
  that. You can do all of that shit
• 54:01
  yourself for free. So what can the label really
• 54:05
  offer? You other than Mass kind of
• 54:08
  distribution? Russian.
• 54:08
  That's really the only thing that's worth kind of going for
• 54:11
  these days. I mean and I think I'd say the
• 54:14
  one thing that they could on for you that I can't that I as a
• 54:17
  musician, come here, can't provide is skill, right?
• 54:20
  Like I am not good at self-promotion.
• 54:23
  I am terrible at it. And so like, you know, for so
• 54:29
  many years, I've been at the same level because like, I hate
• 54:33
  talking about myself, right? I hate going on social media and
• 54:37
  saying, hey, look at this. I did, you know, I do it because
• 54:41
  I know I need to in order for someone to hear it.
• 54:43
  And that's why I want the ultimate goal is for people to
• 54:45
  hear the music but like, I still am terrible at it.
• 54:49
  Despite having been involved in this business, quote unquote
• 54:54
  for, you know, almost 20 years. So, it's like, as a great
• 54:57
  example, you know, we went through one of those companies
• 55:03
  that licenses your music for film and TV and they put one of
• 55:08
  our Songs in a Netflix foam. And I was like, if you want to
• 55:12
  run, is that correct 2801? Yeah, yeah.
• 55:15
  It was on a movie called The, Keeping hours.
• 55:18
  Yes, that's right. Which is a decent movie.
• 55:21
  Like, I was actually surprised. I expected it to be a piece of
• 55:23
  junk, but it was actually cool. Yeah, it's a phone with Lee Pace
• 55:29
  and you know, they play he's like he's going through a kind
• 55:33
  of a moment where he's you know, him and his wife have divorced.
• 55:38
  Their son passed away. And so like, he's packing up the
• 55:41
  house, and he's just sitting there, drinking a beer, listen
• 55:43
  to Our Song, and like that was a holy shit experience, right?
• 55:46
  But, you know, I talked to a couple friends with her.
• 55:49
  Like, how did you get some good money on?
• 55:50
  That is like, no, I got like a couple tanks of gas out of it.
• 55:56
  Maybe. Well, hold on.
• 55:57
  Do you know, get like constant royalties from that song?
• 56:00
  Oh no, no, no. So that's the thing is like the
• 56:03
  licensing. Yeah, this is a whole thing.
• 56:06
  We're getting like, way far away but we're talking about industry
• 56:08
  now, right? Right?
• 56:09
  The the world of Licensing is a total.
• 56:14
  I'm not it is meant to put hands on the money of the Publishers
• 56:18
  and not so much the musician, right?
• 56:20
  So I same is really good industry.
• 56:22
  Then basically, in a nutshell, in the place of that right in
• 56:26
  the modern world. So, like the publisher now, owns
• 56:30
  that song in perpetuity and I ends we got 50% of the payment.
• 56:38
  The, the publisher got the other 50% and then because there's
• 56:41
  three songwriters I had to split it three ways.
• 56:43
  So it was like, maybe a tank and a half of gas for me.
• 56:48
  And then for the other two guys and like the publisher, if
• 56:52
  that's Ong, were to get picked up by somebody else, they would
• 56:56
  get equal payment as I would, and it's you notice if he put
• 57:01
  get picked up the huge still get money now.
• 57:03
  Like let's say it gets picked up things.
• 57:04
  So yeah, if there was another payment put out, I would get
• 57:08
  50%. Scent of it, I think.
• 57:09
  Okay. So you didn't get totally
• 57:10
  screwed. Like there's still something
• 57:12
  that's getting I'm not even saying I'm in no way.
• 57:14
  Am I saying I'm screwed? I'm just saying it's not like
• 57:17
  it's a fair deal because they did the work of going and
• 57:20
  getting that in a same movie that I couldn't do.
• 57:23
  Yeah. But I just I'm saying it's not
• 57:26
  what people imagine like. Oh you know, I wrote my rent
• 57:28
  check that month from, you know, ganesan know like it's some,
• 57:33
  it's some money. It's nice to get paid for your
• 57:36
  work but it's not, you know, The music industry has become so
• 57:40
  flooded with musicians who are able, you know, the
• 57:43
  democratization of music has made it such that anybody can
• 57:47
  make the music now, but anybody can make the music now.
• 57:49
  And so there's if you walk on a deal, there's a thousand a
• 57:54
  million people behind you who will happily take that deal and
• 57:58
  not care about whether they get paid or not.
• 58:01
  Yeah, but I kind of feel this like what we've been saying
• 58:04
  before you got to think about the future like things have
• 58:07
  changed, you know what I mean? Like even for you you took about
• 58:11
  like, okay, or if I did a deal with the record label, I can get
• 58:15
  skill from the dude, you'd be better off.
• 58:17
  Just employing someone to do your social media marketing for
• 58:20
  you. That would be better off.
• 58:22
  Long-term then signing with a record label because of these
• 58:26
  buki percentage deals. I got my I'm a business guy.
• 58:29
  So when I look at that I'm like okay Screwed is a bit of a harsh
• 58:32
  word, but I always think that the percentage should be in
• 58:36
  favor of the musician, tenotomy, it out, even if it's like, I
• 58:41
  don't know, 5545, I still think that's better, just because you
• 58:45
  have that controlling interest and, you know, you can get kind
• 58:49
  of, you can say, oh, I know, actually we want x x and x, you
• 58:52
  know, but if it's like 50/50 or weighted against you, you don't
• 58:56
  have it's the same as running a business.
• 58:57
  You don't have the kind of the say so, or or like, you know,
• 59:02
  you've got other people to answer to and I just think
• 59:04
  that's BS. When it's your own music, your
• 59:06
  own product that you've created tirelessly and put effort into
• 59:09
  it, you know, I don't know, maybe this is because I'm a
• 59:11
  musician. So I'm like fight the good
• 59:13
  fight. The screw the man.
• 59:14
  You know, it's like I get it and I've been there but I'm also
• 59:18
  like, you know, I try to be a little bit more.
• 59:22
  I don't know what like balanced about it.
• 59:24
  Now we're here because we went through this right where we
• 59:27
  went, when I had the gigging band.
• 59:30
  We To book a tour. There's all these peripheral
• 59:34
  company in my music blog, I wrote about this, I called him
• 59:37
  like Carpetbaggers, right? It's like once once, like
• 59:40
  musician music became democratized, all these like,
• 59:43
  little extra companies came out of the woodwork that are like,
• 59:46
  oh, we can help you, you know, will be the your record label
• 59:49
  for you. Like you still get to keep
• 59:51
  everything but we'll book your tour or you know, we'll get you
• 59:54
  played on Regional radio or, you know, the college circuit like
• 59:58
  will connect you, with the companies that book The Colleges
• 1:00:02
  or you know one of the other things was like will give you
• 1:00:06
  the mailing list of all the venues in your area and two
• 1:00:09
  contacts for them. You just have to pay a fee and
• 1:00:13
  then we'll provide you with the mailing labels and then you can
• 1:00:16
  send your one sheet out to them to get, you know, a gig.
• 1:00:20
  So we did pretty much like all of that and in almost every case
• 1:00:25
  it worked out to nothing, right? It like it ended up.
• 1:00:28
  I'm like I wouldn't call it a scam but it was like,
• 1:00:31
  Definitely, a situation that benefited them because they're
• 1:00:34
  getting money and we got nothing.
• 1:00:36
  So like you know, the guy that sent us the mailing labels for
• 1:00:40
  all the venues not a single one responding, I think we had over
• 1:00:44
  like 200 venues on they're mostly women responded.
• 1:00:48
  Most of them came back is not deliverable.
• 1:00:50
  So the labels were probably outdated or you know incorrect.
• 1:00:55
  Then we had another guy who like, he claimed to be a
• 1:00:59
  producer who worked with the, I'm not going to say the band
• 1:01:03
  name because I don't want to get sued.
• 1:01:05
  He worked with big label bands from the 90s and he was like,
• 1:01:09
  you know, I can take you to the next level or whatever.
• 1:01:11
  So we paid him some money because, you know, he kind of
• 1:01:13
  wowed us, he took us out to dinner and we were like, oh this
• 1:01:16
  guy's like the legit and, you know, he made a call to a studio
• 1:01:21
  for us where we ended up recording an album with them,
• 1:01:23
  but like all he did was call them, we could have called them
• 1:01:27
  but that's literally all the connection he made was he just
• 1:01:30
  said, like, I have this And they want to record.
• 1:01:32
  Are you willing? And they were like, do you have
• 1:01:34
  money? We're like, yeah, we have money
• 1:01:35
  and they're like, well, then you can record here.
• 1:01:38
  So, you know and then he disappeared.
• 1:01:40
  So he took our money and ran like he took a large amount of
• 1:01:43
  money. Yeah.
• 1:01:44
  And we felt like fools, right? And we were fools, so it was
• 1:01:48
  right for us to feel that way because like we should not have
• 1:01:50
  given him money until like he actually did something useful
• 1:01:53
  for us. I think it's forgivable.
• 1:01:55
  They've been giving musicians like I like even for me like 30
• 1:01:59
  at the time. So I wasn't that young.
• 1:02:01
  Still do is to me like how do you know it's like life is about
• 1:02:06
  making these mistakes and learning from them as that.
• 1:02:08
  I think it's just now that we have more information and more
• 1:02:11
  access to know how these industries work.
• 1:02:14
  We know that there are options, I think that's kind of what I'm
• 1:02:17
  alluding to is that, you know, it's different.
• 1:02:19
  Like in the 90s, there wasn't options.
• 1:02:21
  Now there's options and it's like you don't have to put up
• 1:02:24
  with that stuff. I mean, I find it very telling
• 1:02:26
  that a lot of major musicians are going back to Independent
• 1:02:29
  labels like mac, the Marco. Famously went back to
• 1:02:33
  Independent label, think Kanye's, trying to get out of
• 1:02:36
  his contract and go independent now, Metallica, For example,
• 1:02:40
  they made their own record label in like 2015.
• 1:02:44
  Something like that, because they finally managed to buy
• 1:02:46
  their back catalog. And then they naturally
• 1:02:49
  re-released all their old music and their new music on that
• 1:02:51
  label because they'd only just been able to buy their masters
• 1:02:54
  out. So, it's like, I think there's a
• 1:02:57
  lot to be said for owning your own music and everything.
• 1:03:01
  Yeah, I hope that that's always the case, right?
• 1:03:04
  I don't ever want to lose control of my stuff, right?
• 1:03:07
  And it you know if if I was capable of doing the promotional
• 1:03:12
  work, I think I would be in a much better state, right?
• 1:03:16
  Like, you know, the band would be like but it's I don't know.
• 1:03:21
  I need to you're right. I need to connect with the
• 1:03:23
  people who are good at that and instead of maybe trying to do it
• 1:03:27
  all myself. But the opportunity does exist,
• 1:03:29
  I could do it. If I was You know, willing to
• 1:03:33
  put in the energy and the time, I guess.
• 1:03:34
  But yeah, in my perfect world, I had always hoped that someone
• 1:03:40
  would come along and he's like, I recognize the quality of your
• 1:03:43
  music and I would like to now bring what I can to it, which
• 1:03:46
  is, you know, the business side of it or whatever.
• 1:03:49
  And we had a couple people like that.
• 1:03:50
  We went through probably like, six managers over time, who were
• 1:03:54
  people, who thought they could take the band to the next level,
• 1:03:58
  and they all eat their head against the wall for For a few
• 1:04:01
  months or longer and then they were like, oh this is harder
• 1:04:05
  than it looks so you know, It's Tricky.
• 1:04:12
  Moving it Forward. Obviously you mentioned earlier
• 1:04:15
  that you got a new record coming out, now on your website, it
• 1:04:18
  states that you will, you're going to release the sub or sort
• 1:04:21
  of it was stated that you're going to release it last year as
• 1:04:25
  a follow-up to 2019, s under the mountain.
• 1:04:29
  Now, I think you mentioned the day earlier, might have got that
• 1:04:32
  wrong, but when do you think we can actually expect this next
• 1:04:34
  record? And more importantly, what kind
• 1:04:37
  of themes do you think it's going to cover lyrical?
• 1:04:39
  Like what's the direction of this new record?
• 1:04:42
  Yeah, so it did get push back a little bit.
• 1:04:45
  I was hoping to release in 2020. I was hoping to continue jamming
• 1:04:49
  with Dan and Ryan. The guys who work with me on
• 1:04:51
  this one and but then covid hit and you know, that really
• 1:04:55
  impacted our schedule. So I'm hoping that it will be
• 1:04:58
  done. It's in mastering right now.
• 1:05:00
  So oh excellent. Yeah, I'm hoping to get it back
• 1:05:03
  in the next week and then, you know, it should be out.
• 1:05:05
  I would think in, like a month or so.
• 1:05:08
  What was the name again? If the record parasite and
• 1:05:11
  host-parasite and host. Okay, yeah, so lyrically, this
• 1:05:17
  album is It's a whole long story.
• 1:05:20
  I'll try to keep it as short as possible.
• 1:05:22
  I'm really bad at telling short story, so I apologize.
• 1:05:24
  Hey, I'm going to bed of, man. I love story.
• 1:05:28
  So, when my son was born, his mom went through a real
• 1:05:34
  difficult experience. You know.
• 1:05:36
  I don't want to go into the details of it but basically
• 1:05:38
  like, you know, she had a huge, it just it devastated, both of
• 1:05:44
  our lives and we ended up splitting up, right?
• 1:05:47
  Thank you. But you know, it's all worked
• 1:05:49
  out for the She's you know, met someone else.
• 1:05:50
  She's happy, they've had another kid but, you know, it was a
• 1:05:54
  really difficult experience for me for, you know, you know, a
• 1:05:58
  newborn baby. I'm sure because he ended up
• 1:06:00
  being separated from his mom for a time and like, you know, and
• 1:06:03
  certainly for her. So after that experience, it
• 1:06:08
  just, it rocked my world, right? I was always a hesitant parent.
• 1:06:12
  I was not she convinced me to become a parent and, you know,
• 1:06:18
  And it was something I was worried about something I was
• 1:06:19
  very nervous about, and when he was born, you know, she kept
• 1:06:24
  saying, like, oh, it's gonna be great.
• 1:06:25
  Like, everything's gonna be fine.
• 1:06:26
  Stop worrying. And then when, you know, when
• 1:06:29
  all this went down, and it was like as bad and worse than I had
• 1:06:33
  imagined. With all of the drama, I was
• 1:06:36
  just like devastated and, you know, my world was pretty much
• 1:06:41
  over in my mind, right? Like, I didn't know how to be a
• 1:06:44
  parent. I didn't know how to be a single
• 1:06:45
  parent, certainly, and You know, I went to this really dark
• 1:06:49
  period Rogers like, this is, you know, it's over life is
• 1:06:54
  pointless, like I'm out. And so, you know, it was really
• 1:06:59
  heavy was really dark and I made I just realized I didn't realize
• 1:07:03
  at the time, I started making decisions that I didn't care
• 1:07:07
  about other people. I didn't care about myself.
• 1:07:09
  I didn't care what happened. I didn't hear about the
• 1:07:10
  consequences, so I just like, sorry.
• 1:07:13
  I've got, there's a guy outside working on. 70 fearsome, hammer.
• 1:07:18
  But I, you know, I didn't have any care about whether life
• 1:07:24
  continued or not and I made some really dark decisions that hurt
• 1:07:28
  a lot of people. Right.
• 1:07:29
  Like, you know, I was cruel to people, I was uncaring and I
• 1:07:36
  just went around as if I was the only person that mattered
• 1:07:39
  because I thought like life is pointless.
• 1:07:41
  So, why should I bother carrying all of that to say?
• 1:07:46
  The songs Under the Mountain, had a lot to do with like you
• 1:07:50
  know what, what brought all this on?
• 1:07:54
  Like is mental health, you know? Did this come from me?
• 1:07:58
  Is this coming from the people who made me write?
• 1:08:01
  This is coming from my parents, my grandparents who all had
• 1:08:04
  their own issues with mental health.
• 1:08:06
  You know, is kind of like delving into that Darkness with
• 1:08:08
  like a empathetic Approach parasite and host is like fuck
• 1:08:16
  that. Let's pretend that that was the
• 1:08:19
  right way to go. Let's pretend that you know
• 1:08:22
  ruining people's lives was the right choice.
• 1:08:25
  Lets you know it's kind of like living in.
• 1:08:30
  It's almost like embracing the dark side and saying you know,
• 1:08:35
  it was fun. Like the darkness is is Fun, the
• 1:08:40
  darkness is enjoyable, and there were good things that came out
• 1:08:43
  of it. And so I kind of like whenever I
• 1:08:47
  write songs like that, there's this kind of character I created
• 1:08:51
  in my head that you know because I'm just very I walk into a bar
• 1:08:56
  I am social anxiety through, right?
• 1:08:59
  Like I am worried about, you know, what is that person doing?
• 1:09:04
  Is that guy going to get in a fight?
• 1:09:06
  And you know, why is the music so loud?
• 1:09:10
  And did I just say the wrong thing?
• 1:09:11
  You know, I never and I never feel comfortable in social
• 1:09:14
  environment. This character in my head is the
• 1:09:18
  guy that walks in the bar as like everyone should be looking
• 1:09:20
  at me right now. long Square Under the Mountain was all like
• 1:09:26
  the self-doubt and the social anxiety and all that, you know,
• 1:09:29
  the the weaker side of it, but still trying to retain,
• 1:09:35
  Humanity, parasite and host is like Fuck it don't care.
• 1:09:40
  I'm the one that matters. Everybody else can you know deal
• 1:09:44
  and so it's like it's dark. It's dark but it's it's also
• 1:09:48
  more fun because it's like you know those people it's like a
• 1:09:52
  straight Rock album and I haven't made one of those for a
• 1:09:55
  long time. Hmm.
• 1:09:57
  And you know, Dad's going to say if I could just interject for
• 1:09:59
  one second, one of your, I think the earliest record you did or
• 1:10:04
  one of the early around, sort of 2009 to 2011 time was very
• 1:10:08
  Heavy. And it's interesting because if
• 1:10:09
  you look at your back catalog because I actually really liked
• 1:10:13
  your music, like I do thanks headed to my Spotify stars like
• 1:10:16
  this, this slaps. But what's interesting is, yeah,
• 1:10:18
  that very first record or one of the earlier ones is very Rock
• 1:10:21
  orientated, like quite very heavy and the rest of the
• 1:10:24
  album's go off on this kind of like, Acoustic country kind of
• 1:10:29
  vibe. I guess it's probably the best
• 1:10:31
  way to sum it up and then, yeah. So we're sort of like, full
• 1:10:35
  circle coming back to the roots are guess and going for
• 1:10:38
  something a bit heavier, which is interesting.
• 1:10:41
  Yeah, this one I you know, I tend to go through like I put
• 1:10:45
  stuff in the musical or the creative blender, right.
• 1:10:48
  And then you don't know what comes out until like six months
• 1:10:51
  to a year later, write it there's like a lag time.
• 1:10:54
  So I went through a year of just listening to nothing.
• 1:10:57
  But like, blues rock, like, Kenny Wayne Shepherd, Gary,
• 1:11:03
  Clark jr. And and then like a lot of retro
• 1:11:09
  meaning Rock. So like The Black Keys or the
• 1:11:12
  Amazons and, you know, just kind of like and then I went a little
• 1:11:18
  deeper and just spent a while listening to nothing but like
• 1:11:21
  Buddy, Holly and Elvis, you know where I just wanted to get like,
• 1:11:24
  what is like what are the root components of?
• 1:11:27
  Rock like what makes this wide like?
• 1:11:29
  Because you listen to Jailhouse Rock.
• 1:11:31
  Write that song is like what I do 70 or 80 years old song is
• 1:11:35
  still amazing. It's not like it's not amazing
• 1:11:38
  as like a historical piece. It's amazing.
• 1:11:40
  Like, if that song came out right now, Elvis would be a bona
• 1:11:44
  fide star. Because like his voice in that
• 1:11:46
  like the grit, he puts on it and, you know, it's insane.
• 1:11:50
  How captivating it is? I was like, what is it about
• 1:11:54
  this stuff that makes So, damn good.
• 1:11:58
  And so like I spent probably like over a year year and a half
• 1:12:02
  trying to just, like, delve into that stuff and then see what
• 1:12:06
  comes out of it. And, you know, Ryan and Dan,
• 1:12:08
  both have different musical influences.
• 1:12:11
  And, you know, they brought something new to the table,
• 1:12:15
  right? Which is like when we were
• 1:12:17
  jamming we just would, like, put together a verse and a chorus
• 1:12:20
  and it was like because the band is there live, there's an energy
• 1:12:24
  to that that you don't get when you're just.
• 1:12:27
  With a guitar and your notebook, you know.
• 1:12:29
  So I think this one has a lot more up-tempo vibe to it than
• 1:12:33
  any of my previous albums. Cool.
• 1:12:36
  Yeah, no. Look forward to hearing the.
• 1:12:39
  So, since February now, do you reckon with in the next couple
• 1:12:42
  of months or whatever a particular date pain?
• 1:12:45
  Okay. So I hope so.
• 1:12:47
  I mean I don't have a date in mind.
• 1:12:50
  It's just as soon as possible, you know, like covid said,
• 1:12:53
  everybody back obviously but like with this Fees.
• 1:12:57
  It's always tricky because it's like you know once the mastering
• 1:13:00
  is done then you know we might have to go back and forth once
• 1:13:02
  or twice with the mastering guy and then then it's you know you
• 1:13:07
  put it on the platforms and sometimes there it's ready in
• 1:13:10
  like a week and sometimes it's ready in like a month and so you
• 1:13:12
  just, you never know, but I'm aiming for early spring at the
• 1:13:16
  latest given that your music is available on platforms, like
• 1:13:21
  Spotify and apple and apple easy available iTunes.
• 1:13:25
  Okay. Yeah, it's any streaming
• 1:13:26
  platform. So Amazon Apple Spotify put it
• 1:13:29
  out everywhere. Like, if she did have to go into
• 1:13:33
  specifics, but like, I've heard a lot of stuff in the media
• 1:13:35
  about how musicians kind of get screwed over and plat, you know,
• 1:13:40
  you don't really get a lot out of these platforms.
• 1:13:44
  As far as I money, money is concerned, like, how has it been
• 1:13:46
  for you like? Is it, is it worth it?
• 1:13:50
  You know, can you, can you kind of make a living off it?
• 1:13:52
  Or is it just kind of like, you know what?
• 1:13:54
  We've Stuff out there. And that's the most important
• 1:13:57
  thing. Yeah, so this is where I'm
• 1:13:59
  really bad at Christian is I do not do well with the business,
• 1:14:02
  right? And when when I was a gigging
• 1:14:06
  musician, people would come up to me and be like it's your
• 1:14:09
  album for sale. I be like, you know, I don't
• 1:14:10
  even putting up paying for it, just take, you know and that
• 1:14:16
  that is the reaction that all the other band members would
• 1:14:19
  have when you motherfucker, like that's that's gas money for us.
• 1:14:25
  I just don't know what that is. I don't know why I have that
• 1:14:31
  inclination because it's stupid, it's really dumb, right?
• 1:14:35
  I can get it. I get it.
• 1:14:36
  I think it's fair. Like remember when I first did
• 1:14:39
  my very, very first record like we did sell it, but I think we
• 1:14:44
  did give out a certain amount of copies for free because you have
• 1:14:46
  to like, you can't charge that you.
• 1:14:48
  I mean, you can charge your friends but they're yeah, I
• 1:14:52
  know, I know that feeling that you talking about you does make
• 1:14:54
  you feel about. Initially.
• 1:14:56
  But In fairness, if it's a stranger, why shouldn't you
• 1:14:58
  charge you money for it? You know, it's your work.
• 1:15:01
  It's I mean and it's not like I didn't put work, you know it's
• 1:15:04
  years of effort in some cases right?
• 1:15:06
  Like a year or two worth of work, it's every minute I'm not
• 1:15:09
  at my job. Like you know I'm working on
• 1:15:12
  this in a lot of ways and you know so it's a dumb, it's a dumb
• 1:15:19
  thing. I don't know why I do it but all
• 1:15:20
  of that the say with streaming no we don't make any serious,
• 1:15:24
  can you Hear that drilling out there.
• 1:15:26
  Icon area told me. Okay, so yeah, whenever with
• 1:15:29
  streaming, you know, we don't make a ton of money off of it.
• 1:15:34
  It's fractions of a cent per play.
• 1:15:36
  Okay. So you know, I think in order to
• 1:15:40
  make real money off of streaming you have to have like millions
• 1:15:42
  of downloads and I'm never going to be in that spot.
• 1:15:45
  I don't think so. Maybe merchandise is the best of
• 1:15:48
  everything potentially. Yeah, we definitely made more
• 1:15:51
  money from shirts and stuff like that.
• 1:15:55
  When we have the live band, but I think it's harder to do that
• 1:15:59
  over. Like once the gigging is over,
• 1:16:01
  if you're not getting any more then, you know, there's like
• 1:16:05
  that in the moment feel when you're playing at a bar or
• 1:16:09
  Winery or something, you know, people been drinking and they're
• 1:16:11
  like, they want to come up and talk and they want to be
• 1:16:13
  friendly and I cannot buy a t-shirt or whatever you know
• 1:16:16
  that that connection doesn't exist when your body and you say
• 1:16:20
  that but maybe you should try your hand at online.
• 1:16:24
  I'm digging. That's a lot of musicians have
• 1:16:26
  been doing obviously because they've not been able to sort of
• 1:16:29
  perform in normal normal venues. And interesting thing I found is
• 1:16:33
  that a lot of them are treating it that that busking approach.
• 1:16:36
  I think it's kind of cool because you have that kind of
• 1:16:38
  like, livestream element where people can request.
• 1:16:41
  So obviously for the fan base, for Adams Wilson, you know,
• 1:16:44
  people can say, hey can you play this?
• 1:16:46
  And you could be like yeah and play it and there's that element
• 1:16:50
  and maybe that's way to make money and stuff in there.
• 1:16:54
  It's certainly worth it. I know time is obviously a
• 1:16:57
  tricky one, but the good thing about that is you can choose
• 1:16:59
  when you do it. Obviously with the gig it's
• 1:17:01
  always in the evening. You have to weigh not
• 1:17:04
  necessarily on last, you know, like there's good and bad to it
• 1:17:08
  but you know with streaming it's like you're in control.
• 1:17:13
  Yeah. And they get there.
• 1:17:14
  I'm not sure. You know I think I've toyed with
• 1:17:17
  that with different models of release you know like there's
• 1:17:21
  the one album called it the postcards project where we spent
• 1:17:25
  over a year writing and recording an album or song every
• 1:17:30
  month and we would make a video for the I would make a video for
• 1:17:35
  the Saint Augustine hope so. You know it was like every month
• 1:17:44
  putting out a new song and you know promoting it on social
• 1:17:46
  media and stuff like that. I was like, I feel like this is
• 1:17:48
  more connecting than just putting out an album once.
• 1:17:54
  Streaming and just seeing what happens, right?
• 1:17:57
  It was like, every month, it was a new time to engage with the
• 1:17:59
  fans and it was, you know, it was a fun experiment but it was
• 1:18:03
  also like super time intensive and you know, it's draining.
• 1:18:07
  So you know, I tend to prefer things more like that where it's
• 1:18:12
  it's ongoing creativity. You know, the performance side
• 1:18:15
  of it for whatever reason has just never really.
• 1:18:18
  I don't have that bug that some musicians have with, can't wait
• 1:18:23
  to play the live and I can't wait to get This in front of
• 1:18:24
  people I'm like rather just hand them an album right?
• 1:18:27
  Like I'd rather than listen to it in the room time when they're
• 1:18:30
  comfortable like when you're driving, I think I just get so
• 1:18:34
  nervous about I get caught up in my own head when I'm performing
• 1:18:39
  you know, I don't have that thing.
• 1:18:41
  I just watched a concert of Jeff Buckley from, you know, the 90s
• 1:18:47
  obviously. And I was amazed like, he seemed
• 1:18:51
  like he was lost, right? Yeah.
• 1:18:52
  Like he's caught up in it and You know, he's like being a
• 1:18:56
  little bit extemporaneous, like some of his riffs, it seemed
• 1:18:59
  like he was toying with them a little bit.
• 1:19:02
  You know, they're sort of jamming, and I was just like, I
• 1:19:04
  never got there. I never got to that place where
• 1:19:06
  I could just let go and maybe it, maybe it was an act.
• 1:19:09
  You know, maybe he was like, in his head thinking, like, well, I
• 1:19:11
  need to go to a 60 or, you know, he's like all the calculations
• 1:19:15
  were in the front of his mind and he just makes it appear as
• 1:19:18
  though he's lost in the music. But you know, I know I have
• 1:19:23
  known musicians. Who can, you know, they can
• 1:19:25
  drink or they can smoke up or whatever and they'll just get
• 1:19:28
  lost in the music and really let go.
• 1:19:31
  I was never able to do that and I think you know playing live on
• 1:19:36
  the internet would also I think bring me back to that his face
• 1:19:39
  so I don't know. I don't know if that's the right
• 1:19:41
  that play man. There are musicians that do.
• 1:19:44
  I think a gorilla's is a good example of that.
• 1:19:46
  You know, they have performed live but they have sort of said
• 1:19:49
  that it's like really expensive to set up the whole you know,
• 1:19:52
  animated thing and you know I think it's fair like I'm the
• 1:19:55
  same I prefer writing music to playing it like playing is fun
• 1:20:00
  but yeah I don't I have had those moments here and there
• 1:20:05
  where it's been like a really good vibe and I think I would
• 1:20:07
  still do it but I don't think I would do it to the extent that
• 1:20:10
  other people do it. I would do it.
• 1:20:11
  Like sparingly you know like here and there and I yeah I
• 1:20:15
  don't feel that Rush that other people feel but there is a rush
• 1:20:19
  from creating music and I guess it's just different.
• 1:20:22
  Isn't everyone has their different likes and dislikes.
• 1:20:24
  It's just feel like it's more reward.
• 1:20:26
  It's more tangible. It's more rewarding.
• 1:20:28
  When you you know you work on a song and at the end of it you
• 1:20:32
  have a thing and you can't hold it in your hands anymore but you
• 1:20:35
  can listen to it right? It's there it exists and it's a
• 1:20:39
  time capsule you get back on it and say like that's what I
• 1:20:42
  sounded like at the time. And like that's I remember
• 1:20:44
  working with Ryan and Dan and like you know we had that like
• 1:20:48
  back and forth you know when we were jamming in the basement or
• 1:20:50
  whatever when you're playing live It's once it's ephemeral,
• 1:20:56
  right? Like once you're done playing,
• 1:20:58
  it's over and you can have the memory out of it, but like so
• 1:21:02
  much of that memory is colored by your more modern experience,
• 1:21:06
  right? Like things that have happened
• 1:21:07
  since then. So it's like, I have you memory
• 1:21:11
  is a, I have a whole, we could go on for an hour, probably on
• 1:21:15
  my feelings on memory, but I think like, you know, memory and
• 1:21:17
  most cases is, like is misleading, right?
• 1:21:21
  Like like say, You know, say we had a show and I was really
• 1:21:26
  worried about, you know, the booking manager didn't get back
• 1:21:30
  to me until like the day before we didn't have a chance to
• 1:21:32
  promote it enough and like, you know, the person that I was
• 1:21:35
  really hoping, you know, to show up, didn't show up or, you know,
• 1:21:40
  and like my anxiety about that would color my memory.
• 1:21:45
  Like whereas a person in the audience is like I was a great
• 1:21:48
  show. Like, you seemed like you were
• 1:21:49
  really and I had this experience over and over and over again, I
• 1:21:53
  would be caught up in. Details of like, oh, that show
• 1:21:55
  in terrible because x y z and then I would talk to an audience
• 1:21:59
  member that, that was one of my favorite shows of yours.
• 1:22:02
  You seemed like you were so lost in the music.
• 1:22:03
  I'm like, that is a lie. Yeah, you were completely
• 1:22:06
  misled, but I mean, that's great, right?
• 1:22:08
  It's, it's everybody takes away from it their own version of it,
• 1:22:12
  but I feel like with an album, It's a record.
• 1:22:16
  It's cut in stone, you can't go back, you can't change it, it's
• 1:22:20
  there. I mean you have a different, you
• 1:22:22
  have a different approach to it over time.
• 1:22:24
  Time, right? Like, maybe new things that come
• 1:22:26
  into your experience and you see it differently?
• 1:22:28
  No. No.
• 1:22:30
  You know, you're onto something that I think you're right.
• 1:22:32
  Actually our feelings about certain memories change because
• 1:22:36
  our perception of life changes. So in that moment, it felt a
• 1:22:40
  certain way but we reflect on it differently later.
• 1:22:42
  But yeah, I suppose, if you remember, how something made you
• 1:22:45
  feel, which is generally, what humans?
• 1:22:47
  Do you forget what people say, and such I think that's kind of
• 1:22:52
  the element behind it, isn't it? Like, for instance, that when I
• 1:22:56
  think back to like, like an ex-girlfriend or something and
• 1:22:59
  I'm like, oh yeah, the good times is that.
• 1:23:01
  Yeah. But what about the bad times?
• 1:23:02
  Remember how that made you feel? And it's like, oh yeah, oh no,
• 1:23:06
  wasn't all like cuz it's that rose-tinted glasses effect as.
• 1:23:09
  Yeah, I mean, I've delved into this a little bit with like, you
• 1:23:13
  know, reading some papers or, you know, listening to podcasts
• 1:23:17
  or whatever and more and more. I've learned that the brain is
• 1:23:24
  Is a committee. It is not a single unified
• 1:23:28
  whole, right? That we imagine it as and so
• 1:23:31
  like when you recall a memory, it goes through your creative
• 1:23:35
  portion of your brain, it goes through your emotional state.
• 1:23:38
  It goes through your trauma state, right?
• 1:23:41
  And so, like, it colors the memory where you think?
• 1:23:45
  You know, like if your present experience is like right now,
• 1:23:47
  I'm going to fear State, I might remember a certain thing an
• 1:23:53
  event from the past in a negative way even though maybe
• 1:23:58
  two days ago when I was in a happy State, you know, I was
• 1:24:01
  drinking. I'm hanging out with my buddies
• 1:24:03
  and I'm like, yeah, I remember that time we did that thing and
• 1:24:05
  I'm like, it's in a positive light because I'm now in a
• 1:24:07
  positive light, we're like and I'm not a scientist, right?
• 1:24:11
  I'm just, I've just, I've done a little bit of reading and you
• 1:24:15
  No, I'm not claiming to be an authority on this, but it's
• 1:24:17
  just, it's been what I have discovered, has been accurate to
• 1:24:20
  my anecdotal experience. And I feel like, you know, this
• 1:24:23
  is so crucial in songwriting to write it affects like when you
• 1:24:28
  stop and think about how these things work, it factors into the
• 1:24:32
  way that you create. Because you're like, you know,
• 1:24:36
  you can channel that more by setting up the circumstances for
• 1:24:39
  it, right? Like I can put myself into a
• 1:24:41
  negative head space or maybe I could try and steer.
• 1:24:45
  The steered away from being quite.
• 1:24:47
  So - by trying to think about, you know, a time that I was
• 1:24:50
  happy, whatever, you know, there's different ways you can
• 1:24:53
  toy with it. And I think live music is just
• 1:24:57
  another example of that, where it's like, whatever head space
• 1:25:01
  during at the time versus the head space here and now that
• 1:25:03
  you're recalling. Yeah, totally agree.
• 1:25:06
  I'll add to that as well. Something that you touched on
• 1:25:09
  that. Like, another person's
• 1:25:11
  perception of the same memory is key in that Like I remember
• 1:25:15
  reminiscing with an old friend about something and they said,
• 1:25:18
  oh that's not quite how I remember it.
• 1:25:20
  And it's interesting, you know, because that obviously the
• 1:25:23
  perception of the memory is equally as important as the
• 1:25:26
  details. Because particularly like if we
• 1:25:29
  take like a, like a workplace scenario, where you see things
• 1:25:34
  that went down in a certain way and another person has a
• 1:25:36
  completely different understanding of the situation.
• 1:25:39
  And technically, you could argue both people's perceptions are
• 1:25:43
  correct because it's their own. Perception of that event.
• 1:25:46
  And, you know, it's not to say that it's wrong.
• 1:25:48
  But like, sometimes that can kind of stray away from the
• 1:25:53
  details that we often forget about the details, because we're
• 1:25:56
  so caught up in the emotion of the event and the feeling like
• 1:25:59
  you said, it's an interesting thing to think about, for sure.
• 1:26:03
  I mean, you know, this is come up a lot with with mental health
• 1:26:06
  because they talk about it, you know, I'm someone who struggled
• 1:26:08
  with depression for most of my life and, you know, they talk
• 1:26:12
  about when a Item of depression is that it colors, your life
• 1:26:18
  experiences and your memories and you begin to think.
• 1:26:21
  I've always felt this way. Hmm, even though objectively,
• 1:26:27
  you can come up with examples or proof that that is not true.
• 1:26:31
  Well, your brain. It's almost like a poison where
• 1:26:33
  it's like, once it's in there, it seeps into all of the other
• 1:26:37
  aspects of your brain and says, hey, you've always been a
• 1:26:40
  miserable asshole and that's never going to change, right?
• 1:26:43
  It affects your past, your present, and your future.
• 1:26:45
  Sure. And that for me at least has
• 1:26:48
  been so true. Like there are times when you
• 1:26:50
  know, you talk to loved one and they're like you weren't
• 1:26:54
  unhappy, then you were thrilled with life, you know, you were so
• 1:26:58
  happy about, you know, getting married or you know, about what
• 1:27:02
  the band was doing or this or that other thing and then your
• 1:27:05
  brain is like, no, no, we've always been miserable and we
• 1:27:07
  always will be. And so, the same thing happens
• 1:27:10
  with the audience, right? Where You know, so many examples
• 1:27:14
  I could point to where somebody is.
• 1:27:17
  Like, I thought this, you know, this song is about X thing,
• 1:27:21
  right, X, whatever. Imagine scenario in their head
• 1:27:25
  and they would come up to me and be like, you know, hey, this is
• 1:27:29
  what that songs about, right? I'm like that song.
• 1:27:31
  I made that up. It has nothing to do with that.
• 1:27:33
  Like they're like, this was from your life experience.
• 1:27:35
  When you were going through that breakup, right?
• 1:27:37
  Look, no, I'm totally pulled it out of thin.
• 1:27:40
  Air has no bearing on my real life.
• 1:27:42
  It's whatever, but to them, that's what it was about.
• 1:27:46
  And I'm like, that's, you know, art is relative right?
• 1:27:49
  Like what it means to me is not what it's going to mean to you
• 1:27:53
  and you take from it whatever you want.
• 1:27:56
  And that's, that's totally legit.
• 1:27:58
  That's what it's for. It's, you know, I once I put it
• 1:28:02
  out into the world, I've done what I can do with it and now
• 1:28:05
  it's up to the person who's viewing and listening to it to
• 1:28:11
  Define their own. Ants and I can't I have no
• 1:28:13
  control over that. I want to sometimes I really
• 1:28:16
  wish I could say. No, it's not, you know, the
• 1:28:19
  thing that you imagine it's about.
• 1:28:21
  But you know it's I have to kind of let go, right?
• 1:28:23
  There's a, there's a separation that happens once it exists in
• 1:28:29
  the world. It's now up to the audience to
• 1:28:31
  decide. So what are you doing for a
• 1:28:35
  living? Then like how are you?
• 1:28:37
  So keeping things going, I work for A literacy curriculum
• 1:28:44
  company. So, they make, yeah, there's
• 1:28:47
  nothing to do with music, but it does have a lot to do with
• 1:28:50
  creativity, right? Like so I manage a team of
• 1:28:52
  audio-visual, like people who make websites people make
• 1:28:55
  videos, okay? And, you know, like I'm sort of,
• 1:29:00
  you know, I'm like a manager of that team director, whatever you
• 1:29:03
  wanna call it, where, you know, they create stuff and I, you
• 1:29:08
  know, support them in that. And sometimes I get to jump in
• 1:29:10
  and help making actual thing when we're Over when we're busy.
• 1:29:13
  But for the most part, it's kind of a managerial role cuckoo
• 1:29:19
  cuckoo. If you had to sum up your music
• 1:29:24
  career with one sentence, what would it be?
• 1:29:30
  As you can see from our discussion so far, and not good
• 1:29:33
  at one-sentence answer. If I could sum up, maybe you can
• 1:29:38
  hear in one sentence. I'd say something along the
• 1:29:41
  lines of It's honest. And it's about the challenges
• 1:29:52
  that I have faced personally. and, It's heavy, you know?
• 1:30:00
  Like it's I've never been able to make light music and it's
• 1:30:03
  always going to be always going to be honest.
• 1:30:04
  It's always going to be heavy. And I don't mean heavy like, you
• 1:30:07
  know, guitars heavy. I mean, like it's going to be
• 1:30:10
  dark. It's gonna be moody, but it's
• 1:30:13
  going to be real. So the sentence not several
• 1:30:16
  paragraphs. Jeez, I'm sorry.
• 1:30:19
  That's right. I can't do it.
• 1:30:27
  What's the biggest life lesson you've learned so far?
• 1:30:34
  This I can do in one sentence. I think there's a quote be kind
• 1:30:38
  to everyone you meet for everyone is facing a great
• 1:30:41
  battle. And I'm butchering it probably,
• 1:30:45
  but that I might get a tattoo of that because it's so true,
• 1:30:52
  right? Like I have a, an internal
• 1:30:55
  battle. I have external battles.
• 1:30:56
  Like, I've been slogging through stuff, everyone, but everyone
• 1:31:00
  does. Everyone has that major conflict
• 1:31:02
  in their life and like people still managed to function
• 1:31:05
  despite that, and it's amazing to me like people go on,
• 1:31:10
  despite, you know, losing their loved.
• 1:31:13
  Is or you know, getting fired or you know their child hates them
• 1:31:18
  or whatever, you know. Like all these huge things that
• 1:31:21
  have devastated them or change the course of their life forever
• 1:31:25
  and they still managed to be human and that blows me away.
• 1:31:30
  It's inspiring. One thing I liked about as well.
• 1:31:33
  Is that like years ago? I used to be very selfish and
• 1:31:39
  sort of like angry at the world, you know.
• 1:31:41
  Like World everyone has this white I don't I have this or
• 1:31:44
  fuck everyone, fuck everything and certain things have happened
• 1:31:49
  throughout the years, difficult times difficult moments, seeing
• 1:31:55
  friends, die, stuff like that. I think that kind of begins to
• 1:31:59
  shape. Your perspective of things and
• 1:32:03
  makes you kind of think, you know what, this is actually,
• 1:32:06
  what's important in life. And when you start to gain that
• 1:32:10
  sense of perspective, that's kind of what I'm alluding to, I
• 1:32:14
  think that that just changes everything.
• 1:32:16
  And what I really want to add to what you were saying is that, if
• 1:32:21
  you have the capability to be nice to people, and sort of
• 1:32:26
  spread joy and kindness in the world, when your life is not
• 1:32:32
  kind of full of that in your life is hard and things aren't
• 1:32:36
  going your way. And so, So forth.
• 1:32:39
  Then you're beginning to get to that level where you need to be
• 1:32:42
  because people often talk about like the human spirit and I
• 1:32:47
  think a lot of people in the world are missing that they
• 1:32:50
  don't know what that means. And what it really means is
• 1:32:52
  like, you know, sometimes you watch those movies and like you
• 1:32:55
  know, it's giving you that smarmy message and like
• 1:32:59
  someone's there for someone else.
• 1:33:00
  But that's that's the reality. Like I think often in life.
• 1:33:04
  Life is like a movie and you see those surreal beautiful.
• 1:33:08
  Moments the birth of a child, someone helping a homeless
• 1:33:13
  person. Like I see a lot of stuff when I
• 1:33:17
  do my volunteer in work and I get that feeling afterwards.
• 1:33:22
  Like I sit back and I reflect on it and I'm like, wow.
• 1:33:25
  Like that was pretty as pretty moving, you know.
• 1:33:28
  And it's that stuff. It's an Indescribable but I
• 1:33:33
  think that you're right, if we can somehow just keep being
• 1:33:38
  nice. So the keep spreading that
• 1:33:39
  kindness. Then we're headed in the right
• 1:33:42
  direction. I think so.
• 1:33:43
  Yeah, I couldn't agree more with you absolutely.
• 1:33:48
  As we draw things to a close today.
• 1:33:51
  Do you have any sort of final thoughts that you'd like to
• 1:33:53
  share with us or maybe an upcoming project that you'd like
• 1:33:57
  to share with us? Just an update?
• 1:34:00
  I mean you know the music is the biggest thing for me right now.
• 1:34:04
  Yeah, the album parasite and host should be out in a couple
• 1:34:06
  months and like it's You know, it represents the input from me
• 1:34:11
  but also from Dan Ilion, Ryan Busby who know that you guys are
• 1:34:15
  just so critical and making it happen.
• 1:34:17
  And, you know, it's there's some weird Voodoo that happens when
• 1:34:25
  creative people get together. And, you know, a new thing is
• 1:34:28
  made, you know, I like I have a kid but I also feel like every
• 1:34:32
  album is a kid in its own way. Hmm.
• 1:34:34
  You know it's like it's a thing that was so you were so Focused
• 1:34:39
  on at the time for you know you spend years of your life trying
• 1:34:42
  to make this thing happen and then it does and I'm you know, I
• 1:34:46
  feel like some guy from the 1930s, I've got like 10 or 11
• 1:34:50
  kids out there right now. You know, and they're all off,
• 1:34:53
  living their own little life and they mean things to other people
• 1:34:55
  and yeah, you know. So I like I always, if I could
• 1:34:59
  ask anybody to go back and listen to other albums and stuff
• 1:35:01
  like that, I think that would be my other big thing is like,
• 1:35:04
  yeah, I'm working on this new thing, but I've also got, you
• 1:35:06
  know, a pretty Large back catalogue.
• 1:35:09
  That still means a lot to me. And I hope means something to
• 1:35:11
  other people. Absolutely.
• 1:35:13
  And I would, I would second that.
• 1:35:15
  I think you've got a fantastic back catalog.
• 1:35:18
  I was, I was really sort of surprised that it hasn't got
• 1:35:21
  more sort of recognition because this is genuinely good music.
• 1:35:23
  And I'm not just saying that because he's my guest like, I
• 1:35:26
  mean, it like this. I don't often, you know, add
• 1:35:30
  people as music to my Spotify unless it's like, I really like
• 1:35:33
  it. And I want to hear it regularly
• 1:35:35
  and when I heard Adams music, I was like, this is This is good
• 1:35:38
  stuff, you know. So yeah.
• 1:35:41
  Thank you. Not all right, man, I'm for
• 1:35:43
  everyone listening to the podcast that make sure you go
• 1:35:47
  and check out his music by if you can and support Adams,
• 1:35:52
  massive, thank you for appearing on the show.
• 1:35:54
  It's been an absolute pleasure getting to know you and then
• 1:35:57
  talking to you. So thank you Kristen.
• 1:35:59
  This has been a hugely entertaining for me.
• 1:36:01
  Thank you for having me. I really appreciate you making
• 1:36:03
  the time to do this and you know you seem like an awesome person.
• 1:36:06
  So as for Being Human likewise man, it's been a pleasure and to
• 1:36:11
  everyone listening to the Christian Reef podcast, whether
• 1:36:14
  you're listening on YouTube Spotify, Apple podcast Google
• 1:36:17
  podcast, let me know tweet at me, let me know where you're
• 1:36:19
  listening because it'd be good to know.
• 1:36:21
  And you guys I see you guys listening but I don't see you
• 1:36:24
  guys talking. So let me know.
• 1:36:26
  I want to know and as always if there's a particular topic or a
• 1:36:29
  particular guests that you would like to see on the show in the
• 1:36:31
  future, please let me know. My DMs are open.
• 1:36:34
  Thank you for listening. Peace out one laughs I'll see.
• 1:36:37
  See you in the next one.